Ep. 340 - What is Christ Consciousness?

Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar dive into the rise of Christ consciousness, a concept gaining popularity in New Age circles and even surfacing in some evangelical conversations. This belief system claims that Jesus realized the Christ, expressed it, but was not the same as Christ Himself. Christ, in this view, is seen as a universal state of enlightenment or highest being—a form of Christian consciousness or self-realization accessible to anyone regardless of faith tradition. It’s a rebranded version of Eastern mysticism, offering spiritual bliss and inner godhood. The guys warn that while it may sound spiritual, it denies the heart of the gospel.

Christ consciousness redefines salvation as simply overcoming the illusion of separation from God, ignoring the reality of sin. But scripture presents sin as true rebellion against a holy and personal God. The gospel is about God stepping into time to rescue a lost people. Imago Dei speaks of our value and purpose, but the call is not to find ourselves—it is to lose ourselves and be found in Christ. The idea that Jesus is just an example overlooks His role as the only mediator between God and humanity. If He did not physically rise from the dead, then the Christian faith has no foundation.

The guys emphasize the deceptive nature of Christ consciousness. Forgiveness is redefined as a vague awakening, the crucifixion becomes symbolic, and resurrection is reduced to ego transcendence. Yet without the resurrection, there is no power. Christianity, by contrast, is about God reaching down to save. Ray and E.Z. share personal stories of witnessing to those caught in New Age thought. These individuals often long for spiritual healing, but have been misled. The guys encourage believers to listen well, ask thoughtful questions, and engage with gentleness and respect. Remembering that we too were once lost, Christians are called to love people practically and persistently. Finding common ground can open doors to share the truth of the gospel. People searching for Christ consciousness are often longing for something real—something only Jesus can provide.

The fullness of God dwells in Christ alone. New Age teaching fails to address sin, and no level of enlightenment can wash it away. Moral living may keep someone out of jail, but only the blood of Christ can rescue from judgment. The guys urge believers to stay grounded in scripture, recognize false teachings quickly, and never lose sight of the gospel. Any Christ that is not the incarnate Son of God is a counterfeit. Live in true awareness—not of yourself, but of Christ.

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Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're talking about this Christ consciousness, this
new age, this Gnostic feel ofenlightenment, but enlightening
to what it's become subjective,you want to be like Christ, but
which Christ?
And everything is just allabout me myself, and I right.
But there's a greater problemthat is associated with this,
because it undermines theatonement right, that

(00:21):
at-one-ment with Christ.
It doesn't deal with the sinproblem.
This is the biggest issue.
We produced.
Why Christianity?
A DVD, a booklet that you canget here at Living Waters, and
it says that there's so manygreat religions but there's only
one great religion.
Because this great religionChristianity.

(00:42):
It deals with man's biggestproblem, which is you have
sinned and fallen short of theglory of God, hebrews 922.
Without the shedding of bloodthere is no remission right.
So no amount of enlightenmentcan erase that stain of sin.
Only the blood of Jesus can dothis.

(01:02):
So you may look better than youwere yesterday.
It's kind of like AlcoholicsAnonymous, right?
They are forced, maybe by acourt order, to attend
Alcoholics Anonymous and youneed to get at one with your
inner self.
And now it's whatever yourhigher power is and you move
from one vice to the next vice.

(01:23):
That's all it is.
You're still dead man's boneson the inside.
Spurgeon said morality may keepyou out of jail, but it takes
the blood of Jesus to keep youout of hell.
Right, so we have to deal withit.
There's a bigger issue, abigger problem here.
Or as MacArthur put it thegospel is not about making bad

(01:44):
men better, but making dead menalive.
So you seem to be doing better,but what are you going to do on
that day when every idle wordyou have spoken is going to be
made manifest?
Everything ever done indarkness is going to come out
inside the light, and this iswhy we go through those
commandments, we get into thisargument about their philosophy,

(02:06):
but why not we just get down tothe foundation here, that
you've been weighed in thebalances of an eternal scale.
You've been found lacking, andyour only hope is found in Him,
who is our hope, which is Jesus,the Messiah.
The Messiah.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I'm hurt, I'm wounded , I'm offended, I'm heartbroken
and I'm extraordinarily cute.
Last night, mark Spence textedus an almost brilliant, a nearly
perfect, close to magnificentart piece of the four of us in
anime.
Oh, this is hilarious.

(02:48):
In anime okay, and notice, Isaid nearly, close and almost,
but it ended up being far fromall of that.
It ended up being horrendousbecause of the intentionally
hideous depiction of the mostimportant person on this podcast
.
So look at this, it's bigger.
Oh, thank you, oscar, here onthis podcast.
So look at this.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
It's bigger.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Oh, thank you there you go Okay, look at that.
Look at those buff, those manlyguys, especially the hair.
What's up with the hair?
Yeah, my hair looks amazing.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Why do you have to be so close, though I mean?
It's not bad, it justdemonstrates how terrible your
ego is.
I'm humble.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
You guys all look beautiful.
You look buff, bodacious hair,I appreciate that the scrawny
receding Arab in the corner.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
I look like Gollum.
I told you, it's realism.
I'm Gollum, it's realism.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
I text these guys and Ray says realism, it is.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, none of us noticed an issue, except you.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
I look like Gollum's uglier baby brother, look how
it's going downhill, oscar.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Mark, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Anyway friends.
Listener, if you haven't yetsubscribed to livingwaterstv,
this picture alone is worthdoing so you can see it was
intentionally done, because easy.
It looks like a meek, likefragile six inches tall.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
We really gotta use it for dying we have to yeah
maybe you can go on the shirtsfor g3.
Unbelievable that's genius.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
This is gonna be our shirts at g3 the banner, the big
banner so for those who can'tsee, it is an anime depiction of
the four of us.
Dragon Ball and Easy isincredibly accurately depicted
in it.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, see what I go through.
Friends, listen, if you wantyour picture shown and your name
made famous throughout theworld, send in accurate and
glorious drawings Like this oneOf humble and selfless me.
You can do that, friends.
Send it to us.
Podcast at livingwaterscom.
That's where you can send it.

(04:47):
Alright, friends, a cool,classy comment.
This is a card that we got.
We love things we can hold andsee.
Dear Ray, oscar, mark and Easyhow come you're not complaining?

Speaker 4 (04:59):
you're last in that little list.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Listen dear Ray, oscar, mark and Easy.
I wanted to remind Easy to stayhumble, so I put him last.
Oh, really.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Oh, that's funny.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
What do you mean?

Speaker 4 (05:11):
stay humble.
I mean get humble.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I can't get more humble than I already am.
We appreciate your ministry somuch.
Your podcast makes us laugh sohard, but, more importantly, it
has helped us grow closer to Godand each other in our first
eight months of marriage.
I'm both convicted andenergized by the important and
often difficult topics you cover, and I've even set aside my

(05:34):
fears and started handing outyour tracts, along with grocery
store gift cards, to homelesspeople in our city as a token of
our appreciation.
We made these stickers toremind you all how to sound like
Ray when you're speaking to thelost.
Seth 23.
Ellie, 22.
Mossberg how cool.
And then, once again, I amdissed, because there's one of

(05:54):
Ray, one of Mark, one of Oscar,none of the Arab cherub.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Really they didn't send you one.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
No one loves me.
This is the best, isn't thatcool, oscar?
We should hand her Oscar, mark.
They spelled it out the way Raywould say it.
That's how you say my name, ray.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Mark, mr Comfort, oscar, and then yep, right and
Eeg, you got your Eegs.
Eeg, I didn't say Eegs none ofyou none of me man, unless I
lost it no, no, you didn't.
We should email them, we shouldfly them in bad terrible people

(06:30):
like that so, guys, thank youso much for writing in.
Oh, and this is a mystery, Idon't know if our dear friend
sent these or someone else, butwe got back scratchers.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
Look at this did we mention back scratching?
I don't think we have yet.
Actually, I'm going to use mineas a fly swat.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Telescopic back scratches.
Aren't these cool?
Like I always say, scratch myback and I'll scratch mine.
No they're not.
Swords you children.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Like lightsabers Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Anyway, these lightsabers Unbelievable.
Anyway, these are pretty cool.
I'm excited to try it out.
Right, oscar, scratch my back,I'll scratch mine.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, that sounds about right.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Tsukasa, mikasa, mikasa, mikasa.
Yeah, all right.
And today, friends, we havewith us in the studio Brian and
Linda.
We have with us in the studio,Brian and Linda, brian was with
us on our South Pacific Rim trip.
He protected us.
Oh yeah, he was our protectionand we missed your beard, brian,

(07:35):
thanks for bringing it today.
It's glorious to have it, andLinda made a really nice comment
about me.
This is like destroy easy day.
We asked about my voice, oscarasked about my voice and she
said it's endearing now.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
The now stood up Now not before.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Alright friends, and now a radically revolutionary
resource.
This podcast is brought to youby the Musk Million Dollar, bill
Ray, was this your idea?

Speaker 4 (08:08):
Yeah, but with the Tesla burnings I don't know
where it's going lately have youhandled one out yet no.
You can mail them to people ormake them into a little paper
plane and send it to someone.
This whole thing is insane,isn't it?

Speaker 2 (08:20):
crazy.
What in the world is going on?

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
You know, I mean forget who it is, forget.
I'm just saying, like the factthat it's almost becoming
normalized to wreak havoc andvandalism, and it's crazy.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
It's more than vandalism.
Yeah, it's terrorism.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
I saw these people, I guess, protesting the whole
Tesla and they were all lined upalong this road and this big
dually truck with this blackexhaust coming out went jamming
right by him and just shovingthe black exhaust onto them.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Seriously.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, it was so funny .
Is this local?
I don't know, it was just avideo that I saw, was it?

Speaker 4 (09:00):
in LA?
Ray, I don't have.
Well, they wouldn't notice theexhaust.
If it was in LA, they wouldn'thave noticed the exhaust.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
What did you say about the exhaust in LA?
You?
Wake up early and you hear thebirds coughing.

Speaker 4 (09:11):
Yeah, I wake early in the morning and hear the birds
coughing.
It's so unique.
Yeah, where's that from?
Planes landed on Ray?
What happened we?

Speaker 2 (09:16):
used to have that can of L.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
It's right there.
It says Marmite, marmite, samething.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, marmite, no, I made this cartoon booklet.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
When I first came over a book that had planes
landing on the air, landing onthe smog and having to try again
to get through to LAX and stufflike that Also created the you
know the little snow thing, yousnow things, snowglobe,
snowglobe I did a Did it work.
Yeah, but I thought, then theministry opened to me and I
stopped doing silly stuff likethat.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
But yeah, it was a little picture of.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
LA and the globe, and you're shaking it and it went
all dirty.
Oh, that's actually brilliant,yeah, but it wouldn't sell well
as a souvenir.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
I don't know you think.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
It might.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
And I made the block, just a little piece of wood
with the wood around the block.
I mean, if uh crazy, uh petrock could take off, why?

Speaker 4 (10:10):
yeah, why doesn't it go run around the block wait?

Speaker 2 (10:12):
wait ray, was that your era?
The pet rock thing?

Speaker 4 (10:15):
it was, came just before it.
Yeah, did you have one?

Speaker 1 (10:17):
no, I didn't okay.
But, ray, did you have one?

Speaker 4 (10:19):
no, I didn't, I wouldn't want to pet rock okay,
had a leash on and take it for awalk each morning.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
You should put a pet rock on your bike with
sunglasses.
No, but seriously though,please help me understand what
was behind that insanity the petrock.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, seriously, people would hold pet rocks In
those days.
They didn't have toys andbatteries and stuff.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
Yeah, it was leftovers of the Toys and
batteries and stuff.
Yeah, it was the leftovers ofthe Toys and batteries.
The guy on an acid trip thoughtof it and people on acid liked
it, I guess.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
But did they actually sell it?
You buy the rock.
Yeah, the people who buy a rock.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
You just have pet rock on it.
You put it on your windowsilland it's my pet rock, proof of
the stupidity of humanity?

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Seriously, yeah, it is.
How do you really feel, though?
Easy, don't forget the muskmillion dollar bill track and
the living waters mug andevidence study bible on the
living waters tv, all at livingwaterscom.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Oscar, you're a good chanter I feel like I was in a
latin mass.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, that's what it was and don't forget the podcast
youtube channel because you getto see our lovely faces.
Yeah, it's got clips of thingsfrom the podcast, video and
audio, and it's got thousands ofsubs.
Will they get to see the backscratchers?
Join the crowd they might?
Yeah, we should put the backscratchers in.

(11:36):
Oh, that's edible.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
Stop licking it.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
All right, friends.
Today we're dealing with.
What is Christ consciousness?
Christ consciousness, and whatdo you mean by that?
Yeah well, I want to define itfor us.
But boy, this has become abuzzword.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
We've just moved from Jekyll to Hyde, a crazy man to
Mr Sobriety, talking about gooddoctrine.
Today we're talking about?

Speaker 2 (12:03):
yeah, Christ consciousness, Oscar, another
one of Oscar's brilliant ideas.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, it's been coming up quite a bit.
It's starting to become atrending topic, especially among
deconstructionists, though it'snot exclusive to people who
have deconstructed away fromChristianity.
It's a terminology that's beenaround for quite a while amongst
new age thinkers.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
That's for 50 years 40, 50 years.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
Richard Rohr is a popular writer in that world.
He wrote a book called theUniversal Christ.
Someone else summarized it bysaying this so this is in their
own words to help us understand,and I like this quote because I
think we can sort of unpackwhat's going on, because it can
be kind of confusing.
There are things that seem kindof redemptive but ultimately it

(12:50):
goes against things thatscripture says, and so here's a
quote.
When I talk of Christ now thisis a person who's deconstructed
it's usually not in reference tothe historical Jewish man named
Jesus.
Jesus knew, to the historicalJewish man named Jesus.
Jesus knew.
Listen, jesus knew the Christ,he expressed the Christ, he
realized the Christ, he embodiedthe Christ.

(13:11):
But he was not synonymous withthe Christ.
We tend to think of Christ heuses quotes there as his last
name.
Christ is more like a title, adescriptor, a category, a
quality, not a particular humanbeing.
He goes on to say that Christis a state of pure consciousness
, a state of holistic being, astate of unitive perception.

(13:33):
Some have described it asnon-dual, unitive consciousness.
We can explain that in a second.
Labeling it exclusively Christis also a bit of a misnomer, and
this is important, for it couldalso be called Krishna
consciousness, buddhaconsciousness, the Atman, the
all in son all, camille theMessiah, the true self, and many

(13:54):
other names, I feel like.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
I need to take a shower after hearing that, it
reminds me of that incident thatI what I subjected myself to
when I was about nine years old.
Remember my mom was out and Iwent to the kitchen and got
every ingredient out of everycupboard she had put it in a
huge bowl, stirred it up,everything, salt, pepper, flour,

(14:16):
jam honey, I've never, heardthis story, Ray?

Speaker 1 (14:19):
You've never heard it .
No, no.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
I was nine or something and I remember the
bowl.
It was a big bowl about 18inches wide, and I just kept
pouring every ingredient milk,everything, cheese, anything.
I just stirred it all up, putmy head into it and smelt it and
I'll never forget that horriblesmell.
And that's what this doctrineis like.
I thought you were going to sayyou ate it.
No, the smell put me off.
And the pepper?
I remember the pepper was thestrongest smell of everything.

(14:43):
It just overwrought everything.
I don't know why I did it.
What a bored child, what iswrong with you?

Speaker 2 (14:49):
What is wrong?

Speaker 4 (14:51):
with me.
You can write a book on that.
It'd be a good title for a book.
What is wrong with me?
But yeah, but that's what NewAge doctrine's like just to
throw in everything here and itstinks.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Right.
I think about what Paul saidabout Satan kind of driving us
away from the simplicity that isin Christ.
That is just a hodgepodge ofjust ridiculousness.
You know, I like how you gaveus clarity on that, oscar.
I want to read something.
I came across this commentatorwho kind of gave some insight on
Christ consciousness.
I think he had some good thingsto say.
He said the Center for ChristConsciousness defines Christ
consciousness as the higheststate of intellectual
development and emotionalmaturity.

(15:31):
They go on to claim that Jesusachieved this higher state of
being.
No, achieved this higher stateof being in his human life and
was given this term Christbefore his name, as the
recognition of his achievementof his spiritual status.
I can't help but laugh.
This path is open to anyone,regardless of their religious
tradition, if and when he or sheis open to become a living

(15:54):
vessel of love and truth on theplanet and actively strives to
attain it.
Another site defines it thisway Christ consciousness is the
state of awareness of our truenature, our higher self and our
birthright as children of God.
So again, just yeah, basically,in a sense it's not new, so to

(16:15):
speak.
It's a form of Gnosticism in asense, but it's come up again.
Yogapediacom.
Yogapedia, you made that up.
This commentator highlightedthis.
He said Christ consciousness isan awareness of the higher self
as part of a universal system.
Although it can be interpretedin a number of ways, a common

(16:36):
understanding is that Christconsciousness is a state of
consciousness in which a personhas found self-realization and
unity with God or the divine.
It may also be used as asynonym for the yogic and Hindu
concept of samadhi or deepspiritual bliss.
Although Christ consciousnessis not intended to relate solely
to the personality of JesusChrist, its combination of

(16:58):
Christian language with Easternreligious and philosophical
concepts make it a controversialterm to some.
So, yeah, it's Easternmysticism, you know, in a sense
repackaged.
And, oscar, I'm glad youhighlighted Richard Rohr,
because he's like the guy.
I mean, he's the guy that'sreally kind of popularized it.
And Oprah latched onto it andthen that again put it massively

(17:20):
in the mainstream.
He said this.
He said this is Rohr.
He said the second coming ofChrist is you.
And the second coming of Christis still happening.
It's not one event, it's all ofhistory.
We, we are the second coming ofChrist.
And then he went on to say hesaid the Christ mystery is
whenever matter and spirit areoperating as one, and you're the
first generation that ever hada word for this.

(17:42):
At the moment of the big bangRay, you always talk about how
evolution is used as thefoundation for so much false
teaching.
There was no God, and then weare the definition of that.
It didn't start.
2,000 years ago, god startedmanifesting listen the God self.
The infinite, eternal life ofthe Trinity outflowed and

(18:04):
manifested itself in everythingvisible your eyes have ever seen
.
So I wanted to go through thatto give you, our friends who are
listening, kind of a grasp ofwhat this is all about.
Ultimately, oscar, it's the Godself, it's you being actualized
as God.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, let me try to be a little winsome here, in the
spirit of Paul in Acts 17,.
It's easy for us to laugh, andthere's aspects of this reality
that is humorous to us, but Ialso want to recognize that
there are so many people stuckin new age that have this

(18:39):
spiritual angst.
They sense a need to understandwhat's going on in the world
beyond just the material, and sothey're searching.
They desire to know somethingabout the world and themselves.
And ultimately, what we'retrying to show here is that this
direction leads you away fromthe truth, not into the truth.

(18:59):
I mean, I look at it like I tryto break it down in my notes
and different doctrinal beliefsand understandings, which is our
previous episode.
And so just one example is thatsalvation is redefined here,
which is that sin is now just anillusion of a separation
between us and God.

(19:19):
And salvation is now escapingyour own personal ego and
realizing you're not separatebeings but part of a divine
consciousness.
And I think of the movie Avatar, where they plug into the great
tree and they're one with theworld.
That's that separation and thenreunion.
And the reality is thatscripture reminds us that sin is

(19:41):
not just a mistaken perceptionor an ego issue.
Sin is a real rebellion againsta holy and good God, and
salvation is not about youkilling your ego, but about you
dying to yourself so that youwould be found in Christ, known
and loved by a true God, notjust some self-realized

(20:06):
consciousness.
The beauty of the gospel isit's not about you loving
yourself more.
It's about you realizing thatyou've rebelled against a God
who has stepped into reality tosave you because he loves you.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Amen, that's good, yeah, mark.
I think some will use what weoften reference on the podcast,
imago Dei, as sort of thisjustification Well, we're made
in the image of God, so we areGod.
Speak to that.
How does that differ?
What does it mean to be made inthe image of God and yet that
doesn't make us God?

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, that's quite the swing of the pendulum, right
?
You can't search for truth whenyou're comfortable in the
darkness and you reject thetruth altogether.
Being created and made in theimage of God means we're
self-aware.
We're different than theanimals.
We have moral values that areattached to the decisions that
we make, that we care about theright and wrong, not just have

(21:04):
these instincts.
I remember inside of college,when I was attending Golden West
College, there was a questionasked from one of the professors
what is the difference betweenman and animals?
And I remember a young lady hadraised her hand.
She says well, we'redomesticated, we use silverware.
And then she showed a video ofan animal using a stick, putting
it down inside of a hole andallowing the bugs to climb up

(21:26):
that stick, and then using thatand was eating the bugs that
were climbing up on that.
That's not what separates us,you know, from the animals.
We are all together different.
Galatians 2.20, it says I'vebeen crucified with Christ.
It is no longer I who live, butChrist who lives in me.
You know we're talking aboutthis Christ consciousness and

(21:48):
where they are attempting tofind themselves.
But it is the antithesis ofwhat Scripture says, because
it's not about finding yourself.
It's about losing yourself anddenying yourself.
It's not about attaining to alevel that you may be higher
above everybody else and havingthis gnostic thought.
I have this inside, informationthat you don't.
We are gods, and this is whatShirley MacLaine did.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
That's the name of the person I've been trying to
remember for the last 10 minutes.
You're welcome.
She's the goddess of the I amGod thing.
Right back from the 1960s shestarted it.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, there's a video of her on this precipice, of
this beautiful view outside ofthe ocean, or something, and she
says I am.
I am following those same words, the ego on me, I am, and
there's only room for one rightthe I am of Jesus.
He is the bread of life, he isthe shepherd, he is the vine.

(22:41):
He is the way, the truth andthe life.
If you're confused, he's thetruth.
Are you depressed and suicidal?
He's the vine.
He is the way, the truth andthe life.
If you're confused, he's thetruth.
Are you depressed and suicidal?
He's the life.
He is everything, everything inone that we will ever need.
And when we say that I am likeGod, you have to think of what
you're actually saying.
Remember when we were in SantaMonica and that individual.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
Larry.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I am the.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Lord, thy God, prophesying, and he's claiming
to be God, deep voice, ray, inthe midst of the tirade, I mean
this guy's going, he's waxingeloquent, prophetic.
It was like demonic right, ray,I mean this is very loud too.
And just going oh, I mean, I'msure most of the earthquakes in
California were caused by thisguy's voice.
And then, in the midst of that,Ray goes what's your name?

(23:28):
And he goes straight from oh,larry, larry.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
You don't feel much like God when you're talking to
Ralph on the big white phone.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
No, no, when you're throwing up.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, right, you don't feel much like that.

Speaker 4 (23:46):
I remember that moment.
The pastor said that we're inhis car.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, you don't need to bring that up.
No, you already did bring thatup.
You already got that off yourchest.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
I've got to say something about Shirley MacLaine
, though she thought she was Godand was arrogant in that I sent
her one of my books when wefirst came over here and she
wrote a handwritten thank younote back to me which I've never
forgotten.
So she's got a humble heart.
What did it say?

Speaker 2 (24:07):
I really enjoyed the fact.
Wait, shirley MacLaine, yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
She had a handwritten letter saying I really
appreciate you seeing me?

Speaker 2 (24:12):
No way, shirley, you jest.
Yeah, you're building up andyou'll never forget.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
So what did she say?
That's pathetic.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
I really you've taken the time to send me your book.
It was.
I've forgotten the title.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
How to Train your.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
Memory Wow.
It was all about the MacArthurPark experience.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Someone Left the Cake Out in the Rain.
That was the name of the book.

Speaker 4 (24:33):
This was a long, long time ago, oh yeah, like 34
years ago so anyway, that'spretty tough.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
She's 90 years old.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
Yeah, she's really lost it.
Many shall come in my namesaying I am the Christ, and
we're seeing that fulfilled inthe New Age movement, people
saying I am God.
Jesus isn't the way, he's justan example.
And yet scripture adamantlydenies that right to the T.
Neither is there salvation inany other.
There's no other name underheaven given among men whereby
we must be saved.

(25:00):
He that abides not in thedoctrine of Christ has not God.
I think it says whoevertransgresses and abides not in
the doctrine of Christ has notGod.
I am the way, the truth and thelife.
No man comes to the Father butby me.
So he is the mediator betweenman and God, not just a good
teacher, but God manifest in theflesh.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, and on top of that he said John 14, 6,.
I am the way, the truth and thelife.
No man comes to the Fatherexcept through me and women and
women.
And you know it's basicallyit's trying to circumnavigate
Christ and to say not only can Iget to God, because they'll use

(25:40):
all this weird jargon, you knowthat's all muddled and mixed.
So they'll say God, and thenthey'll say but we can become
God Versus no.
What's the saying?
There's a God and you're nothim.
If there's anything that's true, there's a God and you're not
him.
And the only way you can get tohim is through the God-man, the
mediator between God and man,jesus Christ.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
Yeah, and it brings some sobriety to this whole
thing.
The Bible says the things thatthe Gentiles sacrifice to don't
sacrifice to God, they sacrificeto demons and so this whole
thing is demonic.
And you can see how demonic itis because many a time on
Huntington Beach Pier I've goneto interview some lady who's in
her maybe mid-50s and she justlooks like a New Ager and she's

(26:23):
sound even before we start.
And she is Because it's soprevalent in Southern California
.
People will be involved in NewAge and when we get to the
gospel you can see thecontention, the spiritual battle
going on with someone who's NewAge because, it really is
demonic.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Mark's favorite thing is the fact that patchouli is
associated with New Ageism a lot.
This is true.
Mark loves patchouli.
No.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
I don't you still love patchouli, Mark?
No, I ban it from my house.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
I think one way of understanding their view of
spirituality is that Christconsciousness is like this great
spiritual river.
In your understanding ofyourself, your ego, it's like
this fork away from the river,and so to be more like a Jesus
figure is to reattach yourselfto this great spiritual river

(27:10):
that's out there.
And a part of the challenge isso many people who view the
world this way reinterpretthings that the scripture tells
us, and this is kind of whatyou're alluding to.
They reinterpret things thescripture tells us to mean
something totally different.
So, for example, thecrucifixion.
Someone would view thecrucifixion as a symbolism.
Jesus didn't die for sins.

(27:32):
He showed us how to crucify ourego.
So when Paul says I've beencrucified with Christ, he's
referring to his own ego.
But of course, to spiritualizethe cross is to drain it of its
power.
The view of the atonementAtonement is about divine
awareness.
Of course, to spiritualize thecross is to drain it of its

(27:53):
power.
The view of the atonementAtonement is about divine
awareness and Jesus helps usrealize that we're really not
separated from God.
But of course, this distortsboth sin and grace.
Forgiveness is seen as a greatawakening to understand your
consciousness, seen as a greatawakening to understand your
consciousness.
But real forgiveness faces evil, absorbs the cost of sin and
chooses mercy.
And finally, the resurrection.
It's not physical, according tothem.

(28:16):
It's symbolic.
Resurrection means awakening tothe divine self, the defined
now.
It's transcending ego intooneness.
But if Christ wasn't bodilyraised from the dead, then our
faith is futile.
Christianity's resurrectionhope is not like this great
metaphor to help us be at moreone in peace with ourselves.

(28:40):
It's an embodied, renewed,ongoing death itself.
The early church didn't risktheir lives.
The apostles, they didn't risktheir life over symbolism.
They risked their lives andeven died because Jesus actually
rose from the dead.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, that's good.
You know, Mark, there was anapologist years ago that used to
use this, saying it's the skinof the truth stuffed with a lie.
What in the universe Is thisRay's valet service?

Speaker 4 (29:16):
Taking your jacket off.
I was helping him take hisjacket off.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Hey, I want to be a servant.
You done with your plate, yeahright.
Mark the skin of the truthstuffed with a lie.
What?
Oscar just read reminds me ofthat, Because you're using
terminology which looks like thetruth it's the skin of the
truth, but it's all infused withlies.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, and this is what 2 Timothy 3 talks about,
for men will be lovers ofthemselves, having a form of
godliness.
It's the same concept.
Right, there's the outside.
It looks good.
Right, it's like plastic fruit.
You've been fooled with plasticfruit.
I grab a hold of that orangeand there's just nothing there.

(29:59):
There's this form of godliness,but it denies its power.
Someone said beware ofspirituality that starts with me
, myself and I.
And that's really.
Someone said beware ofspirituality that starts with me
, myself and I.
And that's really what allworldviews outside of
Christianity is.
It's all about me attaining me,trying to.
What is it?
Religion is man's attempt toget to God, but Christianity was
not God's attempt, but that'sthe terminology.

(30:20):
God reaching down to man, getdown to man, right.
So, dietrich Bonhoeffer.
He said when Christ calls a man, he bids him to come and die.
So there is not anything aboutthe New Age religion, which has
this form of godliness that wecan't attach to.
And remember if you're notmeditating on truth, you're
going to believe lies are true.

(30:41):
So we need to get past theseInstagram reels, which is where
we tend to get our news from,and open up God's Word and say
search me and try me.
I get my news from TikTok,tiktok yeah, much different.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
It's really easy to get swept up by these false
doctrines.
Oscar alluded to it being likea river.
I was thinking you see so manypeople, especially on the
Weather Channel, try and make itthrough a river in their car
and it's just up to the wheelsand suddenly they're swept away.
The whole family goes down theriver and there's powers

(31:17):
involved that we don't knowabout.
If you don't embrace the truthand you love a lie, you'll be
given a strong delusion.
Scripture says in Thessalonians.
And so what New Age does?
It denies that Jesus is uniqueas the Christ and the Savior.
It teaches that humans aredivine, contradicting Scripture.
It rejects salvation by gracethrough faith and replaces it
with self-enlightenment.
And that's the basis of it.

(31:39):
It's rooted in human pride.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, and you know, I've always found that with so
much false doctrine that it endsup leading to sexual immorality
.
You know, when you look at likea lot of these cults, cult
members, there's alwayssomething tied into that.
I witnessed to my first modernday Gnostic.

(32:01):
Luke and I were coming backfrom our trip to Louisiana and
our Lyft driver was taking ushome, so I started to share the
gospel with him and he washesitant.
He's like yeah, yeah, I haveanother religion, you know, and
he was a Hispanic guy.
English was a bit broken, itwas hard to fully understand him
, but ultimately he goes yeah, Iam a Gnostic.
I'm like what?

(32:21):
He's like yeah, gnostic.
I had to have him spell it tomake sure I understood what he
was saying.
And why does it start with g?
Right, and so he.
But he goes on to talk againabout every way leads to god.
Every way leads to god.
I thought this is perfectbecause I'm sitting in the back
seat and I'm looking at his gps.
On the screen we're heading,heading 55 north, and I said hey

(32:44):
, if you take 55 south, willthat get you to my house?
He's like oh well, you know.
And I'm like no, there's onedirection that you have to go in
in order to reach it.
You can't just say, oh, I'mgoing to do what I want and
that'll get me to your house,and so.
But ultimately, something hesaid in the course of our
conversation again highlightedthe fact that there's some form

(33:07):
of sexual immorality tied intothis, and we see that.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
Idolatry is the root cause of so much sexual sin,
Because you see it in the OldTestament.
They strayed away from God.
Moses is up in the mountaingetting the commandments.
They forgot Moses and wentstraight into idolatry and then
an orgy.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, and what's part and parcel with sexual
immorality is covetousness, andScripture says covetousness is
idolatry.
It's putting any desire aboveGod and that which is holy
unholy above that which is holy.
So yeah, so, mark, I'm curiouswhat you think about this,
because it's become a buzzword.

(33:45):
So, mark, I'm curious what youthink about this, because it's
become a buzzword.
Christ consciousness.
But people, even within someevangelical circles I've heard
it used but they think of it aslike oh no, I'm conscious of
Christ, but it's not that right.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Well, it depends on the person who now you're
talking to, right, because it'snot about self-discovery, it's
about self-denial.
So you could come acrosssomeone who's just kind of
ignorant when it comes tocertain things, and this is why
it's so important, when we'reout sharing the gospel with
people, when somebody asks aquestion, to not quickly answer
it.
Just what do you mean by that?
Because we have to be graciousto people who are on this

(34:24):
journey, trying to work throughthings, and they ask a question
that they haven't thought toodeeply about.
So what is the best way towitness to a Buddhist?
It's not the way you witnessedto the Buddhist last time,
necessarily.
Same way.
You don't witness to the Mormonthe same way you witnessed to
that Mormon last time.
We are called to be slow tospeak, quick to listen I mean
just quick to love, and we knowthat there's nothing more loving

(34:47):
than to give somebody truth.
But let's listen to the journeyas much as possible, depending
on that time restraint, allowthem to talk and then to slowly
begin to work into what they'resaying, with good questions,
good answers to what's going on,good questions, good answers to
what's going on, ray, there's aconfidence, isn't there, in

(35:07):
having the truth.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
I mean, honestly, I think, as believers, there
should be a certain element ofease about us because we know
the truth.
I mean it's like someonearguing a point that you know
they're 100% wrong on and youactually have the evidence to
show them, and it's like rightthere sitting in your phone,
you're ready to show them.
You're not Trying to jump inand you know and like, argue and

(35:35):
get intense, but you just okay,let them go.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
It's like Mark and I, whenever you mispronounce
Augustine, augustine, let themgo.

Speaker 4 (35:43):
So when you're in a battle, people are throwing
stones at you and you knowyou've got 10 great cannons
right behind you.
Sorry, in front of you.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Right behind you To push you along.
Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying, I'mjust saying that like I love
what you both highlighted, right.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
You being who.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Oscar and Mark.
Oscar and Mark, right likebeing who?
Oscar and mark?
Oscar and what is his name?
Get mentioned first.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
uh, mark and oscar, easy easy, easy mark and
sandwiched, yeah.
So anyway, um you were sayingoh, you're really smart, really,
really brilliant.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
So, oscar and mark, both of you guys highlighting
the fact that, look we, we needto be careful how we come off,
because we've seen certainpeople handle unbelievers in a
way that is, let me just say,clearly disgusting in the sight
of God, and I can say thatconfidently, because it
contradicts Scripture.
And a servant of the Lord mustnot quarrel but be gentle,

(36:39):
patient, able to teach inhumility, correcting those who
are in opposition.
Make the most of your time withoutsiders, redeeming the time.
Let your speech always be thegrace, seasoned with salt, that
you may know how to answer eachone, even when Peter talks about
giving an answer for the hopethat is in you, you get with
gentleness and respect.
So we have to remember that.
It's easy to be like, well,that's pretty stupid, what do

(36:59):
you think about that?
Do you think about it?
But just to be like, hey,they're blind, like we once were
, they're lost, like we oncewere.
And then, mark, what you'resaying about not letting every
conversation have to necessarilybe this package?
Of course there's going to bethings we'll say that are
similar, because it's a newperson, but it's that
disposition and demeanor thatconveys to that unbeliever.

(37:22):
I care about you.
You're an individual in frontof me.
I'm not rattling off somememorized speech just so that I
could put you as a notch on mybelt.
Like I care about you.
You know, I see that with Ray.
Like Ray will say a lot of thesame things, but every time I
hear him it's like the firsttime and you say to the person

(37:43):
listen to the earnestness in myvoice, I care about you.
I mean Ray, that's prime.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
Yeah, and often I've noticed.
It just happened again theother day where someone who's
contentious, we go through thecommandments into grace and
suddenly they get the revelationthat I'm not trying to convince
them of anything, I just careabout them and the fact that
they're in great danger.
In fact I likened it to a youngman.
I said to him what culpabilitydo I have if I see sharks in an

(38:09):
area that you're going to swimin?
Do I have a moral obligation towarn you?
He says yeah, I said what?
Say there's a big notice upthere that says sharks do not
swim, but you still go in.
Am I then culpable?
And he said no, that noticeshould be enough for me.
And then went through thecommandments and I said, um, do
you see a danger?
And he says no, not really.
I says, well, you've got a bigshark notice, a warning, and

(38:30):
it's your conscience.
You need me, need me to tellyou that you know that's your
warning and you've transgressedit and you're in great danger.
And afterwards he just hungaround.
He should have just left afterwhat I said to him he can get,
get out of here, but he wouldnot.
It almost becomes a point ofembarrassment where they just
stay around and the conversationdries up and they're just
standing there and it's becausethey feel the love of God.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
You know, I watched a video yesterday.
It just came up in my feed andit was this young man who was
talking to a girl who was sayingshe was bisexual and he was
sharing the gospel with her.
But he was so loving buttruthful right, there wasn't
compromise in it, but very, veryloving.
And this other guy comes up andhe's trying to help the girl
and he's trying to escort heraway from the man and she goes

(39:15):
no, no, no, and she pushed himoff and kept listening and at
the end she demonstratedgratitude.
And it reminded me, ray, of aencounter you had the guy, the
guy who wanted to get away fromyou, and he was just had enough
and he said I haven't, I haven't, uh, killed anyone yet, or so,
or I haven't broken the rock.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
Yes, that meant so much to me.
When he said yet I thought, boy, he's angry.
And do you remember?
It showed what the lips do whenyou're really agitated you
don't just pull them in, but youpull them in a long way.
That means you're really upset.
And he was doing it, but hecame around.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
I think he said you made my day or you saved the day
.
You saved the day.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
And then, with a lot of passion, he said it again.
You saved the day, and I thinkhe was considering suicide.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
He was actually homeless, living in his car and
really upset about it, and thenI showed him love practically
afterwards.
Yeah, that persistence of loveand yeah, remembering that, call
Ray.
I love what you said.
You know practically becausewhen you look at Jesus in Mark 6
, you know he looked at themultitude, he was moved with
compassion for them and it sayshe taught them you know many

(40:27):
things, but then he fed them.
He fed the multitude, he feltcompassion for them and so it
was the truth, but mixed withgood works.

Speaker 4 (40:36):
I'd love to have been there.
Would that bread still havebeen warm?
Straight out the divine ovenFood and sourdough pre-buttered.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
And what?

Speaker 4 (40:45):
about the fish, the multiplying of the fish, Were
they gutted Yellow tail bellySushi Blue fin Blue fin Tuna the
best.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
With the yuzu sauce right on it.
Ray, we've got to get you intosushi.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
I've had sushi in Japan in the airport it was nice
.

Speaker 4 (41:01):
You guys are so easily distracted.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Another aspect you mentioned just having compelled
with compassion.
Another way of doing this in aloving way is to find common
ground.
Often, when we hear people saysomething that's wrong, we want
to jump right in and be likewell, how do you know that's
right?
Or well, where do you get yourinformation from?
And we want to get into debatemode rather than trying to find

(41:24):
common ground to draw them in tothe truth, beauty and goodness
that's offered in the gospel.
And so one example of that ifyou're talking to somebody about
christ, consciousness and etc.
Etc.
To start simply complimentingthem, man, I can tell you care
deeply about spiritual things.
Where do you?
And then you know?

Speaker 4 (41:42):
another example I really like your 14 inch blue
mohawk another.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
Another way of doing it is is like asking the
question of curiosity in regardsto what they're searching for.
You know, like, how do you?
What is it like to feelseparated from what you call
christ consciousness?
Because, ultimately, whatyou're doing is you're trying to
discover an aspect of theirlife that is searching for
something, and then from thereyou can pivot into the actual

(42:09):
truth.
Ultimately, I can't help butwonder that so many people in
new age, they sense their needfor something.
They know they're sick andthey're looking for a cure.
They've just been sold snakeoil and we have the actual cure,
which is the gospel.
And so, instead of going inhard and fast and combative and

(42:32):
telling them they're wrong,listen to what they're looking
for and provide them the truth,beauty and goodness offered
through the gospel.

Speaker 4 (42:39):
I think in the book of Acts somewhere it says we're
groping.
I think it's Acts 17,.
Paul used the word groping inthe King James Version Searching
for God like a blind man.
Just groping and the scriptureyou quoted before the servant of
the Lord must not strive, butbe gentle unto all men.
We would treat a blind man withtremendous gentleness because

(43:01):
of his blindness.
If someone walked into thestudio and tripped over a chair,
I wouldn't say look, watchwhere you're going, buddy.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
After Mark stopped laughing, what would you do?

Speaker 4 (43:08):
Yeah, I'd say to myself this guy cannot see, and
the Bible says and except a manbe born again, he cannot see the
kingdom of God.
The God of this world hasblinded the minds of them that
believe not, and so that's whywe need to have gentleness,
because they cannot understandwhat we're saying yeah, and it's
easy to lose sight of theimportance of that because,

(43:29):
again, we always drift backtoward selfishness.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
I'm worked up, I don't like this and they're
coming at me a certain way, butwe need to set that aside and
look at them and think of them.
Colossians 2, 8 to 9, bewarelest anyone cheat you through
philosophy and empty deceitaccording to the tradition of
men, according to the basicprinciples of the world, and not
according to Christ, for in himdwells all the fullness of the

(43:58):
Godhead bodily.
I mean, it's interesting herebecause this kind of ties into
what we're talking about interms of the Christ
consciousness and new ageism,because it's a reminder that in
Christ dwells all the fullnessof the Godhead bodily.
But there's people who willcheat you through philosophy and
empty deceit and it's based onthe tradition of man, it's the

(44:19):
basic principles of the world,it's not according to Christ, to
the true Christ and Mark.
We come back again to being sofamiliar right with the
authentic that we recognize thecounterfeit.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Absolutely and let me take it a step further right,
with the authentic that werecognize the counterfeit.
Absolutely and let me take it astep further right.
We're talking about this Christconsciousness, this new age,
this Gnostic feel ofenlightenment, but, enlightening
to what it's become subjective,you want to be like Christ, but
which Christ?
And everything is just allabout me, myself and I.
But there's a greater problemthat is associated about me

(44:56):
myself and I, right.
But there's a greater problemthat is associated with this,
because it undermines theatonement right, that
at-one-ment with Christ.
It doesn't deal with the sinproblem.
This is the biggest issue.
We produced why Christianity?
A DVD, a booklet that you canget here at Living Waters, and
it says that there's so manygreat religions but there's only
one great religion, becausethis great religion Christianity

(45:20):
.
It deals with man's biggestproblem, which is you have
sinned and fallen short of theglory of God, hebrews 9.22.
Without the shedding of bloodthere is no remission right.
So no amount of enlightenmentcan erase that stain of sin.
Only the blood of Jesus can dothis right.

(45:41):
So you may look better than youwere yesterday.
It's kind of like AlcoholicsAnonymous, right?
They are forced, maybe by acourt order, to attend
Alcoholics Anonymous and youneed to get at one with your
inner self.
And now it's whatever yourhigher power is and you move
from one vice to the next vice.
That's all it is.

(46:02):
You're still dead man's boneson the inside.
Spurgeon said morality may keepyou out of jail, but it takes
the blood of Jesus to keep youout of hell.
So we have to deal with it.
There's a bigger issue, abigger problem here, or as
MacArthur put it the gospel isnot about making bad men better,

(46:25):
but making dead men alive.
So you seem to be doing better,but what are you going to do on
that day when every idle wordyou have spoken is going to be
made manifest?
Everything ever done indarkness is going to come out
inside the light.
And this is why we go throughthose commandments.
We get into this argument abouttheir philosophy, but why not?
We just get down to thefoundation here, that you've

(46:47):
been weighed in the balances ofan eternal scale.
You've been found lacking andyour only hope is found in Him
who is our hope, which is Jesus,the Messiah.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Wow, I love the fact that you mentioned that, mark,
because again, when we talkabout the denial of Christ, we
have to remember that that's adenial that has associated with
it important, priceless truths,and it's not just truths in the
theoretical realm, these aretruths that have life and

(47:24):
eternal shaping consequences.
So always connect the dots.
Don't just go by the facadethat you're seeing, because that
can, I think, delude us intoreally losing sight of the
urgency.
It's like, oh yeah, that'sChrist-conscious, but no man
that whoa I mean so profound.

(47:44):
You're denying the atonement,you're denying redemption,
you're denying the Redeemer and,in essence, you're denying the
God who's the author of allthose things.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
That's why we have to always work things back to the
gospel, amen, always.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yeah, and Oscar, I love what you're saying about
asking questions.
I found that to be huge.
I think I may have mentionedrecently one of the things I've
been asking people lately is whowould you say is the one person
in history who's impactedcivilization more than anyone?
And 99% of people automaticallysay Jesus.
And if they don't, you convincethem.
It's Jesus easily.

(48:19):
And I asked him what is themost important book in terms of
what's the most printed, themost translated, the most
purchased, the most read book inthe world?
Oh, the Bible.
And so you're asking questionsand then you tell them man,
don't you think it's reasonable,if Jesus is the most important
person that's ever lived and theBible's the most important book
that's ever been written, thatyou check it out?

(48:40):
And I've just seen people go oh, that does make sense.

Speaker 4 (48:43):
Never thought of that .
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
And so I think, asking even a question like this
to someone who's into the wholeChrist consciousness thing,
just saying hey, let me ask youhonestly, if you genuinely knew
like genuinely knew that someonebelieved something that was
wrong and that was harmful forthem, would you want them to
know what's true?
Would you wanna tell them?
Yeah, of course.
Well, how about you?
If you believe something thatwas wrong, would you wanna know?

(49:07):
Yeah, absolutely, man, that'sall I'm doing with you.
I care about you and Iunderstand you believe that I'm
wrong.
I'm open to listen to you.
I'm not shutting down.
I want to hear what you have tosay.
Honestly, share it with me.
I'm curious when do you getthis from?
But that's where I'm comingfrom, because I'm concerned
about you and I'm just sothankful you're open to this
respectful dialogue.

(49:27):
Talk like that makes people puttheir guard down and open up,
and then you enter in with truththat makes people put their
guard down and open up, and thenyou enter in with truth and it
helps have

Speaker 1 (49:38):
a dog wearing sunglasses.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
I was reminded the other day some I I came up to a
girl.
I said you want to come oncamera?
She said no, I'm too shy, andI've been talking to her for
about a minute yeah before thiscame up and I said you're not
shy, you're talking a completestranger.
She says, but you've got a dogwith sunglasses on and that
changed everything for her and Iremember another guy.
He came on and did an interviewand I said you so readily did

(50:00):
the interview.
And he said to himself I thinkI mentioned this before how
could you be so bad if you'vegot a dog wearing sunglasses and
so it breaks down thosebarriers for me?

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Yeah, we're giving criminals ideas.
Now, ray, you gotta keep addingstuff to Lucy.
Next do a hat, then shoes.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
No, no, make her a clown Sunglasses does it, it
does it 2 Corinthians 11, 3 and4.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Shows how spiritual this is when it comes to the new
age.
But I fear least, somehow, asthe serpent deceived Eve by his
craftiness, so your minds may becorrupted from the simplicity
that's in Christ.
For if he who comes preachesanother Jesus whom we have not
preached, or if you receive adifferent spirit which you have
not received, or a differentgospel which you have not

(50:42):
accepted, you may well put upwith it.
And so it's a different spirit,it's a spiritual battle.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
New.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
Age teachings preach a false Jesus.
It's not biblical.
In 1 Timothy 4, verse 1, itsays Now the Spirit speaks
expressly and in the lattertimes, some will depart from the
faith, giving heed to deceivingspirits and doctrines of demons
.
And that's really what it'sabout.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Yeah, and doctrines of demons.
That's so important tohighlight because the author of
those doctrines, the true headdemon.
He can disguise himself as anangel of light.
So it's not Again.
Some of it can seem soappealing.
If you let go of yourconsciousness of the true Christ
and His Word, it's easy to belike oh yeah, but it's not

(51:29):
offensive.

Speaker 4 (51:29):
There's no sin, righteousness or judgment about
it.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
I don't know if you gave the right reference, Ray,
but the one about Satan, thesimplicity of Christ, that was 2
Corinthians 11, 3-4.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
What did I say?
I don't know.
I thought he said that.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
In Doctrines of Demons.
That was your rap group name,right.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Yeah, we like to rap and we like to rhyme.
In fact, we do it all the time.

Speaker 4 (51:50):
I was watching an atheist church service recently
that was highlighted on nationaltelevision.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Atheist church service.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
I'm not kidding they meet.
You could just sit and watch itand you would think this is a
normal church service.
Guys up the front playingguitars, people singing people
giving testimonies and they saidafterwards this is just like a
Christian church service, exceptwe don't say you're going to
hell.
And that really summed it up.
It's just embracing something.
That's not a love of the truth.
Do they take up offerings?

(52:20):
Yeah, everything was just likean ordinary church service.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
And now for the reading of Richard's words.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
Kind of like that too the reference books instead of
the Bible 1 John 4, 2-3,.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
By this we know the Spirit of God.
Every spirit that confessesthat Jesus Christ has come in
the flesh is of God, and everyspirit that does not confess
that Jesus Christ has come inthe flesh is not of God.
And this is the spirit of theAntichrist, and this is the
contradiction, right?
I mean in that, and this isconnected to this basically,

(52:53):
what's being implied is no, thiswas not the Christ who came in
the flesh.
He wasn't the incarnate Son ofGod.
He had Christ consciousness andwhatnot.
And that's how you know.
Anyone that denies the bodilyincarnation of Christ is not of
God.

Speaker 4 (53:11):
Antichrist.
Correct me if I'm wrong, butthat in the original Greek
doesn't mean in place of Christ.
Antichrist doesn't mean against, but in place of it is against.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
I was told there'd be no testing today.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Yeah, that's a good question, Ray, I'm not sure
exactly on that, but Acts 4.12,.
Nor is there salvation in anyother, for there is no other
name under heaven given amongmen by which we must be saved.
It's Christ, and we need toremember that.
Oscar, what do you do whensomething like this creeps into

(53:49):
family?
Because I think sometimes weoverlook that when we talk about
evangelism, often on thepodcast, I think we're thinking
about those that are out andabout, but man, sometimes for
those listening, this has hitclose to home with family, and
sometimes it's not just family.
That's like siblings, peer topeer.

(54:12):
It's not just your children,where you're an authority,
sometimes it could even be yourparents, your grandparents.
Like, how do you appeal topeople above you or below you?
In that sense?

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Yeah, first thing is you write them out of your will.
No, no, actually, it's funnythat you bring that up, because
I had a close family member who,over the last couple of years,
really started to lean.
I mean this, this you knowparticular person got baptized
when they were 12, 13 years oldand then, um, you know, when we

(54:44):
lost somebody in the family,they started moving away from
their uh, their proclaimedchristian faith and into new age
.
Ism started, you know, thinkingcrystals were the answer and
and, uh, just moving in thatdirection.
And I sat down with them, um,over a meal, bought it for them
and walked through, um, really,the kind of conversation that

(55:08):
we're, having now asked a lot ofquestions, tried to show them
that what they're longing for isactually found in the gospel,
and we had several conversations.
At some point it became clear tome that they weren't interested
in having that conversationanymore, and so I've said this
before evangelism and preachingthe gospel is like an iceberg.

(55:29):
It's the 20% you can see abovewater is your action.
It needs to happen but 80%behind your action, unseen, is
your prayer life.
You should be praying for thepeople you're preaching to.
And so I quietly preached, uh,I quietly prayed, and prayed,
and prayed and I can say, by thegrace of God, this person, um,

(55:53):
you know, either repented of andcame back to the Lord, or just
recently got saved and baptizedand is a member of a local
church and is raising theirchild according to God's word.
And that's not because I did itwell, I was faithful with the
truth and then I earnestlyprayed for years for their

(56:13):
salvation and God is faithful.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Amen.
Praise God, good, good word,good encouragement.
And, guys, there's hope,because there are people who
were entrenched in that world.
Our good friend Trevor Sheetshis wife Ashley.
She came out of that and Godgave her a platform where she
was ministering to people DoreenVirtue that we know, who's a

(56:36):
friend of our ministry.
She came out of that wholeworld.
She was actually like a guru,she was a top.
She said this it was a gurid, agurida.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
Gurida.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Christ consciousness is a make-believe concept with
no basis in the Bible or reality.
It is one more New Age teachingto try to elevate people.
Wow, that's what Doreen said.
It's true MacArthur said thebiblical Jesus is not an
abstract force or a cosmicprinciple.
He is the incarnate Son of God,who lived, died and rose again

(57:07):
for our salvation.
Any other Christ is a deception.
That's what it is.
Then, rc Sproul, to defineChrist apart from his atoning
work, his divine nature and hisrole as Lord and Savior, is to
create a false Christ, one whocannot save.
That goes back to what we'resaying.
You connect the dots andultimately, yeah, I connected
the dots with.

Speaker 4 (57:27):
The Antichrist means against Christ or in place of
Christ, which is what Christconsciousness does.
Gives you another Jesus, thespirit of another Jesus.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Right, that's good.
And then finally, by way ofquotes, our good friend Justin
Peters.
He said New Age spiritualityhas tried to hijack the name of
Jesus and redefine him intosomething he is not.
It's really well put Christconsciousness is nothing more
than repackaged Gnosticism andEastern mysticism.
So we have to know that,because the scriptures,
especially 1 John, says a lotabout Gnosticism and that can

(57:59):
help us.
But, guys, I want to close, doyou want to define Gnosticism?
Yeah, so Gnosticism basicallyhas at its root a denial of the
incarnation of Christ.
It has at its root the denialof really the importance.
It has connected to it reallyalmost an element of
antinomianism, because it deniesthe importance of living a

(58:24):
righteous life, because theyacknowledge the flesh as being
evil and so anything that you doin the flesh it doesn't matter,
because it's evil already.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
That's really good.
Gnosticism is a form ofantinomianism.
Now, what's antinomianism?

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Antinomianism is yeah , another way of defining
Gnosticism is the Gnosticsdenied the.
If you recall, we believe thatJesus is 100% man and 100% God,
and so the essence in thebeginning of the heresy of
Gnosticism started when theystarted denying the madness of

(58:59):
Jesus and they thought of it aspurely spiritual, and that moved
them into the idea thateverything physical is of the
devil and that we need to sortof move more towards the
spiritual realm, yeah, andbasically Christ as an emanation
of God, but not himself theincarnate.

Speaker 4 (59:17):
So this, what we've discussed today, reminds us the
importance of soaking ourselvesin Scripture.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Amen, that's right.
And I just want to say, I think, on a closing note, the
importance for us as believers,to live in true consciousness of
Christ oh, I see what you didthere.
You know what I'm saying thefact that what as a part of the
Great Commission, and lo, I amwith you always, that's for sure
, people, even unto the end ofthe age, and that he will never

(59:45):
leave us nor forsake us.
Guys, we have to remember that.
I love this account given bysomeone a couple centuries ago.
He said the time of businessdoes not?
Oh, I'm sure he'd be thrilled tohear that You're quoting him
the time of business does notdiffer with me from the time of
prayer, and in the noise andclatter of my kitchen, while

(01:00:06):
several persons are at the sametime calling for different
things, I possess God in asgreat tranquility as if I were
upon my knees.
I love that that whole conceptof you can be in the midst of
the chaos of the world, but youpossess Christ in you with as
much tranquility as if you werein your prayer, closet on your

(01:00:26):
knees.

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
So who was this?
Because you're aware of him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
And then listen to this.
This is John Wesley.
His heart is ever lifted up toGod at all times and in all
places.
In this he is never hindered,much less interrupted by any
person or thing.
In retirement or company, inleisure, business or
conversation, his heart is everwith the Lord.
Whether he lie down or rise up,god is in all his thoughts.

(01:00:52):
He walks with God continually,having the loving eye of his
mind still fixed upon him andeverywhere seeing him.
That is invisible, ah thatwherever we are, he is there.
So that's Christ consciousness.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
That's what I thought we're going to talk about.
Dan had a right to you and sayis this new age or what?
Which direction are you going?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
well, it's shining a light on error and then ending
with truth that the trueconsciousness of Jesus is
remembering we are not him, wewill never be him, but he is
with us, he loves us, heredeemed us and he made us his.
So go with that, friends.
All right, that's the end.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
What just happened.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Don't forget Living Waters mug.
Don't forget the AdventistStudy Bible.
Don't forget Living Waters TV,livingwaterscom.
And what was the resource atthe beginning?
I can't even remember.
Was it the Musk Millions?

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
No, yeah, it was the Musk Million Dollar Bill track.
Wow, that was a long time ago.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
And don't forget, it's Musk Millions.
No, yeah, it was the MuskMillion Dollar Bill track.
Wow, that was a long time ago.
Easy as running out ofbatteries.
And don't forget, it's alllivingwaterscom, don't forget
podcast YouTube channel, friends.
We want you to check it out.
Thank you for joining us,friends.
We'll see you here next time onthe Living Waters Podcast,
where we have no idea what we'redoing.
Ooh, I like that, right, whatare we doing?
Ooh, I like that, ray.
Can you say that again, ray?
What are we doing?

Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
Coming to a theater near you soon.
That wasn't an Indian accent.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Oh, what are we doing ?

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
He's out of character .