EXPERIENCE 227 | Navigating Life & Business, Together - Mark & Kathy Rushing Share their Secrets to a Lasting Entrepreneurial Marriage. - The LoCo Experience

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
In this episode of the LocoExperience Podcast, I sat down
with Mark Rushing and Kathyrushing to discuss their
entrepreneurial adventures and45 year marriage.
Mark is the owner of PortableRestroom Solutions.
While Kathy is the founder ofLoadstar Relationship Coaching,
they share their journey fromtheir college days at Texas a
and m and into their earlyentrepreneurial ventures, which

(00:22):
included a failed church plant.
We also delve into their faithjourney, how it evolved, and
their struggles with finding theright church community in
Colorado.
We discussed the challenges ofmaintaining a strong marriage in
an entrepreneurial setting andthe impact of their business
experiences on theirrelationship.
Mark opens up about thedifficulties of running multiple
businesses, including achallenging assisted living

(00:43):
business affected by COVID-19,which found them restarting in
business and life in NorthernColorado.
Kathy emphasizes the importanceof creating a vision together to
maintain a strong relationship.
And Mark credits his experiencewith peer advisory groups like C
12 and local think tank and howthese communities have been
valuable in building skills andperspective throughout.
Their focus remains in thedignity of work, the importance

(01:05):
of community, and the enduringstrength of their partnership.
There is strong wisdom fromlived experience in this
episode, and I know you'llenjoy, as I did my conversation
with Mark and Kathy rushing.

(01:55):
Welcome back to the LocoExperience Podcast.
I'm joined today by Mark andKathy Rushing.
And Mark is the owner ofPortable Restroom Solutions,
also a Loco Experience, or LocoThink Tank member.
And Kathy is the founder ofLoadstar Relationship Coaching
and potentially a future look ofThink Tank member as well.

(02:17):
So welcome, welcome to the show.
Thanks.
Oh, thanks.
Thanks for being here.
Yeah, thank for having us.
Yeah.
How many years have you guysbeen married?
Forever and a day.
45.
45 years.
Well, that's pretty goodcredibility if you're like a
relationship coach, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who makes it harder to staymarried?

(02:38):
Oh.
I didn't know you were gonna askthat question.
Well, I don't know.
Like I told you, I just askwhatever questions on my mind.
I always tell people that,'causeJill, and I've been married for
22 years and I say it's a loteasier for me than it is for
her.
Um, I'll let Mark answer thatfirst.
Oh yeah.
I definitely make it harder.
I would agree.

(03:00):
Well, we're boys.
That's like part of our, that'spart of it.
Like place in life.
Yep.
Oh, well so much of this journeyas an entrepreneur when we
didn't even know what that waswhen we got married, we were
wide-eyed.
Yeah, yeah.
Idealistic college students.
Can we, you know, I told youkind of the stage we might set
talking about business andstuff, but can we go back to

(03:21):
that season of life first?
Yeah.
Um, let's just talk about thesetting.
Where, where was this at?
Where you met and fell in loveand you know, eventually got
married.
We were both at Texas a and m.
Okay.
Which is, where is that?
That's in, that's in Texas.
Well, in Texas, I know BigTexas.

(03:43):
Which is where, like north andwest of Dallas kind of, or
something.
Northwest of Houston.
Northwest of Houston.
Kind of.
So like north of Austin?
Almost between Houston andAustin.
Okay.
Alright.
Yep.
So, um, so you're both theregoing to school?
Yep.
We were both there.
I was in the, um, Aggie band andthe Core Cadets did that whole
thing.
Okay.

(04:03):
Um, we were both involved in theBaptist Student Union.
Okay.
There, and that's where we metKathy.
Went on a backpacking summerdoing backpacking ministry in
Okay.
In, uh, Colorado, which caughtmy attention.
Okay.
And so I, uh, like that chickmust be pretty cool.
She's going backpacking toColorado.

(04:24):
Exactly.
I finagled away to, uh, go lookat her backpacking pictures and.
Then eventually ask her out.
Okay.
I was very shy, so it took awhile.
Yeah.
And then I wasn't sure, so Idated him and another guy at the
same time.
Really?
Was that allowed in theconservative kind of Baptist,
uh, background?
Well, you wouldn't think so, butI think she grew, well you

(04:46):
weren't officially courting yet.
She grew up Methodist, so.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Got the rules.
That's kind of anything goesover there.
Yeah.
So, Kathy, tell me what it wasabout Mark, despite his shyness,
that, uh, allowed you to, uh,choose him, I guess, like how
were you dating the other dudefirst?
Or what was the scene there thatcame a little later?

(05:09):
Oh, it do.
It did.
Yeah.
Um, well, I, um, my parents haddivorced like it was final.
January of my senior year.
Oh.
And so I was So you were freshlytraumatized by failed.
I was really scared to commit.
Yeah.
You know, like, gosh, I don'twanna end up like that.
And there was just somethingabout Mark that was just, um, we

(05:32):
were great friends.
We would talk for hours and wewould run together and had a few
classes together.
And, um, it was just, you know,it was dreaming about the future
and just what life could be liketogether.
And yeah.
It was that friendship reallythat was the foundation, which,
um, is always the foundation ofa great relationship or a long

(05:54):
lasting Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And so, um, yeah, I would sayI'm definitely still best
friends with Jill.
Yes.
Like, just nobody I'd ratherspend time with.
Exactly.
Yeah.
45 years later and it's like,this is who I wanna spend my
time with.
And, um.
Yeah.
The, the other guy, when I datedhim briefly, like for a month,
and then I was like, okay, I'mnot gonna date anybody and put

(06:17):
some limits.
And he didn't respect them,whereas Mark did.
And I was like, well, that, youknow, that tells me a lot.
So, you know, we got married ourlast semester at a and m and,
um, so it's, it's, it's been ajourney.
It has been.
We were poor as church.
I want to, um, like go into,when did the first

(06:38):
entrepreneurial venture start?
Like, from there?
'cause did you grow up in anentrepreneurial family, mark or,
or you Kathy?
No, I did not.
My dad was, um, in ministry.
Okay.
Although he initiated a numberof ministry things Yeah.
That I learned about later.
More of like an entrepreneurkind.
Yeah.
Within that.
Yeah.
It really was, um, created newideas that caught traction

(06:59):
within that space.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
He taught me how to paint houseswhen I was in high school and I
actually started paintinghouses.
And even then in high school,college.
Oh, so you were already anentrepreneur when Kathy was
falling in with you?
I guess I wouldn't have calledit that.
Sure.
But I, I had a hard time workingfor somebody else even then.
Okay.
Um, so yeah, painted houses, didremodeling, did roofing, all

(07:24):
that kinda stuff.
Yeah.
Through summers at a and m.
Um, then I went to seminary.
Kathy went to grad school.
I was working, doing the samekind of thing then.
So you guys didn't make a lotmuch money for, you said, for
his church for a long time,years, because you're still
gonna school, you're gonnaseminary like for a long time.
Yeah.
And you're still painting housesin the summers and stuff, gonna

(07:45):
seminary probably.
Well, all year round.
Yeah.
Right.
Not just during the summeranymore.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then, um, did you have kidsright away?
No.
You don't have any kids at allduring seminary?
Right.
Toward the end of my seminary,well, actually Kie walked across
the stage with her masters inpsychology.
Pregnant.
Okay.

(08:05):
Seven months pregnant.
Yep.
Yeah.
So we had our firstborn, Jeremy.
Okay.
That summer I was there a littlebit longer for seminary.
Sure.
And then trying to figure outwhat we were gonna do next.
Yeah.
Well, so back up.
'cause Mark comes from aministry family, right?
That was all he had known.
Oh, I came your dad, grandpa.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

(08:25):
Both lot generations.
Okay.
And my dad was an engineer.
Very traditional.
My mom was a homemaker and Ithought that I was gonna have a
counseling practice in a churchif he was gonna pastor Sure.
Somewhere.
Right?
Yeah.
And it was first built in plantbase, right?
Yeah.
Yep.
You would think.
And the.
First, I think it was your firstyear in seminary that he came

(08:47):
home one day and was like, Iwanna plant a church.
And I'm like, whatever.
Does that even mean, you know,it was, it was nowhere in my
understanding or experience.
And I had actually started atseminary, wasn't a very good
program for counseling, and Idecided to change to University
of North Texas now.
Mm-hmm.
Um, thinking, well, I think thatmeans we're not gonna have a

(09:09):
very big church to start.
Right.
They won't have a counselingcenter.
Right.
And so I was like, I better justget a degree so that, that's
where the seed was planted.
Oh, interesting.
I had no idea what, you know,where this journey was gonna
take us as.
That's for sure.
Church planters.
So were you guys like active ina church or was somebody like

(09:31):
whispering in your ear, mark,Hey, I think, uh, you know, this
was, was a God whispering inyour ear, like, I want you to
plant a church for me.
Like, where, what was this?
Coming from?
Well, that's an interestingquestion and one that I, I'm
still not sure I have an answerto.
Fair.
Alright.
25 years later, hopefully.
God.
Um, it was a part, the seminaryI went to was in Fort Worth.

(09:52):
It was Southern Baptist.
It was very, very missionoriented.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, um, that's interesting.
I don't normally think about theBaptist as being very, like,
outreach focused of planting alot of new churches and stuff
like that, but that's maybe just'cause I don't really know.
Yeah.
You know, like we have ColoradoBaptists are a little different

(10:12):
there.
But, but anyway, yeah.
I mean I took classes on churchplanting and theology and
everything and, and I don't knowwhat it was that caught my, I
mean I think it was thatentrepreneurial bug that was a
part of me.
Right.
Rather than like growing upwithin an existing baptist
church organization kind ofthing.

(10:34):
Like the idea of starting a newplant was just intriguing.
Yep.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then it's just what got meexcited, like, so we raised some
money, we moved to California,Southern California.
When, when I graduated.
Like from within your church oryour, like how do you Friends
and family, just, um, yeah,you're like, Hey, do you wanna
give us some money to go plant achurch in Cali?

(10:54):
Yeah, exactly.
We were sponsored, we werechurch planter apprentices.
And I didn't, and I don't knowif you don't, if you know much
about Southern Baptist, I don'tconsider myself Southern Baptist
any longer and partly for thesame reasons that I was always
raising as issues.
Then why is it women can'tpreach and women can't teach and

(11:14):
women can't do this, but.
I have a certificate that saysKathy Rushing Church Planter
Apprentice.
Right.
So it was his calling, but I, Ikind of got lumped together.
And you were expected to be the,the helper.
Indeed.
Yeah.
And I, you know, I was clearlyvery supportive if this was what
Mark was wanting to pursue,great.

(11:37):
But I, I realize that thatcaused a tremendous amount of
stress for me, because we gotpregnant with our second one
Sure.
About a month after we movedthere.
Oh, wow.
So, well, and yeah, like it ornot, security is like one of the
most important things for mosthumans, and especially for
females and like, yeah.

(11:58):
Mark's basically telling you,you will have no security as we
raise these small children inthe near term.
You know, kind of, yeah.
It, you know, I didn't think alot about security at the time
because we, as you had somesponsor planters and stuff, had
some, we had a salary, but itwasn't enough to live on
Southern California.
Even in the eighties.
This was the mid eighties, butat least you had a base.

(12:19):
We had a base and that wasmarket paint houses and stuff,
if you needed to.
Well that's, that's why weraised additional support was
like, we found a house to rent.
We're like, it's gonna be thismuch.
Which seems super cheap now.
But anyway, it, there was somemis mixed messages and, um,
yeah, so we, we did that and,you know, was, we wore several

(12:41):
hats.
Was it not successful plantingor, you know, we, um, talk me
about that journey.
Yeah.
We were just trying to do achurch based in small groups and
really be a part of thecommunity and gathered.
Um, a small group of people.
Yeah.
Um, you know, I look back and Isee that, I mean, there were a

(13:02):
number of people that I stillcan see their faces.
Mm-hmm.
And remember just some lifechanging experiences with them.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, we just, we didn't getthat critical mass, you know,
that we really needed.
And then we had, like, after wewere there about two or two and
a half years, a couple of realkey families actually moved out

(13:25):
of town and we just reached theplace and they were one of the,
some of the bigger financialsupporters.
I was like, we just can't.
Yeah, we just really couldn'tkeep going and I was probably
pretty burned out at that point.
Yeah.
You know, in those, well, whenit's, when it's tough plowing,
you know, it's, it's a heavyburden to keep strapping the
yolk on the oxen and, andgetting out there, you know?

(13:47):
Yeah, yeah, it is.
Yeah.
And because so much of it, itwas inviting people into our
home and just buildingrelationships and we ha now have
a new baby.
There's so many people.
Yeah.
And I'm working on my hours,3000 hours to be licensed in
California.
So it was a lot.
And we had no support system.
Now when they send out churchplanters, all your families out

(14:10):
in Texas, everybody was inTexas.
Right, right.
Yeah, that's what I waswondering to myself is.
I guess they do.
Typically you don't send out acouple Yeah, no.
Like they did in some of the olddays, but you send out at least
like three couples or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And sometimes there's wholegroups of people, families that
move to a community and Right.
Plant their lives.

(14:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
As they're planting a church,which is great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Our church actually had anattempt to plan a branch out in
like Durango.
Mm-hmm.
I think, and we, we sent acouple out there, we sponsored
'em and like two or three otherfamilies from our Yeah.
Congregation, like moved outthere to become part of it.
And, and it never, I don'tquite, it kind of fell off the
vine in some ways and then itkind of continued as a church,

(14:53):
but with sponsorship fromanother More local church.
Huh.
Like in a next town over kind ofthing.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Because it's just too far.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Our church didn't have any juiceto, to reach out to Durango.
Yeah.
Right, right.
You know, it was too far outsideof our circle of kind of
influence Yeah.
And support, if you will.
Yeah.
So anyway, so that was, yeah, weclosed it.
It was, it was.
It was tough, kind of sad, alittle bit of a relief, but we,

(15:15):
we also just felt kind of lost,like, what do we do next?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I ended up going to work atanother local church, fairly
new, um, really just in chargeof all the small groups.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, which was in many ways agreat experience.
Yeah.
We had made some really greatfriends again, saw lives really

(15:39):
changed that, um, you know, Ican see faces.
Yeah, totally.
Um, but there was, or, and therewas, the senior pastor was.
Uh, pretty narcissistic andthat's not good.
No, it's not.
And not end well.
Yeah.
So it just didn't end well.
Yeah, that's a long story.

(16:00):
Requires more whiskey.
It's a little bit like MarsHill, uh, but wasn't quite that,
uh, not quite dramatic, but yes.
Well, it didn't get that bigbefore it imploded.
Right.
But many similarities and itended up actually imploding and,
um, which is, was sad.
So were you drawn in by thisperson or by the role?
The shepherding?
Both.

(16:21):
Yeah.
Yeah, both.
I mean, that's like, you can'treally be a cond man unless
you're good at it, right?
Like it's the kind of, thetragedy of life is like
everybody seems, everybody that.
Takes advantage of people.
Seems trustworthy to thosepeople.
Yeah.
I guess in a way.
Yeah.
And you know, the, like if it'syour drug dealer, you know, he,

(16:42):
you can't really trust him.
Yeah.
Right.
You know, or whatever.
You know, he is a guy.
You're buying some illegal gunsfrom like, you know, that you're
going into a sketchy situation,but Yeah.
In a church setting or a, youknow, life insurance buying
situation.
Right.
This guy was, was very gifted.
Uh, he was a good speaker.
He, um, he was very gifted withconnecting at people that

(17:07):
normally wouldn't connect to achurch.
Yep.
Yep.
Which was really awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he just really struggledwith anyone else who was a
leader in any sense.
Okay.
Um, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it's a long, he was,he was genius with a thousand
followers.
He didn't, was threatened byanybody else that would actually
think and do for themselves.

(17:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's, uh, let's kind of,this is gonna be crazy, but
we're gonna jump right into,back to where we would've
started.
Yeah.
Because we'll circle back tothis, but talk to me about
portable restroom solutions.
Yeah.
So, uh, just about four yearsago, okay.
Um, we were in the process ofmoving here.

(17:51):
We'd been in Granby for a coupleof years.
Okay.
Um, as we transitioned out ofTexas, um, our oldest son and
his wife were here.
And middle son.
Middle son, sorry.
Our middle son and his wife werehere.
Um, backstory, you know, withthe business in Texas that

(18:11):
didn't survive COVID.
Yeah.
Um, so.
I was looking for something elseto do.
You were, you were startingfresh.
Yeah.
So, um, yeah.
So was it the family connectionthat was your path back to
Colorado after chasing Yeah.
Not chasing this girl out toColorado, but at least becoming
intrigued by her.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We had tried to get to Colorado,our whole married lives.
Yeah.
I mean, and we've vacationedhere forever and just really

(18:34):
love it.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but there was, I was lookingfor an opportunity to buy a
business.
Portable Rental Systems was abusiness, a small porta potty
business that had been heresince, I think, 1996.
Okay.
And, uh, the owner was ready toretire.
He was kind of shrinking it andI came across it on Biz By Cell.

(18:57):
Okay.
And, um, yeah, we went throughthe process and bought this
business.
Yeah.
Um, and have been growing it andhaving fun with it.
You changed the name right awayto portable restroom Solutions
and stuff?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kept the PRS, um, because a lotof people knew it as PRS.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we went with portablerestroom solutions and rebranded

(19:19):
kind of niched down a littlebit.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, and we've continued toexpand, um, right.
Well you've run a ton, right?
Like Yeah.
When I bought the business, itwas doing about 475,000.
And we'll do just a little bitover 2 million this year.
Nice, nice.
So just super solid growth.

(19:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's some things that peoplenever stop doing, growing a
business.
I've heard all the junks foryou.
All the puns.
Oh gosh.
When we, when he said he wasbuying this?
Yes.
The puns.
Oh, right.
Were never ending.
Oh my gosh.
We, uh, so we, Jill and I justspent four nights up at by
Crested Butte.

(20:00):
Uhhuh above treeline.
And our, uh, beautiful.
Yeah.
We took the ambulance camper outthere and we were, we were not,
yeah.
Not above the treeline, but wewere in a beautiful spot.
And, uh, but the, the number twojob is the biggest challenge
with remote camping.
Yeah, absolutely.
And we've got a Luggable lubucket and we've got a little

(20:21):
tent that gives you privacy, butthe tent.
Took some wind damage was, wasforever destroyed.
But you know, so like I wasliterally like, okay, I guess
the bucket in this kind of spothere between these trees is the
most private it's gonna get forme.
Yeah.
Um, anyway, I digress.
But it is an essential, yeah.

(20:43):
You know, everybody's gonna doit and so that is a nice thing.
How have you been able to growit?
Like what, what is the, becausethe marketplace.
Ha hasn't necessarily grownmuch, although you bought it
coming outta COVID.
So the event business wasprobably slow.
The event business was slow whenwe bought it, and that's grown

(21:03):
tremendously.
Yeah.
Um, I was telling you earlier,we, we do running events.
We did the Colorado Marathon, wedo the Rocky Grass down in
Lions.
Awesome.
So a lot of big events likethat.
We just started working with CSUthis last year.
Yeah.
Tailgating.
Um, so we've really focused ongrowing events.

(21:25):
Also focused on growingconstruction.
Yeah.
'cause construction is.
Just not slowing down here.
Right.
No matter what else happens.
Um, well it's two differentthings, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like, but you probably don'tmove, like the construction
restrooms just stay therethrough the weekends.
So you still have to havedifferent restrooms for the We
do weekend events.
Yep.

(21:46):
Yep.
We have a different set ofrestrooms that we use for
events.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
So we've just gradually, uh,hired, um, fairly early on,
hired a young guy to do sales.
That was very, really helpful.
Yep.
Um, and then just over a yearago, um, hired a guy named Matt
that has just been dynamite.

(22:06):
He actually moved his familyhere from Illinois.
Oh, wow.
When he first reached out.
'cause I had an ad on Indeed andI've been interviewing, when he
first reached out, I said, Matt,man, you're, you're too far away
kind of job.
You wanna move from Illinois forYeah.
And you don't.
He's like, dude, I'm desperateto come to Colorado, please.
He actually said that.
He said, no, my wife and I havedecided we're moving.

(22:30):
We already know we're moving toFort Collins.
Yeah.
I think it'll be worth our whilefor both of us if we can talk.
This is all via email first,right?
Right.
Well then we start talking andwe bring him out and interview
and, and, um, so we hired himand he worked remote from
Illinois until late June.

(22:51):
This is starting probably May1st.
Okay.
So a couple of months.
Yep.
He was producing remotely, justworking the phones, working
emails.
So also sales, businessdevelopment kind of.
Yeah.
So he has really done, he hasdone great.
Awesome.
So we've been able to build ourteam.
Yep.
We run on EOS.
We're self implementing.

(23:11):
Although shout out to JenniferLewis, who I know has been on
here.
Hey Jennifer.
She helped us, Scott, getstarted.
Um, but um.
Yeah, that.
So we've just been, yeah, justfigure out the functions and,
and locations.
Also, I mean, the man whooriginally owned the business,
it was in this crappy littlemetal building out an alt, a

(23:34):
little sheep wool barn.
Oh gosh.
No heat, if you can imagine.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
Employees are washing toilets inthe, oh gosh.
Cold in the winter.
It was terrible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that was part of the contractwas we had to be there three
years, and so then it's justbeen a little over a year,
right.
That they moved down to nearJohnstown.
Oh, dang.
So much better.

(23:54):
Yeah.
Right off I 25.
Right.
We do a lot of work in BoulderCounty and so that cut, you
know, 45 minutes off the dropand you have to do, do you have
people that have to move allthis stuff around or do you
contract some of that out?
No, that's your teams that are,yeah, it's a rental business.
Like a, like an event rentalbusiness.
Right.
You gotta go implement all itwas smart rushing for part of
that first.

(24:15):
Right.
I'm sure we was doing all I didroutes, I did vents and Yeah.
Went in the truck.
And what, like a flatbed truckwith sides and a trailer or
what?
How do you move that stuffaround?
We actually have special builttrailers that, um, the toilets
have Oh, you can pick them upwithout tipping them over?
Kind of.
Well, you just, you kindaleverage them up, but they slide

(24:36):
into a slot.
Okay.
And then you're able to strap'emdown so we don't have to strap
all the individuals.
Oh, I see.
It's, um, they're speciallybuilt to haul porta-potties
around.
Gotcha.
Um, and then we have the servicetrucks and we had one septic
truck at the time.
We now have bought.
We've got a couple more thatwe're Oh, so we're expanding the

(24:58):
subject.
So you have to move them everytime.
You can just go suck the stuffout of'em a lot too and just
keep'em in service.
The ones that are right.
The ones that are onconstruction, on construction
sites like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Makes sense.
Okay, cool.
Pull the trucks in, pump'em out,wash'em down, refill'em and go
to the next one.
I'm gonna come back to you'causeI haven't been doing Kathy much
air time in a little bit.

(25:18):
There you go.
But uh, that's all right.
His is the bigger story becauseWell, yeah.
It's a Well, and it impacts usboth well, but, we'll, yeah.
Yeah.
But, and, uh, you do someinteresting work as well.
Yeah.
So talk to me about that.
So I, uh, while we were inCalifornia, I was licensed as a
marriage family, childcounselor.
Okay.
As I said earlier, 3000 hours ofsupervised experience.

(25:41):
So it was not an easy license toget.
And California was one of thefirst states actually Gotcha.
To do licensing.
And then, uh, we moved back toTexas when the church thing
after the church stuff Yeah.
Happened and whatever.
And we moved in with his parentsin a, what was it, 1800 square

(26:02):
foot house, three kids.
Oh, so you guys had a freshstart before?
We've had a couple of them wewe'll get back to.
I told you it was a long story,Kurt.
Um, yeah.
So we went back to Texas and soI was able to transfer my
license.
I worked in a couple ofdifferent settings and then I
had a private practice for about10 years.
Okay.

(26:23):
And got to the place, um, ouryoungest, so we have, um, two
sons and a daughter.
Okay.
So we had two kiddos that wereborn in California.
And, um, I just.
I was getting a little burnedout.
We were in a fairly small townthat was not real therapy
minded.
We were south of Austin.

(26:43):
Yeah.
Austin's kind of like FortCollins, right?
Denver, you know, a littleMargaret Granola, you know, much
more progressive.
Yeah.
Um, uh, new Braunfels, not somuch.
I love the town, loved a lot ofthe people there, but in the
years that I practiced, I had atwo drawer filing cabinet that I
had filled up and emptied twice.
Okay.

(27:03):
That's a lot of clients to see.
And I, I would call it emotionalvomiting.
I, it's like people would comein and just, you know, and I, I
tend to be very solutionfocused.
Um, my training is in systemstraining, so helping people
understand that, you know, likeif it's a relationship issue,
they can make changes some ofthe things that are going bad in

(27:25):
your life.
Or your fault?
Well, and or nothing changes.
Oh, yeah.
Well, not your fault.
I mean, we're always, you know,everyone adds to the dance, I
would say.
Sure.
But, um, but a lot of times,like the longer I went on, I
became more and more specializedin working with couples and
marriage and did a lot ofpostgraduate work and

(27:45):
supervision specifically forthat, because it's a little bit
of a different animal workingwith couples.
And I find that a lot oftherapists are like, oh, I do
everything.
I see kids.
I see teens, I see couples.
And I was like, well, not any ofit.
Well, maybe, but Right.
Because really working withcouples is just, it's a
different, it's all different.
Really experienced, honestly,dynamic.
I haven't, like, I'veexperienced Yeah.

(28:06):
Marriage counseling.
Yeah.
Quote unquote by somebody thatalso does individual counseling.
Yes.
Yes.
But, and you can do, I've never,never experienced one-on-one
that I, I think Jill's alwaysbeen there, so maybe I should
get some one-on-one stuff.
Fix me up better.
I don't know.
So make you say sometimes that'shelpful, you know?
Um.
But anyway, so yeah.

(28:27):
So you were becoming aspecialist in this couple area?
So I couple, so I specializedmore, I mean, I, going all the
way back to my graduate school,I did my, um, internship at the
Child study center in Fort, uh,Fort Worth, not Fort Collins.
Um, so I started with childrenand families and I wanted to do
more marriage stuff, but, um, Iremember a speaker at a

(28:48):
conference saying that, um, ifyou're going to work with
couples, you needed to be atleast 30 years old.
And I was like, what do theyknow?
I know everything.
Well, there was a lot oflearning I needed, you know, and
just life experience.
And so, um, I just, and I, I'vealways been interested in
business.
Like if I had my education to doover, I would probably have at

(29:13):
least minored in businessknowing that I wanted to work
for myself.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, um.
So anyway, I just, I was kind ofgetting bored.
Yeah.
And I, I decided to close myprivate practice when our
youngest was in high school and,um, thought I would do some
business coaching.

(29:34):
By that point, mark had starteda's care, which was an assisted
living for people withAlzheimer's.
And you figured you werecoaching him up and might as
well, uh, like work on someother hard projects.
Actually, I asked her at somepoint as we were growing, I
said, sweetheart, is there somesort of assessment we can use to

(29:55):
help us in our hiring and do abetter job with hiring?
And that kind of led her downthe path of learning from that
and learning the disc.
And, um, so yeah, so we, I, wehaven't, I don't know if you're
gonna come back to when hestarted AL'S Care, but Yeah, I
think we will, but Okay.
Um, or do you want, should we goback to right now?

(30:17):
Well, this is a whole differentchapter, kind of, but it kind of
intersects with the point that Iam at, of going into the
business coaching.
I didn't have my privatepractice any longer.
Um, we were empty nesters atthat point, and you were
probably eight years, youstarted alls care in 98.
Mm-hmm.

(30:38):
And so it was probably 20 11, 2012.
I think that, man, it was just,we had several locations and it,
it had really taken a toll on usand we didn't know it.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I think that's thechallenge.
And so I'm tying this in withthe work that I do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause I wasn't actively, um,providing therapy anymore.

(31:00):
I still had, I had paused mylicense.
Yep, yep.
Which Texas allowed at the time,with the understanding I could
come back and get it at somepoints.
And you guys got kind of wrappedup in growing this alls care.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Organization.
Yeah.
Kind of.
I consulted, I worked in thebusiness very briefly, decided
that was not a good place for meto be, but, um, we hit a really

(31:22):
low point in our marriage.
Yeah.
Um, we, uh, so kind of as youworked kind of more together on
the business, you let the, therelationship kind of Well, I
think it was more just the to,because every time we opened a
new location, it was like astartup all over again.
And we had, what, 12 at somepoint.

(31:43):
Mm-hmm.
And every one of those Mark wasraising money, new investors.
Oh, wow.
And, you know, and it was up andit was down, and it was up and
it was down.
And we, we just never, we had ahard time.
I'm looking at your book,traction.
We had a hard time gettingtraction and just stability.
Hmm.
Um.

(32:04):
Um, 2018, the housing crisis,you know, that hit us
eventually, not immediately, butwe realized.
I remember you saying at somepoint, you know, admissions were
down 2008.
Yeah, yeah.
2008.
Sorry.
Sorry Ron.
So I think what I might have todo is, um, to set the stage on
why you do what you do.

(32:24):
Now, we might have to go throughthat part of the journey mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Of all's care.
Yeah.
We do that.
So let's, so why don't you bringme back into your career path.
So you, you come back kind of alittle bit.
Uh, I don't know.
When did depressed you, you'vehad some humble pie.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I, I like to tellpeople it took me 37 years to

(32:45):
have humble pie, and then it wasall that was on the menu for
about five years, you know?
Um, but yeah.
You were feeling in a toughplace.
You'd been kind of betrayed bythis narcissist dude, after
failing at the church lunch andYeah.
So what do you do when you're,you?
Well, that's what I was tryingto figure out, right?
We moved back to Texas, um,moved in with mom.
Your mom and dad moved in withmy mom and dad.

(33:07):
Your dad?
Yeah.
With kids.
Um, God bless em.
You love them?
Do what?
Do you love them?
His mom and dad?
I do.
I, well, that's after, evenafter that.
I love his parents.
Yes.
His dad has passed, but his momis still with us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I was, yeah, I was justreally kind of.
Unmoored.
Um, I, I really didn't know whatwas gonna be next.

(33:29):
Yeah.
I couldn't imagine.
I mean, I grew up in a ministryfamily.
Right.
I had no other framework reallyto consider.
Yeah.
Um, but I had a friend aroundthe corner from where we lived,
his son and, and Ryan, our sonthat lives here, um, we're
playing T-Ball together.
Okay.
He taught at, um, a universityin San Marcos, just, just north

(33:51):
of us, Texas State now.
Yep, yep, yep.
Um, we were running together onemorning and he said, you know, I
don't know why hadn't thoughtabout this before, but if you've
already got a degree, we have aprogram within health
administration.
You can take a couple ofclasses, do an internship, and
become a nursing homeadministrator.
Hmm.
I literally said, I've alwaysliked old people.

(34:14):
Right.
I went and met with the twowomen that ran the program, went
and did that.
Interesting.
And headed down the path.
And became a nursing homeadministrator.
That's interesting.
One of my, one of my bestcollege friends, probably still
is a nursing home administrator.
I haven't seen him in a fewyears, but his family has kind
of built a collection of nursinghomes and things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not too different from your ownexperience in some ways.

(34:36):
Perhaps all those years were allde novos.
Yeah.
So anyway, so you become anursing home administrator.
Yeah.
So I spent about, um, I was, Iwas an administrator six or
seven years.
Very first home I, I went to,was a small home south San
Antonio.
It's an hour and 15 minute drivefrom our house.

(34:56):
Okay.
Um, but they were gonna convertit to an all Alzheimer's nursing
facility.
Okay.
So I went in, did that, walkedthrough the construction, got it
filled up and was twirling mythumbs and bored.
Okay.
And so I got an opportunity togo into San Antonio to a home
that was, I.
Yeah, just a mess.

(35:17):
Um, so turn that around.
Open an Alzheimer's unit inthere opened.
So it's basically the executivefor this Yep.
Center in each case, right?
Correct.
Like the CEO of that facility?
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
Um, that one we opened, uh,hospice unit to care for AIDS
patients.
Oh, wow.
This was in, uh.
Mid nineties.

(35:38):
Yeah.
Johnson years.
So just kind of at the height.
Yeah, exactly.
Sorry, that's kind of rude, butOh yeah.
So kind of like broughtawareness to the public in that
space.
It did.
Yeah, it did.
Absolutely.
Um, yeah, went through severalof those and had the good
fortune to work for a guy whohad owned his own business.
Okay.

(35:58):
And because these are all bigcorporations that you were
working for time, these bigcorporations.
I got fired from one of'em.
When they got bought out, it wasjust, why'd you get fired?
It was just to change.
They fired everyone.
I was the last one to go.
Right.
But all the administrators,well, there's so many arbitrary
decisions when you come from bigcorporate like that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I think there were, Ithink that happened twice.

(36:19):
It was a real time ofconsolidation.
Mm-hmm.
In the nursing home industry.
Yeah.
It was not, not fun.
And I realized at some point Irealized, okay, this corporate
thing doesn't really work forme.
Yeah.
But I didn't know what else todo until I met, um, a guy named
Ed Harmon who had owned his own.
Nursing home company.
Okay.
In Georgia.

(36:39):
Um, he actually looked like, um,Ted Turner.
Okay.
Interesting guy.
But he said, look, you can raisemoney.
It's not that hard.
And assisted living was juststarting to take off.
Yep, yep.
So, uh, good friend there inTexas, um, partnered with me and

(37:00):
we bought an old house Yep.
And converted it and put insprinklers, did everything to
get it licensed Yep.
To start taking care of peoplewith Alzheimer's.
Yeah.
Put six or 10 or whatever.
Yeah.
Started out, I think with 10, weended up at about 15 or 16.
Okay.
Bought another old house inanother town, did the same
thing.
Then we started building purposebuilt and we had.

(37:23):
Um, at our height we had about,I think we had six locations.
And you rounded up investors ineach of these cases too, because
you were Yeah.
Rice money recovering pastor,plant guy.
Right.
But you were a nursing homeadministrator for a while, so
that was Yeah.
But all those peanuts were goingto like start retirement account
and pay these three anklebiters.
Yeah.

(37:43):
Right, right.
Yeah.
And, but I did in the nursinghome business, I did realize
that business made sense to me.
Mm-hmm.
I'd never taken, I got adistinctive around it.
It was, yeah.
Um, yeah.
So built that business over anumber of years, acquired a, a
little, um, assisted living, um,then raised some money from some

(38:07):
guys, brought in a guy that,this was before EOS days.
Okay.
So instead of me, a visionary,an EOS speak.
Yep.
Um, identifying and hiring anintegrator.
I didn't, I, I sort ofunderstood that, but I brought
in a guy actually to replace meas a visionary.

(38:29):
Yep.
But I wanted him to actually bean operator also.
Yep.
Um, so that just didn't endwell.
Um, and this is cir me.
Do I now?
Yeah.
What time, what, when was thisalong your journey?
What?
Uh, by that time it was probably2017 or so.
Okay.
So that's the long, so you'rejust kind of growing this thing

(38:51):
from the thing mid ninetiesbasically.
Yep.
Um, and then you're like, it'sgot be a pretty big thing and my
kids are getting older and Iwanna spend more time with them
and I don't wanna do all thethings anymore.
Well, they were.
I mean, when, when he startedit, we had one in high school,
middle school and elementary.
Yeah.
Right.
So we were in the middle of thebusiest years of child raising.

(39:14):
Yeah, sure.
All the baseball and I hadstarted my private practice.
Yeah.
And we thought it'd be a greatidea to start a business.
We're like, what could possiblygo wrong?
Yeah.
A little house did not know whatwe did not know.
And like I said, neither of ushad any kind of experience with
entrepreneurship.
What goes into it, raisingmoney, all of that.
It was just, well, you must havebuilt some of that though.

(39:35):
Like even just pitching toinvestors and stuff.
Right.
Like understanding yourfinances.
I, I learned it on the fly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Read, read a lot.
Mm-hmm.
Um, this was before Traction waspublished.
Sure.
Um, and just tried to, but Ididn't know any other
entrepreneurs, which wasinteresting.
So this will circle backeventually to the peer.

(39:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The peer board kind of a thing.
But, um, so there were twosignificant events during that.
Period with Alls Care one, uh,when I was asking Kathy, okay,
how do we, how do we, are theresome assessments that we can use
to hire and all of that?
Yep.
So she introduced the disc, wentand got training.

(40:18):
Um, and when I took the disc, weall took it, everyone in the
team.
So you high, high D Oh man.
A hundred percent.
Uh, low C.
Yeah, absolutely.
My d my C hardly shows up.
It's like, is it, is there stilla C down there?
Um, yeah.

(40:38):
And, but what was so significantabout that for me is I really
thought there was somethingwrong with me.
'cause I couldn't just stickwith a job like everyone else I
knew.
Yeah.
You know, I had all thesefriends who had jobs, who had
careers, and my, I would askmyself, why can't I just be.

(41:03):
Happy with getting a job goingto work every day.
I, I really thought there wassomething wrong with me.
Did Kathy ask you that too?
And sometimes, yeah.
It was very frustrating for me,like why I think there was some
embarrassment, um, on my partwhen Oh yeah, we're not taking a
vacation because, you know, wejust opened a new facility and

(41:24):
Right.
And I'm doing the open house andI'm cooking all the food for it.
Right.
You know, doing the gardeningWell in socioeconomically you're
doing pretty good.
Not really.
Not really.
I, I mean eventually, but yourcircles are a little bit, at
least in those places wherepeople are getting vacations and
they're sending Oh yes.
All of our peers.
All of our peers, and as Marksaid, we didn't really, we did

(41:44):
not have a community of peoplewho were also entrepreneurs who
would get that journey.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So a lot of it we just kept toourselves, but I think the years
of.
Of that, you know, things wouldbe better.
Then we'd open a new one or we'dhave trouble hiring, or there
were somebody quit on youinterview wreck.
There was so many stories of,you know, just, you know, it,

(42:09):
it's heavy, um, uh, labor, youknow?
Yeah.
And so you've got a lot ofhourly people who are providing
the care and a lot of'em really,really wonderful people.
But you also have just peoplethat are different, but lot of
'em want a different job.
Uh, a lot of'em can't doanything else or can't get a
different job.

(42:30):
Right.
And so they're, they're nothappily, not reliably, not
exactly.
Like either they'd rather besomeone else or, yeah.
They can't get anything better.
Yeah.
The other side of that coin isthat, I mean, we took care of
Kathy's mom for four yearsmm-hmm.
In one of our buildings there inNew Braunfels.
Right.

(42:50):
We took care of the man who wasmy high school principal.
Yeah.
And, uh, another man who themajor Boulevard in New Braunfels
was named after.
You still like old people?
I can tell.
I do, I do, but I, that was themost stressful thing I've done
in my entire life.
Yeah.
Was, and it went on for a longtime.
It went on for a long time.
Oh, so you never, like you builta pretty big organization out of

(43:11):
it?
When, when I kind of steppedback we had 300, 350 employees.
Okay.
Um, and it was still how manylocations?
You know, that was probably aeight or 10 locations.
And so you had, this would beCEO that was supposed to be like
Mark, but do more operationsstuff too?

(43:35):
Kind of, yeah.
Yeah.
It was not a good choice.
Yeah.
So it, it just led down a pathof kind of losing control and,
but before all of that, theother significant event.
Was in around 2010, I think.
I think that was after westarted doing the disc.
The disc was the time that Isaid, oh, this is not that.

(43:59):
There's something wrong with me.
This is actually who I am.
Right.
This is how God made me.
Yeah.
This is, all of a sudden allthese things started to make
more sense.
Yep.
But the intensity, the pressure,the stress of what we were
doing, Kathy calls at the time,we lost, almost lost our
footing.
We were so stressed.

(44:21):
We'd opened, I don't know,building number eight or
something at this time.
And, um, we, we were in ourkitchen and, um, Kathy said to
me, I think maybe, maybe weought to take a break from one

(44:45):
another.
Oh.
And I, you know, I still, itstill is, uh, it's still tough
to think about.
Um, but when she said that Ijust came apart and just started
weeping, you're like, what areyou about Much more than I am

(45:05):
now.
But just started weeping and,and just sank down on the floor.
And Kathy, um, from, uh,probably the, the same heart,
maybe a different place in theheart, just came over and sat
down and put her arms around me.

(45:26):
And, and if somebody had walkedin that room, you would've
thought somebody had died.
You would've thought Sarah died.
It was just, just sob stir builtyears of, yeah.
Of not even facing it.
Yeah.
'cause there wasn't anything badgoing on.
We were just empty.
There was just nothing left andwe didn't really, so you weren't
realize it like.
You hadn't got into littlehabits of digging on each other

(45:48):
or being, you know, passiveaggressive or?
No, I think it was, it was some,some financial stuff.
Couples usually do stuff forsure.
Was, was financial.
There was probably someimpatience and I mean, being a d
you know, yeah.
I mean, I've learned this now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That red color.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, that first emotionis anger.

(46:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, which I neverunderstood until that time.
Hmm.
Um, the really interesting thingis it, go ahead.
In that circumstance was.
Anger at yourself?
Oh yeah, mostly.
Mostly just impatient.
Just like he would just have areally short fuse never directed
at me.
Okay, gotcha.

(46:31):
Yeah.
But that was part of your datapoints was like, well, I was
always picking up.
Suddenly over the last few yearsI'm living with this guy that's
sometimes sp into anger andthat's.
Or even if it's not at me, it'sstill, you know, yucky.
I'm, I'm picking up a lot ofpieces like Yep.
His plate was overflowing.
Yep.
And so, especially when the kidswere at home, I'm running my

(46:52):
business.
Right.
I'm helping in that business andI'm running a family.
Right.
And I'm running on empty.
Right.
Right.
And you know, I mean we alwaysdid anniversary trips and that
sort of thing, but we just, wereally hit a point that was
just, well, you weren't runningan efficient enough, profitable
enough business to get the helpyou needed.
Right.
Yeah.

(47:12):
Right.
And in some respects, and we'rejust kind of shouldering all
that.
Yeah.
And I didn't understand fullywhat I needed.
I keep for our podcastlisteners, I keep pointing to
the book track.
Yeah.
It's underneath the table.
Down here on the table.
Happens to be.
Yeah.
It's been sitting there for afew months.
But Uhhuh, so one of theinteresting things about that
particular event is someone hadtold me about an organization
called C 12.

(47:33):
Mm.
Yeah.
I was scheduled to go to a C 12meeting for the very first time
the next day.
Hmm.
And I was thinking, I, I'm amess.
I can't go do this.
And I, I don't remember if yousaid I should go, if I, I gotta
quit being so sinful before I goto church.
It's basically the same thing.
Yeah, exactly.
Straighten up and fly.
Right.
And I may have reached out tothe guy that led it and said,

(47:54):
man, I'm, I don't think I cango.
And he said, no, I think youreally need to.
Hmm.
So I went the next day andwalked into this room and it
was, it's all men in thisparticular group.
I sat at a table for the firsttime and they go through and
they do this balance wheel isthe very first thing that they
do.
Okay.

(48:14):
And it's physical, mental,spiritual, family, business, you
know, just kind of what's thebalance in your life?
And so I just said, well, I'mgonna be honest.
And, and then we go around andtalk about it.
And again, I said, I've gotnothing to lose.
I don't know these guys.
Right.

(48:35):
And so I just.
Put it out there and the leaderof the group said, man, you're a
poster child for Right.
For what we do here.
And all the other guys werelike, yeah, we've been there.
Yeah.
Or we are there.
And Kathy says that when I camehome that evening, um, she said

(48:55):
it was like Mark was back.
You know, you're, you were like,oh wow.
There's other men that haveexperienced things.
Kind of like what I've beenexperiencing.
Yeah.
Other entrepreneurs, you know,company builders that were in
the same place.
So I was in that group foralmost five years.

(49:17):
Okay.
Man, it was powerful.
Mm-hmm.
Just powerful.
And you had known for some timeand were looking for some sort
of a peer group, something theyweren't as prolific, I think
then as.
They seem to be now.
Yeah, no, it's definitely wasmuch more secret society thing.
Secret society.
Yeah.

(49:37):
When Loco started here locally,it was kind of the only game in
town virtually doing that.
But now we've got definitelymore people doing it.
Yeah.
Or you gotta be at a, includingclub or whatever certain, you
know, income level.
Right.
Right.
To be able to qualify.
So there's these, you know, inthis instance years, which was
what brought us to what became apassion for me because we kind

(49:59):
of looked around and was like,we didn't find resources for
couples like us.
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We could have, you know, peoplehave asked me, well, couldn't
you have gone to therapy?
I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But would they have understood,so you started kind of imagining
this, uh, yeah.
Entrepreneurial couples coachingkind of thing.
Yeah.
I'm I even if you weren't doingit yet?
Yeah.
Well at that point officially Ihad a, I started a website.

(50:22):
Okay.
I wrote blog posts with articlesabout, you know, how to
communicate better.
Yeah, yeah.
Which applied up.
You know, all couples, as Markstarts to get his shit together
in parts by C 12, you're like,oh, lemme write about this.
Like, he's figuring some stuffout.
It must be, I must be fixing it.
That's exactly what, well, it's,it's like, it's like, you know

(50:44):
the doctor that you know, you, Imean, you can't fix your own,
fix your own sick mind kind of.
Yeah, no, totally.
As people will say, but, but youcan still learn from that
experience in some ways, but Ithink, yeah.
Yeah.
You know, we began to put intopractice things that I had been
teaching couples.
Things I knew to do, but weweren't.
And part of it was you kind ofneed two willing participants.

(51:04):
And I think Mark realized whatan empty place we were at.
Yeah.
I, and you know, he starts goingto see 12, I start getting notes
written on my mirror withlipstick.
I'm like, who are you and whathave you done with my arms?
Right.
So we, I mean, I think becauseof the years we had as a
foundation Yeah.
We found our footing fairlyquickly.

(51:25):
Yeah.
And really became much moreintentional, which is kind of
what, you know, began toculminate in, in.
Even developing this passion,um, because I launched Loadstar
really just two years ago as, asan official, like, yeah, I am
gonna make this official.

(51:45):
And But you were already that,like when you and I first met,
which was Yeah.
Well before Mark and I met.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You were already in that space.
Well, that was two years ago.
Yeah.
Is that all?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dang.
Yeah.
Time flies.
I know.
When you're having fun.
One of the things that westarted doing about that time
too, is we, we got to know abunch of young couples,
primarily, I think through ourchurch, most of whom were

(52:09):
entrepreneurs.
Okay.
And so we started doing thesedinners about once a month, I
think.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
And we would, I'd invite 10 or12.
We had a big farm table and.
So usually there would be maybefive or six couples that would
make it, each time.
Kathy would generally throw aquestion or two out there.
We'd do kind of a potluckdinner.

(52:31):
Sometimes she'd just cookdinner.
I, which she's an amazing cook.
Um, but those were really,really great times of just
hanging out together and beingable to encourage these couples
and love on them, which thenhelped us.
Hmm.
It became a very mutual, itwasn't a, yeah, it started as

(52:51):
kind of a, let you know, I don'tthink we said let's mentor them,
but we just, we saw thesecouples that were, you know, at
various stages in business.
Right.
We opened it up really to, well,it takes a lot of trust.
You know, and sometimes that'sfrom the, the wife and sometimes
it's from the husband.
Like, I've met a number ofentrepreneurial families where
the wife is the entrepreneur andthe husband has a stable tech

(53:15):
job with the health insuranceplan and stuff.
And it takes a lot of trust fromhim too.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
Either, either way.
Yeah.
Um, it's in a later chapter likeyou guys are, where you don't
have like kids that need fedevery week, thank goodness.
Yeah.
Even every day.
Some of'em need fed every day.

(53:35):
These kids.
Imagine that.
Imagine that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just fed you yesterday.
Right.
But, but it really does matterto have kind of a, you know, a
sounding board, a, a place, acommunity.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, yeah.
So you, so you were in this.

(53:58):
This peer advisory, when youhired this not quite right fit,
did they warn you?
Yeah.
And you did it anyway, or no?
No.
No.
Okay.
Alright.
But I think part of the reasonwas that I, I actually was in
this mode of trying to replacemyself.
Right.
And I mean, literally CEOS youwanted to just a, wanted like

(54:18):
retire.
I wanted to semi-retire.
Yeah.
Right, right.
And go do some other stuff.
Right.
And maybe start a church orsomething.
Nope.
Didn't wanna do that again.
Nope.
Um, but EOS had just beenwritten in, published in 2012.
Right.
So it was not, didn't hit yourradar yet.
It really didn't hit our radar.
Yeah.

(54:38):
I don't even remember of hearingabout it until much, much later.
And C 12, like loco, likeVistage, like none of them are
really.
Like they don't have like theprocess or the system
necessarily.
Like a, an EOS kind of, yeah.
At least most of them subjectsto do or you know.
Yeah.
You know, most of them now, Ithink CC 12, much like loco,

(55:01):
much like Vistage, they reallyembrace EOS as a really good
Yeah.
Operating system.
A good basic standard system.
If you don't have nothing, youdon't have anything, definitely
put this in there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can go down this, you canstrap stuff on if you want or
make some changes, whatever.
Right.
You know, we're not kind of anexclusive, but Yeah.
Right, right.
So, so you grab a EOS along thejourney or did you only learn

(55:23):
about that later?
After this?
Much later.
I think I, okay.
It was after we moved here.
Yeah.
Oh, is that right?
So it's been within the lastfour years.
Four years.
Mm-hmm.
So let's flash us back to this.
You, you hired Mark Junior.
It didn't like, it didn't catchtraction'cause it wasn't the
right person starts with and.

(55:44):
And and trouble's comingprobably.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Trouble is coming sometimes Ithink when you, part of my
experience was that I hiredsomeone who wanted to be where I
was.
He didn't wanna pay the priceand do the reps that I had done.
He saw, saw your tax bracket anduh, yeah.

(56:05):
A few other things about yourlife.
Your pretty wife with anaturally curly heart.
Exactly.
And he wanted that.
Yeah.
You know, maybe not her, nother, but so yeah.
Yeah.
He just was not paying attentionto really the details of running
the business and looking back.
He was just, he was a longperson.

(56:27):
The long seat you to, eventhough it was all your money,
all your stuff.
Yeah.
You, you still, you did it, butbegrudgingly on some of those
detail work probably'cause ofthe visionary type thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I would say I am avisionary with more of a.
I've got a more of anoperational bent.
Okay.
Yeah.
A lot of visionaries will havemore of a sales bent.
Yep.
Yep.

(56:47):
Um, so that's mine.
Yep, yep.
Um, and yeah, so there was somestruggles.
We brought in some investorswhen it became clear that he was
not the one that needed to beleading the company, then it was
a matter of buying him out.
And we were in a position wherelike it was the investor we

(57:09):
brought in ended up buying himout in the process.
The, my amount of ownershipwindow like this, and that was a
separate company.
It's a separate company.
We had started a separate, oh,some of the properties were in a
different holding company kindof thing.
So then we had the, I still hadthe alls care business over here
with my, one of my earlypartners, which leading up to

(57:32):
2020.
You know, we'd looked at sellinga couple times, just didn't
really get offers that we wereinterested in, and we just
thought, well, you know, we'rejust gonna keep running this
thing.
Yeah.
It does well, makes us a nice22%.
Makes us profit margin.
Yeah.
And has a pretty stable,provides a nice living for us,
so, yep.

(57:52):
And then COVID.
Yeah.
And COVID came along and we have16 bed memory care units that we
operate in several locationswhen, and people regularly are
passing away.
Sure.
In normal times.
And then during COVID, you know,our, our caregivers were in

(58:15):
their FaceTiming with familiesas their loved one would pass
away.
Sure.
Because they couldn't come in asfamilies.
Yep.
We couldn't move people induring about a seven month
period.
Totally shut down.
Totally shut down.
Wow.
No new patients.
No new patients.
Oh, no shit.
And so it just went down, down,down.
Then once it kind of opened,opened back up.
What did the people back thatneeded your services too?

(58:37):
They stayed home.
They stayed home.
They just died at home.
Miserable kind of.
Yeah.
With no support.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, at least their loved oneswere there too.
Locked up in They were withtheir families.
Yeah.
But sorry.
That's rude.
But No, and anyway, I rememberyou saying the admissions you
did get, like they would die amonth later.
So families waited just as long,as much, much longer as we So

(58:57):
your turnover was super rapid.
Yeah.
Low.
The case intake.
Yeah.
We became more of a hospice.
You know, after that no amountof marketing can fix that
problem.
No.
Right.
And the fear, you know, in thatfirst, that year or so.
Yeah.
The fear that families had that,well, even if it's open now and

(59:18):
I move mom in, what if it closesup again?
Right.
Might as well.
I can't in the basement.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dang.
And then to, to get people tocome off of unemployment.
As caregivers, right?
Yeah.
Your labor supply goes payroll,very minimal.
Up about 30%.
Dang.
Just like that.
Multiple factors that, so inwhat, like a 12 month span?
You're bankrupt, kind of, or Wewere, we were at the place,

(59:42):
yeah.
Where we were nearly, we wereputting money into it.
Okay.
We got an offer though.
Okay.
At that time.
And we basically ended upselling it to a guy that, uh, we
basically sold what was left.
Our, the real estate partnersdid well, we got a little bit of
money, had an operating companyand all these real estate
partners.
Right.
So you squared up with yourinvestors mostly.

(01:00:05):
Mm-hmm.
We did all our investors.
Yeah.
Did pretty well, huh?
And we were left with, uh, thatwas our retirement plan, you
know.
What was that like, Kathy?
Ooh.
Like you're, I have to think tosome extent.
You're like, here we are again.
Yeah.
It was, I will say.

(01:00:27):
So we moved here to FortCollins.
Well, we live in Timnath, um,December of 2020.
And so it was that next year of2021, that things just really,
you know.
Mm-hmm.
So it was, um, oh, so you werealready here?
Yeah, we were here.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
We were here when it actually,like, you know, just shut down.

(01:00:47):
Um, it, it was hard.
It was probably the hardest timeof our lives.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because we're not springchickens.
I mean, do the math.
I'm 45 years married.
Right.
You know, and so Yeah.
Most of our peers are retiringand we're like, we're starting
again.
Yeah.
So it's, it's been, um, it, ithas been rough.

(01:01:08):
And so in the work that I do, Iam just beating the drum with
people to say, pay attention toyour relationship because the
business may or may not make it.
Yeah.
You know, and, um, you mightbuild a great business like
Steve Jobs.
I've got Apple, everything.
I'm so grateful for what he did.

(01:01:29):
Yeah.
But his family was a mess whenhe died.
Right.
You know?
Right.
So really trying to help peoplethink about,'cause I think so
often entrepreneurs especially,'cause I, I get a lot of people
that are like, well why, whyentrepreneurs?
Why, you know, why is that anydifferent?
And I was like, if you know, youknow, and anybody listening to
this totally will know exactlywhat I mean.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I mean there are levels ofrisk, a wide range, I would say,

(01:01:54):
of levels of risk, right.
I mean to sure.
To do something where I'm insales and maybe I have a down
month or something, but to be ina position like this where we
had 300 employees and there wasnever one pay period.
When other, when employees didnot get paid, we skipped a
number of those.
Sure.
Paychecks, you know, and, um, soit's just, there's, the bigger

(01:02:17):
it is, the more risk there isand, and you know, and you have
to get that, that traction thatMark often talked about.
Um, and I think this is part ofwhat got us to that low point
back in 20 12, 20 11, somewherein there he used the analogy of
it felt like pushing a hugeball, just trying to get one

(01:02:40):
revolution to get some momentum.
But then, you know, we'd openanother place and it was like,
you know, when one location wasdown, another one had to carry
the weight of that.
So it was always, this feltlike, um, uh, whack-a-mole.
Yeah, you hit one area for sure.
And another one.
So I, I think that, um, it's soimportant, and that's part of

(01:03:04):
what I've done, is develop.
And I give away a lot of stuff.
I mean, if anybody isinterested, you can go to my
website, kathy rushing.com andI, I give away a good number of
tools to like, I just recentlydid a um, 30 minute weekly
marriage check-in template.
Oh, that helps couples that.
I'm like, I wish we'd been doingthis a little more

(01:03:26):
intentionally.
Yeah.
Would've been helpful.
Especially when we had kidslike, you know, it's just a way
of touching base with all themajor areas of the week.
Like if you have pets, likewho's taking'em to dog daycare
or Totally.
Ellie has a vet appointmentwho's doing that?
You know, Jill gives Tucker hismeds.
Unless she's not available, thenI have to remember exactly.
You have to be able tocoordinate that.

(01:03:47):
And we did it, but it tended tobe on the fly, and I think a lot
of the time I felt like I wascarrying.
Mm-hmm.
The bigger burden at times,which well,'cause a lot of times
that's, especially in anentrepreneurial marriage, the
visionary is there and he's notthe detailed person.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
You know, so basically your jobas the helper is make sure Mark

(01:04:08):
doesn't forget anything.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's important for both of us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which, you know, let to, well,it feels like you've been
stronger, like despite this kindof flame out with the, with the
organization, if you will, and,and, and restart refresh.
It feels like to me, maybe I'mwrong, but that your

(01:04:29):
relationship is evenstrengthened through that.
Yeah.
Well I think that fresh restartagain, we'll go back to the
friendship.
It's like I still like who heis.
We still like spending timetogether.
Yeah.
We have.
You know, this family that we,we love the family that we've
raised.
Sure.
We love our adult children, youknow, and now we have a little

(01:04:50):
grandson and we have a miraclelittle granddaughter on the way
too.
Oh, congratulations.
Yeah.
She never expected.
Um, so, um, you know, lifethrows things in.
You can't plan for all of it,and there is no guarantee,
whether it's health issues orbusiness issues, but you better

(01:05:11):
be solid.
Yeah.
Because life is gonna throwstuff at you.
Yeah.
And you can, you know, the, thechoices ares in how we respond.
And so, but I think, you know,not unlike, I don't wanna liken
it to losing a child, becausethat I think is probably one of
the hardest things ever.
And we've had a few friendswho've lost children.

(01:05:33):
But what I know from a therapyperspective is that couples
who've lost a child, there's apretty high percentage that.
Divorce because they cannotcomfort each other.
Yeah.
And they just feel so alone inthat journey.
Mm-hmm.
So that would be the closest Icould come to, to losing the
business.
Yeah.
Was it, it was a real griefprocess.

(01:05:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there are times when itstill hits me, not like it did
before, but I focus ongratitude.
I have a spiritual life that,um, and I got really regular
with yoga and just reallycentering and grounding myself.
Um, we both did some therapy.

(01:06:16):
Mm-hmm.
Um, thankful for wisecounselors.
Yeah.
Um, who kind of helped carry usand some dear friends who Yeah.
Um, really have carried us attimes when, um, you know, when
it was hard.
Sure.
And, um, I.
We have hope.
We're grateful that we have theminds.

(01:06:37):
Our minds are still pretty sharpas Aggies.
I don't very, I would say, Idon't know if your listeners
know about Texas and a and m,but you know, in Texas they tell
Aggie jokes all the time.
Jokes.
And so we used to say, you know,together, we had a whole brain,
I'd say together, now we havemaybe a quarter of a brain.
Oh, hardly, hardly whole brains.

(01:06:59):
What, what, like where do youthink you're going from here,
mark?
Like what do you wanna run thisbusiness for the next five
years?
Grow it, you know, double ittwice more, three times more,
and then find a buyer orprofessional management so you
can just kind of, uh, be theboardroom guy or like, what's
your, is there an exit?
Thoughts?

(01:07:19):
Yeah.
There, there will need to be anexit at some point.
Right?
Um, I actually started doingsome coaching this last year and
in the process ended up with,uh.
A young guy that I was coachingthat bought a business here.
Okay.
He ended up in a place where hesaid, this is not really, this
is not the right role for me torun this.

(01:07:41):
He my business.
Okay.
So I actually have stepped in,so I'm running two businesses
now.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
And what's the other business?
Is that Summit Cabinet Coatings?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh, refinish.
Familiar with the companyactually.
Yep.
Uh, Jen and Jen and Jim were thefounders.
Jim.
Yep.
Yep, yep.
So a guy named Jeremy bought it,uh, two years ago.

(01:08:02):
Okay.
Yep.
Yep.
Got it.
So I am the CEO of that one aswell.
Okay.
And he and I were talking today,and Kathy and I have been
talking, I mean, I've alwayssaid, I don't ever expect to
just stop, but I think three tofive years from now, I can't
work like this.
You know, I'll be.
In my early seventies and soit'll be time to really, yeah.

(01:08:24):
Oh dang.
I guess 45 years married meansyou're pretty damn old.
You know?
I was assuming you got marriedwhen you were 13 or something.
I don't know.
No, we married at birth.
No, we're, we're pretty damnold.
And, uh, so, um, so yeah.
Continue to grow'cause I don'tknow how to do anything else.
Right.
And I jokingly, sort of jokinglysay, I'm so fortunate this other

(01:08:47):
job opportunity came along.
'cause I mean, I'm just notqualified to do anything else.
So I can go run this otherbusiness, I can run'em both.
It takes the pressure off of PRSand that I don't have to have a
whole lot of, you can have asmall salary as CEO of both kind
of.
Right, right.
Interesting.
And that helps.
That helps a lot.
Yeah.
So continuing to grow PRShelping Jeremy Grow Summit.

(01:09:10):
Yeah.
And um, and you can focus on theCEO stuff and he can still be.
Business development and some ofthe other, or deliveries.
He lives in Denver, so, yeah.
Oh, interesting.
So he bought it from Yeah, yeah.
Kind of as a less involvedowner.
Yeah.
Interesting.
But we're implementing EOS inboth.
Cool.
And hopefully that's a greatrelationship for you.

(01:09:30):
It is.
Good.
Um, if you were gonna describelike, what your business, uh,
kinda outside of EOS, whichyou've given a huge commercial
for already, but what your, whatyour, your special business
sauce is, if you will, mark,like what would you say that is?

(01:09:50):
Um, the same thing would applyfor Summit, but for PRS it's
really the customer service weprovide.
Hmm.
We have some really largecompetitors here in this area.
Mm-hmm.
And we take business from'EMevery day.
Yeah.
'cause of the customer servicethat we offer, it's like the big
ones are like, you'll barely.
We'll barely know you're acustomer.

(01:10:10):
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
We have an actual human beingthat answers the phone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They love talking to Jana whenthey call.
Yeah.
She sets things up.
We just taught to, we try totake really good care of our, of
our employees, the guys that areactually out there driving the
trucks and, you know, servicingthe toilets.
I dig it.
So that we just really focus onthat service aspect of the

(01:10:35):
business.
Yeah.
And I think that's kind of asecret sauce for us.
I'm gonna shift it back to you,Kathy, one of those kind of core
questions.
Then we're gonna take a breakand we'll do some other segments
here.
Okay.
But if, if you were gonna giveone like, kind of core piece of
either advice or just reflectionpoint for the entrepreneurial
marriage mm-hmm.

(01:10:56):
Um, what, like what's the anchorof, of that?
Good relationship.
Um, I think that being able tocreate vision together mm-hmm.
Like where are we going withthis?
Yeah.
Yeah.
We kind of just evolved into it.
It was like, you know, let's dothe next step and the next step.

(01:11:17):
And we, we talked about thefuture some, but I, I think
having regularly, uh, regularlyscheduled, um, times to know
where you're going, what are,what are some decision points,
because we, we have some friendsthat, one is someone that Mark

(01:11:39):
met through EOS and not throughEOSC 12.
C 12, um, he had a business.
Board of directors kind of tookit away.
It was a really ugly thing.
So we started another businessand there are many years into it
now, and it's just, it's justnot making it, but there is no
stopping point.
And so it's becoming a realchallenge in their marriage.

(01:12:03):
And um, and I think that's thehard thing about entrepreneurs
is, um, and especially if one,like I have a fairly high risk
tolerance, I would say.
Okay.
But we've met other coupleswhere one is like, just show me
the check.
There was, there was someone onhis C 12 four, they ended up

(01:12:24):
divorcing and he shared hisstory with us later with
permission to share the story.
Um, I won't show the name.
Yeah.
Just like, where are we going?
Well, she was just like, I don'tcare what kind of stress you
have, just when's money going inthe bank?
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
And they just, you know, he feltalone.
Yep.
She felt alone.
So.
It's, it is an unusual, I mean,there's other, like military

(01:12:46):
families might share somesimilar dynamics, I suppose.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, but they also tend to havereally strong communities, so
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think find community, Hmm.
Have vision, um, have a way tobe very specific about where are
we going, what are some markersthat tell us to keep going?

(01:13:08):
Right.
And, um, and really having sometools, some strategies on my
LinkedIn, um, tag is what ifyour marriage, um, had the same
strategic attention as yourbusiness?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's an interesting thought.
Yeah.
So I think having somestrategies to make sure that you

(01:13:31):
are in touch with each other,that you are meeting each
other's needs as.
Partners first, and you know,employees or business owners or
whatever next.
Um, just keeping first thingsfirst.
I like it is really important.
Yeah.
We're gonna take a short breakand we'll be back.

(01:14:41):
And we're back.
Um, so, uh, thanks for thatfirst, uh, part of the journey
here.
Yeah.
I think what I want to talkabout now is because your kids
are how old now?
Our oldest is, this is gonnamake us feel really old.
Thanks, Kurt.
40 42.
Jeremy 42.
Next month, 42, 39, and 34.

(01:15:04):
And what do you got going on inthe grandkid department?
We have, uh, our middle son andhis wife have, uh, this Ryan.
This is Ryan.
Ryan, all right.
Mm-hmm.
Ryan and Amy.
Alright.
Uh, Ryan's a horse trainer.
Amy's a realtor.
She works with Kittle.
Okay, cool.
And, uh, they have a son rider,cutest little boy.
Oh my gosh.

(01:15:25):
I've ever seen, we're so inlove.
He is amazing.
So he is just over two.
Okay.
And then, so can we tell itYeah.
That's on, I don't know, socialmedia.
That's true.
So they, it was IVF, it was Ithink the third round of IVF.
Oh, okay.
This first one.
Yeah.
Long journey.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then, uh, in January theyshowed up at our house and, uh.

(01:15:48):
I had Kathy taken his jacket offand he had a big brother t-shirt
on.
Oh shoot.
And yeah, I'm like, is this ahand me down?
Oh, so the first one was IVS,but the second one was Oh,
natural.
Oh, natural.
Yeah.
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah.
So they're gonna have a littlegirl in.
Oh, congratulations.
Yeah, we're very excited.
We are ridiculously crazycrampy.

(01:16:10):
And your, your older son andyour daughter?
No, uh, no kids?
Nope.
Okay.
Nope.
Don't want kids.
And then our, oh, not even gonnahave any m Right.
So you got a couple, uh, a,your, your chapter facilitator,
Pete, which I don't know if youknow this even, but he's got,
uh.
Two kids only, but ninegrandkids.

(01:16:31):
Oh, wow.
So he is got a high yield kindof a environment.
Yeah.
You had three kids and you'veonly got two grandkids and no
more on the shelf.
So, uh, yeah.
You know, so it goes sometimes.
Right.
Yeah.
So that was, yeah, that's ourfamily.
That was part of the reason thatwe moved here.
We had sold our house in NewBraunfels after Hannah got
married and thinking we weregonna downsize.
We had a house in Granby thatwas just kind of our dream space

(01:16:54):
and great getaway, great placeto gather for us.
Bought it while you were makinga whole bunch of money during
with this Yes.
Paris stuff Income.
Yes.
And we just loved that place.
And, um, so when we sold thehouse in New Braunfels, couldn't
find a place, um, that wewanted.
And so we, we would stay withhis mom when we would go back.

(01:17:15):
And then it was 2019, I think,Christmas that our
daughter-in-law, who's therealtor, said, y'all ought to
look at.
You know, Fort Collins as aplace, a lot of people are
moving here and they're stillvery active.
We love to hike and mark fishesand camp.
We, we just, honestly, it usedto be a place where 25 to 35

(01:17:37):
year olds moved to, now it'smostly a place where 60 to 75
year olds move to that.
More our neighbors more.
So, yeah, we're in aneighborhood in, in Wild Wing.
Mm-hmm.
And it's primarily, yeah, ourneighborhood is an older
neighborhood.
It's like us.
Yeah, yeah.
A little bit younger, a littlebit older.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
And they're, the people likefrom, and maybe my lens is

(01:17:59):
distorted from being a part ofRotary Club and stuff.
And so I meet a lot of those 60to 75 year olds that are
following their grandkids outhere to Northern Colorado.
But like, we didn't use to seethat as much.
Now it's a really commonoccurrence.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And our daughter and her husbandare here still trying to, you
know.
Get something a little morepermanent.

(01:18:20):
It's, you know, the, the cost ofhousing is just, it's mind
boggling.
And it went up so much after wewent under contract.
Oh, right.
On the house we're in.
Yeah.
Just went up so much that year.
So, so yeah, we, we moved herewith the hope of grandchildren
and knew that we wanted to becloser.
But yeah, for our son and hiswife, it was a 13 year journey.

(01:18:42):
Oh, wow.
You know, a lot of tears, a lotof heartbreak and heartache, and
we just didn't know if it wasever gonna happen.
And, um, um, so, yeah.
Well, congratulations on, on.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Second, uh, coming.
Yeah.
We're excited.
Yeah.
Let's talk about like the, theworkforce.
Like you're kind of in a similarsituation probably with, with

(01:19:06):
PRS where you're hiring, youknow, some of your workers at
least.
Would like to have a better job.
Yep.
Um, not too dissimilar from theassisted living kind of
environment or whatever.
What do you, what do you do tofind good people for whom your
job isn't a disposable Yeah.
Thing.

(01:19:26):
We go through a lot ofinterviews.
Okay.
Um, and we go through a fairamount of turnover.
Guys primarily so far, guys whocome in, um, they just haven't
found their place yet.
We've got right now a core groupof four or five technicians

(01:19:48):
that, well, we actually have oneguy that works for us who has
worked for this company for 25years.
Oh, cool.
He is an amazing guy.
Great.
He was, he was holding it alltogether for the owner before
you bought it?
Yeah, yeah.
He really was.
He was one of two employeesdriving a truck.
Oh wow.
Um.
Just has, you know, some, agreat heart for ministry.

(01:20:12):
A great heart for all of theseguys that work for us.
And just a hard worker.
Um, his name is Cisco.
He is, he's an amazing, soCisco, yeah.
He's an amazing guy.
And so we try to pay, well, wedo, we try to provide benefits
that make sense.
Um, one of the things that Ilove and one of the things that

(01:20:35):
drives me is creatingopportunities for people to just
provide for their families.
So we're trying to build abusiness that has enough
opportunities that someone maycome in, they may start out
washing toilets in the yard, andthen get a route and maybe at
some point get their CDL or inanother way, get an opportunity

(01:20:57):
to grow, to add value andactually have a career and add
value to the company, but alsoprovide value for their
families.
Yeah.
Um.
Yeah.
So we just, we work pretty hardat that.
Um, it's, it's not easy.
Yeah.
Sometimes I want it for some ofthem more than they want it for
themselves.
Yeah.
Which that doesn't work.
It's been part of my, you know,with the Matthews house, uh,

(01:21:20):
yeah.
That journey, you know, they,they instructed their casework,
you know, you can't want it forsomebody more than they want it
for themselves or it's not gonnawork.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Same thing is true of employeessometimes.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Two years ago we could not hirepeople.
It was tough.
It was crazy.
It was tough.
Was I think the tail end.
I don't, I don't know.
We never figured out if it wasjust still the unemployment

(01:21:43):
piece, but we haven't eventouched on the other business
that we bought out in Craig, butthat one, we had more business.
We were turning away business.
Literally could not hire people.
Yeah.
Like, not even answering ads.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I, I was doing a lot of workthat summer just trying to keep
employees and here, you know,where there's a much bigger
Sure.
Um, pool and.

(01:22:06):
Oh my goodness.
It, it was, it got kind ofdepressing because some of these
people, you just don't know howthey survive.
You know?
They would come and get apaycheck and then not show up
and it's like, and they've gotsix kids at home.
Yeah.
And it's like, oh my goodness.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it does, you know, the wholeemployment labor.

(01:22:28):
Uh, sometimes when we're goingthrough, we've, we've actually
gotten to the place where we'lldo open interviews, so we'll
just, if you show up, then we'llinterview you.
Oh, wow.
Between these hours.
And we did this a couple ofweeks ago, and I came home until
Kathy, my heart was just hurtingbecause some of these just
young, like, and maybe in theirtwenties, even into their early

(01:22:50):
thirties, these guys who havejust not figured out a path for
themselves.
Maybe there's drugs involved,maybe there's something else,
some sort of something in theirbackground.
But just watching them come inand not, well really not have a
path just to be able to providefor themselves and Well, and I

(01:23:12):
suspect a lot of them don't havefamilies.
Yeah.
Either.
Some of'em probably do, but likethe way the culture has evolved
is there's like just a lot of 30something dudes that are single
and not barely looking at oreager for the prospects of being
in a relationship.
Yeah.
We, we have men that don't knowhow to become a man.

(01:23:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And my dad even talked to, to mywife and I, to me about that,
but with, with me and Jill,'cause we don't have children of
our own, so we've hostedexchange students and mm-hmm.
You know, we talked about doingIVFA lot of years ago now.
Yeah.
And I was like, I don't know,you know, I'll be 60 by the time
that little career gets out thehouse at least.
Yeah.
Um, and, um.

(01:23:55):
But like the, maybe I don'twanna say the purposelessness
Yeah.
Of it, but of not having, youknow, me and Jill, we can live
pretty modestly, like put us inthe ambulance camper with, uh,
three coolers worth of food andat least two 12 packs of beard.
We'll be happy for a while, youknow, A few days.

(01:24:16):
Yeah.
At least a few days, you know,but we don't have that, that,
that stress and that, um, yeah.
You know, encouragement of, ofworking for the next generation.
And Yeah.
In your guys' case, I guessyour, your, your grandkids have
got like, that's support systemand stuff.
You're looking more like, what'sour retirement look like?
Can we have a nice little exitso that we can travel and do

(01:24:38):
more fun things, um, in thefuture?
And it sounds like to me, likein some ways, your return to
ministry, mark, is this businessnow.
Like maybe it is eight.
Your, your AllCare business and,and whatever else wasn't quite
as ministry focused in someways.

(01:24:59):
Maybe it was.
It actually was.
It was too.
Yep.
Cool.
Um, but that is still part ofwhat's woven into your Yeah.
Not just your family history,but also your business kind of
inclinations.
Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes I will describe myselfas a former pastor and I have
several good friends who willsay the former isn't really that

(01:25:20):
accurate.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And we, I mean, just like withthe couples that we would gather
in New Braunfels and we werestill there.
Yeah.
We really love having people inour home and gathering people,
and it doesn't necessarily haveto be a religious context.
Yeah.
But there's always that justloving on people.

(01:25:42):
Mm-hmm.
Um, and we do that.
You know, I don't put a fishsymbol on the business cards for
our companies.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's pretty clear who I am,what my background is.
Um, the values, the values thatwe really promote, the values
that we live out Yeah.

(01:26:02):
Are just around really dignity.
Um, good work, family.
Yeah.
Um, you know, those importantthings that, you know.
Yeah.
That's a part of who we are.
Like Yeah.
Being a company man for PRSshould be a positive Yeah.
Thing.
Yeah.
In a way.
Absolutely.
I think that, yeah.

(01:26:22):
Yeah.
There is a, mark has talked foryears now about just the dignity
of work.
Yeah.
You know, there are a lot ofpeople that are very involved in
social causes and those are goodand there are people mm-hmm.
That need support.
We need a, you know, a, uh,what's the word?
Um, oh, like a social caresystem.
We need a safety net.

(01:26:43):
Yep.
But there, there is a.
Self-confidence and aself-assurance Sure.
That people need Yeah, yeah.
In working for a living.
Yeah.
And so not every job, you know,this would definitely qualify as
the dirty jobs and Sure, sure.
Yeah.
Mark said at one point when hewas, uh, starting at PRS, he

(01:27:07):
said, you know, all those womenthat we hired that were
caregivers before, he said, I'mhiring all their sons and their
husbands.
Right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But there is, there is, there isdignity in every single kind of
work.
I've been reading Tim Kellerrecently again.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Every good endeavor.
Yeah, I've read that.

(01:27:27):
Which I love.
I mean the, I just looking tosee if it was on my shelf.
Yeah.
The connection to John Coltraneis'cause I love jazz.
But, um, that idea that if wework, well, work hard, work with
an attitude.
That no matter what the job is,we're serving our customers,
we're serving one another.

(01:27:48):
That is, that is a part of thevalue of work.
Mm-hmm.
And it's why work is actuallyimportant.
You know, the idea that, okay,there should be a universal
basic income.
That's a nice thought.
But what you do is you take awaythat ability of a man and a
woman to work and to provide fortheir families together.

(01:28:11):
For something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And to raise their kids withsimilar values.
Yeah, yeah.
And that idea, so I was justimagine to myself, like, like
years ago, gosh, probably 12years ago or 15 years ago or
something, uh, my wife and I andsome friends went to Costa Rica
and spent eight nights there,nine days, and it was just

(01:28:33):
perfect.
Amazing.
You know, like Costa Rica tendsto be, and independently we all
came back and researched.
Can we move to Costa Rica, youknow, and how much does it take
to live here?
Yeah, exactly.
Kind of.
But, and I can imagine that lifeof being like a trust fund kid
or something and having a, Imean, if I had a$3,000 a month

(01:28:54):
stipend, me and Jill could livein Costa Rica, like easy peasy
and have a, a cook and agardener.
Right.
Um, and like, what would my lifebe in pursuit of Yeah.
You know, I'm not really clear,like to be, you know, what, what
I was just smiling about islike, it could probably be fun
as long as I like, set myself tobuilding like a bamboo jungle

(01:29:17):
gym with a gigantic slide thatcame out of the big tree over
there, you know, to do someproductive work, even if it
wasn't for money, you know, butit has to be something
productive or a, you know, anentertainment item for the kids
of the community or somevaluable thing.
Otherwise what, what, what am I?
What am I good for?
Yeah.

(01:29:38):
Yeah.
And that's one of the thingsthat I appreciate about what
you're doing with local thinktank.
Oh, yeah.
You know, is encouragingentrepreneurs who are creating
businesses, creating jobs,creating opportunities, and
hopefully seeing within that,that purpose mm-hmm.

(01:30:01):
Of doing more than just makingmoney.
Making money is great.
It's a good scorecard necessary.
It's necessary.
We need it to just be able tolive our lives.
But there's more to it thanthat.
You know?
There's more to it.
There's that, there's thatpurpose of service.
There's that purpose of, I mean,if you're a, if you're a

(01:30:23):
spiritual person, if you're afollower of Jesus, certainly
there's this idea that what Godhas created us for, hmm.
Is to be.
Active to create his creation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Imitate him.
Yeah.
So, man, he's a creator as I'mas entrepreneurs.
Wow.
I like it.
That's what we get to do.
I like it.
Which is pretty exciting.
It is true.

(01:30:44):
It's pretty fun.
Let's, let's dip into faith alittle bit because, uh, we
started kind of talking aboutyour backgrounds.
We got a, a Baptist and aMethodist here.
Um, so a Baptist and a Methodistwalked into a bar, right.
The Baptist turned around andwalked out.
Right.
He is like, shit, nobody couldsee me here.
They'd be in trouble on Sundayif somebody notices me.

(01:31:07):
Hopefully they didn't see thepastor there too often.
Um, but, but let's talk aboutyour, your kind of faith
adventures along the way.
Yeah.
Like, did you compromise rightfrom the start?
Where do you find yourselvesparticipating in the, the faith
conversation or community now?
Yeah, so I'll speak for myself.
We've been on a paralleljourney.

(01:31:28):
Not exactly the same, but Oh.
Uh, churches become.
Challenging, I would say, tofind something that kind of
resonates with us at this pointin life.
Yeah.
There, there were a couple ofsituations, churches we were in
previously where, you know,again, I don't feel seen and

(01:31:51):
valued for my gifts, which Ibelieve God gave me.
You know, so it's like, um, it'salways like they, they had to be
in tandem with Mark somehow, andI'm like, I, I just don't see it
that way.
And, um Hmm.
So you guys have had someconflict in your faith
perspectives or the churchesthat you've thought about with.

(01:32:12):
Engaging outside of us.
Yeah.
Not with us, between us, butwith more with the organization.
So you've navigated some.
Yeah.
And, and some of that growth is,I mean, I've read several books.
Um, I'm rereading Richard Rohrs,uh, falling Upward, which is
about the two halfs of life andthe first half being, creating a

(01:32:32):
container and tends to be morerule based.
And, and we need that forstructure and for boundaries and
for, you know, society beingSure.
Um, the structured civilOrganized civil.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But then there's a second halfof life where it's a more pure
relationship with God.

(01:32:52):
Like, I won't say that.
I don't need the church.
We very much want to be, I wantto be part of a community and
we've, um, I mean, part of it,since moving here, I.
Is, I, I had mentioned, youknow, another business we had
bought and there was a season ofmonths where Mark was driving a
couple of days a week to Craigto run that business and run

(01:33:16):
PRS.
And it was, we literally, Sundaywas the only day we had to.
Oh.
Just, you know, and so for me,nature has always been, um, a
way that I connect with God veryeasily.
I love being in the woods.
I love hiking, camping.
Um, so there were a lot ofSundays we would just drive up
into the mountains andespecially in the fall, you

(01:33:38):
know, it's so gorgeous here.
Um, I, for me, there's neverbeen a time when I haven't
believed in God.
Okay.
Uh, as a child.
So you're not active currentlyin a We're not in a community
right now.
Church currently.
Okay.
No.
Um, we, we've visited a couple.
We go with our son, his wife, toa church and enjoy that.

(01:33:59):
Um, have you been aligned inyour faith perspective?
Yeah.
Like, uh, so the, I think, yeah,the Baptist and the Methodist
aren't that far apart to beginwith.
Right.
Well, we were, yeah.
Yeah.
Not that far.
And we met in the BaptistStudent Union.
Yeah.
So really our faith journey hasbeen pretty consistent together.

(01:34:23):
Um, but ultimately you haven't,since you came back to Northern
Colorado here, you haven'treally found the right place for
you?
Not yet.
We haven't yet.
Okay.
Yeah.
And some of that really has beena function of, of time and
energy.
Right.
Um, and just yeah, if you'reYeah.
The, the traveling to SteamboatYeah.

(01:34:43):
Three times a week, uh, part ofthe conversation is a pretty
crazy thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that was another restroombusiness, is that right?
It was a different, it was arotator franchise with Okay.
Portable restrooms and forestservice, fire camp support.
It was.
Totally different business.
Yeah.
That's a whole differentpodcast.
Yeah.
That one wasn't as easy to fix.

(01:35:05):
It was a hard, it was fixable.
It was, yeah.
That was an interesting part ofour conversation is you started
your whole career as a fixer ofYeah.
Nursing homes.
Yeah.
Right.
And a maker better of Yep.
You know, and, uh, apparentlysometimes you just gotta say,
yeah, this one's too shitty.
Yeah.
Sometimes.
Exactly.
Sorry, that pun.
You gotta, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:35:27):
So I think, you know, andespecially like in the last
couple years, like when all'scare, when we realized that that
was done and what should havelasted long after we were gone
was no longer, yeah.
That's a sad thing.
Um, but really, I mean, I thinkit's those times when you dig
down and you find what yourfaith is really made of, um

(01:35:50):
mm-hmm.
You know, there've been somegreat books.
Again.
Some, I, I have a dear, dearfriend.
Well, a couple of dear friendsactually, who've just been, uh,
so wonderful to listen and toprocess questions with me or
just, you know, be supportive.
And I think, um, you know, Ijust, I, I know that God is with

(01:36:16):
me and with us, and there, youknow, it, it has still been
hard, but I think part of, partof what I was unraveling from
the earlier my earlier faithwalk, is this idea of if you do
everything right, things turnout right.

(01:36:37):
It's like a.
You know, if I do for you, God,you do for me.
And that is really not therelationship.
It's not an exchange.
It's not an exchange.
Yeah.
God is who he she is.
And doesn't change.
Circumstances change, healthchanges, lots of things change,

(01:36:58):
but God doesn't change.
And so, you know, to, to trustin that, in times when it was
like, I don't see what our nextstep is.
I, I see another church plant.
I don't think we've got this,sorry.
We've done house churchesbefore.

(01:37:18):
We have done house churches.
Mm-hmm.
I, I could possibly, you couldbe persuaded.
Do that again.
Yeah.
Well you have to get plugged insomewhere first.
Uh, to be ready to do a plantanyway.
Yeah.
Or just gather up someneighborhoods.
Maybe just start fresh.
Yeah.
De novo.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just like each of those, uh,assisted living locations.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:37:39):
I dig it.
Um, the, the closing segment isthe loco experience.
Yeah.

(01:38:27):
So that's the craziestexperience that you're willing
to share might be a moment, aweek, a month, um, yeah.
You, you know, which experienceyou're thinking about right now,
mark, especially, I think we, wewere talking about this earlier.
I, so I have a tendency toexplore places not necessarily

(01:38:52):
knowing where we're gonna end upimpulsively.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Some might call it that.
Let's drive on this road.
I, one time I wanted to crossthis unknown depth river down
by.
You Ray and with our friends andmy wife was like, you have no
idea whether that's 14 inchesdeep or 44 inches deep.

(01:39:13):
I was like, yeah, but we've gota Lead Rover baby.
Like it'll be fine.
Yeah.
Anyway, continue.
So I'm always, I might have someof those instincts.
I'm always, I've always driventhese big ass Ford, you know, F
two fifties.
Oh, I know which story you'regonna tell.
And so we were over in the LakeCity area.
Mm-hmm.
And I'd read about these passesand we'd been Jeeping and we'd

(01:39:36):
done some of that stuff indifferent trips.
But we were in my truck, Kathyand I, and our daughter Hannah.
So we headed up and we decidedEngineer Pass over.
Engineer Pass.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we discovered why whenpeople do Cimarron Pass and
Engineer Pass, they start withCimarron and then go over
engineer.
Yeah, yeah.

(01:39:56):
Well, we did it the other way.
So that meant in this big Fordtruck we were going on the
outside.
As we went over and then we'reout over animus, forks in that
area.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it just drops and these guysin Jeeps were coming the other
direction, giving us the thumbs.
We are literally on the edge.

(01:40:16):
We are on the edge in thattruck.
I, I get anxiety thinking aboutit and to this day, like if we
get into a situation that it'ssketchy like that, I'm like,
Nope.
Nope.
Right.
I'm getting out.
In fact, we did that anothertime.
I'm out.
But to me it's a really greatday if I'm in four wheel drive,
if maybe I've got tree limbsstuck in the mirrors.
Right.
And you know, I've been able tocrawl up and crawl over and

(01:40:40):
around.
And you made it over engineerdown into, or you went over to
Cinnamon and then you droppeddown.
Where'd you drop down into FromCinnamon.
We actually, we didn't go toCinnamon.
We actually went over engineerand then dropped down into
Animus Forks.
Yep, yep.
And then went over to Silvertonand then back around.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Yep.
Um.
I, yeah, I just love that stuff.

(01:41:01):
I love being out in wild places.
I love hiking, hunting, fishing.
That's a engineer is a sketchypa.
Like, oh yeah.
I've folded on this podcastbefore, but Kathy, for your
sake, uh, on our firstanniversary, I took Jill over
engineer's pass.
Oh my God.
You, gosh.
And got into a fight.
No, like at the very top whenyou're like, way ass above tree

(01:41:24):
line.
Uh, Uhhuh.
Yeah.
My 88 G Cherokee started slidingand so to not go over the edge,
I had to accelerate into this270 degree.
And so I drifted a two 70 degreeturn in an 88 Jeep Cherokee with
no.
Uh, antilock brakes.
Oh, whoa, man.
And we were probably, rockwould've set our chances of

(01:41:46):
dying was 74%, like when Istarted sliding.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
That one has.
Wow.
That'd be hours.
Well, well, yours is scary too.
But yeah, I was sliding in a, inlooking at going over the edge,
uh, so yeah.
If anybody looks so I knowexactly what you're talking
about.
Yeah.
Has not been there.
It is a sheer, I don't know howmany thousand feet then long

(01:42:09):
ways before you start hittingtrees.
Yes.
Because it's just rocks andreally steep rocks for a long
time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think Hannah and I were in thebackseat and I had a camera that
it broke the lens.
That or the over hitting So manytree ranches going No, I think
just the bump side.
Oh, right.
Interesting.
The other, uh, experience wewere remembering was, uh, so we

(01:42:32):
got married the weekend beforeschool started of our last
semester.
We're like, heck, why not?
Why not?
And, um.
So we, I'm horny.
You horny.
Let's get married.
Sorry.
That was about it.
Well, no, we were gonna, we weregonna get married in June after
graduation.
And Mark found this, there wasthis retired a and m professor,

(01:42:54):
and they had, they lived rightoutside of town and they had
this cute little red house thatthey would let a married couple
live in free.
Okay.
You had to be married.
Right.
And so we moved our wedding upto January.
So that, you know, made sense tome.
It was pretty much, I kind ofnailed it with the, I'm horny.
You horny, right.
There's a pattern here, youknow, let's just do it.

(01:43:15):
How bad could it be?
So we took a belated um, um, uh,honeymoon trip, uh, backpacking
Oh, cool.
In, uh, PE wilderness.
And we had a dog at the timethat came with Mark pre predated
me.
Anyway, we're on thisbackpacking trip.
And, um, I, the map is not verygood and we've been hiking all

(01:43:38):
day and we're not where wethought we should be.
And there was a big storm comingup and I'm really tired at this
point.
And so Mark went ahead trying tofind someplace flat.
Like it was a very, it prettysteep, you know?
Right, right.
The trail comes, there's noplace to set up.
There was no place to set upcamp, so now it's raining.

(01:43:59):
Anyway, he comes back and he islike, I found a place right
here.
And we found this little flatspot, like between two streams
and we pitched the tent and ourdog is terrified of thunder.
Like this dog lost her mind whenAnd drowning.
It turns out.
Yeah.
The dog doesn't like, but keepgoing.
Yeah.
And so it was one of thosenights where like, we were so
glad to get in our sleeping bagfinally, but it was like, you

(01:44:21):
know how things just.
They become so magnified in thedark.
Right?
And, and I kept hearing the, therivers and all I could imagine
was the rivers were gonna riseand carry us downstream course
where we were going becausewe're, we're in the mountains.
The water's flowing down.
Right?
It's got its channels prettyestablished.
But you know, those, and thatwas probably the same trip too,

(01:44:43):
where we had, um, travelerschecks back in the day of
travelers checks.
Awesome.
And so we thought, oh, we'rethis close to, um, Taos, we'll
go into Taos for the day.
Thought we had two travelerschecks left.
Turns out we had one we filledup, we had a red VW bus, and,
um, pretty cool.
Yeah, pretty cool.
We could probably go six hoursif we wanted to, huh?

(01:45:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You guys got lots of stories.
We've got a lot of stories.
Now it's, yeah.
Yeah.
But we can't, so were youtelling us we need to cut off?
We're, we're getting, we'll wrapit up to the end here.
Um, mark, if people have anevent.
Yeah, they have a constructionsite.
They can find you at theportable restroom solution.com.

(01:45:26):
Ooh.
Yeah, that's a very, could youget prs.com?
Probably not.
That's been taken.
Yeah, it actually was.
Yeah.
They want$25,000.
Yeah, the portable restroomsolution.
So it's all the standard bluestuff.
Do you have fancy things andstuff too there?
There's kind of a trend rightnow.
Yeah.
Of having like nice bathroomsfor weddings and stuff.
Yeah.
We're starting to be able tobring in the nice bathroom

(01:45:48):
trailers for weddings.
Cool.
And um, yeah, so we do eventsand all kinds of stuff, and I
dig it.
If they've got a septic, theylive out in the country, need
it, pumped, get Oh really?
You do that too?
Oh, we do that too.
Oh, we did it.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And Kathy?
Mm-hmm.
If you've got entrepreneur, doyou do couples work only or No.
I see.
I see.

(01:46:08):
Pe, you know, related to anytype of relationship.
So it might be relationship withthe self people that are wanting
to grow and, you know, that willbenefit their relationships, but
maybe people that, especiallywomen who are just wanting to
kind of fully, you know, findall the aspects of their life,
um, yeah.
You know, and, um, um, but Iwork with individuals, couples

(01:46:33):
of all kinds, but my realpassion is working with
entrepreneur couples and I havea part-time office with Emory
Counseling in Old Town.
Well, that's, Josh is the onlyperson that's Yeah.
Given me counseling so far.
Yeah.
There you go.
He's done a podcast before.
What's up Josh?
So great.
And, um, and then I see peopleanywhere virtually, so.

(01:46:54):
Gotcha.
Um, but my website is kathyrushing.com.
I dig it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Any questions for me before wewrap this up?
You know what, we never actuallycircled back to think Tank, so,
oh yeah.
But we can.
No.
I mean, oh yeah.
I, well, let's just, Mark's amember.
I'm a member.
Eight things is cool.

(01:47:14):
Yep, yep.
Maybe not as good as C 12 yet,but we're only nine months in so
far.
That was a unique experience.
Pete's awesome.
Yeah.
Pete is a great facilitator.
He is doing a great job with,well, in that first experience,
like you'll, it'd be hard toYeah.
Beat in some ways right's True.
Like when you've been alone onan island for a long time.
Yeah.
And somebody's like, Hey, we allhave islands too.

(01:47:35):
You're like, oh, damn.
Yeah.
Yeah.
These guys all have violins too.
Yeah, exactly.
So yeah, shout out for, uh, LocoThink Tank as a great
opportunity to be with a, agroup of peers.
And, um, yeah.
The value of that is justincredible.
It's a nice, good perspective.
Yep.

(01:47:56):
Thanks to have, thanks forsharing your perspectives here.
Yeah.
Thanks Kathy.
You're welcome.
Bye for now.
Thanks for having us.

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EXPERIENCE 227 | Navigating Life & Business, Together - Mark & Kathy Rushing Share their Secrets to a Lasting Entrepreneurial Marriage.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EXPERIENCE 227 | Navigating Life & Business, Together - Mark & Kathy Rushing Share their Secrets to a Lasting Entrepreneurial Marriage.