EXPERIENCE 223 | Building a Social Enterprise with Joe & Melissa Basta of Tellus Outdoor Gear - The LoCo Experience

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
In this episode of the LocalExperience Podcast, I sat down
with Joe and Melissa Basta,co-founders of Telus, an outdoor
apparel brand and socialenterprise based in Fort
Collins.
They share their founding story,focusing on their commitment to
sustainability using recycled ororganic materials, and donating
100% of their net profits toenvironmental initiatives.

(00:21):
Melissa explains her role inoverseeing marketing and the
company's give back programs.
While Joe discusses hisbackground in Outward Bound and
Peace Corps, which influencedtheir company's mission and
values, they discussed thechallenges and successes of
launching their flagship storein Fort Collins.
Telus was seated with funds fromthe sale of a previous business
Rodell, which Joe developed intoa vertically integrated vanilla

(00:43):
extract business, connectinghundreds of farmers in
Madagascar with millions ofshoppers at Costco and Trader
Joe's.
The conversation also delvesinto their personal lives,
including their mutual earlylife crises that led them to
meet in the Peace Corps, theirfamily dynamics and children,
and how they balance theirpersonal and professional lives.
Joe and Melissa emphasized theimportance of experiences,

(01:05):
travel and flexibility for youngpeople figuring out their career
and life journey.
And the episode wraps up with athoughtful discussion of the
future of their business andtheir commitment to making a
positive impact on the planet.
They've got great gear, awonderful mission and strong
conversation skills, and I knowyou'll enjoy getting to know my
latest guests, Joe and MelissaBasta.

(02:02):
Welcome back to the LocoExperience Podcast.
My guest today are Joe andMelissa Busta.
Sounds like our rhymes likerhymes with pasta.
Mm-hmm.
And they are the co-founders andchief volunteers at Telus.
And so fun to say it this way.
But, uh, Melissa, why don't youtell us what TELUS is all about?
Well, Telus um, is an outdoorapparel brand local here to Fort

(02:25):
Collins.
We started, um, probably aboutthree and a half years ago.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and we opened, officiallyopened, uh, our flagship store,
big flagship store right here inFort Collins in December of
2023.
Okay.
And tell us, uh, is outdoor gearof all sorts, is that right?
Like.
Uh, rain gear, backpacks.

(02:48):
Mm-hmm.
Like all of it.
Um, when you think of whatpeople like to do, uh, who live
here in Fort Collins, I wouldthink of, you know, anything you
do outside biking, hiking, youknow, paddle boarding.
Um, yeah.
We have everything from, youknow, outdoor pants that you
would hike in, uh, to shortsthat you would hike in, um, to
performance wear for runningand, um, just working out.

(03:10):
Isn't that, or walking your dog.
Isn't that a crowded space?
Like isn't there too many brandsin that space already?
It is a crowded space.
Um, uh, but we're doing things alittle bit differently.
Um, a couple things that set usapart are we made the choice to
make all of our products, uh,using recycled or organic
materials, and we're a socialenterprise in that we give back

(03:32):
100% of our net profits toenvironmental initiatives.
Interesting.
Are you allowed to retain netprofits to grow your inventory
and grow?
We are.
Yes.
Okay.
I mean, we cover overhead andthen reinvest.
Okay.
Fair enough.
But if, if the owners aren'tgonna take any money out of this
is what I'm hearing.
Yes, that is true.
That's so awesome.
And, uh, how long did this sitin the cooker for?

(03:55):
Like was this an idea for yearsor did it like, after I knew you
had a business journey beforeJoe and you had a prior career.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
I would say it, it stewed for awhile.
And this is actually probably abetter question for Joe to
answer because it, it goes allthe way back to his days, um,
probably stemming from your daysin Outward Bound and then coming

(04:15):
outta Peace Corps and.
Let's do it and where you're at.
Sure.
So, um, right outta college, Iwas a, actually, um, I worked
for Colorado Outward Bound.
Okay.
Did that for, uh, two seasons.
I was, uh, an instructor for outoutdoor leadership program.
Okay.
Uh, really, uh, gave me the bugfor all things outdoors,
especially in Cal, Colorado.
I was stationed in Silverton,Colorado.

(04:37):
Uh, worked with, uh,disadvantaged use, um, 21 day
programs out there.
Okay.
So we're actually, uh, out inthe wilderness for 21 days.
Were you trained to do this?
Were you like a counselor orsomething?
Uh, upward Bound does traintrain you I see.
As an instructor.
Okay.
So you, you do it an intensivetraining for a few months prior
to the program starting.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
So, uh, and I actually, I was astudent of Upward Bound when I

(04:57):
was 16, which it did a lot forme as well.
Oh yeah.
And, uh, so I got the bug earlyon in my life.
So I was always in, in themountains, playing in the
mountains, hiking the mountains,camping in the mountains, uh,
for many, many years.
And I was always a gearhead.
And, uh, anytime my body, youknow,$200 plus jacket, I was
always evaluating it, wonderingwhy this pocket was here,

(05:20):
wondering why there wasn't apocket there.
Mm-hmm.
Durability, longevity.
It was, you know, actuallyrainproof or.
You know, rain res resistance.
Yeah.
So, uh, when I sold my previousbusiness, uh, which was here in
town in 2019, um, in 2020,obviously COVID hits.
And that was really the timethat Melissa and I started

(05:40):
talking about can we build atrue social enterprise within
this space?
Which as you mentioned, is avery crowded space.
But where we reallydifferentiate ourselves is the a
hundred percent give back, giveback.
After all, you know, all of ouremployees are play paid, our
utilities are paid, uh,overhead, uh, reinvesting in the
company.
So, uh, so far so good.

(06:01):
Uh, we've been able to, to givethese past, past two years now
to the Nature Conservancy, whichis our main giving partner.
Okay.
Um, it's actually through the,uh, Boulder chapter and in, in
the giving you get to choose,uh, point of sale.
Uh, what's dear to your heart?
Uh, it's reforestation herewithin Colorado Conservation US
wide, which is called, uh,America the Beautiful, as well

(06:22):
as, uh, coral Reef Protection,which is an international
program with them.
Yeah.
That's coral's such afascinating element of the
world.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, have you heard this?
That if they have the same kindof coral from the same part of
the world, but you take onepiece and put it under a bucket,
under a sink in the uk, it'llstill blossom at the same time.

(06:46):
Interesting that coral wood inthat original destination or in
Brazil did not know that.
Yeah.
They're all like somehow, liketelepathically con itself?
No, they're like, I dunno.
They're connected somehow.
Interesting.
Even without access to tides orwater or Wow.
Sun or moon, they somehowreproduce the same species on
the same day they bloomtogether.

(07:08):
It's interesting.
I mean, we, we follow a fairamount of groups, um, in coral
Reef work through our, um,social media and watching the
ones that have the coral reefgardens is really interesting in
how they, I mean, they'reliterally underwater gardens.
Yeah.
And I was just watchingactually, a.
Meat Eater podcast, our meateater video the other night.

(07:29):
Mm-hmm.
On all the fish that are aroundall the oil rigs off of Texas
and Louisiana.
Mm-hmm.
Especially in particularly, theystarted decommissioning them and
tipping'em over and stuff, butthen other boats would hit'em
sometimes and different things.
And so they would generally justleave'em stand now and they're
like, there's coral growing allover.
Yeah.
Essentially becoming a reefitself.
Yeah.
It's becoming a reef rightthere.
So interest.
Anyway, I digress.

(07:49):
Interesting.
Mm-hmm.
So a, a sustainable cause.
So over time you want it to growand grow presumably.
Right.
Offer more products, employ morepeople, um.
Correct.
And give more dollars.
The, the more we we grow, themore we can give Yeah.
To these causes.
And so only being a year and ahalf into it, we're, we're

(08:09):
still, you know, in startupmode.
Sure.
You know, here in Fort Collinswith our flagship store being
here, as Melissa said, off ofLyndon Street, downtown Fort
Collins, and then online sales.
So we, uh, we are a littledifferent.
We're direct to consumer, so wedo not sell wholesale Okay.
To any wholesalers.
Like, can't get it on Amazon oranything.
You can't get it to Amazon orREI Nice.
Locally here at Jack's.

(08:31):
Uh, and the reason why we'redoing that mainly is first off,
we, we do have lower volumes.
Yep.
We have very high quality goodsas far as, um, we stand behind
them.
I, I think we, we, we produceroughly 36 pieces, um, mostly
clothing.
Um, some accessories like duffelbags, backpacks, um, and as
Melissa said, all made out arecycle and organic material,

(08:52):
but, uh, really direct toconsumer gives us, you know,
more profit, you know, to usthat we can give, you know, to
the causes.
Yeah.
Fair enough.
Is there any other companiesdoing that?
Uh, most of our competitors, themajority of the, our larger
competitors, obviously you gotPatagonia, you have Nor Face,
you have Coda Epoxy, themajority of those companies,
it's 1% back to the planet.

(09:12):
We're right, right.
We're a hundred percent back tothe planet.
In other categories, are therecompanies, did you study other
completely give back kind oforganizations?
Good question.
Good question.
I, I was in the, uh, foodproduct, uh, business prior to
this business, uh, for 20 years.
And we specialized in bakingingredients and really, uh, I
was.
Always fascinated with Newman'sown, which was okay, your, your

(09:35):
first really upscale foodproducts.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, and so here, here, here,you, you have a guy like Paul
Newman, successful Academy Awardwinner.
He race cars.
Right.
Right.
He accomplished everything hewanted.
And so later in his career, heactually started Newman's own,
you know, food products.
I, I believe starting with saladdressing and now I believe, I
believe there's probably about40, 50 different products.

(09:55):
Yeah.
So that's a hundred, a hundredpercent of those profits go to
charitable causes.
Okay.
And so I was always fascinatedwith that concept and that
model.
Yeah.
Which gave us the idea that waskind, inspirational product, you
know, towards this in industry,the outdoor apparel industry.
Yeah.
How does shipping work andstuff, if you're, uh, you gotta
become experts at.

(10:16):
Shipping then too, right?
If you're direct cons toconsumer, you're using FedEx or
Correct.
Whatever.
It's, it's, that's one of theeasiest parts is, you know, we
get an order in and we ship itthrough UUPS, United States
Postal Service or FedEx.
Yeah.
You know, when an order comes inand it just, whatever size box,
whatever price is, you probablyhave the system even checks it
out.
You order a large jacket and at-shirt and a mug.

(10:39):
We, we back it up and actuallyre recycled recycled bags from
post consumer recycle bags and,uh, then we deliver it to your
doorstep.
I dig it.
Mm-hmm.
What's your like timeline youlike, are you trying to spin
this thing up and then be ableto, I mean, you're not very old.
But, you know, running a startupis hard and like, how, what do

(11:03):
you, what do you wanna achievehere?
Sure, sure.
Um, the first, uh, really threeto five years we wanted to focus
here locally on spreading theword here in northern Colorado.
Yeah.
Um, you know, over this area hasgrown to about 185,000 in
population.
Yeah.
I think we just touch thesurface of getting our message
and, and, and the word out of,you know, and we're, we're
actually in the River district,which is not in downtown, um,

(11:26):
Fort Collins.
It's not on the square.
It's not, yeah.
It's kind of on the edge.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It's on the edge.
On the edge.
It's a growing upcoming area.
Yep.
So we're a bit of a destination,you know, word of mouth on a
referral basis.
So really we want to focusstrictly on the flagship store.
I believe, you know, with FortCollins being such a vibrant
economy with Colorado StateUniversity being here, and a lot

(11:47):
of parents come in, studentscome in, they go back to, to
their homes in different partsof the country.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
And what we're finding out, youknow, uh, with that is the word
is spreading to these differentlocations.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, we have, you know, parentsthat stop by the store.
Mm-hmm.
They, they buy a piece or twoand, um, I would say probably
about 50% of our online ordersare coming from reorders mm-hmm.

(12:09):
For people who've actuallyvisited a store.
That's cool.
Fort Collins.
Mm-hmm.
And with Fort Collins being a,a, a tourist destination as
well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's really helping,helping us tremendously.
Well, and like good job makingyour brand highly visible, but
not obnoxious on every item youhave.
Like, you can't miss it, butit's not like we like to call it
simple elegance.

(12:30):
Yeah.
That's cool.
Yeah, I think that's great.
Um, and so really this kind ofmarket, I just, a couple weeks
ago I had a Russian economist onand he talked about the, the
importance of kind of organicgrowth brands that get so kind
of much love and attention andstrong and popular within their.

(12:51):
Region.
They don't need to be spun up bya bunch of private equity or
have a bunch of investors, butthey get, they catch on and then
they're able to kind of escapethe gravity of that region.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And we're very fortunate to be,you're looking at the two
primary investors, so, right.
You know, in previous companiesI worked with private equity, e
equity, I worked with banks.

(13:12):
Um, and really we wanted tostart this off small where we
don't have that pressure fromoutside groups.
Uh, really trying to ramp you upto, you know, how do you, how
fast can you get to your firstmillion?
How fast can you get to your,you know, your$5 million in
sales?
So, so you really hit the nailon the head as far as growing
organically.
Mm-hmm.
There's really no pressure onour end to, to ramp this up, you

(13:35):
know, uh, going from zero to 60in 3.2 seconds.
Yeah.
We really do want to take ourtime and do, yeah.
It could be a slow money playregardless.
Correct.
Melissa, how do you guys dividewhat you do?
What are, what are each of youbest at in this vision, in this
journey?
You know, that's a goodquestion.
Um, you know, one of our bigcompany, um, slogans is
Adventure with Purpose.
And I feel like, you know, ourbackgrounds what we each bring

(13:58):
to the table.
Um, you know, Joe being, youknow, the big outdoor person and
you know.
Being in the gearhead, whatever,all that.
Yeah, the gearhead and all that.
Um, and my background's reallyin public relations and public
affairs and over the years I'veworked on lots of issues.
So for me, the part of thebusiness that I work most on is
kind of our outward facing, um,working with the marketing team,

(14:19):
but then also on the give back.
Um, and so I spent a lot of timekind of researching the
organizations, um, and weeventually landed on the Nature
Conservancy.
So I would say I do a lot ofthat piece.
Um, Joe focuses a lot on theoperations, um, with his
background from his previousbusiness as well.
I think.
So we compliment each other thatway.
Um.

(14:40):
Do you have anything to add tothat?
No, I, well, we, we definitelyhave two different complete
skill sets.
Yeah.
With, with me Melissa'sbackground in public relations,
uh, her previous employment wellwith National Geographic, which
she is very humble.
She doesn't like to bring thatup.
Talk more about that.
So, uh, yeah.
And then supply chain too.
I, I have a, mm-hmm.

(15:01):
Pretty, pretty substantialbackground in supply chain.
And our goods are made inVietnam.
Uh, we chose Vietnam'causethey're known for higher, higher
quality goods.
Okay.
So a hundred percent of ourproducts are made, um, in
Vietnam.
Uh, obviously we designed'emhere locally.
Uh, we worked with a localdesigner as well as Collaborated
Lake in Colorado StateUniversity, who has a great
fashion and design school here.

(15:21):
Okay.
Yeah, that was my next question,school.
So, yeah, talk to me more aboutthe design.
Like how many designs did youlaunch with?
Where did you.
Come up with them.
How much were you involved?
Oh, very involved.
Very involved.
Uh, I, I really, uh, play by if,if, if I'm not going to wear it,
I'm, we're not going to producethis personally.
And I think Melissa can say thesame.

(15:43):
It's, it's, it's a prettyintense, uh, tedious process.
Yeah.
You, you start with obviouslythe design.
Um, and then once you get thatdesign down, obviously textiles
and fabrics is a, a big, verybig part of that.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Um, being fairly limited.
Getting back to recycled organicmaterials.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, we've come a long way.
There's some Great, and can youlike, look through catalogs
looking for these recycledorganic materials?

(16:06):
Or how do you, you work, youwork directly with the textiles?
Okay.
So, um, the vast majority of ourtextiles and our fabrics come
from Taiwan.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we do have a, for our duffelbags, we do use a, uh, US
textile here.
Um, okay.
Which is a, a great productthat's, it's a hundred percent
waterproof, a hundred percentrecycled, and that goes in our
duffel bags and our backpacks.
Uh, so once you, once you kindof nail that down, you go

(16:28):
through different variations ofprototypes, uh, we probably
averaged four prototypes perpiece.
Okay.
Where you're, you're, you'rechanging dimensions, your
changing in styles.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Collar size all the way to yourcuffs.
Yeah.
You know, um, so there's asubstantial capital investment
to launch something like this,but there is the intellectual
mm-hmm.
Investment is probably even moresubstantial in a way.

(16:50):
So prior to opening up thisstore current, we spent roughly
about two years really on deepdive on RD Yeah.
Behind all those.
So we spent, uh, close to two,two and a half years, um,
developing the products.
And then we launched the storein, um, December, 2023.
Okay.
Talk to me about.
Uh, I guess not aspirationalbrands, because I think you're

(17:13):
trying to be the best brand inyour space.
True.
But what were you wearingbefore, I guess is probably the
right way to answer that or askthat question.
Great, great question.
Great question.
Good way to bring up thecompetition.
Uh, you know, uh, really for,uh, for me personally, I, I
think Patagonia does, does afantastic job.
Um, you know, they got a 50year, both Patagonia nor Face
has a roughly a 50 yearheadstart on this.

(17:34):
Yep.
Uh, Patagonian, in our opinion,they're doing a lot of the
right.
Things.
Um, they have many, manyproducts, you know, we're just a
fraction of their products.
Uh, they're very transparent,uh, which we, we stand by that
as well.
We, we want to be a hundredpercent transparent.
Uh, but we wanted to come out ofthe gates with a hundred percent
of our products made out ofeither recycled organic

(17:54):
materials.
Yeah, I believe, uh.
Patagonia, this is, and don'tquote me on this, but I believe
they touted about a year and ahalf ago that about 70% of their
products are Okay.
Are made outta recycling theorganic materials.
Yeah.
I think it might be a little bithigher now, but, uh, they're,
they're probably in the realm of300 different products where
Right, right.
You know, compared to 36.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's quite different.

(18:14):
And then we just started phasetwo.
Um, I, we call that phase onewith those initial products.
We, we were just wrapping upphase two right now.
Okay.
So you've been back in thedesign room?
We're back in the design andyeah, we're back in the design
phase of things, uh, which isexciting.
Um, these are gonna be morelifestyle pieces, um, which
we're very excited about, butyou're always thinking a year
ahead.

(18:35):
So everything that we're doingnow is going to land roughly a
year from now, roughly 12months.
So, um, just, just to pull aproduct out of a place like
Vietnam, once you place thatorder, it's takes about six to
eight months to bring back intothe country.
Mm-hmm.
Now, I think, wasn't Vietnam oneof the first, uh, countries to
be like, we wanna make a deal,uh, on the tariff thing?

(18:55):
Is that my memory?
Yeah.
Our heads have been definitelyspinning.
I'm sure you've been noticingthere's some talk about tariffs
and stuff with, uh, all, allthis commotion, uh, and, and
this dialogue about tariffs thelast two months, uh, it's, it's
put a lot of mid-size and smallcompanies a bit of in Abin.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, you know, since we're kindof newbies in the industry,
we're not, well, no bargainingpower throughout and we're,

(19:19):
we're working with very, verysmall minimums.
So, uh, we're hoping for someclarity here, um, soon.
Yeah.
We're hoping to stay with, uh,a, a number of our manufacturers
who.
We traveled, uh, several timesto Vietnam to hand select these
manufacturers who we feelthey're doing all the right
things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we, we, we hope we cancontinue those relationships,

(19:39):
but, uh, once again, uh, if wedo need to pivot to other
countries, um, that's what we'regonna be forced to do.
Mm-hmm.
But as it stands now, we justcan't stomach the, uh, tariff
difference.
It's about two and a half timesthan what we were paying
previously in a company oursize, especially with a hundred
percent give back, it, it justwouldn't make any sense.
Mm-hmm.
Um, that$250 jacket's gonna endup being a$400.

(20:02):
Right, right, right.
Just makes it impossible.
Right.
So, um, let's, uh.
I think we'll come back to tellus a little bit Sure.
And, and some of the productsand design.
But I wanna hear a little bitmore about the business journey
leading up to, um, and Joedropped a, that you, you were
with National Geographic for atime, is that mm-hmm.

(20:23):
Yeah, it was, it was a short atime I, coming out of Peace
Corps.
Um, I ended up working for thechannel, um, in their
communications departmentworking on public relations to
launch the channel in marketsoutside the United States.
Oh, wow.
So the channel was fairly new.
Yep.
Um, and so my work was, youknow, really working on getting
the channel up and running, butthen also, um, promoting some of

(20:46):
the, you know, our, our filmingthe films that we make.
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
Um, it's an incredible place towork, a place where, you know,
turnover's very low, but youlearn a lot from a place like
that.
Just, you know, the behind thescenes that goes.
Into making those documentariesand just all the good work they
do, you know?
Sure.
Um, there's the nonprofit sideof National Geographic, and then
there's the for-profit side,which is, you know, kind of

(21:07):
their, the magazines, thechannels.
Okay.
That are income generators.
And then you have the Societywhich funds all the research.
Oh, is that, and the explorersand mm-hmm.
So it's almost like the RotaryFoundation or something like
that, where there's this bucketthat's been set aside through
the membership and the profitsgenerated by films and
documentaries and whatever.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't, so it was, you know, Igot to work on another example

(21:29):
of kind of that the public,private, yeah.
Social enterprise.
Mm-hmm.
Interesting.
Mm-hmm.
So, um.
And then your career from therewent into more PR especially
kind of thing?
Well, so coming out of college,I worked for a public affairs
firm in Chicago.
Okay.
Uh, and that, you know, was anagency where I worked with, you
know, several different clientsand, you know, over the years

(21:52):
there you kind of learn aboutwhat you like working on and
what you don't.
And the projects that Igravitated towards were the ones
that seemed to give back more tothe community.
Um, you know, I can think of onespecifically, it was a project
called Art Smart.
It was run by Marshall Fields atthe time, and it was trying to
bring, you know, art educationback into the, you know, to
inner city youth.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, and so I, those were thekinds of projects I gravitated

(22:14):
toward.
And then there were some that,you know, weren't as fun, um,
yeah.
Or weren't as meaningful.
Uh, and then, um, I think Joe,you were in the same boat.
We both kind of had this earlylife crisis, um, where, you
know, I was maybe four yearsinto to that job and decided I
needed to make a change, um, andwanted to get more.
Involved in work like that.

(22:35):
Um, and so that's what led me tobecome a Peace Corps volunteer
and Oh, you did it later?
Mm-hmm.
We did it later.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
I, I, it was something I noodledon being from Central North
Dakota mm-hmm.
In a real small town.
Like, I didn't even know anybodythat I'd ever been to Peace
Corps.
Mm-hmm.
But I'd learned about it andkind of looked into it, but I
would've done it like rightafter college.

(22:56):
College.
Right.
Which is what most people do.
Yeah.
Um, so I looked at a lot ofdifferent things.
I was kind of, like I said, Iwas having the early life crisis
and evaluating do I go back toschool?
Yeah.
Do I need to change, you know,my job?
Um, am I, do I just need anoutward bound moment?
Right.
And, you know, peace Corps wasone of the options on the table

(23:16):
when I looked at everything.
It, it kind of put together, youknow, I wanted to be at the
grassroots level.
I wanted to be more connected tocommunity project work.
I wanted to be overseassomewhere.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and I also, you know.
Wanted to be supported in somecapacity.
And so being Peace Corpsvolunteer, you know, they do
provide you support, theyprovide you with insurance.
If something happens, you know,they're there to evacuate you.

(23:39):
Um, and so I, I just.
I jumped off the edge.
Interesting.
Mm-hmm.
And what did that look like foryou?
Like, like do, do they, do theypay you actually, like, do you
come home from Peace Corps withmore money than you left with
and they provide you housing andstuff?
Or is it pretty much like a Itis, you get, while you're
serving, you have a monthlystipend and it's kind of based

(24:01):
off of the country that you livein, you know, and and how much,
how much you need to eat.
Right.
And it's basically for, for,it's about that much food and
housing.
Right?
Food and housing.
Okay.
Uh, it's not very much money.
I think mine was maybe.
Um, you know, right around$300 amonth.
Okay.
Uh, so very small.
And then after you complete yourservice, they give you, I can't
remember how much it was, butmaybe it was like$2,500 when you

(24:23):
come out to kind of, okay.
Pay deposit on the nextapartment.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe make a change in yourinsurance plan because they're
not gonna cover anymore.
Put a down payment on a car.
Mm-hmm.
Interesting.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
So it is largely a, a give backkind of a notion right from the
start.
Mm-hmm.
Strictly volunteer.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Covered just enough.
Mm-hmm.
And, and where were you?
Peace Corps.
So I was in Haiti.

(24:43):
Okay.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I was down there from, incme, 96 to 2000.
Okay.
Okay.
So it was unfortunately,probably better then than it is
now.
Oh.
Mm-hmm.
It was probably the, the.
Most stable period in thehistory of the country, recent
history of the country.
And, you know, I was veryfortunate to be there at that
time and see it when it was likethat.

(25:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Interesting.
And was your Peace Corps touralso in Haiti?
Dominican.
Dominican Republic.
Oh, okay.
So it's connected to Haiti.
Um, Melissa definitely had the,uh, tougher side side of the
island.
Sure.
For, for sure.
So I, I was a Peace Corpsvolunteer from the 2000, or I'm
sorry, um, 19, was it 97 to2000?

(25:24):
So I was roughly, um, six monthsbehind.
Gotcha.
Roughly a year behind.
And that's where we met.
And how, because like they woulddo some trainings for all the
Peace Corps people from time totime, or like you were on the
beach, on the Haiti side and yousaw her Oh, that's, or that's,
that's right.
Um, actually, I, I went toschool, uh, one of my best
friends from, from undergradwent, went, had a study abroad
program with Melissa.

(25:45):
Okay.
It was a summer program in, inLondon, I believe.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh.
He, and when I mentioned I wasgoing to the Peace Corps in the
Demic Republic, he mentionedMelissa's name.
Okay.
And, uh, this is right when, youknow, internet was coming out in
the late nineties, so we wouldwrite from time to time we were
actually hit by a majorhurricane.
Uh, right when we got downthere, we were trading notes and

(26:06):
we both got Dengue fever at thesame time.
Mm-hmm.
Survived that obviously.
Uh, and then roughly it wasabout two weeks before you left
the country.
Mm-hmm.
You'd never been to theDominican Republic side.
And she reached out to mesaying, Hey, are you gonna be
around?
And I was, was gonna be in thecapitol at this given weekend.
And, uh, it was Super Bowlweekend, which is when all the,

(26:27):
all, all, all the, all the male,of course the male volunteers.
Yeah.
All the male volunteers would,would find, you know, the, the,
the one TV screen, the one barthat Super Bowl's playing in.
And I said, Hey, I am gonna bearound, but if you wanna join
15, 15 US for a Super Bowl, byall means join us.
And the the rest is kind ofhistory.
Really.
Yeah.
Was it just like there wasn'tany other, uh, ladies or fellas

(26:49):
around for either of you afterthat?
Um, it's just that, you know,the funniest thing is Kurt, is
we, we were both living inChicago in the same time in the
nineties.
Hmm.
We, and we had no idea.
We, we interviewed at the samePeace Corps, peace Corps office
in Chicago, roughly six monthsapart.
And when we started talking, uh,we realized that we lived
roughly four, four blocks awayfrom each other.

(27:11):
And fascinating.
We, we shared the sa same el elstop, the same train stop.
You know, we, we probably saweach other, you know, from time
to time and didn't know it.
I used to, you know, run in themornings.
I would run right in front ofher, you know, apartment, you
know, which with not knowingthat she was there, of course,
obviously.
Of course.
Yeah.
And so the, the stars kind ofaligned.
I'm like, you gotta be kiddingme.

(27:32):
Yeah.
That's, uh, here we are in thePeace Corps, in, in, in this,
you know, developing country andwe're meeting each other.
Mm-hmm.
And then after the Peace Corps,that's where you actually went
to, uh, DC mm-hmm.
And I, uh, after the PeaceCorps, I came straight here to
Fort Collins.
Oh, yep.
So you had to, had to slow coaxher out.
Back outta here.
Took me a couple years.
Uh, so I moved here in 2000 and,uh, she moved out here in 2002.

(27:53):
Mm-hmm.
And what did you move here for,Joe?
Uh, actually it was, uh, thebusiness opportunity.
So the, uh, name of the businessthat I, uh, bought into was by
the name of Custom Blendingthat's been in town for right
off a link lane by the oldairport.
Uh, and then I did a, uh,roughly an eight year buy-in
into the company.
Okay.
I changed the name to Del.

(28:13):
Vanilla, um, which we're knownfor baking ingredients as I
mentioned previously.
Um, uh, a DM very large company,um, fortune 500 company bought
us in 2019.
Okay.
Facility is in Harmony TechCenter, just, uh, just north of
Fossil High School.
Um, still there.
Yeah.
Uh, a d m's doing a great job.
They're still growing thebusiness.

(28:34):
Uh, retained the vast majorityof our employees and our, our,
our head managers.
Um, so it was a greatrelationship.
And how like.
You came here to buy into thisthing?
Like were you already in theindustry or were you like Good
question.
Shopping for a good questionIngredient lending company in
Chicago, I was a, I was apartner in a restaurant and
catering business.
Okay.

(28:54):
So I was always kind of afoodie.
Okay.
And, uh, and then Asma said weboth had early life crisis, uh,
being, being in food service.
Uh, you know, your, yourweekends are gone.
Your holidays are gone.
Yep.
Yep.
I was working, you know,September 1st to January 1st,
seven days a week, your familiesare getting together for
holidays.
You're, you're missing these,these precious moments.
Yep.
And it takes a certain type, youknow, to be in the restaurant

(29:16):
business.
Uh, so I realized in my latetwenties that I, I wanted to
take a different path.
Yeah.
But I wanted to time out.
Never, never studied abroad inmy undergrad.
And that was you, you know, mymoment to say, Hey, I'm, I'm
gonna jump off the edge and, youknow, go to, to, to a foreign
land.
Yeah.
And, and rethink things.
And through a friend, actually,uh, one of my best friends, um,

(29:38):
his, uh, it was his futurefather-in-law that owned this
particular business.
Oh, okay.
And he was looking at an exitstrategy at the time.
Okay.
Um, his, his name's John Conway.
Um, he's been in, in thiscommunity for many, many years.
Um, he, he grows, his, his wholefamily grew up here.
I, I think he came in, in, inthe seventies.
And, uh, we, we hit it off and,uh, bus started buying into the

(29:59):
company.
Oh, okay.
Uh, started with roughly, uh,seven employees at the time.
Uh, ended up, so the buy-inwasn't super huge'cause it
wasn't a real, but it was, itwas mainly focused on, um, food
service.
Um, like US Foods, uh, Yancy'sback in the day that US Foods
bought Shamrock Foods.
Yep.
Yep.
And then I really pivoted thecompany towards retail, um,

(30:20):
retail food products.
Okay.
Okay.
So with vanilla being a kind ofour pillar, um, other baking,
cocoa, lemon extract to almondextract, uh, we, we really kind
of hung our hat on about sevenproducts.
Hmm.
And with vanilla, it's 70% ofyour world's vanilla actually
comes outta Madagascar.
Yeah.
So I had this crazy idea is thatwe're gonna start a processing
facility in Madagascar, be thefirst North American, uh,

(30:43):
company to do that, uh, to getvertically integrated.
You know, within vanilla.
So over the course of 15 years,we, we started a farmer network
as probably changed your qualityprofile and your cost profile
completely.
We took about 30% of the supplychain by doing that.
Um, McCormick being the 800pound gorilla in the industry,
uh, we were able to do a littlebit of damage, especially with

(31:05):
those products.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, so we work with about 80% ofyour North American retail
grocers.
Uh, Costco was our largestaccount for many years.
They, they still have thataccount.
Uh, trader Joe's, a largeportion of my business back then
was, uh, private label.
Uh, and then 50% was under ourown brand.
So you can still go into placeslike King Supers and see the
Dale brand.
Yeah, yeah.
But we did all of, uh, theKirkland Signature, um, um.

(31:27):
Worldwide with, with Costco,huh?
A hundred percent of TraderJoe's, which still comes from
Fort Collins.
Interesting.
Uh, Kroger, which still comesfrom the factory of Madagascar
there or whatever, processingplant beans come from, from
Madagascar, and then theirprocess here in Fort Collins.
Oh, wow, okay.
Still today.
Yeah.
So, but, uh, bittersweet, uh,selling that business, uh, with
my business partner, Dan, DanBerlin, who's still local here.

(31:50):
Oh.
Um, and, uh, yeah, so that'swhere.
We still had a, a kiddo in thehouse and, uh, you know, like,
like I said, COVID hit and soI'm like, we gotta, I gotta do
something with myself.
Yeah.
And, and Melissa and I werelooking at each other and I'll
tell us this.
Yeah.
I'm like, can we pull this off?
So she's been, she's been atrooper, you know, on this
journey.

(32:11):
And especi especially focusingon, on the mar marketing and,
and the public relation aspectsof the company.
Yeah.
Did you tell me that you grew upin an entrepreneurial family?
I did not.
Okay.
I did not.
My, my, my dad was in, in theinsurance industry.
Okay.
Yeah.
How is it that you.
Like, what skills did you bringto the table to move to Fort
Collins and be part of thiscompany?
Uh, getting back to therestaurant catering business.

(32:32):
Yeah.
I guess you, you understood thatindustry and how to Yeah.
And understood the nuts andbolts of, yeah.
Cool.
And then we did small, smallbusiness developments, um, in
the Peace Corps.
Oh, I see.
So, oh, so you'd had kind of abusiness training background of
sorts?
We, we did.
Okay.
So, so I, I really, it wasfunny, my dad, I'm sorry to,
it's sorry to like not give youenough credit.

(32:53):
No.
With my dad being in corporateAmerica, he told me as a young
man, he goes.
Start your own business.
And he got that, he, he, hereally, he stuck that in my head
at a very young age.
So kind of coming out ofundergrad, I had my head around
like, I gotta start my ownbusiness.
I gotta start my own businessing dad said, start my own
business, and which I did.
So yeah.
Uh, on our, I'm personally on mythird business and less has been

(33:15):
part of two, two of thebusinesses.
Okay.
What was the, what was thethird?
Uh, the third is telus.
Okay.
Or the rather, the, the firstwas the restaurant in Chicago
and the second Oh, gotcha.
The second was ELL here.
Okay.
Okay.
So before he coaxed you back outto Colorado here, you guys had a
venture together right then?
So early on in the ELL days,Melissa headed up our marketing
efforts as well.

(33:36):
I see, I see.
I supported.
Supported.
So, um, Melissa, what were yourother, uh, elements and how did
you feel about thisentrepreneurial lifestyle?
'cause I'm, I'm guessing as asmall seven employee business
that's pivoting.
There's probably a lot ofinteresting times.
Yes.
I mean, you know, um, you know,we're a slowly growing team.

(33:58):
You know, we're what, we're fourpeople with some contractors on
the side, um, helping us kind ofmove this forward.
Oh, with Telus?
Yeah.
Are you talking aboutspecifically Telus or No, I was
thinking about the, the earlyfor Collins days.
Like you had young childrenalready.
Mm-hmm.
How many At that time we hadthree girls.
Okay.
Uh, young.
And so, yeah, I, I continued towork up until we had our third,
and then it was, you know, itbecame too much.

(34:19):
Um, but some of the things Isupported were, you know, the
marketing, the pr, um, and thenalso when they decided to get
more involved in Madagascar andhelping them research like
opportunities there to, youknow.
Support the local economysomehow.
Um, and what was, what did thatprogram end up being?
I, as far as the farmer, thesurge, the Farmer network with

(34:40):
Surge, we built that to roughly2,500 farmers.
Oh, dang.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we started with 50 and webuilt it up to 2,500 farmers.
So that, that's where the supplychain piece really.
Mm-hmm.
Really.
Right.
And probably even consistentgrowing methods.
So they're helping you createconsistent products that we, we
had things like old team ofagronomist.
Uh, a large portion of ourproduct was organic when

(35:01):
organics were taken off.
Huh.
You know, in the early twothousands.
Um, so that was a lot of fun.
Brought me back to my PeaceCorps, brought both of us back
to our Peace Corps days.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, in this new endeavorwould tell us, you know, getting
back to places like Vietnam,it's very exciting for us, you
know, getting, once again,getting us back to where we kind
of started.
Right.
Well, and I guess having, uh,been already kind of had that

(35:24):
early life crisis in theadventure of going to Haiti, you
were.
I guess fairly comfortable withthis kind of entrepreneurial,
not knowing what the futureholds.
Always lifestyle.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I guess, you know, when you, Iget after an experience, psych
Peace Corps, you're, you're opento a lot of, you know, new
experiences.
Yeah.
'cause I think everything, youknow, you're doing in peace

(35:44):
Corps's, it's a lot of newexperience, you know?
Yeah.
Everything is, is, you're right.
It's, everything's new.
Um, but when I think about theearly days at Rodell and some of
the things, you know, that Ihelped the team with going all
the way back to that very firsttrade show that we did.
Mm-hmm.
Um, where, you know, we had noidea it was, you know, putting
a, a small six foot table.

(36:05):
You know, we were surrounded byall these other big companies
with their big, fabulous booths,and there we were with our
little six foot table and ahandful of new products that you
were trying to, um, bring to thetable.
And, um.
And it worked, you know, but wewere willing to throw it out
there, you know?
Yeah.
We didn't look pretty andpolished and you know, I feel
like, you know, Telus was thatsmall right now.

(36:25):
Um, like Rodelle was back in theday.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, you know, nobody knewRodelle and, um, you know, we
threw it out there and startedwith the six foot table and the
two of us at a food show, theFancy Food Show in San
Francisco.
And, um, you know, here we aretoday, kind of, you know,
pushing the same little rockalong with Telus, which we're
back to the six point table.

(36:45):
We're back to the six foottable.
Well, and, and it's been givinga little bit of money away
already, which means you don'thave to feed it anymore.
You know, I assume you had tofeed it quite a bit of money on
a quite a bit of time at, atfirst.
So we were able, um, which wewere very happy about, we were
able to, it was$23,000 we wereable to give the Nature
Conservancy.
That's awesome.
This passed, um, what month?

(37:07):
A month ago?
Mm-hmm.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's, uh, well, and I'msure, I don't know if you had
like a.
I'm sure you wrote like abusiness plan and, and stuff
like that, but mm-hmm.
But, you know, there's thisportion is, is for our future
and this is how much we can giveTelus to get, to get
established, you know?
Correct, correct.
And, and to not have, onceagain, that pre that financial
pressure.

(37:27):
So, um, you know, we don't drawa salary, the two of us mm-hmm.
Which changes the entirebusiness model.
Totally.
Right.
And, uh, you know, we're nothand to hand to mouth where, you
know, we're trying to put foodon the table, which we were
definitely during the Rode days.
Sure, sure, sure.
So we, we lived that.
So Melissa's lived that and she,she, you know, she's seen the
craziness of, you know,starting, you know, business,

(37:49):
you know, from, from thegrassroots up.
So here we are again andhopefully, you know, some of our
knowhow, you know, being in ourmid fifties now, uh, we were
able to expedite the whole,whole entire process.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Can we talk about some of yourfavorite products?
Sure.
Maybe, can I start with you,Melissa?
Is this for Telus?
Yeah, for Telus.
Yeah.
Well, I wear my flannel that,that I love.

(38:09):
I mean, I'm a flannel person andyou know, I wear these, you
know, it's got snaps too.
I can dress snaps, I can dressup, I can wear it in the yard.
I can, you know, hike.
Um, uh, I also love our sunshirts because I, I, uh, I've
had too much sun over the yearsand so my skin, um, likes to
hide from the sun.
So fair.
If you see me out and about, I'musually, you know.
Wrapped up with sunscreen and ahat.

(38:30):
And, um, so our, probably theUPF 50 shirts that we just came
out with this spring.
Okay.
Um, which are kind of made forthe water.
Uh, they're soft.
Um, you know, they dry fast.
Uh, they have UPF 50.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we have it in a hoodie and aquarter zip.
Um, we have it in a tank forwomen.
So, you know, if you're paddleboarding or you're, you know,

(38:51):
you know, hiking in full sun,it's a, it's a great option.
I see so many more peoplewearing water shirts these days.
Mm-hmm.
That seems smart to me.
Even, even socially as alifestyle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally.
And then I tear our vest, youknow, you know, being in
Colorado, you know, a vest.
I mean, it's kind of part ofthe, is it a puffy vest or it's
a down vest.
Uhhuh.
Yep.
Yep.
It's just kind.
I, I feel like you live inColorado, you have to have a

(39:13):
vest.
And of course, I'm gonna sayTelus is the best.
It says down, doesn't count as arecycled product, but it's very
natural.
Actually.
We use it is recycled sound.
Oh, recycled down.
Oh.
Which actually, um, comes fromit from great quality pillow
cases and mattresses.
Yeah.
Asia, they, they, they, uh, theyconsume a lot of poultry as far

(39:33):
as, uh, goose duck.
Sure.
You know, uh, so, uh, we wereable to get to use a hundred
percent recycled down.
Interesting.
So ours is certified RDS, whichis like recycled down standard,
I think is what it is.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's it.
Down.
Yeah.
Interesting.
How about you, Joe?
Do you have a couple offavorites?
Yeah.
Uh, I have to lead with,especially this time of year old
town button down.

(39:54):
So, so all of our products havelocal, is that what that is?
No, this, this is the, uh,foothills Flannel.
Okay, gotcha.
So we, we, uh, so the old townbutton downs, it made out a
really interesting fabric by thename of Sea, sea Wall, which,
uh, we use in about a half adozen of our products.
So it's made out of, uh,pulverized oyster shells.
Oh.
Blended in with a hundredpercent, uh, recycled polyester.

(40:16):
Oh, interesting.
Plastic bottles, actually.
Oh, plastic bottles, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so that's a really greatfabric.
Interesting.
But that's, that's more of alime.
So oyster shells make it.
Durable or durable?
Uh, actually it, it, it makes ita really smooth, uh, consistent,
uh, um, fabric and it's reallysoft on the skin.
All right.
Um, it has anti microbialqualities to it.

(40:37):
Okay.
And, uh, yeah, it's just a, it'sa fantastic product.
Uh, we, we make, um, ourperformance shorts, shorts out
of it, so we make some joggersout of it.
Mm-hmm.
The old town button down.
Yep.
Oh, turn button down.
I like it.
And then, uh, you know, ourshell is, is a great, um, a
great shell, long, long speakshell.
Okay.
Which is of course another localone landmark that we steer at on

(40:58):
a daily basis.
Uh, that's an extremely durable,you know, hard shell that I, you
can wear, you know, once againas a rain shell.
Mm-hmm.
As well as a, a ski, just a,which is fantastic.
A casual jacket.
So that's another one of myfavorite, you know, coming off
the ski season, I, I constantlywill wear that.
And, uh, getting back to ourduffles, I mean, uh, our duffles
are a lot of fun.
I mean, we just went a, went atrip to visit, uh, most of his

(41:20):
family, Indiana, and it's just agreat weekend, uh, duffel.
Yeah.
That myself and the kids areusing.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, something, uh, that my wifegot us that we just used for the
first time this weekend islittle.
Packable things so you can, youknow how the expandable
suitcases have the thing?
Mm-hmm.
Well, so you can do the samething uhoh like your shirts and
your pants and stuff like that.

(41:40):
And then you can carry itcompress.
You can take a week's worth ofstuff in your duffle bag that
way.
Mm-hmm.
Right, right.
So you might consider that as afuture product.
I like that because it would fitwell to expand the capacity of
your existing line.
I like, we were taking, we'retaking a hiking trip in
Scotland.
Scotland with, there you go.
Yeah.
Next month.
So you might not have time todevelop it before then.
I have to look into, well, Imight have to use it now, right.

(42:01):
To see what you think about it'saccused.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kind of like the pack.
But I heard, and I was kind of,I don't wanna say I'm suspect, I
was a scoff.
I wasn't a scoffer yet, but Iwas suspect.
Yeah.
But then I like packed it and Iwas like, huh.
I actually got twice as manyshirts in this space as I would
have my si my sister swears bythe, it'll make you double big,
heavier.
Uh,'cause you got so much stuffin there now, but yeah.

(42:22):
For a big trip like that, Ithink it makes a lot of sense.
That's great.
That's great.
So for what it's worth.
Yeah.
Um, cool.
And by the way, we, uh, we, wenormally have a giveaway, um, as
part of our thing here.
Is there, um, would you like togiveaway a tell us hat or
something like that?
By all means, for one of ourfolks, by, by all means, we can
support you with some hats.
Okay.
Even like, since we've beentalking about the duffle, I can,

(42:43):
I can support you with theduffle Okay.
Which, which is great.
Mm-hmm.
Then you don't have to worryabout sizes.
Um mm-hmm.
And, uh, clean Canteen is, youknow, it's co-branded.
Uh, it's made out of 90%recycled steel.
Those are our coffee mugs.
Oh, sweet.
We'll be more, more than happyto.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Well, let's do a, let's do a hatand a coffee mug.
Okay.
Uh, but it's, we have a game.
That's associated with it.
Oh, okay.

(43:04):
You might not like this gameunless,'cause there's some
awkward questions in here.
Oh boy.
So I'm gonna have you guys drawtwo questions each, two ping
pong balls each, all Melissa.
Oh no.
And uh, here, I'll hand it toyou and you guys can have, have
up there on the couch with you.
And then each of these, youcan't look, each of these
questions is tied to, some of'emare, are like legit business

(43:24):
questions and some are, um, notnothing, nothing non-politically
correct all the way.
Who would like to start?
I have number 16.
Number 16 Or, yeah, I guess, or91 depending on how you look at
it.
Know what?
This one's?
16.
Who has had the most significantinfluence one person on your
life?

(43:44):
Hmm.
Gosh, that's an interestingquestion.
Um, and you can't pick Joe andgood call.
That, you know.
Um hmm.
I would have to say, um,probably one of my first, out of
my first job out of college, Iworked, I told you at that
public affairs firm.
Yeah.
Um, by the name of Jessica Urmanand Associates in Chicago.

(44:05):
And I would have to say, uh, oneof the owners, you know, just a
very dynamic person, um,hardworking, incredibly smart.
Um, you know, I just, I learnedso much, um, from him and just
the kinds of work that he likedto do and the projects that we
had.
Yeah.
And just he was such athoughtful leader.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I'm reading a book right nowfrom a recent guest, uh, it's

(44:27):
called Life Entrepreneurs.
Mm-hmm.
And it's kinda like not justbuilding the business that
you're looking to build mm-hmm.
But building the life you'relooking to build.
Mm-hmm.
It sounds like he was living avery intentional life.
Mm-hmm.
And business journey.
Yeah, I would say so for sure.
Mm-hmm.
That's cool.
Thank you.
Uh, Joe, what number would youlike to believe it or not?
I got number one.
Number one, what's your favoritechildhood memory?

(44:49):
Favorite childhood memory.
Um, I, I, I guess there wouldbe, uh, they, they all kind of
intertwined.
But, um, my, my father fromBrooklyn, New York, a funny
story.
He, uh, was an avid camper.
He, he loved the outdoors.
He, he loved the, the, theculture and the history of
American Indians.

(45:09):
Okay.
And, uh, be being, uh, this iswhen you didn't wanna live in
Brooklyn, New York, back in thefifties.
Yeah.
Um, so he, he, he was a biginfluence on, uh, but it was, it
was basically all of ourcamping, all of all of our
vacations were, were, werecamping where we, we, we started
with a Volkswagen bus.
It was, uh, almost a scene outof a circus where you open up
the door and, uh, myself, mybrother, my sister, two dogs,

(45:33):
uh, and my parents, uh, wouldcamp in this Volkswagen bus.
Oh, wow.
And, uh, I actually, I likeupstate New York, kind of, well,
actually, I, I, Adirondack, Idon't know the region ly grew
up, I partially grew up in LosAngeles.
Oh.
So in the seventies, I grew upin Los Angeles.
Okay.
And my dad got relocated toChicago.
And, um, this is, uh, sobasically, um, from 1974 to

(45:53):
1982, I was in Los Angeles area.
So every vacation we would, wewould go and get in this
Volkswagen bus and just goexplore different national
parks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, we, we would go up toYosemite, um, we would go up to,
uh, Sequoia, national, nationalPark.
We would just, uh, we went to,um, you know, the deserts, uh,
in the Mojave.

(46:13):
It was, uh, it was justfantastic.
So I would have to say all thosetrips.
Right.
Very, that was foundational too.
Giving back to the seed of, youknow, my love for the outdoors.
Yeah.
Hence, you know, Telus.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
I like it.
Alright, Melissa, you ready foryour second question?
Mm.
Let's see.
Number 29.

(46:35):
What's been the most surprisingthing about this business for
you?
About Telus?
Gosh, that's a tough one.
Um.
I think that is a toughquestion.
What has been, can you read thatone more time?
Yes.
What's been the most surprisingthing?
Like you spent a couple yearsplanning and thinking and Yeah.

(46:56):
Um, and now, now two and a halfyears doing kind of more, right?
Yeah.
December, 2003.
Yeah.
23 or 23.
Mm-hmm.
I guess, I don't know what themost surprising thing about it
is.
I, I, I wanna say that, youknow, it, it's been harder than
I thought it would be.
Hmm.
Uh, to get to this point.
Um, there's so many, you know,coming out of, you know,

(47:19):
watching Joe go through, youknow, what he did with vanilla
and the supply chain andeverything.
Yeah.
I feel like there's so many morelayers to this industry.
Mm-hmm.
Um, that we both learned a lot,um, in this journey, just in how
things work.
Um, but yeah, I def I thought itwould be, I didn't think it
would be this challenging, um,but.

(47:40):
I feel like, you know, we'verisen to all the challenges.
Yeah.
Um, and so it's just anotherpart of the journey is, you
know, everything that we'velearned, um, and we've learned a
lot.
So, um, I feel like af at thispoint, we're in a really good
space.
Yeah.
So I feel like a lot of thethings that we had to learn that
were hard, are behind us.
We understand how they work nowand, and we're stronger for it.

(48:00):
Yeah.
You know, I think that's a lotof entrepreneurs.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, if I knew how hard it wasgonna be, I wouldn't have told
my boss what I told him.
You have no idea until you're init.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Fair enough.
Uh, Joey, your second numberplease?
I have number 10.
Number 10.
What, what's a hobby or a skillyou've always wanted to pick up

(48:22):
but never have?
At least not yet.
I, I know the answer.
You do.
I know the answer to this.
What's the answer?
But I'm gonna see what you say.
A hobby or a skill.
Um, well there, there's a few of'em.
Um, I would say, um.
Kite surfing would be okay.
One Okay.
That I would really like to pickup.

(48:43):
Um, actually painting is a, isanother one that I would really
like to pick up.
Um, which I haven't, and thoseare probably, what was your
thought?
I.
The guitar.
The guitar.
Well, I picked that up though.
I, I've started, well, that'swhen, when I went I, I, I, I
play my, my, I I am up to eightsongs.
Guitar.
Well, let's, like, talk to mewhat you could actually play via

(49:05):
song.
That's exactly, he's working onit.
I'm still in the basement.
I'm working on my repertoire asfar as, uh, but I'm probably up
to about eight to 10 songs onguitar.
Um, but that is something Iactually picked up.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm talking about thingsI've never done before.
Understood.
Understood.
Mm-hmm.
And then travel.
I mean, we're avid travelers.
Uh, we, we, there's still, youknow, many, many places on our
bucket list that we would liketo go to.

(49:26):
Well, for our, uh, listeners outthere, I'm gonna be the selector
and the.
Person that first writes in withthe answer of Joe's early
camping trips to the NationalParks of California.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, that is the winner of theTelus, uh, gear Coffee mug and
hat.
That's it.
And so, uh, yeah, just writethat into us on any of the

(49:46):
social medias, Instagram orLinkedIn.
And, uh, first person torespond.
We'll get that prize.
Um, I'm gonna call a break and,uh, we'll get back in just a
couple minutes.
Awesome.
How we do?
Great.
Okay.
You have such a nice voice.
I feel like I'm, you does havethe radio voice.
I sound like, you know, I havethe cold and I can hear myself

(50:09):
both coming off.
Everybody that listens knowsthat they get colds too.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, so yeah.
Don't sweat it.
Um, I'm gonna take a quick pottybreak.
Okay.
Okay, great.
When we come back, we'll jumpinto the time machine a little
bit more.
Okay.
Even into the earlier years of,uh, what, like the family
dynamic that you grew up in alittle bit.
Sure.
Um, we'll talk more about yourkids.

(50:29):
Excellent.
And, uh, that journey and whatthey're off to do, and we'll get
a little bit of advice for thenext generation as well.
Cool.

(51:27):
And we're back.
And so what I wanna do, uh, oncewe're back in the second half
here is jump in the time machineright away, because we kind of
started with the romance yearsand didn't really find out
about, about young Melissa andyoung Joe.
And so if I may, um, where didI, where would I have found you

(51:47):
as a, as a 5-year-old younglady, Melissa?
Five years old.
I was, um, one of three girls inIndianapolis, Indiana.
Okay.
Um, oldest, youngest, middle,middle child.
Okay.
Um, you know, I'm an Irish twin,so my older sister is only 14
months older and my youngersister, she's just a couple
years behind.

(52:08):
Yeah.
Um, and yeah, I was just doingwhat, I guess five years.
Five year olds, do you know,playing in the backyard?
Um, were your fam, was yourfamily from there, your parents
and stuff?
Yes.
All my family.
I come from a very large IrishCatholic family.
Okay.
So, um, I would say the firsttime I took Joe to one of our
family Christmas parties, I puta name tag on him and I said, if

(52:30):
I don't introduce you, introduceyourself, because I'm probably
related and I just haven't metthem yet.
Oh gosh, interesting.
So, um, and what was the familydynamic?
Was your mom a stay at home mom?
Did she work?
What was your dad involved in?
No, my dad was probably at thatpoint, he may have already been
divorced, so Oh wow.
Okay.
You know, he had us three girlsand then remarried.

(52:52):
Um, so I would say, you know,growing up probably someone who
I spent a lot of time with wasmy grandmother, um, especially
in the summers.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, when we were outof school, so Interesting.
And she was from Indianapolis,um, born and raised, uh, in
Indianapolis.
Yeah.
So it's big.
Also a big influence on yourlife.
Mm-hmm.
Presumably.
Mm-hmm.

(53:13):
And was that traumatic?
I mean, that divorce wasn't, noweverybody gets divorced, but in
those days it was prettyunusual.
Um, yeah, I guess I, I, um, youknow, I don't think about it too
much anymore.
I guess.
I Sure.
Um, uh, yeah.
But you, you adapted well, Iadapted regardless.
And, you know, I feel like theywere divorced at such a young

(53:34):
age.
It was, you know, there was alot of things you don't
remember.
Sure.
Um, but yes.
Yeah.
I mean, a lot of us don't reallystart having memories until
we're five or mm-hmm.
So, right.
Were you good student rightaway?
Were you introvert, extrovert,sporty?
Um.
Sporty.
I played all the sports.
Um, you know, I, I don't know,maybe back then it was part of

(53:55):
just how we went to school.
You stayed and did all theafterschool activities.
So, you know, I did brownies, Iplayed volleyball, softball, and
I ran track.
I did, you know, all the things.
Mm-hmm.
Um, as a good student, I wouldsay that just maybe depended on
the time or the teacher.
Or the teacher.
Right.
That's what I spend most on forme, how engaged or not engaged I

(54:17):
was.
So I would say probably, youknow, a decent student and then
later in high school, maybe alittle distracted.
Okay.
And then, you know, couple, myfirst couple years of college
really distracted by boys, by,no, just fun.
Yeah.
Just kind of, you know, I don'tknow.
College is, you know, it waslikes Oh, this whole new world
out there.
Fair enough.

(54:37):
Yeah.
To the point where my counselorwas like.
We need to have a talk.
You need to suck it up and get alittle better grade.
You need to slow down and yeah,let's change this dynamic a
little bit.
I have all those talks as well,so I was like, okay, maybe it's
time to pay.
And which is how I ended updoing study abroad.
Uh, and meeting Joe's friendCraig, who actually ended up
introducing us was, yeah, mycounselor was like, you know,
we, you're gonna need, if youwouldn't have been a crappy
student mm-hmm.

(54:57):
Never would've had thatconversation.
Yeah.
I changed my major, um, at thatpoint.
And then, um, you know, becauseI did that, I needed some extra
coursework, so it was like,okay, I'll do, I'll do a study
abroad.
Like let's make this fun.
Interesting.
You know, it doesn't have to bethe same old, you know, routine.
Yeah.
Um, really cool.
Yeah.
I like it.
That's a little bit of me.
Yeah, I like it.
Joe, uh, tie machine to your,uh, 5-year-old self or so, five

(55:24):
year, um, as I mentioned, I, Iwas in, uh, Los Angeles Thou,
thousand Oaks, California.
Um, just, just northwest of LosAngeles.
Great, great time to grow upthere.
Um, it was in, in the seventiesand.
You had all the Hollywood magicgoing on in there.
Yeah.
Super vibrant economy.
And, uh, believe it or not, inour, in our local neighborhood,
they, they filmed, uh, MASHback.

(55:45):
Oh, really?
Not too far away from our house.
Um,$6 million, man was a bigone.
Uh, which was filmed a locally,uh, little house in her prairie.
Wow.
Which was another one.
So, um, it was just a great timein that area, um, full of
ranches and, um, oh, it was, um,vineyards and, um, fruit, fruit
gardens.
Um, and it was like, kind oflike a Tom Sawyer and h

(56:09):
Huckberry fin type situation.
Have brothers to share this.
Uh, yeah.
Sisters.
I got a, I'm the youngest ofthree.
Okay.
I got a, a middle brother and aoldest SI sister.
Okay.
Okay.
And what, what had you inCalifornia there?
What was your, your family.
Up to your dad or dad?
Like I mentioned, he was in theinsurance industry, uh, starting
an office, a local office therefor Zurich Insurance.

(56:31):
Okay.
Which is still around, um, wasout in like in New York and they
moved him out to LA or whatever.
Chicago.
Chicago was born in Chicago.
Chicago, sorry.
Yeah.
When I was four, we moved out toLos Angeles.
Okay.
A big, big change.
Big move.
Uh, especially coming from theMidwest.
Um, my mom was a, uh, actually agrade school teacher.
Okay.
As well.
Um, she, she was an educator.
Practically her whole career,uh, which was great.

(56:52):
So, um, very, very positiveexperience.
We, we had this large ranchbehind us, of which we used to
on jump the fence and there wasa creek and there was horses,
and then there, there wascattle, which I remember
getting, getting chased up acouple trees, you know, from,
from a couple bulls.
But like I said, it, it wasreally interesting.
Uh, just a happy go lucky andreally just got drawn to

(57:12):
California.
Like a whole bunch of otherpeople were being drawn to
California in those years.
Right.
Was, it was kind of thebeginning.
It wasn't just wanna be RubyStars.
Yeah.
Beginning, yeah.
The beginning of, uh, peoplereally getting imported into,
into California.
So it was just a really goodtime, really good time to be
there.
I, for personally, I would'vemoved back, uh, in this day, day
and age.
Sure.
So timing?
Timing was everything for us.

(57:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And how about you?
Same, uh, kind of.
Doing all the sports.
I was very big on sports.
Uh, very similar to Melissa.
I was a big soccer player, um,baseball, um, player, uh,
basketball.
Played all the sports.
Probably more, much more focusedon sports than I was as far as
school's concerned.
Yeah.
Uh, definitely distracted atschool.

(57:53):
I had very, very active mind.
Uh, still do, it was hard, hardto really kind of hone in, you
know, still, you know, my focus.
Uh, but, uh, I obviously gotthrough school.
I got, I got through highschool, I got through undergrad.
Uh, but yeah, sports was a bigpart.
Uh, I was, I was introduced toplaying, playing golf.
I ended up, uh, playing a littlecollege golf Oh, okay.
As well.

(58:13):
So, uh, just a lot of fun.
Yeah.
Do you still play, still play?
Uh, it's more social.
It's, it's a social outing forme.
It's, it's, it's kind of a walkin the park.
Don't as much track of yourhandicap as you once did.
No, no.
Uh, it funny thing is I, Ipracticed so much back in the
day as I absolutely hatepracticing.
Like, like I could, could easilyuse some chipping practice,

(58:35):
which, right.
That's, that's really kinda thelast thing I want to do is so I
just go out there and just kindof hit it, you know, these days.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, um, I feel like we'vekind of covered the, the romance
days, but maybe set me to the,the circumstance when you guys
first started, your family, um,you were in Chicot.
No, we were here.

(58:56):
You were here, we were, we, weraised our families, our family
right here in Fort Collins.
So you came here for that job.
Had a, had not too many years.
And then.
Uh, we dated roughly two yearsmm-hmm.
After we got back from the PeaceCorps and, uh, we were basically
bouncing back and forth from DCand in Fort Collins.
Okay.
We did that for two years.
So every, every two, three weekswe would take turns on who's

(59:18):
visiting who.
Interesting.
And, uh, I'll never forget this,she and Melissa actually had a
conference for a NationalGeographic in Las Vegas, uh,
roughly at that two year mark.
And we were actually havingbreakfast underneath the Eiffel
Tower at the Paris.
At Paris, Paris Resort Hotel.
And that's when the conversationcame up of, what do you think

(59:39):
about me, you know, moving toFort Collins.
She was, she was working veryhard.
I mean, you've been working manyhours.
Mm-hmm.
Back for National Geographic.
And then we both know eachother, said, all right, let's
give it a shots.
Mm-hmm.
And then, uh, we got engaged,uh, soon after that and was
right.
Right after our, we got marriedin 2002, first child right
around the corner in 2003, ourfirst daughter out of three.

(01:00:02):
And, uh, we call it the expresspackage.
Right.
We, we, once again, we met at alater age, so we, we met at 30,
so we, we both kind of knew whatwe wanted at that point in time.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Figured gonna have a family timeas now, uh, married at 32, first
child at 33, and then we, we,uh, were pretty consistent
having two other girls about twoand a half years apart from each

(01:00:23):
other.
Um, Fort Collins, once again, agreat place to, to raise a
family.
Very, very happy.
Um, with, with, uh, um, I usedto call it a one horse town, and
now we're probably about a sixhorse town here in Fort Collins.
Right, right.
We used to live on the southside of Fort Collins, and then,
uh, in 2007 we moved to RisCanyon, uh, in Bellevue.
Oh, is that right?
Mm-hmm.
We're at the base of theFoothills, so really been

(01:00:46):
enjoying our time out there.
Mm-hmm.
Well, if you see a, uh, I, Ilove Ris Canyon because it's one
of the only places in the.
World that I've experiencedwhere most of the automobile
traffic will pull over and letyou pass if you're on a fast
coming motorcycle.
Mm-hmm.
They're respectful motorcycles.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If they're respectful and, uh,cyclists, we get a ton of

(01:01:08):
cyclists mm-hmm.
In that area.
Um, and, you know, we kind ofprefer cows over people these
days.
That's fair.
That's fair.
Um, let's talk about thesegirls.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I'm not very good at math.
What's that?
Uh, math, but the oldest one,age-wise now.
So the oldest, she actually justgraduated college.

(01:01:29):
Oh yeah.
And she graduated from Butler inIndianapolis.
Oh, congrats.
And two weeks ago.
And she's staying inIndianapolis for the next year
and kind of in a gap year space.
She studied well'cause she's got27 cousins and Right.
All bunch of family, somedifferent things around there.
But, you know, it's funny, shestarted in California and then
after sophomore year decided shewanted to be in Indiana, so she
transferred.
Um, and what's her name, if youdon't mind?

(01:01:51):
Her name is Emma and she justfinished, um, her degree in
psychology at Butler.
She wants to go back, um, forgrad school.
Okay.
But wanted to take a time out.
Yeah.
Um, for the next year.
So she's kind of working on whatthat looks like.
Uh, then we have Mary, our, ourmiddle daughter, um, she just
wrapped her first year at.
University of Missouri inColumbia.

(01:02:11):
Okay.
And, uh, she is studying, shejust told us yesterday, it's a
new, she kind of pivoted.
Um, she was an art.
A person, um, going in as an artmajor, and now she's moved into
textile apparel management.
Okay.
Which is interesting.
Interesting, interesting.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
She wants to take over dad'scompany someday, or mom and
dad's.
Mm-hmm.
Which would be fantastic.

(01:02:31):
Which is, which has been fun.
Um, so she's home for thesummer.
She just got home, uh, a fewdays ago and is only home for
nine weeks.
So she has become my assistantOh.
For the summer.
I love it.
She's loving it.
Yeah.
It's all, it's everything from,um, you know, like house
projects to you get to shadow meas a tam major, um, shadow, you

(01:02:53):
know, us at meetings and thingsand kind of listen and learn,
um, and see if this really issomething you wanna pursue.
What's the nickname of thatcollege or whatever.
Um, the program she's in is Tam.
Well, but the University of Miz.
Oh, Mizzou.
Mizzou, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Actually, my, one of my.
Best friends from Fort Collins.
His daughter just completed herfirst year there.
Oh, they might be friends.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, Roth is, uh, Jillian,Jillian Roth would be her name.

(01:03:16):
So ask around, we'll ask youand, uh, and your third, and
then our youngest is, uh,sophomore or she just finished
her sophomore year at PutterHigh School.
Okay.
Go putter.
Mm-hmm.
Go putter.
She's an Impala.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and yeah, she's just kindof, you know, getting through
the high school years and Yeah.
Um, you know, she's got a goodhead on her shoulders.

(01:03:36):
Uh, she just went, um, she madeit to the state championship.
Ooh.
Tournament in tennis.
Okay.
Uh, impressive playing.
Yeah.
Double tennis for Pooter.
So she had a good season thisyear.
Um, and yeah, she just finishedher last day of school
yesterday.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of that transition.
Um, Joe, one of the games weplay in this, in this
conversation is one worddescription of the kids.

(01:03:59):
And since Melissa just did the,the legwork there, maybe you
wanna of all three?
No.
One, one word for each.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, that's pretty good.
Alright.
Um, I, I'll start with theyoungest.
Uh, I, I would say, uh, tenacityis, uh, a big one for, for, for
our youngest.
She always likes to persevere.
Yeah.
Uh, middle child, one word.

(01:04:23):
Social.
I would say she's extremelysocial and creative.
I would, I would throw that outthere.
Uh, oldest, I would say pensive.
Uh, she, she's, I don't evenknow what pensive means.
Cautious, cautious, prudent out,humble, prudent.
Um, everything is well thoughtout.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like it.
That was a bit of a curve ball.

(01:04:44):
You there?
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
I didn't, if I've warn you aboutit, then you wouldn't have so
much hard time with it.
Would you, would, Melissa, wouldyou agree with those?
Yeah, pretty much.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So, um, if you were like givingadvice not just to your
daughters, but just the world,uh, a young person in the world,
kind of at that same phase inthe whatever it is, 18, 20, 22,

(01:05:07):
figuring out.
You guys both had the blessingof early life crisis kind of.
Right?
But there's a lot of people thatare pensive about the world and
where I should try to geteducated so a AI won't take my
job, and different things likethat.
Right.
Like what kind of advice wouldeither of you could start
really?
You want me to go?
Sure.
I would say, you know, one ofthe things I think everybody

(01:05:32):
should do is just go haveexperiences.
You know, just try new things.
Yep.
You know, if it's, you know, youknow, if you're in a major and
you feel like it's not working,it's okay to change.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but put yourself out there,you know, at the university
level, get involved, getinvolved in things maybe you
haven't tried.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, like for us, formyself, you know, um, when I was

(01:05:56):
in college, you know, I triedthe school paper.
Um, I, you know, tried sellingads for the school paper.
I worked on the editorial side,and then I did study abroad and
that opened so many doors forme.
Mm-hmm.
And.
Um, you know, it just, it, itintroduces you to new
experiences.
It teaches you life lessons,whether they're positive or
negative.
Yeah.
You're all, you're constantlylearning from them and I think
it's so valuable.

(01:06:16):
A lot of saying yes.
Mm-hmm.
At least once.
Yeah.
So I think it was the quote fromthe high school or the college
graduation that I thought wasreally impactful.
Um, you're born with a brain,but life gives you a mind.
And that was at Butler'sgraduation.
That was by one of the keynotespeakers.
And I was like, that's reallypowerful.
You know, when you think aboutit.
So it's filling your mind withall these experiences and it
kind of Totally, you become whoyou are because of it.

(01:06:38):
Well, it's something that AI cannever do.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it can't go haveexperiences.
It just.
Like is a mirror of sorts.
Mm-hmm.
On, on language.
Mm-hmm.
Which means nothing kind of.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I love that Joe.
Uh, sure.
Any reflections there?
Um, along the same lines asMelissa just mentioned, I, I
believe the, the youth, youknow, just looking at my own
children and nephews and, andsome nieces and, you know,

(01:07:02):
friends around us.
I, I think there's a lot ofpressure on, on, on the youth
today, on really figuring outat, at an early age who you want
to be when you grow up.
Yeah.
And, uh, un unless you'respecialized, which a lot, a lot
of kids are, you know, veryspecialized Sure.
As far as where they want to go.
But I think there's this reallytoo much pressure at, you know,
within your, your teen years of,yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:07:23):
What do you want to do?
Choose something, you know, whatdo you want to do for the rest
of your life?
And they feel like they're,they're a bit stuck at times.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And, uh, I, I just would just,you know, for those, for those
kids, I would say change isokay.
Yeah.
You know, if something's notworking, try things.
Try, try.
Don't get into a bunch of debt.
Try something new.
Get a job, right?
Say, right.

(01:07:44):
Uh, you know, either that ortent.
I'm a big proponent on, uh,getting a job at an early age.
I, I started personally workingwhen I was 12 as a, as a caddy
at, at a, yeah.
As a scene, right.
Outta Caddy Shack outside ofChicago.
It was kind of funny.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but, uh, I would say, yeah,um, once again, don't be afraid
of change.
Um, I would throw out theirtravel too.
Don't be afraid.

(01:08:04):
Um, we've, especially beingPeace Corps volunteers, we
really emphasize to our kids tohave a chance to study abroad.
If you ever get a chance, seewhat the other side of that
fence looks like.
And I'm not, I'm not justtalking about, you know, going
to Cabo on a family.
Right.
That's not traveling.
You know, I'm, I'm talking aboutif you do get any, any type of
opportunity to travel,especially to a developing

(01:08:27):
country, you, you really, reallyunderstand.
You know, what, what makes theworld go around and Yeah.
And what it looks like on theother side of the fence.
So you mentioned earlier, Joe,that you did Outward Bound when
you were like.
16, 16 or something and mm-hmm.
Um, also that a lot of times itwas troubled youth kind of
situation or whatever.
Did you get into some troublethat got you there?
Or, or No.

(01:08:48):
So, so I would say, uh, I wouldsay the vast majority are bound.
Uh, there's a very similarprogram up in Wyoming by the
name of Noles.
So this is, uh, really based onthat outdoor education, OO
opening, uh, opening yourself upto.
The outside world.
Um, so I would say the vastmajority of students, both for
Knowles and Outward Bound are,are kids, you know, in their

(01:09:08):
teens, um, that, that are justinterested in, in the outdoors.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gotcha.
In general.
Um, and then they do put you indifferent leadership, you know,
roles within the programs.
So each, each, each studentwithin the program gets a chance
to be a leader.
Yeah.
Okay.
One thing I loved about OutwardBound, and this actually came
from the Native Americans, isyou did a three day solo.

(01:09:30):
So you, you would actually haveto stay by yourself for three
days in a given area.
Uh, limited on very, I mean,literally, I think without your
phone.
Oh, no, there wasn't a phone.
Well, in 1986 there was nophone.
I, I'm proud to say I didn't getmy first cell phone until I was
32 years old.
Um, but uh, you would have like12 Ritz crackers, a little bag
of raisins and peanuts and, uh,you basically would fast and, uh

(01:09:52):
Oh dang.
For, for the American Indians,it was a bit of a vision quest.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's a time to reflect.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, for the disadvantageuse, it was, it was a big deal
for I'm sure, especially innercity kids, really reflecting on
who am I?
What am I doing?
Who do I want to be?
Mm.
How do I treat others?
Fascinating, you know, who'simportant to me in, in my life.
Um, and that's just, that'soutside of, you know, obviously

(01:10:14):
hiking and doing peaks and justbeing in outdoors.
So, um, yeah, it just really dida lot for me.
It, it changed my world.
Sure.
Sounds like it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, let's talk about the store.
How did you choose a location?
We spent about six monthslooking for a location, uh, old
town's a tough place to, to, tofind, yeah, yeah.

(01:10:35):
To find retail space.
Um, and so when we were looking,we were looking at roughly.
1500 square feet to 2000 squarefeet.
Um, we were looking forsomething new that we could put
our own signature on.
So, um, our location, which isright across from El Burrito,
right in, right in betweenGinger and Baker and New
Belgium.
Uh, really very close to to theriver.
The, the Pooter over there, uh,was a brand new location, so we

(01:10:58):
were able to get pretty creativewith the space.
Gotcha.
As we were going after kind of arustic contemporary feel and
like Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, it was, which, you know,very natural look.
Um, you know, our veneer on thewalls is, um, a beetle kill from
Wyoming that we, we use for, forthe wood siding.
Um, but we looked, of course,everybody wants to be off of

(01:11:18):
mountain and college, uh, whichis very limited, very limited
space.
The restaurant space there wasavailable briefly.
Mm-hmm.
It might make, might not makesense to make a retail, to, to
rehab that space would've beendifficult.
So, so our location ended upbeing, in my opinion perfect.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, 1600 square feet, perfectsize for what we wanna show as
far as our goods are concerned.

(01:11:39):
And I do feel that the, thequote unquote river district,
the up and coming area Yeah.
Uh, is really in the next fiveyears, uh, it's, it's really
going to be a true part of OldTown, I believe That's correct.
Yeah.
And that, that's right aroundthe corner for us.
Mm-hmm.
They gotta kind of figure outwhat the story is with the
parking situation.
Is the city actually gonnasupport.
Parking over there is limited.

(01:11:59):
It's very challenging.
I hope this, uh, city is, I hopethe city is listening.
Listening and being veryproactive.
Yeah.
'cause that's, that's where thedevelopment gonna going to be
happening, you know, for, forOld Town.
So, um, yeah.
Parking is limited.
You have that space right acrossthe street from Ginger and Baker
that has become public parking,but that's gonna change, change
soon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's gonna be an apartmentcomplex there soon.

(01:12:21):
Oh, is that right?
Yeah.
Oh, dang.
So, yeah, it's even gonna bemore limited.
So, and it's even changed sincein the last two years, that
whole area.
Mm-hmm.
It's just, it's constantlydeveloping.
Yeah.
So we're, we're very happy to bepart of that community.
Talk to me about, uh, FortCollins.
Like, you know, the internet washere, but barely doing much.
When, when you guys moved totown respectively?

(01:12:43):
About the same time I did.
Really?
Okay.
Uh, and, uh, you know, it'sgrown and developed.
Would you, is this home for along time or if you were gonna
move, where would you move?
After the kids are out the nestand Teis is working on its own
or whatever.
I, I think I can speak for bothof us.
We're, we're, we're not moving.
We're, this is, this is home tous.

(01:13:03):
Mm-hmm.
We raising, raising our threegirls here in Fort Collins, it,
it's, it's been a pleasure.
And just getting back to, we asa family, we do all, all things
Colorado as far as far asoutdoor recreation.
Yeah.
I have two, two daughters thatI'm very proud of.
I'm proud of all my daughters,but they out scheme me now as
far Oh, okay.
So they're, they're beyond me onall mountain terrain.

(01:13:25):
I'm like, okay, you guys go,I'll, I'll meet you up.
Yeah.
Catch up to you.
I'll meet, meet you at thebottom of the chairlift.
Uh, so it just, just all thingsColorado, getting back to the
hiking, getting back to the, tothe camping, uh, you know, the
backpacking, um, the skiing, youknow, the, the fishing, um,
which I've never, I'm a terriblefisherman by the way, but
especially with my dad growingup in, you know, Brooklyn, New

(01:13:45):
York.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was a terrible fisherman.
So, uh, no, we're not goinganywhere.
Um, we, we do have a, a, a placeup in Winter Park that is kind
of our getaway.
Sure.
And we absolutely love it up inTabernash.
Um, been going up there for 20years.
Uh, the city has changed.
Um, we, we moved here, I believethe population was 60,000, and
now we're up to, you know,hovering, getting close to

(01:14:07):
190,000.
Right.
So, you know, three times.
Three times the size.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When, when we moved here withthat, uh, obviously getting back
to city planning, uh, there's alot, a lot that goes, goes into
that.
Yeah.
So, you know, we used to rotate.
You know, three, threerestaurants and now we're up to,
you know, maybe eight.
You're, you're a, you're apretty, uh, good looking guy
with a good business history andstuff.
Maybe some, some local politicsfor you, Joe.

(01:14:30):
Is that a temptation?
Uh, no.
No.
Uh, to see Telus grow, um, isgoing to be very gratifying for
both of us.
And to getting, getting back tothat, give back a hundreds, the
more we grow, the more we cangive away.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, being in, in, inmy mid fifties, you know,
getting back to travel andbucket list and we will be empty

(01:14:52):
nesters in a couple years.
Uh, definitely, definitely wannafocus on some, getting back to
the personal hobbies.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We definitely wanna focus onthat.
Um, politics, to me, that's,that's a, that's a, that's a
tough place, dangerous brand,especially if you've got a
brand, especially this day andage.
Yeah, yeah.
These parties are so divided.
I mean, I'm, I'm theindependent, you know, out there
that I argue, argue both sides.

(01:15:14):
You, and so I've been registeredin independent for over 20 years
now.
Um.
But it's, it's, it's a bit of anugly, you know, business as far
as politics are concerned thisday and age.
It's, uh, I, uh, my blog last,this actually that went out
today, probably earlier today,kind of was bemoaning the fact
that both parties seem to beleading our nation into

(01:15:37):
bankruptcy, uh, you know, from afederal level, uh, just to, with
different spending priorities.
Exactly.
But neither one of'em seems tocare that we're, you know,
borrowing a third of what we'respending as a, as a federal
government that just don't workwell, just crossing the aisle
this day, day and age is, isjust, it's not there as it used
to be.

(01:15:57):
Um, we, we grew up withDemocrats working together with
Republicans and vice versa.
Yeah.
Um, and we haven't seen that inquite some time, which is very
unfortunate as far as far as I'mconcerned.
Right.
Which is being productive forthe, you know, em, betterment
of, of the country.
And, uh, I, I just hope thatthey can start, you know, these
two parties can start workingtogether and not, not be so

(01:16:19):
divided.
We'll be in a tough place ifthey can't start figuring it out
a little bit because mm-hmm.
If everything that Trump does isterribly evil to everybody on
the other side and vice versamm-hmm.
It's hard to ever find thatcompromise.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, any, uh, questions forme?
You have a wonderful radio voiceby, by the way, and, uh, I'm

(01:16:43):
sure you can make a career outof it.
Uh, well, can anybody make acareer?
Where is your future?
Where is my future?
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
That's an interesting question.
I think it's here as well, youknow, as a headquarters, Fort
Collins, um, I would love to,you know, see Loco think tank
continue to grow, uh, as aconcept outside of Northern

(01:17:04):
Colorado.
You know, and I.
In my ideal world, it would growin such a way that would allow
me more flexibility to traveland do podcasts with interesting
people around the, around thecountry.
I think I, I love the, the, thenotion of doing podcasts for a
living someday, but we're a longways away from that.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and, uh, you know, as youprobably know, in navigating

(01:17:30):
those, those business decisionsalong the way, it's such a
lonely place.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, there aren't thatmany organizations doing what
local think Tank does andsupporting, especially the
little guys in that sevenemployee Sure.
Realm where you started and, youknow, vetting out that decision
to go from, you know, a, a moreof a wholesale to a retail

(01:17:50):
brand.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And I thinking about, and thenactually building an integrated
business.
Mm-hmm.
You know, those are, thatvertical integration was really
the secret to your.
Long term success it seems.
Sure.
You know, so, so how do I buildan integrated brand?
Mm-hmm.
Can I do something with thepodcast and the, and the think
tank chapters and things likethat?
I think you can.

(01:18:11):
Mm-hmm.
Probably.
I hope so.
Mm-hmm.
That's the goal.
Yeah, that's great.
I think you can.
Mm-hmm.
Well, I sure appreciate you guystaking time to be in here.
I really appreciate what you'redoing.
Honestly, I think the notion ofhaving a sustainable enterprise
in that space, um, is just grandin it, on its face and like your
products are bomb.

(01:18:31):
Thank you.
Like, I can't wait until I havelike five of your, uh, gear
items in my itinerary instead ofjust, we, we co-brand a lot.
That's a big portion of ourbusiness.
Yeah.
That's gonna be my facilitatorgift this year.
It is gonna be that.
And, uh, I'm looking forward tomaking those deliveries.
Thank you, Kurt.
Thank you.
So thanks for being here.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.

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EXPERIENCE 223 | Building a Social Enterprise with Joe & Melissa Basta of Tellus Outdoor Gear

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EXPERIENCE 223 | Building a Social Enterprise with Joe & Melissa Basta of Tellus Outdoor Gear