Ep. 335 - Why Christians Struggle With Silence and Solitude

The lost discipline of waiting on God is one that men of old deeply valued, filling their journals with reflections on solitude. Today, however, we are consumed by distraction and the fear of missing out. Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar talk about how the rise of social media and smartphones has contributed to the loss of silence and solitude, which are vital to the Christian life. Silence forces us to confront our hearts—our struggles with working on salvation rather than working it out. Instead of facing our darkest thoughts, we use digital distractions as an escape. When we wait on God, we experience revival, healing, and conviction. Practicing solitude requires discipline, as our minds constantly race with thoughts, often without us realizing the noise surrounding us. True stillness is an intentional quieting of the soul before God.

Knowing God is more than knowing scripture—it’s abiding in Him. Silence invites us to see God as He sees us, to cease striving, and to recognize His presence. In Mark 6, Jesus told His disciples to step away after their missionary journey. This teaches us that spiritual strength comes from intentional rest in God’s presence. How do we practically apply this? Scripture should be incorporated into prayer. The secular world promotes mindfulness, but Christian  solitude is not about emptying the mind—it’s about filling it with God’s thoughts. The devil’s greatest weapon is busyness, distracting us from true communion with God. We often create our plans and ask God to bless them instead of waiting in silence to hear Him speak.

Our deepest yearning is to connect with the One whose image we bear. Yet, our phones keep us in a state of constant stimulation, making true solitude difficult. Practical steps to regain it include taking walks without a phone, setting screen-free times in the morning or before bed, and leaving devices behind when going into nature. This is not about emptying the mind but filling it with God’s promises. Silence before God is an opportunity to recalibrate, much like any precise measurement tool that requires alignment with a definite standard. 

How do we cultivate solitude in a world of distractions? Establish accountability, identify distractions, and reorder priorities. If entertainment takes up our time, adjust it to prioritize time with God. Applying these principles will be difficult. Our hearts remain restless until they rest in God. True solitude takes time and effort, but we must persist. The reward is a deep, abiding relationship with the Lord, free from the noise that seeks to pull us away.

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Visit the Living Waters website to learn more and to access helpful resources!
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Check out The Evidence Study Bible and the Basic Training Course.

You can connect with us at [e-mail]. We're thankful for your input!
Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's not about being alone, it's about being with God
.
You empty your mind from all ofthe external distractions
phones, internal distractions,the thoughts that are in your
own mind and then you fill it upwith the thoughts of God.
And one of the practical wayswe can do that is, just before
entering into that silence andsolitude, either spending time

(00:24):
in God's word or spending timepraying through God's word,
praying through the Psalms,praying through anywhere in the
New and the Old Testament.
To turn God's words into yourprayer words is a great way to
prepare yourself to sit in thepresence of the Almighty.
To sit in the presence of theAlmighty.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
I'm a very humble man .
Humble man, humble man, exceptwith you guys Like.
I have no problem when I'mwrong about something, or
discover something aboutsomething that I at one time
said wasn't what it was, but itends up being what now it is.
Now it is what, now it is.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Right, is this confession time with Easy?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
I had real bad garlic breath the other day Well, not
real bad garlic breath, I ategarlic.
It was bad.
I don't know what I was goingto do.
I was going to do an interviewor I was going somewhere, and so
I'm like up, what do I do forgarlic breath?
And it said drink milk.

(01:31):
I hate milk, I love milk.
I don't remember the last timeI had milk.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
It's not milk.
Milk, it's milk.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
There's an eye in there yeah, anyway, I tried it
and it wasn't as bad as Iremembered.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Come on, so you just need garlic milk.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
I bet you, there is.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Do you know I go through?

Speaker 4 (01:52):
two and a half gallons of milk a week.
Stop, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Normal milk.
Yeah, no, you did some kind ofweird funky.
I've come back to cow's milk,full cream.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
I think I'm going to die.
I'm going to die.
I'm going to die happy, that'sright.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
I knew that would happen eventually.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
And back to the cereal right Two and a half
gallons yeah cereal.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
I don't know what I would do without cows, because
we go through two dozen eggs atleast every week.
Cows don't give eggs.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
What kind of eggs?

Speaker 4 (02:19):
are those?
I was going to say how old areyou, Oscar?
Those are big eggs.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
I was going to say how old are you, Oscar?
Those are big eggs In.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
Mexico cows produce eggs.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Oh no, you guys didn't know this Sí.
Animal illiterate El burro losllantos el tipo de huevos.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
How old are you now Milk?

Speaker 1 (02:34):
I don't know what I would do without cows, because I
have a gallon of milk everythree days and I also side note
have nothing to do with cows andI also side note have nothing
to do with cows go through likea dozen, two dozen eggs every
week.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Oh, yeah, we know about your egg stuff, but I've
mocked Mark for years about hismilk drinking.
I still hate milk, but itdidn't taste as bad as I
remembered.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
It's nice.
You know, one of my favoritethings to do is to grab a hold
of the gallon of milk, put itinside the freezer and pull it
out when it's chunky.
So when I have a guest overpouring it into the cup and it
comes out in chunks and they'relike you're not going to, looks
like it's curdled.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, it looks like it's all curdled.
I go, it's my favorite.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
You understand how we get cheese, don't you and I go?

Speaker 1 (03:14):
through this whole thing.
Oh, that's great.
You should introduce it, asdoes anybody want chunky lemon
it?

Speaker 2 (03:20):
does look lemony doesn't it.
Yeah, but no, you've got tothrow some chocolate syrup.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Oh, you're ruining it now.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
Our chickens produce about a gallon of milk each week
.
How do you milk the chicken?
Ray trying to milk his chickens.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Give me a chicken, let me milk it.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
Oscar, we're not going to forget that I know.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
I apologize.
Ray, have you ever tried tomilk a cow?

Speaker 4 (03:41):
No.
Have you ever tried to take abull by the horn?

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yes, seriously, I'd love to see Ray trying to milk a
cow.
I think it's a little bitdisgusting actually.
Don't they say it's dangerousto drink milk from a cow.
That's not like.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
I don't understand how we're gonna get some
messages I'm sure we will.
Farmers write to us, please.
And what's up with?
Like soy milk, almond milk,coconut milk, you're a guy you
don't need soy.
Yeah, we don't need that stuff.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Almond milk is good.
I put it in smoothies.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Haven't you heard about?

Speaker 2 (04:13):
it.
What About what?

Speaker 4 (04:15):
Almond milk.
Is it really good?
No, no.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Oat milk turned out to be really bad, but almond
milk is still good, is that?

Speaker 2 (04:23):
a question why are they doing all this alternative
milk.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, because they think cholesterol and all that
sort of stuff.
Almonds are good for you.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Why don't we drink horse?

Speaker 3 (04:34):
milk Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
I give it a try.
No, but seriously, we get usedto things and our brains just
can't.
Goat milk, I know, but we havecow milk.
Why not horse milk?

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Sue and I were talking about this last night,
that I just couldn't drink a cupfull of goat milk.
I'd just be strange.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh goat cheese, I'm a cow milk.
Oh, isn't goat cheese good?
Come on, Oscar.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Goat cheese.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Now, you just ruined it for me.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
I love goats man.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
They're funny, little goats are funny, they really
are those noises they make?

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Is it goats that pass out?

Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yes, like when they're running, they get a
fright.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Did I ever tell you guys about my goat friend in
Mexico?
Stop, this is a true story.
I was 12 years old it was thefirst time I ever went to Mexico
and my great-grandma so mygreat-grandfather and my
great-grandmother they builttheir house in the middle of the
desert.
They're Mexican Indians.
They basically stuck a flag inthe ground and was like we're
building a home here, so theyhave.

(05:36):
It's very much like farmland.
So, anyways, I'm 12-ish, maybe10.
We go to Mexico.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
I don't speak very good English.
You don't speak.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
English.
Well, I'm sorry, I don't speakSpanish, man, I am backwards
today.
I don't speak Spanish very wellat this time, and so I make a
friend with this goat that'shanging out in the backyard of
my great-grandparents' house,and so he's my buddy.
I'm going back there, I'mfeeding in, I'm having a
conversation with it.
The next day, we show up at thehouse for my abuelita's

(06:08):
birthday and we're eating tacosand they're so good I'm like
seven or eight deep, and I'mlike, oh, I'm going to bring a
taco to my goat friend.
So I walk outside and the goat'smissing and I'm like where'd it
go?
And they're like, oh, we'reeating it.
And I, without hesitation, waslike he's pretty good.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
And I just kept eating it.
You didn't get sad, it did notbother me at all, it was good.
There's something wrong withyou, oscar.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
Speaking of goats, I had an experience the other day.
Lucy, our dog got fleas and soI took a collar off her so we'd
give a flea check.
After we'd done the flea checkI said look at Lucy, she's just
sitting there with her mouthwide open.
It was just weird, I meaninordinately wide, not saying
anything, looking kind of weird.
And I told Sue, look at that.
She looked and we saw this sortof red thing at the back of her

(06:57):
throat and when I put a collarback on, I accidentally put it
in her mouth and clipped it tothe back are you serious that
poor dog?

Speaker 2 (07:05):
you leave her on the bike for three hours but she
didn't.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
She didn't say anything, she didn't bark, she
didn't growl, it was just, shejust sat there with a mouth wide
open.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Dog needs rewards.
Yeah, heaven, is there a cpsfor dogs?

Speaker 4 (07:19):
dog protective services need it all right
friends here.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Cool, classy comment.
This is from a friend of ours,actually Sarah Bruce.
You guys know Sarah and DanielBruce.
They've come down to SantaMonica no, santa Monica,
huntington Beach a lot, and infact I saw Daniel at the
Redeemers men's conferencerecently.
So shout out to you guys.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
Did you say shout up to you guys.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Shout up to you guys.
Sarah said my daughter is veryshy.
She doesn't normally want totalk to people or give anyone
anything at all.
It had probably been two yearssince I helped her give people
tracks when she was just barelywalking around on the ground.
She's only three On yourpodcast.
Mark encouraged listeners tocreate a challenge for yourself,
such as giving a track tosomeone with a red shirt.

(08:04):
She loved that idea.
It changed everything for herAfter hearing that podcast.
A couple weeks ago she startedpassing tracts by herself, using
that as a springboard.
About a week ago, we went outto our local college campus to
share the gospel.
However, I was having somehealth issues that permitted me
from having conversations and Ihad to sit down.

(08:24):
I was fully expecting to notget into any conversations or
even have many tracks passed outat all, but God worked for His
glory in my weakness through mythree-year-old as I sat there
paralyzed.
Mom, can we get them?
I love this, mom.
I want to give one to them.
Thank you, living Waters, foryour great podcast.

(08:46):
God is using you throughthree-year-olds for His glory.

Speaker 4 (08:49):
Wow, sarah and Daniel , what a great thing that red
was a red t-shirt.
I can attract the next personwith a purple bowler hat there
is a challenge.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Here's a part two to that is you go out for the night
and you go.
All right, I'm going gonna tryto share the gospel with
somebody wearing a red shirt, orhand a gospel tract to somebody
wearing a red shirt.
Part two would be how, aboutanytime you go out today, if you
see somebody in a red shirt,you gotta give them a gospel
tract.
Oh, that's good, right, yeah,and then you can expand it out
like Ray.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
If they're breathing, they may seem silly as you
first think about them, but theywork and they encourage you and
motivate you.
So thanks for writing in Sarah.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
That's a blessing.
Praise God, our three-year-old.
They're going out sharing thegospel.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
Yeah love to your three-year-old.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, and now a radically revolutionary resource
.
This podcast is brought to youby the Vault.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
The Vault- man, I'm so glad we have the Vault.
What's?

Speaker 2 (09:43):
the vault Ray yes, make sure you're revolting.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah, what is it?
It's a box that's silver, itlooks like a vault and inside
are $100 million bill Gospels ofJohn Ah love those things.
Yeah, we get people writing inand saying how blessed they are
to be able to give those out.
We forget that we gave away amillion free of charge, remember

(10:06):
, and we paid for the shipping,sorry.
Yeah, we had a video.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
We had a video throwing them on Driveway.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
That's such a fun video.
Do you remember I handed youyour phone?

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, you're true, I gave it athrow out, so where is that
video?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
I'd like to grab it.
It's yeah, so check it out,friends.
Don't forget the Living Watersmug, the Evidence Study Bible,
living Waters TV, oh, and theLiving Waters YouTube channel,
where we have over 300 millionviews.
What are you going to say, ray?

Speaker 4 (10:32):
There was nothing in my mind.
You looked like you were readyto go.
I was breathing.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Don't forget also about the Ray Comfort Just
Witnessing YouTube channel.
Oh yes, we've got a channelcalled Just Witnessing.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Oh, and hang on a minute.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
We've been encouraging people to send their
own witnessing videos.
I think we've got two or threeup on Just Witnessing and they
do a very good job.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, if you get a good witnessing encounter, send
it in.
We may use it.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Good audio we also started a Living Waters podcast
YouTube channel.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
This is true.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Which has highlights and video of us I'm sorry about
that Of us on YouTube, so checkthat out.
The Living Waters PodcastYouTube channel we just launched
it.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
It's got thousands of subscribers, which is true.
We won't say how many thousand,but it's growing, so check it
out and you get videos of us All.
Right, friends?
Today's topic is why Christiansstruggle with silence and
solitude Because they know you.
I give no unrest, do I?

Speaker 4 (11:33):
So we've got a whole program talking about silence
and we do nothing but talk forthe whole program.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Let's sit silent.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
the whole program 40 minutes of silence starting now.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Ray, I wonder what the longest is.
You can actually sit quietly.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
It's not very long.
I remember many years agoDaniel was in the car we're
coming back from a restaurantand he says I bet you couldn't
be quiet until we got home.
He said that and I had to put atrack between my teeth.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Hold it.
I bet you can do it for fiveseconds.
No, I can't.
I can't Five seconds.
Try One.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
Yeah, right, right.
I was going to tickle him whenhe got to three.
Oh boy, I'm glad I stopped thatyeah.
But that's.
I've just got to say something.
The reason Mark's saying I'mgoing to tickle him is because I
freak out when I get tickled.
I scream.
It's not funny, it almost killsme.
I have a heart attack.
Same with your wife, oh yeah,Rachel.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
In fact I've said it, I've shared it before.
I've had to stop tickling her.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
You're not allowed to .
It's very difficult.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah.
It's painful, it's the job ofevery husband to tickle the wife
.
I know Don't even say the word.
I may reinstate it.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
Don't even say the word.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
My wife gets me back though, and she has fingers like
talons.
She she grabs my ribcages whenshe tickles me.
It's violent.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
Why can't you tickle yourself?

Speaker 3 (12:46):
I know there's a reason I've thought of that.

Speaker 4 (12:48):
You just go huh.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Even scratching your own back doesn't feel as good If
you went near my ribs, I'd gocrazy.
Tickle yourself right.
Try to tickle yourself right.
You want help.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
No problem.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
So yeah, guys, the lost discipline of waiting on
God, it's something that, whenwe look back, I think in church
history, at least in thewritings of men of old, it was
something that was emphasized.
It was almost kind of a givenyou wait on God.
I mean, you look at thejournals of some of the greats

(13:24):
and they were filled withindicators that they sat with
the Lord, they waited on theLord, and it's difficult.
I mean, I'm guilty.
I have a hard time sitting insolitude.
I've had to discipline myselfto be consistent in prayer.
I have accountability, I have abrother and I.
We text each other prayer handsevery day after we've spent

(13:46):
time in solitude and in prayer,because there's just something
about FOMO, right, the fear ofmissing out.
That's why I love reading onplanes.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
FOMO I've never heard that.
You've heard of FOMO?
No, I fell as I've missed outall these years.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
They haven't told me Fear of missing out.
Yeah, so it's something that we, as believers, must get back to
, I think, to have walks withGod that bear that depth and
that richness.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Silence is golden.
I should write a song Silenceis golden, oh dear, oh dear.
You know I didn't appreciatesilence until we had kids.
I'm serious, it was something Itook for granted.
But once you've got kids,there's just noise everywhere,
and when I became a grandfather-yeah, I was going to say when
you really appreciate it.
I really appreciate it Becauseyou buy all these toys for your

(14:38):
grandkids.
They come around and you gothrough the toys and say that
one's going, so is that one.
It's too noisy in that one.
And there's two things thatreally annoy me about life.
One is car alarms.
Whoever invented car?

Speaker 2 (14:50):
alarms should be shot Seriously.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
No one even pays attention to them anymore.
No, it's like the neighbor'scar's being stolen again and
they go on and on and you thinkwhen's he going to come out and
kill it?
And the other one is gardeners'blowers, you know right by your
window, it's got a noise thatjust grates.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Is there really such a thing as noise pollution, Like
that's a term I hear?
Yeah, you can hear it on thispodcast, the new title for our
podcast, but I mean, is it likea thing?

Speaker 1 (15:19):
It absolutely is.
They have highly sensitivesound decimal readers that you
can take and just walkingoutside, you don't realize.
You hear the buzz of cars, ofairplanes, of air conditioning
units, of helicopters, Suregunshots, Matter of fact.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
When we Gunshots, stabbings.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
One of my favorite things to do is when we used to
go sailing.
We would leave the coast on thesailboat and after you got
about a mile or two away fromthe coast, suddenly all of that
noise pollution would go away.
And when you came back home,it's like the closer you got to
shore, the more you can feel thebuzz start to escalate, you

(16:02):
know, and so we don't evenrealize how much noise pollution
there is.
But beyond that, I actuallythink one of the biggest moments
in history was the invention ofthe printing press, and one of
the most transformationalmoments in history in our day
happened in 2007.
And I really think the historybooks are going to talk about it
as a pivotal moment in thehuman condition.

(16:24):
And, of course, 2007 is notonly the year the first iPhone
was released.
It was also the first yearFacebook went from being
exclusively for college studentsto anybody can get access to it
.
It was also the year, formally,twitter became more than just a
sub stack and actually became asocial media place.

(16:47):
And so why I bring that up isbecause I think our modern lives
, we have lost the spiritualpractice of solitude, and it is
so damaging to our souls.
It disconnects us fromourselves and from God.
As one author put it, hebelieves that, more than

(17:09):
hedonism, distraction is whywe're moving into secularism.
He says it like this modernityslowly weakened spirituality by
design and accident.
In favor of commerce, itdownplayed silence in mere being
in favor of noise and constantaction.

(17:29):
The reason we live in a cultureincreasingly without faith is
not because science has somehowdisproved the unprovable, but
because the white noise ofsecularism has removed the very
stillness in which it mightendure or be reborn.
If churches came to understandthat the greatest threat to

(17:51):
faith today is not hedonism butdistraction, perhaps they might
begin to appeal anew to afrizzled, frazzled digital
generation.
I think the reason why isbecause, in our solitude, we
face the good and the bad of ourown heart.

(18:12):
We hear our desires, our hunger, our thirst.
We hear our lack for desire ofGod, our insecurities, our
idolatry, our fantasies.
We see all the ways we areworking on our salvation rather
than working out our salvation,and we lie to ourselves.

(18:33):
We say that we want to beproductive with our time, but
ultimately what we're reallydoing is running from fears and
worries and insecurities and thepains that's plaguing our souls
and so like, as one author putit we use digital distraction as
like one of those hammers ofwhack-a-mole.
Every time those insecuritiesand voices start to come up in

(18:56):
our minds, we get distractedwith our phones and we just
whack them back down againrather than facing the darkest
areas of our hearts.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
I never thought of it like that, oscar.
I love that contrast.
I mean the way it's put.
Hedonism isn't our biggestproblem.
Distraction In that, yeah, Imean, mark.
When my dad passed away I foundmyself not wanting to slow down
because it distracted me.

(19:24):
It kept me from facing thatpain.
Do you agree with what Oscar'ssaying?
Like there's times where we cando that with not necessarily
death, but just other issues.
We don't want to confront them.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Absolutely.
I remember when Pastor SteveMays from South Bay had passed
away, excuse me, when his fatherhad passed away, he reached out
to his mother about a monthlater, wanting to get together
and have a cup of coffee, andshe said well, let me check my
calendar.
Now she's retired, right?
And she checked her calendarand said you know, I can meet
you, we can meet up.

(19:55):
I need at least a month.
She had filled her calendarwith things to do to try to
distract her from the death ofher husband.
Solitude is a beautiful thing,right.
Noise can be a weapon of theenemy and can distract us enough
to where we don't do that,which is the most important.

(20:16):
Jesus in Luke 5, it says thathe withdrew himself to a
desolate place and he prayed.
If Jesus needed solitude, whywould we think that we don't
need solitude?
We think of Susanna Wesley.
She's buried in a cemeterycalled Bunhill Cemetery there in

(20:38):
London.
It's such an amazing cemeteryit's weird to word it like that,
but it really is.
Some amazing people are buriedthere, from John Owens to John
Bunyan to Isaac Watts, and rightacross from the cemetery where
she's buried is the house whereJohn and Charles Wesley were
born and raised and livedSusanna Wesley, with 10 kids.

(21:01):
She would escape away from herkids by grabbing hold of the
apron that she would wear allday long because she was always
serving, and she would put theapron up over her head and her
kids knew that when she had herapron raised up over her head.
This is mama's solitude.
Don't come knocking, don't comeasking, easy.

(21:22):
You should do that Right now.

Speaker 4 (21:25):
Put your shirt over your head.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Spare us the sight of your face.
Mark, I love that you and Iwent to a service this weekend
together.
We were visiting Mission BibleChurch where our good brother
Tony Wood, who's been on thepodcast pastors and Granger
Smith, was speaking and hetalked about John Wesley and the
impact that Wesley had, but howhe came face-to-face with the

(21:50):
Lord.
But you think about how manytimes, when that apron was over
her head, she was praying forher sons and you think about
that.
What was it?
How many 6,000 hymns?
I think Charles Wesley wroteSomething crazy like that.
And then you think of JohnWesley's impact.
He's got to be one of thepillars of the faith in his time
in terms of the impact he had.
So, yeah, but that's the thingyou miss out on that solitude

(22:16):
you translate into what is lostimpact through being with the
Lord.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
So we're talking about something that's totally
unnatural for human beings,because you put any human being
into solitary confinement, oftenthey go insane because they so
need fellowship.
We've got fellowship with God.
We're talking about silence andhow important it is.
It's something we shouldappreciate, and I didn't really
appreciate the fact that I canactually have silence until I
met a lady many years ago.

(22:42):
She was an elderly lady.
She was standing on a sidewalkand a guy started his motorbike
and it wasn't a Japanesemotorbike, it was American,
which means it was very, veryloud.
It burst her eardrum and shespent the rest of her life with
screaming in her ear, 24 hours aday.
Every time I met her she justsaid it's still there.
It's still there.
It's driving me crazy, so weshouldn't be afraid of silence,

(23:07):
but be thankful that we can havesilence.
Just get someone be with thelord.
Um, when we talk about waitingon god, what do you get from
waiting on God?
Is he, what do you get?
Yeah what do you get?

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Well, I think your strength gets renewed, like the
word talks about.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
The wings as eagles.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, you get revived , you get perspective, you get
healing.
Like Oscar was talking aboutconfronting those things that
you just don't want to confront,to let the Spirit convict you
and put His finger on things inyour heart and in your mind.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
You know we talk about God speaking to us through
His Word, but do you hear thevoice of God when you're waiting
on Him?
Is there a time when you hearGod speaking to you?
I don't mean audibly, but justabout things in your life.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, I mean, I think , conviction through the Spirit,
like you're saying, not in anaudible way or in a way where
it's like revelation, but yeah,just I think the Lord does it
through natural means, as we'reseeking him, as he brings things
back to mind and heart andgives us, you know, thoughts and
ideas that relate to our lives.
But, ray, I am curious to knowbecause you know I think it was

(24:14):
was it Elon Musk?
It was some genius person whojust said the thoughts will not
stop, like creativity andthinking he said you wouldn't
want to swap brains with me.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
It's just driving me crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Ongoing nonstop.
Do you deal with that, BecauseI know you have a really
creative mind.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
I don't have a genius mind, but I do have a mind that
won't stop yapping and thinkingof things.
Just constant.
We all do, yeah, constant.
Right now it's just thinkingwhat's easy, asking a stupid
question for how?

Speaker 2 (24:42):
do we get rid of A's?
Eh yeah, but, ray, because youdo practice solitude, you do
confine.
I mean you've done it for years.
How do you do it?
How do you fight that urge to?

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Very difficult because I've got a wandering
mind.
It wanders all over the place.
I was born under a wanderingstar.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Ooh, why the voice, though, right there?

Speaker 4 (25:03):
Because the guy that sung that song 400 years ago had
the deepest voice you everheard, like Grand Canyon.
Yeah, it's discipline, you justhave to.
Nobody caught that.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
Did you?

Speaker 3 (25:14):
catch that I got a deep voice like Grand Canyon.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
I don't listen to Ray .
I don't listen to Ray.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
But the subconscious is an incredible thing how it
yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap andhow there's like a chain of
links.
You go back on the thoughts youhave when you're sitting
quietly for the last 10 minutesand you just go all over the
place and thoughts are linkingfrom one thing to the other.
You think of the dog, I thinkof easy.

(25:40):
I think of a cat, I think ofeasy.
I wonder how much space Ioccupy in your brain.
Yes, I do have a lot of room.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, you know, I was thinking about this recently,
how we were never really off, inthe sense that I mean, imagine
the insanity of life withoutsleep.
Right, sleep's for the world.
I hate sleep Madness, crazy.
What do you say, ray?

Speaker 4 (26:03):
Why are you talking in a Russian accent?

Speaker 2 (26:06):
You're giving insanity.
But no, I mean, imagine thoughwe had no break.
But even when we sleep, ourbrain is still going.
We're dreaming, it's thinking.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
It's doing like we were talking about the other day
.
I dreamed that someone wasgoing to break my arm with a
crowbar and they said it's veryimportant we do that.
And I woke up and actually myarm was crushed under me and it
was gone all pins and needlesand that's why it produced a
dream, which is just strange howthat happens.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
It is.
It's really, really weird, andone of the things I was thinking
about recently is thatsometimes we don't realize the
noise around us until it stops.
In other words, we think we'rein quiet.
Sometimes in my office, myfridge will do this buzzing
noise, but it's going and thenit stops and you realize it.
I'm like, oh, that's what quietreally is, you know, and I

(26:57):
think the same way too, like wethink we're being quiet in
certain ways, or we're justrelaxing or whatever, but we're
on our phone.
We think we're being quiet, butthat's noise, even if it's not
volume.
But we're reading something, orwe're looking at this graphic,
or that, oscar, what does itmean to sit silently and to have
solitude with the Lord.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
Psalm 46, 10 comes to mind when you asked Ray that
question.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
There it is, that's great.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Beautiful, flavorful.
Be still and know that I am God.
I love that.
So, first off, we need todefine.
What does it mean, what doesthe psalmist mean, to know God?
This is not informationtransaction.
You can gather information anddata about God by going online,

(27:44):
by listening to podcasts, butthink about it this way Demons
probably know God's word frontand back better than you ever
will, and so, in that sense,when it comes to information, a
demon knows air quote God.
But is that what Psalm 46 means?
Be still and know that I am God.

(28:05):
Surely not.
What does it mean to know God inthis way?
I think the psalmist means toabide in him the best way to
describe it, and maybe I've evensaid this on the podcast before
.
But it's like you guys know mywife.
You guys know that she rideshorses, you can pick her out in
a crowd, you know what she lookslike, you know how many kids

(28:25):
she has, you know things aboutmy wife, but only I know her.
Only I know her fears andinsecurities.
I know her quirks, I know thethings that bring her joy.
So everybody knows about herfears and insecurities.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
I know her quirks, I know the things that bring her
joy.
So everybody knows about herfears and insecurities.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Now, because you've just told everybody, I know my
wife, you know, when we sit downand we talk to each other and
we explore our days and dreamsand ambitions.
I'm knowing her.
I'm abiding her.
I'm seeing her face to face.
I'm looking at her.
I'm abiding her.
I'm seeing her face to face.
I'm looking at her, looking atme in love, and in that same way

(29:03):
, silence and solitude invitesus into looking at God, looking
at us.
It's coming to know him, notjust know about him, but
actually know God.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Oh man, looking at God, looking at us, that's so
profound.
I've never thought of it thatway, Like pausing to consider
that the Father is actuallyconscious of us, like that.
You know, I was talking aboutthat.
You know, when you think aboutthat, right, Like we think of
God as being so big and so busyand so much going on in the

(29:40):
universe.
But it's that same Father whothinks of all of His children,
who fashioned the universe Likeright, everyone looks at the
same sun, everyone looks at thesame moon, has, throughout
history, every single personlooking at it and it's the same
thing he's thinking of us.
Like to pause and contemplate.

Speaker 4 (29:57):
It's mind-blowing, isn't it To think?

Speaker 2 (29:59):
that.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
God could even know us, let alone how many hairs are
on our head, and thoughts ofthe heart.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
I heard an interpretation of that in Psalm
46.
First you know, be still knowthat I'm God.
Interpret it properly.
Cease your striving and let meshow you that I am God.
That show you that I am God.
That's good.
I like that no.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
I don't remember.
It was a commentator for manyyears ago.
Yeah, yeah, was it Psalm 139?
How precious also are yourthoughts to me, o God.
How great is the sum of them?
If I should count them, theywould be more in number than the
sand.
That's a lot of sand.
That's a lot of thoughts.
Yeah, it's really mind-.
Blowing.
So how do we get there, guys?
Look at Mark 1.35.

(30:40):
I don't know if that's the oneyou quoted, mark, but now in the
morning, maybe it's a parallelone.
Now in the morning, havingrisen a long while before
daylight, he went out anddeparted to a solitary place and
there he prayed.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
You know, what's really cool about Mark 135 is
that it's right between it's.
It's right between two busyseasons.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yes, that's what's so amazing.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
It's like he's doing all this stuff and he's like,
okay, I'm out, I'm busy, andthen he comes back and he does
this stuff again and he goes.
So even just the recognitionthat jesus god incarnate values
silence and solitude so greatlyover even efficiency and

(31:24):
effectiveness, because thinkabout that he could have been
like we got to press the gas onthis.
We're gaining a following,let's go, go, go go.
I don't think he would havementioned gas.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
That's true.
We got to press the camel'swhip.
That's a push, the camel.
But, instead Milk the camel, soit can lay eggs.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Thank you, I feel seen, but instead, in the midst
of the momentum, he's likeactually the most important, the
most God-glorifying thing Icould do right now is be alone
with my Father, so he wasinvolved in ministry at that
verse 34?

Speaker 4 (31:59):
Yeah, is that correct ?
Because he got up a great whilebefore day and there's probably
a reason he did it to sneakaway because crowds followed him
.
Yeah, it's to get away from thepeople.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, well, you know, what strikes me in addition to
this verse is the fact that it'sincluded.
I mean, obviously noteverything Jesus did was in
Scripture.
John said that the world cancontain the books, but the fact
this was highlighted, I mean youwould think it's just okay.
Jesus got up and went andprayed Well, what's the big deal
?

Speaker 3 (32:25):
But it's highlighted, for us, for a purpose In this
passage in Mark, chapter 1, Ilike how Oscar points out the
busyness of what's happeningbecause it says that he healed
many right, goes away and has aplace of solitude and then says
that the whole town came out.
Did he go out now and heal thewhole town?
No, he said he wanted to gointo the next town and to preach

(32:48):
the gospel.
It is for this reason that Ihave come.
We look back and we go,spiritually speaking.
How amazing this is.
Quickly go heal all of themultitudes, go do spiritual work
.
It says there's nothing morespiritual than me preaching the
gospel to this next town.
That's where I need to go.
And with a heart set as a flint, he didn't turn back.

Speaker 4 (33:07):
Do you know why?
It's set as a flint?
A flint's one of the hardeststones you can get, and when you
hit it you get a spark.
And that's what you should getif someone tries to deter you
from preaching the gospel, asJesus gave a spark to Peter when
he says don't go to the crossand get behind me, satan.
That was a spark.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know what's interestingis we get to Mark, chapter six.
And right, this is right afterthe missionary journey that
Jesus and the disciples went onand they, it said, they said
people were coming and going.
They didn't even have time toeat and Jesus said come away by
yourselves and rest a while.

(33:44):
So I mean, jesus wasn't justpracticing solitude himself, he
was demonstrating its importanceto the disciples by really
facilitating it for them.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
I think King James says come apart, and the saying
is come apart before you comeapart.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Before you fall apart .
Yeah, that's what it is.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
That's good, yeah.
Lamentations 3, 25 to 28.
Beautiful, I can't believe wegot a letter when someone
included that after signing areference that was so good,
we're going

Speaker 4 (34:15):
to start a whole thing, It'll be in politics.
Some politician will say hmm,the Lord is good.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
There's going to be a Living Waters version of the
study Bible and after everyverse.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
It's the meditative Bible.
We're just a bunch of idiots,man.
No, the know-it-all.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Bible the Lord, Lamentations 33, 25, 28.
The Lord, Lamentations 33, 25,28,.
The Lord is good to those whowait for Him, to the soul who
seeks Him.
It is good that one should hopeand wait quietly for the
salvation of the Lord.
It is good for a man to bearthe yoke in his youth.
Let him sit alone and keepsilent, because God has laid it

(34:53):
on him.
Ah, so good you know to livethat way, to discipline
ourselves toward it.
And, ray, really everythingbasically in the Christian life
comes down to discipline.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Certainly does.
I was just thinking how you'reso evident.
You love Scripture and God'spromises.
You know just I think ofDavid's words.
I rejoiced your word over onewho finds great treasure or
great spoil, and I was lookingat Psalm 62, verses 1 and 5.
Truly, my soul waits silently,waits for God.

(35:30):
From him comes my salvation.
So if anything should make uswait silently on God, is
meditation on the fact that Godbrought salvation to us,
salvation from death, expressedhis love through the cross.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
That should keep us silent.
Yeah, and you know, we readthat.
You know that verse in Mark, Ithink Mark highlighted Luke 5.
So he himself often withdrewinto the wilderness and prayed
often, you know.
So it wasn't just that he didit, but we see that there was
regularity.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
That's how Judas knew where Jesus would be at the
garden, wow.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Oh, that's an interesting thought.
Yeah, that's true, he had thathabit of life.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
Well, it would be great to write an autobiography
of Judas speaking after hebetrayed Jesus.
Ooh, just from what hisemotions were.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Book idea.
Can you watch around?
That's how Ray remembers things.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
I put one together a biography just like that and I
can send that to you Really?
Yeah, it's really great.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
Oh was it.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
Judas yeah, with Judas.
I did it with chat.
I asked it to put together thatvery thing and I put together a
really cool thing.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Wow, yeah, imagine Judas being interviewed right
after that.
After he throws the money onthe floor of the temple.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
It wouldn't be regret , it would be remorse.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Such a powerful word remorse Describe the difference.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
Ray, regret is when you regret something, but when
you have remorse, what actuallyhappens is that you have remorse
.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
So you have morse again.
That's it.
It comes again.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
Remorse.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, itorse, so you have morse again.
That's it.
It comes again Remorse.
Yeah, it comes back.
What's?
Morse right, it's really bad.

Speaker 4 (37:03):
Remorse is reapplying the really bad yeah there's
actually a code that's gone outMorse code you send it again.
It's when you send it again.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Oh, that'd be a good title.
The remorse code D.
End it again.
Oh, that'd be a good title.
The Remorse Code DiedrichBonhoeffer said silence.

Speaker 4 (37:20):
Actually, that's a good title, yeah, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Ooh, write it down.
Silence is nothing but waitingfor God's Word and coming from
God's Word with a blessing.
Wow, waiting for God's Word,did you?
Say that again I wasn'tlistening.
Silence is nothing else butwaiting for God's Word and
coming from God's word with ablessing.
Wow yeah, sitting and waiting.

(37:43):
You know I love theincorporating of scripture in
prayer.
In our times of Salted Oscarthat's a big part of a lot of
worship traditions wherescripture is incorporated into
worship.

Speaker 4 (37:57):
It's done every day by millions through the Lord's
prayer.
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Right, Oscar.
Yeah, that actually brings itback to the question that you
asked earlier, which ispractical steps.
What do we do?
And I think it's important torecognize there's a difference.
You know, right now, one of themost downloaded apps of 2022, I
think was the mindfulness app,which is more Eastern view of
silence and solitude.
So there's definitely a desire,a secular desire, out there.

(38:23):
Nowadays, if you buy an AppleWatch, it's got like a breathing
mindfulness app built into it.
So everybody's looking for this.
So then it begs the questionwhat does silence and solitude
in a worshipful way?
How does that sound differentthan just mindfulness?
The practice of mindfulnessthat's more rooted in Eastern
traditions.
Right, and I think we've talkedabout this too which is to empty

(38:46):
your mind, is mindfulness, butsilence and solitude before the
Lord.
There's a next step to that.
It's not about being alone,it's about being with God.
You empty your mind from all ofthe external distractions
phones, internal distractions,the thoughts that are in your
own mind and then you fill it upwith the thoughts of God.

(39:08):
And one of the practical wayswe can do that is, just before
entering into that silence andsolitude, either spending time
in God's word or spending timepraying through God's word,
praying through the Psalms,praying through anywhere in the
New and the Old Testament.
To turn God's words into yourprayer words is a great way to

(39:32):
prepare yourself to sit in thepresence of the Almighty.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
If somebody says I don't know what to pray, pray in
the Word of God.
I mean almost any text you comeacross you can pray in.
You come across something likeJudas went and hung himself and
you go.
Lord, help me not to ever getto that place where I feel like
my only avenue of escape is togo do that dastardly deed.
It doesn't matter what text itis you can pray in the text and

(39:59):
you can be focused.
I did this kind of unusualexercise today on the way to
work, where I was thinkingimagine if the Lord granted me
the ability to pray anything Iwanted to pray from the moment I
left my house to 30 minuteslater I'm at work.
And he was going to say yes toeverything.

(40:20):
I'm about ready to pray and Iconsumed my mind and my thought
with this could be my very lastday, my last opportunity to pray
, and I found myself so focusedon my prayers and careful with
what I was praying.
It's like somebody says well,give me a hundred million
dollars, you'll see what I'll beable to do.
Careful what you pray, right,don't say anything.

(40:40):
I know Ray wants to buy tracksfor the whole world, but the
idea of what we're praying right, that God, that we have the
bent ear of God when we talk toGod, you can't get that in the
midst of the commotion.
Right.
Silence your commotion, becauseGod's not going to compete with
your commotion.
Right?
A bit of a gentleman, if youwould.

(41:02):
Blaise Pascal the mathematician.
He said all of humanity'sproblems stem from man's
inability to sit quietly in aroom alone.
Now, obviously I don't agreeentirely with that, but I like
what Tozer said.
He said the devil's greatestweapon against Christians is
busyness.
If only I could do more things,more things, more things.

(41:24):
But that's not the answer,right?
Imagine if you had and I wasthinking through my drive here
today.
I was thinking imagine if youhad the fastest car in the world
.
But the way to activate thatcar.
You had to do two things.
One, you had to push a buttonin order to activate that,
otherwise it goes at the speedof a Volkswagen bus.
What's wrong with that, that'sright.

(41:45):
Ray.
But secondly, the only way toactivate that and push that
button is you have to actuallypull over, stop the car and then
push the button.
So imagine if somebody comes upnext to you and you're driving.
You're going 50 miles an hourand you're racing for pink slips
, whatever it may be.
He's driving a Bugatti andyou're thinking, man, I can sell
that, give the money to feedthe poor.

(42:05):
He takes off.
But you know you have to dothese two things.
I got to push the button, butin order to push the button I
got to pull over and I got tostop.
Would you still try to race theBugatti or would you pull over,
stop the car and then push thebutton?
Well, that's kind of the wayGod works with our society, with

(42:25):
our Christian lives.
We come up with our to-do listand we say God bless our to-do
list, bless this list of all thethings I need to do today.
And God says I don't see thepart where it says flat tires or
a flooded house.
I don't see the part where you,whatever you do, oscar and you
can go down to Mexico, yourfriend, right?
But God includes the mundaneand the weird things and the

(42:47):
distractions of life in order tospeak to us, right?
Just like CS Lewis, pain isGod's megaphone to awaken a deaf
world, a deaf world that wehave to go through these times.
And when we're silent and whenwe're quiet is really when God
speaks.
And then, finally, jim Carrey,the actor.
He said you can fail at whatyou don't want, so you might as
well take a chance on doing whatyou love, and sometimes that

(43:10):
means stepping away from thenoise.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
You know what?
Sorry, you go ahead.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
No, you're more important than me.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
Anyway.
I was just thinking thismorning about.
I just can't get these thoughtsout of my mind.
I've been here for about two orthree weeks.
3,000 people in the SouthernCalifornia area, who were mainly
rich, lost everything.
And I just think about that.
Losing everything.
Could that be the beginning ofa revival?

(43:36):
Could they, for the first timein their lives, as rich people,
self-secure, suddenly bethinking where is God?
So we just don't know.
But it's just made me think.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
It reminded me, ray of Job Naked.
I came from my mother's wombnaked.
I shall return.
We don't think about that.
We constantly apply value toour lives on the basis of what
we have or what we'veaccomplished.
But we've said this so manytimes on the podcast our value
comes from the fact that we havethe imprint of God's image upon

(44:12):
us.
We are made in the image of God, we're image bearers, and the
fact that God intricately woveus together in our mother's womb
you know.
We need to remember that,because what that does is it.
I think it will create in usthis yearning to be reconnected
with the one whose image we bear.

(44:32):
It's like Lord.
That image is marred, though,in us because of the fall.
Like Lord, I want you to workon refining that image, and the
only way that can happen is ifI'm in proximity to the one
whose image I bear.
Then I become more refined toreflect that perfect image I was

(44:53):
meant to reflect originally.
Imago Nite, imago Dei.
What was that, ray?
Imago Nite, imago N originallyImago Knight.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
Imago Day.
What was that Ray?

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Imago Knight, imago Knight, imago Day.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
I love what you were getting at, mark, because it's I
was thinking about that.
I heard this comedian talkingthe other day and he was like
introducing people nowadays togrowing up in the 80s and 90s.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
And he's like.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Imagine you're waiting for your parents to pick
you up from soccer practice andyou don't have a phone.
You just stare at your shoes.
You just stare up at the sky.
Imagine you're on the bus.
What do you do?
You just stare at something.
Or you might have a book toread, and it kind of reminded me
of the reality.
Well, there's this author.
In this book called the CommonRule, justin Eerly suggests that
our spare moments should not beso fulfilled by aimless online

(45:37):
wondering.
He says those moments arereserved for staring at walls,
which is infinitely more usefuland I was thinking about that,
because the reality is is thatthere are times where it's so
wild the way our brains work,like we are truly addicted to
digital distraction, and I'mbringing this up because to
practice solitude, you have torecognize that you're probably

(46:00):
addicted to digital distractionand you're gonna need to wean
yourself off of it.
But this is really valuable toour spiritual vitality, and so
the way I know that I can bedigitally distracted and I can
be physically distractedAddicted is when I'm sitting
around and I got nothing to doand the first thing I do is grab
my phone.

(46:20):
Of course, I'm waiting in lineat the grocery store.
I can't just wait there and bepresent.
I got to grab my phone.
Of course, I'm sitting on thecouch and my kids are over there
and for some reason, after 30seconds I feel this urge to grab
my phone.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
Could you imagine being a brain surgeon Grabbing
the?

Speaker 2 (46:39):
phone.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Sorry, I got a text Truly the reality is that our
phones are meant to keep us onthis serotonin high and when we
remove ourselves from that, weare gonna experience a serotonin
low and we are gonna want aquick fix.
And so, practically speaking,we can practice solitude,
definitely by spending time away, but even in our regular lives,

(47:03):
like I wrote down four thingsFirst, try going on a regular
walk without your phone.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
Yeah, ask and I'll talk.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
You and your wife go on, or if you're single, you go
on a walk regularly without yourphone, with your dog, with your
dog, sure, 30, and again thisis like my dog has a phone.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Raise, can I borrow your phone?
Let me say give me your phone.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Again, this is probably like an addict.
We might need to wean our wayinto this.
But figure 30 to 60 minutes ofno digital content before bed
and when you first wake up inthe morning.
Imagine just taking 30 minuteswhen you first wake up, or the
30 minutes before you go to bedand there's no screens, no

(47:53):
phones.
Imagine what that would do toyou.
I've got a couple of emailshere.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
Imagine what that would do to you.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
I've got a couple of emails here the next one is
leave the house without yourphone or intentionally leave it
in the car, like the other day.
We went grocery shopping, Itook the kids and I very
intentionally left my phone inthe car what if?
Something happens, you'll befine.
What?

Speaker 2 (48:14):
if something happens like a drug addict I got to say
something here, oscar is sayingall this stuff with the
knowledge in his mind that hehas his phone on his watch.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
I'll leave it, I'll leave it, so he still uses it.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
I mean this is absolutely brilliant, it's
beautiful.
What if something happens,acronym is whoosh, that's true.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
What if something happens?

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Truly, though, we think that way but I think we
also think like addicts You'renot that important to have that
phone.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
That's exactly right.
Yeah, it'll wait, it'll be okay.
Finally, go into God's creationwith nothing, or nothing but a
book, to be able to go on a hike, to go to the beach if you live
near the beach, like we areblessed to do to be able to
spend time in God's creation,not being tempted to take a

(49:03):
picture to prove you were therebut, just simply being there.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
Kindle book on your phone.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
We can't handle this all script.
Raise out dude, what are youdoing?

Speaker 2 (49:13):
No, it's so true man, there is this sort of low-grade
maybe with Ray high-grade panicfull-blown at the thought of
not having our phones.
I mean, there are times when Ihave walked out and I always tap
my pocket right.
That's always like I got myphone and I'm like where is it?

(49:36):
And it's man, it's a problem.
And, mark, I love what youtalked about before.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
You could put your phone on silence.
He's trying to find every wayto keep his phone on silence.
There's got to be a loophole.
Yeah, that's it Solitude.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
But, mark, you were talking about having to pull
over to hit the button on thecar.
But the whole principle issharpening the ax.
That's right.
You pause.
You could keep going.
No, no, I gotta give it.
But it's like you pause tosharpen that ax, you're gonna
end up cutting that tree downquicker, right?

Speaker 3 (50:09):
Really upset the neighbor, and that's what prayer
does.
Right his mind does not.
Slow down, does not stop.
Richard Baxter the Puritan, thetheologian.
He said noise is not strength.
A still and quiet Christian isoften the strongest.
Spurgeon he said there is nobetter cure for the soul than to

(50:33):
be alone with God, and solitudeis not an absence of something
but a presence of someone.
When Oscar was talking about youknow, the world says we need to
empty our minds and then theyleave it at that.
That's not what the Christiandoes.
We're not saying go aside andrest and empty the mind and
leave it at that.
No, it's kind of likerepentance.
Repentance, right, it's apursuit of God and everything
else is left behind.
The Christian comes aside,rests a while, we get

(50:54):
recalibrated, but we fill ourmind with the promises and the
beauty of God.
That's where we're going,that's what we're going to do,
and there is a rest, let's notforget.
There is a rest that remainsfor the people of God.
That rest is there for you.
You know.
Jesus said come aside and rest.
Jesus fell asleep on the pillowin the midst of the storm.
Resting is a great thing.

(51:17):
Sleep is actually a beautifulthing.
I know Ray and I especially Rayhe jokes about if he had a
superpower, it would be wellthat I never rested, I never
slept.
He'd be able to get more thingsdone.
He's probably got like sixmonths, maybe a year left of his
life.

Speaker 4 (51:31):
He wants to redeem?
Why do you want me to visit theGrand Canyon?

Speaker 2 (51:36):
I rebuke that.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Why are there banana peels all over the ground on the
way to my office, grand, CanyonInsurance Company but silence
before God.
It's not an inconvenience, it'san invitation.
It's an invitation to comeaside, rest a while, recalibrate
, and let's do this together,not you by yourself.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Recalibrate I've talked about that word before.
That is, I think, one of themost pivotal words when it comes
to spiritual health.
Recalibration right, we knowthis, and anything that deals
with measurement, whether it'sweight, or it's a machine that
deals with length or whatever ifyou don't recalib, it's a

(52:17):
machine that that you know dealswith length or whatever if you
don't recalibrate with astandard that is definite, then
you're gonna, you're gonna veeroff course, you know.
And so that that's what it is.
It's that recalibration, right,it's like my watch, it's.
It's.
It's linked to the atomic clockin boulder, colorado, which is
perfect time, so each nightClock in Boulder, Colorado,
which is perfect time.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
So each night at midnight.
So you believe, yeah, reallyyeah, we went there and moved
the.
No, no, no, you guys are alwayslate.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
But at midnight you see this satellite image pop up
on my watch.
It means it's recalibrating, sothat if it got off like a
hairline in terms of the youknow zepto seconds, even it's
going to recalibrate.
Just get an Apple Watch, it'salways calibrated.
No, it has to recalibrate tothe atomic clock in Boulder,

(53:07):
colorado, done.

Speaker 4 (53:11):
Who started the Boulder clock in Colorado and
how do you?

Speaker 2 (53:14):
know they measured it right.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
What do they measure it on?

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Now I'm going to go crazy thinking about this.
Mark to your point.
I love this quote from RichardFoster the soul Are you going to
do it with quotes?
Now, love that quote.
The soul of the spiritualdisciplines is not about doing
more, but about creating spacefor God to do more in us.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
That's great.
There's a lot of space outthere.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah, lots of space.
What are you going to do aboutspace?
There are clouds up there.
They weigh trillions of pounds.
What are you going to say, Ray?

Speaker 4 (53:50):
The soul is never.
This is what Samuel Chadwicksaid the soul.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
Isn't it great.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
I hope you enjoyed that.
The soul is never less alonethan when it's alone with God.
Isn't that good?
That's deep.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Never less alone.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Oh, less alone.

Speaker 4 (54:05):
Never less alone than when it's with God.
In other words, you're notalone when you're with God ever.
That's so good yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
So how do we?

Speaker 4 (54:16):
Have you got something there?

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Easy, or was?

Speaker 4 (54:17):
it just.
You're just checking the bucketout to see any thoughts.
No, no.
So, how do we?
Yeah, yes, how do we?
There's nothing there.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
He hasn't thought about it, yet how do we?

Speaker 3 (54:28):
How do we?

Speaker 2 (54:29):
When all else fails, sing.
That's what I always say.
But no how do we get ourselvesto that place where we do the
hard things that are going tolead to solitude?
Because this is the thing, likeI know you guys right, oh, what
was that thing?
I said, oh, I sent you thatmeme, ray, where it was a wife

(54:50):
talking to her husband and hesaid, no, it doesn't even go
into one ear.
But I know you guys, everythingI say goes in one ear after the
other.
You're going to be excited.
Now.
What did EZ say?

Speaker 3 (55:03):
I don't know, See, if he had a point we would listen
we get excited, we get revved up.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
I know some of you listening right now.
Friends are like okay, solitudewith God, solitude with God.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
And like in 20 seconds.
That just insulted all four ofthem.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
But in 20 seconds a text is going to pop up, a
notification is going to pop up.
Don't tell me you guys getnotifications for.
Like your emails on your phone,yeah, but not on my watch, no.
Like does your phone buzzanytime you get an email?
Only work emails, oh man, yeah,I couldn't do that.
You would fire me.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
That's true, that's true, you have to keep it, but I
don't.
I'm very good at not answeringtexts right away.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
Yeah, I've seen that one about the money's coming.
The lawyer said he had contactwithin an hour, within an hour.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
Yes, yeah, I didn't get that Send.
I'm pretty slow in respondingto texts when you guys send
texts out, because I really tryto be in the moment.
I love what Oscar's saying.
You asked what is the hard step.
Well, the first hard step isremoving the phone.
Set up some boundaries.
I'm not going to get to thephone in the first half hour I'm
awake or the last half hourbefore I fall asleep.

(56:11):
That is a great practical.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
I get to the phone before I wake up.
This is Ray's phone.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Ray goes like this oh yeah, Ray's phone is a way.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
I just threw it over to Oscar.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Take his iPad.

Speaker 4 (56:23):
I have got other phones.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
He's like I got my iPad I have phones of which you
know, not of Backups.
Yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
I hide them around the house and in my office.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
No, look, here's what I'm going to recommend.

Speaker 4 (56:38):
Oscar, would you pass it back?
I can't handle it.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Here's what I'm going to recommend.
You must, as I've shared before, you must, implement external
devices to help you with yourinternal weaknesses.
What do I mean by that?
Again, it was the whole thingwith the alarms.
I had a hard time getting up,set five alarms trailing from my
bed to the bathroom.
I had to get up, shut them off.
That's an external tool to helpme with my internal weakness.

(57:04):
And so you go to like bareminimum, right, Bare minimum.
What you need right now isaccountability, which means, if
you're convicted by this rightnow, solitude with God, shutting
out the noise, sitting with theLord.
You must communicate about thiswith someone right now.
So that's your first step.
I'm going to talk to a brother,I'm going to talk to a sister,

(57:24):
I'm going to talk to my wife, myhusband, and I'm going to say I
have this problem and I want toget it right.
Will you please hold meaccountable.
Ray, do you have something?
to say, yeah, ray, no, nothingat all.
Yeah, and then from there whatyou do is with that person you
chart a course Again, just likethis brother and I.
For six months now almost, wehave had a commitment to send

(57:45):
each other prayer hands everytime we finish our prayer time,
and it's become a routine andit's beautiful.
So we established anaccountability mechanism.
So do that and then, from there, begin to weed out the things
that distract you, identify themAgain.
It's not about getting rid ofyour phone altogether.
It's about how do I not let myphone control me, how do I not

(58:07):
let social media control me, howdo I not let work control me?
For those of you workaholicsout there, you must put the
priorities in order the rice andthe walnuts in the jar.
You put the rice in and thenthe walnuts.
They won't fit.
Put the walnuts in, then therice.
It'll go in between all thecracks and crevices and then fit

(58:29):
.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
It's a Lebanese idiom Put the cow eggs in a bowl.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Yeah, the cow eggs.
You got to get the cow eggsright.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
So does that make?

Speaker 2 (58:37):
sense, or am I crazy?
I think you're crazy.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
But I mean, if you're listen, if you're used, to
watching a movie every singlenight, spread that movie out
over a week.
Say, I'm going to be watching20 minutes of this movie every
night and I'm going to fill thattime with a devotion, yeah, or
just reading something.
You know something similar tothat.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
What we're talking about, just away from a device,
yeah, well, I mean, ray has hislittle saying no Bible, no
breakfast, no feed no read,that's not original.
Yeah, I know Nothing is Ray, butI think you apply that too to
entertainment.
You haven't had time with theLord?

(59:18):
Well then, you don't watch TV.
If your day's been packed andyou don't have your normal time
with the Lord let's say you doit in the morning well then you
say what's priority?
If something's got to go, it'smy TV time or my movie time or
my recreation Time with the Lord.
Sitting in solitude is primary.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
So isn't it all summed up in seek first the
kingdom of God and hisrighteousness.
And all the other things willbe added, so this whole podcast
wasn't necessary.
Read your Bible, that's it, andwe should actually change the
name of the podcast to get ridof your phone.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
Listen, there's also very practical stuff that you
can do, and that is you can puta time limit on social media
apps and other things on yourphone.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Great thing, six hours, as a reminder, you, and
as an encouragement.
There's an addictive behaviorin every single one of us, and
when you start this newspiritual practice, it's going
to be hard.
It's not going to thefruitfulness of the reward.
It might not be instantaneous,but but the reality is.

(01:00:20):
It reminds me of what AugustineAugustine say, which is that
our hearts are restless untilthey find their rest in you, god
, and so what, ultimately, weand the Lord mostly are inviting
you to is to find the rest thatyour soul is desperately

(01:00:40):
seeking, and that is somethingthat is just.
It's going to take time for youto understand Amen.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Don't give up because it's hard and you're dealing
really with withdrawals.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
There is an addictive element, so press on and you
will experience the fruit ofthat there's a famous book that
I've never read, calledPracticing the Presence of God,
brother Lawrence, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Is that?
I don't know?
Yeah, something like that.
Did you say?
There's a famous book I'venever read.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
Yeah, I've never read it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Ray doesn't want to read it.
He doesn't care.
I have read the title.

Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
Great title.
All right, friends, we had alittle glitch glitch that part
was cut out, but Ray committedto give up his phone for one
whole month.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Yay, Did you see his eyes go wide.
He's behind me, never.
All right, friends.
There you have it.
Don't forget the Vault 100copies of the Gospel of John.
You can get them individuallytoo, but why not get 100?
Don't forget the Living Watersmug, the Evidence Study Bible.
Living Waters TV, living WatersYouTube channel.
All that Living Waters.
Oh, we never did it today.

Speaker 4 (01:01:43):
I was surprised it was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Brother Lawrence LivingWaterscom.

Speaker 4 (01:01:47):
Brother Lawrence, that's it, it was Brother.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Lawrence See.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
Yeah, Good work EZ.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
All right, friends, don't forget podcast at
LivingWaterscom.
Hey, we really, really lovegetting your emails and reading
them.
Thank you for joining us,friends.
We'll see you here next time onthe Living Writers.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Please work on that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Podcast when we have no idea what we're doing.