December 16, 2023 • 37 mins
From his unique name to his childhood in Maine
Ormand's story is as compelling as it is unconventional.
He takes us through his journey from a humble two-room schoolhouse to becoming the principal of Crossroads Academy and then into waters of Michigan's political scene.
But that's not all. So, buckle up for an part 1 filled with intriguing tales, eye-opening revelations, and a deep dive into the complexities of local affairs that have gone unnoticed...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Long Report.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Chris Long, and today we're diving deep into the intriguing world of local politics and personal journeys.
In this episode, we have an exclusive interview with the fascinating figure, Mr. Orman Hook.
From his unique name to a childhood in Maine, Orman's story is as compelling as it is unconventional.
He takes us through his journey from a humble two-room schoolhouse to becoming the principal of Crossroads Academy,
(00:25):
and then into the waters of Michigan's political scene.
But that's not all, so buckle up for part one, filled with intriguing tales, eye-opening revelations,
and a deep dive into complexities of the local affairs that have gone unnoticed.
So here we go!
I'm setting my own clock.
Communist Party of China.
Red flags are everywhere.
We will be held accountable.
We're not Chinese owned.
(00:46):
They are not going to stop. They're not going to stop.
Oh, this is not a dumb deal.
If the door is that way.
Thank the board for bringing us together.
And now the act you've all been waiting for.
Professional picketers.
And if you don't like it, there's the door.
(01:08):
So today I have Mr. Orman Hook.
Some call him Mr. Dark Money.
The Dark Money Man.
Obviously the Dark Money thing's a joke.
Okay, the opposition needs something to talk about, so we'll give them that.
Whatever.
Anyway, there's no dark money.
So Ormand, first off, where does the name Ormand come from?
(01:31):
I'm the only Ormand Hook in America.
Really?
If you go on the Google search, I'm the only person that comes up,
so it made it easy when I was running for state representative to find me.
But my mom had a cousin, and when my cousin was about 12 years old, he was in an accident.
He was carrying a ladder.
(01:53):
He was between the rungs, and the person in the back tripped and jammed that ladder rung into his kidney area,
and he had a kidney infection, and eventually he died.
Oh my gosh.
So my mom was going to name me Richard, and this was 1947, just the beginning of the baby boom.
She was in the hospital.
(02:13):
There were 12 boys born at that time.
Seven of them were named Richard.
So my mom said, we're going to switch.
So she picked the name of her cousin.
Where are you originally from?
Are you from the Big Rapids area?
No, I'm originally from Maine.
I was born in the center of Maine.
Way up there. Why would you go up there?
Well, that's where we came from.
Stephen King, right?
Yep. And my dad cut pulpwood.
(02:36):
He was a sharecropper.
We lived in a shack, went to a two-room schoolhouse, did that until I was nine years old.
And then my dad got hurt cutting wood.
He didn't have like an injury.
He didn't have a tree fall on him, but I think his back just wore out.
And so he couldn't move for several months.
And when he was able to get around, then he found a job in New York, about 90 miles north of New York City.
(03:03):
And he moved away.
And this was like right after Christmas.
Then he came back at Easter break and visited us.
And then he came back again at the beginning of June and we moved to New York State.
So I entered civilization, went to a big school, more than two rooms.
Kind of broke that Appalachian lifestyle.
(03:24):
Yeah.
At least.
Well, so how did you end up in Big Rapids though?
At what point? When did you move here?
Well, the Air Force brought me here in 1971.
To Michigan?
Yep. And they stationed me up at Kinshaw Air Force Base in the UP.
Drove across the bridge late September, dark, dreary, drizzly day, all cloudy, driving north.
(03:48):
And all I see is this swamp land with trees that, you know, not maple trees, old trees, just scrubbed trees.
And at any moment I expected a moose or a bear to be in the road.
I was a little bit freaked out.
Yeah.
So then I went to St. Marie and Kinshaw Air Force Base was right near there.
(04:09):
So correct me if I'm wrong, but a long time ago you were the principal of Crossroads Academy here in Big Rapids.
Yes, I was the first principal of Crossroads Academy.
That was the fall of 1998.
We started, they hired me June 1st and by September we had almost 400 students.
(04:30):
So you were the first principal?
I was the first principal.
Oh wow.
We built a boat and sailed it all at the same time.
Terry, your wife, also worked at Crossroads.
Yeah, she was the secretary.
And so you met your wife there.
Yeah, I met my wife there.
But the Air Force brought me here and I was in the central Michigan area.
And one of my assignments back in the 70s was Macosta Osceola,
(04:55):
entered me at school district as a school psychologist.
I left, became a school administrator for about 18 years in different places and then came back to this area at that time.
So I've been here continuously since 1998.
When did you get first involved with politics?
Well, I remember in third grade, General Eisenhower was running for president.
(05:16):
The only thing I remember was somebody had a button that said, I like Ike.
That was his campaign slogan.
But I always was interested in history, always interested in geography and places.
I remember that very distinctly, the Kennedy-Nixon debates in 1960.
Watched those first televised presidential campaign debate ever.
(05:41):
But I've always been interested.
I've always been interested in world affairs and national affairs over even local affairs.
I remember listening to Barry Goldwater give his acceptance speech at the 1964 nominating convention in Arizona
and driving in the car with my family listening, had my family turn the radio on and listen to that.
(06:04):
But I've just always been interested because it's about ideas.
It's kind of like a war of ideas.
And that just has always fascinated me.
So a few years ago, you ran.
I ran for the Michigan House of Representatives for the same position that Tom Koontz now has.
I thought you ran against Hoeninga.
I ran against Michelle Hoeninga, but they've changed the districts.
(06:27):
But I just use Tom Koontz as a reference because people may be more familiar with his name right now.
I worked very, very hard. It was tough. I lost.
Yeah. And when was that?
That was 2016.
I'm glad I lost. I feel bad that I may have let people down in the sense that I didn't win.
(06:48):
What is the biggest thing that you've learned from that experience?
Well, I learned about campaigning and everything we did this summer with getting those petitions signed,
going door to door, collecting information, learning how to do mailers, helping the candidates,
help them with where they would go, mapping out their campaign.
(07:11):
So what I learned then, I'm applying now.
And, you know, this is where we started with Big Rapids Township and Green Township,
and then we're on to the next level.
What is the next level?
Well, for me, the next level is the county commissioners, because I feel our county should be like a fortress.
It should be a stronghold.
(07:32):
The commissioners and other elected folks should be like on guard duty protecting us.
And they've let us down.
Definitely.
They have not paid attention to all the lies that they were told. They've not done...
And then when we told them the truth, did they listen?
They don't even want to listen.
(07:53):
I, you know, as a psychologist for like 50 years...
Oh, yeah, we didn't even touch on that.
You know, I should have some insight into human behavior,
but I have no idea why people's eyes are just completely glazed over and their ears are plugged
when you can show them the exact proof by documents from Goshen, Goshen, Inc., any other place,
(08:19):
their stockholders meeting, their annual report.
We don't want to know anything.
Yeah, they don't care.
And I cannot even comprehend that.
Yeah, there's some commissioners that will even say that they don't even care what company it is
as long as they bring jobs, but they're for it.
A lot of problems with that statement in the sense that, well, there aren't going to be 2,300 jobs.
(08:42):
A lot of it's going to turn into robotics.
They keep downsizing the workforce.
They downsize the size of the operation, the size of their buildings.
Who even knows what they're going to make?
They've changed that a couple of times.
Yeah, no, it started out being cathodes and anodes,
or I actually think it was originally the full battery, and then it turned into cathodes and anodes,
(09:04):
and then now it's only one of those two.
I don't remember which one, but one of them needs less water,
and that's why Fred Gunther is a little ticked, I've heard,
that they only want 20,000 instead of almost a million.
That big, rapid city would be selling them.
But the jobs, there are jobs vacant all over the place.
(09:26):
There's jobs vacant all over the state, all over the country,
and I really struggled for a while trying to figure out why that was until I learned that,
well, for about every three senior citizens, people my age, as they retire,
there's only like one person coming along to replace them in the workforce.
There aren't workers.
Yeah, and my generation don't want to work in a manufacturing plant.
(09:50):
It's your guys' generation. Well, younger than you, but yeah, it's the older generation.
So we have empty jobs, jobs that are paid just as much as Goshen supposedly is going to pay,
and that target keeps changing.
People travel out of the county to work. People travel here to work.
I think most of the fairest professors actually drive in, at least that's what I've heard.
(10:15):
A lot of them live like down in Rockford.
They live in a community that more fits their temperament or their cultural background,
and they drive up here to where the peasants live and teach.
And I am the chief peasant, okay?
I lived on a back road, a mountain road, the last house, the last farmhouse,
(10:38):
which a few years after we moved away just collapsed on itself.
Oh my gosh.
That's how much of a shack we lived in.
So I'm the chief of the peasants, the chief of the rednecks.
Are you a professional protester like Jerrolyn Strong says you are?
I haven't received any checks. I am from here.
(10:59):
I must be good at it if they're calling me a pro.
Are you Antifa?
No.
The attacks against the people who are just trying to live here and protect themselves are really foolish.
And so far from the truth, I'm not even sure they believe the things they say,
but they think that, well, maybe this is going to get some traction.
(11:22):
Do you think that they're being told basically what to say?
Do you really think that these commissioners truly believe what they're saying,
or are they just trying to fit the narrative that they're told?
I remember them saying at the Senate meeting that the whole county is for this,
or they haven't talked to a single person that isn't for this, and everybody wants it.
(11:43):
Who's telling them this?
I believe that...
Is that an echo chamber situation?
I believe that at their level it is an echo chamber.
I do not believe Jerrolyn Strong, the chair of the county commission, even wrote her speech.
I'm pretty confident that that was written for her.
And maybe in her office room that she has, in her commissioner room,
(12:05):
everybody's singing and dancing and excited that all of this is going to happen.
But in real people, real people aren't for this.
We intuitively know that communism is bad.
We intuitively know that America's enemy...
It defeats why we moved up here.
A lot of us who didn't come from the area.
Why would... you know, we want to get away from...
(12:27):
Everybody's retiring and moving up here.
There's so many people...
This is where you retire and vacation.
Yes, yes.
And again, it goes back...
Earlier we talked about how sort of dense that the information isn't getting into them.
Well, they're not thinking, they're not reasoning, they're not researching anything.
There's a reason Doubting Thomas was doubting.
(12:48):
Okay, he said, show me the proof.
Well, you know, where's the beef?
They just can't even ask that question.
Which again, as a psychologist, I'm not even sure where that sense of denseness even comes from.
So on December 12th, 2023, there was a township meeting.
(13:09):
The room was full as usual.
You were there, I was there.
So what was your perspective?
And let's first talk about the first part of the meeting.
What was your perspective?
One of the very distinctive differences in Green and the Big Rapids Township,
with the new leadership, the tension is gone.
(13:31):
The people at the board, sitting at the tables leading, have conversation.
They deal with the public.
My sense of the meeting was...
The tone is completely different.
The tone is so different.
Just to be a slightly critical, I thought, like, I'm kind of antsy.
I want things to move.
Action, action, action, action, action.
(13:53):
But many things were covered.
And again, mundane things, until they got to the exciting parts.
Did you see that Chuck Thelen was actually at the township meeting?
He wasn't even at a meeting since May, was he?
Correct, correct.
He hasn't been here.
He hasn't been the most friendly place to show up.
And probably for health reasons, he decided not to.
(14:16):
What was he wearing?
Well, he had camo on.
Did he have a baseball cap on?
I think he had a baseball cap on.
And some camo.
When he gave his big speech back in May, he was trying to tell everybody
what a great boy scout he was, how he had hunting property, and he did this.
And just a good old boy trying to...
(14:37):
Trying to fit in.
Trying to fit in and make it look like he's not bringing in a foreign business into our community.
I actually have that clip of him saying that he's basically one of us.
Here's that clip.
I call myself the redneck behind the charity desk.
Because yes, I have a title.
Yes, I have a big job.
But on the weekends, I'm riding my tractor, just like a number of you folks.
(15:00):
Well, the important thing is you don't even have to say that.
We can just look at each other and kind of know how we fit in and such.
It was just awkward, but it was good they didn't say anything.
I know some folks were ready to speak if anything had been said.
And I don't think he...
Do you think he should have spoke?
(15:21):
No, I don't think that would have been gasoline on a fire.
Probably.
So towards the end of the meeting, there was some spiciness that happened with the internet company
or the internet provider to the township and the IT services.
So just so that we can give some background to our listeners who don't really know the full information,
(15:44):
Green Township works with this company, provides them internet and IT services,
and also sells internet to the township and has all their equipment on the towers,
and also is renting space from the basement of the township hall.
And so what happened last night?
(16:07):
Well, the board took two actions.
The first one is that they severed the business relationship with the IT provider.
They're supposed to help with the copy machines, the printers, the computers, the email, the phone service.
Whenever they break or don't work properly, they are supposed to fix them.
(16:30):
They're supposed to be providing some security firewalls for cyber attacks or whatever.
They severed that agreement.
The second action that took place was the township building itself now is going to have its own secure internet connection
(16:51):
and doesn't have to come through the mystery business so that the township,
the new township board is trying to set up safety and security for its operations.
We're not really sure about the safety and security prior to this point.
We know that there's been some fiddling with actions that have been business actions,
(17:15):
computer actions, email actions in the last month.
So they're trying to sever that, get it all clean,
so that the people can rest assured that they're going to get safe and secure business procedures.
Yesterday was actually six years to the day to the first township hall meeting that I ever went to when I first moved up here.
(17:39):
And what I observed at that first meeting, it was about this IT evaluation, this company presenting to the board.
They were talking about, oh, well, we basically kind of need to get a foothold, a baseline of where we are.
Because six years ago, this was right after Bob Baldwin died, the previous supervisor.
(18:02):
And Chapman had just gotten in the supervisor role as the replacement because the term, the election term wasn't up yet.
So six years ago, they were looking into IT in general of buying these new things and evaluating where they got.
And then now, six years later, we're basically doing the reset and getting rid of the company that I saw.
(18:30):
And I even mentioned it at the meeting.
I said, what are you talking about an IT evaluation for $1,200 or something like that?
It was like some absurd amount.
And Ross Meads was right there. He also said it, too.
We wanted to see what was on this quote.
It was an IT quote. And Jim would not tell us, would not show us.
He said, oh, you have to FOIA that. Why do I have to FOIA it?
(18:53):
It's everybody on the board's looking at it right now.
Why do I have to FOIA something you're discussing and voting on giving $1,200, $1,300, $1,400?
I don't remember exactly what it was.
But the point is, is what I heard from that company gave me red flags.
Red flags are everywhere.
Red flags were everywhere based on what that company was saying.
(19:16):
I could tell that they were they didn't know what they were saying.
Or what really I could tell was that company was taking advantage of the board, their knowledge of technology or lack of knowledge of technology.
And that company was more or less using buzzwords or words that make them sound trustworthy and know that they know what they're talking about.
(19:42):
And it didn't fool me. And it didn't fool Ross Meads.
And the reason it didn't fool you guys, because I know you and I know Ross Meads, you have a supreme background in technology.
But the board members who pride themselves and being in office for decades and I'm I'm older.
OK, I'm 76 years old. You can you can fool me on all this new technology.
(20:08):
So if you're talking to a group of board members who are senior citizens, they're not up on all this new language.
It's no wonder they were able to just come in and fool with fancy words.
Oh, yeah. Like, you know, I do kind of know what a flux capacitor is.
But the rest of this, I really am not into. Yeah. Yeah. And they and they trusted them.
(20:30):
And I can't tell based on the history of everything that's gone on again.
We'll talk about that in a later episode. But essentially some things occurred during 2015 and it made the board think of that company as the hero.
And so since then, he's basically got everything regarding anything technology, whether it's cameras or servers or firewall, this or updating the computer or and doing those over and over.
(20:59):
Over every month, there's something going out to him. OK, I don't know how much money would you say that the old board were handing out to that company every month?
I know in the last two and a half years, we foiled all of their financial statements.
There was over two hundred and twenty thousand dollars.
(21:21):
That's by one figure, depending on how many invoices you put in there, up to like two hundred and forty eight thousand dollars given to this company over two and one half years.
That's taxpayer money. Yeah. That's the residents paying their taxes.
Give it being given to this private company to do whatever their magic is.
That was just given away. And I looked into this company and and I talked to some people.
(21:47):
I actually talked to some of their customers. And the thing that I found is on Michigan, Laura, the the spell that L.A.R.A.
that it's the corporation search for the state of Michigan, any any company we want to look into, you can just search that company. It will give you their their reporting for the year of who's the directors, where they're located, things like that.
(22:10):
And what I noticed was that the location that is for L.A.R.A. does not match what is on the invoices that that company is telling their customers to send the checks to or just in general, the invoices for the their service.
(22:31):
It was actually appalling what that address is.
A federally subsidized housing that has lots of restrictions and requirements for who is eligible to live there.
A friend of mine is actually researching that right now.
And he's real sure that you cannot run a business out of a federally subsidized home.
(22:56):
Yes. And he's working on that, getting some background information from the main office like down in Grand Rapids.
Yeah, it's smoke and mirrors more like Goshen smoke and mirrors everywhere to be a common pattern that these things are going on in the in the background.
And a lot of people don't know or can't even believe I've talked to some people.
(23:18):
I talked to people six years ago and they were like, oh, it's not the big deal.
They don't they don't comprehend it.
And now things are coming out and they're seeing, oh, there's definitely something going on.
What's going on type situation.
For me personally, the thing that's I mean, all of this is bad and I know a lot of information that we're going to get into.
(23:39):
This is really bad. But even bigger than this, like I said, in the last two and a half years, over two hundred twenty thousand dollars of taxpayer.
Just the last two years, just the last two and a half years has been paid to this company to provide a service.
Yeah, it's like a supposedly a business investment and according to their contract, their management agreement.
(24:03):
Yeah, I think we have that management agreement.
Yes, we do. And on page two of that, let me just say, let me turn.
There's three towers in the in the area, three or four, three.
Well, there's technically four.
If you count the one on the township behind the hall, one to the north, one to the south, one right there, twenty two mile Boy Scout Camp and then the tower behind the township hall.
(24:28):
But the maintenance and management agreement, let's talk about that.
So it says so we've paid them nearly the people of Green Township has paid them nearly a quarter of a million dollars.
And in the last three years, it will definitely be up there to a quarter of a million.
That investment is supposed to have a return to the citizens of 30 percent of the revenue.
(24:54):
Yeah, right there on page two, section seven, that management company makes manager will pay to the owner.
Green Township manager being the company.
So manager will pay to the owner 30 percent of the gross lease revenues received by the manager from a third party communication tower lease agreements.
(25:16):
And I went through two and a half years of monthly financials.
That was a FOIA request.
We got that not one penny of that 30 percent has ever, ever returned to the taxpayers who live in Green Township.
(25:37):
Now, to me, just from a political, personal level, that's the most egregious behavior imaginable.
Right. What's interesting, though, is from my knowledge, there is no other company on that tower.
So you wouldn't have to pay the 30 percent because there's no other company.
(25:58):
But here's where it gets complicated.
The person who is the manager and is the maintenance provider to the township in this management agreement is also the person that is selling Internet and using space on that tower.
So he's basically getting to rent space on that tower.
(26:21):
He's not renting it because he's not paying.
He's using space on that tower for free because there's no other company.
So he's just using township infrastructure for free and making a good living out of it.
Now, there was another company on there and that used to be Skyweb back in that while it was from when I was up here 2016 to I think 2020.
(26:47):
They left the area. They ran away from the area.
They were another company on there while he was the maintenance and management provider.
He collected all the money that Skyweb, the other company, was paying to rent space on that tower.
He personally or that company personally collected that revenue for renting space on that tower and none of it went back to the township.
(27:12):
That 30 percent did not go back to the township.
It's not a good. I mean, this is like about as bad as having a CD in your bank.
It pays point zero zero zero percent.
You know, you get seven cents a quarter.
They don't even get anything. What have they gotten back?
Nothing. And and you're making somebody rich.
(27:35):
It just seems so weird that he's the only other company on the tower and he gets to he's the only company on the tower and he is the maintenance and manager of the township equipment.
And he receives the revenue from his customers.
He gets to keep it. It basically what it appears as though this is a a township provided Internet,
(28:01):
but ran through a private company because it's literally using township equipment.
The largest capital expenses is the towers.
That should really infuriate people. Yeah.
And it does actually, as they slowly learn about this, it is complicated.
I know I had to be driven around the township and shown these towers to sort of grasp that concept of what this business was because it was just like an invisible business.
(28:28):
But collecting a lot of money from the taxpayers to do something.
The business has gone by many different names.
It's always the same people, though they've had like three, four, five different names in the last.
They've had a significant 13 years or whatever.
Well, it originally started out as Tucker Communications and then Kevin, Kevin Tucker lost his business to one of these individuals or a group of these individuals.
(28:56):
And then the company became ATIS.
Then that got destroyed because it was poorly managed because they and then they sold ATIS to Skyweb in Saginaw.
And while in Saginaw, that company bought the ATIS, a certain individuals went behind their back and created this ISI and maintenance and management agreement,
(29:21):
basically trying to control what ATIS was doing because the management agreement was created right before they sold the Skyweb company.
It was basically this one person is doing something in the left hand and the right hand is going behind and trying to set up these this this kingdom.
So he's always in control of the tower.
And the thought that strikes me is, I mean, there are people, there are companies, there are takeovers, but yet the people in Green Township should be looking to their board to oversee all of this,
(29:56):
to make sure that all of their investment is being carefully followed, carefully guided.
We're getting a hundred cents per dollar of value for everything they do. So some of these details are exciting to us.
But who's watching? Who's watching the henhouse?
Yeah, no, that's exactly the situation.
(30:18):
The fox is in the henhouse, controls the henhouse, and he takes all the eggs.
That's essentially what it is.
And the other fox from the township, they're kind of like they've got an egg collecting business going on.
It's either that or there's a rooster.
They're the rooster and we're the chickens laying the eggs.
(30:42):
The fox has taken them and the rooster is just doing nothing.
Not only do they have this maintenance and management agreement for managing the tower,
they also have this commercial lease agreement for renting the basement or a room in the basement of the township hall.
(31:04):
What does that cost them?
Well, based on the agreement, it's free. It's a barter agreement.
A barter agreement with a government entity is not allowed, at least nowhere that I've found.
I've talked to a few lawyers about this over the last six years, and all of them have said that doesn't make any sense.
I mean, can I go to Big Rapid City and ask to rent out? Do they even have a basement?
(31:27):
Anyway, let's pretend they had a basement.
Do you think that Mark Gifford or Fred Gunther would allow me to rent out a room just to use it?
Not for free.
Right. Well, I don't think he would allow it at all.
You can't have a private...
Oh, that's permanently.
I don't think that I can rent space to run my business out of government facilities.
(31:51):
I'm sure there are a lot of red tape that you'd have to go through if it was even proper.
So it's not something that...it's not just a token that you can give away for free.
Yeah.
So what do they have to...
So this is what the commercial lease agreement...right on page one under section three, rent in consideration.
(32:19):
In lieu of monthly rental payments, tenant shall provide to the landlord, Green Charter Township,
A, a Wi-Fi hotspot with filters open to the public.
And that's like a one-time investment.
Yep. That's just the router.
And then a five up or five down, one up megabyte of bandwidth to the township.
(32:45):
So basically...that's gibberish. That's shit.
But in today's world, that's terrible.
What would that cost you if you had to buy it from Spectrum or something?
They don't even sell that plan anymore.
Okay. It's so small.
Yes. This is...I would say that's even small for that year that was in 2015 that they created this.
And then C, firewall software, when and if needed for security and does not include firewall hardware if needed.
(33:14):
So almost nothing is given.
And the security is in question.
And this barter agreement violates all kinds of IRS regulations.
It doesn't mean that you don't have to pay any taxes.
No, you still have to fill out all the forms.
And the township has to provide a 1099B to the Internet company so that they can file it with their taxes.
(33:44):
The township has never done that.
So there's, you know, the taxes on that quarter of a million dollars has never had to have been paid.
So this...
We've got to find out, we've got to fly in and find out if the treasurer of the township has ever released or scheduled a tax invoice to that company.
(34:07):
Well, this summer...
For the barter agreement.
This summer, the township supervisor, I believe it was in the July meeting, made a preemptive statement that says we have a barter agreement.
And the purpose for that is so that nobody has to pay any income tax.
That was a statement.
(34:27):
It's on video.
And in 2000, in January of 2000, the IRS...
People used this barter agreement maybe 30 or 40 years ago as a way of sort of trying to get away from paying federal taxes.
But you can't.
And they verified that again in January of 2000.
I looked this boring stuff up.
(34:49):
That you still have to give the other company, you and I could have a barter agreement to shovel my driveway.
But I have to give you paperwork that you show on your taxes and this quarter of a million dollars.
No, we don't do that because we don't want to have to pay any taxes.
The more and more we've dug into this, the more and more we've learned.
(35:12):
And that's one of the reason I believe that the Township Board fought so hard to keep their seats because not only were they protecting the...
Goshen thing.
The invite to Goshen.
I think they were trying to...
All of this onion here that we keep peeling the skin off, they were protecting that.
(35:37):
And we even saw at the board meeting, one of the holdovers got very, very antsy and very uptight.
The board started talking about a forensic audit because forensic audit will locate a lot of this information.
Yes.
And that's another reason why I think they fought so hard, especially the supervisor, to keep this from coming to light.
(36:01):
Yeah, I mean, I was questioning the supervisor on this whole thing six years ago.
He saw nothing wrong with the commercial lease agreement.
He saw nothing wrong with the management agreement.
And he thought it was all fine.
He thought it was all good and dandy.
And he's like, well, we're providing internet to the township people.
You are. Green Township is doing that?
(36:22):
Sounds great.
And I think at any time you have agreements like that, that's just on a handshake.
Where are all these profits or whatever recorded?
Nowhere.
Nowhere.
So I'm sure there's some profit sharing somewhere.
That's just my personal opinion.
(36:44):
This we call collaborating evidence.
They are not going to stop.
They're not going to stop.
They're not going to stop until they uncover every lie, every deception, every legal, every web, every immoral action.
(37:19):
They are not going to stop.
They're not going to stop.
Sir, if you are disorderly, the door is that way.
I explained that last month.
There's the door.
What does he want to talk about trust?
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Long Report.
(00:02):
I'm your host, Chris Long, and today we're diving deep into the intriguing world of local politics and personal journeys.
In this episode, we have an exclusive interview with the fascinating figure, Mr. Orman Hook.
From his unique name to a childhood in Maine, Orman's story is as compelling as it is unconventional.
He takes us through his journey from a humble two-room schoolhouse to becoming the principal of Crossroads Academy,
(00:25):
and then into the waters of Michigan's political scene.
But that's not all, so buckle up for part one, filled with intriguing tales, eye-opening revelations,
and a deep dive into complexities of the local affairs that have gone unnoticed.
So here we go!
I'm setting my own clock.
Communist Party of China.
Red flags are everywhere.
We will be held accountable.
We're not Chinese owned.
(00:46):
They are not going to stop. They're not going to stop.
Oh, this is not a dumb deal.
If the door is that way.
Thank the board for bringing us together.
And now the act you've all been waiting for.
Professional picketers.
And if you don't like it, there's the door.
(01:08):
So today I have Mr. Orman Hook.
Some call him Mr. Dark Money.
The Dark Money Man.
Obviously the Dark Money thing's a joke.
Okay, the opposition needs something to talk about, so we'll give them that.
Whatever.
Anyway, there's no dark money.
So Ormand, first off, where does the name Ormand come from?
(01:31):
I'm the only Ormand Hook in America.
Really?
If you go on the Google search, I'm the only person that comes up,
so it made it easy when I was running for state representative to find me.
But my mom had a cousin, and when my cousin was about 12 years old, he was in an accident.
He was carrying a ladder.
(01:53):
He was between the rungs, and the person in the back tripped and jammed that ladder rung into his kidney area,
and he had a kidney infection, and eventually he died.
Oh my gosh.
So my mom was going to name me Richard, and this was 1947, just the beginning of the baby boom.
She was in the hospital.
(02:13):
There were 12 boys born at that time.
Seven of them were named Richard.
So my mom said, we're going to switch.
So she picked the name of her cousin.
Where are you originally from?
Are you from the Big Rapids area?
No, I'm originally from Maine.
I was born in the center of Maine.
Way up there. Why would you go up there?
Well, that's where we came from.
Stephen King, right?
Yep. And my dad cut pulpwood.
(02:36):
He was a sharecropper.
We lived in a shack, went to a two-room schoolhouse, did that until I was nine years old.
And then my dad got hurt cutting wood.
He didn't have like an injury.
He didn't have a tree fall on him, but I think his back just wore out.
And so he couldn't move for several months.
And when he was able to get around, then he found a job in New York, about 90 miles north of New York City.
(03:03):
And he moved away.
And this was like right after Christmas.
Then he came back at Easter break and visited us.
And then he came back again at the beginning of June and we moved to New York State.
So I entered civilization, went to a big school, more than two rooms.
Kind of broke that Appalachian lifestyle.
(03:24):
Yeah.
At least.
Well, so how did you end up in Big Rapids though?
At what point? When did you move here?
Well, the Air Force brought me here in 1971.
To Michigan?
Yep. And they stationed me up at Kinshaw Air Force Base in the UP.
Drove across the bridge late September, dark, dreary, drizzly day, all cloudy, driving north.
(03:48):
And all I see is this swamp land with trees that, you know, not maple trees, old trees, just scrubbed trees.
And at any moment I expected a moose or a bear to be in the road.
I was a little bit freaked out.
Yeah.
So then I went to St. Marie and Kinshaw Air Force Base was right near there.
(04:09):
So correct me if I'm wrong, but a long time ago you were the principal of Crossroads Academy here in Big Rapids.
Yes, I was the first principal of Crossroads Academy.
That was the fall of 1998.
We started, they hired me June 1st and by September we had almost 400 students.
(04:30):
So you were the first principal?
I was the first principal.
Oh wow.
We built a boat and sailed it all at the same time.
Terry, your wife, also worked at Crossroads.
Yeah, she was the secretary.
And so you met your wife there.
Yeah, I met my wife there.
But the Air Force brought me here and I was in the central Michigan area.
And one of my assignments back in the 70s was Macosta Osceola,
(04:55):
entered me at school district as a school psychologist.
I left, became a school administrator for about 18 years in different places and then came back to this area at that time.
So I've been here continuously since 1998.
When did you get first involved with politics?
Well, I remember in third grade, General Eisenhower was running for president.
(05:16):
The only thing I remember was somebody had a button that said, I like Ike.
That was his campaign slogan.
But I always was interested in history, always interested in geography and places.
I remember that very distinctly, the Kennedy-Nixon debates in 1960.
Watched those first televised presidential campaign debate ever.
(05:41):
But I've always been interested.
I've always been interested in world affairs and national affairs over even local affairs.
I remember listening to Barry Goldwater give his acceptance speech at the 1964 nominating convention in Arizona
and driving in the car with my family listening, had my family turn the radio on and listen to that.
(06:04):
But I've just always been interested because it's about ideas.
It's kind of like a war of ideas.
And that just has always fascinated me.
So a few years ago, you ran.
I ran for the Michigan House of Representatives for the same position that Tom Koontz now has.
I thought you ran against Hoeninga.
I ran against Michelle Hoeninga, but they've changed the districts.
(06:27):
But I just use Tom Koontz as a reference because people may be more familiar with his name right now.
I worked very, very hard. It was tough. I lost.
Yeah. And when was that?
That was 2016.
I'm glad I lost. I feel bad that I may have let people down in the sense that I didn't win.
(06:48):
What is the biggest thing that you've learned from that experience?
Well, I learned about campaigning and everything we did this summer with getting those petitions signed,
going door to door, collecting information, learning how to do mailers, helping the candidates,
help them with where they would go, mapping out their campaign.
(07:11):
So what I learned then, I'm applying now.
And, you know, this is where we started with Big Rapids Township and Green Township,
and then we're on to the next level.
What is the next level?
Well, for me, the next level is the county commissioners, because I feel our county should be like a fortress.
It should be a stronghold.
(07:32):
The commissioners and other elected folks should be like on guard duty protecting us.
And they've let us down.
Definitely.
They have not paid attention to all the lies that they were told. They've not done...
And then when we told them the truth, did they listen?
They don't even want to listen.
(07:53):
I, you know, as a psychologist for like 50 years...
Oh, yeah, we didn't even touch on that.
You know, I should have some insight into human behavior,
but I have no idea why people's eyes are just completely glazed over and their ears are plugged
when you can show them the exact proof by documents from Goshen, Goshen, Inc., any other place,
(08:19):
their stockholders meeting, their annual report.
We don't want to know anything.
Yeah, they don't care.
And I cannot even comprehend that.
Yeah, there's some commissioners that will even say that they don't even care what company it is
as long as they bring jobs, but they're for it.
A lot of problems with that statement in the sense that, well, there aren't going to be 2,300 jobs.
(08:42):
A lot of it's going to turn into robotics.
They keep downsizing the workforce.
They downsize the size of the operation, the size of their buildings.
Who even knows what they're going to make?
They've changed that a couple of times.
Yeah, no, it started out being cathodes and anodes,
or I actually think it was originally the full battery, and then it turned into cathodes and anodes,
(09:04):
and then now it's only one of those two.
I don't remember which one, but one of them needs less water,
and that's why Fred Gunther is a little ticked, I've heard,
that they only want 20,000 instead of almost a million.
That big, rapid city would be selling them.
But the jobs, there are jobs vacant all over the place.
(09:26):
There's jobs vacant all over the state, all over the country,
and I really struggled for a while trying to figure out why that was until I learned that,
well, for about every three senior citizens, people my age, as they retire,
there's only like one person coming along to replace them in the workforce.
There aren't workers.
Yeah, and my generation don't want to work in a manufacturing plant.
(09:50):
It's your guys' generation. Well, younger than you, but yeah, it's the older generation.
So we have empty jobs, jobs that are paid just as much as Goshen supposedly is going to pay,
and that target keeps changing.
People travel out of the county to work. People travel here to work.
I think most of the fairest professors actually drive in, at least that's what I've heard.
(10:15):
A lot of them live like down in Rockford.
They live in a community that more fits their temperament or their cultural background,
and they drive up here to where the peasants live and teach.
And I am the chief peasant, okay?
I lived on a back road, a mountain road, the last house, the last farmhouse,
(10:38):
which a few years after we moved away just collapsed on itself.
Oh my gosh.
That's how much of a shack we lived in.
So I'm the chief of the peasants, the chief of the rednecks.
Are you a professional protester like Jerrolyn Strong says you are?
I haven't received any checks. I am from here.
(10:59):
I must be good at it if they're calling me a pro.
Are you Antifa?
No.
The attacks against the people who are just trying to live here and protect themselves are really foolish.
And so far from the truth, I'm not even sure they believe the things they say,
but they think that, well, maybe this is going to get some traction.
(11:22):
Do you think that they're being told basically what to say?
Do you really think that these commissioners truly believe what they're saying,
or are they just trying to fit the narrative that they're told?
I remember them saying at the Senate meeting that the whole county is for this,
or they haven't talked to a single person that isn't for this, and everybody wants it.
(11:43):
Who's telling them this?
I believe that...
Is that an echo chamber situation?
I believe that at their level it is an echo chamber.
I do not believe Jerrolyn Strong, the chair of the county commission, even wrote her speech.
I'm pretty confident that that was written for her.
And maybe in her office room that she has, in her commissioner room,
(12:05):
everybody's singing and dancing and excited that all of this is going to happen.
But in real people, real people aren't for this.
We intuitively know that communism is bad.
We intuitively know that America's enemy...
It defeats why we moved up here.
A lot of us who didn't come from the area.
Why would... you know, we want to get away from...
(12:27):
Everybody's retiring and moving up here.
There's so many people...
This is where you retire and vacation.
Yes, yes.
And again, it goes back...
Earlier we talked about how sort of dense that the information isn't getting into them.
Well, they're not thinking, they're not reasoning, they're not researching anything.
There's a reason Doubting Thomas was doubting.
(12:48):
Okay, he said, show me the proof.
Well, you know, where's the beef?
They just can't even ask that question.
Which again, as a psychologist, I'm not even sure where that sense of denseness even comes from.
So on December 12th, 2023, there was a township meeting.
(13:09):
The room was full as usual.
You were there, I was there.
So what was your perspective?
And let's first talk about the first part of the meeting.
What was your perspective?
One of the very distinctive differences in Green and the Big Rapids Township,
with the new leadership, the tension is gone.
(13:31):
The people at the board, sitting at the tables leading, have conversation.
They deal with the public.
My sense of the meeting was...
The tone is completely different.
The tone is so different.
Just to be a slightly critical, I thought, like, I'm kind of antsy.
I want things to move.
Action, action, action, action, action.
(13:53):
But many things were covered.
And again, mundane things, until they got to the exciting parts.
Did you see that Chuck Thelen was actually at the township meeting?
He wasn't even at a meeting since May, was he?
Correct, correct.
He hasn't been here.
He hasn't been the most friendly place to show up.
And probably for health reasons, he decided not to.
(14:16):
What was he wearing?
Well, he had camo on.
Did he have a baseball cap on?
I think he had a baseball cap on.
And some camo.
When he gave his big speech back in May, he was trying to tell everybody
what a great boy scout he was, how he had hunting property, and he did this.
And just a good old boy trying to...
(14:37):
Trying to fit in.
Trying to fit in and make it look like he's not bringing in a foreign business into our community.
I actually have that clip of him saying that he's basically one of us.
Here's that clip.
I call myself the redneck behind the charity desk.
Because yes, I have a title.
Yes, I have a big job.
But on the weekends, I'm riding my tractor, just like a number of you folks.
(15:00):
Well, the important thing is you don't even have to say that.
We can just look at each other and kind of know how we fit in and such.
It was just awkward, but it was good they didn't say anything.
I know some folks were ready to speak if anything had been said.
And I don't think he...
Do you think he should have spoke?
(15:21):
No, I don't think that would have been gasoline on a fire.
Probably.
So towards the end of the meeting, there was some spiciness that happened with the internet company
or the internet provider to the township and the IT services.
So just so that we can give some background to our listeners who don't really know the full information,
(15:44):
Green Township works with this company, provides them internet and IT services,
and also sells internet to the township and has all their equipment on the towers,
and also is renting space from the basement of the township hall.
And so what happened last night?
(16:07):
Well, the board took two actions.
The first one is that they severed the business relationship with the IT provider.
They're supposed to help with the copy machines, the printers, the computers, the email, the phone service.
Whenever they break or don't work properly, they are supposed to fix them.
(16:30):
They're supposed to be providing some security firewalls for cyber attacks or whatever.
They severed that agreement.
The second action that took place was the township building itself now is going to have its own secure internet connection
(16:51):
and doesn't have to come through the mystery business so that the township,
the new township board is trying to set up safety and security for its operations.
We're not really sure about the safety and security prior to this point.
We know that there's been some fiddling with actions that have been business actions,
(17:15):
computer actions, email actions in the last month.
So they're trying to sever that, get it all clean,
so that the people can rest assured that they're going to get safe and secure business procedures.
Yesterday was actually six years to the day to the first township hall meeting that I ever went to when I first moved up here.
(17:39):
And what I observed at that first meeting, it was about this IT evaluation, this company presenting to the board.
They were talking about, oh, well, we basically kind of need to get a foothold, a baseline of where we are.
Because six years ago, this was right after Bob Baldwin died, the previous supervisor.
(18:02):
And Chapman had just gotten in the supervisor role as the replacement because the term, the election term wasn't up yet.
So six years ago, they were looking into IT in general of buying these new things and evaluating where they got.
And then now, six years later, we're basically doing the reset and getting rid of the company that I saw.
(18:30):
And I even mentioned it at the meeting.
I said, what are you talking about an IT evaluation for $1,200 or something like that?
It was like some absurd amount.
And Ross Meads was right there. He also said it, too.
We wanted to see what was on this quote.
It was an IT quote. And Jim would not tell us, would not show us.
He said, oh, you have to FOIA that. Why do I have to FOIA it?
(18:53):
It's everybody on the board's looking at it right now.
Why do I have to FOIA something you're discussing and voting on giving $1,200, $1,300, $1,400?
I don't remember exactly what it was.
But the point is, is what I heard from that company gave me red flags.
Red flags are everywhere.
Red flags were everywhere based on what that company was saying.
(19:16):
I could tell that they were they didn't know what they were saying.
Or what really I could tell was that company was taking advantage of the board, their knowledge of technology or lack of knowledge of technology.
And that company was more or less using buzzwords or words that make them sound trustworthy and know that they know what they're talking about.
(19:42):
And it didn't fool me. And it didn't fool Ross Meads.
And the reason it didn't fool you guys, because I know you and I know Ross Meads, you have a supreme background in technology.
But the board members who pride themselves and being in office for decades and I'm I'm older.
OK, I'm 76 years old. You can you can fool me on all this new technology.
(20:08):
So if you're talking to a group of board members who are senior citizens, they're not up on all this new language.
It's no wonder they were able to just come in and fool with fancy words.
Oh, yeah. Like, you know, I do kind of know what a flux capacitor is.
But the rest of this, I really am not into. Yeah. Yeah. And they and they trusted them.
(20:30):
And I can't tell based on the history of everything that's gone on again.
We'll talk about that in a later episode. But essentially some things occurred during 2015 and it made the board think of that company as the hero.
And so since then, he's basically got everything regarding anything technology, whether it's cameras or servers or firewall, this or updating the computer or and doing those over and over.
(20:59):
Over every month, there's something going out to him. OK, I don't know how much money would you say that the old board were handing out to that company every month?
I know in the last two and a half years, we foiled all of their financial statements.
There was over two hundred and twenty thousand dollars.
(21:21):
That's by one figure, depending on how many invoices you put in there, up to like two hundred and forty eight thousand dollars given to this company over two and one half years.
That's taxpayer money. Yeah. That's the residents paying their taxes.
Give it being given to this private company to do whatever their magic is.
That was just given away. And I looked into this company and and I talked to some people.
(21:47):
I actually talked to some of their customers. And the thing that I found is on Michigan, Laura, the the spell that L.A.R.A.
that it's the corporation search for the state of Michigan, any any company we want to look into, you can just search that company. It will give you their their reporting for the year of who's the directors, where they're located, things like that.
(22:10):
And what I noticed was that the location that is for L.A.R.A. does not match what is on the invoices that that company is telling their customers to send the checks to or just in general, the invoices for the their service.
(22:31):
It was actually appalling what that address is.
A federally subsidized housing that has lots of restrictions and requirements for who is eligible to live there.
A friend of mine is actually researching that right now.
And he's real sure that you cannot run a business out of a federally subsidized home.
(22:56):
Yes. And he's working on that, getting some background information from the main office like down in Grand Rapids.
Yeah, it's smoke and mirrors more like Goshen smoke and mirrors everywhere to be a common pattern that these things are going on in the in the background.
And a lot of people don't know or can't even believe I've talked to some people.
(23:18):
I talked to people six years ago and they were like, oh, it's not the big deal.
They don't they don't comprehend it.
And now things are coming out and they're seeing, oh, there's definitely something going on.
What's going on type situation.
For me personally, the thing that's I mean, all of this is bad and I know a lot of information that we're going to get into.
(23:39):
This is really bad. But even bigger than this, like I said, in the last two and a half years, over two hundred twenty thousand dollars of taxpayer.
Just the last two years, just the last two and a half years has been paid to this company to provide a service.
Yeah, it's like a supposedly a business investment and according to their contract, their management agreement.
(24:03):
Yeah, I think we have that management agreement.
Yes, we do. And on page two of that, let me just say, let me turn.
There's three towers in the in the area, three or four, three.
Well, there's technically four.
If you count the one on the township behind the hall, one to the north, one to the south, one right there, twenty two mile Boy Scout Camp and then the tower behind the township hall.
(24:28):
But the maintenance and management agreement, let's talk about that.
So it says so we've paid them nearly the people of Green Township has paid them nearly a quarter of a million dollars.
And in the last three years, it will definitely be up there to a quarter of a million.
That investment is supposed to have a return to the citizens of 30 percent of the revenue.
(24:54):
Yeah, right there on page two, section seven, that management company makes manager will pay to the owner.
Green Township manager being the company.
So manager will pay to the owner 30 percent of the gross lease revenues received by the manager from a third party communication tower lease agreements.
(25:16):
And I went through two and a half years of monthly financials.
That was a FOIA request.
We got that not one penny of that 30 percent has ever, ever returned to the taxpayers who live in Green Township.
(25:37):
Now, to me, just from a political, personal level, that's the most egregious behavior imaginable.
Right. What's interesting, though, is from my knowledge, there is no other company on that tower.
So you wouldn't have to pay the 30 percent because there's no other company.
(25:58):
But here's where it gets complicated.
The person who is the manager and is the maintenance provider to the township in this management agreement is also the person that is selling Internet and using space on that tower.
So he's basically getting to rent space on that tower.
(26:21):
He's not renting it because he's not paying.
He's using space on that tower for free because there's no other company.
So he's just using township infrastructure for free and making a good living out of it.
Now, there was another company on there and that used to be Skyweb back in that while it was from when I was up here 2016 to I think 2020.
(26:47):
They left the area. They ran away from the area.
They were another company on there while he was the maintenance and management provider.
He collected all the money that Skyweb, the other company, was paying to rent space on that tower.
He personally or that company personally collected that revenue for renting space on that tower and none of it went back to the township.
(27:12):
That 30 percent did not go back to the township.
It's not a good. I mean, this is like about as bad as having a CD in your bank.
It pays point zero zero zero percent.
You know, you get seven cents a quarter.
They don't even get anything. What have they gotten back?
Nothing. And and you're making somebody rich.
(27:35):
It just seems so weird that he's the only other company on the tower and he gets to he's the only company on the tower and he is the maintenance and manager of the township equipment.
And he receives the revenue from his customers.
He gets to keep it. It basically what it appears as though this is a a township provided Internet,
(28:01):
but ran through a private company because it's literally using township equipment.
The largest capital expenses is the towers.
That should really infuriate people. Yeah.
And it does actually, as they slowly learn about this, it is complicated.
I know I had to be driven around the township and shown these towers to sort of grasp that concept of what this business was because it was just like an invisible business.
(28:28):
But collecting a lot of money from the taxpayers to do something.
The business has gone by many different names.
It's always the same people, though they've had like three, four, five different names in the last.
They've had a significant 13 years or whatever.
Well, it originally started out as Tucker Communications and then Kevin, Kevin Tucker lost his business to one of these individuals or a group of these individuals.
(28:56):
And then the company became ATIS.
Then that got destroyed because it was poorly managed because they and then they sold ATIS to Skyweb in Saginaw.
And while in Saginaw, that company bought the ATIS, a certain individuals went behind their back and created this ISI and maintenance and management agreement,
(29:21):
basically trying to control what ATIS was doing because the management agreement was created right before they sold the Skyweb company.
It was basically this one person is doing something in the left hand and the right hand is going behind and trying to set up these this this kingdom.
So he's always in control of the tower.
And the thought that strikes me is, I mean, there are people, there are companies, there are takeovers, but yet the people in Green Township should be looking to their board to oversee all of this,
(29:56):
to make sure that all of their investment is being carefully followed, carefully guided.
We're getting a hundred cents per dollar of value for everything they do. So some of these details are exciting to us.
But who's watching? Who's watching the henhouse?
Yeah, no, that's exactly the situation.
(30:18):
The fox is in the henhouse, controls the henhouse, and he takes all the eggs.
That's essentially what it is.
And the other fox from the township, they're kind of like they've got an egg collecting business going on.
It's either that or there's a rooster.
They're the rooster and we're the chickens laying the eggs.
(30:42):
The fox has taken them and the rooster is just doing nothing.
Not only do they have this maintenance and management agreement for managing the tower,
they also have this commercial lease agreement for renting the basement or a room in the basement of the township hall.
(31:04):
What does that cost them?
Well, based on the agreement, it's free. It's a barter agreement.
A barter agreement with a government entity is not allowed, at least nowhere that I've found.
I've talked to a few lawyers about this over the last six years, and all of them have said that doesn't make any sense.
I mean, can I go to Big Rapid City and ask to rent out? Do they even have a basement?
(31:27):
Anyway, let's pretend they had a basement.
Do you think that Mark Gifford or Fred Gunther would allow me to rent out a room just to use it?
Not for free.
Right. Well, I don't think he would allow it at all.
You can't have a private...
Oh, that's permanently.
I don't think that I can rent space to run my business out of government facilities.
(31:51):
I'm sure there are a lot of red tape that you'd have to go through if it was even proper.
So it's not something that...it's not just a token that you can give away for free.
Yeah.
So what do they have to...
So this is what the commercial lease agreement...right on page one under section three, rent in consideration.
(32:19):
In lieu of monthly rental payments, tenant shall provide to the landlord, Green Charter Township,
A, a Wi-Fi hotspot with filters open to the public.
And that's like a one-time investment.
Yep. That's just the router.
And then a five up or five down, one up megabyte of bandwidth to the township.
(32:45):
So basically...that's gibberish. That's shit.
But in today's world, that's terrible.
What would that cost you if you had to buy it from Spectrum or something?
They don't even sell that plan anymore.
Okay. It's so small.
Yes. This is...I would say that's even small for that year that was in 2015 that they created this.
And then C, firewall software, when and if needed for security and does not include firewall hardware if needed.
(33:14):
So almost nothing is given.
And the security is in question.
And this barter agreement violates all kinds of IRS regulations.
It doesn't mean that you don't have to pay any taxes.
No, you still have to fill out all the forms.
And the township has to provide a 1099B to the Internet company so that they can file it with their taxes.
(33:44):
The township has never done that.
So there's, you know, the taxes on that quarter of a million dollars has never had to have been paid.
So this...
We've got to find out, we've got to fly in and find out if the treasurer of the township has ever released or scheduled a tax invoice to that company.
(34:07):
Well, this summer...
For the barter agreement.
This summer, the township supervisor, I believe it was in the July meeting, made a preemptive statement that says we have a barter agreement.
And the purpose for that is so that nobody has to pay any income tax.
That was a statement.
(34:27):
It's on video.
And in 2000, in January of 2000, the IRS...
People used this barter agreement maybe 30 or 40 years ago as a way of sort of trying to get away from paying federal taxes.
But you can't.
And they verified that again in January of 2000.
I looked this boring stuff up.
(34:49):
That you still have to give the other company, you and I could have a barter agreement to shovel my driveway.
But I have to give you paperwork that you show on your taxes and this quarter of a million dollars.
No, we don't do that because we don't want to have to pay any taxes.
The more and more we've dug into this, the more and more we've learned.
(35:12):
And that's one of the reason I believe that the Township Board fought so hard to keep their seats because not only were they protecting the...
Goshen thing.
The invite to Goshen.
I think they were trying to...
All of this onion here that we keep peeling the skin off, they were protecting that.
(35:37):
And we even saw at the board meeting, one of the holdovers got very, very antsy and very uptight.
The board started talking about a forensic audit because forensic audit will locate a lot of this information.
Yes.
And that's another reason why I think they fought so hard, especially the supervisor, to keep this from coming to light.
(36:01):
Yeah, I mean, I was questioning the supervisor on this whole thing six years ago.
He saw nothing wrong with the commercial lease agreement.
He saw nothing wrong with the management agreement.
And he thought it was all fine.
He thought it was all good and dandy.
And he's like, well, we're providing internet to the township people.
You are. Green Township is doing that?
(36:22):
Sounds great.
And I think at any time you have agreements like that, that's just on a handshake.
Where are all these profits or whatever recorded?
Nowhere.
Nowhere.
So I'm sure there's some profit sharing somewhere.
That's just my personal opinion.
(36:44):
This we call collaborating evidence.
They are not going to stop.
They're not going to stop.
They're not going to stop until they uncover every lie, every deception, every legal, every web, every immoral action.
(37:19):
They are not going to stop.
They're not going to stop.
Sir, if you are disorderly, the door is that way.
I explained that last month.
There's the door.
What does he want to talk about trust?
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