Ep. 354 - What Does “Retirement” Look Like for Christians?

Retirement, from a Christian perspective, is not an exit from purpose but a shift into a new season of service. Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar stress that retirement should be about stewarding time, talents, treasure, and testimony. Christians never take a vacation from their calling, and life continues to hold meaning in every stage. Many suffer after leaving their career because they’ve tied their identity to a profession. Still, believers are called to stay disciplined—remaining in the Word, sharing the gospel, and praying for wisdom and energy. Examples abound of retired believers who dedicate their lives to outreach, discipleship, and evangelism, proving that as long as one is alive, God is not finished with their work.

For younger believers, preparing financially for retirement is wise stewardship. Planning ahead isn’t about accumulating wealth but about equipping oneself to serve God and others without financial obstacles. Saving early and consistently allows Christians to use their later years to bless others through leadership, generosity, and active ministry. The guys note that tools such as 401(k) plans, employer matches, and Roth IRAs make it easy to start. Developing the discipline to save regularly is like strengthening a muscle—over time, it becomes second nature. Debt, especially high-interest debt, should be avoided whenever possible, and paying it off quickly frees believers to give and serve without financial bondage.

Ultimately, retirement should be approached with intentionality and purpose. The call is to earn as much as possible so one can give as much as possible, to live with open hands, and to invest in eternity. Believers are encouraged to plan their later years with the same focus they apply to their career goals—asking how they will spend their time advancing the Kingdom. This stage of life offers opportunities to serve in ways that might not have been possible before, such as investing in younger generations, mentoring others, and meeting needs within the community and the church.

Time, like money, belongs to God. It can be wasted, spent, or invested, and Christians are called to redeem it for what truly matters. The world is full of people in need—lonely individuals in hospitals, neighbors who have never heard the gospel, and children searching for role models. Believers should stay active in service, surrounded by others who speak truth into their lives. As long as there is breath, there is purpose. Retirement is not the end but a continuation of the race, run with urgency, faithfulness, and an eternal perspective.

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Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think someone who spends their life busy and then
suddenly they retire.
They're going to feelabsolutely useless, just cast on
a trash heap.
And that's tragic when you'vebeen laboring your whole life.
But now, if you're a Christian,you can be a laborer for the
Lord.
And I think the key to beingretired and keeping your brain
and not becoming depressed andfeeling useless is to be

(00:22):
disciplined.
Absolutely, just say I'm goingto be disciplined.
I'm going to start the day offwith prayer.
I'm going to read the Word,then I'm going to go to my
fishing spot each day and lookfor a sinner.
I'm going to get a dog, putsunglasses, go around the block.
I'm going to take gospel tracks, give them out.
I'm going to get a table and geta local Walmart and you can get
permission to do this,permission to do this.

(00:44):
Set up a table outside Walmartand just put free Christian
books on it that people can take, evangelistic books, get them
from Living in Waters, thescientific facts in the Bible,
and they're totally free, andyou just spend two hours in the
morning doing that.
You come back, have a snooze,say God, please give me more
energy, because that's theproblem when you get your 70s
Every day.
So, and I pray for wisdom andfor energy, because energy is
life and without that you'rejust going to roll over and die.
And so, if you're disciplinedand make sure you do this each

(01:07):
day, life's going to havemeaning because you're tapping
into the eternal Charlie Brown.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
Very good.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
My algebra teacher Oscar, are you making fun of me?

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Let me just say, gentlemen, that that was one of
the most clever insights intothe human mind ever created.
It's like how do you capture ina sound what our brains do
sometimes when people?

Speaker 1 (01:45):
people are talking right now literally right now
yeah I know it's frightening inmarriage when you're
concentrating on something andyour wife starts telling you
something that you don't thinkis that important, but to her it
is I have no problem with thatuntil it comes at the end with a
question.
That's when it's funny, that'swhen I panic.

(02:06):
You're accountable.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Oh, it's like oh, and so what do you think?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Are you good with that?

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, Next thing I know we bought like a jacuzzi or
something You're just going tobe like huh, could you rephrase
the question?

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yeah, I've done this.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
No, but remember, guys, when we used to Mark and
Ray, when we used to go to thecourthouse across the way and
preach, and I would use thatevery time I'd say I know that
some of you listening to thisright now, all your hearing is
wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah,and it was so cool to be able to
draw on that because I think itwould break the eyes and people
would think, yeah, but what isit, guys, seriously, with just
being able to actually tune out.
We're sitting there, someone istalking, it is going in our

(02:48):
ears and in our brain, but wecannot for the life of us.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, it's by choice.
We choose the subconsciousspeaking to us than the wife.
I'll tell you, sue is sopatient because I often say I'll
let it go for a while, like 30,40 seconds just talking and I
haven't heard a word.
It's wah, wah, wah, wah, wah,and I'll say what was that.
And she never says I've alreadytold you, you're not listening.

(03:14):
She just starts again Becauseshe's used to it, right?

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
I guess so, and I do have problems when someone comes
up and says I've got a questionfor you when I was two Story
time.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
What's funny is that those of us who know you, we
understand the panic that'shitting your heart and I can
almost feel like what you'regoing through.
I get anxious because I knowsomeone's trying to pour their
heart out to Ray and he's likedo you want a name?

Speaker 4 (03:39):
I've seen it before.
I've seen it.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I remember a guy Ray walking away one time and a guy
Ray walking away one time and aguy looked at me and he goes.
Is he okay, and what?

Speaker 3 (03:47):
did you say no, definitely not no, he's good,
he's fine.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
Ray looks like someone's trying to buckle in a
two year old when something likethat happens hang on.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Kirk said four year old.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Oh sorry, so, ray, do take us into your mind, please
it would be an empty, emptyexperience.
What happens in those moments?

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, rachel has the same problem.
She has it in her genes too.
She says the same thing.
She can feel glazed coming overher eyes.
You can't help it, just the wayyou are.
I guess it's not that I'm agenius and things are going on
and I'm creating in my mind.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
It's just selfish.
Yeah, that's it I'm creating inmy mind.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Because, you're selfish.
Yeah, that's it.
I think you've nailed it.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
You've discovered it.
All I care about is myself.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
You've got like cereal dancing in your head.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
You've got playing with Lacey, you've got.
That's true, yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
But I do, look, I do want to become a better listener
.
What's that?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Huh.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
What?
Huh?
Because it's sad that someone'spouring their heart out to you
and you're not listening.
And you're cleaning tassels onthe floor.
Oh, bringing back bad memories.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
I remember there was a time when I was pouring my
heart out to you.
As I look over at you, you lookup at the clock.
No, it's time to rewind.
I hit you up about that.
I sure think you're right.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I've had that.
When I'm witnessing to people,I see them glance at their watch
and I see you're not listening,are you?
You're looking at your watch.
You want to get away, but I'mtelling you I can find
everlasting life.
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I hear you often say you don't want to miss this.
Yeah, yeah, that's good.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
You learn over the years, don't you like to say the
things that capture people'sattention?
I'll do that.
When I'm preaching, I'll saynow, I'll pause and I say now,
listen closely to this.
And it really does.
It causes people to perk up.
Well, there's another way to doit.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
You just say I don't want anyone to listen to what
I'm going to say.
It's when I bring.
Lately I've been bringingpeople through the studio when
we're doing tours and I turn tothem and say I'd like you to
kick the camera over as you gopast it.
And they go what?
Because I say please be careful, these cameras are expensive,
so don't kick it.
No, they're not going to listen, because that's expected.
But if you say something thatsays the other way, it makes

(05:52):
them listen and be careful.
I often say to Sue, when she'sdriving, please drive
dangerously, because I say Idrive carefully.
She's.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
But, ray, the thing about you is you haven't learned
, because someday someone'sgoing to do it like the kid that
you told to sniff the bottom ofthe pool.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
I didn't think he would do it Exactly.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
You're going to think someone's not going to kick the
camera.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Ray, come and tell me dude.
I told my niece, told yourniece yeah, I was talking to my
niece.
Every Christmas we go with ournieces and our kids to go
Christmas light observing.
We walk down the streets, youknow, and there's those plastic.
What are those?
Candies?
Candy canes, the plastic candycanes.

(06:36):
And I look at her and I go, oh,you should lick it.
They taste really good.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
And she walks over and goes ah, my niece, You're
going to get the wrong personwho's?

Speaker 2 (06:46):
going to do it.
That's scratch and sniff howmany times have you done that to
people?

Speaker 3 (06:52):
But yeah, whatever, I don't care.
Okay, time for a cool, classycomment.
This is from Nathan, excuse meOscar's yawning.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
He wasn't listening.
It wasn't.
Wah, wah, wah, it was it was acool classic comment.
How do we yawn?
That's all it was.
How do?

Speaker 3 (07:11):
we yawn.
What is a yawn, seriously?
What is a yawn I?

Speaker 1 (07:13):
would have liked to be near For the first yawn, when
Adam and Eve Are looking ateach other In the eye and then
Adam suddenly goes.
He says he said what are youtrying to swallow me or what get
away from me, you animal?
And the sneeze is where thefoes explain, where the face
explodes.
We take sneezing for grantedyes yes, but spoonerism, you

(07:38):
know gonna be careful.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
what drives me crazy?
What?
What was it?
It's the people.
It's the people that get likereally mad that you yawn as if,
though, you're disinterested.
It's not often that I'mdisinterested, I just start
yawning.
But seriously, why do people?
It's so rude to yawn.
I can't help it.
You've got to put your handover your mouth when you yawn.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, someone might fall in.
That was good, I'm seriouslygetting very yawning right now,
I'm so psychological.
We've lost our listeners.
Oh, it's so psychological.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
All right, franza.
Cool classy comment.
This is from what are you doing, ray?

Speaker 2 (08:17):
You yawning, oh no, oh no, the camera crew's going
to see it, all right.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
This is from Nathan, underscore K89.
Subject line says great podcast.
I'm so thankful I heard aboutthis podcast while listening to
Todd Friel's podcast.
Oh, Todd mentioned it Freakishlytall Todd Wow, he must have
From Wretched Radio.
I looked it up, downloadedcountless episodes and I've been
listening while at work.
Wow, these guys areentertaining, encouraging,

(08:49):
knowledgeable and faith-filled.
I'm already taking notes,pausing when I can to remember
the impactful truth being shared.
Thank you, guys for thispodcast.
I love your banter and talkback and forth.
You all bring so much wisdomand biblical truth, backed with
life experiences.
It has greatly improved my life.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
Sorry, Easy, I wasn't listening.
Can you rephrase the comment?
Start again.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wah, wah, wah, wah wah.
Give me the synopsis.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, thank you, nathan Brother, that means so
much to us, and pass it on man,Thanks man.
Tell others about the podcast.
And now a radicallyrevolutionary resource.
This Now, a radicallyrevolutionary resource, this
podcast is brought to you by me.
Humbly Fight Like a man.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's a bold biblical battle plan for personal purity.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Hey, I haven't been mentioned in the book for ages
but, I, thought, hey, maybe it'stime for a plot.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
That's your book and it's wonderful.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
The paperback version is Fight Like Roseanne.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Oh no, not that again Jackie Chan holding a can of
spam.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
Everyone comes up to me now.
I see people that hear thepodcast and they're making up
names for my book.
So yeah, hey, it's been ablessing guys.
It's coming on a year sinceit's been released.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
Wow really.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
And it still continues to hit top spots in
sales.
I've been getting so manyemails from guys because at the
end of the book there's an emailaddress that tells people to
write in if they've beenimpacted.
So I've been getting tons ofemails of guys telling us their
lives have been changed and,yeah, it's been encouraging.
So, hey and listen, if you'veread the book and really were

(10:15):
impacted by it, go to Amazon andleave a comment there, because
that helps the algorithm and getthe T-shirt.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Give the what Get the T-shirt, the T and get the
t-shirt.
Give the what Get the t-shirt.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
The t-shirt yeah, it comes with a book.
Oh yeah, you should have one.
I know I got a t-shirt.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
I mean, I would wear a fight like a man t-shirt.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
You're going to get punched.
You're going to get punched,exactly, let's go.
You want to fight?
I was wearing that in that lastconversation.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
And also speaking of that, this has opened up doors
for you to also speak atdifferent events, right From
men's conferences to churches tomen's breakfasts and things of
that nature.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, I've done tons of and you love doing it.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
I love it.
So, if you're listening, ask EZto come to where you are and
keep him.
Keep him there please.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, and also, you know, recently I just preached
this message on a Sunday morningin connection with my book.
I use the life of Joseph,genesis 39, and how Joseph dealt
with temptation, and it wasreally well received.
So I may do that more.
If you have even a Sundaymorning you want me to come out,
let us know.
You can go to livingwaterscomand then speakers there's a tab
for speakers and then request methere.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
When you see someone yawn when you're preaching, do
you point them out?

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Oh, I yell and yell.
Wait Ray, what do you do toyour wife when she's yawning
sometimes?
No, I've stopped.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
I stopped years ago after work Because a friend of
mine.
What would you do, murray Smith?
No, you can't help it.
When they yawn, you put yourfinger in their mouth.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
I do it to Kelly.
She hates it.
I used to Rachel, but I stoppedher.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Sue said please don't do that.
And that was huge for her.
But my friend Murray Smithstarted doing it to his wife and
she got really mad, do youstill?

Speaker 3 (11:48):
pull the sheets off when you get mad.
No, I stopped that.
She asked if I stopped that.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Because that's an incredible law of nature, or
something in there?

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Do you still pull up your pajama pants up to your
chest?
Yes, actually, this is gettinga little personal, you still
sleep in a hole, still sleep ina hole.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Who would sleep in a hole?
That flicking of the covers isincredible.
What was the flicking of thecovers?
You get into bed and thenyou've got the covers over you,
over your wife, and you just golike that and a wave goes across
and pulls the covers off her,right across off the bed, and so
she's got no covers and you'vegot double covers.
It's a flick.
You would do that like everynight, right?

Speaker 3 (12:24):
yeah, couldn't help that department of annoyance.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, she was really good, though she only put up
with it for about 10 years everynight yeah, all right, friends,
don't forget.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Fight like a man bull biblical battle for personal
purity.
Don't forget the living watersmonk evidence study bible and
living waters tv, where youcould see what we're doing.
All living waters dot com.
And don't forget the podcastYouTube channel.
Oh, living Waters Knock up.
Yeah, oscar got sad for amoment there.
I was shocked.
Yeah, I thought I was out of ajob.
All right, friends.
Today, what does retirementlook like for the Christian?

(12:58):
It doesn't Tell us Ray, whydoesn't?

Speaker 1 (13:01):
it.
There shouldn't be any thoughtof retirement for the Christian.
For the world, yeah, retire,just go over and die somewhere,
walk your dog around the block.
But for the Christian, you cango full time for the Lord now.
All your life you've beenrestricted by work.
Work's a curse God gave work asa curse Makes you sweat.
You can be free of that and nowyou can serve the Lord with all

(13:21):
your heart, full time, and allyou do is set up a, get a diary,
and when you go witnessing withyour dog wearing sunglasses
going around the block, get theperson's name and write down
what you said to them and praywith them or pray for them
afterwards.
There's things you can do whereretirement won't come near you,
and it shouldn't.
What a stupid word.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Retirement.
I'm really curious to Ray wouldyou Retire Mint?
I'm really curious to know.
Would you rather be?
Would you rather be Wait for it, pushed off a cliff like a high
cliff, like you're going to die, or be placed in that white
room with nothing but whitewalls, no doors, windows, tied

(14:01):
to a chair wearing a white,straight jacket.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
No internet.
I would not want to be pushedoff a cliff because I'd jump.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
You'd jump before shaking that room.
That's how much he hates thecolor white.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
No, I'm terrified of doing nothing.
I think it's a horrible thingto just vegetate.
I really want to test that withyou, though, right?
Yeah, well, listening to you, Iget near it.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, I don't know if I've met anyone who loathes the
thought of retirement more thanyou.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, no, I hate it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Okay Now, oscar, is there a place for a Christian to
retire?

Speaker 1 (14:43):
No, before he dealt with us.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Not, but not really retire.
So maybe we can break down thedifference in perspective on
what the world's talking aboutfor retirement.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Well, what you're talking about is not retirement,
it's just tirement.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah, because we don't want to do it again.
No, yeah, because we've nevertired in the first place.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
You can't retire unless you're tired.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think what you're getting at here is
the retiring from vocation isone thing, which is moving into
a new season of life.
And to clarify what Ray meantearlier, I know he meant this
work is a gift from the Lord tous.
We see Adam work in the garden.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
After the fall After the fall.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
After the fall, it becomes cursed, right.
So Adam had God glorifying work.
We are made to make in the sameway that our maker makes.
That's not a part of the curse.
Part of the curse is that then,attached to that is the
thistles and the thorns, and ifyou work in a vocation, that is
hard, that's a struggle.

(15:46):
You feel the thistle, you feelthe thorn.
One of the beautiful thingsabout retiring from your
vocation, though, if that is infact you, is now look at it as
you get to experience work withless of the thorn, with less of
the thistle, because now you'refree to work unto the Lord, not

(16:06):
just to provide for your familyand to check in on a nine to
five, but now you know the dayyou go home, after your
retirement party, it's like whatdo you have for me, oh Lord?
And I thought about it in fourdifferent ways.
Ultimately, retirement.
You get to steward fourdifferent things.
It's time for you to stewardyour time well, because you have
more time than ever.

(16:27):
It's time for you to stewardyour talent well.
God has gifted you, and youhave an opportunity to steward
that talent in a new way,because you're not being held
back from the responsibility ofyour nine to five.
You have an opportunity tosteward your treasure well.
In retirement age we have moreexcess income than we had
through all of our working years, and so you have an opportunity

(16:51):
to give, to steward thattreasure in an incredible way.
And you have an opportunity tosteward your testimony well.
You've gone through so manyseasons of life.
Why not invest that in to thenext generation?
And so when you have thatperspective, you retire from

(17:12):
your revocation.
But now you get to experiencework with less thorn and less
thistles because you work untothe Lord.
I love it.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Yeah, it's so do I.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oscar Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah, I think it's the misnomer that a Christian
can somehow take a vacation fromtheir calling.
Ultimately.
I mean, I think we have itbackwards right.
We look at work as a source ofsupply for our income.
We look at marriage as a sourceof supply for our relational
needs or our pleasure,companionship, whatever.
We look at school as a means toexpand our minds, rather than

(17:58):
looking at all of these thingsas mediums through which we can
love God and love people andfulfill the two greatest
commandments and the greatcommission.
And when you look at life thatway, then you don't get this
vision of lying on the beach andjust soaking in the rays all
the time.
What's wrong with rays?

Speaker 2 (18:18):
I like rays.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Right, you understand that life has meaning and
purpose for you in all cases.
So, mark, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well, oscar started off our last program talking
about we find ourselves in ourname and we associate our name.
Also, you had mentioned ouridentity with a profession, like
who are you?
And when somebody says like whoare you, or they want to get to

(18:50):
know you, they want to knowabout you, your family, and they
want to know about what you dofor a job, right, because this
is where we find our identity.
But now we have a problem.
Right, because we haveindividuals that are now
retiring at 65 years old, whohave found their identity in
their profession.
That's a good point.
And so so many people are dyingright after they retire because

(19:12):
perhaps I don't know, I'm nopsychologist but they found
their identity in theirprofession and now they're no
longer doing that profession andthey don't know what it's like
to live life now.
So what is a word, what do wesay to those people who, for you
know 60 years, have found theiridentity in their profession
and now they're just saying Idon't know what to do because I

(19:34):
worked, you know, eight to tenhours a day, six to seven days a
week, and what do you want meto do?
You want me to go collectseashells.
I mean, where do I go?
And I just I made that up, bythe way that's me collecting
seashells.
I mean, where do I go?

Speaker 3 (19:44):
And I made that up, by the way, that's me collecting
seashells.
Look, lord, here's my shellcollection, said Piper.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Good money and seashells.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Oh, I thought turtle, shells, seashells, seashells.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
I think someone who spends their life busy and then
suddenly they retire.
They're going to feelabsolutely useless, just cast on
a trash heap.
And that's tragic when you'vebeen laboring your whole life.
But now, if you're a Christian,you can be a laborer for the
Lord.
And I think the key to beingretired and keeping your brain
and not becoming depressed andfeeling useless is to be

(20:21):
disciplined.
Absolutely, just say I'm goingto be disciplined.
I'm going to start the day offwith prayer.
I'm going to read the Word,then I'm going to go to my
fishing spot each day and lookfor a sinner.
I'm going to get a dog, putsunglasses, go around the block.
I'm going to take gospel tracks, give them out.
I'm going to get a table andget a local Walmart and you can
get permission to do this.
Set up a table outside Walmartand just put free Christian

(20:42):
books on it that people can take, evangelistic books, get them
from Living in Waters, thescientific facts in the Bible,
and they're totally free.
And you just spend two hours inthe morning doing that.
You come back, have a snooze,say God, please give me more
energy, because that's theproblem when you get your 70s
Every day.
So and I pray for wisdom andfor energy, because energy is
life and without that you'rejust going to roll over and die.
And so if you're disciplinedand make sure you do this each

(21:08):
day, life's going to havemeaning, because you're tapping
into the eternal.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Yeah.
Go ahead Oscar.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
I was just going to say.
There's so many.
What's amazing is so many greatexamples.
I've got a friend.
You guys know him.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
You've got a friend.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
I do just one, but him and his wife.
They retired and now they spendthree, four days a week on
college campuses handing outgospel tracts.
And I mean they could bevacationing as a matter of fact
one time.
I invited them somewhere.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
I actually missed that I was reading a text.
What do they do?

Speaker 4 (21:40):
They spend their retirement, mike and Vivian,
they spend their retirementthree, four days a week just
preaching the gospel on collegecampuses, handing out gospel
tracts.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
When you say preaching, just sharing their
faith, that's exactly right,michael and Melissa, melissa,
what did I say Vivian?

Speaker 3 (21:56):
Viviana's our daughter, that's right, sorry.

Speaker 4 (21:58):
And Melissa, sorry, yeah.
And I mean they spend one time.
I invited them somewhere and itwas like, oh you know, we don't
wanna go because college is insession right now and we don't
wanna miss the opportunity tolove on these kids and share the
gospel with them.
This is how they're spendingtheir retirement.
I've got another friend, brian,like he retired from the police

(22:18):
department and him and his wife.
He says they are busier thanever at hospital beds, having
people over in their homes,investing in struggling
marriages.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
They're just spending those days so well doing the
Lord's work and they've gotsomething that youth haven't got
.
They've got experience, andwisdom they can pass on, so
they're not useless yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Mark go ahead.
Paul didn't coast into glory.
He saw it as a finish lineright.
He picked up the pace.
I often tell my kids and Iwrite it in almost every
birthday card to my kids pick upthe pace, right, I get it.
Life is, for a lot of us, amarathon, and slow and steady
wins the race.
But just pick up the pace.

(23:01):
Have you ever seen thedifference between somebody who
finishes first at a track meetand somebody finishes sixth?
Somebody finishes first.
There's always that lunge right.
The difference between first andsecond, you know first second
everybody knows your name.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
I love that Sunfield, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Somebody finishes sixth place, though it's almost
like they're coasting.
There's no urgency.
But for us Christians, right,we never retire from the Great
Commission.
We never retire from doing whatGod has called us to do.
For 2 Timothy 4-7, I havefought the good fight.
I have kept the faith right.

(23:42):
You will still be in the raceuntil you see His face.
You'll know when God is donewith you.
Right, you die, you're done.
So God is not done with you.
No matter what you've done, nomatter who's made your bed, no
matter what drug you've done, nomatter how many people's lives
you've wrecked, god's not donewith you.
And we know that he's not donewith you because you are still

(24:02):
alive and by virtue of the factthat you're still alive.
And by virtue of the fact thatyou're still alive means that
God still has a plan that hewants for you.
So get out of bed, go to bedwith purpose.
Lay out your clothes before yougo to bed so that you know
exactly what you're doing.
Lay out your schedule inadvance so you wake up in the
morning with a purpose.
Today I'm doing this, tomorrowI'm doing that.

(24:25):
And therefore, when you end updoing something like that,
you're going to find just thisexuberant joy that comes upon
you because you're doing whatthe Lord has you to do so you
can wake up in the morning withsatisfaction if you make
yourself wake up at 2am and dosome editing from 2am to 4am.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
When you wake up in the morning you don't just wake
up with purpose, you wake upwith satisfaction you did
something while you were asleep.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Oh yeah, I like that.
Yeah, sleep is so stupid I editat night in my bed, with the
wall between.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
Sue and me.
Oh, so you still have your wall?
No, I don't have a wall, don'tneed the wall.
Do you have a hole in the bedIn my?

Speaker 1 (24:57):
bed.
We used to have the wall, butthe wall's I can dully light on
the iPad.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
But seriously, imagine just hearing just a guy
on the street just randomly saythis I edit at night in the hole
in my bed, Except it soundslike this Yep, yep right,
actually, I

Speaker 1 (25:21):
do dictate and whisper, and it works into my
iPad In the night.
Yeah, in the night.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
You know, often when you hear I give her sleeping
pills.
Often, when you hear people whoretire, you'll hear some of them
say they'll go back to getanother job and they'll say what
I needed?
Something to do which isindicative of right.
We're designed to create, to do, to be productive productivity,
of right.

(25:50):
We're designed to create, to do, to be productive productivity.
But I'm baffled that theChristian would ever have to say
that we have so much to do.
And I think what ends uphappening is there's times when
I'm working from home orsomething I take a break, I'm
watching, and then daytimetelevision commercials come on
and I want to die.

(26:10):
It's like the thought of beingat home no job, no, nothing to
do you're just sitting watchingdaytime television, soap operas
oh, and these commercials comeon, these infomercials that are
just like it.
Seriously, to me it's almost asbad as being at a baseball game
.
I, I just want to die.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
Okay, but General Hospital is really well you know
what's funny.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
As a kid I used to watch.
General Hospital I come homefrom school, my mom and grandma
and aunt.
They're sitting around watchingGeneral Hospital, so I got into
it.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Guys, don't go to the commercials.
I think we should do a podcastFive Things I Hate.
I think we should do a podcastFive Things I Hate.
And there are five things I youdon't use the word hate.
Some people hate it when youuse the word hate, but
biblically that's one of thefive.
You can use the word hate,because God uses it in Scripture
, but there's certain thingsthat we hate all of us and I
think we should do a podcasttalking about what we hate.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Easy, you really hate baseball that much.
Have you ever seen the savannah?

Speaker 3 (27:04):
bananas games.
Now look, I've gone to somegames with some friends.
Save it, excuse me, no, what?
Save it when we do the programno, I say it now, I do it right
now, get it done, no look I'vegone to some baseball games.
Where they're, they're um, youknow, they're the boxes, the
sweets, where you have food, youeat, you hang out fellowship

(27:24):
that's fine for the rich whenI'm sitting in the stadium and
it's baseball, which I'm sorry.
I know people get it.
It's the most boring game inthe universe.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Have you seen a Savannah Banana baseball game?

Speaker 3 (27:34):
I don't need to what is that like the Globetrotters
version of baseball?

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, it's great the umpire's dancing, the guys are
doing flips.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, bring it on, have these guys out there and,
and there's, there's a certainsound in the stadium.
It's like a white noise, it's Idon't know.
It's like this hum, it's an l,and it feels like it's gonna go
on forever and ever and ever.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
Amen.
Just like I'm, it's an l.
I will just say forever andever in no other sport.
Do you need people to stand upand stretch to make sure they
don't fall asleep?

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Amen, you hate baseball too, oscar.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yes, I'm with you.
It's just a little slow, butI've watched them play with
beach balls in the stand.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
Pass those balls to each other because there's
nothing else to do.
No, that's not baseball, butI'm saying that's what they do,
because they're bored.
No, oh, yeah right.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
Exactly, yeah, the wave, all that stuff comes from
baseball.
Yeah, yeah, but I'm just sayingand eating, eating.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
Eating.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
You know, Now look.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
Okay, world Series game.
Okay, it's, you know, the lastgame, like usually, and they
make these guys play likehundreds of games in a year 161?

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Boy.
I feel so miserable right now.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Combining everything being painted white at a
baseball game and you have toeat cilantro.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
I think $25 hot dogs and chips are really good.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
I like the eating part and talking, but that's it.
I'm not there for the game.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
It's very American, it's iconic.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Take me out to the Okay so let's get practical.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
We just lost half our audience.
By the way, I want to go in adirection.
Sounds like a song.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Yeah, I want to go in a direction that I think is
important.
It may surprise some and, oscar,I'd like you to actually speak
to this because, in a sense,this was your world with
investment and stuff like that,I think, especially for the
young people listening right now, and honestly my hope is that
this will change the trajectoryof some who have never thought

(29:35):
that way.
I was in circles as a newerbeliever where to talk about
saving for retirement was likecarnal, like oh, it's so worldly
, the Lord's coming back, or youdon't need to think, trust the
Lord, and so forth.
But I think it's extremelyspiritual to be wise and to plan

(29:56):
for the future so that you canbecome independent when that
time comes and you wind downyour career.
You're too old and you can't doyour specific job.
And now, as a believer, you cantransition to serving the Lord.
So talk to that, oscar, thewisdom of planning for your
retirement financially.

Speaker 4 (30:12):
Yeah, you know, what's funny is because I didn't
grow up in the church and Icame to a saving faith in my
twenties.
I was shocked to discover thatthat was a trend Like in certain
circles.
It was almost faux Paul to talkabout savings, which is you're
right.
I mean, to save is to be a goodsteward.
Ultimately, you're investingfor something.
You're not investing to getrich.

(30:33):
You're investing for theopportunity to have more freedom
with your time faster.
And I would just say this Imean, there's a lot of helpful
tools and resources on saving,but you're absolutely right.
My main thing here is startsaving as soon as humanly
possible, no matter how much,because it doesn't.

(30:54):
You don't need to ever make amillion dollars to become a
millionaire.
You just simply need to saveearly and save often, as in
every single time you get paid,you should save.
And you might stop and think,whoa, oscar wants me to be a
millionaire.
That sounds so carnal.
No, ultimately you become.
There's seasons of your life inwhich you're you know, you

(31:16):
think about it like this theLord calls us to be prophets,
priests and kings.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Oh prophet, I see what you're saying Prophet
financially, oh prophetfinancially.
F-i-t.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
It's the threefold office of Christ is a calling on
every single Christian.
You are a prophet whenever youspeak God's truths, whenever you
proclaim the gospel God'salready written truth from the
scriptures.
You're a priest anytime youlove and serve in the context of
your local church.
You come alongside and pray forone another.
Some of us don't get toexercise our kingly duties until

(31:49):
later in life.
The kingly duties is leadingand supporting financially.
Saving for retirement to becomea millionaire is simply your way
of setting yourself up to actout your kingly duty in that
second phase of your life.
Because the reality is is whenyou retire, you can be paid more

(32:10):
than you were paid when youwere working.
And why does that matter?
Because you get to be a stewardof that.
Now you have an excess inincome in which you can serve
the local church through bothwith your time and your talent,
and it's you know, the emphasisthat you're making is.
It's so easy to do.
Everyone thinks I'm not makingenough money to start saving.

(32:32):
That's hogwash.
If you're making money, youhave money to save period.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Okay, so get practical.
Then what would you recommendto the 18, 19, 20-year-old right
now, listening who's saying,okay, but how do I do that?
I mean just put money in thebank.
Or what's your advice on how tosave properly for the future?

Speaker 4 (32:49):
Yeah, very practically.
If you work in an organizationthat has a 401k or 403b, you
should look into it, becausemany organizations these days
will do matches.
That's free money, and so atthat point I would suggest
saving anywhere between 25 and35% of every single one of your
checking account.
That might sound like a hugesacrifice now, but it will pay

(33:11):
off in the future.
And what's amazing about theway savings works is you think
about it like this this is howeasy it is to save and
accumulate.
If you save $100 of tax-freemoney, you tell the bank I want
to take away $100 of what I makeand put it away in this tax fee
account.
But because it's saved tax-free, you actually save, let's say,

(33:33):
$135.
Because now, instead of payingthat in taxes, it goes right
into your savings account.
On top of that, if your companyor organization does anywhere
between a 1% and 3% match whichis pretty common, that's not
even that generous, very commonthen you're also saving that on
top of that.
So now you're saving $115, $120every single paycheck.

(33:54):
I'm using simple math here,right?
Then, on top of that, at an 8%accumulation every single year,
with compounding interest, thatmoney accelerates over time, and
so that's as simple as it is.
The first thing you do is go toyour organization and find out
if they have a 401k.
If they don't, you can stillopen up an IRA.

(34:15):
What's great about this is thatit takes away the discipline of
saving.
You save first rather thanspend first, right?
So once you get your paycheck,normally you have to decide now
I'm going to save my money.
That's a discipline.
You should do it either way.
But when you set it up throughyour organization, by the time
you get your paycheck thatmoney's already gone.

(34:38):
You don't even see it.
You've just taken thediscipline happens once when you
set it up and now it'sautomatic.
You never look at it again.
And now to me it's like a musclewhen you go to the gym and you
start lifting weights.
The more you lift, the moreweight you're able to lift,
right.
In that same way, when youstart by disciplining yourself

(34:59):
by saving 20%, after six monthsyou're going to go huh, I'm
doing pretty good, I'm going toraise it to 25%.
Or another way of looking at itis every time you get a pay,
raise, you increase the amountof money you're saving and
before you know it, you'remaxing out your 401k.
And that is the simplest way toaccelerate your retirement, not

(35:21):
so you can get rich and saveturtle shells.
That's the fastest way toretirement so that you could
steward that time and thosetreasures for the glory of.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
God.
So what's your credentials forgiving us this information?

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Who are you, Oscar?

Speaker 1 (35:36):
You're an ex-atheist Tell us that's right.

Speaker 4 (35:39):
I spent 10 years in finance and so I was licensed
Series 7, series 63, 63, all ofthe things, and it was a.
It was a lot of fun.
So I'm coming from a place ofjust I've been.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
I've seen it happen.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
And I'll tell you this too I grew up in a low
income family and I will.
I will retire.
Not that I ever see myselfactually retiring, but I'm in
route towards doing that, andnever because I made a million
dollars, but because I've beenfaithfully saving since I was a
teenager.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
So would you say to your kids, when they get of age,
to buy a used car or a brandnew car?

Speaker 4 (36:21):
Always used.
Yeah, yeah, I mean cars are.
In my opinion I'm starting togo on a rant here cars are the
fastest way to keep yourselfpoor Right.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
The second you drive it off the lot, you've lost
massive value.
Yeah, exactly right.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
So you're saying a used new car, not something like
20 years old that's going tocause you problems financially,
but something that's pretty good.

Speaker 4 (36:43):
Yeah, a 7 to 10-year year old car under 60,000 miles
you're gonna buy for 10 to$15,000.
And you're gonna keep thatuntil it goes to 280,000 miles.
You won't have a car paymentfor seven, eight, nine years.
The average American buys andsells their own car every three
years.
The average car payment is $600a month in America right now.

(37:04):
So for somebody that's like Idon't have the money to save
there, it is right there.
Buy a used car, hold onto ituntil it's in the grave and take
the money you would otherwisespend and prepare yourself for
retirement.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
And if it works, don't fix it.
A mechanic said that to me once.
He said I can hear a noise inmy motor.
He said don't worry about it.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Just if it's driving, keep it, yeah, keep going until
something happens.
Yeah, yeah, that's so good,oscar okay.
But then there are thoselistening right now who aren't
in a job where there's a 401k,talk about roth iras and what
people can do with that yeah,that's exactly right.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
Not not all companies will have a 401k for you.
Uh, a roth ira or an ira areboth simply they're your own
version of a 401k, and you caneither do that after you get
paid or you can still set thatup.
Set that up so that itautomatically comes out of your
checking account, but especiallyfor if you you know, if you're
self-employed, which many youngadults in America now are

(38:01):
self-employed they're doingconsultant work and every time
you get paid, you know this, youget paid and no taxes come out
of it and at the end of the year, you pay that giant lump sum of
taxes.
One of the best way to cut downon taxes is to pay yourself in
a savings account.
Basically, think about it likethis Would you rather pay the
government that money or wouldyou rather pay your future self

(38:24):
that money?

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah, my son-in-law, matthias, he's in wealth
management.
He just kind of did thispractice presentation on Rachel.
I mean was talking about that.
Like a lot of people don'trealize.
Like with taxes, right, I meanthrough different creative
retirement plans you can deferthat tax and, you know, then
benefit more from what's inthere at that time and it can

(38:48):
grow, and so there's so manydifferent creative things, but-.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
Let me say one other thing, if you don't mind, and I
showed this to one or both ofyour boys when we were talking
about this um, which is, there'sthis old study that we, we used
to do to show the power ofcompounding interest, cause
that's really where you makeyour money in return and savings
.
And the point is this is you asksomebody, would you what, what,
what would makes more sense toyou to save $ thousand dollars a

(39:15):
year from age 15 to 25 and thennever save a penny again?
Or, at the age 25, start savingseven thousand dollars a year
until the age 65, which is farmore time, that's, you know
whatever that is.
That's 50 years of saving seventhousand dollars a year.
And you would think, well, 50years of saving seven7,000 a
year.
And you would think, well, 50years of saving $7,000 a year

(39:37):
will make me more money.
But no, because of the power ofcompounding interest, saving
$7,000 a year from 15 to 25,you'd have something like it's
almost double the amount ofmoney that you would actually
have, and the reason why simplyis the power of compounding
interest.
The faster you start, thefaster it pays off.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yeah, oh, it's so good, yeah.
And, mark, at the end of theday, it's stewardship, right,
and that I've always said look,bottom line is, either you are
going to take care of yourselfand your family, or someone else
is going to have to take careof you and your family, whether
it's the government, whetherit's other family members, or
you end up in a destitute place,right?

(40:17):
So I'd love you to speak tothat, mark.
But the balance of that, though, of trusting the Lord and also
continuing to be generous, notgetting lopsided on that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, it was DL Moody , I believe, who said make as
much money as you can by all themeans you can and save as much
money as you can, all the whilegiving away as much money as you
can right.
It might have been Wesley.
It might have been Wesley, itdoesn't matter, just say
somebody who's dead and peoplemove on there is and I don't

(40:49):
even know what we're talkingabout anymore.
What was the question, sable?

Speaker 3 (40:53):
Just about wise stewardship that either we take
care of ourselves and ourfamilies, or someone else will,
and to balance that out withbeing generous as well and
trusting the Lord.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yeah, I used to have a thing that I used to do before
I had credit cards.
I would use cash for everythingand then the change that I
would have left over I would putthat inside my other pocket and
then I would accumulate allthat money and I would put that
into a missions fund that Iwould give away to missions or
put it into a different way tobe able to give away to people.
You know cash is king.

(41:25):
You know Dave Ramsey says thatwe want to take advantage of
paying off debt and you have theability to pay off debt almost
as fast as you got into debt.
When you begin to follow intothat snowball effect of throwing
that money into that thing andyou stop eating out, you know
life is quick.
We will leave money.
We can't take it with us.

(41:46):
Right, the old adage thatyou've never seen a U-Haul
followed behind a hearse A.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
U-Haul pulling a hearse A.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
U-Haul pulling a hearse.
No, a hearse pulling a U-Haul.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Yeah, it doesn't really matter.
Yeah, it doesn't matter ifthey're dead.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
TL Moody said that no , it's Wesley, it was Wesley
Wesley just put it in the old.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
You know you will leave money behind.
So we can either send it onahead up into the heavens or we
can just leave it behind forother people.
I like the idea of being ableto give anonymously and give
cheerfully.
God loves a hilarious giver.
I love to give.
I'm always looking for creativeways to give.

(42:27):
Ray has been a really greatrole model in that.
I remember when I was insidethe cubicle and Ray says, can I
get you anything?
And I said chocolate shakeextra thick.
You know, just joking around,but I love it, you know.
That's why I was on the tip ofmy tongue.
Next thing, you know, like 15minutes later, here comes Ray
with a chocolate shake.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
You know half full because, he drank the other half
.
I love lobster tail.
I just, I love motorcycles,motorcycles, chaboli, chaboli,
uber.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
Eats comes.
Ct study said only one life toa soon be passed.
Only what's done for Christwill last.
It was a poem in 1904.
By Spurgeon, by Spurgeon andWesley.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
You guys are crazy.
I can't even concentrate whenyou guys are talking.
We are listening, Mark.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Whoa, whoa listening, mark.
Well, he gave up his fame andfortune to become a missionary
right In.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
China and Africa.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Who's that CT Stubbs?

Speaker 1 (43:23):
He was a cricket player.
Yeah, a professional cricketplayer.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, and he served until he died when he was 70 in
the Congo.
That's real.
That's what retirement lookslike.
Retirement looks like you'reserving until you die.
There's no giving up on theGreat Commission.
There's no giving up on life.
There's no throwing in thetowel.
There's no saying I no longerhave anything on my bucket list.
So, lord, now you can take me.
No, as long as you have alittle bit of energy, you go

(43:47):
until you die.
That is the point and thepurpose of life to serve Christ,
to know Him and to make Himknown.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
The cross should be first on the bucket list.
Oh, I like that.
Did you come up with thatFright?
I don't like to say.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Yeah, Mark, that's so good.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
You weren't listening to remember.
Yeah, I had no idea what yousaid.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
But you know, I think when we've seen it done right
we're inspired.
When we've seen these dearsaints that had a plan the whole
time, I think what retirementlooks like, for a Christian too,
is intentionality.
You don't just kind of arrivethere and like, okay, let's
figure out what to do.
I mean, you should be planningahead and saying, when I get
there, here's what I'm literallylooking forward to doing.
And I've seen certain saints dothat where they'll move by the

(44:44):
church.
We have an elder at our church.
They just moved by the church.
They're heading into retirement.
Why?
So that they can be there readyto serve.
And there are others.
There's a dear brother namedPhil, at Kindred.
His wife passed away, heretired, but man, he's serving
in the radio ministry for ourchurch and he's involved and
he's there on Sunday morningsand you'll see him doing
different things and there's somuch to do for the Lord.

(45:06):
But you plan it out.
We plan for weddings, we planfor our careers, we plan for our
vacations.
We need to plan for retirement.
We use the word because it'swhat we have.
But the retirement years, whenyou reach that stage, when
you're no longer, maybe in yournormal occupation, what are you
going to be doing and then youbegin to approach that with

(45:30):
intentionality.
I love what John Piper said.
He said finishing life to theglory of Christ means using
whatever strength and eyesightand hearing and mobility and
resources we have left totreasure Christ and in every way
make him look like the treasurehe is.
Oh, you know you're saying, man,it's not over.

(45:52):
And it's crazy because you knowyou'll see people today saying
like, oh, the you know 60 is anew 50 or whatever.
It keeps moving back and backand back.
You know, but their point inthat is that now I could hoard
up more.
You guys remember thatillustration with the rope.
Yes, you have a rope, imagineit goes infinitely.

(46:14):
But you have this one-footstrip that represents your life,
and then you have, at the tipof that, retirement, which is
about an inch right, and youhave people that are living
those 11 inches for the purposeof really living it up in that

(46:37):
one inch, and that theforgetting.
Yet behind that one foot thatrepresents our lives is an
infinite rope that representseternity.
So instead of looking thatdirection and saying I want to
invest all of this for that,we're throwing our all into that
so we can live in that one inchwhen we're old and can hardly
do anything anyway, so vain.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
It certainly is.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Yeah, On stewardship, you reminded me to go back to
that.
You know stewarding ourfinances well, whether it's now
or in retirement.
I think the idea of stewardshipis just so important.
And we have, you know, we're anonprofit.
We have friends in the ministrywho partner with us and I have,
you know we're a nonprofit.
We have friends in the ministrywho partner with us and I love
when I call them and thank them.

(47:20):
Some of them will just be likeman, it's, I'm just a steward,
it's not even my money, I'm justit's, I'm like passing it
through, this is his money, Likethey, and you really sense that
they really believe they'rejust simply stewards obeying the
lord who's you know, the giftand giver of all things.
And it reminds me of I thinkI've shared with you guys this
one time uh, uh, was taking mykids through in and out and I

(47:44):
didn't get fries and I was likehey, can I have a fry?
And one of my kids at a reallyyoung age like, oh, dad, that's
my fries 17 and I go I go and Igo.
I am the giver and taker awayof fries.
I can give you bags of fries, orI can give you no fry at all,
and all I want from you is onefry, truly because he is the

(48:09):
giver and taker away of allthings.
We are simply stewards, andwhen we act as stewards,
ultimately we're giving awaysomething that didn't even
belong to us.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Familiarity breeds contempt is such a powerful
saying.
I got a taste of what you weretalking about with your child
when I was five.
My mom always had dinner readyat five o'clock every night.
One day it was five past fiveand I was angry.
I was seriously angry as alittle kid.
I thought, where is my dinner onmy table?

(48:40):
And a familiarity breedscontempt.
Oscar, what do you think ofdebt?
When we came from New Zealandto America, we couldn't believe
how debt was a way of life.
Credit card debt.
Going to school you get intodebt universities.
What are your thoughts on debt?

Speaker 4 (48:54):
It's a dangerous thing.
I mean, for most people weabuse debt in a terrible way.
I don't remember the numbersnow because I'm not up to speed
on it, but I mean back in theday I think the average person
was carrying like tens ofthousands of dollars of credit
card debt.
I think there's good debt andthere's bad debt, but for most

(49:15):
Americans there's just simplybad debt period.
I would say, avoid it.
I think the only contingencieson that is, you know, if you
have an incredibly low interestrate of 1% to 3%, you can make
more.
It's called arbitrage.
You can make more than youactually spend in your debt.
But that's very rare.
For the most part, when we'retalking about debt, we're

(49:36):
talking about high interest ratedebt and I would say avoid it
at all cost.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
Send your financial questions too.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Yeah, I agree, I mean as much as you can avoid debt
because, yeah, it puts you in acertain position, but when
you're free man free, um manit's, it's liberating.
You know, to own no mananything.
I, like you said, sometimesthere are circumstances that
that necessitate it or that it'swise to do it because you, you,
you have certain securities,you know, uh, and reasons for it
, like, for example, buying ahome, um, you, you often need to

(50:12):
go into debt to buy a home, butyou have something that's
appreciating, you have to livesomewhere, you have to pay, so,
instead of giving it to rent andit's gone forever, you're
gaining it back through thatinvestment.
So there's things like that, Ithink that are sometimes some
people need to go into debt toget a car because they
definitely don't.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
But they need that car to go to work and that'll
help them earn income, but youhave to be wise.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
How do you do it?
How much do you take on?
Do you go out and get a 70, 80,$90,000 brand new car that you
may not need and get yourself inthat position?
On that note, this is anotherthing, other than buying new
cars.
That that is always such abummer to me is that when you go
buy a home, here's what's goingto happen there.
You're going to go to a realestate agent and they're going
to say how much can you afford?
And you're going to say I don'tknow.
And they're going to say go toa loan officer.
And the loan officer is goingto pull credit and they're going
to say the maximum house youcan afford is $800,000.
And you're going to think, okay, $800,000 is my buying power.

(51:06):
Why would you maximize it?
See that the loan officer andthe real estate agent wants you
to max out.
The bank is saying this is themost tolerated risk we can have.
And we think to ourselves okay,800, but why not 810?
See, we are constantly thinkingthat the bank and the loan
officer and the realtor, theyall want you to buy the most

(51:27):
expensive house possible.
But just because you can buy amaxed out house doesn't mean you
should.
I remember when we bought ourfirst home, they gave us a
number and they were like we'llstart my real estate.
He was like, all right, that'swhat we're going to start
shopping for and I was like, no,we're not.
We went 30% less than thatnumber because I didn't want to
max.

(51:48):
What's the obsession with max?
What's the most I can afford?
Why do we think that way?
It's such an American way ofthinking about buying a house
and it's dangerous.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
And now you live in Compton.
That's right, yeah, in.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
Watts.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
Yeah, and look, you know Our apologies to Compton.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
It's a matter.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
We talked about stewardship in terms of money.
Right, god owns our money.
God owns our time too, and youhave to understand that.
You have to look at your timeand say what am I doing with it?
The Christian who loves theLord, when he thinks of
retirement, says Lord, how can Iredeem that time?
And that's biblical right Seethen Ephesians 5, 15 to 16, that

(52:27):
you walk circumspectly, not asfools, but as wise.
Redeeming the time right, thatmeans buy it up, take it and
redeem it so that you can thenuse it for what really matters,
and I think that's what we needto be examining.
How can I, in those years whenI have a lot of time I have a
brother now who's done workingand he's like man I've been

(52:49):
reading the Word.
I just listened to Romans onaudio and I just read this book
and I said man, you have thegreatest gift imaginable you
have time.
You can use it for the Lord.
You could just sit aroundbasically rotting.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
I remember when Michael Jordan retired and he
was at during the Hall of Fameinduction, he had said I just
want it to be made known that Inever lost a game, I just ran
out of time.
Running out of time, right Timeis no respecter of people.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
Redeem it.
Yeah, and time?
You know like money?
It can either be wasted or itcan be invested or spent.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Oh, is that original?
The word spent is it just cameto me.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
But because that word is very close to spent, he gets
royalties because he just usedit.
Yeah, it's allowed.
Pay Ray, yeah.
And then you know I loveProverbs 16, 31.
The silver-haired head is acrown of glory.
No, Listen, if it is found inthe way of righteousness.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Oh, that's what's wrong.
Am I good?

Speaker 3 (54:00):
Because you don't think, oh, gray-haired, he's old
.
Whatever, he could be an oldfool, or he could be wise like
Ray.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
No offense man.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Every day gets up to pray and do it anyway.
So yeah, and then you knowProverbs 6, matthew 6, 19 to 20,
do not lay up for yourselvestreasures on earth where moth
and rust destroy and wherethieves break in and steal, but
lay up for yourselves treasuresin heaven where neither moth nor
rust destroys and where thievesdo not break in and steal.

(54:29):
I really do believe there isgoing to be that moment in
eternity when we stand beforethe Lord and there is going to
be some massive regret, as someof us will realize like I could
have invested more in eternityLike when the reality of
eternity hits and we realizedwhat we could have done for the
sake of eternity.
And we realized what we couldhave done for the sake of

(54:50):
eternity.
It's like remember Schindler'sList.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
We saw that just recently, Boy.
It was a cheerful film, theclean version right.
Yeah, it was the clean version.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
But remember when he just kept realizing because he
had sold different things Rightat the end, yeah, given money to
save Jewish people fromconcentration camps and they
were buying them.
They were basically buying themand then he started to look I
could have sold this.
He became consumed with what hecould have done in light of

(55:21):
this reward of saving humanbeings' lives, and so I think we
just that was the most movingpart of that movie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
And so we need to think in thatdirection, and I love what Paul
Washer said.
This modern idea that you hit acertain age and coast for the

(55:43):
rest of your life.
There's nothing biblical aboutthat.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
We spent two hours with Paul recently.
Oh, wasn't that great.
Yeah, it was a good time.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Seriously, we could have kept going.
What I loved about him was hisearnestness, his passion for the
Lord, yes, and yeah, it's sogood.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
I'm glad I was out of town for that.
Yeah, he wouldn't have met withus if we were there.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
Nancy Leigh DeMoss.
Some of the most effectiveministry in the world is being
done by faithful saints who havelived long enough to know what
really matters.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
That's good, I like that one.
Right, ray, absolutely.
Yeah, I've lived long enough.
Ray, you're 75.
Yep, how's that feel?
I don't know.
I still feel 19.
75.
Ridiculous, just can't breatheor run.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
Ray, I'm amazed by the energy you still have.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Energy in my legs.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
In fact, where were we?
Well, we were doing theinterview here in the studio
yesterday.
Is air conditioning on?
It's like it's a guarantee.
At some point you're going tosay that you run hot man, I run
normal.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
No, you're like a humming that you run hot man, I
run normal.
No, you're like a hummingbirdno.
I'm normal.
Everyone else is a bit weird.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Yeah, psalm 92, 13 and 14.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (56:59):
of that Isn't that great.
So let's close.
Those who are planted in thehouse of the Lord shall flourish
in the courts of our God.
They shall still bear fruit inold age, they shall be fresh and
flourishing and they shall notretire.
I added that last bit.
You added that part there.
Book of Editions.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
So, friends, I hope that you've been encouraged
today to recognize that, if youlive to that stage of life where
you're able to disconnect fromyour normal vocation, there is
so much to do.
People are sitting in hospitalbeds, lonely, dying.
There are kids that are indifferent institutions because

(57:46):
they don't have parents, thatneed big brothers and big
sisters.
There are lost people allaround your neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
And there are people coming out of Walmart and you
could have your table there withChristian books on it.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
Yeah, get a dog, get it some sunglasses, get a hole
in your beard.
It's the cover of his book manI'm like yeah, right, but who
said it?
Do something, do something, dosomething.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
That was.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Spurgeon, spurgeon.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Societies and unions are making constitutions.
Let us win soul.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Yeah, he was quoting Wesley.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Yes, wesley was quoting Stud.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Yeah, some people are alive, but they're not living
right.
I want to live until I die, andthe only way to do that, no
matter what age and stage thatyou're at.
It's kind of like what Oscar'ssaying When's the best time to
start saving money?
Now, no matter what age you are.
You start saving now, right?
I want to live until I die andI want to be surrounded with
people who can speak truth intomy life unfettered.

(58:47):
Is that right?
And you guys are like thatright?
And I want to encourage youguys out there, whoever's
listening, to be that personwhere you can speak inside of
other people's lives and allowthem to speak inside of your
life and live until you die, andby virtue of the fact that
you're still alive.
God's not done.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Amen, and biblically you should die so you can live.
Amen, and biblically you shoulddie so you can live.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
Ooh, I like that.
Die so that you can live.
Save so that you can give Hulk.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Hogan said that.
What's that?

Speaker 4 (59:18):
Hulk Hogan said that.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
He was quoting Wesley .

Speaker 3 (59:22):
I'll close with this quote from JI Packer we are
never too old to be useful inthe work of the Lord.
Old age brings wisdom that theyounger desperately need.
That's so good.
Yeah, there you have it,friends.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
He said that when he was a teenager.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Don't forget, friends , fight like a man.
A biblical battleground forpersonal purity.
The Living Waters of Mike, theEvidence Study Bible.
Living Waters TV podcastYouTube channel.
Check out all that good stuffat livingwaterscom YouTube
channel.
Check out all that good stuffat livingwaterscom.
Thank you for joining us,friends.
We'll see you here next time onthe Living Waters Podcast,
where we have no idea, even whenwe retire, what we're doing.