EXPERIENCE 212 | Jack & Ginger Graham - Owners of Ginger and Baker, Veteran CEO’s Building Northern Colorado Community - Together - The LoCo Experience

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Ginger Graham returns to theLoco Experience Studio this
week, and this time brings herhunky husband, Jack.
Jack Graham came to Fort Collinsto play quarterback for CSU and
was drafted into the NFL for theMiami Dolphins.
In his post football career,Jack quickly became an
innovative disruptor in thereinsurance industry, and he
founded InternationalCatastrophic Insurance Managers,

(00:20):
distributing risk from naturaldisasters such as hurricanes and
earthquakes.
And he was recognized as theErnst Young Entrepreneur of the
Year in 2003.
He returned to Fort Collins andled the charge to build a new
football stadium, and he went onto the role of Athletic Director
at CSU.
Ginger Graham is a country galfrom Arkansas, who earned a
Harvard MBA and went on tobecome CEO of several companies,

(00:42):
including a Fortune 500 and aNASDAQ 100 firm.
And she makes the best pies westof the Mississippi.
And she's on my short list offavorite people.
Since Ginger has sharedpreviously, we've focused in on
Jack's journey in this one,including his journey in
football and reinsurance, andthe challenges around the
stadium project and tour of dutywith CSU Athletics.
The Grams share the short storyof their romance and their why

(01:05):
in building Ginger and Baker,and Ginger settles my fears
about Ozempic and similar weightloss drugs, which I didn't
recall she had been involved indeveloping.
And we talk about all the greatthings going on in Northern
Colorado now, and the evenbetter times ahead.
Let's have some fun.

(01:27):
Welcome to the Low CoveExperience podcast.
On this show, you'll get to knowbusiness and community leaders
from all around NorthernColorado and beyond.
Our guests share their stories,business stories, life stories,
stories of triumph and oftragedy, and through it all,
you'll be inspired andentertained.
These conversations are real andraw, and no topics are off
limits.
So pop in a breath mint and getready to meet our latest guest.

(01:55):
Welcome back to the LocoExperience Podcast.
I'm here today with Jack andGinger Graham, and Jack is a
former athletic director forCSU.
He is a business executive witha great history, as well as a
former star quarterback at CSU.
And Ginger is one of my favoritepeople, as well as the owner
operator of Loco Experience.

(02:16):
The Ginger and Baker multiplexhere in Fort Collins.
So, uh, I guess first, uh,Ginger, thanks for coming back
around and thanks for, forbringing Jack.
Absolutely.
I like hanging out with him.
Did you get voluntold for this?
You know, I'm an easy target.
I was happy to come and I'm gladto be here.
That's awesome.
Thanks.
Good to be with you.

(02:37):
Um, Mr.
Ginger Graham was thealternative suggestion I heard
there, so.
No, just Mr.
Jack, you know.
Sorry, Mr.
Ginger, yeah.
Yeah.
Can we start with, uh, let'stalk about the romance.
Like, when did you guys firstmeet and how long before the
first date?
We met on our first date.
Oh, you did?

(02:57):
Yeah, blind date.
You were set up?
Oh, blind date.
Yeah, blind date.
Okay.
Yeah, I had a business partnerthat Ginger went to business
school with.
Okay.
And, um.
He was sick and tired of mebeing miserable, and he said,
I've met a woman who's just asmiserable as you are, and I
think you ought to meet her.
And, um, he described her to me,and I said, you know, sure, you
know, but I figured it wouldnever go any further than that,

(03:19):
but he gave me her phone number,and so I called him, and I mean,
you should tell the story, youalways tell it better than I do.
Well, he called, I was Perturbedbecause these two friends from
business school, uh, Wendy andTom gave Jack my phone number
without my permission, which wasnot okay with me.
But back then there was ananswering machine and the one

(03:41):
message was from Wendy.
Hi, I've met him.
His name is Jack Graham becauseI had been with a group of
girlfriends and they wereharassing me about not dating
and I said, Well, every man Iknow either works for me or is
one of my customers.
And so I can't date and theydecided they were going to fix
it for me.
And so then she called and said,I have found him.

(04:02):
His name is Jack Graham.
And the next message on myanswer machine was his voice.
And I thought, Oh, sounds prettyinteresting.
So that's yeah.
We started trading voicemails,trying to connect, eventually
did, we had a blind date, andwe've never really been apart
since then.
Is that right?
No other dates?
No.
You, you just, you discontinuedyour Match.

(04:23):
com accounts from there?
You're, you're giving us creditfor dating at a younger time,
Kurt.
Well how, Ginger, you had beennever married before?
Never married.
Is that true?
How old were you?
I was 40.
Wow.
Um.
I was too busy.
Right.
And it's really hard.
Well you were doing a lot ofstuff.
We talked about a lot of thatstuff.
It's really hard to find a greatguy.

(04:44):
Yeah.
And so I waited until I did.
That's uh, I've shared that.
Notion before is like forMiddling guys like myself.
It's kind of awesome thatthere's so few awesome guys out
there Because we could still getpretty awesome women, but it
kind of sucks for humanity thatwe don't have more awesome guys
Yes, well, I really Was workinga lot, traveling all over the

(05:07):
world, you know, really didn'tdate, have interaction with
other people and was reallyfocused on my career.
And it is really morechallenging, I think, to find a
man who is okay with you beinggone all the time.
Uh, moments notice, working 20hours a day.
Yes.
And I, I don't know that humanshave changed very much.

(05:29):
And you know, to me, the onlyway to be really successful in
your career is to have a partnerwho both understands it, but
actively supports it.
Not just doesn't guilt you orpunish you for working hard, but
actually actively supports.
And so Jack and I have alwayshad that, which is really
helpful.
Can you circle me a little bit?

(05:49):
Jack, what was your, like,situation in your career at that
time and, like, where were youliving and stuff?
Well, we were both living in theSan Francisco Bay Area.
I was in, uh, Palo Alto andGinger was in Los Altos Hills.
Um, we were both working 20 hourdays and traveling 225 days a
year and, um, internationallyand so we were, we were consumed

(06:11):
by the work that we were doing.
Um, and I had just Kind offinished raising my children,
I'd gone through a really harddivorce and I'd thrown, I'd sort
of sworn the other species offand said, I really don't need
this headache.
And so I wasn't terribly excitedabout dating and reestablishing
a relationship with someone.
Um, but you know, just, youknow, I was really attracted to

(06:32):
the description that my friendTom gave to me about ginger and
what she did.
And I said, I can try something,I can try anything once.
And so, and so we, um.
We hooked up and I'll neverforget, um, I went to her house
to pick her up, which I thinkshe was a little nervous.
I was very nervous.
Right.
Now he's going to know where Ilive.
Yeah, exactly.

(06:52):
I just say, you got to be agentleman and that's what
gentlemen do.
So I went and picked her up andshe ran across the kitchen
window and I saw her and Ithought, Oh, She's really short
and then, and oh, she's got redhair.
You know, this is going to befun.
And it was, we, we just, youknow, you know, we connected
with each other, um, really,really quickly.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(07:12):
We were both going through ahard time then too, not just
related to divorce, but both ofour mothers, my mother had just
passed and, uh, no, my motherhadn't just passed.
She was really sick.
Wow.
And her mother had just beendiagnosed with, um, a recurrence
of cancer, and we both knew itwas really serious.
Yeah.
So we, we had a lot of fun.

(07:32):
We also had, you know, a realhonest conversation with each
other.
Yeah.
So it was a, it was a meaningfulfirst date.
Well, that season of, uh, youknow, caring for your elderly
parents is such a interestingtesting, and so many of my
friends are going through itright now.
You guys have probablyexperienced most of that, and,
you know, Yeah, we've both lostboth our parents, so we've been

(07:55):
through that.
And it is a, it's a bigtransition and I, uh, you know,
even have a good friend thisweek whose father is in hospice
and has taken a turn for theworse.
And so it is a big transition inlife when your parents begin to
decline.
Well, and marching throughsomething hard together is a
really bonding experience aswell.
It is, for sure.
And you were both marchingthrough hard things that most

(08:16):
people don't understand.
Anyway, um, Jack, what were you,what industry, what kind of
business were you in?
I'd been in the reinsurancemarketplace for, I 30 years at
that point.
So that's some of the, like, uh,Warren Buffett kind of stuff,
right?
Like he's got a lot ofinvestments in that space.
I actually negotiated a handfulof transactions with Buffett
through my career.

(08:36):
Okay.
Um, but it was, you know,reinsurance is just an
arbitrage.
It's a way of spreading riskaround the world.
Insurance companies can onlyafford to take so much risk, and
they lay the rest of it off intothe reinsurance market.
Yeah.
And I facilitated thosetransactions, and it was a great
industry.
It was unre, it was unregulated.
It's regulated more now than itwas then.

(08:57):
Okay.
And the room for creativity wasjust unlimited.
Oh, fascinating.
And it was, it was a smallindustry.
There were probably 200reinsurance companies in the
world.
But in reality, the industry wascontrolled by about 15 or 20
human beings.
Wow.
And, uh, and, and we regulatedourselves in terms of integrity.
And boy, you didn't get onestrike.
Huh, interesting.

(09:18):
You just, you had to play by therules and I'm going to want to
dig more into that for sure.
That's a great business idea.
Yeah, yeah.
I'd never heard of it.
He was a treaty reinsuranceintermediary and it's like,
what?
But it's, it's so logical if youthink about an insurance company
in California, insuring homes.
There's a likelihood of, uh,earthquake.

(09:39):
And so if you're an insurancecompany and you insure every
home, and an earthquake happens,you're not going to be able to
pay your claims.
You're going down.
Sure.
You don't even want more marketshare.
No, that's right.
And so this way, insurancecompanies can keep part of that,
but sell off the rest of thatrisk.
So in the end, Jack createdmarkets so that when something
really bad happens, the wholeworld pitches in.

(10:01):
Otherwise no one could recover.
Right.
Well, and like thinking aboutthe California fires of late,
like that signal that insurancecompanies started pulling out
basically probably meant thatthey weren't able to sell the
reinsurance part of it.
Right.
The market dried up for thereinsurance element of that.
It really hadn't dried up.
It was just getting ridiculouslyexpensive.

(10:21):
Right.
And so the cost of homeowner'spolicies, um, you know, on the
one hand, insurance policieslike homeowner's policies are
heavily regulated by insurancecommissioners.
The reinsurance market's notregulated and so they charge the
price of freight that they thinkit needs to be.
And so there was a mismatch.
If that goes upside down.
Yeah.
That's like the yield curveinverting.
Exactly.

(10:42):
It was a, it It's a, it's amassive mismatch, I guess is the
most way, best way, way to putit.
And, you know, we're having thatsame experience in the state of
Colorado right now over, overHale.
Um, Hale's become a, ameaningful catastrophic event.
Roofing companies stay inbusiness is hoping for
hailstorms in some cases.
Well, there's lots of roofingcompanies out there There's way

(11:04):
too many maybe they take massiveadvantage of people, right?
You know that needs to becleaned up.
Yeah interesting.
So you're I guess probably ainnovator as well as a integrity
focused kind of a guy in theinsurance and reinsurance space?
Is that a fair?
Well, there was so much.
There was so much room forcreativity and I thrived in it

(11:26):
because of that.
I'm getting outside the box andthinking of ways to solve
problems that maybe other peoplehadn't thought of was a lot of
fun for me.
Um, coupled to the idea that youjust had to, you had to trust
the people on the other side ofthe transaction.
Because we didn't documentthings the way we document
things today.
Um, it was a handshake kind of athing, and you just never let

(11:49):
your word, uh, be anything lessthan that.
What a fascinating thing.
That was fun.
I'm gonna wanna, I'm gonna wannazoom back in the time capsule of
that.
You're, you're fully retirednow, what, what, did, was the
athletic director, or maybeyou're not.
I don't know, you probably havea bunch of little fingers and
things or what are you up to?
I, I don't feel like I'mworking.
Um, I run, we've got a, we'vegot a horse farm, a 200 acre

(12:12):
horse farm and we grow grass,hay and we put it up ourselves.
And, um, we tend to cattle inthe wintertime and, um, and the
horses year round.
And so there's that work to bedone.
I sit on a couple of boards thattakes some time as well.
Um, and you know, we've alwaysgot.
Yeah.
Plus, he helps at Ginger andBaker in a hundred ways.

(12:37):
Necessary help there.
Yeah, there's so much to bedone.
But he's involved with theCommon Sense Institute, which I
think is a really fascinating,uh, group based out of Denver.
But it's Really, a group ofpeople who invest in independent
research, trying to understandthe implications of proposed
legislation and what it means tothe economy and the people of

(12:59):
Colorado.
And so legislators often come upwith ideas, things, but they
don't know what it's going tomean.
And I had that experience inCalifornia, mine was called the
California Council on Scienceand Technology.
And I was on that board and itdid the same thing, but for the
science and technology world,advising legislators.
If you pass this legislation,here's the potential

(13:20):
consequences to the innovativeenvironment, uh, the research
environment, which is big inCalifornia, all the, uh, startup
companies in California.
And so he's doing that forColorado, which I think takes
more of his time than he givesit credit for.
Well, I think importantly, it'snonpartisan, so we don't have an
agenda.
We don't advocate.
Rather, we, we are justcommitted to providing objective

(13:42):
reports to legislators, to themedia, and to the public.
Wow.
So that people can make informedif you raise the minimum wage to
this, this is, yeah, there's theconsequences or whatever those
things are.
So many unintended.
No, that was frankly, we'regoing to, by the way, while I'm
thinking about it, the firsttime I heard your name, Jack was
from your daughter, uh, whoworked for the sign, not the

(14:05):
sign, but the.
The Stan's Company thing?
Yes.
What's her name?
Kaylee.
Kaylee.
And she came to a training kindof thing that Loco Think Tank
had years ago and when she heardabout what our business model
was, she was like, my dad wouldlove this.
He would think this is so cool.
And so I have to say that beforeI ever.

(14:25):
I heard about Ginger and Baker,I heard about Jack Graham and
how much he would think localthink tank was cool.
So it is cool.
You guys are doing a great job.
I come with a, uh, with apreformed disposition already.
Um, so what I wanted to, um, askalso about before we departed,
but so first common senseInstitute, like let's talk about

(14:45):
unintended consequences, like,and where it is for Colorado
specific.
So what's on the, what's on theboard?
And I'm going to maybe focus onJack a little bit, Ginger, if
you don't mind.
Sure.
I'll come back to you.
But what's on the board inColorado in the months ahead?
And like, what's thecircumstance in terms of, like

(15:06):
to me, Trump and Doge orwhatever cutting a lot of stuff.
And as a largely libertariankind of guy, I'm like, yay, go.
But there's a ton of likeresearch dollars and nonprofit
funding grants and differentthings like that that are.
On the chopping block at best ormaybe gone and like what's gonna

(15:28):
happen to Colorado's?
Like what are the unintendedconsequences of all these big
things that have been happening?
Maybe the last Six weeks or soor yeah, and all of three weeks
and all of that's happening atthe federal level not the state
level And we tend to focus onstate legislation, but doesn't
oh, okay, just legislative notthe right funding another I
think it's equally relevant thatthe at the federal level and met

(15:51):
and much of it is is commonsense and Logical in terms of
the implications of thedecisions that are being made I
think we all love the idea ofreducing the size of government.
Sure.
I mean, we're all kind ofhorrified at over 30 trillion
dollars of debt, and the debtservice that we've got, and all
of the other costs.

(16:12):
So, reducing the government isgreat, in my opinion.
Reducing regulations so that wecan bring back more creativity
and more growth, you know, inthe state, in the state of
Colorado, I can be specificabout the housing shortage that
exists in the state of Coloradoand all of the restrictions that
legal restrictions as well asregulatory restrictions.

(16:33):
Um, you think about the, theissues associated with
construction defects in theconstruction industry, and
that's why condominiums andstarter homes aren't being built
at this point because of theliability that contractors have.
I mean, there, there's an oldsaying that in a construction
project, particularly aroundcondominiums, there's kind of
three or four or five phases.
There's the concept phase, thedesign phase, the finance phase,

(16:56):
the construction phase, and thenthe litigation lawsuit phase.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's,it's so predictable that it's
going to well in Metro'sdistricts are a big problem
around Colorado for the samereason right now, right?
Like they're, some of them gotthemselves in a hole.
Yeah.
So, keep going.
But, but understanding those,understanding the regulations

(17:16):
and the laws that are adopted bythe state and how they impact an
industry like the constructionindustry and that the, you know,
the, the thought by thelegislatures is, is well
intended.
Sure.
Let's protect consumers, etcetera.
Yeah, yeah.
But the real implications are,are far different.
Yeah.
People can't afford to buy homesnow.
Yeah.
And it takes years and years andyears for projects to come to

(17:37):
life.
Um, so, those sorts of things,again, we don't advocate.
We put the information out thereand say, here's what's going to
happen if we do this.
Yeah.
And some legislators listen, andsome just choose to just keep
marching on.
So it's a little bit like the,the state function of, what's
that?
Like the, they do the budgetkind of, this is what's
happening.
The Office of Management andBudget.
Yes.
Yes.

(17:57):
It's very similar, but they picktopics, and actually Jack has
brought them up to speak in FortCollins because they've done
specific geography studies aswell.
They looked at Fort Collins inparticular, I think on crime,
the Fort Collins study to show,and Fort Collins is doing a
great job at addressing crimeand, you know, at Ginger and
Baker.
I experience almost every daythe support from the local

(18:20):
police, from the socialservices, from Outreach Fort
Collins, and Fort Collins is asafe community because of smart
people doing the right thing andmaking good choices, but not
every city in Colorado has thatbenefit.
And so they did a study oncrime, they've done a study on
homelessness, they've done astudy on housing, they've done a
study on transportation, andthey're available to the public.

(18:43):
So if people are interested in.
Actually being informed aboutsome of these topics and seeing
data.
I like to get my informationfrom Facebook.
Thank you very much.
Well, good for you.
I'm teasing.
We just, uh, we just released areport in the last week on the
correlation between thelegalization of marijuana in the
state of Colorado, but acrossthe country as well in other

(19:05):
states.
Okay.
The correlation with, withOregon and other states that
have adopted similar statutesaround marijuana as Colorado
has.
And what's it like, what's itboiled down to?
It boils down to that theaddiction rate, the suicide
rate, is, is through the roof instates.
Oh, really?
Interesting.
In states that have adopted thelegalization of Oh, wow.
Addiction rates, suicide rates,mental health issues, etc.

(19:25):
Addiction rate to marijuana oraddiction rate to other things?
Like a pathway, like that WellThat theory that was going back
to the day is more true than wethought?
You I brought that up as we wereworking on this project.
So this concept that marijuanais a pathway drug to other
harder drugs.
Yeah.
Um, we knew that.
When I was 15 years old, I mean,they said it long time and the

(19:47):
marijuana people at least said,nah, not really.
I'm not interested in coke orwhatever.
Right.
From my perspective.
And it's not true for everybody.
Not everybody's addictive intheir personality, but for those
who are inclined.
There's no way to avoid it inAmerica today because the
enticements are so powerful.
So anyway.
So you think that was a bad movegenerally as a common sense

(20:10):
board member kind of guy?
Well, you know, as a privatecitizen, not as a board member
because we don't advocate, butas a private citizen, I think,
and I was an athletic directorat Colorado State.
Sure.
Yeah.
And so I saw the consequences ofmarijuana.
Um, and, and particularly inyoung people, people who are
sort of below 22 years of age.
Yeah, yeah.
I think it's a, I think it's adevastating drug.

(20:30):
Okay.
Um, yeah.
Their, their emotionaldevelopment.
Yeah.
It's just, there's so manyconsequences.
So, I'm not a big fan ofmarijuana.
Okay.
And that's, by the way, I'm aguy who smoked a lot of pot when
I was in college.
Right.
I'm not a, I'm not a choir boyby any stretch of the
imagination.
Right, right.
I Um, you know, there's atakeover I'd like to have, but,
um, I would like to seedifferent thought process around

(20:51):
that going forward.
But another correlation to thatis we also did a study on
automobile theft in the state ofColorado.
Yeah.
I've heard that.
been going up a ton, right?
Well, it's getting better nowbecause the decriminalization of
automobile theft happened aboutfour or five years ago.
Okay.
That we're putting too manypeople in jail and we, et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So we decriminalized auto theftand auto theft rapes.

(21:14):
Absolutely skyrocketed to thepoint that we became, we were
the leading state in the nationaround automobile theft.
It was because of thedecriminalization.
Well, the, in the, in the, thelegislature last year adopted
new statutes around automobiletheft.
Now there are consequencesagain, and guess what?
The crime rate's going down.

(21:34):
Huh.
And it's going down rapidly.
Probably like shoplifting inCalifornia, right?
No consequences.
Yeah, it was, but now it's kindof back to it's actually a crime
if you get normal amounts ofstuff, you know.
You know, I just, you know, frommy perspective, society In
today's world in America isbecoming less inclined to apply

(21:55):
consequences to bad behavior.
And I think that's a terribledecision.
I look at the way, I look at theway people are parenting their
children today.
I look at the way people areraising their dogs today.
And their dogs, their dogs areout of control and their
children are out of control.
And I think it's because you'renot enforcing consequences.
You're going to behave badly.
There's, you got to change thebehavior.

(22:17):
I have that conversation with mywife about our cat.
It's like, she's like, well,cats are harder than dogs or
children.
Um, but yes, it's like, ifthere's no real consequences to
bad behavior.
It's easy to continue.
Well, it's also, I think, theidea that boundaries are

(22:38):
reinforcing.
Yeah.
And boundaries createopportunity for growth and
change.
And boundaries provide securityand safety.
Yeah.
Boundaries play a positive role.
Not just a punishment role.
And like I think about my dad,my dad was a tough guy.
And you know, back then he, hethreatened to use a belt.

(22:59):
He never hit me, but I lived infear of that thing.
He was a stern individual.
It was very clear.
The world was black and whiteand you did not cross the line.
I never.
ever wanted to disappoint mydad.
And kids loved him.
Kids flocked to him.
He ran a Bible camp.

(23:19):
He was the coach on the softballteam.
You know, kids loved him.
They always knew where theystood.
He always had a big laugh.
He loved kids, but there was nohanky panky.
And I believe that Clarity issafety for children.
And we should provide that, Ithink, boundaries for ourselves,

(23:42):
for our peers, for ourcommunity, for our children, for
our animals.
Like, we don't let our horsesrun over us.
Right.
They're not bad people, right?
They just have to haveboundaries.
And I think Yeah.
All of us would do bettersocially and respectfully as
community members if we observeboundaries with each other that

(24:04):
include manners and civility andgrace and some things like that
that seem to be less Yeah,that's a fair observation.
I think so many people todaythink that you can't love a
child and enforce consequences.
Right.
And it's the opposite is true,as Ginger was saying.

(24:25):
There's so much security forchildren.
In knowing, if I cross thisline, oh boy, this is not going
to go well for me.
And so there I feel much, muchmore secure in that environment.
It's just a, it's that toughlove concept and it's, uh, I
don't know, I think it shouldcome back.
Yeah.
Just call us old fashioned now.
Yeah.
No, that's okay.

(24:46):
I think that's old fashioned.
It's usually pretty good.
Believe me, I got my fair shareof it as a kid, you know,
Ginger, I want to jump over toyou and talk about Ginger and
Baker.
Uh, because it's been basicallytwo years since you and I were
here.
Yeah, at least.
Maybe a little longer.
Yeah, a little longer than that,maybe.
Um, yeah, two and a half years.
How, what's, what's going onwith Ginger and Baker?

(25:06):
Like, uh, It's always been on myregular stop, and the Rotary
Club is flourishing.
I don't know if you've been byvisiting too much, but you
should.
Yeah, it's a great breakfast.
It is a great breakfast.
Well, it's so easy.
Um, so I'm part of this, this isan interesting transition, but
Jack, you should come too.
But on the second Wednesday ofthe second month of every

(25:30):
quarter is a thing called GuysWho Give.
And everybody comes, and you cannominate a non profit.
When you enter that could win 6,000 or something, and three of
the nominations have to stand upand speak for that nonprofit.
And give a pitch, and theneverybody votes, and everybody
writes a check of at least ahundred dollars to the non

(25:52):
profit.
And we, we moved to Mas Fuegos,uh, on Harmony recently.
From Ptarmigan, becausePtarmigan had a change in
ownership, and they wanted tocharge us for the room, and
we're like, we don't do expenseskind of thing.
And so Steve over at Mas Fuegoshosted it, and it's So much
better.
Like, it's just nicer than theroom we were in in Ptarmigan,
and it's been, like, I know thatnext quarter, there's gonna be

(26:16):
way more people than there wasthis last quarter, because it's
just a nicer place, and that'swhat our Rotary Club has
experienced.
Well, that's really nice.
So that's a double thing.
Yeah.
You're invited, Jack.
To the next guys who give thatsounds like a great event.
I'll text you.
You'll love it.
And ginger, um, thank you formaking it so easy for a rotary
club to thrive and grow becauseof your great venue.

(26:37):
Well, that's nice.
And it really is the point, uh,you know, from the beginning,
you and I talked about this along time ago, that the idea of
ginger and Baker was a communitygathering place that is why it
exists, otherwise it's notsomething we would do naturally.
But saving that old mill.
And creating a place for peopleto meet new people, to learn new

(26:58):
things, to meet communitymembers, to support each other,
to celebrate life's transitions,weddings, and baby showers, and
birthday parties, and memorialservices, and for business
people to gather and, you know,for them to, Meet new people,
recruit people to come to FortCollins, start new businesses.
We get to be witnesses to thecommunity as it builds itself,

(27:22):
uh, new to town.
You know, most of our businessin the big months are people
from outside of Fort Collinsbecause.
When school comes back insession, all the freshmen come
to town and their parents andwhen you move a freshman in, you
bring their siblings and maybe agrandparent.
It's a gathering or graduationweekend.

(27:43):
It's a gathering or theholidays.
It's a gathering.
And so it's a place where wemeet everyone who comes to town.
And they get to meet part ofFort Collins and get to see what
Fort Collins is about becauseit's a building of history.
Uh, all of our food we try tobuy and partner in Fort Collins
are local.
So our Wagyu beef is a youngcouple north of town.

(28:06):
Our dairy is morning freshdairy.
Our eggs are the guy on WisdomEggs across I 25.
Our mushrooms are from the guysdown in Loveland.
Like everything we try to do islocal.
And so if you look at all of ourbranded items, our house made
goods, our menu, we are tryingto say, we're part of Fort
Collins.

(28:26):
This came from us, it's part ofus, and we're sharing it with
people who come to us.
And that's the part of Gingerand Baker that I love, is the
community aspect of it.
Rotary is a big part of that.
You know, we're trying to getmore.
We're a small part of it,probably.
Yes, well, you know, it's a lotof people.
And everyone who's a RotarianAnd so they can share that

(28:49):
experience with someone else.
They can bring a friend fordinner.
They can book a teaching kitchenclass.
They can give a gift card.
If they found joy and connectionand community at Ginger and
Baker, they can give it away.
You know, Annie Griffiths, haveyou met Annie yet?
You should have Annie do acooking class at Ginger and
Baker as a, as a, As a social.

(29:10):
Yeah.
Because, like, I think sometimeswe overlook the opportunity
there.
But she does, like, almostregularly, like, little things.
And how many people can you hostfor a cooking class?
Uh, well, we have generally 16.
That way everyone gets toparticipate.
Okay.
Yeah.
Alright.
I think that would be Yeah, it'dbe a lot of fun.
She would love that.
Yeah.

(29:30):
So, well, I've loved it.
I think it's, and, it's the bestspot in town for so many things.
Well, that's nice.
Um.
And especially a Rotary Club.
So, how, how, like, hmm, how doI say this?
Does that big building, like,make any money yet?

(29:50):
Like, is the business modelsorted out?
Is that too Not yet?
It kind of feels bad to say so.
Uh, we've never been closer.
That's what I keep saying toJack.
You're closer.
I've never been closer.
Closer and closer.
You know the You're like theChicago Cubs.
Well, but they did win the WorldSeries.
They did one day.
Yes.
Yes.
It is such a challengingbusiness, such a challenging

(30:13):
business.
I was just looking today, youknow, January, we just went
through all the results ofJanuary and our labor costs were
up 14 percent from a year ago,January.
Our food costs were up 11percent from a year ago,
January.
And uh, our liquor license wentup, uh, 17 and a half percent
from a year ago.
And I just paid that yesterday.

(30:34):
And so I'm trying to figure outhow to outrun.
Yeah.
What is happening.
And then, you know.
Well, insurance costs, localproperty tax costs.
Everything is up.
Workers comp is up.
Family leave is up.
Labor is up so much from a fewyears ago.
Our property taxes went up 67percent and that's after I
appealed because the originalassessment was a 127 percent

(30:56):
increase.
So I, uh, I know it's a greatbusiness.
I believe the community caresand supports Ginger and Baker.
Uh, but it is very challengingto run.
A business that, uh, it's 136employees, we're open six days a

(31:21):
week, 7am to 9pm.
It's a lot of people, uh, it's,you know, it's, what is it?
I've forgotten even now, 26, 000square feet.
It's a bunch of different rooms,a lot of different experiences,
and, you know, we are We are notin charge of anything that comes

(31:42):
in our door.
So, being a one site local smallbusiness, we have no negotiating
power with food suppliers.
Uh, you know, the city chargesus for water and gas, and we
don't, we don't control any ofthat.
Property taxes as much as theywant to.
Uh, liquor licenses, foodpermits, you know, we are the

(32:02):
receiver of all of thesedecisions.
And so far, it has not generatedan income statement that has a
positive bottom line.
I'm sorry to ask that question,by the way, I'm sure it's
probably a little humbling.
It's so frustrating, honestly,Kurt.
What, like, where's theopportunity, like, is it event
space maximization?

(32:23):
Is the cash being busy moreoften?
Is it the, like, where's thebiggest opportunity?
Yes.
Well, all of the above.
I mean, I think it is true.
We have launched catering, so weare now offering catering.
We're not doing full servicecatering yet.
We're doing drop off catering,but that part of the business is
growing.
We have a, a gift basket linethat is growing substantially as

(32:45):
well with house branded productsand yes, a lot of fun items, uh,
we have.
Grown the teaching kitchensubstantially.
We're doing five to eightclasses a week.
Now the cafe, uh, we opened morehours again after COVID, you
know, we had limited hours.
So we increased our hours thathelps a little bit, uh, for us.

(33:07):
I believe there's opportunity toincrease awareness about the
cash.
You can't believe how manypeople still walk in the
building and go, Oh, what'supstairs.
Right?
So we haven't gotten the wordout yet.
Honestly, unfortunately.
Yeah.
Not that I come very often,because I can afford it, but I'm
not your demographic, really.
Well, the Cache is, you know, Ithink I can afford it.
I can afford it once a quarter.

(33:29):
Yes, you know, and for a specialoccasion, who needs to eat out,
you know, every night at a placelike that.
But I think it's amazing though.
The Cache is there like threetimes.
I'm so glad three out of myseven favorite dinner meals in
Fort Collins.
Well, that's nice.
It's it is a place where you canget The best wine in town if you

(33:51):
want or a local bottle of wine,you know, you can get a hundred
percent Grown Wagyu here in FortCollins, butchered locally, and
we cut it up in the business soyou can get exact special cuts.
You know, you can have thatexperience.
You can have one of the mostexpensive bourbons you've ever
heard, had.

(34:12):
You can have any, you know, anincredible.
evening or you can come to thebar, have fun, order an
appetizer, get a cocktail, youknow, be there with friends.
You can come for dessert.
We have fabulous desserts, theseven layer chocolate cake up
there.
I would put up against anythingon the planet.
So you can come for fun.
You can come casual.

(34:32):
You can come early.
You can be the last stop of yourevening.
But we just want it to besomething the community has at
its disposal and enjoys.
And I think our biggestchallenge with the cash is
building the brand of Ginger andBaker, then try to translate
that brand and say to people,and oh, by the way, the cash is
also there.

(34:53):
And so we're, we just hired amarketing firm the first time
since we've been open.
Uh, we're working with, uh,Connie at Mantu care locally,
and she's helping us try to getthe word out about the cash.
And I think it's an importantpart of the business.
Yeah.
I agree.
And really, you know, Jack hasvery strong views about the
cache and it's, you know, it's asteakhouse.

(35:15):
It's a really nice experience.
It's nice furnishings, uh,professional servers, you know,
the, our staff up there has beenwith us for a long time and so
it's a different experience.
Are the SunnyLubix people alittle bit like, cause you're
CSU all through with theathletic director thing and
stuff.

(35:35):
Is it a little bit bumping headsabout who's like cooler?
I would say not at all.
Yeah.
You're obviously cooler at thecash Well, you know, I'm just
saying I love Lu.
Yeah.
You know, I love Sonny.
It's, it's a, he's got a greatspot.
Yeah.
Um, they're on a, they're in apart of town.
We'd love to be.
It's a lot easier.
we'd love to be at the corner.
Yeah.
We'd love to be at the corner ofMountain in college.

(35:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, it would make the businesseasier for sure.
Yeah, the logistics of gettingacross Jefferson Street.
Yeah.
It's a big deal.
It really is.
We talk about it a lot.
But honestly, Kurt, I don'tthink dining spaces in downtown
Fort Collins really compete.
You know, I think they're allunique experiences.
So Jack's is different than rareis different than Japan.

(36:19):
Go is different than Sonny's isdifferent than the cash.
And I'm glad we have thosechoices.
Jack and I, you know, frequentall of those places.
We don't Only eat at the cache.
So you don't have a tab at thecache.
Well, you do, but we do hangout.
It's because I don't cookanymore.
I'm there all the time.
And so he has to come over thereif he wants to eat.

(36:42):
Um, well, I feel like what wouldbe fun is to kind of explore
your journey a little more.
You know, we went back toArkansas with Ginger Jack, uh,
in my first conversation withher.
So we don't need to revisit thattoo much.
It's episode.
73?
76?
Do you remember?
I don't.
Anyway, listeners can find it.
Um, but I'd love to just hear alittle bit about your journey

(37:03):
and stuff, but before we dothat, I'm gonna call a break,
and I'm gonna use a potty break,and uh, we'll start back up.
Okay.
Hi, this is Clint Jasperson,Managing Partner at Purpose
Driven Wealth.
We believe financial clarityleads to a life of contentment
and purpose.
Our mission is to guide clientsthrough the complexities of
wealth management, retirementplanning, and legacy using a

(37:27):
values driven, stewardship basedapproach focused on provision,
contentment, and enjoyment.
With more than a century ofexpertise through Thrivent, we
offer tailored strategies tohelp individuals and families
Achieve their goals and embracegenerosity.
Whether you're navigating a lifeor business transition or
planning for the future, we'rehere to partner with you every

(37:49):
step of the way to learn moreabout purpose driven wealth.
Call 9 7 0 3 3 0 7 4 1 1.
We're back and, uh, how was thatbathroom break for you, Jack?
Important.
Necessary.
Um, we're, we're going to goahead and just like jump back in

(38:12):
the time machine for now.
And when we come back to presentday, we're going to talk a
little bit more about like kindof business principles and
practices and stuff.
Cause I think having a coupleof.
Experts, uh, here.
I shouldn't miss that, but firstwe're going to learn about
little Jack.
So, uh, seventh grade or sevenyears old, little Jack or Four

(38:37):
or five years old.
Were you born in Colorado?
Are you from here?
No, I was actually born in Ohio,Ohio.
Yeah, my dad My dad was a greatman.
He lived 101.
We just oh, wow.
Yeah, he's a great man.
Oh, well, he was Captain of the781st Tank Battalion fought in
World War II for a very, verylong time.
Oh, wow.
Fought a very, very hard war.

(38:58):
So, quantifiably, great man.
Not just a cool guy, my dad.
God star, silver star, purplehearts.
Wow.
I mean, he fought.
Yeah.
And, um.
And the French Legion Medal ofHonor.
Yeah.
Which is also amazing.
Yeah.
He did some hard stuff.
Um, but he, uh, when he got outof the war, um, went to work

(39:19):
and, uh, went to work for the,in, in the, in the insurance
industry.
Okay.
For what was then called theinsurance company of North
America, which is now Cigna.
Um, and they bounced him allover the place until he landed
in San Francisco.
Oh.
And I was a very young child.
I was about one and a half ortwo years old, and so I rai I
was born in, not born, I wasraised in.

(39:39):
Palo Alto, California, rightnext to Stanford University.
Um, it was an idyllic childhoodin so many ways.
Yeah.
San Francisco was in its heydayat the time.
Oh, Palo Alto was a ruralcommunity.
I watched Hewlett Packard andPhilco Ford and all the other
great businesses show up.
Page Mill Road was a dirt roadwhen I was a kid, where all the
Silicon Valley companies are.

(40:01):
Um, so it was, it was a greatchildhood.
I had two brothers and twosisters and, um, You know, we
were older, younger, uh, oneyounger and the rest were older.
Okay.
So I was the second to youngestWe had we we we didn't have
anything that we wanted We allwanted a new baseball glove and

(40:22):
a new baseball bat and new bluejeans Everything was a hand me
down because we were classicmiddle class kids.
Okay, you know, we didn't needanything We were well fed
Security was great, all thatstuff.
I mean, that was normal.
Yeah, 85 percent of America waslike that.
Hand me downs was, like, the wayof the world if you had multiple

(40:43):
siblings.
And we didn't know differently,and so it was great.
Yeah.
It was great.
But, uh I had, you know, I was,I was really well raised by my
parents.
And what, uh, I'm sorry, keepgoing.
No, no, it's okay.
What kind of a kid were you?
Like, uh, were you athletic?
Were you intellectual?
Were you curious?
Like, what were some of thethings that your siblings or

(41:05):
your parents would havedescribed you as in those They
would have described me as, youknow, addicted to sports.
I did, I played every sport youcould play.
Football, baseball, basketball,tennis, golf.
I just, you know, I just,everything that moved I wanted
to get to work.
Were you like, big and strongearly?
No, very, very different.
Oh, really?
I was a very late developer whenI was Okay.

(41:26):
Let's see, I guess I was asophomore in high school.
Um, I was 5'6 and weighed about120 pounds.
Yeah.
I was, I was tiny.
And, um, I didn't play footballmy junior year in high school
because I was too small.
Um, but I stayed I didn't, Ididn't even go out.
I was Right.
I was the manager on thefootball team my junior year in
high school.
Okay.
And then I grew six or eightinches and I still weighed about

(41:49):
120 pounds.
So it was a walking razor blade.
Um, but I could, I could throwstuff and you know, I was, I was
competitive.
And so, um, football became ahuge part of my life.
And you were the quarterback, Iguess?
I was the quarterback in highschool.
Um, I was also, I was a goodgolfer.
Um, people who play golf with menow don't believe that.

(42:11):
Not true.
Not true.
So athletics was a big part ofmy life.
I was always a good student.
Um, I took, um, I can't say thatI took my education seriously.
I took it for granted to behonest with you.
I just assumed I'd matriculatethrough high school and go to
college and move on and have alife and never thought of
education as being a core partof that.

(42:34):
That path just kind of took itfor granted, which is an odd
thing to say.
Um, but I got out of high schooland didn't have any football
scholarship offers, but I stillwanted to play football and
ended up at the university ofCalifornia at Santa Barbara and,
um, was having a lot of successthere athletically and I was
getting a great education.
I really appreciated theeducation at Cal.

(42:55):
It was such a great school.
And, um, this is 1970.
And the student body rioted,this is the middle of the
Vietnam War, the Civil RightsMovement, and the turmoil was,
was, um, Was it more intense inCalifornia than other parts of
the country?
Kinda, we hear about Ohio and acouple of other places, but Cali
has been on the edge of protestsfor a while.

(43:18):
I think it, you know, I thinkplaces like Kent State and Yeah.
Um, places in Chicago and Yeah.
other parts of the country wereequally intense, but you know,
being in the San Francisco BayArea Yeah.
with the Haight Ashbury Districtthere Berkeley right nearby and
we're not you know, we liveliterally right next door to
Stanford University.
Um.
It was, uh, it was, it was topof mind and it was discussed.

(43:42):
Um, when I was, uh, at, at, uh,University of California student
body rioted and.
Um, when we came, we blew up theBank of America and we, yeah,
some people, yeah, some people,well, we are, we are collective
or something, but, you know,like get that out of your mouth.

(44:03):
Yeah.
Have you ever been a lawsuit,but I was, um, You know, I, I,
I've always been interestedabout things that are, are not
necessarily just political, butsocial as well.
You know, how is society moving?
What are people thinking?
What's, what's gonna happennext?
What were you gonna school for?
I was studying history.

(44:23):
Okay.
I studied American history.
Jeffersonian history.
Okay.
Specifically interesting.
Um, so I, and I, I thought I wasgonna go on and be an attorney,
you know, when I, when Igraduated college.
Um, uh, but when the universitywas closed, we came back, uh,
when it reopened and theathletic department, um, shut
down the football program,everybody's scholarship.

(44:46):
And so I said, I want to keep onplaying ball.
And so I ended up going on ajourney.
At that point, I went down toSan Diego state and played there
for Don Coryell.
Okay.
He made me a tight end insteadof a quarterback.
And I got You know, beat up.
You were way too skinny forthat.
And I said, this is realfootball.
This is real football.
I want to go play quarterbackagain.
I like to throw the thingy.
Yeah.

(45:06):
Don't hit me after that.
Um, so I ended up having to goback to junior college to
reestablish.
And so I ended up going to fouruniversities.
Oh, wow.
Colorado State was my last stopand it was a great stop.
Yeah.
So you were already junior orsenior by that time?
I was a junior when I came toCSU.
Okay.
So I played my junior and senioryear here.
And did you start right away?
Um, I think I started the thirdor fourth game, second or third

(45:28):
game in, I can't remember to behonest.
Um, I had a great offensivecoordinator coach, a guy by the
name of Doug Gearhart, who in myopinion, which I think is kind
of informed, I think DougGearhart is actually the
inventor of the West Coastoffense.
He coached with Bill Walsh, um,and uh, was in, you know, lots
of different places, and I thinkDoug, Kind of that short pass

(45:50):
kind of notion was Well, CSUthat year was the number one in
NCAA for passing yards.
So Oh, wow.
Passing and passing and totaloffense as well.
And total offense.
So, they had the statsnationally.
They led the nation in what,eight of your senior team were
drafted by the NFL.
So they had a pretty successfulfootball program.
Nine of us were drafted, twoguys and one guy of us.

(46:13):
You were drafted as well.
Yeah.
I was drafted by the dolphins.
Okay.
And, uh, Mark Mulaney wasdrafted in the first round and
Al Simpson was drafted in thefirst round.
I mean, we had some ballplayers,some good talent.
So it was a great experience andit was formative in many ways.
Yeah.
What did you think when youlanded in?
Because where was your previousstop on your college transfer

(46:33):
tour?
Besides Colorado State?
Yeah, before that.
Well, I was at a junior college,Foothill Junior College, in the
Bay Area in San Francisco.
Okay, okay.
Before that, San Diego State,and before that And then you
like, land this CSU thing, andit was, I presume, both based on
kind of interviews andperformance, and then you, did
you come to Colorado for thefirst time, or had you been

(46:54):
already?
I don't think I had ever been toColorado until I came here on a
recruiting trip.
Yeah.
And, um, I'd been offered ascholarship to go to Weber
State, um, in Utah.
And so, you know, who knows whatlife would have been if I'd gone
to Weber State.
Right, never would have metGinger, probably.
Well, you never know.
Who knows.
Who knows.

(47:14):
Um, but what did you think aboutFort Collins at the time?
Because this is like, what, likethe It's 1972, 73, right around
there.
It's just kind of starting toturn into cool town in some
ways.
I think it was still a cow town.
Cow town.
73.
Cow town to cool town by the90s.
Kind of.
But, you know, again, it was oneof those things that didn't
really matter that much to mebecause the people I was with,

(47:37):
uh, my friends, the ball playersI was playing ball with.
I loved them and we had a greatlife with each other and I
didn't care what city I livedin.
It would have been great anyplace.
So the place I was didn't reallymatter that much before Collins
was a very nice place.
I did enjoy it.
So, um, to get to the next stopin the career, kind of like how

(48:00):
did you were growing up in aninsurance family?
Is that just kind of what youjumped into right out of the
gate or?
Not that Well, I, because I wasplaying football, I bounced, oh
yeah, I bounced around the Yougot drafted Yeah, I bounced
around the, I bounced around theNFL.
Okay.
A couple years unsuccessfully.
Never really caught on withanybody, but I was completely

(48:21):
obsessed by it.
That's what I wanted to do.
You were focused.
I was absolutely focused.
That's what I wanted.
Um, and by the time, so youprobably ate your first humble
pie at.
Like 24 or 25 or something whenthat started to dry up that
dream, right?
I bounced around with really sixdifferent teams over that time
frame.
And so I was, you know, hiredand fired on the practice team

(48:41):
and this and that, whatever.
Yeah.
And let me tell you, when youget cut, it's a blow.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's astatement of being, I mean, I, I
tell the story all the time.
When, when people ask you whatyou do, you don't say, well, Um,
I do lawyering, or I dodoctoring, you say, I am a
lawyer, I am, it's a statementof being of who you are, and I
am a football player.
So, you lose your identity,particularly something you're

(49:04):
that wrapped up in, and it takesa while to I'm almost on the
team for the Dolphins, orwhatever, right?
Like, you're not quite anything.
Right.
You just, and you know, it hurtsto lose all those relationships
not being in the huddle or thelocker room anymore.
Um, it's um, yeah, it's, it's,it's, it's, it's really life
life altering and it takes aginger.

(49:25):
And I talk about this all thetime about change, whether
change is good or change is badchanges change.
And you have to mourn the lossof what you've just changed from
where you're moving to.
Yeah.
And it does take a while tolearn how to live a different
identity than the one thatyou've just lost.
And that's whether you're firedfrom a job, a banking job

(49:46):
someplace or fired fromsomething that you really enjoy
and you don't get to do itanymore.
It takes a while to recover fromit.
So what was that like for you?
Like at the end of your NFLcareer, did you like, okay, I
guess I got it.
A real job.
He said I had to get a real job.
Yeah.
You know, I was going to go to,I was going to go up to Canada

(50:06):
and play ball.
I thought about going to Japan.
Japan was playing ball as well.
Um, my dad kind of grabbed me bythe throat and said, you're not
that good.
It's time to move on.
Right.
You might be able to make 20grand a year in Japan, but
that's not really that great.
So, um.
You know, I was too busy.
I had two children at that.
And so the need for me, therewasn't a whole lot of time to

(50:27):
sit on my hands and worry aboutwhat I just had lost.
It was time to go on and getsomething done.
Yeah.
And so, um, I went to work inthe retail banking business.
Okay.
Um, my first wife was fromCheyenne Wyoming.
We moved up there.
Oh, wow.
I went to work for the firstnational bank and trust company
of Cheyenne Wyoming.
Interesting.
And, um, I learned a lot aboutmoney.

(50:47):
Yeah, awful lot about money.
A lot of good tools came out ofthat experience, but I didn't
need to learn a whole lot more.
I thought there was somethingmore interesting in life than
that.
And so, um, ended up going to aprivately owned reinsurance
intermediary.
Yeah, that's, that's, it's likeinvestment banking.
Yeah, it's all about raisingcapital.
And so I did, that's how I endedup in the reinsurance

(51:10):
marketplace.
It's almost like an arbitrageplay with occasional setbacks.
Is that reinsurance in anutshell?
I don't know.
Yeah, well I was, I went frombeing an intermediary and doing
transactions and bringingparties together to actually
underwriting risk and taking therisk myself, um, as part of my
career.
Oh, interesting.
And so, um, you go years andyears and years without paying a

(51:33):
claim if you're just ensuringearthquakes and hurricanes and
tsunamis and floods and thingsof that sort.
And then all of a sudden theworld explodes.
So in 2004 and 2005, um, we had15 hurricanes make landfall in
the space of a little over ayear.
Uh, Charlie, Francis, Ivan,Gene, Katrina, Rita, William.

(51:54):
I could tell you all of them.
I remember that season.
We paid, uh, we paid outbillions of dollars of claims in
a very short period of time.
And you didn't have it coverednecessarily, hedged or whatever?
Oh, we absolutely didn't.
Yeah, so this is after we movedto Boulder because Jack had
started.
You guys had met by now.
Yes.
What year did you guys meet?
It would reveal your age, but96.
Yeah.

(52:14):
Okay.
Yeah, I just turned 52.
Okay.
No, that's not Yeah, but he hadstarted a company in Boulder
that the it was the firstinternet based Insurance company
and it underwrote catastrophicrisk and they devised the first

(52:34):
program that literally Uh,looked at the collection of
risk, like a map, with every zipcode and every address, and they
knew the geology below thehouse, the proximity to a coast,
and they knew how many they had.
So you were using big databefore big data was cool.
Yeah, he was the first one,started his own company, and
then became the first Lloyds ofLondon syndicate outside of

(52:56):
London, and all of that aroundcatastrophe.
So I always used to tell people,he's a disaster waiting to
happen, that's who Jack is,because he's his whole.
Business was built aroundpreparing for catastrophic
events.
Yeah.
What, here's a question for youout of the blue, just like, have
you ever made any money ongingerbread baker yet?

(53:17):
Um, what is, what are thebiggest potential catastrophes
facing the U.
S.
right now?
I think the unbottled explosionis earthquake in California
right now.
Yeah.
We haven't had a major event inCalifornia.
Really since I'd say 1994, theNorthridge earthquake in 1994

(53:37):
and, and earthquake seismicevents are like stress for the
right, like Bank of Americastarted because of the San
Francisco earthquake back in theday, but you know, seismic
faults, particularly in NorthernCalifornia, the strike slip
faults that go laterallyhorizontally with each other,
they're always moving and themore they move before they
release, the more tension buildsup.
And when they do move finally,they can be cataclysmic.

(54:00):
So I think that's a big deal.
I think the idea of a class fivehurricane making landfall in a
real populated part of theworld, and that has not
happened.
I mean, people think thedisasters that have happened
recently Like a real populatedplace being like a Miami Miami,
or if it really comes into NewOrleans New Orleans, properly
Katrina, Katrina was a big deal,a relatively big deal.

(54:24):
But that was storm surge thatcame into the 9th Ward.
Right.
Um, in and around New Orleans,but it was a, 2 hurricane event,
so the wind damage was nominal.
Um, if, if we have a Cat 5 goingto Houston, or going to New
Orleans, or Yeah, even SouthCarolina, some of those areas
over there are pretty heavilypopulated too.
Yeah, I think those are allOkay.

(54:44):
major, major exposures, and, youknow, we're, we're not talking
about You know, a 50 or 60billion event.
We're talking 120, 150 billionevent that will alter the
economy of America in a verymeaningful way.
So on top of the disaster thatit represents, right?
Just all the lives.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't mean to soundinsensitive.

(55:07):
No, but it's, it's like thefires that have been going in
Southern California.
And, you know, part of it isbecause we all want to live in
places that are high risk.
The values are so high.
You know, close to the ocean, inTornado Alley, in Hurricane
Proximity, in beautifulfoothills of Colorado.
And so we build and we build.

(55:28):
In the trees.
And then the disaster happens.
So the significance of thedisaster keeps escalating.
And these things, yes, they'recostly, but they're also giant.
Disruptions socially.
Communities, entire communities.
More like the Asheville area andstuff.
Like it's just like still comingback together.

(55:50):
You know, and most people aren'tin permanent housing by any
means yet.
Kentucky's taking it right inthe nose in the last five days.
Yeah.
The flooding.
So you're like super tuned in tolike those major societal kind
of Events and just not becauseof your current vocation

(56:12):
necessarily, just because yourexpertise.
I pay attention to that stuff.
Yeah.
You know, I think about myorientation to society and I've
always, I've always had thissort of ability to read the tea
leaves a little bit earlierbefore people do.
And I can remember, um, back inthe late 70s, early 80s.

(56:33):
And watching what was going onin terms of the way in which
America was arming itself withguns and weapons.
Um, and the debates weren'treally even started at that
point.
Yeah.
There was no real conversationabout the Second Amendment.
But I just watched theproliferation of guns in

(56:54):
America.
Yeah.
I just sort of said to myself,Holy shit.
This is going to be a big deal.
It's going to be more murderersbecause of this.
This is going to be a bad thing.
And, um, I just had a sense thatthat was going to happen.
Yeah.
There's other things going onaround the world today that
concern me a lot.
And so Do you care to share?
Like Well, I think that I lookat what's happened over the

(57:16):
space of the roughly last tenyears, maybe fifteen years, but
particularly the last ten years,around how much we have
completely Discredited theAmerican government, the
institutions of the SupremeCourt or the FBI or the CIA, you
know, and, and, you know, DonaldTrump has made a living at doing
that.

(57:36):
And, you know, it's gotten himelected, so he's gotten his own
gain out of that, but at whatcost?
You know, the cost of, you know,causing the American people to
lose trust in those institutionsis massive.
Well, and question, did he makeit happen or did he bring it to
light?
Um, that's a really goodquestion.

(57:57):
That's a really good question,and I think there are certainly
flaws in those institutions.
Um, and at the same time, Ithink that he has brought it to
life.
I think he has, he has justamplified it.
He's definitely traded on it.
So, you know, maybe he's, maybehe saw it and amplified it.
Uh, maybe he's highlighting it,but he cast it like, you know,

(58:22):
even this week, what's going onthis week, Jack and I were
talking federal employees arenot.
Right.
They're not stupid.
Right.
They're not mean.
Right.
They're not lazy.
They're not usurous.
Federal employees were employedfor a purpose.
Yeah, like he's, he's talkingthis line.
Mm hmm.
And it may be that we all say,we don't need so much of that.

(58:46):
And in fact, let's do less ofthat.
But it doesn't mean the personis the problem.
Yeah.
That has some kind of a personalattack.
If you're a federal employee,you're a bad person.
Yes, the demonizing ofindividuals.
I have a lot of trouble with.
I would agree with that.
But I think too, I mean, theSupreme Court is imperfect.

(59:07):
Um, I think it has beenpoliticized to a degree.
But I still trust those justicespersonally, you know, whether
they're Donald Trump appointeesor whomever appointed Yeah, I do
trust them and although there'stoo many party line votes for me
to trust them super well Both inCongress and the courts that is
their orientation to theConstitution.
So I kind of give them a pass onthat I don't give Clarence

(59:30):
Thomas a pass, however, and hisbehavior.
I think that's way outside theboundaries of a well behaved
Supreme Court justice, and Iwould like to see him go away.
Um, so I, that, that's the oneblister that bothers me, but I
think most recently, just in thelast two weeks since the um, air
disaster at Reagan inWashington, D.

(59:51):
C.
with the helicopter, thecommercial jet, the American
Airlines jet.
Um, you know, Donald Trump comeson the news the next day and
just blisters the FAA, right?
And he criticizes DEA, hecriticizes the DEA initiatives
and by the, uh, uh, the USA.
No, diversity, equity andinclusion, right?

(01:00:12):
Um, uh, and, and, and, uh, bythe way, I think he's
directionally correct aboutthat.
Right.
DEI policy in the FAA has causedhim to be unable to staff the
organization.
Yeah.
But you would think that every,um, air traffic controller
that's up in those towers today.
Right.

(01:00:33):
If you just listen to him, he'slike, well, they've hired nobody
but fools, right?
Yes.
That's a bad quote.
Right.
We don't believe that.
And so with social media, withsocial media and the propensity
for Americans to go down therabbit hole of conspiracy
theories, all of a sudden wedon't trust the FAA anymore.
Right.
So I, You know, so I, I willstick by my words that I think

(01:00:53):
that he has amplified andaccelerated the discrediting of
American, really importantAmerican institutions.
Well, and I will agree with youin that regard, and I will also
agree with him when he says thatthe media was kind of a bunch of
crap, uh, prior to his arrival,that there was some stuff going

(01:01:15):
that, you know, wasn't good.
It's so interesting, yes.
Well, I think, you know, ingeneral media.
Has taken a turn in, you know,the most recent past media has
become more entertainment.
And so the role of journalism, Ihave a journalism minor, I
worked for a newspaper.
I worked for a radio station.
Uh, you know, I, I reallybelieve in the institution and

(01:01:37):
the power of journalism as itstands for investigative
reporting.
Both sides of the story, theclarity of facts.
And we all are, unfortunately, Ithink, subject to an
entertainment industry that castitself with a news headline.
And that's very difficult tosort.

(01:01:57):
And, you know, Jack and I, kindof drives me crazy.
We watch CNN, then we watch Fox,and then we watch CNBC, and then
we watch NPR, or we listen toit, and then we watch public
television.
And at the end of it, you go,Can those people be living in
the same America talking aboutthe same topic?
Because the Venn diagram doesn'toverlap.
There are completely alternateviews of the world.

(01:02:18):
And I don't believe that's goodfor any of us.
We, uh, in a way are beinghoodwinked by the entertainment
industry.
And I want us to separate us.
It's great at the camps and thetribes and that sort of thing.
Well, and humans are kind oftribal anyway.
You know, and so I think thetribes that we should be in is

(01:02:40):
the people that live close tome.
Community.
In my community.
That's my tribe.
Community is important.
But even locally, you know, theschool board divisions, the city
council divisions, that we needour leaders here in Fort
Collins.
It used to be your church.
Yes.
Yeah.
It used to be.
But to rise up.
To better leadership to morehonest and open conversation to

(01:03:02):
willingness to listen to wildlydifferent viewpoints that your
own that are expressed civillyand with substance and, you
know, we, we can't let FortCollins.
Be that it's we're better thanyeah, we have to be better than
that And yeah, I do think it'san individual responsibility to
both seek multiple viewpoints tobehave civilly and respectfully

(01:03:26):
to be willing to be challengedbecause There are many ways to
view the world and not all ofthem are pleasant And so I do
think you know, we have to ownthat as citizens of Fort Collins
and as Americans I think thewhole subject of Donald Trump is
really important to talk about.
Yeah.
And find a way to talk about itwith people openly.

(01:03:47):
Um, I love what's going on rightnow.
I mean, I love what's going on.
The Doge stuff and whateverelse.
I do, I do, and it's a bit of ablunt instrument.
Yeah.
And I could be very critical oflots of Okay.
aspects of it, but somethingradical had to happen Yeah.
to stop the growth of, I mean,36 trillion dollars of debt.
Yeah, and, and It's the biggesttwo or three trillion a year.
More.

(01:04:07):
It's a threat to our society.
More civilization.
Long term.
Yeah.
For sure it is.
Our children, our grandchildren.
It's burying the future.
So it's real.
And it's If interest rates go uptwo points, two hundred basis
points, on thirty six trilliondollars of debt.
Right.
It consumes, at that point thedebt service consumes the entire
budget.
Yep.

(01:04:27):
No, no more defense.
Yeah.
No more anything.
No more education.
That's how big a deal it is.
Yeah.
So it's We are on a reallyfragile rope, um, in that
regard, but going back to DonaldTrump, because I, I think it's
important to talk about it.
And as I said, there's lots ofthings that he does that I like.
I mean, I think he's a smart guyand he understands how to change

(01:04:48):
things.
He's a, he is a change agent andall that stuff.
When I was the athletic directorat Colorado State, the only
thing I really did to intervenein the activities of my coaches,
you know, whether it was a headfootball coach, basketball
coach, volleyball coaches,whatever it was, um, they had to
fill out a form for everystudent athlete that they were
intending to offer a scholarshipto.

(01:05:10):
Okay.
And they couldn't offer thescholarship until they finished,
finished the form and gave it tome.
And all I read about was theirbehavior.
You know, how many layers ofsocial media deep did you go to
find out, has this kid's motheror father been arrested?
Has this kid been arrested?
Just, I want to know what thiskid's character is.
Because the rule was realsimple, no bad characters.
I don't care how good a studentyou are.

(01:05:31):
I don't care, I'm sorry, I don'tcare how good an athlete you
are.
Um, I watched, you know, inpersonal experience in my own
athletic career, I watched somePhenomenal athletes who were
terrible teammates, destroyteams.
And I could talk about JohnnyManziel.
You could talk about TerrellOwens.
You know, these are phenomenal,phenomenal athletes and how many
teams did they destroy, youknow, legitimately, legitimately

(01:05:55):
blow them up.
And so for me, that's DonaldTrump.
I look at Donald Trump'scharacter, and he does not tick
the box for me.
I've looked at his businesscareer and how many billions of
dollars did he lose forinvestors.
He screwed people over here andthere and this and that.
He wears, he puts lawyers in hispocket like a gun.
Um, he talks about women likethey're chattel.

(01:06:16):
And, and just he can't, hedoesn't tick the character box
for me.
So he's not even a candidate,you know, he doesn't even get,
he doesn't even get on the list.
But he's the president.
Well, he is the president, soyeah, he is my, he is my
president.
Right.
He is my president.
And he's doing a bunch of stuffthat you think is But prudent
but you know, and you know, sothat's an interesting thing for
me to have that Attention, Iguess if you but I'll but I'll

(01:06:37):
stick my neck out and say howsustainable is it?
How long is it gonna take forhim to blow himself up or blow
somebody?
I don't know some institutionAnd I and I will tell you from
my perspective It's absolutelyguaranteed.
It'll happen because it's, he'sjust, because you're a risk
analyst and he can't helphimself.
Is that what you're saying?
That's exactly what I'm saying.
Interesting.
Um, and, and at the same time,all of the stuff, and I

(01:07:00):
understand why he's thepresident of the United States,
the reasons are valid and thedemocratic party and the left
wasn't listening.
By the way, I'm, I'm anindependent, I've gone down both
paths and so I can think bothways.
I voted for Kanye in 2020.
So, yeah.
Oh no, but I voted for Trump forthe first time in 2024.
Yeah, I did.

(01:07:20):
Yeah.
I mean, you know, not because Ithink he's awesome.
Mostly because he drew RFK andTulsi and a number of other real
voices in the politicalcommentary to his camp, and he
humbled himself a fair bit.
Like I hadn't really seen Trumpdo that, but in his acceptance

(01:07:43):
of those other voices to thecause.
We'll call it, he humbledhimself a fair bit.
It's quite a diverse cast ofcharacters.
It really is.
There's no doubt about that.
It really is.
How it's Uh, accelerates changeto the benefit of the American
public is what we will all bewatching.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And I, and I do worry.
Yeah.

(01:08:03):
And I'm holding my breath.
If you read my blog from lastmonth, it's like, I don't know
if orange man bad or not, butyou people freaking out just
cause orange man bad shouldprobably just.
step on the brakes a little bitand wait and see how it goes.
And again, I'll, I'll make astatement that a lot of people
could call, you know, kind ofoff the rails kind of a thing,
but this isn't that perfect sortof social local experience
podcast.
It's that sort of socialinstinct capability that I think

(01:08:25):
I have a bit inside me ofwatching things happening.
Do you think it's Hitler?
Well, this is exactly the path Iwas headed down.
Who would have ever thought, whowould have ever thought that
brown shirts?
Could exist in American society,that people would be watching
each other, that theinstitutions would be taken
down.
That the safeguards around thoseinstitutions would be
dismantled.
And all that stuff is takingplace right in front of our eyes

(01:08:46):
right now.
And what's the endgame?
What's the purpose here?
Is it to pass the baton to J.
D.
Vance or maybe it's to MarcoRubio?
Who, what's an, or is it for himto find a way to stay in office
perpetually?
And I know that's a ridiculousthing to say out loud, but it's
not, I don't think it is.
I think it's something we allneed to, we should be watching
and we shouldn't be afraid tosay those things out loud

(01:09:09):
because the more we say them outloud, the less likely it is that
it will happen.
Yeah, that's fair.
And so, um, Can I send it backto you, Ginger?
Are you as nervous about this asyour risk analysis husband?
I think he is.
Always more forward thinkingfrom a social structure
perspective than I am.
I'm very much about Jack is orhe is.

(01:09:32):
Jack is just checking.
Yeah, I don't know about Donald.
Honestly.
Um, I think Jack is Veryattuned.
He does have a vibration, like apitchfork that is about social
unrest, about social norms,about behaviors socially, really
macro.
And I consider myself to be muchmore about who showed up today.

(01:09:54):
Do people speak civilly?
You like me because I'm me.
Yes, and it's, it's really abouthow we treat each other one to
one right now in this momentbecause in the end, I believe
that's all that matters.
Yeah.
Even, like, we, Jack The rest ofit is an aggregation of those
smaller things.
Yes, and, and yes, you, youhave, you are in that pond.
You are swimming in that pond.

(01:10:16):
But, uh, like, uh, Frankel'sbook about man's search for
meaning Sure.
He was in The concentration campand some people help the Nazis,
some people, you know, hurttheir own brother.
Some people gave up.
Some people committed suicide.
He, he pushed himself to findmeaning and hold himself
accountable to a differentlevel.

(01:10:37):
And I would like to think thatour challenge individually.
Is to not be what is cast uponus, but to be what's right and
who we are and hopefully by thathelp affect change, you know, in
the ripple effect.
I do believe in community.

(01:10:57):
I believe in the influence incommunity.
I believe that knowing ourneighbors is part of our social
responsibility.
We know our neighbors house byhouse who they are and we know
their dog's name and you know,we.
Trade soup cans or you know, we,we are friends with our
neighbors.
I feel like that's part of oursocial responsibility.
I know the river districtbusiness owners, because that's

(01:11:21):
the community we're in.
You know, we participate in anumber of activities in the
community, like the funding of anew center for the homeless
population that actually isdesigned to provide services to
reenter people into a productivesociety.
Yeah, it's not.

(01:11:41):
It's social services.
It's nutrition.
It's a accelerator.
I believe, and I've been soimpressed by the leadership.
Again, the, the people who aremaking this happen in town are
people who have standards.
They hold people accountable.
They offer, uh, Doors intofutures, but people have to walk

(01:12:02):
through those doors withresponsibility.
And it is true.
And I have become, you know,even more acutely aware because
of our location in the communitywith the business that if you're
trying to get on your feetagain, and you want to go do a
job interview and you arehomeless.
Where are you going to take ashower?

(01:12:24):
Do you have any clean clothes?
If everything you own is withyou, where do you put it when
you go to a job interview?
If you put it under a bridge andeverything you own is stolen,
then tomorrow what do you do?
The barriers to re enteringsociety are enormous if you fall
off the train.

(01:12:45):
And so the idea that as acommunity, That we create a way
for people who want to becontributing members of society
to enter a door that has a bed,food, mental health support,
physical health support, Maybetraining on how to interview a
shower and a locker for yourthings so you can go to your

(01:13:09):
transportation So what path dowe want people to be on and that
for me?
That's the world I live in morethan Jack and we've always we
are very different and yet havegiant overlapping Venn diagrams
personally about our valuesabout our But he is way more out

(01:13:33):
there in bigger picture, whetherit's designing Ginger and Baker,
or whether it's seeing socialtrends.
I am more.
What are we doing?
And who are we influencing?
And what is our part?
Who's in my immediate contactcircle?
And what can our voice help doin this moment?
And so we have differentperspectives.

(01:13:54):
And I, I personally have troublewith people whose values, I
believe, lead them to demean orbelittle or dehumanize others.
And so I struggle with some ofthe dialogue today by our
leaders because that dialogue isdemeaning and dehumanizing.

(01:14:16):
It doesn't mean that I disagreewith where they might be going,
but I don't appreciate orsupport the way they're going to
take us there because we will bea meaner, more judgmental, more
fractured community on theirtrain.
We all need more grace and morelove and knowledge, more real
time walking in other shoes andall that kind of stuff.

(01:14:39):
So if we get somewhere betterand on the way, we hate each
other and we separate from eachOur budget is balanced, but we
hate each other.
Are we good there?
Yeah.
That's not any better than goingbankrupt together.
I'm not too crazy about that.
Yeah.
That's fair.
I dig that.
Ginger's capacity to care forpeople is unlimited.

(01:15:03):
She's a remarkable woman.
I mean, she's obviously aremarkable executive and leader,
and gets more things done thanany human being I've ever known
in my life.
And I mean that literally.
But, you know, our neighboracross the pasture, and three
houses down, in his mideighties, Let's go check in on
him.
Yeah.
Let's go take him a piece ofpie.

(01:15:23):
And, and, cause he's alone.
And, and, he's singular.
But there's so many of thosepeople that she thinks about
that way.
Yeah.
You remind me a lot about, uh,the Matthews House founder,
Jerry.
And, uh, just that heart toreally try to want to help
everybody, but just theKnowledge that you can't

(01:15:45):
actually do that, you know, it'smore about trying to set
cultural trends and changes andstuff and I hope that, I hope
for both, I guess, of yoursakes, kind of that notion of
community and the notion ofmulti inputs to this current
mega plus maha plus whateverelse is going on, um, won't be a

(01:16:12):
problem.
terrifying, but instead can bebeneficial, and we'll see.
I hope, you know, we'll see ifyou're right or wrong in that
regard, Jack, in terms of therisk component.
Yeah, so I told Jack when hewent to CSU, the first
revolutionary always getsbeheaded.
Right.
It's a view that I have alwaysheld, in business, in social

(01:16:33):
structures.
When people see a dramaticchange that needs to occur and
they are willing to demonstratethe courage and the perseverance
to cause the change, they willbe unpopular.
The first revolutionary alwaysgets beheaded.
Jack has that kind of courage.
There are people who have thatkind of courage.

(01:16:53):
Maybe that's what we'reexperiencing, that the first
revolutionaries are moving.
And it may be that theopportunity for us to remake
America again, uh, with moreindividual accountability and
autonomy, with more personalresponsibility, with a future
for our kids.
And just a smaller drag on thesystem.

(01:17:14):
A future for our kids that'sbrighter.
Maybe that's what we're facing.
And change is uncomfortable.
As Jack said, I worked for a guyonce who said, all change is
loss.
And all loss must be grieved.
So even if you're changing forsomething great for the future,
you're giving something up.
And you gotta grieve it.
And so there's grief in thisprocess.

(01:17:36):
And there's hope.
But there's also fear.
And all of us have a role toplay, I think.
I like that.
I like that notion.
We have to bring heart.
And, um, humor.
I looked up communitarian.
Uh, apparently communitarianisn't a good thing'cause it was
like too much close tocommunism.
But like I was thinking maybeI'm kind of a communitarian.
I'm not a libertarian per se.

(01:17:57):
I'm not a Republican.
I'm not a Democrat.
I'm kind of, I'm a local firstguy ultimately, and I'm a
principals kind of guy.
Notionally, um.
Before we get into ourmandatory, shouldn't talk about
segments, we're gonna, um, doour, uh, grab bag.
Oh.
Cause we've got two ginger andbaker slices of pie, and Two

(01:18:20):
each, or just No, there's twototal pies.
We're giving them away.
So these are for the listeners,you guys are giving these away.
You're not giving two to, two totwo different people, you're
just giving one?
One.
One.
We could've done two.
Yeah, bring somebody.
No, but bring somebody.
You get a free slice of pie, sobring somebody else.
I'll double down.
We'll give two to each winner.
Okay, so I'll write on back,plus two, basically.

(01:18:42):
We'll just put that right onback.
Per Jack.
Okay, so these are the, uh,awkward or businessy or who
knows what kind of questions.
Oh, I can't draw your ballsthough.
So Jack, why don't you draw twoof those.
And Ginger, I'm gonna have youdraw two.
Okay.
And then we're going to ask youguys these questions, and one of
the four questions is going tobe the prize winner.

(01:19:06):
Yeah, we're not going to go allover the place here.
So what numbers do you have,Jack?
Uh, 23 and 17.
23.
Oh, this is a fun one.
And 17 was your second?
Any stupid human tricks thatyou're willing to share or show?
No.
You must have something.

(01:19:27):
Do you have something?
I can blow bubbles off mytongue.
Like, do you have to have anyspecial equipment or preparation
or anything?
Usually a six pack of beer willget me there.
Okay, I got an IPA in thefridge.
You need that?
Like, you just, like what, likeoff the tip of your tongue or?
You know, I was an altar boy inchurch and my brother Bill and I
served together a lot.

(01:19:48):
And we'd sit in the altar andthe sermon would be going on.
We'd sit back there and we'dstart blowing spit bubbles off
of our tongue.
To entertain ourselves.
Okay.
So.
So you can like create littlebubbles off your tongue.
I don't know if my saliva is theright condition.
It's an important conversation.
Alright.
That's uh, I'm not sure thatwill get you on Saturday Night
Live, but, um.

(01:20:09):
By the way, did you see that 50year anniversary show the other
night?
Parts of it?
Yeah.
That was awesome.
It was pretty good.
That was awesome.
Yeah.
There was a lot of neat behindthe scenes to that.
Oh, did you get 17?
17 right away too?
Well, whatever you want me todo.
Sure, we'll do that.
Okay.
Bye.
How did you define success inyour business or career?
Like, what were you chasing?

(01:20:30):
You know, I was, um, I waspretty, I don't think there's a
single answer to that.
I don't think, I think it'smultifaceted.
And I was pretty clear headedwith myself.
Um, first and foremost is, yougotta make money.
Because if you don't make moneyin a business, the business
doesn't survive.
Yeah.
You know, so you have to makemoney.
You can never run out of cash.

(01:20:51):
So I was pretty adamant aboutfinancial responsibility and
financial success.
And through that financialsuccess, you create
opportunities for so manypeople.
And I, you know, I owned mybusiness that I found, and I
shared the equity in thebusiness with a handful of
people.
More than a handful, a number ofpeople that worked with me.

(01:21:11):
How many people did you employover the years, do you think?
Oh my gosh, I don't, I'd say athousand.
Yeah, 500 at ICAT, more thanthat at E.
W.
Blanche.
But with turnover and all that,oh yeah, I don't know.
Thousands of people over theyears bought groceries with your
paychecks.
Yeah.
And put their kids throughcollege and paid their

(01:21:33):
mortgages.
You know, you take that thingseriously.
We had about 15 people, youknow, who got rich.
You know, because of, you know,having equity in the business
and boy, did they deserve it?
Yeah, they were tired.
They worked hard and they werereally talented and for quite a
while without getting paid.
Like they should have probably,you know, that's why you pay
equity.
Right?

(01:21:53):
Usually they got paid well, too.
You know, I think that's anotherthing.
Ginger and I talk about thisquite a bit that both of the
businesses are the businessesthat she and I have run.
are almost always named, youknow, one of the best places in
the state to work.
Yeah.
You know, whether it's thebusiness I ran in, in Boulder, a
company called ICAT.

(01:22:13):
It's, it's still considered oneof the best places to work, so
that was important.
But I think that, um, You know,standards, you know, just
getting things right, doinggreat stuff, really, really good
stuff was really important tome, more important to me than
the money, you know, it's like,can we take pride in what we're
doing?
And are we, are we creating apiece of art here, which is kind

(01:22:33):
of a funny thing to say about abusiness, but yeah, but I did
think about it that way.
Um, and delivering great valueto our customers, you know, that
was, that was important.
And transparency.
I mean, that was, that was acornerstone to our business that
I was constantly having to raisecapital for our business because
it was very capital intensive.

(01:22:55):
And one of my cornerstones was Iwould go to prospective partners
and I'd say, here's where allthe problems are.
You know, the story, you knowwhat we can do, you know what
we've done, but here's wherethe, if there's risk there,
here's the warts, here's what wescrew up.
And, um, it's amazing how, um,how, how meaningful that was in

(01:23:16):
establishing partnerships.
Number one and number two, itwas a really effective way to
raise capital.
That's why he was so successful.
I haven't met very many Peoplethat are way more big picture
guy than I have that I am likeI'm kind of a Biggest picture,
but I'd like to be involvedlocally, but you definitely have
that kind of 30, 000 foot viewdialed in And I hope you're not

(01:23:39):
right about Trump Yeah, you andme both right I'm just it's just
a warning yeah, it's like thelights on pay attention Yeah,
yeah, that's fair 25 and 10 Um,is your numbers, Ginger.
And 10 is what's a hobby orskill you've always wanted to
pick up but haven't?
Oh, I know what that is.

(01:24:00):
The harp?
Yes, it's the harp.
The first time I retired, I'mreally bad at it.
The first time I retired was 20years ago, and I've always
wanted to play the harp.
I took classical piano lessonsall my growing up years and can
play the piano, although now I'mreally rusty.
But The woman who taught me wasancient.
She, as a child, had taken fromPaderewski, and it was severe

(01:24:25):
classical music, and herdaughter was a harpist.
Her son was an organist, and Iwanted to learn to play the
harp, so Jack bought me a harpfor my retirement, and I've had
it 20 years now, and I just tookmy first lesson with Meredith
who you had on your podcast.
Yes, just a couple weeks ago.
Yeah.

(01:24:45):
And so my goal is to learn toplay the harp.
So is she going to do like Zoomharp lessons mostly with you, I
guess?
Because she's mostly aScotlander.
Yes.
When she's in town, I want tosee her.
And she also, the first timetaught me how to string and tune
the harp, which is also veryimportant.
I imagine.
Yeah.
Well, I'm excited about that.

(01:25:06):
We do.
Like, I want to have you back intwo years.
Ah, I'll play a little piece foryou.
And we'll bring your harp inhere, yeah.
Maybe you and Meredith can cometogether when she's back.
Oh yeah, I would not make her dothat.
Um, what was the other one?
25.
25, yeah.
What's one thing on your bucketlist that you're determined to
accomplish?

(01:25:28):
That's a good question.
Um, one thing.
Does it have to be anaccomplishment or can it just be
an experience?
Well, it's an experience.
Bucket list is kind of anexperience.
Well, going back to the firstquestion.
You don't have to start a newcompany or anything like that.
I am determined to make Gingerand Vega work.
Oh my gosh, I'm determined tomake ginger and baker work.

(01:25:49):
Oh my word.
You know, and part of it isbecause what Jack said, we have
always shared business successwith the team that got us there
and I can't share.
The rewards of Ginger and Bakerwith my key management team
because it's not there and oncewe get there, then they get that
and that will be good for theirlives and their careers and

(01:26:10):
raising their kids andfulfilling their dreams.
So that's really at the top ofmy list.
Uh, but there, you know, thereare other things that I want to
do in life, but mostly I want todo things that matter.
Yeah.
I hope that keeps continuing forthe rest of your journey.
The, yeah, the winning question.

(01:26:31):
Thanks, Ava.
The winning question, I'm goingto choose, Ginger's first
answer, which was Meredith andthe harp.
Um, so, lucky winners, uh,contact us through Spotify,
through LinkedIn, or throughInstagram.
And the first one we notice SoGinger won and I lost?
No, just one of our luckylisteners wins for coming this

(01:26:52):
far in the conversation.
That's because I lost?
Well, just because herconversation was so much more
interesting.
Like, cause Meredith was just ona few weeks ago.
Like, yours were cool, it'sfine, Jack.
I want a replay.
It's not a contest.
Like, you had to have known whenyou met Ginger it's not a
contest.
Otherwise you would lose.
Just kidding.
Love you both.

(01:27:12):
It's just the way we do it.
It's fine.
It's just fine.
It's just because Meredith wasjust on the podcast.
That's really why.
Okay, fine.
Okay, fine.
I'm over it.

(01:28:08):
Um, oh yeah.
So it's, yeah, I, I startedjumping into the faith family
politics.
Um, Talk to me about your faithperspective.
Well, I, we've, we've, we've,we've said it a number of times
to each other today.
Um, we're just, you know, ourfoundation is just being 100
percent committed to doing theright thing no matter what.

(01:28:29):
Hmm.
Um, and that's a profoundBecause of?
Faith.
Like a big guy up there kind ofthing?
I, I, that's a reallyinteresting way to think about
it.
I don't feel, I don't feelaccountable to God.
Okay.
Um, I'm a child of God.

(01:28:49):
Yeah.
Um, um, I feel accountable toall the people around me.
I feel accountable to my wife,to my children, to my community.
It's a healthy perspective.
Um, I, I, I do know that, youknow, through studying the
teachings of Jesus over thecourse of my life, he was
profoundly committed to alwaysdoing the right thing.
Yeah.
And teaching people do the rightthing no matter the cost.

(01:29:11):
Yeah.
Um, and.
You know, I try, I try, I try, Itry to practice that to the best
of my ability, no matter thecost.
And it's so seductive and sotempting to just round corners a
little bit when it gets a littlebit difficult.
And that's when it's mostimportant.
So I think that's the foundationof my faith.
Um, I've, I've been a Uh, astudent of Jesus, you know, most

(01:29:36):
of my life, I, I, I don't knowthe Bible.
In a particular perspective?
The New Testament mostly.
No, but I mean, were you raisedlike Presbyterian or this or
that?
I was, I was raised.
I was raised an Episcopalian.
Oh, okay.
My dad called it Catholic light.
Yeah, that's what I've called itactually.
I hate to say that.
Which, um, which really didn'tteach the teachings of Jesus
that much.
It was just more of a ceremony.

(01:29:58):
Yeah.
Um, and, and I think theteachings of Jesus are where.
Where the rubber really hits therose.
And there are so many profoundteachings, um, worth listening
to and integrating into yourlife.
So for you, like, the church isof less value than the teachings
of Jesus?
Dramatically less value.
Okay.
I find organized religion to bedangerous, and I really respect

(01:30:19):
a lot of them.
Yeah.
Um, the Catholic Churchdisappoints me so much with its
history over the last 35, 40years and Yeah.
The pedophiles, I mean, if theywere American business, they
would be out of business, theywould not be permitted to exist
today.
And there's gotta be someconsequences associated, they
gotta clean their act up.
Um, it frustrates me beyondbelief.
Hmm.
Um, and I know that's not gonnabe Yeah.

(01:30:41):
Very pleasing for a lot ofCatholics to hear, but I really
don't care.
I think most of them confess itand acknowledge it and they
would probably say the same.
Yeah.
So, um, but that's, that's,Well, yeah, it certainly takes
the teeth out of the, thePope's.
When the Pope says something,it's like, Okay, whatever, dude.
Sorry, that's kind of rude, butit's a little bit like that to

(01:31:02):
me when I see him come up withthat.
Well, it's another institutionYeah, they're corrupted.
that unfortunately erodes Yeah.
And so it's another part of thiseroding of the things that you
count on.
And you know, I, I hope thatthey have That's where you both

(01:31:23):
resonate a little bit, is thatwe need these institutions of
community, of even media, ofgovernment, of Whatever the
government is, it has to standfor something that people
appreciate and respect.
We are individually responsibleand should be accountable to
ourselves.
To be part of what's right andcontribute, but we do have to

(01:31:45):
organize Yeah, into groups andmethods, you know, to be able to
do commerce, to support kind ofstandards and norms.
And we do have norming,storming, we talk about that as
a team, but as a town, as astate, as a nation, we need.
organization to our ability toeffectively give back to each

(01:32:07):
other and to grow opportunityfor others.
And so institutions have a role.
It doesn't mean they'reomnipotent, but the erosion of
institutions disables us frombeing productive and we need to,
we need to count on them.
Yeah, that's well put.
Yeah, I like that as well.
Um, anything else you want totag on to that?

(01:32:28):
Well, no, I just, you know, justthe whole question of faith.
I've got a very good friend,Johnny Square, who's the, um,
chaplain for the CSU athleticdepartment.
Johnny and I played football.
He's got a cool name too, JohnnySquare.
Isn't it great?
Yeah.
Reverend Johnny Square.
Right.
And that boy can preach, let metell you.
I believe it.
He's really good.
Um, but he's also, he studies,he's very thoughtful.

(01:32:50):
And he believes in the power ofprayer.
Um, something that frankly Ineed to learn more about, the
power of prayer.
Um, I think a lot of peoplepray.
I don't pray much.
You know, I think good thoughtsabout people and care about
people.
But prayer is something I needto explore more.
Sometimes high performing peopleare like, God bless all this
hard work I'm doing.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, it happens.

(01:33:13):
Yeah.
Anyway, I think that, uh, youknow, the Reverend Square and I
are talking to each other a lot.
I dig it.
So there's a lot to live fromand a lot to learn from.
All right.
Cheers, Reverend Square.
Reverend Square.
Um, family or politic, Jack?
Would you care to enter intoeither of those short circles?
Um, politic.

(01:33:34):
You've got two, well, sorry.
You want to go politic first?
Sure.
Politics is, um, politics is aprofession.
Yeah.
There's no question.
It's a career.
Unfortunately, it's a career.
Um, when the constitution waswritten 250 years ago, um,
politics was, uh, it wasn't sucha thing.
It was, it was public service.

(01:33:54):
Yeah.
Um, people had a career.
They were successful at theircareer.
They went to the legislature,whether it was the local
legislature or the federallegislature and they served and
then they left and they wenthome, you know, and McConnell.
He's one of the most amazingmen.
In my lifetime, I, and he pissesme off at times beyond belief,

(01:34:15):
but he's one of the most amazingmen I've, I've ever listened to.
He is so thoughtful.
And, and yet, how is it that wehave an 80 something year old
senator who's been in office forover 40 years and takes a little
breaks once in a while?
It's, it's absolutely wrong.
Yeah.
That's a career and it'scorrupt.

(01:34:36):
I mean, those guys attract somuch money.
Sure.
Um, to their own politicalcampaigns, to the campaigns of
other people.
They can help it almost.
I mean, if you, if you, if youdon't catch, if you don't kiss
Mitch McConnell's ring in theRepublican party, you ain't
getting money.
You know, the Republicancommittee and so that's corrupt.
That's America's form of abjectcorruption.

(01:34:57):
And so we, we, we, I just, Iknow it's true.
I ran for Senate in 2016.
Against who?
Uh, well, I was in the primary,I was a Republican candidate in
2016.
There were 17 people in Okay.
In the field.
I finished second out of a fieldof 17.
It was my first walk intopolitics, but there was a guy by

(01:35:18):
the name of Darrell Glenn, whoended up winning the primary,
and he was just a little bitright of the till of the hun and
he was a traditional MAGAcandidate back then.
And there were two or three of'em that were supposed to be
running and.
Two of them got knocked out andonly Daryl was left standing.
And so that's the politics inthe state of Colorado.
It's true across the country,but yeah, Colorado shows up for

(01:35:40):
primaries, whether it'sDemocratic primaries or
Republican primaries, primariesare really interesting things.
It's the most radical people inthose parties and God bless
them.
You know, they, they work, theyvote, they give money.
Yeah, their voice gets heardbecause they show up and
everyone else sits home.
Yeah, so you just I mean, it'sall like all of life It's a
participant sport But I wouldlike to see you know, and all of

(01:36:07):
these things requireConstitutional changes, which is
a huge huge lift as far as thelike turn limits and different
things like that term limits andcampaign reform Yeah, is that is
that the big things financereform term limits?
Is there?
Other things that would help ourdemocracy or republic from

(01:36:27):
slipping back into this kind ofhuge deficit laden bureaucracy
that we've been in?
Well, your recent efforts havebeen around, uh, ranked voting
and, you know, the two partysystem.
Is it actually destroying thevalues that we all hold dear
about everyone has a vote?
But the two party system sets upthis play that the only people

(01:36:50):
you have to vote on, you know,are in this primary dynamic and
would, would we be better servedby having more choice?
In terms of our candidates and amore free selection process that
more people would choose toparticipate in.
You know, that's a curiousquestion.

(01:37:11):
Yeah, it is important.
I think that'll be back on theballot.
It lost in 2024.
In Colorado.
It did, but it lost by a smallmargin, mostly because it's
complicated.
Yeah, it's hard to understand.
But I think that, um I mean,we'll go back to work at putting
it back in the ballot again andsee if we can't carry that
across the line, because I thinkit would, it would level things

(01:37:32):
out between the two party systemthat we've got.
Well right now, like theDemocratic Party obviously
dominates the Colorado politicmost places except for east of
whatever the Mississippi is.
Yeah.
I mean, eastern Colorado ingeneral, a little bit western
slope, but mostly not the frontrange.
Clearly.

(01:37:53):
Yeah.
Um, Yeah.
I want to jump to family.
You have two daughters?
Uh, two daughters and a son.
And a son?
Right.
Um, they're all probably 30s andup from now or 20s and up from
now?
I don't remember.
Well, my son is 48.
Okay.
Um, so I was 20 2, 23 years old.

(01:38:14):
Okay.
I was 24 years old when my sonwas born.
Alright.
So I have a 48 year old son, 47year old daughter, and 45 year
old daughter.
And how many grandkids do youhave?
Four grandkids.
Okay.
21, 13, 6, and 5.
Let's jump, let's jump to thegrandkids, because we do a, uh,
one word description.
Usually of children, becausemost of my guests are like in

(01:38:37):
their 40s, but it's fun on theteenager style.
So, are you prepared for that?
Yeah.
Not really.
Are you scared?
So, like, name him, rank him,not rank him but put him to a
kid and then give him one worddescription for me.

(01:38:58):
The four grandkids.
Let's see.
Our oldest is twenty one yearsold, Kendall and Kendall is You
don't have to rank them like anorder, but yeah, yeah.
Kendall's an artist.
Kendall's an artist.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's, that's well put.
That's cool.
Theater, voice, acting.

(01:39:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, Kendall is an artist.
There's some people that arejust like naturally there.
It's been her passion since shewas two years old.
She's been in plays her entirelife.
She loves it, has done reallywell.
Yeah, really cool.
Our grandson Mac is 13, and Macis just magnificent.
He's a magnificent, he's agreat, great human being, and

(01:39:43):
good athlete, and great student.
Wise beyond his years.
So much to be around.
He knows more about footballthan his grandfather, Jack,
which is the amazing thing.
That's all I listened to withthose two.
Oh my word.
He's a lot of fun.
I like it.
I like it.
And then we have a six year oldgranddaughter, uh, Grayson and

(01:40:03):
Grayson is just.
She's just the love of my life.
I mean, she's just wonderful.
Your new favorite.
Yeah, she's just wonderful.
She's so much fun to be around.
Her poppy and she have a specialthing.
Yeah, she's great.
And then her brother, Luke, is acannonball.

(01:40:24):
Just an absolute cannonball.
He's a kid.
He's a kid that looks like heweighs 35 pounds and you pick
him up and he's, he's as denseas magnesium.
He's just, he's just thickbeyond belief.
You know, he's going to be alinebacker.
He's got that mentality.
I like it.
Future linebacker at CSU.
I dig it.

(01:40:44):
Um, Local experience.
That is our, uh, final segment.
Do you remember what yours, didyou, I don't think you could
share one with me, Ginger.
You were like, kind of like, Idon't really have anything that
crazy, but the, our podcast nameis the Loco Experience Jack.
And so normally the craziestexperience of your lifetime that

(01:41:06):
you're willing to share.
is our closing segment.
Do you have any like near deathexperiences or?
Oh, I have a bunch of those.
Oh, you do?
Really?
I have a bunch of those.
Yes, I actually think I want towrite a book about it because
it's really, it's mind boggling.
I've got quite a few too.
Yeah, I know.
I totaled way too many vehiclesfor one thing, but I was

(01:41:30):
driving.
So I was a freshman in collegein Abilene, Texas, driving home
for the holidays to Arkansas.
And it was, uh.
I don't know, 12 hour drive andI was driving by myself and I
left school at the end of schoolon a Friday, I drove all night
long and the sun was coming upthe next morning and I was so
sleepy and I went to sleep atthe wheel of my car on an

(01:41:52):
interstate and when I woke up, Iwas a foot from having a head on
with an 18 wheeler and I don'tknow how I didn't roll the car,
but I hit The median, I turnedmy steering wheel and I was
going way too fast and I wasabout to have a head on with an

(01:42:13):
18 wheeler and you had crossedthe median already.
No.
Well, this is the, the joy ofthe story is that I had come up
behind a tow truck pulling thecab of an 18 wheeler.
And I didn't know that in themoment, of course, I thought it
was going to the headlines.

(01:42:34):
Yes.
So I was having a head on withan 18 wheeler and could have
killed myself trying to get offthe road, but thankfully I
didn't.
But I sat in the median andsobbed for a while to get myself
together again.
And that really sobered me aboutdriving my driving experience,
because I've always been way toofast.

(01:42:54):
Jack would say I still am, butthat was, uh, she's got, so you
like woke up and you're almostready to.
Rear end a tow truck with Yes.
But I don't know that in themoment.
So that, to me was a heartstopper.
All right.
Jack, do you have a crazyexperience to contend with that
one?
Well, other than the day Imarried my wife which was a

(01:43:14):
great day, I, I, I remember the,the day we got married though,
and it was time to join her atthe altar.
And, um, how choked up I becameand I was, I was so surprised,
like, what the hell is going onhere?
Yeah.
I, you know, I just gotta, I'vebeen like a cool guy forever.
Yeah.
You know, what is this allabout?
I think, you know, when my kids,uh, I told my kids at a very
young age, I said, I'll take youanywhere you want to go in the

(01:43:35):
world.
When you turn 14, it's gotta bea third world country and no
hotels.
That was the deal.
So it was an outward bound kindof an experience.
And I took my son to Africa.
Um, we spent five weeks inAfrica and hiked over 600 miles.
Um, I got him on top.
We were almost stampeded bywater Buffalo and almost killed
and Took him to the top of theNeithi Gorge, and he climbed

(01:43:57):
about 200 feet down the facewith a guy that had climbed
Mount McKinley, and I was like,man, you know, I'm gonna be in
trouble when I get there.
This is a little sketch.
Took my, uh, oldest daughter to,um, eastern Europe right after
Perestroika and Glasnost hadtaken place, and she really
wanted to see what that was allabout.
And we experienced Russia, theSoviet Union then, firsthand.

(01:44:18):
Oh, wow.
Yep, that was a Yeah, it was aneye opening experience.
Like in the Yeltsin years,virtually.
Gorbachev and Yeltsin.
That was a great, greatexperience.
For her and for me.
And my youngest I took toEcuador.
And we, um, hiked through theAndes for about two and a half
weeks and hiked through theAmazon for about two and a half
weeks.
Yeah.

(01:44:39):
One of my favorite storiesthere, she, we had, we had, we
were in the, uh, we were on theCocoa River in, um, in, In
Ecuador, but it's right byColumbia and, uh, we could see
the gunboats running up and downthat were running drugs and that
was an eye opener.
And the skies opened up and itprobably rained eight or ten
inches in an hour.
The skies just opened up and sothe river rose and we were

(01:45:01):
isolated on this littlepeninsula and we couldn't, you
know, we were isolated.
We couldn't get off.
Well, we had to get off.
And so, we waded across thispeninsula and there were caiman
and other really dangerouscritters in this water.
And, and just talking her intoit, like you put the pack on top
of your head, we got to go.
Yeah.
There's just no choice.

(01:45:21):
There is another option.
And seeing her muster that upand, and, and conquer that, you
know, conquer the fear and getto the other side was, it was a
terrific life experience.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ginger, um, any I wish we hadtwo more hours, honestly, like,
I feel like we really couldspend plenty of time

(01:45:41):
philosophizing.
We have lots of philosophies,yeah.
Yeah, we haven't even barelyhad, we've just been
storytelling, notphilosophizing, but it's already
5.
10, so I want to respect yourtime, but, um, maybe, like, is
there anything that you'd liketo share with, actually one of
the segments I haven't touchedon yet that we sometimes do is
like advice for the nextgeneration, and I think

(01:46:03):
especially as a, a woman would,That became a leader before
women leaders were popular.
Um, do you have some, somethoughts into this space where
we're at?
Especially for ladies, uh, youngAva, even if you want to
personalize it.
Like, what do I do with my life?
Like, uh, I'm here, I'm 20, I'mproducing a podcast, I'm taking

(01:46:28):
classes.
But, like, how do I figure itout?
Well, I'll tell you, you know,what I, what I tell And I do
have the opportunity to speak ata lot of business schools or
with women executives, and Istill do some of that.
And I have, I always say thesame thing.
Number one, uh, pick your boss,not your job.
And especially, I think, forsomeone who may be more unusual

(01:46:52):
in that role.
So whether you're too young, oryou're a minority, or you, you
know, speak a differentlanguage, or you're not, you're
not part of the standard cast.
Mm.
That very first.
Job that those early job choicesare very formative.
So you can imagine that if Youdon't fit in and your boss
doesn't really want you andyou're treated badly when you're

(01:47:16):
brand new You don't know if it'sabout you or if it's a situation
and so your self esteem yourconfidence your courageousness
your ability to Take risk canget severely altered very young
in your career because you workfor the wrong person, a jerk, an
uninformed person, you know,maybe someone who was nice, but

(01:47:36):
didn't, didn't know how to be agood coach.
And so I had the benefit ofworking for an amazing.
Man, early in my career, andactually, I think I could give
you a list of nine incredible.
I never worked for a woman, onlymen, but the great experiences,
the tough feedback, the coachingI got and the courage they
demonstrated helping me growwhen I was unusual and didn't

(01:48:02):
fit and there weren't any, and Iwas the only, and I was the
first and all the things thatget in the way of performance,
uh, you know, having a goodboss.
made all the difference.
And I have 20 stories somedaywhen we have nothing else to
talk about, I'll tell you aboutsome things that courageous men
did that demonstrated to me whattrue leadership looks like, and

(01:48:23):
also called me to be all that Icould be because they had taken
a risk on me.
And so that's one piece ofadvice, which is pick your boss,
not your job, especially whenyou're young, but I'd say your
whole life, your boss.
Has disproportionate influenceon you and all the HR research
in the world says that you canwork for a great company But if
your boss is a jerk, you stillhave a terrible experience

(01:48:45):
Right, right.
So that's important the secondthing is we just had this
conversation with a young manwho was sitting at the bar at
the cash with his mom and Hedoesn't know what he wanted to
do and he wanted to talk to Jackabout insurance and then he's
doing something else and I Saidof course, you don't know what
you want to do.
How could you?
You've never done it.
You haven't done anything.

(01:49:06):
Yeah, you haven't done anythingexcept go to school and do what
you were told to do.
So now you're of your own freewill, but you don't know what to
do.
Of course you don't go dosomething, whether it's a good
experience or a bad, a good bossor a bad take notes, learn from
it.
What did I love?
What motivated me?
What did I hate?
What was I good at?
What did I did not know, but I'minterested in and then do

(01:49:27):
another thing and then doanother thing and then do
another thing and somewherealong the way, you will learn
what you are and what you'remade of and what you're capable
of and that will be you and thenyou will apply it to maybe 100
more things.
So my dad worked for the postoffice after the military
accumulated service of what 43years.

(01:49:47):
That's what my dad did.
I've had 14 jobs.
I think the last time I countedthe next generation will have 40
and so learn, learn, learn,learn, learn, learn, say yes, do
it, learn from it and move on.
And I think if you Try to workfor a good person and you are in

(01:50:09):
a learning mode.
The sky's the limit.
Period.
Go do it.
I dig that.
Thank you.
Jack, anything to append theclosing here?
No, I think what Ginger said,you know, we're pretty much
aligned there.
I preach to people who ask mefor advice when they're young,
you know, pick your boss, pickyour job.
Um, but I think more thananything, this generation in

(01:50:30):
particular, you know, we alwayssaid figure out what you love to
do and then go find a way tomake a living at it.
It's not that simple.
It's just, as Ginger was saying,go try things and then figure
out what you like.
Oh, I really like reinsurance.
It's like, what?
Right.
Go get a life.
Yeah.
Never would have heard aboutthat.
Right.
It was spectacular, therelationships, but I thoroughly,

(01:50:52):
I was intellectually stimulated.
I love the competitiveness ofit.
It was just a great career.
So go try things and findsomething you really like and
then commit to it.
Don't be so damn caught up inthis idea of having a balanced
life.
A balanced life is pretty bloodyboring.
Um, you know, balanced lifedoesn't mean you can't work 48
hours straight and never go tobed and not see your family for

(01:51:16):
two days.
But then you take time away fromyour job and you balance your
life by immersing yourself inyour family to make up for it.
But don't be afraid to immerseyourself in something, commit to
it, and get exhausted.
You know, be exhausted becauseof what you're doing.
And, and learn from it.
It is so much fun to immerseyourself in something.

(01:51:38):
Yeah.
You learn so much.
We are a world of, uh, shallowpeople in some ways.
And so that Perseverance andwork hard.
Peyton Manning said something,um, that caught my attention a
number of years ago.
He said it takes you about 10,000 hours to learn how to be a
quarterback in the NFL.
And he said after about 15, 000hours.

(01:51:59):
You start to change the game.
I thought, oh, how much fun isthat?
You know, that's, that's reallysomething.
I used to tell people for yearsthat after five years in
banking, because I was a smallbusiness banker, was my
background, that I thought I waspretty good at it.
And then after ten years inbanking, I was like, oh, damn, I
was so not good at it after fiveyears.

(01:52:19):
And, uh, you know, that's partof the journey.
More to learn.
Recognize where you've been.
And I'm not as smart as youguys, so it was harder for me.
Yeah, right.
I appreciate you guys beinghere.
We appreciate you too.
This is a great program.
Well, thank you.
Thanks for the work.
Appreciate you much.
Godspeed.
Thanks, Kurt.
Yeah.

All Episodes

EXPERIENCE 212 | Jack & Ginger Graham - Owners of Ginger and Baker, Veteran CEO’s Building Northern Colorado Community - Together

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EXPERIENCE 212 | Jack & Ginger Graham - Owners of Ginger and Baker, Veteran CEO’s Building Northern Colorado Community - Together