May 13, 2025 • 9 mins
Eternal security means that those who are truly saved will persevere to the end because their salvation is the work of God from start to finish. It’s not about our strength or performance, but about God’s faithfulness. The guys emphasize that fear of losing salvation often stems from focusing too much on ourselves rather than the finished work of Christ. They explain that a true believer will show signs of transformation—a changed heart, godly desires, and grief over sin. Even when we fall short, Jesus is our advocate. If someone walks away from the faith, they were never truly part of it. God will complete the work He began, and nothing can snatch His children from His hand.
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Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But how many believers are stunted because
there is this fear hanging overthem that they've just lost
their salvation or they're goingto.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yeah, I imagine a lot , and I think, in addition to
that, their salvation, or Ishould say their relationship
with God, is stuck and away fromwhat he intends for it to be,
which Psalm 51, restore to methe joy of my salvation and the
invitation there is to livejoyfully in confidence, not over
(00:31):
what you do, but over what Godhas done for you.
And I think the more and here'sthe reality is that ultimately,
in eternal insecurity, whatwe're doing is we're focusing on
ourselves.
It's all about what I am or amnot doing.
Eternal security is all aboutfocusing on God and what he has
(00:57):
done for me.
And so, ultimately, you kind ofMark, I think last episode you
were quoting CS Lewis, in whichI just completely lost the quote
in my mind.
I just pulled an easy.
What was the quote?
Oh, humility or pride is notthinking of yourself, less of
yourself, but thinking ofyourself less.
That was how CS Lewis quoted it, and I think our eternal
(01:20):
security is something similar.
We need to stop thinking aboutourselves and start thinking
more about what God has done andthe reality that he's holding
onto us.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well, ray, that's right.
I mean, when we sin, the remedyis to turn to the cross right.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
If we confess our sins, he's faithful and just to
forgive us our sins and cleanseus from all unrighteousness.
I read something there theother day when I was looking at
that verse to forgive us oursins and cleanse us from all
unrighteousness.
I read something there theother day when I was looking at
that verse I thought I've neverreally seen that and had a
revelation of what it's actuallysaying.
If we confess our sins, he isfaithful and just.
That brings in the cross.
(01:57):
Yes, because God isn't justfaithful to forgive our sins,
he's just to forgive our sinsand the cross makes provision
for our forgiveness and keepsthe law satisfied and we're
justified through it.
Blessed be the God and Father,lord Jesus Christ, who,
according to his abundant mercy,has begotten us again to a
lively hope through theresurrection of Jesus Christ
from the dead, to an inheritanceincorruptible and undefiled
(02:19):
that does not fade away,reserved in heaven for you who
are kept by the power of Godthrough faith for salvation,
ready to be revealed until thelast time.
What we're saying at the momentabout having faith in God and
his promises may not mean thatmuch, but when you're on your
deathbed, you want to know thatyou're saved.
You want to know that theparachute you're jumping with
(02:41):
isn't faulty, that you can takeit on and put it back on.
Take it off, put it on.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
No God gives it to you and he'll keep you If we
treat eternal security not as ahammock where I can just, oh, I
can do whatever I want to do,bro.
I mean right, I mean I can sit,and this is kind of the
Catholic viewpoint that I had arelative who was Catholic and
said, oh, you believe in eternalsecurity.
(03:10):
It's like, oh, so you can justdo whatever you want to do.
Now I go.
What are you talking about?
Where did you get this idea?
I'm not treating eternalsecurity as a hammock, though I
can rest because Christ has donethe work.
I treat it as a safety netbecause I can't fall, I will
never stumble, I'm not going tobe going down to hell.
He's not going to punish mewhen I mess up because he
punished his son.
There's only room for onepunishment for the believer
right or for the non-believer.
(03:30):
You get punished in hellbecause you've rejected God, or
Christ is punishing you.
So now God can correct you, hecan chastise you, and you want
him to do that right.
But no, it is a safety net, nota hammock.
Just come alive with the ideathat it's not about you, it's
(03:51):
about Christ in you, the hope ofglory, amen.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I love the way you've always put it If saved, always
saved, explain that.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, I don't know where I got it from.
I don't think it was originalAI.
No, no it was pre-AI, it wasmany years ago, but you can find
a thousand Bible verses tojustify someone who believes or
for someone who believes tojustify you.
Can fall away and you've got topersevere or at least you fall
away.
They find all these verses, notrealizing there's such a thing
(04:24):
as true and false conversion.
If someone is genuinely saved,they put their hand to the plow
and don't look back, becausethey're fit for the kingdom and
God has made them fit.
They're the good soil hero thatbrings forth fruit hundredfold.
He doesn't fall away like thestony ground hero when
temptation, persecution andtribulation comes.
And then you look at verseslike he is able to keep you from
falling and present youfaultless before the presence of
his glory with exceeding joy.
Oh man Jude 24 and 25.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I want to give a reference to this because,
listen, we have a lot of peoplelistening right now who have
been haunted by the fear thatthey've lost their salvation or
are going to lose it.
Matthew 7 makes it very, veryclear that there are people who
will have thought they knew God.
Lord.
Lord, have we not prophesied,cast out demons, done many
(05:06):
wonders in your name?
And I will say to them I neverknew you.
Depart from me, you whopractice lawlessness.
I never knew you.
And isn't that interesting whenyou think about what Paul said
in Galatians?
He said but then, indeed andthis is in Galatians 4, 1, and
on, he said but then, indeed,when you did not know God, you
served those which, by nature,are not gods.
(05:28):
But now, after you've come toknow God, or rather are known by
God I love how he put thatYou're known by God.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Mark, I want to comment on that scripture that
you just said.
And then you'll tell themplainly I never knew you.
Depart me from your work ofiniquity.
I never knew you.
He didn't say at one time Iknew you.
Right, exactly Right.
I mean, if he said I never knewyou, it means he never knew him
.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
How do I break that down?
Any more than that, right?
So it's like depart from me,you worker of iniquity.
I once knew you, but I don'tknow you anymore.
This is a great verse for thedoctrine of eternal security,
right RC Sproul.
He said the perseverance of thesaints is really the
perseverance of God.
With the saints, christ doesnot save halfway, he saves to
(06:22):
the last breath.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Wow, so often I hear preachers get lazy in their
preaching and ultimately you canreduce their sermons down to
spiritual moralism in which it'slike hey guys, today's sermon's
on prayer, here's how you needto pray.
You're not praying enough, youneed to pray more.
If you're really a Christian,you'd be praying this way.
All right, go pray and youleave and you're like man.
(06:46):
Okay, I guess I'm a badChristian.
Or you leave going.
Well, I guess I am a Christianbecause I'm doing these things
when the reality is that we needto preach the gospel so that
people have confidence in theireternal security.
Again, not pointing at what wedo, but pointing at what Christ
has done for us.
Amen.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Spurgeon, the old Baptist preacher.
He said, if you could lose yoursalvation, you would.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I mean, how strong do you think you are?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
and how prideful are you to think that you can
maintain it.
I mean it's absolutelyridiculous.
And then JI Packer.
He said your faith will notfail while God sustains it.
You are not strong enough tofall away while God has resolved
to hold you.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
We could have just ended it with.
If you could lose yoursalvation, you would.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Thank you, spurgeon.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, spurgeon.
1 Thessalonians 5, 23 and 24.
Now may the God of peacehimself sanctify you completely
and may your whole spirit, souland body be preserved, blameless
at the coming of our Lord JesusChrist.
(07:58):
He who calls you is faithful,who also will do it.
There, my brothers and sisters,is your eternal security.
He look unto him.
He is faithful, he will do it.
He's going to sanctify youcompletely.
He's going to preserve you ifyou're his.
So yeah, examine yourself tosee if you're in the faith, make
(08:18):
your call and election.
Sure, if you live a life ofhabitual sin and you don't care
about it, you may not be saved.
But if you can look and you sayI hate my sin, I wish I could
never sin, I never want to sin,but yet you find yourself in the
process of sanctification,stumbling.
You are his and you are hisforever.
(08:40):
So rest in that and let thatfuel you to draw closer to him
and walk more passionately inyour walk with him.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I heard someone once say if you're worried about your
salvation, it's a good sign youdon't have to be.
Yeah, I like that Good way toput it.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Thank you for tuning in to this week's highlights
from the Living Waters podcast.
Friends, we value your time, sowe've created a bite-sized
version of our podcast forlisteners who want to get
equipped.
Without the jokes andfellowship, be sure to check out
the full episode every Thursdaywhere we dive deeper into the
topic.
Until then, you can watch thefull podcast episode available
(09:16):
now on livingwaterstv.
But how many believers are stunted because
there is this fear hanging overthem that they've just lost
their salvation or they're goingto.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yeah, I imagine a lot , and I think, in addition to
that, their salvation, or Ishould say their relationship
with God, is stuck and away fromwhat he intends for it to be,
which Psalm 51, restore to methe joy of my salvation and the
invitation there is to livejoyfully in confidence, not over
(00:31):
what you do, but over what Godhas done for you.
And I think the more and here'sthe reality is that ultimately,
in eternal insecurity, whatwe're doing is we're focusing on
ourselves.
It's all about what I am or amnot doing.
Eternal security is all aboutfocusing on God and what he has
(00:57):
done for me.
And so, ultimately, you kind ofMark, I think last episode you
were quoting CS Lewis, in whichI just completely lost the quote
in my mind.
I just pulled an easy.
What was the quote?
Oh, humility or pride is notthinking of yourself, less of
yourself, but thinking ofyourself less.
That was how CS Lewis quoted it, and I think our eternal
(01:20):
security is something similar.
We need to stop thinking aboutourselves and start thinking
more about what God has done andthe reality that he's holding
onto us.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well, ray, that's right.
I mean, when we sin, the remedyis to turn to the cross right.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
If we confess our sins, he's faithful and just to
forgive us our sins and cleanseus from all unrighteousness.
I read something there theother day when I was looking at
that verse to forgive us oursins and cleanse us from all
unrighteousness.
I read something there theother day when I was looking at
that verse I thought I've neverreally seen that and had a
revelation of what it's actuallysaying.
If we confess our sins, he isfaithful and just.
That brings in the cross.
(01:57):
Yes, because God isn't justfaithful to forgive our sins,
he's just to forgive our sinsand the cross makes provision
for our forgiveness and keepsthe law satisfied and we're
justified through it.
Blessed be the God and Father,lord Jesus Christ, who,
according to his abundant mercy,has begotten us again to a
lively hope through theresurrection of Jesus Christ
from the dead, to an inheritanceincorruptible and undefiled
(02:19):
that does not fade away,reserved in heaven for you who
are kept by the power of Godthrough faith for salvation,
ready to be revealed until thelast time.
What we're saying at the momentabout having faith in God and
his promises may not mean thatmuch, but when you're on your
deathbed, you want to know thatyou're saved.
You want to know that theparachute you're jumping with
(02:41):
isn't faulty, that you can takeit on and put it back on.
Take it off, put it on.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
No God gives it to you and he'll keep you If we
treat eternal security not as ahammock where I can just, oh, I
can do whatever I want to do,bro.
I mean right, I mean I can sit,and this is kind of the
Catholic viewpoint that I had arelative who was Catholic and
said, oh, you believe in eternalsecurity.
(03:10):
It's like, oh, so you can justdo whatever you want to do.
Now I go.
What are you talking about?
Where did you get this idea?
I'm not treating eternalsecurity as a hammock, though I
can rest because Christ has donethe work.
I treat it as a safety netbecause I can't fall, I will
never stumble, I'm not going tobe going down to hell.
He's not going to punish mewhen I mess up because he
punished his son.
There's only room for onepunishment for the believer
right or for the non-believer.
(03:30):
You get punished in hellbecause you've rejected God, or
Christ is punishing you.
So now God can correct you, hecan chastise you, and you want
him to do that right.
But no, it is a safety net, nota hammock.
Just come alive with the ideathat it's not about you, it's
(03:51):
about Christ in you, the hope ofglory, amen.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I love the way you've always put it If saved, always
saved, explain that.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, I don't know where I got it from.
I don't think it was originalAI.
No, no it was pre-AI, it wasmany years ago, but you can find
a thousand Bible verses tojustify someone who believes or
for someone who believes tojustify you.
Can fall away and you've got topersevere or at least you fall
away.
They find all these verses, notrealizing there's such a thing
(04:24):
as true and false conversion.
If someone is genuinely saved,they put their hand to the plow
and don't look back, becausethey're fit for the kingdom and
God has made them fit.
They're the good soil hero thatbrings forth fruit hundredfold.
He doesn't fall away like thestony ground hero when
temptation, persecution andtribulation comes.
And then you look at verseslike he is able to keep you from
falling and present youfaultless before the presence of
his glory with exceeding joy.
Oh man Jude 24 and 25.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I want to give a reference to this because,
listen, we have a lot of peoplelistening right now who have
been haunted by the fear thatthey've lost their salvation or
are going to lose it.
Matthew 7 makes it very, veryclear that there are people who
will have thought they knew God.
Lord.
Lord, have we not prophesied,cast out demons, done many
(05:06):
wonders in your name?
And I will say to them I neverknew you.
Depart from me, you whopractice lawlessness.
I never knew you.
And isn't that interesting whenyou think about what Paul said
in Galatians?
He said but then, indeed andthis is in Galatians 4, 1, and
on, he said but then, indeed,when you did not know God, you
served those which, by nature,are not gods.
(05:28):
But now, after you've come toknow God, or rather are known by
God I love how he put thatYou're known by God.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Mark, I want to comment on that scripture that
you just said.
And then you'll tell themplainly I never knew you.
Depart me from your work ofiniquity.
I never knew you.
He didn't say at one time Iknew you.
Right, exactly Right.
I mean, if he said I never knewyou, it means he never knew him
.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
How do I break that down?
Any more than that, right?
So it's like depart from me,you worker of iniquity.
I once knew you, but I don'tknow you anymore.
This is a great verse for thedoctrine of eternal security,
right RC Sproul.
He said the perseverance of thesaints is really the
perseverance of God.
With the saints, christ doesnot save halfway, he saves to
(06:22):
the last breath.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Wow, so often I hear preachers get lazy in their
preaching and ultimately you canreduce their sermons down to
spiritual moralism in which it'slike hey guys, today's sermon's
on prayer, here's how you needto pray.
You're not praying enough, youneed to pray more.
If you're really a Christian,you'd be praying this way.
All right, go pray and youleave and you're like man.
(06:46):
Okay, I guess I'm a badChristian.
Or you leave going.
Well, I guess I am a Christianbecause I'm doing these things
when the reality is that we needto preach the gospel so that
people have confidence in theireternal security.
Again, not pointing at what wedo, but pointing at what Christ
has done for us.
Amen.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Spurgeon, the old Baptist preacher.
He said, if you could lose yoursalvation, you would.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I mean, how strong do you think you are?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
and how prideful are you to think that you can
maintain it.
I mean it's absolutelyridiculous.
And then JI Packer.
He said your faith will notfail while God sustains it.
You are not strong enough tofall away while God has resolved
to hold you.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
We could have just ended it with.
If you could lose yoursalvation, you would.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Thank you, spurgeon.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, spurgeon.
1 Thessalonians 5, 23 and 24.
Now may the God of peacehimself sanctify you completely
and may your whole spirit, souland body be preserved, blameless
at the coming of our Lord JesusChrist.
(07:58):
He who calls you is faithful,who also will do it.
There, my brothers and sisters,is your eternal security.
He look unto him.
He is faithful, he will do it.
He's going to sanctify youcompletely.
He's going to preserve you ifyou're his.
So yeah, examine yourself tosee if you're in the faith, make
(08:18):
your call and election.
Sure, if you live a life ofhabitual sin and you don't care
about it, you may not be saved.
But if you can look and you sayI hate my sin, I wish I could
never sin, I never want to sin,but yet you find yourself in the
process of sanctification,stumbling.
You are his and you are hisforever.
(08:40):
So rest in that and let thatfuel you to draw closer to him
and walk more passionately inyour walk with him.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I heard someone once say if you're worried about your
salvation, it's a good sign youdon't have to be.
Yeah, I like that Good way toput it.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Thank you for tuning in to this week's highlights
from the Living Waters podcast.
Friends, we value your time, sowe've created a bite-sized
version of our podcast forlisteners who want to get
equipped.
Without the jokes andfellowship, be sure to check out
the full episode every Thursdaywhere we dive deeper into the
topic.
Until then, you can watch thefull podcast episode available
(09:16):
now on livingwaterstv.
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