September 10, 2025 • 43 mins
We are heartbroken over the tragic news of Charlie Kirk’s passing. Tune in as we remember his life and share words of comfort during this difficult time. Please keep Charlie’s family in your prayers. What a comfort it is to know that Charlie boldly proclaimed Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection, often declaring, “Jesus saved my life, and the resurrection is the centerpiece of everything I believe.” Today, Charlie is with the Lord in glory. May this heartbreaking loss serve as a sobering reminder that death comes for us all, and that the gospel is our only hope in a lost and broken world.
Thanks for listening! If you’ve been helped by this podcast, we’d be grateful if you’d consider subscribing, sharing, and leaving us a comment and 5-star rating!
Visit the Living Waters website to learn more and to access helpful resources!
You can find helpful counseling resources at biblicalcounseling.com.
Check out The Evidence Study Bible and the Basic Training Course.
You can connect with us at podcast@livingwaters.com. We're thankful for your input!
Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A few minutes ago, mark, oscar Ray and myself
walked into the studio and, aswe were walking in, oscar asked
me how I'm doing and the onlyword that came to mind at the
moment was gutted, absolutelygutted, and I know that those of
you watching right now who'veheard about what happened to our
(00:23):
brother, charlie Kirk, canrelate to that word and many
more words like shocked andheartbroken and disgusted and in
utter disbelief.
I was in the studio hererecording a live master class
(00:46):
for some of the people that arepart of our ministry and follow
our ministry, and Mark and Oscarwalk in, they sit down.
I'm still recording.
I had no idea what was going on.
I finish up about a minute laterand I get the news and we just
wanted to get together here inthis room and be there for you,
(01:09):
as we're there for each otherright now.
We're all walking around theoffice, kind of in a cloud, in
total disbelief that this hashappened, that Charlie Kirk, 31
years old, on a college campusin the United States of America,
proclaiming truth, standing upfor righteousness, and in a
(01:29):
split second he's shot andkilled.
And so we want to be there foryou as our friends who have
followed the ministry, those ofyou that are struggling right
now, trying to figure this outand ultimately talk about what
do we do as believers, asfollowers of Christ, as
ambassadors of the Lord in thisworld, and so, guys, I'd love to
(01:49):
hear how you're processing thisand how we can give hope to our
friends as we try to hang on tohope in the Lord as well.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, in fact, I had received a text from a family
member who said hey, mark, I'mcrying so hard I had to leave
work.
I'm so devastated overCharlie's death.
Why would God let this happen?
I don't understand.
Please help me to understand.
He was doing such a goodkingdom work and he was making
(02:22):
such an impact.
Why, why, why?
I don't understand.
And I think that her questionresonates, with so many people,
31 years old, young, doing whathe can do to make the message
known.
We had just texted back andforth five days ago.
(02:43):
He just agreed to come on ourpodcast and you know, I'm just
beside myself in shock overeverything.
And I told my family member.
I said listen, when we comeacross something we don't
understand, we always have tofall back on that which we do
understand.
And what is it that weunderstand?
(03:03):
We understand that God fallback on that which we do
understand.
And what is it that weunderstand?
We understand that God is notpacing back and forth.
Right now.
There's no sweat on God's brow,he's not worried, he's good,
he's glorious.
All of our days were writtenbefore there was one of them,
and though we were caught offguard, god was not caught off
(03:28):
guard, and I think that it woulddo us well.
Instead of raising our fists toGod, we would raise holy hands
to God and we would echo thewords of Job Though he slay me,
I will trust in him.
And it was a life that wasspent well.
(03:55):
I've often said to my kids youknow, I don't want you to live
necessarily a long life, but awell life, right, a life well
spent.
So many people have died atyoung ages.
Think of, like David Brainerddying at the age of 29.
And so many others.
You know missionaries dyingreally young.
And we want to go why?
And we say, well, because theywalked in the work which God
prepared beforehand.
(04:15):
And that's quite simply thatthis is the scriptural answer,
right, that there was a work forthem to do and they walked in
that work and God then tookthose people home, and in this
case, took Charlie home.
God was not busy handling theorbit of planets, and then he
(04:36):
was caught off guard and he saidoh no, we forgot about Charlie.
God is sovereign, which meanshe doesn't need our advice.
He doesn't need our advice, hedoesn't need our counsel.
He doesn't he.
He didn't.
He didn't wake up this morningand, as one person put it, has
it ever occurred to you thatnothing has ever occurred to God
right, that that God is stillon his throne and there's gonna
(05:01):
come a day when death is gonnacome knocking for each and every
one of us.
So what does this do and whatshould this do?
Well, what this should do isthis should stamp eternity on
our eyelids, because there's alot of video of Charlie's
throwing hats out to the crowd.
He's smiling, he's takingpictures with people, he's
living his life and now he'sbefore the presence of God
(05:23):
because his race is over andhe's worshiping at the feet of
the King of kings and the Lordof lords.
And as difficult as it is forus to try to navigate through
what just took place and try tomake sense and put together, god
knows, and if we can throwthose two words together and
(05:46):
have it be enough for us thatGod knows, and knowing the
character of God and theattribute of God and all that
he's doing, and that he'sworking all things together for
our good and for his glory, thenit is enough to know that God
doesn't need our wisdom, hedoesn't need counsel.
If God needed counsel, youwould not know about it, but he
was due to speak here.
(06:08):
No, god's not worried aboutthat.
And so that baton has beenhanded off.
And let me say this younggeneration, you guys, are out
there, and let me say grab ahold of that baton and run with
it.
That's good, and not justpolitically, but with a
Christ-centric message, puttingChrist at the center of all that
(06:29):
we do, right, and whatever youdo do, all to the glory of God.
And I remember when I met himfor the first time and I handed
him Ray's book God has awonderful plan for your life.
And he asked me he said are youthe author?
And I said no, I'm not anauthor, I go, we have some
similar friends.
And I started naming them off.
And he asked me he said are youthe author?
And I said no, I I'm not anauthor.
I go, we have some uh similarfriends.
And I started naming them offand he goes oh, wow, neat.
And then I saw him about fiveminutes later and then he sent
(06:51):
me a dm through uh twitter or x,uh gave me his phone number and
he asked me to call him and andthen he went on his podcast and
he was talking about the book.
Uh, god has a wonderful planfor your, and he commended it
through the moon.
Yeah, and I stand in awebecause I know that even in the
(07:14):
midst of this, god does allthings well, amen.
So confusion, sure Doubt aboutGod?
No, no, there's no worry.
You know, with me there's nosecond guessing if God is on his
throne.
You know, we've walked with Godfor too long, you know for that
(07:34):
.
We know that God is on histhrone.
Where do I go from here?
I think of the saying do thenext thing, do the next thing
from Jim Elliott's wife, whenJim Elliott had died.
(07:55):
As a missionary she read a poemand inside that poem it said do
the next thing and that nextthing.
What is it?
It's go brush your teeth, hey,you can go tuck your kid into
bed, you know, hey, uh, go goput more groceries inside the
house right now.
Go tell your loved one you lovethem.
(08:17):
Give mom a call you know, do thenext thing, do.
What is that next thing?
Do do what god has called youto do and you'll be walking in
the work which god has preparedbefore him.
And we can never forget, neverforget that we are God's poetry,
we are his poem, we are hispoema, that we are the
expression of his heart as hischild.
If you're a Christian, thetrophy of his grace on display.
(08:38):
And the truth is that some ofour numbers can be up tonight.
You know, we don't know.
Charlie was planning fortomorrow.
You look at his schedule.
He had a full schedule.
And guess what?
He fulfilled his full schedule.
So a man plans his ways.
The Lord directs his steps.
But let it be known that Godhas ordained all of our days.
(09:01):
Before there was one of them.
And right now we gather as afamily, we put our hands on each
other's shoulders, we wrap ourarms around each other, we hold
each other a little bit tighter,we love on each other a little
bit more purely and we marchforward on our knees, because
this isn't a playground, it's abattleground.
And as a battleground, the armyof God marches forward on their
knees, bearing one another'sburdens and being there and
(09:24):
fulfilling the law of Christ.
Amen.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, mark, I love the way you put that.
We know the God, who knows Ourknowledge of him and the
knowledge that he not only knowsall things but does all things
well.
I'm always trying to like boilthings down to their bare
minimum, because you knowthere's so much potential for
(09:50):
complication and intricacy andconfusion in life.
Boil it down.
God knows I know him and inthat he also knows me.
He knows my frame that it'sbutt dust.
He knows my frailty as a person.
He knows my pain, my struggle,my confusion.
(10:10):
But just knowing that he knowsthat and knowing that he's
sovereign and knowing that heloves me as his child, helps me
to weather any storm.
And that doesn't mean we walkaround with a plastic smile and
just yippee a.
It just means that we know thatall is well with our soul, yeah
, and that god is still on thethrone and that we can cling to
(10:34):
him, who is life eternal.
You know, yeah, yeah, you know,ray, I I really would like to
hear where, where you're at withthis and with this and what
this has already done in yourheart.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yeah, it's stirred me up.
When I heard he was coming onthe podcast, or contemplating
coming on the podcast, I beganwatching more of his videos.
I watched a lot and I rememberthinking I'm going to be so
intimidated, for a number ofreasons, if he shows up at the
ministry.
He was what?
Six foot seven, his intellectwas through the roof.
(11:10):
Every time I watched him Ithought how could he grab all
those words?
And yet the wonderful thing ishe loved the Lord, he was
unashamed of the gospel and thatthrilled me to hear him give
great arguments that were justso profound and so solidly based
on scripture.
So when I heard that he'd beenshot, that broke my heart.
(11:33):
But I wasn't surprised becausehe was so bold, so unafraid to
speak against racism and reverseracism and things like that.
He wasn't ashamed to bring itout.
And I remember just thismorning I sent you and ken ham
one of his videos and I saidcharlie kirk is awesome and I
(11:56):
was meaning he's courageous tobe able to speak up like that.
And so what it's done for me iswe were just talking yesterday
at our as we're having a meetingand I suggested I wanted to go
to 13 universities in southerncalifornia and do what charlie
kirk did, and this has made meresolute to do that.
(12:16):
I think of stephen.
They made great lamentationover him and then, further out,
done, if it's the same place.
But when Saul of Tarsus createdhavoc within the church and he
was killing Christians andtorturing them, they that were
scattered went everywherepreaching the word.
So when the winds of adversitycome upon us, they fan the flame
(12:40):
, and I've found that in thepast, when persecution comes um,
I just feel stirred by therighteous, righteous indignation
.
How dare the enemy take one ofour generals?
This is going to stir up thesoldiers of christ to do what we
, what we're supposed to do totake the gospel to every
creature.
So what would thrill me morethan anything is the christians
(13:00):
got that same resolve.
Read the book of acts andthought, man, I'm not going to
stop for anything.
This has stirred my heart to dowhat Charlie was trying to do,
but we're going to do it with anarmy.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, listen, I wouldn't be surprised if you
know that there is an army,righteous army, that rises up.
Right, and they live theirlives in such a bold way.
It makes the apostles in thebook of Acts look lukewarm,
right, that they call heaven andhell as a witness.
And I remember it was DL Moodywho drew a circle in the center
of his room, got inside thatcircle and said God, send a
(13:30):
revival, but start witheverybody inside the circle.
Right, if my people who arecalled by my name, right, if we
humble ourselves, if we repentof our wicked ways.
You know, and look at I am, I'mstirred up.
You know, and look at I am, I'mstirred up.
You know, and it's, it's not ashot of adrenaline that that's
(13:53):
gonna, that's gonna wear off,it's no, there's inventory that
takes place.
What, what needs to go, whatweight is on our backs?
We're trying to run a race.
That's good.
You know we're.
How do you?
How do you word it easy insideyour book?
It's like a tugboat, if youwould.
Instead, we're on a battleship.
How did you word that?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah well, we're acting like we're on a luxury
cruise ship heading for theshores of Bora Bora, when in
reality we're on a Higgins boatheading for the shores of
Normandy.
Yeah, and you know, ray, whatyou said.
And, oscar, I want you to jumpin here too.
I know you have a lot to share.
But what you said, ray,reminded me of Paul's words in
Philippians 1, where he said butI want you to know, brethren,
(14:32):
that the things which havehappened to me have turned out
for the furtherance of thegospel.
Amen.
And he goes on.
He talks about.
It's become evident to thewhole palace guard and to all
the rest of my change are inChrist, and most of the brethren
in the Lord, having heard aboutmy change, are much more bold
to speak the word, proclaim thegospel without fear.
So you think Paul's imprisonedand now the believers are being
(14:56):
emboldened to preach the gospel.
That got him in prison.
Talk about counterintuitive.
But, like you're saying, that'swhat these things do for us.
They make us say no, that causethat Charlie Kirk died for,
which is truth, and you're right, he would unashamedly speak of
Jesus, that gospel is worthdying for.
(15:20):
What did Paul say?
I don't count.
My life, dear to me.
I count all things but rubbish.
I count all things but loss forthe excellence of the knowledge
of Christ Jesus, my Lord, forwhom I've suffered the loss of
all things and count them asrubbish.
And so there is that effect,and I pray it has that.
And this is one of those thingswhere, again, we don't
understand.
But God in his sovereignty, canbe doing something marvelous
(15:43):
that is beyond us.
We would never have wanted thisto happen and it's not
something that we would ever inany way take delight in.
But God somehow takes whatSatan meant for evil and he uses
it for good, for his glory.
So that's what I'm hoping for.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
My first response when we saw that he had actually
passed away because youinformed me about the shot we
were processing, that we toldyou and then Taney Phoebe and I
went out to coffee for a meetingand we got the update that he
had passed away.
And one of my first responseswas I was just processing the
reality that a human beinglooked down the scope assuming
(16:25):
there was a scope the scope of abarrel of a rifle and on the
other side of that he saw animage bearer of God and he
decided to pull the trigger andit just made me think what is it
that would?
How could we do that?
Not we, how could somebody dothat?
(16:45):
You know, not we.
How could somebody do that?
And I just think so often whenwe talk about figures in the
news, like Charlie Kirk orothers, we see them on screens.
It's almost like we talk aboutthem like they're WWE people,
like they're caricatures in apolitical story, and we forget
that they're image bearers ofGod.
(17:06):
You know who knows that morningthis morning, yesterday morning
Charlie probably was had histwo kids, all both under two
years old, I think one of themdefinitely under a year old,
sitting on his lap.
I mean, when we see them on ourscreens, we forget that they
wake up in the morning and theymake breakfast for their
families.
These are human beings.
These are human beings.
What is that?
What is a human being?
(17:27):
Not a pig, not a bird.
It is an image bearer of God,and that's what makes that
action so horrific is that helooked down the barrel of that
scope and he marred the image ofGod by pulling that trigger.
That's what makes that sin.
He marred God, the image of God, and I love what you just said,
(17:52):
mark, and the other guys aswell, which is and if you're
just tuning in, man, this isjust this is just us live
processing, as friends.
We just got the news unscripted, live processing.
I love what you just said.
This kind of information, it canscare people into hiding.
It can make them afraid.
You know like we need to backoff.
(18:13):
Just yesterday, I saw that GenZ leads in new church attendance
.
Think about that.
Gen Z right now leads in newchurch attendance and I mean
just you look at the crowd thatwas there for Charlie Kirk and
(18:33):
it was primarily Gen Z, right?
In other words, like I, I don'twant anybody to go into hiding.
I, you know, I think often,like there are so many, there
are so many preachers that getup and like blame Gen Z,
complain about laziness,whatever it is that they say.
Here's the reality.
If you're listening and you'rea part of that generation, you
(18:54):
were made for the day and theday was made for you.
God made you for this day to bean instrument in his redeeming
hand, and he means to use you.
We talk often about how amazingthe Puritans were or how
awesome the reformers were, howamazing the, the uh, the
(19:16):
prophets of the old Testament orthe apostles were.
Here's the thing If God wantedprophets from the old Testament,
if you wanted apostles, if youwanted, if you wanted reformers
and if you wanted Puritans in2025, then that's who you would
have here.
But he doesn't.
He has you.
He has you here right now, inthis day.
You were made for the day andthe day was made for you, and so
(19:40):
, as we say in sports like nextman up, let's move forward with
the gospel.
What do we need now?
We know what we need.
We don't need politicalrevolution.
We don't need new policies.
We don't need betterpoliticians.
What we need is the gospel.
Every single time a life istaken, it's one step closer to
(20:01):
Jesus coming back.
The seconds are ticking and,yeah, the response is to
proclaim the gospel.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Amen.
You know, I was texting with mysiblings just a few days ago and
I sent them a video of CharlieKirk.
It was just so powerful becausethe guy was only 31 years old
right, he's younger by a numberof years, you know, from all of
us here today, by a number ofyears, you know from all of us
(20:34):
here today.
But he just had such a wisdomand a presence and a boldness
and a courage that was beyondhis years and the Lord had given
him favor and he gave him aplatform, you know, and he was
using it well and you canimagine, right, the price that
his family was paying.
I mean, they just paid theultimate price today, but they
were paying a lot through all ofthat.
You can imagine the attacks andthe threats and all of that.
(20:57):
But I was just so moved by thisvideo.
It was so profound andinsightful and winsome and wise,
and so I sent it to my siblings.
I have four siblings.
I sent it to all of them on ourgroup text thread and my sister,
neda, said I follow him, hespeaks my thoughts in a powerful
way.
(21:17):
And then she put in all caps myfavorite guy in the whole wide
world, he is brilliant.
And I said yeah, he's great.
She said a genius, I worry forhis safety.
People that speak truth are indanger.
(21:38):
How long ago was that?
This was just a few days ago.
And uh, and you know, I my textback was yeah, he is a genius.
I said he's got a good securityteam.
And you know again, lord, teachus to number our days.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Okay, now, listen right, he does have a good
security team.
When I saw him, when I met him,he had like eight or nine
security guards around him.
But he does, he did.
He had the best security teamin the world, because the angel
of the Lord encamps around thosewho fears him and sings songs
of deliverance.
That we are invincible.
Who said it?
We are invincible until ourtime is up.
(22:23):
I think it's George Orwell whosaid the further a society
drifts from the truth, the moreI'll hate those who proclaim it.
So there is a hatred towardsChristianity.
They hate us, of course.
Why?
Well, they hated Christ first,they hated him first.
Of course we're going to behated, and this more than
anything.
Listen, do your nine to five job, do it to the glory of God, but
(22:45):
rise up with your voice likethat of a trumpet and proclaim
the mysteries of the gospel.
Do proclaim the mysteries ofthe gospel.
Do not be ashamed of the gospel.
What are people doing?
Here's the decision.
Your decision is you either gocower inside of a corner, you
(23:05):
move to some state where youhave no neighbors, or you go
into the local square, or you godoor to door, or you go to the
university and you proclaimJesus Christ and him crucified.
That's what you do, that thoseare your marching orders.
He came to seek and save thatwhich is lost, and when the
marching orders change, wellthen you change.
(23:25):
Somebody once said you know,listen, if God calls me to go,
I'll go, but he's got to call meto go.
In the meantime, I'm going tostay.
Well, wait a minute.
God has called you to go, andwhat you need to say is I'm
willing to stay.
Should God call me to stay Inthe meantime, I'm going to go,
but how is he going to call youto stay when he's already told
you to go?
Or, as Jim Elliot said, why doyou need a voice when you have a
(23:47):
verse?
You have a verse to go.
It's not to come back, right?
Or, as Justin Peter said, ifyou want God to speak to you,
read his word.
If you want God to speak to youout loud, well then, read his
word out loud.
We're looking for this weirdesoteric, maybe this Gnostic
insight, information thatsomething has changed with God's
(24:10):
desire to seek the lost, and ithasn't.
So this is what needs to happen, right, that the blood of
Charlie Kirk, that it needs tobe the seed of the church, and
it needs to give us wind in oursails to go forward.
That's what we need to do, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Tanny.
Tanny just sent me an image ofI'm guessing a tweet or
something by Charlie Kirk fourdays ago and it says Jesus
defeated death so that you canlive.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Wow, oh man, you know I was thinking about his
security team and they wereamazing.
Those guys were, they were huge, they were and they were on it.
I remember you know you'd seepeople that try to get riled up
and stuff and they're like rightthere, you know, think of trump
, right he had.
I mean secret service who wouldbe more protected than a, at
(25:09):
that time, a former president,who was like the top
presidential candidate and whothen became president again, but
he was shot right.
It was just that split secondof divine intervention.
And again we wrestle with it.
Well, why not with Charlie Lord?
We don't know.
But I think what we need torecognize is we need to number
(25:31):
our days so that we can have aheart of wisdom, not so that we
can just say our I love you's.
Not just so that we can live inan upstanding way, without
regrets, so to speak, in the waywe arrange the affairs of our
lives, but so that our liveswould count for eternity, so
(25:52):
that we would be like Paul and,as he exhorted in Colossians,
set our mind on the things above, where Christ is, on the things
above, not on the things of theearth.
This life is a breath, it's avapor, right?
We've all heard the whole sayinglike who wakes up in the
morning and puts it on theircalendar, I'm gonna die today.
Or who plans their death date?
Right, that puts it on theircalendar I'm going to die today.
(26:14):
Or who plans their death date,right?
That's not how people live, andso we have to make our lives
count and ask ourselves what arewe doing for eternity?
Tis, but one life will soon bepassed.
Only what's done for Christwill last, and we have to
remember that.
And on that note, ray, I knowwe have and this is like
stirring us all up more thanever.
Right now.
We have a massive campaign thatwe're working on, and I just
(26:35):
want to say, friends, at theoutset, that this is not some
sort of plug for any financialgain for our ministry.
This is something we're doing100% for free and it ties in
exactly with what we're talkingabout today the gospel and souls
.
So, ray, why don't you sharewhat we're planning?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I'd like to share, but I've got something else in
my heart just before I do andit's rather strange and I hope
it doesn't ruin this thing.
But I don't like to talk aboutdreams that I had, because the
Bible says old men dream dreams.
Number one, number two weirdostalk about their dreams, but I
had a dream that was two secondslong and it horrified me beyond
(27:14):
words, woke me up in an instant.
Let me tell you what it was.
I don't like spiders.
I actually hate spiders.
I don't have a phobia, but Ispit.
Whenever I see a spider, I justwant to spit.
And one of your childrenconfided to a mom that she's
exactly the same and I thoughtthat's genetic.
This dream that was two secondslong that woke me up was I saw
(27:40):
this incredibly big spider, thesize of a small dog, and it ran
after me this is all in twoseconds Reached out one of its
legs and touched my flesh to apoint where, in that two-second
dream, I yelled out and thatwoke me.
Like that and some dreams youforget immediately.
But I haven't forgot this oneBecause, as Christians, if we
(28:02):
want the power in the church, weneed to sanctify ourselves and
there is a beast that wants toreach out and touch our flesh
because that's what the spiderdid.
It touched my flesh.
That's what the spider did.
It touched my flesh.
That's what made me yell.
It touched my right leg All intwo seconds.
And every time I go to thelocal college, twice a day I
feel that beast rise up and wantto touch my flesh because
(28:23):
there's so many girls dressedinappropriately, got out hunting
the beach.
Every time I'm driving, just asthere's the pier I'm driving up
there, it is again that beast.
And what I've got to say tomyself is that beast promises
pleasure, but it has a stingit's death.
Every man is drawn away by hisown lusts, and then lust, when
(28:43):
it's conceived, brings forth sin.
Sin, when it's finished, bringsforth death.
And so it really helped me.
This morning I was going to alocal college.
As I go in there, they areagain girls inappropriately
dressed and I just said tomyself spider.
And immediately it brought asobriety to mind.
So I hope that what's happenedto Charlie Kirk causes each of
(29:05):
us to put the fear of God in ourhearts.
Let it in and sanctify ourselvesand guard our eyes and guard
our hearts, because that's wherethe power comes from.
God wants a strong church.
So, like I love what you said,Izzy, we're giving away two
million of these tracts.
Paul McCartney is coming to theUS in the next six weeks.
(29:28):
For six weeks, end of thismonth, through the whole month
he's going to 15 cities in theUS, so there are literally
hundreds of thousands of Beatlesfans, not just older people but
young people.
One of the Beatles videos onYouTube has had over 500 million
views, so it's got it rightacross the culture.
So this is a little blow-up sowe can see what's going on.
(29:51):
Brad Snow did a wonderful joband it's got these little what
do you call them?
Easter eggs, easter eggs hiddenin them.
So Beatles fans are going toabsolutely love this.
It's going to be seen as amemorabilia.
They're going to snap them upquicker than grabbing hotcakes
on a cold day in Alaska.
So these are completely free.
(30:11):
Just go to livingwaterscomforward slash fab4.
Got it right.
I believe so, and they'recompletely free, and 2 million
of them, and we would love it ifwe got so bombarded that we
have to get another 2 millionprinted, because this is one
thing we can practically do,because we can say to you share
the gospel, knock on yourneighbor's door.
That's great, but here,literally, probably millions of
(30:35):
people could be reached with agospel message that's going to
resonate within their hearts sotake advantage of that.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, let me just say , friends, that this is not an
endorsement of the beat.
This is us taking an opportunitythat we see in front of us, of
all these people gathered andjust saying, look, is there a
way we can reach them with thegospel?
And so on the back of that billis the gospel, and so people
are going to take it asmemorabilia.
So please understand that thisisn't us saying the Beatles are
(31:01):
great and they were wonderfuland we endorse what they did and
stood for.
We understand their paganismand the history of all that.
This is to reach souls.
We do this on a lot ofoccasions when we don't agree
with the people that may be tiedto a track that we've produced.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
We've had Obama a million.
We've had Trump a millionPeople we don't totally agree
with.
But let me just say Paul in thebook of Acts, chapter 17, stood
up and quoted godlessidolatrous, perhaps adulterous,
fornicating greek poets.
Why did he do that?
Because it was a springboard tohis hero, something they
related to, and so that's ourprecedent.
(31:34):
In scripture he said by allmeans, reach some.
So this is a wonderful way toreach people with a message of
everlasting life yeah, you know,just this morning actually, I
was telling tanny about thisearlier today.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Uh, I was reading from my morning devotional.
I've been reading throughRevelation.
I was reading Revelation 4 andit prompted a question during my
workout afterwards which is areyou willing to suffer for
Christ?
So, revelation 4, the backdropis you get this vision of the
(32:07):
cherubs and the angelssurrounding God and they're
crying out to the Lord, they'resinging holy, holy, holy is the
Lord, god Almighty, who was andis and is to come.
And the commentary that I wasreading through it helped me
remember that this isn't just amoment.
This is actually ultimatereality.
(32:27):
What we see and experienceright now is a shadow of what's
really going on.
In many ways, the eternal storythat's happening, that's
actually happening for all ofeternity, is exactly that that
these angels, these cherubs,they would spend eternity
singing a song to God Holy, holy, holy is the Lord, god Almighty
(32:51):
, who was and is and is to come.
And as we talk about heavenhere on earth, we often talk
about I can't wait.
You know, confessionally, I'llalways like I can't wait to eat
as many breakfast burritos as Iwant and never get fat.
And we think like that's howgreat heaven's gonna be, and
maybe there's elements of truthto that.
But what Revelation 4 remindedof is that ultimately, that,
(33:12):
ultimately, heaven is about thatan eternal moment of glorifying
God in ultimate joy for all ofeternity, with all of creation,
all of saved creation.
And so I took that and I was inthe middle of my workout and I
asked myself that question am Iwilling to suffer?
And so I took that and I was inthe middle of my workout and I
asked myself that question am Iwilling to suffer?
And so the prompt in my mindcame to this is and imagine this
(33:33):
.
Imagine you're not a believerand one day you witness your
neighbor, the spouse, goes tojail for their faith, their kids
are murdered, and not only that, but like your entire city, the
neighborhood, the news,everybody is celebrating like
good riddance, get rid of thesevermin, like let's, let's get
(33:55):
rid of them.
You know that's a celebration,nobody's lamenting.
And you wake up the nextmorning and you're comfortable,
middle-class home and you're inyour comfortable, middle-class
pajamas and you walk outside andpass your comfortable,
middle-class car to get the youknow, to get your, your mail,
and a puffy eyed neighbor, thespouse leftover walks up to you
(34:17):
and says can I tell you aboutJesus?
Would you listen?
Would you listen?
Because I think in America, like, we're so used to Christianity
being comfortable and safe andacceptable, and for most of
human history, for most ofChristian history, it wasn't.
(34:39):
But especially in those first300 years, when it was
definitely not safe the birth ofthe early church it was not
safe to be a Christian, and yetthe church grew radically, went
from 500 to countless, and we'rethe recipients of that same
(35:01):
faith.
And so, in my mind, I thinkit's time to stop being American
Christians.
And so, in my mind, I thinkit's time to stop being American
Christians.
It's time to be Christians.
You know biblical, historicalChristians.
Like we need to be honest.
It's not safe to be a Christian, it's not.
But are you still willing tofollow Christ?
(35:21):
And you might think like, why?
Why would you do that?
The answer for me, I believe,is yes.
Yes, I would listen.
And the reason why I wouldlisten even if everything, if my
family was at stake, if I knewit would mean the end of my
children's life, if be separatedfrom my spouse, why would I
still listen?
Why would I say yes to being aChristian?
(35:43):
It's because ultimate realityis all of creation, is singing
to God holy, holy, holy is theLord, god Almighty, who was and
is and is to come.
What else is there to live for?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Amen, oscar.
You know we're talking aboutour brother Charlie, and how his
death was instant For some ofus right now, I believe, who are
alive.
In light of what may happenregarding our faith, we may be
(36:25):
put in a different predicament,where we're given an option to
deny Christ and to blaspheme hisname, or to stay true to him
unto death.
And I just have a challenge,you know, for all of us, because
you would be hard-pressed tofind someone who professes to be
(36:45):
a Christian, who would not say,if you ask them, would you die
for the name of Christ?
Who would say no, I mean that'sthe expected answer.
Of course I would die for myfaith.
I remember as a pagan kid Iwould talk about I would die for
my Catholicism.
That's how I felt.
(37:06):
We often say we would die formy Catholicism.
That's how I felt.
We often say we would die forthe Lord.
I remember when my daughterJulia was seven years old.
I was in bed sleep in themiddle of the night and all of a
sudden I was awakened by just aloud yell and I jump out of bed
.
I run down the hallway, runinto her room and I see Rachel
there in a panic.
I look on the bed.
Julia's lying there, her eyesrolled back in her head.
(37:28):
She's writhing on the bed, foamcoming out of her mouth.
I'm like what in the world?
She's seven years old and ourworld just turned upside down in
one moment.
So we called 911.
We're waiting, we're trying tohelp her.
They got there, thank God,quickly, and they come in and we
find out she was having aseizure.
They take her to the hospitaland they're running a battery of
(37:48):
tests.
She was unconscious.
I remember they had tubesconnected all over and I
remember sitting there just intears, looking at her through
blurred vision, and I remembersaying Lord, if she needed my
heart right now, I would dig myhand into my chest and rip it
(38:09):
out and give it to her.
If she needed my eyes, I'd ripthem out of their sockets and
give it to her.
If she needed every drop ofblood in my entire body, I would
drain my body dry to make surethat my daughter stays alive.
And as I was thinking that,another thought came into my
(38:30):
mind, and it was this easyyou're willing to die for the
sake of your daughter.
Are you willing to live in sucha way so as to further life in
her and friends?
That's the question before us.
Are we willing to live in sucha way that we want to further
(38:50):
life in others Before we saywe'll die for Christ?
How are we living for Christ,and especially as it relates to
the gospel?
This isn't about condemnation.
This is about encouragement tosay even if you struggle in
sharing the gospel, christsympathizes with your weaknesses
and he calls you to come boldlyto his throne of grace to
receive mercy and find grace tohelp in time of need.
(39:11):
So let's wake up.
Let's let this be used for thegood.
What happened to our dearbrother Charlie?
And to say we're going to pickup that banner, we're going to
keep running.
I mean, you heard Ray say he'sready to go to campuses.
This is what we need.
We need to rise up and say we'renot afraid of death, because we
know the prince of life and weunderstand that to live is
(39:35):
Christ and to die is gain.
But are we living for Christ orare we just trifling with the
trinkets of this world that meannothing?
Where's our devotional life?
Where's our prayer life?
Where's our commitment to theword?
Where's our love for our family?
Where's our desire to die toourself?
We need to wake up.
(39:56):
We can't just keep cruising.
We can't keep saying tomorrowwe might not have it.
And even if you haven't beenliving fully for the Lord and
you say now I will, and you dietomorrow, at least you died,
committed to live fully forChrist.
So, friends, it's time to wakeup and it's time to say no,
we're going to make this countfor the glory of God.
(40:17):
He's there to help.
Emotions will fade, we'll wakeup tomorrow.
Other things will distract us,but we have to commit now and we
have to recommit every singleday, because we are prone to
wander, we are prone to leavethe God we love.
But if we just come and say,lord, here I am, help me,
without you I can do nothing, hewill.
(40:39):
Let me just get that.
This is from Turning Point, usa.
It says it is with a heavyheart that we confirm that
Charles James Kirk has beenmurdered by a gunshot that took
place during Turning Point,usa's the American Comeback Tour
campus event at Utah ValleyUniversity on September 10th
(41:01):
2025.
May he be received into themerciful arms of our loving
savior, who suffered and diedfor Charlie.
We ask that everyone keep hisfamily and loved ones in your
prayers.
We ask that you please respecttheir privacy and dignity at
this time, and so we ask all ofyou to do that, to pray for
(41:22):
Charlie's family and to respecttheir privacy, but, beyond all
of that, to live in a way thatsays Charlie's savior was worth
dying for.
So, guys, you have anythingelse to add?
All right, we'll wrap it upthere.
God bless you, guys, and let'scontinue to hold our loved ones
(41:48):
close, hold the Lord closer andhold our lives looser for God's
glory.
A few minutes ago, mark, oscar Ray and myself
walked into the studio and, aswe were walking in, oscar asked
me how I'm doing and the onlyword that came to mind at the
moment was gutted, absolutelygutted, and I know that those of
you watching right now who'veheard about what happened to our
(00:23):
brother, charlie Kirk, canrelate to that word and many
more words like shocked andheartbroken and disgusted and in
utter disbelief.
I was in the studio hererecording a live master class
(00:46):
for some of the people that arepart of our ministry and follow
our ministry, and Mark and Oscarwalk in, they sit down.
I'm still recording.
I had no idea what was going on.
I finish up about a minute laterand I get the news and we just
wanted to get together here inthis room and be there for you,
(01:09):
as we're there for each otherright now.
We're all walking around theoffice, kind of in a cloud, in
total disbelief that this hashappened, that Charlie Kirk, 31
years old, on a college campusin the United States of America,
proclaiming truth, standing upfor righteousness, and in a
(01:29):
split second he's shot andkilled.
And so we want to be there foryou as our friends who have
followed the ministry, those ofyou that are struggling right
now, trying to figure this outand ultimately talk about what
do we do as believers, asfollowers of Christ, as
ambassadors of the Lord in thisworld, and so, guys, I'd love to
(01:49):
hear how you're processing thisand how we can give hope to our
friends as we try to hang on tohope in the Lord as well.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, in fact, I had received a text from a family
member who said hey, mark, I'mcrying so hard I had to leave
work.
I'm so devastated overCharlie's death.
Why would God let this happen?
I don't understand.
Please help me to understand.
He was doing such a goodkingdom work and he was making
(02:22):
such an impact.
Why, why, why?
I don't understand.
And I think that her questionresonates, with so many people,
31 years old, young, doing whathe can do to make the message
known.
We had just texted back andforth five days ago.
(02:43):
He just agreed to come on ourpodcast and you know, I'm just
beside myself in shock overeverything.
And I told my family member.
I said listen, when we comeacross something we don't
understand, we always have tofall back on that which we do
understand.
And what is it that weunderstand?
(03:03):
We understand that God fallback on that which we do
understand.
And what is it that weunderstand?
We understand that God is notpacing back and forth.
Right now.
There's no sweat on God's brow,he's not worried, he's good,
he's glorious.
All of our days were writtenbefore there was one of them,
and though we were caught offguard, god was not caught off
(03:28):
guard, and I think that it woulddo us well.
Instead of raising our fists toGod, we would raise holy hands
to God and we would echo thewords of Job Though he slay me,
I will trust in him.
And it was a life that wasspent well.
(03:55):
I've often said to my kids youknow, I don't want you to live
necessarily a long life, but awell life, right, a life well
spent.
So many people have died atyoung ages.
Think of, like David Brainerddying at the age of 29.
And so many others.
You know missionaries dyingreally young.
And we want to go why?
And we say, well, because theywalked in the work which God
prepared beforehand.
(04:15):
And that's quite simply thatthis is the scriptural answer,
right, that there was a work forthem to do and they walked in
that work and God then tookthose people home, and in this
case, took Charlie home.
God was not busy handling theorbit of planets, and then he
(04:36):
was caught off guard and he saidoh no, we forgot about Charlie.
God is sovereign, which meanshe doesn't need our advice.
He doesn't need our advice, hedoesn't need our counsel.
He doesn't he.
He didn't.
He didn't wake up this morningand, as one person put it, has
it ever occurred to you thatnothing has ever occurred to God
right, that that God is stillon his throne and there's gonna
(05:01):
come a day when death is gonnacome knocking for each and every
one of us.
So what does this do and whatshould this do?
Well, what this should do isthis should stamp eternity on
our eyelids, because there's alot of video of Charlie's
throwing hats out to the crowd.
He's smiling, he's takingpictures with people, he's
living his life and now he'sbefore the presence of God
(05:23):
because his race is over andhe's worshiping at the feet of
the King of kings and the Lordof lords.
And as difficult as it is forus to try to navigate through
what just took place and try tomake sense and put together, god
knows, and if we can throwthose two words together and
(05:46):
have it be enough for us thatGod knows, and knowing the
character of God and theattribute of God and all that
he's doing, and that he'sworking all things together for
our good and for his glory, thenit is enough to know that God
doesn't need our wisdom, hedoesn't need counsel.
If God needed counsel, youwould not know about it, but he
was due to speak here.
(06:08):
No, god's not worried aboutthat.
And so that baton has beenhanded off.
And let me say this younggeneration, you guys, are out
there, and let me say grab ahold of that baton and run with
it.
That's good, and not justpolitically, but with a
Christ-centric message, puttingChrist at the center of all that
(06:29):
we do, right, and whatever youdo do, all to the glory of God.
And I remember when I met himfor the first time and I handed
him Ray's book God has awonderful plan for your life.
And he asked me he said are youthe author?
And I said no, I'm not anauthor, I go, we have some
similar friends.
And I started naming them off.
And he asked me he said are youthe author?
And I said no, I I'm not anauthor.
I go, we have some uh similarfriends.
And I started naming them offand he goes oh, wow, neat.
And then I saw him about fiveminutes later and then he sent
(06:51):
me a dm through uh twitter or x,uh gave me his phone number and
he asked me to call him and andthen he went on his podcast and
he was talking about the book.
Uh, god has a wonderful planfor your, and he commended it
through the moon.
Yeah, and I stand in awebecause I know that even in the
(07:14):
midst of this, god does allthings well, amen.
So confusion, sure Doubt aboutGod?
No, no, there's no worry.
You know, with me there's nosecond guessing if God is on his
throne.
You know, we've walked with Godfor too long, you know for that
(07:34):
.
We know that God is on histhrone.
Where do I go from here?
I think of the saying do thenext thing, do the next thing
from Jim Elliott's wife, whenJim Elliott had died.
(07:55):
As a missionary she read a poemand inside that poem it said do
the next thing and that nextthing.
What is it?
It's go brush your teeth, hey,you can go tuck your kid into
bed, you know, hey, uh, go goput more groceries inside the
house right now.
Go tell your loved one you lovethem.
(08:17):
Give mom a call you know, do thenext thing, do.
What is that next thing?
Do do what god has called youto do and you'll be walking in
the work which god has preparedbefore him.
And we can never forget, neverforget that we are God's poetry,
we are his poem, we are hispoema, that we are the
expression of his heart as hischild.
If you're a Christian, thetrophy of his grace on display.
(08:38):
And the truth is that some ofour numbers can be up tonight.
You know, we don't know.
Charlie was planning fortomorrow.
You look at his schedule.
He had a full schedule.
And guess what?
He fulfilled his full schedule.
So a man plans his ways.
The Lord directs his steps.
But let it be known that Godhas ordained all of our days.
(09:01):
Before there was one of them.
And right now we gather as afamily, we put our hands on each
other's shoulders, we wrap ourarms around each other, we hold
each other a little bit tighter,we love on each other a little
bit more purely and we marchforward on our knees, because
this isn't a playground, it's abattleground.
And as a battleground, the armyof God marches forward on their
knees, bearing one another'sburdens and being there and
(09:24):
fulfilling the law of Christ.
Amen.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, mark, I love the way you put that.
We know the God, who knows Ourknowledge of him and the
knowledge that he not only knowsall things but does all things
well.
I'm always trying to like boilthings down to their bare
minimum, because you knowthere's so much potential for
(09:50):
complication and intricacy andconfusion in life.
Boil it down.
God knows I know him and inthat he also knows me.
He knows my frame that it'sbutt dust.
He knows my frailty as a person.
He knows my pain, my struggle,my confusion.
(10:10):
But just knowing that he knowsthat and knowing that he's
sovereign and knowing that heloves me as his child, helps me
to weather any storm.
And that doesn't mean we walkaround with a plastic smile and
just yippee a.
It just means that we know thatall is well with our soul, yeah
, and that god is still on thethrone and that we can cling to
(10:34):
him, who is life eternal.
You know, yeah, yeah, you know,ray, I I really would like to
hear where, where you're at withthis and with this and what
this has already done in yourheart.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yeah, it's stirred me up.
When I heard he was coming onthe podcast, or contemplating
coming on the podcast, I beganwatching more of his videos.
I watched a lot and I rememberthinking I'm going to be so
intimidated, for a number ofreasons, if he shows up at the
ministry.
He was what?
Six foot seven, his intellectwas through the roof.
(11:10):
Every time I watched him Ithought how could he grab all
those words?
And yet the wonderful thing ishe loved the Lord, he was
unashamed of the gospel and thatthrilled me to hear him give
great arguments that were justso profound and so solidly based
on scripture.
So when I heard that he'd beenshot, that broke my heart.
(11:33):
But I wasn't surprised becausehe was so bold, so unafraid to
speak against racism and reverseracism and things like that.
He wasn't ashamed to bring itout.
And I remember just thismorning I sent you and ken ham
one of his videos and I saidcharlie kirk is awesome and I
(11:56):
was meaning he's courageous tobe able to speak up like that.
And so what it's done for me iswe were just talking yesterday
at our as we're having a meetingand I suggested I wanted to go
to 13 universities in southerncalifornia and do what charlie
kirk did, and this has made meresolute to do that.
(12:16):
I think of stephen.
They made great lamentationover him and then, further out,
done, if it's the same place.
But when Saul of Tarsus createdhavoc within the church and he
was killing Christians andtorturing them, they that were
scattered went everywherepreaching the word.
So when the winds of adversitycome upon us, they fan the flame
(12:40):
, and I've found that in thepast, when persecution comes um,
I just feel stirred by therighteous, righteous indignation
.
How dare the enemy take one ofour generals?
This is going to stir up thesoldiers of christ to do what we
, what we're supposed to do totake the gospel to every
creature.
So what would thrill me morethan anything is the christians
(13:00):
got that same resolve.
Read the book of acts andthought, man, I'm not going to
stop for anything.
This has stirred my heart to dowhat Charlie was trying to do,
but we're going to do it with anarmy.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, listen, I wouldn't be surprised if you
know that there is an army,righteous army, that rises up.
Right, and they live theirlives in such a bold way.
It makes the apostles in thebook of Acts look lukewarm,
right, that they call heaven andhell as a witness.
And I remember it was DL Moodywho drew a circle in the center
of his room, got inside thatcircle and said God, send a
(13:30):
revival, but start witheverybody inside the circle.
Right, if my people who arecalled by my name, right, if we
humble ourselves, if we repentof our wicked ways.
You know, and look at I am, I'mstirred up.
You know, and look at I am, I'mstirred up.
You know, and it's, it's not ashot of adrenaline that that's
(13:53):
gonna, that's gonna wear off,it's no, there's inventory that
takes place.
What, what needs to go, whatweight is on our backs?
We're trying to run a race.
That's good.
You know we're.
How do you?
How do you word it easy insideyour book?
It's like a tugboat, if youwould.
Instead, we're on a battleship.
How did you word that?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah well, we're acting like we're on a luxury
cruise ship heading for theshores of Bora Bora, when in
reality we're on a Higgins boatheading for the shores of
Normandy.
Yeah, and you know, ray, whatyou said.
And, oscar, I want you to jumpin here too.
I know you have a lot to share.
But what you said, ray,reminded me of Paul's words in
Philippians 1, where he said butI want you to know, brethren,
(14:32):
that the things which havehappened to me have turned out
for the furtherance of thegospel.
Amen.
And he goes on.
He talks about.
It's become evident to thewhole palace guard and to all
the rest of my change are inChrist, and most of the brethren
in the Lord, having heard aboutmy change, are much more bold
to speak the word, proclaim thegospel without fear.
So you think Paul's imprisonedand now the believers are being
(14:56):
emboldened to preach the gospel.
That got him in prison.
Talk about counterintuitive.
But, like you're saying, that'swhat these things do for us.
They make us say no, that causethat Charlie Kirk died for,
which is truth, and you're right, he would unashamedly speak of
Jesus, that gospel is worthdying for.
(15:20):
What did Paul say?
I don't count.
My life, dear to me.
I count all things but rubbish.
I count all things but loss forthe excellence of the knowledge
of Christ Jesus, my Lord, forwhom I've suffered the loss of
all things and count them asrubbish.
And so there is that effect,and I pray it has that.
And this is one of those thingswhere, again, we don't
understand.
But God in his sovereignty, canbe doing something marvelous
(15:43):
that is beyond us.
We would never have wanted thisto happen and it's not
something that we would ever inany way take delight in.
But God somehow takes whatSatan meant for evil and he uses
it for good, for his glory.
So that's what I'm hoping for.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
My first response when we saw that he had actually
passed away because youinformed me about the shot we
were processing, that we toldyou and then Taney Phoebe and I
went out to coffee for a meetingand we got the update that he
had passed away.
And one of my first responseswas I was just processing the
reality that a human beinglooked down the scope assuming
(16:25):
there was a scope the scope of abarrel of a rifle and on the
other side of that he saw animage bearer of God and he
decided to pull the trigger andit just made me think what is it
that would?
How could we do that?
Not we, how could somebody dothat?
(16:45):
You know, not we.
How could somebody do that?
And I just think so often whenwe talk about figures in the
news, like Charlie Kirk orothers, we see them on screens.
It's almost like we talk aboutthem like they're WWE people,
like they're caricatures in apolitical story, and we forget
that they're image bearers ofGod.
(17:06):
You know who knows that morningthis morning, yesterday morning
Charlie probably was had histwo kids, all both under two
years old, I think one of themdefinitely under a year old,
sitting on his lap.
I mean, when we see them on ourscreens, we forget that they
wake up in the morning and theymake breakfast for their
families.
These are human beings.
These are human beings.
What is that?
What is a human being?
(17:27):
Not a pig, not a bird.
It is an image bearer of God,and that's what makes that
action so horrific is that helooked down the barrel of that
scope and he marred the image ofGod by pulling that trigger.
That's what makes that sin.
He marred God, the image of God, and I love what you just said,
(17:52):
mark, and the other guys aswell, which is and if you're
just tuning in, man, this isjust this is just us live
processing, as friends.
We just got the news unscripted, live processing.
I love what you just said.
This kind of information, it canscare people into hiding.
It can make them afraid.
You know like we need to backoff.
(18:13):
Just yesterday, I saw that GenZ leads in new church attendance
.
Think about that.
Gen Z right now leads in newchurch attendance and I mean
just you look at the crowd thatwas there for Charlie Kirk and
(18:33):
it was primarily Gen Z, right?
In other words, like I, I don'twant anybody to go into hiding.
I, you know, I think often,like there are so many, there
are so many preachers that getup and like blame Gen Z,
complain about laziness,whatever it is that they say.
Here's the reality.
If you're listening and you'rea part of that generation, you
(18:54):
were made for the day and theday was made for you.
God made you for this day to bean instrument in his redeeming
hand, and he means to use you.
We talk often about how amazingthe Puritans were or how
awesome the reformers were, howamazing the, the uh, the
(19:16):
prophets of the old Testament orthe apostles were.
Here's the thing If God wantedprophets from the old Testament,
if you wanted apostles, if youwanted, if you wanted reformers
and if you wanted Puritans in2025, then that's who you would
have here.
But he doesn't.
He has you.
He has you here right now, inthis day.
You were made for the day andthe day was made for you, and so
(19:40):
, as we say in sports like nextman up, let's move forward with
the gospel.
What do we need now?
We know what we need.
We don't need politicalrevolution.
We don't need new policies.
We don't need betterpoliticians.
What we need is the gospel.
Every single time a life istaken, it's one step closer to
(20:01):
Jesus coming back.
The seconds are ticking and,yeah, the response is to
proclaim the gospel.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Amen.
You know, I was texting with mysiblings just a few days ago and
I sent them a video of CharlieKirk.
It was just so powerful becausethe guy was only 31 years old
right, he's younger by a numberof years, you know, from all of
us here today, by a number ofyears, you know from all of us
(20:34):
here today.
But he just had such a wisdomand a presence and a boldness
and a courage that was beyondhis years and the Lord had given
him favor and he gave him aplatform, you know, and he was
using it well and you canimagine, right, the price that
his family was paying.
I mean, they just paid theultimate price today, but they
were paying a lot through all ofthat.
You can imagine the attacks andthe threats and all of that.
(20:57):
But I was just so moved by thisvideo.
It was so profound andinsightful and winsome and wise,
and so I sent it to my siblings.
I have four siblings.
I sent it to all of them on ourgroup text thread and my sister,
neda, said I follow him, hespeaks my thoughts in a powerful
way.
(21:17):
And then she put in all caps myfavorite guy in the whole wide
world, he is brilliant.
And I said yeah, he's great.
She said a genius, I worry forhis safety.
People that speak truth are indanger.
(21:38):
How long ago was that?
This was just a few days ago.
And uh, and you know, I my textback was yeah, he is a genius.
I said he's got a good securityteam.
And you know again, lord, teachus to number our days.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Okay, now, listen right, he does have a good
security team.
When I saw him, when I met him,he had like eight or nine
security guards around him.
But he does, he did.
He had the best security teamin the world, because the angel
of the Lord encamps around thosewho fears him and sings songs
of deliverance.
That we are invincible.
Who said it?
We are invincible until ourtime is up.
(22:23):
I think it's George Orwell whosaid the further a society
drifts from the truth, the moreI'll hate those who proclaim it.
So there is a hatred towardsChristianity.
They hate us, of course.
Why?
Well, they hated Christ first,they hated him first.
Of course we're going to behated, and this more than
anything.
Listen, do your nine to five job, do it to the glory of God, but
(22:45):
rise up with your voice likethat of a trumpet and proclaim
the mysteries of the gospel.
Do proclaim the mysteries ofthe gospel.
Do not be ashamed of the gospel.
What are people doing?
Here's the decision.
Your decision is you either gocower inside of a corner, you
(23:05):
move to some state where youhave no neighbors, or you go
into the local square, or you godoor to door, or you go to the
university and you proclaimJesus Christ and him crucified.
That's what you do, that thoseare your marching orders.
He came to seek and save thatwhich is lost, and when the
marching orders change, wellthen you change.
(23:25):
Somebody once said you know,listen, if God calls me to go,
I'll go, but he's got to call meto go.
In the meantime, I'm going tostay.
Well, wait a minute.
God has called you to go, andwhat you need to say is I'm
willing to stay.
Should God call me to stay Inthe meantime, I'm going to go,
but how is he going to call youto stay when he's already told
you to go?
Or, as Jim Elliot said, why doyou need a voice when you have a
(23:47):
verse?
You have a verse to go.
It's not to come back, right?
Or, as Justin Peter said, ifyou want God to speak to you,
read his word.
If you want God to speak to youout loud, well then, read his
word out loud.
We're looking for this weirdesoteric, maybe this Gnostic
insight, information thatsomething has changed with God's
(24:10):
desire to seek the lost, and ithasn't.
So this is what needs to happen, right, that the blood of
Charlie Kirk, that it needs tobe the seed of the church, and
it needs to give us wind in oursails to go forward.
That's what we need to do, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Tanny.
Tanny just sent me an image ofI'm guessing a tweet or
something by Charlie Kirk fourdays ago and it says Jesus
defeated death so that you canlive.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Wow, oh man, you know I was thinking about his
security team and they wereamazing.
Those guys were, they were huge, they were and they were on it.
I remember you know you'd seepeople that try to get riled up
and stuff and they're like rightthere, you know, think of trump
, right he had.
I mean secret service who wouldbe more protected than a, at
(25:09):
that time, a former president,who was like the top
presidential candidate and whothen became president again, but
he was shot right.
It was just that split secondof divine intervention.
And again we wrestle with it.
Well, why not with Charlie Lord?
We don't know.
But I think what we need torecognize is we need to number
(25:31):
our days so that we can have aheart of wisdom, not so that we
can just say our I love you's.
Not just so that we can live inan upstanding way, without
regrets, so to speak, in the waywe arrange the affairs of our
lives, but so that our liveswould count for eternity, so
(25:52):
that we would be like Paul and,as he exhorted in Colossians,
set our mind on the things above, where Christ is, on the things
above, not on the things of theearth.
This life is a breath, it's avapor, right?
We've all heard the whole sayinglike who wakes up in the
morning and puts it on theircalendar, I'm gonna die today.
Or who plans their death date?
Right, that puts it on theircalendar I'm going to die today.
(26:14):
Or who plans their death date,right?
That's not how people live, andso we have to make our lives
count and ask ourselves what arewe doing for eternity?
Tis, but one life will soon bepassed.
Only what's done for Christwill last, and we have to
remember that.
And on that note, ray, I knowwe have and this is like
stirring us all up more thanever.
Right now.
We have a massive campaign thatwe're working on, and I just
(26:35):
want to say, friends, at theoutset, that this is not some
sort of plug for any financialgain for our ministry.
This is something we're doing100% for free and it ties in
exactly with what we're talkingabout today the gospel and souls
.
So, ray, why don't you sharewhat we're planning?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I'd like to share, but I've got something else in
my heart just before I do andit's rather strange and I hope
it doesn't ruin this thing.
But I don't like to talk aboutdreams that I had, because the
Bible says old men dream dreams.
Number one, number two weirdostalk about their dreams, but I
had a dream that was two secondslong and it horrified me beyond
(27:14):
words, woke me up in an instant.
Let me tell you what it was.
I don't like spiders.
I actually hate spiders.
I don't have a phobia, but Ispit.
Whenever I see a spider, I justwant to spit.
And one of your childrenconfided to a mom that she's
exactly the same and I thoughtthat's genetic.
This dream that was two secondslong that woke me up was I saw
(27:40):
this incredibly big spider, thesize of a small dog, and it ran
after me this is all in twoseconds Reached out one of its
legs and touched my flesh to apoint where, in that two-second
dream, I yelled out and thatwoke me.
Like that and some dreams youforget immediately.
But I haven't forgot this oneBecause, as Christians, if we
(28:02):
want the power in the church, weneed to sanctify ourselves and
there is a beast that wants toreach out and touch our flesh
because that's what the spiderdid.
It touched my flesh.
That's what the spider did.
It touched my flesh.
That's what made me yell.
It touched my right leg All intwo seconds.
And every time I go to thelocal college, twice a day I
feel that beast rise up and wantto touch my flesh because
(28:23):
there's so many girls dressedinappropriately, got out hunting
the beach.
Every time I'm driving, just asthere's the pier I'm driving up
there, it is again that beast.
And what I've got to say tomyself is that beast promises
pleasure, but it has a stingit's death.
Every man is drawn away by hisown lusts, and then lust, when
(28:43):
it's conceived, brings forth sin.
Sin, when it's finished, bringsforth death.
And so it really helped me.
This morning I was going to alocal college.
As I go in there, they areagain girls inappropriately
dressed and I just said tomyself spider.
And immediately it brought asobriety to mind.
So I hope that what's happenedto Charlie Kirk causes each of
(29:05):
us to put the fear of God in ourhearts.
Let it in and sanctify ourselvesand guard our eyes and guard
our hearts, because that's wherethe power comes from.
God wants a strong church.
So, like I love what you said,Izzy, we're giving away two
million of these tracts.
Paul McCartney is coming to theUS in the next six weeks.
(29:28):
For six weeks, end of thismonth, through the whole month
he's going to 15 cities in theUS, so there are literally
hundreds of thousands of Beatlesfans, not just older people but
young people.
One of the Beatles videos onYouTube has had over 500 million
views, so it's got it rightacross the culture.
So this is a little blow-up sowe can see what's going on.
(29:51):
Brad Snow did a wonderful joband it's got these little what
do you call them?
Easter eggs, easter eggs hiddenin them.
So Beatles fans are going toabsolutely love this.
It's going to be seen as amemorabilia.
They're going to snap them upquicker than grabbing hotcakes
on a cold day in Alaska.
So these are completely free.
(30:11):
Just go to livingwaterscomforward slash fab4.
Got it right.
I believe so, and they'recompletely free, and 2 million
of them, and we would love it ifwe got so bombarded that we
have to get another 2 millionprinted, because this is one
thing we can practically do,because we can say to you share
the gospel, knock on yourneighbor's door.
That's great, but here,literally, probably millions of
(30:35):
people could be reached with agospel message that's going to
resonate within their hearts sotake advantage of that.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, let me just say , friends, that this is not an
endorsement of the beat.
This is us taking an opportunitythat we see in front of us, of
all these people gathered andjust saying, look, is there a
way we can reach them with thegospel?
And so on the back of that billis the gospel, and so people
are going to take it asmemorabilia.
So please understand that thisisn't us saying the Beatles are
(31:01):
great and they were wonderfuland we endorse what they did and
stood for.
We understand their paganismand the history of all that.
This is to reach souls.
We do this on a lot ofoccasions when we don't agree
with the people that may be tiedto a track that we've produced.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
We've had Obama a million.
We've had Trump a millionPeople we don't totally agree
with.
But let me just say Paul in thebook of Acts, chapter 17, stood
up and quoted godlessidolatrous, perhaps adulterous,
fornicating greek poets.
Why did he do that?
Because it was a springboard tohis hero, something they
related to, and so that's ourprecedent.
(31:34):
In scripture he said by allmeans, reach some.
So this is a wonderful way toreach people with a message of
everlasting life yeah, you know,just this morning actually, I
was telling tanny about thisearlier today.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Uh, I was reading from my morning devotional.
I've been reading throughRevelation.
I was reading Revelation 4 andit prompted a question during my
workout afterwards which is areyou willing to suffer for
Christ?
So, revelation 4, the backdropis you get this vision of the
(32:07):
cherubs and the angelssurrounding God and they're
crying out to the Lord, they'resinging holy, holy, holy is the
Lord, god Almighty, who was andis and is to come.
And the commentary that I wasreading through it helped me
remember that this isn't just amoment.
This is actually ultimatereality.
(32:27):
What we see and experienceright now is a shadow of what's
really going on.
In many ways, the eternal storythat's happening, that's
actually happening for all ofeternity, is exactly that that
these angels, these cherubs,they would spend eternity
singing a song to God Holy, holy, holy is the Lord, god Almighty
(32:51):
, who was and is and is to come.
And as we talk about heavenhere on earth, we often talk
about I can't wait.
You know, confessionally, I'llalways like I can't wait to eat
as many breakfast burritos as Iwant and never get fat.
And we think like that's howgreat heaven's gonna be, and
maybe there's elements of truthto that.
But what Revelation 4 remindedof is that ultimately, that,
(33:12):
ultimately, heaven is about thatan eternal moment of glorifying
God in ultimate joy for all ofeternity, with all of creation,
all of saved creation.
And so I took that and I was inthe middle of my workout and I
asked myself that question am Iwilling to suffer?
And so I took that and I was inthe middle of my workout and I
asked myself that question am Iwilling to suffer?
And so the prompt in my mindcame to this is and imagine this
(33:33):
.
Imagine you're not a believerand one day you witness your
neighbor, the spouse, goes tojail for their faith, their kids
are murdered, and not only that, but like your entire city, the
neighborhood, the news,everybody is celebrating like
good riddance, get rid of thesevermin, like let's, let's get
(33:55):
rid of them.
You know that's a celebration,nobody's lamenting.
And you wake up the nextmorning and you're comfortable,
middle-class home and you're inyour comfortable, middle-class
pajamas and you walk outside andpass your comfortable,
middle-class car to get the youknow, to get your, your mail,
and a puffy eyed neighbor, thespouse leftover walks up to you
(34:17):
and says can I tell you aboutJesus?
Would you listen?
Would you listen?
Because I think in America, like, we're so used to Christianity
being comfortable and safe andacceptable, and for most of
human history, for most ofChristian history, it wasn't.
(34:39):
But especially in those first300 years, when it was
definitely not safe the birth ofthe early church it was not
safe to be a Christian, and yetthe church grew radically, went
from 500 to countless, and we'rethe recipients of that same
(35:01):
faith.
And so, in my mind, I thinkit's time to stop being American
Christians.
And so, in my mind, I thinkit's time to stop being American
Christians.
It's time to be Christians.
You know biblical, historicalChristians.
Like we need to be honest.
It's not safe to be a Christian, it's not.
But are you still willing tofollow Christ?
(35:21):
And you might think like, why?
Why would you do that?
The answer for me, I believe,is yes.
Yes, I would listen.
And the reason why I wouldlisten even if everything, if my
family was at stake, if I knewit would mean the end of my
children's life, if be separatedfrom my spouse, why would I
still listen?
Why would I say yes to being aChristian?
(35:43):
It's because ultimate realityis all of creation, is singing
to God holy, holy, holy is theLord, god Almighty, who was and
is and is to come.
What else is there to live for?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Amen, oscar.
You know we're talking aboutour brother Charlie, and how his
death was instant For some ofus right now, I believe, who are
alive.
In light of what may happenregarding our faith, we may be
(36:25):
put in a different predicament,where we're given an option to
deny Christ and to blaspheme hisname, or to stay true to him
unto death.
And I just have a challenge,you know, for all of us, because
you would be hard-pressed tofind someone who professes to be
(36:45):
a Christian, who would not say,if you ask them, would you die
for the name of Christ?
Who would say no, I mean that'sthe expected answer.
Of course I would die for myfaith.
I remember as a pagan kid Iwould talk about I would die for
my Catholicism.
That's how I felt.
(37:06):
We often say we would die formy Catholicism.
That's how I felt.
We often say we would die forthe Lord.
I remember when my daughterJulia was seven years old.
I was in bed sleep in themiddle of the night and all of a
sudden I was awakened by just aloud yell and I jump out of bed
.
I run down the hallway, runinto her room and I see Rachel
there in a panic.
I look on the bed.
Julia's lying there, her eyesrolled back in her head.
(37:28):
She's writhing on the bed, foamcoming out of her mouth.
I'm like what in the world?
She's seven years old and ourworld just turned upside down in
one moment.
So we called 911.
We're waiting, we're trying tohelp her.
They got there, thank God,quickly, and they come in and we
find out she was having aseizure.
They take her to the hospitaland they're running a battery of
(37:48):
tests.
She was unconscious.
I remember they had tubesconnected all over and I
remember sitting there just intears, looking at her through
blurred vision, and I remembersaying Lord, if she needed my
heart right now, I would dig myhand into my chest and rip it
(38:09):
out and give it to her.
If she needed my eyes, I'd ripthem out of their sockets and
give it to her.
If she needed every drop ofblood in my entire body, I would
drain my body dry to make surethat my daughter stays alive.
And as I was thinking that,another thought came into my
(38:30):
mind, and it was this easyyou're willing to die for the
sake of your daughter.
Are you willing to live in sucha way so as to further life in
her and friends?
That's the question before us.
Are we willing to live in sucha way that we want to further
(38:50):
life in others Before we saywe'll die for Christ?
How are we living for Christ,and especially as it relates to
the gospel?
This isn't about condemnation.
This is about encouragement tosay even if you struggle in
sharing the gospel, christsympathizes with your weaknesses
and he calls you to come boldlyto his throne of grace to
receive mercy and find grace tohelp in time of need.
(39:11):
So let's wake up.
Let's let this be used for thegood.
What happened to our dearbrother Charlie?
And to say we're going to pickup that banner, we're going to
keep running.
I mean, you heard Ray say he'sready to go to campuses.
This is what we need.
We need to rise up and say we'renot afraid of death, because we
know the prince of life and weunderstand that to live is
(39:35):
Christ and to die is gain.
But are we living for Christ orare we just trifling with the
trinkets of this world that meannothing?
Where's our devotional life?
Where's our prayer life?
Where's our commitment to theword?
Where's our love for our family?
Where's our desire to die toourself?
We need to wake up.
(39:56):
We can't just keep cruising.
We can't keep saying tomorrowwe might not have it.
And even if you haven't beenliving fully for the Lord and
you say now I will, and you dietomorrow, at least you died,
committed to live fully forChrist.
So, friends, it's time to wakeup and it's time to say no,
we're going to make this countfor the glory of God.
(40:17):
He's there to help.
Emotions will fade, we'll wakeup tomorrow.
Other things will distract us,but we have to commit now and we
have to recommit every singleday, because we are prone to
wander, we are prone to leavethe God we love.
But if we just come and say,lord, here I am, help me,
without you I can do nothing, hewill.
(40:39):
Let me just get that.
This is from Turning Point, usa.
It says it is with a heavyheart that we confirm that
Charles James Kirk has beenmurdered by a gunshot that took
place during Turning Point,usa's the American Comeback Tour
campus event at Utah ValleyUniversity on September 10th
(41:01):
2025.
May he be received into themerciful arms of our loving
savior, who suffered and diedfor Charlie.
We ask that everyone keep hisfamily and loved ones in your
prayers.
We ask that you please respecttheir privacy and dignity at
this time, and so we ask all ofyou to do that, to pray for
(41:22):
Charlie's family and to respecttheir privacy, but, beyond all
of that, to live in a way thatsays Charlie's savior was worth
dying for.
So, guys, you have anythingelse to add?
All right, we'll wrap it upthere.
God bless you, guys, and let'scontinue to hold our loved ones
(41:48):
close, hold the Lord closer andhold our lives looser for God's
glory.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.