Are Christians Warmongers? When War Is Just. Seeking Peace & Not Conquest – Highlight Episode 345

Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar sit down to tackle a weighty and nuanced topic: war. This discussion isn’t about political sides—it’s about wrestling with the moral, spiritual, and personal implications of warfare in a fallen world. Oscar reflects on how perspectives on war evolve over time. He urges caution against jumping into the hype, especially as Christians. People on every side are made in the image of God. War isn’t something to relish. Mark agrees that war is never ideal, but believes it can be justified in certain cases. He points to Scripture and historical examples, including David and Nehemiah, as men who carried weapons while remaining faithful to God. He notes that sometimes war is necessary to establish peace and protect the innocent.

The conversation explores the difference between civil and governmental responsibilities, along with the historic Christian approach to violence. The early church leaned toward pacifism, yet history shows that wasn’t a universal stance. Oscar introduces just war theory, grounded in principles like self-defense, proportional response, and the avoidance of cruelty. Just war never glorifies violence—it permits it under strict moral limitations.

Would a preemptive strike against a hostile nation be justified if credible threats were discovered? Mark believes that standing against tyranny can be an act of love toward one’s neighbor. Oscar, however, questions whether such actions always align with just war principles. He points to past U.S. actions—like the tragic downing of a civilian plane—as reminders of how quickly moral clarity can blur. E.Z. underscores the danger of biased media by comparing contradictory headlines from CNN and Fox News, reminding listeners to seek truth from multiple sources. Ray shares how he deliberately checks both conservative and liberal news sources to challenge his own assumptions. 

Oscar shifts the conversation to the spiritual aspect of war—reminding listeners that violence is a consequence of sin. Defensive war may sometimes be necessary, but it must always be a last resort. Believers are called to be peacemakers because God made peace with them. Mark closes with a powerful story of the Christmas Day truce in World War I. For a brief moment, enemies laid down their weapons in recognition of something greater than the battle. The guys challenge listeners to do the same—raising hands in prayer instead of fists in anger. Scripture urges believers to love peace and pursue it. Before taking sides, one must ask: is there a heart that grieves the loss of life, or one that revels in destruction?

Send us a text

Thanks for listening! If you’ve been helped by this podcast, we’d be grateful if you’d consider subscribing, sharing, and leaving us a comment and 5-star rating!

Visit the Living Waters website to learn more and to access helpful resources!
You can find helpful counseling resources at biblicalcounseling.com.
Check out The Evidence Study Bible and the Basic Training Course.

You can connect with us at [e-mail]. We're thankful for your input!
Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right friends.
Today we're talking about is itwrong for Christians to support
war.
I'm so glad that we'readdressing subjects like this.
Recently we talked about thedeath penalty, and I think
that's good.
We need to discuss things likethat, and I think one of the
things that people appreciatedwas that in that episode in

(00:23):
particular and we do this allthe time we share the fact that
we may have different views onthings, but that's the beauty of
the body of Christ.
You know that when it comes tosecondary issues, there can be
charity in that, there can belatitude where we say, look,
this is not an essential issue.
We may hold our viewstenaciously and feel strongly
about them, but there has to bea grace that's involved to say,

(00:44):
look, these are not essentials.
And so, while we can evendebate them and, you know, in a
spirited way, at the end of theday we need to have that
gracious heart and attitude.
And we've talked before aboutpacifism on the, or self-defense
rather, but we want to, youknow, talk and we can talk about
things related to it, but wewant to talk about war because

(01:05):
it's a big thing and it's animportant topic to tackle.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's important to just recognize.
In the first 300 years there isthis instinct against bloodshed
, say the church was totallyagainst war.
Because again you also haveexamples of people in the early
church praying for positiveoutcomes and participating in

(01:29):
non-combatant ways.
Something different happenspost-Nicene shift, remember.
Christianity becomes a statereligion in 380 through the
edict of Thessalonica.
And now the church is grapplingwith the ability to have power
and what it looks like topreserve Christian virtue and

(01:54):
enter Augustine's theory of justwar.
Henry Chadwick summarizesAugustine's just war theory and
a lot of people will sayAugustine's laid out these three
or four or five criteria.
It actually wasn't Augustine,it was Henry Chadwick that
summarizes Augustine.
He says basically, just warmeans self-defense or recovery

(02:15):
of stolen property.
Its aim is always peace, notconquest or revenge.
It's always proportional inforce, it has a respect for
humanity and avoids humiliation.
And we should always preservethe idea of prisoners of war.
In other words, we need toprotect the rights even when

(02:38):
they are our enemies.
So to summarize, the idea ofgust war permits war but never
glorifies it.
It recognizes it as alwaysbeing tragic and it limits its
reason to go to war.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
I love that Oscar.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Very good.
I look at some of the things inthe Old Testament, some of the
wars, and I can't justify them.
They're pretty bloodthirsty,you know, hacking someone to
death in war with a sword.
If I was there I'd probablyjust go for a long walk or
something.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Elijah hacking Agag.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
That's what I was thinking of and that's because
that's probably what he saidwhen it happened, agag.
Anyway, atheists will oftenpoint to God as being a
warmonger in the Old Testamentand say God told Joshua to kill
all the Canaanites.
And there's a good comeback toatheists when they say that.
You just say to them did thisactually happen?
And they say yes, so you'resaying the Bible's right.

(03:36):
And they say no, it didn'thappen.
So what are you worried aboutthen?
Just like getting upset becauseCinderella's coach turned into
a pumpkin at midnight.
If it didn't happen, don't get.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
Francis Schaeffer.
He said to fail to standagainst tyranny is to fail to
love your neighbor.
Spurgeon, a time will come whenpeace means cowardice and war
means righteousness.
I'm not needing to make thesedecisions, though.
Right, so, because I'm not ableto make these decisions, all I

(04:11):
know is these little 30-secondsnippet, instagram newsreels,
which is, by and large, wherepeople get their news right.
I was surprised to see Tuckerinterview Ted Cruz concerning
this.
I don't know if you saw that,but there was fireworks amongst
the two and I thought I thoughtyou were on the same side.

(04:33):
Am I that far removed now towhat is happening?
So, bottom line for me, I thinkthat there are times when war
is justifiable.
Right, and you had asked me thequestion.
If somebody breaks into myhouse, let me quote a verse,
exodus 22,.
If a thief is found breaking inand is struck so that he dies,

(04:53):
there shall be no blood guiltfor him.
Ray saying if he had a real gun, he would start at the foot and
work his way up.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Did you know that?

Speaker 4 (05:04):
He has to aim up at the foot.
Sometimes fighting for peacemeans fighting period.
That's what Mel Gibson said,right?
Listen, we just got to becareful in the midst of this.
This is why it is so importantto pray for our governmental
leaders that God puts people inplace, and for you not to vote,
whoever you are, is a terribleact let me take it a step

(05:28):
further of treason towards yourgovernment.
Right that we have the abilityto put people in place.
That is how God workssupernaturally, in a very
natural way, 10,000 lives thatwere given in World War II.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
and at the bottom it says here we mark the price of
freedom.
I mean, sometimes it's easy forus to walk around and say, oh
you know, forget war, this andthat, like those that are like
hardcore pacifists and they'reliving in the benefits of those
that went to war to defend us.
So what do you think ofsomething like World War II?
Should the United States havegotten involved?

Speaker 2 (06:02):
I think the United States should have gotten
involved sooner than what theydid.
They were isolationists, butthey were provoked to be
isolationists by people who hadbeen placed by the enemy within
America.
Fifth columnists, I think theywere called, where they would
cause strikes and all sorts ofthings to try and bring the
nation down or create confusion.
Yeah, I just can't help butthink 50 million people like us

(06:25):
four guys died in that war.
Why?
Because some little twit thatlooked like Charlie Chaplin
decided he wanted to rule theworld.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
Just because of that, it's just absolutely crazy.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
This whole world's a tinderbox.
I am a fan of Fox, but Ideliberately go across to CNN
regularly so I get a balance,because I know Fox know their
customs customers yeah, theyknow their base, and their whole
thing is pump Trump, and we'llget a good bottom line.

(06:59):
And CNN say dump Trump, we'llget a good bottom line.
And so that's why mark is soright about just being careful
what you listen to, because youcan Be shaped by what you listen
to.
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
I found this online.
I think it was a really goodsummation.
It's when war may be justified,when war is unjustified.
So when war may be justified,defensive war, protecting
citizens from aggression,justice for the oppressed.
When diplomacy fails, resistingevil, preventing genocide or
tyranny and upholding order,maintaining a lawful society.
And then, when war isunjustified, greed, conquest,

(07:32):
revenge, religious coercion, adisregard for civilians or
unjust, targeting nationalismelevated above God's word.
That's huge and disobedience toGod's moral law in battle.
In terms of the just wardoctrine by Augustine and then
Aquinas, augustine so just cause, which is to stop real evil,

(07:52):
genocide, invasion.
Proper authority declared by alegitimate government, right
intention, goal must be peace,not conquest.
Last resort.
All options must be exhausted.
I think that's an important one.
Has diplomacy been given a shot?
Proportionality, force must bemeasured, not excessive.
And then discriminationcivilians and non-combatants
must be protected.

(08:13):
So we need to remember we havethe power that raised Jesus from
the dead dwelling in us and man.
We need to make peace with ourbrethren.
We need to go the extra mile.
We need to be at peace with allmen.
As far as it depends on us.
We need to remember that.
We need to keep that in mindand, I hope, in light of what we

(08:33):
talked about in terms of ouroutlook and perspective on war,
that we check our hearts.
Do we glory in it?
Do we find glee and like, ohyeah, it's great, versus
thinking about what that meansHuman lives being destroyed,
oftentimes for foolish reasons.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
In Psalms God condemns those who delight in
war.
Amen.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Thank you for tuning in to this week's highlights
from the Living Waters podcast.
Friends, we value your time, sowe've created a bite-sized
version of our podcast forlisteners who want to get
equipped.
Without the jokes andfellowship.
Be sure to check out the fullepisode every Thursday where we
dive deeper into the topic.
Until then, you can watch thefull podcast episode available

(09:19):
now on livingwaterstv.