Strong Island Legends: JVC Force’s AJ Rok & B-Luv on LIMEHOF Podcast

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi, this is Tom Needham, and you are listening
to the Long Island Music andEntertainment Hall of Fame
podcast.
Today, we're proud to welcometwo legends of hip-hop, B-Love
and AJ Rock, from the iconicLong Island group JVC Force.
Known for their classic trackslike Strong Island and Doing

(00:22):
Damage, JVC Force helped putLong Island on the hip-hop map
with their powerful rhymes,infectious beats, and undeniable
Stay tuned as we dive into theirincredible story and lasting
impact on music history.
Hey guys, thank you so much forjoining us on the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 (00:41):
Hey, thank you for having us.
Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
Yeah, oh man, I'm so excited about this.
Strong Island, JVC Force.
Let's go to the beginning.
Tell me when each of you firstcame to Long Island or where you
grew up on Long Island.
What's each of your stories?

SPEAKER_03 (01:03):
All right.
Well, we came to Long Island.
I came to Long Island back in1973.
I was five years old, going onsix years old.
I met AJ shortly after moving toLong Island.
I believe I was five.
He was seven.
I was going on six, and he wasbecoming eight.

(01:25):
But needless to say...
you know, from living in theneighborhood at that time, um,
Long Island was a place to wherethere were only around three
houses on each street.
So there's a lot of dirt roadsand different things like that.
So I met AJ, um, as one of thefirst people that I, you know,
coming out there, he was one ofthe first people that I met.
Um, he lived right around thecorner.

(01:46):
Naturally, you know, wegravitated, became, um,
neighborhood friends, eventuallybecame like brothers.
So, um, Growing up, he's alwaysbeen there.
I know he's gone back and forthto Mount Vernon throughout the
years while I was on LongIsland, spent some time in
Brooklyn also, where I wasoriginally from.

(02:07):
But like I said, again,throughout the years, you know,
going to school and stuff likethat, you know, but we've seen
A.J.
and again, we slowly begandeveloping a brotherhood.

SPEAKER_02 (02:18):
Yeah, for me, I was born in Mount Vernon, New York.
My parents decided they wantedto get a house.
They ended up moving to CentralIslip, Long Island.
It was a new community calledthe American Estates.
They call it the New D andCentral Islip.
And it was a cool community.

(02:40):
They were building it, as B-Lovesaid.
So it was like a lot of thestreets still had dirt roads and
they were still building it.
I was seven.
It was 72 when I moved there.
My whole back and forth.
So my parents ended up gettingdivorced when I'm like about 11
or 12.
I become a rebel without a pauseor a cause.

(03:02):
And my mother sent me back toMount Vernon to my dad's house.
So I went to high school inMount Vernon.
And then I was back and forth,back and forth.
While I was gone, B.
Love and Kurt Gazelle wasstarting to make noise in the
neighborhood.
You know, they're both a coupleof years younger than me.
And we had a friend, my nextdoor neighbor, Rodney Norman,
and a good friend of ours, MikeWalls.

(03:25):
They saw me on the block.
They were bragging about how,you know, all the things B.
Love and Kurt were doing.
And they were going to do, theywere having a party, like a
little house party.
doing some girl's house partythat night.
So Mike Walls, like, you know, Ijust got back in time.
I feel like going nowhere.
I didn't want to go out.
Mike was like, nah, you'regoing, you're going.

(03:45):
So they basically dragged me tothe party.
And then, so this is around,probably around, this is
probably around 87, early 87 orover the summer or whatever.
So I go to the party and, Iguess they were saying something
along the lines of, let AJ geton the mic, let AJ get on the

(04:06):
mic.
I said a couple of lines.
I said a couple of rhymes I had.
And B-Love, you know, it was hisset.
So, you know, he said a coupleof rhymes.
And then we were going back andforth, not really in a battle,
but just going back and forthand back and forth.
At the end of the night,everyone was talking about how
great we sounded together.
And we decided to meet up atKurt's garage like the next day

(04:28):
or so.
And then I ended up joining thegroup and we start working on
routines and we start, um, youknow, uh, the idea of trying to
make a demo and shopping thedemo to labels and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
I want to hear about this famous garage.
But can you give us just alittle sense of the scene at
that time?
You said mid eighties, um, who,uh, was big in hip-hop at that
time?
Who were you guys listening to?
And were there other artists onLong Island who you guys were in
connection with who eventuallywent on to do things in the

(05:06):
industry?

SPEAKER_02 (05:07):
So there were early groups like Everybody, we all
credit the Bronx as thebirthplace of hip hop, but they
had groups like Cold Crush andstuff like that, that were doing
it pre-recorded hip hop.
And we had groups like that inCentral Islet, Unlimited Power,
Midnight Express, and DoubleExposure.

(05:28):
And Double Exposure, I was kindof like the unofficial little
brother.
I was younger than them, but Iwould try to hang out with them
a lot.
And that was a big influence ofours.
And they were doing, you know,they were doing block parties
and park parties and, you know,big backyard parties.
And they would just, you know,They were doing everything the
groups in the city were doing,the infamous groups in the city.

(05:52):
We had that in Central Islip.
And we had that all across LongIsland, but we were living in
Central Islip.
I'm talking about Central Islipnow.
And I talked about them all atthe panel that you had me speak
on for the 50th anniversary.
I named all of those groups.
And they were doing it while...
Chuck and him, while Keith wastalking about all the groups

(06:14):
that were doing what they weredoing in Hempstead and in
Nassau, you know, hip hop wasalways around.
But for people I was listeningto, I was going back and forth
to Mount Vernon.
So I would hear Mount Vernon'son the borderline in the Bronx.
I would hear stuff like, I wouldget tapes like Cold Crush
Brothers and, you know, Tapefrom the T-Connection and all of

(06:36):
these spots were all the biggroups, Treacherous 3, Funky 4,
Crash Crew, all of them.
So I was listening to a lot ofthat in high school.
That was my influence.
My three emcees that made mewant to pick up a mic and do it
more, you know, Melly Mel, earlyKumo Dean when he did the battle

(06:58):
with Busy B, and Grandmaster Kazfrom Cold Crush.
Those are my three.
Those are kind of like my MountRushmore emcees for me, and
that's who influenced me.
And even a lot of stuff me and Bdid in the beginning, we were
doing the routines, like ColdCrush is known for their
routines, Churches 3, a lot ofthose groups before us, they had

(07:19):
routines, and that's the stuffwe start working on, routines,
going back and forth, back andforth, and, you know, And that's
how we kind of formed the group,formed our sound, for me anyway.

SPEAKER_03 (07:30):
What about you, B-Love?
I think for us, I think whatinfluenced us through the
mid-'80s, hip-hop-wise, was alot of stuff that was coming out
of the city.
You know, Long Island earlydays, you know, I guess about a
year later came Biz.
He hooked up with a city group,the Juice Crew.
He started getting radio play.

(07:52):
We all admired that.
We were like, we want to be onthe radio too.
You had Eric B.
and Rakim come out.
Rakim was from Long Island.
That was around like 86 or so.
And then, you know, like again,you know, you had great
influence of ours, Public Enemy,who came out around 86 also,

(08:13):
that we would see them everytime we do interviews, I
believe.
What was that at

SPEAKER_02 (08:16):
WBAU?
WBAU, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (08:19):
In Hempstead, Long Island.
At

SPEAKER_02 (08:20):
Delphi University.

SPEAKER_03 (08:21):
Big ups to Wildman Steve, Dr.
Dre, Jeff Foss.
We'd even see them when we go toHofstra.
So I think the influence for uswas from coming from the city.
But it didn't only start in like1986.
It started back around like1973.
Because again, growing up, thefirst time any young kid heard

(08:45):
hip hop, they were possessed.
They fell in love with it.
started writing rhymes, startedtrying to sound like the Cold
Crush.
They're also one of my favoritegroups.
When I met AJ, one of our ideaswas like, hey, it's two of us,
but we got to harmonize a lotlike the Cold Crush does.
So throughout the years, youknow, we started to develop more

(09:06):
based on that influence.
And that's about how it went forjust about everyone.
And we took it and we took it.
And by the time we got to highschool, were presented with an
opportunity at that time.
It was graduation time, and ourgraduation class always went to
Six Flags in New Jersey.

(09:27):
So they had a mic booth there,and I went into the mic booth
with another friend of mine thatdoes the human beatbox.
And we went in there, and webasically did almost like a
three-minute song, like a rapfreestyle.
Got out of high school,graduated.
sent it out to about 17 raplabels, heard from B-Boy Records

(09:50):
first, and ended up signing adeal with them for that song.
Strong Island was not the songthat we initially got signed
for.
We got signed for the newschool.
which was a, again, a solo songthat I did on a senior class
trip at Six Flags GreatAdventure in New Jersey.

SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
Yeah, it's because it was, you know, going through
the files when you go into thosemusic booths back then, you
know, they had a lot of pop andthey had a couple of hip hop
songs and stuff.
But my partner, his name at thetime, Rob, he was a beatbox that
he hung around with the group alot.
So, We were pretty prepared togo in there and do that.

(10:30):
So I went in there and spit oneof my probably most
sophisticated rhyme styles,which was the new school.
And like I said, we grabbed thatlittle tape, came back to Long
Island.
We duplicated it.
That was the only official demothat we had.
And we put them in likepackages.
All of the Def Jams passed onit.
All of the Tommy Boys, theWarner Brothers.

(10:53):
Because again, at that time, noone knew how to really market a
group from Long Island.
A lot of groups were from LongIsland, but only pretty much
Public Enemy in those earlydays.
And, you know, they were theonly ones saying that they were
from Long Island and stuff.
You know, Rakim mentioned againRough

SPEAKER_02 (11:11):
Enough to Break.
Yeah, they both mentioned it.
And I think that's the point.
Nobody...
And I said this when I spoke atthe Hall of Fame.
Rakim said Rough Enough toBreak, New York from Long
Island.
Chuck D said Strong Island whereI got them wilding.
Right.
For...
People who didn't know, theydidn't know that Rakim, because

(11:32):
Eric B was from Queens andBrooklyn, so they didn't know
Rakim was from Long Island.
They didn't really know PublicEnemy was from Long Island.
They had a sound that resonatedthrough the city and you had to
kind of be from one of the fiveboroughs to be respected.
People didn't know they werefrom Long Island.
And then when we did StrongIsland, which again, the

(11:55):
continued B story, B-Boy signedus for B's solo record, New
School.
But they wanted a song for theB-side and asked us to go do
another song.
So B-Love went home and pinnedStrong Island and then came
around the corner to my houseand ran it down for me.

(12:15):
And we broke it up and we wentin the studio and did that song.
That song, they heard that andthey were blown away and decided
to make that the A-side.
And most labels that we talkedto later said if that's the song
they heard, they would havesigned us.
Like Strong Island would havegotten us anywhere.
But, you know, Strong Islanddidn't exist when we first

(12:37):
started.
And we did what everybody elsedid.
You know, you take all yourfavorite 12 inches and albums
and you see the record labeladdress at the bottom.
And we went and put the tape inthe envelope and wrote out the
envelopes and mailed them off toall the labels.
And B-Boy is the one that calledus which to us wasn't a bad

(12:57):
thing because instead of beingthe 10th artist on Def Jam or
the 8th artist on Tommy Boy, theonly thing they really had was
BDP at the time, KRS to SouthBronx, that album, Criminal
Minded album.
So we knew we would be like thenumber two group.

(13:17):
And then Scott dies six monthslater.
KRS leaves and goes to Jive.
And now we are literally thenumber one group.
And B-Boy had that anthem withSouth Bronx.
And then they were kind ofexcited because now they had
this other anthem for anotherregion.
Strong

SPEAKER_03 (13:38):
Allen.
We were excited because gettingthe call from B-Boy Records, it
really minimalized the otherlabels in our opinion.
The first person that called uswas the first person.
We were young at the time and wejust wanted to be on the radio.
We knew we had a couple ofthings that we wanted the world

(13:59):
to hear, but we pretty much justwanted to be on the radio.
So when B-Boy called us, StrongIsland got penned in about three
hours.
Um, it didn't take long backthen for me to write records.
Um, it didn't take Kurt long inthe studio to do beats.
Um, but we, we wanted to be onthe radio so bad that we, we

(14:21):
went ahead and we took that dealand, um, we went with it and
just going through it.
Like AJ said, like we, we wenton to do the doom when he heard
Strong Island, um, It led themto send us back to the studio
without any guidance oradministration.
They said, just go up there anddo whatever y'all are doing and
bring us an album.

(14:43):
I think that sampling andlooping by the great Charlie
Marotta on Long Island was oneof the precedents of things in
hip hop.
Charlie Marotta was one of thefew engineers that knew how to
loop a record.
So it gave Long Island artiststhe ability to really loop funk
songs, hip hop songs, breakbeats, et cetera, et cetera.

(15:05):
And it's original form.
So they pretty much, they didn'tcome up there with us throughout
the whole album.
About two weeks later, wedelivered them to doing damage
album.

SPEAKER_01 (15:15):
Oh my goodness.
They began

SPEAKER_03 (15:16):
to, yeah.
And they began to, yep.
And they began to put it out.
We used to get dressed up as agroup.
We would like to put on like,you know, our clothes and stuff
and go places.
And, you know, we would say,yeah, we're going to do a photo
shoot.
We didn't have nobody takingpictures of us or anything.
We had a little 24 millimeterbox camera.

(15:38):
And that would be our photoshoot with one of our friends
taking pictures of us.
That's how the Doing Damagealbum arrived.
That car was located on SpurDrive North in

SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
Long Island.
It was a broke down car on theside of the road.
We did a little more damage toit and then stood all over it.
And that became the Doing Damagecover.
Like literally...
That literally became a doingdamage cover.
The other thing that I wanted toadd to what B was saying, the
amazing thing was this was atime B-Boy record wasn't giving

(16:09):
album deals.
They were giving single deals.
You put out a single, and thenyou put out another single, and
if that made enough noise, yougot an album deal.
So a lot of people that was onthere just had single deals.
We had an album deal out thebox.
Wow.
And also at the time, DJsweren't signed to labels, to the

(16:32):
contracts.
Like Mr.
C wasn't signed, Big Daddy Kanewas.
I don't know if Terminator X wassigned when Public Enemy was.
Only DJs that were signed, theirname was in the group.
DJ Jazzy Jeff and the FreshPrince, DJ Polo and Coogee Rat,
like their name was literally inthe group.
Other than that, most DJs wasn'tsigned.

(16:54):
We were a three-man crew.
the DJ was a member of the crew.
You know what I'm saying?
So that was another thing thatwas different about us, because
a lot of people's DJs were notsigned.
And a lot of people went throughDJs.
EPMD went through a couple ofDJs.
Their DJ wasn't signed.

SPEAKER_03 (17:12):
Our DJ was signed because we looked at ourself as
a three-man band, which later onI started to realize that other
groups started to develop thatconcept.
The reason why we wereconsidered to be a three-man
band and the reason why wesigned our contracts like that
was so that we would never getseparated as a group.
Of course, when you're younger,you realize, hey, you know what?

(17:34):
My vision of the future isprobably a little bit off.
Because back then, what labelswere doing, what labels were
going for, the big artists outthe group and grabbing them and
signing them as solo artists,which pretty much broke up a lot
of dope hip hop groups in LongIsland.
Um, but you know, one thing wewere determined to do, we knew

(17:56):
that we were on a label with KRSone.
We knew that he was in the midstof a big battle with MC Shan.
We knew that people were sayingBrooklyn's in the house and we
knew that Shan was saying, Hey,the bridge, um, um, KRS one was
saying the bridge is over.
Um, um, not the bridge is over.
Um, MSG was saying the bridge isover.

(18:18):
KRS-One was saying the SouthBronx.
What could we do to put LongIsland on the map?
Because again, now, mind you,Long Island was a place to where
no one knew how to market LongIsland.
We were going out to the cityand we were taking our demos out
to the city, to Manhattan, tomanagement labels and stuff.

(18:38):
And they were saying, you guysare so dope.
I just don't know how to manageyou guys because There's no
urban experience in Long Island.

SPEAKER_02 (18:47):
Yeah, we didn't

SPEAKER_03 (18:48):
fit that narrative.
We had no projects, no trains.

SPEAKER_02 (18:51):
Yeah, we didn't fit that narrative from the hood.
And somebody wrote an article onus.
It actually was supposed to be adiss article.
of us and it said these guys arenot your regular rappers they
come from two family householdsthey cut the grass on saturday
you know like like that you knowwhere everybody else's story was

(19:11):
there from the projects allright the father wasn't in the
house they they had to selldrugs or something to get by or
they end up getting in the gangyou know what we didn't have
none of that kind of story andit was even even the reporter
didn't even know how to writeabout us they was like yeah
these guys got they come fromgood houses with two two parents
and they cut the grass.

(19:33):
That's what they wrote about us.

SPEAKER_03 (19:34):
Once upon a time, but once upon a time, we did
come from urban America.
We did come from Brooklyn andMount Vernon.
We spent so much time going backand stuff, but we lived in Long
Island and where we found ourfame was Long Island.
Strong Island.

(20:07):
And one thing, again, that weknew was that competition in
Long Island was getting really,really stiff.
There were some really greatartists coming out in the golden
age of hip hop back then.
Yeah.
But what we needed was we neededsomething very, very defining.
And, you know, I believe in thebeginning, Strong Island was
supposed to be called StrongLong Island.
And then we took off the long.

(20:28):
So we just said, hey, we'regoing to call it Strong Island.
We heard Chuck saying, yeah.
Strong Island, Way I Got HimWild.
You know what?
That needs to be the name of thesong.
And seeking out beats for thatsong, I would say AJ.
I was in college at the time.
And AJ and Kurt, they went overto my dad's house.

(20:48):
And they were going throughrecords with him.
He's a very big music collector.
His origins started in England.
He shipped his whole collectionover from England.
But he had a lot, a lot ofrecords.
So pretty much anything soulfulor classic that you can ask for,
he can pull it out.
And A began inquiring, Ibelieve, about a Frida Payne

(21:09):
song.
Yeah, I'm

SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
going to ask you.
I'm asking him about, because hegot free to pain.
So he pulls out a 45 and playsthe band of gold.
And I'm like, that's not it.
He's saying it has to be becausethat was the hit.
And I'm like, that's not it.
I knew the record because the DJfrom Double Exposure actually
traded me the 45 for my goodtimes.

(21:35):
And, you know, because he wasdoing a party that night.
And he amped me up about thiswas a hot joint.
And I was so upset that I gaveup my good times.
I don't know where I threw thatrecord at.
But I remembered the record.
So I was asking his father if hehad Free the Pain.
So he's telling me Band of Goldwas the hit song.
So I asked, is there anything onthe other side?
And when the needle dropped, andthat was it.

(21:59):
And then we were going through.
We played it.
We called B-Love at college.
He was going to college at thetime.
He was away.
So we called him and played itfor him over the phone.
And then Um, somehow we ended upusing the, uh, the, uh, the
guitar part, the unhookedgeneration from, from another

(22:19):
song on her album that be love'sfather also had the album.
So that, that, that was, andKurt took it in the studio and
did what he did.

SPEAKER_03 (22:27):
Not after, not after, not, not, not

SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
originally because he wanted to do some other
stuff.

SPEAKER_03 (22:32):
Not before a whole bunch of argument because
initially Kurt wanted to takethe, And he wanted to put under
the boardwalk.
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,boom.
That's what he wanted to useover it.

SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
And that was the original.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (22:48):
This needs to be way more fusion and fresh.
And.
We used the double Frida Paynesamples.
We demanded, you know, he had toelement like...
And again, back then, I want tosay the reason we were a
three-man group is because ifyou look at a lot of the
structure of the JVC songs, wewere one of the only groups at

(23:09):
that time that was giving the DJlike a whole 16 lines to
scratch.

SPEAKER_00 (23:14):
That's what I was going to ask you about because
your sound is...
is really unique that way he'sscratching like throughout every
song like a lot like he has avoice the second

SPEAKER_03 (23:25):
like the second dj to ever do the transformer
scratch we went and we listenedto um jazzy jeff live at union
square one year uh jazzy jeffand fresh prince live at union
square jazzy jeff introduced thetransformer scratch went to kurt
the following morning and waslike it sounded like this next
thing you know he's doing itit's on our album too He's

(23:46):
scratching through severalsongs.
He's scratching choruses.
He had his own scratch record.
And it was all a means of beinga third of the group.
So we would say, you know what,we'll highlight the songs with
our lyrics.
We'll make sure we go off withour lyrics.
You make sure that your handsalso element the songs very

(24:07):
heavy.
We were never one to say, hey,you know what?
We wanted some smooth littleradio hits and stuff like that.
We were like, you know what?
We want it hard as it could be.
And hey, if the radio takes it,the radio will take it.
And if the radio doesn't takeit, the radio doesn't take it.
But this is how we want tosound.
And as a result of it, you knowwhat I mean?

(24:28):
He had several songs.
Strong Island was one of them.
He scratched a lot at the end ofTake It Away.
He

SPEAKER_02 (24:35):
scratched on Doing Damage.
There were

SPEAKER_03 (24:37):
several.

SPEAKER_02 (24:38):
That was his own song, just scratching and
putting things together.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (24:43):
So we, you know, we, like I say, you know, as a three
man group, this is what weestablished.
And it was like, you know, alabel would never come in.
And as we thought back then, youknow, a label would never come
in and, you know, fascinate usso much to want to leave each
other.
We have spent so much timeagain, growing up in Long
Island.

(25:03):
We all used to hang outtogether.
We used to go to partiestogether.
We used to go to the moviestogether.
I mean, we used to go throughthe South Shore Mall together.

SPEAKER_02 (25:12):
We used to

SPEAKER_03 (25:13):
shop at Chess King together.
We used to shop at– we used toeat in the food court.
We used to buy clothes together.
We used to go to the city all ofthe

SPEAKER_02 (25:22):
time together.
We ran.
We were self-contained.
I used an example.
I was– See, T-Money from MTV andfrom Original Concept
interviewed me recently.
And I used an example.
Ed and Dre Lover, when theyfirst did Yo MTV Raps, MTV just
gave them cameras and said, do ashow.

(25:44):
Then once the show became big,then you had all these people
wanting to come in and thecredits and wanting to have
parts and say in the show.
when we first got started theyjust said go do a record we was
in the studio by ourselves andwe did all that then it was like
later on like in the second andthe third unreleased album you

(26:04):
know now we got A&Rs and peoplewanted producers wanted to give
us different producers and itwas just like but in the
beginning when we did this whenwe did that first album they
just said go in the studio andbring me something and that's
what we did they was alwayssaying

SPEAKER_03 (26:19):
They was always saying, like, just come
somewhere, go somewhere, dothis, do that.
Because, again, at that time,B-Boy Records had no, they had
no idea of the concept of how wewere making our music.
How were you doing

SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
it?
Where were you going?
Where were you going to recordyour music and mix

SPEAKER_02 (26:38):
it?

SPEAKER_00 (26:39):
Charlie Murata.

SPEAKER_02 (26:40):
Charlie

SPEAKER_03 (26:41):
Murata.
Charlie Murata.

SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
The same studio, so EPMD used that studio.
K-Solo ended up coming out ofthat.
EPMD did the first few DOS FXrecords out of that.
Keith Murray worked out of that.
Craig Mack worked out of that.
So it was a studio, the localstudio that we all used.
It was heavily used in Suffolk

SPEAKER_03 (27:00):
County.
When we had to do some biggerrecords throughout the years, we
went over to folks like DavidGreenberg, who at the time, he
had a bigger studio thanCharlie, but Charlie's studio
was just...
way more unique for hip hopsound.

SPEAKER_02 (27:18):
It was local.
It was a local.
It was a local.
It wasn't like a big studio youwould find in the city.
It was like the attic of hismother's house.
It was just like, it was a homestudio, but he had everything in
there.
And it was comfortable for us.

(27:38):
It was 15 minutes from thehouse.
We just go there and spend time.
And we never wasted time.
Most of the songs, Kurt did thebeats a lot of times before we
got there.
Sometimes he worked on them whenwe got there.
But a lot of times we were inand out the studio in like four
hours.

(27:58):
Yeah.
With a done song.

SPEAKER_03 (28:00):
I think one of the things that people never really
realized was that how much wedidn't like to be in the studio
while the production was beingmade.
Why?
Yeah, you know, we had ourchemistry.
You know, Kurt ended up workingat Charlie's studio.
So he was the main engineer withthem.
And I think he was the firstengineer that Charlie ever...

(28:23):
you know, trained and workedthere.
So, you know, we had advantageswhen it came to getting studio
time and doing what we had todo.
But even when we startedrecording, like, our second
album or, you know, we recordedsongs for the third, which was
the Big Tracks album, we...
never really particularly itused to it used to itch me

(28:45):
sitting in the studio listeningto the same thing over and over
and over and over i would comein and i would say hey what are
we eating tonight where's themenus you know things like that
the lyrics would always be readybut um you know going back tom
to what you were talking aboutwith um what we were talking
about in regards to like b-boyrecords they would just send us
here they would just send ushere That is how the concept of,

(29:08):
there's a video that's out of usperforming Strong Island at a
Red Alert variety show.

SPEAKER_02 (29:14):
It's a public access show that Red Alert hosts.
I've seen

SPEAKER_03 (29:17):
that.
I love that video.
That was never the actual

SPEAKER_02 (29:23):
Strong Island video.
We didn't

SPEAKER_03 (29:25):
do a Strong Island video.
What it was, again, at thattime, was the label turned
around and called to LongIsland, told us, hey, put on
your nice clothes and meet us inthe city.
next thing you know we'rewalking across the stage and
someone's handing us mics andthat's why in a sense when
you're looking at the video itlooks so unrehearsed and i'm
kind of looking i'm kind oflooking a little stiff and

(29:46):
nervous and i'm like so what arewe doing here what are we doing
there what are we doing here andat the time we kind of knew who
red alert was but not fullyfully fully on that video he's
so young

SPEAKER_02 (30:00):
Yeah, he knew us.
I knew who Red Alert was.
He broke the record.
We

SPEAKER_03 (30:05):
didn't know him personally,

SPEAKER_02 (30:06):
though.
No, we didn't know himpersonally.

SPEAKER_03 (30:08):
No, and when we met him on that Variety show, it
almost like it...
Because when he heard StrongIsland, what he did was 1988,
midnight, on New Year's Evenight, going into midnight, at
midnight on the nose, he brokethat record.
Played it a couple of times, andthat record was...

(30:29):
In the beginning, it was likepeople was listening to that
record and they were like, man,what the heck is this?
The cadence of this record iskind of like it can change the
game.
But people didn't know whatCentral Islet was.
A lot of people, when we saidliving in Seattle, they thought
we were talking about ConeyIsland.
They thought we were a Brooklyngroup.
Because again, Long Islandwasn't known to do things like

(30:51):
that.
That's so interesting.

UNKNOWN (30:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (30:54):
I'd

SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
be in the city and they'd be like, yo, you not
living in Seattle?
Yeah.
What part of Coney Island youat?
And I'm like, there's like 15Brooklyn dudes in me.
And I'm like, uh, by theamusement park.
And then I would bounce.
Cause I was like, I didn't wantto tell him I wasn't from
Brooklyn.
Cause I was like, I'm by myself.

(31:15):
Like, you know what I'm saying?
I ain't know nothing about ConeyIsland.
I was, I

SPEAKER_03 (31:18):
was born

SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
in.

SPEAKER_03 (31:19):
Yeah.
I was born in Brooklyn and Imoved to Long Island when I was
really young.
Now, for anybody that knows me,knows I'm a real arrogant son of
a gun.
And when we made that record,one thing I will pridefully say
is that I've been waving a flagfor Long Island ever since.

(31:40):
I've been waving a flag forCentral Light Slip.
I've been waving a flag for LongIsland.
I've been waving a flag throughthe boroughs for Long Island all
the way until we Even went toEurope and realized that we had
a big follower in the UnitedStates.
Never not turned around and toldsomebody, hey, where are you
from?
From Central Island, LongIsland, Suffolk County.

SPEAKER_02 (32:02):
No, I did that that day.
I was by myself.
I was by myself and a bunch ofBrooklyn dudes.
So that day I didn't feel like Iwanted to tell them.
I was like,

SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
yo.
Let me ask you one thing.
You mentioned before playingparties and parks and stuff like
that.
And AJ, I think I've spoken toyou about this once before, but
for our listeners, a lot ofpeople know the Long Island
music scene, and they think ofall these different clubs that
existed throughout the 60s, 70s,and 80s.

(32:36):
But a lot of them were notfeaturing hip-hop artists, even
though some of the biggest namesin music...
History have been from LongIsland.
Were there any places other thanparties and parks where there
was hip-hop being performedduring your time?
I

SPEAKER_02 (32:55):
think our first home show was not too far from the
Hall of Fame with Stony BrookUniversity.

SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
Oh, you guys played there?

SPEAKER_02 (33:04):
Yeah, that was like our first.
Yeah, we played there for.

SPEAKER_03 (33:06):
That

SPEAKER_02 (33:07):
was our first.
Yeah, that was our first LongIsland

SPEAKER_03 (33:12):
show.
That was our first home show.
We were coming off of tour.
We were coming off of tour inGermany.
And they were having a big Sigmablue and white weekend.

SPEAKER_02 (33:22):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (33:22):
And they booked us.
And they booked Vaughn Mason ofRays.
And they booked, I believe itwas another group also.
But we came off of the road fromGermany.
And that was our first homeshow.
Now.
We had shows that we did in thecity and stuff like that
throughout the course of theyears and stuff like that.
But again, being up in LongIsland, Stony Brook was

(33:44):
definitely a staple.
It was a lot of preparation forthat show.
A serious crowd because, youknow, the Sigma organization is
very heavy, fraternities andstuff.
So we came off the road and thatwas one of our very few shows
that we came through and did inLong Island.
I believe we did probably aboutone or two throughout the course

(34:04):
of time, but...
That was the main, main show.

SPEAKER_02 (34:08):
Right, there was a spot we did.
We did something like, aroundthe 4th of July, we did this
spot.
It wasn't a club.
It was more like, I don't know.
It was like, not a communitycenter, but it was like some
building that really wasn't likea club that they just had a show

(34:28):
there that night.
You know what I'm

SPEAKER_01 (34:30):
saying?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:30):
And so it was stuff like that.
So we did stuff like that.
And like you said, most of thestuff was out of state, the
Delawares and all thosedifferent places.
And we were traveling.
And we were doing stuff likethat.
But it was just like, that wasour homecoming show.
Like, so, you know, the recordStrong Island, Long Island

(34:52):
hadn't seen us live yet, youknow, and everybody came to see
us.
But that's why I said when I wasthere for the 50th, I was
telling, I think Wild Man Stevewas interviewing me and I was
saying, you know, this is comingfull circle because just right
around here is where we did ourfirst show at Stony Brook
University.

SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
That's pretty cool.
Let me ask you, what was itlike?
You guys were young.
You just made all this musicpractically by yourself.
And then all of a sudden, therecord gets picked up and it's a
hit.
It's getting played.
You're even being played inEurope.
You go on tour.

(35:30):
That must have been prettyexciting.
Must have changed your life tosome extent.

SPEAKER_03 (35:37):
So let me say

SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
this.

SPEAKER_03 (35:39):
It did.
It did, Tom.
And the funny part about it is,performing, having the song
Strong Island out, I was incollege upstate.
I managed to get out of thatcollege and stuff like that and
have my degree and stuff likethat.
When I went over to, I became a,after going to that college, I

(36:02):
became a active student at StonyBrook University.
And now, mind you, I'm gettingready to go on tour as a student
at Stony Brook University.
And then I'm getting ready tocome home and perform at Stony
Brook University.
And one thing I can say that Iremember back then that was kind

(36:23):
of crazy was the popularity ofit all did not allow me to stay
at Stony Brook.
Really?

SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
I was going to ask

SPEAKER_03 (36:31):
you.
There was going to be no waythat I could be a student there,
have a career with such a Withsuch a record, there was no way
that that was going to go aheadand happen.
Why?
You were

SPEAKER_00 (36:44):
just getting mobbed

SPEAKER_03 (36:44):
too

SPEAKER_00 (36:45):
much?

SPEAKER_03 (36:47):
Yeah, the popularity back then of the song, anywhere
we went, it was like a primaryfocus for folks.
They didn't look at me like,okay, this is B-Love, freshman
student, You know, they lookedat me, this is B-Love.

(37:08):
They made that song StrongIsland.
Right.
They did this, they did that,da-da-da-da.
And that was just the mainfocus.
There was always people in mydorm room.
There was always girls at mydorm room.
You know, one of those things towhere, like, you know, if I
thought I was going to turnaround and even pull off a 2.5,
it wasn't going

SPEAKER_02 (37:27):
to happen.
Right.
But talking about the experienceoverseas, one of the most
amazing thing.
So we perform some places andthen we would walk around.
They were like big clubs.
They weren't, you know, and wewould walk around sometimes the
club afterwards.

(37:48):
And, you know, when we were onthe stage and we were, ask
people like what they want tohear.
They would name songs or youcould see them singing the
lyrics word for word.
And then when we went to talk tothem, I was amazed that they
didn't know English, but knewour words, our songs word for
word.
That blew me away that people inanother country that are not

(38:11):
fluent in English, but know yourlyrics word for word.
I think that was one of thebiggest things.
And then we got to see thingslike, you know, If I had money
and was going on vacation, thatarea of Germany wouldn't have
never been where I picked.
But we got to see things likehistory, like we got to see the
wall a year before it came down.

(38:33):
A year or two before the wall,you know, that Berlin Wall came

SPEAKER_03 (38:36):
down.
It wasn't even a greatimpressive wall either.
It looked like a white wall withsome chicken wire and graffiti
on

SPEAKER_02 (38:43):
it.
But the amazing thing was...
So we did perform in EastBerlin, and at that point, that
was the communist side, I guess,or whatever.
And when we coming out of it,you had military-looking people
with automatic weapons lookingunder the train, and people were

(39:05):
trying to escape.
People were trying to escape.
They had the

SPEAKER_03 (39:07):
machine.
They had the...
They had the long rifle gunsback then.

SPEAKER_02 (39:13):
And I had never seen anything like that in person.
They were walking through thecrane like that.
Poking

SPEAKER_03 (39:20):
people with the knife on the gun to move along.
I'm

SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
like...
Those things like that.
And then the most interestingthing is, you know, we went to a
McDonald's and they sell beerand they sell the B-E-I-R or
something like that, or B-I-E-Ror something.
That was like amazing, like thatthey serve beer at McDonald's.
So it was this big cultureshock, like coming from where we

(39:47):
were from and these peopleshowing us so much love.
There's another story.
So we did, we were doing likefour or five songs and that's
what we got paid for.
So we did our, in one city, wedid the songs and then we
finished and the crowd wasbanging on the stage and stuff
for us to come back out.

(40:07):
So we told the promoter, youwant us to go back and you'll
pay for another show, you know,so they wouldn't do it.
So, you know, the people startbanging.
They say, you've got to go backout.
They go rip up my club.
We go out there and, And when Igo to grab the mic, the mic is
missing.
The people in the crowd stolethe mic.

(40:28):
I said, I can't perform withoutthe mic.
The person who stole the michanded the mic back up.

SPEAKER_00 (40:32):
Oh,

SPEAKER_02 (40:33):
wow.
So I could perform.
And it was a really nice mic.
And then they stole it again.
I was mad.
I was like, if I knew that, Iwould have took the mic because
it was a really, really nicemic.
But that was like an amazingexperience.
They were calling for us to comeback out.
And Someone stole the mic andturned back in the mic so I
could perform and then stole itagain.
Like, those are the crazy thingsthat we're, you know, we're

(40:55):
young and we're experiencing allthis stuff for the first time in
a new country, new countries,new places we've never been
before.
And that was just the wholeexperience was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
Let me ask you.
You know, the crowd would.

SPEAKER_03 (41:08):
Yeah, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
I was saying the crowd back thenwas so...
They looked at New York artistslike they're idols.
So even when you would surf thecrowd or something or you would
jump into the crowd and theywould carry you through, there
were people that were sofascinated out there.
It was like...
wow, what are those on yourfeet?

(41:29):
You know, we had on like the newJordans at the time, you know,
the retro Jordans at the timewas out.
They weren't retro yet.
They would try to take it offyour feet.
You know, they wanted

SPEAKER_02 (41:38):
a piece of the group.
Somebody actually brought one ofmy Jordans.
I had two pairs.
Someone brought my Jordan.
We paid$75 for them in a mallnear Rochelle.
And I sold them for$200.
And I was looking for somebodyto buy the other pair

SPEAKER_00 (41:56):
too.
So at this point, You'reachieving a certain level of
success.
And as you mentioned, there wereother artists who only had
singles deals.
You guys were doing albums andyou're touring.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.

(42:41):
only the start of things, or didyou have a sense?
I can

SPEAKER_02 (42:46):
speak for myself, but I can speak for myself as
far as what I felt.
I never thought when we firststarted making money, you
couldn't tell me that it wasn'tgoing to always come in.
So that was one thing,misunderstanding of that
situation.
But it was you couldn't alsotell me that I would have this

(43:06):
conversation with you or peopleoverseas would still be going
crazy over something over lyricswe did in the studio in 87
people are still singing itsaying that that's my favorite
song still making a big deal iyou had me come through to do a
panel and two days before youwas like yo can you perform that

(43:27):
song because i wasn't performingand be love was in atlanta and i
never performed that song bymyself and and and it was like
johnny juice helped me putsomething together but it was
just like You couldn't tell methat these things would still be
going on where people don't wantto always hear something that
was made six months ago.
People are still singing ourlyrics from that we went in the

(43:49):
studio from 87.
That you couldn't tell me.
You couldn't also tell me.
I knew hip hop was here to stay,but there's no way that I
actually knew it would be thisbillion dollar entity.
And this is just me speaking.
I don't know what everybody elsefelt.
There's no way.
I think that

SPEAKER_03 (44:06):
we were.

SPEAKER_02 (44:07):
I knew that this would be what it is now.
There's no way I knew

SPEAKER_03 (44:12):
that.
I think through the influence ofour parents, we stayed somewhat
grounded.
When it came to hip hop, hip hopmade everybody kind of
rebel-ish.
You want to get on.
You want to put your songs out.
You want to rap about the thingsyou see.
You want to rap about your hood.
You want to rap about thestreets in your hood.

(44:34):
Our parents were always prettygrounded when it came to us in
regards to what we would do.
They pretty much demanded thatwe had something else going on.
For instance, we had StrongIsland now.
Strong Island was playing allover the radio, but my mom was
always saying something like,well, what's going to happen
when that's all over?

(44:55):
What's going to be your career?
What will you do?
As a result of it today, whatmany people don't realize and
understand is that I have a 40year career that I do.
I've been doing the same thingfor 40 years.
And I think that that grounding.
And

SPEAKER_00 (45:12):
what is that?
What have you been doing?

SPEAKER_03 (45:15):
Um, I actually, I have my own company, which is
called the get down lounge.
And then I also, I work foranother major, major company.
Um, and I do a lot of financework and stuff like that.
So I've been doing finance forlike 40 years.
Um, And again, if we were goingto make records under our

(45:36):
parents' roof, we also had toturn around and show them that
we were doing something else.
We couldn't just lay around inour parents' house during the
day, writing lyrics and stuff.
Most of us went to work.
Back then, I went into thebanking industry, which later
on, like I said, I switched overto the finance industry.

(45:56):
But AJ was also doingarchitectural drafting.
And a lot of times that we wouldgo to the studio, we would go
and pick AJ up from thearchitectural draft

SPEAKER_02 (46:12):
house.
I was working for this company.
this place that did toiletpartitions for major buildings.
And I used to do the, I used todraft them up.
I used to have to draw them forthe place.
But I actually went to anarchitectural, I went to
Amityville Drafting andArchitectural Drafting and
Technical Institute.
I was in there with Dave from DeLa.

(46:34):
And it's funny because neitherone of us ended up doing that
for a career.
I do want to interject though, iwas a rebel for no reason at all
i really was not the nine tofive guy ever i've always had
some kind of side businessmaking flyers or doing something

(46:56):
and you know always doingsomething non-traditional I
didn't have the structure likeB-Love has a pension and a
retirement, the 401k.
I was never that dude.
I was always doing something.
After JVC, I was writing formagazines.
I was a freelance writer.
And then I did promotions andpublicity, you know, independent

(47:19):
for independent labels andunderground radio.
I was always like hustling, likelegal hustling.
I've had a lot of day jobs.
I can't say I had any of them.
I think I worked one place threeyears and I was looking for a
gold watch because that was likeforever for me.
Like I never, I never really.
So I actually differ a littlebit.

(47:45):
I didn't listen as I wassupposed to.
My parents were also telling methe same thing, but I was always
trying to do my own thing.
And so I just be real aboutthat.
Like I just, I wasn't, you know,I wasn't, I wasn't.
AJ

SPEAKER_03 (48:01):
wasn't, AJ wasn't, AJ wasn't the conforming teen.
I

SPEAKER_02 (48:05):
was a graffiti artist.
I used to, I used to like thedefaced property.
I was a graffiti artist first.
I used to, I just was into allkinds of crazy stuff.
And, and, and, you know, so itjust was like, um, that's the, I
mean, even now I have my own, Ihave a publication or something.
I've had, I've had jobs thatI've had to have, you know, when

(48:25):
things were slow, but you know,they were never long-term jobs.
And even when I moved to Atlantafor a while, I was working for a
big temp agency that kept meworking.
I worked three months here, acouple weeks here.
It was just enough in betweenwriting the articles and waiting
for them checks from the sourceand whoever else.
So that's just been my life.

(48:47):
I've always been that.

SPEAKER_00 (48:50):
So the two of you have done a lot of different
things, but as you said a littlewhile ago, it's amazing that
people are still listening toyour music.
And if we can just go back tothe music for a minute, um, you
know, um, Man, one of the thingsthat we were talking about also
a little bit earlier was justyour unique sound, whether it's

(49:12):
the scratches throughout therecords.
You were also making music at atime when all the samples did
not have to be cleared.
The fact that a lot of artiststoday are solo artists, you were
a group, which is something thatI miss in hip-hop.
I love music groups.

(49:32):
Tell me a little bit about Alittle bit more about that first
album and how you went aboutmaking the second album.

SPEAKER_02 (49:40):
I want

SPEAKER_00 (49:40):
to

SPEAKER_02 (49:41):
add one thing.
We didn't know it at the time,but Public Enemy had this sound
and it was loud with sirens andall these things.
The guitar riff in Strong Islandwas like this distinct sound.
different sound.
And I think that was, that'swhat made everybody, that's what

(50:04):
drove it crazy.
Cause that, like, you know,there was a few groups that had
this, that a louder set, likePublic Enemy was loud in their
production.
The sirens, there was a lot ofthings going on in there.
That's, that, that, that, thatguitar, that, that riff, That's
what everybody knows that.
They remember that.

SPEAKER_03 (50:24):
I think Public Enemy, I think what Public Enemy
for us, when we first heard,they had made a couple of
records.
And then when they came out andthey put out Rebel Without a
Pause, we were like, yo, thisright here, it's ridiculous.
And I think the benefits ofliving in Long Island versus
living in the city is I would goout to the city and I would hear

(50:46):
the DJs cutting up a lot of thebreakbeats that was used
throughout the first or secondgeneration of hip-hop.
But in Long Island, we listenedto soft rock music.
We listened to rock and roll.
We listened to everything.
So when times came about, itwasn't very uncommon for us to

(51:08):
take a song by, let's say, Hall&Oates or something and try to...
loop that and do some kind ofrhymes to it and i think that's
what brought on like the uniquesound of long island because
most of the artists at that timemost of the big artists they did
record at charlie murata'sstudio

SPEAKER_02 (51:26):
in suffolk county so

SPEAKER_03 (51:29):
right so all of the songs that at times people would
put out they would be originalsongs and they would have the
loop on it so we were we werepretty close to what the
original narrative of the songwas when we rapped on it.
We weren't remaking it.
We weren't playing it with thedrum tracks.
You know, we would sample, andthen we would put a drum track

(51:50):
underneath to highlight it andstuff.
But the original sample wassitting on there.
But I think, again, the abilityto use so many songs that we
came up on.
Like, you know, face it, in thecity, you weren't going to go to
the city and hear somebodyrapping over...
You heard mostly breakbeats.
Billy Joel or Pat Benatar songor something like

SPEAKER_02 (52:13):
that.
Other than Run DMC, who didincorporate some rock, most of
the music at that time was likebreakbeats, like, you know,
breakbeats, the traditionalbreakbeats parts and, you know,
the James Brown loop and thesamples.
And it was a lot of that music.

(52:33):
Um, you did have a few peoplethat were doing something
different, um, incorporatingother stuff.
And like I said, Run DMC, youknow, did the incorporated the
rock thanks to, uh, to, uh, RickRubin, um, influence.
But, um, yeah, you had, um, alot more break beats and we had
a lot more music and even with,and even credit the EPMD, uh,

(52:57):
they had more of the funk soundof the West Coast.
The West Coast was using funkmore.
They were incorporating thatfunk.
So even that was different.
The difference also was in thatera, you're talking about in
that time, every group.
So you heard Rakim, you knew itwas Rakim.

(53:17):
You heard Public Enemy, you knewit was Public Enemy.
You heard Biz, you knew it wasBiz.
And even the ones that cameafter, you know, when Keith
Murray came, you knew it wasKeith Murray when you heard us.
But it was like everybody hadtheir own sound.
Craig Mack, when he did MC Easyand Troop and then did Craig
Mack, everybody had their ownsound.

(53:38):
You could identify them.
Now you listen to the radio.
I remember coming back fromAtlanta for the summer, one time
in the summer, and I I was like,oh, man, that must be that new
Lox song.
And it wasn't the Lox.
And I heard like 10 songs that Ithought was the Lox, and it
wasn't the Lox.
There was like 10 songs in a rowthat sounded like the Lox.

(54:00):
None of them was the Lox.
You didn't have that in thatera.
You didn't mix Big Daddy Kaneand KRS-Up.
You knew X-Klan.
Everybody had a distinct sound.
You could hear something and belike, oh, that's so-and-so.
you could automatically, youknew who it was if you knew the
artist, you know.
And I want to say.
It's different than the music atthe time.

SPEAKER_03 (54:21):
And I want to quickly say, I want to quickly
say a big shout, big respect toCraig Mack.
Rest in peace.
Craig Mack has always, rest inpeace, definitely.
Craig Mack has been around us.
Yes.
He was coming around when he wasa kid on a yellow 10 speed.
Craig Mack would comb theneighborhood and he would crash

(54:43):
everybody's window where theyhad a studio.
And I want to say big shouts outto him because he's definitely
one of the most dedicatedartists that I've ever seen in
the game.
I've sat in the studio with himmany a time.
him and Lenny Ace Morrow whenthey were working on Project

(55:03):
Funk the World initially.
And for a lot of people thatdon't know, the introduction to
Project Funk the World isactually JVC Force's Deja Vu
from our second album.
You know, he was very dedicated,you know, night after night
being in the studio perfectingthe sound, which he called like,
you know, the funk sound.

(55:24):
You know, Craig Mack's style wasso...
different than when he startedwhen he started rapping in the
beginning you really couldn'tunderstand what he was saying

SPEAKER_02 (55:33):
yeah futuristic form yeah he was

SPEAKER_03 (55:35):
i don't think it was until he got up with easy mo b
and easy mo b calmed it down alittle and they came with flavor
in the air and then you couldkind of understand like what he
was saying but prior to that youwouldn't have known what craig
mack was saying on his recordsbecause he was kind of like more
like a flame flame It was hisstyle, but don't get me wrong,

(55:55):
it was funky.
I've also got an opportunity tosit in the studio with him when
he did Get Retarded.
It was at Diamond J's house.
And I remember that

SPEAKER_02 (56:11):
day they were

SPEAKER_03 (56:12):
recording that song and they picked up the, um, the,
the break beat of a one man bandplays on and on.
And I remember the day thatdiamond J said, you know, this
needs something on it.
Like, you know, like a zoom,zoom, zoom, zoom.
And then the whole room startszoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom,
zoom, zoom, zoom.
And then that became a part ofit.
Now record came out, but again,just want to give some really,

(56:34):
really big shout outs to CraigMack.
Not only is he one of myfavorite rap artists, but also
was a good friend to all of usand one of the most genuine guys
that we could ever

SPEAKER_02 (56:44):
meet.
He used to come by the house.
My mother be like, he was likethat friend that came by in the
morning and never left.
Come take a shower.
When that boy going home, thatwas Craig Mack at my house.
But, you know, so going from thefirst album to the second album.
So B-Boy...
We're having issues with B-Boy.

(57:05):
We're not getting the money.
They did great in the promotion.
They promoted the hell of us,got us lots of shows and stuff.
But, you know, when it came tolike our sales and stuff, we
wasn't really seeing it.
We were starting to seedifferences.
Like, you know, we were pushingfor a video and it wasn't doing
that and other things.
So we ended up getting out ofthe contract.

(57:27):
We meet the guys from IslandWarlock and they...
they turn us on to their lawyerto help us get out of the
contract.
And Michael Turok, and credit toMichael Turok because we didn't
have the money to pay him forthe hours he put in.

(57:48):
But he was so, like he was somoved by, how messed up this
contract was and how dirty theywere.
Like, he took it as a personalvendetta.
Like, he was going after them toget us off.
Funny thing is, so then henegotiates our new contract and

(58:08):
negotiates our fee and theupfront money and stuff.
The label, Adler's Warlock,Adler's, he ends up representing
us.
We end up stealing it from him.
So he ended up being our lawyer.
So we get in there, and theywere based in Coney Island,
ironically, Coney Island, CI.
And we're going there, and thatwas a different experience,

(58:33):
working on the second album,because they had a hit with the
Jungle Brothers' Girl, OurHouse, with a hip-hop track.

UNKNOWN (58:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (58:41):
And they had big success with that.
They also had MC Surge and theyhad some other people.
Not only

SPEAKER_03 (58:48):
that, they wanted all creative control for the
first time.

SPEAKER_02 (58:52):
Well, yeah, they wanted creative control.
So we did this one song that wasa hip hop record in line with
what we do.
And they wanted us to make, oh,you got to have a hip house
record because they had successwith that.
So they were looking for thatnext big hip house record.
So we ended up changing the songfrom a hip hop record to a hip

(59:15):
house record, changing the titleof it to fit the thing.
And it just- We had songs-B-Love and Kurt, B-Love and
Kurt, because they were DJs atthe time and house music was big
and they started playing morehouse at parties.

(59:36):
I wasn't really, I was like areal hip hop head.
And while I love Girl, I HouseYou, I really wasn't a house
head like that.
So we did the record, for me,reluctantly.
But it was them trying to changeus from what we were.
And again, when we would just goin the studio before and come

(59:58):
out with what we did, that was awhole different experience for
us.
And it was an adjustment.
It was a little bit of

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:07):
an adjustment.
50% of that album wasn't R-TrueSound.
Songs like JVC is in the house,Smooth and Mellow.
Smooth

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:19):
and Mellow, I love.
Smooth and Mellow, I love.
JVC in the house is a houserecord.
It's a forced thing, which waswe got our own thing.
We got our own thing beat, butthey wanted to change it.
It's a forced thing.
It made it a house record, a hiphouse kind of record.
Those records wasn't really...
us, well, it definitely wasn'tme.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:41):
And how did your fans respond to the change in
your sound?

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:45):
Well, the hip house was good, and people liked the
hip house stuff, and itdidn't...
Now, we didn't get...
We didn't get the recognitionthat we got from the first
album.
Ratings when people were goingfor mics in the source, I think
our first album was rated a lothigher than the second album, as

(01:01:06):
far as that's concerned.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:07):
But there's many people out there that

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:11):
when they

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:11):
listen to Doing Damage and they listen to
Forcefield, they say, you know,both of those are really, really
dope albums.
Like, they love them both.
You know what the song says?
Some of the songs that was onForce Field that was kind of
like us, like Intro to Dance,Keep a Handle, Stop and Listen.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:30):
Tear to Show Up is going to be one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:33):
Tear to Show Up.
Those are songs that you canhear.
It goes with the same cadence aswhat was going on in the Doing
Damage album.
But then there's a couple ofother songs that it's like,
okay, you know what?
Well, we're still going throughthe force field album we're
still a group that's like youknow what like how do we get
played on a daytime radio yeahso you know we went along with

(01:01:55):
um you know making some songsthat you know again they would
have the house music in it iwould have the r b i believe
hip-hop was coming through atime also that it was almost
like every third artist wasputting out a song in the
background was almost like thedon't make me over sybil beat uh
in the background uh You know,the...

(01:02:17):
And we tried that also.
And I believe we did one songlike that, which was called Envy
for Another.
But again, you know, peopleloved that album too.
And I think what helped it allwas...
People took a genuine liking toJVC Force after Strong Island.
So it was almost like for ourtrue fans, which are not the
normal fans, me and A, you know,we love to say like, you know,

(01:02:41):
hey, you know, we got a cultfollowing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:44):
It is almost like a cult following.
They loved everything that we

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:48):
did.
They allowed us to do everythingwe were doing.
They allowed us to doeverything.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:53):
Some fans won't allow an artist to grow.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:59):
And they want to hear the same thing over and
over.
Our fans did allow us toexperiment and rocked with us
with the experiments and allowedus to try other things.
And still, it wasn't like, oh,man, I'm not feeling them.
They're not doing Strong Alley.
But, you know, they allowed usYou know, they grew with us.

(01:03:20):
They allowed us to

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:21):
take our chances.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:22):
Right.
And they grew with us.
So that was a great thing withthe fans that we had.
And I also always want to say,and Beat Love always says this
too, yo, I have to give mad loveto all our fans because the fact
that we're having thisconversation right now is only

(01:03:43):
due to our fans.
It's our great international.
We have a large internationalfollowing.
Which are?

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:49):
Which are no longer fans to us.
They're fans of fanatics andfam.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:53):
Fam, yeah.
Because a lot of times I'llinteract with people on social
media and they'll be like, oh myGod, I can't believe I met you.
And you know, some people thathave been some of the coolest
relationships I've had in theindustry started off with
somebody who was a fan and westarted hanging out and we
actually became friends.

(01:04:13):
And there's like some DJs on theWest Coast and some people, you
know, all over the place.
Those are people that were, theystarted out, we met because they
were a fan of our music.
And that's a telling story.
I have long relationships with alot of people because they
started out as a fan of ourmusic.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:33):
So let me ask you, you have all those people out
there who still love your music.
And we just had, not too longago, the 50th anniversary.
I'm sure there were all kinds ofoffers coming in for JVC forced
to reunite and to do more music.

(01:04:54):
There

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:56):
was a story.
There was a guy.
So there was an offer.
The person contacted B-Love.
I'm not going to say Nick.
The person contacted B-Loveabout performing in the Bronx
for the 50th anniversary.
But I guess they didn'tunderstand that he was in
Georgia.
So he was like, yo, my man AJ,my partner AJ lives in Mount
Vernon.

(01:05:16):
So maybe he could do it.
So first off, this is the Bronx.
I got away with what I did atyour place because it was Long
Island, and Long Island wantedto hear the song.
That's the only reason I gotaway with that, the way I did.
But we're talking about theBronx.
So they wouldn't let me.
And they had one DJ.

(01:05:37):
They had one DJ who was DJingfor all the groups.
Right.
With the exception of JohnnyJuice DJ for Public Enemy and
also for Melly Mel and whoeverwas up there with Melly Mel.
And he talked to Chuck aboutChuck actually performing and

(01:06:00):
actually coming out.
When Chuck performed, I doStrong Island and I go back out
and Chuck finished.
They wouldn't let me do that.
But they wanted me to go onafter Chuck Public Enemy and
Melly Mel and whoever in theBronx.
I was not doing that with a DJthat I did not know.
I was not doing that by myself.

(01:06:20):
If you love me, I'm down foranywhere, any day.
But I was not doing that.
I was not playing myself in theBronx.
And I live in close proximity tothe Bronx, the street I used to
live on.
The yellow line down the middleof the street across the street
was the Bronx and my side wasMount Vernon.
So I lived too close and I neverwould have lived that.
I just wasn't putting myself.

(01:06:41):
So I didn't go to that becausethey didn't want to fly B up
here.
And other people had talked tous, but because B-Love is in
Georgia and I'm in New York, Itwas like they wasn't trying to
pay for us to come.
They didn't

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:57):
have the budget at the time to fly me in.
I believe the show was beingsponsored by a company that
later on cut a check soeverybody could get a little bit
of money at the time.
But in those days, I should sayin most days, I'm in New York a
lot, but I had just come back.

(01:07:17):
And one of the things that I'velearned through the game is,
hey, you know, A certain amountof this, I'm not always supposed
to come out of the pocket.
You know, if you're constantlycoming out of the pocket, you
know what I'm saying?
Zero plus zero equals zero.
Right.
You know, so my whole thing waslike, you know, hey, you know
what?
I love my fan base.
I'll come out there.
I'll do the show.
Hey, fly me out there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:37):
Well, isn't there any financial situation that
could develop?
I mean, if you guys were to makeit official that you guys were
going to Reunite.
I mean, every group does it atsome point.
Let me take this.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:51):
To answer your question, if there is a promoter
who is serious and wants to talkto us, we are ready to perform.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:00):
Well, here's the situation also.
Since that time, Bob, we've goneahead and we've created that
situation on our own.
Really, when I say that, I mean,I'm always in New York.
Sometimes AJ's in Atlanta.
You know, we plan to come like,for instance, I'm coming to New
York in a couple of weeks sothat me and him can get together

(01:08:20):
because we do get together andwe do do things.
But we learned how to go aheadand make those means happen on
our own.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:30):
So we do a lot of things.
We're still doing rehearsals.
Um, sometimes it has to be overzoom, like, uh, lyrically, you
know, to make sure we lyricallyare in tune and still lyrically
together.
Um, and like you said, when hecomes in 2021, we, um, We
performed, it was just like asmall little performance for

(01:08:52):
like family and friends.
We did a little, we did StrongIsland.
We did, you know, we did StrongIsland.
So we've done and we've gottentogether other times than we've
done live.
We'll just be live and we'lljust be sitting down and we'll
be working on, we'll be doingroutines or whatever, you know
what I'm saying?
And interacting with the fansand friends and stuff, family

(01:09:13):
and friends.
We've done

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:14):
lives, we've done lives, we've done lives on a
couple of different occasionsand most of the time that we
will do a passionate live that'sgoing over two hours is it's
been the times that our fathershas passed away.
Right.
Mr.
Woodson, rest in peace to mydad.
The last podcast that we didwas, you know, it was about two

(01:09:35):
and a half hours long.
We performed almost 15 songs onthat podcast for the folks.
Oh, wow.
That was when

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:42):
my dad passed away.
It was like, even if it was justthe verse or two, but yeah, we
went through, we went throughsongs.
A couple of freestyles.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:50):
That was on Long Island.
That was on Long Island.
We had friends coming throughthe podcast all day.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:55):
Right.
And it was in B-Love's, and itwas in this garage where we used
to be and rehearse.
Where it all began.
And where it all began.
Um, and we were together andthat literally was my first time
in centralized up in decadesbecause I had moved to Mount
Vernon.
And then, um, I had, even when Ilived in Long Island, I had

(01:10:16):
moved to Bayshore and Brentwoodand, and, and, and, and, um, uh,
but then I was in Atlanta for 12years.
So, you know, That was my firsttime actually going through
Central Islip in like decades.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:28):
Tell me about this garage.
Like people talk about garagebands and they credit the
suburbs to being a place whereyoung kids can play their
instruments in the garage andthen go on to bigger things.
But you guys were making musictoo.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:43):
We had two garages and Kurt was a traditional
garage, like a garage that thegarage door opened and the car
could go inside like a garage.
Dee loves how his father turnedthe garage into a room.
That was like his room where hisequipment was.
It didn't have the garage door.
It had a wall.

(01:11:04):
It was like he converted thatgarage into a

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:06):
room.
Bricks on the front.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:08):
Right.
So it was a room.
It was an extra room.
It was the garage, but it waslike where his equipment was,
where his collection of recordswas.
We would go in there and wewould play around and experiment
and all that.
So those are two differentgarage And then there was my
basement at my mother's housewhere we would always get
together and work on stufftogether, too.

(01:11:29):
But the two garages weredifferent dynamics.
Like Kurt's garage, likeliterally the garage door was
open.
You could drive by and walk byand see us and hear us.
And people would come by.
Sometimes B would be at college.
And, you know, we had timeswhere...
Craig Mack and Keith Solo andKeith Murray before they were

(01:11:53):
making records would be thereand other things and other
people would come by.
So that was a different dynamic.
B's Garage, like I said, was aroom.
It was made more into a room andit was more private.
So that's where we were.
So it was two differentdynamics.
But those are the places werehearsed.
Those are the places weperformed and worked on

(01:12:15):
routines.
Like you said, my house, wemostly worked and writing and
stuff and had meetings andstuff.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:23):
Let me say this.
Let me say this.
So when you say the dynamics ofa garage, going back into the
80s before we even startedmaking records, you know, and
let me go back even a littlefurther than that.
You know, for every kid that hasgotten into hip-hop, they've
come about when their parentsweren't home and pretty much

(01:12:45):
attacked their set in some kindof way.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:47):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:48):
These men back then had a nice set, you know, two
turntables, a mixer, amp, nicespeakers, record collection.
You know, when our parentsweren't home, that's when we
took advantage of jumping allover their set.
Our parents in the beginning,like, for instance, my father,
he couldn't understand, well,why are you pulling the record
back and forth?
You're supposed to, like, justplay it and put it back in a
label and...

(01:13:08):
put it back in the plastic andpack it away.
So he didn't understand all ofthat.
So we had to sneak and do a lotof that stuff when he wasn't
home.
In my garage, as opposed toKurt's garage, Kurt's garage is
where But we practiced routinesa lot.
And we made a lot of cassettesand different things like that.
My garage was actually the placein the neighborhood to where we

(01:13:28):
were throwing house parties.
We'd have the whole neighborhoodthere.
We'd have the blocks lined upwith people that couldn't...
A house in the new developmentat the time couldn't even fit
the amount of blocks of peoplewe had getting...
better to come into theseparties.
So, and my parents were moreliberal back then, you know,
they pretty much let me dowhatever I wanted to do growing
up from a young age.

(01:13:50):
So we throw these parties, buthow many people are you
expecting here tonight?
Oh, no more than 30.
Next thing you know, there'slike 400 people on the block.
There's beer bottles all overthe block, everything.
So it's, it's, it's, that's thedifference.
And I think for when we talkabout like, you know, the
difference between, um, Kurt'sgarage and my garage, my garage,

(01:14:10):
a lot more has occurred in thatgarage when it came to learning
the game.
Cause even before hip hop was,it's like, I live in the South.
And I say, when I first got downhere to the South in 1996, uh,
Even when I was coming down herearound 1990 for the Freakniks
and things like that.

(01:14:31):
When you went into the clubs,the clubs didn't have a lot of
down south music.
90% of the music that they wereplaying in the clubs was East
Coast music because they weren'tmaking a lot of down south music
like that no more.
It was even like at a time inNew York where hip hop was
getting bigger.
But R&B and let's say like theLisa Lisa and the Cult Jam kind

(01:14:54):
of songs, they were big songstoo.
And you had to play them in aparty.
So the party was 50-50 split.
So doing those parties throughthe years and having that many
people dancing in your house, itallowed us an opportunity to see
these are the songs that peopleare going to dance to forever.
It was almost like we had a aforesight of what was going to

(01:15:17):
come.
Like, yo, we've been dancing offof this song for the last 10
years, 12 years.
It still ain't went out.
When it comes to, that's thesongs that we picked up and
that's the songs that we tookthe chances on and we sampled.
And like I said, at that pointin time, you know, migrating to
AJ's house to write, going toKurt's house to make the
cassette.
Because Kurt wasn't alwaysliving in his house that had the

(01:15:40):
garage.
He moved to his aunt's house orsomething sometime later.
So it began going down into hisaunt's basement to where his
room was and doing stuff overthere.
But again, the house partydynamic is something else that
helped us out tremendously whenit came to what songs will be

(01:16:02):
sampled, what songs will belooped.
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:05):
Yeah.
You used so many...
really well-known songs,especially on that first album.
Tell me about some of thesamples that you guys were proud
of that you used, and that evenlater on, other groups would
sample.
I'm thinking of He Got Game andstuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:27):
Well, in a second, I know Puff used a DeBarge sample
for Biggie.
That was on the third.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:39):
That was on big tracks.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:43):
That was on

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:44):
big tracks.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:44):
Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:48):
Moving forward a little to that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:50):
I was going to say the sample, the answer, other
than the Free the Pain, I lovethat Louie Louie doing damage.
I love that sample.
I love rhyming over Bounce,Rock, Skate, Roll.
I mean, that's something we usedto rock in the parks and stuff
before we was making records.
I love that.
But the Louie Louie sample waslike a big sample, another big

(01:17:12):
song for us, the title song forDoing Damage.
That sample for me was a dopesample.
Tear to Show Up.
Tear to Show Up also.
Well, that was one of the firstalbums.
Tear to Show Up is my favoritealbum.
song.
Keep a handle.
That Dennis Edwards song, I lovethat.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:31):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:32):
I can almost...
I love that sample, yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:35):
Yeah, I can almost hear us rapping on that song,
and then I can hear Biggiecoming on years later with his
Get Money.
And the concept of JVC, as westart that song, we say, click
the cameras, pop the cassettes,AJ is on the mic, and you could
bet I'll be the P-O-E-T.
That's the same again, that'sthe same case that Biggie
started that get money song.

(01:17:58):
You know, like that's the stylethat they were rapping in.
So to me, I felt like, and Inever take anything away from
another artist because I lovehip hop way too much.
And I understand that we've hadthe opportunity to sample.
So other people will sample anduse ideas, but it allowed us to
understand at times that we hadsome influence, even though we
weren't as big as like some ofthe other groups in this, you

(01:18:20):
know, doing shows wise, I shouldsay, but it, We had influence on
some of the biggest hip hopartists of all times and the
countless people that use StrongIsland.
The

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:32):
countless

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:45):
people that use Strong Island.
But it's really just the wholeproduction and the echo and the
reverb.
And it just loops.

(01:19:07):
And I could just listen to it onrepeat over and over again.
And I never tire of it for somereason.
It's just a great record.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:16):
Since this is long on, I always want to give
credit.
Red Alert is the person whobroke the record.
Second to that, the only person,I mean, the next person who
played Strong Island the mostand still plays it to this day
is Wildman Steve.
Wildman Steve has shown JBCForce probably the most love

(01:19:37):
outside of Red Alert.
And I always want to give himcredit because he even, and his
show is even called like theStrong Island Sound or
something.
He rides the banner of StrongIsland to this day, and he still
bigs us up and still plays thesong.
I've watched the show, thelittle pocket, the show that,

(01:19:59):
you know, the online thing, andhe still plays it now to this
day.
So shout out to wild man, Steve,who has shown us the most love.
Shout out wild man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And shout out.
And again, you know, rest inpeace.
Yeah.
Got to give him.
Cause we've spent.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:20):
Yeah.
I remember when we used to go upthere and we used to do the
shows and there was a group thatwas always...
asking to take the mic inbetween our shows.
They were called the P5.
And they later on became leadersof the new school.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:33):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I would go with the Wildman andSteve show the most.
And Buster and them, see, Busterand Charlie, when they would get
on the mic, they would stay onthe mic and they would never
want to get off.
So Steve wouldn't let themfreestyle sometimes.
So they would be like, hey, yougot to kick off the freestyle.
He'll let you freestyle.
And then they would take over.
Like, they just, you know, Iremember them sitting there

(01:20:55):
working on it.
to hearing them working onlittle things, like in the
hallway and stuff.
Because I was always, I lovedradio stations.
So I would hang out up

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:04):
there.
There was always a, they weresuper dope, man.
There was always like an onlinepassion when it came to hip hop
from certain groups from LongIsland.
And it was also, the

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:16):
first time I seen somebody, so, you know, they
would have the marathon thingwhere they would raise money
like once a year.
And they would have like, andI'm, people would call up and
give shout outs and CharlieBrown would answer the phone and
then he would write it all down.
And then he would wrap the shoutouts.
And that was like, that was likereally, really dope.

(01:21:37):
Like he would just make him, hewould wrap, he would go through
the list of the shout outs andwhat they did, but he would wrap
it though.
And it was dope.
And that was like, yo, thisdude's dope.
Yeah.
Well, I

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:47):
used to go to, I used to go to, I used to go to,
In the early days, I used to goto, when AJ mentioned early in
the podcast that he went todrafting school with Dave, I
actually worked back then withMace's mom from De La Soul.
So I got a good opportunity tomeet Mace.
And then again, we knew, one ofour friends knew a guy in

(01:22:12):
Amityville, named Paul Carey whoand that was our friend Mike
Walsh he knew a guy named PaulCarey who I guess was going to
the military and he was givingPrince Paul Paul Houston his DJ
equipment and I got theopportunity at the time to
listen to I got the opportunityat the time to listen to De La

(01:22:36):
Soul It was a long, like, it wasalmost like an hour.
They were standing up there justgoing, plug one, plug two, start
the record over.
And they were, they wereperfectionists.
Now I say that to say, I've alsohad the opportunity of being at
Macy's house a lot of times andwatching them realizing the
dynamics of their group,realizing how much of a role

(01:22:59):
Pasta Noose, Mercer played inthe production of, Because I got
to see them rehearsing certainthings also.
A third time with them is theorganization that they had as a
group when it came to makingdecisions.
They would never make a decisionin the same room as the group.

(01:23:21):
They would go into another room,close the door, have their
conversation, come out, tell youwhat they thought.
They were very, very organized.
The whole...
They were very organized when itcame to a Long Island group.
I've seen that same disciplinesitting there sometimes when I
went to see...

(01:23:41):
brown charlie brown and i wentto his house and his mom would
be like you know going upstairsthey all upstairs and they were
up there writing writing writingwriting i've seen the dynamics
of some of these groups and likei said when most people would
want to hang out on a saturdayor go to the city or drink beer
with their friends and stuffthese guys were writing so there
was no mystery to me how de lasoul became like one of the most

(01:24:05):
working most powerful groups inthe music game in my opinion um
They had that.
And we tried to have that alsothroughout the years as JVC.
We did pay dues.
We did, you know, the dues backin the days, we'll go ahead and
like make sure it pays for ouroutfits when we got to do things
and things like that or buyrecords and things like that.

(01:24:29):
But those groups had way morediscipline than we ever had.
And I just want to give them bigshouts.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:36):
And leaders benefited from the bomb squad,
public enemy boot camp.
They had to be there every dayat certain times.
They had to do certain things.
He really liked that making aband type thing.
They really got under thementorship of the whole bomb

(01:24:59):
squad and the public enemy.
So they had that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:05):
One of those members of Leader School told me about
two years ago, three years ago,they said, you know, do y'all
realize like if it wasn't fory'all, excuse me, if it wasn't
for y'all, Electra would havenever came up to Long Island
looking for us because nobodybelieved in Long Island groups

(01:25:26):
at the time.
They said, because of y'allsingle, they came out there and
they signed us and they realizedlike long Island had great
groups and stuff like that.
And, um, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 (01:25:35):
I think that was a great thing about the song.
It was, you know, like whatQueens bridge did for that
Shands record did for thatregion was South Bronx did for
that region.
Like KRS gave them an anthemthat they didn't have before.
like the songs about Brooklyn,like even the song Puerto Rico,

(01:25:57):
like those all were anthems forthe regions.
And we gave Strong Island ananthem it didn't have.
And many people were like, yeah,we from Strong Island.
And it was just like, you know,like Hev did with Money on the
Mount.
It was a

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:14):
different sense of pride.
It was a different sense ofpride now.
Like, you weren't afraid anymoreto go out to the city and say
you were from Long Island.
It gave you a different kind ofrecognition.
When you went to the city nowand you said, yeah, I'm from
Long Island, most peoplewouldn't say anymore, like, oh,
y'all are some...

(01:26:36):
This, that, and the third.
Y'all ain't hip-hop.
This, that, and the third.
People would just generally hatebecause they're like, oh, y'all
got houses.
Y'all got this.
Y'all got that.
But they never realized thatmost of the people that lived in
the city moved their bad kidsout to Long Island.
So Long Island has its badparts.
You know, like I tell people allthe time, I've seen a lot more
crime happen in Long Island thanI've seen happening in the

(01:26:57):
boroughs.
And it's because Long Island isknown to do things when it's
ready.
If

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:01):
you don't change your mentality...
Changing your location does notchange who you are.
So if you do it all the time.
I'll do nothing for you.
Yeah, if you're doing stuff inthe Bronx, if you live in a
certain way in the Bronx andBrooklyn and Queens or wherever,
and you move to Long Island, ifyour mind state hasn't changed,
you're still the same individualthat is now in Long Island.

(01:27:22):
And now you got a different areawhere people don't know you.
So you're kind of a little worsethan you was when you were where
you were before.
So yeah, we had the area, but itgave, it gave, it gave us, it
gave the area of the region.
It gave the region, uh, anthem.
Like I said, the way you haveput.
Yeah.
Right.
The way heavy D put Mount Vernonon the rap map.

(01:27:43):
Like people were, People, when Ifirst, funny thing, when I first
moved, that was the secondgrade, and they usually do that
thing, where are you from?
And I said, Mount Vernon.
And my teacher said, oh, whereGeorge Washington's from?
Mount Vernon, Virginia.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:00):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:00):
She didn't, like, David, I don't even know if she
knew there was a Mount Vernon.
And then a bunch of our friendswent to college and they all met
a friend from Mount Vernon andthey all came back.
Yo, buddy, you're in MountVernon.
I said, yeah, I've been tellingyou about Mount Vernon.
Like it was just like after Ihad made the record, like, you
know, so like Long, StrongIsland did that for Long Island

(01:28:22):
as well.
And I'm glad to have taken partin something that, that, you
know, is an anthem for theregion and,

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:30):
In

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:32):
rap circles, it will be forever known.
It's like Wu-Tang forever madeStaten Island Shaolin.
And all these other people willalways refer to Long Island as
Strong Island.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:44):
You did it.
So let me ask you, this is theunfortunate part.
Eventually, the group disbanded.
Can you tell me about whateverhappened with that record that
didn't come out?
Why the group eventually brokeup when it did?
Let me...
Let me say this.

SPEAKER_03 (01:29:02):
Before we even go there, because I'll go right
into that.
But before we even go there,before the group broke up, when
we talk about people like justloving your music and just being
a fan, one of the DJs that werebig in the city at the time told
me, he said, you know, you guysare my favorite group.

(01:29:22):
Every time I would go into thecity, because we traveled back
then on the Long Island Railroaddown to the city, or driving
into the city, just about everynight of the week going to
different clubs and stuff.
He used to tell me like, waittill I put your record on, watch
this, watch this.
And the crowd would just alwaysgo wild.

(01:29:44):
He told me, he said, you're myfavorite group.
We had a relationship, we weregood.
And that relationship later onled to him being at Big Beat
Records with Craig Kelman.
And we did the song Big Tracks.
And the executive producer andthe person who I'm talking about
is DJ Skinny Bones, StretchArmstrong, Adrian Bartos,

(01:30:05):
whatever you want to call him.

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:07):
Yeah, he's going to hate you because he hates that
anybody remembers that he wasoriginally called DJ Skinny
Bones.
Well,

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:14):
maybe he should call me.
Maybe he should call me then.
I do it all the time, too.
He hates that, though.
Needless to say.
He said, you guys are one of myfavorite groups and I got a
situation right now.
And he said, I want to bring youguys over.
He was instrumental in bringingus over to Big Beat.
And as a result of it, StretchArmstrong is the executive

(01:30:36):
producer of Big Tracks.
He's the executive producer ofBig Tracks.
And going into the last album,as you were stating, Big Tracks
was an indication of where wewere going hip-hop-wise because
it was one of our bestput-together records that we had
ever made.

(01:30:57):
It contained a lot of elements.
It contained a lot ofeverything.
And that's the direction that wewere going in regards to the
third album.
The third album, we recorded andwe have it.
What we eventually turned aroundand did was put it on Chop
Herring Records in two differentEP compilations.

(01:31:18):
Releasing the 1992.
Not the whole thing, but 12tracks on two different EPs, six
and six.
We put it out on Chop HerringRecords because, again, as the
years went on and more than 20something, 28 years later went

(01:31:39):
by, the conversation was simplylike, oh, yeah, the masters got
burnt up in the studio.
They got lost in the studio.
But we've always retained copiesof what it is that we did.
So we were able to put those EPsout.
There was some pretty good songson the EP, on both of the EPs.

(01:31:59):
I think for the first time, wewere, I want to say, interested
in working with other groups.
Because for us, it's been a longroad.
It's been a long road of stayingrelevant without a video.
It's been staying relevantwithout feature appearances on

(01:32:20):
our songs.
We had to hold our own on ourown.
For the first time, we wereworking with other artists.
We had them on songs.
And we were given others'opportunity to go ahead and show
their skill set on wax.
And we were going to put it out.
I think that around the timethat the last album came out,

(01:32:42):
what was going to come out, wehad went to Big Beat at this
time.
And more than any other timebefore prior, we were...
kind of under lock and key withfolks like, okay, well, you go
record this song and then youbring it back down and we'll
listen to it and we'll let theA&R hear it.
And if the A&R likes it orwhatever, we'll put it out or

(01:33:02):
whatever.
And we were at that time facinga lot of adversity in regards to
the kind of songs, again, thatwe would make because we were
like, we're never going to stopmaking hard hip hop songs.
We were making this for ourfans.
We were doing this because thiswas in our heart.
We were sent to work with otherproducers that wanted us to go

(01:33:23):
ahead.
And they were big nameproducers, but they wanted us to
do songs that were more in thesignature of the hits they had
made.
Back then, each producer hadlike their own sound.
And it's like chasing a hit whenyou first do some drugs or
something like that.
You continue to buy drugsthroughout the rest of your life

(01:33:43):
because you're still chasing thefeeling of that first hit.
And that's what they were doingwith us.
us as a group they were tryingto recreate like another success
which was taking us away fromwho we were and i think around
like um 90 what was it like 9192 91 92 finally all of us just
kind of i think finally all ofus just kind of like looked at

(01:34:04):
each other and was like you knowwhat like this is just not it um
a had left the group um kurt wasdoing more of his own thing with
the group i was more focusing inon the music that I would want
to do and how I would want tosound on my own and stuff like
that.
But it was just, again,conforming to, to where music

(01:34:26):
was going and working with acertain producers.
We, we, we felt like wedelivered a lot of really,
really good records.
Cause that was like, you know,almost, you know, similar to big
tracks going in that style, butnothing was ever good enough for
like an A&R in the city.
As they would say, A&Rs havelike probably like, There's only
a few A&Rs out there thatcreated a lot, a lot, a lot of

(01:34:48):
hits.
A lot of them messed up a lot ofsituations.
But that's how it ended uphappening.
And we just one day looked ateach other and was like, you
know what?
We could remain friends, butmaking this music and running
back and forth to do this, that,and the third, I have different
opportunities.

(01:35:09):
I went on to work with...
a reggae artist at the time inNew York that was really, really
big called Yankee B.
And I ended up getting himsigned for a deal with G Street
V2 based on a single that I haddid with himself and K-Mani
Marley, a remix of Bob Marley'sWar.

(01:35:29):
He ended up getting an albumdeal on that label and stuff.
So we were all just going on ourown separate ways.
But I don't think that we didnot come out again because, you
know, we couldn't come out we wedidn't come out because of
choice because again someonechanging you up and

SPEAKER_02 (01:35:48):
so i want to add so the first thing i want to say is
so we had a certain feel withthe first album we would try to
change into something else onthe second album but when we
recorded big tracks and i canspeak for myself it was the
first time since we recordedStrong Island that I had that

(01:36:12):
feeling when I left the studio.
When we finished doing bigtracks, I had the same feeling
that I had when we heard StrongIsland after we did it.
And we had the same vibe.
We were back to our same vibe ofthe essence of who we were, but

(01:36:33):
the A&R vibe.
like you said, was trying tochange us and give us different
producers and all that.
But Big Tracks was that song forme that reinvigorated me with
the group.
Like, this is us again.
So that was that.
And like you said, there wasmultiple things.
Kurt started getting offers towork with other groups, to

(01:36:55):
produce other groups.
So he started doing outsideproduction.
B had some opportunities.
I eventually got into...
to writing for some magazines,some underground magazines.
And I started taking that aspectof things.
And we just went like differentways.
And I also want to say, so wedidn't release the full album on

(01:37:18):
Chop Heron.
Chop Heron, what they did isthey did this limited edition
vinyl.
Each of the two pieces of vinylonly had like maybe two songs
from the album.
And then we had like remixes orsomething of, previous release
stuff that we put on there inthe instrumental or something to
make up the sixth joint.
But only like, there's only likemaybe four, possibly five of the

(01:37:44):
songs from the album that cameout through that.
There's still a lot of materialthat was never heard.
B.
Love is like the JVC Forcehistorian.
He has every story.
taped from every studio session.
He has every tape from everyfreestyle practice.

(01:38:04):
He has every picture we've evertaken, every flyer we've ever
been on.
There was a flood in my mother'sbasement, so I lost a lot of
stuff.
Like, I moved around a lot, so Ikept stuff at my mom's house,
and then there was a flood inher basement, so I lost a lot of
stuff that you can't replace.
But B-Love, and I don't knowwhat Kurt still has, but B-Love

(01:38:25):
has everything, every do, done,and I call him a historian.
So he's like the historian forJBC.
So he actually has some of thatmaterial laying around his
house.
I don't.
And maybe the right situationwill come about that it'll come

(01:38:47):
out.
But we did the thing with ChopHeron.
It was like this limitededition.
They only released a coupleof...
It

SPEAKER_03 (01:38:55):
was two different albums.

SPEAKER_02 (01:39:00):
Right, but it was like...
But it was a

SPEAKER_03 (01:39:02):
limited edition.
It was six on each album.

SPEAKER_02 (01:39:05):
Six songs, yeah, but all six songs wasn't from the
album.
That's the point I was making.
There were previous releasesongs on there and an
instrumental or two, too.
But...
But it was a limited edition, soonly so many copies were pressed
of those.
And like the first few were likeon colored vinyl, like gold or
platinum or whatever.

(01:39:25):
And there's not a lot of those.
So, you know, we did that dealjust to do it.
And, you know, and they had therights for like a couple of
years, which is over now.
But yeah.
Who knows what can happen?
And I'm saying this because younever know who's listening to
stuff and who still has love forus.

(01:39:46):
You never know what can happenif the right situation comes
about.
And the same thing which youwere asking about performance
is, again, you never know whatcan happen if the right
situation and the people arereal serious.
Most, we haven't, to answer yourquestion about that, we've got a
lot of offers, but they weren'tserious offers.

SPEAKER_03 (01:40:04):
Yeah.
Or serious,

SPEAKER_02 (01:40:05):
serious, serious.
come through and show up.
And, you know, that's impossiblefor B to just fly up from, from,
from, from Georgia.
And we're not even getting, youknow, we're not getting paid or
we get paid chump change.
It's not even, that's not evencovering his flight going back
and, you know, and all that.
So, you know, and then, youknow, we, so we've had people

(01:40:25):
who have called us and talked tous, but we haven't had serious
offers.
We had serious offers.
You, you, you, you'd see somestuff.
Cause like I said, we are,

SPEAKER_03 (01:40:35):
we've

SPEAKER_02 (01:40:35):
had, we've had,

SPEAKER_03 (01:40:36):
And we've had offers, like you said.
It's just, you know, what comeswith it.
It's like, okay, come to Europeand we'll pay you this much.
Or, you know, hey, well, what'sincorporated in us coming to
Europe?
Like, how are we going to get toEurope?
Or, hey, if you can get toEurope, I'll pay you to go on to

(01:40:57):
this show.
This is how the hip hop...
industry was going at a certainpoint in time also.
Everybody was out to capitalizeor trick someone else.
So it would be like, you know,hey, if you guys would happen to
be in North Carolina orwhatever, I can have you perform
in here.
It's going to be a pretty

SPEAKER_02 (01:41:13):
big deal.
Yeah, there's a lot of that.
If we happen to be in time, letthem know.
It was too risky.
You're not talking aboutbringing us there.
You're not talking about puttingus up while we're there.
But if we're there, and we'regoing to be in town this
weekend, let us know.
That's why I said, for me, thoseare not serious offers.

(01:41:37):
We haven't had serious offers.
And that's why many peoplehaven't seen us.
And that's why, for our fans,like I said, when we did the
little live performance ofStrong Island, we recorded it
and shared it And when we do,and when we did a couple of
lives and it was like, you know,with the lives where we might do

(01:41:57):
some verses and then we talk andthen we interact with the people
and then they'll say certainthings and we'll be going back
and forth with them.
And then, you know, I mightstart off another song and B
comes in with me or might starta freestyle.
So it was just like, an intimatething, like nothing planned,
nothing structured.
It was just like a fun thing.
And we've done that for ourfans.

(01:42:18):
And that was just for the fansbecause the fans have been
keeping us going and the fanshave been keeping the name
alive.
And we like interacting with thefans.
So, you know, I interact a loton social media.

SPEAKER_03 (01:42:29):
I think as a business, I think as a business
person, I think that as theyears went on, we grew.
And I think that we realizedthat, you know what I'm saying?
A big part of like, you know,your strength as a businessman
is the ability to say no.
Yeah.
You can't say yes to everything,you know?

(01:42:49):
And again, you say yes toeverything, you know what I'm
saying?
You end up taking losses.
Like it makes no sense for me toleave Atlanta.
And again, I'm already payingfor the airline ticket going,
coming, renting the car when Iget there, spending money when I
get there.
I'm already starting off at anegative.
And I think what a lot of peopledon't realize through financial

(01:43:10):
literacy is that, again, it hasto make sense.
You can't just go to dosomething and by the time you
realize you got back, you cameback with no money and pretty
much everything you did, you notonly did it for free, but now
you owe for an airline ticket oryou owe this or you have to pay
this or you have to pay that.
It just has to make sense.
And business-wise, you just haveto sometimes just have the

(01:43:31):
ability, which a lot of peopledoes not have, to

SPEAKER_00 (01:43:33):
say no.
Yeah.
Well, I appreciate you guysbeing real about the business
aspect of this.
Because a lot of artists don'teven talk about that stuff.
But that is the reality.
But they don't know.
Yeah, they don't know.
But while I appreciate hearingit, I mean, like the fans you

(01:43:54):
were talking about, people outthere...
Love you guys.
Um, they want to hear from you.
And, uh, I hope that there'ssome kind of situation moving
forward where, um, it does makesense for you guys, um, to make
it happen.
But, but even if it doesn'thappen, um, you've already
produced a lot of great music.

(01:44:16):
You've made your mark.
You, you put strong Island onthe map and we really appreciate
everything that you've done.
Um, I mean, if you did nothingelse ever again, you guys have
contributed so much.
And

SPEAKER_02 (01:44:31):
even when I came out there, you had already invited
me to be on the panel.
And I already had a relationshipwith Johnny Juice.
So even though that wasn't afinancial situation, I was by
myself, it made sense.
And it was for the Long IslandMusic and Entertainment Hall of
Fame, which we hope to beinducted in one day.
So it made sense.

(01:44:53):
Some of these situations don'teven make sense.
Like, you know what I'm saying?
Like, there was a benefit.
And it was Long Island.
And this song was about LongIsland.
So Long Island, Keith Murray andhis boys from Central Islip came
to see me perform that.
Like, they were there.
Like, they was like, yo, I thinkthey missed me.
And they were mad they missedit.
But he brought a couple ofpeople from Central Islip to

(01:45:14):
come see that.
You know, he was like, yo, wecame.
You know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:45:19):
So I want to say this real quick, and I know
you're probably going to killme, but I'm not going to let it
all out or whatever.
There's been some talks with usover the last couple of months,
probably what, the last half ayear, in regards to doing some
things.
I will say that you will see usagain.

(01:45:40):
The announcement is not outquite yet because a lot is still
being finalized.
But you

SPEAKER_02 (01:45:45):
will see us again.
Let's put it this way.
Anything can happen.
Stay tuned.
Follow us on social media.
I just started a brand newYouTube channel where you can
follow all of us.
JVC Force 2025.
And they got all our clips.

(01:46:06):
Clips of us performing.
Clips of different things.
And we got a Facebook page, anInstagram page.
Follow because make sure youfollow that.
That's where you're going tofind out whatever is coming up
and things are coming up.
When we can talk about it,that's where we're going to talk
about it first.
And then we'll probably do alive.
Yeah.
So, so that's all, that's allthat can be said right now.

(01:46:28):
That's what he said.
I'm a killer.
That's all that can be saidright now.
Cause until certain things,that's as much as we can say,
but,

SPEAKER_03 (01:46:37):
But please do know that there are some very serious
promoters talking to us

SPEAKER_02 (01:46:44):
about

SPEAKER_03 (01:46:44):
doing some things after all these years, and it's
making some sense.
Yes, stay tuned.
It makes good sense how they'retalking.

SPEAKER_02 (01:46:51):
Stay tuned.
And that's all I'm going to say.
Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 (01:46:54):
Okay, we will stay tuned.
And I think everyone listeningwill too.
Guys, thank you so much, man.
What a pleasure.
It

SPEAKER_03 (01:47:02):
won't be long.

SPEAKER_00 (01:47:03):
Okay.
JBC Force, everyone.
Check out all their socialmedia.
Do you guys want to give yoursocial media and website and
everything beyond?

SPEAKER_02 (01:47:12):
The main thing, the website's not up anymore.
It's been years.
But the...
The YouTube is JVC Force 2025.
Instagram is just JVC Force.
Their Facebook page is just JVCForce.
My personal is, everything forme is Mr.

(01:47:33):
A.J.
Woodson, M-R-A-J Woodson, tostay up on the things I'm doing
with books and all that.
We'll talk about that anothertime.
But that's my personal.
And B got his personal too, ifyou want to share.

SPEAKER_03 (01:47:48):
Yeah.
So, you know what I'm saying?
You can pretty much reach me on.
Yeah.
Can you hear me?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can pretty much reach me onevery platform.
Be love of JVC force.
And, you know, I do, you know,for the purpose of all of this,
you know, I have I do havepersonal pages and stuff like
that.
But, you know, entertainmentwise, if you want to reach me,

(01:48:09):
you can reach me on JVC force.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48:11):
Okay, guys, this was fantastic.
And hopefully I'll get to seethe two of you one day at the
Hall of Fame.
But I wish you the best with allthe things that you're hinting
at.
And thank you for many years ofgreat music.

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