The Long Report: Community Voices: Navigating Change in with Bruce Borkovich and Carman Bean

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to another long report.

(00:01):
I'm your host, Chris Long.
And here on this episode of the long report, I sit down with two fantastic candidates up
for election here in Mecosta County.
Bruce Borkovich, running for Big Rapids Township Supervisor, and Carmen Bean for the County
Commissioner.
We cover everything from the crazy liberal cancel culture shutdown of the Big Rapids
buzz to the Goshen battery plant.
Stay tuned for their personal stories, leadership philosophies, and inspirations driving their

(00:23):
campaigns as well as hot button issues like the whole transparency problem at the county
level.
If you can't like and subscribe button, share, share, share the report.
Roll the intro.
I'm setting my own clock.
Communist Party of China.
Red flags are everywhere.
We will be held accountable.
We are not Chinese owned.
They are not going to stop.
Oh, this is not a dumb deal.
If the door is that way.

(00:45):
Thank the board for bringing us together.
And now the act you've all been waiting for.
Professional picketers.
And if you don't like it, there's the door.
Hello and welcome to another long report.
I'm your host, Chris Long.
And today we're back on the road.

(01:05):
We have some special guests on today.
It's been a little while.
We got Bruce Borkovich on running for supervisor of Big Rapids Township.
How about that?
Yeah.
And then we also have another candidate on.
We have Carmen Bean running for County Commissioner.
Well thank you for inviting me, Chris.
Yes.

(01:26):
So it's been a while since you've been on Bruce.
The Big Rapids buzz no longer exists.
Yeah, they we pretty much were told to buzz off.
I think that's the official technical term when you're off there.
You buzz off.
So here we are.
Yes.
And there's no restrictions on this.

(01:47):
So I'm happy with it.
There's no restrictions on the podcast.
I don't have to give equal time to anybody.
I found a little irony in how the Big Rapids buzz was treated as to me that's kind of like
boycotting, isn't it?
Yeah, it certainly is.
It's you know, all joking aside, it's the classic cancel culture.
Yes.

(02:08):
It's one of the most harmful tools and the thing that just turns my stomach is the how
powerful the cancel culture has been.
That's why so many people won't voice their opinions, voice American opinions, core their
core values, because they're worried in some way, it's going to affect their employment,
their promotional ability, their reputation, whatever.

(02:30):
Unfortunately, it creates a lot of people's to cower in the corner.
So does yes, rather than stand up.
It does.
Here's the thing.
I don't care.
I already planned that they were going to probably shut me down, which because they
would do what they did and attack the sponsors, which is why I created the long report at
the same time I did that as a backup plan.

(02:52):
I knew it would occur.
And well, we're here.
And I told, hey, I said, if you try to silence me, I'll only become louder.
I said that in the summer.
And what have I done every single time?
I've gotten louder and louder.
Chris, remember what happened to Obi Wan?
When Obi Wan Kenobi was killed, he only became more powerful.
Remember?
And they could not say that if it wasn't true.

(03:14):
Star Wars is all true because you can't say that stuff if it isn't.
And you know, Darth Vader struck him down and he told him, Darth, if you kill me, I'll
only become more powerful.
And that's what happened.
Yeah.
Hey, they can keep trying to silence me.
I don't know really how they're going to try to cancel me on this.
We're going to report all the videos and stuff.

(03:35):
Yeah.
That's a good point.
Anyway, so what have they done to you?
To me?
Yeah.
What do you mean they?
What have they attacked you?
So I don't follow.
I really don't follow anyone.
I follow my friends and, you know, and as you know, both of you know, in this whole

(03:59):
fight with Goshen and in my, you know, when Carmen made me a deputy supervisor and my
journey to maybe becoming supervisor, I spend my efforts supporting my friends and people
who believe in what I believe.
And so this is a long around the corner answer, but I'm not really sure.

(04:25):
And that's OK.
They're attacking you every other day.
That doesn't surprise me.
And that's what they do.
Yeah.
It doesn't surprise me.
But, you know, I fire away.
You know, you spend a career in law enforcement and then end your career as a police chief
at a university and as a conservative Christian at a I wasn't at Hillsdale and fire away if

(04:51):
they think they're even going to get through my scar tissue.
They're kidding themselves.
They're not they're not getting down to any flesh.
They're just tickling the scar tissue.
So what about you?
Are they attacking you?
I would imagine that there might be something said now and then out there that's not really
in my favor, much like Bruce.

(05:11):
You know, I basically follow my family and friends and I don't I don't look at the other
sites.
I don't go to the other pages every now and then.
Someone will tell me that there are things being said.
I usually make a cross with my fingers and say, get away from me.
I you know, I've got thick skin.

(05:33):
It's not much going to make me angry.
You know, anger is not healthy.
Yeah.
And I don't get angry.
I respect other people have different worldviews than me.
And that's fine.
That's fine with me.
I feel I have a value set and that value sets not changing.
Yeah.
So, you know, I stick by that and I try to treat people, you know, as you know, as kindly

(05:55):
as I can or respectful as I can.
And it's very easy for me to write people off who are who don't practice that respect
for others and what they have to say they have to say.
And it really doesn't mean anything to me.
Yeah, I had a good friend and colleague because I still do it.

(06:15):
But I conducted I don't know how many interviews from officers on up to police chiefs.
I was hired by a company to sit on HR company to sit on boards.
So I became very comfortable with doing hiring interviews and a buddy of mine came up with
one of the best questions.
It's so simple.

(06:35):
You mentioned core values and and he said, try asking applicant, what are your core values?
And I when I first heard that, I was like, that is so simple and so elementary.
That can't be impactful.
It's crazy.
Educated, experienced people and you ask them what their core values are and they can't
tell you or they'll come up with one.

(06:58):
And wow, what are your core values?
My core values are my family, my faith, my patriotism, belief in our Constitution, belief
in the American system of rules, belief in our republic, honesty, compassion, tolerance.

(07:20):
And when I say tolerance, make sure people understand that I'm not I'm not left tolerant.
I'm just I'm tolerant of people differences.
So I could spend probably another five minutes firing off core values.
But I was shocked at what a difficult question that is in some interview forums.

(07:42):
It's unbelievable.
Carmen, what are your your core values?
Bruce and I could be like Danny DeVito and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
We could be twins like they were in the movie.
I truly value honesty, faith, work ethic and kindness.
Yeah, definitely.
I do that.

(08:03):
Yeah.
And love of country.
None of you guys have attacked anyone on the other side.
No, no, you're not.
I won't do it.
My father would say, Chris, and you've heard me give all these, you know, I know to Chris,
I'm that old guy that's always speaking in these euphemisms and in these things.
But my father had so many wise gems that he gave me, you know, we call in our family grandpa's

(08:25):
rule.
And that's what we've taught in our children.
Grandpa's rule was if you don't have anything good about saying to say about anyone, don't
say anything.
But my dad had another gem.
And when someone said something ridiculous, he would look at them and say, I'm not going
to dignify that with an answer.
And that is so powerful because it's me responding to your attack, your accusation, whatever

(08:50):
is not worth even it will dignify it.
It will give it credibility if I even answer.
Yeah.
So yeah, they're constantly saying that that what I do, you're telling me what to do, which
makes zero sense.
You haven't told me anything to do.
It's in fact, it's typically afterward is like, yeah, you shouldn't have done that.

(09:11):
We have those conversations, don't we, Chris?
And I admire Chris.
And if the other people don't like me because they say I admire Chris, one of the things
I admire so much about you in the same reason I admire Ted Nugent is because no one is going
to silence you.
And that is so core American.

(09:32):
It is it is so core American.
Now, Ted Nugent, you can't cancel culture him.
He has all the money he needs.
And so so the the other side doesn't try to hit him with cancel culture because, you know,
he doesn't have anything they need or they can impact.
And one of the things I respect about you is I'm not doing any of this for money.

(09:55):
I just don't care.
But it's that's Americana.
You know, it's I guess when I was at Ferris and we'd have demonstrations or I'd speak
to groups or whatever and with some concerns, talk to officers coming in to help.
I said, listen, there's a reason it's the First Dominion.
I think it's pretty important.
Yeah, I think our founding fathers thought, wow, this one's this is the one we better

(10:17):
get out first.
Yes.
And so that's part of the reason is great American.
People can you know, they have the right to their opinion.
They have the right to say what they want to say, you know, barring some of the yes.
You can't threaten you know, fire in a theater.
All those good things and you just, you know, you know, you don't let it get to you.

(10:40):
You know, anger is like feeding yourself poison and hoping someone else can.
And I do know there's been accusations that I tell Chris what to say that Chris is a puppet
for me.
And it's just kind of funny because we often have very pointed conversations.
After I find out he says something, I'll reach out and say that was perfect except for that

(11:01):
last part.
Or why did you say that?
And I respect your right to say that.
Yes, you can.
That's bullshit because Chris, nobody could tell Chris any.
No.
And so for anyone listening to this, if you do think that Chris is manipulated by any of
us or he's he's working behind the scenes for us, I'm telling you, this is just wrong.

(11:27):
And you know, so I don't think we could pay him enough to.
Say what we want him to say.
No, no.
Karl Marx made it so clear in the Communist Manifesto, he didn't hide it.
One of the tenets, one of the foundations of socialism is to remove religion from the

(11:50):
society to destroy God.
Why?
You know, then you have to ask why?
Because in socialism, the government become needs to become God.
Yeah.
And then you become dependent on them.
They are they are your God.
Yeah.
And I don't never happen in the Borkovich House, I'll tell you that.
But I saw that today.

(12:10):
It was just it was chilling.
Well, there was a speech back in the 50s or 60s that said that like the communists can
take over without firing a shot.
I believe that's a I believe I don't know if it's the current top dog in China said
that.
I think, you know, they have a hundred year plan that they're that they have been working

(12:31):
on, you know, in my opposition to the battery plant.
Do I think China is going to come in, build a plant and attack us from here?
Like walk out and with guns and attack us?
That would be really, really dumb.
Like Ted Nugent said, does the left understand because they were talking about after Antifa
and George Floyd thing, we're coming to the country next.

(12:54):
Yeah.
And Ted Nugent said, do they realize that in the country, people sit in a tree stand
for eight hours in camouflage waiting to kill something?
With a bow and a handgun, a rifle and a shotgun.
Exactly.
So yeah, you know, Mao Zedong did the, you know, the hundred year plan, you know, just

(13:16):
29 years after Stalin said that he implemented it.
And here we are on their way and we're assisting them.
We're financing it.
And Carmen is someone I admire so much.
I've learned so much from him about, I'm going to say this, Carmen, forgive me.
I've learned so much about politics.
Now quick, let me define that.

(13:36):
I've learned what a good elected official is from Carmen Bean.
And I'm an observer of people.
I always have been.
And I've watched since he became in the recall, our township supervisor, and everything he
does is about transparency and representing his public.
It's almost like a fairy tale type.

(13:57):
It's what I must say the P word again.
No fairy tale.
Oh, fairy tale.
And but it is, I mean, I know this is goofy and this makes Carmen a little uncomfortable,
but he is what everything is supposed to be in politics.
But real quick, because you both talked to her.

(14:18):
We had Kala from Voice of America.
She is a Chinese national.
I believe she's been here for 12 years.
And she says she's going to get her citizenship now.
She is so bright.
Oh, goodness.
It's scary.
Articulate, bright, bright, well-informed.
Oh, yeah.
And she was warning us against what's going on.

(14:40):
Oh, she has.
Yeah.
And she's so charming.
I mean, she is so neat.
So she came out to interview Carmen and I. Carmen's an outdoorsman, a hunter like me.
And as we look to the east across my big food plot for the deer and I said, hey, Carmen,
see that?
I got a woodchuck out there, 350 yards the other day.

(15:01):
And I shot him and they both looked at me and she had her and her camera.
I don't know.
I think it was her.
She said, you have a gun?
Yes.
And I'm like, I'm like, well, I'll mention that.
Yeah, I was like Beavis or Butt-Head, whichever one.
Guns.
Do you have a gun?

(15:22):
And I said, yeah.
You want to see it?
Yeah.
And I brought out it's a 22-250 environment rifle.
I made sure it was unloaded.
I gave them a real quick little safety primer.
I said, you want to hold it?
Oh, my gosh.
Yes.
And they held it and it was just, it was really neat to watch.

(15:43):
And then one of them, I think she said, you have a handgun?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I got handguns.
So I brought out a 22, a little 22 and made sure it was unloaded, showed it to them and
everything.
And then you want to shoot it?
And they just like, they just let up.

(16:05):
Oh, my gosh.
Yes.
So I let him shoot a little box in the backyard and he was a little more reserved than she
was.
And then she shot, she hit the box with both shot and you could almost hear her face crack
from her smile.
It was just getting the corner of her mouth was touching her ears.
That smile was so big.

(16:26):
And I said, Kala, do you know the feeling you have right now?
She says, yeah.
I said, do you know what that feeling is?
No, that's freedom.
Right now, you know what freedom feels like.
You can go out, own property, go out off your deck and pull a gun out and shoot it as much
as you want.

(16:46):
No one can tell you you can't.
And you could just see the wheels, you know, turning.
And then they said, can we see your armory?
Can we see your armory?
She asked you, is what we're doing legal?
Yes.
Yes.
They've never touched a gun before, never fired a gun.
And I asked, can you own a farm property in China?

(17:09):
And no, he finally explained for some people, they can own a house, but it's kind of like
a 70 year lease.
You own it, but after 70 years, it turns back over to the government.
Yeah.
And the land's all the government.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
It was that was a fun afternoon.
That was cool.
It really was.
All right.

(17:30):
Your turn, Carmen.
I talked too much.
Oh.
I think this is one of the big things that you want to change at the county level.
I know one thing I like to see is the meetings instead of them being during the day where
nobody can go because they're working.
I like to see those county meetings be in the evening.
Yeah, definitely.
I think that that's something that we should have, if elected, that I'll push for it.

(17:53):
It's not right.
It's not proper.
It's not representing the people if you don't allow them to participate.
Yeah.
And the governance, if you will.
I hate to use that term governance.
But it's putting up a barrier.
Yeah.
It's putting up a barrier.
It truly is.
And it almost appears to me like it's by design.
Yeah.

(18:14):
It's probably Bullock's design.
I'm also very concerned about the responsible use of tax funds.
Oh, yeah.
I believe that the county's sitting on, you know, you hear so much, some say eight, some
say 16.
Now, we're talking about millions.
I took a look at their financial reports from the last meeting or the last one that was

(18:38):
published.
And it appears that they have over 41 million invested.
Now, I'm going to do...
Invested where?
Well, amongst various financial institutions.
Now, one of those may be an operating fund or something, but I have to get into it further.
But I believe that we're building...
What are they just sitting on the money for?

(18:59):
Well, that's my point.
You know, we're either overtaxed as citizens or under serviced.
We have roads that need to be fixed.
We have roads.
And Carmen, repeat that, will you?
Because it's really, it's simple, but it's brilliant.
Repeat what you just said.
It's one of two things.
It's only one of two things.
The citizens of Mecosta County are either overtaxed or they're under serviced.

(19:19):
It's one of the two.
I would say we're under serviced.
I want to know, it doesn't make any sense because you're not supposed to make a profit at the
end of the year.
You're supposed to be at the city level and not like, you have all this stuff extra.
And they refuse.
There's one county commissioner that absolutely refuses and says that fixing the roads is
not our responsibility.

(19:39):
It's the state responsibility.
I'm sorry, if you have $44 million just sitting there doing nothing.
Okay, now, like I want you to know, I need to verify what accounts are what accounts.
But the total deposits as on the last statement were $41 million.
Wow.
Okay, now, it's definitely not all going to the sheriff's department.
It's definitely not going.

(20:02):
We need to support and you know what I've said this and it's on my palm card I'll be
sending out.
We need to adequately fund law enforcement, emergency services, roads, and we need to
start funding fire departments.
The county does not fund fire response.
Amen.

(20:22):
Chris, the mission statement of and I wonder if all the commissioners know this.
They have a mission statement in the mission statement is to protect the health, safety
and welfare of the citizens of Macosta County.
That is their mission statement.
In 2022, they violated that.
Well, unfortunately, mission statements and master plans, at least in this county, maybe

(20:43):
it's statewide.
It's lip service.
It's supposed to be.
Oh, I hate to do this.
It's supposed to be our little constitution.
It's supposed to be the rules that govern us so that individuals don't deviate from
those things.
And that master plan and that mission statement should enter into just about at least you

(21:04):
should be thinking about it in every conversation you have.
And Carmen brings up such great points.
Okay, so there's your mission statement health, safety and welfare, that if we've got money
we're taking from people that is not being spent, maybe we need to look at supporting
law enforcement and fire emergency.
We've got a sheriff in this town.

(21:26):
County does a great job.
Brian Miller, Brian Miller's vote for Brian Miller.
Well, he's heart is as big as is, is, is the moon.
He's getting some mud slung on him.
And I've known Brian for years.
He is very honest, high integrity, very honest, very transparent.
And he's done a great job representing that are slinging mud at him.

(21:48):
Yeah, I, I don't know, you know, I know what's being said.
I don't you may know.
I don't know really know where it's coming from.
But there I got a gratuitous plugin for Brian, but Carmen's 100% right.
Let's look at priorities.
Yeah, you know, as an example, I, I just cannot comprehend that the canine unit had to have

(22:11):
a fundraiser.
I can't comprehend that they had to have a call for outing to fund the canine unit.
That's insane.
And to me that yeah, that is insane.
It's it's a bake sale policing.
Yes.
That's what I've coined bake sale police.
I want to know where all that money is going.
If they are sitting on that much, where's it going?
What little pet projects are being done that behind the scenes?

(22:34):
I don't know.
I mean, I can't answer that.
Yeah, I don't know.
But if elected, I will find out.
Yeah.
Are you going to push for ethics policy that everybody?
I think there should be one out there.
If not, we should draft one.
Yeah, because there needs to be one.
We need to hold the politicians accountable to the people.

(22:56):
Yes.
And that's not happening.
And it shouldn't take a recall to do that.
Correct.
It shouldn't.
I mean, I'm so proud of my patriot brothers and sisters, two of whom are at this table
with me on the recall.
But that's extreme.
And we shouldn't have to do that.
If good people are doing their job, you should never have to recall.

(23:16):
Correct.
It shouldn't.
But you know what?
It took Goshen to wake everybody up.
It did.
It's a reality.
It's an interesting dynamic.
I thank Goshen for coming here to wake people up.
It's an interesting dynamic.
Yeah, I think we have an entire segment of the population, and I believe it's the majority,
that is simply saying enough is enough.
Yes.

(23:37):
The time is now and the place is here in the Costa County.
We're going to take a stand.
We're putting a stake in the ground.
And we're saying stop enough.
Yes.
Now, hopefully we're successful.
We've been successful thus far.
And I'm not going to give up.
This battle's not over.
No, you're not.
We're not going to back down.
No, no.

(23:58):
You're not going to silence us.
No.
At least you're not going to silence me.
No.
You know, the whole push now against the commissioners, it's not because they're bad people or they've
done no evil things.
But there was a couple of them that lied.
They did a terrible thing.
And the terrible thing is they made decisions using their political amnesia.

(24:21):
They made decisions for us without asking us.
They made uninformed decisions.
Absolutely.
And they made statements at the State Appropriations Committee.
Well, now remember, Gerald Dean did talk to several people.
Gerald Dean?
0.0002.
Is it Geraldine?
Geraldine.
Geraldine.
Hey, don't, no.
Don't you play this game with me because you messed that up at a meeting.

(24:42):
You called.
That was so funny.
Did you call Commissioner Howard that?
Yeah, I called Linda Howard Geraldine by accident, honestly.
Oh, and it was not on purpose.
And now you just called her Geraldine.
Geraldine?
Geraldine.
Geraldine.
And you know, I've heard.
Does she say she's Canadian?
I think she is. I've heard some things about her over the years.

(25:03):
I think she's done some really good things.
I really do.
And it's all being undone, possibly by the seduction by Goshen.
And I saw her testifying.
And I'm not joking when I said she said she talked to several people.
How many is several?
Now, I'm not a Ph.D. I do have a master's degree.

(25:26):
Big deal.
I did have to take, you know, research and probability statistics.
And I'm far from a research expert, but several is pretty.
That's a pretty small N. They call that an N, a sampling number.
That's pretty small.
I talked to several people.
We had, of course, another elected official who quoted either 96 or 97 percent of the

(25:50):
Green Township constituents were for it.
Good old Shappey.
Now, if you talk to six people and five of them, you know, say, yeah, I'm for it.
Well, maybe that's where you get your statistics.
Well, should we just start using several for everything?
How many?
How do you know that?
Well, because I talked to several people.
I'm just going to start saying that.

(26:10):
So can we say that they're providing them with several billion rather than one billion?
Yeah, if we're just.
Yes.
Why not?
That's with a B billion.
Several billion.
Yeah.
I think we should start doing that.
Since it's OK.
Well, they're also proposing building several plants.

(26:33):
I've heard they're going to build one across my pond in the food plot and there's nothing
I can do about it.
They're going to like airdrop a foundation in and then they're going to have a big Chinese
helicopters with the fact several helicopters, several, and they're going to drop it.
What?
There's several of them coming.

(26:55):
I'm having fun.
This is why you miss me being on the radio with you.
Yes, I needed you on.
Maybe I overstated it and I'm embellishing it.
Maybe it's just a few billion.
Rather than several?
Yeah, or a couple billion.
A couple.
Yeah, I can't comprehend that we've allowed this to go as far as it's gone.

(27:19):
I can't comprehend that the county commissioners passed the resolution in support.
You can't even find any discussion in the minutes of that meeting.
They just, you know, it was like.
Which, excuse me, it's easy then to infer that there were discussions held elsewhere.

(27:39):
Pretty hard to believe that you're going to make such an important decision just out of
your back pocket at a meeting.
Hey, by the way, I forgot to tell you guys, a big Chinese battery plant's coming in.
What do you think?
Thumbs up?
And it's kind of hard to believe it.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
How about you?
Thumbs up?

(28:00):
Yeah, it's done.
It would lead one to believe that there were probably lots of communications.
Oh yeah, definitely.
Were they done in secret?
I mean, that's how you do it to get all your votes.
Were they done in violation of the OMA?
Yeah.
And who knows?
I don't know that factually, but I spent quite a few years predicting what people are going

(28:23):
to do or what they have done in my career.
I mean, they're public meetings for a reason.
The discussion needs to take place in front of the public.
You know, at the township level, we have two public comment sections, sessions rather,
one prior to anything going on and one after the fact.

(28:43):
I actually have a tendency to allow it to go on as well as when we're discussing things.
Yeah.
Because you want to get the input.
You don't want to shut them down.
I believe in Robert's Rules of Order, but I also believe that the citizens have a voice.
And that's a great perspective because there's nothing in the Open Meetings Act that says

(29:05):
you can't do that.
No, there isn't.
Correct.
The Open Meetings Act allows you to restrict the way people talk and for how long, but
there's nothing that says every time you guys propose something to say, I want to take a
minute.
Any opinions from anyone in the audience?
Well, when the community treats you correctly and you are transparent and everything, when

(29:26):
you do things properly, you should be able to have open dialogue with your constituents.
But when you do something like Chapman did in order to shut down dissent and shut down
the opposition, no talking.
Nope.
There's the door.
Yeah.
I believe so much in it.
Sheriff, remove him.
I believe so much in it.
And the sheriff, who, that was the Brian that...
It was Gary Greene, the under sheriff, and I think Brian was there.

(29:50):
And I had talked with both of them, I kind of mentored those guys and I hired Gary.
And we had talked before those meetings quite a bit about the First Amendment and the police
presence and about always erring in the side of caution and that it's a balancing act because

(30:14):
you want to keep those meetings safe and orderly.
At the same time, you're not the Gestapo.
And several times a certain particular...
Champion.
A particular township...
I don't care.
This ain't the radio.
Supervisor would say when someone was...
And people are passionate, they're angry, they're emotional.

(30:36):
And when they would get loud, I was there several times where, Sheriff, remove him.
Like Moses, like Red Sea part in front of me.
And Brian and Gary are both sitting there, had their arms crossed standing there and
they never even uncrossed it.
And they just stared at him.
And what was going on in their head was, first of all, don't tell me how to enforce the law.

(31:02):
You're talking about the First Amendment.
But he's got 30 years of experience, so he can do that.
That's true.
I'm not even gonna comment.
No, not gonna comment.
But I did find that I was proud of our Sheriff and our undersheriff because they didn't step
in and start muscling people.
And you've got to understand this is an emotional passionate issue and people are gonna show

(31:24):
emotion.
And sometimes that's healthy.
Yes.
You know, yeah, it looks like they're out of order, but you've got that's if people
are getting that emotional, there's a reason doing something wrong.
Yeah, I heard that.
Where did I hear that?
I think you've got a recording, don't you?
Some people just can't perceive things as well as others.

(31:49):
There's a clip here that Chris is searching for.
Maybe you're doing something wrong.
That was when the one guy said to Chapman, if you have to wear a...
And he was a Marine.
If you have to carry a gun to protect yourself against your constituents, maybe you're doing
something wrong.
Maybe you're doing something wrong.

(32:09):
He's a veteran.
I think he might have been a combat veteran.
I think he was a Marine.
He's a good man.
He's a good family man.
He lives right near the property, too.
Yes, he does.
Yeah, that was, in my opinion, more for show than protection.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The vest and the gun?
Yeah.
I mean, come on.
Yeah.
Has anybody been out attacking people for so many years?

(32:30):
Wait, the Green Township got attacked.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.
I stopped by and saw the door.
Yesterday, I saw Jason's truck there.
And Jason, another one of...
I knew Jason before this.
It's not like I met him in this battle because my wife used to work at their clinic, but
what a guy.
I have so much admiration for him.

(32:52):
He has sacrificed so much financially, time, effort, emotion, career for his community.
But he is such a good man.
He and his wife are just...
Beautiful people.
The world's a mess, but when you see those two and how they're raising those children
and what they stand for, it kind of...
I feel like...
Gives you hope.

(33:12):
Music playing in the background, some patriotic music, some hope.
Yeah.
That young man is...
He's a hardworking young man.
He's intelligent.
He's very smart.
Yes.
Very strategic.
Yep.
He's a smart guy.
They underestimate him.
They do.
They all the time.
Anyway, I don't know.

(33:35):
Since you've been gone on the Big Rapids Buzz and everything, I don't know if you've been
following what happened in the last two shows.
So the last two shows of the Big Rapids Buzz, I had Laurie Brock on and Tanya and Angela.
I listened to that one.
Yep.
And they made up lies, complete lies.
The other side did.

(33:56):
They all went and tried to contact our sponsors to try to take down the show.
They pressured the sponsors, throwing their weight around and trying to say that they're
going to boycott their business, blah, blah, blah, if they don't stop sponsoring.
And so I said, okay, well, you know what?
I'm not going to affect the radio station's revenue.
So I'm going to take the show down.
And that's what I did.

(34:16):
But they just made these complete lies about what we said.
Never once did I say anything.
Did I say anything about anybody's weight?
Did Tanya?
No.
I listened to it.
I listened to the whole thing and it was strictly referencing McDonald's Happy Meals and how
many Happy Meals would it take for a certain person to become happy.

(34:39):
Yeah.
I was clearly, to me, there was not one part of me.
She used to work at McDonald's.
Not one part of me was thinking, oh, he's insinuating that someone is not in good shape
or overweight.
Not one part of that.
It was actually humorous.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's unfortunate that folks are so thin skinned and read into things messages that are not

(35:07):
there.
Yeah.
They were very strategic about it because let's be honest, when I was doing the radio
show I was not doing this.
I was not focusing on the podcast.
I was focusing strictly on trying to get one episode recorded each week and doing that.
So really the situation was only being broadcasted in this area and only being spread in this

(35:29):
area online.
And them shutting that down gave me more time, no time restrictions of trying to get that
pressure of getting an episode out a week and scheduling and doing all that.
They didn't think very hard about what they would open them.
What can of worms would they open if they did that?

(35:50):
So now I don't have to worry about a timing schedule.
I don't have to worry about sponsors.
I don't have to worry about any of that.
They just unleashed me.
Now I can focus on doing whatever and getting it out to everyone.
Yeah.
You know, there are folks out there that nitrous oxide wouldn't make smile.

(36:11):
It's true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can't comprehend going through life that angry.
Yes.
I just can't comprehend.
And that on edge.
Yes.
Yeah.
You know, I know the only reason I know is because people have shown me what some other
people have said about me and this whole thing.
And okay, you know, say what you want.

(36:33):
You know, it's America, say what you want.
You haven't damaged me.
Yeah.
You haven't hurt me.
I'm not going to stand up and put my gloves up and fight you or fight back.
They weren't going to vote for you anyway.
So it doesn't even matter.
Exactly.
You lost 10 votes.
Yeah.
The comments say more about the person delivering them than they do about the person they're

(36:56):
talking about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, it's all you have to do is listen to folks and you find out what kind of folks
they are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So why are you running for supervisor?
You know, I realized through, you know, this fight, you know, started with Pat Curry, who

(37:20):
loaded me up one day with another committee member.
Hey, let's go for a ride and showed me where they were proposing this.
And I realized, you know, I pulled my head out of the sand or maybe out of somewhere
else and realized this was in two miles of our farm.
Yeah, you should like this.
Yeah.
Something like that.

(37:41):
That would be a good sound effect for someone to pull their.
Yeah.
How about this one, Chris?
You can copy it.
Okay.
I'll use that next time.
And it really, it really hit me.
And then as I dove into it, I realized our core principles of representative government

(38:03):
were perverted in this county, a couple of townships.
And thank God for the board.
And I'm so proud of our board and Big Rapids Township for doing what they did.
But I realized that, you know, we were the system was corrupted.

(38:25):
It was perverted because we have long term professional politicians, people, elected
representatives who have decided, okay, I'm in, I got this.
I know what I'm doing.
Now, don't you worry, Mr. Bean, you just be a good boy.
You sit home.
I know what's good for you.
And that is that is so repugnant to me.

(38:48):
And then I realized, is it their fault or is it my fault?
Because I always look within is it, is it their fault?
Yeah, to a certain extent, they didn't do what they're supposed to.
Who let them do that?
People like me who are sound asleep, exactly, who are not willing to get involved.
Yeah.
Yeah, I vote.
Well, if you think showing up to vote makes you a great citizen, you're kidding yourself.

(39:11):
Maybe if that's all you do, maybe you should stay home anyhow.
Showing up to vote doesn't make you a great citizen.
And so I told people, do I want to be Big Rapids Township Supervisor?
Heck no.
I feel a calling to be Big Rapids Township Supervisor.
It's not like I'm not doing it for money, not doing it for power, not doing it for power
ego.

(39:32):
But I do realize I can preserve something that's very precious to many people.
And that is their voice, their right to be represented.
Yeah.
And and I'm no genius.
I'm definitely, you know, I always say I have kind of a room temperature IQ.
But what I can do if I become supervisor is listen to people figure out, you know, what

(39:55):
they want.
I coined a little cheesy little saying is, you know, in Big Rapids Township, let's protect
what we have and determine what we need.
Yeah.
But very those are both important.
Got to protect the nature of what we have here in our lifestyle, what's important to
us and then together determine what we need.

(40:17):
From what I've seen, the board isn't anti growth, anti employment, just the opposite.
But according to the correct growth and according to the master plan, which I've read numerous
times, you know, there are priorities that people have established here in this particular
plant doesn't align with with that master plan.

(40:38):
So that's why I'm running.
It's my turn in the barrel and and I can bring that.
And I've learned so much from this guy.
We know somebody has to do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because those that are currently in office are not doing it.
Correct.
They've lost sight of what they were originally elected for because everyone's been asleep.

(40:59):
Everybody's woken up and started going to meetings.
I've seen more people at whether it's the city meetings, the county meetings, all that
people are going.
People are waking up.
And I think the one thing out of all of this, aside from us all uniting, is people are getting
involved.
That's what needs to happen.
And they're getting involved where it matters most local.

(41:22):
Yep.
Because across the country, they're doing.
I mean, this is pretty cynical.
But at the federal level, it's really hard to feel like you can make an impact.
You can make an impact in your own county and your own township in your own city.
You can really make a difference and make an impact.
And it's very hard to imagine that impact at the federal level.

(41:43):
Yeah.
Why are you running, Kermin?
Why am I running?
Yeah.
Why do you want to be a county commissioner?
I think there's a need for change.
I think that the level of representation of the people has eroded to a point where it's
sad to watch it.
Yeah.
I think that we need to build a retaining wall somewhat.
A fortress.

(42:03):
Oh, yeah.
A fortress.
Exactly.
I think that folks aren't being represented.
I think that the local government, the state government and the federal government, basically
are there imposing their will upon the people.
And we need to do something different.
We're taxed.
I have no problem with paying my taxes, none whatsoever.

(42:25):
But I don't want to pay one penny more than I have to.
And I think that the money needs to be used in a responsible manner.
I think it needs to be used in a constructive manner.
I think that, as you said earlier, the meetings need to be held where the citizens can attend
them.
I mean, they have, what, like nine in the morning and three in the afternoon?

(42:46):
Most people who work a day shift somewhere have no opportunity to attend one of those
meetings.
Correct.
And that's not right.
It's simply not right.
We need to listen.
We need to work together.
We need to discuss these issues and we need to research them.
There's been no research regarding this major issue.

(43:08):
Yeah.
Oh, no, actually, what's your face?
Linda Howard said she got plenty of research done.
Remember at that GOP meeting?
I do, because I remember pinning her down on my question.
Luckily, Chris Zimmerman, another good patriot who is running for county commissioner.
I've known her.
Well, I've known Chris for, I'll bet you, at least 30 years.

(43:32):
He's a very, very smart guy.
He's a very accomplished author.
He's written like five or six books.
Wow.
He's a business owner.
He's a community member.
And a son-in-law of Pete Kent.
Son-in-law of Pete Kent.
Yeah.
And Chris was a sergeant at arms.
You guys were at that meeting, I think, because I asked the first question and it was very
pointed to Linda Howard regarding our top security experts and their opinions on if

(43:58):
this plan is built, what it'll be used for.
And she danced around and bird walked off in another direction.
And then I thought, well, okay, I'm not going to answer it.
And now Chris Zimmerman says, okay, now you need to answer the question.
You haven't answered it yet.
And she looked at him and looked at me.
And the question was, now I really tried to give her an out.

(44:22):
I really did.
Don't back people in corners.
When I was a little kid.
I do that.
You have to give them a little little needle size hole to retreat from.
When I was a little kid, I loved critters and stuff.
One day I was lifting up a board and there was a mouse there.
For whatever reason, our parents didn't let us have pets.
I had best parents in the world, but we never had a pet.

(44:42):
We always wanted a pet.
There's a little mouse there.
And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, this could be my pet.
I thought it was so cool.
And I reached down and that mouse bit me and took a slice with those incisors.
It bled for felt like days because it just moved.
And it taught me a valuable lessons, a lesson that you corner anything and it'll bite back.

(45:03):
Give living things an out if you can.
So I gave her an out.
I said, you know, now I know initially this looked like a good project.
Now that our top security experts have analyzed this and we know they're serious and
sincere threats and they're very likely to attack our cybersecurity.
Have you changed your opinion?
I really gave her a chance to say, you know, I've been rethinking it or I need to rethink

(45:28):
of it or that is.
And she kind of got in indignant and kind of looked at Chris and me.
Nope.
And I thought, OK, now I know why Orman is organizing this push to clean house at the
county level.
Yeah.
And thank goodness for Orman.
Yes.
These boys, he's I've learned a ton from him.

(45:50):
What a good man.
Man, he has a lot of energy.
I guess apparently he's the puppet master.
Oh, really?
Is he the one telling you what to say and what to do?
No!
Have you ever done?
Nobody tells me shit.
Have you ever done one thing I've told you to do?
No, actually no.
That's true.
No, I know what you mean.
When I ask him to turn left, he won't.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, right.
I mean, yeah, I never asked you to turn left.

(46:10):
Yeah, no, I never asked you to turn left.
I mean, I never asked you to turn left.
I mean, I never asked you to turn left.
I never asked you to turn left.
I don't think it's possible for him to turn left.
That's why he just goes in circles.
He could get to where he's going, but he refuses to ever turn left.
You know, your mom's story, we really are twins.
I was just a little guy, five, six years old, and a fox squirrel got hit by a car and his

(46:34):
back legs were broken.
Probably his back as well.
Well, I went out to try to rescue it.
You're going to change the world.
That thing did me, I don't know how many times.
You corner any living.
And I really practice.
Now I got one, there's two.
So I think it was like three, four years ago.
It was during COVID in the winter.

(46:55):
And my Sage was down in the basement and she wouldn't come upstairs.
And she was down by the old coal furnace, the chimney over there, the unused one, and
she wouldn't leave it all day.
And I'm like, what's going on?
And so I went down there and opened up the latch and there was a squirrel in there and
I'm like, oh, it got, it fell down and it can't get back up.

(47:16):
And Sage is like going crazy.
So I went and grabbed some oven mitts.
Good idea.
And I put on a leather coat and some, a couple pairs of jeans just to get some padding on.
So I went down there, I had two oven mitts on and I went down there, opened up the hatch

(47:37):
slowly and grabbed its tail.
Oh, it immediately flung around, it went crazy.
And then I grabbed it, it's the body and it started biting it.
I felt it through the oven mitts.
It didn't pinch the skin.
When you break wallets with your teeth.

(48:00):
It got me and I trying to get it upstairs and let it out, but I saved it.
It didn't bust any skin, but it definitely was mad at me.
I was trying to save the damn thing.
I was seldom in a fight in my whole career, just a handful.
And part of it was because I was a big guy, I was in shape, but part of it was, I always

(48:22):
remembered that you corner any living thing.
I always remembered that mouse bite and they can bite back and hurt you.
So I was always cautious and smart and tactical and all sorts of things.
So Carmen, we're going to do a quick rounds of questions.
What sets you apart from your competition for your position you're running for?

(48:47):
The incumbent.
What sets you apart?
I believe what sets me apart is I have, initially I have no political aspirations.
I'm not a lifelong politician by any means.
I believe that we should think about even consider term limits for commissioners.
I believe that this 22 years in service, I think there's a complacency that sets in and

(49:11):
I'm not very tolerant of complacency.
You're there to do a job, do the job.
I think that, you know, I've been in the area of 50 years, Bill is a long time resident,
but I think that we have different value sets.
Well Bill's probably done a lot of real good things for the community, but you know, recently,

(49:33):
you know, we don't get to go on what we did 20 years ago.
Yes, exactly.
We don't get to do that.
Bingo.
You know, I want to affect change or at least discussion of change.
I want to take a look at do risk analysis for the county.
And I don't think that that occurs currently.

(49:54):
Correct.
There's, you know, there's so much to it.
You know, the various committees, I think we need changes on the committees as well.
I mean, it's just status quo and it's been that way forever.
We have the same people in the community serving on multiple committees.
Yeah, same people just pushed around.
Yeah, they're just recycled to a various committee.

(50:16):
And I, you know, I don't think that's the way to do it.
I think you need to broaden your horizons a bit, get more input from more people.
Having viewpoints provoke a lot of thought, a lot of discussion.
I don't want to call it innovation, but it makes you look at things in a different manner.
It can make you reconsider your opinion, which we all need to do.

(50:42):
We need to analyze it.
We need to think about it.
We need to look at the data.
I think that the current board is, they go with the flow.
Nobody wants to ruffle any feathers.
I don't think that they do the proper research or have the proper discussion that they need
to have on very important issues.
And I would commit to doing that, doing it openly, you know, not on the side, not in

(51:05):
ex parte meetings where the public doesn't hear what you're saying.
I believe all commissioners need to receive the same information before it's been massaged
by whoever the masseuse is.
I can guess who that is.
I think there's a lot of that now.
We need to eradicate that.
Bruce, what sets you apart from your competition?

(51:27):
We won't say his name.
No, that's fine.
And to be honest with you, I don't know him very well and I don't know what his qualifications
are.
So I'm going to tell you not so much compare him, but tell you why I think I'm prepared
for the job.
First of all, I think I'm a proven leader.
It started, you know, a lot of people don't think of this way, but I started my professional

(51:47):
life off as a teacher and a coach in my last year in Everett.
I coached the, I'll think of it by season, the seventh grade girls basketball, the varsity
boys basketball and the JV boys baseball.
And you're a leader, you're leading young people.
And when you're in a classroom teaching, you're a leader, you're gaining valuable leadership
experience.
And then I got into a law enforcement career, ended up being a detective and really helped

(52:11):
to mentor and lead and teach other officers major investigation.
Started up on a drug team and was the assistant team leader in doing critical drug investigations
and search warrants, a lot of responsibility.
And then ended my career at Ferris as the police chief and as the Ferris emergency manager.
And so I think I've established leadership ability.

(52:36):
I'm a servant leader as far as leadership style goes.
I think I have the education for it, although I'm not as impressed by education as some
might be, but I have a master's degree.
I have a bachelor's degree in education, a master's degree in criminal justice administration.
So I think I'm able to communicate effectively in a written fashion or in person.

(53:01):
I'm 65 years old.
I've seen a lot.
I've done some wild, crazy things.
If anyone has ever read my book, you'll tip your hat and scratch your head and think,
ah, he didn't really do that, did he?
I've done some crazy things.
And you learn, you make mistakes, you learn what to do, you learn how to survive.

(53:21):
One night on the beginning of an undercover case, I thought I was cooked.
I remember being at a table similar to this and there was probably, for the sake of our
discussion, eight adults there, two young teenage children and seven male adults.
And I had a, you'll love this, I had a hidden holster.

(53:45):
It's called thunderware.
It's like a sling you wear, almost like a thong without the back part, without the T.
Can I say that on this show, Chris?
I thought maybe a blocked gas release.
No, no, no, no.
It's not, no.
They call it thunderware.
And I had a five shot revolver in there and I remember thinking, and the main suspect

(54:10):
brought out a loaded Glock, I say it's loaded, the magazine was in it, and he's sitting about
as far as Carmen and I, and he wouldn't say a word to me, and he's got it not pointing
at me like this and he's just eyeballing me.
And I remember thinking, this is how you think, I was pretty calm, but I remember thinking,
well, first of all, I don't have enough bullets in this gun, it's a five shot revolver to

(54:32):
fight my way out of this.
But I also remember people are close enough that I'm confident that I can put a bullet
into each head of the most dangerous people.
And what you do in those situations is you prioritize.
If you've got a 75 year old guy here who's been smoking dope all day and he's sitting
there drooling and every once in a while he's eating a booger, he's probably not the one

(54:55):
most dangerous at that table.
You get a guy across from you who literally pulls his own teeth with pliers, he had about
six left, he pulls them with pliers and he's got a loaded nine millimeter pistol across
from you, staring you down trying to flush you out wondering if you're undercover, you
prioritize.

(55:16):
So I know he was getting the first one in the forehead, this person, the guy gets the
next one, this guy gets the next one, this guy gets the next one, this guy and then I'm
running.
But where I'm going with that is I've been in so many situations in my life where I've
had to learn how to think, how to act, how to get along with people, how to listen, how

(55:38):
to get by.
And being 65 has its drawbacks because you're old but it also has its advantages with wisdom
and the ability to make good judgments and good decisions.
So.
Carmen, what does leadership mean to you?
Leadership is, it's unique and there aren't as many people who have it, who are good at

(55:59):
it.
It's the ability to take varying personalities and skill sets and get them to embrace each
other, get them to embrace the path that everyone on the team has decided to take and do it
in such a manner as that there's respect everywhere and it's mutual respect.
You can't demand respect.

(56:21):
A leader has the ability to make an organization gel.
They have a way to make it fun while you're doing your job.
It has to have purpose, you have to have purpose and it has to be enjoyable or otherwise it's
just the drudgery of whatever task is at hand.

(56:41):
Leadership is, to me the biggest thing is mutual respect and it's building relationships
with each individual who is, I don't want to call them your subordinate because there's
such a big difference between a supervisor and or a manager and a leader.
There are a lot of managers I've ran into in life that are not leaders.

(57:04):
They're problem solvers.
They can pull the best out of people without the personal thing.
No personal attacks, none of that stuff.
It's about you focus on the issue.
You're not a whodunit person, you're a why person.
How do we fix it?
How do we fix it?
What do we need to do different?

(57:25):
So Bruce, what does leadership mean to you?
It's you know again I'm a John Maxwell fan.
He was a pastor, he wrote some really good books on leadership and he really cuts it
right to the core and said leadership is the ability to influence others and that's what
you're doing when you're leading.
You're influencing them.
You're influencing them for the good of the organization or the team or the family or

(57:49):
you know whatever leadership role you're in.
Sometimes you know there have been powerful leaders throughout history who are evil and
you hope that people who have those high leadership skills use their like with the Spider-Man
you know use your powers for good not evil.
But it's the ability to influence others.

(58:13):
It's the ability to bring out the best in people, to find out where you at, where would
you like to be, what can you develop for the good of the organization, for the good of
you, your self-esteem, your career and good of the organization.
So it's to figure out you know what the organization needs and influence others to meet the goals

(58:34):
of that organization.
And it sounds simplistic and leadership is you know much more complicated than that but
I also believe that and in leadership theory this is called the great man theory and it's
not very popular especially with the left because it's an old theory that is male dominated
but I believe it's very true.

(58:56):
I believe people are I've coined the phrase a leadership quotient an LQ instead of an
IQ.
I think every human being is born with a certain leadership quotient.
And a very small leadership quotient ends up being a follower.
Yes.
Yes, definitely.
Very true and that doesn't mean you can't improve your leadership ability.

(59:17):
You can but I don't think people with a low IQ can ever be a great leader.
I think you have this just like you know but I think that some people are born with it,
never get a chance to develop it.
I think there are people who put into leadership positions who improve but I think there's

(59:38):
a cap on them.
I think they have a cap on them they can only go so high in leadership but it's really you
know finding out individually what people need, being their champion for them developing,
getting a chance to develop themselves whether it's opportunities, training, retraining,
whatever it is and to bring that together for the good of the organization.

(01:00:02):
Carmen.
If I could one thing on leadership.
It's hard to define, it's hard but I know it when I see it.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, it's true.
There's this intuition that tells you.
Yeah, when you see it you know it.
People want to follow a leader.
They do.
Yeah.
Carmen, who inspired you to be where you're at today?

(01:00:26):
Who was your biggest inspiration?
That's a personal question but that's okay.
I think it was my father.
My father came from, he was the eldest of 10 siblings.
They lived in a house that had one bedroom, they had an outhouse.

(01:00:48):
He pulled himself up, he worked his behind off for a lot of years.
He served in Korea.
He was not an educated man but he was an intelligent man and I saw his work ethic and I saw his
work ethic, how much he struggled to make it.

(01:01:09):
We had five children in our family and we were a five.
How many?
I can't believe, sorry to interrupt you, the similarities between you and I.
My father was a laborer in a factory.
He served in Korea, he was a wounded vet.
I miss him terribly.

(01:01:29):
I lost him 15 years ago in a car accident and he made it work.
Our family was, my mom had a couple of kids when my father met her.
I never knew that they weren't his kids because that's the way he treated them.

(01:01:51):
I didn't know that and he adopted them and nurtured them and cared for them and loved
them.
He made everything work.
Back then he worked at a refrigerator factory in Greenville and sometimes he would work
at both of the refrigerator factories, one on days and one on nights to make ends meet.

(01:02:13):
It was difficult and I just see what he did and that's really had a large impact on me
in my life.
He carved out a life and that's all any of us could do.
Bruce, who was your biggest inspiration?
Scary, it would be my father.

(01:02:34):
My father served her in Korea, five kids in our family and he had an extremely high LQ.
Never had a moment, he had high school education, all of my grandparents were immigrants.
Noah is a tremendous athlete.
An army buddy of his told me one time when they were in the army, he was stationed in

(01:02:55):
Germany and he was such a good athlete that he and his crew, he was an RTO but he was
in his crew, there was a barn at a basketball court and all they did was practice because
it was a big thing between generals, the competition, big bragging rights.
He was a great athlete.

(01:03:16):
One of his buddies said, one day your dad was down at the, whatever it would have been,
the Texas professional team back in the late 40s, I don't know what team that was, but
they were practicing in their stadium and he said your dad was taking batting practice
and he started hitting home runs over the fence and after several we all just put our

(01:03:36):
gloves down and watch and he hit like 17 home runs over a professional league fence in a
row.
But he was a tremendous man, a tremendous, he lived by example, sacrificed everything
for his family, very high and I think my brothers and I have a high LQ, I think it just comes,

(01:03:56):
it isn't anything you brag about, it's what you're born with, I think we got it from my
dad.
So, and he always, everything you do is based on doing the right thing.
He was very spiritual but everything you ever do is based on doing the right and moral thing.
I love the athletic aspect of a tour with your father.

(01:04:18):
My father was a boxer.
Really?
Yes.
I have some 8 by 10 glossies if you will of him out cold in the middle of the ring with
a little blood dripping from his nose.
Wow.
Like in the service?
Yeah, in the service, mostly when he was in Panama.
But yeah, they have an impact, you know, they had a major impact.

(01:04:43):
Closing thoughts before we end the show?
I think it's, we've been here a long time.
Yeah, we don't do breaks on here, we don't got to, there's no sponsors because you can't,
there's no one to cancel me.
That's true.
I'm not doing this for money, I don't care.
If I could, is it really some closing thoughts?
You know, one of the things that I see currently with the current county commission and I see

(01:05:08):
it throughout a lot of the municipalities and their leadership teams.
They push the problems to the bottom of the barrel.
They want to push them back down.
You need to pick those off.
You need to prioritize them.
You need to pick it off.
You need to resolve the issue.
You need to implement corrective action, which is irreversible.

(01:05:29):
You need to verify that what you did worked.
Okay, now get on to the next problem.
We don't do that.
Our leaders do not, excuse me, our wannabe leaders do not do that.
And we, you know, as an example at the county level, we've had difficulty with the prosecuting
office with finding people.
The man's been overworked for I don't know how.
Unbelievable.

(01:05:49):
Since Brian Thede left.
Yeah.
And you know, the public doesn't even know this.
Yes.
Yeah.
And there's kind of been an effort for the public not to know that.
Yes, there has been an effort for the public not to know that.
And that's unfortunate.
Poor Jonathan, I don't know how he does it.
He was the junior prosecutor, very experienced prosecutor Brian Thede.
And I feel so bad for their family.

(01:06:10):
Yes.
Oh yeah.
I feel like that has on a family.
Yeah.
It's like, you know, it's no matter what profession you're in, if you're not supported.
His family has done a lot for their child.
I've heard that.
And then God bless them and help them in that issue they're going through.
And then Amy Clapp, a good prosecutor, a good conservative attorney, I became judge and

(01:06:35):
she's doing a great job.
But suddenly you've got the junior prosecutor who's got the whole office.
And I don't know how he survives on a day to day basis.
I think they finally if Goshen comes in, people are going to move here for all the jobs in
the area and we might just get another prosecutor.
And if you ever hear me do that, when someone says something that is so stupid, it doesn't

(01:07:00):
warrant a response.
I'll go and you'll hear me do this.
I'll say, huh, that's interesting.
Well we go to finance because there's no tax revenue coming in.
I thought there was 44 million.
No, 44 million.
You're on Carmen after 30 years.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, that's right.
And I'm sure there's still be lithium technology.

(01:07:20):
You mean from Goshen itself.
If Chuck doesn't eat it all.
You wonder if he's going to pop up in one of these articles with an eyeball going out
of his head or something.
I still think someone should have given the man a glass of water to see what happened
with the lithium.
Well, he needs to snort it in the next time he doesn't need to snort it.

(01:07:41):
Why?
Because as he stated in the first chat with Chuck, he stated that they're nanoparticles,
they're nanoparticles 10 micron, complex material, meaning that they have a lot of surface areas.
So if the thing with the large amount of surface area gets into your lungs at that micron level,

(01:08:10):
you're going to have problems.
Yes.
Okay.
And he keeps saying, oh, well, it's going to be worse than COVID.
COVID had a lot of surface area, a lot of attachment points.
Okay.
Those nanoparticles, if you breathe that in, when it's justified at a micron level, that's
good.
It isn't anything that well.
So snort it next time, Chuck, snort it.

(01:08:31):
Show everybody how safe it is.
You know, I just, I think we need to be more responsible.
I think we need to represent the citizens more than we do.
I'm not so sure we do.
You take a look as an example, the funding that was given for the dragon trail.
I mean, that's like so far south and west in the county.

(01:08:52):
Yeah.
I mean, they come up to eight mile on the east side of the river.
They go across the river and they go right back into the way you go.
There is no, it's going to bring tourism to big rapids is what they said.
People who ride bikes stay in tents.
They don't stay in hotels.
They have the little boy scout mess kit.

(01:09:13):
Okay.
They don't go to restaurants.
It's a, they're a different animal.
You know, they're outdoors folks.
That's what they do.
And it's, the people who made those decisions, they're always right.
I suppose.
That's interesting.
That's interesting.
I'm going to start doing that too.
I like that.
It's a beautiful, actually a good trooper buddy of mine taught me that years ago.

(01:09:37):
And that's interesting.
I can't wait to hear that.
When in a meeting during a, you're going to hear it and you'll be the only, you too
will be the only ones laughing.
During public comments, you just, instead of giving no response, you should just say,
huh, that's interesting.
And you can even to be extra dramatic, you can point, huh.
That's, and because when you say that someone thinks, wow, he really cares about what I

(01:10:01):
think he must believe me.
He's not wearing the same page when what you're saying is that is so stupid.
I'm not going to give it a response.
Do you ever watch Bugs Bunny when you're with him?
Remember when he called the Elmer Fudd a maroon?
A maroon.
Yeah.
A maroon.
Instead of a moron.
A maroon.
And that's what I think when people do that.
Yeah.

(01:10:21):
Public discussion, public decision making.
What about for the, my brother's keeper?
We need to address this homeless issue and the county is skirting that issue.
And the other counties are giving money.
No.
And resolving the issue does not mean welcoming more by providing all those services.

(01:10:41):
That's not how you resolve this issue.
This is a huge issue.
It's not just, it's no longer local people.
No.
And it's not a township issue only.
It's not a city issue only.
It's not a county issue only.
This goes to the state, to the feds.
We need to fund that kind of stuff.
Let's fund mental health.
Amen brother.

(01:11:02):
Yeah.
Especially with the guy with the machete and the parakeet.
Amen brother.
Let's not fund Chinese battery plants.
Yeah.
You got it.
You just hit two such huge areas.
I have so much compassion for two things.
People with mental health issues and addictions.
And it gets so easy to say, well, you shouldn't have been addicted.
Or you shouldn't have lived a lifestyle which gave you those mental health problems.

(01:11:24):
The problem is sometimes people get there and they don't want to be there.
They don't do it.
It seems like they did it consciously because of the lifestyle they chose, but it doesn't
matter once you're there.
It's a hot mess and it's growing.
Each of us have that genetic, obsessive, compulsive desire.
Okay.

(01:11:45):
It just manifests itself in so many different ways.
Some of us love to go hunting.
Some of us love to go fishing.
Some of us love sports cars.
Some of us love alcohol or drugs.
And it's just, you know, it's by the luck of the draw how yours is manifested.
And that's unfortunate, but those folks need help.

(01:12:08):
We need to help them.
Because it's compassionate.
But the other thing is they cost us a ton of money in other ways.
Yes, they do.
So what is that balance?
You know, I'm a responsible, fiscally responsible guy and I don't like fat cat government spending.
But at the same time, people with addictions, mental health problems, they're costing us

(01:12:31):
a fortune.
So are there public monies that could go toward them that maybe in the long run would save
us tax dollars?
I don't know.
Maybe.
Yeah.
I mean, we have a tendency as a nation to just throw money at the problem.
There's no thought that goes into it, there's no what's the real problem.
You can't fix anything until you know what the problem is.

(01:12:54):
We're just shooting at the moon, so to speak.
You mentioned in the wind, is that the term?
School security.
The first 50 billion, I think that went to Ukraine, I watched a law enforcement professional
and he had he broke it down to every school building in the United States.

(01:13:15):
Junior schools, junior highs, high schools, trade schools, career centers.
And for far less than the first payment that we sent to Ukraine, you could have highly
trained experienced police officers in every school in America every day, all day long,
not security guards or not.

(01:13:35):
But if you get rid of all the guns, then you wouldn't need that.
Well, there you go.
That's interesting.
Where are our priorities?
Listen, I have compassion for what's going on in Ukraine.
I care more about what's going on here first than I care passionately about our children.
It needs to be one issue bills instead of wrapping everything up into multiple bills.

(01:14:00):
One issue per bill.
Issue, vote on it.
If the issue can't get voted on with its own merit, exactly.
It didn't deserve to pass.
Exactly.
That needs to be fixed.
What do you guys know about the what's that?
Nothing about the I was at the GOP meeting.

(01:14:23):
There was a presentation on the Oh, the constitutional convention.
Yes.
Convention of States.
Yeah.
What do you guys thoughts on that?
You know, I said they did a presentation on Thursday about that and I had some questions.

(01:14:45):
I'm scared to death.
I am as well.
And our Constitution is still the longest.
The oldest them doing that.
I'm scared to death of anyone opening up our Constitution.
Okay, everything is open.
Okay.
Our Constitution is the longest standing document that provides a framework for government in
the history of the world.
And I remember having a discussion with a professor at Ferris and she was a professor

(01:15:09):
and they were talking about we're in particular talking about Second Amendment.
And I'm a big Second Amendment guy.
I'm a big Constitution guy.
I don't pay amendments.
But anyhow, she was talking about how the Constitution needs to be changed because it
didn't protect her people at a certain point in history.
Yes, it did.
People didn't protect her people.
The Constitution is perfect.

(01:15:29):
The Constitution is colorblind.
And it recognized nowhere in the Constitution does it say people of this particular color
or gender or nationality are the ones protected by it.
It's perfect.
It was humans who failed.
And so I am really scared of the concept of opening up our Constitution to make changes.

(01:15:52):
So they did this presentation and they show some videos and you know the people are very
nice.
They are.
Very nice people.
I've seen the presentation.
I'm listening to it and I'm looking and I'm like, okay, first off is Article 5, which
has never been used ever in the history.
Okay.
That's their whole justification is, oh, it was built into the Constitution.

(01:16:13):
Let's use it.
Okay.
Well, it's never been used.
We can amend the Constitution in other ways.
I don't think we should.
And the second thing is their whole justification is they want to add term limits and they want
to do something with making a balanced budget.
Okay.
Yes.

(01:16:34):
That's their two main reasons of why they want to do this.
And I raise my hand.
I'm like, okay, I appreciate you guys doing this.
But first of all, it's never been used.
Do you really want to open that can of worms for somebody to come around later?
And number two, the whole Constitution is opened up for editing when you do that.

(01:16:57):
And they immediately was like, no, no, no, it's not opened up for the whole thing.
People can go to jail for going against and doing things that they're not supposed to.
I said, show me in the Constitution where it says that.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it have these protections against opening it all up.
Once you open it up, you open it up.

(01:17:19):
So I'm like, this is ridiculous.
Number two, I don't think we're in a situation for term limits and a balanced budget in the
sense to edit and put our Constitution at risk over term limits and that.
The problem is in my mind, and this is just my generation, that problem is not term limits

(01:17:41):
at all.
The problem is there's no accountability.
That's the problem.
Okay.
There's no accountability.
We already have a process to do this.
It's called the vote.
Correct.
The problem is our voted elected officials are unaccountable.
So many.
Right.
And we don't get involved enough to hold them accountable.
You're spot on.
Let's fix.

(01:18:02):
Now, I don't think people should be career politicians, but that's besides the point.
The problem isn't that there's term limits.
It's the there's no accountability.
So I said, let's solve the root cause of the issue.
Let's solve the accountability.
I said as I as kind of like a joke, you can fix the accountability issue right now.
You can fix the economy any time the deficit is more than three percent of the GDP.

(01:18:29):
All elected officials are ineligible to run it for reelection.
Boom, bam, you fix it.
You fix it immediately because then everybody, even if they're good, boom, immediately.
Because what is the number one thing?
What's the number one thing?
What does one of them want?
Another term.
Exactly.
Yes, that power is addictive.
When you get power, you want more power and money is addictive.

(01:18:51):
And the amount of money that we spend in this country on politics is unbelievable.
But then they say, well, no one's going to pass that law to do that.
And I say, you're right, because we're not holding our people accountable.
We have a process to do it now.
It's our vote.
Yes.
But you get your people in there that are going to agree.

(01:19:11):
And I guess why don't we all start doing oaths since can't do oaths, the other side says.
I think we should all start doing oaths.
Oaths that you're going to our federal people are going to put this thing in there to hold
them accountable.
Boom.
Or replace them and put your own other people in.
I mean, that's what we just got to do.
Get the boots on the ground and affect the change.

(01:19:31):
We need to get some Dr. Sherry O'Donnells in.
She is a tremendous.
Listen to her.
She is a physician.
She's an internist from southwest Michigan.
I've become friends with her.
She's deployed herself five times to the border.
She's deployed herself to every medical emergency across the globe for the last 25 years.

(01:19:54):
She's brilliant.
She's so conservative.
She's very spiritual.
She's an ordained minister.
She is so amazing.
I encourage anyone listening to this.
Get out and look at Dr. Sherry O'Donnell.
She's running for U.S. Senate.
She's incredible.
And she's exactly the kind of people you're talking about that will be held accountable.

(01:20:16):
She knows why she's running and she'll be held accountable.
The other thing I said is, OK, so let's just say that it was restricted and no one's going
to edit it.
What's going to stop the left from remaking their own convention of states and changing
to get rid of the guns or getting rid of free speech?
They said, oh, there's not it takes 38 blue states.

(01:20:38):
I said, yes, but you underestimate the power of the rhinos.
The rhinos, the difference between Democrats and Republicans is that the Democrats are
very much work in hive mind.
They work together to push what they want to do.
Where Republicans don't because there's too many people out there with their own personal
agenda.

(01:20:58):
Too many have been bought.
Too many rhinos out there.
Yeah, exactly, that it will bend for whatever lobbying or whatever.
Or to stay in power.
Exactly.
So that's the problem.
And you underestimate just because the color is a you need 38 blue states and we don't
have 38 blue states doesn't mean you're not going to get some rhinos to shift.

(01:21:22):
And so it might not happen now if the Constitution or convention of states happen.
It might not be right now, but it will be my generation that will have to reap the benefit,
reap the repercussions.
The whirlwind.
The whirlwind of opening that can of worms.
And I said, it's I'm not willing to have you guys because you're worried about the budget

(01:21:43):
right now and term limits ruin it for my generation.
They have to deal with it.
They cannot mitigate that risk.
No, no, no.
That risk is there.
And the thing is, there are so many special interest groups in this country that a number
of tales wag the dog.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And they're right.
The concepts, the our budget, it's a perversion of what this country they're right.

(01:22:08):
They're not saying in term limits.
I'm not willing to wager the Constitution.
That's not the fix.
Yeah, exactly.
There's we have the way to do it.
And you know, you ask, why are we getting involved?
We're both grandpas.
We're retirees.
It would be so much easier.
His view out at his place is as beautiful as mine to just sit out there and sit bourbon

(01:22:29):
every night and do nothing.
But how do you change it?
Get involved and hold people accountable.
Yeah.
Don't sit back and bitch.
No, don't do something.
Yeah.
And if involved and if you don't ages, yes, at all ages, all ages, we need more people
my age.
There's 100 percent.
We've talked about that.
How many other 30 year olds are involved, knowledgeable or care enough about the political

(01:22:54):
landscape?
And they're hard to find.
Yeah.
But if you know, if you don't get involved, you don't care, then don't say a word when
stuff gets rammed down your throat.
Just sit there and take it like a good little sheep.
And you can take it like the rest of the libertarians do because they are losing and they just just

(01:23:16):
well, I I voted.
Yeah.
Well, you know, Billy Joel said we didn't start the fire.
We did not.
And there is a fire and I'm going to fight it.
I wish that's the only part that I miss on the radio is I could have played that song
right now.
And so, you know what?
I guess I am looking for.
Well, we could, but I'm looking for sponsors of the show just so that I can get the licensing

(01:23:40):
so that I can put that music on this podcast.
Well, let's put you on the face of the earth.
There's got to be some sponsors out there.
Number one.
Expensive.
I mean, it's for me to just pay it, but I'm not looking for sponsors to to then control
what I do.
I'm just needed for the money to keep these type of things.
And why are they sponsoring?

(01:24:01):
You're developing a pretty popular show here.
They're going to sell some of their products.
So that's a that's a two way street.
I just will not be controlled by you.
You mean wait a minute.
Everyone says we control everything you do that you're a puppet for us.
No, not so much.
No wrong answer.
What's where where's that?
Your buzzer.
Yeah, one of my favorites.
I need to work on this.

(01:24:22):
That's true.
I have the time.
Nobody knows what I'm going to do until I've done it.
And then after you do it, you get a text or call from me, don't you?
Why in the heck did you do that?
You never should have done that.
And I don't listen.
And I just say to myself, Chris, how'd that work out for you?
Or sometimes we say, you keep attacking me.

(01:24:45):
Sometimes afterward we say, huh, that's interesting.
How do you do it?
This is going to be funny because in a public forum sometime in the next year, I'm going
to do that.
And you two are going to be the only one laughing in the room because no one else will know
what I'm doing.

(01:25:05):
All right.
Well, this is the longest show we've done.
We've had no breaks.
It's been fun.
It is.
I kind of miss this.
I'm sitting here watching the whitetail on the field.
Just one.
I see three or four.
Yeah, there's a bunch that come out there.
All right.
I think we're done with this show.
Well, thank you for inviting us to participate in your propaganda.

(01:25:27):
We need change and we need it now.
Yes, we do.
And someone has to start.
And if little old Macosta County is the one to do it, we're going to be the one to do
it.
Hey, Macosta County is what started the conservative movement in the first place with Russell
Kirk.
Russell Kirk, I hope he would be proud of that.

(01:25:47):
This is round out.
I think he would be.
I read a couple.
Actually, Chapman said he would be rolling over in his grave.
He said that in November.
He's laughing at Jim.
You know, the one thing I've learned from him in his book is that, you know, where does
the word conservatism come from?
Conserving those things that we hold so precious.
Conserving the permanent things.

(01:26:09):
Conserving the permanent things, conserving our faith, conserving a structure of our constitution,
and conserving the good things, that's the conservative movement.
You know, his thought, his statement on change being there's a permanence to it.
Yes.
And it's unknown.
Yes.

(01:26:29):
But once it's done, it's done.
It's done.
Yes.
You can't go backwards.
That's right.
Well, I've tried closing the show now three times.
This would be the third attempt of closing the show.
How's it working out?
Every time I try to close it, you guys keep coming back for more.
That's interesting.
Hey, that's influence.
This shows I've got some leadership ability.

(01:26:52):
I've influenced you guys.
That's interesting.
It's interesting.
It's a powerful tool.
Yes, it is.
Good night, America.
Good night, America.
Bless you.
This is what we call collaborating evidence.

(01:27:15):
They're not going to stop.
I'm asking simply, do you have any questions about the mushrooms that I grow on my property,

(01:27:51):
my marital infidelities?
Sir, if you are disorderly, the door is that way.
I explained that last month.
There's the door.
Thank the boy.
For bringing us together.

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