December 7, 2025 • 11 mins
We test the bold claim that exercise is the most powerful longevity drug, showing how elite cardio fitness and high functional strength cut all-cause mortality by five-fold and three-fold. We give a clear weekly plan, at-home tests, and decade-younger targets that anyone can start.
• VO2 max as the strongest predictor of mortality risk reduction
• Why moving from sedentary to average fitness yields outsized benefits
• Strength performance vs muscle mass as the real longevity lever
• Simple tests: dead hang, grip strength, sit-to-stand, air squats
• Weekly plan: three hours Zone 2 plus one 4x4 VO2 session
• Strength training patterns for resilience and fall prevention
• Decade-younger targets to drive training focus and motivation
• Highest-yield starting point: improve grip and dead hang first
This podcast is created by Ai for educational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute professional medical or health advice. Please talk to your healthcare team for medical advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Deep Dive.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Aaron Powell Great to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Aaron Ross Powell You know, for years we've looked
at everything supplements,diets, sleep hacks, you name it.
SPEAKER_00 (00:07):
All in the name of optimization.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Aaron Ross Powell Right.
All for optimization.
But today we're diving deep intosome research that makes this,
well, an incredibly bold claim.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
Aaron Powell I'd say almost unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Aaron Powell The claim is that exercise isn't
just a piece of the longevitypuzzle, it's the single most
important longevity drug wehave: bar none.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
And that is the uh crystal clear conclusion from
this set of data.
When you really dig into thehard statistics on mortality
risk reduction.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
So the actual probability of dying from any
cause.
SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
Aaron Ross Powell Exactly.
A well-designed exercise programis mathematically the most
powerful thing you can do.
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
Aaron Powell And the numbers are what just they stop
you in your tracks.
So our mission today, I think,is to really synthesize the data
that proves this.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
Aaron Powell Right.
And we'll focus on the twopillars that the sources say are
absolutely required.
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Cardiorespiratory fitness and
strength.
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Aaron Ross Powell Functional strength and muscle
resilience, yeah.
And to do that, we have to talkabout the language they use,
which is the hazard ratio.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Aaron Powell Which is basically the probability of
something bad in this case,death happening to one group
versus another.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Precisely.
And with fitness, we are talkingabout protective factors so huge
they drop that ratio lower thanalmost any medical intervention
we have.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
Aaron Powell Okay, let's unpack this.
Let's start with the cardioside, because this is where that
protective effect, that drop inrisk, just becomes, well,
astronomical.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
We're talking about cardiorespiratory fitness.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
Aaron Ross Powell, which is really just a measure
of your VO2 max, right?
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
Yeah, that's how we quantify it.
VO2max is, simply put, themaximum amount of oxygen your
body can use when you're goingall out.
It's like the engine size ofyour body.
SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
Aaron Powell And this is the part of the sources
that I mean it's juststaggering.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
It really is.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
They compare the people with the lowest fitness
levels to what they call theelite group.
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
Aaron Powell Which is defined as the top two and a
half percent of the populationfor your age and sex.
SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
Aaron Powell And the finding is a what a five-fold
reduction in all-causemortality.
SPEAKER_00 (02:01):
A five-fold reduction.
It's almost unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
Aaron Powell So to put that in context for everyone
listening, what does thatactually mean?
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
Aaron Powell Well, think about major health risks
we all know about, like being aheavy smoker or having
uncontrolled type 2 diabetes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
Those things might double or maybe triple your risk
of dying prematurely.
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Aaron Powell So a hazard ratio of two or three.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
Exactly.
Here with elite fitness, we'renot just lowering one specific
disease risk.
We're dropping the risk of deathfrom anything by a factor of
five.
The hazard ratio plummets to0.2.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Aaron Ross Powell That just seems it almost defies
logic.
How can one lifestyle factor,exercise, have a bigger impact
than something like cancer or aheart attack?
How does that work?
SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
Because it's not treating a symptom.
It's upgrading the entire systemfrom the ground up at a cellular
level.
SPEAKER_01 (02:49):
The cellular level, you mean mitochondria.
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
Yes, exactly.
High VO2 max means your body isincredibly efficient, and your
mitochondria, the power plantsin your cells, are powerful and
numerous.
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
Aaron Powell So they process energy better.
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Aaron Ross Powell They process it cleanly.
That leads to better cellrepair, less inflammation, and
just a more resilient systemagainst basically every chronic
disease.
It's a full biological upgrade.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Aaron Powell That really drives home the argument
for exercise as a drug.
But I'm sure people are hearingthat five times number and
thinking, okay, so I have to bea professional athlete to get
that.
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
And that's the most critical part of this.
And it's fantastic news for,well, for almost everyone.
SPEAKER_01 (03:25):
Aaron Powell There are diminishing returns.
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
Absolutely.
On the cardio side, there's avery clear point of diminishing
returns.
The vast majority of thebenefit, we're talking three of
that five-fold reduction, justcomes from going from the lowest
fitness level.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
From being sedentary.
SPEAKER_00 (03:40):
From being sedentary or not fit at all to just being
average fit.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Wow.
So just getting off the couchand building a consistent
average fitness level gives youa three-fold protective shield
right there.
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
Aaron Powell Precisely.
The goal is elite, yes, but thebiggest win, the real
low-hanging fruit, is justshedding that sedentary status.
SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
Aaron Powell That's a really powerful incentive.
It makes it feel much moreachievable.
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
It does.
The biggest jump happens at thevery beginning.
SPEAKER_01 (04:06):
Okay, that's powerful.
Now let's pivot to the secondpillar here, which is strength
and muscle.
The research is very clear, youcan't just do one.
SPEAKER_00 (04:15):
No, you leave a huge amount of protection on the
table if you do.
If cardio provides that deepcellular durability, strength
provides the structuralresilience.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Which becomes more and more important as we age to
prevent falls and maintainmetabolic health.
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
It becomes paramount.
SPEAKER_01 (04:32):
And here's where it gets really interesting.
Yeah.
Because the sources make a keydistinction.
They say it's not really aboutmuscle mass.
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
Aaron Powell Right.
Muscle mass is just a proxy.
It's easy to measure, you know,you can step on a special scale
or get a scan.
SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
But the real metric, the one that truly correlates
with a longer life, is strengthperformance.
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
Yes.
The actual force you canproduce, your neurological
efficiency.
That's what matters.
SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
And the benefit there.
SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
When you compare high strength to low strength,
it's about a threefold reductionin all-cause mortality.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
So you got this potential 5x from cardio and
another 3x from strength.
SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
And they work together synergistically to
create this incredibly protectedstate.
SPEAKER_01 (05:11):
You know, when people hear strength tests, they
immediately think of like heavypower lifting.
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Right.
A one rep max on a squat or adeadlift.
SPEAKER_01 (05:18):
But the tests used in these giant studies are
surprisingly simple.
They're very functional.
SPEAKER_00 (05:24):
They're incredibly accessible because they relate
directly to what you need to doin everyday life.
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
So what are we talking about here?
Things you can test at home.
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
Absolutely.
We're talking about things likegrip strength, the five-rep
sit-to-stand test, which isbasically just how quickly you
can get up and down from a chairfive times.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Okay, that's a measure of quad strength and
power.
SPEAKER_00 (05:45):
Also, air squat performance, and one of my
favorites, the dead hang.
Just how long can you hang froma bar?
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
So this brings up a really important question.
What about genetics?
Some people are just naturallystronger.
How do the studies account forthat?
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
That's a great question.
And while genetics definitelyset your ultimate potential, the
power of these studies is thatthey track people over many
years.
SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
So it's not just a snapshot.
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
No.
They see that it's theimprovement in your strength, no
matter where you start, thatgives you that protective
benefit, even if you don't startwith amazing genetics.
Training to move from lowstrength to just average
strength is what gets you thatthreefold protection.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
So it's all about your personal trajectory, not
where you were born on thegenetic lottery.
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
That's a perfect way to put it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
Okay, so with cardio, we talked about
diminishing returns.
Does the same thing apply tostrength?
Is there a point where gettingstronger doesn't help as much?
SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
You know, that's what's so interesting.
The current data, as it's beenanalyzed, does not show a clear
point of diminishing returns forstrength yet.
Really?
Yeah.
The studies mostly justcategorize people as high versus
low, and being in that highcategory provides a massive
benefit across the board.
The takeaway for now seems to bekeep getting stronger.
(07:00):
Keep getting as strong as youcan functionally, maximize that
resilience.
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Aaron Powell Okay.
So we have the targets the 5xfrom cardio, the 3x from
strength.
Now for the blueprint.
How do you actually get thereweek to week?
What's the prescription?
SPEAKER_00 (07:13):
Aaron Powell You need two different types of
training stimulus every week.
The foundation, the absolutebase of the pyramid, is zone two
training.
SPEAKER_01 (07:21):
Aaron Powell Okay, let's define zone two in a way
that someone listening canactually use, you know, without
a lab.
SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
The technical definition is the highest output
you can sustain while keepingyour blood lactate under two
millimole.
SPEAKER_01 (07:34):
Which means nothing to most people.
SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
Right.
So practically speaking, it'sthe intensity where you could
hold a conversation in fullsentences, but you definitely
couldn't sing a song.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
So you feel the effort, but you could keep it up
for a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
For hours, yeah.
It's that steady state effortthat really builds your
mitochondrial base.
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
What's the minimum dose we're looking for here?
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
The research points to at least three hours a week
of zone two.
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
Three hours.
SPEAKER_00 (08:00):
And ideally that's broken up into four 45-minute
sessions.
If you're really deconditioned,you could start with maybe
three, 30-minute sessions.
SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
And what's the best way to do it?
I hear a lot about stationarybikes.
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
The bike is great because it's so easy to control
your output.
You can just set the wattage andgo.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
No hills, no wind.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Exactly.
But really, any machine works.
A treadmill, an elliptical, aslong as you can maintain that
consistent effort.
The can I talk but not sing testis your best guide.
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
Okay, so that builds the base.
What about the other end of thespectrum?
The high-intensity stuff toreally push that VO2 Max into
the elite tier.
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
For that, you only need one session a week.
And the protocol we use is thefour by four protocol.
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
The four by four.
Walk us through that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
It's simple, but it's very intense.
It's four minutes at theabsolute highest output you can
possibly sustain for that fourminutes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Your maximum sustainable pace.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Exactly.
Then that's followed by afour-minute recovery period
where you're still moving, butvery slowly.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
And you repeat that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
You repeat that sequence five times.
So it ends up being 20 minutesof really hard work, and the
data shows it's just anincredibly potent way to drive
up your VO2 max.
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
That is a very specific, very actual plan.
I love it.
Okay, final piece.
The motivation.
You mentioned aiming for adecade younger elite standard.
What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
It's an aspirational goal, but a powerful one.
We tell people to train so thatthey can achieve the VO2 max and
strength numbers of an eliteperson who is a full decade
younger than they are.
SPEAKER_01 (09:27):
So if I'm a 55-year-old male, I'm aiming for
the elite numbers of a45-year-old.
SPEAKER_00 (09:32):
That's the goal.
Biologically, it ensures yourtraining well past that point of
diminishing returns to reallycapture that full five-fold
benefit.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
And I imagine psychologically it's pretty
powerful too.
SPEAKER_00 (09:44):
It is.
It reframes the whole goal.
You're not just trying to slowdown aging, you're actively
trying to reverse yourbiological clock against
measurable standards.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
Let's make that tangible for strength.
The sources had some veryspecific numbers for that dead
hang test.
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
They did, and they're great targets.
For a male at age 40, the elitestandard is a two-minute dead
hang.
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
Two minutes.
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
For a female at age 40, it's a minute and a half.
SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
And those numbers go down a bit each decade after 40.
SPEAKER_00 (10:11):
They do.
They're discounted slightly.
But that two-minute hang for a40-year-old isn't arbitrary.
It's a reflection of a level ofgrip and upper body resilience
that is highly predictive ofyour future health.
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
And that's the whole point of this deep dive, right?
It's moving from I shouldprobably exercise more to I need
to hit a two-minute dead hangand the VO2 max of someone 10
years younger.
SPEAKER_00 (10:33):
Exactly.
Measurement is the starting linefor mastery.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
So to wrap this up, true longevity comes down to
these two pillars.
You need that elite cardio forthe five-fold reduction in
mortality.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
Through that deep mitochondrial health.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
And you need high strength for the three-fold
reduction.
SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
For that structural resilience.
And it's the combination of thetwo that makes exercise the most
potent anti-aging tool sciencehas ever found.
So what does this all mean?
If you, the listener, had tostart just one thing today, one
single metric to test and totrain, the data suggests that
focusing on those simplestrength tests gives you the
(11:10):
fastest feedback.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
Faster than tracking VO2 max, which is harder to
measure.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Much harder.
But you can test your dead hangor your grip strength right now.
And just working to improvethose simple bodyweight metrics
will likely capture a huge pieceof that threefold protective
factor.
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
So it's the highest yield thing to start with today.
SPEAKER_00 (11:28):
I think so.
It's easier to track than awattage goal on a bike.
So start with your hands andyour lifespan will likely
follow.
Welcome back to the Deep Dive.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Aaron Powell Great to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Aaron Ross Powell You know, for years we've looked
at everything supplements,diets, sleep hacks, you name it.
SPEAKER_00 (00:07):
All in the name of optimization.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Aaron Ross Powell Right.
All for optimization.
But today we're diving deep intosome research that makes this,
well, an incredibly bold claim.
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
Aaron Powell I'd say almost unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Aaron Powell The claim is that exercise isn't
just a piece of the longevitypuzzle, it's the single most
important longevity drug wehave: bar none.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
And that is the uh crystal clear conclusion from
this set of data.
When you really dig into thehard statistics on mortality
risk reduction.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
So the actual probability of dying from any
cause.
SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
Aaron Ross Powell Exactly.
A well-designed exercise programis mathematically the most
powerful thing you can do.
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
Aaron Powell And the numbers are what just they stop
you in your tracks.
So our mission today, I think,is to really synthesize the data
that proves this.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
Aaron Powell Right.
And we'll focus on the twopillars that the sources say are
absolutely required.
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Cardiorespiratory fitness and
strength.
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Aaron Ross Powell Functional strength and muscle
resilience, yeah.
And to do that, we have to talkabout the language they use,
which is the hazard ratio.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Aaron Powell Which is basically the probability of
something bad in this case,death happening to one group
versus another.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Precisely.
And with fitness, we are talkingabout protective factors so huge
they drop that ratio lower thanalmost any medical intervention
we have.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
Aaron Powell Okay, let's unpack this.
Let's start with the cardioside, because this is where that
protective effect, that drop inrisk, just becomes, well,
astronomical.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
We're talking about cardiorespiratory fitness.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
Aaron Ross Powell, which is really just a measure
of your VO2 max, right?
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
Yeah, that's how we quantify it.
VO2max is, simply put, themaximum amount of oxygen your
body can use when you're goingall out.
It's like the engine size ofyour body.
SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
Aaron Powell And this is the part of the sources
that I mean it's juststaggering.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
It really is.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
They compare the people with the lowest fitness
levels to what they call theelite group.
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
Aaron Powell Which is defined as the top two and a
half percent of the populationfor your age and sex.
SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
Aaron Powell And the finding is a what a five-fold
reduction in all-causemortality.
SPEAKER_00 (02:01):
A five-fold reduction.
It's almost unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
Aaron Powell So to put that in context for everyone
listening, what does thatactually mean?
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
Aaron Powell Well, think about major health risks
we all know about, like being aheavy smoker or having
uncontrolled type 2 diabetes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
Those things might double or maybe triple your risk
of dying prematurely.
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Aaron Powell So a hazard ratio of two or three.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
Exactly.
Here with elite fitness, we'renot just lowering one specific
disease risk.
We're dropping the risk of deathfrom anything by a factor of
five.
The hazard ratio plummets to0.2.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Aaron Ross Powell That just seems it almost defies
logic.
How can one lifestyle factor,exercise, have a bigger impact
than something like cancer or aheart attack?
How does that work?
SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
Because it's not treating a symptom.
It's upgrading the entire systemfrom the ground up at a cellular
level.
SPEAKER_01 (02:49):
The cellular level, you mean mitochondria.
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
Yes, exactly.
High VO2 max means your body isincredibly efficient, and your
mitochondria, the power plantsin your cells, are powerful and
numerous.
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
Aaron Powell So they process energy better.
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Aaron Ross Powell They process it cleanly.
That leads to better cellrepair, less inflammation, and
just a more resilient systemagainst basically every chronic
disease.
It's a full biological upgrade.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Aaron Powell That really drives home the argument
for exercise as a drug.
But I'm sure people are hearingthat five times number and
thinking, okay, so I have to bea professional athlete to get
that.
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
And that's the most critical part of this.
And it's fantastic news for,well, for almost everyone.
SPEAKER_01 (03:25):
Aaron Powell There are diminishing returns.
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
Absolutely.
On the cardio side, there's avery clear point of diminishing
returns.
The vast majority of thebenefit, we're talking three of
that five-fold reduction, justcomes from going from the lowest
fitness level.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
From being sedentary.
SPEAKER_00 (03:40):
From being sedentary or not fit at all to just being
average fit.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Wow.
So just getting off the couchand building a consistent
average fitness level gives youa three-fold protective shield
right there.
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
Aaron Powell Precisely.
The goal is elite, yes, but thebiggest win, the real
low-hanging fruit, is justshedding that sedentary status.
SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
Aaron Powell That's a really powerful incentive.
It makes it feel much moreachievable.
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
It does.
The biggest jump happens at thevery beginning.
SPEAKER_01 (04:06):
Okay, that's powerful.
Now let's pivot to the secondpillar here, which is strength
and muscle.
The research is very clear, youcan't just do one.
SPEAKER_00 (04:15):
No, you leave a huge amount of protection on the
table if you do.
If cardio provides that deepcellular durability, strength
provides the structuralresilience.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Which becomes more and more important as we age to
prevent falls and maintainmetabolic health.
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
It becomes paramount.
SPEAKER_01 (04:32):
And here's where it gets really interesting.
Yeah.
Because the sources make a keydistinction.
They say it's not really aboutmuscle mass.
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
Aaron Powell Right.
Muscle mass is just a proxy.
It's easy to measure, you know,you can step on a special scale
or get a scan.
SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
But the real metric, the one that truly correlates
with a longer life, is strengthperformance.
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
Yes.
The actual force you canproduce, your neurological
efficiency.
That's what matters.
SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
And the benefit there.
SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
When you compare high strength to low strength,
it's about a threefold reductionin all-cause mortality.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
So you got this potential 5x from cardio and
another 3x from strength.
SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
And they work together synergistically to
create this incredibly protectedstate.
SPEAKER_01 (05:11):
You know, when people hear strength tests, they
immediately think of like heavypower lifting.
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Right.
A one rep max on a squat or adeadlift.
SPEAKER_01 (05:18):
But the tests used in these giant studies are
surprisingly simple.
They're very functional.
SPEAKER_00 (05:24):
They're incredibly accessible because they relate
directly to what you need to doin everyday life.
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
So what are we talking about here?
Things you can test at home.
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
Absolutely.
We're talking about things likegrip strength, the five-rep
sit-to-stand test, which isbasically just how quickly you
can get up and down from a chairfive times.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Okay, that's a measure of quad strength and
power.
SPEAKER_00 (05:45):
Also, air squat performance, and one of my
favorites, the dead hang.
Just how long can you hang froma bar?
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
So this brings up a really important question.
What about genetics?
Some people are just naturallystronger.
How do the studies account forthat?
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
That's a great question.
And while genetics definitelyset your ultimate potential, the
power of these studies is thatthey track people over many
years.
SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
So it's not just a snapshot.
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
No.
They see that it's theimprovement in your strength, no
matter where you start, thatgives you that protective
benefit, even if you don't startwith amazing genetics.
Training to move from lowstrength to just average
strength is what gets you thatthreefold protection.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
So it's all about your personal trajectory, not
where you were born on thegenetic lottery.
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
That's a perfect way to put it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
Okay, so with cardio, we talked about
diminishing returns.
Does the same thing apply tostrength?
Is there a point where gettingstronger doesn't help as much?
SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
You know, that's what's so interesting.
The current data, as it's beenanalyzed, does not show a clear
point of diminishing returns forstrength yet.
Really?
Yeah.
The studies mostly justcategorize people as high versus
low, and being in that highcategory provides a massive
benefit across the board.
The takeaway for now seems to bekeep getting stronger.
(07:00):
Keep getting as strong as youcan functionally, maximize that
resilience.
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Aaron Powell Okay.
So we have the targets the 5xfrom cardio, the 3x from
strength.
Now for the blueprint.
How do you actually get thereweek to week?
What's the prescription?
SPEAKER_00 (07:13):
Aaron Powell You need two different types of
training stimulus every week.
The foundation, the absolutebase of the pyramid, is zone two
training.
SPEAKER_01 (07:21):
Aaron Powell Okay, let's define zone two in a way
that someone listening canactually use, you know, without
a lab.
SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
The technical definition is the highest output
you can sustain while keepingyour blood lactate under two
millimole.
SPEAKER_01 (07:34):
Which means nothing to most people.
SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
Right.
So practically speaking, it'sthe intensity where you could
hold a conversation in fullsentences, but you definitely
couldn't sing a song.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
So you feel the effort, but you could keep it up
for a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
For hours, yeah.
It's that steady state effortthat really builds your
mitochondrial base.
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
What's the minimum dose we're looking for here?
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
The research points to at least three hours a week
of zone two.
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
Three hours.
SPEAKER_00 (08:00):
And ideally that's broken up into four 45-minute
sessions.
If you're really deconditioned,you could start with maybe
three, 30-minute sessions.
SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
And what's the best way to do it?
I hear a lot about stationarybikes.
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
The bike is great because it's so easy to control
your output.
You can just set the wattage andgo.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
No hills, no wind.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Exactly.
But really, any machine works.
A treadmill, an elliptical, aslong as you can maintain that
consistent effort.
The can I talk but not sing testis your best guide.
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
Okay, so that builds the base.
What about the other end of thespectrum?
The high-intensity stuff toreally push that VO2 Max into
the elite tier.
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
For that, you only need one session a week.
And the protocol we use is thefour by four protocol.
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
The four by four.
Walk us through that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
It's simple, but it's very intense.
It's four minutes at theabsolute highest output you can
possibly sustain for that fourminutes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Your maximum sustainable pace.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Exactly.
Then that's followed by afour-minute recovery period
where you're still moving, butvery slowly.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
And you repeat that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
You repeat that sequence five times.
So it ends up being 20 minutesof really hard work, and the
data shows it's just anincredibly potent way to drive
up your VO2 max.
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
That is a very specific, very actual plan.
I love it.
Okay, final piece.
The motivation.
You mentioned aiming for adecade younger elite standard.
What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
It's an aspirational goal, but a powerful one.
We tell people to train so thatthey can achieve the VO2 max and
strength numbers of an eliteperson who is a full decade
younger than they are.
SPEAKER_01 (09:27):
So if I'm a 55-year-old male, I'm aiming for
the elite numbers of a45-year-old.
SPEAKER_00 (09:32):
That's the goal.
Biologically, it ensures yourtraining well past that point of
diminishing returns to reallycapture that full five-fold
benefit.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
And I imagine psychologically it's pretty
powerful too.
SPEAKER_00 (09:44):
It is.
It reframes the whole goal.
You're not just trying to slowdown aging, you're actively
trying to reverse yourbiological clock against
measurable standards.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
Let's make that tangible for strength.
The sources had some veryspecific numbers for that dead
hang test.
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
They did, and they're great targets.
For a male at age 40, the elitestandard is a two-minute dead
hang.
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
Two minutes.
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
For a female at age 40, it's a minute and a half.
SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
And those numbers go down a bit each decade after 40.
SPEAKER_00 (10:11):
They do.
They're discounted slightly.
But that two-minute hang for a40-year-old isn't arbitrary.
It's a reflection of a level ofgrip and upper body resilience
that is highly predictive ofyour future health.
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
And that's the whole point of this deep dive, right?
It's moving from I shouldprobably exercise more to I need
to hit a two-minute dead hangand the VO2 max of someone 10
years younger.
SPEAKER_00 (10:33):
Exactly.
Measurement is the starting linefor mastery.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
So to wrap this up, true longevity comes down to
these two pillars.
You need that elite cardio forthe five-fold reduction in
mortality.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
Through that deep mitochondrial health.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
And you need high strength for the three-fold
reduction.
SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
For that structural resilience.
And it's the combination of thetwo that makes exercise the most
potent anti-aging tool sciencehas ever found.
So what does this all mean?
If you, the listener, had tostart just one thing today, one
single metric to test and totrain, the data suggests that
focusing on those simplestrength tests gives you the
(11:10):
fastest feedback.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
Faster than tracking VO2 max, which is harder to
measure.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Much harder.
But you can test your dead hangor your grip strength right now.
And just working to improvethose simple bodyweight metrics
will likely capture a huge pieceof that threefold protective
factor.
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
So it's the highest yield thing to start with today.
SPEAKER_00 (11:28):
I think so.
It's easier to track than awattage goal on a bike.
So start with your hands andyour lifespan will likely
follow.
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