August 17, 2024 • 51 mins
Known as Hanna is Golden on socials, her dancehall videos received global attention and had millions of views. Hanna Min Jung Herbertson, a strategist who's danced her way into the viral spotlight, now shares her marketing wizardry.
This episode is for anyone looking to hire a social media specialist without falling prey to overpriced hype. Hanna, with her unique blend of NGO, startup, and creative industry experience, reveals the importance of understanding your creative brand's essence and how to shape your online narrative, ensuring your social media posts remain as authentic as possible.
From the bustling streets of New York, to the digital spheres of Sweden and Nigeria, Hanna's journey is a testament to the dynamic nature of social media and its boundless opportunities. Hanna's own story of a viral TikTok breakthrough from the laundry room proves that the right mix of consistency and authenticity can catapult anyone into the limelight.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast, where
we talk about intuition and toptips for the creative industry.
Today, we're going to talkabout social media and marketing
strategy with a special guest,hanna Minjung Herbertson.
Hi Hanna, how are you doing?
Hello, I'm great.
How are you?
I'm doing awesome.
I'm so happy to chat to youtoday.
(00:21):
So, hanna, you have abackground living in different
countries, having actually beenthrough different careers.
How would you describe whatyou're doing today in a nutshell
?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I guess it's a melting pot of things I've done
in my life.
Like you said, I've donedifferent things, lived in
different places, differentinterests.
What I'm doing is put it inboxes social media, marketing,
consultants, manager,strategists it's all these
different expressions, but I'mkind of all in one because I've
done everything in differentaspects.
(00:54):
I work for an NGO and take careof their social media, and then
I also do my own work on my ownbrand and ice golden, and then
I help companies usuallystartups and creatives with some
strategy and creative ideas.
A lot of mindset work as well.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
that's in a nutshell, and sometimes I dj as well I
would love to talk with youabout working with a marketing
specialist like you, becauseobviously some people are gonna
going to take responsibility forit for themselves because they
don't have the budget, maybe, todelegate that.
But once we are in a positionas a filmmaker, as an actor, as
(01:38):
a dance company where we candelegate that to somebody like
you, I feel there are somepeople in that field that ask a
lot of money for absolutely zeroresult and they just like
throwing sort of fairy dust inyour eyes, like I remember a
friend of mine recently.
He was ready to I think it was8,000 euros for a couple of
(01:59):
months of having a digital mediaspecialist, but when I looked
at what she said she would do,it didn't reflect those 8,000
euros investment, if that makessense.
It felt like, yeah, okay,you're going to free a couple of
hours for yourself, but itdidn't lead to results.
It didn't lead to properanalysis of the statistics.
(02:20):
It didn't lead to a properanalysis of the product that he
was working on.
Number one is how do we workwith somebody like you?
And number two, how do we avoidI don't want to say scams,
because I don't think that thiswoman was particularly a scam.
I just think that her productwas too highly priced for what
she was offering, and I thinkwhen you are in a position where
(02:41):
you don't fully know what asocial media specialist can do
for you, you can sort of fallfor that.
But then you might also be verydisappointed because you don't
really know what you should askthem for, if that makes sense.
So how do we work with somebodylike you and what should be the
expectations?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, that's also a great question because it's a
jungle out there, since also thechanges of the algorithms and
everything.
You need a person If you'regoing to get consultancy from
someone that knows what's goingon, and there's many like
specialists and maybe someone isreally great at Facebook or
great at Facebook ads andsomeone else is great on TikTok
ads, so it's also okay.
(03:20):
Where do you want to focus?
So maybe, before you start eventalking to anyone, you want to
get your mind straight.
Okay, where do you want tofocus?
So maybe, before you start eventalking to anyone, you want to
get your mind straight.
Okay, where do I want to grow?
Or who do I want to reach?
And then that makes you abetter person, a better buyer of
services, I would say.
Because someone that comes tome and be like okay, I need to
go viral, I need to be thebiggest account on Instagram.
(03:43):
I'm like, yeah, I don't want towork with you because you don't
know what you want.
Like you, it's too much.
Like you want the whole cakebut you don't know what flavor
you want.
So, yes, you can shop aroundand have conversations
beforehand, like with differentpeople that are working in
marketing, because there'speople that work at big agencies
.
They have different, a littlebit different ways of working.
Maybe talk to someone like that, maybe talk to someone that's a
(04:04):
solopreneur and doing like justworking by themselves.
So there's kind of yeah, seewhat goes on out there.
And for me personally, I like toteach people, like as a dance
teacher, like I like to teachpeople how to do it themselves,
so they can be confident postingthemselves and learning.
And then maybe like when biggerbudget comes in, then they can
(04:28):
hire people and then they'realready going to know this is
how it worked when I was postingand then they can direct the
person that they hired to dothis work better.
So I think it's great to learnas much as you can before you
hire people to do it for you.
So it can be a combination likeboth of my mindset work and
(04:49):
like maybe working on people,like their confidence, getting
their confidence up or diggingokay, what's actually?
You think there's somequalities you have, but maybe
you don't think about it yet.
So that's like how I work withthem.
I'm like, all right, what aboutthis aspect of your life that
can be really interesting topeople?
They're like, really, I'm like,yeah, try it.
And then a combination ofteaching them like how to edit
(05:10):
videos or how to post, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I love what you said Try to become a better buyer of
services.
That is so important.
Becoming a better buyer ofservices, knowing what we want,
not hesitating to shop aroundand have some sort of basic
skills so that you can basicallyinterview the people you're
going to work with.
So, from what I understand isif we wanted to work with
(05:33):
somebody like you, it's numberone is know which platform we
would want to make grow, becausedifferent people have different
specializations.
So don't expect somebody thatis a social media specialist to
know all the platforms theymight have a specialty.
Are there any other questionsthat we should ask them?
If you say shop around, whatsort of questions should we ask?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
them that ask them what are their strengths and
what are their weaknesses, andif they don't admit that they
have any weaknesses, thenthey're probably not good,
because everyone needs to know,okay, this is my specialty, this
is what I'm really good at, andthen admit okay, I admit that
I'm not the greatest at paid ads.
I can do basic stuff, but I'mnot a paid ads specialist, so
(06:18):
that I'm going to delegate tosomeone else, for example, that
Maybe ask them for case studies,like things they've done in the
past examples.
If they don't, if they're juststarting out, then you maybe you
can have a trial period forthree months, for example.
So you see, because sometimesupcoming people that just came
out of school can be reallyhungry and do a lot of things,
(06:41):
but sometimes maybe they needthat background of knowing how
to do things because they'vedone it for years.
So it can be a mix.
It's not a bad thing tobeginner, but sometimes it can
also be.
If you've done it too for 20years, then maybe you get stuck
in your ways and yeah, so it's acombination of that.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
What's the difference between working with
solopreneurs and agencies in thefield of social media marketing
?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So, for agencies.
They usually have differentpeople with different expertises
.
So just someone that only workswith video editing, someone
that only does graphics.
So it's usually also a prettyhigh cost because all these
people need to get paid, butthey have maybe, like all these,
like in the house at theiragency.
They have all this expertiseand the solopreneur maybe yeah,
(07:29):
like I said before, can be goodat a wide spectrum, but maybe
not great at all, or they have aniched.
Again, this is this is what I doas a solopreneur, so that's
what you need to suss out.
And also, of course, likepersonality wise, it needs to be
someone that you vibe with inthe sense that you trust.
Trust is the main huge thing.
If you're giving someone yourpassword to your social, that's
(07:54):
giving them a lot of access.
So, trust seeing, okay, whatare their strengths or what are
their weaknesses.
So what am I going to pay themfor to focus on?
It's better to tell them tofocus on something maybe smaller
, like I want you to focus ononly editing videos or whatever
it is, than to like make me bigon all the platforms, or so,
(08:15):
yeah, it's um.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
That I would say it's good to to keep in mind you
said that you're working onmindset with people, so does
your career as a social mediaspecialist help you work on
people's mindset?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Tell us more Well it's also like coming in from
different angles.
Since I am a creative, I workas creative, I know how it is to
be on that side, and then Ialso wear these hats of more of
the business person and talkingabout marketing.
And then I also have to wearthese hats of more of the
business person and talkingabout marketing.
(08:48):
And I noticed through my ownexperience as well that it's so
much about mindset.
It's so much about getting toknow yourself to be able to
reach out as well to the masses,if you want to say, or to your
target audiences.
So I try to help artists withgetting over these mental bumps
we can call them, because a lotof times that's the biggest
hurdle.
People want to blame thealgorithms, but usually it's
(09:11):
your own, like the voices inyour head and maybe the
expectations of yourself, thatstops you from reaching the next
level.
So it's a lot about mindset, acombination of knowing the
know-how, the technical stuff ofediting videos, etc.
So, yeah, I come from twodifferent places in that sense.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So you have a background as a DJ.
You've also worked alongsidesingers and artists as well, and
obviously you have been, andare still, a dancer, especially
in the world of hip-hop anddancehall.
So you said people often blamethe algorithms.
So what are other sort ofmindset challenges that people
need to get over?
(09:49):
Can you clarify a little bit?
Is it the type of content thatthey need to create?
Is it doubting the content?
Is it being scared to go viralor being scared to be vulnerable
on social media?
What are the challenges theyhave to overcome to be?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
vulnerable on social media.
What are the challenges theyhave to overcome?
A key word vulnerablevulnerability.
Because people they want tocome out and be perfect with
whatever you're doing and youthink you have to be perfect
when you deliver it.
But so much of the process ofpromoting yourself or promoting
a brand or a product.
It's about trying andchallenging yourself,
challenging your own you knowbeliefs, or maybe challenging
your own you know beliefs.
(10:25):
Or maybe you know you.
You know that you're reallygood at something, but then you
think, okay, but now I have togo to social media and then I
don't know anything about socialmedia.
Whatever you're good at, it'sgonna, if you dare to take the
step to put yourself out there,then it's gonna, you know, reach
another level.
So it's a.
It's a.
There's a combination ofworking with your own
(10:46):
development and your own mindset.
The main challenge, I would say, is vulnerability and putting
yourself out there and maybelooking stupid, like I always.
I always told my dance studentsin the beginning don't expect
you to be a perfect dancer.
That's why you come into classto have fun and look, look
stupid in the beginning.
And the same thing goes forsocial media.
You're not going to be aprofessional, perfect social
(11:07):
media person right away.
It's a learning curve.
So, put yourself in a beginner'smindset.
Maybe you're professional oryou're an expert in one area,
and that's great and you'regoing to help people with that,
but maybe when it comes toputting yourself on social media
, that's when you need to goback to okay, I'm a beginner at
this.
Be humble, be vulnerable andthen, with each content you post
, you're going to learn.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
So how can people create, let's say, vulnerable
content without exposing,obviously, their deepest self,
that they're not ready to expose?
But how can we createvulnerable content that is more
than just factual right?
If I'm working on a short filminstead of saying, hey, here is
a short film, how can I add thatlittle personal touch that
(11:51):
still has vulnerability?
Can you give us an example ofmaybe somebody that you've
coached or something that you'vedone yourself on social media
that has worked Everything?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
that lets people in on something that you are, you
know, willing to show of yourpersonal life or your personal
story.
That's always something becausepeople connect with people,
don't connect with someonethat's a robot that's going to
just sell something.
So, for example, I'm workingwith an artist now.
He's a singer, he's upcoming,and he was having these thoughts
like I don't want to showmyself too much, or how much am
(12:22):
I going to show, you know?
And he was testing things out,like he wasn't too sure post it,
but he was testing things out,or how, what do I feel
comfortable with?
So he found certain things,aspects of his life, like him
hanging out with some of hisfamily members just doing like
you know, walking in the woods,uh, him having fun with this,
like musicians in the studiotrying out different sounds.
(12:45):
So it can be.
You know, often the times it'sthe things you don't think about
in the first, when you juststart to brain, when you start
to think up ideas, open towhat's going on.
Of course, like set, you haveyour boundaries right.
I'm not going to show this andthat from my life, but there's a
lot of things that's happeningin your life that maybe you know
.
You never know, like this couldbe something that at least I
(13:08):
enjoy it, maybe others willenjoy it and usually it's like
that when it's something thatyou generally are passionate
about and it could be this nichething that's what people
connect with.
So a combination of showingsomething out of your personal
story and something quirky, soto speak, or something that
maybe you don't expect.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah.
So what I'm really getting fromwhat you're saying is it can be
in the smallest little thingsthat we share, like a walk in
the woods, but basically it'sabout showing that we are a
human being with a human lifeand that we're not a logo.
Our face is not a logo.
We are real human beings thatare doing real human things.
(13:48):
I would love to talk about youas a dancer, because you were a
dancer in New York.
You had a long career in NewYork and, like every dancer, you
were just like working reallyhard and you had a career like
every artist, with up and downs.
And then you're moving back toSweden, you go into a new path
(14:09):
being a social media specialistand you go viral.
So can you talk about thatjourney, both what that meant to
you as an artist and also whathappened, how come that you went
viral and how did you live thatexperience?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
In a smaller scale I would maybe.
You see these artists and theyseem to come out of nowhere and
people are like, oh, like, oh,this is one hit wonder, this
person just got lucky orsomething.
And so when I think back on mydance career in that sense, you
know I put in so many years.
You know we met in thebeginning of our international
careers and you know, tryingdifferent things, going to
(14:43):
different classes, travel, likejust trying to absorb as much,
learn as much as possible andthen starting to teach as well,
of course.
And in New York I learned thatyou can't just be a dancer, it's
you need other skills tosurvive.
That's why I picked up DJing.
I learned more about the musicindustry, for example.
So the dancing was themotivator that pushed me forward
(15:04):
in life to network also, learnhow to network and learn about
marketing and the technicalities.
But after some years in New York, you know I had to do so many
like different side jobs to getby, to pay my rent, projects
that you had high hopes were,and then it didn't turn out the
way you wanted to.
(15:25):
So, learning from all themistakes, and then I was really
tired after almost 10 years inNew York.
So I was like, all right, Ifeel like I'm just pushing my
head against the wall here.
Nothing's really happening, I'mnot going forward really.
So I was like, okay, I need totake a break from it all.
And that's why I moved back toSweden and put the dancing on
the shelf, so to speak, becauseI was like I feel like I
(15:46):
accomplished some things.
Maybe I didn't get as far as Iwanted to, but you know, at
least I felt I had I've gottensomewhere.
Of course, like without NewYork I would, I don't know where
I would be.
So I was like, okay, I'm gonnafocus on the marketing now,
because I was already intomarketing.
But I was like I'm gonna put my, my whole focus into it.
And then, when TikTok came alongand I felt okay, and I need to
(16:07):
learn TikTok because it's a bigmarketing tool.
So I just used myself as theexperiment to learn about the
platform.
So I just started doingdifferent things, like skits,
using different sounds, morelike funny stuff, humor, and of
course, I can also use myself asa dancer, because it's popular
(16:27):
on this app.
So I started experimenting withdifferent dances and jumping on
different dance trends, andespecially when I started doing
my laundry room dance skits orshort dance videos.
That's when I started goingviral and I didn't expect that
at all.
It wasn't my goal to go promotemy own dancing because I was
done with dancing.
(16:47):
That was, that was my formerlife.
So it was a big surprise, butalso very powerful to see how
social media can change yourlife in a sense and to how you
can reach people.
That because I knew the people.
That from promoting my classesand all that before in New York
and everywhere, I knew who likethe people were, who are my core
(17:09):
audience.
So I noticed, okay, I canactually reach these people also
, but also reach a wideraudience than them through
social media.
So many learnings and so muchjoy as well, because the comment
sections are really positiveand encouraging.
So it's been a very upliftingpart aspect that I didn't expect
at all.
That also complemented my ownmarketing career when I worked
(17:32):
with brands, because I learnedfrom you know me going viral and
posting.
I learn all the time and Ilearn how, especially how you
can never really trust anythinglike any.
Now I'm not big on thisplatform.
I'm good.
I don't need to go and learnthis new one.
No, you need to try differentplatforms to stay relevant as
well.
So it's a continuous journey.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So we'll talk about the different platforms a little
bit later, but can you tell ushow many views did you actually
get when you went viral?
Because I think you went viralseveral times with those laundry
dance videos how many views didyou get?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Maybe the one that had the most views is about four
and a half million, and then Ihave maybe 10 videos that have
over one million at least Ihaven't really counted them
literally, but yeah, so it'sbeen quite many views.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And what made it so successful?
Because obviously that'squestion that all artists are
asking themselves is what canmake a video so successful?
You are dancing while doingyour laundry in the laundry room
, and is it because you wereposting often?
Was it consistency?
Was it a particular video thatwas just more funnier than
others?
Like what?
What made it successful interms of because you were
testing things on yourself?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
what were you actually testing that was?
So it's a number of differentfactors, I think.
So it's like unexpected.
I'm a asian woman and then I dodance hall and I'm pretty good
at it and then I postconsistently.
I'm trying different functionsof the platforms, like replying
(19:13):
to comments, for example,replying to comments with a
video, because the algorithms,they can help you in a way.
So I'm trying to see what can Ido to just surf on the
algorithms in a way.
So, yeah, it's really acombination.
I was trying to keep up alsolike replying to comments and
keeping new uh conversationsgoing in the comment section,
because that also counts andplus, it's fun because it's very
(19:34):
especially on tiktok, thecomment sections are usually
like full of comedy.
So, yeah, I think those are themain things, like, yeah, so
checking out what's trending orwhat's popular, but making it
your own version, maybe showsomething unexpected or twist
something around that's peopleare thinking like, right, this
is what this is about, but thenmaybe you like you make it a
(19:56):
plot twist, keep up with thetechnical, different technical
aspects of the platforms.
What can you try to use andthat might give you a boost for
free?
And, yeah, and stay social onthe social platforms.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
If I have to summarize what you just said now
, jump on a trend, give a plottwist to the trend, engage in
comments, stay consistent.
I have a question about thetrends.
Some people are very awareabout what's trendy and other
people have no idea what's eventrending.
(20:32):
How can we become more aware ofa trend?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I spend a lot of time surfing and scrolling.
So that's how I'm aware,especially on TikTok.
You can do searches If you'rein a certain niche or certain
keywords.
You can do searches If you'rein a certain niche or certain
keywords you can do.
If you go up on like search.
You can type in a sentence or acouple of different words.
Then you can also trickle downthat search and you can divide
into this word, for example, asmoothie with spinach.
(20:58):
Now you can type in like hey,what the latest videos with
those two words in the lastmonth or last week or last 24
hours, and then you can see,okay, what's actually like
trending right now, or what'sbeen happening with these words
for a period of time.
Or you can see which videos hasthe most likes talking about
this subject.
So that's a very like quickerway to find your audience or
(21:21):
what are the other creatorsdoing in your niche.
So the search bar in especiallytiktok is very useful because
it also it functions like a likegoogle.
These days people use it asgoogle.
And also, when I say trends, Idon't get too locked in with
like people like, ah, but Idon't want to do trends, yeah,
but you can use a slight aspectof a trend and then make it your
(21:41):
own.
It's it's what we do ascreatives we create something
new, but you don't always haveto invent everything from
scratch.
Like.
Tiktok is a very collaborativeplatform, so you can take
inspiration, give that personcredit.
If you take a big chunk oftheir content, or if you get
inspired and then make it yourown, I would say it's very
(22:02):
useful and also physicalcollaboration with other people
on these platforms are usuallyvery successful as well.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
So you said that people are using TikTok searches
now a little bit like Google.
Are these TikTok trends, dothey translate to Instagram?
Are they the same trends?
For example, if you have atrend on TikTok, will the same
trend work on Instagram or onFacebook or YouTube?
I don't know.
Or does each platform havetheir own trend in a specific
(22:34):
moment in time?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I would say maybe around 70%, if I would just
guess.
A number goes over to Instagram.
So it's quite a lot of trendsthat eventually end up on
Instagram.
The time span is getting alittle bit closer.
Before it was maybe three, fourweeks or months after people
come oh, have you seen this onInstagram?
Saw this on TikTok like fourmonths ago.
But some trends translatepretty quick.
So I would say that's why Iencourage people to like well,
(23:00):
post what you're posting onTikTok.
You can might as well try topost it on Instagram as well,
because people are moving fasterthese days.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And when it comes to algorithms, how do they work?
Apparently, they change all thetime as well.
Is there anything that you candemystify for us in regards to
algorithms?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I'm not an algorithm maker.
I'm always also trying tofigure out what's happening.
But basically you don't want toget too stuck in thinking like
that.
You want to please thealgorithm.
You want to reach the targetpeople.
So if you think about thatinstead of thinking just
algorithms, then eventually yourcontent is going to find its
way to your peoples.
(23:40):
So if that's using what you'resaying in your videos, what
you're talking about thesubjects, if it's about you're
into flowers, for example,you're painting flowers, you're
writing books about flowers.
Different ways to find thepeople with keywords, the words
you put in your videos, thewords you put under the caption
text, different ways.
(24:00):
If you interact with otherpeople that are talking about
the same thing, go into theircomment sections.
Don't go into comment sectionsbut like hi, I'm also doing this
and look at my page, begenerous.
It's like meeting someone inreal life.
You don't want to be like oh,hi, you don't hit them straight
away with what you want to sellthem.
You want to make friends, so tospeak, or be sociable.
(24:20):
And then people maybe, oh, theywant to go and check out your
page.
Or if you want to docollaboration with this person
that's getting a lot of tractionor talking about similar things
, and it's the same thing likeyou're doing a podcast and
you're interviewing anotherpodcaster.
It's like rings on the water.
So same way there.
So don't get too stuck.
Just think algorithms.
But thinking about about, okay,how can I reach these people?
(24:42):
And if this doesn't work, okay,try another way.
Like maybe side from up or down.
Yeah is that says when thealgorithm can either help you or
stop you.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
So that's what you have to play around with I love
what you said about leavingcomments in people's videos,
because I always feel very shy,like sometimes I can follow
people's work on Instagram, butI feel shy actually to comment
and actually because of thepodcast I started commenting
more because I'm so excitedabout the podcast and I'm like,
(25:12):
hey, I love your work.
I would love to connect.
By the way, I have a podcastand then we start talking in DMs
but like you said.
It's like a real lifeconversation.
It doesn't feel like I'm notselling anything.
They're not selling anything.
We're literally just connectingbecause we are on the same
wavelength.
For some reason or another.
So you talked about creatingcontent for your target audience
(25:33):
, so know who you're speaking to.
So make sure that whatever yousay in the video is really
related to your target audience.
What about hashtags?
Are hashtags still a thing andif yes, how can we use them to
the fullest?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
The broad, wide hashtags.
For example, if you use theword podcast, that's very wide,
right, so maybe niche it down tothe subject you're talking
about today or the niche ofmusic that you're doing.
But you know, and also it goesup and down, like with
algorithms.
Like sometimes hashtag matter,sometimes it doesn't.
(26:08):
Sometimes, when I don't use anyhashtags, and also because of
SEO, search engine optimization,maybe you don't even have to
hashtag where you can use theword and that works fine as well
.
Yeah, don't get too caught upin the hashtag game.
Don't add too many hashtags.
Like less is more, I would say,so you can try a different post
, like maybe one hashtag, onewithout one, maybe two, three
(26:31):
hashtags, but maximum four, Iwould say four-ish, so you don't
want to like overdo it reallyawesome.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
That's really good to know, actually.
So question you have a massivebackground in dance.
How do you think dance gave youthe skills to become a better
marketer and a betterentrepreneur Because obviously
you're consulting now, you'regiving one-to-one coaching and
so forth how did dance give youthe mindset or the skills as a
(27:01):
freelance entrepreneur in theworld of marketing, I guess.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I got into it a little bit earlier.
To be able to go after apassion, you have to put
yourself out there, bevulnerable, to teach people.
You got to use your voice andfind ways to reach people so
they can adapt, like what you'retrying to tell them.
And with dance classes, thenyou teach them how to move their
bodies.
So it's all a combination, thatto be driven by a passion,
(27:27):
something that you love, andthen finding, okay, do I love
teaching or do I love moreperforming or do I love both?
It's all a process of okay,what do I want to do right now?
Or what do I want to focus onright now?
Because it's through life, itwill change.
Maybe before, when I moved toNew York, I was like this is
what I'm going to do.
I didn't really think about thefuture.
And then life happens and thefocus has changed.
(27:49):
So, wherever you are right now,think about okay, what can I do
to amplify myself?
Or how can I get better?
How can I reach people on thesocials or in real life?
Put yourself in position tomaximize.
Maximize your growth, I wouldsay, because, if I never, I grew
up on a little island in theBaltic Sea, right and without
(28:11):
any internet.
Really back in the days therewas hardly any social.
If I would stay there, it wouldbe hard for me to grow and
become viral later in life.
So my journey was to leavephysically.
Move, get to know new people,expand my network.
Go to New York.
Expand my network even more.
Go to Jamaica to learn aboutthe foundations of what I was
passionate about.
(28:31):
So whatever you were passionateabout, like, try to learn as
much as you can from thecreators.
Maybe go travel to those placeswhere it's from.
This became a long story now,but everything's connected and
everything takes time as well,so don't stress yourself out.
If you're in your early 20s,for example, you feel like, oh,
I want to reach this right now,I want to be here now, I want to
have a million subscribers.
(28:51):
But if you take a breath andtake okay, one step at a time,
and how can I actually build agood foundation for myself to
step and then step out and maybedo something else in the future
, but still have knowledge fromwhatever you've done before?
When you change careers, youalways take something with you
(29:12):
in your backpack.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
In regards to social media and promoting yourself as
an artist.
You have lived and worked indifferent countries, have lived
and worked in differentcountries, so obviously there is
Sweden, there is New York,jamaica, belgium, nigeria.
There are many countries thathad have had an impact on you
and where you know the differentcreative industries very well.
(29:36):
Do you feel people relate tosocial media in a different way
or use it in a different way, oryou connect with your community
in a different way depending onwhere you live or not?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
great question.
I think when I was in Nigeria,that's when my mind really
expanded a lot, because there'sso many especially also like
creatives that hardly haveanything but they create amazing
content with such high qualitythat I've never really seen
anywhere in that way.
So I was blown away about howinventive, entrepreneurial
(30:13):
people were there, like with solittle resources.
So that was really a biginspiration and motivator for me
as well.
Yeah, each country has its own,of course, its own cultures and
challenges.
Korea is it has been a veryclosed culture country, I would
say.
Or they stay with okay, what'skorean is good.
Compared to, maybe, japan,that's been very like okay, what
(30:36):
can we what's out in the world.
And they've been travelingaround a lot more, and it
reflects also in how peopletreat social media, of course.
So, yeah, learning from eachtrip and from also.
That's why I try to followpeople from around the world as
well.
That's a good advice, I wouldsay, to recommend to people to
follow people in differentgeographies, but also in
(30:57):
different niches, to see, okay,what are people doing, because
it's easy to get stuck in abubble.
So maybe I recommend also tohave different accounts for
yourself, maybe one accountthat's more for exploring and
getting inspired from differentcultures, and then maybe one
account that's more of yourbusiness focus, I would say,
because the algorithms kind ofshape your feed and it also
(31:20):
shapes who sees your content.
That's a recommendation.
I know it maybe sounds a lot tohave different accounts, but it
can be helpful and also to notget stuck in your little bubble.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I think that's great advice to have different
accounts.
I have different accountsbecause I have my nonprofit, I
have Cindy the artist andbecause, obviously, both
accounts were created at adifferent period of my time.
Actually, the algorithms areworking differently and I'm
seeing different things on myfeed, and you're right, it's
shaping the way you see theworld, and why not try and watch
(31:54):
different things so thatalgorithms open up doors and
inspiration for you?
I want to go back to theexample that you give about
Nigeria.
You said that you were veryimpressed by the way they
created content with very littleresources.
Can you give an example?
How did they create with verylittle resources and for what
purpose?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, some of the first content creators I
encountered in Nigeria weredancers, because I connect with
dancers very easily and I was soimpressed by the quality of
their content.
Sometimes they use very goodcameras or just sometimes they
just use phones, but the qualitylike the videographers.
Sometimes the videographerswere also dancers, but how they,
how they shot things, how theyedited things and you know
(32:38):
post-production there was somind-blowing and I don't think
they have any formal educationin anything.
I think that's a natural skill,plus maybe just learn from
youtube, probably comparing that, for example, when america is
there, people get a lot ofthings served.
Or in sweden people get servedlike all these fancy equipment
or it's easier to get them, butthe videos don't have that high
(33:01):
quality.
So that was a big wow.
For me, it's about yourcreativity and how you use the
technology that you have.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Let's talk about community building.
You have already touched aboutit a little bit.
You said engage with yourfollowers, engage with people.
That comment.
Reply to the comments.
Is there any other advice youcould give to artists on how to
truly build community in thelong term?
So not people that are justlike liking one video and
(33:30):
commenting there, but how can wereally engage with people in
the long term?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
yes, I would actually recommend the old school way to
do a newsletter or collectpeople's emails, even phone
numbers if they want to, becausethat's where you can.
You can reach directly peopledirectly into their email,
because even if people followyou, usually they don't see your
videos, even because algorithmsthey want to show them so many
different things.
So, yeah, gathering theiremails is a great tool, and also
(33:59):
many subscription type servicesare presented.
Now, I haven't I haven't reallywrenched into them that much,
but it works for some people.
I think maybe it's easier ifyou have really, like a huge
following or if you're veryniched, I would say, so that can
also be a good tool too.
So they people pay a smalleramount but you provide them with
content that only them can see,for example.
(34:21):
Yeah, those are the two mainadvice I would say right now
newsletter and subscriptions.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Try subscription-based content
distribution so let's talk aboutthe different platforms.
Maybe we can talk aboutinstagram, or instagram and
facebook first.
What would be your generaladvice for artists, creatives,
filmmakers, dancers, actors thatare on these platforms?
What are some do's and somedon'ts?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yes, so we can come together Facebook and Insta,
because they're owned by thesame company.
It's called Meta.
Of course, facebook has aslightly older crowd hanging out
there and Insta's a little bityounger, but they're quite
similar, I would say.
But still, insta is the biggestone.
So the good thing aboutInstagram is that you can reach
a wide audience.
So Instagram you can do thiscollaboration post, for example.
So that's a really great tool.
(35:12):
And also to connect with otherpeople.
You can have, maybe differentaccounts that you can do your
collaboration post with.
And also Stories is a greattool to do quick updates what's
going on without thinking toomuch about it, Because sometimes
people watch your story morethan they're going to watch your
posts.
So those tools are really greatto use.
(35:33):
And also you can do differentcountdowns if you're having an
event and you can save thosestories also to highlights.
So those are some of myfavorite functions with
Instagram.
And also you can see easily who.
If you have a video that'sgoing being like very, going,
very popular, like you feel like, oh, this has viral potential,
you can also go in and see who'ssharing your video.
(35:54):
Even though they don't tag you,you can go in and see, if you
press these three dots on theright corner of your post on
your feed not on your real feed,but on your main feed Then you
can go and see who's repostingyour video, for example, and you
can thank them, give them aheart, give them a thank you for
sharing my content and usuallypeople that maybe they don't
(36:15):
follow you, but they share thevideo and then they look up and
she's actually showingappreciation and then they start
following, for example.
So it's a good way to be socialand also show like that you
appreciate their support.
So those are the good thingswith insta, but also it's it's a
very crowded platform, so Iguess that's like the.
You know the tough part as well.
It's tough to reach, as ifyou're just starting an account,
(36:38):
if you're very new there.
That's when it comes to don'tfocus on how many followers you
have or many, how many likes,especially in the beginning, but
focus on reaching your targetpeople, because I noticed that
Instagram, their algorithm isgetting better.
When I'm, when I'm likingdifferent things, they show me
it's getting more and more likeTikTok.
They're showing me, accordingto my interest, what I've been
(36:58):
watching.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
What are your thoughts on Facebook groups?
Is it worth to have a Facebookgroup?
Is it too much investment interms of time, is there not
enough return on investment, oris it a great way to actually
build community?
Speaker 2 (37:14):
it could be a great way.
I haven't started Facebookgroups really myself.
I'm part of a few and I kind ofscroll on Facebook sometimes
but I'm not that invested so Idon't think it has the value it
used to have.
But also, depending, if it's aniche, that people want to be in
a community, then yeah, it canbe really helpful.
(37:35):
So it's investigated, maybe tryit out, see if it works.
But don't put maybe like toomuch of your hopes into Facebook
groups.
Maybe it's better to you'rebeing a part of different
Facebook groups and seeingwhat's going on, and then you
can take inspiration Okay, whatworks?
So what are people gettingexcited about in those groups?
And you can use that, thatknowledge.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
So it's also a tool for learning let's talk about
tiktok, the wild wild west oftiktok.
I know that you love thatplatform and you actually have a
lot of clients that you put onthat platform or you're creating
content or you create theirstrategy for that platform.
Tell us more about more aboutTikTok and why this is actually
(38:18):
a platform full of opportunitiesfor creative people and artists
.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yes, I love TikTok, but you know me and TikTok.
We have a toxic relationship,so it's up and down, no, but
really it's still.
In the beginning it was mucheasier to go viral or to reach
people, and now, because it'severy platform, they want to
make money, so they haveadvertisers coming in and
they're taking up space, butthere's still chances,
especially chances of reachingyour target audience.
(38:45):
It's harder to go viral.
I would say so don't come inthere and expect to go viral,
but expect to.
Okay, this is the platformthat's going to help me to reach
my peoples, because that's whatI still see is working well.
And also, of course, like beingvulnerable is like the people
always say that you don't haveto put on makeup, like they used
(39:06):
to be on Instagram, Like youdon't have to be perfect, and of
course, that's still true.
And but some people, if youwant to make really nice, cool,
clean, really great editedvideos, that's also there's a
lot of appreciation for that aswell.
So, to sum it up, there's stillpossibilities and there's still
a lot of potential to reachyour peoples, especially if
you're a creative on there andalso reuse the inspiration,
(39:29):
because I usually I get inspiredfrom scrolling or watching
other people on tiktok and Imake my but and then I post it
also on Instagram.
So that's my I get my boost, ofboost of inspiration on TikTok
and then I can use that for, youknow, whatever platform.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Would you say that on TikTok that people of all ages
are on TikTok nowadays, or is itstill for a much younger crowd?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
When it comes to content creators, there's all
ages and usually if you're alittle bit older, for example,
you can do very well justbecause you stick out and you're
doing something that'sconsidered oh how can this
person do this when they're thisage?
Or if you're a younger age andyou're doing something that
maybe older people usually do,something that sticks out.
So I really highly encouragepeople that are not typical
(40:16):
TikTokers.
Go on on there, because you'regonna find people that really
appreciate that you're doingthis.
The audience is still slightlyyounger than I would see on
instagram and facebookespecially, but there's so many
also 30, 40, 50 year olds that'sjust scrolling there as well,
like most people.
Probably 90 of people on tiktokdon't post anything themselves.
They just scroll and watch, sothere's a lot of people on it
(40:36):
don't post anything themselves,they just scroll and watch, so
there's a lot of people on it.
Maybe the people that arecommenting and doing more active
stuff are the younger people.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
So you're saying that we can post low production
value videos on TikTok andpeople just love those videos
without makeup and anything.
We see a lot of, I would say,influencers on Instagram that
produce beautiful pictures,beautifully edited videos.
(41:05):
Like you can see that they puttime and effort and sweat in the
quality of what they're puttingout there, and then some people
are very raw, right.
So what would you recommend topeople that might not have all
the technical skills to producethe best photos and the best
videos?
Would you say, only go forperfect, go with what you got,
go with the raw, wait untilyou're ready and you can show
(41:28):
something that's of higherquality.
What would be your take on that?
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Of course, I'm going to say go with what you got.
The most important thing isthat you start to post, because
you're going to learn witheverything you do and it's going
to be a progress.
Like we say, you're not goingto be a professional superstar
right away.
Start with your old dingy phoneor whatever it is.
Maybe it's going to be shaky orwhatever, but the most
important thing is that you'restarting to talk to your
(41:54):
audience and then, down the line, maybe you want to take a class
and learning more about editing, or you want to do coaching
sessions with me or whoever canteach a little bit more about
the technicalities.
I see many people that startoff with the shaky, low quality
videos but then they advance andthen maybe they hire someone in
the end to do it for them.
(42:15):
But yeah, start with what yougot.
The most important thing is tostart.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
I would also love to talk about a very personal story
of yours that you have startedto be very vocal about on social
media.
In your biography you oftenrefer to you being imported from
South Korea to Sweden.
Can you tell us more about whatthat means for you and why you
decided also to share that onsocial media?
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, so I've cause.
I grew up in a with a whitemother.
It's been hard.
I can never deny or hide that Iwas adopted, but I have maybe
not I didn't really share itthat much before, maybe just
small details here and there.
But my own personal journey andwhen I started going to Korea
(43:04):
when my first trip back to Koreawas in 2014, and I was already
putting myself on social mediawith dancing I was like no, this
is happening in my life, so Iwant to share it with people and
maybe it can also inspirepeople to search for their roots
, whether they're adopted or not.
So I started sharing bits andpieces, because, also, I thought
(43:25):
I was going to be able to sharea lot more.
But then when it got reallypersonal or I got very emotional
situations, I was like I can'tfilm myself and do this at the
same time.
So that was also a learning forme to don't push yourself too
much to put things on socialmedia, like sometimes you need
to heal and go through somethings and then maybe then you
can start posting after orwhatever works for you.
(43:47):
Everyone has their own processes.
But you know, I noticed alsowhen I started sharing this
story, maybe different peoplestarted dming me like, thank you
for sharing this.
I could really relate.
Or, even though I'm not adopted, I felt something, yeah, when
people expressed that they werethankful and yeah, you should
(44:09):
actually please share more ofthis, and I was like, okay, if
this is doing something forothers, then I'm going to insert
it here and there.
So it's been yeah, that's beenin my feed as well from time to
time what would you say in thenext five years?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
where do you see yourself going in the next five
years, not just professionally,but in terms of who you want to
be as a woman in the world?
Do you feel you want to talkmore about adoption?
Do you want to give space onyour platform to talk about that
theme?
Or do you want to talk moreabout dancers?
Or is there another field whereyou feel like you want to open
(44:44):
the doors for conversationsaround certain themes in the
next five years?
Speaker 2 (44:50):
good question, because multi-hyphenates and
multi-passionate people.
There's so many differentaspects you want to, you want to
, you want to highlight at thesame time, but I think I'm
trusting the process here.
Yeah, and especially when itcomes to adoption, I maybe start
a podcast and let other peopletalk because I'm I'm like, an
expert in my journey.
But there's, when it comes tothe whole industry or what's
(45:14):
going on in like the, inpolitics, that I'm not an expert
when it comes to that and otherpeople are, way, you know, more
knowledgeable.
So maybe I want to give them aplatform to speak in some type
of way and, of course, like Iwant to be as as a dancer as
well, I want to continue to growand learn.
So we'll see how that will workout, combining it with my
(45:35):
marketing career as well.
It's yeah, it's not.
I have a crystal clear path.
Right now, I'm in myexploration phase, I would say,
and I'm just excited for whatthe future will bring, because
it's it will bring somethinggolden, and I just don't know
exactly what it is right now,but I'm just keep, yeah, keep
posting what I feel you knowcomes naturally and what also,
(45:57):
what challenges me.
Like, okay, how can I pushmyself to do this, or how can I
try to get into this area andalso collaborating with people
and having conversations withpeople like you and just being
inspired by what people aredoing and then seeing, okay, how
can I apply this to my ownjourney?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
own journey.
Has your knowledge in regardsto social media and digital
marketing?
Has it changed yourrelationship with your art?
So your dancing, your DJing,has something changed in your
relationship with your creativepractice?
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Yes when it comes to okay.
How can I phrase this?
I think it also has to do withmy personal journey.
Before, maybe I wanted to keepit up close, I wanted to work
with these people, but now I'mokay.
I was forced to open my mind.
Okay, now it's.
Maybe I have to let down myguard, I have to let down my
pride or to keep something oh,this is mine.
(46:58):
No, let it go like it's theworld.
You belong to the world if youput yourself on social media and
also don't take it toopersonally.
But, you know, also be a partof the community that's
happening online, becausesometimes, as artists, we have
I'm high on this throne.
Of course, we're like, we'reamazing, we're creatives.
Also, be, you know, open tocollaborate, open to take
(47:18):
inspiration, and also people aregoing to get inspired by what
you're doing, without stealingyour content, of course, but
don't be too proud.
I would say, don't let thepride knock you down.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Two, questions to wrap up.
The first one is you went viral.
You had I don't know how manymillions of views, which is
crazy.
Went viral.
You had I don't know how manymillions of views, which is
crazy.
Do you feel you've had thatmoment of?
I have made it at some point?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
in the sense of, because my goal has always been
with dancing to to get respectedas a dancer and not to be
become famous.
And then now I've become likeniche famous.
That's been a it's been a treatto be like all right, like many
people are now like validatingthat I'm pretty good at what I'm
doing, so that's, that's a bigego boost.
Of course, money-wise, makingmoney directly from the
(48:07):
platforms or doing like bigcollaborations with brands is
not where I'm at yet.
I'm working towards it in myown pace, but so money-wise-wise
that millions of views are nottranslating to millions of
dollars yet, and you can keepthat in your head as well.
When you see a lot of creators,when they go super viral, that
doesn't automatically mean thatthey are rich or that they're
(48:30):
getting super rich.
Some do, of course, but manydon't.
So that's when you have tothink about okay, the next step,
what do I want to do with thisvideo?
Is it just for fun, or do Iwant to make it more of a source
of income?
Speaker 1 (48:44):
So, number one, it's a choice Do you want to make it
a source of income or not?
And number two, you'd need tofigure out what the back end is
of how you're going to translate, eventually, these views into
paying customers, whether youhave merch, like you have a
brand now, like you're sellingsome merch.
And then, to wrap up thisinterview, hannah, what is your
(49:06):
mantra and your advice, I wouldsay, for all the people that are
on social media?
Social media can actually youcan have a burnout of posting
content, of promoting yourselfand everything else.
What is your mantra and youradvice to everybody that is
listening?
Can actually you can have aburnout of posting content, of
promoting yourself andeverything else.
What is your mantra and youradvice to everybody that is
listening?
Speaker 2 (49:23):
So, to avoid burnout, do what actually brings you joy
.
Talk about the things thatyou're passionate about.
Don't like we talked abouttrends but don't follow the
trends because it's trendy.
Follow the trends that you feellike you can insert your
passion in.
So that's how how I get by, howI get inspiration to, to start
(49:45):
to keep creating, becausewhenever I feel like I'm
starting to get like, startingto get the science of burnout,
I'm like, all right, okay, okay,I have to dial down, maybe post
less.
To come back to okay, what do Iactually like doing?
So every winter I go down intoa darker hole and I'm like, ah,
I don't have energy to post, butthen, at a certain point, I get
(50:08):
my inspiration back.
I get it through scrollingthrough my feeds or look at what
other people are doing, or justdoing meditation for myself.
You take breaks to go and findyour spark of joy.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Where can people find you on social media, Hanna?
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Hanna is golden.
It's everywhere Hanna, withoutH at the end, because I'm
Swedish.
All the platformhannaisgoldencom is my merch
shop.
I'm going to expand thatwebsite as well.
Yeah, hanna is golden.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Thank you so much for all the inspiration that you
shared today, hannah, and wewill definitely keep in touch.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
And guys, don't forget to also check out her
t-shirt shop.
Thank you, Cindy.
Thank you for everything you'redoing.
Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast, where
we talk about intuition and toptips for the creative industry.
Today, we're going to talkabout social media and marketing
strategy with a special guest,hanna Minjung Herbertson.
Hi Hanna, how are you doing?
Hello, I'm great.
How are you?
I'm doing awesome.
I'm so happy to chat to youtoday.
(00:21):
So, hanna, you have abackground living in different
countries, having actually beenthrough different careers.
How would you describe whatyou're doing today in a nutshell
?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I guess it's a melting pot of things I've done
in my life.
Like you said, I've donedifferent things, lived in
different places, differentinterests.
What I'm doing is put it inboxes social media, marketing,
consultants, manager,strategists it's all these
different expressions, but I'mkind of all in one because I've
done everything in differentaspects.
(00:54):
I work for an NGO and take careof their social media, and then
I also do my own work on my ownbrand and ice golden, and then
I help companies usuallystartups and creatives with some
strategy and creative ideas.
A lot of mindset work as well.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
that's in a nutshell, and sometimes I dj as well I
would love to talk with youabout working with a marketing
specialist like you, becauseobviously some people are gonna
going to take responsibility forit for themselves because they
don't have the budget, maybe, todelegate that.
But once we are in a positionas a filmmaker, as an actor, as
(01:38):
a dance company where we candelegate that to somebody like
you, I feel there are somepeople in that field that ask a
lot of money for absolutely zeroresult and they just like
throwing sort of fairy dust inyour eyes, like I remember a
friend of mine recently.
He was ready to I think it was8,000 euros for a couple of
(01:59):
months of having a digital mediaspecialist, but when I looked
at what she said she would do,it didn't reflect those 8,000
euros investment, if that makessense.
It felt like, yeah, okay,you're going to free a couple of
hours for yourself, but itdidn't lead to results.
It didn't lead to properanalysis of the statistics.
(02:20):
It didn't lead to a properanalysis of the product that he
was working on.
Number one is how do we workwith somebody like you?
And number two, how do we avoidI don't want to say scams,
because I don't think that thiswoman was particularly a scam.
I just think that her productwas too highly priced for what
she was offering, and I thinkwhen you are in a position where
(02:41):
you don't fully know what asocial media specialist can do
for you, you can sort of fallfor that.
But then you might also be verydisappointed because you don't
really know what you should askthem for, if that makes sense.
So how do we work with somebodylike you and what should be the
expectations?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, that's also a great question because it's a
jungle out there, since also thechanges of the algorithms and
everything.
You need a person If you'regoing to get consultancy from
someone that knows what's goingon, and there's many like
specialists and maybe someone isreally great at Facebook or
great at Facebook ads andsomeone else is great on TikTok
ads, so it's also okay.
(03:20):
Where do you want to focus?
So maybe, before you start eventalking to anyone, you want to
get your mind straight.
Okay, where do you want tofocus?
So maybe, before you start eventalking to anyone, you want to
get your mind straight.
Okay, where do I want to grow?
Or who do I want to reach?
And then that makes you abetter person, a better buyer of
services, I would say.
Because someone that comes tome and be like okay, I need to
go viral, I need to be thebiggest account on Instagram.
(03:43):
I'm like, yeah, I don't want towork with you because you don't
know what you want.
Like you, it's too much.
Like you want the whole cakebut you don't know what flavor
you want.
So, yes, you can shop aroundand have conversations
beforehand, like with differentpeople that are working in
marketing, because there'speople that work at big agencies
.
They have different, a littlebit different ways of working.
Maybe talk to someone like that, maybe talk to someone that's a
(04:04):
solopreneur and doing like justworking by themselves.
So there's kind of yeah, seewhat goes on out there.
And for me personally, I like toteach people, like as a dance
teacher, like I like to teachpeople how to do it themselves,
so they can be confident postingthemselves and learning.
And then maybe like when biggerbudget comes in, then they can
(04:28):
hire people and then they'realready going to know this is
how it worked when I was postingand then they can direct the
person that they hired to dothis work better.
So I think it's great to learnas much as you can before you
hire people to do it for you.
So it can be a combination likeboth of my mindset work and
(04:49):
like maybe working on people,like their confidence, getting
their confidence up or diggingokay, what's actually?
You think there's somequalities you have, but maybe
you don't think about it yet.
So that's like how I work withthem.
I'm like, all right, what aboutthis aspect of your life that
can be really interesting topeople?
They're like, really, I'm like,yeah, try it.
And then a combination ofteaching them like how to edit
(05:10):
videos or how to post, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I love what you said Try to become a better buyer of
services.
That is so important.
Becoming a better buyer ofservices, knowing what we want,
not hesitating to shop aroundand have some sort of basic
skills so that you can basicallyinterview the people you're
going to work with.
So, from what I understand isif we wanted to work with
(05:33):
somebody like you, it's numberone is know which platform we
would want to make grow, becausedifferent people have different
specializations.
So don't expect somebody thatis a social media specialist to
know all the platforms theymight have a specialty.
Are there any other questionsthat we should ask them?
If you say shop around, whatsort of questions should we ask?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
them that ask them what are their strengths and
what are their weaknesses, andif they don't admit that they
have any weaknesses, thenthey're probably not good,
because everyone needs to know,okay, this is my specialty, this
is what I'm really good at, andthen admit okay, I admit that
I'm not the greatest at paid ads.
I can do basic stuff, but I'mnot a paid ads specialist, so
(06:18):
that I'm going to delegate tosomeone else, for example, that
Maybe ask them for case studies,like things they've done in the
past examples.
If they don't, if they're juststarting out, then you maybe you
can have a trial period forthree months, for example.
So you see, because sometimesupcoming people that just came
out of school can be reallyhungry and do a lot of things,
(06:41):
but sometimes maybe they needthat background of knowing how
to do things because they'vedone it for years.
So it can be a mix.
It's not a bad thing tobeginner, but sometimes it can
also be.
If you've done it too for 20years, then maybe you get stuck
in your ways and yeah, so it's acombination of that.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
What's the difference between working with
solopreneurs and agencies in thefield of social media marketing
?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So, for agencies.
They usually have differentpeople with different expertises
.
So just someone that only workswith video editing, someone
that only does graphics.
So it's usually also a prettyhigh cost because all these
people need to get paid, butthey have maybe, like all these,
like in the house at theiragency.
They have all this expertiseand the solopreneur maybe yeah,
(07:29):
like I said before, can be goodat a wide spectrum, but maybe
not great at all, or they have aniched.
Again, this is this is what I doas a solopreneur, so that's
what you need to suss out.
And also, of course, likepersonality wise, it needs to be
someone that you vibe with inthe sense that you trust.
Trust is the main huge thing.
If you're giving someone yourpassword to your social, that's
(07:54):
giving them a lot of access.
So, trust seeing, okay, whatare their strengths or what are
their weaknesses.
So what am I going to pay themfor to focus on?
It's better to tell them tofocus on something maybe smaller
, like I want you to focus ononly editing videos or whatever
it is, than to like make me bigon all the platforms, or so,
(08:15):
yeah, it's um.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
That I would say it's good to to keep in mind you
said that you're working onmindset with people, so does
your career as a social mediaspecialist help you work on
people's mindset?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Tell us more Well it's also like coming in from
different angles.
Since I am a creative, I workas creative, I know how it is to
be on that side, and then Ialso wear these hats of more of
the business person and talkingabout marketing.
And then I also have to wearthese hats of more of the
business person and talkingabout marketing.
(08:48):
And I noticed through my ownexperience as well that it's so
much about mindset.
It's so much about getting toknow yourself to be able to
reach out as well to the masses,if you want to say, or to your
target audiences.
So I try to help artists withgetting over these mental bumps
we can call them, because a lotof times that's the biggest
hurdle.
People want to blame thealgorithms, but usually it's
(09:11):
your own, like the voices inyour head and maybe the
expectations of yourself, thatstops you from reaching the next
level.
So it's a lot about mindset, acombination of knowing the
know-how, the technical stuff ofediting videos, etc.
So, yeah, I come from twodifferent places in that sense.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So you have a background as a DJ.
You've also worked alongsidesingers and artists as well, and
obviously you have been, andare still, a dancer, especially
in the world of hip-hop anddancehall.
So you said people often blamethe algorithms.
So what are other sort ofmindset challenges that people
need to get over?
(09:49):
Can you clarify a little bit?
Is it the type of content thatthey need to create?
Is it doubting the content?
Is it being scared to go viralor being scared to be vulnerable
on social media?
What are the challenges theyhave to overcome to be?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
vulnerable on social media.
What are the challenges theyhave to overcome?
A key word vulnerablevulnerability.
Because people they want tocome out and be perfect with
whatever you're doing and youthink you have to be perfect
when you deliver it.
But so much of the process ofpromoting yourself or promoting
a brand or a product.
It's about trying andchallenging yourself,
challenging your own you knowbeliefs, or maybe challenging
your own you know beliefs.
(10:25):
Or maybe you know you.
You know that you're reallygood at something, but then you
think, okay, but now I have togo to social media and then I
don't know anything about socialmedia.
Whatever you're good at, it'sgonna, if you dare to take the
step to put yourself out there,then it's gonna, you know, reach
another level.
So it's a.
It's a.
There's a combination ofworking with your own
(10:46):
development and your own mindset.
The main challenge, I would say, is vulnerability and putting
yourself out there and maybelooking stupid, like I always.
I always told my dance studentsin the beginning don't expect
you to be a perfect dancer.
That's why you come into classto have fun and look, look
stupid in the beginning.
And the same thing goes forsocial media.
You're not going to be aprofessional, perfect social
(11:07):
media person right away.
It's a learning curve.
So, put yourself in a beginner'smindset.
Maybe you're professional oryou're an expert in one area,
and that's great and you'regoing to help people with that,
but maybe when it comes toputting yourself on social media
, that's when you need to goback to okay, I'm a beginner at
this.
Be humble, be vulnerable andthen, with each content you post
, you're going to learn.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
So how can people create, let's say, vulnerable
content without exposing,obviously, their deepest self,
that they're not ready to expose?
But how can we createvulnerable content that is more
than just factual right?
If I'm working on a short filminstead of saying, hey, here is
a short film, how can I add thatlittle personal touch that
(11:51):
still has vulnerability?
Can you give us an example ofmaybe somebody that you've
coached or something that you'vedone yourself on social media
that has worked Everything?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
that lets people in on something that you are, you
know, willing to show of yourpersonal life or your personal
story.
That's always something becausepeople connect with people,
don't connect with someonethat's a robot that's going to
just sell something.
So, for example, I'm workingwith an artist now.
He's a singer, he's upcoming,and he was having these thoughts
like I don't want to showmyself too much, or how much am
(12:22):
I going to show, you know?
And he was testing things out,like he wasn't too sure post it,
but he was testing things out,or how, what do I feel
comfortable with?
So he found certain things,aspects of his life, like him
hanging out with some of hisfamily members just doing like
you know, walking in the woods,uh, him having fun with this,
like musicians in the studiotrying out different sounds.
(12:45):
So it can be.
You know, often the times it'sthe things you don't think about
in the first, when you juststart to brain, when you start
to think up ideas, open towhat's going on.
Of course, like set, you haveyour boundaries right.
I'm not going to show this andthat from my life, but there's a
lot of things that's happeningin your life that maybe you know
.
You never know, like this couldbe something that at least I
(13:08):
enjoy it, maybe others willenjoy it and usually it's like
that when it's something thatyou generally are passionate
about and it could be this nichething that's what people
connect with.
So a combination of showingsomething out of your personal
story and something quirky, soto speak, or something that
maybe you don't expect.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah.
So what I'm really getting fromwhat you're saying is it can be
in the smallest little thingsthat we share, like a walk in
the woods, but basically it'sabout showing that we are a
human being with a human lifeand that we're not a logo.
Our face is not a logo.
We are real human beings thatare doing real human things.
(13:48):
I would love to talk about youas a dancer, because you were a
dancer in New York.
You had a long career in NewYork and, like every dancer, you
were just like working reallyhard and you had a career like
every artist, with up and downs.
And then you're moving back toSweden, you go into a new path
(14:09):
being a social media specialistand you go viral.
So can you talk about thatjourney, both what that meant to
you as an artist and also whathappened, how come that you went
viral and how did you live thatexperience?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
In a smaller scale I would maybe.
You see these artists and theyseem to come out of nowhere and
people are like, oh, like, oh,this is one hit wonder, this
person just got lucky orsomething.
And so when I think back on mydance career in that sense, you
know I put in so many years.
You know we met in thebeginning of our international
careers and you know, tryingdifferent things, going to
(14:43):
different classes, travel, likejust trying to absorb as much,
learn as much as possible andthen starting to teach as well,
of course.
And in New York I learned thatyou can't just be a dancer, it's
you need other skills tosurvive.
That's why I picked up DJing.
I learned more about the musicindustry, for example.
So the dancing was themotivator that pushed me forward
(15:04):
in life to network also, learnhow to network and learn about
marketing and the technicalities.
But after some years in New York, you know I had to do so many
like different side jobs to getby, to pay my rent, projects
that you had high hopes were,and then it didn't turn out the
way you wanted to.
(15:25):
So, learning from all themistakes, and then I was really
tired after almost 10 years inNew York.
So I was like, all right, Ifeel like I'm just pushing my
head against the wall here.
Nothing's really happening, I'mnot going forward really.
So I was like, okay, I need totake a break from it all.
And that's why I moved back toSweden and put the dancing on
the shelf, so to speak, becauseI was like I feel like I
(15:46):
accomplished some things.
Maybe I didn't get as far as Iwanted to, but you know, at
least I felt I had I've gottensomewhere.
Of course, like without NewYork I would, I don't know where
I would be.
So I was like, okay, I'm gonnafocus on the marketing now,
because I was already intomarketing.
But I was like I'm gonna put my, my whole focus into it.
And then, when TikTok came alongand I felt okay, and I need to
(16:07):
learn TikTok because it's a bigmarketing tool.
So I just used myself as theexperiment to learn about the
platform.
So I just started doingdifferent things, like skits,
using different sounds, morelike funny stuff, humor, and of
course, I can also use myself asa dancer, because it's popular
(16:27):
on this app.
So I started experimenting withdifferent dances and jumping on
different dance trends, andespecially when I started doing
my laundry room dance skits orshort dance videos.
That's when I started goingviral and I didn't expect that
at all.
It wasn't my goal to go promotemy own dancing because I was
done with dancing.
(16:47):
That was, that was my formerlife.
So it was a big surprise, butalso very powerful to see how
social media can change yourlife in a sense and to how you
can reach people.
That because I knew the people.
That from promoting my classesand all that before in New York
and everywhere, I knew who likethe people were, who are my core
(17:09):
audience.
So I noticed, okay, I canactually reach these people also
, but also reach a wideraudience than them through
social media.
So many learnings and so muchjoy as well, because the comment
sections are really positiveand encouraging.
So it's been a very upliftingpart aspect that I didn't expect
at all.
That also complemented my ownmarketing career when I worked
(17:32):
with brands, because I learnedfrom you know me going viral and
posting.
I learn all the time and Ilearn how, especially how you
can never really trust anythinglike any.
Now I'm not big on thisplatform.
I'm good.
I don't need to go and learnthis new one.
No, you need to try differentplatforms to stay relevant as
well.
So it's a continuous journey.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So we'll talk about the different platforms a little
bit later, but can you tell ushow many views did you actually
get when you went viral?
Because I think you went viralseveral times with those laundry
dance videos how many views didyou get?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Maybe the one that had the most views is about four
and a half million, and then Ihave maybe 10 videos that have
over one million at least Ihaven't really counted them
literally, but yeah, so it'sbeen quite many views.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And what made it so successful?
Because obviously that'squestion that all artists are
asking themselves is what canmake a video so successful?
You are dancing while doingyour laundry in the laundry room
, and is it because you wereposting often?
Was it consistency?
Was it a particular video thatwas just more funnier than
others?
Like what?
What made it successful interms of because you were
testing things on yourself?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
what were you actually testing that was?
So it's a number of differentfactors, I think.
So it's like unexpected.
I'm a asian woman and then I dodance hall and I'm pretty good
at it and then I postconsistently.
I'm trying different functionsof the platforms, like replying
(19:13):
to comments, for example,replying to comments with a
video, because the algorithms,they can help you in a way.
So I'm trying to see what can Ido to just surf on the
algorithms in a way.
So, yeah, it's really acombination.
I was trying to keep up alsolike replying to comments and
keeping new uh conversationsgoing in the comment section,
because that also counts andplus, it's fun because it's very
(19:34):
especially on tiktok, thecomment sections are usually
like full of comedy.
So, yeah, I think those are themain things, like, yeah, so
checking out what's trending orwhat's popular, but making it
your own version, maybe showsomething unexpected or twist
something around that's peopleare thinking like, right, this
is what this is about, but thenmaybe you like you make it a
(19:56):
plot twist, keep up with thetechnical, different technical
aspects of the platforms.
What can you try to use andthat might give you a boost for
free?
And, yeah, and stay social onthe social platforms.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
If I have to summarize what you just said now
, jump on a trend, give a plottwist to the trend, engage in
comments, stay consistent.
I have a question about thetrends.
Some people are very awareabout what's trendy and other
people have no idea what's eventrending.
(20:32):
How can we become more aware ofa trend?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I spend a lot of time surfing and scrolling.
So that's how I'm aware,especially on TikTok.
You can do searches If you'rein a certain niche or certain
keywords.
You can do searches If you'rein a certain niche or certain
keywords you can do.
If you go up on like search.
You can type in a sentence or acouple of different words.
Then you can also trickle downthat search and you can divide
into this word, for example, asmoothie with spinach.
(20:58):
Now you can type in like hey,what the latest videos with
those two words in the lastmonth or last week or last 24
hours, and then you can see,okay, what's actually like
trending right now, or what'sbeen happening with these words
for a period of time.
Or you can see which videos hasthe most likes talking about
this subject.
So that's a very like quickerway to find your audience or
(21:21):
what are the other creatorsdoing in your niche.
So the search bar in especiallytiktok is very useful because
it also it functions like a likegoogle.
These days people use it asgoogle.
And also, when I say trends, Idon't get too locked in with
like people like, ah, but Idon't want to do trends, yeah,
but you can use a slight aspectof a trend and then make it your
(21:41):
own.
It's it's what we do ascreatives we create something
new, but you don't always haveto invent everything from
scratch.
Like.
Tiktok is a very collaborativeplatform, so you can take
inspiration, give that personcredit.
If you take a big chunk oftheir content, or if you get
inspired and then make it yourown, I would say it's very
(22:02):
useful and also physicalcollaboration with other people
on these platforms are usuallyvery successful as well.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
So you said that people are using TikTok searches
now a little bit like Google.
Are these TikTok trends, dothey translate to Instagram?
Are they the same trends?
For example, if you have atrend on TikTok, will the same
trend work on Instagram or onFacebook or YouTube?
I don't know.
Or does each platform havetheir own trend in a specific
(22:34):
moment in time?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I would say maybe around 70%, if I would just
guess.
A number goes over to Instagram.
So it's quite a lot of trendsthat eventually end up on
Instagram.
The time span is getting alittle bit closer.
Before it was maybe three, fourweeks or months after people
come oh, have you seen this onInstagram?
Saw this on TikTok like fourmonths ago.
But some trends translatepretty quick.
So I would say that's why Iencourage people to like well,
(23:00):
post what you're posting onTikTok.
You can might as well try topost it on Instagram as well,
because people are moving fasterthese days.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And when it comes to algorithms, how do they work?
Apparently, they change all thetime as well.
Is there anything that you candemystify for us in regards to
algorithms?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I'm not an algorithm maker.
I'm always also trying tofigure out what's happening.
But basically you don't want toget too stuck in thinking like
that.
You want to please thealgorithm.
You want to reach the targetpeople.
So if you think about thatinstead of thinking just
algorithms, then eventually yourcontent is going to find its
way to your peoples.
(23:40):
So if that's using what you'resaying in your videos, what
you're talking about thesubjects, if it's about you're
into flowers, for example,you're painting flowers, you're
writing books about flowers.
Different ways to find thepeople with keywords, the words
you put in your videos, thewords you put under the caption
text, different ways.
(24:00):
If you interact with otherpeople that are talking about
the same thing, go into theircomment sections.
Don't go into comment sectionsbut like hi, I'm also doing this
and look at my page, begenerous.
It's like meeting someone inreal life.
You don't want to be like oh,hi, you don't hit them straight
away with what you want to sellthem.
You want to make friends, so tospeak, or be sociable.
(24:20):
And then people maybe, oh, theywant to go and check out your
page.
Or if you want to docollaboration with this person
that's getting a lot of tractionor talking about similar things
, and it's the same thing likeyou're doing a podcast and
you're interviewing anotherpodcaster.
It's like rings on the water.
So same way there.
So don't get too stuck.
Just think algorithms.
But thinking about about, okay,how can I reach these people?
(24:42):
And if this doesn't work, okay,try another way.
Like maybe side from up or down.
Yeah is that says when thealgorithm can either help you or
stop you.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
So that's what you have to play around with I love
what you said about leavingcomments in people's videos,
because I always feel very shy,like sometimes I can follow
people's work on Instagram, butI feel shy actually to comment
and actually because of thepodcast I started commenting
more because I'm so excitedabout the podcast and I'm like,
(25:12):
hey, I love your work.
I would love to connect.
By the way, I have a podcastand then we start talking in DMs
but like you said.
It's like a real lifeconversation.
It doesn't feel like I'm notselling anything.
They're not selling anything.
We're literally just connectingbecause we are on the same
wavelength.
For some reason or another.
So you talked about creatingcontent for your target audience
(25:33):
, so know who you're speaking to.
So make sure that whatever yousay in the video is really
related to your target audience.
What about hashtags?
Are hashtags still a thing andif yes, how can we use them to
the fullest?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
The broad, wide hashtags.
For example, if you use theword podcast, that's very wide,
right, so maybe niche it down tothe subject you're talking
about today or the niche ofmusic that you're doing.
But you know, and also it goesup and down, like with
algorithms.
Like sometimes hashtag matter,sometimes it doesn't.
(26:08):
Sometimes, when I don't use anyhashtags, and also because of
SEO, search engine optimization,maybe you don't even have to
hashtag where you can use theword and that works fine as well
.
Yeah, don't get too caught upin the hashtag game.
Don't add too many hashtags.
Like less is more, I would say,so you can try a different post
, like maybe one hashtag, onewithout one, maybe two, three
(26:31):
hashtags, but maximum four, Iwould say four-ish, so you don't
want to like overdo it reallyawesome.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
That's really good to know, actually.
So question you have a massivebackground in dance.
How do you think dance gave youthe skills to become a better
marketer and a betterentrepreneur Because obviously
you're consulting now, you'regiving one-to-one coaching and
so forth how did dance give youthe mindset or the skills as a
(27:01):
freelance entrepreneur in theworld of marketing, I guess.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I got into it a little bit earlier.
To be able to go after apassion, you have to put
yourself out there, bevulnerable, to teach people.
You got to use your voice andfind ways to reach people so
they can adapt, like what you'retrying to tell them.
And with dance classes, thenyou teach them how to move their
bodies.
So it's all a combination, thatto be driven by a passion,
(27:27):
something that you love, andthen finding, okay, do I love
teaching or do I love moreperforming or do I love both?
It's all a process of okay,what do I want to do right now?
Or what do I want to focus onright now?
Because it's through life, itwill change.
Maybe before, when I moved toNew York, I was like this is
what I'm going to do.
I didn't really think about thefuture.
And then life happens and thefocus has changed.
(27:49):
So, wherever you are right now,think about okay, what can I do
to amplify myself?
Or how can I get better?
How can I reach people on thesocials or in real life?
Put yourself in position tomaximize.
Maximize your growth, I wouldsay, because, if I never, I grew
up on a little island in theBaltic Sea, right and without
(28:11):
any internet.
Really back in the days therewas hardly any social.
If I would stay there, it wouldbe hard for me to grow and
become viral later in life.
So my journey was to leavephysically.
Move, get to know new people,expand my network.
Go to New York.
Expand my network even more.
Go to Jamaica to learn aboutthe foundations of what I was
passionate about.
(28:31):
So whatever you were passionateabout, like, try to learn as
much as you can from thecreators.
Maybe go travel to those placeswhere it's from.
This became a long story now,but everything's connected and
everything takes time as well,so don't stress yourself out.
If you're in your early 20s,for example, you feel like, oh,
I want to reach this right now,I want to be here now, I want to
have a million subscribers.
(28:51):
But if you take a breath andtake okay, one step at a time,
and how can I actually build agood foundation for myself to
step and then step out and maybedo something else in the future
, but still have knowledge fromwhatever you've done before?
When you change careers, youalways take something with you
(29:12):
in your backpack.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
In regards to social media and promoting yourself as
an artist.
You have lived and worked indifferent countries, have lived
and worked in differentcountries, so obviously there is
Sweden, there is New York,jamaica, belgium, nigeria.
There are many countries thathad have had an impact on you
and where you know the differentcreative industries very well.
(29:36):
Do you feel people relate tosocial media in a different way
or use it in a different way, oryou connect with your community
in a different way depending onwhere you live or not?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
great question.
I think when I was in Nigeria,that's when my mind really
expanded a lot, because there'sso many especially also like
creatives that hardly haveanything but they create amazing
content with such high qualitythat I've never really seen
anywhere in that way.
So I was blown away about howinventive, entrepreneurial
(30:13):
people were there, like with solittle resources.
So that was really a biginspiration and motivator for me
as well.
Yeah, each country has its own,of course, its own cultures and
challenges.
Korea is it has been a veryclosed culture country, I would
say.
Or they stay with okay, what'skorean is good.
Compared to, maybe, japan,that's been very like okay, what
(30:36):
can we what's out in the world.
And they've been travelingaround a lot more, and it
reflects also in how peopletreat social media, of course.
So, yeah, learning from eachtrip and from also.
That's why I try to followpeople from around the world as
well.
That's a good advice, I wouldsay, to recommend to people to
follow people in differentgeographies, but also in
(30:57):
different niches, to see, okay,what are people doing, because
it's easy to get stuck in abubble.
So maybe I recommend also tohave different accounts for
yourself, maybe one accountthat's more for exploring and
getting inspired from differentcultures, and then maybe one
account that's more of yourbusiness focus, I would say,
because the algorithms kind ofshape your feed and it also
(31:20):
shapes who sees your content.
That's a recommendation.
I know it maybe sounds a lot tohave different accounts, but it
can be helpful and also to notget stuck in your little bubble.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I think that's great advice to have different
accounts.
I have different accountsbecause I have my nonprofit, I
have Cindy the artist andbecause, obviously, both
accounts were created at adifferent period of my time.
Actually, the algorithms areworking differently and I'm
seeing different things on myfeed, and you're right, it's
shaping the way you see theworld, and why not try and watch
(31:54):
different things so thatalgorithms open up doors and
inspiration for you?
I want to go back to theexample that you give about
Nigeria.
You said that you were veryimpressed by the way they
created content with very littleresources.
Can you give an example?
How did they create with verylittle resources and for what
purpose?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, some of the first content creators I
encountered in Nigeria weredancers, because I connect with
dancers very easily and I was soimpressed by the quality of
their content.
Sometimes they use very goodcameras or just sometimes they
just use phones, but the qualitylike the videographers.
Sometimes the videographerswere also dancers, but how they,
how they shot things, how theyedited things and you know
(32:38):
post-production there was somind-blowing and I don't think
they have any formal educationin anything.
I think that's a natural skill,plus maybe just learn from
youtube, probably comparing that, for example, when america is
there, people get a lot ofthings served.
Or in sweden people get servedlike all these fancy equipment
or it's easier to get them, butthe videos don't have that high
(33:01):
quality.
So that was a big wow.
For me, it's about yourcreativity and how you use the
technology that you have.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Let's talk about community building.
You have already touched aboutit a little bit.
You said engage with yourfollowers, engage with people.
That comment.
Reply to the comments.
Is there any other advice youcould give to artists on how to
truly build community in thelong term?
So not people that are justlike liking one video and
(33:30):
commenting there, but how can wereally engage with people in
the long term?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
yes, I would actually recommend the old school way to
do a newsletter or collectpeople's emails, even phone
numbers if they want to, becausethat's where you can.
You can reach directly peopledirectly into their email,
because even if people followyou, usually they don't see your
videos, even because algorithmsthey want to show them so many
different things.
So, yeah, gathering theiremails is a great tool, and also
(33:59):
many subscription type servicesare presented.
Now, I haven't I haven't reallywrenched into them that much,
but it works for some people.
I think maybe it's easier ifyou have really, like a huge
following or if you're veryniched, I would say, so that can
also be a good tool too.
So they people pay a smalleramount but you provide them with
content that only them can see,for example.
(34:21):
Yeah, those are the two mainadvice I would say right now
newsletter and subscriptions.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Try subscription-based content
distribution so let's talk aboutthe different platforms.
Maybe we can talk aboutinstagram, or instagram and
facebook first.
What would be your generaladvice for artists, creatives,
filmmakers, dancers, actors thatare on these platforms?
What are some do's and somedon'ts?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yes, so we can come together Facebook and Insta,
because they're owned by thesame company.
It's called Meta.
Of course, facebook has aslightly older crowd hanging out
there and Insta's a little bityounger, but they're quite
similar, I would say.
But still, insta is the biggestone.
So the good thing aboutInstagram is that you can reach
a wide audience.
So Instagram you can do thiscollaboration post, for example.
So that's a really great tool.
(35:12):
And also to connect with otherpeople.
You can have, maybe differentaccounts that you can do your
collaboration post with.
And also Stories is a greattool to do quick updates what's
going on without thinking toomuch about it, Because sometimes
people watch your story morethan they're going to watch your
posts.
So those tools are really greatto use.
(35:33):
And also you can do differentcountdowns if you're having an
event and you can save thosestories also to highlights.
So those are some of myfavorite functions with
Instagram.
And also you can see easily who.
If you have a video that'sgoing being like very, going,
very popular, like you feel like, oh, this has viral potential,
you can also go in and see who'ssharing your video.
(35:54):
Even though they don't tag you,you can go in and see, if you
press these three dots on theright corner of your post on
your feed not on your real feed,but on your main feed Then you
can go and see who's repostingyour video, for example, and you
can thank them, give them aheart, give them a thank you for
sharing my content and usuallypeople that maybe they don't
(36:15):
follow you, but they share thevideo and then they look up and
she's actually showingappreciation and then they start
following, for example.
So it's a good way to be socialand also show like that you
appreciate their support.
So those are the good thingswith insta, but also it's it's a
very crowded platform, so Iguess that's like the.
You know the tough part as well.
It's tough to reach, as ifyou're just starting an account,
(36:38):
if you're very new there.
That's when it comes to don'tfocus on how many followers you
have or many, how many likes,especially in the beginning, but
focus on reaching your targetpeople, because I noticed that
Instagram, their algorithm isgetting better.
When I'm, when I'm likingdifferent things, they show me
it's getting more and more likeTikTok.
They're showing me, accordingto my interest, what I've been
(36:58):
watching.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
What are your thoughts on Facebook groups?
Is it worth to have a Facebookgroup?
Is it too much investment interms of time, is there not
enough return on investment, oris it a great way to actually
build community?
Speaker 2 (37:14):
it could be a great way.
I haven't started Facebookgroups really myself.
I'm part of a few and I kind ofscroll on Facebook sometimes
but I'm not that invested so Idon't think it has the value it
used to have.
But also, depending, if it's aniche, that people want to be in
a community, then yeah, it canbe really helpful.
(37:35):
So it's investigated, maybe tryit out, see if it works.
But don't put maybe like toomuch of your hopes into Facebook
groups.
Maybe it's better to you'rebeing a part of different
Facebook groups and seeingwhat's going on, and then you
can take inspiration Okay, whatworks?
So what are people gettingexcited about in those groups?
And you can use that, thatknowledge.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
So it's also a tool for learning let's talk about
tiktok, the wild wild west oftiktok.
I know that you love thatplatform and you actually have a
lot of clients that you put onthat platform or you're creating
content or you create theirstrategy for that platform.
Tell us more about more aboutTikTok and why this is actually
(38:18):
a platform full of opportunitiesfor creative people and artists
.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yes, I love TikTok, but you know me and TikTok.
We have a toxic relationship,so it's up and down, no, but
really it's still.
In the beginning it was mucheasier to go viral or to reach
people, and now, because it'severy platform, they want to
make money, so they haveadvertisers coming in and
they're taking up space, butthere's still chances,
especially chances of reachingyour target audience.
(38:45):
It's harder to go viral.
I would say so don't come inthere and expect to go viral,
but expect to.
Okay, this is the platformthat's going to help me to reach
my peoples, because that's whatI still see is working well.
And also, of course, like beingvulnerable is like the people
always say that you don't haveto put on makeup, like they used
(39:06):
to be on Instagram, Like youdon't have to be perfect, and of
course, that's still true.
And but some people, if youwant to make really nice, cool,
clean, really great editedvideos, that's also there's a
lot of appreciation for that aswell.
So, to sum it up, there's stillpossibilities and there's still
a lot of potential to reachyour peoples, especially if
you're a creative on there andalso reuse the inspiration,
(39:29):
because I usually I get inspiredfrom scrolling or watching
other people on tiktok and Imake my but and then I post it
also on Instagram.
So that's my I get my boost, ofboost of inspiration on TikTok
and then I can use that for, youknow, whatever platform.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Would you say that on TikTok that people of all ages
are on TikTok nowadays, or is itstill for a much younger crowd?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
When it comes to content creators, there's all
ages and usually if you're alittle bit older, for example,
you can do very well justbecause you stick out and you're
doing something that'sconsidered oh how can this
person do this when they're thisage?
Or if you're a younger age andyou're doing something that
maybe older people usually do,something that sticks out.
So I really highly encouragepeople that are not typical
(40:16):
TikTokers.
Go on on there, because you'regonna find people that really
appreciate that you're doingthis.
The audience is still slightlyyounger than I would see on
instagram and facebookespecially, but there's so many
also 30, 40, 50 year olds that'sjust scrolling there as well,
like most people.
Probably 90 of people on tiktokdon't post anything themselves.
They just scroll and watch, sothere's a lot of people on it
(40:36):
don't post anything themselves,they just scroll and watch, so
there's a lot of people on it.
Maybe the people that arecommenting and doing more active
stuff are the younger people.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
So you're saying that we can post low production
value videos on TikTok andpeople just love those videos
without makeup and anything.
We see a lot of, I would say,influencers on Instagram that
produce beautiful pictures,beautifully edited videos.
(41:05):
Like you can see that they puttime and effort and sweat in the
quality of what they're puttingout there, and then some people
are very raw, right.
So what would you recommend topeople that might not have all
the technical skills to producethe best photos and the best
videos?
Would you say, only go forperfect, go with what you got,
go with the raw, wait untilyou're ready and you can show
(41:28):
something that's of higherquality.
What would be your take on that?
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Of course, I'm going to say go with what you got.
The most important thing isthat you start to post, because
you're going to learn witheverything you do and it's going
to be a progress.
Like we say, you're not goingto be a professional superstar
right away.
Start with your old dingy phoneor whatever it is.
Maybe it's going to be shaky orwhatever, but the most
important thing is that you'restarting to talk to your
(41:54):
audience and then, down the line, maybe you want to take a class
and learning more about editing, or you want to do coaching
sessions with me or whoever canteach a little bit more about
the technicalities.
I see many people that startoff with the shaky, low quality
videos but then they advance andthen maybe they hire someone in
the end to do it for them.
(42:15):
But yeah, start with what yougot.
The most important thing is tostart.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
I would also love to talk about a very personal story
of yours that you have startedto be very vocal about on social
media.
In your biography you oftenrefer to you being imported from
South Korea to Sweden.
Can you tell us more about whatthat means for you and why you
decided also to share that onsocial media?
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, so I've cause.
I grew up in a with a whitemother.
It's been hard.
I can never deny or hide that Iwas adopted, but I have maybe
not I didn't really share itthat much before, maybe just
small details here and there.
But my own personal journey andwhen I started going to Korea
(43:04):
when my first trip back to Koreawas in 2014, and I was already
putting myself on social mediawith dancing I was like no, this
is happening in my life, so Iwant to share it with people and
maybe it can also inspirepeople to search for their roots
, whether they're adopted or not.
So I started sharing bits andpieces, because, also, I thought
(43:25):
I was going to be able to sharea lot more.
But then when it got reallypersonal or I got very emotional
situations, I was like I can'tfilm myself and do this at the
same time.
So that was also a learning forme to don't push yourself too
much to put things on socialmedia, like sometimes you need
to heal and go through somethings and then maybe then you
can start posting after orwhatever works for you.
(43:47):
Everyone has their own processes.
But you know, I noticed alsowhen I started sharing this
story, maybe different peoplestarted dming me like, thank you
for sharing this.
I could really relate.
Or, even though I'm not adopted, I felt something, yeah, when
people expressed that they werethankful and yeah, you should
(44:09):
actually please share more ofthis, and I was like, okay, if
this is doing something forothers, then I'm going to insert
it here and there.
So it's been yeah, that's beenin my feed as well from time to
time what would you say in thenext five years?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
where do you see yourself going in the next five
years, not just professionally,but in terms of who you want to
be as a woman in the world?
Do you feel you want to talkmore about adoption?
Do you want to give space onyour platform to talk about that
theme?
Or do you want to talk moreabout dancers?
Or is there another field whereyou feel like you want to open
(44:44):
the doors for conversationsaround certain themes in the
next five years?
Speaker 2 (44:50):
good question, because multi-hyphenates and
multi-passionate people.
There's so many differentaspects you want to, you want to
, you want to highlight at thesame time, but I think I'm
trusting the process here.
Yeah, and especially when itcomes to adoption, I maybe start
a podcast and let other peopletalk because I'm I'm like, an
expert in my journey.
But there's, when it comes tothe whole industry or what's
(45:14):
going on in like the, inpolitics, that I'm not an expert
when it comes to that and otherpeople are, way, you know, more
knowledgeable.
So maybe I want to give them aplatform to speak in some type
of way and, of course, like Iwant to be as as a dancer as
well, I want to continue to growand learn.
So we'll see how that will workout, combining it with my
(45:35):
marketing career as well.
It's yeah, it's not.
I have a crystal clear path.
Right now, I'm in myexploration phase, I would say,
and I'm just excited for whatthe future will bring, because
it's it will bring somethinggolden, and I just don't know
exactly what it is right now,but I'm just keep, yeah, keep
posting what I feel you knowcomes naturally and what also,
(45:57):
what challenges me.
Like, okay, how can I pushmyself to do this, or how can I
try to get into this area andalso collaborating with people
and having conversations withpeople like you and just being
inspired by what people aredoing and then seeing, okay, how
can I apply this to my ownjourney?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
own journey.
Has your knowledge in regardsto social media and digital
marketing?
Has it changed yourrelationship with your art?
So your dancing, your DJing,has something changed in your
relationship with your creativepractice?
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Yes when it comes to okay.
How can I phrase this?
I think it also has to do withmy personal journey.
Before, maybe I wanted to keepit up close, I wanted to work
with these people, but now I'mokay.
I was forced to open my mind.
Okay, now it's.
Maybe I have to let down myguard, I have to let down my
pride or to keep something oh,this is mine.
(46:58):
No, let it go like it's theworld.
You belong to the world if youput yourself on social media and
also don't take it toopersonally.
But, you know, also be a partof the community that's
happening online, becausesometimes, as artists, we have
I'm high on this throne.
Of course, we're like, we'reamazing, we're creatives.
Also, be, you know, open tocollaborate, open to take
(47:18):
inspiration, and also people aregoing to get inspired by what
you're doing, without stealingyour content, of course, but
don't be too proud.
I would say, don't let thepride knock you down.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Two, questions to wrap up.
The first one is you went viral.
You had I don't know how manymillions of views, which is
crazy.
Went viral.
You had I don't know how manymillions of views, which is
crazy.
Do you feel you've had thatmoment of?
I have made it at some point?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
in the sense of, because my goal has always been
with dancing to to get respectedas a dancer and not to be
become famous.
And then now I've become likeniche famous.
That's been a it's been a treatto be like all right, like many
people are now like validatingthat I'm pretty good at what I'm
doing, so that's, that's a bigego boost.
Of course, money-wise, makingmoney directly from the
(48:07):
platforms or doing like bigcollaborations with brands is
not where I'm at yet.
I'm working towards it in myown pace, but so money-wise-wise
that millions of views are nottranslating to millions of
dollars yet, and you can keepthat in your head as well.
When you see a lot of creators,when they go super viral, that
doesn't automatically mean thatthey are rich or that they're
(48:30):
getting super rich.
Some do, of course, but manydon't.
So that's when you have tothink about okay, the next step,
what do I want to do with thisvideo?
Is it just for fun, or do Iwant to make it more of a source
of income?
Speaker 1 (48:44):
So, number one, it's a choice Do you want to make it
a source of income or not?
And number two, you'd need tofigure out what the back end is
of how you're going to translate, eventually, these views into
paying customers, whether youhave merch, like you have a
brand now, like you're sellingsome merch.
And then, to wrap up thisinterview, hannah, what is your
(49:06):
mantra and your advice, I wouldsay, for all the people that are
on social media?
Social media can actually youcan have a burnout of posting
content, of promoting yourselfand everything else.
What is your mantra and youradvice to everybody that is
listening?
Can actually you can have aburnout of posting content, of
promoting yourself andeverything else.
What is your mantra and youradvice to everybody that is
listening?
Speaker 2 (49:23):
So, to avoid burnout, do what actually brings you joy
.
Talk about the things thatyou're passionate about.
Don't like we talked abouttrends but don't follow the
trends because it's trendy.
Follow the trends that you feellike you can insert your
passion in.
So that's how how I get by, howI get inspiration to, to start
(49:45):
to keep creating, becausewhenever I feel like I'm
starting to get like, startingto get the science of burnout,
I'm like, all right, okay, okay,I have to dial down, maybe post
less.
To come back to okay, what do Iactually like doing?
So every winter I go down intoa darker hole and I'm like, ah,
I don't have energy to post, butthen, at a certain point, I get
(50:08):
my inspiration back.
I get it through scrollingthrough my feeds or look at what
other people are doing, or justdoing meditation for myself.
You take breaks to go and findyour spark of joy.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Where can people find you on social media, Hanna?
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Hanna is golden.
It's everywhere Hanna, withoutH at the end, because I'm
Swedish.
All the platformhannaisgoldencom is my merch
shop.
I'm going to expand thatwebsite as well.
Yeah, hanna is golden.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Thank you so much for all the inspiration that you
shared today, hannah, and wewill definitely keep in touch.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
And guys, don't forget to also check out her
t-shirt shop.
Thank you, Cindy.
Thank you for everything you'redoing.
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