EXPERIENCE 216 | Teamwork Makes the Dream Work - if the Beer Tastes Great! Josh & Angie Grenz, Owners of Verboten Brewing and Barrel Project in Loveland, and Verboten North Brewpub in Fort Collins. - The LoCo Experience

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I met Josh and Angie Grins inthe early months of their
opening their first verbotenlocation in a quiet industrial
park in Loveland.
And Angie actually came to thevery first organizational
meeting for the First Loco ThinkTank chapter before I had even
come up with the name Loco ThinkTank.
She didn't join and hasn't yet,but I remain hopeful.
We stayed in touch over theyears and reconnected more

(00:20):
properly last year when theyopened their second location and
what had been Black BottleBrewery in Fort Collins, which
closed the fall before.
Verboten means forbidden inGerman, and their selection of
beers mostly has one thing incommon.
They use ingredients thatwould've been forbidden under
historic German purity laws,which basically means you can
have lager and you will love it.

(00:41):
Sours and porters and winebarrel aged stouts, and you name
it, they've done it and probablywon a prestigious medal for it.
Josh and Angie eventually movedto a great downtown location in
Loveland, and the Verboten Northis at the corner of Prospect and
College in Fort Collins.
This is a journey of startingsmall, focusing on the product

(01:02):
and the people, and growing intoa regional brand in an industry
that has experienced decline inrecent years.
Verboten continues to grow andit's due to the hard work and
smart decisions by Josh andAngie and their dedicated teams.
So please enjoy as I did myconversation with Josh and Angie
Grins.

(02:05):
Welcome back to the LocoExperience Podcast.
My guests today are Joshua andAngie Grins and they are the
founders, owners and operatorsof Verboten Brewing and Barrel
Project in Loveland and therecently new Verboten North Brew
Pub.
And, uh, wow.
I said it all correctly.
Good job.

(02:25):
It's a mouthful.
Yay.
So, um, let's start with, uh,how, how long in Fort Collins
now with the north location?
Oh, we are right at almost ayear, almost a year.
10 months in a year.
Okay.
11 months, April.
Yeah.
Yeah, 11 months in right now,so, mm-hmm.
And, uh, how is the addition offood to the, uh, delivery of

(02:49):
services?
Oh, I, I tell you, I mean, youhad food before, but pretzels
and stuff.
Oh, just premade snacks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But its nothing like this, not akitchen.
Yeah.
It's definitely a labor of love.
I think you have to love havingfood.
Yeah.
Or it is your worst nightmare.
So.
So you do love food though, itsounds like.
I do love food.

(03:09):
I love your menu.
I've really enjoyed Yeah.
Uh, several of the sandwichesI've had.
Yeah.
Thank you.
And a pizza.
Mm-hmm.
So, uh, you know, good job onthat.
And that's relativelystraightforward, right?
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't take a genius to putit together.
Yeah.
No.
Uhuh.
Oh.
Not that you don't have geniusesworking for you.
You probably do.
No.
Uh, I tell you, if it was leftup to me, I would probably try
and do something way too bougieand crazy and then we would

(03:31):
Right.
Be broken and nobody would buyit in month three.
Yeah.
So it was crazy.
My wife and I were just at, um,have you ever been down to the
sand dunes recreation area?
Oh no.
It's kind of close to Sand DunesNational Park and, uh, we're a
Hot Springs fan, so a joyfuljourney we've been to down
there.
Mm-hmm.
But Sand Dunes has, uh, like acommunity pool with all these
kids and old people and stuff.

(03:53):
But then they have thegreenhouse, which is like, kind
like the, the high hops brewingkind of space.
Oh, ah, the greenhouse kind ofspace.
Mm-hmm.
Or whatever.
So it's just this gorgeousplace, but they've got a bar and
then their kitchen is puttingout like crab cakes and really
good sesame crusted ahi.
Mm-hmm.
And really kind of bou lovestuff for like.
North of Aosa.

(04:14):
40 miles.
Yeah.
Wow.
With nothing much around.
Yeah.
No, I was really proud of'emactually.
And they were not overpriced.
Yeah.
It was like they're giving thosecitizens mm-hmm.
A little chance to have somenice, uh, you know, culinary
delight.
Nice.
Yes.
Yeah, it's important.
We'd love to check that out.
Yeah.
Go down there.
Chicago.
We went to the blanking on thebrewery Brewhub.
That's a Michelin star.
Oh, moody Tongue.

(04:34):
Moody tongue.
That was a fun event.
Oh.
Inter Michelin Star Brewhub.
Oh wow.
So you talk about like the, um,getting good at two things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, and you know, uh, a simplepizza menu all the way up to a
Michelin stard, um, menu tastingmenu.
It's fun to see where brewers,brewers go.
Chuck land.
Yeah.
Okay.

(04:54):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Do you have aspirations to.
To get that started, maybe neverquite that far.
No, no.
I would just like toconsistently, that's a lot of
work.
Have a decent product thatpeople enjoy having alongside
some beers.
So let's, uh, let's talk alittle bit about the, the new
location, especially now thatyou brought a couple of IPAs in.

(05:15):
Mm-hmm.
Um, which is one of the things Iremember we talked about, Angie,
that, uh, when you moved to FortCollins, you realized they'd
like a lot more IPAs.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Actually, you know, at first wethought, well, we're gonna make
this a kind of an extension ofLoveland, and then pretty quick
we're like, you know, it's notthe same thing.
Yeah.
It's a different space and itneeds its own focus.

(05:37):
Yeah.
And so, um, we happened to bevacationing in California and
Josh was drinking all of thesegreat Alvarado Street IPAs and
we went to, and Carmel, yeah,there's, there's one brewery in
Carmel.
Okay.
And more than half their tapswere.
Hop focus beer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like sweetheart used to be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kind of.

(05:57):
And it, and it was interestingjust because, you know, he, he
just never got sick of it.
He drank IPAs the whole time.
And so that's my wife, honestly.
Yeah.
And so, you know, we know thattheir, the popularity of IPAs
isn't going anywhere, but thenwe got to thinking really, you
know, it's a, it's somethingthat we already had a great
brewer, Kurt, he mm-hmm.
He's done, um, IPAs for peculiarfor a while and is just really

(06:19):
talented and very passionateabout them.
The art of the Hop.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
But we had him in Loveland doingeverything else but IPAs.
And so we, we got to thinking,you know, it'd be fun to kind of
change our focus up there alittle bit and make Fort Collins
more focused on IPAs.
And, and he's slowly but surelybeen doing that.
And now it's, it's beenexciting.
'cause I think we're reallystarting to draw people in with

(06:41):
some of his IPAs.
So we're, yeah.
I love it.
And, and we had 20 taps and so.
We're still doing other styles.
Sure, sure.
But we're gonna have eight to 10of those will be hop focused.
Okay.
So anywhere from Pale Ale toSure.
West Coast.
Mm-hmm.
You know, pilsners, hoppy,pilsners to Well, and your, all
the range of the IPAs, so yourroots is really kind of doing

(07:03):
what we want.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
With beer, right?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Uh, Josh, uh, maybe I'll let youchime in a little bit.
You're, you were home brewbefore you guys started, is that
true?
Yeah.
Home brewed for years.
Um, involved with the Home BrewClub in Loveland.
Um, and uh, yeah, that's justkind of how I got started.
I grew up in Fort Collins.

(07:24):
Okay.
So new Belgium del.
We're there when I could startdrinking.
Right.
So I've always been, you know,into the beer culture and loved
the beer culture.
And we were doing beer cas.
And so yeah, it was just, uh,that that was the start.
And, um, yeah, we just had our12th anniversary last weekend.
Oh, is that right?
Yeah.
Oh, I missed it.

(07:45):
Oh, sucks.
That was fun.
I, uh, we got all theanniversary beer still,
actually, I was out, we were ona big road trip, as I mentioned.
Yeah.
So, uh, well, and I rememberlike, some of your early brew
and I think they're still on, orlike, like a Kentucky style and
just some kind of more obscurekind of mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Recipes, if you will.
Yeah.
Talk to me about that.
Was that like by design or?

(08:07):
Yeah, that was by design.
So, um, I mean, my brewing styleand this was, was using, you
know, doing different thingsusing different ingredients.
Mm-hmm.
And, um.
Angie came up with the nameVerboten, which means forbidden,
which was based upon what wasforbidden in Germany to use.
By law, they could used fouringredients in beer, water,

(08:27):
malt, hops, and yeast.
And everything else was illegalfor boden.
Forbidden.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it was just a focus onspices, fruits, obscure styles,
barrel aging, specificallyspirit and spirit barrels, which
was also illegal.
Oh.
Um, and so that all kind of fitinto mm-hmm.
Not only my brewing style, butwhat we like to drink.

(08:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And um, yeah, I like to drinkthe weird stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sometimes.
Yeah.
And I feel fortunate, you know,new Belgium, you know,
especially new Belgium.
Odell too, but especially in NewBelgium, we're doing all these
obscure styles, you know,Belgian styles with fruit and,
and spices and Yeah, of coursethey've been doing that this
before the Belgium thing kind ofcame along.
Yeah, of course they do that in,in, in Belgium.

(09:10):
But, um, that was kind of newtoo.
I.
To me and to Northern Coloradoand to Colorado specifically.
So we were kind of focused.
It also allowed us to on that,but it also allowed us to just
move and be trendy.
Right.
Um, or follow the trends.
Yeah.
You got no limitations, right.
And be innovative and all thosethings.

(09:32):
So we just wanted to beinnovative and, and kind of take
people the time we opened andtake, take people to the next
level.
So we, we were like, let's,we're not converting people from
Budweiser.
I think that's already been donein Northern Colorado.
And those that, like Budweiser,that's, that's fine.
No problems with that.
But people that are looking forlike kind of the next experience

(09:53):
in beer.
Yeah, yeah.
The next flavors in beer,beyond.
They already had switched tocraft beer and Mike Bruce and
we're in that scene and we werelike, let's take that a little
bit further, but then let's keepgoing.
Wherever that takes us justallows us to Yeah.
Be innovative and different.
Yeah.
I was around during, you know,I, I moved here in 99.
Mm-hmm.
And so, you know, like 90shilling and Easy street wheat

(10:16):
and sunshine.
Mm-hmm.
You know, had a dominant Yeah.
Or a growing mm-hmm.
But a dominant share of thatleft market still and they're
still good beers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, the variety reallystarted to come in with some of
those smallers and of course NewBelgium was doing some of that.
And I know Dell's from thestart.
Yeah.
But it really.
You know, they were leaning onthose flagships and so you'd see

(10:36):
them on the, all the handles.
Mm-hmm.
And then about the time you guyscame on, the scene was when, you
know, the restaurants Yes.
With good beer scenes startedcoming and all that.
Mm-hmm.
Beer bars.
Yeah.
Choice, beer focused bars, allof these places.
Yeah.
And it's funny'cause when I, Iwas not a beer drinker when I
moved here, so when I, you know,married Josh and started

(10:56):
drinking beer, it wasn't, Ididn't start with Budweiser.
I started with, um, Odell NewBelgium Linden, um, brewing on
Lyndon Street.
And these were these amazing,you know, full bodied, um, you
know, robust beers that I wasdrinking.
And so, you know, I cut my teethon on some good stuff, so.
Fair enough.

(11:18):
So tell me a little bit moreabout the, the north location
now.
It's, uh mm-hmm.
I'm, I'm very familiar with it'cause it was the former Black
bottle brewing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, which was one of the mostrecent, um, the, the last bank
loans I made was to help Seanopen black metal brewing back
years ago.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, we, you know, weheard the space was gonna come
available and, um, we'reimmediately interested because

(11:40):
we had been looking for a whilefor a second location.
Um, our debate was where was.
The best spot for us.
Um, going down to Denver seemedoverly uh, difficult.
A little too complex.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But coming up to Fort Collinskind of felt right because, uh,
he grew up here.
Yeah.
I, we spent the first I twodecades of our marriage in Fort

(12:01):
Collins.
Sure.
So, you know, I've been here.
You had a lot of communityconnections through Style
Magazine and all that.
Yes.
Yeah.
So we knew a lot of people andso when we heard it was coming
open and it also was a fullybuilt out brew house.
Right, right.
It just kind of made sense.
Does a license come along in asituation like that?
Um, kind of, or.
It can, it's easier.
Yeah, it can.
What we did is we, um, we tookthe license for a short period

(12:23):
of time while we app applied fora new license.
Mm.
Um, and then we moved everythingover to the new license.
So, um, but it, you know, it's,uh, a brew pub license versus
what we have in Loveland as abrewery manufacturing brewery.
So, uh, two different licensesthat we now hold.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Does the brew pub mostly, as Iunderstand it, requires some of

(12:43):
that food element.
Yeah.
You know, some 20, 25% orwhatever, it's 15%.
Okay.
Which is kind of cool becauseit's 15%, that's not a ton.
Um, it tends to be more thanthat naturally.
Um, you can still distribute abunch of beer and stuff like
that.
Yeah.
It's kind of this cool licensethough, because you don't have
to have the kitchen open all thetime.
You're not under the samerequirements as maybe a tavern.
Oh, interesting.

(13:04):
Or another, a restaurant.
Yeah.
So we can open our clo or closethe kitchen as we want.
Uh huh So it's like, okay, thefood truck's here from this
time, but you know, it's not therest of the time.
So yeah.
As long as 15%.
Yeah.
As long as you're hitting thatnumber.
Is that like a monthly measureor, yeah, yeah.
15% of your monthly sales.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, um, so kind of built it outin a, in a mm-hmm.

(13:25):
Kind of modern, trendy comparedto your, your south, your level
location is a little more likeColorado brewery industrial.
Yeah, yeah.
Industrial.
Yeah.
Industrial old building.
I mean that, yeah.
The building was started in thetwenties.
Yeah.
And finished sometime in thethirties, added onto, so it's
got old brick Yeah.
And industrial to some point.

(13:46):
Yeah.
But also.
O an older building with atotally different fill where
this is Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Much more modern.
And this was, yeah.
A newer building, and then wewent in and black bottle was so
dark.
Mm-hmm.
And so we really just wanted tobrighten it up.
Yeah.
We also knew that we were gonnabe offering, um, spirits and
wine and addition and food.
And so we wanted a space thatfelt a little bit more.

(14:07):
Yeah.
Um, it's got a little bit of afour 15 vibe Yeah.
Back in the day.
Yeah.
A little more community, but alittle less, um, pigeonholed
right into the, uh, it's abrewery.
Right, right, right, right.
Okay.
So, yeah.
So, um, Josh, why don't you tellme about this?
Oh, I guess your, this isn'tyour recipe.
This is your brewer's recipenow.
Is that right?

(14:28):
Yeah.
It's our brewer's recipe.
So this is the, uh, the betteruse of mind.
Yeah.
Better use of mind, hazy.
Mm-hmm.
Hazy.
IPA, hazy juicy IPA.
And, um, this is, um, yeah, justkind of.
A current offering.
Um, you know, and what, whatKurt's doing, what he wants to
do, and when we're in agreementwith is just rotate them for now

(14:49):
and kind of let our customerspick, see which ones really
catch on, see which ones reallystick, and then maybe those will
be, you know, the, the yearround offerings.
And are you guys canning onlocation?
Mm-hmm.
All the time.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We finally are.
I know there used to be thoselike canning operations that
would run around.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And can you up a few kegs orwhatever, but yeah, no, we, I

(15:10):
mean we, um, you know, inheriteda canning line that was the
fifth one built, um, by acompany in Denver called, uh,
wild Goose.
Okay.
It was a fifth one built duringCovid.
Mm.
So it was, you know, whenbreweries shut down overnight.
Oh, right.
At least they wanted canninglines because they had to get
beer out.

(15:30):
Right, right.
That was the only way to do it.
And so this was a, an affordablemachine relative, I.
Mm-hmm.
They're all expensive, but thisis a relative machine where it
fills one at a time, but builtwell.
But it was in disrepair, so I'vejust been working on it.
We, we've ran our firstsuccessful runs there, um, this
last week.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
So actually a lot of these,including this one that we

(15:51):
brought today, we had to take toLoveland and use our canning
line there.
Oh, so you've been canning for awhile?
Yeah, we, we have been canningthe stuff there for a little
bit.
Um, but we had our firstsuccessful runs just on Friday.
Oh, wow.
There.
So just getting the, the machineup and working so Well.
Thank you.
I feel very honored.
Yeah.
We're, we're trying to getevery, pretty much everything

(16:13):
you can take to go in, in a can.
That's, that's won't beeverything, everything.
Just because logistically that'sstuff, but it's gonna be most
everything that he's putting,uh, out and brewing there.
Um, you can get in a can to go.
That's a nice little, I Isuspect that be has become a
pretty popular thing is peoplewill have lunch and a beer
mm-hmm.
You know, with their wife ormm-hmm.

(16:34):
Something, and then grab a fourpack to go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And it's, that's a nice little,uh, add-on revenue wise to the
mm-hmm.
To the ticket, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and everything is so highlylimited right now.
We don't make huge batches of itthat, you know, if, if you like
it, you get to take it home, getit.
You may not get to see it againfor a while, so.
Yeah.
Well, and.
It's interesting.
When you guys first launched,you know, the, the Growler was

(16:57):
very much the scene, right?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
People come and buy a couplebeers, still 50 of them in my
basement.
Right.
I, I'm down to like five now,but, uh, I use'em for my
kombucha actually.
Oh, yeah.
But I imagine that has gone,like, once the Crowler came
along, breweries kind of focusedmore on that.
Mm-hmm.
I think easier labor wise andyou didn't waste so much

(17:17):
product.
Mm-hmm.
'cause the growler were alwayslike Yeah.
Overflowing and spilling andsometimes waste a lot of product
and sometimes they come indirty.
Dirty.
Yeah.
They're dark and you can't, yourbeer tastes like crap because,
and they have a bunch of crap inthe bottom.
Yeah.
Growling spectrum.
And so we, we stopped.
Yeah.
We still fill them.
We will fill them and we'll doour due diligence to make sure

(17:39):
they're clean, but we stoppedselling them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we do everything in aluminum.
I mean, we have the, you know,we got on the, the Crowler
machines.
Um.
Kind of when those first cameout.
Yeah.
Which at this point has beenyears now, eight years ago or
so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think is a workhorse though.
Yeah.
So we got one of those at eachlocation.
So any beer you want, you cantake in that.

(18:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, and then, you know, we'rejust doing more of the, the
Yeah.
The cans.
More varieties.
Yeah.
12.
Well, I think that's one ouncepackage.
One of the trends that's changedreally since Covid Nation in
some part is like people drinkmore at home than they used to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, it used to be, uh,kind of this, uh, verboten
thing.
Mm-hmm.
And it's like, well, we can't goout, I guess.

(18:21):
Yeah.
We'll drink at home.
It is true.
I, yeah, we definitely see thatthere's a lot more packaging
going out, packaged beer goingout, so, yeah.
Yeah.
That, I mean, that kind of ebbsand flows somewhat.
Um, I think.
Kind of immediately after Covid,people couldn't wait to get back
in the Yeah.

(18:41):
Tap rooms.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They were, they were drinking athome.
And so, so it's kind of a mix.
It's kind of a mix.
A lot of people wanted to getback and be social, and we
definitely have that crowd too.
Um, but a lot of people enjoyedYeah.
Just drinking at, at home.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That liked being alone andthat's, you know, I mean, I,

(19:02):
there was, there was a few weeksI wished I could have just
hunkered down and not seenpeople.
Right.
We still had to work.
I wonder what the aggregate is.
Like if you, if you took likethe, all of the kind of
hospitality industries mm-hmm.
Especially the restaurants andbars and taverns and stuff.
My guess is that the people thatused to go out a ton now stay

(19:23):
home.
A little bit more.
Yep.
Which then puts a dent in the,in the restaurant industry.
Sure.
Well, I think the DoorDash,yeah, the DoorDash a lot, a lot
more.
Right.
But then DoorDash gets 20%.
I always say this or whatever.
I mean, we are, we're doordashing a lot because we have a
ice cream shop two doors downfrom us in Loveland and people
DoorDash, ice cream.
And it kind of cracks me upbecause whatever that pint of

(19:45):
ice cream costs you normallyyou're paying 25% more to have
it delivered to your house.
Right.
But they do it all time.
All the time.
That's half melted.
Maybe they put it in a cougar.
But it's definitely part of ourlifestyle now is, um, you know,
ordering in which before it wasa, you know, it was pizza.
A rarity.
Yeah, it was pizza when you didit.

(20:06):
Yeah.
And now it's all over the place,so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, um, let's talk about theoperations a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
So you've got a brewer in FortCollins and then another brewer
in Loveland.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
And Josh was the brewer.
So now he just kind of.
Jinx around are what, what's,what's your job, Josh?
What do you do for OT in thesedays?
Just, just whatever.
I mean, I'm janitor themaintenance man.
Yeah.

(20:26):
Supply coordinator.
That's mostly what I do.
Yeah.
Operations, supply coordinator.
I keep everything moving inproduction.
Yeah.
Gotcha.
Um, so you're ordering materialsa lot of times and stuff like
that, ordering materials,keeping, keeping it going, um,
filling in holes where there'slabor needs, right?
Yeah.
Head up, head up.
All QC basically.
Final jack of all position.

(20:46):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
So it's, it just got so busywith everything else that I just
couldn't, you know, what I lovedand what I still love is, you
know, get my hands dirty andbrewing, but it.
And, and I got to do that.
Mm-hmm.
Up until Covid.
And then it was just time tokind of, to, to reshift that and
focus in on the business part.
You don't do it ever even justfor kicks.

(21:07):
Yeah.
I'll jump in.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Now he does.
When he wants to make a certainbeer, he gets in there and bakes
that beer.
He gets a fresh idea.
He is like, okay, I'll let youknow.
I got it.
Root uhhuh.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That's usually, I mean,honestly, those are the beers
he's really passionate about.
Those are the beers that weoftentimes build metal with.
Yeah.
Because he just gets an idea inhis head and has to see it
through.
And how many medals have youguys had so far?

(21:29):
Oh, well, we've had two GABFmedals.
Yep.
Um, which for who?
Our killer boots.
Now our first one was LittleNonsense Barrel aged Imperial
Stout.
Oh, oh, yeah.
Yeah.
That's, and then that was early.
Yeah.
And then, um, our barley wine.
Mm-hmm.
Which is, seems like that's,we're, we're on a hot streak
with that right now.
Hmm.

(21:49):
Um.
And the World Beer Cup.
As far as the big ones, I meanthere's a bunch of small ones,
but the two big ones I alwaysthink of Great American Beer
Festival and the World Beer Cup.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And then there's like the USOpen, that's fairly big
competition.
A few others.
But yeah, those are the big, bigones.
But I think like the World BeerCup, we have seven now.
Yeah.
Dang.
Yeah.
A lot for our barley wine and,and for our barrel aged and dark

(22:11):
beers and stouts.
Yeah.
So that's why the barrel projectis such a big part of
especially.
And can you get those barrelproject beers up in the north
location too?
Uh, occasionally, yes.
Right now we have Mountain manDon sell'em too fast.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We have Mountain Man and cans,which is what we took our first
major metal ever was, uh, is theWorld House.
That was our first World Cupmedal.
Yeah.
At a year and a half old.
So.

(22:31):
Okay.
That was so exciting for us.
And so we bring that one backevery so often.
Is that a barley wine also?
It is Barley wine light is likewhat I like to call it.
I mean, technically it's, uh,English strong ale, so.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I think, uh.
Winter warmer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like it.
High A BV, but yeah.
Yeah.
But not quite a barley winesomewhere in between.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(22:51):
Yeah.
Not, not quite breaking stoolsover your friends.
Right.
But almost barley wines aren'treally, I mean, one of the sweet
things about barley wines isthat there are so sweet mm-hmm.
That, at least for me mm-hmm.
Who's not really a sweetconnoisseur.
Yeah.
A barley wine kind of restrictsmy desire to go back for another
sip, even though I love it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

(23:12):
Like, I just don't have thatcraving for a next sip, by the
way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You have to kind of love thatstyle sitting by a fire.
It's like a port wine in someways to me.
Correct.
Yeah.
It's, it's really, I mean, it'sthe strongest beer that the
English made and, um, so yeah, Imean it's, it's just, it's a
winter winter beer.
I mean, it's, it's, they weremaking it in the winter time and
it's would survive a long timebecause all the alcohol and I

(23:35):
think it's, uh, underappreciatedstyle.
Um, but it's definitely kind ofan acquired taste, special
occasion.
It's not an everyday drinker.
It's not a lawnmower beer.
Yeah, it's not a shower beer.
I mean, you can, yeah.
Yeah.
But it's funny, there's a wholeentire group on Facebook called
Barley Wine is Life.

(23:55):
And um, yeah, our brewers, he,he posts on there quite a bit,
but yeah, it's funny'cause they,there's a thing called like
barley wine chugging actuallyopening a can and chugging the
whole can change your day.
Yeah.
I like barley wine, but I'venever done it.
I like to sip on it.
They're usually like 11% orsomething like that.
Yeah, yeah.
Usually.
Yeah.
Double double digits and up.

(24:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, ours are a regular ones,the lowest is 11 and the highest
is.
Been 18.
Oh yeah.
And Angie, what's your, uh, howwould you describe your, uh,
your job Oh, at promoting thesedays?
If Josh is kind of operationsoverseer, I am the, the pencil

(24:36):
pusher, kinda the back of thehouse.
Yeah.
Finance, admin, hr.
Yeah.
All of that.
Um, and then I definitely, um,kind of am leading the gap, the
gap between the kitchen and thefront of house right now.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kind of, you know, helping bothof those at north.
Um, so it's, it's a lot of fun.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's, uh, I'm, I'mdefinitely usually the one
behind the scenes for sure.

(24:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah.
How much, uh, how much have youlearned?
Um, oh gosh, so much.
I mean, we're learning everyday.
The restaurant portion isalways, um, something new that,
that's a challenge to figureout, uh, you know, between
managing menus and food costingYeah.
And staffing.

(25:18):
Um, so it's kind of like, it'slittle, its own little worlds.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was just thinking about that.
Like, you know, a restaurantwill have a manager, right?
Mm-hmm.
But.
But that's with all the revenuesof the restaurant can pay that
manager when you've got a 15% or22% or 27% of your revenues.
Yes.
Like you can't have like a wholeYeah.

(25:38):
It's, it's not full-time chef,like figuring out your
restaurant enough moneymakerYeah.
To have its own human that justruns it.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
So, but, um, we have such anamazing team there now.
I think that's the biggest thingthat we've learned is that, you
know, you gotta have the rightpeople in place.
And now we have a friend ofhouse team and a back of house
team that work really welltogether.

(25:58):
That's also a hard thing toaccomplish.
It took us every bit of thefirst year to, to get that team
in place that works so goodtogether and get a new culture,
you know?
Yeah.
I mean, we have, you know, sucha defined culture in Loveland
and, and we know what it is.
Yeah.
And here we thought that thatwould be easier to figure out.
Yeah.
It was ing it was, it waschallenging to, to find what our

(26:20):
culture was.
Based upon our staff.
Well, I mean, ING and what we'redoing like in Loveland, you're
one of the OG breweries.
Mm-hmm.
First of all.
Yeah.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
And you got a great reputation.
Everybody knows about you right?
Downtown.
Mm-hmm.
You're kind of a.
Like the cool kids all wannacome work for you there, here in
Fort Collins.
Mm-hmm.
You're like, what's verboten?
Yes.

(26:40):
Mm-hmm.
It's funny.
It's, um, you know.
Yeah.
And Loveland, it's, it is verytrue.
People wanna work for us, uh,and people trust what we put
out.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
And so, um, we, I don't wannasay we don't have to work hard
'cause that's a big thing to,to, um, a big standard to keep.
Right.
But as long as we tow that line.
People come to us Right.

(27:00):
Moving into Fort Collins, youknow, we're, we have the, a good
reputation, but we still have toprove ourselves.
Sure, sure.
And so, you know, we've, we'vereally tried to focus on not
just having great beer, buthaving great food and having
great cocktails and having greatwine.
And, you know, it's.
The learning process has beenthat sometimes we miss the mark
on the way we do somethingbecause, you know, it's not, you

(27:23):
know, our You're newer at thispart.
Um, but I think that we've stillgot great beers.
Yeah.
We've got great cocktails.
We know that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I think that we've, like, wekeep, continue to learn from our
mistakes.
So I think that we've elevated,um, things as we've gone along.
We have this great kind ofhidden gin program that people
don't necessarily know, knowabout, but the ones that do come
in for it pretty solidly, wehave 30 gins on.

(27:45):
Oh boy.
And yeah.
And they can come in and weserve them differently than
other people do.
We serve them more like aEuropean gin bar would.
Um, we have the garnish and thegin and then the tonics on the
side, and they can kind of mixit themselves.
The, yeah.
Oh, that's, could you pick yourgarnish?
Pick your tonic.
Oh, that's really interesting.
Like with herbs and stuff, kindof.
Yeah.
We have all kinds of Yeah.
Have Oh, fun.
And some suggested, we have somesuggested ones too.

(28:07):
Yeah.
We can suggest a pairing orpeople can come in and play.
Huh.
And so it's kind of fun.
My, uh.
The chef of the restaurant whereI first worked in college, the
first restaurant I worked at.
Mm-hmm.
The Grainery, uh, Maurice, Ihope you're still with us, um,
but I kind of doubt it.
Um, but Maurice was a really bigguy, and, and after his shift

(28:27):
each day, he would have a, uh,skip and go naked at the bar
before he went home.
Do you know what that is?
No.
You could offer this.
This is a nice drink, Josh.
I'll let you put the recipetogether, but it's give or take,
um, three shots of gin in a,like an 18 ounce cocktail glass.
Mm-hmm.
Um, maybe, uh, like I, I guessit's just sour, like a gimlet

(28:49):
kind of, uh, limey kind ofstuff.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then top it all offwith.
Bud Light from the tap.
Wow.
Uh, so you got basically, isthat the naked part?
A beer and three shots of ginand an easy drinking Wow.
Vessel.
Oh, with ice.
With ice.
With ice, yes.
All right.

(29:09):
I'm gonna go back and make oneof these today.
It'll make you skip naked.
We pilsner.
Yeah.
Pilsner should work.
Yeah.
All right.
All right.
Well, we'll get back to you onhealth.
You might want to decrease theportion size.
Just a touch.
I say gin.
The gin can, yeah.
I really doubt you could skipmuch after that drink though.
No.
Well, when Reese was skipping300 pounds, skip three 40 pounds

(29:30):
maybe.
Oh, it's like a memory skip likeyour memory?
Yeah, more like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Usually he would just have oneand go home and I felt
comfortable.
But if he had a second one.
You didn't know what kind ofconversation we were gonna get
out to with Maurice.
Right.
It should be a wild, yeah.
Six shots and two beers,basically.
But he taught me a ton.
Like so much of what I actuallyknow about cooking in a
restaurant and, and whatever is,uh, yeah.

(29:51):
Yeah.
So, um, so talk about verbotenSouth now a little bit.
Like, uh, that's the barrelproject.
Yeah.
That's the mm-hmm.
More traditional.
Tap room, I guess, right?
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Definitely more traditional,more, um, uh, experimentation as
far as just, um, always doingsomething different there.
Kind of always looking forsomething fun to do.

(30:14):
Mm.
Um, yeah.
I mean, keeping that innovativemotion.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Um, and it's just, it's alwaysfun.
I mean, it's so much about beerknowledge and, um, uh, new, new
styles and experiment.
When I've been in there, I'vemet a lot of people that.
Are there all the time and it'sobvious.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
We have a lot of, I mean, wehave lot of regulars.
We have a lot of, we haveregulars that, that are there

(30:36):
more than we are.
I'm sure.
We have a lot of people that metthere that now are married and
mm-hmm.
And they come a lot of friendsand hang out Yeah.
And do other things togethernow.
And so, I mean, that, that's,that's what's cool about tap
rooms and that's what's alwaysbeen fun.
And the culture of Tap has thatand 12 years of, of community
there is amazing, like 12 yearsof Yeah.
Getting to know people.

(30:56):
Um, and so we have such ahistory there now that, uh, it
just makes it, it's really aspecial place.
I think it's just such part ofthe, um, the community now that
it's just, it would truly bemissed if we weren't there.
Yeah.
We just, you know, we're a placethat people meet after work, or
the first stop that people go tocelebrate something.

(31:18):
Yeah.
You know, so it's pretty coolthat we, yeah.
If somebody's having a bachelorparty downtown Loveland, you're
for sure one of the stops.
Yes.
Right.
Don't question about it.
Right.
And our, like, our employees,um, are part of the people's
families now.
They just know'em so well and somm-hmm.
You know, that's something thatit's, it's a tight weave down
there, and so we really lovethat part of it.
Yeah.

(31:38):
Josh, what's the name of thisone?
This, uh, the West Coast.
Uh, this is Give me time.
Give me time.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, just West Coast IPA.
Yeah.
Um, pretty classic West Coast.
I would say both like your hazyand your West Coast are pretty
mm-hmm.
Mainstream.
Mm-hmm.
Very good.
Good.
Yes.
Within that, but, uh, notshocking in any particular

(31:59):
fashion.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Do you have a, do you have afavorite, you favorite one over
the other?
Uh, well, I mean, I like hazy.
Yeah.
Generally speaking, I, I drinkmore haes.
It's, it's, mm-hmm.
You know, when I, when I findthat West Coast that I like,
it's just my mood.
I mean, I'm a, I'm a hop head atheart, like, you know, people
always ask me, I'm surprise, youhaven't yet what my favorite

(32:21):
beer is, and my answer alwaysis.
The beer in my hand.
But, um, what I get after, youknow, shift, long day.
Usually something hoppy, a lotof times it's a pilsner or
something light.
But yeah, I always go to go tohoppy.
If we're visiting a brewerysomewhere, I'm always gonna try
whatever hoppy they have on.
Mm-hmm.

(32:41):
I just, I just love thedifference in hops.
How can change, change just abase beer style and be so
different within that style?
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
The same malt in it, same yeasteven.
And then the different hops, howdifferent that beer can be,
where everything else is thesame.
But at the, uh, at thegreenhouse there that I just
described to you.

(33:01):
Mm-hmm.
Um, the two most popular ordersfrom me and Jill, uh, she was
getting the crank anchor.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and then I was getting, oh,it was, I think it's called
like.
Epic day.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
A double IPA from the same, uhmm-hmm.
Is it Una Vista?
No.
Eddie Line.
Eddie Line.
Eddie Line Brewing Company.

(33:22):
Mm-hmm.
They do a pretty good work downthere.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
They make great, great stuff.
Yeah.
Jill was like, she hates doubleIPAs and Imperials usually'cause
they're too sweet for her.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, but that one, she was like,oh, that's pretty good.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Nice.
I was like, we be careful withthat.
That's, that was actually thefirst, first IPI liked was a
double.
Interesting.
So that cut my teeth on craftbeer and IPA, this was during

(33:43):
the Hop Wars when, when Stoneand everyone, you know, stone
Brewery and everyone outtaCalifornia was just, who could
make the most bitter, the mostover the top hockey like the IBU
Wars, you know, it was IBU Warsinter International Bitterness
units was.
Signifies how the contrastbitter the beer is, right?
So they were just trying to gohigher and higher and make the

(34:05):
most bitter thing and who couldget more bitterness out of it.
And it was kind of a jokebecause your palate can only
taste so much bitternessanyways, right?
It could be, it shuts down forit own purpose.
It could be 90 IV or 5,000 andit's not gonna taste any more
bitter.
So it's a lot of just waste.
But it came up during that timeand it was like, man, this is
stuff is taking the varnish offmy teeth right now.

(34:27):
And it wasn't that enjoyable.
So it wasn't until the doubleIPA where that sweetness, it
wasn't just all aboutbitterness, it was that little
sweetness back into it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That it was like, okay, actuallyI like this one and, and now
that, you know, fortunatelythat's changed.
Everybody's brought it down andgot it to a level that's more
approachable.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like, yeah.

(34:47):
IPAs now that are being producedare just, they're, they're so
much more enjoy, enjoyable.
I feel like we're, we're comingto this really great spot with
IPAs where, uh, we understandwhat we're doing.
People know what to do with hopsnow and how to treat them and,
and so yeah, the product overallis just so much better.
Yeah.
Yeah, I would agree.
Like it's mm-hmm.
Become refined.
Yeah.

(35:07):
Yes.
Not the wild wild West anymore,which I kind of enjoyed parts of
the Wild, wild West, but therewas some real.
The shock value is not so great.
Sometimes it's not as, yeah.
Important to people.
They want more drinkability outof what they're, they're
enjoying.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And what's next for you guys?
Are you like, uh, well, FortCollins is stable, let's do a
third location, or is thatsomething that you think about

(35:29):
ever?
No.
Um, I don't know.
Josh and I, we, um, we, we just,I was trying to keep this going.
Yeah.
We we're focused on just, youknow, continuing to make
everything run smoothly.
Yeah.
Um, Josh and I love to travel,so our idea is more to get
everybody where they need to beand happy.
And then check out for if we canmake a little money.

(35:50):
Yeah.
And have you guys just prettymuch take care of it.
Yeah.
That's kind of the goal.
It can, if it can fuel ourtravel a little bit, that's
awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
And we gotta get that point.
I mean, you know, we've learnedwe gotta invest in your people
and Yeah.
Make sure that they're good.
Um.
And you can't just be checkedout on them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, you know, I mean, we'reworking step Yeah.

(36:11):
The owner checked out.
Next step now is like, it'shard.
Yeah.
I mean our next step now is justmaking sure that everyone is in
a good place that works for us.
They're happy.
Yeah.
We take care of them.
They're comfortable enough wherethey don't need us day to day
and, and, and we could actuallytake.
You know, and travel a littlebit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, if we, you know, that's,that's a dream.

(36:31):
Have you guys traveled muchlately, or, uh, well, with this
new location, probably not somuch.
Not in the last year since weopened the new location, but my
sister is getting married inItaly, so for our one year
anniversary for the Fort Collinslocation, we're having a big IPA
festival.
It's our hopper anniversary.
Okay.
Yep.
Um, we're gonna have 20 plusIPAs, uh, most.

(36:53):
Of them ours.
But then a, a, a few guestguests tap too.
Yeah, several guests actuallyprobably half and half.
Um, and then the next day we flyto Italy for boy Okay.
For my sister's wedding andwhatever devastation has left
over.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So that'll be our first big tripsince we opened, but, um, yeah.
That's awesome though.
I was gonna say, it's just beena year, so I think that was my

(37:15):
promise to you is to make surethis episode comes out before
the hop anniversary.
Yes.
Yes.
So what's the It's Saturday.
It's uh, Saturday, April 26th.
Okay.
Um, it's, we, it'll be open tothe public.
You can walk in.
Um, but we also have a VIP, uh,session that will kind of, uh,
have its own hour to tryeverything and then just
ticketed.
Yeah.

(37:35):
And then, um, after that it'sfour and eight ounces.
Come in and try what you want.
Little fun.
Yeah.
Kinda old school beer festivalkind of thing.
Yeah, yeah.
A little bit.
And yeah, it should be fun.
It, I like it.
Yeah.
It's parking lot party a littlebit too.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
I take it some DJs, uh, somefood.
It, it'll be fun.
Awesome.
Um, and then what a week?
10 days and two weeks.

(37:56):
I love it.
Two weeks.
We're actually, finally, we'regonna go to Italy and then, um,
Belgium and Germany.
So be Oh, wow.
Yeah.
We'll be on Sardinia for thewedding.
So it's a work trip.
At least the part is Belgium.
Belgium and Germany.
Now that we, on a business,everything is a work trip.
As long as Iris or the otherIris isn't listening right now.
No.
We're going to end at the, theFroing Fest.

(38:16):
I think I'm saying thatrighting.
I don't know.
German Fest.
It's a, it's the Spring BeerFest in Munich.
Oh yeah.
So it's a, it's, it's miniatureOctober Fest.
So like October Fest, it's likea fourth of the size.
I like it.
Of Octoberfest.
But you could still get 30,especially same thing, three
ounce.
Yeah.
Yes.
Boots in the big tent in themusic and all that.
So the whole thing, I like it.

(38:36):
So that's mm-hmm.
We haven't got to go to OctoberFest.
It's a bucket list item for us,but we thought, oh, we gotta go
for a wedding.
It's a mini October fest.
This is happening now.
Anyway, so, yeah.
So that'll be well easy intothe, so yeah, of course.
Like I said, it's a beer cation.
Well, I, we do beer occasion.
Well, I'm confident you'll comeback to a sustainable operation
and Uhhuh, maybe it'll even workbetter and give you more

(38:56):
confidence.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
I mean, like I said, our team isso awesome.
They, they'll have it.
They, they're, they're greatpeople.
So I dig it.
Yeah.
Um, I am feeling like, uh, wemight wanna jump back soon.
Mm-hmm.
But let's go ahead and have ashort break.
'cause me and Josh are bothempty on our beer.
Okay?
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Sounds good.

(40:12):
And we're back.
Uh, and, uh, so what I wanna do,'cause you, I think I got
acquainted with you guys justafter you opened mm-hmm.
Probably way back in the day onThais Court.
Uh, Taurus.
Yes.
Taurus Court.
Yes.
Yes.
Like, oh, let's, let's go backto like a, a year before.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, you opened verboten.
Was it even an IDA yet or hadyou been planning it for years?

(40:34):
It was, what was the situation?
Yeah.
We've been working on it for acouple years.
Okay.
Yeah.
I, I think looking for the rightlocation.
Yeah.
I mean, sounds crazy now, butwe, uh.
We were living in Fort Collinsand we, we were looking all
around, but specifically inLoveland.
'cause we thought Fort Collinswas oversaturated with

(40:54):
breweries.
They hadn't seen anything yet.
It was probably going on 15years ago now.
Yeah, right.
I'm like, how, why did we thinkthat?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, so he is, we're like,well, Loveland has less brewers.
Breweries.
And, um, there was a, adistiller across the street from
the space, and he was a friendof ours and he's like, Hey, this

(41:15):
building is available.
You wanna come look at it?
And was that Spring 44?
Uh, no.
When, when was that?
Dancing Pines.
Dancing Pines, okay.
Yes.
Long gone.
Sold to, uh, family Jones.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now in the building there.
Mm-hmm.
On tourist court.
But yeah, it seemed like a, likea great kind of marriage to have
us both in this little bit moreindustrial area.
Maybe we'd both bring people inand so yeah, we were, we started

(41:37):
thinking about it.
He was obsessed with the beer.
I just wanted to own my ownbusiness.
Um, and so it.
Was a good time.
We, you know, we didn't haveanything to prevent us.
We didn't have kids, so Yeah.
There wasn't, uh, that concernif you go broke.
Well, I can just work long.
Us and the dog.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, and what were you, what wereyou doing Josh?

(41:59):
At the time?
I did it for a small company.
Um, I was a hardware guy, so,okay.
I would fix broken hard drivesand, you know, memory issues.
And did they do that, rebuildcomputers for customers or you
I, yeah.
Did that for their company.
I did that for this company.
It was just, I mean, it was twoof us.
Gotcha.
Two man shop.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you did it for othercompanies like, yeah, we did it

(42:19):
for other companies.
So kind of that, you know, five,uh, three to 15 employee range.
Right, right.
Where you would need help, youknow, something breaks in-house,
even a printer, you know, I waskind of the hardware guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it was a great job.
I really liked it.
It was a leap.
Um, I worked a lot from home.
Um, I enjoyed the job.

(42:41):
I could go out and, and.
Play disc golf or golf, youknow, you were kinda on call,
take a lot, a lot of lunch.
Yeah.
On call, but after work nights.
And I didn't mind that so much.
And so it was, it was a nice,nice job.
I, I liked, I liked that.
And so even when this came up todo this, I was like, ah, man,
I'm gonna trade like a job.

(43:02):
I was working 30 ish hours andI'm gonna go to 60 to 80.
Yeah.
This is that, that was the hardleap I think, you know, are you
really sure?
Yeah.
You know, and I was makingdecent money.
So Was it your drive really?
Like he was home brewing and youwere like, I'm gonna go ahead
and ride this Tony?
Probably, yeah.
I think if I hadn't been like,let's do it, let's go for it.

(43:23):
He, yeah.
He wouldn't, he'd have juststayed as a home brewer and I
love beer enough.
I was like, all right.
Yeah.
I mean, I can make beer.
Mm-hmm.
And it's gonna be, yeah.
Yeah.
It's gonna be a lot of fun.
She's gonna work on the businesspart and the unfun stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And what were you, what were youdoing at the time?
Um, I was, um, editor for NOCOStyle magazine.

(43:44):
Mm-hmm.
Um, yeah.
And I had been like a freelancerfor them for years, then went on
as editors, so, yeah.
So that was your backgroundmm-hmm.
Was kind of writing contentcreation, things like that.
Exactly.
So the brand, this old.
Uh, growler from literallyprobably 12 years ago, or 11
years ago or something, uh, hasbeen my water bottle Yep.
Here at the office for a longtime.

(44:05):
Yep.
I remember when we had a, acouple that we started the
brewery with, and I remember we,I would just send off lists of
words and name possibilities andOh, interesting.
Yeah.
And then, um, Otten was the onethat everybody kinda gravitated
towards and that we could builda story around.
Oh, so you started with anothercouple at first?
Yeah, we had another couple.
Okay.
They, they ironically had ayoung child, and so about a year

(44:28):
and a half in, they realizedthat, hey, the work load was 60
hour weeks.
It wasn't all fun.
Yeah.
It wasn't, it, it's, you didn'tstart making a bunch of money
right away.
No, they were, they talk to newbusiness owners, new brewery
owners, you know, all the time.
Like, don't forget, this's stilla business.
Like you have to work hard atthis.
It's still, there's still moneyinvolved and brewing and there's
a lot of fun to it, but there'sa lot of things that aren't fun.

(44:51):
Right.
So you have to embrace.
Both.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and like to be preparedfor both, how much did it cost?
Like you had a relativelyaffordable location.
Yeah.
Couple of, I mean, you know,things, I feel like we got into
it for right around a hundredthousand at the time.
Oh wow.
So that was pretty low.
But we started with a threebarrel baby.

(45:11):
Oh, gotcha.
Brewing 90 gallons at a time,you know, so now we're at a 15
barrel, you know, brew house inLoveland and still have that
three barrel.
Yeah, yeah.
We still have the three barrel.
That's your experimental thingstill to action.
Yeah.
So, but yeah, so it wasn't ahuge, it wasn't a huge capital
thing.
Yeah.
Capital investment.
But it was a lot of time andenergy.

(45:32):
Sure.
And I feel like that's the thingthat trips, um, business owners
up sometimes is, yeah.
I mean, you can come up withcapital, it's sometimes it's a
pain, but you can come up withit.
Yep.
Um, but, you know, putting inthe hours, that's a whole
different animal.
And I feel like that's sometimesis where we lose people.
So you were.
You stayed as editor for thestyle for a while too, right?
Yeah.

(45:52):
Yes.
Like you were doing both?
Yeah.
We had an agreement with theother couple that Josh would be
the first to go full-time and Iwould be the last to go full
time.
Oh, okay.
Um,'cause you had a job kind ofmore Yeah, but we So a paying
job.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But we ended up buying them outat about two and a half years
in.
Okay.
And so when we bought them out,then I came on full-time to
help.
Yeah.
But then, uh, you know, likethroughout the years I've gone

(46:15):
back to working full-time for myold job.
Uh, you know, you do what thebusiness needs and sometimes it
needed me to go away if you needto hire somebody to do
something.
Well, yeah.
If it didn't have the money forme.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Well, I think that's a greatkind of tip of the hat toward
the sacrifice that can beinvolved with launching a
business.
Mm-hmm.
And even for running it for awhile.
Right?

(46:35):
Yeah.
I mean, you know, you look atbusinesses that have been there
for a long time.
You, I have a huge respect for'em because, you know, it's
never stagnant.
It never stays the same.
And so you have to roll with thepunches mm-hmm.
Over and over again and.
So what was your drive to tohave your own business?
Was it because you were in smallbusiness?
I think because you grew up in afamily like that.

(46:56):
I think I grew up in a familylike that.
Okay.
We had a family that was.
Uh, you know, crazy.
Never, never had a, a setschedule, always doing different
things.
If we went on a family vacation,we decided the day before to go.
Right.
Because, you know, my dad,things are kind of quiet right
now.
Let's go.
Yeah.
My dad had his own business, hehad several businesses.

(47:16):
So I think that, um, that driveto kind of drive my own ship
too.
Yeah.
I really like to be able to bemy own boss and Yeah.
And so I always liked that.
And I like the idea of buildingsomething.
I mean, that's the thing thathas kept us going is Josh's love
of what he did and my love ofwatching it grow and seeing it

(47:38):
be successful.
Yeah.
That is huge to me.
That's the people, it's thenumbers, it's all, it's the
whole, that whole thing.
Yeah.
When it comes together and it'slike important to people, that's
pretty cool.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So.
Did it catch on right away?
Like No, I mean, you, it was arough location to be honest.
Yeah.
It was a rough location.
So when we, um, bought out ourbusiness partners, we also moved

(48:02):
Oh.
And at that time we moved todowntown.
Yeah.
So it was, we were shut down forfive months.
It was Well, and you had to findsome capital Yeah.
Both to buy them out and tobuild out this new place and
stuff.
Yes.
Thank goodness for, uh, realestate.
We sold a house and, and theproceeds, um, we were able to
use to kinda help the businessmove and, yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, and then we, and when wasthis?

(48:22):
This was, uh, we shut down in2015 and reopened in, in 2016.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
So And so you had a period oftime.
Yeah.
Did you have.
Wholesale production going oranything at that time?
Or you a brew bunch?
We were contract brewing.
Yeah.
Um, snowbank.
Snowbank now.
Okay.
Tim, which is now Tim is inthat.
Okay.
Yep.
Um, they were doing our contractbrewing.
I remember the, when they weredoing some contract brewing for

(48:42):
a while.
I mean, we were barely hangingon there for a minute.
Is that right?
Yeah.
And because it also, theindustry was changing to where
the tap room was your moneymaker.
Right.
You know, like, uh, wholesalethat could supplement it, but
really your money was made inthe tap room and so, so you had
to have a cool place.
Yeah.
And, and moving downtown, wekind of always felt like that
would match us better anyways.

(49:04):
We love the history, we love thepeople.
We love to be around.
Yeah.
You know, the, the downtown, um,vibrancy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
And so anyways moving there,it's, but it still, you know, it
wasn't.
Um, I wouldn't say it was reallysustainable until, um, right
about the, the pandemic.
I think things changed a littlebit.

(49:26):
Like, I think after the pandemicdowntown Loveland really
activated in a way that ithadn't before.
Yeah.
And so people, instead of going,um, leaving town on the weekends
to go to Fort Collins for dinnerHmm.
They were staying in Loveland.
Oh.
And they were starting to reallysee some new businesses come in.
Yeah.
And, and so that I think is, Iremember that about Loveland
during the pandemic Yeah.

(49:46):
Is there was a lot more kind of,not to, you know, insult Fort
Collins or the Chamber here orwhatever, but Loveland really
bonded together at all in a muchdifferent way.
Yeah.
I, it just was, yeah.
Mainly they, they got us heat,uh, they were.
They paid our rent, Lance, thepatio.
Oh, really?
Paid our rent for one year, onemonth.
They paid our rent, um, througha And propane tanks.

(50:08):
Yeah.
And propane, like a, a stipendper month.
And they just, they reallyworked hard and they also, they
paid for everything outside allthe patio space.
Yeah.
They also kept events going indowntown through the summer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, they had to be, ofcourse, outdoors, but they kept
out live music going.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think it just meant somuch to, uh, the community that

(50:31):
Yeah.
I, after that, uh, downtownLoven was a different animal.
Yeah.
Cool.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You know, I, I think, uh, wedidn't, I mean, we saw a lot of
efforts mm-hmm.
And a lot of changes.
Yeah.
And, you know, tents where youcould eat outside mm-hmm.
And stuff like that in FortCollins, but it wasn't the same
kind of Yeah.
We're all in this together kindof vibe, so, yeah.
And then maybe it's,'cause um,Lovelands downtown is smaller.

(50:54):
Yeah.
So they could, they could dothat.
Yeah.
More approachable.
Yeah.
Kinda.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
That makes sense.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
So when did you kind of comeback into full-time?
Uh, were you there working alittle bit for a while or did
you No.
So from November, 2019 until,um, what was it, uh, two years

(51:16):
ago in May, I was workingfull-time.
Uh, for, uh, NOCO Style Magazineand part-time for Loveland, um,
tap room.
And, uh, did that for a minute.
Then, uh, may, I was like, ah, Ican't split my brain and my
energy this way anymore.
Yeah, too hard.
So, yeah, so I, uh, left themagazine.
I just freelance occasionallyfor them now, which is fun.

(51:38):
Um, but I came back to Lovelandand then about a year later,
well less than a year later,were.
Deciding to open a secondlocation.
Well, it was kind of like, well,I got, there's, yeah.
There's enough of me.
I got a little more of me now.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, where I was superspread thin as a one third time
employee.
And I think once you, once youstart a business, you, you have

(51:59):
to strive to start like three orfour more.
Right.
So, so, you know, we werethinking a second location might
be kind of cool, and I was like,and to be able to do something a
little bit different.
Yeah.
That kind of, I don't know,pulls in some of my passions
too.
I do love food, Josh and I, um,we, food is a big part of our
lives.
Yeah.

(52:20):
Yeah.
So we love to cook.
We love to go out to eat.
Um, anyways, to be able to dothese things was really exciting
and Yeah.
Fed your creativity a little bitmore than just in a different
way.
Do, how do we Yeah.
I feel like that's incrementallyimprove the level and locations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's a lot.
You know, the entrepreneur songYeah.
Is, is at some point anentrepreneur wants the next

(52:40):
challenge.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A little bit.
Yeah.
And, and maybe, maybe, you know,they're, whatever they're doing
is always a challenge, but, um,yeah, you're always cursing
yourself.
Yeah.
You're just in the process.
So we just felt like this waslike the next challenge.
Mm-hmm.
Like what's the next challengeafter being in this, at that
point when we started thinkingabout was 10 years or 10 year,
and it's like, yeah, what's thenext thing?

(53:01):
What's, what's the nextchallenge for us?
You know?
Yeah.
Fine dining.
It was fine dining.
Fine dining.
Get that Michelin star beforeyou were 50.
Oh boy.
Another, another restaurant.
Maybe just restaurant only thistime.
Yeah.
I kid, I kid and old though.
That's a problem.
It is.
And the energy doesn't quitelike where it was month.
Yeah, yeah.

(53:22):
We're both, uh, courting 50, soare you?
Yes.
Uhhuh.
I just turned last summer, so,uh, yeah.
So it is true that you don'tquite like the, the idea of 60
hour weeks now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like starting, you know, 38 is alot different.
Or 39 or whatever.
It's 38 when the business, yeah.
Yeah.
It's, uh, yeah, like kind of theswan song of the, uh, 60 hour,

(53:44):
week willingness kind of thing,right?
Yeah, no.
So let's, uh, let's do, um, likeif your key employees that have
been with you the longestmm-hmm.
Um, if they were here in thestudio and I asked them, what,
what do you think really setsverboten apart?
Like, why, why have you beenhere for so long?

(54:04):
Oh yeah.
Well, what would they say?
I feel like they would say a,that the beer is really great.
Yeah.
And that they travel and theysee that our product is really
amazing.
But that also it is, uh, afamily endeavor.
Like we, we never say that if wetook a medal, it was because,

(54:25):
um, so and so made one greatbeer.
We always think like, we tookthat medal because all the
things aligned.
The team effort was there, theteam was happy, and so the
brewer was happy.
And so we had the ability tofocus in, in a really great way.
In that moment in time, there'sjust never been a, a moment
where, you know, everything wasfalling down around us and we

(54:48):
still produced a, a medalwinning beer.
Yeah.
It has always been thateverybody was kind of in this
really great space.
You were in your groove kind of.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And I would say they, they wouldsay, and I've heard them say
this, you know, we share thesame passion mm-hmm.
For the industry.
Yeah.
Um.
And that they appreciate thatwe're around and that we're
interested.

(55:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that we're, we're there.
Yeah.
Invested.
Yes.
Invested.
Mm-hmm.
You know, we're, we're, we'renot just off in the scenes, you
know, asking where the money is.
Yeah.
Driving your Mercedes around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fancy trips in Europe andwhatnot.
Yeah.
No, we still come back and, Imean, there's no job in, in
either space that we wouldn't doif we were called in to do it.

(55:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's means a lotto them too.
It's part of the culture.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It is.
I should work hard because Joshand Angie work hard.
Yeah.
And they care about people andso I should care about people.
Yeah.
Think that all those things,that's important.
Lead by example.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fair enough.
Um, let's go to, uh, littleAngie first.
Oh, because I know Josh, youwere b you were born and raised

(55:52):
in Fort Collins.
Is that true?
Uhhuh.
Okay, that's true.
So I know that part already.
Yeah.
'cause we stumbled on it.
And where's little Angie at?
I come from West Virginiaplaces.
West Virginia?
Yep.
Interesting.
Yep.
Oh, it was a Kentucky Common.
Was that Yeah.
Unusual brand I was thinking,yeah.
So West Virginia.
That's West Virginia.
That's a real west in the city.
Girl of West Virginia or realcountry girl.
Real country girl.

(56:13):
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, one of five.
Um, but I think I mentioned it.
My, my dad, he owned severalbusinesses.
He had wanderlust like youwouldn't believe.
I think, you know, it was onlymy mom that kept us in one
place.
He was like, let's move toBelize and let's move to this
place.
I read about and build houses inChina.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When I was 16, he tried to get.

(56:34):
Us to move to Estes Park,ironically.
Oh.
And start a business there.
And, um, and what were thesebusinesses, what was he in
construction or retail or?
Well, he, uh, he, uh, buys andsells used equipment.
Mm-hmm.
Um, he had a trucking businessfor a while.
Um, and then he has, uh, he wasgonna build log cabins for a

(56:57):
while.
He did a little bit and, yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, he has a short attentionspan.
Kind of, kind of a dreamer typea little bit.
Yes, yes.
And so I, I have a fair share ofthat in me.
Yes.
I, I love the idea of a newchallenge.
I can't sit still for very long.
I get bored pretty easy.
And you were one of five andwhere in the order?
I was the second child.

(57:18):
First girl.
Okay.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So also, so the most responsiblethe whole time.
Yes.
Also the, the boss when, whenthey weren't around, so, yeah.
Yeah.
When I met her, it's the firsttime I went to the house.
You turn on a road, dirt road,it's called Next Road.
Mm-hmm.
You drive a few miles back andthen there's this log cabin on

(57:38):
35 acres in the woods in WestVirginia.
Mm-hmm.
So give you an idea.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Country girl for sure.
Like chickens and crit and stufftoo, all that.
But we also like wild children,we just wandered wherever we
wanted.
And with bare feet.
Yeah.
Like chasing raccoons.
Mm-hmm.
And whatever else mean, herolder brother would, he'd go for
days, he'd just go into thewoods and go on for days and
then, yeah.

(57:59):
Interesting.
But sometimes they'd get, so faryou'd have to call home and say,
come get me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was great though because wewere all like creative in our
own ways and For sure.
And so, so I did always want tobe this journalist that, uh, you
know, was reporting on whatever,telling stories about a cool,
interesting things around andstuff.

(58:19):
Um, and so that was justsomething that stuck with me for
a long time.
And then I always wanted to ownmy own business and drive my own
destiny, so, yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
So what did that look like asyou developed into a young lady?
Like were you a good student?
Were you, uh, yes.
I, yep.
I got a scholarship to go toWest Virginia University.

(58:39):
Okay.
As a journalism major.
Uh, did that, um, met outtaschool, uh, graduated.
Then a couple years later, metJosh through mutual friends.
Okay.
When he was in Ohio.
And so at the time I thoughtmaybe I'd move to like
Pittsburgh or another city.
I, yeah.
Yeah.
I had a big desire to go to acity.
Um, and then instead he lured meto Fort Collins.

(59:01):
So, well, and we'll come back tohim.
It's easy why you were in Ohio,but I just have her visit once
and you're like, do you wannamove to Colorado?
Colorado?
Yes.
She said that way.
So Josh, uh, gimme thecircumstances of your, uh,
youth, if you will.
Yeah, grew up, uh, in FortCollins, actually.
LaPorte.
Okay.
Um, oh yeah.
So, which is still kinda likethe West Virginia of Northern

(59:23):
Colorado.
Northern Colorado.
Yep.
It's close.
Love you LaPorte.
I would move there if I had achance.
Even I'm on La Porte Avenueeven, right?
Oh yeah.
His mom's still, it's Spanishfor the port LA port.
Yeah.
Um, my mom still lives in thehouse that I grew up in.
Oh, cool.
Um, my dad died, you know, 20years ago now, but he grew up in
Wellington on a farm.

(59:43):
Okay.
And so he was, he was a farm boyat heart and I think he always
hated, you know, living in, hadto have some dumb job and living
a house.
Not have any chickens or goatsor anything.
Don't think.
Oh, well we had chickens andgoats and rabbits on the top,
but not a real farm.
Oh.
You know.
Oh, in the backyard.
Pretty small house in LaPorte.
Um.

(01:00:04):
And so, yeah, I, you know, I wasin the area, you know, a long
time and had family here andmiddle child and, um, graduated
high school, putter high school.
Were you, uh, went to FrontRange Good kid too and Yeah.
Front range.
Did not, didn't get ascholarship or anything.
Yeah.
No, no.
I mean, I, I I was gonna be amusician, so Oh really?

(01:00:25):
I mean, I still like still playa band, the guitar.
Yeah.
I was, I was gonna be a rockstar and all the world.
That's, that.
That didn't happen, obviously.
I, me Hess in plays guitar.
Oh, I still do.
But that's important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I thought that was gonna bewhat I was gonna do and um,
yeah, that didn't turn out somuch, but, so when I realized
that, that was So how hard didyour push at it?

(01:00:45):
Uh, I mean, pretty, we had aband.
We tried, we a band real hard.
Yeah.
We tried hard.
Jimmy quit.
Exactly.
Jodi got married.
Yeah, that's exactly, yeah.
Something like that.
That, that song, that's exactlywhat happened.
Um.
So, yeah.
So you went to Ohio and met thisgirl?
Yeah.
I went to Ohio and met, youknow, for what it was like,

(01:01:05):
well, like a summer, he drove abeat up, uh, Chave to Memphis?
Yeah.
Me and a buddy.
Oh, okay.
So this is part of the musicdream still.
Yeah.
And Memphis was like, yeah, meand a buddy.
Yeah.
He played drums and I playedguitar and sang and Okay.
We drove his 67 Chevelle toMemphis.
Um, and long story short, weended up in Ohio.

(01:01:29):
He had some family there, and weneeded money and they had a job
for us in the summer.
Right.
And so we worked for, for hisfamily during the summer in
Ohio.
And we were on the other side ofthe river, of the Ohio River, on
the Ohio side.
And she was on the West Virginiaside.
The Ohio.
I see.
I see.
Mm-hmm.
So we met through friends.
You see the shorty across theriver?
Yeah, yeah.

(01:01:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She, she, she invited me to ahockey game, and then the rest
is history.
Mm-hmm.
You're like, well, good.
I don't really have a.
Place to stay or anything sued.
Yeah.
He was like, oh, look how itwas.
I was just a meal ticket.
Yeah.
Him and I were, him and I wereliving in a room on his
grandma's double wide trailer.

(01:02:13):
That's where we were.
So, and it was uphill from, fromthere.
The first date scenario, it wasglamorous and what was, it was
uphill from there.
What was alluring to this, uh,young, uh, wannabe musician.
He's asking you that question.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, what was alluring to me?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
I mean, this has been 20.
Uh, 30 years ago.
I think I know the answer.

(01:02:33):
I'm sure you still remember it.
Uh, I always tell people Joshcould dance.
Oh, he could dance.
Interesting.
I grew up in Colorado, so like atwo step.
I like it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I grew up in Colorado, you know,in the port, so, and he was
funny.
I'm from North Dakota.
We have two step, the NorthDakota, no step there.
So I just You do a shi shimmy.
Yeah, shimmy.
More of a shimmy.
My feet just stay in the sameplace and I, I just move other
stuff.

(01:02:53):
Well, that's cool.
I wouldn't have guessed you tobe a, a good two step Joshua
Laport.
Yeah.
There's depths to Josh.
Couldn't.
Yeah.
I don't doubt it.
I don't doubt it, but yeah.
LaPorte in the late eighties,early nineties, you had to two
step, it was just a rules.
What was the Country Bar?
Swing Station, Sundance.
Sance.
Oh, sure.
Oh, oh yeah.
We went dancing at Sun.
Okay.
At the Sundance.
So, so you meet up your, it'ssummer, you kind of decided the

(01:03:17):
Memphis thing wasn't gonna workout, and then you like talked
this girl and then move intomm-hmm.
Fort Collins with you orsomething?
Yeah, ish.
We dated in Ohio for about ayear.
Then you got homesick and camehome and drove a school bus.
You bought a Schoolie?
Yeah, yeah.
Rode a school bus to get my CDL.
Oh, I see, I see.
He was, I get married and need areal job.
Right, right.
So I'm gonna Interesting.

(01:03:37):
I like driving stuff and Yeah,running equipment.
So I've got a CDL and that wasthe, the easiest way to get into
that.
I went on to drove school busfor a year, but then I drove,
uh, Budweiser semi truck forBudweiser.
Yeah.
That was my first experience inthe beer world up here.
Yeah.
Right after we were firstmarried, I, I drove.
Interesting.
Drove, um.
Yeah.

(01:03:57):
And delivered Budweiser here inNorthern Colorado.
And what was your circumstancein life at this time, Angie?
Were you graduated from college?
Graduated college from, or youwere dating this guy from
college and then he like, yep.
Moves away.
Were you heartbroken?
He moves away.
Well, he moves away, then hecomes back to visit and we get
engaged.
Oh.
So then, then I made the, thedecision to move here.
I see.
To Fort Collins.

(01:04:18):
I brought along my littlebrother.
Um, he, he moved with me.
He was 18 at the time.
Yeah.
Um, and yeah, we just, uh, wedrove, Josh flew out, we drove
us across country.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, and then my first job wasfor, um, well, was waitressing
and then my.
Uh, and then I got a freelancejob for a little now, defunct

(01:04:38):
newspaper, which is, uh, uh, theBullhorn or Spec Forum?
The C forum Forum.
Forum.
Okay.
Yeah, I wasn't familiar withthat one.
Yeah.
So that was, it was around formaybe two, three years.
Okay.
Um, and then I, ironically, Ihad, uh, started freelancing for
NOCO Style way before I everWow.
Um, became editor there.
Yeah.

(01:04:58):
Yeah.
But yeah, so we, I freelancedfor those two, um, and then
waited tables, and then I workedfor a So you were just kinda
stringing it together with Oh,yeah.
Some freelancing here.
Mm-hmm.
Some weight tables there, stufflike that.
Uh, I worked for a interiorplant company, so I watered
people's plants.
Mm.
That was actually fun.
I'm sure you're pretty good atthat too.
You're very friendly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then I ran the company for himfor a little while, so I Oh,

(01:05:19):
wow.
I did kind of move up in that.
Um, so I guess I was kind ofsetting the stage for Yeah.
Running a company later, butyeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I dig it.
Yeah.
Can you ever imagine yourselfrunning more than one business?
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I would have a retail business.
Okay.
And a steak place and like asteakhouse.
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean, you know, dig it.

(01:05:40):
We talk about these things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So importing, exporting, Idunno, you know, it's hard to
All the things Yeah.
Contain brain, A slice off ofyour father.
Significant measure.
Yeah.
I have to, I have to be the reelit in voice of reason sometimes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
With what time will we do that?
Josh is the voice of No.
And then maybe, and thenfinally.

(01:06:01):
Okay.
So sometimes, yeah, sometimes Idig it, sometimes she convinces
me.
Makes a, makes a good argument.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well I could, well, here youare, right?
Like you could still be doing ithardware stuff for a small
company.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, so goesworking 30 hours a week and.
Playing golf.
Yeah.
He could be doing that.

(01:06:21):
But during the day, Frisbeegolf, I don't miss that at all.
You just need to get so good atyour, your job that you don't
have fires anymore.
Yeah.
And then you can kind of screwaround after 2:00 PM every day.
No, but seriously, he stillworks it in.
Don't worry.
Seriously.
I would, I wouldn't trade it.
I'm all joking aside, we tradeit.
That's cool.
For that.
I mean, yeah.

(01:06:42):
I just love beer.
It's been fun.
It's a fun industry and we loveit.
I mean it's, you know, that Ilove, I didn't love it.
It was easy for me.
Yeah.
In the end.
But I didn't love it.
But you know the saying, you dodo what you love.
You never work a day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well that's sort of true.

(01:07:04):
You still have to work.
You still have to work.
Yeah.
To keep loving it.
For sure.
Keep loving.
Yeah.
So, um, if you guys were talkingto somebody.
Um, either or both.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, that's like anentrepreneurial spirit, like
Yeah.
Like you were Angie.
Mm-hmm.
Um, or maybe let's, let's talkto younger versions of yourself,
but not you.

(01:07:24):
Mm-hmm.
You know, imagine those 17 or 20or 24 year olds that are either
itching to be an entrepreneurmm-hmm.
And get into business orreluctant mm-hmm.
To take on that kind of, uh,responsibility maybe, uh, like
what would you say?
And I'll start with you, Angie.
Oh.
I would say, um, know that it'sgonna be hard work, uh, but if

(01:07:48):
know what fulfills you, I guess.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
If, if it's money that fulfillsyou.
You gotta have the, you mightwant to go to Facebook and
Exactly.
Have corporate somewhere orsomething.
You have to be super smart andYeah.
And come up with a rocket shipthat just launches you,
otherwise know what fulfillsyou.
And if it's, you know, creatingsomething and, um, building a, a

(01:08:09):
home for 20 some employees that,yeah.
That, uh, enjoy being around youand you enjoy being around them.
If that, you know, is fulfillingto you, then go for it.
But, you know, if you wannaflash in the pan, then you gotta
be, if you're looking for theeasy way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This isn't it.
No.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Josh, what would you share with,uh, maybe that more, uh, risk

(01:08:33):
averse spouse?
Uh, I mean, have a vision.
Agree on your vision and go forit.
Mm-hmm.
But don't, don't, and stay trueto that vision.
Yeah.
I mean, have that stay in thattunnel.
Of that vision, but be willingto make changes as you need.

(01:08:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, you know, and I, I tellpeople, I've been on lots of
seminars about, you know, withbrewery, uh, wannabe owners, um,
have that vision, but ultimatelyyour customers, your clients are
gonna make you change.
Hmm.
Be willing to change.
Yeah.
For them.
You might have a vision of whatthat's gonna be, and you're
gonna do this and you're gonnado that.

(01:09:14):
Well stay within that framework,inside of that tunnel.
Just widen that tunnel, um, andlet your customers decide where
that tunnel Yeah.
Marketplace is goes Yeah.
Mr.
Market is, uh, don't, and beopen to learning.
Yeah.
Be open to learning and, andtake care of your people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You gotta take care of yourpeople.
I mean, hire good people.
It doesn't always work out.

(01:09:35):
Sometimes you miss Yeah.
Sometimes you swing and you misshard and you wanna call it
anybody by naming that.
Yeah.
No, but, but it happens that,that's.
Yeah.
Everybody goes through that.
It's, it's not unusual, um Yeah.
To take care of the people thatare taking care of you, you
know, hire.
I always tell people, I try tohire people that are smarter
than me.

(01:09:56):
That's not hard to do.
Harder end.
Yeah.
It's way harder for her, easyfor me.
Um, hire people that are smarterthan you and then take care of
them.
Yeah.
And learn from them.
I agree with that.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you saw me grab the fishbowlhere.
Yeah.
Because it's time for the randomquestions and we didn't talk
about it before you guys camein, but mm-hmm.
Um, usually we do like a$25 giftcard giveaway mm-hmm.

(01:10:19):
Or something to a winner.
Mm-hmm.
And that person writes us withthe answer to one of these off
the wall questions.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm gonna say, let's do twoquestions each.
We usually do three questionsfor one person, but Okay.
I don't wanna leave us short.
So, Josh, grab two balls out ofthat kit.
I'll tell you the questionsafter.
And Angie grab two good numbers.

(01:10:44):
And who wants to start?
Three?
Three.
How do you approach work lifebalance or integration or
however you'd put it?
Uh, my approach is that it'svery important and in fact, we
tell, you know, new hires allthe time and, and we practice
what we preach.

(01:11:04):
Their work life balance is veryimportant to us, and there are
more, more important things tous than work.
Um, there's definitely moreimportant things to us than
there is, you know, work andbusiness and money and
relationships are more importantthan that.

(01:11:25):
Fair enough?
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Um, Angie, what number would youlike to start with?
14.
14.
What's the biggest mistakeyou've ever made in your
business?
Oh, God.
That you're aware of.
Um.
I think sometimes because I am aperson who trusts my gut and um,

(01:11:46):
is, makes decisions, um, withouta lot of hesitation.
Yeah.
Uh, sometimes I could have spenta little bit more time.
Yeah.
Um, looking at the details anddoing the homework on it, so.
Okay.
Um, don't be as impulsive as Ican be all the time.
Would you like to add some colorto that, Josh?

(01:12:09):
No.
No?
Okay.
Alright.
That was kind of, but I'm gonnahold off going for honesty here.
Josh, what's your other number?
21.
21.
Oh.
This is a fun one.
What's your death row meal?
Death row meal.
Like you're getting executed atmidnight tonight.
Yeah, 6:00 PM rolls around.

(01:12:30):
You can have as many courses, asmany options, whatever you want,
but it's happening.
Well, yeah.
Seven course meal, at least headto lettuce.
11.
Yeah, head to lettuce.
And a six pack.
Not even a mixed six pack.
We just gotta go straight.
IPA mixed.
Yeah.
I'll just go, eh, mixed pack.

(01:12:51):
Yeah.
Six pack of anything.
Yeah.
So seven course meal.
Uhhuh.
All right.
Head lettuce, six pack, youknow, so it's not too light.
So I can drink that whole sixpack.
And you might want to get a 12pack.
I mean, you got six hours tokill and you're gonna get killed
at the other, I guess, so.
I'm pretty sure six wouldn't beenough for me.
Those are a 13 course mealthere.

(01:13:12):
Yes, we could do that.
Okay, Angie?
Uh, 25.
25.
What's one thing on your bucketlist that you're determined to
accomplish?
Oh.
Well, um, I would like to, um,purchase a property in Italy and
live there.
Oh.

(01:13:32):
At least, uh, semi-retire thereeventually.
So I, I like it.
I'm pretty determined to dragJosh kicking and screaming for a
few months at a time.
Yep.
Maybe in a brewery in Italy.
Yeah, I would in a heartbeat.
And he could fly back and fortheasy on a, in a heartbeat.
A little, uh, working farm wherehe puts around and makes beers
and maybe dabbles in wine and.

(01:13:54):
I, uh, it'll still be taken alittle chicken or something.
Yeah.
Turn the barn into an Airbnbbeer about wine, but I mean, the
driving around in a golf cartsounds awesome.
Yeah.
So why Italy?
Uh, I've heard, you know, youvisiting there, but are you your
family from there or you've beenthere before?
I guess Italian by heritage.
Okay.
Um, my family, uh, there's fiveof us that are, are working on

(01:14:17):
our dual citizenship, so Oh,wow.
I'm hoping to have it, I wait,have a passport.
Yeah.
An Italian passport in the nextyear or so.
Oh wow.
So, um, and then, um, two of mysiblings are relocating
permanently to Italy, so.
Wow.
You know, so it feels like aplace I could And what part of
Italy, if I may?
Um, one of them's in Genoa andthe other one's in Sardinia.
Okay.
So not even in the same space,but Yeah.

(01:14:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Interesting.
Um, my, uh, my wife and I aretaking in our, uh.
I think our 13th Exchangestudent in the fall.
Ah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And it's the little sister of ayoung man we had with us like
three years ago.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and they live in Ravenna?
Oh yeah.
Oh, Uhhuh just south of, uh,it's on like an hour south of,
uh, what's the flooded town upthere?

(01:15:02):
V um, Venice.
Venice.
Venice.
Oh yeah.
They're like an hour south ofVenice.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
Ish.
Yeah.
So, uh, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
We're excited to go visit themsomeday.
Yeah.
But, uh, I feel like the Italianculture is the exact opposite of
my nature, and so I, uh, yearnfor it.
Yeah.
You know, very considered, very,um, easygoing.

(01:15:23):
Not, yeah.
You not rushing around all thetime.
It's interesting, you're, you'relike an Appalachian girl a
little bit almost in WestVirginia.
Mm-hmm.
But you're Italian and therewasn't mm-hmm.
That many Italians to move outthere.
Mm.
And you're.
Very likely Scotch iris, itseems like, uh, which is what
the Appalachians German are?
German Irish.
German, Iris.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Same difference kind of.
Yeah.
Pretty much.
Yeah.
But the, like, your, your, yourarea of origin is filled with

(01:15:48):
people like Josh.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So anyway, I digress.
Yeah.
So anyway, big pictureobservations.
Mm-hmm.
So let's do, um, let's docurrent events.
Okay.
Figure out what do you wanna doabout current events?
Oh, anything new in the worldright now?

(01:16:08):
Today is March 25, 26.
Oh, gosh.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, in ourbusiness, the tariffs are
concerned.
Yeah, I wondered about that.
I mean, yeah.
You know, we're, we're gonna seewhere, which would be, that kind
of goes what?
Not hops, grain cans.
Aluminum.
Aluminum, aluminum.
It can affect all of thosethings.
I mean, there's, there's aconsiderable.

(01:16:31):
Amount of grain that comes fromCanada.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Um, it could affect that, butit's metal.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a lot of metalin our industry.
Aluminum, stainless.
Yep.
Um, a lot coming from overseas.
So we'll see where that is.
You know, I mean, we, I can takethose balls back if you want.
Yeah, sure.

(01:16:51):
Time with the balls on camera,so, yeah.
I mean, we, you know, there's,there's just, there's just
metal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In industry, well, in anystainless of steel if you want
to add onto your brew system orwhatever, that's all mostly
outsourced now.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So just kind of seeing wherethat is and, you know, a lot of
small breweries don't havebuying power.

(01:17:12):
It's not like we can stock upfor a year.
Right, right.
Um, I know I've heard some largebreweries that are buying right
now to stock up for at least sixmonths.
Interesting.
Going just at least cans andother stuff.
Yeah.
Um, and, and, you know.
For us, and we talk about a lotin our, our industry, like when
do we price people out of beer?

(01:17:33):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
How high can a pint be?
I feel like we're real close.
I mean, how much It feels likeit's getting closer, you know?
Mm-hmm.
You gotta pay 10,$12 for a pintof pilsner.
Yeah.
Probably not.
Yeah.
You know, price people out.
And we're, we're right now atthat edge of if things get more
expensive, much more expensive,then we will be at that.

(01:17:56):
Point where people are gonna go,$10 is too much for Yeah.
A pilsner.
Yeah.
So that's, and that could affectit, you know, the, the, the and
stuff.
So in people's minds, at least,it's supposed to be a more
affordable option than a glassof wine.
Yes.
Correct.
And if that changes, then it'stough.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because then you figure out, youknow, you can figure out the
price of an ounce of, of mm-hmm.
For sure.
Per, for bourbon, per alcohol,whatever.

(01:18:17):
Beer.
Beer or whatever alcohol thatis.
And then you start going, yeah,I'm paying a lot per ounce.
Can I afford to do this?
Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause groceries are up andeverything else is up.
Mm-hmm.
And so, you know, it's, uh, it,it's just kind of a wait and see
for us as a small brewery.
Fair enough.
Were you guys, I guess you werenot far from Detroit, so that
was probably a normal thing whenyou first met there, Ohio and

(01:18:39):
actually no.
No.
They don't do that there.
No.
Mm-hmm.
No, I, in fact, I feel like Inever had heard of it before
until, um, the last maybe threeor four years.
Okay.
So yeah.
But it just seems kind of blow.
You were traveling, saw, you'relike, huh, this is an easy way
to make pizza.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly with theequipment mm-hmm.
It's, it's both delicious andyou get to use those little

(01:18:59):
quarter pans or whatever and itjust like goes through the
machine and it's just easy.
And the kitchen that came withour space is not huge, so it
really dictated what we could dowith it.
Yeah.
No fryer, right?
No fryer makes a difference.
I think, uh, it's time to gointo our closing segment, the
Loco experience.
Ah, uh, and that's the craziestexperience of your life, either

(01:19:21):
individual or together.

(01:20:06):
Uh, I don't know if you wanna doa, do you have a shared crazy
experience or would you like todo individual?
We could have a contest of who'sgot the crazier, craziest
experience.
It's not opening a new business.
It might be your craziestexperience.
Um, I dunno, say something alittle more momentary or short
term travel.
I feel like our lives arepretty.
Calm.

(01:20:26):
Yeah.
But, um, I don't know.
We had a rental property that,um, a unfortunately a drunk
person ran through our backfence.
Okay.
Into our kitchen.
Kitchen and lodge their car intoour kitchen.
That was a crazy experience.
I think they came through yourback fence across your backyard
and lodge the car into thekitchen in the middle of winter.

(01:20:47):
Our renters had to call us inthe middle of the night.
Oh, dang.
And say, Hey, um, there's a carin the kitchen.
That was a crazy, pretty crazyexperience.
What about the, what, what wasthe one in Portugal?
The where we.
Did the sleds where the guysdrove you down on the street
sleds?
We did through Tobogganstraffic.
Toboggans in Madeira.
Okay.
Madeira.

(01:21:08):
That's right.
Made Island.
And you, you hop on and you havea, a guy that hops on with you.
So it's Josh and I in the, inthe toboggan.
And him, he's behind and he's onthe street.
Us on the street.
This is on snow or anythinglike, or ice or anything.
And he's going stone, steephills.
Yes.
Really shooting downhill at likethis Tobo is like steel on on
concrete.

(01:21:28):
Yes.
And they have these shoes thatthey wear out rather.
Oh no shit.
And they just put their feetdown.
Yeah.
And they steer you throughtraffic and around corners.
Blind.
Corners down.
But there's no way to reallystop you to speak of No, there's
no, no.
With their feet put feet down.
Yeah.
Right.
It will eventually stop, butyou're not stopping quickly,
right?
Yeah.
Oh, Uhuh interesting.
And that was, I mean, you'reprobably doing what, 50 miles an

(01:21:51):
hour?
Oh yeah.
Well it, it seemed like it, I'msure 1000 miles per hour.
I mean, I did, it's probablymore like 15, but confront my
mortality a little tiny foot.
Angie doesn't feel like a, aclosest thing to a near death
experience, almost.
Probably.
I can't think of anything elsethat was that, like, was fun.

(01:22:11):
I'm gonna die.
It was fun, but it was fun.
I loved it.
If, uh, if we could take, um,kind of the, I don't know, maybe
I'm just old and I don't getinvolved anymore, but it feels
like the.
You know, the brew fests andmm-hmm.
All that kind of stuff was sucha big deal culturally.
Yeah.
10 years ago.
Mm-hmm.
And it just isn't so muchanymore.

(01:22:32):
It isn't as much anymore.
You know, when you talked aboutcurrent events, I was thinking
about how, uh, drinkingculture's changed Yeah.
And how our Gen Zs don't drinkas much and Yeah.
Um, and you know, so that hashad ramifications.
Some of that, you know, crazybeer loving people that used to
come out for anything.

(01:22:52):
We've lost that a little bit.
And I feel like also as aindustry, we got a little tired,
you know, like always making anew beer and a new style, and
always doing these festivals.
Here's, here's another festival,here's another festival, here's
another festival.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think, so Covid was alittle bit of a reset.
Yeah.
And everybody was like, oh, thisis hard sometimes.
Right.
And we're tired a little bit.

(01:23:13):
And the, it's not clear how muchbenefit we get from Exactly.
Slinging beers all weekend long,you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's s the glamor hassometimes is.
Flos it shine, giving the beeraway and yeah.
All that.
And so, but I think, um, youknow, we talk about this a lot.
Um.
Col, uh, Fort Collins inparticular was just this amazing

(01:23:34):
beer place.
It was a Mecca sort.
Yeah.
Yes.
And so the Napa of beer.
Yeah.
And so now, you know, it, it's alittle bit our, our
responsibility as these, um,smaller breweries to rebuild a
little bit of that enthusiasm.
Yeah.
And so, you know, Josh is on a,on a panel that's working
towards committee, a committeecommittee working towards
building a, um, Fort CollinsBeer Week.

(01:23:56):
Um, oh good.
And that is, that's lost.
Yeah.
And there's another committeethat's, that's off of this group
of breweries in Fort Collinsworking on a festival.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Okay.
A unique festival.
We used to have, there used tobe a festival here in, in Fort
Collins that we were includedbecause I think strictly in
Loveland we were includedbecause they needed more
breweries.
There weren't enough back then.
Well, you're part of the, tomake it profitable.

(01:24:18):
And what was that called?
Was the Brewers Jam Brewery.
Yeah.
And it was a festival run bybreweries.
By breweries.
And it was a unique festival.
Oh yeah.
Actually my food trailer wasthere.
Yes.
And I have a, remember that Ihave a Brewer's jamboree glass
from verboten in my cupboard athome still.
Yeah.
Food was an important part ofthat.
Yep.
Um, beer festival.
But yeah, so we're, we'reworking with other, um, brewery

(01:24:39):
owners to like figure out BeerCollins and, uh, odell and New
Belgium to figure out Right.
You know, how to kind of bringsome of that enthusiasm back.
Yeah.
Get people, you know, good.
And the collaborative nature ofit.
Yeah.
And, and let's get together andhave fun and let's, you know,
embrace the culture again.
And reinvigorate it.
Mm-hmm.
In a time that it needs Yeah.

(01:25:00):
Needs a little, needs a little,yeah.
Uplifting.
I would agree.
I would agree.
Mm-hmm.
Well, um, maybe blessed in thatpursuit.
Mm-hmm.
You know, of bringing morecommunity together.
That's always a a mm-hmm.
Intentional thing.
Do you have any questions forme?
Oh goodness.
After this, uh, little sessionhere, how did we do?
I think I did pretty good.
But is your last meal, youseemed like you had a fun time.

(01:25:21):
Death meal.
Oh, my death meal.
Oh, yeah.
Hmm.
I don't ask the questions or Ijust ask the questions around
here.
No, honestly, it would probablybe like a, uh, nice hearty
ribeye.
Mm-hmm.
Um, with a green salad with abunch of mm-hmm.
Good vegetables on it, you know,heavy on the avocado and the

(01:25:41):
fresh garden tomatoes.
Oh yeah.
And uh, and I guess since I'mnot as worried about getting fat
anymore, I'd probably have areal nice fresh dinner roll, you
know, fresh sourdough loaf.
Yeah.
But I, I'm, mm-hmm.
I'm pretty simple taste, youknow?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gimme a chunk of cow and a chunkof salad and a little bit of
bread.
Sounds perfect.
I like that too.
Yeah, that sounds maybe myactual death meal and maybe,

(01:26:06):
maybe like, uh, eight ounces ofcaviar that I wouldn't even
enjoy or care about just to fuckthe system a little bit.
Yep.
Uh, sorry.
No, I get that screw, man.
You're putting your death.
We got to do, make you paycaviar tasting for the first
Really?
At a restaurant show was at arestaurant.
At a restaurant.
It was a Colorado restaurantshow and I liked it.

(01:26:27):
And he did not.
No, no, it's not.
I've tried it a couple littletimes, you know, I'm sure it
wasn't the best stuff'cause I'ma pretty poor guy, but Yeah.
I'm like, I just don't needlittle slippery things in my
mind.
Yeah.
Like, I don't know.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It was fun.
Wasn't my jam.
Well, thanks for being here.
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
Appreciate and uh, we'll see younext time and I'll see you down
at the brewery here and there.

(01:26:48):
Although, uh, Susan, Kurt willtake me care of.
Oh yeah.
Otherwise, oh, they will.
All right.
Cheers you guys.

All Episodes

EXPERIENCE 216 | Teamwork Makes the Dream Work - if the Beer Tastes Great! Josh & Angie Grenz, Owners of Verboten Brewing and Barrel Project in Loveland, and Verboten North Brewpub in Fort Collins.

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