July 28, 2024 • 48 mins
How does an actor from a small country make it to the international market? Do you really have to live in the big cities in order to make it?
Tune in to our conversation with Ruben Francq, a Belgium-based actor and acting coach, who shares his journey. From teaching to acting in commercials, films, and series, Ruben reveals the challenges he faced and the strategies he used. Learn how self-tape auditions have revolutionised the industry and the crucial role his dedicated agent played in building a successful acting career.
Ruben worked on international sets, and talks about the cultural contrasts between American positivity and Belgian modesty as he recounts one of his major film experiences. Embracing compliments from his American colleagues transformed his confidence and performance.
Additionally, get tips on how to prepare for auditions with minimal information, focusing on script analysis, and making every small role count. Ruben shares valuable insights on navigating auditions and the art of standing out while staying true to the text.
Ruben also discusses the hurdles faced by actors who didn't follow the traditional drama school path and the significance of working on student films. Learn how creating your own opportunities and diversifying your identity beyond acting can provide financial stability and emotional balance.
Guest's Social Media:
https://www.facebook.com/ruben.francq
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast, where
we talk about intuition andreally surfing on this roller
coaster that life is about.
We talk to artists and athletes, and today I have Ruben Frank
as a guest.
Hi, Ruben.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi, cindy, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
So, Ruben, you're an actor and an acting coach.
Please tell us more about whatyou do right now and how you got
there as an actor, as an actingcoach.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So when I was young I wanted to pursue acting fully,
but I was raised in a veryflourished household and they
were like do something real.
So I became an actual teacherfirst.
So I taught English and PE.
Then I decided to actuallypursue acting.
I did commercials and whatnot.
Then I started getting moretraining, not in drama school
(00:44):
school, but workshops withcertified teachers who are
literally experts in their field, and then that's how the ball
sort of got rolling.
And then I got cast in shows andshort films and I said
commercials and at some point Irealized that I had a very
outspoken opinion about actingand I wanted to sort of, um, I
(01:05):
want to teach that idea that Ihad about it to other aspiring
actresses.
That's how I got into theacting coaching, acting teaching
business, which is also a funway to keep the acting going
when you're not having anyauditions or bookings, or
because you're always justworking on the crafts maybe not
yourself, but you're alwaysinvolved with it.
So that's what really, uh,draws me to to that place.
(01:26):
And also I like to help people.
I really do love working withpeople and help people achieve
their dreams and goals.
If I can be just a little partof that puzzle.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, so so rewarding so, ruben, you are a bel-based
actor, but you workinternationally, and today we're
really going to focus on whatit means to build an acting
career when we are living in asmall country, or maybe not the
main city, but how we can stillnavigate the industry and even
(01:59):
go internationally, even thoughwe might not be in the hot spot.
So how do you navigate that,living in Belgium and still
working internationally in theUK and so forth?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's hard in the sense that, like I said, we are
a small country.
The main bonus or the mainpositive or big drawing card
that we have is the fact that weare a country that's really in
the middle of everything, ifyou're really looking at the map
(02:30):
.
So center of Europe, there's alot of co-production coming in
from the UK and then US.
So there's a lot of opportunityif you speak the languages.
And I feel like that's for manyactors.
I know the challenge.
We have many great actors butwe have a small industry here in
Belgium.
So if you're not part of the, Idon't want to be that guy, but
if you're not part of the cliqueor the little group, it's very
(02:53):
hard to get jobs here in Belgium, whereas with the co-production
thing, I feel likeinternationally you have more of
a fair chance.
If your agent gets yourauditions, then again it's
pretty difficult because youhave to compete against native
speaking actors who also havehad training.
So it's really about for me it'sabout how many languages can
(03:16):
you speak really well, to thepoint that it sounds like you're
a native, because that's whatyou're going to be doing.
That's how I built my career.
I don't like to call it acareer, because I don't feel
like I don't know if Boston Cityor whatnot, but that's how I
managed it and that's how I gotmy agents because I have very
solid mastery of English accents, both American and British.
(03:38):
So that's mainly the thing,because it's tough in Belgium, I
feel like, especially becauseit's such in belgium, I feel
like especially because it's asmall market.
So to me it was a logical stepto go international because of
my languages.
But it's if you don't have that, it's hard for sure can.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Can you just clarify is your agent in belgium or is
the agent in the uk, or do youhave different agents?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
no, I have one agent.
My agent is based in belgium aswell, but he works
internationally and that's justbecause the industry has evolved
right.
It used to be that you had tohave an agent in london or la or
wherever, but now, withself-tape being the main thing,
doesn't really matter where youare.
The agent has to be connectedto people in the industry and I
feel like my age really is, andI've had this discussion with
(04:23):
people from spotlight andwhatever, and they all confirm
that alana, my agent, they lovehim.
He is such a hard worker, hereally fights for his talents,
for his actors, and he does allthe right things.
So I have a tremendous amountof faith in my agent and I feel
like he does a great job.
And yeah, it's justinternational castings.
I've got more internationalcastings through him than I've
got dutch or belgian castings inthe last two years.
(04:46):
So for me, I couldn't care lessif he isn't based in uk or us.
He gets the same calls anyways.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So so you're saying that there are two things,
especially coming from belgium,that really defined your success
or the possibilities of youopening doors is number one,
having a good agent and numbertwo, speaking the languages.
How many languages do you speak?
Which languages do you speak,and are you a native in those
languages or did you do any sortof accent reduction?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So I've worked in four languages.
Yeah, no, I mean, they countthem now as I've worked in Dutch
, english, french and German.
Yeah, so I've worked in Dutch,english, french and German.
Yeah, so I've worked in fourlanguages.
I'm fluent in Dutch and English.
French is okay.
If I have a script that I canwork on it with some accent
coaching.
I'm really solid.
Same with German, but German issketchy at best.
But I have worked a lot inGerman, actually because I have
(05:41):
an ear for actions.
I, because I have a near foractions, I get by.
I'm not a native speaker ineither of these languages,
except for Dutch, but I havetrained.
I did teacher training, rightso, and I studied English there.
So we had extensive amount oftraining there in the British
accent.
So that's where that came out.
My American accent is therebecause I have a near for sounds
(06:02):
.
I have a near for actions.
I grew up playing basketballand that's a very American sport
, so I would always watchYouTube channels, interviews and
basketball games and everythingwas American-American.
So that's where that sort ofhappened.
And I'm also this nerd wholikes to look up accents and
tries to mimic those and getgood at them.
(06:24):
So in many ways, I wasself-taught in terms of how
accents work except for theEnglish, the British one and now
I also teach people how to getthere, how to speak in a solid
RP British accent or sort of ageneral American one.
But I'm not a native speaker.
However, I do fool people everynow and then.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So I know that one of your recent highlights is that
you were casted in a featurefilm called Bonhoeffer, which is
an international production inthe UK.
Tell us more Like was there anysort of difficulties to
overcome to get casted for that?
Was it easy?
Was it a for that?
Was it easy?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Was it a smooth process?
Was it?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
like a rollercoaster.
Tell us more.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
That was an interesting process.
It was a co-production betweenIreland, uk, us, belgium, so a
lot of moving parts.
I got called in for an auditionto play a certain character.
They gave me a scene, but Ididn't know what I was
auditioning for.
I had no idea what it was.
I knew it was a movie, but Ididn't know who the director was
and didn't know what the storywas.
(07:29):
I just had to go on instinct,so I did.
This is one of the things that Iam passionate about as well as
an actor is seeing you studyscript analysis based on the
little things you have.
So I was able to piece togethera lot already.
Then I was in the waiting roomfor the audition.
I was in Brussels, I was in thewaiting room and I had no idea
who I was auditioning for.
(07:49):
I asked if people in the roomknew it, and they did know what
I was auditioning for and theytold me it was Forgotten Spy,
because I was the working titleat the time.
They later changed it toBonhoeffer.
I asked who the director wasand they said Dr Manicke.
And I was like who the hell isDr Manicke?
Like you don't know?
I'm like I don't know.
So I looked him up on IDB andhe is this huge American
(08:11):
director.
He worked with Tom Hanks.
He worked with, he wrote Sully,in which Tom Hanks plays the
captain, and he works with SeanPenn.
Sean Pendleton, you worked withsuch amazing actors.
I was like, oh shit.
So they gave me butterflies.
(08:31):
So I walked into the castingroom, did the casting for the
character that I worked for, butI did not On the spot.
The casting really gave me somemore lines to do for other
characters as well.
So that was tricky and ittaught me a thing or two.
It taught me to be quick on myfeet.
I'm blessed in the sense that Ilearn lines really fast.
(08:51):
I have an easy time picking uplines.
But it made me, as an actingteacher, shift folks a bit and
incorporate that element in myteaching as well, to prepare
actors to read quickly and toquickly pick up new texts or
unseen scripts that they justhave to do, because that's how
casting works.
(09:12):
Straight enough, because I wasbashing on in-person auditions.
That was not in the personaudition, no self-taught
required.
So the casting process was yeah, it was definitely interesting,
and then I got cast in it.
I had to go to spa for a coupleof days to shoot some scenes
there, and then I had to go toIreland for three days to finish
up the shoot.
It was really cool, one of mybiggest highlights, as you said
(09:35):
it so well, recently.
Even though it was a small part, it was just a small speaking
part my character is calledanother prisoner.
It wasn't that I had a big partin it, but that was definitely
cool.
I had my own trailer andeverything.
So it was just ah, this world.
Wow, that's wild to have yourown trailer.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So a question, because I have had the same.
I've had similar experiences asan actress, like doing
auditions for roles or biggerroles that I'm used to, and
sometimes I had informationabout who the director was and
stuff, and I did research.
I'm like, oh my gosh, this ishuge.
And then sometimes I had noidea what I was casting for.
(10:14):
And then I got the role and Igot on set and I had no idea
that I was actually like movingwith big people.
So when you were on set forBonhoeffer, now that you knew
that the people that wereinvolved were people with a lot
of experience and stuff, did youdo your research before or did
you just go on set with a veryinnocent, open heart and just
(10:37):
thinking I'm going in and that'sit?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I was so ignorant and so innocent because I knew it
was Todd Kraman, that's all Iknew.
I hadn't seen a call sheet yeteither, until the last day, uh.
But then you're focusing onyour scene and you have to shoot
and everything.
So you get the call sheet and Ijust check where I have to be
and who is who.
I didn't really look at, lookinto anything, I didn't really
do any research, I didn't reallyhave time for that with travel
(11:00):
and everything but.
But so I was very ignorant andvery innocent coming on set.
And then I got on set and, yeah,it blew me away, because you
have producers that are wearingMarvel and DC hats.
They were on those projects.
You had a DOP, john Mathewson,who had filmed Phantom of the
Opera, gladiator.
(11:21):
He was a goddamn DOP.
I was like what?
It totally blew me away.
And it was also my first timeworking with Americans on a
professional film set and thatwas interesting as well, because
, yeah, americans are verypositive people, but to the
point that they, as a Belgianbecause we're very modest, we
(11:42):
are very we don't like to bragthey will tell you how great you
are 10 times in a minute.
You know what I mean.
And it felt so forced.
It felt so fake at firstbecause we were not used to that
at all.
But then I spoke to thedirector's assistant.
She's also an actress in NewYork, she's also in Meisner or
(12:02):
whatever, and she explainedwhere that comes from.
She's like she explained thisway we are working on a multiple
million dollar project.
We don't cast people we don'tthink are really good.
So if we say you're good,you're, you're good.
That's the reason.
That's the entire reason why wechose you, because you are good
(12:23):
and having that explained to meand then having that experience
and how they treated you, itjust really liberates you.
You don't stress at all aboutanything.
You're not worried about yourlines, you're not worried about
am I good enough, am I right?
Because they give you all thatconfidence.
They give you so muchconfidence in the world.
They give you so muchconfidence in the world.
(12:45):
So, even though it was a verybig production the biggest one
I've had done at that point itfelt so easy and the director I
mean Todd was so nice.
Even though I was one of thesmaller parts, he went out of
his way to come and talk to me,have conversation, joke around
and then, when I had to shoot myscene.
Talk to me about the characterand how I saw it, how he wanted
(13:05):
to have it, and I just felt soat home.
And that's because of theAmerican approach, because of
the they just, they just loadyou up with confidence.
It's interesting, yeah, so thatwas, that was really cool.
But no, I was, I was a veryunaware of who was working on
that thing.
It was just this rollercoasterof oh, oh, that's a face, oh,
(13:25):
that's a face.
That's a face too.
Oh okay, it was wild.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So, yeah, that's funny first thing I want to
bounce back on is you said, likesomebody told you, look, we
only cast like good people here,and I think there is a power in
receiving a compliment, becausea lot of people might also
brush it off.
But actually the fact that youwere open and you were like,
yeah, I'm gonna receive this, sothat it, you know, it, fuels me
(13:49):
.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I think that's really a beautiful thing and I think,
as artists, you know, it'simportant that we do that yeah,
it's hard to do it though I'mreally bad at that still, I
think a lot of that has to dowith you're always your own
worst critic, uh, and you wantto be better and you always want
to be better.
So if people tell you thatyou're good, you tend to not
agree with them because you canbe better.
But it really helps to justaccept a compliment, as you said
(14:11):
it.
But a lot of that is ourFlemish background as well.
We don't typically do that.
We want to be modest, and a lotof times when people give you a
compliment and you accept acompliment, it might come across
as arrogance or rebellion, andthat's something we just don't
want to get across.
It's been a work in progress,for sure, the accepted
(14:33):
compliments, but yeah, in thatmoment it really helped.
But that's also just theAmerican way of doing it.
They'll tell you so manydifferent times, so many
different ways, that at somepoint you just can't help but
accept it.
It becomes, you know, they justtake it out of your hands in
many ways because they just keeptelling you this.
I mean, at some point I wasdoing something and Todd just
(14:56):
came by.
He looked at me, the directordid, and he was like you're a
childhood cat and he just walksoff these little things from the
director of that film.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
That just shields you with confidence, right, they're
socially cool, for sure.
And I want to go back to,obviously cat you know, getting
casted internationally andobviously sometimes there are
like really big people workingon that project and we just
didn't know them or they're justnot part of our circle because
obviously we might be networkedlocally or in our country or the
neighboring countries and notin other countries.
So you go into a casting youdon't know anything about the
(15:35):
director, the writer, maybe youknow the other actors.
How are you the best preparedin your opinion?
Is it through script analysis,just working with what you have?
Is it doing extra research?
Like now that you have thatexperience, like, what's your
take on it?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I'm a big text guy so I like to work off of
scriptysis a lot.
Even if you have just one pageof a C, you can find out so much
about what you're doing in thatC.
I'll give you an example.
(16:15):
I got cast not too long ago ina British TV series called
Bookish Small part.
They didn't really give me anyinformation to go off of at
first.
The only thing I knew was it'sin the 40s, it's london and it's
a crime thing.
That's all I knew.
My character is pretty small.
I got that the the lines isthree lines, literally three
lines, and I.
(16:35):
That was going to be the onlyscene that I had as well, but
with that little scene I wasable to deduce so many things
about the show that I was ableto put in the audition and I
think that's why I got the thepardon.
So I really believe that there'sso much on the page.
If you're willing to look, youknow how to look in that sense.
But this reminds me of um ellenpoe, for example, the writer.
(16:57):
He was a writer who was big onthe idea that every word on the
page has to propel the storyforward.
If it doesn't propel the storyforward, it doesn't have a place
on the page.
So in that sense, everythingthe writer has penned down has
meaning.
You just have to find it.
(17:17):
So that's one thing, but also,at the same time, you want to
have your own sort ofinterpretation to it, because
it's one thing to do with thewriter and the director.
You expect you to do buteverybody will do that and the
hard part is how do you standout?
Everybody's given the samegiven circumstance, everybody's
given the same material.
How do you stand out?
And that's really the hard part, I feel, about acting, because
(17:42):
acting isn't your job.
Your job as an actor isn't toact.
Your job as an actor is toaudition.
It's getting good at auditionsand then when you get the job,
that's playtime.
That's as reset, it's cool.
You just get to play around insandbox.
It's really auditioning.
So for me it's text analysisand when you know who the
director is, you can look upsome things.
But usually you have so littletime that I don't really focus
(18:06):
too much on that aspect.
I try to just work with thescene, the lines and what is the
situation that we're having toplay.
That's what I tend to do.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I'd love to bounce back on that.
First of all, I absolutely lovewhat you said.
Working as an actor is actuallyauditioning, is getting the job
(18:36):
, and then, once you've got thejob, it's playtime.
And it's so true.
That's probably the easiestpart, because you can just dive
in and you have time to reallyexpand and let your creativity
take the lead.
I also want to bounce back onthe fact that you had three
lines, because I think that, asactors, I think there was a bit
of a challenge is that when wego to an acting school or we
train in acting, we receive longscenes and so in that scene
there is an arc and yourcharacter is changing, and then
when you audition for the firstroles, you audition it's small
roles and you have literally two, three lines and you're like
(19:00):
how am I?
you're like, how am I gonna?
How am I gonna find an arc inthese two or three lines?
What are your tips, your toptips for these?
You know, because we're gonnado probably a hundred auditions
because before we land like abig role, right that type.
What are your top tips foractors?
You have two, three, four linesto make the most of it yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So the coastal roles, as they're called, are the ones
that are going to at first beyour bread and butter.
Sadly, you have to do them.
It's the hierarchy of theindustry.
You just have to work your wayup and sometimes you get lucky.
Some people get cast off thestreet into big roles.
That is one of the million thatdoesn't happen a lot, sadly.
(19:41):
What I would tend to do, or whatI always tell people, is find
the situation you're in.
If you can convincingly dowhat's on the page, really do
what's on the page in the rightsetting and circumstance, you
will be believable.
So that's number one.
Find out what you're doing,where you're doing it, why
you're doing it as a character.
Because to me, a lot of peoplefocus on character way too much.
(20:04):
They want to make the characterstand out, but in an audition
they only had You've seen theaudition, let's say, two days
before the deadline.
In those two days you also haveother things to do.
You have work to do.
No way that in these two daysyou're going to find a character
doesn't happen.
Character is is born overmonths.
(20:27):
So I I always say don't focuson character, just make sure you
know what you have to do, dothat really so, if, if you
really do something on set or onscreen or on whatever you're
believable.
So that's number one.
Now number two find the nuances.
As I mentioned about theaudition that I did, I just did.
I read through the lines.
(20:47):
I knew sort of the the timethey were playing in it was the
40s in london.
I had an idea and I knew thatwas interesting, because in the
40s in london London, I can'treally say too much about it yet
, but in that time in the 40s inLondon that was very illegal
(21:08):
and he's working with the cops.
So that gave the scene somelife, some drama, some dramatic
tension, because it's illegaland he's working with the cops.
That was my take on it.
I found that and if you havewhat you're doing and you're
making that real and then youadd that top layer of intrigue,
that's going to make you standout, I feel like you want to
(21:29):
have your character feel likeyou're a real person.
That's the idea, because yourcharacter, even though it's only
three lines and they walk inthe scene, they have that moment
and they walk out.
They've done things before thatscene, they're going to do
things after that scene.
You want to have that idea.
You want to have that feelingof oh, this person has something
to do and they just happen tohave a scene with this person
(21:49):
now, awesome, great advice.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Thank you I try.
I want to go back a little bitin what you said previously
about obviously working, beingbased in Belgium and being a
working actor.
You said there are some cliquesand I feel the sense of cliques
do exist and are very presentin small cities, small countries
(22:13):
where the industry might besmaller.
What has been some networkingtips that have worked for you to
sort of break the eyes or opendoors?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I'm the worst person to ask because I am so bad at
networking.
It's, I mean, it's ludicrousand people are always surprised.
I'm a very sociable guy.
I really get along withpractically anybody.
I have no problem talking topeople.
I just hate networking.
And the reason why is this?
Anytime you go to a networkingevent, I just can't shake the
feeling that it's fake.
So let's say, for example,we're in a networking event,
(22:44):
right, I'm a director.
Hypothetically, I know thatyou're an actor.
You're gonna approach me, notbecause you like me that might
be true because you needsomething out of me.
And that idea of I needsomething out of you, so I'm
gonna talk to you, i't like that.
That's why I'm really bad atnetworking.
I have to get better at it,especially in a small country
(23:05):
like Belgium, because that'sreally how you get ahead in the
local market and community here,because I don't like to talk
about the clique or whatever.
But there are these actors andthey're family actors.
That's something I want to makevery clear.
They're great, but they're theones who get all the jobs,
because of many things, manydifferent reasons.
(23:27):
But it's really hard to crackthat sort of group to get in
there, mainly also because Ididn't go to drama school.
So I'm not, I didn't come fromthe traditional sort of channels
, I just forged my own path, orI'm doing that, and is that?
That's also harder becausetypically casting directors here
in belgium, I feel they go toshowcases the bachelor students
(23:49):
at casco, whatever they performtheir, their final, their exam,
and casting directors go andcheck that out.
Obviously because these peoplehave been working hard for three
or four years.
You, they want to get into theindustry, they want to work.
It's almost ludicrous to be madabout that.
Of course I want them to work.
They've worked their asses offfor three years studying their
(24:10):
asses off.
Of course they should work, butthese casting directors they
also don't have that much timeso they won't say I'm doing a
play, the chances of them comingto watch my play versus the
showcase of this drama school.
I don't really have to explainthat they're not going to show
(24:30):
and that's hard.
It's really hard to get noticed,to get on the radar, because as
an artist you have to believethat you're good and I do think
I am a solid actor.
You still have so much toimprove upon, sure, but I feel
like I'm competent, but it'shard to be able to show that,
especially then.
You know this is a.
You know have three lines makesit even harder to showcase your
(24:51):
talent or your capabilities.
So that's something I reallystruggle with and I know
networking should be something Ireally have to focus on more.
I know I should go to filmfestivals more talks, to panels
too.
I tend to network best on set.
When I do have a job or I'mdoing a cast on something, I
(25:16):
just want to leave a goodimpression to the people on set
the director, but also, mostimportantly, I feel like, the
people who are part of the crewin the less glamorous sort of
position.
So not the director, not theDOP, the producers, people who
work on set, work on catering,the guys who do the lights sound
guys who work on catering, theguys who do the lights sound
(25:39):
guys.
I want to have a veryprofessional and likable sort of
image when I leave set.
That's what I want them toremember me by.
And student films, as cliche asthat sounds, the young students
of today are the David Lynch'sof tomorrow If they remember how
(26:01):
nice you were to them byhelping them out and being
professional, being flexible andbeing just a nice person to
work with and then you were ableto perform relatively well.
They will remember that andthat's also how I get.
That's why I keep doing it aswell.
You never know.
One of these seeds that you'rewatering as students are.
(26:21):
I can just call them seeds.
One of these seeds might justblossom into this big-ass tree,
and if I can be on one of thesebranches, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And you said something really important that
you actually network when youare on set, because I think
sometimes we see our networkingopportunities only as the
festivals we go to those.
You know those panels, those.
You know what is beingadvertised as networking, but
actually it's while you're onthe job, while you're taking
class, like just being in theindustry, and then people see
(26:53):
you shine because, at the end ofthe day, here you are
expressing your creativity andthat's where you network as well
yeah, I totally agree because,as I said, I feel like these
network events are fake as hellbecause everybody is trying to
project an image of how theywant to be perceived, but on set
, you are the realest you as anactor.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
You have to be so vulnerable and so real on set
because that's the only wayyou're gonna you're gonna
perform and you're gonna yougoing to portray a person that
we don't believe in.
So you have to be vulnerableand that's when your true self
shines through.
But that's why I like tonetwork on sets, because
everybody is their true selves.
No one's pretending to besomeone they're not.
(27:37):
It's pretty honest.
That's why I prefer that.
But that's also a catch-22.
It's like one of these thingsyou have to have experience to
get work, but then you also haveto work to get experience, and
so in order to get on sets, tonetwork on sets, you have to
have worked.
So that's the hard part as wellGetting on set, getting a job,
(28:00):
getting booked.
That's why auditioning is thejob.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Precisely, but also, like you said, even being on set
with some students.
You're not working like, you'renot being paid per se, but
you're still doing the work andit's still an opportunity to
network, because they are thedirectors of tomorrow, the
writers of tomorrow, the DOPs oftomorrow.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Exactly, and I've also worked with people in the
past that I'm now collaboratingwith as professionals.
I'm also writing multiplefiction projects at the moment
and the people I'm working with,these contacts, all came to be
on set.
A writer that I met in anaudition room I didn't get the
part there were students writingon that film but I remembered
her writing, I thought it wasgreat.
(28:39):
I ran into her and I was likeyo, maybe we should write
something.
The director I'm writing withTobias Zeru, a wonderful young
creative.
I worked with him on acommercial years ago and then we
bumped into each other and like, hey, maybe we should grab a
coffee, and then that sort ofstarted happening.
(29:00):
So it's the connections thatI've made on set that are
helping me now, more than theconnections I've made on film
festivals or inserts.
As you said, it's a funnybusiness where we perceive
networking as the events and weforget to network on the day
that we actually get to work.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Let's move on to some of the moments that have really
impacted your journey.
You told me that you read abook the Intent to Live.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
So tell me how it changed your life.
So the book the Intent to Livewas recommended to me by Stephen
Stephen Bidmeier.
He's a Meisner expert.
He is maybe one of the teachersthat has impacted me the most
in my work and he recommended methis book, the Intent to Live,
by Larry Moss.
Larry Moss is an acting coachin my work and he recommended me
this book, the Intensity ofLife, by Larry Moss.
Larry Moss is an acting coachin the US.
He's worked on.
(29:44):
He's worked on the Great Mile,for example.
He helped create John Cofiewith the actor, and then he's
and the writer of that book.
He worked where he studied underMeisner, adler, strasberg,
hagen.
He studied under all the greatswhen they were still alive.
So he had this unique positionin a sense that he was able to
(30:10):
sort of distill his own ideabased on all these ideas of the
great American masters.
And then he wrote a book and Iread that book and I just fell
in love with it because itreally affirmed or confirmed a
lot of my own ideas about acting.
It's a great book.
I just can't get over it, howgreat it is and a lot of my
(30:33):
ideas on how acting should beapproached.
I learned from steven.
I learned from that book, butalso from Michael Magota, of
course, but the idea that textis everything, the script is
everything and when you are indoubt and struggle you have to
go back to the text.
The text is going to inform youon everything.
That is what I really.
That book hammered that home inmy brain for sure.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Tell me about one of your moments where you were
hitting a low in terms of fears,doubt, but you were hitting a
low and you were able toovercome that as an actor that's
hard because I feel likethere's always lows because it's
such a scary business.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Okay, so I was doing a lot of commercial work.
Two years ago I was cast as thereturning returning face of a
dutch telecom company called kpn.
I was doing a lot of work and Ithink I shot five commercials
in one year, commercially, paida lot of money.
So I was on high.
Then the year after I got nextto no castings.
(31:35):
Auditioning, auditioning kept.
I kept receiving a no, theywere rejecting me for all sorts
of reasons and then also thecommercials that I was doing the
year before weren't happeninganymore.
So I hit a real big low and Ihad to really start thinking.
I was already self-employed atthat time.
(31:56):
I was a freelance actor, thatwas the only thing I was doing
that and teaching as well.
But everything was acting.
All my eggs were in one basket.
What got me out of that was Iremember my psychologist, my
therapist.
She told me that I had to get ahobby, because my entire
identity was formed aroundacting.
Acting was bad, this person wasbad.
(32:19):
I was really struggling withthat.
I went and pursued differentthings so I got into personal
training.
So I'm also now a personaltrainer and that's helped me get
some clarity.
There's more to life than justacting.
So I started doing that as well.
I started working with my acting.
I mean, if I went with myaction coaching, I realized that
(32:40):
waiting for that phone call asan actor is the stupidest thing
you can do.
So I decided maybe I shouldwrite my own stuff.
And then I started writing, um,and that's how I got out of
that low, because I had a bitmore financial instability,
because I was doing differentjobs as well, but also I was
always working creatively on myown stuff.
(33:03):
I was talking about, I waswriting about things that
mattered to me in a way that Icould also be an actor in those
projects if they ever get made.
Fast forward a couple of monthsto where we are now and these
three projects that we'rewriting are.
We're pitching them toproduction companies.
That's really cool.
It's pretty exciting as well.
(33:24):
So if I had to put one sort ofsentence on it, how I got out of
that low is by creating andbeing active.
Um, and remembering life isn'tabout the job.
The job is part of your life.
It feels like your life and tome it really is a big part of my
(33:45):
life, because acting is such aI always judge it definitely say
acting is not a job orprofession, it's a lifestyle,
and it was hard for me to sortof add things to that life that
were not acting and um, that's,that's sort of how I got out of
my low.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
That makes sense yeah , absolutely so, if I.
If I could summarize it, it'sreally number one is taking the
bull by the horns, is creatingyour own opportunities.
That's where you we really feelempowered.
Even if there are no's that arecoming on one side, we're still
making the dream happen throughour, through our own projects,
even though we do need patience,because making a film takes a
(34:24):
hell of a lot of time.
But then I would love to talkabout this identity thing,
because that is something Ithink a lot of artists can
relate to.
I certainly can.
I felt my whole identity wasI'm an artist and, basically
rewinding, a few years ago I hada massive health crisis.
(34:45):
I got into fitness and all of asudden, this fitness element of
me started to express herselfand I had an identity crisis
because I didn't want people toperceive me as anything else but
an artist.
And I had to kind of break freeof that and say you know what?
I am an artist, but I'm so muchmore.
(35:06):
And if you cannot, you know,see that my box is getting
bigger.
You're missing out on lifebecause I'm not changing box.
It's not because all of asudden I add fitness to my
things that I become a fitnessinstructor.
It's like I am an artist and somuch more.
But it was a crisis to gothrough that and accept it.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
For sure, for sure.
I've had a similar phase inlife Because I always jokingly
say I don't have hobbies, I haveobsessions.
So if I do something, I becomea nut.
There's no even ground, there'sno middle ground or whatever.
No, it's either do or don't,and if you do it, really batshit
crazy.
(35:48):
Everything has to be dialed inor I don't do it at all.
I really understand what you'resaying and I had the same
crisis, but in that sense it'slike you said, you're not
changing boxes.
You're saying, and I had thesame sort of crisis, but in that
sense, uh, it's like you said,you're not changing boxes,
you're just building a biggerbox.
If people don't see that, theyshould step back a couple steps
to see the bigger picture.
(36:08):
Um, because you can be so many,so many things and I feel like,
as an artist, you, the more youdo in life, the more
experiences you have, the betteryour craft is going to be
eventually.
And for me personally, forexample, because I was about
identity and casting and stuffthis has something to do with
(36:30):
that.
I was always considered for thehandsome guy roles, especially
when I was a little younger andhad a bit more hair.
I was always considered for thehandsome guy role.
And then I also had thatidentity crisis actually,
because at that point because Iwas also doing modeling I felt
like I wasn't being seen as anactor, I was being seen as a
(36:54):
pretty face.
So I had a really big crisisthere where I was really
rebellious and I would almost Iwould almost try my best to not
get tasked in those parts, justto make a point.
I was going out of my way toget these other sort of roles
which no one was going to giveme because I was just starting
(37:16):
out.
And then I had to learn andaccept that this was also part
of who I was and take that andown it, because those are the
parts I was going to lose.
And that's how I got intofitness as well.
I was like, okay, you know whatI'm gonna, I'm gonna own this
part of me.
Okay, I'm a handsome guy, I'mgonna own this, I'm gonna be
that because that's also what Iam, I defined by this.
(37:37):
Only, no, give me so much more.
But this is also part of myidentity.
And then I started being intofitness because I thought that
casting wise if they're castingfor the handsome guy, look,
because I thought thatcasting-wise, if they're casting
for the handsome guy, look, Ineed to look that part.
So I went into fitness.
First, I hated it.
I wasn't a basketball playerand I, just, as a field sport
(37:58):
guy, you just don't like the gym.
That's an unwritten rule,apparently it is, but then I
fell in love with that and then,what do you know?
I got obsessed so, and thenthat came along.
Am I an actor or am I a PT?
No, fucking them both.
So I feel like you don't want tolimit yourself.
(38:19):
However, because there's alsothe other side of that coin,
where you, I feel like,sometimes as creatives and this
is something I struggle with attimes as well because you're so
interested in many differentthings, you tend to lose focus
on one thing.
Because you have all thesedifferent things happening, all
these little endeavors, and youend up with so many different
(38:43):
things at the same time that youhave to focus on that, you
can't really commit to one thingfully.
So that's also something thatI'm learning.
Yes, it's okay to do manydifferent things, but the thing
that you feed time and energy isthe thing that will grow.
So I have to also think what ismy main goal?
Is my main goal being a reallygood PT and an athlete or
(39:04):
whatever?
Yeah, that's a goal, but whatis the main goal, the main goal
being a really good PT and anathlete or whatever?
Yeah, and that's a goal, butwhat is the main goal?
The main goal is still acting.
So that's always something youhave to remind yourself of.
And I'm writing and I feel likeI'm becoming a writer as well.
That is something that'shappening.
We want gold.
You want to be a writer?
No, to be creative, yes, butwhat's the end goal?
(39:26):
To get writer?
No, to be creative, yes, butwas the end goal to get to play
a character in these things?
So I always try to do manythings, but I always try to make
sure they all come back to themain, to the line, um, to the
spine of my, of my existence,which is active I can relate to
it so much.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Like same thing.
I have obsessions.
So, for example, when I startedkrav maga, the normal person
would do four hours, six hours aweek.
I went in and did 17 hours aweek.
So I just dive in and I alsohave to remind myself, cindy,
why are you doing it for?
Oh, yeah, because you want tobe an action actress and it's
(40:04):
for your screen fighting skills.
So it all goes into the rightdirection.
But it is true, we have to sortof you know, our outside
experiences nourish us as actors, but we also have to remember,
okay, what is my main directionhere, because otherwise we get
lost in the forest, kind ofthing absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
But also I wanted to pick in.
Sorry that I interrupted youthere, so sorry, but about the
identity crisis, why I feel like?
Because you're a dancer andactress, I'm an actor.
Why?
Because you hear this identitycrisis thing more with dancers
and actors, people who are onstage.
Because I don't think amusician has their instrument
and let's say, for example, I'mplaying a piano and the piano is
(40:44):
really out of tune.
I can then say, ah shit, thispiano is out of tune.
I should really play this.
But as a dancer, as a performingartist, where your body is your
instrument, you have nothing tohide behind.
You are the instrument.
If you are out of tune, yourperformance sucks, and if that
sucks, you suck.
So we are so directly connectedto the craft, because it's our
(41:09):
bodies, that we immediatelybecome one with that, and that's
a beautiful thing.
Also a dangerous thing, becauseif everything is going great,
wow.
If it's not going so great,what's the problem?
You are a problem, not theinstrument.
No, you are.
There is no defense mechanism.
There is no shield in placelike a piano or violin or flute
(41:33):
or whatever.
It's you, and that's a crazy.
That's a scary thought as wellI have never thought of that.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
and that is so true because, yeah, as a dancer, as
an actor, we are the instrument,we are what is being used for
creative expression.
So, ruben, I want to go back tothe fact that you are a Meisner
teacher.
You have also a background asan actor in method acting, but I
know you also talked to meabout the fact that you have a
personal take on the craft ofacting.
(42:00):
Tell us more.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I already alluded to it.
I feel like there's an overfocus on character, especially
early on in auditions.
I believe truly this is a Miserprinciple.
The definition of actingaccording to Miser and Stephen
Didmire changed a little bit isacting is really doing under
given imaginary circumstances,very similar to what
(42:25):
Stanislavski said.
So the idea that you have toreally do in the given imaginary
circumstance is going to leadto believable emotions and
whatever.
That's what I really gel with,because if you look, if you
think of it, this is my idea ifyou have a script, you have to
play this character or whatever.
Let's say, I have to play Tomand Tom says these and these
(42:49):
things, tom does these and thesethings and Tom has had that
background and has gone throughthese and these things in his
life and X, y, z, all theseparameters.
If I fully understand that andif I do my research, if I do my
script analysis and I move inthe scenes in these situations
knowing what I know about Tom,ruben does not exist anymore in
(43:11):
that scenario.
Of course it's going to bethere because I'm the instrument
, everything flows through me,but the character is born out of
actor and script together inthat moment, in that situation,
because I would ask Tom, I'mgoing to say things that Ruben
would never say.
I'm going to say things thatRuben would never say.
I'm going to do things thatRuben would never do.
(43:31):
So I feel like everything's onthe page, always you just have
to look deeper.
One of the things I always askbecause I'm a big nut on script
analysis the main question Ialways ask is a one-word
question is why?
The way I teach my studentsabout text analysis, I'm going
to ask them why.
They give me an answer.
(43:51):
I'm going to say why?
Another answer, why I just keepasking them?
Because they need to have morewhys, they need to have more
reasons.
The more reasons you can, themore you can peel off.
It's like an onion, right?
There's so many layers.
You have to peel off all thelayers to get to the core thing,
to get to the core of the scene, and that's what that does, and
that's through that work,through the peeling back of all
(44:12):
these layers, you find thecharacter automatically.
You don't have to do anything,unless, of course, you have a
character which has a veryspecific, um, physicality to
them, sure, you have to findthat, but if it's a person, just
a Tom, or just a son of someoneelse and whatever hasn't been
(44:32):
in a car crash.
I know all these actors who aregoing to.
They're going out of their wayto find their physicality, but
then they forget they have linesand they forget why they're
doing what they're doing.
I feel like there a why they'redoing what they're doing.
I feel like a lot of people doit the wrong way around, in my
humble opinion.
I feel like text is everything.
That's my aggressive take on iton one side.
(44:55):
The other side is, even thoughyou have three lines, michael
Margota, one of the actingcoaches that I've worked with a
lot.
He would say this to us God isdead, media is gone now and
artists are the angels, andangels are storytellers.
(45:19):
They deliver the message.
They deliver God's message tothe people.
So an actor and I always getgoosebumps when I say that
actors are delivering a message.
It's up to you to find thatmessage.
And what is that message?
I feel like and this is why I'mso passionate about it I feel
like stories are there to changepeople's minds or add to the
(45:47):
human experience.
I feel like stories should leadto conversation.
It's the way we get people toconnect, especially nowadays,
where if you're not with me,you're against me, kind of thing
is happening.
We've lost nuance, we've lostthe middle ground, the gray area
, and I want to.
I feel like that's what yourgoal should be Find the deeper
(46:11):
meaning in everything you do tospark conversation, spark
progressive conversation.
I feel like that should betaught more, because I still
feel a lot of people who getinto acting want to get famous
Because they like the idea ofbeing an actor and they like to
be on film and and that's athat's a fair reason.
(46:32):
I'm not judging anybody.
I feel like you can get intoacting for whatever reason you
want, but the, the need that youhave for telling stories is
what's going to keep you in theindustry, even when it's going
bad or even when you don't havea job for two years, and I feel
like it's that idea, thatphilosophy of telling stories,
(46:53):
of delivering messages to people.
That's my sort of very dogmatictake on acting.
That's my aggressive take on it.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
I feel like even me.
It really hits me like that is,yeah, it's the need of telling
stories, the need, yeah, to adda little bit of transformation
into the world or or add tohealthy debates.
That's why we're doing it for,and that's what keeps us in the
industry, whether we receiveno's for many years, whether
things are crumbling down or not.
So thank you so much forsharing that, ruben.
(47:25):
If people want to work with youas an actor or as a coach,
where can they find you?
On social media.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Oh sure, social media .
That's the thing.
I quit social media because itwas very unhealthy for me, so
that's going to be hard, but ifthey want to work, with me as an
actor.
They can call my agent AlainL'Equitin, the wonderful, dear
Alain L'Equitin, at Lucky StarInternational Talent Agency.
As an acting coach, I work forACT Academy.
We work in the weekends toprovide services for anybody who
(47:53):
isn't in a position to go todrama school.
It's a camera-based tool, so ifyou want to work with me in
that capacity, that's where youcan find me.
Then you can find me onFacebook at Ruben Frank, and you
can always shoot me a messagethere.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Thank you so much, ruben, for this super powerful
chat.
Thank you, thank you forlistening to the Loud Whisper
Takeover podcast and we'll seeyou in the next episode.
Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast, where
we talk about intuition andreally surfing on this roller
coaster that life is about.
We talk to artists and athletes, and today I have Ruben Frank
as a guest.
Hi, Ruben.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi, cindy, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
So, Ruben, you're an actor and an acting coach.
Please tell us more about whatyou do right now and how you got
there as an actor, as an actingcoach.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So when I was young I wanted to pursue acting fully,
but I was raised in a veryflourished household and they
were like do something real.
So I became an actual teacherfirst.
So I taught English and PE.
Then I decided to actuallypursue acting.
I did commercials and whatnot.
Then I started getting moretraining, not in drama school
(00:44):
school, but workshops withcertified teachers who are
literally experts in their field, and then that's how the ball
sort of got rolling.
And then I got cast in shows andshort films and I said
commercials and at some point Irealized that I had a very
outspoken opinion about actingand I wanted to sort of, um, I
(01:05):
want to teach that idea that Ihad about it to other aspiring
actresses.
That's how I got into theacting coaching, acting teaching
business, which is also a funway to keep the acting going
when you're not having anyauditions or bookings, or
because you're always justworking on the crafts maybe not
yourself, but you're alwaysinvolved with it.
So that's what really, uh,draws me to to that place.
(01:26):
And also I like to help people.
I really do love working withpeople and help people achieve
their dreams and goals.
If I can be just a little partof that puzzle.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, so so rewarding so, ruben, you are a bel-based
actor, but you workinternationally, and today we're
really going to focus on whatit means to build an acting
career when we are living in asmall country, or maybe not the
main city, but how we can stillnavigate the industry and even
(01:59):
go internationally, even thoughwe might not be in the hot spot.
So how do you navigate that,living in Belgium and still
working internationally in theUK and so forth?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's hard in the sense that, like I said, we are
a small country.
The main bonus or the mainpositive or big drawing card
that we have is the fact that weare a country that's really in
the middle of everything, ifyou're really looking at the map
(02:30):
.
So center of Europe, there's alot of co-production coming in
from the UK and then US.
So there's a lot of opportunityif you speak the languages.
And I feel like that's for manyactors.
I know the challenge.
We have many great actors butwe have a small industry here in
Belgium.
So if you're not part of the, Idon't want to be that guy, but
if you're not part of the cliqueor the little group, it's very
(02:53):
hard to get jobs here in Belgium, whereas with the co-production
thing, I feel likeinternationally you have more of
a fair chance.
If your agent gets yourauditions, then again it's
pretty difficult because youhave to compete against native
speaking actors who also havehad training.
So it's really about for me it'sabout how many languages can
(03:16):
you speak really well, to thepoint that it sounds like you're
a native, because that's whatyou're going to be doing.
That's how I built my career.
I don't like to call it acareer, because I don't feel
like I don't know if Boston Cityor whatnot, but that's how I
managed it and that's how I gotmy agents because I have very
solid mastery of English accents, both American and British.
(03:38):
So that's mainly the thing,because it's tough in Belgium, I
feel like, especially becauseit's such in belgium, I feel
like especially because it's asmall market.
So to me it was a logical stepto go international because of
my languages.
But it's if you don't have that, it's hard for sure can.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Can you just clarify is your agent in belgium or is
the agent in the uk, or do youhave different agents?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
no, I have one agent.
My agent is based in belgium aswell, but he works
internationally and that's justbecause the industry has evolved
right.
It used to be that you had tohave an agent in london or la or
wherever, but now, withself-tape being the main thing,
doesn't really matter where youare.
The agent has to be connectedto people in the industry and I
feel like my age really is, andI've had this discussion with
(04:23):
people from spotlight andwhatever, and they all confirm
that alana, my agent, they lovehim.
He is such a hard worker, hereally fights for his talents,
for his actors, and he does allthe right things.
So I have a tremendous amountof faith in my agent and I feel
like he does a great job.
And yeah, it's justinternational castings.
I've got more internationalcastings through him than I've
got dutch or belgian castings inthe last two years.
(04:46):
So for me, I couldn't care lessif he isn't based in uk or us.
He gets the same calls anyways.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So so you're saying that there are two things,
especially coming from belgium,that really defined your success
or the possibilities of youopening doors is number one,
having a good agent and numbertwo, speaking the languages.
How many languages do you speak?
Which languages do you speak,and are you a native in those
languages or did you do any sortof accent reduction?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So I've worked in four languages.
Yeah, no, I mean, they countthem now as I've worked in Dutch
, english, french and German.
Yeah, so I've worked in Dutch,english, french and German.
Yeah, so I've worked in fourlanguages.
I'm fluent in Dutch and English.
French is okay.
If I have a script that I canwork on it with some accent
coaching.
I'm really solid.
Same with German, but German issketchy at best.
But I have worked a lot inGerman, actually because I have
(05:41):
an ear for actions.
I, because I have a near foractions, I get by.
I'm not a native speaker ineither of these languages,
except for Dutch, but I havetrained.
I did teacher training, rightso, and I studied English there.
So we had extensive amount oftraining there in the British
accent.
So that's where that came out.
My American accent is therebecause I have a near for sounds
(06:02):
.
I have a near for actions.
I grew up playing basketballand that's a very American sport
, so I would always watchYouTube channels, interviews and
basketball games and everythingwas American-American.
So that's where that sort ofhappened.
And I'm also this nerd wholikes to look up accents and
tries to mimic those and getgood at them.
(06:24):
So in many ways, I wasself-taught in terms of how
accents work except for theEnglish, the British one and now
I also teach people how to getthere, how to speak in a solid
RP British accent or sort of ageneral American one.
But I'm not a native speaker.
However, I do fool people everynow and then.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So I know that one of your recent highlights is that
you were casted in a featurefilm called Bonhoeffer, which is
an international production inthe UK.
Tell us more Like was there anysort of difficulties to
overcome to get casted for that?
Was it easy?
Was it a for that?
Was it easy?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Was it a smooth process?
Was it?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
like a rollercoaster.
Tell us more.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
That was an interesting process.
It was a co-production betweenIreland, uk, us, belgium, so a
lot of moving parts.
I got called in for an auditionto play a certain character.
They gave me a scene, but Ididn't know what I was
auditioning for.
I had no idea what it was.
I knew it was a movie, but Ididn't know who the director was
and didn't know what the storywas.
(07:29):
I just had to go on instinct,so I did.
This is one of the things that Iam passionate about as well as
an actor is seeing you studyscript analysis based on the
little things you have.
So I was able to piece togethera lot already.
Then I was in the waiting roomfor the audition.
I was in Brussels, I was in thewaiting room and I had no idea
who I was auditioning for.
(07:49):
I asked if people in the roomknew it, and they did know what
I was auditioning for and theytold me it was Forgotten Spy,
because I was the working titleat the time.
They later changed it toBonhoeffer.
I asked who the director wasand they said Dr Manicke.
And I was like who the hell isDr Manicke?
Like you don't know?
I'm like I don't know.
So I looked him up on IDB andhe is this huge American
(08:11):
director.
He worked with Tom Hanks.
He worked with, he wrote Sully,in which Tom Hanks plays the
captain, and he works with SeanPenn.
Sean Pendleton, you worked withsuch amazing actors.
I was like, oh shit.
So they gave me butterflies.
(08:31):
So I walked into the castingroom, did the casting for the
character that I worked for, butI did not On the spot.
The casting really gave me somemore lines to do for other
characters as well.
So that was tricky and ittaught me a thing or two.
It taught me to be quick on myfeet.
I'm blessed in the sense that Ilearn lines really fast.
(08:51):
I have an easy time picking uplines.
But it made me, as an actingteacher, shift folks a bit and
incorporate that element in myteaching as well, to prepare
actors to read quickly and toquickly pick up new texts or
unseen scripts that they justhave to do, because that's how
casting works.
(09:12):
Straight enough, because I wasbashing on in-person auditions.
That was not in the personaudition, no self-taught
required.
So the casting process was yeah, it was definitely interesting,
and then I got cast in it.
I had to go to spa for a coupleof days to shoot some scenes
there, and then I had to go toIreland for three days to finish
up the shoot.
It was really cool, one of mybiggest highlights, as you said
(09:35):
it so well, recently.
Even though it was a small part, it was just a small speaking
part my character is calledanother prisoner.
It wasn't that I had a big partin it, but that was definitely
cool.
I had my own trailer andeverything.
So it was just ah, this world.
Wow, that's wild to have yourown trailer.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So a question, because I have had the same.
I've had similar experiences asan actress, like doing
auditions for roles or biggerroles that I'm used to, and
sometimes I had informationabout who the director was and
stuff, and I did research.
I'm like, oh my gosh, this ishuge.
And then sometimes I had noidea what I was casting for.
(10:14):
And then I got the role and Igot on set and I had no idea
that I was actually like movingwith big people.
So when you were on set forBonhoeffer, now that you knew
that the people that wereinvolved were people with a lot
of experience and stuff, did youdo your research before or did
you just go on set with a veryinnocent, open heart and just
(10:37):
thinking I'm going in and that'sit?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I was so ignorant and so innocent because I knew it
was Todd Kraman, that's all Iknew.
I hadn't seen a call sheet yeteither, until the last day, uh.
But then you're focusing onyour scene and you have to shoot
and everything.
So you get the call sheet and Ijust check where I have to be
and who is who.
I didn't really look at, lookinto anything, I didn't really
do any research, I didn't reallyhave time for that with travel
(11:00):
and everything but.
But so I was very ignorant andvery innocent coming on set.
And then I got on set and, yeah,it blew me away, because you
have producers that are wearingMarvel and DC hats.
They were on those projects.
You had a DOP, john Mathewson,who had filmed Phantom of the
Opera, gladiator.
(11:21):
He was a goddamn DOP.
I was like what?
It totally blew me away.
And it was also my first timeworking with Americans on a
professional film set and thatwas interesting as well, because
, yeah, americans are verypositive people, but to the
point that they, as a Belgianbecause we're very modest, we
(11:42):
are very we don't like to bragthey will tell you how great you
are 10 times in a minute.
You know what I mean.
And it felt so forced.
It felt so fake at firstbecause we were not used to that
at all.
But then I spoke to thedirector's assistant.
She's also an actress in NewYork, she's also in Meisner or
(12:02):
whatever, and she explainedwhere that comes from.
She's like she explained thisway we are working on a multiple
million dollar project.
We don't cast people we don'tthink are really good.
So if we say you're good,you're, you're good.
That's the reason.
That's the entire reason why wechose you, because you are good
(12:23):
and having that explained to meand then having that experience
and how they treated you, itjust really liberates you.
You don't stress at all aboutanything.
You're not worried about yourlines, you're not worried about
am I good enough, am I right?
Because they give you all thatconfidence.
They give you so muchconfidence in the world.
They give you so muchconfidence in the world.
(12:45):
So, even though it was a verybig production the biggest one
I've had done at that point itfelt so easy and the director I
mean Todd was so nice.
Even though I was one of thesmaller parts, he went out of
his way to come and talk to me,have conversation, joke around
and then, when I had to shoot myscene.
Talk to me about the characterand how I saw it, how he wanted
(13:05):
to have it, and I just felt soat home.
And that's because of theAmerican approach, because of
the they just, they just loadyou up with confidence.
It's interesting, yeah, so thatwas, that was really cool.
But no, I was, I was a veryunaware of who was working on
that thing.
It was just this rollercoasterof oh, oh, that's a face, oh,
(13:25):
that's a face.
That's a face too.
Oh okay, it was wild.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So, yeah, that's funny first thing I want to
bounce back on is you said, likesomebody told you, look, we
only cast like good people here,and I think there is a power in
receiving a compliment, becausea lot of people might also
brush it off.
But actually the fact that youwere open and you were like,
yeah, I'm gonna receive this, sothat it, you know, it, fuels me
(13:49):
.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I think that's really a beautiful thing and I think,
as artists, you know, it'simportant that we do that yeah,
it's hard to do it though I'mreally bad at that still, I
think a lot of that has to dowith you're always your own
worst critic, uh, and you wantto be better and you always want
to be better.
So if people tell you thatyou're good, you tend to not
agree with them because you canbe better.
But it really helps to justaccept a compliment, as you said
(14:11):
it.
But a lot of that is ourFlemish background as well.
We don't typically do that.
We want to be modest, and a lotof times when people give you a
compliment and you accept acompliment, it might come across
as arrogance or rebellion, andthat's something we just don't
want to get across.
It's been a work in progress,for sure, the accepted
(14:33):
compliments, but yeah, in thatmoment it really helped.
But that's also just theAmerican way of doing it.
They'll tell you so manydifferent times, so many
different ways, that at somepoint you just can't help but
accept it.
It becomes, you know, they justtake it out of your hands in
many ways because they just keeptelling you this.
I mean, at some point I wasdoing something and Todd just
(14:56):
came by.
He looked at me, the directordid, and he was like you're a
childhood cat and he just walksoff these little things from the
director of that film.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
That just shields you with confidence, right, they're
socially cool, for sure.
And I want to go back to,obviously cat you know, getting
casted internationally andobviously sometimes there are
like really big people workingon that project and we just
didn't know them or they're justnot part of our circle because
obviously we might be networkedlocally or in our country or the
neighboring countries and notin other countries.
So you go into a casting youdon't know anything about the
(15:35):
director, the writer, maybe youknow the other actors.
How are you the best preparedin your opinion?
Is it through script analysis,just working with what you have?
Is it doing extra research?
Like now that you have thatexperience, like, what's your
take on it?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I'm a big text guy so I like to work off of
scriptysis a lot.
Even if you have just one pageof a C, you can find out so much
about what you're doing in thatC.
I'll give you an example.
(16:15):
I got cast not too long ago ina British TV series called
Bookish Small part.
They didn't really give me anyinformation to go off of at
first.
The only thing I knew was it'sin the 40s, it's london and it's
a crime thing.
That's all I knew.
My character is pretty small.
I got that the the lines isthree lines, literally three
lines, and I.
(16:35):
That was going to be the onlyscene that I had as well, but
with that little scene I wasable to deduce so many things
about the show that I was ableto put in the audition and I
think that's why I got the thepardon.
So I really believe that there'sso much on the page.
If you're willing to look, youknow how to look in that sense.
But this reminds me of um ellenpoe, for example, the writer.
(16:57):
He was a writer who was big onthe idea that every word on the
page has to propel the storyforward.
If it doesn't propel the storyforward, it doesn't have a place
on the page.
So in that sense, everythingthe writer has penned down has
meaning.
You just have to find it.
(17:17):
So that's one thing, but also,at the same time, you want to
have your own sort ofinterpretation to it, because
it's one thing to do with thewriter and the director.
You expect you to do buteverybody will do that and the
hard part is how do you standout?
Everybody's given the samegiven circumstance, everybody's
given the same material.
How do you stand out?
And that's really the hard part, I feel, about acting, because
(17:42):
acting isn't your job.
Your job as an actor isn't toact.
Your job as an actor is toaudition.
It's getting good at auditionsand then when you get the job,
that's playtime.
That's as reset, it's cool.
You just get to play around insandbox.
It's really auditioning.
So for me it's text analysisand when you know who the
director is, you can look upsome things.
But usually you have so littletime that I don't really focus
(18:06):
too much on that aspect.
I try to just work with thescene, the lines and what is the
situation that we're having toplay.
That's what I tend to do.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I'd love to bounce back on that.
First of all, I absolutely lovewhat you said.
Working as an actor is actuallyauditioning, is getting the job
(18:36):
, and then, once you've got thejob, it's playtime.
And it's so true.
That's probably the easiestpart, because you can just dive
in and you have time to reallyexpand and let your creativity
take the lead.
I also want to bounce back onthe fact that you had three
lines, because I think that, asactors, I think there was a bit
of a challenge is that when wego to an acting school or we
train in acting, we receive longscenes and so in that scene
there is an arc and yourcharacter is changing, and then
when you audition for the firstroles, you audition it's small
roles and you have literally two, three lines and you're like
(19:00):
how am I?
you're like, how am I gonna?
How am I gonna find an arc inthese two or three lines?
What are your tips, your toptips for these?
You know, because we're gonnado probably a hundred auditions
because before we land like abig role, right that type.
What are your top tips foractors?
You have two, three, four linesto make the most of it yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So the coastal roles, as they're called, are the ones
that are going to at first beyour bread and butter.
Sadly, you have to do them.
It's the hierarchy of theindustry.
You just have to work your wayup and sometimes you get lucky.
Some people get cast off thestreet into big roles.
That is one of the million thatdoesn't happen a lot, sadly.
(19:41):
What I would tend to do, or whatI always tell people, is find
the situation you're in.
If you can convincingly dowhat's on the page, really do
what's on the page in the rightsetting and circumstance, you
will be believable.
So that's number one.
Find out what you're doing,where you're doing it, why
you're doing it as a character.
Because to me, a lot of peoplefocus on character way too much.
(20:04):
They want to make the characterstand out, but in an audition
they only had You've seen theaudition, let's say, two days
before the deadline.
In those two days you also haveother things to do.
You have work to do.
No way that in these two daysyou're going to find a character
doesn't happen.
Character is is born overmonths.
(20:27):
So I I always say don't focuson character, just make sure you
know what you have to do, dothat really so, if, if you
really do something on set or onscreen or on whatever you're
believable.
So that's number one.
Now number two find the nuances.
As I mentioned about theaudition that I did, I just did.
I read through the lines.
(20:47):
I knew sort of the the timethey were playing in it was the
40s in london.
I had an idea and I knew thatwas interesting, because in the
40s in london London, I can'treally say too much about it yet
, but in that time in the 40s inLondon that was very illegal
(21:08):
and he's working with the cops.
So that gave the scene somelife, some drama, some dramatic
tension, because it's illegaland he's working with the cops.
That was my take on it.
I found that and if you havewhat you're doing and you're
making that real and then youadd that top layer of intrigue,
that's going to make you standout, I feel like you want to
(21:29):
have your character feel likeyou're a real person.
That's the idea, because yourcharacter, even though it's only
three lines and they walk inthe scene, they have that moment
and they walk out.
They've done things before thatscene, they're going to do
things after that scene.
You want to have that idea.
You want to have that feelingof oh, this person has something
to do and they just happen tohave a scene with this person
(21:49):
now, awesome, great advice.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Thank you I try.
I want to go back a little bitin what you said previously
about obviously working, beingbased in Belgium and being a
working actor.
You said there are some cliquesand I feel the sense of cliques
do exist and are very presentin small cities, small countries
(22:13):
where the industry might besmaller.
What has been some networkingtips that have worked for you to
sort of break the eyes or opendoors?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I'm the worst person to ask because I am so bad at
networking.
It's, I mean, it's ludicrousand people are always surprised.
I'm a very sociable guy.
I really get along withpractically anybody.
I have no problem talking topeople.
I just hate networking.
And the reason why is this?
Anytime you go to a networkingevent, I just can't shake the
feeling that it's fake.
So let's say, for example,we're in a networking event,
(22:44):
right, I'm a director.
Hypothetically, I know thatyou're an actor.
You're gonna approach me, notbecause you like me that might
be true because you needsomething out of me.
And that idea of I needsomething out of you, so I'm
gonna talk to you, i't like that.
That's why I'm really bad atnetworking.
I have to get better at it,especially in a small country
(23:05):
like Belgium, because that'sreally how you get ahead in the
local market and community here,because I don't like to talk
about the clique or whatever.
But there are these actors andthey're family actors.
That's something I want to makevery clear.
They're great, but they're theones who get all the jobs,
because of many things, manydifferent reasons.
(23:27):
But it's really hard to crackthat sort of group to get in
there, mainly also because Ididn't go to drama school.
So I'm not, I didn't come fromthe traditional sort of channels
, I just forged my own path, orI'm doing that, and is that?
That's also harder becausetypically casting directors here
in belgium, I feel they go toshowcases the bachelor students
(23:49):
at casco, whatever they performtheir, their final, their exam,
and casting directors go andcheck that out.
Obviously because these peoplehave been working hard for three
or four years.
You, they want to get into theindustry, they want to work.
It's almost ludicrous to be madabout that.
Of course I want them to work.
They've worked their asses offfor three years studying their
(24:10):
asses off.
Of course they should work, butthese casting directors they
also don't have that much timeso they won't say I'm doing a
play, the chances of them comingto watch my play versus the
showcase of this drama school.
I don't really have to explainthat they're not going to show
(24:30):
and that's hard.
It's really hard to get noticed,to get on the radar, because as
an artist you have to believethat you're good and I do think
I am a solid actor.
You still have so much toimprove upon, sure, but I feel
like I'm competent, but it'shard to be able to show that,
especially then.
You know this is a.
You know have three lines makesit even harder to showcase your
(24:51):
talent or your capabilities.
So that's something I reallystruggle with and I know
networking should be something Ireally have to focus on more.
I know I should go to filmfestivals more talks, to panels
too.
I tend to network best on set.
When I do have a job or I'mdoing a cast on something, I
(25:16):
just want to leave a goodimpression to the people on set
the director, but also, mostimportantly, I feel like, the
people who are part of the crewin the less glamorous sort of
position.
So not the director, not theDOP, the producers, people who
work on set, work on catering,the guys who do the lights sound
guys who work on catering, theguys who do the lights sound
(25:39):
guys.
I want to have a veryprofessional and likable sort of
image when I leave set.
That's what I want them toremember me by.
And student films, as cliche asthat sounds, the young students
of today are the David Lynch'sof tomorrow If they remember how
(26:01):
nice you were to them byhelping them out and being
professional, being flexible andbeing just a nice person to
work with and then you were ableto perform relatively well.
They will remember that andthat's also how I get.
That's why I keep doing it aswell.
You never know.
One of these seeds that you'rewatering as students are.
(26:21):
I can just call them seeds.
One of these seeds might justblossom into this big-ass tree,
and if I can be on one of thesebranches, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And you said something really important that
you actually network when youare on set, because I think
sometimes we see our networkingopportunities only as the
festivals we go to those.
You know those panels, those.
You know what is beingadvertised as networking, but
actually it's while you're onthe job, while you're taking
class, like just being in theindustry, and then people see
(26:53):
you shine because, at the end ofthe day, here you are
expressing your creativity andthat's where you network as well
yeah, I totally agree because,as I said, I feel like these
network events are fake as hellbecause everybody is trying to
project an image of how theywant to be perceived, but on set
, you are the realest you as anactor.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
You have to be so vulnerable and so real on set
because that's the only wayyou're gonna you're gonna
perform and you're gonna yougoing to portray a person that
we don't believe in.
So you have to be vulnerableand that's when your true self
shines through.
But that's why I like tonetwork on sets, because
everybody is their true selves.
No one's pretending to besomeone they're not.
(27:37):
It's pretty honest.
That's why I prefer that.
But that's also a catch-22.
It's like one of these thingsyou have to have experience to
get work, but then you also haveto work to get experience, and
so in order to get on sets, tonetwork on sets, you have to
have worked.
So that's the hard part as wellGetting on set, getting a job,
(28:00):
getting booked.
That's why auditioning is thejob.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Precisely, but also, like you said, even being on set
with some students.
You're not working like, you'renot being paid per se, but
you're still doing the work andit's still an opportunity to
network, because they are thedirectors of tomorrow, the
writers of tomorrow, the DOPs oftomorrow.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Exactly, and I've also worked with people in the
past that I'm now collaboratingwith as professionals.
I'm also writing multiplefiction projects at the moment
and the people I'm working with,these contacts, all came to be
on set.
A writer that I met in anaudition room I didn't get the
part there were students writingon that film but I remembered
her writing, I thought it wasgreat.
(28:39):
I ran into her and I was likeyo, maybe we should write
something.
The director I'm writing withTobias Zeru, a wonderful young
creative.
I worked with him on acommercial years ago and then we
bumped into each other and like, hey, maybe we should grab a
coffee, and then that sort ofstarted happening.
(29:00):
So it's the connections thatI've made on set that are
helping me now, more than theconnections I've made on film
festivals or inserts.
As you said, it's a funnybusiness where we perceive
networking as the events and weforget to network on the day
that we actually get to work.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Let's move on to some of the moments that have really
impacted your journey.
You told me that you read abook the Intent to Live.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
So tell me how it changed your life.
So the book the Intent to Livewas recommended to me by Stephen
Stephen Bidmeier.
He's a Meisner expert.
He is maybe one of the teachersthat has impacted me the most
in my work and he recommended methis book, the Intent to Live,
by Larry Moss.
Larry Moss is an acting coachin my work and he recommended me
this book, the Intensity ofLife, by Larry Moss.
Larry Moss is an acting coachin the US.
He's worked on.
(29:44):
He's worked on the Great Mile,for example.
He helped create John Cofiewith the actor, and then he's
and the writer of that book.
He worked where he studied underMeisner, adler, strasberg,
hagen.
He studied under all the greatswhen they were still alive.
So he had this unique positionin a sense that he was able to
(30:10):
sort of distill his own ideabased on all these ideas of the
great American masters.
And then he wrote a book and Iread that book and I just fell
in love with it because itreally affirmed or confirmed a
lot of my own ideas about acting.
It's a great book.
I just can't get over it, howgreat it is and a lot of my
(30:33):
ideas on how acting should beapproached.
I learned from steven.
I learned from that book, butalso from Michael Magota, of
course, but the idea that textis everything, the script is
everything and when you are indoubt and struggle you have to
go back to the text.
The text is going to inform youon everything.
That is what I really.
That book hammered that home inmy brain for sure.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Tell me about one of your moments where you were
hitting a low in terms of fears,doubt, but you were hitting a
low and you were able toovercome that as an actor that's
hard because I feel likethere's always lows because it's
such a scary business.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Okay, so I was doing a lot of commercial work.
Two years ago I was cast as thereturning returning face of a
dutch telecom company called kpn.
I was doing a lot of work and Ithink I shot five commercials
in one year, commercially, paida lot of money.
So I was on high.
Then the year after I got nextto no castings.
(31:35):
Auditioning, auditioning kept.
I kept receiving a no, theywere rejecting me for all sorts
of reasons and then also thecommercials that I was doing the
year before weren't happeninganymore.
So I hit a real big low and Ihad to really start thinking.
I was already self-employed atthat time.
(31:56):
I was a freelance actor, thatwas the only thing I was doing
that and teaching as well.
But everything was acting.
All my eggs were in one basket.
What got me out of that was Iremember my psychologist, my
therapist.
She told me that I had to get ahobby, because my entire
identity was formed aroundacting.
Acting was bad, this person wasbad.
(32:19):
I was really struggling withthat.
I went and pursued differentthings so I got into personal
training.
So I'm also now a personaltrainer and that's helped me get
some clarity.
There's more to life than justacting.
So I started doing that as well.
I started working with my acting.
I mean, if I went with myaction coaching, I realized that
(32:40):
waiting for that phone call asan actor is the stupidest thing
you can do.
So I decided maybe I shouldwrite my own stuff.
And then I started writing, um,and that's how I got out of
that low, because I had a bitmore financial instability,
because I was doing differentjobs as well, but also I was
always working creatively on myown stuff.
(33:03):
I was talking about, I waswriting about things that
mattered to me in a way that Icould also be an actor in those
projects if they ever get made.
Fast forward a couple of monthsto where we are now and these
three projects that we'rewriting are.
We're pitching them toproduction companies.
That's really cool.
It's pretty exciting as well.
(33:24):
So if I had to put one sort ofsentence on it, how I got out of
that low is by creating andbeing active.
Um, and remembering life isn'tabout the job.
The job is part of your life.
It feels like your life and tome it really is a big part of my
(33:45):
life, because acting is such aI always judge it definitely say
acting is not a job orprofession, it's a lifestyle,
and it was hard for me to sortof add things to that life that
were not acting and um, that's,that's sort of how I got out of
my low.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
That makes sense yeah , absolutely so, if I.
If I could summarize it, it'sreally number one is taking the
bull by the horns, is creatingyour own opportunities.
That's where you we really feelempowered.
Even if there are no's that arecoming on one side, we're still
making the dream happen throughour, through our own projects,
even though we do need patience,because making a film takes a
(34:24):
hell of a lot of time.
But then I would love to talkabout this identity thing,
because that is something Ithink a lot of artists can
relate to.
I certainly can.
I felt my whole identity wasI'm an artist and, basically
rewinding, a few years ago I hada massive health crisis.
(34:45):
I got into fitness and all of asudden, this fitness element of
me started to express herselfand I had an identity crisis
because I didn't want people toperceive me as anything else but
an artist.
And I had to kind of break freeof that and say you know what?
I am an artist, but I'm so muchmore.
(35:06):
And if you cannot, you know,see that my box is getting
bigger.
You're missing out on lifebecause I'm not changing box.
It's not because all of asudden I add fitness to my
things that I become a fitnessinstructor.
It's like I am an artist and somuch more.
But it was a crisis to gothrough that and accept it.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
For sure, for sure.
I've had a similar phase inlife Because I always jokingly
say I don't have hobbies, I haveobsessions.
So if I do something, I becomea nut.
There's no even ground, there'sno middle ground or whatever.
No, it's either do or don't,and if you do it, really batshit
crazy.
(35:48):
Everything has to be dialed inor I don't do it at all.
I really understand what you'resaying and I had the same
crisis, but in that sense it'slike you said, you're not
changing boxes.
You're saying, and I had thesame sort of crisis, but in that
sense, uh, it's like you said,you're not changing boxes,
you're just building a biggerbox.
If people don't see that, theyshould step back a couple steps
to see the bigger picture.
(36:08):
Um, because you can be so many,so many things and I feel like,
as an artist, you, the more youdo in life, the more
experiences you have, the betteryour craft is going to be
eventually.
And for me personally, forexample, because I was about
identity and casting and stuffthis has something to do with
(36:30):
that.
I was always considered for thehandsome guy roles, especially
when I was a little younger andhad a bit more hair.
I was always considered for thehandsome guy role.
And then I also had thatidentity crisis actually,
because at that point because Iwas also doing modeling I felt
like I wasn't being seen as anactor, I was being seen as a
(36:54):
pretty face.
So I had a really big crisisthere where I was really
rebellious and I would almost Iwould almost try my best to not
get tasked in those parts, justto make a point.
I was going out of my way toget these other sort of roles
which no one was going to giveme because I was just starting
(37:16):
out.
And then I had to learn andaccept that this was also part
of who I was and take that andown it, because those are the
parts I was going to lose.
And that's how I got intofitness as well.
I was like, okay, you know whatI'm gonna, I'm gonna own this
part of me.
Okay, I'm a handsome guy, I'mgonna own this, I'm gonna be
that because that's also what Iam, I defined by this.
(37:37):
Only, no, give me so much more.
But this is also part of myidentity.
And then I started being intofitness because I thought that
casting wise if they're castingfor the handsome guy, look,
because I thought thatcasting-wise, if they're casting
for the handsome guy, look, Ineed to look that part.
So I went into fitness.
First, I hated it.
I wasn't a basketball playerand I, just, as a field sport
(37:58):
guy, you just don't like the gym.
That's an unwritten rule,apparently it is, but then I
fell in love with that and then,what do you know?
I got obsessed so, and thenthat came along.
Am I an actor or am I a PT?
No, fucking them both.
So I feel like you don't want tolimit yourself.
(38:19):
However, because there's alsothe other side of that coin,
where you, I feel like,sometimes as creatives and this
is something I struggle with attimes as well because you're so
interested in many differentthings, you tend to lose focus
on one thing.
Because you have all thesedifferent things happening, all
these little endeavors, and youend up with so many different
(38:43):
things at the same time that youhave to focus on that, you
can't really commit to one thingfully.
So that's also something thatI'm learning.
Yes, it's okay to do manydifferent things, but the thing
that you feed time and energy isthe thing that will grow.
So I have to also think what ismy main goal?
Is my main goal being a reallygood PT and an athlete or
(39:04):
whatever?
Yeah, that's a goal, but whatis the main goal, the main goal
being a really good PT and anathlete or whatever?
Yeah, and that's a goal, butwhat is the main goal?
The main goal is still acting.
So that's always something youhave to remind yourself of.
And I'm writing and I feel likeI'm becoming a writer as well.
That is something that'shappening.
We want gold.
You want to be a writer?
No, to be creative, yes, butwhat's the end goal?
(39:26):
To get writer?
No, to be creative, yes, butwas the end goal to get to play
a character in these things?
So I always try to do manythings, but I always try to make
sure they all come back to themain, to the line, um, to the
spine of my, of my existence,which is active I can relate to
it so much.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Like same thing.
I have obsessions.
So, for example, when I startedkrav maga, the normal person
would do four hours, six hours aweek.
I went in and did 17 hours aweek.
So I just dive in and I alsohave to remind myself, cindy,
why are you doing it for?
Oh, yeah, because you want tobe an action actress and it's
(40:04):
for your screen fighting skills.
So it all goes into the rightdirection.
But it is true, we have to sortof you know, our outside
experiences nourish us as actors, but we also have to remember,
okay, what is my main directionhere, because otherwise we get
lost in the forest, kind ofthing absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
But also I wanted to pick in.
Sorry that I interrupted youthere, so sorry, but about the
identity crisis, why I feel like?
Because you're a dancer andactress, I'm an actor.
Why?
Because you hear this identitycrisis thing more with dancers
and actors, people who are onstage.
Because I don't think amusician has their instrument
and let's say, for example, I'mplaying a piano and the piano is
(40:44):
really out of tune.
I can then say, ah shit, thispiano is out of tune.
I should really play this.
But as a dancer, as a performingartist, where your body is your
instrument, you have nothing tohide behind.
You are the instrument.
If you are out of tune, yourperformance sucks, and if that
sucks, you suck.
So we are so directly connectedto the craft, because it's our
(41:09):
bodies, that we immediatelybecome one with that, and that's
a beautiful thing.
Also a dangerous thing, becauseif everything is going great,
wow.
If it's not going so great,what's the problem?
You are a problem, not theinstrument.
No, you are.
There is no defense mechanism.
There is no shield in placelike a piano or violin or flute
(41:33):
or whatever.
It's you, and that's a crazy.
That's a scary thought as wellI have never thought of that.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
and that is so true because, yeah, as a dancer, as
an actor, we are the instrument,we are what is being used for
creative expression.
So, ruben, I want to go back tothe fact that you are a Meisner
teacher.
You have also a background asan actor in method acting, but I
know you also talked to meabout the fact that you have a
personal take on the craft ofacting.
(42:00):
Tell us more.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I already alluded to it.
I feel like there's an overfocus on character, especially
early on in auditions.
I believe truly this is a Miserprinciple.
The definition of actingaccording to Miser and Stephen
Didmire changed a little bit isacting is really doing under
given imaginary circumstances,very similar to what
(42:25):
Stanislavski said.
So the idea that you have toreally do in the given imaginary
circumstance is going to leadto believable emotions and
whatever.
That's what I really gel with,because if you look, if you
think of it, this is my idea ifyou have a script, you have to
play this character or whatever.
Let's say, I have to play Tomand Tom says these and these
(42:49):
things, tom does these and thesethings and Tom has had that
background and has gone throughthese and these things in his
life and X, y, z, all theseparameters.
If I fully understand that andif I do my research, if I do my
script analysis and I move inthe scenes in these situations
knowing what I know about Tom,ruben does not exist anymore in
(43:11):
that scenario.
Of course it's going to bethere because I'm the instrument
, everything flows through me,but the character is born out of
actor and script together inthat moment, in that situation,
because I would ask Tom, I'mgoing to say things that Ruben
would never say.
I'm going to say things thatRuben would never say.
I'm going to do things thatRuben would never do.
(43:31):
So I feel like everything's onthe page, always you just have
to look deeper.
One of the things I always askbecause I'm a big nut on script
analysis the main question Ialways ask is a one-word
question is why?
The way I teach my studentsabout text analysis, I'm going
to ask them why.
They give me an answer.
(43:51):
I'm going to say why?
Another answer, why I just keepasking them?
Because they need to have morewhys, they need to have more
reasons.
The more reasons you can, themore you can peel off.
It's like an onion, right?
There's so many layers.
You have to peel off all thelayers to get to the core thing,
to get to the core of the scene, and that's what that does, and
that's through that work,through the peeling back of all
(44:12):
these layers, you find thecharacter automatically.
You don't have to do anything,unless, of course, you have a
character which has a veryspecific, um, physicality to
them, sure, you have to findthat, but if it's a person, just
a Tom, or just a son of someoneelse and whatever hasn't been
(44:32):
in a car crash.
I know all these actors who aregoing to.
They're going out of their wayto find their physicality, but
then they forget they have linesand they forget why they're
doing what they're doing.
I feel like there a why they'redoing what they're doing.
I feel like a lot of people doit the wrong way around, in my
humble opinion.
I feel like text is everything.
That's my aggressive take on iton one side.
(44:55):
The other side is, even thoughyou have three lines, michael
Margota, one of the actingcoaches that I've worked with a
lot.
He would say this to us God isdead, media is gone now and
artists are the angels, andangels are storytellers.
(45:19):
They deliver the message.
They deliver God's message tothe people.
So an actor and I always getgoosebumps when I say that
actors are delivering a message.
It's up to you to find thatmessage.
And what is that message?
I feel like and this is why I'mso passionate about it I feel
like stories are there to changepeople's minds or add to the
(45:47):
human experience.
I feel like stories should leadto conversation.
It's the way we get people toconnect, especially nowadays,
where if you're not with me,you're against me, kind of thing
is happening.
We've lost nuance, we've lostthe middle ground, the gray area
, and I want to.
I feel like that's what yourgoal should be Find the deeper
(46:11):
meaning in everything you do tospark conversation, spark
progressive conversation.
I feel like that should betaught more, because I still
feel a lot of people who getinto acting want to get famous
Because they like the idea ofbeing an actor and they like to
be on film and and that's athat's a fair reason.
(46:32):
I'm not judging anybody.
I feel like you can get intoacting for whatever reason you
want, but the, the need that youhave for telling stories is
what's going to keep you in theindustry, even when it's going
bad or even when you don't havea job for two years, and I feel
like it's that idea, thatphilosophy of telling stories,
(46:53):
of delivering messages to people.
That's my sort of very dogmatictake on acting.
That's my aggressive take on it.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
I feel like even me.
It really hits me like that is,yeah, it's the need of telling
stories, the need, yeah, to adda little bit of transformation
into the world or or add tohealthy debates.
That's why we're doing it for,and that's what keeps us in the
industry, whether we receiveno's for many years, whether
things are crumbling down or not.
So thank you so much forsharing that, ruben.
(47:25):
If people want to work with youas an actor or as a coach,
where can they find you?
On social media.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Oh sure, social media .
That's the thing.
I quit social media because itwas very unhealthy for me, so
that's going to be hard, but ifthey want to work, with me as an
actor.
They can call my agent AlainL'Equitin, the wonderful, dear
Alain L'Equitin, at Lucky StarInternational Talent Agency.
As an acting coach, I work forACT Academy.
We work in the weekends toprovide services for anybody who
(47:53):
isn't in a position to go todrama school.
It's a camera-based tool, so ifyou want to work with me in
that capacity, that's where youcan find me.
Then you can find me onFacebook at Ruben Frank, and you
can always shoot me a messagethere.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Thank you so much, ruben, for this super powerful
chat.
Thank you, thank you forlistening to the Loud Whisper
Takeover podcast and we'll seeyou in the next episode.
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