Want to join the skilled trades as a woman? Judaline Cassidy shares how to start, find support, and thrive in a trades career, from plumbing to advocacy.
Host Andrew Brown sits down with master plumber and trades advocate Judaline Cassidy, founder of Tools and Tiaras, to talk about how women can break into the skilled trades. They dive into the reality of being a female plumber, how trades careers for girls are growing, the power of social media, and how to navigate the path through skilled trades apprenticeships.
If you're looking to join a fulfilling career in construction, carpentry, HVAC, or plumbing, this episode offers real stories and tactical advice from someone who’s lived it.
IN THIS EPISODE:
● (00:03:15) – How Judaline broke into plumbing and proved herself on the jobsite
● (00:08:47) – Why she picked plumbing over electrical and never looked back
● (00:17:33) – Social media’s role in promoting women in skilled trades
● (00:24:50) – How the Tools and Tiaras program empowers girls to explore trades careers
● (00:35:20) – The challenges of being a female plumber on commercial job sites
● (00:49:10) – What girls need to know before starting a skilled trades apprenticeship
Key Takeaways:
● Seeing a female plumber in action can shift a young girl’s entire career path.
● The Tools and Tiaras program introduces trades careers to girls through hands-on learning.
● Union-based skilled trades apprenticeships offer equal pay, benefits, and career longevity.
● Women in skilled trades must prove themselves repeatedly, but change is happening.
About the Guest:
Judaline Cassidy is a union plumber, public speaker, and founder of Tools and Tiaras, a nonprofit that introduces young girls to the trades industry through monthly workshops and summer camps. A longtime advocate for women in skilled trades, Judaline’s mission is to empower girls with tools and the confidence to use them. Her story spans countries, decades, and ceilings shattered, all with a wrench in hand.
Keywords :
Women in Skilled Trades, Female Plumbers, Trades Career for Girls, Tools and Tiaras Program, Skilled Trades Apprenticeship
Skilled Trades, Trades Industry, Andrew Brown, Judaline Cassidy, Toolfetch, Carpentry, HVAC, Electricians, Plumbers, Millwrights, Construction, Craftsmanship, Problem-solving, Creativity, Tradespeople, Advocacy, Trades Careers, Industry Experts, Contractors, Education, Skilled Trades Advisory Council
Resource Links:
Keywords :
Website: https://www.judaline.com/
LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/judaline-cassidy-b1570021/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I want girls to envision themselves in the role. So meeting a
female plumber for the first time changes their mind. Meeting an
architect for the first time. One of our girls is going to be a pilot.
She met a female pilot from JetBlue that we introduced her to that
sparked her interest in being a pilot. Now she went to aviation school,
high school. She's going to become a pilot.
(00:25):
Hi, I'm Andrew Brown. You're listening to the Lost Star of the Skilled Trades
podcast, a show that shines the spotlight on
careers in the skilled trades that are high paying, honorable,
rewarding and fulfilling. The trades are the backbone of the
economy that keep us running, and without them, our world
would cease to exist.
(00:51):
Today we have a special guest, Judaline Cassidy, founder of Tools
and Tiaras. Welcome, Julian, to the show.
Thank you so much for having me, Andrew. I'm excited to be here and
speak with you about the things that we both love, the trades.
Super happy to have you on the show today. I recently had
a young woman plumber on the podcast by the name of
(01:14):
Paige Knowles. She goes by Plumber Paige
on social media. And she was talking about
when she showed up at residential homes,
they would open the door, they'd be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're working on
our plumbing. They thought it would be a man because typically, a lot of
times when it comes to plumbing or trades, they don't always
(01:36):
equate it to women. But interesting enough, they would say to her,
are you sure you can pick that up? Are you sure you can do that?
And some of the men who answer the door was saying, like, oh, my God,
I don't know how to fix this. But she does. And what's interesting is
you had a similar type experience when you first moved to New
York. A foreman on the job site said something memorable to you. Can
(01:58):
you share that story? It was me getting back into
plumbing. I was a housekeeper for a while when I first came in the country,
and a nanny. My neighbor knew I was a plumber. So he told the company
he has a plumber, but didn't tell them it was a woman. So
when I showed up on the job site, the foreman looked at me and he
says, there's no way you can be the plumber. That was his first reaction.
(02:21):
I wasn't upset because. And I don't get upset when people assume that
I can't be the plumber because I'm so adorably cute. So I get that, like,
how many plumbers are cute I could understand with my height. They
look at Me and like, oh, my gosh, she's so small. There's no way. So
to his, you know, credit, that's probably what he was thinking. Just like the
guy Lucy Page. It's just perspective and
(02:44):
what they have been able to see on television, even in their
houses, people don't show the pages. And I and all the
other amazing female plumbers, so how could they know it's
not really their fault. So I never take it as an insult. I just look
at it as a moment to blow their minds.
That's a good way to look at it. But I also think that social media
(03:06):
has really helped us, and I've said this on a few other podcasts, that social
media has really put women in front of
people, because I see plumbers, welders,
all different types of trades, and women are popping up, and they had these huge
platforms on Instagram, on YouTube, and they're showcasing
exactly what they can do with their hands. And it really shows other
(03:28):
women. Yeah, I can do that stuff. I would definitely
say because of social media, people got to know who I am. Right.
And that's how I got to know Paige and a lot of the other
female plumbers. Because for so long, you live in.
Plumbers might live in rural areas as women and don't know there's
a bigger family that they belong to of females. So
(03:49):
I agree with you. Social media has really, really helped me
as a person to get my message out of the love
of the trades and also for my nonprofit, it has also
helped us with that. So definitely. And people like you
bringing spotlight to the amazing superheroes in the
trade, so definitely helped. And totally across the
(04:12):
board. I mean, it's just as advocates like yourself, myself, Mike Rowe,
some other people out there doing some really great work, really showcasing exactly
what people in the trades are doing and trying to get the next generation
into the trades. All different trades are hurting,
you know, on the shortages across the board, and we need more
people getting into the trades and sort of debunking those sort of old
(04:35):
myths about the trades. I do want to talk to you about sort of your
foundation. Just a quick moment, but I want to kind of roll back in.
When you were growing up in Trinidad and Tobago,
what was it like for you? Because you were one of the first three in
plumbing. Yeah. To get into that program. The others dropped out. I
stayed, but it was three of us that actually they finally let in.
(04:57):
And two of them left. And I stayed, but it was difficult. Just like I
said, the guy looking at me, there's no way she could do this. And I
dropped down and I did push ups and I blew his mind. And I got
into the program. I always like to defy people's
expectations. And then also in the Caribbean and a lot of
other countries outside of the us women are raised
(05:19):
to be more caregivers and caretakers and housewife
and teachers and secretaries. Like those kind of
careers. There's not a chance of you seeing somebody doing
what I do. Well, if you had an interview and you were doing pushups on
the floor, I'm sure that kind of blew away whoever was saying that,
no, you can't do that. How long was that? Was it more trade
(05:40):
school oriented? Was that the program? So the program
was skills in general. So if you wanted
to become a tailor, that was offered,
seamtress that was offered back then, a lot of the young
people might be listening. There was such a thing called shorthand
typhoon. So secretarial women would get to that. The
(06:02):
culinary arts, electrical, plumbing and
auto mechanic, that was also one. But in my
mind, like I felt like I am very practical
and logical with my decisions. So in my head I
figured electrical you get shock, plumbing you get wet.
And I was like, here I come. And that's kind of like how I
(06:24):
chose it before I kind of got into it. And then I
fell madly in love with it. And I've been doing it for
25 years plus. Well, it's interesting, everybody's journey. Just
to give you a little bit of background about myself. So I was really
a high tech person. Like I was going to be a programmer.
That's what I kind of studied in school. But when I was
(06:46):
living in New York City on 2011, during
9 11, I got the crazy idea of actually going down
there and helping. So I went down there a handful of days after 911
and I worked back to back with first responders and really
tradespeople on site. So that really changed
everything for me and my trajectory where I thought I was going
(07:08):
into it, that literally I quit my job in IT and Citi
and I formed a company called Tool Fetch with my brother, an
industrial tool and supply company to provide tools to plumbers,
electricians and welders for the last 25 years. So you talk about
trajectory changes. Now you had a different trajectory change cause you wanted to
be. Was it a lawyer? How did that change for you?
(07:31):
Like what was the pivotal point for you to move over to
being a plumber or wanting to be a plumber? I really truly wanted to
be a lawyer. It just seems so
cool and so like really smart and like
people will be coming to you for advice. And even now when they do
interviews, I've seen one for kids in Trinidad and Tobago and
(07:53):
they ask them that they all want to be lawyers. But my great
grandmother who I lived with had passed away with that.
I didn't have the financial access to go to university.
In most Caribbean countries which was owned by the British,
our system of education is similar. So primary school,
secondary school is free. But to go beyond that to
(08:15):
actually become a lawyer, doctor, those things are not free. I
couldn't afford it. So that's why I went to that trade school.
It was free. It was the best decision. I never look back
and have regrets of being a lawyer because I think I'd make
up for it by watching every episode series of Law and Order.
I kind of use negotiation skills all the time
(08:38):
with my job with the nonprofit. So it's really cool.
No regrets. It happened for a reason, right? I was
on 9 11, I that happened for a reason. Changed my trajectory. That
changed your trajectory into a long career and
you're happy and giving back to people who are coming
into the trades and young women who are coming into the trades. And that's
(09:01):
is an amazing feeling. When you actually got to New
York City and when you said originally when you went to the
job site and he said to go blank yourself, was that your
first real job as a plumber at
that point, what was it like for you working? I assume it was all
predominantly men at that point. Were they even accepting at that
(09:23):
point? Because even X amount of years ago, it's
come a long way, even a handful of years ago. Cause it's more accepted with
social media and everything. What was it like day to day? It
was difficult. That day I changed everybody's mind.
Uh, they looked at me, I negotiated with that guy
and that's how I got to work that day. And Jimmy kept me.
(09:45):
Cuz the negotiation deal was I work for free. And he fell for
it. He ended up keeping me. I became the first woman to work for that
plumbing company. The men took me on and
treated me like one of the guys. And you know, Neil
Messina, another amazing brother, he passed away last
year. He taught me like, you know, the things that I didn't know.
(10:07):
Because my plumbing system that I learned is the one pipe system
from England and in America we have the two pipe, the vent and the
drain. So I had to kind of relearn certain things and the men taught
me. But then there was when I shifted from residential Work, which
that was. And I went to big construction is
where it was tough because that small group of guys with
(10:29):
that shop, I'm one of the guys. If they did see me as one of
the girls, it was when my accent made them laugh the way I said
things right? But when I went into big construction, that was tough
because I would be the only woman on a 50
story, 40 story building. Now, no other trade. Maybe
sometimes a laborer, maybe sometimes on the back
(10:52):
end, somebody from Turner or one of those. So nobody would talk to
me. But there's always one guy who would break
protocol and come over. Hi,
my name is Andrew, shake my hand. And then all the
other guys saw that and now they change because one guy
step up. It just takes one person to change the industry. All the men
(11:14):
who are listening to us and you see that woman coming to job, be that
one guy, be that guy. Because I had so many of those guys.
Every time I go to another site was starting over and over again.
Every job site a woman goes to as a
tradesperson, she starting as zero, day one. No
matter how long you've been in the business. And there's always that one guy who
(11:36):
would come up in front of everybody in the shanty, that's what we say in
New York City, and shake your hands. And then everybody else see.
And then him saying, I'll be the one that would work with her,
works with me, then can report to the masses.
She knows her stuff. You know, I won everybody over
with my amazing personality and my skill.
(12:00):
So that's what I did. I took it brick by brick, person by
person. But it weighs on you. It's tough. I mean, you're
basically having to some degree prove yourself each and
every time. I'm sure it took a handful of years
for them to eventually, you know, word of mouth and
that type of stuff and see people on maybe the same job sites,
(12:22):
that type of stuff. It just took time to get more
accepted. There's a woman up in Canada, her name is
Jamie McMillan. She's an iron worker. She's doing wonderful work. I've spoken with her
a couple of times. She was down here when she was in Las Vegas, and
I've met up with her for a show. And just what she had to
go through as an iron worker, but also giving back to
(12:44):
the community, giving back to women who are up and coming, want to be
iron workers. It's not easy. It's not easy to get that
every single time. Improving yourself, it wears on you
mentally. You feel like you've done the work. You would think
that the testament of how long you've been there is
proof that as a woman, a woman of color, a woman
(13:06):
immigrant with an accent, for me to be here
25 and counting, I have to know my trade.
It couldn't be because, I mean, I'm adorably cute and
smart. It just can't be that I have to know my craft too. Right. So
you would think that that would be logical that Jamie's been here
because I know her. We've been around a long time. If we didn't know it,
(13:29):
we wouldn't be working. That's a great thing about the trades. Like, you have to
know what you're doing over a period of time to keep working. So you would
think that would help, but as a woman, it doesn't. They find
excuses to fool while you bet. You're still here.
Yeah. And it's great that both of you and other women have persevered right through
this and have kept it going, but it just. You become
(13:50):
quote, unquote, role models to other women who think
like it is possible to do well in the
trades. What is the feeling? This only goes
from experience. What I talk to a lot of different tradespeople is the fulfillment
aspect of completing something. What is it like to
complete a project, especially a large commercial project?
(14:13):
You know, after you did that, you helped put that plumbing in. What is that
feeling? Like there's a shift that happens as
an individual when you complete something or you use a
tool. It's almost like, I mean, I love superhero
movies. I feel like when I'm finished with something like a
superhero, when I've made somebody's day better because their plumbing
(14:35):
wasn't going bad, and I come in there, I improve their lives daily
through plumbing. So there's no other feeling. Like
I get a intoxicating high when I go in.
I go in with them not believing I'm the plumber,
me convincing them that I'll make their day better. And by the time
I'm ready to leave, they so happy and want to bless you
(14:58):
with gifts and stuff like that. So I don't know. It's intoxicating
and it brings a sense of pride to know that you are part of a
community that keeps on building America.
And you have this pride of walking down,
whether it be the UN 42nd Street. And I know our kids
and our families get tired of us pointing out all of these
(15:20):
buildings and stuff that we did, but we've left our
mark, I think as tradesmen and tradeswomen and
tradespeople, you know, include everyone. We are leaving
our handprints and our work prints in every
building we touch. For generations, I've only met
happy go lucky tradespeople who are only satisfied
(15:41):
to say, I built that bridge, I built that tunnel, I put that plumbing
in, and they light up. Exactly. When you talk about
a project, I'm always in awe with a lot of the work that's done. The
only feeling that I got recently and you like this, is when
my residential plumbing, my sink froze. There was
no water coming up. And my wife's like, you got to fix that. I'm like,
(16:04):
okay, I'll fix it. So I blast these two heaters
underneath the sink. Finally, it fought out, and for about
two minutes, I felt a sense of fulfillment. My wife gave me a
pat on the back, and it was a good feeling. But I can imagine the
sense of that feeling about putting that together in a high
rise building. And you did that work. It's an overall great
(16:26):
feeling. Especially like, I used to work in really big high rise
buildings in New York City, and now I work for the city of New York
in public housing. And right then and there, I
get to see the immediate effect of what I
do. Somebody's been. Water is flooding their apartment. I come in
there, I break the wall, I take the pipe out, I put a new. And
(16:48):
I just made their day better. They can sleep. So you can see it immediately.
And like I said, it's very. For that little moment you did that and she
gave you a nice little pat on the back. And then maybe she was nice
enough to let you watch your TV show instead of hers, like we normally do
for that moment. Right. It felt really good. That's what we feel
on a daily basis. That's why you see construction workers, like
(17:10):
we walk around with our head lifted high. It's such
a pride to make things. With your hands, you know,
It's a wonderful thing. You should. Because I do feel that tradespeople
should be more recognized because they tend to be the ones behind the scenes.
But I always say they make the economy run because if they all disappeared tomorrow,
we'd be pretty sol if we didn't have it. Well, we
(17:33):
did see that, right? I saw the shift of how people looked at
us when Covid happened. We were the ones who still
had to go to work through it all. Some people, they were able to
work remotely. How could I do plumbing remotely? We had
to be at ground zero making those
temporary hospitals and those oxygen lines and
(17:55):
yeah, we did that so we worked through it, and I think a lot of
people didn't realize how important, especially the plumbing
is for general overall health of a
nation and a community. Because one of the main things they told us to do
was wash your hands, right? So if nobody's house had
water, how would they do that? Right? So I saw a
(18:17):
respect. There's two things I saw to shift the way people looked at me as
a plumber when I first started. People looked at me in the street
and judged me that I probably wasn't smart enough. I'm so
filthy. That was the look when Mike Rose started dirty
jobs. That changed big time. People started looking at me
different. And then during COVID now I don't see the
(18:39):
judgment look like I did before, or their parents
telling the kids, don't grow up to be like them. I don't see that anymore.
I really don't. I saw the shift through the years of being in the business.
I do believe that Mike Rowe did change that old adage when
he started showcasing all these people in blue collar and the
money that they make by doing some of these jobs that you never thought
(19:02):
would be, you know, really successful. But he sort of paved the
way for this on social media. Because I want to go back to social
media because there is a lot of pushback, and I hope you can give some
color to this. A little bit more is wages.
A lot of kids, they say, whoa, why would I
want to go into plumbing or welding or carpentry?
(19:24):
I'm just an apprentice. I'm only making $18 an hour. I can work at
McDonald's. I could work at Chipotle and make more money. What would
you say to people out there, and especially women who are thinking about
getting into plumbing? How long would it take to start
making money? But you have to start somewhere. You have to start as
a. As an apprentice. Everybody starts somewhere. It doesn't matter what career
(19:47):
you in, whether it be a lawyer. You have to study from the bottom. If
you decided to be an influencer, everything,
there's ground zero and there's up from there. The difference
between someone working at McDonald's, that is. Nothing's wrong with that
because like I said, I was a housekeeper and a nanny. The
difference is you will get in a career in the
(20:08):
trades than a job. Those are
jobs. And it's not the path to success. Being an
apprentice and then journeying out or even if you never went, which I.
I believe in the union, apprenticeship. Let's say you didn't even do that. And Andrew
they came up with, with you they gained knowledge that they can then
open their own business and become a business owner
(20:31):
and become wealthy. Or they can say you know what, I don't even want to
live here anymore in the usa. I'm tired of the coal.
You know, I wanna eat mangoes and coconut water every day and
go to another country and still have a job. Because that's what the skilled
trades does. There was recent data that shows the new
millionaires are coming from the skilled trades.
(20:53):
H vac, plumbing, electrical, everybody's going to need that.
You never say never. But the chances are I take in my
job tomorrow is slim to none. All of those
other things could get automated. The food could get
automated just like the factories making the car gut. All of those things
at some point could get automated. But what we do,
(21:15):
that robot has to be really adorably cute, smart,
skilled, all of that in one package to do what I do
and bring personality to the job, to the person. I don't see the
robot winning me on that point.
Robot0Doodling1
those things are just jobs and what we do is careers that
(21:37):
you could change. You could be on the back end. You don't always have to
work with your hands, with the tools. You can design plumbing, you can work in
designing fixtures. You can, it's like so many, I think people really
don't understand how vast every
single field is, whether it be sheet metal, electrical,
elevator operator, boilermakers, the welders. There's
(21:59):
just so many different broken down divisions and sections within
that you will always have a career, you have a. Skill that's in demand.
AI is not going to take your job. You know, they said robots are going
to take over the blue collar skilled trades. They didn't realize that AI is coming
for your white collar job. I mean it's just, it's really funny but like you
said, the younger generation, Gen Z, I'm only
(22:20):
phrasing what the Wall Street Journal said, that they're becoming the tool belt generation.
Because it's really true that they are looking at a four year college
degree, that's a hundred plus thousand dollars. Or I can start in
this apprenticeship, start making money, I can learn and earn, work my
way up. I always say even in the trades, yes, when
there's a recession people don't do big projects but there's always something
(22:43):
to do, right? Plumbing always fails in residential homes,
is always something and it's always worked. You're always in demand and
I try to instill that into parents, into kids and like
you said there's a lot of different paths that you can take, not just be
in the field, you can own your own business one day if you want to
be entrepreneurial. I wanted to switch over
(23:05):
quickly and I just wanted to see if you wanted to give some feedback on
this about. Because also the union versus
non union path, can you shed any light a little
bit about, you know, if somebody's thinking about union
versus non union, the different paths sort of the take and why or why
not. So it's good you asked that question because I was going to talk a
(23:25):
little bit about the union with that last question about the difference. Do you
see? So I'm on the executive board of my union. Every time we
bring new apprentices in to start our apprenticeship program, the
chairman of the board, he asked his questions, all those who are vets and they
stand up and we give them the respect that they deserve, we clap and we
say thank you for your service and we're really proud of that. And then the
(23:47):
next question is all those who went to college and
every month almost half of the room put
their hands up that they went to college and
now here they are. That shows you seeing that every
time now being on the executive board, the hands go up. So many of them
spend so many money going to college. The union route
(24:09):
is better because of the things that you get. And
as a woman they're equal pay for me. So they. The guy who's
6 foot 2, my partner Chip that I love so much,
he's 6 foot 4 something he was. And I'm
4 foot 11 and 7 eights and he gets the same salary
and I get the same salary. We do the same work and we're doing it
(24:31):
together. The apprenticeship is a path why I love it
that somebody could learn the science behind what they do.
Most people start off non union. When I got into that company I was non
union and then I got into the union. So the path of the
apprenticeship, what I love about it is learning the knowledge
behind what you do because you could be non union And
(24:54):
Andrew, you teach me every single thing and I just do it because
I just saw you do it like that and that's the way to do it.
But I really wouldn't know what is the science, the
mathematical equations behind that. And then with the
union you have access to a 401k plan,
a pension, very good healthcare. That's the big
(25:15):
difference. It's a great path if you can get in. And I know
as a union we can do a lot better Letting People in. But
I, I saw the five years of studying
what I did. I know why I do what I do. So when a customer
asks me why is the trap a certain height? That's what
people don't realize because of my amazing work is behind the wall.
(25:37):
There's a science and that's what you learn with the union
apprenticeship. And you get to earn while you learn and avoid that
college debt. It's a great path to be on. There's definitely a lot
of pros being in the union, but you did touch upon this, that there's only
a certain amount of seats. Right. So I'm picturing my, my extended
family member who wants to be an electrician and he's trying to do it in
(25:57):
California. He couldn't get it and he had to take a different job
in a solar company. He's going to reapply again. What would you suggest
that that happens if somebody applies, they just don't get in? Would you say to
keep going for it, like reapply? And I would say keep going. I
would say keep going. I know it's hard because you got to think about it.
Everything in life has a limited amount of space. And like when
(26:19):
we have our influx for kids who are trying to come in, there's a long
line for days and we only give out 200 applications
every classroom. The classroom can be unlimited size and it's
safety. So I always tell people, don't give up. And even
sometimes, what's sad too, sometimes people get in
and by their second or third year, it's tough because
(26:42):
people think it's easy. Not the elements you work in,
the personalities and in the school you have to
get a 70 average and you have to learn Pythagoras theorem and
volume. And so people drop out. It's
hard. Like some people might only make it to the third year. So when
somebody, someone journeys out, it's a huge
(27:03):
accomplishment. And I would say to anybody, just keep on trying.
I know as a, as a union and stuff like that, we can do a
lot better letting people in or maybe figure out a way to
do the classes differently because it's over five years because you
have to still work. So there's room for improvement. Like any
other company or any other industry. There's always room
(27:26):
for improvement. But I would still choose the union
path over any other any day because I was able
to. I grew up in Trinidad and Tobago, extremely poor
and to have the lifestyle that I like to say is a soft girl
lifestyle now and the diverse things that I have and the access to the things
that I have. None of that would be possible if I wasn't making
(27:48):
a union salary. And that's just the facts. Yeah, look, it's
the hard work that you put in and the work that you've done is paid
off over time. Takes time to build. And that's what kids need to learn, is
that it's not instant gratification, it's delayed gratification.
It might take a handful of years to get to where you want to. This
is not easy work. And again, I was just using example of my
(28:10):
extended family member. Like, you know, he was telling me what he needs to study.
Like, it's not easy stuff. It's not. Sometimes
people equate that you're in the trades so you. You're not higher education.
I'm only using that as an example that I hear. It's
not like that at all. You need to learn math and like, really complex stuff
that you need to learn. I wish I was close to where I could go
(28:31):
get my books, some of my books that I have from school or even when
I had to study the plumbing code to get the city job that I have.
It's like a Bible. You should see that book. It's no
joke. And electricians are even worse. Their code is even bigger than
ours. It's like four Bibles put together. It is not
what you think. One of the myths I want to debunk.
(28:52):
People assume that people choose the trades because they
wasn't smart enough to go to college. That is a lie. Because
every single one of you listening to Andrew and I's and my
voice right now, you use buildings that we
built and you trust us that our mathematical
engineering, all the things that we did worked out great.
(29:15):
So you had to be smart to build these things that you guys use on
a daily basis. So it's not because we wasn't smart enough for
college. It's because we were smart enough not to go to college
as is itself and get that debt. Exactly. And that's a great way
to put it. Like, college is not for everybody. The trades is
not for everybody. But I only feel that if you have that
(29:37):
mechanical ability, if you have that technical spark and you're going through
school, there should be a guidance counselor who would sit
with you and say, hey, like, you know, you are good with your
hands. Maybe consider a trades path. It can't just be college, college,
college, college. And there should be an option for the trades. And
hopefully that conversation that's happening in schools it's
(29:59):
not like kids are taking shop class today. A lot of those shop classes were
taken out, so they don't have that ability. Some people are going into trades
because they have family members that have gone into the trades or they know
somebody's in the trades. But I think we need to do a better job when
it comes to career expiration into the trades. Overall,
I wanted to shift over to giving back to your
(30:20):
community. And you're doing that really through a foundation called Tools and
Tiaras. Can you talk a little bit about how that program works
and how you're really changing the game, making an impact? I started
Tools and Tarot because I wish I had learned the
empowerment that I feel from being a plumber. When I was a little girl,
I had it, and then we lost it. So at Tools and Tears, we have
(30:42):
free monthly workshops for girls in careers
in steam. They learn electrical,
plumbing, welding, auto mechanic, architecture,
bricklaying, welding. So
those are the skills that they use with their hands. Right. We do that in
monthly workshops and our summer camp. And then we also teach them
(31:04):
life skills like public speaking, self defense,
financial literacy, activism, to be part of the community
and help. So that's what we do. And the reason why I did it, I
wanted kids to grow up respecting the skill trades and the
people that they see. And we've seen that the girls really, really
take to it and want to do those careers. So we just
(31:27):
expose them to amazing women within these industries. So we don't
have any male teachers. I have men who help us. I
call them Malays, and they help us in the back and give us
whatever we need. But I want girls to envision themselves in
the role. So meeting a female plumber for the first time changes their
mind. Meeting an architect for the first time. One of our girls is
(31:50):
going to be a pilot. She met a female pilot from JetBlue that we introduced
her to that sparked her interest in being a pilot. Now she
went to aviation school, high school. She's going to become a pilot.
You know, since I started, we started to see the first set of girls because
we start really young. I start really young. One of the first people,
six years old, I put tools in their hands, whether it be a welding
(32:13):
torch, a drill, a hammer,
and they love it. So that's the core essence of our program,
is just to get girls touching tools sooner,
earlier, thereby sparking their interest within
careers and also mostly empowerment and
knowing if they never took this path, they will always be an ally
(32:36):
for our industry. I'm a big believer the earlier
you can get tools into kids hands under supervision,
you know, the better. So they get used to wanting to work with their hands
and they are giving back to the community. For women who have
never touched a tool or power tool, you know, a young age
and the percentage now goes up that they may go
(32:58):
into a trade, you know, I don't know if you know of
a teacher out there. His name is Edvin Jarrett, he's out of Pennsylvania
and he works for a school. He's doing wonderful things in a school where
he's teaching kids at a young age. And they have blowtorches and they're running around
and then I always see him live on Instagram. There's also
a woman by the name of Mary Gaffney who's on our foundation called the
(33:21):
SkilledRays Advisory Council and she runs the
Mywic, it's a women in construction. She's got a camp where she takes about
80 women and they go through the program over the summer. They get free
tools and work boots and some of the women have come out and
girls have come out and they've gone into the trade. So it's wonderful what you're
doing and I love these programs because that's how you get the hearts of the
(33:43):
kids at an early age.
Now, the tools of the trade. In every
episode, we always ask our guest a tools of the trade.
What's one piece or career advice you can give a
young woman wanting to get into the plumbing trade? What would you
(34:04):
say to her? I would say, first of all, really,
really make sure you want to do it because it's one of the tough trades,
physically and mentally. And if you check all of those
boxes and you say, yeah, I still want to do it, believe in
yourself. You can do it. Hard days are going to come,
but I want you to remember your why and your why
(34:26):
will keep you going. When days get difficult, give it a
shot. Don't be afraid. You have all that you need. That's what I
would tell her. That is great advice. You know, again, going back
to your journey and what you went through and how successful
you've become and being in the union, being in New York
City, pushing against all that with all the men
(34:49):
on the job site, you came through that and it's possible.
So thank you for what you do and you impact many people's
lives, you know, young and old. So thank you for what you
do. Thank you. Likewise, Yu. It's my honor and privilege to
do what I do. And I think it's incumbent on all of
us, when we learn, we give and when we have knowledge,
(35:12):
we teach. We're just supposed to do that. So it's an honor and a
privilege. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to share my story.
If people want to find out more information about you website or social
media, where do they go to find you? Just google my name right? It's easy.
I love being having an unusual name Julian Cassidy but tools and
tarot we on all the platforms, LinkedIn, Instagram,
(35:35):
Facebook, TikTok. You can find us and
you can see what we do in and if you believe in what we're doing,
just support us and show the girls some love. That's
great stuff. Definitely check out Judah Lynn's stuff. She's doing great things out there. Thank
you so much for being on the show today. No, thank you for having me
and. Thank you to our listeners. If you want more valuable insights and trades related
(35:56):
information, head over to andrewbrown.net and join our Trades
Movement newsletter where we advocate for the trades, share inspirational
stories, provide resources and you join a passionate
trades community. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never
miss another episode. We'll see you next time.
(36:16):
Thanks for listening to the Lost Art of the Skilled Trades. Visit
us@AndrewBrown.net for more resources and tips.
Join us next time for real stories and meaningful initiatives
as we celebrate our men and women in the skilled trades and shape
the future together.
I want girls to envision themselves in the role. So meeting a
female plumber for the first time changes their mind. Meeting an
architect for the first time. One of our girls is going to be a pilot.
She met a female pilot from JetBlue that we introduced her to that
sparked her interest in being a pilot. Now she went to aviation school,
high school. She's going to become a pilot.
(00:25):
Hi, I'm Andrew Brown. You're listening to the Lost Star of the Skilled Trades
podcast, a show that shines the spotlight on
careers in the skilled trades that are high paying, honorable,
rewarding and fulfilling. The trades are the backbone of the
economy that keep us running, and without them, our world
would cease to exist.
(00:51):
Today we have a special guest, Judaline Cassidy, founder of Tools
and Tiaras. Welcome, Julian, to the show.
Thank you so much for having me, Andrew. I'm excited to be here and
speak with you about the things that we both love, the trades.
Super happy to have you on the show today. I recently had
a young woman plumber on the podcast by the name of
(01:14):
Paige Knowles. She goes by Plumber Paige
on social media. And she was talking about
when she showed up at residential homes,
they would open the door, they'd be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're working on
our plumbing. They thought it would be a man because typically, a lot of
times when it comes to plumbing or trades, they don't always
(01:36):
equate it to women. But interesting enough, they would say to her,
are you sure you can pick that up? Are you sure you can do that?
And some of the men who answer the door was saying, like, oh, my God,
I don't know how to fix this. But she does. And what's interesting is
you had a similar type experience when you first moved to New
York. A foreman on the job site said something memorable to you. Can
(01:58):
you share that story? It was me getting back into
plumbing. I was a housekeeper for a while when I first came in the country,
and a nanny. My neighbor knew I was a plumber. So he told the company
he has a plumber, but didn't tell them it was a woman. So
when I showed up on the job site, the foreman looked at me and he
says, there's no way you can be the plumber. That was his first reaction.
(02:21):
I wasn't upset because. And I don't get upset when people assume that
I can't be the plumber because I'm so adorably cute. So I get that, like,
how many plumbers are cute I could understand with my height. They
look at Me and like, oh, my gosh, she's so small. There's no way. So
to his, you know, credit, that's probably what he was thinking. Just like the
guy Lucy Page. It's just perspective and
(02:44):
what they have been able to see on television, even in their
houses, people don't show the pages. And I and all the
other amazing female plumbers, so how could they know it's
not really their fault. So I never take it as an insult. I just look
at it as a moment to blow their minds.
That's a good way to look at it. But I also think that social media
(03:06):
has really helped us, and I've said this on a few other podcasts, that social
media has really put women in front of
people, because I see plumbers, welders,
all different types of trades, and women are popping up, and they had these huge
platforms on Instagram, on YouTube, and they're showcasing
exactly what they can do with their hands. And it really shows other
(03:28):
women. Yeah, I can do that stuff. I would definitely
say because of social media, people got to know who I am. Right.
And that's how I got to know Paige and a lot of the other
female plumbers. Because for so long, you live in.
Plumbers might live in rural areas as women and don't know there's
a bigger family that they belong to of females. So
(03:49):
I agree with you. Social media has really, really helped me
as a person to get my message out of the love
of the trades and also for my nonprofit, it has also
helped us with that. So definitely. And people like you
bringing spotlight to the amazing superheroes in the
trade, so definitely helped. And totally across the
(04:12):
board. I mean, it's just as advocates like yourself, myself, Mike Rowe,
some other people out there doing some really great work, really showcasing exactly
what people in the trades are doing and trying to get the next generation
into the trades. All different trades are hurting,
you know, on the shortages across the board, and we need more
people getting into the trades and sort of debunking those sort of old
(04:35):
myths about the trades. I do want to talk to you about sort of your
foundation. Just a quick moment, but I want to kind of roll back in.
When you were growing up in Trinidad and Tobago,
what was it like for you? Because you were one of the first three in
plumbing. Yeah. To get into that program. The others dropped out. I
stayed, but it was three of us that actually they finally let in.
(04:57):
And two of them left. And I stayed, but it was difficult. Just like I
said, the guy looking at me, there's no way she could do this. And I
dropped down and I did push ups and I blew his mind. And I got
into the program. I always like to defy people's
expectations. And then also in the Caribbean and a lot of
other countries outside of the us women are raised
(05:19):
to be more caregivers and caretakers and housewife
and teachers and secretaries. Like those kind of
careers. There's not a chance of you seeing somebody doing
what I do. Well, if you had an interview and you were doing pushups on
the floor, I'm sure that kind of blew away whoever was saying that,
no, you can't do that. How long was that? Was it more trade
(05:40):
school oriented? Was that the program? So the program
was skills in general. So if you wanted
to become a tailor, that was offered,
seamtress that was offered back then, a lot of the young
people might be listening. There was such a thing called shorthand
typhoon. So secretarial women would get to that. The
(06:02):
culinary arts, electrical, plumbing and
auto mechanic, that was also one. But in my
mind, like I felt like I am very practical
and logical with my decisions. So in my head I
figured electrical you get shock, plumbing you get wet.
And I was like, here I come. And that's kind of like how I
(06:24):
chose it before I kind of got into it. And then I
fell madly in love with it. And I've been doing it for
25 years plus. Well, it's interesting, everybody's journey. Just
to give you a little bit of background about myself. So I was really
a high tech person. Like I was going to be a programmer.
That's what I kind of studied in school. But when I was
(06:46):
living in New York City on 2011, during
9 11, I got the crazy idea of actually going down
there and helping. So I went down there a handful of days after 911
and I worked back to back with first responders and really
tradespeople on site. So that really changed
everything for me and my trajectory where I thought I was going
(07:08):
into it, that literally I quit my job in IT and Citi
and I formed a company called Tool Fetch with my brother, an
industrial tool and supply company to provide tools to plumbers,
electricians and welders for the last 25 years. So you talk about
trajectory changes. Now you had a different trajectory change cause you wanted to
be. Was it a lawyer? How did that change for you?
(07:31):
Like what was the pivotal point for you to move over to
being a plumber or wanting to be a plumber? I really truly wanted to
be a lawyer. It just seems so
cool and so like really smart and like
people will be coming to you for advice. And even now when they do
interviews, I've seen one for kids in Trinidad and Tobago and
(07:53):
they ask them that they all want to be lawyers. But my great
grandmother who I lived with had passed away with that.
I didn't have the financial access to go to university.
In most Caribbean countries which was owned by the British,
our system of education is similar. So primary school,
secondary school is free. But to go beyond that to
(08:15):
actually become a lawyer, doctor, those things are not free. I
couldn't afford it. So that's why I went to that trade school.
It was free. It was the best decision. I never look back
and have regrets of being a lawyer because I think I'd make
up for it by watching every episode series of Law and Order.
I kind of use negotiation skills all the time
(08:38):
with my job with the nonprofit. So it's really cool.
No regrets. It happened for a reason, right? I was
on 9 11, I that happened for a reason. Changed my trajectory. That
changed your trajectory into a long career and
you're happy and giving back to people who are coming
into the trades and young women who are coming into the trades. And that's
(09:01):
is an amazing feeling. When you actually got to New
York City and when you said originally when you went to the
job site and he said to go blank yourself, was that your
first real job as a plumber at
that point, what was it like for you working? I assume it was all
predominantly men at that point. Were they even accepting at that
(09:23):
point? Because even X amount of years ago, it's
come a long way, even a handful of years ago. Cause it's more accepted with
social media and everything. What was it like day to day? It
was difficult. That day I changed everybody's mind.
Uh, they looked at me, I negotiated with that guy
and that's how I got to work that day. And Jimmy kept me.
(09:45):
Cuz the negotiation deal was I work for free. And he fell for
it. He ended up keeping me. I became the first woman to work for that
plumbing company. The men took me on and
treated me like one of the guys. And you know, Neil
Messina, another amazing brother, he passed away last
year. He taught me like, you know, the things that I didn't know.
(10:07):
Because my plumbing system that I learned is the one pipe system
from England and in America we have the two pipe, the vent and the
drain. So I had to kind of relearn certain things and the men taught
me. But then there was when I shifted from residential Work, which
that was. And I went to big construction is
where it was tough because that small group of guys with
(10:29):
that shop, I'm one of the guys. If they did see me as one of
the girls, it was when my accent made them laugh the way I said
things right? But when I went into big construction, that was tough
because I would be the only woman on a 50
story, 40 story building. Now, no other trade. Maybe
sometimes a laborer, maybe sometimes on the back
(10:52):
end, somebody from Turner or one of those. So nobody would talk to
me. But there's always one guy who would break
protocol and come over. Hi,
my name is Andrew, shake my hand. And then all the
other guys saw that and now they change because one guy
step up. It just takes one person to change the industry. All the men
(11:14):
who are listening to us and you see that woman coming to job, be that
one guy, be that guy. Because I had so many of those guys.
Every time I go to another site was starting over and over again.
Every job site a woman goes to as a
tradesperson, she starting as zero, day one. No
matter how long you've been in the business. And there's always that one guy who
(11:36):
would come up in front of everybody in the shanty, that's what we say in
New York City, and shake your hands. And then everybody else see.
And then him saying, I'll be the one that would work with her,
works with me, then can report to the masses.
She knows her stuff. You know, I won everybody over
with my amazing personality and my skill.
(12:00):
So that's what I did. I took it brick by brick, person by
person. But it weighs on you. It's tough. I mean, you're
basically having to some degree prove yourself each and
every time. I'm sure it took a handful of years
for them to eventually, you know, word of mouth and
that type of stuff and see people on maybe the same job sites,
(12:22):
that type of stuff. It just took time to get more
accepted. There's a woman up in Canada, her name is
Jamie McMillan. She's an iron worker. She's doing wonderful work. I've spoken with her
a couple of times. She was down here when she was in Las Vegas, and
I've met up with her for a show. And just what she had to
go through as an iron worker, but also giving back to
(12:44):
the community, giving back to women who are up and coming, want to be
iron workers. It's not easy. It's not easy to get that
every single time. Improving yourself, it wears on you
mentally. You feel like you've done the work. You would think
that the testament of how long you've been there is
proof that as a woman, a woman of color, a woman
(13:06):
immigrant with an accent, for me to be here
25 and counting, I have to know my trade.
It couldn't be because, I mean, I'm adorably cute and
smart. It just can't be that I have to know my craft too. Right. So
you would think that that would be logical that Jamie's been here
because I know her. We've been around a long time. If we didn't know it,
(13:29):
we wouldn't be working. That's a great thing about the trades. Like, you have to
know what you're doing over a period of time to keep working. So you would
think that would help, but as a woman, it doesn't. They find
excuses to fool while you bet. You're still here.
Yeah. And it's great that both of you and other women have persevered right through
this and have kept it going, but it just. You become
(13:50):
quote, unquote, role models to other women who think
like it is possible to do well in the
trades. What is the feeling? This only goes
from experience. What I talk to a lot of different tradespeople is the fulfillment
aspect of completing something. What is it like to
complete a project, especially a large commercial project?
(14:13):
You know, after you did that, you helped put that plumbing in. What is that
feeling? Like there's a shift that happens as
an individual when you complete something or you use a
tool. It's almost like, I mean, I love superhero
movies. I feel like when I'm finished with something like a
superhero, when I've made somebody's day better because their plumbing
(14:35):
wasn't going bad, and I come in there, I improve their lives daily
through plumbing. So there's no other feeling. Like
I get a intoxicating high when I go in.
I go in with them not believing I'm the plumber,
me convincing them that I'll make their day better. And by the time
I'm ready to leave, they so happy and want to bless you
(14:58):
with gifts and stuff like that. So I don't know. It's intoxicating
and it brings a sense of pride to know that you are part of a
community that keeps on building America.
And you have this pride of walking down,
whether it be the UN 42nd Street. And I know our kids
and our families get tired of us pointing out all of these
(15:20):
buildings and stuff that we did, but we've left our
mark, I think as tradesmen and tradeswomen and
tradespeople, you know, include everyone. We are leaving
our handprints and our work prints in every
building we touch. For generations, I've only met
happy go lucky tradespeople who are only satisfied
(15:41):
to say, I built that bridge, I built that tunnel, I put that plumbing
in, and they light up. Exactly. When you talk about
a project, I'm always in awe with a lot of the work that's done. The
only feeling that I got recently and you like this, is when
my residential plumbing, my sink froze. There was
no water coming up. And my wife's like, you got to fix that. I'm like,
(16:04):
okay, I'll fix it. So I blast these two heaters
underneath the sink. Finally, it fought out, and for about
two minutes, I felt a sense of fulfillment. My wife gave me a
pat on the back, and it was a good feeling. But I can imagine the
sense of that feeling about putting that together in a high
rise building. And you did that work. It's an overall great
(16:26):
feeling. Especially like, I used to work in really big high rise
buildings in New York City, and now I work for the city of New York
in public housing. And right then and there, I
get to see the immediate effect of what I
do. Somebody's been. Water is flooding their apartment. I come in
there, I break the wall, I take the pipe out, I put a new. And
(16:48):
I just made their day better. They can sleep. So you can see it immediately.
And like I said, it's very. For that little moment you did that and she
gave you a nice little pat on the back. And then maybe she was nice
enough to let you watch your TV show instead of hers, like we normally do
for that moment. Right. It felt really good. That's what we feel
on a daily basis. That's why you see construction workers, like
(17:10):
we walk around with our head lifted high. It's such
a pride to make things. With your hands, you know,
It's a wonderful thing. You should. Because I do feel that tradespeople
should be more recognized because they tend to be the ones behind the scenes.
But I always say they make the economy run because if they all disappeared tomorrow,
we'd be pretty sol if we didn't have it. Well, we
(17:33):
did see that, right? I saw the shift of how people looked at
us when Covid happened. We were the ones who still
had to go to work through it all. Some people, they were able to
work remotely. How could I do plumbing remotely? We had
to be at ground zero making those
temporary hospitals and those oxygen lines and
(17:55):
yeah, we did that so we worked through it, and I think a lot of
people didn't realize how important, especially the plumbing
is for general overall health of a
nation and a community. Because one of the main things they told us to do
was wash your hands, right? So if nobody's house had
water, how would they do that? Right? So I saw a
(18:17):
respect. There's two things I saw to shift the way people looked at me as
a plumber when I first started. People looked at me in the street
and judged me that I probably wasn't smart enough. I'm so
filthy. That was the look when Mike Rose started dirty
jobs. That changed big time. People started looking at me
different. And then during COVID now I don't see the
(18:39):
judgment look like I did before, or their parents
telling the kids, don't grow up to be like them. I don't see that anymore.
I really don't. I saw the shift through the years of being in the business.
I do believe that Mike Rowe did change that old adage when
he started showcasing all these people in blue collar and the
money that they make by doing some of these jobs that you never thought
(19:02):
would be, you know, really successful. But he sort of paved the
way for this on social media. Because I want to go back to social
media because there is a lot of pushback, and I hope you can give some
color to this. A little bit more is wages.
A lot of kids, they say, whoa, why would I
want to go into plumbing or welding or carpentry?
(19:24):
I'm just an apprentice. I'm only making $18 an hour. I can work at
McDonald's. I could work at Chipotle and make more money. What would
you say to people out there, and especially women who are thinking about
getting into plumbing? How long would it take to start
making money? But you have to start somewhere. You have to start as
a. As an apprentice. Everybody starts somewhere. It doesn't matter what career
(19:47):
you in, whether it be a lawyer. You have to study from the bottom. If
you decided to be an influencer, everything,
there's ground zero and there's up from there. The difference
between someone working at McDonald's, that is. Nothing's wrong with that
because like I said, I was a housekeeper and a nanny. The
difference is you will get in a career in the
(20:08):
trades than a job. Those are
jobs. And it's not the path to success. Being an
apprentice and then journeying out or even if you never went, which I.
I believe in the union, apprenticeship. Let's say you didn't even do that. And Andrew
they came up with, with you they gained knowledge that they can then
open their own business and become a business owner
(20:31):
and become wealthy. Or they can say you know what, I don't even want to
live here anymore in the usa. I'm tired of the coal.
You know, I wanna eat mangoes and coconut water every day and
go to another country and still have a job. Because that's what the skilled
trades does. There was recent data that shows the new
millionaires are coming from the skilled trades.
(20:53):
H vac, plumbing, electrical, everybody's going to need that.
You never say never. But the chances are I take in my
job tomorrow is slim to none. All of those
other things could get automated. The food could get
automated just like the factories making the car gut. All of those things
at some point could get automated. But what we do,
(21:15):
that robot has to be really adorably cute, smart,
skilled, all of that in one package to do what I do
and bring personality to the job, to the person. I don't see the
robot winning me on that point.
Robot0Doodling1
those things are just jobs and what we do is careers that
(21:37):
you could change. You could be on the back end. You don't always have to
work with your hands, with the tools. You can design plumbing, you can work in
designing fixtures. You can, it's like so many, I think people really
don't understand how vast every
single field is, whether it be sheet metal, electrical,
elevator operator, boilermakers, the welders. There's
(21:59):
just so many different broken down divisions and sections within
that you will always have a career, you have a. Skill that's in demand.
AI is not going to take your job. You know, they said robots are going
to take over the blue collar skilled trades. They didn't realize that AI is coming
for your white collar job. I mean it's just, it's really funny but like you
said, the younger generation, Gen Z, I'm only
(22:20):
phrasing what the Wall Street Journal said, that they're becoming the tool belt generation.
Because it's really true that they are looking at a four year college
degree, that's a hundred plus thousand dollars. Or I can start in
this apprenticeship, start making money, I can learn and earn, work my
way up. I always say even in the trades, yes, when
there's a recession people don't do big projects but there's always something
(22:43):
to do, right? Plumbing always fails in residential homes,
is always something and it's always worked. You're always in demand and
I try to instill that into parents, into kids and like
you said there's a lot of different paths that you can take, not just be
in the field, you can own your own business one day if you want to
be entrepreneurial. I wanted to switch over
(23:05):
quickly and I just wanted to see if you wanted to give some feedback on
this about. Because also the union versus
non union path, can you shed any light a little
bit about, you know, if somebody's thinking about union
versus non union, the different paths sort of the take and why or why
not. So it's good you asked that question because I was going to talk a
(23:25):
little bit about the union with that last question about the difference. Do you
see? So I'm on the executive board of my union. Every time we
bring new apprentices in to start our apprenticeship program, the
chairman of the board, he asked his questions, all those who are vets and they
stand up and we give them the respect that they deserve, we clap and we
say thank you for your service and we're really proud of that. And then the
(23:47):
next question is all those who went to college and
every month almost half of the room put
their hands up that they went to college and
now here they are. That shows you seeing that every
time now being on the executive board, the hands go up. So many of them
spend so many money going to college. The union route
(24:09):
is better because of the things that you get. And
as a woman they're equal pay for me. So they. The guy who's
6 foot 2, my partner Chip that I love so much,
he's 6 foot 4 something he was. And I'm
4 foot 11 and 7 eights and he gets the same salary
and I get the same salary. We do the same work and we're doing it
(24:31):
together. The apprenticeship is a path why I love it
that somebody could learn the science behind what they do.
Most people start off non union. When I got into that company I was non
union and then I got into the union. So the path of the
apprenticeship, what I love about it is learning the knowledge
behind what you do because you could be non union And
(24:54):
Andrew, you teach me every single thing and I just do it because
I just saw you do it like that and that's the way to do it.
But I really wouldn't know what is the science, the
mathematical equations behind that. And then with the
union you have access to a 401k plan,
a pension, very good healthcare. That's the big
(25:15):
difference. It's a great path if you can get in. And I know
as a union we can do a lot better Letting People in. But
I, I saw the five years of studying
what I did. I know why I do what I do. So when a customer
asks me why is the trap a certain height? That's what
people don't realize because of my amazing work is behind the wall.
(25:37):
There's a science and that's what you learn with the union
apprenticeship. And you get to earn while you learn and avoid that
college debt. It's a great path to be on. There's definitely a lot
of pros being in the union, but you did touch upon this, that there's only
a certain amount of seats. Right. So I'm picturing my, my extended
family member who wants to be an electrician and he's trying to do it in
(25:57):
California. He couldn't get it and he had to take a different job
in a solar company. He's going to reapply again. What would you suggest
that that happens if somebody applies, they just don't get in? Would you say to
keep going for it, like reapply? And I would say keep going. I
would say keep going. I know it's hard because you got to think about it.
Everything in life has a limited amount of space. And like when
(26:19):
we have our influx for kids who are trying to come in, there's a long
line for days and we only give out 200 applications
every classroom. The classroom can be unlimited size and it's
safety. So I always tell people, don't give up. And even
sometimes, what's sad too, sometimes people get in
and by their second or third year, it's tough because
(26:42):
people think it's easy. Not the elements you work in,
the personalities and in the school you have to
get a 70 average and you have to learn Pythagoras theorem and
volume. And so people drop out. It's
hard. Like some people might only make it to the third year. So when
somebody, someone journeys out, it's a huge
(27:03):
accomplishment. And I would say to anybody, just keep on trying.
I know as a, as a union and stuff like that, we can do a
lot better letting people in or maybe figure out a way to
do the classes differently because it's over five years because you
have to still work. So there's room for improvement. Like any
other company or any other industry. There's always room
(27:26):
for improvement. But I would still choose the union
path over any other any day because I was able
to. I grew up in Trinidad and Tobago, extremely poor
and to have the lifestyle that I like to say is a soft girl
lifestyle now and the diverse things that I have and the access to the things
that I have. None of that would be possible if I wasn't making
(27:48):
a union salary. And that's just the facts. Yeah, look, it's
the hard work that you put in and the work that you've done is paid
off over time. Takes time to build. And that's what kids need to learn, is
that it's not instant gratification, it's delayed gratification.
It might take a handful of years to get to where you want to. This
is not easy work. And again, I was just using example of my
(28:10):
extended family member. Like, you know, he was telling me what he needs to study.
Like, it's not easy stuff. It's not. Sometimes
people equate that you're in the trades so you. You're not higher education.
I'm only using that as an example that I hear. It's
not like that at all. You need to learn math and like, really complex stuff
that you need to learn. I wish I was close to where I could go
(28:31):
get my books, some of my books that I have from school or even when
I had to study the plumbing code to get the city job that I have.
It's like a Bible. You should see that book. It's no
joke. And electricians are even worse. Their code is even bigger than
ours. It's like four Bibles put together. It is not
what you think. One of the myths I want to debunk.
(28:52):
People assume that people choose the trades because they
wasn't smart enough to go to college. That is a lie. Because
every single one of you listening to Andrew and I's and my
voice right now, you use buildings that we
built and you trust us that our mathematical
engineering, all the things that we did worked out great.
(29:15):
So you had to be smart to build these things that you guys use on
a daily basis. So it's not because we wasn't smart enough for
college. It's because we were smart enough not to go to college
as is itself and get that debt. Exactly. And that's a great way
to put it. Like, college is not for everybody. The trades is
not for everybody. But I only feel that if you have that
(29:37):
mechanical ability, if you have that technical spark and you're going through
school, there should be a guidance counselor who would sit
with you and say, hey, like, you know, you are good with your
hands. Maybe consider a trades path. It can't just be college, college,
college, college. And there should be an option for the trades. And
hopefully that conversation that's happening in schools it's
(29:59):
not like kids are taking shop class today. A lot of those shop classes were
taken out, so they don't have that ability. Some people are going into trades
because they have family members that have gone into the trades or they know
somebody's in the trades. But I think we need to do a better job when
it comes to career expiration into the trades. Overall,
I wanted to shift over to giving back to your
(30:20):
community. And you're doing that really through a foundation called Tools and
Tiaras. Can you talk a little bit about how that program works
and how you're really changing the game, making an impact? I started
Tools and Tarot because I wish I had learned the
empowerment that I feel from being a plumber. When I was a little girl,
I had it, and then we lost it. So at Tools and Tears, we have
(30:42):
free monthly workshops for girls in careers
in steam. They learn electrical,
plumbing, welding, auto mechanic, architecture,
bricklaying, welding. So
those are the skills that they use with their hands. Right. We do that in
monthly workshops and our summer camp. And then we also teach them
(31:04):
life skills like public speaking, self defense,
financial literacy, activism, to be part of the community
and help. So that's what we do. And the reason why I did it, I
wanted kids to grow up respecting the skill trades and the
people that they see. And we've seen that the girls really, really
take to it and want to do those careers. So we just
(31:27):
expose them to amazing women within these industries. So we don't
have any male teachers. I have men who help us. I
call them Malays, and they help us in the back and give us
whatever we need. But I want girls to envision themselves in
the role. So meeting a female plumber for the first time changes their
mind. Meeting an architect for the first time. One of our girls is
(31:50):
going to be a pilot. She met a female pilot from JetBlue that we introduced
her to that sparked her interest in being a pilot. Now she
went to aviation school, high school. She's going to become a pilot.
You know, since I started, we started to see the first set of girls because
we start really young. I start really young. One of the first people,
six years old, I put tools in their hands, whether it be a welding
(32:13):
torch, a drill, a hammer,
and they love it. So that's the core essence of our program,
is just to get girls touching tools sooner,
earlier, thereby sparking their interest within
careers and also mostly empowerment and
knowing if they never took this path, they will always be an ally
(32:36):
for our industry. I'm a big believer the earlier
you can get tools into kids hands under supervision,
you know, the better. So they get used to wanting to work with their hands
and they are giving back to the community. For women who have
never touched a tool or power tool, you know, a young age
and the percentage now goes up that they may go
(32:58):
into a trade, you know, I don't know if you know of
a teacher out there. His name is Edvin Jarrett, he's out of Pennsylvania
and he works for a school. He's doing wonderful things in a school where
he's teaching kids at a young age. And they have blowtorches and they're running around
and then I always see him live on Instagram. There's also
a woman by the name of Mary Gaffney who's on our foundation called the
(33:21):
SkilledRays Advisory Council and she runs the
Mywic, it's a women in construction. She's got a camp where she takes about
80 women and they go through the program over the summer. They get free
tools and work boots and some of the women have come out and
girls have come out and they've gone into the trade. So it's wonderful what you're
doing and I love these programs because that's how you get the hearts of the
(33:43):
kids at an early age.
Now, the tools of the trade. In every
episode, we always ask our guest a tools of the trade.
What's one piece or career advice you can give a
young woman wanting to get into the plumbing trade? What would you
(34:04):
say to her? I would say, first of all, really,
really make sure you want to do it because it's one of the tough trades,
physically and mentally. And if you check all of those
boxes and you say, yeah, I still want to do it, believe in
yourself. You can do it. Hard days are going to come,
but I want you to remember your why and your why
(34:26):
will keep you going. When days get difficult, give it a
shot. Don't be afraid. You have all that you need. That's what I
would tell her. That is great advice. You know, again, going back
to your journey and what you went through and how successful
you've become and being in the union, being in New York
City, pushing against all that with all the men
(34:49):
on the job site, you came through that and it's possible.
So thank you for what you do and you impact many people's
lives, you know, young and old. So thank you for what you
do. Thank you. Likewise, Yu. It's my honor and privilege to
do what I do. And I think it's incumbent on all of
us, when we learn, we give and when we have knowledge,
(35:12):
we teach. We're just supposed to do that. So it's an honor and a
privilege. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to share my story.
If people want to find out more information about you website or social
media, where do they go to find you? Just google my name right? It's easy.
I love being having an unusual name Julian Cassidy but tools and
tarot we on all the platforms, LinkedIn, Instagram,
(35:35):
Facebook, TikTok. You can find us and
you can see what we do in and if you believe in what we're doing,
just support us and show the girls some love. That's
great stuff. Definitely check out Judah Lynn's stuff. She's doing great things out there. Thank
you so much for being on the show today. No, thank you for having me
and. Thank you to our listeners. If you want more valuable insights and trades related
(35:56):
information, head over to andrewbrown.net and join our Trades
Movement newsletter where we advocate for the trades, share inspirational
stories, provide resources and you join a passionate
trades community. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never
miss another episode. We'll see you next time.
(36:16):
Thanks for listening to the Lost Art of the Skilled Trades. Visit
us@AndrewBrown.net for more resources and tips.
Join us next time for real stories and meaningful initiatives
as we celebrate our men and women in the skilled trades and shape
the future together.
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