EXPERIENCE 179 | Welcome to Party Land! Building Brands and Making Advertising More Fun (and Effective) with Matt Heath, Founder and Chief Creative at Party Land - The LoCo Experience

Episode Transcript
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(00:41):
I met Matt Heath at our LocoSocial at Chiba Hut in April,
where he had just finished upmeeting with Mark Torres,
Chiba's CEO, and my guest onExperience episode number 139.
We had an awesome and aninteresting conversation, which
led to a Zoom and then tobooking this podcast.
And I look forward to the daywhen Loco Think Tank can hire
his creative team to deliver aclever campaign as their stuff

(01:01):
is just so fun.
Matt founded Partyland in theLos Angeles area in 2018 and
moved the headquarters office toFort Collins for a change of
scenery not long into the COVIDlockdowns of 2020 and beyond.
He has had an incredible careerjourney working with some of the
fastest growing and mostinnovative marketing agencies in
the industry and leadingcampaigns for Arby's, We Got the
Meats, Buffalo Wild Wings, andNetflix, among others.

(01:25):
His first big client afterlaunching Partyland was Liquid
Death, and if you've noticedthat Men's Warehouse is moving
back into cultural relevance,That has Matt's fingerprints on
it, too.
And, Matt's earlier chapters oflife were no less incredible.
His grandfather and family wereeffectively marijuana kingpins
of Eastern Oregon, with multiplegrow ops, sophisticated
processing, and a significantdealer network, and many family

(01:49):
members got busted by the DEAduring his teenage years.
Going to grade school with grownup secrets was emotionally
challenging and Matt struggledfor years before finding a
creative outlet in music,initially jazz, and then punk.
He tried to sign up for the AirForce when he was 17 to escape
his town and home life, but hisparents wouldn't sign the
paperwork, and that launched himon a 10 year professional music

(02:10):
journey.
A music festival in Europeallowed the band to see a window
into the next level of success,and they decided they didn't
want it, and his advertisingcareer began.
Warning, this episode is a worldclass ADHD squirrel chase with a
pair of goose, and you canbasically hear us becoming
friends during thisconversation.
So please join me in getting toknow the founder and chief

(02:30):
creative at Partyland, MattHeath, on a local experience.

(03:12):
welcome back to the LocoExperience podcast.
My guest today is Matt Heath.
I spaced it for a half moment.
Let's start over.
Welcome back to the LocoExperience Podcast.
I'm honored today to be joinedby Matt Heath.
And Matt is the founder andchief creative over at
Partyland.
Hello.
So, uh, yeah, thanks for beinghere, Matt.

(03:32):
Of course.
Thanks for having me.
Um, You know, I always just liketo start off with a, a ground
setting.
Uh, what is Partyland?
It could be anything, really.
It sounds like a, like a funhouse or a fun center kind of
thing.
Mini golf.
Yeah.
I know it is not.
Not yet.
It could be.
Future expansions.
Yeah, there you go.
I think I'm taking notes.

(03:54):
Um, Partyland is a, uh, is anadvertising agency.
Uh, full service.
Um, we are based in Los Angelesand then here in, uh, Fort
Collins.
Because you moved here.
Yeah.
I was one of those, uh, I hopethat everyone will keep
listening after I say that Imoved here in 2020.
A COVID escapee.

(04:15):
Yeah.
A little bit.
It happened.
I mean, I forget what was the,wasn't it something like from
Portland and Seattle and partsof California, the U Hauls were
like eight times as expensive toleave as they were to get there.
Like if you would bring them a UHaul, they would pay you because
they needed to sell it tosomebody that really wanted to
leave.
All my stuff sat in, um.

(04:36):
storage for three months.
So I got here, had a house.
Yeah, I got a house and honestlyI had to buy things for my
house.
My house was, it was completelyempty.
It looked like it was staged tosell.
Uh, and it took a very long timefor everything to get here.
Cause I just couldn't findanybody to, uh, to, you know,
fill up the truck at the, at thetransfer station.

(04:58):
Cause they were just too busy.
Heavy volume, whatever.
The other was just so much.
And there was also just a lackof people interested in, you
know, in, uh, in, in, in doingthat kind of stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, they've sent everybodynice debit cards and stuff and
bypass rent and all that.
So I, I deterred you.
Um, so part, so tell me thedifference between advertising
and marketing.

(05:21):
Uh, you know, I, I really don'tlike if you, like, if you pull
out, like there's really notlike advertising is a lot of
what I think is more of anindustry, industry term these
days.
You know, so the advertisingindustry itself.
So those of us that are on thisside of it, right, uh, where,
where the agencies, where thepeople, you know, helping the
brands, um, we tend to think ofourselves more as advertisers or

(05:43):
we'll talk about it like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
And then the people that arekind of more in the, uh, you
know, the brand side, you know,the CMOs, the marketing
directors, all those kinds ofthings.
I think just by way of, um, youknow, tradition, it's referred
to as marketing a little bitbecause those that's tends to be
their title, right?
Chief marketing officer.
Right.
Right.

(06:03):
You know, um, And marketing, Ithink, is a little bit more all
encompassing, uh, thanadvertising.
Uh, so I think, uh, Advertisingis kind of maybe more
specifically the outreach, thething that touches your eyes and
it should reinforce the brandthat the marketing department
created.
Yeah.
You know, and, and, and I'll be,and I'll be honest, like I might
be talking out my ass here.
Like there, can I say yes onthis?

(06:25):
Oh fuck.
Yeah.
Nice.
Uh, anything you want.
Oh man.
What if we had, let's, let'sstart the counter.
Um, So, you know, that's myinterpretation.
I'm sure somebody who's probablya little bit more, uh,
scholarly, uh, about, uh,marketing and, uh, you know,
it's, uh, sub version ofadvertising would probably is
probably over there, you know,writing a hotly written note to

(06:48):
me on LinkedIn.
If we had a lot of listeners orsomething, you idiot, you call
yourself a marketer, nay, anadvertiser.
So, yeah.
So.
So what do you do?
Like, for who?
Well, um, okay.
So as describe your team alittle bit, yeah, yeah, sure,
sure.
I'll yeah.
Okay.
Um, so party land, um, uh, as Imentioned earlier, full service

(07:10):
agency, uh, we pretty much doeverything except for the actual
production.
So, you know, Getting thecameras out, getting the crew
together, putting the lights up,building the set, doing the
casting, like all that stuffhappens.
We, we tend to go out, contractout for that.
Yeah.
We have vendors that do that.
Okay.
Shout out to one of myfavorites, uh, the goondocs.
Okay.
Uh, that's how I get paid.

(07:31):
Right.
Sub goondocs.
And so like you would write ascript for a commercial.
Correct.
Maybe.
Yeah.
And have kind of the design butsomebody else would like hire
the actors and secure the spaceand.
In a way.
Okay.
So, so we.
And that, and that, the otherthing we don't do is media
buying.
Right.
So, you know, you see abillboard and it usually says
clear channel or, yeah.

(07:52):
We don't buy that stuff now wecan, uh, it's just, it's so
complicated and it really is,uh, you know, from like a, a
national, if not global level,all the way down to a hyper
local level, you know, you kindof have to know what you're
doing there and it depends onthe client and it just is a
little bit.
It's better done by the peoplewho are smarter than I am, so.

(08:12):
But you can't really add valuenecessarily, right?
Cause you gotta take a cut everytime you sell a billboard or
arrange it.
Yeah, they usually get their15%.
I mean, from a financialperspective, it is wise to have
a media, a media thing.
Yes, we do that.
But I, I've never been the typeof person to, uh, you know, try
to finagle more dollars out ofour clients, you know, by way of
over promising and claiming tobe, you know, something that

(08:35):
we're not.
And we're just, we're not mediabuyers.
Uh, it's a, that's a verydifficult thing to do.
And there's people out there whodo it awesome.
So we have, but we have, uh, uh,vendors that we work with, uh,
closely to do that.
Um, But the way we, what we do,uh, so a client.
Has a problem that they needsolved.
It's usually like, Hey, I needpeople to know about this

(08:56):
fucking thing that we make.
Right.
Um, Whether that be a hamburgeror a pair of shoes or, uh, you
know, a can of water, uh, theyfind us by way of, you know, You
know any different kinds ofthings sometimes you've heard
about us sometimes, you knowreferral from one of your past
clients Yeah, yeah that there'sthat.
Yeah a lot of times also Youknow, they find us because they

(09:17):
like the work that we do and sothey'll track it back And
they'll just be like, hey, Ireally love this thing You guys
did for the habit burger or youknow for Dave's hot chicken or
whatever and then they'll saylike can you do the same?
Thing for us.
Yeah, same but different Theanswer is always yes, of course.
Um, so then, uh, And eithernational brands oftentimes or
regional brands sometimes.

(09:37):
So we've, uh, right now we'recurrently, uh, working with
men's warehouse.
Okay.
Um, a lot of fun.
I mean, we can get to thislater.
Um, I love resurrecting brands.
Uh, we call it, we call themlatent icons.
Yeah.
It's my word.
It's another person's just like,yeah, it's not washed up on its
way back.
Yeah.

(09:57):
Right.
Well, there's these, there'sthese brands that, um, that
everyone knows of, but doesn'tthink about when it's time to go
and, you know, do the thing whenyou said lens warehouse, I'm
going to, I heard in my, head.
You're going to love the way youlook.
That was a good advertisement.
That is great.
They also had the benefit ofdoing that ad campaign for like
20 years or something like that.
So there's a reason it sticks inour head, but their brands that,

(10:19):
uh, you, you know, everyone hasa, everyone knows about, but
they just, they just don't, uh,you know, aren't necessarily
thinking about or not in lovewith the brand.
Right.
So, yeah, they fall in favor insome places.
Yeah.
But there is some, you know,some place in their brain where
that brand exists.
Um, Arby's was another one.
Like Subway is ripe foropportunity there.
You know, they would say not,but I, I would argue with them

(10:40):
that I'm sure they're doing,they're doing a wonderful job.
Uh, no, but Arby's was anotherone.
I was the creative director, um,on the, we have the meats
campaign.
So we launched that campaign.
I was there for the first twoand a half years of that.
That changed their brand.
I suspect.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
100%.
I mean, it seemed like it to mefrom an outsider looking in that
all of a sudden Arby's was notan afterthought for lunch or

(11:02):
whatever, or yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
They became something that was,um, I mean, it was, that was on
purpose, right?
Saying we have the meats.
Uh, it was a way for, you know,the brand to not, uh, in the
strategy, there was a reallyinteresting slide where it was
like, if you'd look at a crosssection of a brain and then just
give, you know, the real estate,you know, to, uh, you know, to,

(11:25):
to all the different kinds offood that you can go out and get
for lunch, right.
You can get burgers, you can getpizza, yeah, right.
Exactly.
And a very small portion of thatwas roast beef because that's
what they were known for.
I called it the roast beefproblem.
Um, and so nobody sits there atlunch, lunchtime, and they're
just like, you know, I'd reallygo for is a nice roast beef
sandwich, but you wouldn't say,ah, I feel like burgers or, and

(11:47):
you know what, I'm going to geta salad.
I want some meat, but you willsay meat.
And so if we can stand for meat,which we could, or the brand
could at least, um, uh, becausethey had, they had deli quality.
that they had, they had upgradedtheir whole, you know, uh,
selection of meats, the, the,the breadth of them and also the
quality.
Uh, so that was new news.
And so being able to say, wehave the meats, uh, uh, uh,

(12:10):
tagline coined by, uh, uh, my,the C, uh, chief creative
officer at the time, Jeff Kling.
Um, it was, it was brilliant.
I mean, it was a strategy meets,uh, Creative yeah, and the
executions were flawlessultimately psychology, right?
Yeah, exactly like that's whatyou're trying to get to that end
Yeah reactor and then we justgot really good at it.

(12:31):
I mean the first few campaigns,you know, we're getting off the
ground But I mean, I think Iended up making 200 spots that
either ran or were test by youknow in the first two and a half
years there It was a lot.
It was very prolific campaign.
And so like a marketing agencyYou Especially today, oftentimes
they'll measure themselves bylike SEO, you know, how many

(12:51):
website visits they can help youincrease by and how many forms
they can have people fill out ofinterest forms and whatever,
right?
How many new likes they can geton your Facebook page.
How do you measure success in a,in a small firm advertising?
Just like that.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's, um, in the world ofmarketing, uh, we.

(13:13):
I have gotten to a point, Iguess it's always been like this
to a certain extent.
Um, but quantifying results, Icall it ROI, right?
Return on investment, uh, is, isincredibly important.
And it's certainly one of myfavorite things to track.
And that might seem weirdbecause most people are like, I
don't want to know about thisstuff.
I just want to know that I madesomething funny.
Uh, you don't get to makeanother funny thing if you

(13:34):
don't, Make the first thingeffective, right?
So at least you're done by fouror five.
So we, uh, so, so, you know,those, those results are
incredibly important to us.
Uh, and as a, as a comedyagency, and I think I've left
that part out where I'm in anagency that just does comedy.
Oh, just does.
Yeah.
Well, I thought you were knownfor it, but both.

(13:55):
Yeah.
And we, I really don't havefunny.
You don't take it on.
It's not interesting.
If to me, if it's not funny, uh,We can get into my background.
I'm sure at some point we will.
Yeah.
I mean, you're a very thoroughquestion asker, so I'm assuming,
sorry.
Making a lot of, I'm a squirrelchaser.
I'm a a world class squirrelchaser, is what I like to say.
Conversation derailer.
Oh, there we go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a tangential.

(14:17):
Yes.
Uh, me too.
I should get a t shirt.
The 10 gentle sounds a littlebit dirty.
Uh, but yeah, so, you know,those, those results are, are
crucially important to, uh, tothe, you know, not only the
brand, um, but mostly importantto the brand, but also whether
or not we get, uh, another shot.
I, we always say, um, you know,the, the first campaign isn't

(14:39):
our goal.
The second campaign is our goal,which holds us accountable for
making great work.
The first round where mostagencies, um, not most, I won't
say that, but many agencies outthere, uh, will take their
opportunity.
They'll kind of, you know, tryto get their awards work out
there or just, you know, dosomething they think is right.
Maybe it's a little off and, um,you know, then they, Maybe don't

(15:00):
do another campaign with that,with that brand.
And then they're off down theroad to work with somebody else.
But relationships are absolutelythe most important thing in our
agency, outside of the creativein that internal relationships,
external relationships.
So, uh, we've, we focus on thatpart first.
So talk to me about the, the,the business itself.
Cause you, you said you'retechnically the CEO too, uh, but

(15:23):
you like the chief creativefounder kind of guy.
Tell me who's your team.
Are they all.
Employees, you have contractors,uh, partners, um, and then kind
of what do they do?
Like, how does it, what's aclient journey look like?
Ooh, that's a good one.
Okay.
Well, I'll start at the tophere.
Um, Partyland, we have threepartners, uh, me, uh, Haley

(15:43):
Hunter.
Um, she is our chief operationsofficer.
So she oversees everythingfinance.
HR hiring, like, you know, justthe nuts and bolts of the stuff,
the stuff that I'm not smartenough to do.
Kind of the back of the house.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Um, and she's absolutelywonderful.
Uh, she makes people want to beon your team.
A hundred percent.
She's, she's the best part ofus.

(16:03):
She's so charming.
Uh, she's so smart.
Uh, and, and she loves thethings that I do.
I'm not great at like, uh, likePR, uh, you know, I, I tend to
like, want to go hide in thecorner and cover up and maybe
cry a little bit.
Um, maybe throw up.
We don't know.
Uh, but she's just, she's, shewould have been as likely to
join here if I hadn't met youkind of in the capacity.
A hundred percent.

(16:24):
Yeah.
Out in the community moresometimes.
Yep.
Yep.
Absolutely.
So she's, You know, she's a partof all that kind of stuff.
Uh, and people just like hermore.
I'm just patently disliked.
I like weird people.
So, you know, there you go.
Extra points for you.
Um, we're going to, we're goingto be okay.
It's going to be okay.
I was talking to myself.
I know I was talking to me andthose of us inside my head.
I was talking to the imaginary.
You just, How's he doing?

(16:47):
Is he all right?
He's all right.
He's hanging in there.
All right.
Cool.
Uh, we'll check on him later.
Um, whiskey.
Yeah, there you go.
Uh, so that's Haley.
She does all the, all the smartprison stuff.
Andy, uh, Silva is our managingdirector.
Also one of the partners.
Um, Haley and I founded thecompany and he brought, it came
in about a year and a half, twoyears in, um, uh, in 2021.

(17:11):
So I guess it would be almostthree years, but he came in
right there when COVID was, youknow, still hitting pretty hard.
Um, and, um, he's the managingdirector, as I, as I said, I
hope I said that I'll repeat it.
Um, and he does everythingaccount side.
So he oversees, um, you know,client relationships.

(17:31):
He oversees his team of accountpeople and account people, a lot
of project management as well.
Kind of.
Yeah.
Like, um, you know, you're.
Yeah, blue team, red team,whatever.
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, yeah.
He's definitely the, thetactician of the, of the agency
in that way.
Um, and since we're on topic ofAndy, uh, and by the way, he's,
he's wonderful.
He's a Kiwi.
He's, uh, I always give him ahard time.

(17:53):
They talk funny.
It's fun to listen to him.
I know.
I have a really bad joke.
Can you impression him for me?
Uh, nor, oh, nor.
Uh, nor.
I like to say that Andy has aspeech impediment and then he
starts talking and they're likewait a minute, he's just from,
uh, somewhere else.
A terrible, terrible joke.
Can I tell a terrible storyabout that?
Please do.

(18:13):
I met a pair of twins, um, thattalked kind of funny, a little
bit like Kiwis or something likethat.
Um, and, um, And they sharedwith me instead that, uh, you
know, thanks for asking, but weactually had twin language, like
they had developed a speciallanguage that only the two of
them.
And so that when they went toschool, they could barely

(18:35):
communicate and they had spentyears in like therapy and speech
rehab and stuff.
I'm like, Oh, I love that.
That is, it was fascinating.
Like they're super bright gals,both in real estate in town
here.
And, um, and I was like, well,that's really cool.
And, you know, Don't always haveto ask questions, Kurt.
But it was cool.
They were very open minded aboutit or whatever, but I love that.

(18:58):
Anyway, I digress.
Yeah, that stuff like that, thatis so, like, uh I mean, in a way
it's like we all have a versionof that, right?
Whether, whether we're two twinsor we're people inside of a, you
know, specific, you know, uh,category of, of, of career, it's
like, we've all got our weirdlittle lingo and, and in, in the
end it all feels like we're justtalking to ourselves.

(19:19):
Um, well, and for them it waslike developed almost in secret,
you know, when they were talkingto mom and dad, they could, but
most of their talking wasBetween the two of them.
I would love to hear what thatwas.
Right?
Especially because, yeah, right.
Just as a, just two of them.
Right.
As their own little invention.
Well, and thinking about that,like, how obvious that humanity
would develop so many differentlanguages if it can just kind of

(19:42):
spontaneously erupt in a pair oftwins.
Yeah.
In Kansas.
Or whatever.
Right.
Or it's like Jared, Tolkien,right?
Yeah, you know, like creatingElvish.
Right.
Similar situation.
Yeah, right.
Just pull that thing right outof, I mean, is that imagination
in Tolkien's case?
Or was that like ideas likesomehow almost supernaturally

(20:05):
implanted in his head?
Well, when I have to think aboutthose things when I talk to him
He tells me they have arelationship with him pull it
down from the collectiveunconscious where he exists now
No, I you know, I think as amusician and you know, I've
always been Dease at Atlanguages in fact, this is a

(20:27):
weird story when I was in highschool I grew up in the middle
of nowhere, uh, out in thislittle area called Pleasant Hill
in Oregon, a little farmingcommunity.
And I just, like, nobody left.
Like, you just don't, you justdon't leave.
I'm from North Dakota and it waskind of the same.
Yeah, right.
So if you left, they were justlike, what's wrong with you?
Well, and if you didn't comeback because you're like, oh,

(20:47):
it's a big world out there.
And it was just like, he justloves that city.
He's a city.
Uh, look at him.
Uh, so then I, uh, but, but Iwas, I was just like, I don't
know how I'm going to get.
Out of this, you know, thislife.
Uh, and so I was like, I had a,the, the great idea of, uh, at
17 years old just being like,you know what I'll do?
I'll just join the Air Force.

(21:08):
Oh, that'll get me outta here.
Heck yeah.
Uh, so I did, I went and I, um,I took the, uh, I think it was
called the asvab, and I scoredso high and sound like I'm just
being super self-congratulatory,and don't spread your arm.
Yeah, exactly.
Uh, no, but I did, I I scoredreally high in the link, uh, in
the language part of the test.
Mm-Hmm.
uh, and.

(21:28):
Linguistics.
I think they called it.
Uh, and, uh, they offered me ajob in the CIA.
Oh, wow.
Uh, as a over in Iraq orsomething, it was to learn, um,
Arabic.
Right.
And they were like, that's goingto be your job.
You're going to work with thesecret service and learn this.
And I was like, Oh man, thatsounds awesome.
So when I told my mom and dad,I'm like, guess what?
I'm kick ass.

(21:49):
Uh, and I'm out.
And they're like, No, you'renot.
You're 17 and we're not signing,you're staying here.
Uh, of course it wasn't thatinsidious, but they did not
sign.
Right.
And I, and I didn't turn, uh, 18for several months.
And so I, uh, just waited for myopportunity.
And during that time, uh, Iended up starting a band, you

(22:10):
know, cause I've been a musicianforever and, and I was just
like, Oh, isn't that funny?
Maybe this band thing is alittle bit more fun than going
to a basic training.
Right, right.
Also, but for a twist of fate,like you'd have been, you know,
at least for four years, Iimagine, or eight years or
something signed up.
Yeah.
I mean, I probably, I mean, whoknows?
Might have been career.
Certainly would have never donea cool ad in your whole life.
Yeah.
Right.
Exactly.
Um, maybe I'd just be a, youknow, Nevermind.

(22:35):
We can, we can follow that down.
Thank you for your service.
You got to leave at five, just alittle after.
That's true.
Uh, so you were describing yourthree partners.
Is there any other kind of keyplayers?
Uh, absolutely.
Um, right now there's 11 of us.
Um, We like to keep it small Ithink are they here in
California?
Yeah.
Yeah, they're actually they'reall of the United States.

(22:56):
Okay, there's probably abouthalf of them are in Southern
California, so Andy Our creativedirector is there?
Our head of account managementis there our account manager?
One of the account supervisorsis there.
So all the, you know the peoplewho are doing that.
Yeah, yeah.
You know.
Well, and a lot of the clientsare out there a hundred.
Yep.
Absolutely.

(23:16):
Right.
And then our director of newbusiness, she's out, she lives
out in the desert.
Uh, in, uh, Palm.
Palm say, what is it called?
Palm Desert.
Joshua Desert, yeah.
Palm Desert JE Joshua Tree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then we've got people in SanFrancisco and, uh, one of the
guys just moved from Chicagodown to Austin.
We've got people in Connecticutand all, you know, it's just

(23:36):
every San Diego.
Are you the only ones?
Uh, in Fort Collins, Helio and Iare the only ones here.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
If you added people, would youtry to add them here, or more
not?
Because it's not really theindustry, like you don't have
that many national brands aroundhere with client reps and stuff.
Yeah, no, true, um, but I don'tknow, I kind of feel like, uh, I

(23:57):
mean, we absolutely love ithere.
Um, you know, Haley lives,you're not leaving, no, no,
Haley lives about 15 minutesaway from me.
I actually technically live inLoveland and there's a little
area called seven lakes.
Oh yeah.
So it's like the north end ofone of my former clients built
that subdivision.
I have some things to tell them.
Um, there are some questions forthem.

(24:17):
So about this HOA, uh, no, I'mjust kidding.
Um, But yeah, so she, and shelives in South Fort Collins.
We, you know, we all kind of,you know, revolve in this area.
And you don't have a real officeoffice where you can have staff
meetings and stuff to speak of.
We don't right now.
We did, we had one in Venice.
We had a, uh, well, we gotstarted, uh, when we first

(24:38):
launched the agency, it was a1974 GMC motor home, an orange.
It's beautiful.
Do you notice my ambulance outhere by the way?
I did, of course.
Have you been in it?
Oh yeah, that's right.
Um, uh, yeah.
I'm super impressed.
I was like, this guy's like me.
He thinks like me.
Um, he likes cool shit.
Uh, and, uh, so that was ourfirst agency or, you know, our
first office for the first year.
Okay.
And this is coming from likebefore the, before party land, I

(25:00):
was the executive creativedirector at an agency called
Chiat Day in Los Angeles.
Right.
And like corner officeoverlooking downtown, uh, well,
sort of, but yeah, I mean, itwas definitely like a massive
Costco size building and youknow, what's cool, it was a
really well done one.
Uh, many years ago, they, they,the idea was kind of like
building a city within abuilding.

(25:20):
And so, you know, my office wasin like these weird yellow
stacks, it was like stacks ofoffices that you could access
through, you know, a series of,uh, You know, catwalks and, and,
and, and stairs and ladders.
Oh, interesting.
Like, and then like internalwindows more.
Yeah, exactly.
And so we were all kind offacing in towards this little,
you know, way.
And I was on the ground floorthere.
Um, and you know, it just feltlike a, like a zoo animal.

(25:44):
People would walk by and they'relike, and here's this, this
person's name is Matt.
And I was just like, just like,well, okay, uh, come on in.
Uh, just like you want to comein and have a drink.
Um, so, uh, but, but going fromthat, which was.
Uh, you know, a storied agency.
I mean, they'd done everythingfrom, you know, Apple's 1984 ad

(26:07):
campaign, you know, to YokieroTaco Bell to the, you know, the
great ABC work, you know, allthe great quotes about, you
know, comedy, you know, all thatkind of stuff.
I mean, they're just, they'vejust done.
One of your probably favoritefive ads, you know, is that
agency coming over to party landand just being like, all right,
let's do this.
Uh, and we were just like, whatdo we want to do?
And it was like, what was that?

(26:27):
Like, what did you like get in afight with the owner?
Were you just excited to do yourown thing?
Finally, had that been a dreamfor a while?
Like, what was it?
What was the spark that createdparty land?
Yeah, it was that.
It was, it was, um, it was, itwas less, sorry, I have to be
specific cause you said severaloptions.
It could be any one of those.
Yes, me and, me and Chiat andDay in a tag team.

(26:49):
It came to blows and I couldn'twork there anymore.
No, those geniuses are longgone.
Um, but they, uh, but no, itwas, it was less a reaction to
the situations that I'd been in.
Um, you know, the agencies thatI've worked at and it was more
of a, This just felt right.
Yeah, it felt right to, youknow, I, I, like I said, I've
mentioned a couple of times and,you know, been in a band, you

(27:10):
know, for, I was, you know, wegot signed to a record label
when I was 20 and in a way youare kind of your own boss and
right now there's like, you havemanager, but like they don't,
you know, depending on themanager, you can kind of, you
know, uh, but, but you're therevenue manager and you're kind
of the decider and you're alsothe creative, right?
So, um, what you say goes andthere's, it's a rare occasion

(27:32):
when someone's just like, uh,why don't we just, uh, take
another look at that bridge?
That's not really working forme.
Why don't we try that in themajor key?
Cause it's the minor key.
And I know that you like that.
It's, you know, a littledissonant, but like, let's not
do that.
Your audience doesn't likedissonance.
Right.
You know, uh, but you're, youknow, you make all the calls.
Like you write all the work, youknow, write all the songs, you
know, you and your bandmates,you know, you, uh, And you do

(27:55):
that for like 10 years orsomething.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, I mean, well, I grew upplaying music, so I was, I
started playing jazz.
Um, and then in high school, uh,you know, we did the whole, you
know, the whole jazz thing, and,and we were, I came from a very
small high school, but we were,One of those programs where we
would go and we would justdestroy people interesting It

(28:15):
was it was a school of like ajazz band.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like festival Yeah,and we'd go and they'd you know,
you'd win or not, you know, andyou know for a second third It
was just a you know, I had alike a gymnastics competition
right me like that but for jazzand no matter what man
everywhere we went we justfucking crushed and It was it
was my first You taste of, itfeels fun to win.

(28:39):
I, so two things come to mindand I'll, I'll get back to you,
but, um, and we'll come totasting notes too.
So three things will come tomind.
One, um, as a seventh grader, asa sixth grader, I was moved up
to playing the B squad in highschool basketball because our
school, like some kids gotminors and they didn't have
enough kids to feel a team.
And then in seventh grade, Iwas, uh, like literally the

(29:01):
backup point guard and.
On the varsity team.
Oh wow.
So I lettered in Bass HighSchool because our school was,
we had 50 kids, 7 through 12.
Oh wow.
So we could barely field a teamand, and I, I think my high
school basketball career, I went4 and 87 or something.
Yeah, right.
Um, but we had a bunch of smartkids and I was also part of the

(29:23):
academic Olympics team.
Nice.
So kind of a big glorifiedtrivia contest of school
relevant kind of things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we.
for a 50 person school, like wewere taking home first, second,
third places, but we took morefirst than anything else.
Yeah.
And, you know, I was kind of oneof the less smart kids on those
teams generally, but I got totag along.

(29:45):
Yeah, obviously.
Um, but yeah, it was, it wassuch an interesting thing.
And even just that experience ofbeing like, Oh, I'm pretty
smart.
You know, even though I grew upin this bohunk town and I was
kind of sure I was going toflunk out of college because
smart kids went to college, youknow, and I'm from this bohunk
town, you might have similarkind of perceptions.

(30:06):
And then you're, you know, aftera couple of years of fucking
off, you're like, Oh shit, I'mjust as smart as everybody else
here.
Right.
You're like, I, I, I, I at leastgot some points in the genetic,
you know, in the genetic pool.
Totally.
Yeah, lucked out.
In the draft.
Um, so, client journey.
Hmm.
I'm going to bring you all theway back there.
We'll, we'll catch back up onthe kind of journey of growth a
little bit.
Yeah, sure.
And the move to Fort Collins.

(30:26):
But, So, somebody contacts you,they get referred, whatever
manner.
Yeah.
And they're just like, hey,we've got a problem.
Uh, we're not connecting withthis demographic.
Yep.
Or something like that, and wewant something to be funny.
Yep.
Uh, comedy based, that brings usback into relevance.
Yeah, yeah, or, or, or, youknow, just, or they're a small

(30:46):
brand, like, um, For example,liquid death is one of our
clients, one of our foundingclients.
Awesome.
Uh, I mean, Mike, the CEO, uh,Mike, uh, Cesario, he, he and I
go way back and he, he's also,uh, friends with Haley.
Like, I mean, there's, uh, youknow, like hit Mike's brother.

(31:07):
Is married to Haley's bestfriend.
So there was a lot of, uh, youknow, like, you know,
friendliness and all that kindof stuff and, you know, history
there.
Um, but, uh, you know, they cameto us and they were just like,
Hey, we're launching this thing,you know, we need some help here
to get it off the ground.
Cause you know, we're a DTCbrand at this point, you know,
and we're about 5, 000 followersdeep on Instagram.

(31:27):
So it was very foundational, youknow, days.
Uh, and we were their first, uh,agency of record and did a lot
of their original, you know, um,you know, productions and ideas
and where the social, a lot oftheir social stuff.
Oh, you did.
That's what part of it.
So, so you do do that kind ofstuff too.
You take your creative outputand, but you're not like
commenting back and stuff likethat.

(31:47):
Yeah, we'll do that.
You will.
Okay.
So you're still, you're prettyinvolved.
So there is not as muchseparation between you and a
marketing agency as, you know,No, no, no, no.
We're one month thing.
No, we, we, uh, do you buildwebsites and stuff?
We don't do that.
That's, that's, that's prettyspecialized.
So you wouldn't do like SEOoptimization, things like that,
but no, I don't even know whatthat means.
no, just kidding.
No, I, I swear to God, I doknow.

(32:08):
No.
Um, we we're more, okay, so, sobasically I think this will be,
this will be helpful.
So, uh, a client comes to us andthey're like.
Yeah, let's not use liquiddeath.
'cause that's like part of yourphony story.
That was, yeah.
That, yeah, that and that's,well, I met you at Chief of Hut
Unique yesterday.
You talking to Chief of Hut, areyou working with them?
Uh, yeah, we're gonna be workingwith them.
Okay.
Yeah, we'll get to that too,mark.
And like, those guys are fuckinggreat, man, so They're awesome.
Yeah.
I love the seed a hundredpercent.

(32:29):
Yeah.
Uh, and they're so, I, they gotsuch a great brand.
I cannot wait to get my hands onit, man.
Like, we're gonna do such greatwork together.
It's, it's gonna be great.
Um.
But, um, yeah.
So a client will come to us andthey're like, Hey, we need some
help.
Whether that's like, you know,uh, awareness help.
Uh, and we need, uh, to talkabout this, you know, specific
new product that we're making orsometimes it's just like, Hey,

(32:52):
we, we just want to start, wejust want to hit the reset
button.
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, In the case of Arby's, forinstance, they were just like,
you know, ironically, one of therecent ad campaigns was I'm
thinking Arby's, but you know,no one was thinking Arby's.
And so they're like, how can we,how can we get back into, you
know, in people's brains?
So we, um, so they come to usand, you know, it'll start off

(33:14):
with some sort of strategic, youknow, understanding whether it's
a repositioning or justunderstanding the audience or
whatever it might be.
Right.
Uh, but basically we need tofigure out what the math is
before we can figure out whatthe creative is.
Okay.
If I don't understand theproblem intrinsically, uh, at
every, you know, like, likeevery single detail of the
problem.
Kind of like what the currentsituation is.

(33:35):
Yeah.
What do people want?
You know, what's, what's up withthe brand?
Where have they been?
Why is it things, why are thingsnot working?
How do we help them work alittle bit better?
You know, like those kinds ofthings.
Um, so.
You know, segmenting theaudience, like it can be, I
mean, you can get to like a 500page deck pretty quickly with
that.
So, I mean, that's, you know,quite a deep one.
Um, but you can also do it, youknow, pretty simply.
It could be a, you know, a 10page deck of, you know, sir.

(33:57):
Sure.
Oh, and before we, this time,uh, so we should give our
tasting notes from the, TheMakers Mark, uh, William
Oliver's special number fivebottle.
Yeah.
What do you think?
Uh, I thought it was great.
Uh, you were right after, uh, itsat in the glass for a little
bit, uh, it mellowed out.
Yeah.
The first sip was a little hot.
Yeah.
It was a little hot and thenyou're like, and then after that
it was, uh, quite, uh, sweet,but not cloying.

(34:20):
Yeah.
Uh, it's delicious and I, I,I'm, uh, happy to say that I
drink it more quickly than Ishould have.
Yeah.
We got, we're right on time.
But I'm so nervous.
I can tell.
I can tell.
So this is the, um, Axe and Oak,Axe and the Oak Distillery, uh,
Colorado Mountain BourbonWhiskey.

(34:42):
Where are they from?
Six years age, Colorado Springs.
Springs.
Nice.
Yeah.
So I hadn't, I've never had itbefore.
I, I mean, I've had it.
A little bit of obviously, butI'm smelling it.
I think it's, it's got kind ofcherry notes on it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you agree?
I don't know.
I haven't smelled it yet.

(35:03):
I sipped it.
I'm supposed to just smell it.
No, it's okay.
Yeah.
It really does.
Yeah.
Interestingly, I've got, uh, mykombucha batch that I just
harvested the other day.
I, I put about a two shots ofcherry juice in it and, uh, and
it does have kind of that littlebit of.
It's also a little pittiness inthere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's very earthy.
This is not as hot as I feared.

(35:26):
No, this is nice.
Really, this is pretty nice too.
Yeah, pretty chill.
I mean, it's, I don't trust likeyoung whiskey companies, you
know, like Stranahan's, youknow, that's going to be pretty
good, but really Stranahan's islike about as good as a 30
bottle of whiskey from somebodyelse because it's just not that
good yet.
Right.
Yeah.
They're getting there.

(35:47):
They're learning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gosh, you know what?
We, um, so I, uh, I did this adcampaign back in the day for a K
Swiss that used Kenny Powers.
From, uh, eastbound and down.
Okay.
To Danny mc, Danny McBride'scharacter.
Yep.
Yep.
Uh, and the president from Casewas, they ended up after the,
after that campaign, they endedup selling high, selling, high
uh, and he, he left and he's nowgot, got his fingers in all

(36:09):
kinds of different stuff.
Um, and he's wonderful man.
Um, David Nichols is his name,uh, and he, uh, is a investor
and you know, has something todo with, uh, a brand called
Kings County Distillery in NewYork.
Okay.
He took like early days partyland.
Cause we were, we wereconsidering doing a little bit
of work with them.

(36:29):
So he was working with thefounders at that point.
And he was just like, why don'tyou come out to New York and,
you know, give you the taste.
Oh my God.
Have you ever been on like areal deep, thorough taste
testing through a distillery?
I mean, rum distillery inBarbados, uh, is one.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm sorry, I'm just saying this.
It's okay.
Um, uh, but he took us on thistaste testing thing, and, I

(36:50):
mean, let's be completely clear,there was, I was, I don't
remember the end of it.
I learned quite a bit, and Iforgot most of it.
But, oh my god, it was sofucking good.
Like, the, the, the, I mean, itwas just, it was phenomenal.
It was one of my favoritethings.
Yeah, I have a lot of favoriteexperiences with alcohol, and
I've had plenty.
Um, but that was, that wasreally cool.
So shout out to Dave Nichols andeverything.
My wife at the end of the rumtour at Gray's, no, Mt.

(37:12):
Gay, Mt.
Gay Rummery in Barbados, uh, Jowas like, turns out I love rum!
Everybody knows when they've hadenough of it.
Straight up officially.
I'm a pirate now.
Right.
So, I don't think, So clientcomes to you, they've got this
problem.
You do some, some digging in.
Yeah, we do some digging in.
We get to know them.

(37:33):
We get to know the problem, getto know the audience.
I mean, there's, you know, it'spretty straightforward, you
know, from that perspective, youcharge for this.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Okay.
So before we start working withyou for us to dig in, it's going
to be 50 grand.
Oh, I just take all the money Ican get.
No, you got to cover your time alittle bit.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
I mean, and it's usually, youknow, wrapped into part of the,
you know, the overall, uh, youknow, uh, bid or whatever, but

(37:55):
usually they say yes.
Kind of anyway, you need alittle bit.
Some, some clients are, youknow, they come well prepared,
you know, some of them are justlike, Hey, we've been doing this
strategy at this, thispositioning work for the last,
like, you know, year, or we wentto some, you know, crazy, you
know, positioning company.
We tried this, it didn't work asgood as we thought, or they're
just have this information.
They're like, now what do we dowith it?

(38:15):
Right.
Oh, okay.
So, so they, they, they're like,oh, so they're kind of bringing
a pocket full of data sometimesin, yeah.
So let's assume they are right.
They're, they, or you know, theyat least have something.
So they're like, okay, this iswhat we're doing.
This is what we think peopleare, you know, needing.
This is our audience, you know,under our understanding about
what the audience is lookingfor.
Um.
This is how we want tocommunicate with the audience.
So we basically take all theinformation, like, where have

(38:37):
you been?
What do you want to do?
Who are you talking to?
What are they, who are theytalking to?
Like who, the people that you'retalking to, who are they talking
to?
Uh, what's the truth about thething and, you know, that the
product or the service, um, youknow, I mean, it's a, it's a
pretty, you trying to paint aholistic picture of the reality
of the situation.
Um, We, because, you know, froma, from what we do as a, as a

(38:58):
comedy agency, uh, you know, wehave to figure out how to take
that information and make itinteresting, not just
interesting, but also like, youknow, funny, right?
Right.
Uh, and we, our process is, is,is like Chibahut's kind of easy
to think about them, right?
Like, cause it's alreadyChibahut.
And it's been Chiba Hut for 25years before weed was even
legal, right?
There's all kinds of weed jokesin the world.

(39:18):
Yeah, exactly.
But, you know, in order to do itcorrectly, there, there is a
nuance to it, right?
It's like, and some, plenty ofbrands go out there and they're
just like, you know, Super Bowlis a great example.
It's just like, all right, let'sgo kick some guy in the balls.
And it's just like, that'scomedy.
That's comedy.
That's so funny.
And you know what?
It's like, I can't deny that itis.
You know?
Like, it is, but it stilldoesn't make me want to align

(39:39):
with your brand.
Yeah, I mean, my kids think thatgetting kicked in the balls is
the funniest thing in the world.
I should know.
Wait until they experience itsometime.
Yeah.
Then they won't think so.
You should just teach them aquick lesson.
I'll leave that to theirfriends.
There'll be plenty of that stuffhappening.
Probably appropriate.
You know, I don't have to belike, No, don't.
No risk of taking your kidsaway.
CSD is calling you to be like,uh, excuse me, sir.

(40:00):
We were listening to your verygood podcast.
However, you are going to thejail.
I'm going to the jail.
Yeah.
And the prison.
Um, but anyway, so they'll, youknow, they'll, they'll, they'll
come to us and they'll just saylike, okay, this is, you know,
what we have or what we don'thave, we'll fill in the blanks.
And then, um, and then we'llagree on a brief.
Right.
So it's like, okay, here's theoutline of what we think, you

(40:21):
know, all the math is.
Right.
Uh, and here's how we're goingto brief our team.
Uh, the creative team or, youknow, everybody, the strategist
and everybody, uh, and it will,you know, have all that
information, but also it'll turnthe corner into, um, you know,
knowing exactly, you know, allthe details about the product or
the service or whatever it isthat they're trying to sell or
the brand.
Uh, and then we'll hand it offto our brilliant, uh, creatives

(40:43):
and they basically take that,you know, I think a lot of it, I
think about it a lot of time asthe, um, the chassis of the car,
you know, like the drive train,all that stuff, like that's the
strategy, but the thing that'son top.
makes you want to buy it.
It's just like, wow, that'sfucking sexy.
You know, of course, of course,like you, you know, but you just
assume that it's going to gofast if it looks like this, or

(41:04):
it's going to be powerfulbecause it looks like this, or
it's going to be rugged becauseit looks like this.
Right.
Yeah.
Uh, but that, you know, thecreative, the creative product
in a lot of ways, Strategy is acreative product 100%, but the
creative product thing that wesee on TV gets the job done is
the outside of the car.
Yeah, yeah.
And the thing that gets the jobdone is the strategy that's
underlying that creative productengine, what kind of suspension,

(41:27):
whatever.
Exactly.
Right.
And it's, it's that complicated.
It really is interesting.
Um, but the whole point aboutthat is, you know, making it
simple.
So it's where it's like, youknow, us as engineers, like we
know every little piece aboutthe, you know, about that
vehicle.
You know, like you say, thesprings, the shocks, like, you
know, the drivetrain, like,like, you know, what kind of
engine you're thinking about allthese different outlets, where
are you going to distribute toso that the consumer can just

(41:50):
get it, get in it, turn it on.
They're like, this sounds good.
And then step on the gas andyou're like, that feels good.
And then they can get out of thecar and be like, I want to buy
this thing.
Right.
Um, so.
And then is it like a, is itlike a project base or are a lot
of your clients retainer?
Like, cause you're continually,yeah.
Talk to me about like therevenue model.
Yeah, both.

(42:10):
Um, it used to be more, uh,retained, uh, in, in this
industry.
It was like, you know, brandswould, you know, put a retainer
down and they, you know, justtell me what I need to, yeah,
exactly.
For like a year or whatever.
Um, that's less common thesedays.
It's more project based.
Okay.
Um, although AORs do exist.
So we have an, uh, AOR with, um,agency of record.

(42:33):
Okay.
Yep.
Um, so we're the agency ofrecord for, um, uh, men's
warehouse.
Not so much with Jansport,although this is our second.
Uh, year with Jansport, but itis kind of, you know, they want
to do a, you know, projectcementing in kind of there.
The goal isn't always to get toan AOR relationship, right?
An AOR relationship is aretained relationship, as you

(42:53):
say, uh, is, is good for somebrands, but sometimes like, you
know, you want to be able tohave a little bit more
flexibility.
Yeah.
Um, and a project base, youknow, means that you're like,
okay, well, The, the, thedetails that we're setting up
for this relationship, uh, inthis situation may not reflect
what's going to happen in thefuture.
So let's just like, you know,let's, let's wait.
It's not, it's no lessadvantageous to us as an agency,

(43:15):
other than if it is a hugeaccount, this is the exception.
If it's a huge account, like acar account, let's say, uh, you
want to make sure if you'rehiring a bunch of people to
service this brand, I mean,we're talking like.
You know, top 100 size brands,like, you know, uh, I was just
thinking cyber truck would be agood, you could make a lot of
funny stuff around that.
Well, I don't think they wouldlike, cause we'd probably make

(43:36):
too much fun of it.
They'd be like, no, no, no.
You need to take us moreseriously.
It'd be like, but you look likea toy, uh, probably pretty cool,
but you know, I've never drivenone, but you know, um, but
they'll, you know, so, so mostof, most of our clients are,
are, uh, project based.
Um, but like I said, it's, it's,it's.
It's just kind of the way theworld works these days.

(43:58):
And I prefer that because thingsjust change so quickly.
I never want to have to likehire a bunch of people.
And then, you know, uh, have to,you know, if the project doesn't
get renewed or whatever it is,it's just like one year and they
go somewhere else, like, and youhave to fire those people or let
them go.
You know, and, and that, that isthe worst part of my job is I
hate, I hate that.

(44:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's awful.
So, so I prefer to do somethingwhere I can say like, all right,
I know for this six months, I'mgoing to be working on this one
thing and that's it.
And I can hire a person andknowing that it's like shorter
term.
It's like, you know, can we, youknow, bring that on?
Can we handle that in house withthe people that we have or, you
know, or do we need to bring insomebody freelance?
I prefer to bring in somebodyfor freelance, which is a

(44:39):
vendor, especially if it's a sixmonth thing or something.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Or I'll just do it myself.
So your team is 11.
Like your employee base.
So you can do a lot of thingswith that.
And then you've got contractorsoutside of that phase too.
Yeah.
We, we tend not to bring in toomany creative, uh, inter, uh,
sorry, uh, uh, freelancers, notthat we, not, not that we, uh,
can't, it's just, it gets kindof expensive, uh, well, and at

(45:01):
risk of it, not quite aligningwith your brand and whatever,
and you don't want to sayanything.
It's like hard to get the rightpolish on it.
Yeah.
A little bit.
And I mean, we just have such a,Strong point of view with the
creative that we have, that it'seasier to work with like me and
like the creative team.
There's, uh, um, six of us.
So counting me, there's sixpeople, six of us on the, at the

(45:22):
agency are specifically in thecreative group.
Yeah.
I feel like we can get therepretty quick.
And then, and then we're justlike such a well oiled machine
that it's like, we'll sit thereand we'll laugh about it for a
while.
You know, like, what's whatcould we do?
Like, cause you know, it reallyis a lot of like a round table
almost.
Tell me about, uh, um, What'sfunny about your men's warehouse
and transport stuff.

(45:43):
Like I, I confess that I haven'tnecessarily re engaged with
either brand.
Um, no, that's okay.
Uh, it's all, I'll get you the,the, your, your seat's on its
way.
Okay.
I'll get your measurements.
Yeah.
Um, but, um, uh, they'redifferent, obviously they're
different brands and like allcreative has to come from the
soul of that specific brand.
And that's a, that's a crucialpart of our, of our, of our, um,

(46:06):
approach.
Okay.
Yeah.
Do you want to smoke a joint, bythe way?
Oh, no, man, I'm good.
All right, just check in.
Then I would, I was just, I waslooking at the thing.
The dinosaur.
I didn't even see the joint inthere.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was just like, I love thedinosaur.
What's he holding?
That's nice.
Yeah, now you know.
Very good.
Um, but, uh, you know, they'll,um, Uh, you know, like it's

(46:28):
okay.
It threw me out.
It's just like, what do I wantto smoke?
I don't know.
Do you know, Mark was the lastperson to smoke a joint with me
on air.
Yeah.
Oh, nice.
I'm just saying.
I think I would, I would stay.
I would be here for a long time.
We couldn't wrap up by 510.
No, we could not.
Maybe tomorrow.
I'd be like, this is a cushycouch.
Can I sleep here?
Wow.
Kurt did an 11 hour podcast.

(46:48):
Some of it was with him snoring.
Wow.
They started singing, but theydrank three bottles of bourbon.
And then that was a permanentpart of all the shows after
that.
Um, uh, no, uh, but the, the,the idea has to come from the
soul of the brand, you know, uh,you know, like our, part of our
process is finding thatsingularity about each of the

(47:09):
brands, like, what is the onething, you know, that makes
them, them, it's a really hardprocess to get to.
Cause, cause some, some brandsare just like, I can't do that.
That's an oversimplification.
We're so complex.
We do this, that, and the otherthing and all this stuff.
But the reality is when peoplethink about a brand, they really
only, like consumers, justeveryday people, right?
They really only think aboutlike one thing, right?

(47:29):
It's like, you know, you thinkabout Chevy.
What's the one word that comesup?
America.
Yeah, there you go.
Cheap.
A hood is right.
Really fucking good subs or, orweed.
Well, for me, it's like the bestsubs.
Oh, they are the best subs.
Yeah, absolutely.
But yeah, weed is the otherthing, I suppose.
Yeah.
Right.
Um, you think of Ben'swarehouse, it's affordable, good
looking suits.
There you go.
Right.
And so it's like, just likethat, it is a very singular,

(47:51):
very focused thing that we thinkabout where brands.
Uh, you know, when, whenthey're, when they're talking to
themselves or as you know,colloquially, colloquially put
smelling their own farts, it'slike, no, we do 15 different
things.
Right.
You know, and, and it's a verycomplicated process.
So our job is to come in anddistill it down to what is the
most important thing that feelslike them, that is not, but at

(48:13):
the same time doesn't feel likedismissive.
That's really interesting.
Or reductive to the point ofdamage.
Right.
Well, so I'm thinking about myown brand now'cause I got one,
right?
Sure.
Like local think tank is, yeah.
And.
You know, really, if, if I, if Ihad my druthers, if people
actually thought aboutsomething, when they heard the
name local think tank, likebeyond Fort Collins in Northern
Colorado, it would be like kindof community based community

(48:34):
supportive peer advisory groupsfor, for business people, you
know, a way for business tosupport each other and support
communities at each community iskind of that way or whatever,
you know, I don't know, that's alot of words.
Yeah.
But if, if it could just be thatsimple, then we'd have something
then.
Because I came into an industrythat's got a lot of big giant
companies and private equityowned things.

(48:55):
Vistage has been acquired likethree or four times now and
whatever.
And you know, we're communitybased.
That's, that's our bigdifference.
Right.
Well, you got to think about itlike this, right?
Uh, there's a separation betweenwho you are and what you do.
Right.
Just like human beings.
Right.
Right.
You're hurt.
So better would be, I getsmarter here.
Yeah, right.
There you go.

(49:16):
Right.
Like if a business owner waslike business, people get
smarter there.
Yeah, right.
I think that's absolutely true.
It's like, you know, this is a,like you're like, uh, at its
soul and this will feelreductive because it's hard.
It's a hard, this is a hardexercise.
Yeah.
We can't just do it right here.
Uh, yeah, but we can absolutely.
No, no, we have, no, it's, it'susually hard for the brand.
Right.
Because they're just like, Oh myGod, like, what about this?
What about this?
What about that?

(49:36):
You know, those things arereally important.
And I understand that, but like,that's not how people think that
there's a place for that stuffin the ecosystem of
communication, They call itwithin your team things.
Maybe that doesn't belong in theTV spot.
Maybe that works really welldown in social or whatever, but
I think for your brand, right?
You're it's, It's education.
Like at its soul, you're ateacher.

(49:58):
And yes, in a way, becauseyou're pulling out because the
best teachers pull informationout of their students.
They help like, uh, they help usrealize the truth because it's
always in all of us, you know?
So a great teacher doesn't tellyou what to do.
They get you to the point whereyou say the truth on your own
and it comes from, it comes fromyou, right?

(50:19):
I mean, now there's totally, youcan teach people as an educator.
Well, and I feel underqualifiedfor that.
And, but by.
My big skill is bringing peoplelike Mark Torres into the
organization and saying, this isa person that we'll both gain
and benefit everybody else inthe room.
Mm-Hmm.
you know, and, and they teacheach other.
Right.
And so I don't really feelqualified as a teacher.

(50:39):
It's a teaching place that I'vecurated but that's the thing.
I mean, but I can't say thatit's too long, but, but it's
not.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
It's like, this is where peoplecome to get an education on
business.
It's, it's a, it is.
It is a, it is a, is it a, it'sa tank.
You know, a location, uh, agroup, a community, whatever you
want to call it, people who aresharing and you're facilitating
that, like, that is absolutelyan education at like an edge.

(51:01):
You are an educator in that way,right?
You're facilitating educationfor those around you.
Yeah.
I'm too dumb.
That might not be right.
I mean, it's yeah.
I mean, we just did a couple ofminutes, but yeah, no, I think I
understand that process now.
That's really actually yourchallenge to me on like, just
boil it down, like nice suitsaffordably.
Yeah.

(51:22):
Like Ben's warehouse has thatbrand or whatever.
For men's warehouse, you puttingthem through the same, you know,
the same filter or putting, youknow, the same process.
Yeah.
Right.
Uh, they are, um, they solveproblems.
They're problem solver.
Hmm.
Right.
Because men, one of men'sbiggest problems is what the
fuck do I wear to this fuckingthing?

(51:42):
Totally.
None of us.
And my wife's not even here atthe store with me trying to buy
this suit for this fuckingthing.
Absolutely.
What the fuck do I wear to thisfucking thing?
For sure.
It's one of the hardest things.
Actually, that is the best partabout their service too.
It's like Ace Hardware.
Yeah.
Like why do I go to Ace Hardwareinstead of Home Depot?
Well,'cause somebody will helpme with my fucking thing.
They'll sit there and they'llfigure out like, why?
Like, okay, so the, the, themale end of the, the sprinkler

(52:04):
that I, you know, have to, youknow, find a, a connector for,
you know, the actual sprinklerhead for, is, I, I don't know,
is it an eighth inch or is it aquarter inch?
Right.
Male to a female.
And they're just like, here, Igot you Right.
Totally.
Men's warehouse is just likethat.
It's like they come in, men comein and they're just like, they
don't want to be there becausethey're, they're embarrassed

(52:24):
because they don't have theanswers.
Men love to have the answers.
Uh, you know, we're, we're theones who are making it safe for
them to come in and ask thequestions.
And so that's where you can usehumor is kind of deflecting of
the fear and the anxiety.
And absolutely.
It's just like, look, it.
We're all big dumb idiots.
Right.
And nobody taught us how todress.
It's so easy to make fun of menand clothing choices.

(52:46):
I mean, look at myself here.
Right.
I actually, like, hold on asecond.
There's actually some matchinggoing on here in some of these
color patterns.
I wore my kind of partylandappropriate outfit today.
Yeah, I love the floral pattern.
I bought the orange pants beforereally any shirts I could wear
them with.
But then my wife helped me.
There you go.
Sam, a salmon, salmon color.
Salmon and orange.
Or yeah, you're doing great,man.

(53:07):
I walked in.
I was like, fuck yeah, man.
It's not for everybody.
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah.
Uh, but, but that is theproblem.
You walk in and like, you know,you've been, you know, let's say
you walk into a J crew wherethey don't have.
You know, a clothier and atailor on site, you know, that
stuff.
You walk into J crew and theremight be like a high school
student who's, you know, andthey're just like, you're just
like, I need to go to a jobinterview.

(53:29):
And they're like, Oh, okay.
Well, uh, the Polo's over there.
Yeah.
Or just like a lot of peoplelike this shirt, you know, and,
but with Edmunds warehouse,they'll take you through the
whole process.
Like, I mean, it is sointeresting.
I mean, so when you walk out ofthat place and you, well, before
you walk out of that place, you,you stand in the, in the mirror
and you're getting the, youknow, the, they're taking your
measurements and they put it onyou and they kind of clip it and

(53:50):
to make it look, you know, looklike it's going to look.
Yeah, exactly.
And you look in the mirror andit happens.
Like I've had that experience.
You look in the mirror andyou're like, Oh my God.
Damn, that dude's actually notthat ugly.
I'm like, I could, I could, I'mhot?
Am I hot?
I like it, I like it.
No, no, you're not.
Oh, well, thank you.
But, but the hypothetical personwas.

(54:12):
Your imaginary friend isactually pretty good looking.
Exactly.
I'm not, but most men are.
Uh, but in that, in that moment,but you think you are, you feel.
Yeah, yeah, no, well, becauseyou look so much different than
you normally look, kind of, too.
Yeah, and you just look like aspy or, you know, or, or a, or
a, like a magazine guy.
Yeah.
And, uh, and that feels good.
So there's, you know, theconfidence there.
So it's like, we help you figureout how to find your confidence.

(54:36):
We will take you all the waythrough that process.
So you don't have to, like, youdon't have to worry about it.
You just like take your handsoff.
It was like, you know, it'smen's warehouse.
Take a meal.
Like, just help me.
And nobody else does that.
No other brand does that.
That helps to expand margin too,right?
Like, cause they can become avalue brand instead of a.
Right, exactly.
Because they give you all thisextra value that you're not

(54:58):
getting at a lot of your otherplaces.
Mm hmm.
Um, and I don't mean, I'm notsolving your problems, but.
No, I love that.
You're exactly right.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so, we're gonna stick to ourtime.
Okay.
A lot of our listeners are smallbusinesses, not the national
brands and stuff you're workingwith, but so am I.
You're right, you are too.
Yeah.
But they market, they advertisein different ways and different

(55:20):
things.
Like, do you have any, like,foundational tips from somebody
that's kind of worked with bigbrands and now is thinking
about, you know, think aboutsmall brands like Loco Think
Tank.
Mm hmm.
Um, or one of my members I metwith today is outsourced office.
Right.
She does bookkeeping and officeadministrative stuff.
Does a killer job.
Yeah.
It's a little tiny brand.
How, how do, how do little tinybrands take advantage of your

(55:43):
expertise in thinking about?
Mm.
And they don't have to be comedybased because I suspect that you
could be beyond that.
Mm hmm.
Like you just choose the niche.
Yeah, yeah.
Like it, it just, it's only funfor me to make money.
Yeah, I dig it.
Yeah, I'm very selfish in thatway.
Uh, many ways, really.
Uh, no, but, um, you know, Ithink Here, I'm gonna Yeah, we

(56:04):
can Mm hmm.
You've heard of old elk before.
Of course, yeah.
You like the elk blood?
Oh, I love that.
Comes right out of its mouth.
Like, it, it is a little, like,what part of its body is that
coming from?
Is it a bile or has it been,like, gut shot?
You know, I hit me, I hit meharder than you.
Are you, want me to get youfresh?

(56:25):
Okay, alright, cheers.
Um.
We can revisit.
But my wife's gonna come pick meup.
Yeah, we got, Like, we literallyhave at least, like, two bottles
of bourbon still left if we wantto.
Cool.
Good night, sweet prince.
Me and, me and two other guys,uh, drank a whole bottle of
scotch, uh, in, like, episodenumber six or so, and I was,
like, slurring so bad.

(56:45):
We went almost three hours, butit was rough.
That, you know, those early dayswhen you're still, uh, figuring
it out.
Well, it was December of 2020,COVID was rampant, you know, it
was, yeah, even having a podcastconversation with three people
in an office, not much biggerthan this, very edgy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I digress.

(57:06):
No, I love that.
Uh, I mean, that's, that's smallbusinesses right there.
It's like, you know, I thinkjust to bring it back around.
Yeah, yeah, please.
Cause I'm a great, I just circleback around.
I'm one of those.
You do a good job.
Yeah, yeah.
So do you.
Um, gosh, look at us.
Look at us.
We're going to be peas andcarrots.
Yeah.
Buddies.
Um.
You want to go camping thisweekend?
I do actually.
I'm planning on it.
Um.
We're going up to Pingree Park.

(57:27):
Oh, dude.
That's where I go.
Bennett Creek.
Yeah.
We're going to go to Tom Bennettcampground.
No shit.
Um, are we the same?
Did we just say that to eachother's brains?
And then it came out of ourmouth.
Um, so, uh, but, but that is,but that really is, you know,
like an important aspect of it.
It's like knowing who you are asa brand.

(57:47):
And sometimes like, uh, youknow, it is, it is tempting.
Let's say if you're abookkeeper, right.
For instance, um, say like,well, this is what I do.
Uh, and that might be true.
I was a banker.
So was I.
For a long time and it was like,okay, how does we differentiate
this bank?
Okay.
Well, I was I was a teller I waslike the kid that was like, you
know at the Saturday Yeah, itwas that was my background I did

(58:12):
a small business lending for 15years before I Quit to try to
start a restaurant.
Where's all the money?
I spent it all like You did?
I don't know.
No, well, I ended up with a foodtrailer, uh, dove out of like
upper middle class into povertylevel income.
My wife eventually got a nicepromotion and a raise and health

(58:32):
insurance and that allowed me tocontinue.
Eventually focus on local thinktank and make it be my number
one thing.
So yeah, I got a whole funjourney too.
Has anybody interviewed you?
Well, back in February, um,Victor Berry, um, a 15 year old
exchange student fromNetherlands?

(58:53):
Uh huh, I've heard of that.
Uh, Dutch, maybe?
Anyway, he interviewed me with alittle coaching.
Oh, that's fun.
Uh, so it was, but not a proper,like, long form interview, I
suppose, like, in the, in myformat.
But we went an hour and a half.
He did a great job.
It was like the actor's cabaret.
He was like You are a delight.

(59:14):
He did not do anything likethat, no.
Well maybe, maybe we'll comeback on him.
Where did we jump off?
It feels like we're in PingreePark.
Uh, we did, we're up there,we're camping right now.
Yeah, yeah, I'll see if, Fridaynight.
Yeah, sounds great.
We're going to have some movies.
Maybe I guess one of the peoplehas a projector.
Oh, wow.
Yeah So we can watch the gray orsomething.

(59:35):
I Okay, so I took my kids upthere and they were just they
were they were feeling it Theywere just like we're telling
ghost stories It had just rainedand then we all went to the tent
for a while And so when we cameback out, it was like 930.
So it was dark.
Yeah, and they were just like,oh, yeah we're getting into this
and they're young and And uh,and uh, and they all kind of
told their ghost stories and Youknow, which weren't really ghost
stories.
They were highly creative and mychildren, the best.

(59:58):
Uh, however, they, uh, you know,they were just like, and, and
all of those stories were like,there was three kids or four,
you know, it was all there andtheir names were, you know, it
was all their own dangerousanimals.
Yeah, exactly.
No, no, there wasn't even that.
And they were like, and theywere hiking and then they found
a place where they could all getin the water because it was,
they were basically just likerecounting the situation.

(01:00:19):
That we were in for camping.
And I was just like, okay.
And I, and I was just like, wow.
It's not a big dipper beforethey went to bed.
Yeah.
Well, I scared the shit out ofthem.
So yeah, I didn't even get likemore than five seconds into it.
I was just like, I was like, Oh,like, you know, uh, they, they'd
said there's.
And then I waited a few seconds.
I was like, Oh, I forgot to tellyou guys.
Um, I read something on the newsthat said that there was three

(01:00:42):
campers.
That were up here in this areathat, uh, they found that had
just died.
And they were like, they allkind of like looked at me like
their eyes.
And I was like, I was like, theydon't really know what's wrong.
But like the thing that wasreally crazy is that when they
found them, all of theireyeballs had been ripped out of
their heads.
And the kids were like, How oldare these children, by the way?

(01:01:07):
We might still get that CPS callfor you.
Yeah, yeah, they're like betweenfour and nine.
I love it.
You don't take it.
Like, just toughen them up alittle bit.
Oh yeah, they get it.
Like, I don't, I don't pull anypunches as a dad.
Uh, yeah, but it was, they werepissed.
They were fucking pissed at me.
They were like, it's not funny.
You shouldn't do that.
It's a ghost story.

(01:01:27):
Not a scary story.
I'm like, come on.
Man, let's talk about theEnglish language semantics.
Just for some context, todaywhen I went home for lunch, um,
I came home and started cooking,warming up my leftovers and
stuff, and my wife was outeating her lunch at the patio
table, and we're watching herbrother's dogs, and our dog was
there, and somehow I, like, didall these things, and nobody

(01:01:50):
knew I was there, because theywere all in the backyard.
Right.
And so, of course, I I snuck upon my wife and, on my wife and
scared the shit out of her.
Wait, wait, literally?
Yeah, I just, I was like, ch chch.
No, like literally scared theshit out of her?
Not shit.
She did not poop.
Okay.
But I scared her pretty good fora Tuesday afternoon.
Good job, yeah.

(01:02:12):
It's a good Tuesday terrifyingmoment.
Right.
You're just thinking there mightbe a stranger in my backyard.
Like, what woman doesn't wantthat?
At one o'clock on a Tuesday.
Well done.
I love that.
Love you, Jill.
If you listen to this, she neverlistens.
Yeah, she's just like, afterlike a hundred and seventy, No,
after like one, she was like,Okay, that's really neat, honey.

(01:02:34):
She's like, cool.
Who's got time for that?
Yeah.
I love you.
She does.
She does.
But you did, okay, so we'll comeback.
Okay.
All right.
I'm going to say, I'm going tosay go ahead.
Bring us back.
You know, um.
Small brands.
Yeah.
no, I heard one already kind of,I think like to know who you

(01:02:54):
really, yeah, know who you are,know who you are.
I think there's a differencebetween like, you know,
sometimes people discount the,the human aspect of it.
Right.
Some, some brands don't, somebrands are just like, you know,
we're all about our humanrelation, like all that kind of
stuff.
But if you're a bookkeeper,let's say, right.
Uh, and your job is my mom'sCPA.
So this is, this is, she's now aCFO.
Um, but like, you know, startedas a CPA.

(01:03:15):
Uh, it can be tempting to saylike, I don't fuck up, right?
I will.
I know numbers.
I can know all the things Iknow, the tax law, I know all
the things I can keep your booksand there'll be like, you can
just, you can trust me.
Right.
However, as somebody who needs abookkeeper or who has needed
bookkeepers in the past, so muchof that is also like their

(01:03:35):
bedside manner, you know?
So it's like, you can also bringin the human aspect of that too.
So like putting some personalityinto your messaging, your ads,
like wherever you're like, youknow, putting it out there,
crucially important.
Right.
Uh, It is important to show thatthere's a human and that human
is going to not only help youand earn your trust and retain
your trust, but also, uh, uh,you know, that they're going to

(01:03:57):
be, they're going to, they'regoing to be a bright spot in
your day because so much of whatwe do can often be really.
Yeah, exactly.
You have to sit here and listento me talk, which means you're a
saint for that.
Oh yeah.
I dread this.
Yeah, exactly.
Podcast conversation time every,every week.
Normally though, it's like funand awesome, but then you got,
you mistakenly brought me on.

(01:04:18):
No, it was everybody.
I just hate it.
It's a form of penance for me.
Just like self flagellating.
Yeah, basically.
Basically.
I love that.
Oh, you've been such a sinfulperson, Kurt.
You just have to go do thisdocumentary of Northern Colorado
business people for years andyears.
Most people get an invitation toheaven.

(01:04:38):
You have to earn it.
Right.
Yeah.
You're, you're, you're on theoutside looking in, uh, but, uh,
yeah, yeah.
So, you know, so I think thatthat's a really important part
is don't forget the human partof who you are, of what you
offer, uh, Because, you know,and, and, and then involvement,
you know what I mean?
Like, that's what, it'ssomething I love about what you
do here and what you do withyour, the community is get
people involved.

(01:04:59):
I think that like, that's a hugepart of it.
Like, you know, that is a dyingfunction in society today.
Like people don't haveconnections outside of like the
people that live in their housewith them and a few other
things, the people that go tothe gym with, and then they
change gyms and they don't haveany friends again.
Yeah.
Uh, I mean, you probably can'ttell, but I'm a big gym goer.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you seem super buffed.

(01:05:20):
I'm definitely big, but it's notBut where do people find
community, right?
Yeah.
Uh, sorry.
I should say I'm definitely big,but I was not making a joke
about my muscles.
It was the opposite that I'veput on weight.
Right.
You're a big cock.
Yeah.
That wasn't it?
Oh my god.

(01:05:40):
I love this.
Wow.
Holy shit.
Like, yes.
That is exactly what I wastalking about.
Well, I assumed.
I was trying to like let peoplejust, you know, go there on
their own.
I think I've seen you onPornhub.
Yeah, you have.
I am Pornhub.
Whiskey's kicking in just alittle bit.
This is nice.
Do you want to smoke that jointnow?
It's almost 420.
Oh my god.

(01:06:01):
You know what?
I will sit here if you want to.
You're welcome to.
I will die.
You know, I'm going to, Oh, Ihave to go out.
Um, I don't have a lighter in mypocket.
But I might smoke a little bit.
Yeah, go for it.
But you're just going to have togo monologue for like, 30
seconds.
Okay.
Well, you know what?
You can do it in here too, ifyou want, man.
Well, I know, but I have to goeat my lighter.

(01:06:22):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Too bad the elk mouth.
So I could set up, it would besweet if it also blue fire, blue
fire or bourbon.
Now we're getting into real shitthat we can market.
I mean, I could pause this, Icould pause this and I could go
get my lighter, but I'm notgoing to, I'm going to leave it
in your capable hands.

(01:06:42):
Um, so I'm just going to sithere and just riff.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, I think so.
Um, let's just, let's talk aboutyour, your relationship with
marijuana until I get back withmy lighter.
Ready for this?
Yeah.
All right.
Well, our listeners are, youknow, I'll leave the door open
so I can hear while I'm gone.
So when I was born, I was ababy.
Yeah.

(01:07:03):
I'm just going to leave thatthere.
Uh, I feel like I have to talklouder because like, no, no, I'm
just like super self conscious.
Uh, no, uh, uh, interesting factabout me.
So, uh, I was born into, uh, andthis is true, a family, uh,
that, um, and you know, I lovethem all.

(01:07:25):
I love them.
No, I love them all dearly.
Uh, but the family was, uh,like, sort of like marijuana
dealers, like drug dealers.
Yeah.
Oh really?
Yeah.
In fact, my grandfather In thesmall town action?
Uh, no, this wasn't, uh, so yes,I was born in Pleasant Hill, or
sorry, born in Eugene.
That makes it sound dirty, kindof.
Yeah, a little bit.
Well, back then it was not okay,and, uh, you know, the DEA got

(01:07:48):
involved, busted my wholefamily.
That was a big, big deal.
Oh, damn.
Okay.
Um, and so I actually do have arelationship with, with
marijuana in that way.
It's very traumatic.
In a way, yeah.
I had to work through a lotbother you?
Not at all.
No, no, I, dude, I, I, I, I got,I, I, I, I, I, I eat, uh, I eat
gummies from time to time.
Do you like mushrooms too?
I do.

(01:08:09):
Uh, you know, I did that.
Like I can actually trace backto a very pivotal, if not, um,
uh, transformational moment.
The first time that I didMushrooms, 100 percent is why I
am the way I am.
And was this earlier?
Yeah, I was 16 years old.
Really?
Yeah, I know that I Like, isthat a good thing?

(01:08:29):
Yeah, yeah it is.
You're pretty happy, it seemslike.
I mean, you could be a lot lesscool.
Uh, well thank you.
You could be in the Air Force.
You could have died in Iraq.
That's a backhanded complimentthat I appreciate.
I don't know where that's comingfrom.
You could be a lot less cool.
Uh, you could, you could becooler.
Um, no, I, uh, yeah, yeah.
I'd have to try.
I don't know.
We'll see.
I don't know you that well.
We'll see after camping thisweekend how I feel.

(01:08:51):
Yeah.
Oh man, it's going to be soawesome.
Well, mushrooms.
Let's bring them.
Uh, but no, no, no.
For, For, for, for real, like,you know, like family grew and
sold, like, you know, on amassive scale, it wasn't just
like a couple of pot plants.
It was like full, full base, nofull base.
Well, it couldn't back thenbecause back then it was like,
you know, I mean, they wouldfind it, uh, but like basements

(01:09:11):
houses, you know, um, uh, youknow, barns like that kind of
shit.
Like, I mean, it was a lot andthe DEA came in through and, you
know, busted, you know, severalmembers of my family, my
grandfather, uh, and, uh, and,and, and, you know, I've, I've.
I've definitely dealt with itsince then, but forever, you
know, like, I, I don't know.
There was just always somethingaround it.

(01:09:31):
And I realized that, um, as akid holding, like, Uh, like
keeping an adult secret as achild.
And now I don't blame my parentsfor this.
Like, I'm not mad at my mom anddad for this or any of my family
really, but like being a childand having an adult secret is a
really difficult thing to do.
Remember mommy and daddy will goto jail forever.

(01:09:52):
If you ever tell anybody.
One hundred percent.
Oh shit, dude.
And I've said a hundred percenta lot of times.
'cause you're so right.
So many times.
Um, and, and a hundred, I'm goodat that and a hundred percent
right.
Yeah.
Not 99 Um, but, but really,yeah, it, it was, um, you know,
it was one of those things, oh,I never really thought about
that that much.
You know, I always kind of tosome extent assume it's like
people without kids andwhatever, right?
Yeah.
No, but it was, it was one ofthose things where, um.

(01:10:15):
Yeah, I mean, and I didn'treally even realize, you know,
what, you know, how it affectedme until it was much later and
just, you know, like certainbehavioral issues, you know, in
myself, like, you know, thingsthat I'd like, I didn't love
about myself.
Were you a consumer ofmarijuana?
I, I, I did at some point.
Yeah.
Right.
So, uh, and actually I startedpretty early.
Now that I think about it, I wasprobably in 13, I'd steal it
from, Right.

(01:10:35):
Because it was everywhere.
Right.
I mean, some of my earliestmemories.
The barn's literally got 40pounds underneath the hay bales.
Yeah, no shit.
Like, exactly.
Like, um, and some of myearliest memories are sitting
there and watching my, you know,dad's uncle, my dad and my
uncle's, you know, mygrandfather, like, you know,
clipping buds and like puttingthem in big giant plastic bags
and sitting there and watching,you know, them like weigh shit

(01:10:56):
out on scales, you know, andlike, uh, and, uh, you know,
that smell, you know, of, of, offresh, not even burning
marijuana, like, you know, ishappening on It's growing.
It's growing.
But fresh growing and like, youknow, or freshly clipped, like,
you know, it was just a, a, afundamental, like one of the
most, one of the earliest thingsI can remember.
Yeah.
Um, and, uh, you know, it wasn'tuntil within the last like five

(01:11:16):
or six years really that I, Idid have to go through, you
know, some transformationmyself, you know, like, uh, uh,
emotionally.
Some kind of therapy associatedwith that.
Absolutely.
Should I crack that door by theway?
No, you're fine.
Okay.
No, you're fine.
Um, where I had to, uh, no,cause I partake.
So it's, it's fine.
Um, just not as often as I like,you know.
You can be a, like, uh, Mark isa one hitter quitter.

(01:11:38):
Is he?
Hits and quits.
One, one hit.
Yeah.
Yeah, not me.
I'll, I'll.
I'll finish that jug with youand then I'll be wasted and I
can't drive home and I'll haveto call Uber.
Exactly.
But you could, you could besomeone.
The other night, the actually,like recently I actually ate too
much of a gummy.
Right.
Bad, bad moment for myself.
I was just, so you're a smallscale guy too.
You're like biting gummies inhalf and stuff.

(01:12:00):
Oh yeah, dude.
Check out this.
I was at my weed store the otherday.
I like, uh, flower power.
Um, partly because it didn't gettoo crazy during COVID.
Like, like some of the placeswere like, we're online only to
drive through and whatever.
Anyway.
Um, and the dude was like, uh,Oh, I asked about a hundred

(01:12:22):
milligram liquid thing they hadon sale.
A hundred milligrams.
Right.
Yep.
And it's like a bottle and he'slike, well, yeah, a lot of
people just take like a capful,that's five milligrams and you
can just put it in your waterand it's, there are different
flavors and stuff.
So you can get like the cherryand weed.
Um, or if you're somebody likeme, you might just drink one.
Oh my God.
If you've got a super hightolerance.

(01:12:44):
And, uh, I was like, thatdoesn't sound like me.
And he's like, yeah, lastweekend was my, or a couple of
weekends ago was my birthday andI, I had 500 milligrams.
And he's still alive.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He said he was pretty out of itfor a while.
Uh, but he had 500mg of ediblesas a birthday treat.

(01:13:04):
You know what?
I would love to wake up on aSunday morning and just be like,
you know what?
I smoke like a half ounce amonth.
Yeah, right.
I'm gonna wake up today and youknow what I'd like to do?
I'd like to, uh, I would liketo, uh, be completely removed
from reality.
Right.
For the, the massive part of theday and possibly even tomorrow
too.
Right.
I'm just gonna do that.
Well, and really not I couldn't.

(01:13:25):
Completely enough.
Like, if I could take a bunch ofacid, it'd actually be
completely removed.
Yeah, right.
It'd be worth it.
You know, it's fun.
Maybe not on your birthday, but.
Right.
Like, weed's just gonna, like,make you, like, suppressed or
something.
Yeah, weed's just gonna, yeah,like, it'll, like, it has, like,
it, it tops out at some point.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, there's a maximum.
Yeah.
And after that, it's just gonnabe, like, uh.

(01:13:45):
Why didn't you just domushrooms?
Like, Driving a train with thebrakes on, you know, there's a
certain amount of weed that'slike opening the windows wider
or something for your train.
But, but certainly there's a,there's a level at which you're
just going to slow everythingdown.
Yeah.
You know, I'm just not like,like, I don't love making myself

(01:14:07):
have to think about the samething over and over.
You know, like I already do thatwhen I'm sober right re engage
with that same yeah exactly likemy autism spectrum, you know Is
is is already doing that i'malready hyper fixating.
So yeah, yeah Um, but yeah, so,you know, I think the other
thing that I just want to get toyou with like the small business
thing Yeah, yeah Uh, I'm surethey're all listening still.

(01:14:31):
They are.
Yeah.
They are.
We have like a really high, likefinished.
Oh, I know.
Rate.
No, you guys do.
Like, that's what I love aboutit.
I was just making fun about it.
If they get in, like some peopleget in for like five minutes and
they bounce.
Yeah.
But if they're in for 20minutes, they're in for the
rest.
Yeah.
Like almost everybody finishesit.
Welcome to the, uh.
That's why you put the locoexperience at the end.
Yeah.
There you go.
Fuck you.
Oh shit.
It's four 20.

(01:14:51):
Oh yeah.
We talked about that already.
That's why I smoked that joint.
Yeah.
You fucking did it, man.
Maybe I should just make that athing.
Whether I'm interviewing apastor or You're like, this is
happening now.
Right.
Hold up, you want to join me ornot?
They're like, no, no, no, likedo I need to repent?
Uh, and you're like, yeah, youmight want to.
So they're small businessthings.
The other thing is like media,right?
So we talked about that at thetop of the hour.

(01:15:13):
Yeah, isn't media dead?
Like everything but Facebook andInstagram and Google, right?
No, no, not at all.
when people think about media,they think about like buying TV
spots, right?
Well, connected TV.
So, um, it will be and whatever,but it's also on it's it's,
there's a, there's a commercialbase for everything except for,

(01:15:34):
I think right now, Apple TV.
Right.
So, uh, prime YouTube, YouTube,Hulu, Hulu wasn't early.
Yeah, exactly.
It wasn't really one, but yeah,same, same thing.
FUBU to be right.
Right.
Right.
Um, but like there, there's a,uh, geographically target those
things.
Absolutely.
So if you're an HVAC company,yeah, you theoretically could

(01:15:57):
benefit from.
You probably wouldn't wellplaced ad.
If you were an HVAC company thatwas local, you probably wouldn't
do that on enough geographicright.
I don't think they do it thatspecifically, or at least I
haven't like encountered thatthey might.
Um, but.
I still believe in traditionaladvertising.
And if you're a local company,like people still, like people

(01:16:19):
still love billboards, you knowwhat I mean?
Uh, they don't like gettingthings hung on their, on the
door.
Right.
So don't do a door hangerbecause those things is that's
the fastest way to make someonefucking hate you, uh, but, uh,
as far as I'm concerned, um, in,in my experience, but you might
like design a billboard that fitinto an advertising.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
You wouldn't buy it.
You wouldn't arrange for a bunchof billboards, but you would,

(01:16:40):
yeah, we wouldn't create it, butwe would place the, or we would
create the, you know, make thecreative design.
It would be part of the campaignthat probably had some other tie
in things that were absolutelyradio or whatever else.
Yeah.
I think most brands do soundstuff or just video stuff.
Oh man, I do, do sound stuff.
I do a lot.
We do a lot of music in ourspots.
Uh, it's something we're kind ofknown for.
And maybe people are just like,uh, party lens is going to do

(01:17:02):
another song, but like mybackground is music.
And so I, you know, play all theinstruments.
So there's times where we'lljust like, I'll just go and I'll
write a quick jingle.
Yeah.
We're just like the whole spotis a, you know, is a, is a, is
a, is a song.
Yeah.
And then we'll just go out tosomebody to like, either make it
or sometimes actually play theinstruments with, you know,
there was a, uh, creativedirector, uh, named Matt,

(01:17:25):
another creative director namedMatt that worked at party lane.
It was a great drummer.
And we did for a brand calledholy veggie, wrote the song
together, you know, and thenrecorded it.
And it was just us, you know, itwas me singing the songs, him
playing the drums, me playingthe guitar.
It was, yeah, it was great.
Are you a pretty phenomenalsinger too?
I don't want anybody to feellike they can't challenge me to

(01:17:46):
a karaoke off, but theyshouldn't.
I dig it.
I dig it.
Can you do a Chris Isaac Wickedgame?
Yeah.
Okay.
I've nailed that in karaokebefore.
Yeah, that's a tough one.
It really is.
I've failed at it twice, uh, butnailed it once.
Yeah, you gotta commit.
Totally.
Like, that's the problem withChris Isaac.
Um, yes.
But it's a chorus.

(01:18:06):
Right.
Yeah, if you fuck up thattransition from your regular
voice to your head voice, thatfalsetto, that falsetto.
Like you're like, people just,they'll just be like, no, I've
checked out.
Yeah.
No, sorry.
You're not Chris Isaac.
Um, so, but, but I, I do thinkthat like, Uh, a lot of small

(01:18:28):
brands, they, they, uh, youknow, or just like small
companies, you know, even it'sjust like one person, they look
at like things like billboardsor, uh, you know, bus stop,
shelter, you know, like thatkind of stuff, um, they think
it's too expensive.
So I would, I would, I would sayfor everyone, especially in
these smaller markets, go talkto a media company, find, you
know, do your research, find thebest in class media company
here, especially one that like,you know, thinks local, he

(01:18:50):
understands like, you know, allthe buyers, like, you know,
understands like on, you know, aclear channel and sure on the,
and all that kind of stuff, uh,go in and, and.
And just ask, right.
Just see like, how much would itcost for me to do a billboard or
how much would it cost for me todo a spot by on like, you know,
at the, like, you know, a localTV channel and just see like
what they're in, ask what theresults should be.

(01:19:10):
Ask of the metrics of successare asked for like with a return
on best, they should have allthat kind of stuff figured out.
And you can actually say like,okay, a 2, 000.
Spend media spend, which mightsound like, well, it certainly
might sound like the world.
Yeah, it is a lot, but also it'sexpensive not to have any
customers too, but you can alsoreach so many people, you know,
at, at once in a local area.

(01:19:32):
And if you do it right with somecreativity attached to it, but
not at the expense of yourmessage, you can actually make a
pretty compelling argument.
And so it is possible.
Totally.
So, yeah.
So I think that's the, like, doit well, if you're going to do
it.
Is what I think I just heard toa certain extent.
Rely on the people who do itbetter than you.
I would say that.
Right.
Like, I could say, well, I couldbuy a bus stop thing and it says

(01:19:57):
loco think tank 6 call Kurt, youknow, or I could do something
that actually catches eyes.
I, I was just talking earliertoday with Matthew Fugate.
He's a realtor and he had likethese bus stop signs where he
was like allowed out somehow orsomething.
He was just like the coolestrealtor in town.

(01:20:17):
And I don't know if that workedfor him or not, but at least it
was different.
It caught people's eyes all thetime.
How do you set yourself apartfrom the rest of the people?
Right.
I mean, it is, it is thatsimple.
Uh, so to that point, if we'rebringing it down to its, you
know, it's simplest form, whatwe do.
Isn't really that hard.
What is hard is the details,like the craft of it, the, uh,

(01:20:41):
you know, understanding whatconverts, uh, understanding how
to, you know, it's like all thatfoundational stuff, the chassis.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's harder in some ways,especially with like, you know,
like the younger generations, Ilike Gen Z for instance, like
everyone is so confused by them.
But our, our agency actuallydoes that really well.
Right?
Like most of our brands are, youknow, brands that, that market

(01:21:02):
for You know, primarily to Gen Zand you just have to like,
understand that, like, they'rejust human beings, right?
They're just existing in adifferent reality than we did
when we were their age.
When I was their age, like thescariest thing in my world was
two things.
It was, uh, Y2K.
Right.
Oh my God, the entire world'sgoing to shut down.
Uh, and then, um, uh, the, uh,the, you know, the nine 11,

(01:21:26):
right.
That was kind of like, you know,in like a 10 year span.
I'm a little older than you thatlike.
Russia and end of the worldstuff and comparing the sizes of
our missiles compared to theirsand stuff was part of my
vernacular.
Yeah.
Right.
And yeah, yeah, exactly.
So it's, but, but for them, likethey are, they're, they're so
exposed to the reality ofhumanity in a way that we just

(01:21:50):
weren't right.
Like they grew up seeing peoplefail online.
They grew up seeing peoplesucceed spectacularly by way of,
you know, Well, I'm takingadvantage of the, the, you know,
the world around that.
I mean, like they, they seehumanity in a different way and
they're so jaded by it.
And so they're just real, youknow, they're, they're, they're
really are the realistgeneration as far as I'm

(01:22:12):
concerned.
And they are likely to loseground in the standard of
living.
Like Americans have lived atlike.
Two standard deviations abovethe average of the world forever
for, or something like sinceWorld War II virtually.
And we're going to lose that.
It's just too expensive to laborstuff here to some extent.

(01:22:33):
Well, until all the moneyredistributes.
Right.
Yeah.
Well, for another 40 years.
Yeah.
And who knows, like if, if welose reserve currency status,
then there's going to be a lotof shift.
And, but how you do thingsdomestically matters a lot in
that.
And what's, what, what we'retrying to do.
If we get a lot of questions.
Yeah.
I mean, we could like that,that's a different, that's a
whole different podcast,probably not one that you would

(01:22:54):
invite me to because I'd belike, I don't know, man, let's
advertise about it.
Let's take a, uh, let's take a30 second pause and go take a
bathroom break.
And, uh, we'll do a.
Flash fly over a little bit andcome back to some fun stuff.
Okay.
That sounds good.
All right.
Cheers.
Awesome.

(01:23:55):
One of my, one of my favoritethings to say about business is
that, uh, the root word ofbusiness is what?
Busy.
Yeah.
Isn't that weird?
Is that really true?
Yeah.
Interesting.
Well, and it's part of like,there's, there's an economist I
used to follow and don't reallyanymore, but that's not just

(01:24:16):
cause I lost track frankly, buthe said the, the, the foundation
of all economics is two words,add value.
Yeah.
And you got to stay busy to addvalue.
Absolutely.
And you were talking aboutadding value to your clients and
their ad buying and beingdifferent in that regard than
being the creative force behindhitting the core of who somebody

(01:24:36):
is.
Hmm.
And adding value in how youcommunicate that, I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like that's the core of yourbusiness.
Kind of like how, what's yourcore?
What's, what's the core of yourbusiness?
The core of our business is, uh,uh, well, I can boil it down to
like, there's, there's four,like, I'll say the tenants
because the core can be defineda few different ways.
But I think what makes us, usis, uh, for very human things.

(01:24:59):
And I think there was a sentientmoment when I started this
agency that I probably wouldn'tbe able to do now.
I don't know, it must've beenblocked out or something because
I was like, how do we.
What are the four things aregoing to be, you know, four or
five things are going to be themost important to us?
Yeah, what's gonna make us usnot we're a comedy agency or you
know, my background like I didthis that and the other Right,
right.
I just I was part of we had tomeet.

(01:25:21):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly It's kindnessgenerosity trust and empathy.
Oh, well, that's awfully nice.
Well, I know it's very hippiedippie kindness generosity
Trust.
Trust.
And empathy.
Yes, sir.
Wow.
Uh, and um, those are ourguiding principles as a company.

(01:25:41):
Um, and whenever we're feelingoff or, you know, we feel like
we might've maybe lost a coupleof pitches in a row or
something, uh, or, you know, or,you know, just as, as a virtual
agency, because we live allover, we don't have an office to
talk about what's well, you canjust focus in on one of those at
a staff meeting.

(01:26:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You might be able to exactlymore than anything.
It's just like, you know, I haveto, you know, it's a helpful
reminder.
Just be like, This is a toughsituation.
I'm going to come into it.
Does this fit the filter?
Yeah, right.
You know, I need to remindmyself to be generous with my,
you know, my time and my energyand my, you know, my, my, my
vibe, you know, uh, or whateverthat might be.
Or, you know, like this is likevery, you know, functionally,

(01:26:25):
like I want to be as generouswith our, you know, money as
possible.
So you can pay as people pay ourpeople as much as, as we can
afford.
Right.
Right.
So it is those four things, man.
Like, uh, they, they came to mein one night.
No, no, but, but really it wasone of those things.
Like I remember writing it on awhiteboard when I was just, you
know, kind of thinking this,this agency up and, uh, and it

(01:26:49):
just like, they just stuck andeveryone was just like, yeah,
that's who we are.
That feels right for party land.
Did you see the values on theside of the tank?
I did not before.
Uh, we, so it's a, it's a longstory, but we updated our values
and they became kind of foo fooand you know, collaboration and
then a big long definition andstuff.
And last fall I was like.
Fuck all that.

(01:27:09):
Like what's what's simple getsdone and you know, we've got to
be able to communicate that andI've probably done a poor job of
it, but, um, be smart, be kind,be true, uh, be local, be the
change.
Be you nice.
Like for a founder owner, likeif you can be smart, you can be
kind, you can be true, staylocal.

(01:27:31):
You know, you don't have to staylocal.
You can build a national brandlike Cheap Ahead has here from
Northern Colorado and are youserving, like one of the things
I love about your business isyou're bringing all kinds of
money to Colorado from otherplaces.
And you're sending it back outto some of your contractors.
Um, but you're bringing it herefrom the big cities and stuff.
But we, we, you're almost like aprimary employer in that way.

(01:27:53):
But there was so, there was sucha rich history of advertising
agencies in Colorado, uh,specifically, uh, Crispin Porter
Bogusky.
Okay.
It was in Boulder.
They started in Miami and thencame to Boulder.
Okay.
One of the best ad agencies foryou.
Uh, yeah, 20 years.
I mean, like, uh, uh, Bogusky,he still, at least I think still

(01:28:14):
lives in Boulder.
Um, but there's a lot ofoffshoot.
You know, agencies, you know,very talented people, whether
it's a production zone orwhatever.
People move to Colorado bychoice.
Yeah, exactly.
You know, they stay in LA orstay in New York by convenience,
but.
It's funny because I think thatthe people who stay in this
would seem antithetical to, youknow, what we know of Colorado,

(01:28:38):
but they stay in San Francisco,sorry, in Los Angeles and in New
York because it's safe.
Yeah, because they're close tothe heartbeat.
Coming here is a lot like beinga pioneer in that way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, you're just like, I'mgonna work.
Or Austin is another one ofthose pioneering towns right
now.
Yep, yep.
Or Tennessee, parts ofTennessee.
Yeah, Nashville.

(01:28:58):
Yep, Nashville.
I have a friend who juststarted.
Even Knoxville, I think, alittle bit, or one of those
other towns.
Yep.
My friend Tom Hamling, uh, he,uh, opened a place called the
mayor, uh, in, in, uh, it's an,it's an, uh, another agency in,
in not, or sorry, in Nashville.
Um, you know, but so, so we'reall over the place, you know,
but, but, but really like thisis, uh, equidistant to both, you

(01:29:21):
know, close, right.
So it makes sense that you wouldbe here as an ad agency because
like, for those of us, mucheasier flights, like instead of
flying from LA and trying to gospend a weekend in New York or,
or.
Tuesday, Wednesday.
It's so much easier.
It's like, I'd much rather be ona three hour flight than a six
hour flight.
Totally.
And then the time changes thatmuch less too.
Yeah.

(01:29:41):
He just, you know, and like, youknow, plus it's just, it's kind
of so goddamn beautiful here.
You know, I'm going to say weput enough kind of Stuff from
your past into the story here,talking about weed farming and
things that we don't have to goall the way back through the
life journey where there are twoor three defining moments.
You mentioned eating mushrooms,but then you still try to sign

(01:30:03):
up for the Air Force after youate mushrooms.
Yeah, I did.
So, oh, we haven't even talked.
We're gonna have to have you fora while.
We're going to have to have youon for a number two episode.
Yeah, we'll, we'll just jump inthe, I love them.
I'm a once in the morning andonce at night kind of guy.
I dig it.
Yeah.
Um, but we just don't, don'thave the time and we always talk
about faith, family, andpolitics.

(01:30:25):
Do you want to get into it?
Yeah.
Alright.
Yeah, yeah.
Right now.
And so we're gonna, we're gonnado the Time Machine episode next
time.
We'll, we'll bump into you andyour little pot dealing family
in the rural Oregon.
Me just like, you know,traipsing through the woods with
my Seven year old carrying bigboy secrets.
Yeah, with my 80, uh, 80cc threewheeler and my BB gun, my dog.

(01:30:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Fuck yeah, man.
I dig it.
Um.
Where would you like to start onthe, on the faith?
Oh, and, and you want a littlebit more?
You know what?
I'm good.
I'm good.
Yeah, I'm, I'm there.
I was gonna say we, I'm gonna,okay, I'm good too, but Jill's
gonna pick me up.
So, which would you choose, um,for, like out of those three,
you just get one more littletaste, um, out of curiosity.

(01:31:07):
So the Maker's Mark from WilliamOliver's, the Old Elk, or the
Oak End?
You know what?
Uh, so we just did a, a pitchwith And we didn't really talk
about Old Elk yet.
No, we haven't yet.
Um, but we just did a, a, apitch with, um, the parent
company for Maker's Mark,they're called Suntory.

(01:31:27):
Okay.
It's a Japanese, uh Yeah, yeah.
liquor brand, you know, holdingcompany.
Yep, yep.
Uh, we didn't win, so I'm goingto put that aside.
I'm not bitter.
Sorry, I'm not bitter.
I loved them.
They were fucking great.
Like they're, they're soawesome.
And it wasn't a, it wasn'tmaker's mark.
It wasn't that, that specificgroup.
It was a new thing that theywere bringing over.
Uh, but I just, just because ofthat, uh, uh, I'm going to move

(01:31:48):
over to, I'm going to keep itlocal.
Uh, I would do the ax and theOak.
Okay.
Yeah.
You don't actually, we'll haveanother just a little bit.
I'll I'll go like I can do athird of a shot core shot.
Okay.
So faith, Family politics atyour discretion, you know, they
are so intertwined I'm gonnastart with I'm gonna start with

(01:32:10):
politics because that's good.
I think it's good with they are.
Yeah agreed.
I agree I'm gonna start withpolitics because I I feel like
it is wild time Yeah, it is andyou know, there's so many like
it is it probably is the onethat is the least Uh, important
to me, not that I don't careabout what's happening in the

(01:32:31):
world.
And I'm not involved in all Ikind of said, don't have an
opinion.
It just seems that, uh, it isthe one, and I have a wild
family, but politics isdefinitely the one that has the
most idiots involved.
And I'm just like, like, it islike, I mean, Look, if I was
going to write a TV show, whichI have before, yeah, I've
written for a TV show and, uh,you know, and I've written, you

(01:32:53):
know, pilots and stuff likethat.
If I was gonna do that, I wouldstart with how can I, how can I
take, uh, inspiration fromAmerican politics?
Cause it is so rich withcharacters.
Oh man.
And, and, and the plot linesgolden girls have got nothing on
the dementia person vases,orange man, bad.
I mean, it is, I'm going to sayI'm just for the sake of like

(01:33:15):
our listeners, because they'relike, you know, they don't come
here for this.
I'm sure.
I'm going to say that right downthe line, everyone, if you get
into politics.
The ego on you.
You think?
Really?
The ego on you.
I think for some people it'sservice oriented.
And then they get corrupted.
I think as you go up And thenthey get ruined.

(01:33:36):
I think as you go up is I wouldabsolutely say that Uh, want to
help on a civic level from, youknow, like a local, you know, or
even the County or whatever.
I believe that I could help nowthey wouldn't elect me because
I'm jackass, but, um, but Iwould love to help on a local
level, but as you march up theline and the Character that you

(01:33:58):
have to become and the, the, andthe, uh, right.
Well, especially with afundraising machine, like the
amount of dick you have to suck.
Well, there's that, but alsothe, the singular, actually,
that was a metaphor.
Well, you become a cartoon kindof, right.
So you think about Bugs Bunny.
So Bugs Bunny would do thingslike he would, he would, he

(01:34:18):
would, he would, he would dolike, you know, exactly what
Bugs Bunny would do in everysituation.
Right.
And those are my favorite kindof people.
Like, I think they're reallyfunny.
And I'd make ad campaigns aboutthem all the time.
Right.
That is what politicians are.
You are a one dimensional, Ionly do this.
I cannot do this or else I willoff the people that gave me
money.
I am, uh, financially beholdento this image that I have

(01:34:40):
created and sold to you.
And I can only do that.
Having people who are onedimensional lead our country is
to the, is, is, is to thedetriment of the future of our
country.
So it's all about funding iswhat I think I'm hearing.
It is, it is.
But like, you know, like we'repeople.
So just the really rich peoplewho just tell us all what to do.

(01:35:03):
That would be better.
I mean, if you think about it,like, think about like, think
about the constitution, right?
We, the people, right.
That's how it starts.
Yeah.
So you're an individual Libertyguy.
I am sounds like a little bit, Iwouldn't even go that far.
Like, I don't even think I'vesolidified that, you know,
because like it changes sooften.
I'm just like, so it's like,it's like, The whole process is
so boring to me.
I'm just like, what the fuck?

(01:35:23):
You just don't really care.
It's don't care.
It's just that I don't knowwhere to jump in, you know?
I mean, like, I know what I, Iknow what my values are as a
human being.
I know, uh, so let's talk aboutthat.
Who, who earns your votes?
Like, are you a party overperson, person, or are you a
person over party person?
Like, what do you care about?

(01:35:43):
Well, I mean, every four yearsis different.
Right.
Right.
You know, we don't have to talknational scale.
Like, what do you really, like,small business is pretty hard
sometimes, right?
Like there's a, there's a,there's an obstacle to getting
something to be sustainable, youknow, and, and, and then there's

(01:36:08):
an obstacle to scaling it, topaying your people as much as
you can and still send your kidsto college.
Um, like what are some of thethings that are important to you
in that space?
I think that business, and it'scertainly on a, on a local
level, business is what keeps usthe, you know, keeps our
communities going, right?
Like we live in a, an, an areathat it doesn't have a ton of,

(01:36:30):
well, actually, you know, FortCollins actually does, but like,
let's say the most of ruralAmerica doesn't have a lot of,
you know, big businesses.
They don't have Amazon.
They don't have, you know,totally, they don't have Boeing.
They don't have, you know,they've got a great elevator.
Yeah.
Cafe, you know, a school system.
Yeah.
Right.
So what really keeps those, youknow, those communities, you
know, together, if somebody canbe a small manufacturer and

(01:36:52):
employ 22 people, that's a hugedeal.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
Uh, so I believe in supportingsmall business, so whatever
party at whichever time is goingto believe in that, because I, I
mean, as much as I want to say,like, you know, They're like,
everybody has their thing andthis is our fucking ticket and
whatever, like it, it changes,you know what I mean?
It's like, you know, even, evenTrump is like, you know, like he

(01:37:14):
doesn't have a real consistentopinion on abortion.
Totally.
Right.
Well, and he's kind of part ofthe, his whole mega thing is
maybe some nationalisticprotection after Republicans for
a long time were like freemarkets.
Let's just.
Let China sell us everything.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
And then, and then he's like,we're not going to do that

(01:37:35):
anymore.
Yeah.
Like, like, yeah.
How about, what do you thinkabout, I mean, we just had an
assassination attempt, like noshit, like four days ago.
Is this the first podcast sincethat time?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I've, I've mocked theBiden debate or I don't know why
I called the Biden debatebecause that was the headline
coming out of it.
It was Biden, you know, like he,he didn't have his best day.

(01:37:57):
And I have a lot of peoplecoming on that are just anybody
but Trump.
Yeah, frankly, like probablyhalf my guests are like, I don't
care if he's retarded or avegetable, I'm not voting for
Donald Trump.
I've been, I've been advocatingfor RFK.
Yeah.
I think RFK would probably bethe best.
Cause I do think that DonaldTrump is corrupted by the
pharma, uh, industrial complex.

(01:38:18):
Of course he is.
He's a businessman.
At least that, right?
They got his beef pockets.
Of course he is.
Right.
Like, and then the thing islike, he's so inconsistent.
If there so much of what hesays, like, and he'll say,
right.
I don't trust him.
No, no, you can't.
You can't trust that man.
So can I have you vote for RFK?
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
Yeah, sure.
Like he should be the Democraticnominee instead of I can be

(01:38:39):
bought with whiskey and useinstead of Biden.
Like, I'm so embarrassed for ourcountry.
'cause don't, don't, don't gimmethat shit that people didn't
know that Biden should have beenin abreast home or whatever you
call that.
I mean, like years ago theyknew, they knew what it was.
I knew it in 2020.
Yeah.
They like, they knew by the way,they hit him in 2020 and just.
Like they amp him up onfreaking, uh, uppers for a few

(01:39:02):
short press conferences in thestate of the union.
But that doesn't hide the factthat he's lost his, like he was
never that smart and he's losthis mojo.
And so he used to be when he wasyounger, he was a firecracker,
but he was a plagiarizer and hewas always ambitious, but he
wasn't ever that smart in myopinion, because he wouldn't
have caught, caught, caught.

(01:39:23):
Plagiarizing then, like, don'tbe a dumbass.
I know, but that's what I'mtalking about with like,
politics, right?
But he was at least capable.
You get up to a certain point,you become a cartoon.
Right.
Right, and so Well, and so he'sbought and paid for Yeah.
Alzheimer's patients?
Well, who knows?
Yeah, I mean, I can't comment onthat, but I certainly can say
that Uh, I think the two partysystem is broken.

(01:39:46):
I'm just going to go back tothat.
Yeah.
I'll be one of those people.
Two party system is broken.
So you, you are on board forvoting RFP?
Absolutely.
I love that.
Well, why not?
Cause he should be the nominee,but the Democrats would never
have him.
Cause they couldn't control him.
I wish that there was anopportunity for a third party
candidate that wasn't RossPerot, you know, kind of a
situation, you know, where itwas just like, there was an

(01:40:06):
opportunity for there to be anactual, like, not just a 50, 50,
an actual uniter.
Yeah.
Right.
Like something that like, youknow, people could say like, you
know, I'm.
It's, I'm not binary like that,right?
Like, I'm not, like, red, I'mnot blue, I'm kind of, like,
sometimes I'm this, sometimesI'm that, you know, whatever,
I'm not speaking for myself, I'mjust speaking for most people.
Because I think most people are,you know, a version of both.

(01:40:28):
Should we just do a speed round?
Yeah, sure.
Guns.
I own one.
Abortion?
Uh, uh, I think that it is upto, gosh, you know, you caught
me off, uh, I think it is up tothe person, the individual.
I'll leave it up to theindividual.
The person carrying it?
Yes.
Um, your baby mama at eightmonths wants to have an
abortion, decides to have anabortion without your consent.

(01:40:50):
How do you feel?
Uh, well, I wish I would have asay in that.
Uh, but you know, at eightmonths, I'm assuming that she, I
would trust this person enoughto know that there was probably
a, no, it's just superinconvenient.
And she's really mad at you froma Facebook post that you put
online.
Oh my goodness.
Like I would be devastated.
Fair.
I'm just saying it's complex.
Yeah.
Um, let's talk aboutimmigration, um, open borders,

(01:41:13):
uh, path to citizenship,deportation, path decision,
citizenship for anybody that'sbeen here so far.
Yeah.
And.
Educational on that path, likelong, hard seven year path.
I think, I think that people whocome here are coming here not
only to, I mean, there's a,hopefully most of them are here
trying to come here to have abetter life.

(01:41:34):
Yeah.
Myriad of reasons that runningfrom something, you know, like,
you know, they see all theseparents are from Mexico.
She was born in SouthernCalifornia, bilingual and she's
awesome.
I'm so proud of her.
Like she's upscaled herself somuch working for us and I'm
proud of them.
Yeah, no, I just think thatlike, I would probably expect if
I was going to go to anothercountry that they would say

(01:41:55):
like, Hey man, it's cool if youcome here because you're going
to bring value or, you know,like, Hey, that thing that you
were running from is reallyfucking scary.
But when you come here, you haveto contribute.
Then you have to be an American.
Yeah, well, or you have to paytaxes, you have to find a way to
pay taxes, you know, you'relike, you know, can you vote
before you pay taxes?
Or become a citizen?

(01:42:19):
Can you, can you vote first?
You know, I think that there's apackage deal that you get when
you accomplish a certain set oftasks.
Okay.
Right.
And some of that is Even a greencard maybe doesn't get it.
You can be here.
You can stay here permanently.
Not a visa.
I would say no visa.
Like if you got a green card,you're a little bit more
established and like, you'regoing to be here for a longer
term.
And like, I think you should beable to vote.

(01:42:41):
Um, Ukraine.
Oh my God.
Fuck Russia.
Fuck Russia.
Okay.
So you, whatever it takes, wecan go broke, put Ukraine and
NATO.
I think, I think Ukraine hasRussia starts World War III.
Well, that's Russia's fault.
That's not mine.
Well, but you don't think that'scomplex with the way that NATO

(01:43:01):
is slowly expanded.
It's very simple.
Russia bad, everybody else good.
Okay.
All right.
Okay.
And I'm fucking around.
I shouldn't be that, uh, thatcavalier about this subject.
Um, I think that, uh, that Putinis.
Uh, is you got to stand up to, Ithink, I think, I think Putin is
Russia.

(01:43:22):
And so it's like, you know, it'snot so simple to say like Russia
bad, because Russia also good,you know, there's, there's a lot
of good people, like a lot ofgood things to come out of
Russia.
I think their leadership iscorrupt.
I think that they areMachiavellian.
I think that they are dangerous,dictatorial, all those things.
And, uh, they're, they'reliterally, I think, uh,

(01:43:42):
embarking on a genocidalEndeavor in a country that they
think Well, they're a dyingnation otherwise, in some ways.
Um, just because of their owndemographics and what they've
done here with this war.
I mean, they just want to goback to where they were, which
was like, you know, a massiveworld power.
They feel like they, you know,have lost And they deserve it
somehow.
Yeah, yeah, they deserve it.
Do you think, uh, Putin is morelikely to back down to Trump

(01:44:04):
than he would be to Biden?
No.
He didn't give a fuck.
He didn't care.
Okay.
Would you if you were Putin?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think so.
I mean, unless knowing that theguy across the way was a little
bit crazy, um, but he's just,but he's earned, but he's
earned, he's going to keep partof a good part of Ukraine.
Like that's how it's going toshake down.
Honestly, is Russia is going tokind of keep Trump's going to

(01:44:24):
win.
Russia is going to keep whatthey've claimed was a Russian
Ukraine is going to join NATO.
And then they're going to have alittle line there somewhere
across Ukraine.
And that'll be a friction pointthat we can always use.
Spur up the military industrialcomplex economy if we need to.
And then Putin's gonna die andthen something else is gonna
happen.
Right, who the hell knows.

(01:44:46):
Who the hell knows?
I'm just sad that people aredying.
Like, that's really sad.
Let's talk about your kids.
Mm.
A good segue.
We'll go to the family thing,yeah.
Um, well, we can talk abouttheir mom, too.
Uh, so we do, we'll start with aone word description of your
children, these four to nineyear olds.
Mm.
So, uh, let's start with the,let's start with the youngest
this time, just cause this is apretty weird episode, we'll just

(01:45:08):
change it up, so a one word forthe youngest, and then a little
expansion.
Mm.
Uh, James, uh, uh, you know, he,he is, you know, it's not, it's
actually quite pertinent toJames.
Uh, he is the one that, uh, he'sfour years old.
He's turning five in August.

(01:45:28):
He will, he prefers to wearjeans.
Dresses and beautiful things.
And he even says boy music orgirl music based on who's
singing it.
And so it's like, he lovesTaylor Swift.
He loves JoJo Seawide.
Like he, like, he has a verystrong opinion about his, his
whole, like what he loves in theworld and he is very beauty

(01:45:50):
focused, like, he's just like, Ijust want, he's like, I want to
be beautiful.
Could be a fashion designer atsome point or something.
In fact, he wants fashion designlessons.
He's like, dad, can I getfashion design lessons?
And I'm like, Man, I don't evenknow how to track that down, but
I will figure it out.
Actually, CSU has actually aschool of fashion design.
Do they really?
An underappreciated one, yeah.
No shit.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, so he's, he's four yearsold.

(01:46:11):
He dresses primarily in dresses.
Uh, and he loves Pink, and heloves Taylor Swift, and he knows
every song.
How fascinating.
And that is, uh, that is justhis existence, man.
Like, he is just so focused onthat.
Do you have a one word for him?
He's so complex.
He's such a complex littlechild.
Uh, I would say, uh, his oneword is, I would say beauty.

(01:46:36):
Like he's, he's hyper focused onbeauty and he, and he can
identify it and he knows whenit's something is not beautiful
and he has a very, he's so faraway from my own experience that
I can't even really.
I wish that I, I wish that I,I'm all about utility almost
more.
Yeah, me too.
So, or something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wish that my, I woke up in themorning and was just like, I'm

(01:46:58):
gonna put on something beautifultoday, What a, like what a, like
what a gift.
I was like, Matt's prettyinteresting.
I gotta wear my orange pantstoday.
What shirt goes with my orangepants.
Oh yeah, that one does.
Floor one That has the same, thesame, the salmon flowers on it.
The blue ones.
Yeah.
I love it.
How about your middle?
Okay, well, okay.
Uh, major.
Major is my, uh, mom's maidenname.

(01:47:23):
Oh, cool.
So it's a family name.
Major is, uh, he's, he's, uh, hejust turned six.
Um, he is so gosh.
He's, uh, he's, he's veryemotional.
Uh, and not in like a, I'm goingto freak out.

(01:47:44):
No, no, but he's, he's like, buthe's like, uh, he, he will
travel the entire emotionalspectrum over the course of a
day and spend time at eachcrucial points.
Uh, you know, he could wake upin the morning, just be a
little, like, he's like, I'm notgoing to eat this bagel and
you're not going to make me.
And I'm pissed about it.
Why is this bagel even here?

(01:48:04):
And then like three minuteslater, he's going to be like,
dad.
I want a squirt gun because Iwant to spray water up into the
world and make it rain on myfriends and have them think that
that feels good.
Like he's, he's like such a Sowith all my kids, and so this
actually might be a relationalmaybe, yeah, this, this might

(01:48:25):
help this discussion for all mykids.
We talk about their superpowerand it is exactly what you're
talking about.
Like what's the one word, uh,James brings beauty to all of
our interactions, right?
And that, that like beautiful islike his, uh, for major he's,
uh, very, uh, he feels verydeeply.
He's a deep feeler and he exudesthose feelings, but he is.

(01:48:48):
Also expressive too.
Yeah.
And he's expressive and he's,and he is, uh, influenced by the
feelings around him.
So if things are tense, you cantell that he gets like, yeah.
And I will say this.
So like, you know, I made lightof it earlier, but like, I, I am
a level, uh, level one autistic.

(01:49:08):
Level one is like not what theyused to call, uh, functional
autism, uh, as opposed to, youknow, uh, I'm a functioning
autist kind of a thing.
I'm a, I'm a ADHD and maybe aslight level of autism are my.
Nephew who was just wrestling ina national wrestling tournament
camp thing is like, he's so muchlike me, but he's like fairly

(01:49:32):
autistic.
So I'm, I'm, I'm at leastfringing on it, you know?
So I understand you.
So autism is a very complicated,uh, you know, superpower of
sorts too.
It is absolutely.
If you appreciate it and if youlean into it, you know, so it's
like my, my hyperfixation, youknow, like all the things, you
know, that come from it, likehave made me the person I am
today, as you would expect.

(01:49:54):
but it is paternally passeddown.
Uh, I wonder sometimes if myboys have it because boys are
more susceptible to it.
Um, but major going back tothat, but they, they are very,
uh, they, they fixate and theyare sensitive.
They're very sensitive.

(01:50:14):
Uh, and, uh, so, so majors.
Which is a big, like, especiallyin the modern world.
Like, boys that can actuallyfeel emotion.
And I'd encourage that.
As long as they stay men.
Yeah, exactly, and they will.
Even if they don't.
Or if they don't, right?
I'm not trying to say that likeI think gay is better than
trans, personally.

(01:50:35):
Like, not to get back intopolitics or whatever, but if
your youngest son ends up Beinga gay man and a fashion
designer, I think that's waybetter than cutting his junk off
and trying to turn into a girl.
You know, uh, and I respect youropinion on that.
Yeah.
I will say that, um, whatevermakes someone feel whole.

(01:50:57):
Because there's nothing morealienating in this world than
feeling alone.
Yeah, fair, fair.
And recognizing, please, thatPeople's minds are delicate and
they get enough of the wrongkinds of messages or hope in the
wrong kind of thing that itcouldn't be destructive.
I think that it's important.
Like I think we're going througha bit of a cultural,

(01:51:19):
psychological significant thingright now.
I totally agree.
Like it's a contagion.
Like maybe there's some people,yes.
I do think that parents have aresponsibility to not like
enforce their perception of theworld on their children.
And just don't jump to iteither.
Sure.
I mean, there's, there'sextremes on both sides.
I mean, it is, it is a stickyplace to go complicated because

(01:51:42):
I also don't want thegovernment.
Telling people what they shoulddo.
Yeah, right.
Like it's all hard.
It is we have seven minutes leftFaith we haven't touched it
Yeah, I went through a manicmoment of hyperfixation.
So again, it could go back tothe autism thing.

(01:52:03):
Um, but, uh, there was a pointin my life where there one day,
and this is water right there,by the way.
Yeah, I've enjoyed it.
I've enjoyed it when we were onour break.
Sorry, that was so rude of me tojust interrupt you.
Well, everyone was urinating.
So I was like, why not?
Like make more urine, um, by wayof drinking, uh, water.
Um, so, You became hyperfixated.

(01:52:25):
So there was a moment I woke upone day.
Okay.
And, uh, and it literally wasexactly this.
I woke up in the morning, uh, itwas about, uh, six, five or six
years ago.
And, and I was like, I'm notChristian.
I was, I was, I was raised.
I don't believe in, I don'tdon't believe in Jesus as like,

(01:52:46):
you know, the Christian orCatholic, you know, virgin or
whatever.
Okay.
Uh, and then I was like, If Idon't believe, if I'm not
Christian or Catholic and, youknow, or I'm not Jewish, Jewish
or anything like that, I'm not,I don't come from those worlds.
I mean, of course, you know, youcan become Buddhist or whatever,
but like, you know, like Ididn't assign to a, to a, uh,

(01:53:06):
uh, you know, a religion.
I was like, well, I must be, Imust believe in science.
And then I was like, I don'tknow shit about science.
And so I went into thissituation where I was like, I'm
going to figure this out.
I started learning everything Icould.
About, uh, life as we know it.

(01:53:27):
We'll just put it that way, youknow, all the difference, like
it's like, you know, scientificevolution, big bang chemistry,
biology, geology, like inastrology, all this stuff.
Along the way, I was like, Ohfuck, science doesn't have all
the answers either.
And I got fucking scared.
I was like, Oh shit.
Interesting.

(01:53:47):
If science is wrong in a lot ofways, because I was able to go
through stuff and they werelike, we think that carbon
dating, or we think that, youknow, this or whatever, like,
there's a lot of supposition.
Then what is this circuit me?
Is this before?
Yeah, yeah, this was like 2017ish.
So I guess it would be six orseven years ago now.

(01:54:09):
Uh, and, um, and I was like,well, I'm going to figure out, I
think that.
And I, at this, like I call it amanic moment, um, I was like, I
think I can figure out thereason why we exist.
Yeah.
I can figure out the, the secretto That's pretty humble.
I was like, well, I know, Iknow, for real.
Sorry.
And I was like, no, but I know,it was crazy.
I was like, I think I can figureout the meaning of life.

(01:54:31):
Okay.
Sorry, I'm not laughing.
I'm laughing with you.
Dude, you are, uh, because it iscrazy.
But I feel like, at least forme, I feel like I did.
Okay, and what is it?
Oh, and this is, everyone'sgonna be like, No shit, you're
not smart, or whatever.
But like, I, I, so I had thiswhole Um, like theory from like,

(01:54:54):
so this is like fresh plate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, like from a new religioncould start here.
Yeah, exactly.
From primordial ooze, right?
Like what we are now and why weare here and what's going to
happen.
Uh, and, and, but it's reallysweet.
Like we've been looking forsomething to tie everything
together.
There you go.
Um, and what's funny is thatlike, after I got to that place
and I was like, okay, oh my God,I have this fucking, like this

(01:55:14):
narrative, this thing that makessense to me.
And then I found out that a lotof it was on ancient aliens.
Yeah.
that I probably heard while Iwas asleep and it fell asleep,
TV shows.
I'm joking, but like, um, uh,but really what it comes down to
is there's, and I think ifyou're dear listener, if you're,
if you're paying attentionstill, uh, I have a, um, like

(01:55:37):
one of my, one of my things is,is hyper focusing down to the
simplest form of something.
And, uh, it is fear and love.
Oh, well, fear not is said like350 times in the Bible.
100%.
There it is again.
Uh, but it's either, you know,and every decision that you make

(01:55:58):
I believe is a version of fearand love.
Interesting.
And love is like, I trust thatthis is going to happen.
This is going to be positive.
Like this is going to behappiness or whatever it is.
And then there's over here,like, I'm going to be more
careful.
Right.
Right.
And so you start to think.
Well, and like something likesmoking this joint right now is
a little bit fear based.

(01:56:19):
Like it's meant to kind ofcreate a little separation
between you and the world oruniverse maybe.
Or is it?
Maybe not.
I would say I've definitelybonded over a joint too.
I would argue that I would argueotherwise.
I would say like that, thatlosing, uh, like being more
inhibited, like, or sorry,sorry, losing, losing inhibition

(01:56:40):
is a commitment to, uh, trustand trust in the, in the, in the
bond that you and I have createdtoday and also trust in yourself
and trust in like the energy isjust going to flow through and
like you have now opened thedoor.
to a more realistic conversationthan you would have otherwise.
Right.
Well, and I find that veryintriguing.

(01:57:03):
And I think, you know, I thinkJesus would approve of, like,
looking at your world and yourdecisions as Whether or not
they're based in fear or love.
I absolutely agree.
And if you screen it throughlove and you do it, it probably
does the trick.
Yeah, man.
So I, uh, so I, I went throughthis whole thing.

(01:57:24):
I was just like, and I have a,like, an understanding of, like,
how humans evolved, why theyevolved, why they evolved so
quickly.
I mean, it is just like, I mean,I've, like, Have you written
this?
I've written it down.
Yeah, it is.
It is a thing.
Is this a future movie script?
No, no, probably not.
Like, this is kind of crazy, butI do believe that, you know, I

(01:57:44):
believe in, uh, in, in a higherself, like not, not necessarily
God, but I do believe a greaterforce.
I, I believe there is a creativeforce, something, you know, Made
the whole thing go bang in 13billion years ago or whatever
like what's that?
Oh, I believe that there was anenergy that moved something
forward I think that we can onlyunderstand a big bang because we

(01:58:05):
don't understand Yeah, cuz likewe understand things and what's
his name said unmoved mover.
Yeah, right.
We understand things in likefive fuses, you know, it's like,
like cause and reaction.
Like that's how our brain works.
I think that there was somethingprobably way more complex and
dimensional than we would everbe able to understand.
Perhaps something outside of ouruniversity.
Yeah.
But I do believe in spirits.

(01:58:26):
I do believe in the, we comeback here.
I do believe in.
So where do you think the wholeBible and Jesus story and stuff
came from?
Oh, just metaphor andimagination, right?
Yeah.
In the same way that twinlanguage develops between a
couple of girls in Kansas orwhatever.
Yeah, I think it's just, youknow, I mean, humans are, but
over, but I think I would haveto say at the very least, uh, a

(01:58:48):
super hyper distilled wisdom inmy opinion, at least it comes
from a, a place that we can'taccess.
Easily as human beings whenwe're awake, right?
It is something that is, youknow, you like, uh, that we only
get to feel in certainsituations, right?
Like, so think about like this,uh, the French call an orgasm,

(01:59:09):
like the little death, right?
Which we all, you know, we'veall seen that movie, but if you,
uh, in my experience, uh,playing music with people.
Transcripts provided byTranscription Outsourcing, LLC.
I also think that fighting withsomeone, have you ever been in a

(01:59:31):
fight with, a fist fight withsomeone?
Have you ever gotten in a fightand like an actual Not like a
long one like I I confronted aguy that was Abusing his
girlfriend one time and hepopped me in the mouth and
dropped me.
Yeah, that was the end of thatif there's a I've been in I've
been I was proud of that.
Yeah.
Well, there you go.
Yeah, fuck Yeah, man Like atleast you broke that up and she

(01:59:51):
broke up with him soon after andshe was dating this loser for
like a year Before that good foryou, man It's high school.
You change people's lives.
I do.
Yeah, I try to, um, but, but,you know, getting in a fight
with someone is where to like,essentially like all
consciousness goes away and feelstarts to take over.
Right.
And we stop like, I'm going todo X and like your, if this,

(02:00:13):
then that brain goes away andyou just start to feel like that
is where our souls start to takeover.
Okay.
And the, and the humanexperience.
So it was a soul, an enduringforce.
Oh, absolutely.
Okay.
A hundred percent.
So like it kind of swirls intothe universal consciousness for
a while and then it gets to bean organism for a while kind of

(02:00:33):
thing or something?
So, uh, I, I believe there's, Ibelieve there's a heaven.
I believe that there is a placethat we all, that souls exist.
Uh, not in the way, not in thebiblical sense.
Sure.
It's more of a, it's not quiteas conscriptive.
Maybe it's a little bit more.
Well, let's put it this way.
Flowy.
If heaven was like church.

(02:00:54):
It would fucking suck.
Right.
Boring.
Yeah.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Like, I want to go to, I want togo to a place where I can feel
all the feels and I can, I canrelive all the things.
And of course, like, you know,our human experience, like, you
know, doesn't translate upthere.
Well, there has to be high andlow moments too, right?
Like we're kind of thought ofit.
It's like paradise all the time.
But what is an orgasm withoutbeing cold sometimes?

(02:01:16):
You have to have the, the, thepositive, like love can't exist
without fear.
If you bring it down to thosetwo things, like they are, they
are.
intrinsically linked and they,it's like, it's like the, uh,
the devil wouldn't exist if Godwasn't there.
Sure.
Right.
I dig it.
Um, so anyways, I mean, we cango into that another time.
Yeah.
We're going to book a number twoand when we come back around,

(02:01:38):
it'll be fun.
Um, number last question.
Yeah.
The loco experience, thecraziest experience that you're
willing to share with ourlisteners in this setting after
three bourbons.
I, I mean, do you think, do youfeel like you're going to buzz
it at all from me smoking thatjoint?
I didn't feel that.
I do feel a couple of thedrinks.

(02:01:59):
Um, My crazy experience, a crazyexperience, the loco experience,
uh, that you'd like to share.
Oh my God.
I've had so many, like, there'sso many that are rushing through
my brain right now.
Oh, I mean, and there's some ofthem that are so great.
And then there's others like,like, like I lost, I've lost
friends, you know, I've, I'veseen, you know, uh, okay, so

(02:02:23):
let's do, let's do two things.
Let's do one that was, um,Advancing, um, and then one that
was, um, maybe challenging.
Okay.
The advancing one, I can go to apretty specific one.
And we've, I've talked about acouple of times here already,

(02:02:44):
but, uh, the moment when DannyMcBride pulled me, like, he's
like, Hey man, can I talk to youafter we, we were, we had just
shot the second campaign we'ddone too.
Uh, and he was like, Hey man,can Can I, can I talk to you?
It was the last day of shooting,uh, that we had wrapped on the
last day.
Uh, and he, he was just like,Hey, come to the trailer.
Um, and then he started kissingme.

(02:03:06):
No, I'm just kidding.
Uh, he pulled me in there and hewas just like, he was like, Hey
man, like you've written some ofour favorite Kenny powers jokes
ever.
I don't want to like, you know,fuck with this, you know,
advertising thing that you havegoing on, but we're, you know,
need a little bit of help withwriting season three.
Would you be interested incoming and, you know, writing
for season three of Eastboundand Down?

(02:03:26):
Oh, cool.
And, and I was like, fuck myadvertising thing.
I would like, Oh my God, yes.
You know, and I had reallysupportive boss.
It was just, you know, uh, at anagency called 72 and Sonny's
still around.
So one of the best agencies inthe world.
Um, so making great work.
Uh, and so you like bounce.
And I was encouraged to bouncefrom that job to go and do that.
And he was just like, go, youcan always come back to 72.

(02:03:47):
If I was a good podcast host, Iwould have watched some of that.
Season and stuff.
Cause you, in our phone call, wetalked about, well, you can now,
you can go, I will.
Yeah.
Everybody should we'll link it.
Yeah.
And, uh, and so that, that, thatwas, that was like one of my
heroes asking me to come overand be a part of his world and
then getting to like work withWill Ferrell on a daily basis

(02:04:10):
and Craig Robinson and meetMatthew Conahay and work with
him.
I mean, it was just, it was oneof the most, uh, surreal.
and, uh, transcendental.
Moments of my life by far.
Would you like, do you haveimaginations of doing like some
standup comedy or something?

(02:04:33):
There's people that are outthere that are really good at
that So i'm more of like hangout in the back and you want to
be do you want to lift up the Iwant I'll be really cool.
I like someone who's a greatperformer to do that stuff you
know, I wouldn't mind you know,and i've written for those kinds
of things and uh, I I'm, i'm notthe one that stand up there and
just be like guess what but likemost You Uh, like SNL, right?

(02:04:55):
SNL writers.
Most of them can transition overinto and be on, you know, on
stage.
A lot of them have.
Yeah, a lot of them have.
Uh, and I, I could, but it'sjust not, it's not my
proficiency.
You shrink away from it a littlebit.
Yeah.
Yeah, me too.
But like, I love this where Ican have a conversation with
somebody and put the focus onthem.
Yeah, me too.
That's fine.
I don't really want them tofocus on me.
Yeah, I love to watch otherpeople get the, get the shine.

(02:05:15):
Yeah, like, you're so muchsmarter than I am.
Like, and better looking.
They're so good at it.
Your cock is so big.
It's like, go fuck, man.
Okay, so now the, so that wasthe advancing one, I suppose?
Yes, yeah.
And now a, uh, challenging one.
Loco experience or yeah, likeeven if you just got so wasted

(02:05:36):
one time.
I couldn't find the elevator Imean Madonna like pick me up
That's happened so many times meand Madonna assorted past You
know, I'm just gonna say thatlike Uh, and I won't get
specific just because, you know,like that, some of that stuff is
personal, but like what I'verealized is that, and this is

(02:06:01):
not an excuse, but your trauma,the things that you've
experienced in your life,whether it was your fault or not
or whatever, but the experiencesthat you have can have a
cumulative effect on the, thedecisions that you make as a
grown adult and you, um, for as,as responsible as we all try to

(02:06:23):
be.
Thank you.
and want to be for our actions,especially if, you know, like if
we've gone through it and she'slike, you know what, the most
important thing that of themistakes that I've made is that
me taking is that I, that I needto take, uh, uh, uh, like
accountability for them.
I need to be responsible forthem.
I need to say like, Hey, youknow what?
That was my fault.
I fucked up.
And here's all I'm going tochange.

(02:06:44):
Um, The biggest thing that wecan do as humans that I've
found, because I have made thosemistakes, I have gone through
those trials and I have come outthe other side.
Uh, I've gone into them, uh, andcome out of them fucking broken

(02:07:04):
in my life.
I've hit rock bottom.
Um, but the hardest thing to doout of rock bottom is to stay
there.
It is, uh, it is hard for all ofus because we're very quick to
dismiss.
Like, it's like, all right, Iwent through that thing and I'm
fucking better.
Now, the hardest thing abouthitting rock bottom is that you

(02:07:28):
have to stay there for the restof your life.
It's like being an alcoholic,hold on to a certain extent.
You have to stay there through,you have to have one, one foot
in the grave, so to speak,because if you forget.
Where you came from, then youwill never truly be fully healed
for the rest of your life.
I believe that you always haveto remember, and it can become a

(02:07:49):
strength because you rememberthe, the, the truth of humanity
is that we fail.
The truth of our existence isthat it's hard.
Wasn't that one of your things?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Kindness.
Yeah.
Empathy.
It's like, so if you have thegood fortune, and I do mean it
like that to hit rock bottom,your Opportunity to be a more

(02:08:15):
empathetic human being isgreater because you've been at
the worst.
You've hurt people.
you've helped people, you'vehurt yourself, you've helped
yourself, you know, likewhatever you would like, however
you want to draw that diagram.
Um, the most important thingthat you can do coming out of
that is to never forget whereyou were a little bit better

(02:08:36):
every day, every month,absolutely.
Every year.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so next time we're going totalk about music.
Cool.
We're going to talk about likechildhood.
Yeah.
Being in this, Drug cartel?
Yeah.
No, not really.
It was kind of, yeah.
Anyway, yeah, no, no, no shit.
Um, and we're going to talkabout your kid's mom, uh, which

(02:08:58):
I believe is someone we'vetalked about already, but not
much about, you know?
Yep.
And, um, we'll, uh, it'll befun.
Yeah, we'll go.
Should we go tequila next time?
Yeah, let's do it.
We'll do three tequilas.
My friend, thank you.
This'll be fun.
That was so fun.
All right, cheers.

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