Ep. 343 - How to Reach Jews for Jesus

Jeff Morgan from Jews for Jesus joins Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar to share his testimony and insights into sharing the gospel with the Jewish community. Jeff grew up in a Jewish household, celebrating high holidays and occasionally observing Shabbat. As a young adult, he pursued fame in Los Angeles but quickly became disillusioned with the cost of success. In search of meaning, he turned to new age spiritualism. Though the experience began with spiritual highs, it soon led to depression and suicidal thoughts. 

His life began to shift after meeting his future wife, who stood firm amid his struggles. At his lowest, he admitted to her that he didn’t know what he was doing and was being spiritually tormented. Shortly after, Jeff met a pastor at the gym, which led to conversations and prayer. Another gym-goer prayed over him, and Jeff began to feel life return. He started seeing Jesus everywhere and was invited to a church men’s retreat where the message on Jesus’ transfiguration transformed him. He rushed home to tell his wife, only to find she, too, had been experiencing encounters with Jesus. In a powerful moment, they both surrendered their lives to Jesus and were filled with peace. Jeff dove into Scripture, eventually joining Jews for Jesus to share his newfound faith.

Jeff, formerly the host of a vegan lifestyle channel, now uses his platform for evangelism, especially to reach fellow Jews. Sharing the gospel in Israel presents unique challenges—while religious freedom exists, insensitive evangelism (like megaphone preaching) can spark backlash due to the historical persecution of Jews in Jesus' name. Jeff emphasizes the importance of cultural sensitivity and authentic care when speaking to Jewish people. He offers practical advice for evangelizing to Jews: understand the Jewish context of Scripture, use terms like Yeshua, emphasize that faith in Jesus fulfills rather than abandons Jewish identity, and highlight Old Testament prophecies. Quoting passages like Isaiah 53 often prompts thought-provoking discussions. Jeff points out that the New Testament is deeply Jewish, starting with Jesus’ genealogy, and urges Christians to learn rabbinical interpretations and be led by love, not fear.

Despite occasional persecution—being spit at or having things thrown—Jeff sees increasing openness among Jewish people. Mark relates, sharing how his own Jewish in-laws have resisted the gospel but how he feels renewed conviction to persevere. The guys encourage believers: while the message of the gospel never changes, how we deliver it can make all the difference.

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Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, praise God, and also, you know, I just want to
say that, jews for Jesus.
It's really important becausewe understand that the Jewish
people are still considered anunreached people group.
So when you guys hear of thewords unreached people group.
What do you think of anunreached?

Speaker 3 (00:15):
people group.
Yeah, you think the 1040 windowand you think tribes and you
think Exactly.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
You'd never think the Jewish people Unreached.
They're not being spoken to,they're not being you know, and
we're a people that in Isaiah 52, blessed are the feet of those
on the mountain who share,publish peace, proclaim
salvation, good tidings, who sayyou know, zion, your God reigns
.
We're supposed to be a peoplethat are sharing salvation with

(00:40):
the world and so, as we see, youknow, the Jewish people as an
unreached people group.
We just encourage, you know itmay be intimidating, but speak
about him.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Mr Oscar Navarro, I don't know if you knew this, but
Elon Musk said this the otherday.
I don't know if you knew this,but Elon Musk said this the
other day, and I quote Navarrois a moron.
Navarro is dumber than a sackof bricks.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
I seen that via text, didn't I?
Yeah, you should giveattribution.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Ray Comfort sent me that.
Oscar, how's that feel to bereferred to as that by the
world's richest man.

Speaker 5 (01:24):
Our relationship is in a rocky spot right now.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
I would imagine it is Speaking of names.
Ray, didn't you one timewickedly decide not to pray and
then turned on the TV and heardyour name mentioned Something
about devious or something?

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yeah, yeah, tell us a story, ray.
Well, I've got up to pray.
I used to get up to pray untilI hit 70.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Now Ray.
For those of you that don'tknow, Ray is always in the
middle of prayer, right, markP-R-A-Y-E-R, did you get that,
jeff?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Ray is always in the middle of prayer.
Ray is in prayer wires in themiddle of prayer Go ahead, ray.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
So I used to get up and pray, and then one night I
did it for 38 years.
Around midnight One night Isaid to Sue, I'm not getting up
to pray.
And that night around midnightour bed collapsed Never
collapsed before, but itcollapsed.
And I think I learned my lessonwhen I was in, I think, Denver
and I was teaching missionaries.
In the middle of the night Iwoke up and I thought I should
pray.
I should pray, but instead Ithought no, I'd rather watch TV.

(02:24):
And in a split second I thoughtto myself, if there's something
bad on, I can change thechannel in a split second, even
before my conscience can speakto me.
So I turned the television onand a man came on with two women
, and one woman said to the manwhat about Ray?
And I thought, and he said,yeah, ray, the devious one.
And that's when I turned the TVoff and began to seek God in

(02:46):
prayer.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Didn't someone bang on your door once late at night?

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, I forgot about that.
Yeah, it wasn't someone bangingon my door.
I said tonight I'm not going topray, I'm going to sleep right
through.
Around midnight there was abang on the door.
It sounded like the FBI, it wasjust soap.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
It was my stupid dog leaning against the door and
having a scratch.
The moral of the story friends.
Ray hates prayer, that's true,but somehow God keeps him in it.
Yeah, boy, we need prayer.
Kylie, our daughter just hadher wisdom teeth pulled out and
she is going crazy.
You know when you're coming offthe.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
Well, that's what happens when you have no wisdom.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
The wisdom's gone.
She's like a drug addictScreaming it.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
I wonder where she gets that from.
I just realized that.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Oh boy.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
Is she okay?

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Not really.

Speaker 5 (03:41):
She should start a podcast, it would be real
successful?

Speaker 3 (03:45):
No, she's fine physically.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Strange.
What about previous generations?
Everyone have their wisdomteeth out or they survive.
Is this just a modern thing?

Speaker 3 (03:52):
It's just crazy, it's a dentist conspiracy to make
money.
Yeah, make big money.
I think it is too.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
It was horrific for me.
I remember it.
The worst part about it was theanesthesia.
I can't handle the anesthesia,should you?

Speaker 4 (04:01):
introduce this man easy yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
I'm not supposed to join the conversation.
Am I watching?
Am I talking?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
So tell us about the wisdom that is the voice of our
dear brother, jeff Morgan, whois with Jews for Jesus, and
maybe you're familiar with hisYouTube channel.
So Be it, jeff.
You're like half a millionviews, or subscribers, over
500,000 now.
Yeah, praise the Lord, yeah,and you're like 70 million views
.
Man, that's great, that's right.
So, Jeff's with us today andwe're going to be talking about

(04:29):
a lot of stuff, but go ahead.
You were talking about yourwisdom teeth, oh my wisdom teeth
.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
yeah, so that's when they took out all my wisdom and
you know, that's when I wentinto a life of sin and
degradation, you I started withthe anesthesia woke up threw up
all over the place in my mom'scar and that was it.
Wow, Right into a life ofdepravity.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
So how old were you when this happened?

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Last week.
No I was about 13, 14.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Okay, wow.
Well, it's good to have youwith us, jeff, but Jeff did not
come alone, friends.
Jeff came all the way fromIsrael.
Jeff came all the way fromIsrael.
His friend Joey came all theway from Las Vegas.
That's right.
Yeah, and we also have someFinnish friends Nina, julia,
sandra and Erica.
Welcome Blessed to have youladies, with us and you guys

(05:16):
listen to the podcast in Finland.
Nice, unbelievable.

Speaker 5 (05:20):
We only have four listeners in Finland.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
That's it, they're all here.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
And they all speak English and they were nodding in
English then.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, great to have you with us.
Ladies and Joey, thanks forcoming as well.
It's a blessing.
All right, friends.
Time for a cool, classy comment.
This came in the mail.
We love stuff in the mail.
Dear Ray, easy, mark and Oscar.
I was a very excited recipientof a Living Waters podcast
goodie box last fall and wantedto say a huge thank you for it.

(05:49):
I received an easy box and wasso happy to get my very own
Evidence Study Bible amongst ahost of other fantastic
resources to share the gospelwith.
Notice, no one ever mentionsyour boxes, guys.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
No, we just don't read them.
Just a side note.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Thank you so very much.
I have been using the studyBible for my daily readings and
strive to pass out the tract ona more regular basis in my
community and at my job as anurse at a local hospital.
I live in Canton, Ohio, home ofthe Football Hall of Fame.
If you ever would like a reasonto visit, we have lots of great
coffee shops here and the bestItalian on and the best italian

(06:25):
food is found in northeast ohio.
You are welcome to visit anytime.
Plus, canton is nestled in witha large rural community and
there's a large amish presence,giving you ray access to lots of
chicken and fresh eggs.
Got my, got my attention.
Yeah and ray, we'd shave yourmustache and you'd look like the
Amish.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
I've actually been in an Amish horse and cart.
Oh really, yeah.
Years ago I got to speak withsome of them.
It's not much fun following ahorse.
It looks romantic, but itstinks yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
They had this show they used to do, where they
would just trick out the buggiesand they'd make them all like
they looked like lowriderpantmime your podcast has been a
part of my weekly routine forthe past two years.
I listen in while taking walks,commuting to and from work and
around the house doing chores.

(07:20):
You each have contributed to mygrowth and knowledge of God's
Word and have challenged me inmy faith with your in-depth
conversations about theChristian walk.
I cannot tell you how manytimes I've been encouraged by
the laughter and experiences youall share with each other.
I feel like I'm spending timewith true brothers in Christ,
and it is such a rich blessing.
I pray for each of you and theLiving Waters ministry as you
boldly share Christ with thelost.
I have family in the LosAngeles area and I'm visiting

(07:42):
them for a few days this week.
I was hoping to hand deliverthis note of thanks to one of
you at the ministry office.
I really hope to meet you allone day on this side of heaven,
but if not, I will look forwardto eternity.
Many blessings to each of you.
When you feel discouraged,please remember there is a gal
in small town, Ohio, who hasbeen greatly edified by your
ministry.
God is using you in Christ, LizMartel.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
Thanks, Liz, that's nice I wish you.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Liz.
Thank you, liz.
Big, big blessing.
All right friends, and now aradically revolutionary resource
.
This podcast is brought to youby the Tract Starter Kit.
Why are you laughing, right?

Speaker 4 (08:18):
That's obnoxious, no no, no no, no, jeff, I warned
you.
I said this podcast is a bitcrazy, so please prepare
yourself.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
We're seeing it happen Jeff's psychiatrist
building will go through theroof.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Oh, no, no, I'm a bit immature.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
Oh nice.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
So I fit right in.
You're one of us.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Great the track sample pack Track sample kit
Track starter kit.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Why do?

Speaker 3 (08:38):
I always that other one last time.
Tract Starter Kit 350 tracts,million dollar bill, 10
commandments coins call me agood person tract and 101
world's funniest one-liners.
Don't forget the Living Watersmug, the Evidence Study Bible,
living Waters TV all that.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
Living.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Waters, that was good , that was a primate.
And don't forget, friends, ourpodcast YouTube channel
thousands upon thousands ofsubscribers.
Speaking of thousands ofsubscribers, we have, yes, our
friend Jeff with us.
Jeff.
What's?

Speaker 1 (09:14):
up Bro.
Welcome man.
Thank you.
It's an honor to be here.
I've been looking forward to it.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Although I'm not happy because, with you being
here today, that makes two Jewsand one Arab at the table.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Well, guess what we, you being here today, that makes
two Jews and one Arab at thetable.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Well, guess what.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
We have another one sitting right here.

Speaker 4 (09:27):
Oh no, three Jews and an Arab.
We're the majority today.
Yeah, three Jews walked into aBible.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
More Gentiles though.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
Well, brother, we are blessed to have you Blessed by
how God is using you man.
Yeah, you know.
Maybe some people may not knowyou by name, but as soon as it's
mentioned that you're the guywho talks to Jews in Israel
about the Messiah, andespecially using Isaiah 53, I
mean people instantly knowbecause those videos have gone

(09:56):
huge.
And yeah, thanks for joining us, brother.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Oh, my pleasure.
Yeah, we're really blessed.
And it's funny because we go toJerusalem sometimes and we
speak with Orthodox Jews.
We like to make goodconnections with them and we
like to go to the same place sothat they can get to know us a
little bit.
And so they call me the JewishJesus guy.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
Ah, that's the Jewish Jesus guy.
Sometimes it's derogatory butsometimes it's curious, they're
curious yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
It's a title that I wear.
You know, badge of honor.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Absolutely, it's a title that I wear Badge of honor
.
Absolutely.
Yeah, amen, man.
Well, that's great, and we'dlove to just get to know you
today, introduce our friends toyou and stir them up to
recognize that.
Look, it all started in Israel.
It all started with the Jew,first right, and then spread
from there to all the world.

(10:43):
But you're in a tough place.
We were talking about thisbefore we even came into the
podcast.
Israel is tough plowing.
Why don't you start off firstwith your testimony?
I take it you grew up in aJewish home.
I did.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Okay, so tell us, let's do it.
Yeah, so I did grow up in aJewish home.
There's different varieties ofJewish homes.
Mine was, I would say, veryculturally identified as Jewish,
but not religious.
You were Jew-ish, yes.

Speaker 5 (11:09):
Jewish-ish.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, and I liked it when I was young, but as I got
older I found it to be a bitoff-putting.
Only because, to me, when yougo to temple and synagogue and
you go through the high holidays, it's almost like you're
obligated to go and if you don'tgo then it's a bad, you're a
bad Jew and and so.
But my, my parents were greatand they, they gave us a nice
homes and they wanted us tofocus on our Jewish identity and

(11:34):
be involved in Jewish community.
Can I bottom?

Speaker 4 (11:37):
with a question Did you wear the hat and the curls
and all that?
No, no, I wasn't Orthodox.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
We had the yarmulke, or the kippah we so call it.
You know what?
That is right.
And so we would go to synagogueand I had my bar mitzvah and we
would celebrate the highholidays, passover and Yom
Kippur, the Day of Atonement.
And this was just life right.
And every once in a while, on aFriday evening, we'd have a
Shabbat dinner and we'd lightthe candles, say the prayers,

(12:06):
have the bread and the cup, andfor us it was just something
that we did, didn't really talkabout God much in the house at
all, and so when I left thehouse I was a bit insecure, like
most people are, but I think Iwas on the extreme end of
insecurity.
So I had a lot of skill insinging, dancing and the arts
entertainment, and so I thoughtyou know what, I'm gonna try my
hand at Los Angeles and try tobecome a pop star.

(12:28):
And so I go to Los Angeles andyou know it didn't take long for
me to find out that I didn'thave what it took, and not just
you know skillset wise.
You know I could sing, but Iwasn't a singer.
I could dance but I wasn't adancer.
You know I I was just good at alot of things, but what you're
required to sell there in termsof your moral values and your
soul in order to make it, Iwasn't willing to do.

(12:50):
I had the conscience within me,I had the 10 commandments on my
heart.
I didn't know it at the time,but I felt that certain things
that I just shouldn't do, and soI kind of broke down.
At that time I was starting toget into kind of like serial
dating.
I had some affection issues.
I needed affection and so Iwould always look everywhere for
affection.
So that got me into serialdating.

(13:11):
But I wanted to kind of show myfamily and my friends that I
could be this massive success inthe world.
And if it wasn't going to be inentertainment, I thought, well,
how else can I make a massivecareer and be successful and
basically show off and say, well, you know, my brothers took the
safe and secure route and wentto college and got married.
I went to college but I leftearly and my parents, you know,

(13:34):
they got married young.
I'm going to do the adventurousthing and I'm going to show
everybody how cool I can be.
So I dove right into this newage spirituality.
I started meditating like crazy.
Hour and a half a day I gotattached to a cult leader, this
older Asian guy.
I was, this young American,Jewish, white guy thinking, well
, I'm going to be the, he'sgoing to be my Mr Miyagi, and

(13:54):
I'm going to be.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
Daniel's son.
Is that what his name is?

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Karate Kid, Karate Kid right and I was going to
grow up in this and I was goingto be the coolest, most
self-actualized person on theplanet, and I was very arrogant
and narcissistic.
And I went into this and hadsome really incredible spiritual
experiences at first.
So I recognized that thespiritual world was real.
I knew that God existed.
I just didn't know who he wasyet.
And so I start getting intothis deep, deep meditation and

(14:19):
I'm in this for like an hour anda half a day, sitting in my
living room.
We're doing these weird poses,saying these odd mantras that I
didn't understand at all, andthis spiritual cult leader he
had complete control over me.
I mean, I was sucked in.
He was very charismatic,wealthy, single, isolated from
the world, and he had a lot ofwisdom to impart and I thought,

(14:40):
gosh, if I stay next to this guy, then I'm gonna know a lot
about life and I'm going to bevery smart and wise, just like
him.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Did he have a lot of other followers as well?

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Jack, Not many Not many, because I think people
were pretty turned off by it butI just got sucked right in.
I was vulnerable.
I wasn't taught the TenCommandments, I wasn't taught
the Bible no Bible in my home atall and to go into the world
and face things that looked goodbut obviously were of the dark,
of the darkness.

(15:08):
I didn't know how to recognizethat stuff, so I fell right into
it and this guy had totalcontrol on me.
He was in my mind, in mythoughts, and he had a God
complex, and so he thought hewas the second coming.
And because we had spiritualexperiences that were actually
real, I had outer bodyexperience.
I came up out of my body, Ifloated away, came back and came
in.
I wasn't sleeping and I thought,gosh, I'm really getting
somewhere and you should see me.

(15:28):
I was.
I would sit on my floor and tryto move a pencil with my mind.
I was just that's.
That's where I went.
But I was playing with Ouijaboards as a kid, getting, you
know, talking to dead people andand, and this primed me for
everything that was about tocome in and take control over my
mind and my soul, basically,and so, thinking that I was

(15:49):
really cool.
I was continuing with mymeditation and I would talk to
people and I thought I was gonnabe the guy that everybody would
come to for advice, forspiritual life lessons.
And I thought, well, maybe I'llbe a what do they call them a
coach, a life coach, when I getolder, and that's going to be my
success, tony.

Speaker 5 (16:08):
Robbins.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah something like that, that's going to be me.
I had his cassette tapes.
I'm aging myself, but I had hiscassette tapes in my ear Not
tall enough yeah yeah, right,yeah, he's pretty, and so this
leads into a 20-year.
I don't want to call it a stint, but it was a 20-year deep dive
into new age, mysticism, theoccult.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
I didn't realize it was that long.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
It was really long and it was arduous.
It was, I mean, like when youput a religion on your own
shoulders that you make.
Even though it's your ownmaking, it's still quite heavy.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
And so I wanted to make sure that I was doing the
right things, saying the rightthings, meditating the right
things, thinking the rightthings, because if I didn't,
something bad was going tohappen.
I was going to be cursed.
Little did I know, I wasalready cursed.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
This is karma so easy , yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
Right, let me interject there real quick, jeff
, and ask you so at this stage,and I want you to pick it up
from there in a minute.
But at this stage, did youachieve what you had hoped with
your family?
Were you gaining their respector were they thinking you're
crazy bro?

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yes, they were thinking that I was crazy,
because I said hey, guys, I'mdoing all these things and you
should do them too, because it'sgonna make you peaceful, it's
gonna make you happy.
And they would look at me andthey would see someone who still
wasn't happy, still wasn'tpeaceful and still searching and
were you working at all in theentertainment industry?

Speaker 3 (17:25):
I was working as a personal fitness trainer in
Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
And I would get occasional gigs, like a Levi's
billboard ad or some sort ofsport commercial from time to
time.
It was just enough to keep megoing and the spiritual aspect
of it also was enough to keep megoing, meaning I would have
these dry periods of nothing andthen something would show up
and I'm like I did that Icreated that I must be doing

(17:49):
something right.
So it kept me going and in thebeginning, when I was in my
twenties, it was great because Iwas single, traveling the world
and I was sitting on themountain tops in different
places in Jerusalem and otherplaces in the Judean desert.
But I was seeking and searchingand I found myself over time

(18:11):
dropping into bouts ofdepression and trying to figure
out how to get out of them,having suicidal thoughts,
thoughts of self-mutilizationmeaning cutting myself, burning
myself and these thoughts wouldcome into my head suicide, drive
off the road, jump off thecliff.
All these things started comingin my head suicide, drive off
the road, jump off the cliff.
All these things started comingin and I thought I must be doing
something wrong with mypractice, because I should be

(18:32):
feeling peaceful by now.
I should be feeling peaceful,calm, I should be the one that's
rich and successful.
You know, my gigs weren't, youknow, working out.
I was going into debt.
And then I met my, my, thewoman that would become my wife,
and thank God for her becauseshe slowed me down.
You know she wasn't having anyof this meditation stuff and

(18:52):
this new age nonsense that thatshe called it, you know.
But I said, you know, you don'tknow what you're missing.
You, you really got to meditatewith me and I had my kids doing
these poses too, and I justthank God that he guarded them
during that time, your children.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Oh yeah, I had them meditating.
You actually married.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
You got married, yeah , and had two children and she
slowed you down yeah, so we're.
So I'm in Israel, I met my wifein Israel and that slowed me
down because they weren't reallyhaving it Right.
But I still was stuck in this,this really cycle of of you know
, I'd move them around fromplace to place and I would go
into depression and come out, gointo depression and come out,

(19:29):
have suicidal thoughts and I'mthinking when's life gonna
suddenly magically become great?
Did you tell your wife, no, butshe knew, and I was too
prideful to tell her that I wasfailing and I wasn't achieving
the goals through this new agepractice that I thought that I
would, wasn't achieving thegoals through this new age
practice that I thought that Iwould.
And then really I had movedthem around so many times, you

(19:54):
know, because I needed somethingfresh, because my life wasn't
bringing me joy and purpose, soI needed to move, and so I would
move my family from oneapartment to another, one town
to another.
Every year we'd move, and whenthe excitement fell off, I
realized, oh, I'm in the sameplace again.
Here I am, and one day I justsaid I was telling Joey about
this on the way over here.
I said one day I just said I'm46 years old now, I'm in debt.

(20:18):
It's a year later.
I just moved my family toCalifornia, promising them that
this move would be the thingthat made me happy.
A year later, I find myself inthe depths of despair and I
couldn't look at my wife becauseI did it to her again.
Wow.
And I fell to the ground and Isaid honey, I am so sorry, I am

(20:40):
so sorry and I'm wailing.
Guys, you know when you take achild's favorite thing from and
they're screaming and kicking.
I was on the ground wailing andI said I'm so sorry, I don't
know what I'm doing anymore.
I'm so sorry, I've brought youall into this mess.
I've worked for 20 years to tryto become a better version, to

(21:02):
try to bring our family intosomething beautiful, and I've
failed miserably.
I have nothing to pass on to mykids and I could see my wife
going.
I need to leave this guy.
Wow, there's nothing I can doto help him.
She knew my family wasn'tmaking me happy and this guy
that I'd been following when Iwas younger was still in my head
and he was still controlling me.
And this spirit, that this darkspirits, were controlling me

(21:26):
and I said I have no idea whatI'm doing anymore.
I'm done.
And that was it.
I put up my hands and I saidI'm finished with this world.
And my wife said just pleasedon't do anything to yourself,
promise me.
And I paused for drama's sake,and I I looked at her and I said
I won't, because I won't dothat to you.
And at that moment she realizedthat our family wasn't making

(21:49):
me happy, and so she was justthinking to herself how can I
take the kids and get back toIsrael and leave this guy here
to figure out his own mess?
And I washed my hands of theworld.
The next day, I go into the gym,gym and I'm throwing the
weights around, cussing, angry,negative, cynical, all the
opposite of what new agespirituality told me I had to do

(22:12):
to make my life prosper.
And I see this really tall guyacross the gym and I said you
know, I got to meet this guy, Idon't know why.
And I turn around, pick up someweights.
And I said you know, I got tomeet this guy, I don't know why.
And I turn around, pick up someweights and I get tapped on the
shoulder.
Hey, and it's that guy.
He said I just want to ask youone question what do you eat?
And I said he's like, wellcause, we're about the same age,

(22:35):
you look, you look good and fitand I just want some, you know
some advice.
I said you don't want to knowwhat I eat.
He said what burgers and pizzaand whatever you want, looking
like that.
And I said no, I eat aplant-based diet and that was my
diet at the time.
He said you're right, I didn'twant to know.
But that led into aconversation about health and
fitness, right, and we get intothis conversation and I ask him
what do you do, by the way?
And he says I'm a pastor, andsomething hit me and I really.

(23:00):
So tell me, what is a church?
What do you mean?
What does a pastor do?
Why do we need commute?
All of a sudden, thesequestions start coming out.
Can someone have a spirituallife separate from the church
and separate from you know?
And he would give me veryconcise biblical answers.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
Had you had any exposure to christianity at none
before that?
None, zero.
This was.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
And to be fair.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
Just a none, A none.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, exactly To be fair, guys, I hadn't read the
Old Testament, which is verycommon in Jewish life.
We don't know our ownscriptures.
So I had no context of anything.
I had Jewish lifestyle, but Ihad no context.
And so I'm a pastor and I juststarted asking questions.
He gave these really amazingbiblical questions.
He gave these really amazingbiblical, concise answers and
I'd go over, be lifting and I'dbe thinking and thinking,

(23:44):
contemplating.
In his mind he's like I've losthim.
I've mentioned Jesus, he's goneright, but I kept coming back
to him and then, all of a sudden, I see another guy at the other
side of the gym and this guywas around 62 years old, but the
fittest guy in the entire gymOne of us Exactly and he's doing
like the pull-ups, upside down,taking 45 pounds over his head,
kicking through the gym, andhe's the guy that

(24:06):
people walked around because hewas weird.
But I was looking at this guygoing, he's got something that I
don't have and what was that?
Life?
He had life, and he would shakepeople's hands and he would hug
people and he would be liftingweights.
And I walked right up to himand I put my hand out and I said
I just wanted to meet youbecause you have something that
I.
And he cut me off right.
He puts his hand on my shoulderand he goes wow.

(24:27):
And I said what he says can yougive me some of that?
And I said no, you need to giveme some of what you have
because I want it to die.
And he put his hand on my othershoulder and he said can I pray
for you?
And I said can I pray for you?
And I said I have nothing tolose In the gym.
In the gym, people are lusting,cussing, gossiping, and this man

(24:49):
is praying for me.
And at the end of the prayer hesays what In Jesus name?
And this Jew in the gym isgoing.
What do I do with that?
Wow, I know I don't knowanything about Jesus, but I all
I heard when I was younger fromrabbis and my parents was that
we're not supposed to believe inhim and don't even say his name
, and I said I don't care, amen,and that was that I walk off

(25:13):
and I'm like that wasinteresting.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
And this is the same day when you met that first guy
and then okay, Same day.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Next day I go into the gym and I see him.
His name is Edgar, the guy whoprayed for me.
I walk right over to Edgar.
I said can you give me somemore of that prayer?
He prays for me and at the endof the prayer he says what In
Jesus' name?
Yeah, and I said amen.
Day after day I go back and I'msaying amen, amen, amen.
And lo and behold, I start tofeel like I'm coming back to
life.
You started saying I'm in, I'min.

(25:41):
Well, that's right.
But I had a lot to kind ofovercome.
I had an ego pride, I hadspiritual torment that I was
dealing with and carrying withme suicidal thoughts.
I was still tormentedspiritually and so, all of a
sudden, jesus starts to appearin everything.
I go to meet someone else andthere's Jesus.
Someone hands me a book.
I go to visit my father, whowas at the time atheist, and he

(26:06):
hands me a book about Jesus.
He's like I don't know.
I have this book.
My Christian friend gave it tome.
I thought you might like it.
I'm like and I looked at it andI said the imminent return of
Jesus.
I said, dad, in my mind, if youonly knew what I was going
through right now.
I went, devoured the book, gohome and, um, chris Cross, chris
Cross, the guy at the gym, theguy, not the singer uh, the the,

(26:29):
the guy at the gym, the tallguy that came up to me.
He comes up to me in the gymand he's like hey, we're having
a men's weekend, why don't youcome and join us at church?
I'm like, all right, soundskind of weird Men's weekend,
whatever that means.
So I go to church and I'msitting there and they have a
guest pastor that night.
He was a comedian, so he wasreally funny and he kind of is
drawing me in and he's teachingon the transfiguration of Jesus,

(26:49):
right, and I'm sitting therelistening and I'm like, okay, I
don't know anything about Jesus.
And then he gets to the partwhere he's talking about how
Jesus is speaking with Elijahand Moses and I'm like're not,
you know, alive anymore thistime.

(27:10):
And you know the story goeswhere the disciples you know,
peter wants to make a tabernaclefor each of the Moses, elijah
and Jesus.
A cloud comes over the mountain, elijah and Moses Moses
representing the law, elijahrepresenting the prophets.
They're both gone.
Jesus is standing there,radiant in all his glory.
The voice comes out of thecloud and says this is my

(27:30):
beloved son.
Listen to him.
Bam.
That was it that moment.
Listen to him.
Wow.
And my jaw dropped.
And all of a sudden, my lifeflashed before my eyes, my
memory of all the gurus and allthe spiritual teachers that I'd
been listening to.
The cassette tapes of TonyRobbins, all these different

(27:51):
spiritual teachers and gurus inmy ear, walking around town,
chanting mantras.
Listen to him.
And that was it.
I ran home and I told my wife.
I said honey, it's Jesus.
I know it's Jesus.
It's him that we have to belistening to.
This is the one that we've beenlooking for, just like the
disciples said when they foundJesus.
This is the one that Mosesspoke about, this is the one

(28:14):
we've been looking for.
And I said but, honey, I've gota problem, I'm tormented and I
don't know what to do.
I know he's the one we need tolisten to, but what are we
supposed to do?
We don't have any context.
Are we supposed to get on ourknees and say a prayer?
And if we say it, what if itdoesn't work?

Speaker 3 (28:32):
Your wife was Jewish as well, and was she like whoa
psychopath?

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah.
So this is another amazing partof the story.
She was having experiencesrelated to Jesus at the same
time, separately, so we wouldcome home and speak about them.
And my older son was havingexperiences related to Jesus as
well, separately.
How old was he at the time?
Nine.
It wasn't me saying, hey guys,there's this cool new thing and
his name's Jesus and let's do ittogether.

(28:57):
It looks like fun.
There's some really nice peopledown the street giving me
donuts and coffee and they'retelling me to come in and giving
me hugs.
This sounds great, let's do it.
It wasn't anything like that.
She'd tell me something thatshe had about a woman that she
met who invited her to coffeeand told her about how her son
was healed from terminalleukemia through prayer.
And when my wife asked who areyou praying to, she said Jesus,

(29:20):
of course.
And my wife says who's thisJesus?
So she goes home and she startsGoogling miracles and Jesus.
And I'm off with my guys at thegym and all of a sudden Jesus
is working on my family.
But I come home that night it'saround 11 PM and I said, honey,
jesus is the one.
I don't know what to do.
What are we supposed to do whatif it doesn't work?

(29:43):
That was my mindset.
I was works based.
I will achieve my ownrighteousness, and through my
own words, my life is gonna begreat.
And I thought gosh, what if itdoesn't work?
And she said you know, you justtold me you were tormented.
I had a dream last night and Ididn't feel compelled to tell
you because I thought it wasjust a weird dream.

(30:04):
But here you are telling meabout this story and I feel that
I need to tell you.
You should see my wife.
She's petite, very soft spokenIsraeli, and she said I'm
running through this schoolyardwith a group of kids and they're
running away from something,and this one kid goes off to the
right into a classroom byhimself.
So right into a classroom byhimself.
So I wanted to see where thiskid went.
I look inside the room and Isee a child there, trembling in

(30:26):
fear, with a demon standing him,tormenting him.
And I woke up and she goes"'That boy was you.
"'that boy was you, and thatman that you were following
"'when you were younger was notwho he said he was.
"'he was possessed andtormented and he had you.
And I knew without a doubt thatwhat she just said was true.

(30:50):
I knew it.
I couldn't get this guy out ofmy head for 20 years.
But when that pastor said listento him and my wife revealed to
me that piece of information, itall fell off.
I was depressed, I was anxious,suicidal.
It all fell off.
It was almost like it wasphysical.

(31:11):
It fell off me and it hit theground and my hands flew up in
the sky and I said I'm free.
I'm free.
That's exactly what I saidtwice.
And she looked at me and I saidhoney, we're going to our knees
right now.
We're giving our lives to Jesus.
And we did that.
We fell to our knees, gave ourlives to Jesus, and that was it.

(31:32):
The next morning I woke up abrand new human being.
The old was gone, the new hadcome and I couldn't cuss anymore
.
My filthy mouth, my filthy mind, that was busy at the gym, it
was clean, it was wiped clean.
And all of a sudden I pick upthe Bible and I just start

(31:53):
devouring it.
I couldn't get enough of thisthing that I hated.
I disdained the Bible when Iwas younger and that was it.
And my wife looks at me and shesays I have no idea what
happened to you, but I pray thatit stays this way.
Seven years later, here we are,and she is a stronger believer

(32:13):
today because of what she sawGod do to me.
Praise God.
And I said God, you put me towork for you.
Put me to work for you.
I've got nothing left.
I'm 46 years old.
Let's go Yalla yalla, that'show we say in Hebrew.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Let's go, yalla.
That's not even Hebrew man.
You know what I'm talking about, yalla.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Let's go, let's get busy.
God put me to work.
I'm tired of being this failure.
Let's go Now.
It took another three yearsbefore I started making the
evangelism channel channel, butI called up Jews for Jesus and I
was like I hated you guysgrowing up, but I feel compelled
to call you right now and askif you have a place for me on

(32:48):
staff, because I need to besharing Jesus with the world.
And that was it.
That's all I wanted to do.
Wow, man, Jeff, that'sbeautiful.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
I teared up because when you're talking about the
immediate transformation thatwas me, all of us are different
here at the table.
Some it took a little longer,but that was my experience.
It was like Christ became myall.
I remember jumping into myfriend's car and we're heading
home after I got saved like 20minutes later and he turned on

(33:16):
the same wicked, filthy radiostation we used to listen to.
I go hey bro, what are youdoing?
I go we're Christians, we don'tlisten to that stuff anymore.
He's like whoa.
It's like this guy gotover-saved.
Chill, homie Chill homie, sothat's awesome.
So I want to pick up on yourstory.
But, ray, first of all, what'syour connection with Jeff?
How did that all happen?

Speaker 4 (33:33):
I don't know who he is.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Who is this guy?

Speaker 4 (33:37):
How do we hook up?

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Well, actually, interestingly enough, when I got
saved, I had a vegan YouTubechannel.
Right, I was, you know, healthand fitness.
You know, publishingplant-based lifestyle instead of
publishing peace, like Isaiah52 says.
I was publishing like a betterway to live.
And I was still doing mychannel.
I'm like, how can I make thissomething that glorifies God?
But see, I was so invested inself-glorification I had my

(34:02):
shirt off on the thumbnails anddoing all this stuff and I
thought this has to come down.
But before I did that, Iinterviewed Ray.
I reached out and I interviewedyou from my vegan YouTube
channel.
You may not remember it, but wetalked about bringing the gospel
to people and how we can usehealth and fitness maybe as a
catalyst to bring people to theLord.
How long ago was that?

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Oh gosh, this was six years ago, I think, did Ray
help you to ask meat into yourheart.
Meat, yeah he tried.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
I remember you talking about eggs.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Eggs, eggs, but I'm not, I mean I don't do
plant-based diet anymore.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
I don't talk about it anymore.
I don't promote this or thatanymore.
You know, I just like to talkabout Jesus.
If you want to be healthy, I'msure you can find a way.
And so, as I'm going and I'mdoing evangelism, I learned a
lot watching you in terms of howto talk to people, how to ask
questions, and I'd watch a lotof evangelism because I knew God
put a calling on my heart toevangelize.
I knew that was something thatI had to do, but it was funny

(34:58):
because before we leftCalifornia to come back to
Israel, I said God, I'm going togo back to Israel, just don't
make me that guy that goes onthe streets and tells people
about Jesus.
I'll go, just don't do that tome.
And I said, okay, I'm sorry,all right, I'll do whatever you
want.
You died for me, I'll live foryou.
So I'm in Israel.
Start the channel.
Things start rolling and I andyou know I serve with Jews for

(35:26):
Jesus.
I want to connect with you andI want to talk about the
Jewishness of our heritage andhow we're still Jewish, but we,
our Jewishness is fulfilled inthe Messiah, you know, in Jesus,
and I want to.
I just want my my.
One of my main goals is toreally make Jewish faith in
Jesus known.
One of my main goals is toreally make Jewish faith in

(35:47):
Jesus known, and so I reachedout to Ray, I reached out to Jen
and you guys got back to me andwere very gracious and I was on
a trip to California and wemade it happen.
We met at Huntington Beach andwe filmed your testimony, ray,
which is doing very well on ourchannel.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
It was a blessing filmed your testimony, ray,
which is doing very well on ourchannel.
It was a blessing.
Thank you for that.
And then, ray, you came up withan idea to have Jeff preach the
gospel in Israel while you'redoing the same here, asking the
same questions.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
Yeah and going back and forth and it was great it's
on our YouTube channel at themoment and it's unique to see
someone being witnessed inCalifornia and then switched to
Israel and just sharing thegospel with them.

Speaker 5 (36:23):
I think it's really neat you mentioned earlier it
sounds like your wife and Rayhave a lot in common.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
I knew that was coming up.

Speaker 5 (36:30):
She said she was a small petite Jew.
What is it?
Can you just, for people who'veone never been to Israel, two
have never watched your channel,tell us a little bit about the
atmosphere, what it's like topreach the gospel to a Jewish
person in Israel, what?

Speaker 1 (36:46):
are your challenges.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
Is it legal?
How do you overcome thosechallenges?

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah, well, first of all, it is legal.
Israel is a wonderful countrywith freedom of religious
expression, freedom to evenchange a religion.
Well, we don't hear things likethat.
That's right, because,unfortunately, you asked what is
it like to share the Gospel inIsrael?
It's different, based on yourapproach.
So there are people that comeas street preachers and they

(37:12):
come there completelyunsensitive to Israeli culture,
jewish mindset, and they go andthey get on the microphone and
you're Jewish and it's 353, thisis for you, whatever you want,
and they do this thing and it'sso offensive Because someone's
coming to your country andpointing at you in the face and
saying what you're doing iswrong.
And I have the answer come tome and Jewish people spit on
that and I understand why.

(37:34):
The persecution of Jewishpeople throughout history in the
name of Jesus has been horrific, horrific, and I'm a part of
that.
My ancestry is a part of that.
We have Holocaust in my wife'sfamily, holocaust survivors and
everything not that, that was aChristian event, yeah, but you
know that my mom had rocksthrown at her head, you know,
when she was younger, byproclaiming Christians, you know

(37:57):
Catholics and my father alsocalled dirty Jew and was, you
know, attacked, and you know,and I had I was called dirty Jew
and was you know, attacked, andyou know, and I had I was
called dirty Jew in school andyou know these things.
We have these things in ourhistory.
It's almost genetic, you know.
It goes down from generation togeneration and we feel these
things.
And so if you come to Israelwith an insensitivity to what
the Jewish people have gonethrough throughout their history
, you're going to have a reallyhard time.

(38:18):
You're going to be argued with,yelled at, kicked at you know,
pushed spit on and you know what.
In a way, so be it, becauseYou're coming into a country to
a people you don't understandand just talking at them, and I
don't necessarily like thatapproach.
Now, as a Jew, I go to myfellow Jews and I honestly care

(38:42):
about people.
I love people, I love talkingto people, I love meeting people
and I love hearing storiesabout people's lives.
So when I go up to somebody onthe street and I come up to them
and say, hey, we have a YouTubechannel, I'm a Jewish, believer
in Jesus.
And they go.
You know, it's like a doubletake.
What Is that a thing?
A Christian Jew?
Isn't that an oxymoron?

Speaker 4 (39:01):
So there's no hesitation on your part to
mention the name Jesus.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
No, Like I said, Ray, I had enough.
Enough fooling around with mylife.
Let's get busy.

Speaker 4 (39:10):
I found that too.
I'm witnessing to a Jew and I'mcoming to this mountain where
I've got to mention Jesus andI'm nervous, but when I do, it's
a molehill.
They just say yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah, wow.
You know they just say yeah,okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
wow.
And thank goodness for theinternet and thank goodness for
guys like you, so where jewishpeople can go and actually see.
Wait a second, this makes sense.
He's talking about the 10commandments that came to moses
on mount sinai.
I can relate to that.
You know, I know friends thathave, you know I.
There's a jewish guy that cameto faith in jesus through
watching your channel and hesent I sent you that Little

(39:45):
video clip, that video clip ofhim thanking you and his story.
He shared a six minutetestimony and sent it over to
Ray.
How grateful he was.

Speaker 4 (39:51):
That's the one I tried to send to you, but you
couldn't download it.
Oh yeah, yeah so beautiful.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
I love that.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
So my experience EZ is like it's nerve-wracking,
it's challenging, especiallywhen we go to Jerusalem, but
because we care genuinely aboutpeople and they can see that
their skin might crawl when theyhear the name of Jesus but at
the same time they're open toconversation, right yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
Well, I want you to, in a minute, give us some
practical insight, becauseobviously some of our friends
listening today maybe are livingin Israel or are living in
communities where there are alot of Jewish people and they
want to reach them.
And I love what you said, jeff.
You love your people.
That's where all of us shouldbe.
I mean, that's what compelledPaul, who said you know, I would

(40:41):
wish myself accursed for thesake of my people, and that
cannot be something that isfaked.
When it's authentic, peoplesense it and they're more prone
to listen to you.
Mark, you obviously have aJewish family that you're
related to now through your wife, jewish family that you're

(41:06):
related to now through your wifeLaura, and you shared the
gospel with her.
What was that like, and havethere been challenges with the
Jewish family?

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yes, I mean her father will not talk to me about
anything Jewish-related, right?
Because I took it up as achallenge, right?
This is going to be myfather-in-law, right?
I want to be able to haveconversations with him, and now
he's just kind of done talkingto me and that.
So we have a very cordialrelationship, but he doesn't

(41:34):
want to go deep, he doesn't wantto open up scriptures.
I can use any sort of Judaicword imaginable to try to relate
and connect, and it's just notgoing to happen.
I remember, and I'll share withJeff, that when I asked for the
blessing of my wife's fatherfor you know, I want to marry

(41:54):
your daughter, I'd like yourblessing, I'd like you to know
about this and he said you know,I've always desired my daughter
to marry a nice Jewish man.
And then he was just silent.
There was like nothing.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
So you should run for three You're a man, stick a
yarmulke around, however heresponded with.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
But I've seen the change inside of her since she's
been hanging out with youBecause I used to share the
gospel with her before shebecame a Christian.
We worked at a restauranttogether and I would share all
the time with her, and then Iwent away to Bible college and
my girlfriend at the time we allworked together at the same
restaurant continued to sharewith my wife, and then, when I

(42:38):
went away to Bible college, mygirlfriend at the time continued
to share and then my wife nowbecame a Christian my soon-to-be
wife.
You know, and it's been weird.
You know, we know her sisterused to work here and went to
Moody Bible College and thenworked with Chosen People of
Ministry and then, you know,renounced Christ, you know, and

(42:59):
doesn't want to have anything todo, doesn't want to have a
conversation at all, and now, tothis day, lives in Jerusalem
and is raising her child as ifJesus is a cuss word.
Right, right, I mean, how dareyou mention that name?

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
So, yeah, it's had its challenges, and family
gatherings have not been theeasiest.
My wife she went to Ancestrycomand had her test done and it
says here that she is anAshkenazi Jew 98%, which is
pretty high on that list.
But it is what it is.

(43:35):
We've been to Israel what two,three times now and obviously we
have a heart for Jewish peopleand I would love to learn and
grow continually.
So I'm excited for this lastportion of this podcast, to know
what's the secret sauce.
What is it that you're dealing?

Speaker 3 (43:52):
with.
Yeah, jeff, we'd really love tohear from you on that because,
honestly, look, we've been toIsrael.
Ray and I were two of thoseguys that got spat on at least
Ray did.
We preached the gospel on BenYehuda Street in the open air.
We didn't know any better.
But we do want to grow, evenourselves, in sensitivity.
We want to be wise because, atthe end of the day, we want to

(44:13):
maximize our effectiveness.
We know the gospel isunchanging.
We know the use of the law ispertinent because Scripture
tells us that, but we do need tobe wise in how we apply it in
certain contexts so that we canmaximize our effectiveness and
impact.
Obviously, we do know as wellthat there is sometimes
persecution that comes with that.
You could do all you can to bekind and gentle and impactful.

(44:34):
Oh, I still get it, we get it,and I'm sure you do too.
So take us down that road.
What do you do?
How do you find is most?
What do you find is mosteffective in trying to reach
Jewish people?

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Well, what came to mind when Mark was telling his
story was that he said that youknow, my wife, who is 98%
Ashkenazi Jew, became aChristian, and in the mind of a
Jewish person, that meansthey've left us and gone to them
, and that is really what'sstopping a lot of Jewish people
from investigating Jesus,because they feel like and what
my wife said too she says butJeff, I know this is all, this
is happening, and Jesus andeverything, but I don't want to

(45:05):
be a Christian, I want to beJewish.
But she started watchingtestimonies of Jewish believers
in Jesus, which helped herunderstand that not only are you
not leaving your Jewishidentity, you're actually
becoming more Jewish, right, andhow is that possible?
Because we're going into theirreligion, right?
No, it's not that way.
You know, the natural olivebranches have been broken off,

(45:29):
still have to be regrafted in,and the unnatural, the wild
olive branches meaning theGentiles or the nations are
grafted in, are adopted in.
So when I was at the gym one dayand this gentleman that was
praying for me says I just wantto thank you and the Jewish
people for allowing me to be apart of your heritage and your

(45:52):
culture and that I can believein the God of Abraham, isaac and
Jacob because of the JewishMessiah, jesus.
And I went what I've never.
You're coming in.
You mean, I'm not coming out toa new religion.
And he said, no, I'm coming in,thank you.
Thank you for your Messiah.
And it just switched somethingin me.

(46:12):
And so what I like to do is,when I talk to Jewish people,
you know, the contextualizationof the Jewish mindset is
important, but I came to faiththrough Gentile believers.
You know non-Jewish men in thegym that had no Jewish context
whatsoever.
They just told me what I neededto hear and God moved.
And so my first advice is totalk about Jesus, even if you're

(46:35):
scared, even if you'reapprehensive.
But, that being said, there isa contextualization.
That's important.
Terms like Christianity, thechurch, jesus Christ, virgin
Mary you know all these kinds ofterminology are very foreign to
Jewish people.
It doesn't sit well with thembecause what they think of is

(46:56):
Roman Catholicism and medievalpersecution when they hear those
terms parading with crosses andkilling Jews and forced
conversions and so that's whatthey think when they hear these
words, that you know, theCatholic church and all these
things and so what's importantis to allow people to understand
that this is a Jewish context.
It's Passover's coming up in acouple of days and what we like

(47:20):
to teach the Jewish people aboutis the Jewishness of Jesus, the
Jewishness of the New Testament, that it's a beautiful piece of
Jewish literature.
You know, jews for Jesus is afantastic ministry that is
dedicated to sharing the gospelJewish people sharing the gospel
with our own people, reallypursuing God's plan for

(47:43):
salvation for the Jewish peoplerelentlessly.
And Jewish people have amazinglike.
It's just an amazing, wonderfulevangelical and creative
ministry to help reach theJewish people.
And as Jews we kind of havelike an in right.
But I think Yeshua over Jesus isimportant meaning.

(48:05):
Well, I know that name, it'sHebrew.
You know Yohanan the immerseris John the Baptist and Miriam
is Jesus' mother's name,yeshua's mother's name, you know
, born in Bethlehem, raised inNazareth.
These are all things that aJewish person can relate to.
First, you go for the heart.
I love you as a brother orsister in humanity.
But second of all, I care andyou guys are really good at this

(48:28):
I really care about your future.
And did you know that the firstsentence of the New Testament
is this is the genealogy ofYeshua, the Messiah, son of
David, son of Abraham and aJewish person goes that's the
New Testament.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
That sounds just like the Tanakh Is that pretty
common?
That response, that shock.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Absolutely Like.
What is that?
Because I thought the NewTestament was a recipe for how
to persecute Jews and, you know,take over Israel.
That's what they think, andsome of our biggest arguments
come against the New Testamentfrom people that have never
opened it, and so I like toquote things like Old Testament
prophecy which, like Mark said,it doesn't help everyone.

(49:13):
Sometimes the testimony ishelpful, sometimes the
prophecies are helpful, and whatwe do is we love the person.
You know, when the rich youngruler came to Jesus, you know,
before he starts to do thecommandments, what does it say
he did?
First he loved him and then heshared with him where he's about
to be going.
You know, if he doesn't leaveit and follow him, follow Jesus.

(49:33):
And so I think there's acertain contextual sensitivity
that has to happen when reachingJewish people and, like you go
to the same places a lot toshare the gospel.
People recognize you, they getto know you, you spend time with
them in their local community,and so we like to go to the same
places and talk to people, sopeople recognize us and we're

(49:53):
not just dipping in and dippingout, right, you know, coming in
with the message.
You guys did what you said,this is how you do it in Isaiah
53.
And these biblical propheciesare helpful.
And I like to also get intorabbinic interpretation of these
prophecies as well, because theJews, they, follow the rabbis
for the most part.
If you're going to be religious, you got to follow the rabbis
and you got to follow thebiblical interpretations that

(50:16):
the rabbis give you, the sagesgive you, because they're the
wise ones right Chosen by God.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
The video we did together, I noticed that one of
the Jewish young men that youwere speaking to said that Jews
go to hell for 11 months, right?
Is that common?

Speaker 1 (50:31):
That shocked me there are many things like that as
well.
There's also reincarnation youkeep coming back and it's very
Eastern.
There's a lot of Easternphilosophy that comes into
religious Judaism.
They won't admit that, butthere is, and it's common to
hear things like that that youknow every Jew is going gonna be
in heaven someday, but they'regonna have to pay for their sins

(50:52):
and they get cleansed and thenthey go and they be with God in
the world to come.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
So, jeff, when you share with Jewish folks in
Israel on the streets, do youever kind of read Isaiah 53 or
portions of it and then ask them, who does this sound like?
Before telling them this isIsaiah 53?

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah, we have a great video on our channel, so Be it,
where we actually took Isaiah53, isaiah 9, 6, the son will be
born called mighty God, andalso Zechariah 12, 10, they
shall look upon me, god speaking, whom they've pierced.
And we take those out and wehave them, read them in Hebrew
and in English out loud, and weask them who does this sound

(51:33):
like?
Where is this from?
And they say, well, it's fromthe New Testament.
And we say, why is that?
Because it sounds like Jesus.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Oh man, it gives me the chills.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Yes, and the thing is is that a lot of the rabbis
that we talk with because we dotalk to Orthodox Jews they'll
say an Orthodox Jew would neversee that as Jesus.
And I understand why Becausemany of them don't study Tanakh,
which is an acronym for the OldTestament, the Torah, the

(52:05):
prophets and the writings.
They don't study it.
They study the rabbinicinterpretations, the Talmud, and
so they don't have the contextof the Old Testament to go from.
And so the Jews that we speakwith that are secular will say
Jesus, and we're like no, that'sactually the Old Testament.
They're like no way.
What that's in our scriptures.
Yeah, you should check them outand also check out this other

(52:28):
beautiful piece of Jewishliterature called the New
Testament that God prophesied inJeremiah 31, 31.
For I will make a new covenantwith the house of Israel and the
house of Judah, not like thecovenant that I made with their
fathers when I took them by thehand out of Egypt, the covenant
that they broke although I was ahusband to them.
And this is the covenant whereI will put my law on their
hearts, on their inward parts,and I'll be their God and they

(52:50):
will be my people.
And this is the covenant whereI will take away their sins.
And this is the promise of thenew covenant in Jeremiah 31.
And Jewish people are looking atthat and they're going online.
They're seeing your channelLiving Waters, they're seeing so
Be it, and they're going to theJews for Jesus website and
they're seeing all these thingsgoing.
I never knew that.

(53:11):
Thank God for the internet.
Like you said when I met withyou last, you said Paul would be
jealous of our ability to reachso many people.
With the touch of a button,publish.
And there it goes.
Thousands of people are seeingthings and hearing things they'd
never heard before.
Wow, that is just amazing.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
And yeah, I mean Oscar, that same gospel.
Yeah, I mean Oscar, that samegospel.
It transcends every element ofsociety, every culture, every
boundary.
The message is still the same.

Speaker 5 (53:37):
Yeah, no matter where you are in space, time or
history, the gospel reigns, true.
It's important I love yourperspective.
It's important to understandthe contextualization of culture
that helps you understand howto proclaim the never-changing
gospel.
Shame on us if we ever try tochange the gospel, but we should

(53:58):
always pay attention to thekind of questions that culture
is asking so that we can presentthe gospel in a faithful way.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
That's what you're doing.
Yeah, praise God.
And also I just want to saythat Jews for Jesus.
It's really important becausewe understand that the Jewish
people are still considered anunreached people group.
So, when you guys hear of thewords unreached people group.
What do you think of anunreached people?

Speaker 3 (54:20):
group.
Yeah, you think the 1040 windowand you think tribes and you
think Exactly yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Exactly.
You'd never think the Jewishpeople, yeah, you'd never think
the Jewish people Unreached.
They're not being spoken to,and we're a people that in
Isaiah 52, blessed are the feetof those on the mountain who
share published peace, proclaimsalvation, good tidings, who say
Zion, your God reigns.
We're supposed to be a peoplethat are sharing salvation with

(54:46):
the world and so, as we see theJewish people as an unreached
people group, we just encourage.
You know it may be intimidating, but speak about Him.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
Yeah, there's another unreached people's group the
very primitive tribes that jumpup and down and have bones
through their nose.
They're in Californiauniversities.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
That's right.
Ray goes to share the gospelwith all creatures.
Yeah, jeff.
My question to you in light ofall of that, though, is, like we
said, the gospel is offensive,and no matter how much we try,
that's going to happen.
Have you faced some persecutionand pushback?
Yes, yeah, yeah, we have.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Praise the Lord.
Yeah, I've been spit at my feet.
People have walked by mepraying we have.
Praise the Lord.
Yeah, right, I've been spit atmy feet.
People have walked by mepraying that we die.
Wow, I've had things thrown atme.
They didn't hit me, but it'srare.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
And what I don't want to do is I don't want to paint
a picture of the Jewish peoplebeing this wicked group of
people that are so anti-Jesus,the Jewish people being this
wicked group of people that areso anti-Jesus and, honestly, in
today's day and age, the Jewishpeople have become much more
accepting and open toconversation about him.
That's awesome, which has beenwonderful, and we've had
wonderful conversations.
And I take it, it's like beforeI go out on the streets, I pray

(56:06):
and I say, god, I need you.
I need you so much because Ican't do this on my own.
I need you to show up for me.
And there are times where Ifeel like I'm down and out and
the conversations aren't goingwell.
I just take a step back and I'mlike God, I need you, and then
boom, he brings me someone.
Someone comes and comes rightup to us.
What are you guys talking about?
I've always wanted to be onYouTube.
We're talking about Jesus Okay,let's go.

(56:27):
And we have this great, amazingconversation.
We exchange details and wecontinue to be in contact and
we've seen many, many Jewishpeople come to faith in Jesus.
Many, even from the Orthodoxcommunity, praise the.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Lord, that's such a joy to hear and yeah, look, it's
universal in terms of we facethe same thing here.
We get people to get angry atus and attack us.
You know, ray's been attackedby many women.
He doesn't have the fear of man, it's the fear of a woman,
right, ray?

Speaker 2 (56:56):
yeah, yeah, right, yep.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
Yep, I confess it.
Yeah, but Mike Tyson's sistercame at me, tried to punch me.

Speaker 4 (57:02):
Yeah, well, kirk Cameron and I.
He gets chased by women and Igot chased by a woman.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Different raisins.
Yes, yeah, that lady left youbruised up, ray.

Speaker 4 (57:11):
For two weeks.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
yes, he usually just hides under his dog.
We were thinking about thatwhen we were coming to visit Ray
on the pier.
We were like we should rent twobikes, get two stuffed animals,
put them on the front and goriding downtown with Ray.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
That would be great.
But, mark, isn't it sweet tohear these testimonies?

Speaker 2 (57:29):
We've had quite a few guests on our podcast and I'm
absolutely captivated, and Ihaven't been more than any of
the guests that I think thatwe've had on our show.
I feel like I can listen to youfor hours.
Wow, I feel like we're likelong-lost brothers and I have a
million questions for you.
Yes, and I want to watch everysingle video on your YouTube

(57:54):
channel and I want to memorizethe different things that you do
and the routine that you godown.
And I have this.
I feel like I've been given justa shot of adrenaline for the
Jewish people even more so.
Right, because it seems to myshame that there is some sort of
a wall with my extended family,right, and I'm just like, well,

(58:14):
lord, you're sovereign, you gotto do what you got to do.
But it's like, no, it's likeMark, what are you going to do?
Give up.
God hasn't given up.
He hasn't given up on theJewish people.
What are you thinking?
Where are you at?
And I'm like, well, it's justso much easier to talk to a
Gentile or somebody else who Ican find some sort of common
ground philosophically orsomething else.
You know, and I'm just like man, I'm so excited for the work
that God is doing through you,and I'm so excited to dive down

(58:38):
deep and you're not gonna beable to get me now out of your
life, right, because there's.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
God, there's connection.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
I'm happy and I'm going to sit down with my kids
you know they're all a lot older, but they're always looking for
really great stuff and Iremember my son, ethan, who's
now 22 years old and showing methe video.
Is where I first got introducedto your ministry, with my son
Showing me the videos, and I'mlike going back and going no,

(59:05):
you're not going to believe whowe had in the center of our
studio.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
That's so cool.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Super excited.
That's so encouraging.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
Yeah, jeff.
We're encouraged, brother, byyour faithfulness to the Lord
and your devotion and dedicationand your perseverance in the
midst of it, because, aside fromrejection from people, there's
a spiritual warfare that'sinvolved with that.
Satan doesn't want us gettingthe gospel out, especially to
his people in that precious partof the world, and so we're

(59:33):
grateful for you.
Tell people how they canconnect with you, give them all
the information your YouTubechannel websites whatever.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Yeah, well, our dominant channel is YouTube, so
be it on YouTube.
Jews for Jesus has an amazingwebsite full of wonderful
articles and a lot ofinformation how people anyone
can go to the Jews for Jesuswebsite and learn about Jewish
history, jewish culture andcustoms and how Jesus fits into
all of it.
You know how Jesus fulfills thefeasts, how he does it, and

(01:00:02):
you're not writing Jesus intothe scripture.
He fulfills it and it's prettyclear.
So Jewsforjesusorg so be it onYouTube, which is a wonderful
project of Jews for Jesus.
It was just kind of abrainchild that you know.
One day I said God, what do youwant me to do for you?
And he's like, just go on thestreets and talk about me.
I'm like, all right, I'm going,and you know I work hard.
And he blessed it, and so youknow we're opening up so Be.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
It is the interpretation.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
You know, I said what kind of what are we going to
call the channel?
Right?
It's a way of saying may it beso.
Amen, truth, right, which is?
You know, you have Aramaic andHebrew, amen and Emet Emet being
Hebrew, amen being Aramaic andthey both mean truth, and so
that's how we got it.
They came up with the name forthe YouTube, and we have

(01:00:47):
Instagram and TikTok channels.
You're a non-profit, non-profit.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
So people can support you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Absolutely, so you can come to Jews for Jesus,
non-profit, and if you want tobe a part of Jewish evangelism
worldwide.
We have amazing teams all overthe world, even in Ukraine, even
being under bombs, under fire,and people that are sharing the
gospel, helping with refugees,helping with taking prostitutes

(01:01:15):
off the streets, drug addictsand putting them up in homes and
giving them food and shelter inthe gospel and fantastic,
fantastic ministry.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
Love it.
Yeah, awesome, jeff.
Well, thanks for coming in,brother.
We hope to have you on againand hey, lord willing, maybe
we'll team up with you in Israelone day.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
We're there, you guys are always welcome.
Please come Awesome.
Thank you brother.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
All right friends.
There you have it.
Don't forget the TrackedStarter Kit, the Living Waters
mug, the Evidence Study Bibleand Living Waters TV.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
What was that?
You got it right didn't you?

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Yeah, for once, all at livingwaterscom, don't forget
.
Podcast at livingwaterscom,friends, with your thoughts,
ideas and criticisms of Ray,mark and Oscar, and for our
wonderful friends from Finland,this is the Finish.
Thank you for joining us,friends.
We'll see you here next time onthe Living Waters Podcast,

(01:02:05):
where we, except for Jeff, haveno idea what we're doing.