August 5, 2025 • 13 mins
What if the root of your struggle isn’t in your brain but in your heart? In this compelling conversation, Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar are joined by Greg to explore how biblical counseling offers a radically different framework from modern psychology—one that places Scripture, not the self, at its center. Greg explains how the common confusion between the brain and the mind has led to a medicalized approach that often masks rather than heals the deeper issues of the soul. The group discusses how biblical counseling aims to reach the heart, highlighting the need for repentance, the purpose of shame, and the importance of viewing emotions and suffering through a gospel lens. They also examine the limitations of secular diagnoses, the dangers of over-relying on medication, and how expressive individualism has infiltrated both therapy and the church. Listeners are encouraged to seek wise, theologically grounded counsel that doesn’t affirm every feeling but lovingly redirects hearts back to the sufficiency of God’s Word and the hope only found in Christ.
Thanks for listening! If you’ve been helped by this podcast, we’d be grateful if you’d consider subscribing, sharing, and leaving us a comment and 5-star rating!
Visit the Living Waters website to learn more and to access helpful resources!
You can find helpful counseling resources at biblicalcounseling.com.
Check out The Evidence Study Bible and the Basic Training Course.
You can connect with us at podcast@livingwaters.com. We're thankful for your input!
Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Greg, brother, we're blessed to have you with us, man
, so encouraged by what theLord's been doing in and through
your life.
You've been working again withFortis for a long time the
Transform podcast, thetelevision series that you do,
which includes counseling people.
You're the chair of the Schoolof Biblical Studies at the
Masters University, fellow atthe Fortis Institute and you
pastor.
(00:20):
You counsel, man.
You do a lot of stuff.
You served in the military too.
Sure, yeah, today we're going tobe talking about the unbiblical
errors of psychiatry andpsychology, and this is sparked
by an amazing, amazing book youwrote Lies.
My Therapist Told Me whyChristians Should Aim for More
Than Just Treating Symptoms.
This is a phenomenal book.
(00:42):
Someone in one of theendorsements, I think, said that
they thought this is going tokind of be the authoritative
work on this subject, and Ireally think it is going to be.
I was encouraged, I waspersonally edified, especially,
man, that last chapter aboutChrist.
I mean, I was reading it andjust worshiping the Lord, and so
we're excited to have you withus.
Tell us what's been behind thebook and how it's been doing so
(01:05):
far.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
You just look behind the book.
It's on the back.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Your name is behind the book.
No, it was a.
I mean, honestly, as acounselor, there's always a
bunch of methods that seem odd,things that come up, and
sometimes, as a Christian, it'sjust like I don't know if these
things are actually dealing withthe root of the issue.
So, instead of just critiquingall those downstream things, it
was really the beginning of metrying to figure out why, as
(01:31):
Christians, do we use those?
What's happening?
Are those things reallytreating the root of the cause?
And that's where the book camein, where I wanted to help speak
to.
What are the ideas behindmodern day therapy secular,
secular psychology, psychiatryand are they really helping us
or are they making things worse?
So, like that's how thetrajectory started and that was
probably three years ago.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Just starting to think that through and do that
research you know, when we talkabout counseling right, it kind
of falls into many differentsorts of categories.
But here in particular, maybeyou can give a working
definition of what does it meanto have biblical counseling
right?
I have a Christian friend whogrew up in a homosexual
(02:12):
lifestyle and when he became aChristian he still had these
temptations.
He thought that they wouldmagically kind of fall apart and
go away.
And he had a Christiancounselor come to him and say
hey, every time you're tempted,I want you to smell this bag of
dog feces, and then you canrelate the two together.
And he said it just grossed meout.
He ended up walking away fromthe Christian faith.
But when we talk about biblicalcounseling, talk about
(02:35):
integration, define it for us.
Where do we start?
Sure, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Big picture.
Biblical counseling is tryingto use the Bible as the
authority and the source, theauthority and the source.
So it's not just that we'resaying, well, we're going to use
a proverb here and there youguys know Dave Ramsey, you know
Financial Peace He'll take oneproverb and frame this whole
methodology off that one proverb.
We're not trying to do that.
We're trying to say let's thinkabout people through the lens
(03:01):
of Scripture, let's think abouttheir problems through the lens
of Scripture, let's think aboutthe solutions to their problems
through the lens of Scripture.
And honestly, as anthropologygoes, so goes all of the rest
your care for people, thesolutions you would offer them.
So it's biblical counseling.
It's not trying to claim itsown jurisdiction, it's just
trying to help people from theauthoritative and sufficient
(03:23):
Word of God.
I mean, that's really the endof it.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
I think the state of mental health in the United
States is in such a tippingpoint right now and there's not
very many places where peoplecan turn.
Sure, you can, you can.
You've seen this.
I mean, you know, if you turnto modern therapy, to your point
, like the, the DMR, which isthe book therapists use, it
basically encourages them toaffirm and pursue whatever
(03:49):
feeling they find inside ofthemselves.
To your point earlier, there'sno authority in God, it's only
authority in your own heart.
In other words, if you're aChristian and you walk into a
modern therapy office and yousay I've got these inner
feelings, same-sex attraction,they will say okay's, let's help
you come to peace with that.
There's no authority outside ofyour inner desire.
(04:11):
If you go in there and you sayI want to divorce my spouse and
leave my children, okay, I willhelp you come to terms with that
decision and communicate thatto your family.
That's ultimately what moderntherapy will drive you to,
because there's no ruddersteering the ship.
There's no ultimate authoritybeyond my inner feelings and
desires.
(04:31):
But let me turn the mirror alittle bit and say also so many
churches and pastors areunderprepared and are not
equipped to have these kind ofimportant conversations as well.
I've seen a pastor where theygot this book that was written
in the 80s and it was like hewould prescribe out of context
(04:52):
Bible verses oh, you'redepressed.
Here is your Bible verse Go, bedepressed no more.
And they don't have the toolsand resources to actually walk
people through some of this.
And the kicker is thatsometimes people would walk away
feeling shamed, as though ifI'm depressed it can only be
that I'm in sin, not recognizingthe scriptures invitation to
(05:14):
understand suffering in the waythat some of us will have,
suffering that is given to us bythe Lord.
And so how?
I guess the question is likewhere do we go?
How does the average personwho's maybe listening to this
going?
Okay, well, I don't want to goto my psychiatrist, but I can't
go to a therapist and my pastordoesn't seem to have answers for
me.
(05:34):
What do they do?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think that's a win because they're asking and
they're open to what God's wordmight say first of all.
And so it's kind of a failureon our part if we say, well,
don't go to a therapist, but wehave no one for you to go to.
It's like, oh great, well, Igot to go to my therapist.
Biblical counseling is its ownfield now and that means that
there are counselors, resources,training centers, all of that
(05:56):
that correspond to that field.
It is a growing field.
I think you could trace it backto the 60s, 60s, early 70s.
So that means that it hasrefinements that need to take
place, or it means that thereare people that need to grow in
nuance and understandingsuffering versus sin, like those
things exist.
But if someone's watching thisor listening to this, biblical
counselingcom is where I wouldstart, which is the association
(06:18):
of certified biblical counselors, and the certified really
matters because it's not justsomeone who has a good heart,
but it's someone who's actuallygone through training.
They've been evaluated andsupervised in that process of
counseling.
So if, if you're stuck andlistening to this
biblicalcounselingcom, find acounselor and look for those
resources, that's the, that'sthe next step.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, greg.
What are some of the red?
I know you touched on itslightly before the following
the finger.
What are some of the red flagsthat people should look for when
it comes to someone counselingthem?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, I would really, really, really be guarded
against going to an unbelieverfirst of all to get help with
your mind, because here's whatwe're practically saying.
They've done years of training,but it's in humanistic
psychology, it's in Rogeriancounseling, it's in some
man-centered therapy, thatunbeliever doesn't believe in
(07:12):
the soul, immaterial person,afterlife, jesus, doesn't
understand the basic purpose oflife to glorify God and enjoy
Him forever.
And now I'm going to go to themand bear my life before them
and get life advice from them.
So I think honestly, if aperson's not a Christian, we're
doing our best not to go to them.
We're looking for at least aChristian counselor or therapist
(07:35):
.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Blessed is the man who walks, not on the counsel of
the ungodly.
A lot of people are told theyhave mental disease because
they're depressed.
Do you think it's legitimate totell someone they are mentally
unstable because they'redepressed?
And the reason I'm asking thatis we've got a lot to be
depressed about in this worldand I think someone who's
depressed is sane becausethey're thinking about the fact
(07:55):
they're going to die, they'regoing to lose their loved ones,
the whole world's in a mess andthere's a lot of reasons to be
depressed.
And the same people that saydepression is a mental disease
say something like 300 millionpeople in the world have got
depression, so they've gotmental disease right, which puts
the whole human race in a messright.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
yeah, it's hard to define what a mental disease is,
even by the secular therapeutic.
So it's there's.
There's no objective line ofwhen you have it and when you
don't.
We can't do a scan of yourbrain, we can't do blood work.
What you're going to do isverbally describe your symptoms
and a psychologist sometimesgeneral practitioners, or a
(08:35):
psychiatrist.
They will diagnose you basedoff your symptoms.
So is that person mentallyunstable?
We can't define what mentallyunstable is if we're using the
secular therapeutic excuse meterminology.
So that's the real issue.
So what happens is thediagnosis grows because there's
no objective way to verify youhave it and there's no objective
(08:56):
way to verify you don't have it.
So, but I want to keep addingthat caveat of you can be sad
and not have a mental disease.
So don't hear me say there's nosuch thing as depression.
But I am saying there's noobjective way to verify you have
depression and that's why thediagnosis keeps growing.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And there's one way to add to someone's depression
is to tell them they're mentalon top of their depression.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
And there's no cure, yeah yeah, other than
psychotropics andantidepressants.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Would you've got symptoms that are worse than the
disease often?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
What role does medication?
I remember reading inside yourbook about the missionary family
, you know, and the mother waslike going insane.
What is there a balance here?
And I know that I'm opening upa can of worms here talking
about the medication side of it,but Sure, those are.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I mean, those are the questions everybody's asking
Like so are you saying it'swrong to take an antidepressant
and the answer is no?
We are not saying that.
What I'm saying is that theantidepressant is treating your
body when it may actually be amental issue.
So if the mind is immaterial,there is no pill that you're
going to take that's going tochange your mind.
(09:58):
Easy example we would pay goodmoney for a pill that would give
us pure thoughts, but itdoesn't exist and it will never
exist, because pills cannotchange your heart, your inner
person or your mind.
So what are those pills doing?
Helping you manage symptomslike Tylenol?
Tylenol has a place, butTylenol can actually create more
problems for you if you're notdealing with the root of the
(10:20):
issue.
So we don't want to feel betterif we're in hardened,
unrepentant sin with the root ofthe issue.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
So we don't want to feel better if we're in hardened
, unrepentant sin Like so.
Headaches are not caused from alack of Tylenol, right?
Right Is basically the pointhere, right?
So when you medicate andthere's no real diagnosis
happening and most medicine istreating a symptom, not the
actual problem, I think that wehave the ability to take this
easy way out.
Right, when we think thatChristians come along and they
say I believe the Bible is true.
(10:46):
However, there's some practicalsteps, you know, maybe things
become pragmatic and this justhelps me to move forward.
And then we have another issueof we're not bearing one
another's burdens and we're not,you know, I guess, just
fighting through what we'regoing through, right?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
right To your point.
Medical doctors should bepursued and we should test for
any reason why there might be amedical issue going on, why I
feel the way I do.
But if there's no medicalreason, then we should at least
be open to what's going on in myinner person that's encouraging
these outer man symptoms.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
in all fairness, yeah , and at the end of the day, it
always comes down to authority.
I mean, we're either going tolean on man himself being the
final authority on all thingsthat relate to life and the
foundations of the world inwhich we live, or we're going to
(11:40):
rely on the authority of God'sWord.
I mean, that's it, and I lovesimplicity.
You know we have those twooptions and it's one or the
other every single time, andit's sad to me.
I think that people don't thinkin that way.
One of the questions I've beenasking people I mentioned on the
podcast is who's the mostsignificant human being that has
(12:00):
ever lived that has mostimpacted the world?
Almost everyone says Jesus, andthen I asked him what is the
most impactful book in all ofhistory, the most printed, the
most read, the most translated,the most purchased?
The Bible.
I say, man, if Jesus is themost significant person that's
ever lived the Bible is the mostimportant book, the greatest
(12:20):
book ever written then wouldn'tyou be wise to say who is Jesus
and what does His Word say?
And so it's sad that a lot ofChristians even don't recognize
that, but they're going to theworld not realizing that they
are, in a sense, helping toverify it.
Quote as an authority.
And that's tragic.
Thank you for tuning in to thisweek's highlights from the
(12:43):
Living Waters podcast.
Friends, we value your time, sowe've created a bite-sized
version of our podcast forlisteners who want to get
equipped.
Without the jokes andfellowship.
Be sure to check out the fullepisode every Thursday where we
dive deeper into the topic.
Until then, you can watch thefull podcast episode available
now on livingwaterstv.
Greg, brother, we're blessed to have you with us, man
, so encouraged by what theLord's been doing in and through
your life.
You've been working again withFortis for a long time the
Transform podcast, thetelevision series that you do,
which includes counseling people.
You're the chair of the Schoolof Biblical Studies at the
Masters University, fellow atthe Fortis Institute and you
pastor.
(00:20):
You counsel, man.
You do a lot of stuff.
You served in the military too.
Sure, yeah, today we're going tobe talking about the unbiblical
errors of psychiatry andpsychology, and this is sparked
by an amazing, amazing book youwrote Lies.
My Therapist Told Me whyChristians Should Aim for More
Than Just Treating Symptoms.
This is a phenomenal book.
(00:42):
Someone in one of theendorsements, I think, said that
they thought this is going tokind of be the authoritative
work on this subject, and Ireally think it is going to be.
I was encouraged, I waspersonally edified, especially,
man, that last chapter aboutChrist.
I mean, I was reading it andjust worshiping the Lord, and so
we're excited to have you withus.
Tell us what's been behind thebook and how it's been doing so
(01:05):
far.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
You just look behind the book.
It's on the back.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Your name is behind the book.
No, it was a.
I mean, honestly, as acounselor, there's always a
bunch of methods that seem odd,things that come up, and
sometimes, as a Christian, it'sjust like I don't know if these
things are actually dealing withthe root of the issue.
So, instead of just critiquingall those downstream things, it
was really the beginning of metrying to figure out why, as
(01:31):
Christians, do we use those?
What's happening?
Are those things reallytreating the root of the cause?
And that's where the book camein, where I wanted to help speak
to.
What are the ideas behindmodern day therapy secular,
secular psychology, psychiatryand are they really helping us
or are they making things worse?
So, like that's how thetrajectory started and that was
probably three years ago.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Just starting to think that through and do that
research you know, when we talkabout counseling right, it kind
of falls into many differentsorts of categories.
But here in particular, maybeyou can give a working
definition of what does it meanto have biblical counseling
right?
I have a Christian friend whogrew up in a homosexual
(02:12):
lifestyle and when he became aChristian he still had these
temptations.
He thought that they wouldmagically kind of fall apart and
go away.
And he had a Christiancounselor come to him and say
hey, every time you're tempted,I want you to smell this bag of
dog feces, and then you canrelate the two together.
And he said it just grossed meout.
He ended up walking away fromthe Christian faith.
But when we talk about biblicalcounseling, talk about
(02:35):
integration, define it for us.
Where do we start?
Sure, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Big picture.
Biblical counseling is tryingto use the Bible as the
authority and the source, theauthority and the source.
So it's not just that we'resaying, well, we're going to use
a proverb here and there youguys know Dave Ramsey, you know
Financial Peace He'll take oneproverb and frame this whole
methodology off that one proverb.
We're not trying to do that.
We're trying to say let's thinkabout people through the lens
(03:01):
of Scripture, let's think abouttheir problems through the lens
of Scripture, let's think aboutthe solutions to their problems
through the lens of Scripture.
And honestly, as anthropologygoes, so goes all of the rest
your care for people, thesolutions you would offer them.
So it's biblical counseling.
It's not trying to claim itsown jurisdiction, it's just
trying to help people from theauthoritative and sufficient
(03:23):
Word of God.
I mean, that's really the endof it.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
I think the state of mental health in the United
States is in such a tippingpoint right now and there's not
very many places where peoplecan turn.
Sure, you can, you can.
You've seen this.
I mean, you know, if you turnto modern therapy, to your point
, like the, the DMR, which isthe book therapists use, it
basically encourages them toaffirm and pursue whatever
(03:49):
feeling they find inside ofthemselves.
To your point earlier, there'sno authority in God, it's only
authority in your own heart.
In other words, if you're aChristian and you walk into a
modern therapy office and yousay I've got these inner
feelings, same-sex attraction,they will say okay's, let's help
you come to peace with that.
There's no authority outside ofyour inner desire.
(04:11):
If you go in there and you sayI want to divorce my spouse and
leave my children, okay, I willhelp you come to terms with that
decision and communicate thatto your family.
That's ultimately what moderntherapy will drive you to,
because there's no ruddersteering the ship.
There's no ultimate authoritybeyond my inner feelings and
desires.
(04:31):
But let me turn the mirror alittle bit and say also so many
churches and pastors areunderprepared and are not
equipped to have these kind ofimportant conversations as well.
I've seen a pastor where theygot this book that was written
in the 80s and it was like hewould prescribe out of context
(04:52):
Bible verses oh, you'redepressed.
Here is your Bible verse Go, bedepressed no more.
And they don't have the toolsand resources to actually walk
people through some of this.
And the kicker is thatsometimes people would walk away
feeling shamed, as though ifI'm depressed it can only be
that I'm in sin, not recognizingthe scriptures invitation to
(05:14):
understand suffering in the waythat some of us will have,
suffering that is given to us bythe Lord.
And so how?
I guess the question is likewhere do we go?
How does the average personwho's maybe listening to this
going?
Okay, well, I don't want to goto my psychiatrist, but I can't
go to a therapist and my pastordoesn't seem to have answers for
me.
(05:34):
What do they do?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think that's a win because they're asking and
they're open to what God's wordmight say first of all.
And so it's kind of a failureon our part if we say, well,
don't go to a therapist, but wehave no one for you to go to.
It's like, oh great, well, Igot to go to my therapist.
Biblical counseling is its ownfield now and that means that
there are counselors, resources,training centers, all of that
(05:56):
that correspond to that field.
It is a growing field.
I think you could trace it backto the 60s, 60s, early 70s.
So that means that it hasrefinements that need to take
place, or it means that thereare people that need to grow in
nuance and understandingsuffering versus sin, like those
things exist.
But if someone's watching thisor listening to this, biblical
counselingcom is where I wouldstart, which is the association
(06:18):
of certified biblical counselors, and the certified really
matters because it's not justsomeone who has a good heart,
but it's someone who's actuallygone through training.
They've been evaluated andsupervised in that process of
counseling.
So if, if you're stuck andlistening to this
biblicalcounselingcom, find acounselor and look for those
resources, that's the, that'sthe next step.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, greg.
What are some of the red?
I know you touched on itslightly before the following
the finger.
What are some of the red flagsthat people should look for when
it comes to someone counselingthem?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, I would really, really, really be guarded
against going to an unbelieverfirst of all to get help with
your mind, because here's whatwe're practically saying.
They've done years of training,but it's in humanistic
psychology, it's in Rogeriancounseling, it's in some
man-centered therapy, thatunbeliever doesn't believe in
(07:12):
the soul, immaterial person,afterlife, jesus, doesn't
understand the basic purpose oflife to glorify God and enjoy
Him forever.
And now I'm going to go to themand bear my life before them
and get life advice from them.
So I think honestly, if aperson's not a Christian, we're
doing our best not to go to them.
We're looking for at least aChristian counselor or therapist
(07:35):
.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Blessed is the man who walks, not on the counsel of
the ungodly.
A lot of people are told theyhave mental disease because
they're depressed.
Do you think it's legitimate totell someone they are mentally
unstable because they'redepressed?
And the reason I'm asking thatis we've got a lot to be
depressed about in this worldand I think someone who's
depressed is sane becausethey're thinking about the fact
(07:55):
they're going to die, they'regoing to lose their loved ones,
the whole world's in a mess andthere's a lot of reasons to be
depressed.
And the same people that saydepression is a mental disease
say something like 300 millionpeople in the world have got
depression, so they've gotmental disease right, which puts
the whole human race in a messright.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
yeah, it's hard to define what a mental disease is,
even by the secular therapeutic.
So it's there's.
There's no objective line ofwhen you have it and when you
don't.
We can't do a scan of yourbrain, we can't do blood work.
What you're going to do isverbally describe your symptoms
and a psychologist sometimesgeneral practitioners, or a
(08:35):
psychiatrist.
They will diagnose you basedoff your symptoms.
So is that person mentallyunstable?
We can't define what mentallyunstable is if we're using the
secular therapeutic excuse meterminology.
So that's the real issue.
So what happens is thediagnosis grows because there's
no objective way to verify youhave it and there's no objective
(08:56):
way to verify you don't have it.
So, but I want to keep addingthat caveat of you can be sad
and not have a mental disease.
So don't hear me say there's nosuch thing as depression.
But I am saying there's noobjective way to verify you have
depression and that's why thediagnosis keeps growing.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And there's one way to add to someone's depression
is to tell them they're mentalon top of their depression.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
And there's no cure, yeah yeah, other than
psychotropics andantidepressants.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Would you've got symptoms that are worse than the
disease often?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
What role does medication?
I remember reading inside yourbook about the missionary family
, you know, and the mother waslike going insane.
What is there a balance here?
And I know that I'm opening upa can of worms here talking
about the medication side of it,but Sure, those are.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I mean, those are the questions everybody's asking
Like so are you saying it'swrong to take an antidepressant
and the answer is no?
We are not saying that.
What I'm saying is that theantidepressant is treating your
body when it may actually be amental issue.
So if the mind is immaterial,there is no pill that you're
going to take that's going tochange your mind.
(09:58):
Easy example we would pay goodmoney for a pill that would give
us pure thoughts, but itdoesn't exist and it will never
exist, because pills cannotchange your heart, your inner
person or your mind.
So what are those pills doing?
Helping you manage symptomslike Tylenol?
Tylenol has a place, butTylenol can actually create more
problems for you if you're notdealing with the root of the
(10:20):
issue.
So we don't want to feel betterif we're in hardened,
unrepentant sin with the root ofthe issue.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
So we don't want to feel better if we're in hardened
, unrepentant sin Like so.
Headaches are not caused from alack of Tylenol, right?
Right Is basically the pointhere, right?
So when you medicate andthere's no real diagnosis
happening and most medicine istreating a symptom, not the
actual problem, I think that wehave the ability to take this
easy way out.
Right, when we think thatChristians come along and they
say I believe the Bible is true.
(10:46):
However, there's some practicalsteps, you know, maybe things
become pragmatic and this justhelps me to move forward.
And then we have another issueof we're not bearing one
another's burdens and we're not,you know, I guess, just
fighting through what we'regoing through, right?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
right To your point.
Medical doctors should bepursued and we should test for
any reason why there might be amedical issue going on, why I
feel the way I do.
But if there's no medicalreason, then we should at least
be open to what's going on in myinner person that's encouraging
these outer man symptoms.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
in all fairness, yeah , and at the end of the day, it
always comes down to authority.
I mean, we're either going tolean on man himself being the
final authority on all thingsthat relate to life and the
foundations of the world inwhich we live, or we're going to
(11:40):
rely on the authority of God'sWord.
I mean, that's it, and I lovesimplicity.
You know we have those twooptions and it's one or the
other every single time, andit's sad to me.
I think that people don't thinkin that way.
One of the questions I've beenasking people I mentioned on the
podcast is who's the mostsignificant human being that has
(12:00):
ever lived that has mostimpacted the world?
Almost everyone says Jesus, andthen I asked him what is the
most impactful book in all ofhistory, the most printed, the
most read, the most translated,the most purchased?
The Bible.
I say, man, if Jesus is themost significant person that's
ever lived the Bible is the mostimportant book, the greatest
(12:20):
book ever written then wouldn'tyou be wise to say who is Jesus
and what does His Word say?
And so it's sad that a lot ofChristians even don't recognize
that, but they're going to theworld not realizing that they
are, in a sense, helping toverify it.
Quote as an authority.
And that's tragic.
Thank you for tuning in to thisweek's highlights from the
(12:43):
Living Waters podcast.
Friends, we value your time, sowe've created a bite-sized
version of our podcast forlisteners who want to get
equipped.
Without the jokes andfellowship.
Be sure to check out the fullepisode every Thursday where we
dive deeper into the topic.
Until then, you can watch thefull podcast episode available
now on livingwaterstv.
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