Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to the deep
dive.
Today we're taking one of themost well-known supplements out
there, creatine.
And we are uh completelyflipping it on its head.
Yeah.
For decades you hear creatine,you think Jim, you think heavy
lifting, muscles.
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
Performance, purely
physical.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
Exactly.
But today, we are leaving themuscles behind.
We're going straight for thegray matter into the science of
creatine's really surprisingimpact on the brain.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
And this is such a
critical deep dive because the
way you study this is a wholedifferent ballgame.
You know, you can measure abicep.
SPEAKER_01 (00:33):
Right.
You can see it grow.
SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
You could see it
grow in what, 12 weeks.
It's objective.
But how do you objectivelymeasure a subtle lift in
cognitive performance?
It's so much more complex.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Absolutely.
So our mission today is to giveyou a shortcut through all that
complexity.
We're going to unpack whycreatine isn't just muscle fuel.
It's this crucial energy bufferfor your brain, especially when
it's under stress.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
And to even begin to
understand that, we have to
start with the most basicproblem, which is the dose.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Okay, let's unpack
that.
So historically, researcherstrying to find a brain benefit.
They mostly came up empty.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
They were using that
standard dose, five grams a day,
and just concluding, well, Iguess it doesn't do much for the
brain.
So what was the disconnect?
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
Well, that five gram
dose was always about muscle.
It was for physical stores.
And let's get this out of theway.
Creatine does cross theblood-brain barrier.
That's established.
SPEAKER_01 (01:26):
Okay, so it gets
there.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
It gets there.
The problem wasn't transport, itwas saturation.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
Aaron Powell This is
the greedy muscles idea.
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
Exactly.
Your skeletal muscles are justthey're vast.
They act like massive sponges.
So when you take, say, up tofive grams, the muscles just
soak it all up.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Especially if you're
training.
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Oh, especially then.
They just take their share, andthere's very little left over to
really saturate the brain.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
Aaron Powell So the
big insight for you, listening
to this, is if you're looking atthose older cognition studies
and they're dosed at five grams,they were almost pre-programmed
to fail.
They were measuring an effectthat couldn't possibly happen.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Precisely.
You're measuring asub-therapeutic dose.
The substrate is being divertedto the biggest consumer in the
body.
You're just not going to see acognitive effect because you
haven't hit the threshold neededfor the brain.
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Okay.
So for the brain, we need to aimhigher.
SPEAKER_00 (02:20):
We have to aim
higher to overcome that
competition.
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
And that takes us to
where this gets, for me,
intensely interesting.
Creatine doesn't seem to beabout making a healthy, rested
brain better.
It's more like a stabilizer, anemergency generator for when the
system is under stress.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
That is the key.
The brain needs it most when theenergy grid is faltering.
And we need to be reallyspecific about stress here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
Right.
It's not just feeling anxious.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
No, not just
psychological stress like an
exam or, you know, maritalproblems, though it does help
there.
We're talking aboutphysiological stress.
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
Okay, so what are we
talking about then?
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Sleep deprivation is
number one.
It just crushes cognitivefunction.
Then you have things thatcompromise the brain itself,
like a TBI, hypoxia, or aneurodegenerative disease.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
Aaron Powell And
what about just learning?
Like diving into deep researchfor this show.
That feels like a workout.
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
It is.
That cognitive, load-intenselearning, long hours of focus,
that is absolutely a form ofmetabolic stress on the brain.
SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
This all boils down
to energy, and this is the aha
moment.
The sheer demand the brain has.
Can you just remind us of thestat?
SPEAKER_00 (03:26):
It's just it's
insane.
The brain is less than 2% ofyour body weight.
SPEAKER_01 (03:29):
Tiny.
SPEAKER_00 (03:30):
But it consumes a
staggering 20% of your total
daily calories, and that's atrest.
When you're thinking hard, itspikes even higher.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Okay, so if the
brain is burning fuel that fast,
how does creatine even help?
I mean, it's not a caloriesource.
SPEAKER_00 (03:42):
No, and this gets to
the core mechanism, the creatine
kinase system.
Think of creatine as a rapidenergy buffer.
Our main energy currency is ATPadenosine triphosphate.
SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:54):
When a neuron fires,
it breaks an ATP down to ADP to
release energy.
SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
And then it has to
get that ATP back fast to fire
again.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Immediately.
And that recycling process iswhere creatine comes in.
It exists in the cell asphosphocreatine or PCR.
Right.
The creatine kinase enzyme grabsphosphate off of that PCR and
slaps it right back onto theused up ADP.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Instantly
regenerating ATP.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
The fastest system
we have for it.
It's like having pre-stagedammunition right where you need
it.
So when the brain is struggling,say you're sleep deprived,
supplemental creatine ensuresthat recycling system is running
at max speed.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
It reduces the
downtime.
The neuron isn't waiting aroundfor energy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
Exactly.
And that's why we see theseimprovements in things like
processing speed.
SPEAKER_01 (04:37):
That makes so much
sense.
Okay, let's pivot to measurementthen.
How do researchers actuallyquantify that improved speed in
a lab?
SPEAKER_00 (04:45):
Aaron Powell They
use a whole battery of cognitive
tests.
They're usually focused onthings like executive function,
processing speed, and workingmemory.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Aaron Powell Can you
give us an example?
What's a classic test they'duse?
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
Aaron Powell A
classic is the stoop task.
That's where you're shown theword R A D, for instance, but
the word itself is printed inblue ink.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
Oh right.
And you have to say the color ofthe ink, not read the word.
SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
Yes.
You have to suppress thatautomatic reading response.
It creates mental interference.
It's taxing.
SPEAKER_01 (05:11):
And people on
creatine do better.
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
Especially when
they're stressed or sleep
deprived, yes.
They show faster reaction times,they make fewer errors.
It suggests the brain can handlethat interference more
efficiently.
SPEAKER_01 (05:23):
Aaron Powell Which
leads right into the real world
applications.
Yeah.
Let's start with aging.
You could see aging as a kind ofchronic, low-grade energy
stress, right?
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
That's a perfect way
to frame it.
It's a gradual energy crisis.
Our own creatine stores and theefficiency of that whole system
can decline as we get older.
SPEAKER_01 (05:40):
So it's no surprise
that older adults get a real
measurable benefit from it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:45):
Exactly.
They're already experiencingsome of that metabolic stress,
so the supplement has a morenoticeable effect.
SPEAKER_01 (05:50):
And we also saw some
really compelling pilot data on
Alzheimer's disease.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
Yes, the early work
is very promising.
They were using a high dose, uh,up to 20 grams a day in 80
patients.
SPEAKER_01 (06:02):
20 grams.
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
Wow.
A lot.
And they saw improved cognitivefunction.
And of course, when they addedexercise, they saw the known
benefits more strength, morelean mass, which is huge for
quality of life.
SPEAKER_01 (06:14):
That's incredible
for treatment.
But the bigger question, themore exciting one, is
prevention.
SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
This is the ultimate
question and the hardest one to
study.
If metabolic failure contributesto these diseases, can we change
that trajectory by starting 10,20 years earlier?
SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
Can you prevent the
energy crisis before it even
begins?
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
That's the hope.
But it means you need studiesthat run for decades.
They're just immensely difficultto do.
Still, the implication isprofound.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
So, what does all
this mean for us right now?
The data is pretty clear that weneed more than five grams to get
to the brain.
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
Right.
To overcome that muscle sink,the emerging consensus is that
10 grams a day is probably thenew baseline.
SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
Wait, okay.
10 grams, we have to address theelephant in the room.
For years, people worried aboutfive grams in kidney health.
Doubling that is going to raisesome flags.
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
It's a legitimate
concern, but it's really rooted
in old, outdated fears.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
So science has moved
on.
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Massively.
Modern large-scale studies haveconsistently shown that for
healthy individuals, and that'sthe key, no pre-existing kidney
problems, 10 grams a day issafe.
The old warnings were neverbased on solid causality.
SPEAKER_01 (07:21):
That is a vital
clarification.
No.
Okay, so assuming it's safe,what about just comfort?
10 grams in one go sounds like arecipe for GI issues.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
Oh, for most people
it would be.
10, 20 grams in one sitting,you're probably gonna have a bad
time.
Bloating, discomfort.
SPEAKER_01 (07:38):
So what's the
practical solution?
SPEAKER_00 (07:40):
You split the dose.
That's key.
Take it in five gram increments.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
So five in the
morning, five in the afternoon.
SPEAKER_00 (07:45):
Exactly.
Five grams with some water ortea in the morning, and then
another five grams a littlelater.
The goal is consistentsaturation, not one giant spike.
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
And there was also
some discussion about timing it,
right?
Taking it before noon.
Is there a real reason for that?
SPEAKER_00 (08:00):
Aaron Powell There
seems to be a physiological one.
Your brain's energy demands arehighest during your peak working
hours.
So if you take it early, you'refront-loading those energy
reserves for when you need themost.
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
To fight off that
afternoon slump.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
You're helping your
brain fight off that energy
triage that happensmid-afternoon.
It just makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
Aaron Powell And
what about for moments of really
acute stress, like brutal jetlag after a long trip?
Aaron Powell Right.
SPEAKER_00 (08:25):
A metabolic shock to
the system.
That's where you might use atemporary high dose, maybe 15 to
20 grams a day, but split intothree or four doses just for a
few days.
SPEAKER_01 (08:35):
To rapidly
resaturate the brain and clear
the fog.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
Aaron Powell
Exactly.
And then you drop back down toyour 10 gram maintenance dose.
SPEAKER_01 (08:41):
Aaron Powell This
really feels like a paradigm
shift.
We're moving creatine from thesports aisle to the brain health
aisle.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
I completely agree.
And I predict that 10 grams isgoing to become the new
scientifically informedbaseline.
We're moving past the five gramestimate that was always just
about muscle.
SPEAKER_01 (08:59):
So to synthesize
this for everyone listening, the
key insight is that creatine isso much more than a muscle
builder.
It's a brain stabilizer.
It works as a rapid energybuffer, letting your brain
recycle its fuel ATP moreefficiently.
SPEAKER_00 (09:11):
Whether you're
tired, stressed, learning, or
just getting older.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
It's the ultimate
energy resilience molecule for
the mind.
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
I like that, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
And that leads us to
our final provocative thought
for you to consider.
We have the data showing ithelps when the brain is already
under stress.
But what if your life is a formof chronic cognitive stress?
Constantly learning, working athigh capacity.
SPEAKER_00 (09:32):
If that's the case,
then maybe creatine at that
higher 10 gram dose isn't justan emergency supplement.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
Maybe it's essential
fuel for the modern, high
performing mind.
SPEAKER_00 (09:41):
So take a moment and
think about your own cognitive
workload and ask yourself ifyour energy reserves are truly
optimized to match yourambition.
SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
Thanks for diving
deep with us.