November 13, 2025 • 23 mins
What if stubborn foot pain isn’t a foot problem at all? We sit down with registered nurse and Second Brain Health founder Rachel Hayon to connect the dots between chronic pain, hidden inflammation, toxin load, and the reflexes your nervous system uses to guard and move your body. When scans keep coming back “normal,” Rachel explains why nutrition, detox, and MNRI reflex integration can finally move the needle.
We dig into how excess fat isn’t just extra weight but an inflammatory organ that releases cytokines and stores toxins, keeping tissues irritated and recovery slow. Rachel breaks down why many “fortified” foods rely on synthetic vitamins, how that can block absorption, and what to choose instead to support DNA repair, methylation, and anti-inflammatory pathways. From smart supplementation to simple detox tools—movement, sweat, sauna, hot baths—you’ll hear practical steps that reduce load on tissues so podiatry treatments can actually hold.
Then we go deeper into MNRI: how gentle touch wakes skin receptors, calms the central nervous system, and re-patterns primary reflexes disrupted by trauma. That shift can ease jaw clenching, improve foot alignment, and help the hips and knees share load. Real stories bring it to life, including a case where post-surgical pain finally softened once nervous system patterns and lifestyle were addressed. The message is clear: treat the person, not just the plantar fascia. Rebuild the foundation—nutrition, detox, movement, stress relief—and your body remembers how to heal.
If this conversation gave you a new way to think about pain, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs hope, and leave a quick review so more people can find it.
Visit LMDPodiatry.com to learn more about getting back on your feet—for good.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome to the LMD Pediatry Podcast.
Trust us to get back on yourfeet.
Here's your host, Dr.
Lauren DeBakarov.
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
Hey everybody.
Happy Monday.
This is the LMD PediatryPodcast, and I'm your host, Dr.
Lauren Debakaroff.
And today we have a specialguest, Rachel Hayon, a good
friend of mine, who does lots ofstuff.
Rachel, tell us what you do.
SPEAKER_02 (00:32):
Thanks for having me on, Lauren.
So my name's Rachel.
The name of my company is SecondBrain Health.
I am a registered nurse and I doeverything from health coaching
to balance board training toutilizing a therapy called MNRI.
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
So I met Rachel many years ago and we're we reunited
randomly, and it was a greatreunion, and I learned a lot
about what she does.
And I wanted to bring Rachel ontoday because I feel like what
she does is very important to doin conjunction with what I do.
(01:07):
So as you know, Rachel is on apodiatrist, and I see a lot of
foot problems, and there's justsome people that don't heal from
anything.
Um, if they have an injury or umchronic pain or something like
that, there's something going onin their level of health that's
(01:29):
not letting their body repairitself, either it's the DNA
repair or their age.
And I find that a lot of it hasto do with their actual
well-being.
And I know that you're alifestyle coach as well.
And we talked a little, wealways chit-chat about what you
do.
You've actually helped me in thepast.
(01:50):
Um, you still are.
And uh, how do you think thatlike how do you incorporate what
you do when someone comes to youwith a pro like?
I feel like everybody comes toyou when there's just something
that they can't figure out, andyou find out like um on a deeper
(02:10):
level where their health comesin.
How do you feel like itincorporates to people with
different pains and aches aroundtheir body?
SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
Well, you know, it's a good question, Lauren.
And yes, everybody ends upcoming when they have a problem,
right?
Not usually preventatively.
So the first thing that I do islook to see what somebody is
eating, how are they sleeping,are they taking supplements?
If so, what are they?
Um, but a lot of what we can dofor our health is in our own
(02:42):
hands in terms of proper foodchoices, which is still very
tricky today given what's on ourshelves.
So a lot of times people don'tknow what the proper thing is to
eat, and that in itself is aneducation process.
Um starting with that will leadto better results with any type
of therapy, or if somebody comesto you with an injury and
(03:04):
they're inflamed, um, you can doas much as you can do.
Obviously, you're trying yourbest, but they have to do their
part in terms of propernutrition, uh, proper
supplementation.
And a big one that people don'ttalk about very often is
detoxification of the body.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Right, which is I think I mentioned it briefly on
some of my other podcasts thatyou know, today we live in,
especially in America, there'sjust like our food is not
nutrient-rich.
So you kind of have to, becauseof the soil, and it's like a big
topic that people aren't reallyaware of, and I feel like that's
(03:43):
a really big part of DNA repair.
Like, I think you and I have amutual patient.
We actually have talked aboutthis person recently, and uh he
there's nothing I I did hissurgery and every type of
therapy I've sent him to likeevery therapist and every
adjunct I can I can think of,and every MRI came back that
(04:09):
there's nothing wrong with hisfoot, and I was like, all right,
it's all in his head, and youcame in and you helped him a
little bit, and it was like umyou mentioned that it was just a
response to the trauma heexperienced from you know having
foot pain up until he finallymet me and I physically fixed
his issue, right?
So that's when like I think yourI think the MNRI helped him a
(04:33):
lot, and it's it's veryinteresting how people there's
like there's like a combinationof how people process their
pain, and there's also liketheir physical health on how
their body heals, and right alot of people have like let's
say you're 40 years old, butyour biologic age is 50, and
it's because of the food that weeat, and it's because of our
(04:56):
level of health, right?
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
Sure, absolutely, absolutely.
I mean somebody could be likeyou said, 40 years old, but uh
physically seem or feel mucholder.
And in the case of the clientthat you're referring to, poor
guy has been in pain for such along time, and he did say that
you really did try to help himwith everything, and he was
(05:20):
always baffled that things kepton coming back clear.
Um, but he wasn't necessarilyeating the best that he possibly
could, and because I think ofthe the trauma that he was in,
it was hard for him to get youknow into that.
So part of MNRI therapy ishelping to release the trauma
that the body holds.
(05:41):
Um and uh and we were talkingalso about how he could make
better food choices and whatsupplements he could take to
help reduce inflammation.
And in his case, probably a lotof the clients that you see, or
patients that you see, um, ifthey've been on meds for a long
time, if they've been onpharmaceuticals for a long time,
(06:01):
uh in all likelihood their bodyisn't clearing it properly.
And that means that they need todo things in order to help
clear.
And there are some supplementsthat you and I have talked
about, um, but there are otherthings that you can do on your
own, whether it's, you know,exercise is a great detox
because you're sweating, goinginto a sauna, um, going into a
hot bath, you know, any of thesethings will help to remove the
(06:24):
toxins that you have loaded inyour body.
And people always ask, you know,my grandparents didn't have to
do that, but they weren'tdealing with the amount of toxin
exposure that we are today.
SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
Correct.
Correct.
I I get that a lot on my ownpersonal issues as well.
It's hard for me to accept it,but it's the reality, and
there's uh there's a lot we cando about it with the help of
someone like you.
Um it's it's it's veryinteresting.
Like if I have a patient, let'ssay with a chronic plantar
(06:58):
fasciitis, so the most commoncause of them continually having
the issue is because they'reconstantly straining their heel,
right?
But then there are certainpoints that I I do admit to
them, like, listen, you're obeseand it doesn't matter how much I
(07:20):
immobilize you and how muchfancy regenerative medicine I
use on you, you have a constantstrain on your foot from the
weight.
So it's very hard for them tolike admit it to themselves.
And you know, I on the lastpodcast, me and Jeremy were
talking about chronic pain, andit's just like your body can't
(07:41):
recover from that if you'reconstantly straining the same
area.
And right you can physicaltherapy and get all the steroid
injections and all the stem cellinjections and all the laser,
but if there's 400 pounds onthat foot, it's not going to get
better, and and that's also partof the repair.
SPEAKER_02 (07:59):
Right.
And it's also that people don'trealize that fat cells
themselves are inflammatory.
So in addition to the physicalweight, they're inflammatory fat
cells.
Uh fat cells release somethingcalled cytokines.
Cytokines are inflammatorymolecules.
So just the fact that somebodyis carrying excess fat on their
(08:19):
body means that they'reconstantly in a state of
inflammation.
Um, incidentally, fat cells alsohouse toxins, it's our body's
way of keeping us safe.
So the larger somebody is, inall likelihood, the more toxins
they're carrying around andtheir body can't get rid of
them.
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
I once heard I once heard something about vitamin D
that even though we technicallyhave a lot of vitamin D in our
diets and things like that, thatwe don't release it into our
body because it gets stored inthe fat cells.
And once you lose the fat, itgets released into your
bloodstream.
SPEAKER_02 (08:55):
Correct.
And you also have to look atwhat type of vitamins you're
you're getting.
Um, meaning a lot of foods noware fortified with different
vitamins.
Those vitamins are synthetic.
So because they are synthetic,the body oftentimes cannot
actually process them.
In fact, it can poison them.
It's it's it's a problem, andand people don't realize that
(09:17):
and don't know any better.
So a lot of the breads andcereals and pastas, they are
fortified, um, which can makeweight loss harder, which can
make healing harder.
It's better to eat foods thatare fortified and then buy good
quality supplements.
And um, again, that's somethingwhere people think or feel, like
you said, that the soil is notas nutrient-dense as it used to
(09:41):
be.
Um, that's one, but two, a lotof the toxins that we're exposed
to, a lot of the things that arein our environment can actually
leach vitamins and minerals fromour system, and that makes it
harder to heal as well.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Like what?
Can you give some examples?
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
Of course, folic acid.
Folic acid is a great onebecause folic acid is in
everything.
Um, pregnant women are told totake folic acid, um, but it's in
a synthetic form of a B vitamin,and oftentimes you can't convert
that properly.
So it actually blocks a receptorin your body for the right type
(10:17):
of B cell or B vitamin, excuseme.
Um, and that can lead to notjust difficulty with detoxing,
it can lead to a deficiency inthe vitamin you think you're
getting.
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
Do you um do you see a lot of patients with like
chronic extremity pain?
Like foot pain, leg pain.
SPEAKER_02 (10:39):
Well, you know, anybody you refer to me most
likely has that.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
Some sort of these, I bet you people with like a bad
diet, they have tired feet andthen things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
Because again, they're inflamed.
So whether it's tired feet ortired legs, if you're not moving
and not getting things out ofyour system, in all likelihood
you feel more pain, moreexhaustion.
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
Right.
Can you expand more on how MNRIworks?
Because I know you've done it tome, and I still don't understand
how it works, but it does work.
Um I will tell you a personalstory.
I clench really badly, um, andit's from this subconscious
anxiety that I have.
I'm always worried, and I clencha lot, and I've grind ground my
(11:30):
teeth to nothing, and I've triednight guard night guards are
protecting my teeth, but I stillcan't stop the clench.
And I tried TMJ therapy, I triedmassage, I went to
chiropractors, and like thisthis muscle is really, really
tight.
And then with Rachel's help, Ihave been waking up with loose
(11:52):
jaws.
And if you can just expand onwhat the MNRI means, as in like
um, like I know it's activatingthe dormant reflexes, but can
you just expand on how it'ssupposed to work or what people
can expect from an MNRI sessionand how many sessions do people
(12:13):
typically need, and things likethat?
SPEAKER_02 (12:15):
Right.
Well, it's you know, I'm gladyou draw us feeling better.
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
Yes, it's great.
SPEAKER_02 (12:21):
Um so MNRI was developed by Svetlana Mascatoba.
Um, and MRI is Mascatobaneurosensory motor uh
integration, which is reallylong, which is why it's easier
just to say MNRI.
Uh at first glance, and Laurencan vouch for this, it just
looks like a massage.
It doesn't look like anybody isdoing anything to you.
(12:42):
Um, protocols work from wakingup your skin receptors, uh,
which is something that I'vedone, and that can calm down the
central nervous system.
Um, one of the main componentsof, and and that is what MNRI is
about.
It's calming down the centralnervous system in different
ways.
Okay, in different ways.
So when we talk about primaryreflexes, we all are born with
(13:06):
reflexes.
And the one that I I likereferring to because I think
it's the easiest we can allrelate to it, is if a baby grabs
your finger, are they actuallygrabbing your finger?
No, they're not.
It's a reflex.
They're supposed to grab yourfinger, and that movement of
knowing how to protectthemselves by grabbing on is a
(13:29):
precursor to being able toprotect themselves later on.
Like there's another reflexthat's called hand supporting,
where if you are fallingforward, what do you do?
Or what should you do?
You should put your hands out infront of you and hold yourself
before you fall, right?
But some people don't have thatreflex.
Um, I know because I have a kidwho didn't have that reflex, and
(13:53):
she would fall flat on her face.
SPEAKER_00 (13:54):
So um, how does that how do we how how does someone
typically lose that reflex thatthey're supposed to lose?
SPEAKER_02 (14:01):
Traumas, typically traumas.
Um, either either somethinghappened to them um in life or
they didn't develop, you know,in the proper way for whatever
reason.
We're not always going to knowwhy unless it's an obvious like
there was an accident or therewas a birth trauma, um, or you
know, it could be as simple assomebody falling on the tush,
(14:22):
and that could throw them out ofthe proper uh out of the proper
sequence.
And these reflexes, thesemovements our body makes relate
to how our brain um processesthings and how it develops.
So we develop from the brainstemup.
So we start here and we come uphere, and that's how we're
(14:44):
supposed to.
And the movements that we makecan influence the way our brain
functions.
So M and RI can obviously, likeyou know, Lauren said, it would
help loosen up her jaw, right?
Um, but hopefully also help takeaway some of the tension and
anxiety that she was feeling.
And when anybody feels that, youknow, tension and anxiety, what
have you, worry, it it takesaway from how much you can
(15:07):
accomplish in life becauseyou're worried.
Oh, you clenched it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
I think you told me you clenched too.
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
I I did.
I did a lot worse before.
Um, I did a lot worse before.
unknown (15:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:18):
But doing different things has helped tremendously,
and it's a problem a lot ofpeople have, yeah, you know,
unfortunately.
Um, but M and RI can help witheverything from relaxation to
help with learning disorders tohelp with with anxiety to help
with people who are, you know,or children who were have
behavioral difficulties.
And um, like one little boy thatI am still seeing, but after
(15:42):
about 10 sessions, he hisreading improved dramatically,
and that was a side effect,meaning his mom brought him
because he was having behavioralissues in school, and then all
of a sudden he just didn't stopreading.
And she's like, I I don't getwhat you did, but it worked.
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
(16:03):
It's pretty cool.
It it helps connect left-rightbrain, it helps connect your
brain so it works better.
Um, people don't correlate thattouching the body changes the
brain, but it does.
SPEAKER_00 (16:14):
Yeah, it's it's a very soothing session.
She just touches you in certainspots with certain movements,
and it's very relaxing.
And I've definitely felt adifference, and I can say that I
maybe I don't feel I don't wakeup with a painful jaw as much as
(16:36):
I used to, and it's a lot veryhelpful.
Now, how can we relate this tomy patients, Rachel?
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
There's a lot of reflexes that have to do with
your feet.
There's a ton of them.
There's a ton of them.
Um, so if if some trauma hashappened to the foot, it's very
possible that the feet are notlaying in the proper position as
they should.
And with MNRI, you can gentlymanipulate things back to where
(17:04):
they should be.
You know, I mean, I had it doneto me where a therapist worked
on my feet and my feet wereconstantly falling out to the
side.
And God bless her, after acouple of sessions, my feet were
straight up like this, which iswhere they're supposed to be
anatomically.
Is when you're laying on yourback, your feet should be
sitting, stand, you know,pointing to the ceiling.
Um, and when she did that, I cansay for myself, uh, my hips
(17:27):
stopped hurting.
I I felt like my muscles werecoordinating better in one of my
legs.
Um, and uh, and again, it'sgentle manipulation that I do.
SPEAKER_00 (17:38):
Fascinating.
Even me, I actually had atendonitis on my left ankle,
guys.
Yes, the podiatrist hadtendonitis, and I couldn't
figure out why it kept comingback.
I would I would immobilize, Iwould, you know, do whatever I
do to all my patients when itcomes to a tendonitis of the
ankle.
So I would do that, I would dothe same treatment that I do to
(18:01):
everybody else.
I felt better, then it cameback.
Did the same thing again, feltbetter, came back, and then I'm
like, I don't know why my mytendonitis keeps recurring.
And I'm like, and then it'sfunny, I actually did a lot of
research and I thought maybe Ihad an anatomic misalignment.
I was like, I don't know,sometimes I measure patients
(18:24):
with limb length discrepancy,they have arthritis or they had
a knee replacement, um, and thenall of a sudden their left leg
or their right leg is a littleshorter than the other, and then
I measured myself to be even.
So why, why?
And then all of a sudden my hipsstarted hurting, my knees
started, why am I and then it'sfunny?
(18:45):
I think I was talking to youabout it, and I was talking to a
chiropractor, and I actuallyspoke to like a therapist about
it, and it seems like because ofall the anxiety I've had in the
past couple of months, you know,being a business owner and
everything, um, it seems that Iwas clenching the left side of
my body a lot.
So even though I wasn'tanatomically short, I was still
(19:09):
stressing one side of my bodyover the other.
And then that manifestation wastendonitis in my foot.
Again, most people don't talkabout this stuff because it's
not very common, but there arethings that definitely can
happen to someone that causestheir pain that they're not
aware of.
And even I saw it on myself.
(19:30):
I was like, how come mytendonitis, like this is what I
treat?
I'm a doctor.
Like, why is it my tendonitisbook?
I've done everything in thebook.
And and and and and just by likeseeing that I do have like my
inner anxiety, it does affect mymuscle tension, like now it's
affecting my leg and my my back.
(19:52):
So I was like, oh wow, I reallyhave to fix that.
And then with MNRI, with youknow, breathing exercises, and I
think some of your yourmovements I've been doing have
been really helping, and youknow, I don't really have the
pain anymore like I used to.
Once in a while, once in a whileit acts up, but uh it's not
(20:13):
nearly as bad as it used to be.
And you know, when it when itacts up, it's either had a
little anxiety, but not becauseI was wearing the wrong shoe or
not um you know aligning my footproperly.
And uh it's it's very you know,but you're you're finding ways
to help yourself, and that's whythat's why people like you exist
(20:35):
when you know not everything isin a textbook, not everything is
in uh you don't learn everythingin med school, like most of what
I've learned is from experiencewith patients, and I see what
works, and even like I said,like the obese patient that
doesn't cure their their footpain, they have to lose weight,
(20:56):
and lifestyle is very important,and that's where you come in.
So that is very important torepair yourself and don't spend
all your, even though I have allthis fancy regenerative medicine
treatment.
You always I always like to getto the root of the issue, you
know, before I treat thesymptom.
Like, sure, I can provide yourrelief of pain with a pill or or
(21:19):
whatever, but I always tell mypatients, what's the root of the
problem?
The root of the problem isyou're not walking, you're
tight, uh, you don't exercise,and you're wearing the wrong
shoes.
And all that in combinationcauses your foot issue.
SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
Right, right.
And it is always a combination,right?
It's never really one littlething that happened, you know,
and with you know, with theguidance from you in terms of
that, and like you said, if theyneed the regenerative medicine
piece, then you'll provide.
Otherwise, it's really nice tohear that a doctor is trying to
find another way to do it, youknow, lifestyle changes.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And with that, Rachel, thank youso much for coming on to my
podcast.
I think thank you for having me.
I think everybody's getting verywell informed that it's not, it
doesn't just end with a pill anduh with shots.
There's always something elsethat you could do to help your
body repair.
(22:15):
And if you guys ever want toreach out to Rachel, uh she is
where can we find you, Rachel?
SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
You can find me on Instagram under Second Brain
Health.
And if you're in Dr.
Debakarov's office, I think shehas some of my business cards.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
I do.
All right, guys, it was a greatshow.
See you next time.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
Thank you for listening to the LMD Podiatry
Podcast.
For more information, visitLMDPodiatry dot com.
That's LMD P-O-D-I-A-T-R-Y dotcom.
Or call nine five four six eightzero seven one three three.
Welcome to the LMD Pediatry Podcast.
Trust us to get back on yourfeet.
Here's your host, Dr.
Lauren DeBakarov.
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
Hey everybody.
Happy Monday.
This is the LMD PediatryPodcast, and I'm your host, Dr.
Lauren Debakaroff.
And today we have a specialguest, Rachel Hayon, a good
friend of mine, who does lots ofstuff.
Rachel, tell us what you do.
SPEAKER_02 (00:32):
Thanks for having me on, Lauren.
So my name's Rachel.
The name of my company is SecondBrain Health.
I am a registered nurse and I doeverything from health coaching
to balance board training toutilizing a therapy called MNRI.
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
So I met Rachel many years ago and we're we reunited
randomly, and it was a greatreunion, and I learned a lot
about what she does.
And I wanted to bring Rachel ontoday because I feel like what
she does is very important to doin conjunction with what I do.
(01:07):
So as you know, Rachel is on apodiatrist, and I see a lot of
foot problems, and there's justsome people that don't heal from
anything.
Um, if they have an injury or umchronic pain or something like
that, there's something going onin their level of health that's
(01:29):
not letting their body repairitself, either it's the DNA
repair or their age.
And I find that a lot of it hasto do with their actual
well-being.
And I know that you're alifestyle coach as well.
And we talked a little, wealways chit-chat about what you
do.
You've actually helped me in thepast.
(01:50):
Um, you still are.
And uh, how do you think thatlike how do you incorporate what
you do when someone comes to youwith a pro like?
I feel like everybody comes toyou when there's just something
that they can't figure out, andyou find out like um on a deeper
(02:10):
level where their health comesin.
How do you feel like itincorporates to people with
different pains and aches aroundtheir body?
SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
Well, you know, it's a good question, Lauren.
And yes, everybody ends upcoming when they have a problem,
right?
Not usually preventatively.
So the first thing that I do islook to see what somebody is
eating, how are they sleeping,are they taking supplements?
If so, what are they?
Um, but a lot of what we can dofor our health is in our own
(02:42):
hands in terms of proper foodchoices, which is still very
tricky today given what's on ourshelves.
So a lot of times people don'tknow what the proper thing is to
eat, and that in itself is aneducation process.
Um starting with that will leadto better results with any type
of therapy, or if somebody comesto you with an injury and
(03:04):
they're inflamed, um, you can doas much as you can do.
Obviously, you're trying yourbest, but they have to do their
part in terms of propernutrition, uh, proper
supplementation.
And a big one that people don'ttalk about very often is
detoxification of the body.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Right, which is I think I mentioned it briefly on
some of my other podcasts thatyou know, today we live in,
especially in America, there'sjust like our food is not
nutrient-rich.
So you kind of have to, becauseof the soil, and it's like a big
topic that people aren't reallyaware of, and I feel like that's
(03:43):
a really big part of DNA repair.
Like, I think you and I have amutual patient.
We actually have talked aboutthis person recently, and uh he
there's nothing I I did hissurgery and every type of
therapy I've sent him to likeevery therapist and every
adjunct I can I can think of,and every MRI came back that
(04:09):
there's nothing wrong with hisfoot, and I was like, all right,
it's all in his head, and youcame in and you helped him a
little bit, and it was like umyou mentioned that it was just a
response to the trauma heexperienced from you know having
foot pain up until he finallymet me and I physically fixed
his issue, right?
So that's when like I think yourI think the MNRI helped him a
(04:33):
lot, and it's it's veryinteresting how people there's
like there's like a combinationof how people process their
pain, and there's also liketheir physical health on how
their body heals, and right alot of people have like let's
say you're 40 years old, butyour biologic age is 50, and
it's because of the food that weeat, and it's because of our
(04:56):
level of health, right?
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
Sure, absolutely, absolutely.
I mean somebody could be likeyou said, 40 years old, but uh
physically seem or feel mucholder.
And in the case of the clientthat you're referring to, poor
guy has been in pain for such along time, and he did say that
you really did try to help himwith everything, and he was
(05:20):
always baffled that things kepton coming back clear.
Um, but he wasn't necessarilyeating the best that he possibly
could, and because I think ofthe the trauma that he was in,
it was hard for him to get youknow into that.
So part of MNRI therapy ishelping to release the trauma
that the body holds.
(05:41):
Um and uh and we were talkingalso about how he could make
better food choices and whatsupplements he could take to
help reduce inflammation.
And in his case, probably a lotof the clients that you see, or
patients that you see, um, ifthey've been on meds for a long
time, if they've been onpharmaceuticals for a long time,
(06:01):
uh in all likelihood their bodyisn't clearing it properly.
And that means that they need todo things in order to help
clear.
And there are some supplementsthat you and I have talked
about, um, but there are otherthings that you can do on your
own, whether it's, you know,exercise is a great detox
because you're sweating, goinginto a sauna, um, going into a
hot bath, you know, any of thesethings will help to remove the
(06:24):
toxins that you have loaded inyour body.
And people always ask, you know,my grandparents didn't have to
do that, but they weren'tdealing with the amount of toxin
exposure that we are today.
SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
Correct.
Correct.
I I get that a lot on my ownpersonal issues as well.
It's hard for me to accept it,but it's the reality, and
there's uh there's a lot we cando about it with the help of
someone like you.
Um it's it's it's veryinteresting.
Like if I have a patient, let'ssay with a chronic plantar
(06:58):
fasciitis, so the most commoncause of them continually having
the issue is because they'reconstantly straining their heel,
right?
But then there are certainpoints that I I do admit to
them, like, listen, you're obeseand it doesn't matter how much I
(07:20):
immobilize you and how muchfancy regenerative medicine I
use on you, you have a constantstrain on your foot from the
weight.
So it's very hard for them tolike admit it to themselves.
And you know, I on the lastpodcast, me and Jeremy were
talking about chronic pain, andit's just like your body can't
(07:41):
recover from that if you'reconstantly straining the same
area.
And right you can physicaltherapy and get all the steroid
injections and all the stem cellinjections and all the laser,
but if there's 400 pounds onthat foot, it's not going to get
better, and and that's also partof the repair.
SPEAKER_02 (07:59):
Right.
And it's also that people don'trealize that fat cells
themselves are inflammatory.
So in addition to the physicalweight, they're inflammatory fat
cells.
Uh fat cells release somethingcalled cytokines.
Cytokines are inflammatorymolecules.
So just the fact that somebodyis carrying excess fat on their
(08:19):
body means that they'reconstantly in a state of
inflammation.
Um, incidentally, fat cells alsohouse toxins, it's our body's
way of keeping us safe.
So the larger somebody is, inall likelihood, the more toxins
they're carrying around andtheir body can't get rid of
them.
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
I once heard I once heard something about vitamin D
that even though we technicallyhave a lot of vitamin D in our
diets and things like that, thatwe don't release it into our
body because it gets stored inthe fat cells.
And once you lose the fat, itgets released into your
bloodstream.
SPEAKER_02 (08:55):
Correct.
And you also have to look atwhat type of vitamins you're
you're getting.
Um, meaning a lot of foods noware fortified with different
vitamins.
Those vitamins are synthetic.
So because they are synthetic,the body oftentimes cannot
actually process them.
In fact, it can poison them.
It's it's it's a problem, andand people don't realize that
(09:17):
and don't know any better.
So a lot of the breads andcereals and pastas, they are
fortified, um, which can makeweight loss harder, which can
make healing harder.
It's better to eat foods thatare fortified and then buy good
quality supplements.
And um, again, that's somethingwhere people think or feel, like
you said, that the soil is notas nutrient-dense as it used to
(09:41):
be.
Um, that's one, but two, a lotof the toxins that we're exposed
to, a lot of the things that arein our environment can actually
leach vitamins and minerals fromour system, and that makes it
harder to heal as well.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Like what?
Can you give some examples?
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
Of course, folic acid.
Folic acid is a great onebecause folic acid is in
everything.
Um, pregnant women are told totake folic acid, um, but it's in
a synthetic form of a B vitamin,and oftentimes you can't convert
that properly.
So it actually blocks a receptorin your body for the right type
(10:17):
of B cell or B vitamin, excuseme.
Um, and that can lead to notjust difficulty with detoxing,
it can lead to a deficiency inthe vitamin you think you're
getting.
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
Do you um do you see a lot of patients with like
chronic extremity pain?
Like foot pain, leg pain.
SPEAKER_02 (10:39):
Well, you know, anybody you refer to me most
likely has that.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
Some sort of these, I bet you people with like a bad
diet, they have tired feet andthen things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
Because again, they're inflamed.
So whether it's tired feet ortired legs, if you're not moving
and not getting things out ofyour system, in all likelihood
you feel more pain, moreexhaustion.
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
Right.
Can you expand more on how MNRIworks?
Because I know you've done it tome, and I still don't understand
how it works, but it does work.
Um I will tell you a personalstory.
I clench really badly, um, andit's from this subconscious
anxiety that I have.
I'm always worried, and I clencha lot, and I've grind ground my
(11:30):
teeth to nothing, and I've triednight guard night guards are
protecting my teeth, but I stillcan't stop the clench.
And I tried TMJ therapy, I triedmassage, I went to
chiropractors, and like thisthis muscle is really, really
tight.
And then with Rachel's help, Ihave been waking up with loose
(11:52):
jaws.
And if you can just expand onwhat the MNRI means, as in like
um, like I know it's activatingthe dormant reflexes, but can
you just expand on how it'ssupposed to work or what people
can expect from an MNRI sessionand how many sessions do people
(12:13):
typically need, and things likethat?
SPEAKER_02 (12:15):
Right.
Well, it's you know, I'm gladyou draw us feeling better.
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
Yes, it's great.
SPEAKER_02 (12:21):
Um so MNRI was developed by Svetlana Mascatoba.
Um, and MRI is Mascatobaneurosensory motor uh
integration, which is reallylong, which is why it's easier
just to say MNRI.
Uh at first glance, and Laurencan vouch for this, it just
looks like a massage.
It doesn't look like anybody isdoing anything to you.
(12:42):
Um, protocols work from wakingup your skin receptors, uh,
which is something that I'vedone, and that can calm down the
central nervous system.
Um, one of the main componentsof, and and that is what MNRI is
about.
It's calming down the centralnervous system in different
ways.
Okay, in different ways.
So when we talk about primaryreflexes, we all are born with
(13:06):
reflexes.
And the one that I I likereferring to because I think
it's the easiest we can allrelate to it, is if a baby grabs
your finger, are they actuallygrabbing your finger?
No, they're not.
It's a reflex.
They're supposed to grab yourfinger, and that movement of
knowing how to protectthemselves by grabbing on is a
(13:29):
precursor to being able toprotect themselves later on.
Like there's another reflexthat's called hand supporting,
where if you are fallingforward, what do you do?
Or what should you do?
You should put your hands out infront of you and hold yourself
before you fall, right?
But some people don't have thatreflex.
Um, I know because I have a kidwho didn't have that reflex, and
(13:53):
she would fall flat on her face.
SPEAKER_00 (13:54):
So um, how does that how do we how how does someone
typically lose that reflex thatthey're supposed to lose?
SPEAKER_02 (14:01):
Traumas, typically traumas.
Um, either either somethinghappened to them um in life or
they didn't develop, you know,in the proper way for whatever
reason.
We're not always going to knowwhy unless it's an obvious like
there was an accident or therewas a birth trauma, um, or you
know, it could be as simple assomebody falling on the tush,
(14:22):
and that could throw them out ofthe proper uh out of the proper
sequence.
And these reflexes, thesemovements our body makes relate
to how our brain um processesthings and how it develops.
So we develop from the brainstemup.
So we start here and we come uphere, and that's how we're
(14:44):
supposed to.
And the movements that we makecan influence the way our brain
functions.
So M and RI can obviously, likeyou know, Lauren said, it would
help loosen up her jaw, right?
Um, but hopefully also help takeaway some of the tension and
anxiety that she was feeling.
And when anybody feels that, youknow, tension and anxiety, what
have you, worry, it it takesaway from how much you can
(15:07):
accomplish in life becauseyou're worried.
Oh, you clenched it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
I think you told me you clenched too.
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
I I did.
I did a lot worse before.
Um, I did a lot worse before.
unknown (15:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:18):
But doing different things has helped tremendously,
and it's a problem a lot ofpeople have, yeah, you know,
unfortunately.
Um, but M and RI can help witheverything from relaxation to
help with learning disorders tohelp with with anxiety to help
with people who are, you know,or children who were have
behavioral difficulties.
And um, like one little boy thatI am still seeing, but after
(15:42):
about 10 sessions, he hisreading improved dramatically,
and that was a side effect,meaning his mom brought him
because he was having behavioralissues in school, and then all
of a sudden he just didn't stopreading.
And she's like, I I don't getwhat you did, but it worked.
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
(16:03):
It's pretty cool.
It it helps connect left-rightbrain, it helps connect your
brain so it works better.
Um, people don't correlate thattouching the body changes the
brain, but it does.
SPEAKER_00 (16:14):
Yeah, it's it's a very soothing session.
She just touches you in certainspots with certain movements,
and it's very relaxing.
And I've definitely felt adifference, and I can say that I
maybe I don't feel I don't wakeup with a painful jaw as much as
(16:36):
I used to, and it's a lot veryhelpful.
Now, how can we relate this tomy patients, Rachel?
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
There's a lot of reflexes that have to do with
your feet.
There's a ton of them.
There's a ton of them.
Um, so if if some trauma hashappened to the foot, it's very
possible that the feet are notlaying in the proper position as
they should.
And with MNRI, you can gentlymanipulate things back to where
(17:04):
they should be.
You know, I mean, I had it doneto me where a therapist worked
on my feet and my feet wereconstantly falling out to the
side.
And God bless her, after acouple of sessions, my feet were
straight up like this, which iswhere they're supposed to be
anatomically.
Is when you're laying on yourback, your feet should be
sitting, stand, you know,pointing to the ceiling.
Um, and when she did that, I cansay for myself, uh, my hips
(17:27):
stopped hurting.
I I felt like my muscles werecoordinating better in one of my
legs.
Um, and uh, and again, it'sgentle manipulation that I do.
SPEAKER_00 (17:38):
Fascinating.
Even me, I actually had atendonitis on my left ankle,
guys.
Yes, the podiatrist hadtendonitis, and I couldn't
figure out why it kept comingback.
I would I would immobilize, Iwould, you know, do whatever I
do to all my patients when itcomes to a tendonitis of the
ankle.
So I would do that, I would dothe same treatment that I do to
(18:01):
everybody else.
I felt better, then it cameback.
Did the same thing again, feltbetter, came back, and then I'm
like, I don't know why my mytendonitis keeps recurring.
And I'm like, and then it'sfunny, I actually did a lot of
research and I thought maybe Ihad an anatomic misalignment.
I was like, I don't know,sometimes I measure patients
(18:24):
with limb length discrepancy,they have arthritis or they had
a knee replacement, um, and thenall of a sudden their left leg
or their right leg is a littleshorter than the other, and then
I measured myself to be even.
So why, why?
And then all of a sudden my hipsstarted hurting, my knees
started, why am I and then it'sfunny?
(18:45):
I think I was talking to youabout it, and I was talking to a
chiropractor, and I actuallyspoke to like a therapist about
it, and it seems like because ofall the anxiety I've had in the
past couple of months, you know,being a business owner and
everything, um, it seems that Iwas clenching the left side of
my body a lot.
So even though I wasn'tanatomically short, I was still
(19:09):
stressing one side of my bodyover the other.
And then that manifestation wastendonitis in my foot.
Again, most people don't talkabout this stuff because it's
not very common, but there arethings that definitely can
happen to someone that causestheir pain that they're not
aware of.
And even I saw it on myself.
(19:30):
I was like, how come mytendonitis, like this is what I
treat?
I'm a doctor.
Like, why is it my tendonitisbook?
I've done everything in thebook.
And and and and and just by likeseeing that I do have like my
inner anxiety, it does affect mymuscle tension, like now it's
affecting my leg and my my back.
(19:52):
So I was like, oh wow, I reallyhave to fix that.
And then with MNRI, with youknow, breathing exercises, and I
think some of your yourmovements I've been doing have
been really helping, and youknow, I don't really have the
pain anymore like I used to.
Once in a while, once in a whileit acts up, but uh it's not
(20:13):
nearly as bad as it used to be.
And you know, when it when itacts up, it's either had a
little anxiety, but not becauseI was wearing the wrong shoe or
not um you know aligning my footproperly.
And uh it's it's very you know,but you're you're finding ways
to help yourself, and that's whythat's why people like you exist
(20:35):
when you know not everything isin a textbook, not everything is
in uh you don't learn everythingin med school, like most of what
I've learned is from experiencewith patients, and I see what
works, and even like I said,like the obese patient that
doesn't cure their their footpain, they have to lose weight,
(20:56):
and lifestyle is very important,and that's where you come in.
So that is very important torepair yourself and don't spend
all your, even though I have allthis fancy regenerative medicine
treatment.
You always I always like to getto the root of the issue, you
know, before I treat thesymptom.
Like, sure, I can provide yourrelief of pain with a pill or or
(21:19):
whatever, but I always tell mypatients, what's the root of the
problem?
The root of the problem isyou're not walking, you're
tight, uh, you don't exercise,and you're wearing the wrong
shoes.
And all that in combinationcauses your foot issue.
SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
Right, right.
And it is always a combination,right?
It's never really one littlething that happened, you know,
and with you know, with theguidance from you in terms of
that, and like you said, if theyneed the regenerative medicine
piece, then you'll provide.
Otherwise, it's really nice tohear that a doctor is trying to
find another way to do it, youknow, lifestyle changes.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And with that, Rachel, thank youso much for coming on to my
podcast.
I think thank you for having me.
I think everybody's getting verywell informed that it's not, it
doesn't just end with a pill anduh with shots.
There's always something elsethat you could do to help your
body repair.
(22:15):
And if you guys ever want toreach out to Rachel, uh she is
where can we find you, Rachel?
SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
You can find me on Instagram under Second Brain
Health.
And if you're in Dr.
Debakarov's office, I think shehas some of my business cards.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
I do.
All right, guys, it was a greatshow.
See you next time.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
Thank you for listening to the LMD Podiatry
Podcast.
For more information, visitLMDPodiatry dot com.
That's LMD P-O-D-I-A-T-R-Y dotcom.
Or call nine five four six eightzero seven one three three.
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