Ep. 338 - The Importance of Eternal Security

Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar dive into the topic of eternal security, offering an overview of how different traditions interpret the idea of being saved. They discuss how the Roman Catholic Church teaches that salvation begins with baptism and must be maintained through participation in the sacraments. The Armenian view leans toward a conditional salvation. The guys touch on an antinomian view which claims once saved, always saved. This interpretation disconnects salvation from the transforming power of the gospel. In contrast, the reformed position teaches that salvation is entirely the work of God.

If someone is genuinely saved, they will not turn back. Once the distinction between true and false conversions becomes clear, the parables take on new meaning. Those who fall away were never truly saved. Matthew 7 reinforces this, pointing out that some who thought they knew the Lord never actually belonged to Him—He never knew them. Christ saves to the very end, and the perseverance of the saints is a comfort that reminds us we are kept for Jesus, His treasured possession. If we could lose our salvation, we would, but we are not strong enough to fall out of God's grip.

Christians need to base their beliefs on scripture, not feelings. John 10 reminds us that no one can snatch God’s children out of His hand. Many believers are stuck in spiritual immaturity because they live in fear. The answer is to look to the cross and what the Lord has done. Even churches with good doctrine sometimes default to spiritual moralism. The gospel must be preached clearly and consistently so that believers can find confidence in the security of their salvation.

For the believer who is struggling, eternal security is not an excuse for laziness but a safety net. It frees you to live in gratitude, knowing that your salvation is not based on performance. Ray explains that God gives a new heart and new desires—He causes His people to walk in obedience. The guys discuss how even when we sin, Jesus is our advocate. A true believer grieves over sin and desires to obey. We belong to God and we always will. Philippians 1 says that God will complete the work He began. Salvation is His from beginning to end.

When people walk away from the faith, they were never truly part of it. A healthy tree naturally produces fruit—it doesn’t have to strain. Hebrews 6 is not about true believers falling away, but about those who tasted truth and still turned away. If you hate your sin and long for righteousness, you are in the process of sanctification. He who calls you is faithful—He will hold you.

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Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
But how many believers are stunted because
there is this fear hanging overthem that they've just lost
their salvation or they're goingto.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yeah, I imagine a lot and I think, in addition to
that, their salvation, or Ishould say their relationship
with God, is stuck and away fromwhat he intends for it to be,
which Psalm 51, restore to methe joy of my salvation.
The joy of my salvation and theinvitation there is to live

(00:29):
joyfully in confidence, not overwhat you do, but over what God
has done for you.
And I think the more and here'sthe reality is that ultimately
eternal insecurity, what we'redoing is we're focusing on
ourselves, it's all about what Iam or am not doing.
Eternal security is all aboutfocusing on God and what he has

(00:51):
done for me.
And so ultimately you kind ofMark I think last episode you
were quoting CS Lewis humilityor pride is not thinking less of
yourself, but thinking ofyourself less.
That was how CS Lewis quoted it, and I think our eternal
security is something similar.
We need to stop thinking aboutourselves and start thinking

(01:11):
more about what God has done andthe reality that he's holding
onto us wrong podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Is that, lady gaga?

Speaker 1 (01:41):
have you guys ever heard someone speak another
language and think to yourselfthere is no way they're really
saying something, just a yeah,right, I mean, I deal with that,
I'm bilingual.
But I hear someone speakanother language I'm like those
can't really be, they can't besaying something, right?
Yeah, I know you guys haveprobably doubted my beautiful,

(02:04):
wonderful, cute, adorable,snuggly Arab-speaking skills,
arabic-speaking skills.
So I'm going to prove to youthat I speak Arabic.

Speaker 5 (02:14):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
My good friend chat's going to help me.
All right, here we go,translate this from Arabic into
English.
Here we go translate this fromArabic into English.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
I am stronger more resilient and more beautiful
than Ray, mark and Oscar.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
She probably is.

Speaker 5 (02:53):
What does that do with you?

Speaker 1 (02:55):
I had this cool guy doing a man voice yesterday when
I tested this what in the worldand she was off a bit on that.
Anyway, I didn't say beautiful,I said handsome.
But let's do another one Really.
Yeah, one more.
He's reading it, though.
Translate this from Arabic intoEnglish.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Kalbet, kalbet, stop it woman.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
What are you doing?
This is amazing.
Okay, here we go.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Kalbet ray talbus awainet ahsan min lawainet el
Ray belbos.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Ray's dog wears glasses better than the glasses
Ray wears.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah, that's a good quote I speak Arabic.
I speak Arabic.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
That was very good.
You know that.
All you have to do is saytranslate this Really, you can
cut out the English to Arabic.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
Oscar, you're welcome .
I'm new at this stuff.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yibroit.
Yibroit Translate yibroit Guys,look I Okay, here we go, here
we go.
You guys know there aregenerations that have thought,
oh, oh, we have it all wherewe've reached it what more can?
every generation thinks likethat okay, but there are some

(04:12):
generations that end up saying,okay, that this have, you know,
trains.
They run on steam and it's alocomotive.
It's moving with wheels,there's no horse pulling it.

(04:33):
Yeah, you can extrapolate fromthat to a car.
Maybe one day it won't be onthe tracks and blah, blah, blah,
blah.
Whatever we have a car, oh,that's great.
Well, maybe one day we'll havebigger cars, trucks, and they
can you know, they'll havewindshield wipers and the rain
won't bother you, whatever.
Who could have fathomed what wehave?

Speaker 5 (04:53):
with ai mark.
Yes, it's crazy I don't like ai.
I don't use it no I actuallyjust looked up based on what you
said, because if it can beinvented, it has been invented
is often attributed to Charles HDuell, who was the commissioner
for the US Patent Office in1899.
If it can be invented.
It has been invented, but it'sa myth, chad Chippity just told

(05:16):
us.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Well, he didn't say that.
He never said it.
Silly people believe jive likethat.

Speaker 5 (05:22):
In fact, he encouraged innovation.
He said in my opinion, allprevious advances in the various
lines of invention will appeartotally insignificant when
compared with those which thepresent century will witness.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
So the pool guy?
Everyone thinks the guy's anidiot and he didn't even say it.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
He probably got his house toilet papered.
False idiot.
Okay, but you guys, please,let's talk about this a little
bit.
How?
How, Listen to me, it's noteven, it's not even well, it is
obviously the content and whatit can do, the speed.
I mean right now I can tell itgive me 45 of this, and I can

(06:02):
give it, like this detail.
It's not like you know okay,give me a minute.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's like it is, it's awesome.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
My son explained it to me through a diagram how AI
works.
If you were to look at thediagram, it's absolutely amazing
.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
The way it's broken down.
I sat next to a guy on theplane that he was doing AI stuff
and I was so intrigued I'm likedo you really understand how it
works?
He's like yeah yeah.
I hated that guy.
I want to know how.
Oscar, you don't seem veryinterested in this subject.
No.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
I'm interested in it.
I think we've talked about itbefore, like 1,800 times.
No, no, this is special.
It is pretty amazing.
I think we've talked about itbefore, like 1,800 times.
No, no, this is special, it ispretty amazing.
I put a sermon in it.
The other day I just copy andpasted a sermon.
I wrote word for word and askedit to turn it into a booklet
for me and it failed miserably.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
No, it didn't.
It didn't do it it didn't.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
It didn't do it, it gave me, it just was.
And then I was like, why didthat get messed up?
And to this, I still don't havemy booklet.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
So I'm frustrated with AI, yeah, you bad AI, no,
but I mean you know, of courseyou have your pros and your cons
, right, we've talked about itbefore.
It can make you stupid.
You don't use your brain, youstop being creative, so on and
so forth.
Plagiarism in a form that youdidn't really write it and
you're pretending like you did.
But when it's used properlywhen it's used properly, I mean

(07:32):
even what you just said, likehaving it take something you've
actually created and rework it,or whatever.
Or like you wrote a letter andyou say, hey, clean this up for
me.
It's better than any humaneditor I've ever like.
The it's just I don'tunderstand If anything was like
real magic.
This is it, you know.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
I love it where I can say just give me some ideas on
where I should go with this.
Give me five ideas and it does,and it just sets me off in a
different direction ofcreativity.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
That is one thing I did.
So I took that.
I did the five things we canlearn from the early church
about reaching the nextgeneration.
I wanted to turn that into abooklet, so I gave it to it.
And then I did say give mecriticism on this.
How would somebody disagreewith this?
Am I exaggerating?

Speaker 4 (08:20):
No, no, just say be a wife, Be a wife Wife GPT, that
would be good.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, it's mind-blowing.
I'm just.
I'm so blessed to live in thisera.
That's all I got to say.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
And again, I know there's got to be more.
I can't imagine how or what.
Well now, obviously it's theblend with humanoids and mixing
that together.
I mean, obviously it's theblend with humanoids and mixing
that together.
I mean, yeah, there's crazierstuff coming, but it is fun to
be alive in this day and age.
I've been finding it to behelpful as an example.
I'm not going to use it towrite a heartfelt letter to

(08:58):
someone I care about, but if Ihave to write something to my
insurance company, our houseflooded.
I need to explain something.

Speaker 4 (09:10):
I type in three lines and it gives me the most
amazing, perfect letter.
That's a help that saves timethat I could use for other
things.
Also, I saw an expert veryexcited about the fact we're
going to have robots $30,000robots in the future.
I don't want a robot, seriously.
I mean, if you want to mow thelawn, just mow the lawn, don't
get roboted.
I want one you want one.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Oh, so badly, you know what they could do for you.
Ray, feed the chickens, yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
They can feed, slaughter, cook and feed you the
chickens.
The supermarket does that yeah,hey, I've got to tell you this
is nothing You're talking aboutinnovative and technology on
that.
The.
This is nothing You're talkingabout innovative and technology
on that.
The simplicity of life when itcomes to collecting eggs each
day gives me such joy.
I've done it since I was alittle kid.
We had chickens when I was akid, and collecting eggs that
have been laid by these stupidbirds that don't know what

(09:57):
they're doing, that we canscramble, fry, poach and turn
into an omelet, I think is alittle miracle and I see them as
miracles from God.
By the way, did I tell you aboutthe time I collected five eggs
in one hand?
No, yeah, it was really good.
I had something in my otherhand.
You know you can't fit fiveeggs in one hand, if they're
good size eggs.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
It's like you can't fold a paper.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
X amount no no, no, no, I'm leading somewhere with
this.
So I took, I went inside and Iput him on the bench and I said
to myself I thought there werefive.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
I knew where that was going.
You really did that.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
I really did that.
I couldn't believe it.
Do you really ask that he?

Speaker 3 (10:30):
really did it After I said it.

Speaker 5 (10:32):
I'm like.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
of course, I predicted that's what would have
happened.

Speaker 5 (10:34):
Remember when that chicken got upset at you and
refused to give the shell withthe egg?
Wait Ray was that real.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Just recently so you never responded to that question
in my text.
I asked it like three times,okay for the listener.
What is the story?

Speaker 4 (10:46):
One of our chickens laid an egg without a shell.

Speaker 5 (10:50):
It was just.
There's a weird membrane, justa membrane without a shell, so
Easy said how did that happen?

Speaker 4 (10:55):
I said I don't know.
How do I know?
I'm not a chicken, it's abackslid.
It became lukewarm.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
How do you know that the sun didn't cook it and then
the chickens pecked off theshell?
No, you don't know that.
You said you don't know.
They're too dumb Chickens arereally dumb.
All right, Anyway, whatever youguys Time for a cool, classy
comment.
This is from someone that gaveme a card.

(11:24):
Oh, I think at the ARCconference.
Easy just wanted to say thankyou for all you and the rest of
your crew do.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Ooh, that rhymes Easy .

Speaker 1 (11:31):
I just wanna say thank you for all the rest of
your crew do for sharing thegospel and the impact you all
have had on my life and journey.
I started reading the Bible thesummer of 2021.
By February 2022, I was saved.
I had no church or guidancefrom anyone, nobody to lean on.

(11:52):
I believe God led me to dustoff my Bible and start reading,
like all smart people.
I went to YouTube, found a guywith a dog on his bike and life
has never been the same.
The four of you guided me,taught me what happened to me on
that February day.
You led me to MacArthur, washer, bauckham, artavanis, costi,

(12:18):
even helping me find my way to asolid church here in Cincinnati
, way to a solid church here inCincinnati Truth community, and
he goes on.
Thank you friends, thank youfriends in quotes, my brothers,
for all you do for the kingdomand helping a lost wretch like
me make sense of himself bysolidifying my foundation on the
beautiful gospel of JesusChrist.

(12:39):
Love you, brother, ray, markand Oscar too.
Rick Wiest, loveland, ohio.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
I think you used AI to write that.
It was just so good.
Yeah, ai, that was beautiful.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, wow, Rick brother, it was a blessing to
meet you and thank you so muchfor letting us know that we
never get tired of cards likethis and letters and those, Can
I?

Speaker 2 (13:00):
just point out something as you were reading it
, and he started with like youknow, not being at a church, but
you led me to, and he named allthese people.
In my mind I'm like, oh man, Ihope he finds a church.
And then he says he does, andjust the importance of you know
you can follow a hundredincredible preachers and
teachers and whatever it willnot make up for the work God

(13:21):
means to do in and through youin the context of a local church
.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
So I'm just praising the Lord.
Praise God, amen.
And now a radicallyrevolutionary resource.
This podcast is right to you,man.
Count your blessings and stopstressing.
Ray, what are you stressingabout over there in the corner?

Speaker 4 (13:41):
Someone sent a text I couldn't understand.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Sorry, drop it into AI, it'll help you figure out.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
No, it said are you here now?
And then I thought it waswritten on Friday.
But today's not Friday, it'sTuesday, so I was confused.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
I've been getting this advert actually for an AI
program that writes all of youremail drafts for you and then
you just review them and fixthem whatever and then send them
whatever.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Ray, what is the most stressful book you've ever
written?
Count your.

Speaker 4 (14:09):
Blessings and Stop Stressing.
Yeah, that was a terrible one.
Ray, what's it about?
You don't do that.
The title explains the book.
It's wonderful.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, Check it out, friends.
It's a devotional and it willspeak to you about not stressing
.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
When no one's read the book.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
And don't forget Living Waters.
My evidence study Bible LivingWaters TV YouTube channel.
Living Waters no no.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Livingwaterscom.
I didn't know what you weredoing.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
I'm sorry, I was so confused Me, and Mark knew what
he was doing.
What's?

Speaker 3 (14:49):
wrong with you?

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Alright, friends, today, the importance of eternal
security.
I thought it was externalsecurity.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
You just made Oscar yawn, he's looking after your
house with cameras.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
The importance of eternal security.
Remind me.
Yawn, he's looking after yourhouse with cameras.
The importance of eternalsecurity.
Remind me.
What did you do, Ray?
Oh, the Department of EternalAffairs.
That's right, I had it in mywallet.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
What was that?
It was a card that saidDepartment of Eternal Affairs
Director and I put it on thedesk at John Wayne Airport and
the guy says are you from theState Department?
I said Department of EternalAffairs.
Do you know the Lord?
He says no, but he does.
He pointed to another guy it'sfunny.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Some want love and others want purity.
Others people want eternalsecurity.

Speaker 5 (15:39):
Mark, you're a pretty good snapper actually I'm
trying to be offbeat to makeyour song even worse.
You did the two things.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
Mark is good at Snapping and cracking your
knuckles, mark.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
He's done that for years, but Mark is at a whole
other level, not anymore myfingers are like all destroyed.
No, don't show us that pinkymark.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
You know better than that.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
I don't think I can, but you do it where you put them
all together and you go yeah,but listen to what he says after
he's done it for years.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
When we travel, I can't hear oh, oh, but you do it
where you put them all togetherand you go yeah, but listen to
what he says after he's done itfor years on my travel.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Click click, click and he goes ouch.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Ouch ouch Mark, why Mark?

Speaker 4 (16:18):
why do you crack your fingers, dude like that?
That's probably good for you.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
I don't know what builds up the cracking stuff?

Speaker 4 (16:25):
Oh, it's exploding, the synovial fluid within the
ball and socket joint.
That's all it's saying.
Wait, wait, what?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Ray, that was a very AI moment.
Ray, that was pretty scientific.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
right there it's the exploding of the synovial fluid,
which is a very high qualityfluid, in the ball and socket
joint of your knees.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Okay, Ray has had that statement prepared all his
life for this moment.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
For this moment, yes.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Is that really real?

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yes, Synovial fluid.
Whatever right, I don't believethat Sin.
Oh, Mark, you're in sin.
I'd love to sort of give ageneral overview, because
there's different views oneternal security I think it'd be
helpful if we started with justlike a general overview.
So you know, starting with theRoman Catholic Church, they

(17:05):
believe in what's called initialjustification, which comes
through baptism, but theybelieve that you can lose your
salvation either through mortalsin or not cooperating in grace
through sacraments.
And so, essentially, the RomanCatholic Church, absolute
assurance is not possible.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Thank you, Mark.
Mark just proved to us what Raysaid.

Speaker 5 (17:29):
What's it called the sin over your fluid.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Sign over your fluid.
Yeah, that's false.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Sorry, Oscar, no it's okay, I'm just trying to work.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
I'm trying to work here people.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
An Armenian view.
Interestingly, this is givencredit to Jacob Arminius, but he
actually left it open.
Jacob Arminius disagreed withfour out of the five doctrines
of grace.
The fifth one, the one that hewasn't sure about, was
perseverance of the saints.
He actually vacillated back andforth.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
He didn't read his Bible.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Apparently not, and then the Wesleyan church,
through John Wesley, took it tothe next level, in which they do
believe that you can willinglylose your salvation through
unbelief or persistent sin.
In other words, they believeyour assurance is conditional on
continued faithfulness.
An antinomian view emphasizesonce saved, always saved, no

(18:26):
matter what, and it essentiallydetaches salvation from a form
of obedience.
And basically we talked aboutthis in our previous episode
which is that the gospel doesn'tjust save you, it also
transforms you.
That's the difference betweenjustification and sanctification
.
Justification the gospel justtransforms you.
That's the difference betweenjustification and sanctification
.
Justification the gospeljustifies you, you are right,

(18:49):
standing before God, but thegospel, in addition to that,
continues to work out in yourlife in a sanctifying way.
It is transformative, andthat's the reality that
antinomianism loses, the realitythat the gospel also transforms
you.
It cheapens grace and then areformed view, which is actually
, it's accredited to theReformation, but it's actually a

(19:11):
restoration of a historic view.
And just as an example,augustine Augustine In the late
300s said of course, the man whoperseveres in faith is saved,
but it is God who gives himperseverance, even to the end.
Cyprian of Carthage, cyprian,thank you the Lord, proving us

(19:33):
by his divine teaching, says he,that endures to the end, the
same shall be saved.
Athanasius said he becomes.
He became man so that in him,as man, we might be renewed and
sustained in our being to theend.
In other words, this historicview is that salvation is
entirely God's work.

(19:54):
Those who God regenerates andjustifies, he will also
persevere to the end.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
That's a great overview, oscar.
Persevere to the end.
That's a great overview, oscar,and I think it's helpful to
people to understand really kindof the roots of some of these
views and where they come from.
Nothing has sustained mepsychologically, emotionally and
ultimately practically as abeliever than the doctrine of

(20:22):
eternal security.
Without it, I personally don'tunderstand how anyone can truly
live a vibrant Christian lifewithout the understanding that
Christ is the author and thefinisher of their faith.
I think it's a sad and a tragicthing, ray, but I think I'd

(20:44):
love to back up to somethingyou've always said.
I don't know if it's originalor not, but Oscar highlighted
the antinomian view of oncesaved, always saved, and it's
not always strictly antinomian.
I think there's qualificationson that, but what he said is
true the error of go ahead anddo what you want and great,
you're saved, right.

(21:04):
But I love.
What he said is true, the errorof go ahead and do what you
want and great, you're saved,right.
But I love the way you'vealways put it If saved, always
saved, explain that.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Yeah, I don't know where I got it from, AI.
No no it was pre-AI, it was manyyears ago, but you can find a
thousand Bible verses to justifysomeone who believes or for
someone who believes to justifyyou.
Can fall away and you've got topersevere or at least you fall
away.
They find all these verses, notrealizing there's such a thing

(21:32):
as true and false conversion.
If someone is genuinely saved,they put their hand to the plow
and don't look back, becausethey're fit for the kingdom and
God has made them fit.
They're the good soil hero thatbrings forth fruit hundredfold.
He doesn't fall away like thestony ground hero when
temptation, persecution andtribulation comes.
And then you look at verseslike he is able to keep you from

(21:52):
falling and present youfaultless before the presence of
His glory with exceeding joy.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Oh man, Jude, 24 and 25.
I want to give referencesbecause, listen, we have a lot
of people listening right nowwho have been haunted by the
fear that they've lost theirsalvation or are going to lose
it.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
So you feel free to who was the guy that gave the
impression?

Speaker 3 (22:11):
Oh yeah, jack Van Eppie, jack Van Eppie.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
You can play Jack Van Eppie.
I'll be his wife, I'll justquote him.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Today, me and Roxella had soup for dinner at
Revelation 4 or 5.

Speaker 4 (22:21):
Everything After every sentence, anyway yeah, so
the good soil, hera, is thegenuine convert.
Once you understand the conceptof true and false conversion,
and everything comes back to theparable of the sower, where
jesus said to the disciples whenthey said we don't understand
this parable, he said don't youunderstand this parable?
How then will you understandall parables?

(22:42):
Matthew 13 the key, yeah, sothat's, that is the key to
unlocking the understanding ofunderstand all parables, matthew
13.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
The key Shuff, shuff, shuff yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:46):
So that is the key to unlocking the understanding of
all the parables, the wheat andthe tears, true and false, the
good fish and the bad fish, thegoats and the sheep.
And the goats stay with thesheep until judgment day, when
they'll be sorted out.
So when you look at people whofall away, you say that person
wasn't genuinely saved.

(23:06):
And you and I, all of us, havesaid the same thing.
Someone could come up to uswith a truckload of diamonds and
say I'll give this to you ifyou turn your back on Christ.
And I'd spit on the diamond andsay get out of my face, because
we've found everlasting life.
How could we fall away?
We're tempted by sin, but wedon't look back longingly to
Sodom.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
We don't do that.
That's good Amen.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
We put our hand to the plow and don't look back,
because we're fit for thekingdom and that comes back to
the sovereignty of God.
He made us fit.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Amen.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, you know.
Look, matthew 7 makes it very,very clear that there are people
who will have thought they knewGod, lord.
Lord, have we not prophesied,cast out demons, done many
wonders in your name?
And I will say to them I neverknew you.
Depart from me, you whopractice lawlessness.

(23:57):
I never knew you, you know?
Isn't that interesting when youthink about what Paul said in
Galatians?
He said but then, indeed andthis is in Galatians 4, 1, and
on, he said but then, indeed,when you did not know God, you
served those which, by nature,are not gods.
But now, after you've come toknow God, or rather are known by
God I love how he put thatYou're known by God, mark.

Speaker 5 (24:22):
I want to comment on that scripture that you just
said.
And then you'll tell themplainly I never knew you.
Depart me from your work ofiniquity.
I never knew you.
He didn't say at one time Iknew you.
Right exactly Right.
I mean, if he said I never knewyou, it means he never knew him
.
Yeah, how do I break that down?
Any more than that right?

(24:43):
So it's not depart from me,your worker of iniquity.
I once knew you, but I don'tknow you anymore.
This is a great verse for thedoctrine of eternal security,
right RC Sproul.
He said the perseverance of thesaints is really the
perseverance of God with thesaints.
Christ does not save halfway,he saves to the last breath.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Wow, I love Jude 1 on that, which says to those who
are called, beloved in God theFather, and kept and here's the
thing, it's not just and kept,it's and kept for Jesus Christ.
The perseverance of the saintsis so important because it
reminds us that the gospel isn'tprimarily about us.

(25:29):
The gospel is primarily aboutGod, and your salvation is
primarily about God.
You are kept for Jesus.
You're not kept for yourself.
You are his prized possession,his bride, his inheritance.
What is the devil going to robfrom Jesus?
His own inheritance?

(25:49):
Absolutely not.
You are kept for Christ Jesus.
The perseverance of the saintsis not ultimately about you.
It's about Jesus getting whathe wants.
Amen.

Speaker 4 (26:00):
I know and believe, and persuaded, that he is able
to keep that which I'vecommitted to him against that
day.
I don't know where that's from.
It's from the Bible.
What's the reference?

Speaker 1 (26:12):
I just got to qualify what we're saying.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
We're not saying that you can live like the devil and
you've got assurance ofsalvation.
If you are genuinely saved, youwon't live like the devil,
right.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
And again, that's the point.
Jesus was making A few morereferences.
These are from 1 John.
By this we know we've come toknow him if we keep his
commandments.
The one who says I've come toknow him but doesn't keep his
commandments is a liar and thetruth is not in him.
Again, an indicator that youcan say you've come to know him
God is light In him.

(26:42):
There is no darkness at all.
If we say we have fellowshipwith him but walk in darkness,
we lie and don't practice thetruth.
So again, and the reason whyI'm highlighting these is
because there is that perceptionon the antinomian side of
things that Oscar highlighted,that anyone who professes Christ

(27:02):
is a Christian.
Titus 1.16,.
They profess to know God but bytheir deeds they deny him.
Mark, you were gonna saysomething.

Speaker 5 (27:13):
I was Spurgeon, the old Baptist preacher.
He said if you could lose yoursalvation, you would.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
I mean, how strong do you think?

Speaker 5 (27:24):
you are and how prideful are you to think that
you can maintain it.
I mean, it's absolutelyridiculous.
And then JI Packer.
He said your faith will notfail while God sustains it.
You are not strong enough tofall away while God has resolved
to hold you.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
We could have just ended it with.
If you could lose yoursalvation, you would.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Thank you for doing that Spurgeon.
Yeah, spurgeon, yeah.
So I want to look at someverses, to look at some verses
and again to connect them to theLord, because at the end of the
day, as I repeat often, itdoesn't matter what we think.

(28:06):
It doesn't matter what we feel,it doesn't matter what the most
respected Bible teachers mayhave said to us.
The question is what doesScripture say?
I had a guy come up to me aftera purity conference and say I
don't agree.

Speaker 5 (28:21):
Wait, what nationality would that have been
that?

Speaker 2 (28:24):
sounded like your Lebanese version of yourself.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
I don't agree.
I don't agree.
Well, I'm not going to give itaway, because then people will
figure out, maybe, who it was.
Ray, that's right.
No, but he basically was sayingTrump Lust is fine and ah, it
was written in that time.
It was different back then.

Speaker 5 (28:49):
What boldness to go up to the preacher, oh yeah, he
came up to me.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
I go, you go, to this church.
Oh, every Sunday I am here.

Speaker 4 (28:55):
I'm like okay, Was he a pastor yeah it was a pastor
you go to this church.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Oh, every Sunday I am here and I'm like, okay, was he
big?
Was he big?
It was the nun, the nun of thechurch.
Yeah, so it doesn't matter.
What was he going on?
That's what I feel.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
What did you say to him?
I punched him.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
How dare you?

Speaker 1 (29:14):
No, I just took him back.
I told him basically, again,he's calling Jesus a liar and
he's telling me I know Jesussaid if you look at, the woman
lost her blah, blah blah.
But it's still like no, that'sjust.
I feel differently, basically.
So we have to go back to theword.
We have to go back to what Godhas said.
What else do we fall back on?

(29:35):
And this is important because Ithink sometimes, with people
who are wrestling with doubtingtheir salvation, there's almost
a sense of I don't know,righteousness in it.
It's good for me to feel thislike a loser and I'm a wicked,
wretched sinner, and yeah,there's something good about

(29:57):
recognizing our depravity.
But we can't stop there,because then we're telling
Christ that what he did on thecross really didn't mean what he
said.
It meant that by one offering,he has perfected forever those
who are being sanctified Hebrews10, 14.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
You're saying we go back to what the Word says.
Eternal security really has itsbasis in simple, childlike
trust.
It's as simple as that God says.
I believe it.
It's written in the Word, asWord can never lie.
It's written in the Bible.
I believe it till I die.
Though the mountains be removedand cast into the sea, god's
Word will last forever,throughout eternity.
Which verses are those from theBible.

(30:34):
There was a song somewhere, thewhich verses are those from the
Bible.
There was a song somewhere.

Speaker 5 (30:40):
The Beatles.
No, it wasn't the Beatles.
Yeah, so You're heading in thedirection about you're going to
give us some scriptures, right,You're laying the foundation.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Christ, right, he's a foundation, his word is a
foundation.
John 10, 28 to 29.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
Wow, wow, you guys are slacking today and I give
them.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
This is Wow.
You guys are slacking today andI give them eternal life.
No one will pluck you out of myhand.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
And I give them eternal life, and they shall
never perish.
Neither shall anyone snatchthem out of my hand.
My Father, who has given themto me, is greater than all, and
no one is able to snatch themout of my Father's hand.
Wow.

Speaker 5 (31:14):
It couldn't be clearer than that could it they?
Shall never, no, never, no,never.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Never, yeah, in the original language I mean, it's
so explicit and emphatic Never,no one.
And I mean Oscar, how manyChristians are stunted right?
Because Don't look at me,spence- Hooray it's stunted.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
Hooray, it's stunted.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
The timing of that.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
But how many believers are stunted because
there is this fear hanging overthem that they've just lost
their salvation or they're goingto.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, I imagine a lot and I think, in addition to
that, their salvation, or Ishould say their relationship
with God, is stuck and away fromwhat he intends for it to be,
which Psalm 51, restore to methe joy of my salvation and the
invitation there is to livejoyfully in confidence, not over

(32:14):
what you do, but over what Godhas done for you.
And I think the more and here'sthe reality is that, ultimately
, eternal insecurity, what we'redoing is we're focusing on
ourselves, it's all about what Iam or am not doing.
Eternal security is all aboutfocusing on God and what he has

(32:35):
done for me.
And so, ultimately, you kind ofMark, I think last episode you
were quoting CS Lewis in which Ijust completely lost the quote
in my mind.
I just pulled an easy.
What was the quote?
Oh, humility or pride is notthinking of your is not

(32:55):
thinking- Lowly of yourself.
Less of yourself, but thinkingof yourself less.
That was how CS Lewis quoted it, and I think our eternal
security is something similar.
We need to stop thinking aboutourselves and start thinking
more about what God has done andthe reality that he's holding
onto us.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Well, ray, that's right.
I mean, when we sin, the remedyis to turn to the cross right.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
If we confess our sins, he's faithful and just to
forgive us our sins and cleanseus from all unrighteousness.
I read something there theother day.
When I was looking at thatverse I thought I've never
really seen that and had arevelation of what it's actually
saying.
If we confess our sins, he isfaithful and just.
That brings in the cross.

(33:39):
Yes, because God isn't justfaithful to forgive our sins,
he's just to forgive our sins,and the cross makes provision
for our forgiveness and keepsthe law satisfied and we're
justified through it.
Who, according to his abundantmercy, has begotten us again to
a lively hope through theresurrection of Jesus Christ
from the dead, to an inheritanceincorruptible and undefiled

(34:01):
that does not fade away,reserved in heaven for you who
are kept by the power of Godthrough faith for salvation,
ready to be revealed until thelast time.
What we're saying at the momentabout having faith in God and
his promises may not mean thatmuch, but when you're on your
deathbed, you want to know thatyou're saved.
You want to know that theparachute you're jumping with

(34:23):
isn't faulty, that you can takeit on and put it back on.
Take it off, put it on.
No, god gives it to you andHe'll keep you.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, you know, one of the things that I've found
tragic in talking to Catholicfriends and again, I grew up
Catholic.
We absolutely love Catholicfolks, but it's I don't know.
If you ask somebody, do youhave everlasting, are you saved?
I don't know, we'll see, butthey don't recognize.

(34:49):
Again, that sounds like you'rebeing humble.
I don't want to be prideful andpresume, and so they say that.
But what is it being inferred?
I don't want to be prideful andpresume, and so they say that,
but what is it being inferred?
I don't know if I'm going tohave done enough, if I was good
enough on the basis of my ownworks and efforts to enter His
kingdom.
We'll see on that day.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
That's an insult to the gospel.
Amen.
I've been groaning a lot justfor the last day or so because I
read something just yesterdaywhere this young lady, whom
you'd be familiar with thepicture, she, um, she was
involved with Prince Andrew.
You know the whole thing.
Yeah, down at Mar-a-Lago,something like that many years
ago.
Uh, just yesterday or the daybefore, she was involved in a
car accident where her I thinkher kidneys got destroyed and

(35:32):
they said you've got two days tolive.
And she wrote on, she saysgoodbye to everybody, I love you
, all that and she's only 33 orsomething like that.
So imagine hearing that doctorsaying there's no way you can
live, you've got usually theysay two weeks or two months, two
days, and my heart's gone outto.
I hope she's, I hope she,someone shares the gospel with
her or she knows the Lord.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
It's tragic.
You mentioned Catholicfriendsolic friends.
I think I think we have to behonest too and say that in in
many protestant churches, um insome faithful other uh you know
churches thing which has good,faithful doctrine that would
even agree with, um perseveranceof the saints, so often I hear

(36:15):
preachers get lazy in theirpreaching and ultimately you can
reduce their sermons down tospiritual moralism in which it's
like hey guys, today's sermon'son prayer, here's how you need
to pray.
You're not praying enough, youneed to pray more.
If you're really a Christian,you'd be praying this way.
All right, go pray and youleave and you're like man okay,
I guess I'm a bad Christian.

(36:36):
Or, and you leave and you'relike man okay, I guess I'm a bad
Christian.
Or you leave going.
Well, I guess I am a Christianbecause I'm doing these things
when the reality is that we needto preach the gospel so that
people have confidence in theireternal security.
Again, not pointing at what wedo, but pointing at what Christ
has done for us.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Amen, amen.
Yeah, I'm trying to rememberthat verse.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
It was Remember all things that verse.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Things is a part of it.
Do this and live.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Do this and live.
The law commands, but gives meneither feet nor hands A better
promise.
The gospel brings it, bids mefly and gives me wings, that's
really good.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well, that is great.

Speaker 4 (37:22):
Isn't that great.
Where did that come from?

Speaker 1 (37:23):
I don't know.
I've heard it quoted before.
I was trying to remember how itwent.
But yeah, do this and live.
The law demands, but gives meneither feet nor hands.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
Give me a fly and I'll fly away.
Yeah, what a great memory.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
I'm trying to remember the other part, man,
he'll never forget.
I just said it.
At least it's on there.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, but a better word the gospel brings.
It bids me fly and gives mewings.
I love that.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
Can I talk about for just a moment why this is so
beautiful?
We have.
We've touched upon it a littlebit, but I want to take it from
a different angle and this isfor the person who is struggling
.
You know, perhaps right If youwere to look at eternal security
not as a hammock but as asafety net when you mess up and

(38:10):
you will not if.
But when you mess up you beginto have a view that, listen,
it's not about me, anyways,right, it's God's kindness that
leads me to repentance, god'sgrace which causes me to live a
sober life.
It causes me to be even moregrateful.
You know, it's like I blow it,I mess up and I go pause time

(38:34):
out.
It's not about me anyways, lordbe, lord be God.
Do what you do best.
Reconcile, make sense.
Give me the courage to confess,to profess, to do what

(38:54):
Christians do in this right.
If we treat eternal securitynot as a hammock where I can do
whatever I want to do whatChristians do in this right, if
we treat eternal security not asa hammock where I can do
whatever I want to do.
Bro, I mean right, I mean I cansin, and this is kind of the
Catholic viewpoint that I had arelative who was Catholic and
said, oh, you believe in eternalsecurity.
It's like, oh, so you can justdo whatever you want to do.
Now I go.
What are you talking about?

(39:15):
Where did you get this idea?
I'm not treating eternalsecurity as a hammock, though I
can rest because Christ has donethe work.
I treat it as a safety netbecause I can't fall.
I will never stumble, I'm notgoing to be going down to hell.
He's not going to punish mewhen I mess up because he

(39:35):
punished his son.
There's only room for onepunishment for the believer
right, or for the non-believer.
You get punished in hellbecause you've rejected God, or
Christ is punishing you Now.
God can correct you, he canchastise you and you want him to
do that right.
But no, it is a safety net, nota hammock.

(39:57):
Just come alive with the ideathat it's not about you, it's
about Christ in you the hope ofglory.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Amen, you know, ray, to that point, because that's
the thing, right?
When someone is talking to youabout, oh great, then I get
saved and I just go ahead and goout and do whatever I want,
right?
They're coming at it from anatural mindset, an unregenerate
mindset.
But, ray, you say somethingrepeatedly when you witness to

(40:23):
people, and that is you evertold a lie?

Speaker 3 (40:26):
I'm not lying, marcus .

Speaker 1 (40:31):
God will give you a new heart and New desires.
You say that every time Expoundon that Ray.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
Yeah, it's the promise of the new covenant when
God says I'll Take my law andwrite it upon your heart and
cause you to walk in my statutes.
I love the Living Bible whereit says this that God will cause
you to do the things he wantsyou to, without him even telling
you to do them Good, where youcan say I delight to do your

(40:58):
will.
Oh, my God, your law is writtenupon my heart.
So God takes his law, thatwhich is so precious to him,
that's what drove Jesus to thecross God's love for justice and
he writes it upon our heartsand causes us to walk in his
statutes.
And that's the miracle of myown conversion.
As I said to Mark, we were doingan interview the other day and
I said I went for 22 years as anon-Christian, never for a

(41:21):
second, saying oh God, I believeyou gave me life.
What do you require of me?
Never once did I pray a prayerlike that.
And the moment I became aChristian it was oh God, I will
do anything for you.
And I didn't create that, Ididn't make that, I didn't make
myself for the last 50-somethingyears.
Think about the Lord 24-7.
It's just there.
And that's what salvation iswhere God causes you to walk in

(41:45):
his statutes.

Speaker 5 (41:51):
A saved life is a changed life, right.
If any man's in Christ, he is anew creation.
The old things have passed away.
Behold, all things have becomenew.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, amen, oscar.
The first verse I quoted wasJohn 10, 28 to 29.
No one will snatch us out ofhis hand.
Romans 8, 38 to 39.
For I am persuaded that neitherdeath nor life, nor angels, nor
principalities, nor powers, northings present or things to
come, nor height, nor depth, norany other created thing shall

(42:19):
be able to separate us from thelove of God which is in Christ
Jesus, our Lord.
Isn't it sweet that it's tiedto the love of God which is in
Christ Jesus, our Lord?
Isn't it sweet that it's tiedto the love of God and, like
Paul, wanted to make sure to gooverboard, like on and on and on
, but nothing, no one will beable to separate us from that

(42:39):
love, what confidence I mean,what power you know to really,
and I think, ultimately, all ofthis is about again turning our
eyes to the love of God and theway that he has loved us.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
It's funny that you're quoting that verse
because I thought about puttingit in my notes and decided not
to.
But the reason why I thoughtabout putting it in my notes is
because I remember when I firstrealized I was a Christian, I
couldn't fathom.
I was like man, I'm gonna ruinthis.
That's the way I thought.
I'm gonna ruin this, I'm gonnadisappoint God, I'm going to.

(43:11):
I'm not worthy, I'm not goodenough.
And it was that verse early.
That was like my first lifeverse.
You know everyone gets like alife verse when they first get
saved.
That was my like life verseCause.
When I came across that andread that it brought me to tears
to just realize this is I'm notgoing to ruin this.
This is the Lord's work.

(43:31):
He's faithful to save me, tokeep me and to restore me, to
transform me.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
I am His workmanship in the midst of all this, and
neither death nor life oranything else will ever separate
me.
Oscar, can you expand that alittle?
You said I realized I was aChristian.
That sounds more than someonesaying I'm making a decision to
become a Christian right now.
I'm a Christian by my owndecision.
Expound on that, will you?

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, I mean it goes to my salvation story, which is
I was an atheist through highschool and college and the thing
that saved me is somebodypreached the gospel.
And the thing that saved me issomebody preached the gospel and
the thing about that is that Ihad heard it before, I knew it.
He didn't say anything special,it wasn't a good story, it
wasn't well presented, there wasno new argument, it was simply

(44:18):
the Lord's timing.
But I didn't walk away thatmoment.
I'm a Christian.
I walked away, going man, whatwas that?
Something just changed, I'm notsure.
And so once I got involved in achurch and I started reading
through and understanding whathappened to me, I came to the
realization the Lord saved me.

(44:38):
That's what happened.
I'm a Christian.

Speaker 5 (44:42):
You know, when you quoted that Romans 8 passage,
nothing will be able to separateus from the love of God in
Christ Jesus, our Lord.
I heard a commentator say whenGod says nothing, he means
everything that you're afraid of.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
That's so good.

Speaker 5 (44:58):
Nothing will separate us from the love of God.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
Wow, I just got the chills.
That's funny.
I thought you were going to saywhen God says nothing, he means
nothing.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Yeah, I mean you think about the concept of God
reneging on a promise he made,of God actually being able to
err, like he messed up.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
Boy, everything comes crumbling when you think
thoughts like that.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Oh, like I mean, but that's what we're saying If God
can lose us, if God couldsomehow, you know, not have us
as his when he paid such amassive price for us and I think
that oftentimes, you know, it'san issue of what we've done

(45:51):
that makes us feel that oh.
I just messed up, I just sinned.
I've done this for thethousandth time.
Listen to 1 John, 2, 1-2,.
My little children, thesethings I write to you so that
you may not sin, amen, right, Imean, obviously God's Word wants
to keep us from sin and John isan apostle saying I'm writing
this to you so that you don'tsin.

(46:14):
And if anyone sins, we have anadvocate with the Father, jesus
Christ, the righteous, and heHimself is the propitiation for
our sins, and not only for oursbut also for the whole world.
I mean, I love that hey don'tsin, but if you do, remember we
have an advocate, he's ourpropitiation.

(46:36):
He satisfied the wrath of God.
He paid for that very sin onthe cross.
And on the day that you gotsaved and were feeling the
fullness of joy because you werejust regenerated, remember God
was aware of the worst sin youwould ever commit.
And that love that you feltfrom him at that moment is still

(46:56):
valid for you in the momentthat that sin was committed.
Because if you truly love God,you never want to sin.
Right, the flesh lusts againstthe spirit, the spirit against
the flesh.
You don't want to, and yetthere's that battle in you and
you have to turn back to theLord and His love.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
By grace.
You're saved through faith andnot of yourselves.
It's the gift of God.
Can't earn a gift, but God cankeep it in your hands.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Amen, yeah, and you know, you think about what Paul
said.
What are you guys talking about?
What?

Speaker 5 (47:29):
if they don't have any hands.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yeah, good question.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
But you know I mean you think about.
I shared that passage fromRomans.
You know we said what shallseparate us from the love of God
?
Should it be tribulation ordistress, or persecution, or
famine, or nakedness or sword?
I mean again, this is before.
He says I'm convinced thatneither death nor life, nor
angel, all these elements right,none of this will separate us

(48:03):
from the love of God which is inChrist Jesus, our Lord.
We are His, we belong to himand we always will.
Ephesians 1, 13 to 14,.
In him you also trusted afteryou heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation, inwhom, also, having believed, you
were sealed with the HolySpirit of promise, who is the
guarantee of our inheritanceuntil the redemption of the

(48:25):
purchased possession, is theguarantee of our inheritance
until the redemption of thepurchased possession, to the
praise of his glory.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
I think I heard an exposition of that portion of
Scrippy many years ago saying ifsomeone says I'll give you a
million dollars this afternoonat five o'clock, but as a down
payment, as a token of goodfaith, I'm giving you a hundred
dollars right now.
That shows I'm going to get amillion at five because you
wouldn't have given me $100,000right now as a token of good

(48:50):
faith.
And God has sealed us with theHoly Spirit of promise,
guaranteeing the inheritance iscoming.
Amen, full redemption.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, I've heard that analogy.
Mark, have you heard about thatanalogy with lumber and the
seal?

Speaker 4 (49:07):
Oh, the beam in the eye?
No, I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
So the idea comes from like when lumber would be
harvested right and it would belong.
Typically, when that happens ina certain forest, that lumber
is going to be transferreddownriver to a place where it's
collected and at that place it'sdivvied up to the different
people that bought the lumber.
So what would happen is theservants of the person who

(49:35):
purchased the lumber would goand the trees that were selected
, they would be sealed with aspecific stamp.
It's almost like a branding,and it had the owner's insignia
on it.
And so let's call him Jack, yeah, jack be nimble, jack be quick.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Lumberjack.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Yeah, lumberjack, and then when all the logs come
together, they would look forthat and that was the guarantee,
that seal was the guarantee ofthat purchase possession, that
it would now be taken by theowner.
Isn't that beautiful.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
Beautiful, but I had a thought how much does a big
tree weigh?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Way too much.
Weigh more than 20 pounds.
They're huge.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
They're so heavy.
They crush anything Crazy, howcome they float.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Isn't that crazy I know they float downriver.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
Yeah, they float like a boat in a moat, but float
like a boat in a moat, butthey're not shaped like a boat.
A boat floats because a boat'sshaped like a boat.
But, they just float withoutbeing shaped like a boat.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Yeah, it's a big tree that I can see, and I see it
floating in the sea.
How could it be?
I just don't know.
I want to jump on it and thenwe could go with the flow down
the river.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
We see over and over again, by the way, the Lord
interacting with us throughcovenants and seals associated
with that covenant.
And so from the Old Testamentwe see seals and covenant
between God and Noah, betweenGod and Abraham, whether it's a
rainbow circumcision.
In the New Testament we getthese two seals, we get the seal

(51:02):
of the Holy Spirit and you getyour baptism.
And one of the things that wasreally neat about the early
church is that when they were inseasons of struggle, of doubt,
uncertainty, sin, the pastorswould often remind them of the
day of their baptism.
They would say again, not to bemistaken, that baptism doesn't
save you, but they would lookback and go remember you got

(51:24):
baptized, Remember the joy ofyour salvation that day,
Remember the Holy Spirit that iswith you, even convicting you.
Now that is your seal, that isyour confidence that the Lord is
persevering in you.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
And of course, the.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Lord's going to persevere in you.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Yeah, for Philippians 1.6,.
This would have been probablymy life verse early on in my
walk with the Lord, beingconfident of this very thing
that he who has begun a goodwork in you will complete it
until the day of Jesus Christ.
You know I've heard some attimes try to say, well, he's
talking about the completion ofthe gift that they had committed

(52:00):
to.
I don't believe that thatreally is the context of that.
I believe this is speakingabout what God has done, the
work he started in us.
He's going to complete it.
He's going to bring to fruitionour salvation that he
inaugurated.
You know I love that Ephesians,I mean Romans 8, 28,.

(52:22):
We always quote it he who begana good work in you, I mean God,
causes all things to worktogether for good to those who
love him and are calledaccording to his purpose.
Philippians says it is God whois at work in you, both to will
and to do for his good pleasure.
To will and to work for hisgood pleasure.
And then here, he who began agood work in you will be
faithful to complete it.
God's at work us.

(52:47):
He's doing a good work in us.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
He's going to finish the good work he started.
Mark, remember that song fromback in the day he who began a
good work in you.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Oh, you guys all know it.
Yes, I know it, I know the airguitar to it he who began?

Speaker 3 (52:55):
a good work in you.
He is faithful to complete it.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
I've never heard this song in my life.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
He'll be faithful to complete it.
He who started the work will befaithful to complete it in you
he who Right?

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Mark, he, who that's?

Speaker 5 (53:15):
what.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
I thought was funny when you begin it again.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
He who, he who, hi baby what.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
We're on the podcast.
You're live on the podcast.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
I know, say hi to everybody.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
What?
This is insane.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
Sorry.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Rachel, we've jumped the shark guys, it's my wife.
Love you too.
It's my phone.
We've jumped the shark.

Speaker 5 (53:39):
Izzy's wife just called in Alexander.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Phone's on.
I always say phones on you guyssay phones off.
Anyway.
But guys, seriously, he whobegan that work will complete it
.
Okay now, mark, what do you dowith those who?
But hey, they looked like abeliever and they were with, but
they fell away.
They lost their salvation.
1 John 2, 19.

(54:03):
They went out from us, that'sright.

Speaker 5 (54:06):
Yeah, because they were never of us.
Because if they were of us,they never would have left.
And you know listen, that's astrong theology, does right.
So they looked like they wereone of us, but they had
artificial fruit.
It's really what it is right.
So an apple tree does not haveto strive to produce apples.
A healthy apple tree producesapples.

(54:26):
That's what it does.
It abides, and when we abide inthe vine, we produce the fruit.
Right, you'll know them that weare His disciples by our love
one for another.
Are they genuinely loving?
Are they producing that fruitof the Spirit you can't have.
Well, listen, I produce all thefruit of the Spirit, except for
self-control.
No, the fruit of the Spiritincludes self-control.

(54:50):
That is one aspect of the fruitof the Spirit.
So when somebody leaves us,somebody goes on, you can
confidently say well, if theyare turning their back on Christ
, they were never part of Christ, they were never part of the
family.
Turning their back on Christ,they were never part of Christ,
they were never part of thefamily.
Right, you guys?

(55:11):
What are you?

Speaker 1 (55:11):
All of you guys are on your phones, all three of you
guys with your shenanigans areon your phones.
I'm taking pictures of you.

Speaker 5 (55:16):
Lies.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
That was a lie.
Anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 5 (55:18):
Right, yeah, so that's just the idea, right.
And God is able to keep to thegutter most, as one theologian
said, those who belong to him.
And now, who are you calling?

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Nobody Ray's calling me on FaceTime.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
That's to pay you back for not turning your phone
off.
No, I love my phone.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Yeah, no, mark, amen bro, Good stuff, you were really
enjoying that.
Can you just repeat what I said?

Speaker 2 (55:41):
That was great.
No listen, that's good stuff.
We got a good four minutes inguys.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
I just sent Rachel a text and apologized.
No, she's my wife.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I'm not my wife.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Okay, but real quick.
I think it's important becausehere's what's hanging over some
people listening right now.
What about Hebrews 6, 4 through6?
Okay, and this wouldn't becomplete if we didn't address
this briefly, for it isimpossible for those who are
once enlightened and have tastedthe heavenly gift and have
become partakers of the HolySpirit and have tasted the good

(56:11):
word of God and the powers ofthe age, to come, if they fall
away, to renew them again torepentance, since they crucify
again for themselves the Son ofGod and put him to an open shame
.
That's beautiful, that's apositive verse.
It's not a negative verse to anopen shame.

Speaker 5 (56:24):
That's beautiful, that's a positive verse, it's
not a negative verse.
So I expound on that more.
It's impossible.
I agree it's impossible andyou're not going to fall away.
So when somebody it's like thattrack that we used to have
right, it's just how do you lookat it God is now here, God is
nowhere.
When you put all of thoseletters together, somebody reads
it as God is now here andsomebody else reads it as God is

(56:45):
nowhere.
Right, it's just how you lookat the verse.
You presuppose that it goesanother direction.
I get it, but you're left witha lot more scriptures that you
need to contend with.
So when we interpret scripture,we do it in light of all the
other scriptures that are aroundit, and so that now leads us to
believe that, no, you're notgoing to taste of the heavenly

(57:05):
kingdom and all that comes tothe child of God you've been
blessed with.
Every spiritual blessing in theheaven is.
You're not going to taste ofthis and then fall away.
It's impossible to fall away.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yeah, I love how MacArthur put it too.
He said this is a warningdirected towards those who have
had a superficial exposure tothe gospel but have not truly
embraced Christ and who, afterrejecting him, will not be able
to repent again.
And then he gives some morepoints.
There MacArthur argues that thepassage is not about true

(57:35):
believers losing their salvation, but rather about the danger of
those who have had a glimpse ofthe truth but have not
genuinely come to faith.
Then he hits on the onceenlightened term.
The phrases like onceenlightened, tasted the heavenly
gift and partakers of the HolySpirit are not used in the Bible
to describe the experience oftrue believers, but rather
describe the experience of thosewho have had a superficial
exposure to the gospel.

(57:57):
The writer of Hebrews iswarning those who have had a
glimpse of the truth but havenot truly embraced Christ that
if they reject him they will notbe able to repent again.
So lots of different kind ofperspectives and highlights on
this.
But don't be disturbed, saints.
Like Mark said, we have tounderstand things within their
context.
I mean I could point to a verselike, for example and she shall

(58:20):
be saved through childbearingin 1 Timothy oh, you're saved by
having children saved throughchildbearing.
In 1 Timothy oh, you're savedby having children.
You know I could Head coverings.
Yeah, I could turn to thingslike that.
I could turn to things hewouldn't hang himself.
Yeah, go down and do likewise,playing Bible roulette.
But, yeah, but lots of verses.

(58:40):
If you don't eat of the fleshof the Son of God and drink His
blood, you have no life in you.
Oh, you died before you hadcommunion.
You're not saved.
So we have to understand thingswithin their context.
But this I love, these versesin 1 Thessalonians, 5, 23
through 25.
Now remember and in Hebrews,don't forget, I quoted it
already Hebrews 10, 14, and byone offering he has perfected

(59:05):
forever those who are beingsanctified.
We're perfected in Christ.
We have his righteousness.
Positionally, we're sealed andsecured.
But God sanctifies us and inthat process there's times we
fail, we stumble, we sin, but noone will snatch us out of his
hand.
Nothing will be able toseparate us from his love.
Now, 1 Thessalonians 5, 23 and24, now may the God of peace

(59:26):
himself sanctify you completelyand may your whole spirit, soul
and body be preserved blamelessat the coming of our Lord Jesus
Christ.
He who calls you is faithful.
Who also will do?

Speaker 3 (59:44):
it.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
There, my brothers and sisters, is your eternal
security.
He look unto him.
He is faithful, he will do it.
He's going to sanctify youcompletely.
He's going to preserve you ifyou're his.
So yeah, examine yourself tosee if you're in the faith.
Make your call and election.
Sure, If you live a life ofhabitual sin and you don't care

(01:00:07):
about it, you may not be saved.
But if you can look and you sayI hate my sin, I wish I could
never sin, I never want to sin,but yet you find yourself in the
process of sanctification,stumbling.
You are His and you are Hisforever.
So rest in that and let thatfuel you to draw closer to him

(01:00:28):
and walk more passionately inyour walk with him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
I heard someone once say if you're worried about your
salvation, it's a good sign youdon't have to be.
Yeah, I like that Good way toput it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
We hope you've been encouraged.
Friends, don't forget countyour blessings and stop
stressing the Living Waters Mug.
The Evidence Study Bible Living.
Stop Stressing the LivingWaters Mug, the Evidence Study
Bible.
Living Waters TV YouTubechannel.
That's a lot, oh well, andcheck it all out at
livingwaterscom.
Thank you for joining us,friends.
We'll see you here next time onthe Living Waters Podcast,

(01:01:04):
where Oscar, mark and Ray haveno idea what they're doing.