621. Striving For The Faith With Alex Kocman

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What if Philippians isn’t a collection of coffee-mug quotes, but a battle plan for ordinary believers to live on mission? We sit down with author and missions leader Alex Kocman to explore how Paul’s letter calls men to stand firm, speak truth with love, and lock shields as a church that shares real risks and real joy. From Philippians 1:27’s “striving side by side” to the practical charge to “do all things without grumbling,” we break down how weekday habits, public courage, and brotherly solidarity turn faith into action.

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Episode Transcript

Chris Grainger (02:33):
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast
serving Christian men who arehungry to be the leaders God
intends you to be.
I'm your host, Chris Granger.
Let's jump in.
All right, fellas, meet episodetime.
Let's get right into it, okay?
So the scripture of the weekthis week is in the book of 2
Corinthians, the fifth chapter,and we're looking at verses 14
and 15.
It says, For the love of Christcontrols us, having concluded

(02:54):
this, that one died for all,therefore all died, and he died
for all, so that those who livewould no longer live for
themselves, but him who died androse on their behalf.
Love that verse, guys.
If you want to have thatunpacked to give you some ideas
on how you can simplify andapply it to your life, listen to

(03:15):
the spiritual kickoff episode.
It should be the one previous,just back in your podcast feed
right there.
And again, we try to do thespiritual kickoff.
We don't try, we do thespiritual kickoff every day in
our Lion Within this community.
So if you enjoy the SKOepisodes each week and you'd
like to have a little moreencouragement throughout your
week, hey, check it out.
Go to the LionWithin.us, signup for the daily spiritual

(03:39):
kickoff.
It gives you access to ourplatform completely free.
It's the way we just try toencourage guys, and also gives
you access to our prayer requestboard.
So you can come in, you candrop prayer requests, and I
guarantee you every time someonedrops a prayer request, which
is daily, it happens all thetime.
They get prayed over, they getlifted up by a band of warriors
who are ready to go to battlefor you.

(04:00):
So again, the lionwithin.us iswhere you'll find that at.
Okay.
All right, fellas.
So this is a good one.
This is got we brought in theauthor, Alex Kochman, to us uh
for this conversation.
He serves as the director ofcommunications and engagement at
ABWE.
Okay, so he's really working toadvance the global work of
spreading the gospel throughsome strategic communication

(04:23):
efforts.
So uh he went to LibertyUniversity, so GoFlames, a lot
of fun talking about that.
Uh he's a he's a writer,speeder, uh, speaker, author.
Uh he's done stuff on sitessuch as like Nine Marks, the
Ghost, the Gospel Coalition,Founders Ministries.
So he's really trying to put alot of his effort where uh the

(04:44):
intersection with theology, withculture, and the mission.
So he he's really bringing uhan interesting take on that.
And we talked a little bitabout today about this his new
book, Striving for the Faith,The Journey Through Philippians
for Life on Mission.
And uh so we really had a lotof fun unpacking that.
We we talked about severaldifferent areas, by the way,
guys.
We talked about areas so far aslike how can we stand firm with

(05:07):
the the sexual revolutionthat's happening all around us
with LGTBTQ agenda, uh PlannedParenthood, all the stuff.
How do we as Christians, man,how should we respond?
What does that look like?
And where do we go to get thosereps at, okay?
To actually get ready to beeffective when we go out to have
these conversations on behalfof the gospel for the kingdom,

(05:30):
okay?
So lots of practical stuff.
Alex is a, he's from, he livesin York, Pennsylvania.
He's got his wife, he's gotfour kids, he's got one on the
way told me.
So bit busy, busy guy.
But hopefully you're gonnaenjoy this conversation with
Alex Kochman.
Well, Alex, welcome to the LionWithin Us.
How are you doing today, sir?

Alex Kocman (05:50):
Doing great on this Friday that we're recording.
Thanks for having me on, Chris.
It's a pleasure to be here.

Chris Grainger (05:57):
I'm excited to have you here for sure.
And I always like to start theshow kind of on a light note.
So maybe tell us something funabout you, Alex, that not many
people know about.
Something fun about me, yikes.

Alex Kocman (06:10):
Uh man, you're putting me on the spot.
I'm an avid guitarist.
Um, I I happen to lead worshipin our church.
I don't give off the typicalworship leader vibe.
Um, I think my testosterone isprobably higher than the average
worship leader at a lot ofevangelical churches.
Hopefully, if I'm doing thingsright, it is.
Um but uh I actually cut myteeth playing lead electric

(06:32):
guitar.
Um, and uh not not doing somuch of that these days, but you
know, that's a passion that Itry, try to cultivate.
Unfortunately, not a lot ofluck at that.
But you know, there's there'snot a lot of free time lately.
We've got four kids, we've gotnumber five on the way.
So um any spare moment I canfind, though, to either sit down

(06:53):
in front of a piano or with aguitar is a good day in my book.

Chris Grainger (06:58):
That's awesome.
So a lead guitar player, so Igot I mean, normally I save this
towards the end, but I've gotto ask you, so what's what's
your favorite bands like whenyou're shredding?
Who you who are you coveringthere?

Alex Kocman (07:08):
Uh that's a great question.
I mean, I I I I my musicaltaste is kind of eclectic, but
my musical style of playing umwas probably the most influenced
by, and this isn't probably whoeveryone would cite, but um I
probably mastered every singleguitar lick that I ever heard

(07:28):
Keith Urban playing.
Um Keith Urban was a big one.
Stevie Ravon um was anotherhuge one.
Um, but uh that that's kind ofwhat what informed my playing
style.
It's kind of you know, like alight country blues informed,
uh, but I like to underplayinstead of overplay, you know.
Um that's me.

(07:49):
Of course, I'm rusty now,though.
But if I'm playing riffs andlicks, it's usually one of those
guys.

Chris Grainger (07:56):
All right.
That now that's incredible.
All right.
So yeah, if you're you'rehanging with uh Urban and Steve,
Stevie Ray Vaughn, that's uhthat that's saying something
right there.
So maybe you can send us atrack or something we can put it
in at the end of the episode.
Well, share share with us ourlisteners that that don't know
you just a little bit about yourfaith journey.

(08:17):
You know, love, love to know alittle bit about you, how you
came to know the Lord, and whatled you to this point.

Alex Kocman (08:23):
Of course.
I um had the immense privilegeof having a boring testimony,
and it's the kind of testimonythat I want all of my kids to
have.
I was blessed with a Christianupbringing and uh believing
parents.
Um, as happens to so many uhkids, though, when they get to
be a certain age, a little bitof rebelliousness sets in, and

(08:47):
the Lord brought me through somethings and broke me in my teen
years.
Um, and out of that came arenewed commitment.
Um, I finally submitted toreceiving baptism.
Um and the Lord gave me alsoout of that a desire for uh
full-time ministry.
And I didn't know what thatwould look like.
Um, I knew a lot of people incollege who uh at Liberty

(09:08):
University in our biblicalstudies program, pastoral
leadership program, you know, Imy my daddy was a preacher, my
granddaddy was a preacher, youknow.
I was born on the church altar.
Like there was a lot of peoplethat were very certain that they
wanted to go into a particulartype of ministry.
I always had other interests.
I was doing some marketing,some journalism, and then some
ministry on the side, and I hadsome interest in missions as

(09:29):
well, and I didn't know howthose things would all sort of
coalesce.
And then um probably abouteight or nine, uh actually nine
years ago now, um, the Lordopened a phenomenal door of
opportunity through ABWE tocombine all of those different
things that I had been doing inpastoral ministry, in marketing,
communications.
And so I have the immenseprivilege of serving with uh

(09:52):
missions agency right now,helping local churches send and
also helping to celebrate andserve missionaries by telling
their story and doing so throughall sorts of different media.
So I feel like I'm breathingrare air.
Um I wake up excited everysingle day to sink my teeth into
that ministry, um, all by thegrace of God.
I was not the sort of personthat had a natural inclination

(10:12):
towards uh missions, evangelism.
You know, I don't I don'tactually like uh confrontation,
generally speaking.
I like to kind of, you know,play it nice and play it safe
naturally, like a lot of us do.
And as far as missions goes,you know, I wasn't a missionary
on the field.
And I was kind of thatChristian kid in church that was
like, Lord, don't let me go toAfrica and don't let me be
single.

(10:32):
And so far, as as ill-conceivedas that prayer is for many of
us, uh, he hasn't sent me toAfrica and I'm very much not
single, as my wife can attest.
So that's that's the road thatwe've been on, though, and um
getting to serve um the Lord andand be a part of what he's
doing among the nations, but toto do so from the position of a
sender um and as a leader in thelocal church.

Chris Grainger (10:56):
That is awesome.
I was laughing on the Africathing because my wife, my she
and I, we did a uh she went toLiberty by the way, Go Flames.
So we're gonna go for righthere with you.
We're right here with you.
And uh but we did a spiritualgift test actually last night.
And uh it was funny becausewhen it got to uh some of the
the parts around you knowmissionary type work, she pulled

(11:18):
up her phone and played thatsong, uh Please don't send me to
Africa.
It's a it's a funny, it's ait's a you know, it's like I
will do, I'll be a deacon, I'llserve, I'll show, you know, I'll
do everything I can, but pleasedon't anyway.
Uh that was funny when you saidthat.
I'm like, that's kind ofironic.

Alex Kocman (11:34):
Well, the love, especially for someone in my
role.

Chris Grainger (11:39):
That's right, that's right.
Well, I definitely, your book,Striving for the Faith, you
know, a journey throughPhilippians for the lifelong
mission.
I I really enjoyed workingthrough this.
And I maybe just kind of, youknow, what does that mean to
you?
You know, why why Philippians,what led you to this?
I mean, obviously, putting awork together like this, as
someone who's an author myself,I know there's a lot that's

(12:01):
involved in just writing andgetting a book published, but
what why do you think you knowGod put this topic on your
heart?

Alex Kocman (12:09):
Yeah, it actually started not with my initiative
or idea.
It actually started withsomething that another leader in
our organization was doing, um,which was what what he called,
and and other organizations havedone something similar, um, our
938 prayer initiative.
So, Matthew 938, pray the Lordof the harvest to send forth

(12:29):
laborers into the harvest.
That idea being that thenations, the mission field, are
white for the harvest, they'reripe for the picking, and so we
should pray that God in hissovereignty would raise up
qualified gospel workers to besent out into the world.
And so um, every day at 9.38,the encouragement has been to
set your alarm to pray forworkers at 9.38 to be sent out

(12:53):
among the nations.
And so it started with that,and then uh out of that came the
desire to build devotionals toaccompany that.
But that quickly for me took ona life of its own.
And uh I think we're all drawn,hopefully, at some level as
believers, if we know our Bible,we should be drawn to the book
of Philippians.
Some of the most quotablestatements that the Apostle Paul

(13:16):
makes are in the book ofPhilippians.
So, on the one hand, it was aneasy choice, um, but on the
other hand, it was um difficultin that how do you do justice to
what Paul is doing and how doyou show the connectivity of the
book, the continuous flow ofthought.
Um, he's not just trying togive a bunch of inspirational
aphorisms.

(13:36):
Um, he's really giving apractical, incarnated theology
of mission for his readers.
And the the biggest thing thatwas impressed upon me going
through the book of Philippianswas this book doesn't make any
sense if the people that he waswriting to uh weren't already

(13:57):
about the work of mission, ifthey didn't have any skin in the
game.
So if a missionary sends aprayer letter to his supporting
church back home and he's sayingthings like, Yeah, you guys
know how it is, you guys are inthe trenches with me, you know,
we're partners in the gospel.
Like the missionary isn't goingto talk that way if those lay
people really don't have skin inthe game, if they aren't a part
of the work of ministry in somesense, even if it's just

(14:20):
through praying, throughfinancial generosity.
But Paul clearly saw the churchin Philippi differently.
You know, it's the only epistlewhere he doesn't really rebuke
them for anything, he warns themabout other people influencing
them, you know, but it's notlike Galatians where he comes
out swinging against them or 1Corinthians.
Uh it he he really only haspositive things to say about the

(14:41):
church by and large.
He tells a few of the ladies toget along with each other and
bury the hatchet in chapterfour.
Um, so for me, you know, I'msomeone who uh I've I've swung
the pendulum either side of mylife, you know, all the way
from, oh, I'm so I feel soguilty about missions about
evangelism.
I can't even have a normalconversation with somebody

(15:02):
without feeling, you know,guilty.
Like I need to shoehorn thefour spiritual laws into that
conversation, all the way tothis opposite extreme of apathy,
where I'm not thinking aboutthe eternal destiny of the
people around me.
What's that sweet spot where,like, okay, we're not all the
Apostle Paul?
Uh, not everyone is called todo the work of a public

(15:22):
evangelist to the same degreeand in the same sense.
Um, but then also we are allsupposed to own the mission and
we're all supposed to feel whenJesus says in Matthew 28 that
you know, go into all the world,make disciples.
We're supposed to feel in someway like that's our job, um,
that our job is to play intothat broader purpose for

(15:45):
Christ's people on earth.
And so, what what does thatlook like for a lay person, um,
not just a professionalfull-time Christian?
And so that that really allcame together in my mind to
point me towards, you know,Philippians is the right place
to spend.
And I spent about a yearworking through that and and
trying to mine out uh not justwhat's being taught here,

(16:08):
because of course it's scriptureand there's there's value in
that alone, but also uh whatdoes scripture say throughout
the whole book, not just thememorable bits, but the whole
book that says or impliessomething having to do with how
the individual Christian issupposed to live on mission and
to live with purpose.
That was the project, and itwas uh it was fun, it was

(16:30):
stretching, uh, but it wasedifying for sure.

Chris Grainger (16:34):
And you said you took a year of research to kind
of go through it.
Where where where do you thinkit was the it stretched you the
hardest?
I'm just curious as you as youwrestle through this, what was
the hardest areas to unpack?

Alex Kocman (16:47):
Oh that that's a great question.
I mean, uh writing anything iswork.
Um for me, I'm a creature ofhabit.
So if I don't program it intomy normal daily routine, it's
not going to happen.
So I I had to form a newroutine to hold myself
accountable to get that workdone.
Anyone who's an author willtell you uh more or less

(17:08):
something similar.
Uh I think for me, the biggestchallenge, it it didn't even
make it harder.
In a sense, it made it easier.
The the challenge was as I'mreading these things and writing
these things, am I actuallyliving this out?
Uh one of the biggest thingsthat impressed itself upon me
was from chapter one, where Paulrefers to the Church of
Philippi um as being partnerswith him, both in the his

(17:32):
imprisonment and the defense andconfirmation for the gospel.
Um, the word that he uses forfellowship there, obviously
Koinonia.
Um this is deep partnership.
This isn't just um, you know,incidental, like, hey, we're
we're workplace proximityassociates, in the words of Ron
Swanson, right?
Like this is actual deep uhconnection and synergy between

(17:53):
him and them and realizing thatthe terms, you know, defense and
confirmation of the gospel arelegal terms.
So what he's actually sayingis, hey, Philippi, while I was
on trial for my faith, while Iwas being dragged before this
magistrate and this magistrateand having to give public
testimony for why I was in thesecircumstances, you were willing

(18:15):
to be associated with me thenin those moments.
And the the challenge of justasking myself, you know, if my
pastor or if a missionary thatwe support as a church uh
suddenly, you know, stood up tothe drag queen story hour
happening down the street andfound himself in trouble with
the legal authorities in ourcity and was all over the 11

(18:39):
o'clock news.
There is that real decisionpoint of the next morning when
I'm at the water cooler at work.
Hey, you go to that church,don't you?
You know, Pastor So-and-so.
There, I have a choice ofwhether or not I want to be
associated with that gospelworker in the in his defense and
confirmation of the gospel.

(19:00):
So it's it's the challenge tome was not even just to be doing
the work of the gospel, to alsobe willing to be associated
with those that are taking thebiggest risks.
Um, you know, I say it's achallenge constantly, anyone who
preaches or teaches knows likeyou should be measuring your
life up against everything andrecognizing I fall so far short

(19:21):
of the standard uh thatscripture sets.
Um but in a in a way, uh italso made it somewhat easier um
holding yourself accountable towork through scripture in that
way, holding yourselfaccountable to to pray and apply
the text, not just to check offyour box and say, I read the
Bible today.
Um and even holding yourselfaccountable to teach it to

(19:43):
others, that really gets youinto this framework of
application, of puttingscripture to use.
And so hopefully the volume issomething that people can do
that same thing with themselves.
That's why every section endswith application, with specific
prayer points for them to takewhat they've learned and read

(20:05):
and now prayed at back to Godand hopefully call down the
grace that they need in order tobe more effective on mission
for the Lord.
But you know, it was it wasexciting, but it was a challenge
in that sense to write.

Chris Grainger (20:18):
Amen to that.
Well, you did a phenomenal jobwith it for sure, Alex.
So we're gonna take our firstbreak, guys, and come back and
keep digging in with Alex.
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lionwithin.us slash mastermind.
So that's the lionwithin.usslash mastermind to get moving
today.
So Alice, I am super curiousbecause you talk a lot about you
you even said the question, Iwrote it down when you said it
when you were writing, am Iliving it out?

(22:03):
You know, and and that rightthere where the rubber meets the
road is kind of the gap that Isee when I talk and I talk to a
lot of guys where who they areon Sunday versus who they are
the rest of the week, there'salmost like these two, you know,
two people living in, you know,uh, depending on where they're
at and what you're saying righthere, you're trying to bridge

(22:23):
that gap.
And I mean, oh at the end ofthe day, that's discipleship.
I think you and I both knowthat, but I see that as a major
gap for many churches.
So how do you see that playingout so to so far as discipleship
uh in in what you were doinghere and trying to encourage
guys to to walk that out?

Alex Kocman (22:40):
Yeah, I'll be the first to admit that I do fall
short.
Um I have gone through seasonsof my life where you know I I
was more consistent of apersonal evangelist than I am
now.
Um and part of that is theseason of life and uh the nature
of our ministry.
I'm surrounded by Christiansevery day, and of course, we've

(23:03):
got four small kids that we'rechasing all over the place.
And so um it's very easy toallow those things to stack up
and to become excuses.
Um, but but in allpracticality, um, I wrote it as
much to myself as to anyoneelse.
I need that exhortation, I needthat rebuke.
Um but I was also surprised bysome of what I read uh in the

(23:26):
book, you know.
So I've I've always rejected,for instance, the the falsified,
uh taken out of context quotefrom Saint Francis of Assisi,
you know, preach the gospel atall times, if if necessary, use
words.
Um that's not what he wrote,that's not what he meant, but
but at the same time, um youknow, Philippians has so many

(23:49):
stirring statements about uh youknow, to live as Christ, to die
is gain.
Um Paul makes it very clearthat he's living for one purpose
and one purpose only.
Um but he also does speak tothe importance of not just your
witness, but your character, youknow, the way that you're
living outside of Sundaymorning.

(24:10):
And one of the most challengingand encouraging things to me
was reading what he says inchapter two, do all things
without grumbling and disputing,that you may be blameless and
innocent children of God withoutblemish in the midst of a
crooked and twisted generationamong whom you shine as lights
in the world, holding fast tothe word of life.
So the idea of holding on uhfast, holding tightly to the

(24:35):
gospel, shining as a light, um,those are obviously things that
make us think about ourevangelistic witness.
But Paul, in one breath,associates that with uh doing
everything without grumbling andbeing blameless and innocent.
And so the the standard, Ithink, for all of us is higher

(24:56):
than we wish it were in ourflesh.
We should all be doing more forthe Lord, but also in in some
sense, if you have the HolySpirit and if you're walking by
faith each day, the standard forsome of us is lower maybe than
we realize it is.
I don't mean that that weshould be phoning it in, but you
know, the Lord's commandmentsaren't burdensome, right?
1 John 5.

(25:17):
And and even this idea herelike, do you really want to
stand out as a witness forChrist?
Um, try this.
Like, share the gospel, sure.
But you know what?
Try just not complaining, whichwhich for me is a challenge.
Um, your coworkers will noticethat that you refuse to
complain, and that will open upnatural doors of opportunity

(25:39):
asking what's different aboutyou.
You know, so so in certain youknow, respects, that God has
made it very easy for us to beabout his mission and his work.
Um, there's very simple thingswhere if we're willing to let
our daily conduct adorn thegospel the way that it should,
we're gonna find it easier toget into those gospel

(26:02):
conversations, not harder to getinto them.
Um, and that's what Paul paintsis this picture of a life that
adorns the gospel, not just abold witness in a vacuum, um,
but your whole life as witnessin addition to your words, not
shortchanging the value of wordsat all.
So, you know, there was there'smany of those practical lessons
that challenged me each daywhile I was working through

(26:25):
this.
Um, that's the challenge we allface, is not just to be Sunday
morning Christians.

Chris Grainger (26:31):
100%.
I mean, one thing that came tomind when you were talking was
you know, not complaining,obviously.
I mean, trying to bespirit-led.
And at the same time, youmentioned it earlier, a kind of
controversial topic, but like uhrighteous anger and and how so
talk to the guys out there whoare getting pretty frustrated
with what's happening.
I mean, look what happened toCharlie Kirk, what happens to

(26:54):
LGBTQ, or what it all the sexualimmorality that's out there
that now is being, you know,it's just basically we're
supposed to just accept it andmove on now.
And you know, so you you havethis command from Paul around
not complaining and you know,and and but at the same time you
see righteous anger from Christwhen he's clearing out the

(27:14):
temple.
So I mean, how do you counselguys around some of these these
topics that are hitting us everyday?
And our I mean, you got fourkids, I got four kids, you know,
and they're getting inundatedwith this stuff.
And you know, I'm trying tohelp that guy out there to go,
okay, he's telling me not tocomplain, but I feel like I need
to do something, you know.
What what's your what's yourcounseling in those moments?

Alex Kocman (27:35):
Yeah, for sure.
I think there's a hugedifference between uh it's not I
think there is, that there justis a difference between
grumbling and disputing, likePaul condemns in Philippians 2,
uh, and standing forrighteousness, especially in the
public sphere, um, which Pauldoes.

(27:56):
And Philippians isn't apolemical book.
He's he's not necessarilywriting it to address um issues.
It's mostly a letter ofencouragement, but he still
takes some bold stances.
And even in the midst of thisepistle of joy, he's still
willing to say, look out for thedogs, look out for the uh the

(28:18):
circumcision who are reallyspiritually uncircumcised.
And and then he even says, lookout for the mutilators of the
flesh.
So one of the things that weunfortunately do in evangelical
culture is uh we retreat topietism, and the ministries that

(28:38):
are built around you knowpersonal evangelism missions
tend to be a part of thatretreat to pietism as well.
We don't want to touch thingsthat are controversial, we don't
want to touch things that arepolitical.
Let's focus only on yourpersonal relationship with Jesus
and in terms of evangelism,getting more people into a
personal relationship withJesus.
Paul doesn't retreat to thatpietism at all.

(29:00):
He confronts something head-onthat he's seeing, even in the
midst of all this encouragement,he calls out people that are
mutilating the flesh.
So the parallel for that in ourday is pretty clear.
We literally have a leadershipclass that is openly, publicly
advocating for the mutilation ofthe flesh of children, of the

(29:24):
sexualization of childrenleading to the mutilation of
their flesh in the fully literalsense of that term.
We can call that out.
We can hate that.
Paul uses strong language.
He says they're enemies of thecross.
Uh their God is their belly,they glory in their shame.
Paul has no hesitation at allto use strong language to

(29:45):
condemn that.
Now, Paul hates his own sin asmuch as he hates their sin.
You know, he looks at all ofthe things that he used to
derive his sense of worth from,and he says that they're all
rubbish or scuba-on or refuse,human waste, excrement.
He uses a pretty strong wordthere.
Um he hates his own sin, but hedoesn't just stop at hating his
own sin.
Because of his love for God, healso hates the public sin

(30:08):
that's condemning his neighbor,right?
So even looking at just thisbook, never mind the example of
Christ and his boldness andturning over the tables and
those sorts of things, we canfind uh how we're supposed to
live.
There is such a thing asrighteous indignation.
Um, but with all of the lamentsthat there were around Charlie
Kirk's passing, I was I was onthe one hand encouraged to see

(30:30):
so many public evangelicalfigures be willing to
memorialize him, speakpositively of him.
Um but in another way, Chris,like how do we know we're not
just decorating the tombs of theprophets and and uh the way
that the Pharisees were, whileourselves not being willing to

(30:51):
be associated with them in life.
So it's very easy to commendsomeone like Charlie Kirk
posthumously because he was anevangelist.
But in reality, many peoplewouldn't have wouldn't have
wanted to be associated with himin life because he was too
political or too controversial.
And we have to rid ourselves ofthis idea.
That's what Paul commends thePhilippians for.

(31:13):
He says, Hey, you are willingto be associated with me.
You are with me in the defenseand confirmation of the gospel.
And yet, you know, Paul, Paulwas, yes, a gospel witness
before these Roman magistrates,but it's it's not as though he
was just standing before them umdebating justification by faith
in a in a vacuum.

(31:34):
Uh pretty often our publicwitness touches on other areas
of life that are informed by thelordship of Christ.
Like John the Baptist, youknow, he's not just preaching,
repent the kingdom of God ishere.
He's saying, Repent, you,Herod, of this specific sin of
taking this woman who isn'tyours.
Uh we have to be willing toconnect the gospel with its

(31:56):
specific implications and standon that and be associated with
other people that get in hotwater for also taking those
sorts of sorts of bold,courageous stands.
And the whole New Testament isreplete with examples of that.
It's to our own shame that wepretend we don't know how to
reconcile this idea of you knowbeing kind with righteous

(32:17):
indignation.
It's all over scripture.
You can see that balanceclearly if you're willing to see
it, and if you're willing totake that risk and potentially
alienate someone as you'restanding for truth.

Chris Grainger (32:28):
Love that.
Uh love that, Alex.
I mean, and I I think.
Like so many of the guys I'mI'm talking with now, they're
really struggling with where isthe line of being too bold
versus being too timid, youknow, and and I'm trying to
help, you know, these guys thinkthrough the different topics
and different like Charlie has atalking points.

(32:49):
I mean, he would he would hewould go to specific areas if a
topic came up, he knew exactlywhere he wanted to go.
As Christians, we have to trainourselves that way when these
topics come come up and notcower down in the and the whole,
you know, so much just tiedback to sexual immorality.
So, I mean, how do you if ifyou're working with guys and
maybe they're trying to figureout how do I take a pro-life

(33:10):
stance, you know, biblically andnot just, let's just say, just
be too abrasive out there.
I mean, I don't I don't know.
I feel like some sometimesyou've got to be abrasive and
then sometimes you gotta tell itto to to have a little bit of a
gentler hand.
So on those type of topics,what do you what do you what do
you counsel guys there with?

Alex Kocman (33:28):
Yeah.
That conversation takes a lotof different forms.
Right now, there's a clearpipeline from reality respecter
to Christianity, right?
There's people that arereturning to an understanding of
traditional um ontology.

(33:50):
What, you know, what is it,what does it even mean to be or
or to be human, um, and and toto go from that and follow that
path of valuing what's good andtrue and beautiful, and then to
find Christianity through it.
So right now we are in an agewhere um there is tact uh not
only is it good to do this ingeneral, because it's right, but

(34:12):
there's also tactical benefitto being clear, uh to being
uncompromising, unyielding, andrather than leading with um, you
know, sort of the the commonground, sometimes even leading
with the things thattraditionally would be
considered door closers.
Um, there is a certain amountof respect you can garner

(34:32):
sometimes just by being veryclear in what you believe.
Um, if a person is willing tomaintain a conversation and a
relationship with someone thatdisagrees.
Uh again, scripture models forus how we can love the
individual in front of us,recognize that the enemy is
ultimately not them, it's theunseen spiritual forces holding

(34:53):
them hostage.
Um they're a representation, amanifestation of that, but the
real enemy is not just theperson.
The enemy is the sin that isholding them down, the the
world, the flesh, and the devil.
Um Paul obviously talks aboutthat in Ephesians 6.
So Charlie Kirk models thatbeautifully.

(35:13):
Uh, he was willing to debatepolitical issues with people,
but he wasn't, especially theolder he got, um, passionate
just to stop at politics.
He wasn't going on campusesdebating what the marginal tax
rate should be.
He debated political issuesbecause he knew underneath every
political issue was a culturalissue, underneath every cultural
issue was a moral issue, andunderneath every moral issue is

(35:36):
ultimately a question of truththat scripture speaks to.
So just like you said, knowinghow to turn a conversation down
those roads, bring things intothe light of scripture, I think
it's ultimately just being veryhonest with people.
Um, I think it's speaking thetruth in love, as Paul says in
Ephesians 4.

(35:57):
And that doesn't mean that liketruth and love, this is
something else that we talkabout in striving for the faith.
So when you hear that phrasespeaking the truth in love, most
people think, okay, so there'slike a spectrum.
You know, over here is truth,over here is love, and it's the
golden mean somewhere in themiddle.
Um that's not what that says.
Speaking the truth in love.

(36:18):
So truth is what's beingdelivered.
It's it's within the context oflove.
So in reality, um, it should,it shouldn't be 50% truth, 50%
truth.
It should be all truth and alllove, or or all unashamed,
courageous truth, motivated bylove, wrapped in love.
Love can be a confrontationalat times.

(36:41):
Um, but the way that I lovesomeone most is by speaking the
truth to them, not by speakinghalf of the truth and then
seeking to sort of butter themup.
Um, so I think in general, weneed more bold truth telling in
our culture and not less.
Um, there are some idiotsonline.
There are people that are tooabrasive.

(37:02):
Um, and certainly not justonline.
Certainly, you see, you know,violence in in parts of the
country as well.
But but in general, forChristian men, our sin tends to
be that of passivity.
And that I think is the dragonto sleigh today.
And I think I would love tohave a conversation where
tomorrow we can talk about howto pull back and rein it in a
little bit.

(37:22):
But you need to have the rawmaterials first before you can
even do that.

Chris Grainger (37:28):
100%, 100%.
So look, we're gonna take abreak because I don't want to
dive into that with you a littlebit further, Alex.
If you've ever opened the Bibleand had the thought, where do I
even start?
Brother, you're not alone.
I've had those moments all toooften.
And I found that having a guidewas helpful.

(37:48):
And that's why we created theI'm just a guy series on the
Bible app.
They're short, they're honest,and they help you read scripture
and walk it out.
And these plans speak to thereal stuff that we're wrestling
with as men, like marriage,anxiety, loneliness, shame,
pornography, and so much more.

(38:10):
Now do this all withoutpretending or piling on a bunch
of self-help nonsense.
And lots of guys are using themin their small groups, and
they're helping to spark honestconversations and take simple
next steps in their discipleshipjourney.
So if that sounds helpful,check them out at
thelionwithin.us slashuversions.

(38:32):
That's Y-O-U-D-E-R-S-I-O-N.
Or just open up your Bible appand search for the Lion Within
Us.
And it's my hope that thesereflections will encourage you
in just a few minutes and helpyou walk with him all day long.
So you you mentioned spiritualpassivity, and that 100%.

(38:55):
I'm I one I'm I've gone on therecord so many times talking
about that is probably thenumber one issue with Christian
guys right now.
But my second, uh kind ofdigging on what you were talking
about, where do the where canwe go?
Well, like from the speakingjust from a church standpoint, I
have we have the lion, we gotwe have places where guys can
come have these conversations,iron sharpening iron, complex

(39:17):
topics.
You know, you can get it wrong,we can we can correct you in
truth and have those thoseconversations.
That's not a typical Sundaymorning uh you know experience
for guys as is you know, not aSunday school or even a small
group.
So much of that is fellowshipversus discipleship.
And I think we're reallydigging onto the heels of

(39:39):
discipleship here.
So I mean, where how where doyou point guys to have to be
able to get like if I want tostart hitting more homers, I
better get in a bat and cage.
You know, I'm just gonna walkup there and just crank one.
Like, I gotta have reps to getgood at this stuff.
So where can we go to havethese reps, to have these
conversations, to to challengeourselves and to be to be
sharpened?

Alex Kocman (39:59):
Yeah.
Uh one of the chapters in thebook is uh, you know, fellowship
is not just potlucking.
And that's true.
Most Sunday mornings uh tend tostop at the ladder, though.
And I'm not against potlucks.
We actually had one on Sunday,and you know, there was enough
leftovers by God's grace, likewe just finished the leftovers

(40:21):
the other day.
So I'm I'm all for potlucking,but you have to get in positions
where iron can sharpen iron.
The type of fellowship thatPaul's referring to is the
fellowship of brothers in arms,of men in the trenches in the
foxhole together in a combatscenario.
So uh that that may or may notmean that every single person is

(40:44):
uh speaking at the schoolcouncil against whatever
transgender nonsense is comingdown the line, or uh or is on
the mission field seeking toproclaim Christ for the first
time to pagans that don't knowanything about his message.
Uh, you're gonna have differentroles in the body of Christ,
uh, but there has to be thissolidarity underneath all of

(41:05):
that, where if I'm not that guy,I'm praying for that guy, I'm
in relationship with that guy,uh, maybe I'm financially
supporting that guy if there'sneed.
Maybe if he falls underscrutiny, the whole church comes
together to support him, tosupport his family, um, to pay
for his security system.
I mean, like there's there's away that uh even right now in

(41:27):
our context culturally, um, youknow, people have jobs, have
livelihoods, those sorts ofthings.
But at the end of the day, doyou have any skin in the game?
Is kind of where I want to shipthe conversation.
Uh, if you don't have any skinin the game at all, then you
need to take stock and toevaluate.
And the reality is I think toomany of us use our need to
provide for our families as anexcuse for inaction.

(41:49):
And I think we need more risktaking than that.
So, how do you get reps in?
Like I it, you know, it itcomes down to ultimately
faithfulness in the smallthings, not just the the big,
large-scale things.
So I'm in favor of, forinstance, standing before our
city council like that a fewyears ago and condemning
abortion and calling the citycouncil to repent and and to do
whatever they can to frustratethe plans of of something like

(42:12):
Planned Parenthood in theircity, um, or or to frustrate the
plans of the LGBT lobby in thecity that a few years ago was
trying to get um conversiontherapy banned in our city here,
which unfortunately they did uha few years ago.
But before I do that, honestly,this is where people will say,
you know, social media isn'treal life.

(42:33):
Um don't just, you know, poston social media all day.
Um that's true, but I will sayif you want to get a rep in,
like, figure out what youbelieve and be bold enough to
post it somewhere.
That's okay.
You can do that.
And and you can also DM someoneif you're not willing to post
that for everybody, but like,hey, man, I need to, you know,
I've I've got a I've got afriend from the gym who who is

(42:56):
homosexual, um, who's asodomite.
And I I have a greatrelationship with him.
We we uh text back and forth,and and I'll tell him, like,
man, you need to repent andtrust Jesus Christ.
And like the relationshipcontext, he knows I'm gonna tell
him that.
He expects me to tell him that.
And there's enough mutualrespect that I can get that
message across and we pray forthe time for him to repent.

(43:17):
Um, build in habits where youmake yourself uncomfortable in
little ways regularly byspeaking the truth that you
don't really want to speak, evenif it's as simple as asking
your waitress, hey, how can Ipray for you?
The fact that you feel a littlebit awkward about doing that is
proof that you need to do it.
Uh, and the more that you doit, the more you'll get used to,

(43:37):
you know, it's like it's likein in physical exercise,
progressive overload.
Uh, the more that you buildupon that, the more strength and
resolve that you'll findyourself developing.
So whether it's whether it'sposting, and actually right now,
you know, posting on X can makea great deal of impact.
You can actually steer publicpolicy that way.
It's actually crazy whatjimping out on X can do from
time to time.

(43:57):
So whether it's online, whetherit's in private conversations,
individual encounters that youhave face to face, uh, get in
the time under pressure, uh thetime under tension in those
settings so that you are readyto take those bigger public
stances if and when the timecomes for you.
And then have that deepunderlying sense of camaraderie

(44:18):
with those that are doing thework, the missionaries, the
pastors in your life, uhrecognize that you're a part of
their ministry too, throughencouraging them, through
praying for them, sacrificiallysupporting them.
Because the gospel advances notjust through you being a hero
online, being a keyboard warrioror whatever.
It advances through the wholebody of Christ striving side by

(44:40):
side together for the faith ofthe gospel, which is what Paul
says in Philippians 1.27.
Everybody's striving side byside together.

Chris Grainger (44:48):
Amen to that, Alex.
For 100%.
I mean, and for the guys outthere listening, just put you
got to get some some guys youmentioned earlier, your foxhole,
we call it your lion's den.
You got to get some guys whereyou you can have these types of
conversations as well to besharpened so that when you go
out, you're you're you're you'respreading truth, right?
Because we have to be carefulbecause if we go out there and

(45:09):
we're saying the wrong things,we can do more harm than good,
right?
Yeah.

Alex Kocman (45:13):
Yeah, for sure.
There's um there's great riskin going out unprepared.
That doesn't mean everybodyneeds a seminary degree, but but
the thing that Paul doesconfront in Philippians 3 is
people that have gotten thegospel wrong.
They're putting more stock intheir national identity or their
religious resumes than they arein the imputed righteousness of

(45:34):
Jesus Christ.
So um, you know, it's it's notgood to have knowledge but no
zeal, uh, and to be sort ofcollecting dust on a shelf
rather than in the game.
Uh, it's also not good to havezeal without knowledge and to be
out there um spreading truthbut in a sloppy fashion that's
actually alienating people.
Uh but you you do have to getout there.

(45:56):
And if someone is out there uhengaging in a in a less than
fully effective manner, youknow, God in his grace might
send an Aquila and a Priscillaalong to say, like, all right,
you know what, let me show youhow to teach the way more
accurately.
Um, and you can be an assetthere.
Um I don't like the expressionum because I don't think it's

(46:16):
it's theologically accurate.
God can do anything, he'ssovereign, but I think what it's
meant to convey is true, theexpression that God can't steer
a parked car.
Um, in a certain sense, that'strue.
The beauty of it is God God canactually direct the parked car
wherever he wants, but butsometimes you don't want him to
have to exercise that kind offorce.
Um, what what that expressionis meant to convey is like get

(46:39):
into it, get on the road, andthen expect God to direct you
one way or another.
So all things being equal, I'drather somebody be out there and
be willing to be engagingothers as they're learning than
somebody who's just going tolearn, learn, learn and never
actually engage or take a riskor talk to anyone else.

Chris Grainger (46:58):
Absolutely.
And which kind of leads me allthe way back full circle to your
book, striving.
That word striving, why'd youuse that?
I mean, that's I love the word,but I just love to hear why you
pulled, you felt like usingthat was the right one to put
for the title of the book.
Yeah.

Alex Kocman (47:15):
So Philippians 127 um is is kind of Paul's thesis
of the book.
Uh, and and that's the wordthat the ESV translates there.
And it says, Let your manner oflife be worthy of the gospel of
Christ, so that whether I comeand see you or am absent, I may
hear of you that you arestanding firm in one spirit with
one mind striving side by sidefor the faith of the gospel.

(47:37):
Verse 28, not frightened inanything by your adversaries.
So there are so many programsout there that'll teach you,
here's how to live on mission,you know, find your disciple,
make a disciple, you know, findyour three, find your six, find
your twelve.
Um, there are lots ofmethodologies.
Here's how to share the gospel,use these verses instead of

(47:58):
these verses, or use the TenCommandments.
And then that's fine.
But where this places theemphasis is much more on what
you desire, what you're pantingafter, uh, what you're
passionately pursuing.
Um, the how will follow.
But there has to be that driveand that impetus.

(48:20):
And that's what I find is mostneeded in my own life.
You know, when I go to anexcellent restaurant, uh, it
doesn't take lots of techniquefor me to start evangelizing
other people about it.
Anything that I naturallyenjoy, find valuable, find
worthy, I'm going to overflow uhin informing other people about

(48:42):
it, inviting them to experiencethat with me, because that's
how my own joy is made full andcomplete.
And the same happens withChrist.
If I am really desiring andsavoring the expansion of his
kingdom, his domain, hissovereign rule displayed visibly

(49:03):
through people coming to faith,through churches being built
up, through people living underhis lordship boldly in the face
of opposition.
If that's what juices me up,it's actually going to be very
easy for me to express that.
And then the how, you know,where there's a will, there's a
way.
Like I need the will first, andthen there can be a way to

(49:25):
that.
So that's what I was trying tocapture in that title.
I'm glad it got through.
Um, most of us don't need moretechnique, and most of us don't
need more practical helps.
Most of us just need thedriving initiative to to want
Christ's kingdom to expand.
Um, and and we're gonna havedifferent approaches to how that

(49:46):
gets done, but we need todesire that more than we desire
our own personal advancement oruh any other personal
achievements.

Chris Grainger (49:57):
Well, I I love the title.
I thought you you drilled it.
Love the book.
I tell you what, why don't wedo a little lightning round here
at the end and have some fun?
You want to do that?
Let's do it.
Awesome, awesome.
Well, what's what's the hobby?
What's something you enjoy?
Um besides chasing those fourkids around, what's a hobby you
enjoy doing for fun?

Alex Kocman (50:13):
Yeah, aside from music, which we mentioned
earlier, um, I am also a chickentender.
Uh, more accurately, my wifeis, but we've acquired eight
chickens, and I greatly enjoyhaving instant egg access, and
the kids enjoy caring for themas well.
So I am I am a suburban chickenenjoyer.

Chris Grainger (50:34):
Oh, okay.
I was gonna ask you if you'reon a farm or not.
So just be careful because wehave a farm and a homestead, and
we started with a few chickens.
I I don't know where we're upto now, 20-something chickens,
but then you know, so just becareful.
They have a way of multiplying,just got a little heads up
there.

Alex Kocman (50:48):
They they sure do.
We are we have definitely beenhomestead pilled, so look out.

Chris Grainger (50:54):
There you go.
Good luck with it.
Good luck.
So, what's what's your favoritefood, Alex?
What's your go-to there?
Favorite food?

Alex Kocman (51:02):
Oh, goodness.
Uh, great, great, great, greatquestion.
Um, I like everything.
Um this, I mean, uh, a goodrare steak is is truly uh and
and I'm not very discriminating.
I'll I'll take it in almost anyform.

(51:22):
Um, but a a good intentionallyundercooked steak is great.
Second, though, and this maybemaybe maybe disqualifies me from
being a true red-bloodedAmerican, but I'm partial to
sushi.
I'm very partial to sushi.

Chris Grainger (51:36):
Hey, you're speaking about love language
now, Alex.
I'm I'm right there with you,buddy.
That's me and my wife.
We our go-to is we're going toa sushi restaurant.

Alex Kocman (51:44):
Yeah, good.
That that's good.
My wife and I as well.
She doesn't do the raw stuff.
I do the raw stuff.
She just does the you know, theCalifornia, the whatever.
Uh, but that's all right.
We meet in the middle.
Eat that old Georgia pie.

Chris Grainger (51:56):
There you go.
There you go.
All right.
What about uh you got fourkids, so you probably watch some
some some some of thesesuperhero movies from time to
time.
If you could have a super uhhero trait, you know, a
superpower, if you will, whichone would you like to have,
Alex, and how would you use it?

Alex Kocman (52:13):
Hmm.
Wow, that's that's great.
I'll tell you, you know whatfeels like would it would be a
lot of fun um is that it's not asuperhero trait, it's a super
villain trait.
Uh in the uh the Avengers, uh,what is it?
Uh in the one before Endgame,the big two parter.

(52:33):
So is it is it infinity warcomes before that?
You know, there's this one likesorcerer that that answers to
Thanos just with the telekinesismoving things around
everywhere.
Like, there's so many timeswhere I'm stuck in traffic where
it's just like, I wish I couldjust flick my hand, levitate the
car, bounce over it.
Like that, that would be agreat, great uh uh set of powers

(52:54):
to have.
So, you know, Squidward fromwhatever that movie is.
That's that's my guy.

Chris Grainger (52:59):
There you go.
There's your guy.
So if you look back over tolast year, Alex, where did you
spend too much time?
We always like to diagnose, toreflect.
If you look back, did you wastetime anywhere?
Did you like to get back?

Alex Kocman (53:12):
Yeah, for sure.
That's that's a great question.
I for sure wasted too much timeon social media.
There's there's no doubt.
I've got I've got app limitsthat are set, and in general, I
wouldn't say I'm consumed by it,but I I just know that I I
spent too much time on it.
My my biggest mistake is islooking at it before I do other

(53:32):
important things in the morning.
And there's some days where I'mlike, nope, I'm not gonna touch
it.
Straight to the word, you know,and then there's other days
where it's like, oh, let mecheck it first, and then you
know, 20 minutes slips by.
Um, and and 20 minutes is itmakes a big difference in in
one's morning routine.
So, you know, you can pray forme and resolve, you know, with
me, you know, better timemanagement uh would be a prayer.

(53:53):
Hey, bro, I think we're allright there with you.
So thank you for being here.
And unfortunately, with my job,like I have to be on it.
So uh I I I I envy my friendswho just delete the app.
Um, if I delete the app andthen I don't see what my
organization's posting, then I'mI'm not doing my job.
So there's a happy medium inthere we've got to find.

Chris Grainger (54:13):
That's right, that's right.
You'll get there for sure.
Well, when do you think aboutGod, Alex?
What's what's your favoritething about him?
I I just love asking thisquestion just to see where
people go.

Alex Kocman (54:23):
That's a great question.
Um the very first thing thatthat that often comes to mind
for me is his assayity, um, thathe is.
He just is, he's the I am.
And even from childhood, youthink of all of the statements
that God makes about himself inscripture, that one's always
just stood out to me the mostbecause it's so haunting and

(54:47):
difficult to conceive of.
I mean, what does that evenmean?
That he is who he is.
Um the the episode of of Mosesand and the burning bush, you
know, it what like my myfavorite animated movie of all
time is The Prince of Egypt.
And I I just love you know thethe way that the the warm voice

(55:07):
of of Val Kilmer with the reverbturned all the way up just sort
of says, you know, I am that Iam.
And uh of course we know thatthe real deal is infinitely more
majestic um than that.
But um when I when I considerwho God is, um, you know,
there's there's so much inscripture about what he does,

(55:28):
you know, that he exercises loveand mercy and compassion.
And and those are, of course,everything to us.
But I I often in my mind andheart find it most helpful to
anchor myself first in who he isum uh before even thinking
about how he engages uh and andrelates to me.
And so thinking about his hisself-existence for me is huge.

Chris Grainger (55:51):
Love that, Alex.
Now let's flip it 180.
Which what's your leastfavorite thing about Satan?

Alex Kocman (55:59):
Wow, great question.
Uh my least favorite thing.
Um Wow, yeah, probably my myleast favorite thing about uh
our our ancient foe is his vilehatred for the most innocent

(56:21):
expressions of the image of God.
Um so I I mean I I guess thisis a pretty serious answer, but
it's it's not a fun question.
That's a very serious question.
Um I mean w we are up againstglobal evil taking advantage of
children, um, abusing,sexualizing them.

(56:42):
Um it's it's really difficultto grasp how much is happening
behind the scenes.
And praise God for those whodevote themselves to fighting it
and are able to pour themselvesout in that cause.
But but the the sheer uhvitriol and and completely

(57:03):
irrational hatred that thedemonic realm has um for the
innocence that you knowultimately everyone's born
sinful, like I'm a Calvinist,but but but but still the
innocence of children andwanting to take that away and
stamp it out and corrupt it, um,and and bring it down to this

(57:26):
base level.
I mean, as a father, you know,I look at my children and I I
can't comprehend the evil ofanyone that would want to do
that harm.
And then I think how much moreevil are the unseen forces that
orchestrate that uh en masse uhacross the globe.
Um, and truly like Lord comequickly, like stamp that out.

(57:50):
That um that that makes myblood boil more than anything
else.

Chris Grainger (57:58):
Well, I'm right there with you, Alex.
I mean, thank you for for forkind of going there a little bit
deeper than most guys do.
So I really appreciate that.
The last question for you whatdo you hope the listeners
remember the most from ourconversation today?

Alex Kocman (58:11):
Hmm.
You know, I thought you weregonna say like pineapples on
pizza or something like that,and kind of just hard gear shift
at the end.
No, I I would say read the bookof Philippians and just read it
uh with an open mind of how doI put it into practice?
And especially chapter one,verse 27.
Paul wants every believer inthe church to be in the trenches

(58:33):
together, striving side byside, like like an army in
formation.
Like, like think of theseancient um you know, ranks of
soldiers forming a shield walltogether.
You know, think of Braveheart.
I mean, whatever image you needto put together with that, but
that should be the church.
Don't sit on the sidelines,don't just attend.

(58:54):
Um, do everything that you canin your life to maximize that
missional solidarity with yourfellow brothers and sisters in
Christ.
Whether that means servingabroad among the nations, which
my organization, ABWE, will helpyou do, whether that just means
evangelizing your own childrenat the dinner table because

(59:14):
they're not walking with theLord or anything in between.
Um, but but dig into thatburst.
Think about the type of purposeuh that the Lord wants you to
have uh and don't waste yourlife in that respect.

Chris Grainger (59:27):
100%, Alex.
So, where do you want to sendthe listeners to connect with
you, to get the book, to followall the stuff you're doing
online as well?

Alex Kocman (59:34):
Yeah.
Um, so I serve with ABWE.
Um, so abwe.org.
Uh, we can help you take yournext steps in the Great
Commission.
My website is alexcookman.com.
From there, there's links toall my writings, podcasts.
You can buy the book.
Uh, the book is available fromFounders Press.
Um, there's also missions bythe book I've published with
them with Chad Vegas, myco-author.

(59:56):
And in January, Lord willing, anew book, Ordered to Love,
Restoring the Biblical Order ofAffections from the Home to the
Ends of the Earth.
So very excited for that.
Kind of timely look at theOrder El Morris and how that
overlays on the idea of worldmissions, or do those things
fit, or does one override theother?
Kind of an interestingexploration.

(01:00:16):
Um, and then we have a podcastas well that I host uh or
co-host rather through ABWE.
So the missions podcast everySunday night at 7 p.m.
And you can find the missionspodcast wherever good podcasts
are found.

Chris Grainger (01:00:30):
That's wonderful, Alex.
Thank you so much for sharingtoday.
Anything else you'd like toshare with our listeners?

Alex Kocman (01:00:35):
Uh go birds.
Um love my Philadelphia Eagles.
That's Solideo Gloria.
That's all I got.
You wrung me dry, Chris.
This was a great interview.
Thank you so much for thechance to be here and cover a
wide range of topics.

Chris Grainger (01:00:51):
Well, Alex, the pleasure is all mine.
Thank you so much, and I hopeyou have a wonderful day.
Yeah, Lord bless.
Thank you.
All right, guys.
I told you that was going to bea fun one.
So thank you so much, Alex, foragain for coming and sharing.
Hopefully, you guys got somegood encouragement as well as
maybe some ideas on how to leanin.
Again, the question of the weekthis week is where are you
clinging to control instead ofsurrendering?

(01:01:13):
Like some things in life,fellas, we just gonna have to
learn how to let go of.
And some of it, but we justneed to turn it completely, not
some of it, all of it, we justneed to turn over completely to
God.
And then at some point, when hegives us that conviction, that
stirs us up.
That's when we should takeaction.
Okay.
So thank you guys, you know,again, so much for listening.
Hopefully you enjoyed this onewith Alex.
Go check out all the work thathe's doing.

(01:01:35):
And again, thelionwithin.us iswhere you can connect with the
work that we're doing to serve.
Maybe if you want to check usout on the Bible app, if you
want to check us out our dailyspiritual kickoff, if you want
to join our community, if youwant to consider our leadership
mastermind and see if you'd be agood fit for that.
We have lots of ways we engageguys on a regular basis.
You can check out our book, youcan check out, I'll tell you,

(01:01:55):
Bible studies, all the stuffthat we've written, fellas, just
to get out there and serve you.
Okay.
And some of the stuff you maybe finding interesting that it
could serve you and your localmen's group, whatever group
you're a part of, lots of thoseguys are finding that they can
take our resources that we'vebuilt and utilize them with
their group.
So we really want you to dothat.
I mean, we want you to be ableto do that, to have these

(01:02:15):
conversations, to forceengagement, to kind of push you
into the point where you want toreally lean in.
So find all that stuff, fellas,at thelionwithin.us.
All right.
Well, give us a rating review.
Come back on Friday, we'll havesome fun Friday tips for you.
And other than that, you knowwhat's coming right.
Keep unleashing the lionwithin.
Trying to find genuineresources to help grow

(01:02:38):
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At least it was for me.
For the longest time, thesupport that I was looking for
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And at the same time, God wasleading me to take action.
That's why we built the LionWithin Us Community, which is
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(01:03:01):
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(01:03:23):
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(01:03:43):
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Start your free trial.

(01:04:04):
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