October 1, 2025 • 52 mins
What keeps you trapped in patterns that don't serve you? Roy Wooten, Executive Director of The Crucible Project, reveals the startling reality facing modern Christian men: a crisis of isolation where three out of five men can't name five friends, and one in five can't name a single friend. This isolation creates the perfect breeding ground for struggles with identity, purpose, and destructive behaviors.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Grainger (00:03):
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast
serving Christian men who arehungry to be the leaders God
intends you to be.
I'm your host, chris Granger.
Let's jump in.
All right, fellas, this is yourmeat episode.
Let's get right into it, okay.
So the scripture of the weekthis week is out of the book of
Galatians, the sixth chapter,the second verse.
It says carry each other'sburdens, and in this way you
(00:24):
will fulfill the law of Christ.
Love that verse.
Guys.
If you missed the spiritualkickoff episode, just go back
one of your podcast feed and, asa reminder, we do the spiritual
kickoff Monday through Fridayat the Lion Within Us.
It's free.
It's our way to serve, to giveto others.
So head over to thelionwithinus, click on that daily spiritual
(00:44):
kickoff and get started today.
So this conversation is goingto be a going fellas.
We brought in Roy Wooten.
He is the executive director ofthe crucible project, so you
may have heard of this before.
So the crucible project is outthere, they're they're serving
in a very meaningful way, withwith encounters, with getaways,
with weekends, and Roy has awonderful background.
(01:13):
He was a pastor, he was aministry executive, he was a
coach, he was a counselor andreally all those experiences
preparing him for thisopportunity to serve in this
capacity.
He's speaking to thousands ofmen and women worldwide, so he's
a frequent speaker.
We talk about this a little bittoday on biblical manhood,
marriage, fatherhood.
(01:34):
He's written several books.
We unpacked this one that iscalled Unstuck, so we do talk
about that a little bit.
And just a great guy out ofTexas, a Texan, out there, we
talk a little bit about Texas.
Have some fun with that as well.
So hopefully you guys enjoythis conversation with Roy
Wooten.
All right, roy, welcome to theLine Within Us.
(01:58):
How are you doing today?
Roy Wooten (02:00):
Doing well.
I'm thankful for thisopportunity to be with you and
any chance I get to speak to menaround men's issues, I'm
excited to do that.
So very thankful for whatyou're doing, what God's doing
through you.
Chris Grainger (02:12):
Amen, brother, amen.
Well, looking forward to thisone for sure, and before we get
into the nuts and bolts and theheart of what we're hopefully
going to be talking about, sharesomething fun about you, maybe,
roy, that not many people knowabout.
Roy Wooten (02:28):
I always just like to start off a little bit light.
So what's a fun fact about Roy?
Well, one of the fun factsabout me is that I played
football in Texas, which is abig deal.
I loved baseball, but because Ihad some athletic ability, the
whole town pushed me intofootball.
Okay, and while I was playingfootball on that team, a guy
came and hung out with us andthe team after us and then wrote
(02:49):
a book called Friday NightLights.
They became the movie FridayNight Lights.
So that's a fun little factabout me.
Chris Grainger (02:56):
There you go.
That's pretty cool, that'sawesome.
So football on Friday night inTexas so you got to.
You got to experience thatfirsthand on Friday night in
Texas, so you got to experiencethat firsthand.
Roy Wooten (03:04):
Yeah, so back in the pre-concussion protocol days.
So you know I have some draindamage from it.
You know, every time I can'tremember a name or something.
You know, that's what I blameit on.
I love it, I love it.
Learned a lot about leadershipthrough playing high school
(03:26):
sports.
Chris Grainger (03:28):
Okay, Well, you definitely get a lot of life
lessons there, for sure.
Well, I know we got connectedon several of your projects that
you're working on primarily theCrucible Project and I just
wanted to kind of give you anopportunity to share the genesis
of that, what led to startingthat and how you guys go about
serving people out there.
Roy Wooten (03:50):
Sure.
Thanks, chris.
Well, greg Houston was alongtime pastor in the inner
cities Cleveland and thenChicago and he was struggling,
what he says, with things goingon in the basement of his life.
They were getting in the way ofhis relationship with God, with
his wife and with his daughters.
(04:12):
He's got daughters, he's a girldad and he went to Christian
counselors.
He went to all the men's stuffout there.
He went to a number ofdifferent, read every book that
he could trying to get at that,and one of the Christian
counselors sent him to a secularweekend that really opened him
(04:35):
up and he found what he saysgrace that he had never
experienced in the church onthat weekend he was so impressed
with the things that tied intothe Bible on the weekend he said
I want to bring this toChristian men all over the world
.
And so our founder started thefirst weekend in 2001.
(04:58):
And in 2005, we formed as aministry called the Crucible
Project and we've been runningever since.
So this year we'll do 60retreats in 16 locations in the
US and four other countries,three continents.
(05:18):
So God's blessed us and usingus.
And yeah, I was out in Houston,texas, running show bearer
counseling centers.
We had more than a couple ofdozen counselors in seven
locations in the greater Houstonarea wonderful ministry and my
(05:39):
brother-in-law called and saidyou know how Promise Keepers was
like a mile wide and an inchdeep.
He said the Crucible Project isthey're doing something really
unique for men and they're morelike a mile deep.
So they have these weekendsthat are really challenging and
you got to come check it out.
So I went to check it out andwhile I was there, it was
(06:04):
amazing how, within the firsthour or two of being on property
, god already started dealingwith me about some things that
happened a long time ago in mychildhood that I thought I'd
kind of taken care of.
It's behind me, I've dealt withit.
However, you want to say that,but what I experienced on the
(06:29):
weekend moved me from a place ofknowing that I'm saved and that
I'm going to heaven to reallybelieve in it in every cell in
my body and in my heart and inmy head.
In my body and in my heart andin my head and as a longtime
(06:51):
minister and pastor and leaderof Christian ministries, it was
a big aha for me.
It was wonderful, and I wassitting next to in the room with
some guys who are strugglingwith, you know, wanting to
achieve more in their life, withmen who were running in circles
around compulsive, you know,masturbation and pornography.
And men Christian men who were,you know, at church every
(07:17):
Sunday, even in leadership roles, but also had anger outbursts
that would scare their childrenand their families, their wives,
and these things were justpopping within them and it
didn't matter.
The thing that so impressed mewas it didn't matter why they
came or what they were reallychallenged with in their life.
(07:39):
They got some healing thathelped them walk out of there in
a different way.
And I told the founder that Iwas speaking of Greg Houston.
I had lunch with him on Sundayof the weekend and I said I want
every man in my life to get totaste what I tasted here.
(08:02):
It's incredible, how can I getall of the men in my life to do
this?
And within a short year or so,we began hosting these weekends
in Houston, texas.
So that's kind of how we movedand how we've grown.
It's amazing.
I think most people at that timein my life would have said
(08:25):
Roy's successful.
He has a wife that adores him,he has children that are
well-behaved and he's doing wellfor himself.
But about two weeks after theweekend my wife said I feel like
I got the husband that Imarried back.
So there was something thathappened on the weekend that had
(08:49):
, I know me, more connected withmy head and heart in such a way
that it was she was feeling it,she was sensing it and drawn to
me the way she was in our earlyyears of marriage.
I think I was about 20 years into marriage at that time.
So I've become an advocate andeventually volunteered for five
(09:15):
years amidst leading theministry I led there in Houston
and then eventually startedleading some of the weekends and
just before COVID felt calledto step into the role that they
were calling me to, to lead theministry and it's been a great
adventure through COVID and allof that and then to keep us
(09:39):
going and then to see how God'susing us.
And then to see how God's usingus we impacted close to a
thousand souls last year in.
These really go deep retreats.
Chris Grainger (09:52):
And you said they're weekend type retreats.
I'm assuming there'sdestination type areas that guys
are traveling to and do theyknow it?
Do they come as groups?
So is it individuals?
How does that typically work?
Roy Wooten (10:04):
Yeah, typically it's one person.
Whenever I went, I grabbed someguys that were around me in my
life and I said, hey, I'm goingto go do this.
It sounds challenging, do youwant to go?
And so I ended up with five ofmy friends on my weekend mostly
that it's individuals who comebecause it's a very important
(10:26):
process of taking a hard look atyourself right Beginning Friday
night when you arrive at 7 pmfor our weekend.
We have a series of experiencesmeant to help you look at how
your life is and what are thethings that you're putting in
(10:48):
the way between you and the manyou want to be, the man that
God's called you to be.
What are the things that youhave blocking you, that you've
put there, that you've allowedthrough your choices.
You've allowed Satan to putthere between you and God, and
you and your spouse, if you'remarried, you and your children,
(11:08):
if you're a parent, and justbetween you and the man that you
want to be.
So it's a heavy push down.
We believe in strong integrity,and integrity meaning that we
keep our word.
We make agreements that areclear and we always keep those
agreements.
We believe that the choices youmake have led to the life that
(11:33):
you are living in and aroundthat, that it's important to
find a place to stand and takeresponsibility for the life that
you're in, in other words, tostop blaming and complaining and
to move into a place of powerand responsibility, to actually
(11:55):
do something different, to makedifferent choices, so that you
can get the life that you reallywant.
And along the path we give menan opportunity to get real with
each other, to be authentic.
One of the things that I'm sadabout is how many men are living
(12:16):
in isolation.
It's a holy discontent of minethat three out of five men can't
name five or more friends andone out of five can't name a
single friend.
I mean, think about this, chrisyou go to the grocery store or
out to eat or to the lumberyardand you're looking around and
(12:38):
every fifth guy might not evenhave a friend in his life.
And I think it also happenswithin the church, where we have
these surface relationships.
We have these.
You know, we'll talk about theweather and we'll talk about
sports, we might say a prayerrequest about a health concern,
sometimes about something workrelated, but mainly we keep all
(13:00):
this real stuff hidden.
We don't say, yeah, I'm reallystruggling.
I don't know if I'm a goodfather.
You know, my son came home 12years old and smelled like pot
last week.
I just don't know what to do.
And you know, do I power up?
What do I do with him?
And so we go through lifeisolated, not really letting
people know what's going oninside of us.
(13:21):
And James 5.16 says to confessyour sins one to another for
healing, and the prayer of arighteous man availeth much.
So.
There is something powerfulabout confession that most
evangelical churches are leavingon the table for people.
And so we'll go through lifeshallow, disconnected, and we
(13:43):
might say we have a friend ortwo or five, but they're at a
distance.
And Satan tells us two liesthat we buy into.
You're the only one strugglingwith this, which is nonsense.
And number two, brother, ifyou're listening right now, this
is for you, that you, you haveto figure it out on your own,
(14:07):
that you've got to figure it outon your own.
And those two are lies right,yeah.
And so we really give, createopportunities through our series
of experiences, for men to getreal with each other about all
the things that's coming up forthem in the you know, as they've
taken a hard look at their lifeRight and, and, and so it's in
(14:29):
that, it's in that that God isusing us powerfully.
Chris Grainger (14:35):
That is really cool.
So on the experience level, I'mjust super curious Are some of
these physical type ofactivities that will push you to
some degree?
I'm sure it's not like a bootcamp where you're just actually
doing pushups in the mud andthings like that, but there's
probably, with guys there,there's an element of we got to
(14:55):
do some hard things here.
Roy Wooten (14:57):
Yes, so we do.
We do believe that just sittingaround listening to more
information is not the solution.
So there is some physicality toour weekend and there's one
exercise that is, or you know,one process that has some
physical challenge.
But the rest of the weekend isreally not that physically
(15:21):
challenged because we're reallyworking on between the ears and
between the head and heart and,instead of taking notes and
learning more, we're actuallygiving you a process so that you
can think through and feel intowhatever's going on in your
life, so that you can dosomething different about it.
(15:43):
So the amount of awareness thatwe have as humans, doing this
heart surgery that Ezekiel talksabout, and to really get clean,
to really be open and clean, tostep into fully the hard work
(16:06):
of maturing in my faith eventhough I might have been a
disciple for a long time, Imight have been saved in our
teens or as a child or somewherealong the way maybe the same
guy, just a little older than Iwas back then as far as my faith
development.
We are getting at those hardthings on our weekend and our
(16:29):
analogy is Jacob's story, so ifwe've got a couple of minutes
here, I'll try to unpack it.
Yeah, so Jacob's story is thathe was born into a home where,
you know, he was a twin and hisdad loved his brother more than
him.
Scripture says.
In fact, his brother was kindof burly, the masculine male.
(16:55):
He was out, you know, hunting,and Jacob was in the tents with
his mom and I can just imaginethe scripture doesn't say it,
but that there were some thingsgoing on in his head around.
Am I a man?
Am I good enough?
My dad loves him more.
Am I even lovable, etc.
(17:16):
And with his mom's connivinghelp, he manipulates his brother
out of his birthright, hisfather out of his blessing, and
flees with Esau telling him I'mgoing to kill you the next time
I see you.
That's right, right.
He goes and tries to start allover.
Now there's a lot of men whohave done that.
They're just like I messed upin this first marriage.
(17:38):
I've messed up in this thing.
I'm going to move to adifferent place.
I'm going to start all over.
I'm going to start all over.
I'm going to start a new job.
I'm going to start a new career.
I'm going to get a new family.
And this is what Jacob does.
He goes and works for hisfather-in-law's business.
Laban and him and hisbrother-in-laws are running this
business and over time hestarts becoming again a bit
(18:01):
manipulative and hisbrother-in-laws find out and
Jacob goes oh no, we've got toget.
And he runs again.
He's running and hiding the waythat so many men do, and it
takes them two or three days forLaban and the crew to start
chasing them.
He takes everything that he has, all his employees that he can,
all of all of his assets, andhe's run and his family.
(18:23):
And and he's run and his family, and he finds himself.
He hears Jacob's coming with 600men and he finds himself on the
brook of the Jabbok, betweenthe decisions that he made a
long time ago and the choicesthat he made most recently and
the consequences of those.
And there God meets him andwrestles with him and in the
(18:45):
wrestling he says who are you?
And he said my name is Jacob.
He admits that he's a conniver,deceiver, manipulator.
He owns his name given at birthand through the wrestling he
fights until God blesses him andin the blessing he's given a
new name, a name of Israel.
(19:07):
That from that moment on, hewalked out of that with a
different walk.
He was limping.
He walked out of that with adifferent walk and in such a way
that Jacob didn't kill him butblessed him, and now a whole
nation is named after him.
Right, his people, people inhis heritage, his ancestral
relatives, still call themselvesIsraelites sometimes.
(19:30):
So this is a powerful exampleof what God can do with us.
When we get real with him, westop hiding, we own stuff with
him and we dive into the hardwork to fight for the blessing.
Chris Grainger (19:51):
Amen.
Love the story of Jacob as well.
That's a great, greatconnection there.
Guys, we're going to take ourfirst break.
We'll come right back with Roy.
I've got something big to share.
We're making a major shiftbecause we know the battle is
real and it's time more men hadaccess to the support they need.
For too long, guys have beentrying to carry the weight alone
(20:13):
pressure at work, tension athome, wounds from the past in a
world that demands strength butoffers no place to rest.
We see it, we've lived it, andthat's exactly why we built our
community.
It's a stronghold, a placewhere warriors can find rest,
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And starting now, we're makingit easier than ever to step in.
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We've lowered the barrier tojust $15.99 a month.
That means, for less than thecost of a drive-thru lunch, you
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(20:55):
Every man needs a stronghold andyou don't have to fight alone.
If you've been waiting for theright time to jump in, this is
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Go to thelionwithinus and jointhe community and see for
yourself what happens when irontruly sharpens iron.
Well, I know part of whatyou're doing as well.
(21:15):
What we're hopeful to touch ontoday, outside the crucible
project, is this brand new bookyou have unstuck and and I
really would hope that you giveit just a breakdown of what led
you to to putting that together.
It looks like a great resource,particularly for fathers out
there thank you so much.
Roy Wooten (21:32):
Yeah, um yeah, I produce a weekly devotional we
call it Compass Resources and Iwas just taking the things that
were most, you know, mostshowing up in the men that we
were working on and writingarticles to address those and
(21:53):
within a short period of timeover six months or so Unstuck
started to kind of reveal itselfout of it, this idea that most
of what is keeping us in thesame place in our lives not
having the discussion with ourboss around our career, not
(22:17):
stepping away from corporateAmerica to launch the thing we
feel like God's calling us tolaunch in our business, not
having the marriage that we wantbecause we won't have the hard
conversations with our wivesMost of what's in the way is
because we're stuck and it'sbased in fear.
There's fear that if I act andI do whatever it is that I feel
(22:41):
like I want to do I really wantin my heart, but I'm scared to
do that something bad is goingto happen.
And not only is something badgoing to happen, but the things
that I've been doing.
Instead of doing the thing thatI'm afraid of, I'm actually
getting something out of thosethings, and so I would have to
(23:04):
give up something in order to go.
So fear is in the way and thenalso I have a pull away from it
and in the middle of being stuck, we can get familiar with the
stuckness so that it becomes ournew norm.
Right, it's comfortable for usand we can live in this space
and we don't like it.
(23:25):
It's not where we want to be,but it's our normal.
And there are a lot of guys whoare stuck in their lives in a
number of different areas oftheir life.
It might be a pattern ofbehavior that you don't want to
do, but you find yourself, youcontinue to do.
It might be some aspirationalthing that you just have never
(23:50):
taken the step to do.
I remember when I wrote myfirst book, you know, 15 years
ago, that big fear of launchingand going and doing and pushing
the button to send it out.
You know, moving through thefear Look, begin unstuck takes
finding your courage, whichmeans there's not it doesn't
(24:12):
mean there's no fear.
You got to find the lion within, right, so that you can face
the fear and go through it andgo ahead and take the action
anyway, and really God, over andover in scripture, blesses
action.
It's when we, it's not when wemade the decision.
It's whenever we get intoaction on it that all of a
(24:33):
sudden the blessings come Right.
And I, you know I have a storyin my head that somewhere along
the way, chris, you felt thecalling to launch this podcast
right, and you had to getthrough some of your own blocks
to actually go and do it.
Like there's got to be somebodyelse better than me to do this.
Or you know, I'm like Moses, Idon't speak very well, and you
(24:56):
know all of these excuses, andso the book is about getting at
that, and you can't get off ofit unless you really do some
investigation in identity.
So many men live with you knowall of the lies from Satan that
he just kind of whispered in amoment in their life You're not
(25:17):
good enough, you don't have whatit takes, you're not lovable,
you're not worthy, you're not areal man, you're defective,
you're broken, etc.
But Scripture is very differentabout what they say about us,
and maturing in your faith iscontinuing to move from the lies
that run in your head, thatkeep you from being all that
(25:40):
God's called you to be, to notonly discovering but also
believing and living out of thethings that God says is true
about you.
Like you are valuable, you areworthy.
I take delight in you, he saysin the psalm.
And so getting that identity isa core thing.
(26:02):
And so much of our identityproblems are tied to our wounds.
Chris, back in our childhood,our teen years, where something
big or something small happened,where Satan first whispered
that that lie, that you're notgood enough or whatever.
And the way God made our brainsis, you know, to look for
(26:28):
things that might be risky to us, things that might be dangerous
to us.
God built us that way.
Fear is God-given, is what I'msaying.
Fear in and of itself isGod-given.
Living in a spirit of fear isnot.
Paul tells Timothy I didn't giveyou a spirit of fear, I gave
you a spirit of power.
(26:49):
And so you know, a little boygoes through life, has some
wounds along the way, decidesthat he's not good enough, and
then he starts looking forevidence that that's true, is
this true about me?
And he can easily find it.
Satan shows up with it and bythe time he's 20, he already
(27:10):
believes that that's true abouthim and living unaware of how
that belief that he's livingwith was getting in the way of
him, you know and impactingeverything, that he's doing
everything, and we believe that,in order to get at that
identity, you've got to go backinto the pain, back into the
(27:40):
pain, and when you get a chanceto go in a safe environment, in
a safe container of other menwho are also doing it right, so
you're not alone, oh my goodness, the healing that happens is
powerful.
It is so powerful and able towalk out, like Jacob did, with a
new identity of sorts, a truthfrom God, that is from scripture
(28:01):
, that is also in your heart,that you can live out now.
Chris Grainger (28:06):
Amen.
I am really curious for you,though, all the different guys
that you've worked with from I'mthinking generationals, from
millennials, Gen Z, Gen X, evenboomers, and taking this concept
of unstuck, are there anycommon threads that you see from
(28:28):
generation to generation?
And then, what are some of thenewer nuanced things that maybe
millennials have faced that noother generation that you have
seen as much, or Gen X, orwhatever it may be?
I'm just curious what are thecommonalities and what are the
nuanced things for thosespecific genres and collection
(28:49):
of men that you've worked with?
Roy Wooten (28:51):
Yeah, so we are finding the younger, like under
30 or number one, more open togetting away from their devices,
which is strange.
Like there's that thatmillennials actually have like
fear to give up you know theirdevices and get, you know, get
it get in a space where they'redisconnected electronically
(29:13):
virtually for a long period oftime.
And and a Gen Xers a littleless so, but still because now
they're running their businesseson their phones right Now
they're running their businesseswherever they are and so
they're afraid to likedisconnect for a whole weekend
and get real with other men.
(29:35):
But these, you know, Gen Z,these younger ones under 30,
under 27, they're they are like,oh, I'd like to take a break
from technology and they'velived on it their whole life and
it's like they're not afraid tobe away from it and to connect
with real people.
(29:55):
So I find that interesting.
The other thing that'sinteresting is the, you know,
boomers are and we have fewerand fewer coming.
You know we've got some thatcome in their 70s, but they're
aging more and more.
They've lived their whole lifewith more secrecy.
For the most part, they'velived their whole life with more
(30:16):
secrecy.
For the most part, they'velived their whole life with more
secrecy.
And so the thing.
You know, I remember a churchleader I think it was a deacon
at his church.
He just refused to do anything,almost anything that they asked
him to do Certainly never teachor say a prayer in public or
(30:36):
whatever.
And he came on the weekend andwhenever it came time for him to
kind of wrestle with God aroundhis stuff, he told a story
about being, I think he was 10.
And he used to go like with aquarter to watch the movie on
Sunday the matinee and some ofthe other boys older boys, boys
(30:59):
in the balcony and they calledhim up and he thought it was
cool to get to be with them andthen they sexually abused him.
He had never told that story.
He's in his 70s, never told thatstory, and he had been living
out of a shameful place that notonly God could never forgive
(31:19):
him, which is just a lie.
There's nothing that you'veever done or has ever been done
to you that God doesn't forgiveyou for.
And so he went through thatexperience.
But also, living out of theshame, he just felt unworthy
around all the other people.
He thought he was the only oneand that he had to figure it out
(31:40):
on his own.
This man walked out of thereand started giving testimonials
in public at church.
His church leadership movedconsiderably because he got
healing around that incident inhis life that Satan used
powerfully to keep him out ofthe leadership in the church and
(32:04):
leadership in general.
So, from the young to the old,the series of exercises seem to
be working on whatever issuethat they bring, and we've
worked with service, activeservice and veterans.
We've worked with people who'vebeen through big T traumas, you
(32:25):
know, and and small, you know.
Chris Grainger (32:29):
Seriously.
I mean the, the tax on marriage.
It seems like it's just it's atan all-time high right now.
So in your events, are youseeing some commonalities there?
Obviously, pornography, you'vealready mentioned that earlier.
But what are you seeing and howare you seeing some of these
(32:49):
guys move past towards healingin those areas, because I'm sure
we're the evil ones trying tosteal, kill and destroy every
one of our marriages out here.
So I'm just curious from yourexpertise and your experiences,
what's the feedback from thefield?
Roy Wooten (33:04):
Yeah, if I'm living in a place of identity challenge
around those lies that Satan'sgiven me and I feel like I'm the
only one and I've got to figureit out on my own, then I'm
living alone and isolated somuch so that I'm easier to be
taken out with things.
(33:24):
You know the ways that men numbthemselves from the pain, the
ways that men run and hide theway Jacob did, and pornography
is one.
You know affairs and buying sex, but also like being so much
into individual sports thatthey're like isolated from their
(33:48):
family.
Working workaholism, likeworking all the time just to
stay away from the conflict inthe home, like working all the
time just to stay away from theconflict in the home.
You know there are a lot ofthings that are behaviors that
get in the way, and I think partof the reason why we feel like
(34:09):
we've got to figure it out onour own is the way that we are
acculturated today as boys.
So as boys, I don't know if youexperienced this, chris, but
somewhere along the way somebodysaid boy, don don't know if you
experienced this, chris, butsomewhere along the way somebody
said boy, don't you cry whenyou let a tear out, you maybe
showed some fear in the gymclass or the other boys made fun
of you.
So you decided any show ofweakness or any way that I
(34:31):
actually express my emotionsI've got to be, not ever do so.
We stuff them and we hide them,et cetera.
And what's breaking thathappens through the weekend is
that men find that they canactually trust and be real and
(34:52):
authentic with other men so thatthey can not try to get their
strength from women, but throughthe sharpening each other in
their connections with men andsmall groups and small meetups
they are able to carry strengthinto their relationship so that
(35:17):
they're not coming to their wifewith neediness but coming to
their wife with strength.
Chris Grainger (35:28):
That's great, that is wonderful.
Well, I mean, as we I've workedwith groups like this in the
past as well Sometimes a bighurdle that guys have is
actually being vulnerable.
So how do you get them pastthat to where they can just be?
You've already mentioned theword authentic, which I love,
(35:49):
but that vulnerability is a bigpiece as well.
When you throw those two wordsout to some guys, they're going
to turn 180 and go the otherdirection.
So how do you encourage them tojust not don't do that about
face and to start leaning in it?
Roy Wooten (36:05):
is scary.
To take the thing that I reallybelieve is true about me that
if I shared it with anyone, ifanyone knew it, then they would
abandon me, reject me, kick meout, et cetera Then to step
forward in courage and to ownthat in front of another.
(36:27):
That's a very scary thing.
And James says there's healingin that right, james 5.16,.
There's healing in that right,james 5.16, there's healing when
you confess, when you confessto one another not only the sins
that you've done, but also thesins that have been done to you.
So I really believe that thereason that we get men there so
(36:50):
fast is because we have.
You know, this is an event.
This is not an event where youhave a speaker or a speaker or
two who are giving out knowledgeand, you know, sometimes even
setting themselves up to be, youknow, be like me kind of.
You know, I've got it alltogether.
This is not a weekend like that.
This is a weekend wheresomewhere around 20, 25
(37:14):
different teachers will teachand they're all men who have
gone through our weekend andthey've gone through the hard
parts themselves and now they'recoming back to help other men
kind of get through.
They're fighting for the heartsof the men that are coming
through.
And so we do it by example,like the teacher isn't saying do
(37:38):
it like me as far as, like I'vegot it all together.
They're saying I also havestuff in my life and here's what
I got going on.
That kind of authenticity, theresearch on shame says breeds
authenticity.
In other words, when someonegoes first, vulnerability
actually is magnetic and drawspeople to you and gives
(38:04):
permission for other men to bereal themselves.
So we have a sign that doesn'tsound very Christian, but we
have a sign at our retreat thatsays it's just got two letters B
and the letter S and it's got abig no cross through it.
And we're just like be real,come on, be real.
(38:29):
Jesus lived in such a way thatwas authentic and real.
Right, he walked around withthe men in his life and those
that followed him and talkedabout all kinds of things in
life, like, hey, guys, you know,I know you want to be first and
second and third, but you knowthe first will be last.
(38:49):
He was challenging to them.
He wasn't like a passive leader.
He wasn't a Christian.
Good boy, nice boy.
He wouldn't have been crucifiedif he was, because they
crucified people who weredangerous.
So Jesus really stepped into thecourage in his life.
He stood between a mob who wasgoing to, between a mob who was
(39:19):
going to throw rocks and kill awoman who had been caught doing
something wrong, committingadultery.
He stood between them and put abarrier there.
He stepped in to cleanse andturn tables at the temple, not
out of like I'm angry and I pop,but he fashioned a whip.
It says so that had to takesome time.
He did it methodically and noone got hurt.
(39:40):
We don't have any record thatanyone got hurt in that.
We heard some businesses, butpeople and, and over and over
again he does the hard thing.
He has real conversations withthose around him.
He tells Peter, someone hereally loves look, it's going to
get tough and you're going tosay you don't even know who I am
(40:01):
.
He tells him that he doesn'thide back from that fact.
He tells him that.
But then he does thisincredible restoration of him on
the other side of hisresurrection, where he sits with
his buddy and he says look, doyou love me?
Do you know me?
Can we restore this?
(40:22):
He does the hard things overand over again.
That is a man of courage, not aman of acquiescing to the world,
that is, a man of assertiveness, not a man who's passive in his
world and he's not all bowed upwith muscles and tats and with
(40:42):
a big truck and trying to showand prove I'm masculine.
He is masculine in a way thatshows courage but also is safe
for all the women around him.
Women felt safe around him tocome with him, to be in him and
follow him and to be thedisciples of his and children
(41:07):
were drawn to him.
He was a man that children weredrawn to, just as he went about
life.
So when we look at Jesus, wecan see some ways that we should
be as men.
Chris Grainger (41:18):
Yes, amen to that, amen to that.
Well, this has been phenomenal.
Roy, if you wouldn't mind, we'dlove to play a lightning round
with you towards the end andjust to kind of get to know you
a little bit more, and so we'lldive right into that.
Roy Wooten (41:33):
Well, let me make sure people know they can get a
free copy of my book and get adaily devotional the devotional
you know that I told you I writecalled Compass Resources.
At our website it's calledthecrucibleprojectorg and they
go down there and give us theirname and email address and I'll
(41:53):
be in their inbox every week andthey'll get a free copy of the
book.
Chris Grainger (41:57):
That's awesome.
Now, was that a daily,devotional or weekly?
I can't remember what you said.
Roy Wooten (42:01):
I'm sorry, weekly yes.
Chris Grainger (42:02):
Weekly.
Okay, all right, so we'll makesure that links in the show
notes for you guys.
So we'll jump right into thelightning round, roy.
Roy Wooten (42:20):
So what's something that you enjoy doing for fun?
You got any hobbies that youthat you that you enjoy For
forever, like being in nature,hiking, fishing has been my
thing, but two years ago Godblessed us with a grandson and
he's my number one favoritething to do.
Like just to be with him, playwith him, you know, get him out
in the world and have some ofhis first, the first time he
ever fished, the first time hehad an ice cream cone.
You know I was teaching him howto roll up and down the windows
.
I'm sure my daughter and herhusband are going to be really
(42:41):
frustrated about that, you know,in a vehicle, but it is such a
joy to have a grand, agrandchild.
Chris Grainger (42:49):
Amen to that Amen.
It sounds like he's close by aswell.
Roy Wooten (42:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Grainger (42:54):
Yeah, you get this.
He's going to be a spoiledlittle dude.
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Now you're in Texas, so what's?
What's your go-to food?
Roy Wooten (43:03):
Oh man, tacos and enchiladas.
You know it's got to be Tex-Mex.
I like a good steak and allthat, but you know I have a.
I built this body by eatingtacos and enchiladas.
Right, and the problem is Ithink I have a taco addiction
and there's a dealer on everycorner here in San Antonio, so
(43:24):
they are so good and they'reeverywhere and, yeah, I've got
to pace myself and how many Ieat and how frequently I eat
them.
Chris Grainger (43:38):
What's a myth about Texas that you want to
debunk?
I mean, since you are out ofTexas, a lot of people have
these thoughts about Texas.
What's something that you liketo debunk here?
Roy Wooten (43:50):
Oh, so that's a scary question.
You know I was in Australia.
We do weekends in Australia,both the East and West coast,
and usually people when theymeet me if they're the first
time they've ever met a Tex theywonder if we have horses.
Everybody has horses.
How many times I've been shotat, you know?
They wonder about gun violence.
They wonder you know stuff likethat.
(44:12):
Well, I don't feel unsafeanywhere I go here.
I feel safe in Texas and thereare ranchers and cattle and
horses, but the majority ofpeople living in Texas don't
have anything to do with thoseindustries.
The other thing I would say iswe are similar to most states
(44:34):
where the urban centers lean onedirection and the rural Texas
leans another.
So that's pretty common.
But there's this like real, youknow, individualist, we can do
it, we're going to figure it out, you know.
And pride in the state of Texasfor Texans, and I wish
(44:56):
Americans loved America as muchas Texans love Texas.
Chris Grainger (45:00):
Amen to that, amen.
Well, let's do a fun one.
So superpowers there's allthese superhero movies and
things out there.
Royce, if you could have asuperpower, which one would you
choose and how would you use it?
Roy Wooten (45:13):
Hmm, Wow, you know I mean what, what?
What went first in my mind too,was those tacos.
Like if I could eat all thetacos I wanted and lose weight,
that would be it.
You know, that's a billiondollar, that's a billion dollar
product, right there.
You know, I don't know.
(45:35):
I think I think if I could bein service and in mission and
and still always be with family,that would be the best.
I travel a bit for my job, ofcourse, and I love family.
I love my son and daughter andgrandson and all of my in-laws
and my wife, yeah, so it's justa blessing.
(45:58):
I think if I could do that,that would be what I would do.
Chris Grainger (46:03):
Love it, Love it .
What do you think about God Roy?
What is your favorite thingabout him?
Roy Wooten (46:10):
Love it, love it.
What do you think about God,roy?
What is your favorite thingabout him?
He knows me and everythingabout me, and even things that I
might not even fully know aboutmyself, and he still loves me
and I bring him pleasure.
The psalmist says so that blowsme away.
The love that he has, not justfor me but for everyone, that he
(46:39):
pursues us, that he is after us, that he wants to be in
relationship with us.
And he wrote the book not as abook of rules, but kind of like
the owner's manual of this iswhat's helpful and good for you.
Right, do it this way and lifewill be good for you.
And if you don't, it'll be hardfor life to be good for you.
And so to think about a Godwho's just pursuing me at that
(46:59):
pace and that he loves peoplethat I even have trouble loving,
and that he loves people that Ieven have trouble loving, it
just blows me away.
Love it.
Chris Grainger (47:12):
Love it.
Let's flip it 180, Roy.
Roy Wooten (47:18):
What's your least favorite thing about the evil
one?
How he can take truth even froma pulpit and just twist it just
a little bit.
A pulpit, and just twist itjust a little bit.
That allows predators to hurtpeople who are new in their
faith, like the number ofpastors who are blowing up their
(47:42):
ministries with moral failingsbreaks my heart and there's a
part of me that's like ifCrucible could have just got to
them.
You know, a year earlier, sixmonths earlier, we could have
prevented this.
And then we see so many whocome through our weekends who
(48:03):
have church wounds or pastorwounds from things that are just
horrible, horrible to mention.
You know that they've livedthrough.
Yeah, and I believe Satan's atwork with isolating pastors and
making them feel like, you know,they don't need any
accountability or they don'tneed other men in their lives,
(48:28):
and so that he can take them outand in doing so, sometimes
taking out some really innocentpeople along the way.
Chris Grainger (48:36):
Yeah, 100%.
Well, roy, this has been great.
The last question for you iswhat do you hope that the
listeners remember the most fromour conversation today?
Roy Wooten (48:44):
Yeah, get unstuck, man.
The thing that you're afraid todo to be all that God's called
you to be.
Just take action, garner yourcourage and move in the
direction, even though you'reafraid.
Move in that direction and justwatch.
God bless you as you go.
Chris Grainger (49:07):
Amen, Amen.
One more time.
Point them to your URL.
Where do you want to send them?
To connect with you and thewonderful things you're doing?
Roy Wooten (49:13):
Yes, thecrucibleprojectorg, we're
also on all the social mediachannels, so but,
thecrucibleprojectorg, go downand fill out the form for
Compass and we'll send you acopy of my book for free.
Chris Grainger (49:27):
Awesome, awesome , roy, thank you so much.
It's been an honor to have youon sir.
Roy Wooten (49:32):
You bet.
God bless you, Chris.
Chris Grainger (49:36):
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All right, fellas, I told youthat was going to be a good one.
(50:21):
So I'm so thankful for Roy forjoining us.
Just a good time, just tounpack, just to hear his heart
and how he's really out thereserving in a meaningful way.
The question of the week thisweek is who helps carry your
burdens when life feelsoverwhelming?
Let's just be real Life canfeel overwhelming.
Quite often you got to havesome people in your corner that
(50:42):
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(51:47):
Guys, have a great day and justkeep on leashing the lion
within.
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast
serving Christian men who arehungry to be the leaders God
intends you to be.
I'm your host, chris Granger.
Let's jump in.
All right, fellas, this is yourmeat episode.
Let's get right into it, okay.
So the scripture of the weekthis week is out of the book of
Galatians, the sixth chapter,the second verse.
It says carry each other'sburdens, and in this way you
(00:24):
will fulfill the law of Christ.
Love that verse.
Guys.
If you missed the spiritualkickoff episode, just go back
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kickoff Monday through Fridayat the Lion Within Us.
It's free.
It's our way to serve, to giveto others.
So head over to thelionwithinus, click on that daily spiritual
(00:44):
kickoff and get started today.
So this conversation is goingto be a going fellas.
We brought in Roy Wooten.
He is the executive director ofthe crucible project, so you
may have heard of this before.
So the crucible project is outthere, they're they're serving
in a very meaningful way, withwith encounters, with getaways,
with weekends, and Roy has awonderful background.
(01:13):
He was a pastor, he was aministry executive, he was a
coach, he was a counselor andreally all those experiences
preparing him for thisopportunity to serve in this
capacity.
He's speaking to thousands ofmen and women worldwide, so he's
a frequent speaker.
We talk about this a little bittoday on biblical manhood,
marriage, fatherhood.
(01:34):
He's written several books.
We unpacked this one that iscalled Unstuck, so we do talk
about that a little bit.
And just a great guy out ofTexas, a Texan, out there, we
talk a little bit about Texas.
Have some fun with that as well.
So hopefully you guys enjoythis conversation with Roy
Wooten.
All right, roy, welcome to theLine Within Us.
(01:58):
How are you doing today?
Roy Wooten (02:00):
Doing well.
I'm thankful for thisopportunity to be with you and
any chance I get to speak to menaround men's issues, I'm
excited to do that.
So very thankful for whatyou're doing, what God's doing
through you.
Chris Grainger (02:12):
Amen, brother, amen.
Well, looking forward to thisone for sure, and before we get
into the nuts and bolts and theheart of what we're hopefully
going to be talking about, sharesomething fun about you, maybe,
roy, that not many people knowabout.
Roy Wooten (02:28):
I always just like to start off a little bit light.
So what's a fun fact about Roy?
Well, one of the fun factsabout me is that I played
football in Texas, which is abig deal.
I loved baseball, but because Ihad some athletic ability, the
whole town pushed me intofootball.
Okay, and while I was playingfootball on that team, a guy
came and hung out with us andthe team after us and then wrote
(02:49):
a book called Friday NightLights.
They became the movie FridayNight Lights.
So that's a fun little factabout me.
Chris Grainger (02:56):
There you go.
That's pretty cool, that'sawesome.
So football on Friday night inTexas so you got to.
You got to experience thatfirsthand on Friday night in
Texas, so you got to experiencethat firsthand.
Roy Wooten (03:04):
Yeah, so back in the pre-concussion protocol days.
So you know I have some draindamage from it.
You know, every time I can'tremember a name or something.
You know, that's what I blameit on.
I love it, I love it.
Learned a lot about leadershipthrough playing high school
(03:26):
sports.
Chris Grainger (03:28):
Okay, Well, you definitely get a lot of life
lessons there, for sure.
Well, I know we got connectedon several of your projects that
you're working on primarily theCrucible Project and I just
wanted to kind of give you anopportunity to share the genesis
of that, what led to startingthat and how you guys go about
serving people out there.
Roy Wooten (03:50):
Sure.
Thanks, chris.
Well, greg Houston was alongtime pastor in the inner
cities Cleveland and thenChicago and he was struggling,
what he says, with things goingon in the basement of his life.
They were getting in the way ofhis relationship with God, with
his wife and with his daughters.
(04:12):
He's got daughters, he's a girldad and he went to Christian
counselors.
He went to all the men's stuffout there.
He went to a number ofdifferent, read every book that
he could trying to get at that,and one of the Christian
counselors sent him to a secularweekend that really opened him
(04:35):
up and he found what he saysgrace that he had never
experienced in the church onthat weekend he was so impressed
with the things that tied intothe Bible on the weekend he said
I want to bring this toChristian men all over the world
.
And so our founder started thefirst weekend in 2001.
(04:58):
And in 2005, we formed as aministry called the Crucible
Project and we've been runningever since.
So this year we'll do 60retreats in 16 locations in the
US and four other countries,three continents.
(05:18):
So God's blessed us and usingus.
And yeah, I was out in Houston,texas, running show bearer
counseling centers.
We had more than a couple ofdozen counselors in seven
locations in the greater Houstonarea wonderful ministry and my
(05:39):
brother-in-law called and saidyou know how Promise Keepers was
like a mile wide and an inchdeep.
He said the Crucible Project isthey're doing something really
unique for men and they're morelike a mile deep.
So they have these weekendsthat are really challenging and
you got to come check it out.
So I went to check it out andwhile I was there, it was
(06:04):
amazing how, within the firsthour or two of being on property
, god already started dealingwith me about some things that
happened a long time ago in mychildhood that I thought I'd
kind of taken care of.
It's behind me, I've dealt withit.
However, you want to say that,but what I experienced on the
(06:29):
weekend moved me from a place ofknowing that I'm saved and that
I'm going to heaven to reallybelieve in it in every cell in
my body and in my heart and inmy head.
In my body and in my heart andin my head and as a longtime
(06:51):
minister and pastor and leaderof Christian ministries, it was
a big aha for me.
It was wonderful, and I wassitting next to in the room with
some guys who are strugglingwith, you know, wanting to
achieve more in their life, withmen who were running in circles
around compulsive, you know,masturbation and pornography.
And men Christian men who were,you know, at church every
(07:17):
Sunday, even in leadership roles, but also had anger outbursts
that would scare their childrenand their families, their wives,
and these things were justpopping within them and it
didn't matter.
The thing that so impressed mewas it didn't matter why they
came or what they were reallychallenged with in their life.
(07:39):
They got some healing thathelped them walk out of there in
a different way.
And I told the founder that Iwas speaking of Greg Houston.
I had lunch with him on Sundayof the weekend and I said I want
every man in my life to get totaste what I tasted here.
(08:02):
It's incredible, how can I getall of the men in my life to do
this?
And within a short year or so,we began hosting these weekends
in Houston, texas.
So that's kind of how we movedand how we've grown.
It's amazing.
I think most people at that timein my life would have said
(08:25):
Roy's successful.
He has a wife that adores him,he has children that are
well-behaved and he's doing wellfor himself.
But about two weeks after theweekend my wife said I feel like
I got the husband that Imarried back.
So there was something thathappened on the weekend that had
(08:49):
, I know me, more connected withmy head and heart in such a way
that it was she was feeling it,she was sensing it and drawn to
me the way she was in our earlyyears of marriage.
I think I was about 20 years into marriage at that time.
So I've become an advocate andeventually volunteered for five
(09:15):
years amidst leading theministry I led there in Houston
and then eventually startedleading some of the weekends and
just before COVID felt calledto step into the role that they
were calling me to, to lead theministry and it's been a great
adventure through COVID and allof that and then to keep us
(09:39):
going and then to see how God'susing us.
And then to see how God's usingus we impacted close to a
thousand souls last year in.
These really go deep retreats.
Chris Grainger (09:52):
And you said they're weekend type retreats.
I'm assuming there'sdestination type areas that guys
are traveling to and do theyknow it?
Do they come as groups?
So is it individuals?
How does that typically work?
Roy Wooten (10:04):
Yeah, typically it's one person.
Whenever I went, I grabbed someguys that were around me in my
life and I said, hey, I'm goingto go do this.
It sounds challenging, do youwant to go?
And so I ended up with five ofmy friends on my weekend mostly
that it's individuals who comebecause it's a very important
(10:26):
process of taking a hard look atyourself right Beginning Friday
night when you arrive at 7 pmfor our weekend.
We have a series of experiencesmeant to help you look at how
your life is and what are thethings that you're putting in
(10:48):
the way between you and the manyou want to be, the man that
God's called you to be.
What are the things that youhave blocking you, that you've
put there, that you've allowedthrough your choices.
You've allowed Satan to putthere between you and God, and
you and your spouse, if you'remarried, you and your children,
(11:08):
if you're a parent, and justbetween you and the man that you
want to be.
So it's a heavy push down.
We believe in strong integrity,and integrity meaning that we
keep our word.
We make agreements that areclear and we always keep those
agreements.
We believe that the choices youmake have led to the life that
(11:33):
you are living in and aroundthat, that it's important to
find a place to stand and takeresponsibility for the life that
you're in, in other words, tostop blaming and complaining and
to move into a place of powerand responsibility, to actually
(11:55):
do something different, to makedifferent choices, so that you
can get the life that you reallywant.
And along the path we give menan opportunity to get real with
each other, to be authentic.
One of the things that I'm sadabout is how many men are living
(12:16):
in isolation.
It's a holy discontent of minethat three out of five men can't
name five or more friends andone out of five can't name a
single friend.
I mean, think about this, chrisyou go to the grocery store or
out to eat or to the lumberyardand you're looking around and
(12:38):
every fifth guy might not evenhave a friend in his life.
And I think it also happenswithin the church, where we have
these surface relationships.
We have these.
You know, we'll talk about theweather and we'll talk about
sports, we might say a prayerrequest about a health concern,
sometimes about something workrelated, but mainly we keep all
(13:00):
this real stuff hidden.
We don't say, yeah, I'm reallystruggling.
I don't know if I'm a goodfather.
You know, my son came home 12years old and smelled like pot
last week.
I just don't know what to do.
And you know, do I power up?
What do I do with him?
And so we go through lifeisolated, not really letting
people know what's going oninside of us.
(13:21):
And James 5.16 says to confessyour sins one to another for
healing, and the prayer of arighteous man availeth much.
So.
There is something powerfulabout confession that most
evangelical churches are leavingon the table for people.
And so we'll go through lifeshallow, disconnected, and we
(13:43):
might say we have a friend ortwo or five, but they're at a
distance.
And Satan tells us two liesthat we buy into.
You're the only one strugglingwith this, which is nonsense.
And number two, brother, ifyou're listening right now, this
is for you, that you, you haveto figure it out on your own,
(14:07):
that you've got to figure it outon your own.
And those two are lies right,yeah.
And so we really give, createopportunities through our series
of experiences, for men to getreal with each other about all
the things that's coming up forthem in the you know, as they've
taken a hard look at their lifeRight and, and, and so it's in
(14:29):
that, it's in that that God isusing us powerfully.
Chris Grainger (14:35):
That is really cool.
So on the experience level, I'mjust super curious Are some of
these physical type ofactivities that will push you to
some degree?
I'm sure it's not like a bootcamp where you're just actually
doing pushups in the mud andthings like that, but there's
probably, with guys there,there's an element of we got to
(14:55):
do some hard things here.
Roy Wooten (14:57):
Yes, so we do.
We do believe that just sittingaround listening to more
information is not the solution.
So there is some physicality toour weekend and there's one
exercise that is, or you know,one process that has some
physical challenge.
But the rest of the weekend isreally not that physically
(15:21):
challenged because we're reallyworking on between the ears and
between the head and heart and,instead of taking notes and
learning more, we're actuallygiving you a process so that you
can think through and feel intowhatever's going on in your
life, so that you can dosomething different about it.
(15:43):
So the amount of awareness thatwe have as humans, doing this
heart surgery that Ezekiel talksabout, and to really get clean,
to really be open and clean, tostep into fully the hard work
(16:06):
of maturing in my faith eventhough I might have been a
disciple for a long time, Imight have been saved in our
teens or as a child or somewherealong the way maybe the same
guy, just a little older than Iwas back then as far as my faith
development.
We are getting at those hardthings on our weekend and our
(16:29):
analogy is Jacob's story, so ifwe've got a couple of minutes
here, I'll try to unpack it.
Yeah, so Jacob's story is thathe was born into a home where,
you know, he was a twin and hisdad loved his brother more than
him.
Scripture says.
In fact, his brother was kindof burly, the masculine male.
(16:55):
He was out, you know, hunting,and Jacob was in the tents with
his mom and I can just imaginethe scripture doesn't say it,
but that there were some thingsgoing on in his head around.
Am I a man?
Am I good enough?
My dad loves him more.
Am I even lovable, etc.
(17:16):
And with his mom's connivinghelp, he manipulates his brother
out of his birthright, hisfather out of his blessing, and
flees with Esau telling him I'mgoing to kill you the next time
I see you.
That's right, right.
He goes and tries to start allover.
Now there's a lot of men whohave done that.
They're just like I messed upin this first marriage.
(17:38):
I've messed up in this thing.
I'm going to move to adifferent place.
I'm going to start all over.
I'm going to start all over.
I'm going to start a new job.
I'm going to start a new career.
I'm going to get a new family.
And this is what Jacob does.
He goes and works for hisfather-in-law's business.
Laban and him and hisbrother-in-laws are running this
business and over time hestarts becoming again a bit
(18:01):
manipulative and hisbrother-in-laws find out and
Jacob goes oh no, we've got toget.
And he runs again.
He's running and hiding the waythat so many men do, and it
takes them two or three days forLaban and the crew to start
chasing them.
He takes everything that he has, all his employees that he can,
all of all of his assets, andhe's run and his family.
(18:23):
And and he's run and his family, and he finds himself.
He hears Jacob's coming with 600men and he finds himself on the
brook of the Jabbok, betweenthe decisions that he made a
long time ago and the choicesthat he made most recently and
the consequences of those.
And there God meets him andwrestles with him and in the
(18:45):
wrestling he says who are you?
And he said my name is Jacob.
He admits that he's a conniver,deceiver, manipulator.
He owns his name given at birthand through the wrestling he
fights until God blesses him andin the blessing he's given a
new name, a name of Israel.
(19:07):
That from that moment on, hewalked out of that with a
different walk.
He was limping.
He walked out of that with adifferent walk and in such a way
that Jacob didn't kill him butblessed him, and now a whole
nation is named after him.
Right, his people, people inhis heritage, his ancestral
relatives, still call themselvesIsraelites sometimes.
(19:30):
So this is a powerful exampleof what God can do with us.
When we get real with him, westop hiding, we own stuff with
him and we dive into the hardwork to fight for the blessing.
Chris Grainger (19:51):
Amen.
Love the story of Jacob as well.
That's a great, greatconnection there.
Guys, we're going to take ourfirst break.
We'll come right back with Roy.
I've got something big to share.
We're making a major shiftbecause we know the battle is
real and it's time more men hadaccess to the support they need.
For too long, guys have beentrying to carry the weight alone
(20:13):
pressure at work, tension athome, wounds from the past in a
world that demands strength butoffers no place to rest.
We see it, we've lived it, andthat's exactly why we built our
community.
It's a stronghold, a placewhere warriors can find rest,
truth and a band of brothersstanding beside them.
And starting now, we're makingit easier than ever to step in.
(20:35):
We've lowered the barrier tojust $15.99 a month.
That means, for less than thecost of a drive-thru lunch, you
can join a brotherhood that'scentered on Christ and built for
growth.
Inside you'll find access toour daily spiritual kickoffs
every Monday through Friday, ourLion Lunches, our Bible Studies
, our Friday Forge Gatheringsall that and so much more.
(20:55):
Every man needs a stronghold andyou don't have to fight alone.
If you've been waiting for theright time to jump in, this is
it.
Go to thelionwithinus and jointhe community and see for
yourself what happens when irontruly sharpens iron.
Well, I know part of whatyou're doing as well.
(21:15):
What we're hopeful to touch ontoday, outside the crucible
project, is this brand new bookyou have unstuck and and I
really would hope that you giveit just a breakdown of what led
you to to putting that together.
It looks like a great resource,particularly for fathers out
there thank you so much.
Roy Wooten (21:32):
Yeah, um yeah, I produce a weekly devotional we
call it Compass Resources and Iwas just taking the things that
were most, you know, mostshowing up in the men that we
were working on and writingarticles to address those and
(21:53):
within a short period of timeover six months or so Unstuck
started to kind of reveal itselfout of it, this idea that most
of what is keeping us in thesame place in our lives not
having the discussion with ourboss around our career, not
(22:17):
stepping away from corporateAmerica to launch the thing we
feel like God's calling us tolaunch in our business, not
having the marriage that we wantbecause we won't have the hard
conversations with our wivesMost of what's in the way is
because we're stuck and it'sbased in fear.
There's fear that if I act andI do whatever it is that I feel
(22:41):
like I want to do I really wantin my heart, but I'm scared to
do that something bad is goingto happen.
And not only is something badgoing to happen, but the things
that I've been doing.
Instead of doing the thing thatI'm afraid of, I'm actually
getting something out of thosethings, and so I would have to
(23:04):
give up something in order to go.
So fear is in the way and thenalso I have a pull away from it
and in the middle of being stuck, we can get familiar with the
stuckness so that it becomes ournew norm.
Right, it's comfortable for usand we can live in this space
and we don't like it.
(23:25):
It's not where we want to be,but it's our normal.
And there are a lot of guys whoare stuck in their lives in a
number of different areas oftheir life.
It might be a pattern ofbehavior that you don't want to
do, but you find yourself, youcontinue to do.
It might be some aspirationalthing that you just have never
(23:50):
taken the step to do.
I remember when I wrote myfirst book, you know, 15 years
ago, that big fear of launchingand going and doing and pushing
the button to send it out.
You know, moving through thefear Look, begin unstuck takes
finding your courage, whichmeans there's not it doesn't
(24:12):
mean there's no fear.
You got to find the lion within, right, so that you can face
the fear and go through it andgo ahead and take the action
anyway, and really God, over andover in scripture, blesses
action.
It's when we, it's not when wemade the decision.
It's whenever we get intoaction on it that all of a
(24:33):
sudden the blessings come Right.
And I, you know I have a storyin my head that somewhere along
the way, chris, you felt thecalling to launch this podcast
right, and you had to getthrough some of your own blocks
to actually go and do it.
Like there's got to be somebodyelse better than me to do this.
Or you know, I'm like Moses, Idon't speak very well, and you
(24:56):
know all of these excuses, andso the book is about getting at
that, and you can't get off ofit unless you really do some
investigation in identity.
So many men live with you knowall of the lies from Satan that
he just kind of whispered in amoment in their life You're not
(25:17):
good enough, you don't have whatit takes, you're not lovable,
you're not worthy, you're not areal man, you're defective,
you're broken, etc.
But Scripture is very differentabout what they say about us,
and maturing in your faith iscontinuing to move from the lies
that run in your head, thatkeep you from being all that
(25:40):
God's called you to be, to notonly discovering but also
believing and living out of thethings that God says is true
about you.
Like you are valuable, you areworthy.
I take delight in you, he saysin the psalm.
And so getting that identity isa core thing.
(26:02):
And so much of our identityproblems are tied to our wounds.
Chris, back in our childhood,our teen years, where something
big or something small happened,where Satan first whispered
that that lie, that you're notgood enough or whatever.
And the way God made our brainsis, you know, to look for
(26:28):
things that might be risky to us, things that might be dangerous
to us.
God built us that way.
Fear is God-given, is what I'msaying.
Fear in and of itself isGod-given.
Living in a spirit of fear isnot.
Paul tells Timothy I didn't giveyou a spirit of fear, I gave
you a spirit of power.
(26:49):
And so you know, a little boygoes through life, has some
wounds along the way, decidesthat he's not good enough, and
then he starts looking forevidence that that's true, is
this true about me?
And he can easily find it.
Satan shows up with it and bythe time he's 20, he already
(27:10):
believes that that's true abouthim and living unaware of how
that belief that he's livingwith was getting in the way of
him, you know and impactingeverything, that he's doing
everything, and we believe that,in order to get at that
identity, you've got to go backinto the pain, back into the
(27:40):
pain, and when you get a chanceto go in a safe environment, in
a safe container of other menwho are also doing it right, so
you're not alone, oh my goodness, the healing that happens is
powerful.
It is so powerful and able towalk out, like Jacob did, with a
new identity of sorts, a truthfrom God, that is from scripture
(28:01):
, that is also in your heart,that you can live out now.
Chris Grainger (28:06):
Amen.
I am really curious for you,though, all the different guys
that you've worked with from I'mthinking generationals, from
millennials, Gen Z, Gen X, evenboomers, and taking this concept
of unstuck, are there anycommon threads that you see from
(28:28):
generation to generation?
And then, what are some of thenewer nuanced things that maybe
millennials have faced that noother generation that you have
seen as much, or Gen X, orwhatever it may be?
I'm just curious what are thecommonalities and what are the
nuanced things for thosespecific genres and collection
(28:49):
of men that you've worked with?
Roy Wooten (28:51):
Yeah, so we are finding the younger, like under
30 or number one, more open togetting away from their devices,
which is strange.
Like there's that thatmillennials actually have like
fear to give up you know theirdevices and get, you know, get
it get in a space where they'redisconnected electronically
(29:13):
virtually for a long period oftime.
And and a Gen Xers a littleless so, but still because now
they're running their businesseson their phones right Now
they're running their businesseswherever they are and so
they're afraid to likedisconnect for a whole weekend
and get real with other men.
(29:35):
But these, you know, Gen Z,these younger ones under 30,
under 27, they're they are like,oh, I'd like to take a break
from technology and they'velived on it their whole life and
it's like they're not afraid tobe away from it and to connect
with real people.
(29:55):
So I find that interesting.
The other thing that'sinteresting is the, you know,
boomers are and we have fewerand fewer coming.
You know we've got some thatcome in their 70s, but they're
aging more and more.
They've lived their whole lifewith more secrecy.
For the most part, they'velived their whole life with more
(30:16):
secrecy.
For the most part, they'velived their whole life with more
secrecy.
And so the thing.
You know, I remember a churchleader I think it was a deacon
at his church.
He just refused to do anything,almost anything that they asked
him to do Certainly never teachor say a prayer in public or
(30:36):
whatever.
And he came on the weekend andwhenever it came time for him to
kind of wrestle with God aroundhis stuff, he told a story
about being, I think he was 10.
And he used to go like with aquarter to watch the movie on
Sunday the matinee and some ofthe other boys older boys, boys
(30:59):
in the balcony and they calledhim up and he thought it was
cool to get to be with them andthen they sexually abused him.
He had never told that story.
He's in his 70s, never told thatstory, and he had been living
out of a shameful place that notonly God could never forgive
(31:19):
him, which is just a lie.
There's nothing that you'veever done or has ever been done
to you that God doesn't forgiveyou for.
And so he went through thatexperience.
But also, living out of theshame, he just felt unworthy
around all the other people.
He thought he was the only oneand that he had to figure it out
(31:40):
on his own.
This man walked out of thereand started giving testimonials
in public at church.
His church leadership movedconsiderably because he got
healing around that incident inhis life that Satan used
powerfully to keep him out ofthe leadership in the church and
(32:04):
leadership in general.
So, from the young to the old,the series of exercises seem to
be working on whatever issuethat they bring, and we've
worked with service, activeservice and veterans.
We've worked with people who'vebeen through big T traumas, you
(32:25):
know, and and small, you know.
Chris Grainger (32:29):
Seriously.
I mean the, the tax on marriage.
It seems like it's just it's atan all-time high right now.
So in your events, are youseeing some commonalities there?
Obviously, pornography, you'vealready mentioned that earlier.
But what are you seeing and howare you seeing some of these
(32:49):
guys move past towards healingin those areas, because I'm sure
we're the evil ones trying tosteal, kill and destroy every
one of our marriages out here.
So I'm just curious from yourexpertise and your experiences,
what's the feedback from thefield?
Roy Wooten (33:04):
Yeah, if I'm living in a place of identity challenge
around those lies that Satan'sgiven me and I feel like I'm the
only one and I've got to figureit out on my own, then I'm
living alone and isolated somuch so that I'm easier to be
taken out with things.
(33:24):
You know the ways that men numbthemselves from the pain, the
ways that men run and hide theway Jacob did, and pornography
is one.
You know affairs and buying sex, but also like being so much
into individual sports thatthey're like isolated from their
(33:48):
family.
Working workaholism, likeworking all the time just to
stay away from the conflict inthe home, like working all the
time just to stay away from theconflict in the home.
You know there are a lot ofthings that are behaviors that
get in the way, and I think partof the reason why we feel like
(34:09):
we've got to figure it out onour own is the way that we are
acculturated today as boys.
So as boys, I don't know if youexperienced this, chris, but
somewhere along the way somebodysaid boy, don don't know if you
experienced this, chris, butsomewhere along the way somebody
said boy, don't you cry whenyou let a tear out, you maybe
showed some fear in the gymclass or the other boys made fun
of you.
So you decided any show ofweakness or any way that I
(34:31):
actually express my emotionsI've got to be, not ever do so.
We stuff them and we hide them,et cetera.
And what's breaking thathappens through the weekend is
that men find that they canactually trust and be real and
(34:52):
authentic with other men so thatthey can not try to get their
strength from women, but throughthe sharpening each other in
their connections with men andsmall groups and small meetups
they are able to carry strengthinto their relationship so that
(35:17):
they're not coming to their wifewith neediness but coming to
their wife with strength.
Chris Grainger (35:28):
That's great, that is wonderful.
Well, I mean, as we I've workedwith groups like this in the
past as well Sometimes a bighurdle that guys have is
actually being vulnerable.
So how do you get them pastthat to where they can just be?
You've already mentioned theword authentic, which I love,
(35:49):
but that vulnerability is a bigpiece as well.
When you throw those two wordsout to some guys, they're going
to turn 180 and go the otherdirection.
So how do you encourage them tojust not don't do that about
face and to start leaning in it?
Roy Wooten (36:05):
is scary.
To take the thing that I reallybelieve is true about me that
if I shared it with anyone, ifanyone knew it, then they would
abandon me, reject me, kick meout, et cetera Then to step
forward in courage and to ownthat in front of another.
(36:27):
That's a very scary thing.
And James says there's healingin that right, james 5.16,.
There's healing in that right,james 5.16, there's healing when
you confess, when you confessto one another not only the sins
that you've done, but also thesins that have been done to you.
So I really believe that thereason that we get men there so
(36:50):
fast is because we have.
You know, this is an event.
This is not an event where youhave a speaker or a speaker or
two who are giving out knowledgeand, you know, sometimes even
setting themselves up to be, youknow, be like me kind of.
You know, I've got it alltogether.
This is not a weekend like that.
This is a weekend wheresomewhere around 20, 25
(37:14):
different teachers will teachand they're all men who have
gone through our weekend andthey've gone through the hard
parts themselves and now they'recoming back to help other men
kind of get through.
They're fighting for the heartsof the men that are coming
through.
And so we do it by example,like the teacher isn't saying do
(37:38):
it like me as far as, like I'vegot it all together.
They're saying I also havestuff in my life and here's what
I got going on.
That kind of authenticity, theresearch on shame says breeds
authenticity.
In other words, when someonegoes first, vulnerability
actually is magnetic and drawspeople to you and gives
(38:04):
permission for other men to bereal themselves.
So we have a sign that doesn'tsound very Christian, but we
have a sign at our retreat thatsays it's just got two letters B
and the letter S and it's got abig no cross through it.
And we're just like be real,come on, be real.
(38:29):
Jesus lived in such a way thatwas authentic and real.
Right, he walked around withthe men in his life and those
that followed him and talkedabout all kinds of things in
life, like, hey, guys, you know,I know you want to be first and
second and third, but you knowthe first will be last.
(38:49):
He was challenging to them.
He wasn't like a passive leader.
He wasn't a Christian.
Good boy, nice boy.
He wouldn't have been crucifiedif he was, because they
crucified people who weredangerous.
So Jesus really stepped into thecourage in his life.
He stood between a mob who wasgoing to, between a mob who was
(39:19):
going to throw rocks and kill awoman who had been caught doing
something wrong, committingadultery.
He stood between them and put abarrier there.
He stepped in to cleanse andturn tables at the temple, not
out of like I'm angry and I pop,but he fashioned a whip.
It says so that had to takesome time.
He did it methodically and noone got hurt.
(39:40):
We don't have any record thatanyone got hurt in that.
We heard some businesses, butpeople and, and over and over
again he does the hard thing.
He has real conversations withthose around him.
He tells Peter, someone hereally loves look, it's going to
get tough and you're going tosay you don't even know who I am
(40:01):
.
He tells him that he doesn'thide back from that fact.
He tells him that.
But then he does thisincredible restoration of him on
the other side of hisresurrection, where he sits with
his buddy and he says look, doyou love me?
Do you know me?
Can we restore this?
(40:22):
He does the hard things overand over again.
That is a man of courage, not aman of acquiescing to the world,
that is, a man of assertiveness, not a man who's passive in his
world and he's not all bowed upwith muscles and tats and with
(40:42):
a big truck and trying to showand prove I'm masculine.
He is masculine in a way thatshows courage but also is safe
for all the women around him.
Women felt safe around him tocome with him, to be in him and
follow him and to be thedisciples of his and children
(41:07):
were drawn to him.
He was a man that children weredrawn to, just as he went about
life.
So when we look at Jesus, wecan see some ways that we should
be as men.
Chris Grainger (41:18):
Yes, amen to that, amen to that.
Well, this has been phenomenal.
Roy, if you wouldn't mind, we'dlove to play a lightning round
with you towards the end andjust to kind of get to know you
a little bit more, and so we'lldive right into that.
Roy Wooten (41:33):
Well, let me make sure people know they can get a
free copy of my book and get adaily devotional the devotional
you know that I told you I writecalled Compass Resources.
At our website it's calledthecrucibleprojectorg and they
go down there and give us theirname and email address and I'll
(41:53):
be in their inbox every week andthey'll get a free copy of the
book.
Chris Grainger (41:57):
That's awesome.
Now, was that a daily,devotional or weekly?
I can't remember what you said.
Roy Wooten (42:01):
I'm sorry, weekly yes.
Chris Grainger (42:02):
Weekly.
Okay, all right, so we'll makesure that links in the show
notes for you guys.
So we'll jump right into thelightning round, roy.
Roy Wooten (42:20):
So what's something that you enjoy doing for fun?
You got any hobbies that youthat you that you enjoy For
forever, like being in nature,hiking, fishing has been my
thing, but two years ago Godblessed us with a grandson and
he's my number one favoritething to do.
Like just to be with him, playwith him, you know, get him out
in the world and have some ofhis first, the first time he
ever fished, the first time hehad an ice cream cone.
You know I was teaching him howto roll up and down the windows
.
I'm sure my daughter and herhusband are going to be really
(42:41):
frustrated about that, you know,in a vehicle, but it is such a
joy to have a grand, agrandchild.
Chris Grainger (42:49):
Amen to that Amen.
It sounds like he's close by aswell.
Roy Wooten (42:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Grainger (42:54):
Yeah, you get this.
He's going to be a spoiledlittle dude.
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Now you're in Texas, so what's?
What's your go-to food?
Roy Wooten (43:03):
Oh man, tacos and enchiladas.
You know it's got to be Tex-Mex.
I like a good steak and allthat, but you know I have a.
I built this body by eatingtacos and enchiladas.
Right, and the problem is Ithink I have a taco addiction
and there's a dealer on everycorner here in San Antonio, so
(43:24):
they are so good and they'reeverywhere and, yeah, I've got
to pace myself and how many Ieat and how frequently I eat
them.
Chris Grainger (43:38):
What's a myth about Texas that you want to
debunk?
I mean, since you are out ofTexas, a lot of people have
these thoughts about Texas.
What's something that you liketo debunk here?
Roy Wooten (43:50):
Oh, so that's a scary question.
You know I was in Australia.
We do weekends in Australia,both the East and West coast,
and usually people when theymeet me if they're the first
time they've ever met a Tex theywonder if we have horses.
Everybody has horses.
How many times I've been shotat, you know?
They wonder about gun violence.
They wonder you know stuff likethat.
(44:12):
Well, I don't feel unsafeanywhere I go here.
I feel safe in Texas and thereare ranchers and cattle and
horses, but the majority ofpeople living in Texas don't
have anything to do with thoseindustries.
The other thing I would say iswe are similar to most states
(44:34):
where the urban centers lean onedirection and the rural Texas
leans another.
So that's pretty common.
But there's this like real, youknow, individualist, we can do
it, we're going to figure it out, you know.
And pride in the state of Texasfor Texans, and I wish
(44:56):
Americans loved America as muchas Texans love Texas.
Chris Grainger (45:00):
Amen to that, amen.
Well, let's do a fun one.
So superpowers there's allthese superhero movies and
things out there.
Royce, if you could have asuperpower, which one would you
choose and how would you use it?
Roy Wooten (45:13):
Hmm, Wow, you know I mean what, what?
What went first in my mind too,was those tacos.
Like if I could eat all thetacos I wanted and lose weight,
that would be it.
You know, that's a billiondollar, that's a billion dollar
product, right there.
You know, I don't know.
(45:35):
I think I think if I could bein service and in mission and
and still always be with family,that would be the best.
I travel a bit for my job, ofcourse, and I love family.
I love my son and daughter andgrandson and all of my in-laws
and my wife, yeah, so it's justa blessing.
(45:58):
I think if I could do that,that would be what I would do.
Chris Grainger (46:03):
Love it, Love it .
What do you think about God Roy?
What is your favorite thingabout him?
Roy Wooten (46:10):
Love it, love it.
What do you think about God,roy?
What is your favorite thingabout him?
He knows me and everythingabout me, and even things that I
might not even fully know aboutmyself, and he still loves me
and I bring him pleasure.
The psalmist says so that blowsme away.
The love that he has, not justfor me but for everyone, that he
(46:39):
pursues us, that he is after us, that he wants to be in
relationship with us.
And he wrote the book not as abook of rules, but kind of like
the owner's manual of this iswhat's helpful and good for you.
Right, do it this way and lifewill be good for you.
And if you don't, it'll be hardfor life to be good for you.
And so to think about a Godwho's just pursuing me at that
(46:59):
pace and that he loves peoplethat I even have trouble loving,
and that he loves people that Ieven have trouble loving, it
just blows me away.
Love it.
Chris Grainger (47:12):
Love it.
Let's flip it 180, Roy.
Roy Wooten (47:18):
What's your least favorite thing about the evil
one?
How he can take truth even froma pulpit and just twist it just
a little bit.
A pulpit, and just twist itjust a little bit.
That allows predators to hurtpeople who are new in their
faith, like the number ofpastors who are blowing up their
(47:42):
ministries with moral failingsbreaks my heart and there's a
part of me that's like ifCrucible could have just got to
them.
You know, a year earlier, sixmonths earlier, we could have
prevented this.
And then we see so many whocome through our weekends who
(48:03):
have church wounds or pastorwounds from things that are just
horrible, horrible to mention.
You know that they've livedthrough.
Yeah, and I believe Satan's atwork with isolating pastors and
making them feel like, you know,they don't need any
accountability or they don'tneed other men in their lives,
(48:28):
and so that he can take them outand in doing so, sometimes
taking out some really innocentpeople along the way.
Chris Grainger (48:36):
Yeah, 100%.
Well, roy, this has been great.
The last question for you iswhat do you hope that the
listeners remember the most fromour conversation today?
Roy Wooten (48:44):
Yeah, get unstuck, man.
The thing that you're afraid todo to be all that God's called
you to be.
Just take action, garner yourcourage and move in the
direction, even though you'reafraid.
Move in that direction and justwatch.
God bless you as you go.
Chris Grainger (49:07):
Amen, Amen.
One more time.
Point them to your URL.
Where do you want to send them?
To connect with you and thewonderful things you're doing?
Roy Wooten (49:13):
Yes, thecrucibleprojectorg, we're
also on all the social mediachannels, so but,
thecrucibleprojectorg, go downand fill out the form for
Compass and we'll send you acopy of my book for free.
Chris Grainger (49:27):
Awesome, awesome , roy, thank you so much.
It's been an honor to have youon sir.
Roy Wooten (49:32):
You bet.
God bless you, Chris.
Chris Grainger (49:36):
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All right, fellas, I told youthat was going to be a good one.
(50:21):
So I'm so thankful for Roy forjoining us.
Just a good time, just tounpack, just to hear his heart
and how he's really out thereserving in a meaningful way.
The question of the week thisweek is who helps carry your
burdens when life feelsoverwhelming?
Let's just be real Life canfeel overwhelming.
Quite often you got to havesome people in your corner that
(50:42):
are going to come alongside.
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that area, I implore you to goto thelionwithinus.
Check out our resources, checkout our community.
It could be a great way toconnect with some guys that are
going to come alongside youright now Prayer warriors, just
(51:07):
guys to talk to, guys to be real, transparent, authentic, with
right there at the line withDennis.
Ok, we also have our, ourleadership mastermind.
So if you want to take it tothe next level, to where you
actually can start forming deep,deep relationships and having
meaningful conversations andgetting salient advice, not from
(51:27):
the world, but biblical advice,the Leadership Mastermind is
where it's at.
So, again, all those resourcesare found at thelionwithinus.
So, guys, give us a rating,give us a review.
If you want to support the show, click on the donate button.
That would be wonderful as well.
Other than that, we'll see youon our fun Friday episode.
So, thanks so much forlistening.
(51:47):
Guys, have a great day and justkeep on leashing the lion
within.
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