Ep. 352 - The Dangers of Spiritual Lukewarmness

Lukewarmness isn’t neutral—it’s dangerous and spiritually misleading. Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar examine the powerful message to the church in Laodicea and encourage believers to examine their hearts. Has your passion diminished? In Revelation, Christ rebukes a self-reliant church that no longer depends on Him for strength or purpose. The call isn’t about striving more. It’s about surrender, trust, and returning to intimacy with the Lord who pursues us.

The guys explain how Laodicea’s water supply often arrived lukewarm, making it unfit for drinking. That same unpleasant temperature reflected the church’s spiritual condition and lack of power. Lukewarm water, like lukewarm faith, served no purpose. It symbolized a church that had lost its spiritual vitality and didn’t even realize it. They explore how the church is called to be salt and light, a shining source of hope and truth in a dark, dying world. That mission requires zeal, not apathy or self-confidence. Good works don’t save, but they are the fruit of saving grace and evidence of transformed hearts. We are His workmanship, created in Christ for good works that bring Him glory. True zeal isn’t about chaos or hype; it’s steady, humble obedience flowing from a heart filled with gratitude for the gospel and shaped by the Word.

Mark reflects on how God speaks to the heart, not through empty words or outward performance. Lip service doesn’t move Him. It’s in real, desperate prayer and sincere repentance that transformation occurs. Repentance is sweet, hope-filled, and full of promise. It’s not about guilt; it’s about turning fully toward Christ with open hands. Ray shares how, as a new believer, he was consumed with a desire to share the gospel with everyone around him. That same fire is available to all of us who ask.

Zeal is contagious. When believers live fully devoted to Christ, the lives around them are changed. Many hesitate to apply that same passion to their faith. Some believers go all in for hobbies and careers, but when it comes to eternity, they pull back. The Christian life isn’t easy or casual. It demands endurance, discipline, and spiritual awareness. Christians must be grounded in Scripture, guided by truth, and surrounded by people who speak life into their walk. Oscar brings it back to Revelation. Salvation is not earned. It’s a gift of grace through faith alone. When you truly see the beauty of God’s mercy, your affections are reshaped, and zeal becomes the natural response. Christ is worthy of your whole life—every moment, every heartbeat, every ounce of devotion you have to give.

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Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We go through the Word, but the Word needs to go
through us.
We need to pray in the Wordcontinually.
Leonard Ravenhill, therevivalist preacher, who we're
very familiar with.
He said the only reason we donot have revival is because we
are willing to live without it.
Ouch, what will a hungry maneat if he's hungry enough?
Anything In and out, anythingright.

(00:22):
The best seasoning is hunger.
So when you begin to hunger andthirst after the righteousness
of Christ, then what the worldattempts to give you will not
satisfy.
I want to be just done, and thisis where we're at right.
We want to surround ourselveswith people who have a high,
lofty, sovereign view of God,that God can do whatever he

(00:45):
wants, whenever he wants, towhomever he wants, through
anyone, at any moment.
And we're saying well, here amI and I'm done.
Saying, here am I send Him,here am I send me.
Use me for your glory at allcosts, no matter the cost,
because time is quick.
2 Timothy 3,5,.
Having the appearance ofgodliness but denying its power.

(01:08):
Avoid such people.
What does lukewarmness do?
It puts on the jersey, but it'snot ready for the game.
And so many Christians aretreating this like a game, like
it's a playground, but it's abattleground.
So we need to gird up and goLike it's a playground, but it's
a battleground.
So we need to gird up and go.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
As much as I try to avoid thinking of the three of
you, inevitably it happens.
It happened this morning, whenthe three of you popped into my
mind.
Pray for your enemies.
As I was shaving yes, love andpray for your enemies.

(01:50):
With a pair of tweezers.
That's what he shaves, yeah,and I couldn't help but wonder
how much the three of you mustknowing you guys as well as I do
must talk to yourselves.
And the reason why that cameinto my mind is because I was
talking to myself this morningas I was shaving, and you guys
understand my shaving excursions.
It's an event, is it Becauseyou're a heavy?

Speaker 3 (02:10):
bearded, aren't you?
Yeah, you have a big beard.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
No, he gets ingrown hairs.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Mark See Mark's known me what 25 years in ministry
together you get ingrown hairs.
Oh, I have sensitive skin.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
I have to use a pen.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
This is such a personal thing, is it you really
?

Speaker 1 (02:28):
want to talk about.
Yeah, I do very much so.
So I'm I'm shaving and I cutmyself.
No, how do you do?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
that with an electric razor with no blade reminds me
of the guy and I cut myself andI caught myself going.
No, why?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
right, because I allowed yeah out loud.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I thought why in the world do we talk to ourselves
like there must be some sort ofscientific?
We used to have someone thatworked for us.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Years ago, I yelled out when I left my cell phone at
home once I was driving my carand I thought no.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
But what does that?

Speaker 2 (02:54):
do it really helps.
It just releases something.
I felt better.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
I will say there's talking to yourself, and then
there's talking to yourself.
You're probably closer to thetalking to yourself.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
And then there's like talking.
You're probably closer to thetalking, that's why you bring
that up.
No, but seriously like, do youguys ever catch yourself like
talking?

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Isn't that what the subconscious does?
It just yaps to you every allday, 24 hours a day.
No, I'm asleep.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
I think we do it without you know, day, 24 hours
a day, but I think we do itwithout you know.
Oh, why did I do that?
Oh, it was ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
No, we're normal.
When I'm studying at home and Ican't be interrupted, I don't
have an office, I have a kitchentable and I have an office
chair at my kitchen table, which?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
I find quite crazy.
He's got an eating problem.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
But when I'm in deep thought and I don't want to be
interrupted, there's five kidsrunning around.
I talk to myself out loud andthat's how they know not to
interrupt it's kind of like JohnWesley's mom when she was in
prayer she'd throw her apronover her face.
Oh right, and that's how thekids knew not to interrupt.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Don't they steer when you do that, when I throw the
apron over?

Speaker 1 (03:58):
your face.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Now we've been having a problem in my house with
Rachel, especially because nowwith with a voice to text and
talking to Siri and likeseriously, I can't tell you guys
how many times I'm like whatand I start answering her.
It's like nah, I'm talking toSiri over here.
It's like so we're living in ain crazy times.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
I have 10 minutes of our conversation recorded for
history and text where I didn'tpush off the microphone.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Oh, seriously, that's happened to me too.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
What that's personal I know Like what personal yeah,
like what Ray.
Talking about you.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
And what you do at night.
Yeah.
So, guys, honestly, really, howlong does it?
Well, you guys don't shaveanymore.
Well, you trim right, trim allthe time, Otherwise my face
disappears.
See, there's always something,because I thought, oh, I'll grow
a beard, I won't have to shave.
But then you've got to trim.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
I shaved this morning .
This is my shadow.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Oh, I shaved once a year.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
I think I shaved in April, I know Oscar has one hair
.
He's named it.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Larry.
Yeah, larry, I love Terry.
Larry, that's Harry.
I pulled him over to try tomake a mustache Sometimes it
takes me about an hour, hour anda half.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
No, no way.
No, no seriously, but also okay.
I just met somebody recentlythat said they would have to
shave twice when they were inthe military.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
My cousin, because by like noon he would start being
given a good hard time.
But how long was he in themilitary?

Speaker 4 (05:27):
He shaved twice for three years.
Yeah, no, like twice a day.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Oh sorry, twice a day where he'd get to like one
o'clock and they'd walk by andgo.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
Did you shave this morning?
So he was demanded to just goahead and shave twice a day.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
I bet you you would have to shave twice a day so
seriously, you do not spend anhour and a half, no I have?

Speaker 2 (05:38):
yeah, it's because I gotta pull out the hairs oh and
then I go.
It's probably perfectionism.
Do you know?
I haven't done up shoelaces.
This is all you can come upwith.
That's it.
I haven't done up shoelaces foryears.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Do you know that?

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Oh no.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, I once worked out that it's two weeks to spend
tying shoelaces.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
So I thought I don't want to spend my life tying
shoelaces.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
He did the math, so I buy sneakers that are slightly
too big.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
I beat the system.
You need to get Velcro Ray.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
No, no, yeah, I remember Ray's sneakers that are
too big by the way are the babywalker ones With the soft soles
.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
That's right All right friends.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Time for a cool, classy comment.
This comes to us from Joy.
Hello friends, this podcast isthe ultimate cure for insomnia.
I often listen to podcastsduring the day and then listen
to them again as I'm fallingasleep, and I never get past
five minutes.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
So truly, you are correct in advertising the
podcast in that manner.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
I've been listening to this podcast for a while and
have been very uplifted.
It has made me laugh out loudand I've cried through episodes
sometimes.
As a middle school teacher, Imight occasionally share the dad
jokes from this podcast to mystudents, which makes them roll
their eyes and makes me laugh.
The Lord has used theseepisodes to encourage me in the
sharing of the gospel, convictme and to grow more in awe of

(06:59):
our Savior.
I was able to present what thegospel is to students as a part
of the curriculum, but pleasepray for my students and this
generation I am also Gen Z thatwe would see our need for a
Savior and be in awe of Christand desire to live in faith that
is sold out for Him, fittingfor today's topic Sharing the
gospel and living life in lightof eternity.
Pray that, even though there isa curriculum change, that I

(07:22):
would still have opportunitiesto share the gospel with
students without fear.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
How awesome a teacher wanted to share the gospel.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Thank you for all you do.
Grace and peace be with you all.
Your sister in Christ, joy.
Ps.
If you are in Alaska, oscar,oscar should go to Caledon
Brothers Coffee.
Easy needs to keep making sureRay does not go anywhere close
to a moose, and Mark and Oscarcould both go to Moose's Tooth
Pizza and find something theylike.
Please advertise if you go toAnchorage for an event and I

(07:50):
would be blessed to go as well,ray.
Was that where we went?
Was it Anchorage when we wentto Alaska?

Speaker 3 (07:54):
I don't know if it was Anchorage, but it was Alaska
.
Yeah, I tried to pat a mooseActually that's an exaggeration.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
I was about 20 feet from it.
You kept going closer.
I had to stop you.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, well, it was a Dave and Goliath thing, just no
fear.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
It would have been Ray Comfort's loose tracks.
Remember when Ray was on thebull.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
On a what On the bull ?

Speaker 2 (08:12):
The bull.
He rode a bull.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Oh, the bull, the owner said whatever you do,
don't touch the horns.
And what did Ray do?

Speaker 3 (08:20):
First thing, Like a steering wheel.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
He's so used to being on a bike.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
That's it.
So what are they there for,anyway?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, steer, grim, steer to the steer.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
It's a steer, it's a bull.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah Well, thank you, sister Joy.
What an encouragement.
That's one of the things that Idelight in is seeing people
take what we aim to do, stirthem to share the gospel and
then apply it actually, and incontexts like that, wanting to
reach our students.
Ray, you're looking at me.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Oh, someone gave me a pencil with an eraser at both
ends and I thought to myselfthere's no point.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Good dad joke for the day.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Ray, that's good, good one, ray, and now
erratically revolutionaryresource.
This podcast is brought to youby the one big beautiful bill
Ray.
Tell us about it.
Tell us about it, it's giantmoney.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
It's just wonderful.
It's a great track to give out,because when you give it out,
people are thrilled to get it.
And what happens?
They walk through a crowd andpeople start where are they
getting those?
So come to the source and askfor more.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
It's wonderful and you go through a drive-thru and
you say to the person can youbreak a big bill?

Speaker 2 (09:29):
And it makes them laugh.
They're really, really cool.
Now, Mark, I think you're theone who forwarded to us
something exciting that happenedregarding the $100 bill.
Oh, that's right.
Yeah, share the story.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Well, there was somebody that wrote in to the
ministry.
It wasn't me.
I think we all received theletter, but it was it was from
Daniel.
Yeah from Daniel your son, yourbrother-in-law your friend, my
enemy, and so the guy he gavethe dollar bill, the bill, the
track to a guy who designed the$100 bill, the US $100 bill.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
The actual guy who designed it, the actual US $100
bill yeah, he drew who was on it.
He drew what?

Speaker 3 (10:07):
The gentleman Benjamin Franklin.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, Ben, I think well, I think he laid out the
whole bill.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
He did yeah he was in charge of the whole thing.
He helped design it and guidedthe whole process.
And he was thrilled to get it,and he that people gave it to
him and was holding it.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Next time tell him to sort of sneak in
livingwaterscom.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Right into the building.
But no, how cool is that.
You know the odds of himgetting one.
And then he's like, and I thinka lady said to them well, I
have some news for you, and shebrought them.
I don't know if it was herhusband or not, but what a joy
that's absolutely nothing.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
I got an email this morning and it was a guy who
loves the ministry, who's at theacademy, and he left a Gospel
of John a million-dollar Gospelof John, on this caregiver's car
on the door handle.
She came out during the night,saw it and called 911.
What she thought it was a drugdeal or something was going on.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
She thought it was a real stack of money.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
She thought it was a stack of money and the guy sent
pictures of it.
The police came, the officerreached out, took it, turned it
over and burst out laughing.
He said the guy is down atheadquarters.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
They're going to love this, that's great, she didn't
even want to touch it called thepolice.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
My kids one time were sliding the big $100 bills onto
people's windshields.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
While they were driving.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
While they were driving.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
yeah, so they were just like going through a
parking lot and handing it out.
And my son goes and puts onedown and looks over and there's
a lady sitting in the car andhe's like whoa.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
That's so sweet.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
You think of the trouble seriously, the trouble
seriously that has startedbecause of our hundred, our fbi
seized a bunch of fbi sees them.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
People have tried to cash them.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
I mean there's been news stories.
Yeah, I use them for lunch allright friends uh oh wait, oh,
the big beautiful bill.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
That's what we're talking about make sure to get
it and all that other good stuff.
Don't forget the living watersmug, from which you can chug
that in a study bible.
Don't forget Waters TV, whereyou could see us actually not
just hear us on the podcast, butsee us.
It gets worse If you want toright.
I couldn't.
Yeah, and don't forget thepodcast YouTube channel, friends
.
It's growing, you guys.

(12:17):
It's growing Thousands uponthousands of people Like a tumor
.
Yeah, exactly.
So make sure to check that outand check out all those things
at livingwaterscom.
All right, today, friends,we're talking about the dangers
of spiritual lukewarmness.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
And, to help me discuss this, my three lukewarm
friends Mark Ray and Austin.
I couldn't be botheredpreparing anything Lukewarm,
right, he's like just the wordright?

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, that term has become so common to us as
believers.
We hear it, we use it, sermonsare taught on it, we accuse
people of being it, but I'mchallenged today, honestly, to
look at the log in my eye,because I've come to realize,
when it comes to this, that'snot something I typically do

(13:07):
with myself Like to re-examinemy heart, challenge myself again
and say where do I stand inthis regard, and so I'm excited.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
How do you mean?
Can you explain that?
Where do you stand regardinglukewarmness?
You want a desire to belukewarm.
You don't want to be lukewarm?

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, because I want to be lukewarm.
How?

Speaker 1 (13:24):
am.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
I doing in my progression to lukewarm.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
He named one of his kids, Luke Warm Swing.
No one of my kids is named Luke.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
That's what I worried about.
But no, like you know, reallyjust looking and saying, have I
drifted, have I strayed from apassion for the Lord?
Because I think you know ittalks in Scripture about
comparing ourselves withourselves, and I think that's
oftentimes a danger.
It's setting up a standard andthen comparing ourselves to that

(13:52):
standard and saying, well,everyone around me look at them,
they do this and that, or don'tdo this and that.
I'm cool.
So I think a good place tostart is what is lukewarmness?
What is that thing that we allreally are called biblically to
flee from?
And we'll discuss it, obviouslyin accordance with the words of
Jesus.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
It's being lukewarm.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Okay, thank you.
Thank you for joining us.
Man Moving on.
So yeah, so let's jump into it.
Oscar, take it away.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
Oh, he chose me.
You did rocks isn't it?

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Me and Mark?

Speaker 4 (14:26):
both went like this and then we were going to
Rochambeau to see who goes first.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
But then Easy chose wisely.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
That's why he chooses me first.
I love that you started withlike let's explore definition.
I think we should go right torevelation to figure out what it
says, because I think oftenwhen we hear lukewarmness we
think immediately it can onlymean like we need to have an
exuberant amount of zeal, weneed to be on fire.

(14:52):
But Jesus' concern inRevelation 3 isn't necessarily
about your temperature, it'sabout where you put your trust.
Read the text yeah, we're goingto.
I'm prefacing.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
It's like the introduction, a pastoral
introduction.
That's the pastor in you.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yeah, yeah, these Christians weren't necessarily
cold and hot in faith.
Their problem, according toLuther, is that they were
self-satisfied and believed theycan be self-sufficient.
In other words, they builttheir hope on their own actions
rather than on the actions ofChrist.
And I think one of the bigthings about Revelation is like
often we think any verse inthere is immediately this doom

(15:29):
and gloom text, and that'sprobably the fault of some
preachers.
Whenever we preach onRevelation, it's a fortune
telling doom and gloom,everything's coming to an end.
But Revelation 1.1 tells usthat the entire book is a quote
revelation of Jesus Christ,which means, no matter where you
are in the book of Revelation,what you know for sure is that

(15:50):
the core message is this is agospel centered, hopeful message
, not one of fear.
And if you're ever readingRevelation and you lose sight of
that, you've lost sight ofverse one revelation of Jesus
Christ.
And so yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Oscar, I'm so glad you brought that up because I
highlighted something that Iwanted to make known in this
regard, and that's at thebeginning of Revelation, chapter
one.
As the introduction is beinggiven and Jesus is going to
speak to the churches, he saysJohn says to him who loved us
and washed us from our sins inhis own blood and has made us
kings and priests to his God.
John says to him who loved usand washed us from our sins in
his own blood and has made uskings and priests to his God and

(16:29):
father.
To him be glory and dominion.
So I mean he's prefacingeverything he's about to say to
the churches, which includesLaodicea with hey, he loved us,
he saved us, he washed us withhis blood.
So that's important, reallyimportant to remember.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
And then you get to 314 to 22,which is that lukewarm language.
And I love what Luther doeswith this.
He points out that often wethink again it's like this need
for absolute zeal and theproblem with that is that the
anxious Christian might walkaway thinking like am I doing
enough?
Am I truly saved, am I goodenough?

(17:03):
And if you walk away afterhearing about lukewarmness,
thinking am I doing enough, am Itruly saved, am I good enough?
And if you walk away afterhearing about lukewarmness
thinking am I doing enough?
Man, we've lost focus becausethe point isn't your effort but
Christ's sufficiency.
In other words, the realproblem isn't temperature, it's
trust.
He says in 317, you say I amrich, not realizing you are
wretched, pitiful and poor.

(17:25):
Luther's commentary points outthat a lowercase g God is
anything that you rely on forsufficiency of salvation, for
goodness or for refuge indistress.
In other words, theseChristians were lukewarm, not
because they didn't have enoughzeal, but because they trusted

(17:45):
in their own works and not thework of Christ.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, amen, yeah.
And there are commentators, too, that also talk about the fact
that a lot of these Laodiceanswere extremely wealthy, and
hence the language of you'retrusting in yourself, you're
riches, and so there was thatelement, too, also of what's
associated with that.
I love that you made that point.

(18:08):
There's that introspection oflooking to self, but that leads
to all kinds of things.
So often the manifestation oflukewarmness is a life that is
lacking in zeal, but it's likethe problem is they're not
looking to Christ, they're nottrusting in Him and then being
zealous for good works becausethey're in love with Jesus, they
left their first love, you know, in a sense, A little

(18:32):
historical context here.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Right, laodicea we talked about it being kind of
the financial district we have alot of riches going on but one
thing that they lacked was water.
They didn't have any naturalsprings.
So there were two towns thatwere nearby them, between six to
ten miles away with Hierapolis,and then you had Colossa, and
so Hierapolis would have naturalhot springs and Colossa would

(18:53):
have cold springs, and sincethere was no natural springs,
there were aqueducts that wouldgo between the three cities.
When the water would arrive, itwould arrive lukewarm, it would
arrive with impurities.
It would arrive with impurities.
It would arrive with thingsthat you would not want bacteria
, even disease.
Even so, when Jesus, when thisword is being spoken, when the
church is hearing this, they'reunderstanding this because they

(19:16):
did not want, they would neverdream about just drinking the
water, as is.
When it would arrive, and herewe have, it turned over and
saying you're lukewarm.
The very thing that you hate,the very thing that you preach
against, the very thing that youdetest, is what you have become
.
We got to be careful with that,and that's what riches does.

(19:37):
Right, you were going to saysomething.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
No, I love that you pointed that out, because it
actually gives context to thereason why Jesus is using the
phrase lukewarm.
Because, to combine what bothof you just said, these people
are rich, they're wealthy,they're influential and a
cultural embarrassment is theirwater, and so it's like finding
the rich elite living inHollywood and going you
smog-filled lung person.
It's like you're reminding themyou might have it all, but you

(20:04):
still live where you live.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, it sounds like.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Cain and Ham.
To me it does, yeah, and Ithink a good point is made.
The two words used in the Greekfor hot and cold actually carry
with them the connotation ofboiling hot and freezing cold.
So often we think, oh, we needto be hot.
The issue Jesus is saying bothare positive.
It's the lukewarm that is thenegative.

(20:28):
It's like have usefulness.
Be hot for what's needed forhot water, be cold for what's
needed for cold things.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, I liken it to milk.
You like your milk, either hotand stimulating, or cold and
refreshing, but lukewarm milkwith yellow lumps in it is going
to make you sick.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Sour milk.
Seriously, I got it.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
And so, if you liken it to marriage, I've never, ever
become lukewarm about my wife.
I've always been hot for herand it's never gone, and that's
what we should be like.
If I fell asleep reading a loveletter from her not that she
sends them I'll have to tell her.
To send one.
That would be an insult to herand that's why, when we read the

(21:10):
word, we've got to realizethat's a love letter to us and
so we should do everything wecan to cultivate our marriage.
And I've found a great key tocultivating a good marriage and,
as we're talking about thismorning, I've been married for
110 years, Sue 55, me 55.
And that marriage has alwaysbeen a good marriage because of
one thing, and that is you giveup your will.

(21:30):
When you get married, you say,not my will, but yours be done.
And what I love to do is jumpto something that Sue wants me
to do, Like last night she saidthe front door handle's loose.
That's her saying fix it.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
That's how I interpret it.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
She doesn't say that, but immediately I say I am the
man, I am the guy that gets thescrewdriver and fixes this.
And I got up and fixed it and Idelighted to do that because it
made her happy.
It was just a little thing butit's continually like that.
She said we've got to put thetrash out.
Tonight that's when I take thetrash out and I run to do it
because I know it pleases herand I delight to do her will.
And that's the key tosuccessful Christian living.

(22:09):
You delight to do the will ofGod.
You run to do His will in thelight of the cross, because that
was evidence of God's love forus.
We love him because he firstloved us.
And how can we not be zealousfor him with all our heart, mind
, soul and strength because ofhis love.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Wow, I just got a text from Sue.
It's my will to give Easy a lotof money.
Come on Ray.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
Speaking of lukewarm milk, the $1 million.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Gospel of John is yours.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
Ray, speaking of lukewarm milk.
The Navarros call that chunkymilk and we've convinced our kid
it's a delicacy.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
When the budget's tight.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, yeah, it's chunky milk.
We got chunky milk.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, I still don't understand your guys' milk.
I just got something to say.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
I had a friend, you guys know him, he's a plumber,
and we're talking about marriageor something, and suddenly he
gets a call from his wife andthis is how he answers what's up
?

Speaker 1 (23:03):
To his wife.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
So I said I love you, I love you, I love you.
And you know what he said.
Ray says he loves you.
He just carried on, didn't missa beat or even smile.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Oh, that's good.
Yeah, redwick and Green put itthis way.
They said the church inLaodicea was providing neither
refreshment for the spirituallyweary nor healing for the
spiritually sick.
It was totally ineffective andthis distasteful to its Lord.
Oh, I mean, mark, really, inessence, we forget that the

(23:40):
church has a mandate, and themandate is that we be the salt
and light that we're called tobe.
In that regard, I mean, we'retalking about water, obviously
here, but this applies in termsof the effectiveness we're
called to have in the world.
There are times when I stepback and I say honestly, what
would the world look likewithout the church?

(24:00):
And then I go a step furtherwhat would the world look like
if the church was fully beingthe salt and light it's supposed
to be?
That's a good point, so I'dlove your thoughts on that.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
People tend to have a really great start when they
become a Christian and thenthings tend to fade away.
I think the church at Ephesuswas like that.
You know, when we look at theseven letters that were written,
listen to this To the church,to the angel of the church in
Ephesus write I know your works,your toil, your patient
endurance and how you cannotbear with those who are evil and

(24:30):
have tested, those who callthemselves apostles and are not.
And you found them to be false.
And he goes on.
He says hey, I know yourpatience, I know how you don't
want to put up with the evilnessthat's around.
However, don't want to put upwith the evilness that's around,
however, I have this one thingagainst you you have left your
first love.
Now here's the thing.
They had a really, really greatstart, right.
Paul, timothy and John werepillars there at the church at

(24:51):
Ephesus.
Really great start.
You can't have better leaders,better pastors better letters,
better commentary to start off.
But then something happened.
Right, you left your first love.
Your love didn't leave you.
You left your first love.
And I often tell people, I sayyou know God's love, his
patience, his wisdom.

(25:12):
You know it's not hiding fromus, it's hiding for us.
But oftentimes we turn our backfrom that and we go wandering
away and we say God, speak to me.
He says, well, I've spoken toyou, but you're not heeding what
I've spoken to you.
But if you want to know my willfor you, just return to the
Word, remember where you fell,return and repent.

(25:32):
Have that change in the mindwhich will lead to that change
of action.
I'm utterly convinced, boththrough experience and what I
see in God's Word, that God doesnot speak English as much as he
speaks heart-ish.
I think we might have talkedabout this in the past, and that
is, we think through our manywords that were heard.
Right?

(25:54):
Was it Martin Luther that saidI have so much to do today that
I must spend the first threehours in prayer?
Yes, or something along thoselines.
I mean our minds begin to gowait what in the world?
And it's not by our many wordsthat we're heard.
It's as if God's ear is downnear our heart, right, that
groaning, that innermost man whosays Lord, look, I think I want
this, but whatever you want,your will be done.

(26:15):
I want this, but this, whateveryou want to do, nevertheless
not my will, but your will bedone.
Isaiah 29, it says this peopledraw near with their mouth and
with their hearts.
They are far from me.
Lip service.
It doesn't move the heart ofGod, so we need to be careful
with that.
So how many times have weentered into prayer where we're

(26:37):
just thinking through and whenwhat actually comes out is just
a word here, thinking through,and what actually comes out is
just a word here and a wordthere, and a groaning here and a
groaning there until I'm justout of words?
Somebody once said pray untilyou've prayed, until you've had

(26:57):
that breakthrough to where youcan move on to something else.
And when we talk about beingsalt and being light, there in
John chapter 8, salt and be inlight there in John chapter 8,
we have these four hugecandelabras.
The feast of the festival oflights, the feast of tabernacles
had just finished and thelights are out.
But you think that eight daysit would take place where the

(27:18):
priest would enter in and hewould pour in the oil, he would
light the wick and it wouldlight up all of Jerusalem, right
, and then, when he would dothat, the people would remember
how God led the children ofIsrael through the wilderness.
And then, all of a sudden, thelights go out.
It's the end of the festival.
And then Jesus stands upthinking Ichabod, the glory has

(27:39):
departed.
Up, thinking Ichabod, the gloryhas departed.
And here he is now saying theShekinah is back, the light is
back.
And behold, I am the light ofthe world, and he who follows me
shall not walk in darkness butshall have the light of life.
This is in opposition to whatthe Sadducees and the Pharisees

(28:01):
and the scribes, how they'retrying to trip him up inside of
a snare.
We have the woman caught in theact of adultery, right, all of
these things happening, and nowhim being the light of the world
.
He now looks over at us and hesays you are the light and the
salt.
Now go, do and be what I havecalled you to.
Go, do and be, not by your ownmerits, but it's Christ in you,

(28:29):
the hope of glory.
I'm not calling you to bearfruit, I will bear fruit through
you, as you abide in me.
The vine Israel is not the vine, I'm the vine, and follow me
and walk with me and you'll beseasoned for every single moment
that I put you in.
I love that, mark it's just areminder that I put you in.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Mark, it's just a reminder this is a side note,
but related to what you justsaid the beauty of expositing
God's Word, of gainingunderstanding of the background,
just like what we're doing withthe Church of Laodicea, but
contexts like that that bringthe Word to life.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
I spoke to a guy the other day.
I said you read the Bible?
He says no, no, I.
I spoke to a guy the other day.
I said you read your Bible?
He says no, no, I keep it in mycar to protect me.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Whoa Good luck charm huh.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yeah, and that's what I said to him.
I said, no, this is God's loveletter to you, so it was
interesting.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, and you know, we have to remember, guys, that
good works are good words, goodworks are good words, Good works
are good words.
But they've been given a badrap because of how they've been
twisted and how they've beenassociated with salvation, right
, works-based salvation, sowe've thrown the baby out with

(29:32):
the bathwater.
Whenever we hear those words,we kind of like oh good works,
whoa, they're biblical.
What does it tell us in Titus?
That he wants to purify forhimself his own special people,
zealous for good works?
I mean we quote Ephesians2.8.9,.
By grace, you've been savedthrough faith.
That not of yourselves.
It's the gift of God, not ofworks, lest anyone should boast.

(29:52):
Verse 10, for we are hisworkmanship, created in Christ
Jesus for good works, which Godprepared beforehand that we
should walk in them.
2 Timothy 2, we can be preparedfor every good work.
He who cleanses himself fromthe latter will be a vessel of
honor, sanctified, useful forthe master, prepared for every
good work, every good workprepared for us.

(30:13):
We're prepared for it.
Right, we've talked about it,the divine convergence, but we
have to understand that, thatit's good to be engaged with
zeal for the Lord, to not have alukewarmness about us in the
way that we conduct ourselves,because we're saved by grace.
And what does grace do?
Titus is clear.

(30:33):
The grace of God that bringssalvation has appeared to all
men, teaching us that, denyingungodliness and all worldly
lusts, we should live soberly,righteously and godly in this
present age.
It stirs us right, ray.
I mean God's grace sets us free.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yes, and that reminds me of the fact that we've got
rats in our chicken coop.
Oh wonderful.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
God's grace, shout out rats in my chicken coop.
Everything goes back to rats inRay's chicken coop.

Speaker 4 (30:59):
I'm hungry Rats in my chicken coop.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
I to rats and raise chickens.
I'm hungry Rats and my chickens.
I grabbed a piece of wood.
We're having construction inthe ministry and I grabbed a
piece of wood the other dayQuite a big piece and I took it
home because it was in the trash.
And I went to pick it up and Igot a splinter.
It was at least half an inchlong, which is long for a
splinter, and being a man ofcourage and humility, I just
pulled it out without.
Anyway, two days later this isjust yesterday last night I

(31:23):
noticed my finger was hurtingand it seemed a little swollen
and lumpy.
So I said to Sue what do youthink this is?
She says that splinter's stillin there.
So she got a needle and startedpoking.
Now that brought my memory backto when I was seven years old.
The local beach had this oldwooden pier and as a
seven-year-old I slid down apiece of wood on the pier and I

(31:45):
got a splinter in my hindermostpart, and so I found myself
that's the biblical way to putit.
I found myself lying on thekitchen table with the whole
family around me and a needledigging it out, and I still
remember the pain.
But with this instance withthis splinter.
It didn't hurt because I hadthe brains to take a piece of
ice out of the fridge and youhold it on the area until it

(32:06):
loses its feeling.
It really did work and Suecouldn't find it.
She says I think it's delirious.
So I got my thumbnails andsqueezed as hard as I could and
it started hurting.
Out came some liquid and thissplinter that was so like I
didn't want to say the word pass.

Speaker 4 (32:23):
Pass is a horrible word to say on a podcast.
I was laughing because we needa disclaimer.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
Ray Comfort does not advise medical advice those
living waters can do anythingthat Ray does.
Out came this, this minute,tiny, tiny piece of wood.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
I thought you were going to say this big, long no,
no, it was just.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
You could hardly see it and I thought my body was
saying get this foreign matterout of here, because this is
going to go poison.
And when you let something gopoison, you can lose your whole
hand or your arm.
And so that's how we should bewith sin, because it's going to
poison the soul.
That'll cause lukewarmness.
If you give yourself to any sin, whether it be pornography or
whatever, what you've got to dois squeeze it out, even if it

(32:59):
hurts.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, yeah, okay, let's go here, because I think
we have to start with thefoundation.
That is a necessity for thesins associated with
lukewarmness, and that is beingzealous to repent.
Yeah Right, that's languageused to the churches.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
That's the thumbs.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, yeah, what's used to the churches, that's the
thumbs, yeah, so, mark, I'dlove for you to touch on the
sweetness of repentance to thebeliever, because there is
something in us.
It's almost like the term goodworks.
There's something in us,there's a reaction.
We hear repentance and negativethings come to mind because we
associate that with sin, butspeak about the hope of
repentance and being zealous forit.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
Yeah, so that Greek word, metanoia, which means to
change your mind, which willalways, 100% of the time, lead
to a change of action.
You cannot say that yourepented and still remain the
same.
Macarthur said that ourrepentance needs to be louder
than our sin was.
Thomas Watson said repentanceis the vomit of the soul.

(34:03):
It's kind of a grotesquethought, but it's turning from
the sins that we love to the Godthat we are called to love.
Leonard Ravenhill said.
So when you are repenting, it'snot so much that I am turning
from my sin, that becomes thework.
That becomes the work when I'mjust turning from my sin.
The object of repentance isChrist.

(34:27):
So when I turn towards Christ,with God's help, I naturally,
supernaturally, am turning frommy sin.
So when we hear you shall notlust, don't lie, don't steal,
and you begin to beat yourselfup because you're saying how do

(34:47):
I stop these things?
The sirens are so loud insidemy life.
I get pushed up against therocks and I get demolished by
the waves, wave after wave afterwave.
So what we need to recognize isthat there is a sweeter voice
than the voice of the worldsaying, hey, just take a quick
peek and you say, nope, I'm notgoing to do it right, Not one

(35:11):
peek even.
I'm not going to do it.
But it's more than that.
It's a turning to him.
And as I turn to him, I amturning my back on not just lust
, not just lying, but stealingcovetousness, dishonoring my
parents.
When my eyes are on the Lord, Ileave behind the tumultuousness
of my sin.

(35:32):
This is what is so beautifulabout repentance If I'm just
turning from one vice, I'm goingto turn to another vice.
Unless my back is on him, allvices are left behind.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
Wow, I love that.
And I think, to kind ofsummarize, because your question
is like how do we embrace it?
And, first and foremost, Ithink often when we talk about
repentance, we act as thoughthat's the thing that we do when
we become Christian.
But what you're alluding to isLuther's quote when he says when
our Lord and master, jesusChrist, said repent, he intended

(36:06):
that the entire life ofbelievers should be repentance,
and the reason why he meant thatis because he recognized that
there are all these littleshadowy spaces in our heart, and
then, ultimately, we arejustified through the blood of
Christ.
But then there's this work ofsanctification, and the work of

(36:27):
sanctification is us becomingmore and more like our savior,
jesus.
And so what?
Why run to repentance?
Because, man, when the Lordconvicts you, ultimately what's
happening in that moment isyou're discovering an area of
your heart in which is notChrist-like, and repentance
leads you to a greaterChrist-likeness.

(36:49):
And what more do we want thanto be like the ones we adore?
And who should we adore morethan our Lord?

Speaker 2 (36:57):
and Savior, amen.
Man guys, I'm getting sostirred just talking about this,
you know on a personal levelBecause you know we do the
podcast.
But the point is to dispenseedification, but we get edified
as well.
One of the coolest things I'veever heard was the derogatory
term that was leveled atRomanians.
In Romania, the Christians theywould call them repenters,

(37:20):
repenters.
What a cool thing to be knownas.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
That dude's a repenter, wow, praise the Lord
right, it's also Jesus, freak.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah right.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
I can handle that.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
It's wonderful, they're in love with Jesus.
How awesome, you know.
But I love the combination ofwhat you guys are talking about,
right, oscar?
In terms of Laodicea, it's likelook, no, look to Christ.
You're looking at yourself.
What keeps us from being zealousto repent?
Because here's my whole thingIn our desire to be zealous for
the Lord, passionate, notlukewarm we have to understand

(37:51):
that we first have to before webecome consistent in avoiding a
life of sin which is displeasingto the Lord.
We have to become consistent ingenuinely repenting, which
means we have, yeah, that changeof heart and mind about our sin
that leads to us forsaking itand turning from it.
But we have to becomeconsistent in repenting of it

(38:13):
genuinely before we becomeconsistent in avoiding it.
And so I think we need torecognize that there is joy in
repentance.
What keeps us from repenting?
Pride, self, self-sufficiency,image.
Right, I mean, why don't weapologize to our kids when we
blow it and they knew we blew it?
We know we blew it and we don'tapologize?
Or with our wives, orconfessing sin to each other, or

(38:35):
humbling ourselves when we knowwe didn't handle something
right?
It's that image, it's thatpride.
We're more concerned, at theend of the day, with what
someone's going to think aboutus.
Oh, that we made a mistake,that we blew it, that we're
whatever, rather than what theLord thinks, and that's the
tragedy.
So we have to get back to thatzeal of like man.

(38:55):
I want to be right with theLord.
Ray, I'd love you to talk aboutthe things that often keep us
from zeal for the Lord.
Yeah, that reminds, me of ratsPerfect, tell us about your
zealous rats.
But, what are the things thatare the hindrances that keep us
from being hot?
You share that story often ofwhat you did when you were a new

(39:16):
believer and how things havechanged now.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
What you?
What did I do as a new believer?
What you did?

Speaker 2 (39:23):
about the bus and the letters and what you used to do
evangelistically, that wholething, oh well.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
I was a maniac when I first became a Christian.
Well, don't steal my thunder,Sorry, yeah.
When I became a Christian I hadsuch a zeal in my heart.
I mean, the first thing Ithought was my parents, my
beloved parents, are going tohell if they die in their sins,
my neighbors, my friends, myworkmates.
So I did everything I could toreach the lost.

(39:51):
I got some gospel tracts.
I found that you could gettracts.
I began giving them out.
I got a printing press.
It was called an Arab printingpress.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
I like it.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
I made it.
It was actually.
It didn't have a motor.
You cranked a handle and thisbig thing opened up like a mouth
and came in.
If you got your hand in thatthing it would just get utterly
crushed.
Was that the Gestetner?
No, no, that was completelydifferent.
This thing was huge.
It was a monster.
I put it in a house and printedtracks on it and then I got a
billboard and put it in front ofour house.
Then I got sign writing put onmy car and I got a bus.

(40:24):
It was a 34-seater bus and inprofessional sign writing, put
it on the side the gift of Godis eternal life through Jesus
Christ, our Lord.
On the other side, jesus saidI'm the way, the truth and the
life.
Then on the front window of mybusiness I had John, chapter 3,
verses 1 to 16, in three-inchsign writing, professional sign

(40:44):
writing.
On the front I had posters onthe door.
Anything I did I did to try andreach the lost.
So in summation, oh, and I gota soapbox and preached in the
local square each day for 12years.
So if anyone could have beenconsidered a religious nut in
those days, it was me.
Nowadays I'm much worse.
It's so true, yeah, I'm muchworse, it's so true.
Yeah, the fire's built and Ilove the whole thought is your

(41:09):
zeal has provoked very many.
If you get with zealousChristians.
That's one thing I find aboutour academy.
I think how is it that people'slives have changed?
They come here and for two tothree days they go witnessing
and they say my life has changed.
And I think, how did thathappen?
And it comes back again andagain.
I got with people of like mindand that's what stirred the fire

(41:30):
.
And I know, if you can, I couldyawn in the studio today and
get you guys yawning If I did agood yawn.
And same with laughter.
If we started laughing,everyone joins in.
What are we laughing at?
And same with laughter.
If we started laughing,everyone joins in.
What are we laughing at?
And so certain things arecontagious and zeal is
contagious.
It's like a fire.
So if you get along amongstzealous Christians, you'll find
a stirred fire within your heart.

(41:51):
Even today, listening to whatwe're talking about can set a
fire going in your heart.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, amen, yeah.
One of my favorite books isDisciplines of a Godly man by
Arkant Hughes.
We've had Dr Hughes here inthis very studio and what a
powerful book.
I mean it's crazy.
It's still like number one formen's issues on Amazon and the
book's like, I think, 30, 40years old.
But I've taken several peoplethrough it.
I'm taking my son one of mysons through it right now.

(42:16):
You might be the one keeping itat number one, probably
Seriously.
I've taken a lot of men throughit and recommended it.
But in the opening of the bookhe talks about zeal for the Lord
and passion for the Lord andfor godliness and he talks about
different men who were just sodedicated and devoted in life.
He started that out by talkingabout Mike Singletary, the

(42:36):
football player, and just hiszeal for the game.
He said he would watch a singleplay 50 to 60 times.
It took him three and a halfhours to watch through a half of
a football game.
He'd sit back and watch tape,he said because he watched every
player, because he knew theopposition's tendency given the
down distance, hash mark andtime remaining and because he
read the opposition's mindthrough their stances, he was

(42:59):
often moving toward the ball'spreplanned destination before
the play developed.
This is what I call and this iswhat I want us to really hone
in on.
This is what I call the all-inattitude.
Right, when someone says he'sall-in, I'm all-in, that means
I'm totally devoted, totallycommitted, totally dedicated.
You know, you talk aboutMichael Phelps, the most

(43:21):
decorated Olympian of all time28 medals, 23 of them gold and
he talked about how that was theresult of thousands of hours
and miles of disciplined boredomin the pool Not a good way to
put it.
Thousands of hours and miles ofdisciplined boredom.

(43:41):
You're just doing it again andagain.
But when he entered thatcompetitive arena he accelerated
and he soared.
You know, you think of guyslike Steph Curry.
He'd shoot between 600 and 700baskets, counting only the ones
that he made in a regiment.
On intense shooting days it'dgo up to like 1,000.

(44:02):
Winston Churchill you guys knowWinston Churchill.
He's believed to be one of thegreatest orators of all time.
He had a massive speechimpediment, so he would practice
in front of the mirrorrelentlessly.
He practiced the pauses, hepracticed his stumblings, he'd
work them in, he paused forapplause.
I mean, he knew, but naturallyhe was weak.
But there was this zeal andpassion that was given over.

(44:25):
And I say all that to say thatwhen we hear stuff like this,
the world cheers Atta boy Right,whether it's in sports or it's
in business, or it's inacademics or career man, someone
that's going all out, we cheerthem on, we talk positively, but
it seems that as soon as weapply that to the faith, ah,

(44:46):
slow down, brother, don't getlegalistic on me here.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Don't be so heavenly minded, you know.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah and all the trite sayings come out.
But how sad, how sad that we dothat.
Oh relax, you know who doesthat, with someone who says oh
man, you know, I've been smokingfor 30 years and I just quit.
It was so hard I did this andthat I went through this regimen
.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Why Relax, go for it, you know?

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Or someone who quit drugs?
Quit drugs?
Of course not.
We encourage people in that,but I think it's honestly a
demonic agenda that wants tokeep Christians in totality and
fullness, being the salt andlight that we're called to be.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
And we're talking about something eternal.
We're not talking about theworld.
Michael Phelps, what 26 medals?
Gold medals Was it 26?
28.
He suffered from terribledepression.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
28 he suffered from terrible depression.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
He suffered from terrible depression to a point
in what he was, suicidal.
That's right, and that's whatthe world can give you nothing,
it's chasing the wind, thepraise of men.
So how much more should we bezealous for the god that gave us
life?

Speaker 1 (45:45):
yeah, amen mark we need to put into our christian
regiment what collegiateathletes put in right Secular
universities, a secular collegestudent who's trying to win a
national championship, the wholeidea.
The mentality is go hard or gohome.
We need to have the mentalitygo hard because we are almost

(46:05):
home right.
That we see the finish lineright.
It's just right there.
You brought up WinstonChurchill.
Winston Churchill was sick inthe hospital.
He had a friend come and visithim and the question was asked
to Winston Churchill what areyou working on, what are you
writing there?
And he said I'm working on mynext impromptu speech.
That is the mentality that inorder to be ready in season, out

(46:28):
of season, which are the onlytwo times we're called to be
ready, which is at any and allmoments we need to have the Word
inside of us.
We go through the Word, but theWord needs to go through us.
We need to pray in the Wordcontinually.
Leonard Ravenhill, therevivalist preacher, who we're
very familiar with, he said theonly reason we do not have
revival is because we arewilling to live without it.

(46:51):
Amen, ouch.
What will a hungry man eat ifhe's hungry enough?
Anything In and out, anythingright.
The best seasoning is hunger.
So when you begin to hunger andthirst after the righteousness
of Christ, then what the worldattempts to give you will not
satisfy.
Yeah, I want to be just done,and this is where we're at right

(47:13):
.
We want to surround ourselveswith people who have a high,
lofty, sovereign view of God,that God can do whatever he
wants, whenever he wants, towhomever he wants, through
anyone, at any moment.
And we're saying well, here amI and I'm done saying here am I
send him, here am I send me.
Use me for your glory at allcosts, no matter the cost,

(47:36):
because time is quick.
2 Timothy 3, 5, having theappearance of godliness but
denying its power.
Avoid such people.
What does lukewarmness do?
It puts on the jersey, but it'snot ready for the game.
And so many Christians aretreating this like a game, like

(47:57):
it's a playground, but it's abattleground.
So we need to gird up and go.
Ah, so good, mark.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
Your emphasis on how this isn't works.
Righteousness reminds me of thestory that the late Dr Timothy
Killers tells he was giving thissermon in New York about.
The late Dr Timothy Killerstells he was giving this sermon
in New York aboutself-righteousness and versus
faith and he said after thesermon, this woman who was not a
Christian yet later became aChristian shortly after the

(48:23):
sermon walks up to him and shegoes.
That sermon petrifies me.
And he says why.
And she goes.
Well, you helped me realize shegoes.
She has something to the effectof like if my salvation is
based on things I can do, thenthere's only so much Christ can
ask of me.
But if my salvation truly isall about what he has done for

(48:47):
me, then there is nothing he canask of me that I shouldn't
already give him.
Wow, so good Isn't that good.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
That moved me emotionally, man, that's good
You're going to cry.
I see it, it's coming.
The eyes are moist.
Yeah, no, it's so, true man,it's being enamored with Christ.
Here's a definition I wrote ofzeal.
Zeal is a burning passion toglorify God.
It's fueled by the knowledge ofhis word, empowered by his

(49:17):
spirit and manifested throughwholehearted obedience that is
motivated by a genuine love forthe Lord and others.
And often I think we get caughtup in the thinking that zeal
has to be always this just likeah, loud and intense.
I love this definition by RalphCudworth.
He said let us take heed.
We do not sometimes call thatzeal for God and his gospel,

(49:40):
which is nothing else but ourown tempestuous and stormy
passion.
True zeal is a sweet, heavenlyand gentle flame which makes us
active for God, but alwayswithin the sphere of love.
It never calls for fire fromheaven to consume those who
differ a little from us.
It strives to save the soul buthurts not the body.

(50:00):
True zeal is a loving thing andmakes us always active to
edification and not todestruction.
Right, because, mark, sometimesthere are a lot of people that
go out there in the name of zealand that destroy all kinds of
things, whether it's theirwitness or other believers,
right?

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah, zeal without knowledge is what Stupid, Stupid
Spurgeon said if Christ is notall to you, then he's nothing to
you.
This is every facet of yourlife.
I remember coming home fromBible college and going to meet
Thomas Kinkade the artist, and Ihad my Bible with me and I was

(50:42):
with a loved one and the lovedone had looked at me and said,
why are you bringing your Bible?
And I said, if I have like twominutes to myself, I just want
to meditate on something.
And he was like, and his mindcould not comprehend the fact
that I'm always, continually,constantly looking for the
opportunity to come aside andrest a while and I find my rest

(51:03):
in Christ.
You know, there's a differencebetween an atheist and a
practical atheist.
Right, An atheist comes alongand says there is no God, but a
practical atheist is one whosays there is a god but then
lives as if there is no god.
Yeah, right, and unfortunatelywe have a lot of people that
come to church that are justlike that that they will come to
church not realizing that theyare the church and when they

(51:26):
leave the church, they are nolonger acting like the church
because they think that it isdelegated to just a building.
But no, it's everything.
That when you come to Christ,it's everything or it's nothing.
Jc Ryle, he said half-heartedChristianity is the worst kind
of religion.
Half-hearted Christianity isthe worst.

(51:46):
I mean, you either believe itor you don't.
And if you believe it, thenanything and everything he says
it is well with my soul.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, amen.
Yeah, you think about whatpeople do for a lie.
There used to be a programyears ago that said are you
willing to do for the truth whatcultists and those in false
religions do for a lie?
And you think about whatdifferent people in different
religious groups do I meanMuslims, many of them.

(52:15):
They have a word it's calledhafiz, because so many have done
it who've memorized the entireQuran, and you think about that,
the sadness of that.
You're filling your heart andmind with a lie, basically, but
they're doing it.
You think of what Mormons aredoing.
They're going around the world,they're setting aside, I think,
isn't it?
Two?

Speaker 1 (52:34):
years for a mission.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Two years of their lives in a foreign land.
They'll go away from wheretheir home is.
Knocking on doors, riding bikesIs that where you got the idea?
Without a dog, though, that'sthe problem.
Again, jehovah's Witnesses,they set aside so much time
going door to door, in theirarea, where they live, where
people who may know them willsee them.

(52:56):
All these things that are done,and yet we can do them on the
basis of the truth, not to earnour salvation, but to
demonstrate our love for theLord.
Yeah, exactly, I love thatwell-known verse do this and
live.
The law demands, but gives youneither feet nor hands.
A better word the gospel brings.

(53:17):
It bids us fly and gives uswings.
Right, ray, it's the gospel.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
That's what fuels us.
How can we not be filled withzeal?
And I'm the only one in herethat can say I was born in New
Zealand.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Ooh, look at that humility on his face.
Do that nod again, Randy?

Speaker 4 (53:36):
Right, right, like the bobblehead, the living
bobblehead.
To bring it back to Revelation 3and just to show how
hopefulness in the gospel istruly all over this book, and so
is Christ.
It's Christ who goes and knockson the door in Revelation 21.

(53:57):
He says I will grant.
He doesn't say you're going toearn it, you're going to get
yourself there.
I will grant to sit with me onmy throne.
That's just a reminder to usthat salvation isn't through
zeal, passion or performance.
It's through union with theLamb, grace, through faith and

(54:17):
when we truly reflect on thelove of God.
It's like Thomas Chalmers' bookthe Expulsive Power of a New
Affection.
When you see the glory of God,when you truly understand the
way in which he loves you, itrearranges your affections in
these acts of obedience.
That we're talking about, thedesire for you to read and

(54:40):
meditate on God's word and inmoments of slow times, and our
love for preaching the gospel.
That comes not out of thistireless work method.
It comes out of a response tothe work God has done for us on
the cross.
Amen.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Yeah, it's got to, it's got to be in connection
with him.
I've shared this verse before.
But a Christian artist in oneof his songs he was painting
kind of a Pilgrim's Progresssort of a scene and this guy's
running toward the kingdom buthe's fighting off sin and the
porn monster's trying to attackhim, you know, and just wrap its

(55:17):
tentacles around him and hesaid with my sword I hacked it
to pieces because I'm way moreattracted to Jesus and that just
moved me.
I'm like, exactly, we become soenamored with him, so
passionate about him, so in lovewith him, so rooted in him,
right that you may know what isa width and length and depth and

(55:38):
height, to know the love ofChrist which passes, knowledge
that you may be filled with allthe fullness of God Bursting at
the seams.
Easy you should put out theemphasis Bible.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Ah, I like that Bursting at the seams.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
It's all caps, the whole thing, all caps, all
highlighted.
It's like when Ron sends outurgent emails everything is all
caps and bold.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah, yeah.
So that's good, ray.
I'd love you to just speak aword of encouragement to those
listening right now that aresaying you know, I am lukewarm,
I am convicted, this is whereI'm at.
Where do they begin to get outof that?

Speaker 3 (56:13):
and become comfortable.
Well, zeal is the accelerationthat comes from a high-octane
fuel of gratitude.
If you lack gratitude, you'lllack zeal, and gratitude for me
comes solely from the cross.
It's from seeing what I deserveto what I actually got.
It's understanding grace, god'smercy, the judge looking down
and having pity on the criminaland extending mercy towards them

(56:35):
, and so that's what continuallyfeeds my zeal.
It gets rid of my fears, itgets.
It's getting my my head turnedfrom sin.
Uh, just look into that cross,the cross before me, the world
behind me.
So that's the key.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Amen, mark, I'd love you to give a word too.
Encourage people.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
I think lukewarmness always overemphasizes its own
temperature, right, that we needother people to look inside of
our lives and, withaccountability, say, hey, you
got a little something going onhere.
Or hey, when you are talking toyour kid, when you're talking
to your wife, when you did thatproject, I just think that there
might be something a little bitbetter on how you might be able

(57:14):
to handle that.
Let's tackle this together,right?
And I think that's kind of withlukewarmness, right, when we go
out into the ocean, the ocean's, you know, not too far from us,
and you're out there and you'rehaving a great time, and you
look back and before you realizeit, you just drifted.
Your lifeguard station 10 ishere and now you're at lifeguard
station 165, right, it's thatquick.

(57:36):
And you're just kind of goingthrough the motions.
You're just kind of living life, doing the daily grind, not
realizing and recognizing thatevery decision we make, it kind
of balances on a razor's edge,not going between heaven and
hell, but it's just.
Is that the right thing to do?
And we don't need to overthinkit, we don't need to
over-spiritualize it, we don'tneed to mystify it, we just need

(57:57):
to stay inside the Word.
Right?
You're talking about hackingthat porn problem to pieces,
hacking that sin.
If you're not hacking sin intopieces, sin is waiting to hack
you to pieces.
And it's just one littlethought at a time, one little
action at a time.
Revelation 3.17,.
For you say I am rich, notrealizing that you are wretched,

(58:19):
poor, blind and naked.
Right, we need to realize thatin order to live this life, god
has designed us to go throughthis life with other people, and
if you do not welcome somebodyto speak freely inside your life
, you're probably lukewarm.

(58:40):
If you have not had somebodycorrect you in the last couple
weeks, you're probably lukewarm.
Why are you in a position whereyou don't allow people to speak
inside your life?
Right?
Who was it that said be killingsin or sin will be killing you?
That's just the mentality, thatsin is knocking at the door,

(59:00):
and it doesn't come necessarilyin the picture of an adulterous
woman who is wanting to do herthing.
It comes with just a word thatshouldn't have been spoken, a
glance that just stayed a littletoo long, a tiny splinter, and
if you don't nab that thingquickly, it's going to nab you

(59:23):
slowly before you realize thatyou are so far down in the ocean
that you have no idea how toget back, wow so good Mark.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
You know, I think ultimately the greatest danger
of spiritual lukewarmness isthat Christ does not receive our
all, and that should grieve us.
You know, Scripture talks aboutwalking in a manner worthy of
the Lord, walking in a mannerworthy of the gospel, and that

(59:51):
language there gives the imageryof a scale where the object on
one side is equal to what youput on the other side.
The object is the calling, theobject is the Lord, and then our
lives and how we live shouldbalance that out.
That he gets what he's worthyof the fullness of our lives.
Why we are not our own.

(01:00:13):
We were bought with a price.
Therefore, right we're toglorify God.
He died for all that.
Those who live should live nolonger for themselves but for
him, who died for them and roseagain.
He paid the highest price everpaid for anything ever purchased
in the history of the universeto make us his and man.
That's tragic that he doesn'treceive our all.

(01:00:34):
Let me finish with this quote byRandy Smith.
He said Christians should bethe most diligent people on the
planet.
Sadly, this is often not thecase, as we are outspent,
out-thought and out-performed,oftentimes by the very opponents
of the gospel.
Is there any cause greater thanfighting for the eternal
salvation of souls?
Is there any book more accurateand relevant and thrilling than

(01:00:56):
the inspired word of God?
Is there any power greater thanthe Holy Spirit?
Is there any God who cancompare with our God?
Then, where is the diligence,the dedication, the
determination of his people?
And so I hope that we graspthat and that just lights us on
fire with zeal and passion forHim, because we're saved by

(01:01:18):
grace, through faith, not ofourselves, but we're called to
be zealous for good works.
We're called to walk in thegood works prepared beforehand
for His glory.
Amen, Amen, Amen, friends.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
There you have it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
That's not supposed to happen at the end.
That's not supposed to happenat the end.
Don't forget, friends, the onebig, beautiful bill to get into
people's hands.
Do it with zeal, with passion,with excitement.
Living Waters, my evidence,study Bible.
Don't forget Living Waters TV,the podcast YouTube channel, all
at livingwaterscom, and friendspodcast at livingwaterscom,

(01:01:54):
with your lovely thoughts wejust may read your letter.
Thank you for joining us,friends.
We'll see you here next time onthe living waters podcast.
Oh, by the way, we had a bunchof friends in here with us today
.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Oh, we did that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Tonight, believe it or not, friends, is the big
premiere for season 11.
No, 10, season 10 we're aboutto film 11.
Season 10 of the Wave, themaster television program, and
we have friends that are herewith us, that came from distant
places, who are standing with usin all that we do and we're so
blessed to have you all.
Hey, let's give them a round ofapplause.
Yeah, welcome and thanks forbeing with us.

(01:02:28):
So, as as I was saying, we'llsee you here next time on the
Living Waters Podcast, whereMark Ray and Oscar have
absolutely no idea what you'redoing, what they're doing.