August 28, 2024 • 59 mins
The documentation of the "behind-the-scenes" can have a massive impact on the distribution of a film, or creative project! Capturing the essence of the "behind-the-scenes" is planned in bigger productions, yet often omitted in small scale productions due to the lack of ressources.
How can we leverage, organise, get excited, and build community throughout the whole process of sharing the "behind-the-scenes" of our movies and theater pieces?
In this episode, we welcome Yves Ruth, a multi-talented artist based in Belgium, whose journey from dancer to producer offers invaluable insights. I invited Yves after reflecting deeply on the critical moments I missed in documenting the BTS in my early career.
Yves Ruth takes us through his experience of working on "BXL The Movie" as a producer, and the meticulous effort that went into managing artists and producing this feature film. He had a crucial role in planning a creative way of filming the making off of this movie. We also explore strategies for securing funding and maintaining behind-the-scenes enthusiasm over the long haul.
Contact Guest:
@yvesruth
@xuntoldxstories
@bxlthemovie
Want to send Cindy Claes a DM?
Podcast Intro Review
Let's continue the conversation on Instagram:
Cindy Claes - Host
@cindy_claes
Loud Whisper VZW - Producers
@loudwhispervzw
Join the community:
Buy Me A Coffee VIP Zone
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast.
Today we are going to talkabout the documentation of the
behind the scenes of ourprojects.
Now, why am I doing an episodeabout the behind the scenes?
Well, it's very simple.
Actually, I messed up For myfirst short film.
We were so in ecstasy to makingthis short film happening that
(00:25):
we actually failed to plan todocument the behind the scenes.
Also, throughout my career as adance choreographer, theater
maker, often we didn't have thebudget to really document what
was happening behind the scenes.
So I invited a guest who reallymade something very special.
(00:46):
He was a producer for a film andthey put a lot of energy, a lot
of creative thinking into howthey were going to document the
behind the scenes of thisamazing feature film.
Now he is a co-founder of LEADLive to Express a Dream.
He's also the co-founder ofUntold Stories, a production
house.
He's based in Belgium.
(01:07):
He has a background in danceand choreography, but also in
writing, in theater.
Now in film he's also aproducer.
He's a multi-talented,multi-skilled human being.
Please welcome Yves Ruth.
Hi, yves, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Hi, cindy, I'm doing great.
Thank you, that's an amazingintroduction.
Thank you, I feel honored to beon your podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I'm super excited to talk to you today, to learn and
to not repeat my previousmistakes.
So first of all, before westart to go into how you created
the behind the scenes of thismovie, which is called BXL the
movie, or BXL the movie that iscoming out end of the year, can
you first tell us a little bitabout you, about who you are as
(01:52):
an artist, the different thingsthat you get involved in on a
daily basis, what you'repassionate about, and so forth.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Let me do this in a sort of a nutshell and I'd like
to entertain myself, because weget in those places where people
ask us this question and thenwe become redundant.
I would say that I'm a personthat is in love with people,
even though it comes with risks,obviously, because you can lose
(02:21):
yourself to people.
You can lose yourself to people, but that's my driving force in
the sense that I'm a very I do.
I have this sense of analysis.
I like to break down asituation, a character, but not
just for the purpose of breakingit down, but so that we can
(02:43):
come up to a better outcome orto find solutions.
Let's just say it like that.
So that's the base of who I amand basically I've been a dancer
, not currently a professionaldancer anymore.
Once a dancer, always a dancer,but not as a profession.
I enjoy being a choreographer.
That's something that stayswith me, even though I do it
(03:03):
less, because it uses that partof my brain that is about
conception and vision andbasically throughout my career,
what made me jump from aposition to another was the
respect, but also the questionsabout the person that was above.
As a dancer, I was questioningchoreographers because I didn't
(03:28):
think, or I didn't know, and Iwas wondering if it was the
right way.
So I had to become one in orderto understand better, to
respect better, but also to knowif I was right or if I could do
it.
And then, when I was achoreographer, I had that with
artistic directors, and when Iwas artistic director I had that
with producers and eventuallyit led me to go from a position
(03:50):
to another, to understand betterthe difficulties of the job,
but also it made me understandthat I love to do it.
Today my main occupations is Ido management for a few artists.
That's something that unlocked,because some people that I
groomed as artists developedinto multi-talented artists and
(04:14):
they needed guidance.
And then they came to me andthen we started a journey and
then another one came andanother one.
So that is something I'vestarted.
I'm doing production.
At the moment I'm stillproducing in post
post-prediction of this movie,but already on different
projects, and that's somethingthat is taking a little bit more
place in my life.
Right now.
I still do choreograph someproject, mostly commercial ones.
(04:38):
At the time I am part of theBelgium delegation for the
Eurovision.
Belgium has two sides, so I goonce every two years with the
Flemish part of Belgium asartistic director.
That's a position that I earnedlast year with Gustave, who
ended up seventh, and I used todo just choreographer or moving
(04:59):
director for the Eurovision forBelgium, and last year they
actually asked me to be theleader of that team as an
artistic director.
I've also done it for Belgium,and last year they actually
asked me to be the leader ofthat team.
As an artistic director, I'vealso done it for Holland.
So at this time there is thismulti-brain going.
One day, okay, I got to be amanager and then do as much as I
can to push my artistic side onthe side.
(05:21):
I still keep it because thathelps me understand my client,
but at the same time I have touse my other brain to protect,
to anticipate and to yeah,basically because I am also an
artist at heart, I kind ofabsorb everything the artist
should not be absorbing and thenI translate so that the artist
(05:45):
can strive and only get theright information.
In a nutshell, that's what I'mbusy with at the moment.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Let's say Thank you for sharing that, because I
think your background and yourstory shows how much
introspection is very importantif we want to develop our
leadership skills and also howyou kind of wearing different
hats, which is also you know.
It's a beautiful testimony ofhow you builded yourself as a
leader in this sector, in thisindustry as well.
(06:14):
Can you tell us a little bitmore about bxl, the movie?
Who was involved?
What is the the narrativebehind it?
What is the story?
Because you were a producer onthis project.
It's coming out end of the year.
It's a massive project becauseBelgium Belgium is not known to,
you know create massive movies,but this is a feature film
(06:36):
where there was a lot of effort,a lot of talent involved.
So please tell us a little bitmore about about movie itself.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So the project started with two, at first two
different screenwriters, and itwas going a certain direction.
And at some point the producerasked the screenwriters if they
were interested to get somescript doctoring and help, which
(07:03):
they were completely open about.
That's when the producer cameto bring in Ish Aitamu, who the
producer already had anexperience with on a short movie
.
Ish was interested, but he alsomentioned that at the moment he
was writing mostly with hisbrother, so that he would want
to bring him in.
So the story started there.
(07:25):
They wrote they kind of scriptdoctored in the very beginning,
and then it took a gooddirection and they started to
write together and at some pointteam a wanted to go left, team
b wanted to go right, and ishanand his brother they his brother
munir they felt okay, that wasyour project, so we don't want
(07:46):
to continue that road, so wewould just step out and just
finish the collaboration here.
But the producer actuallywanted to go right with them and
they, I do believe, did thebuyout of the first
screenwriters.
The movie took a different turn.
The movie is actually now youcan only say that it's been
(08:09):
inspired by what was forinitially the scenario, because
it's not the movie at all.
At first the movie was about itwas actually inspired by the
events of the how do you sayattentat in English?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Terrorist attacks.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, the terrorist attack in Molenbeek in Brussels,
and it was really in thatenvironment that we were telling
the story.
And the movie now is far fromthat.
It has hints of elements, butit's not about that anymore.
It's called Bake Cell becauseit's in the heart of Brussels.
It's called BXL because it's inthe heart of Brussels.
(08:44):
Bxl is a short version forBrussels in French, because it
has the X in the word in Frenchand that's how, in short, people
call it.
We call it BX or BXL and that'swhy the name.
So we see Brussels, we feelBrussels, the community that we
(09:06):
come across in it and that's whythe name.
So we see Brussels, we feelBrussels, the community that we
come across in it.
There is the Markham community,the Flemish community, the
Brussels community.
We really hear and feel Frenchand Flemish in the movie.
We follow the story of twobrothers, two brothers that
deeply love each other and thatare living different dreams At
(09:28):
the same time.
The little brother issupporting the dream of the
bigger brother and the storytalks about dreams, but also
about how dreams can, how yoursurroundings, how your
environment, your community,your culture can come in the way
(09:50):
sometimes of the dreams thatyou have.
And the question of is itpossible to dream when we come
from a certain background?
And those questions are veryvibrant in the movie because I
think a lot of youngsters thatcome from certain backgrounds
and don't know that there are somany outcomes before they get
to to get to those places, don'tknow if the reality of their
(10:15):
life would could allow them todream a certain way or to even
believe that there is certainoutcomes for them.
In nutshell, that's what themovie is about and I truly
believe that you can have a deepsensation of what it is to live
in Brussels as someone fromBrussels.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
And so now you guys are in post-production and
you're thinking about yourdistribution and all of that
kind of jazz.
How long was pre-production andhow long was the actual
production?
How many days were you actuallyon set shooting?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Start with the last questions, the easiest part.
So the shooting period wasabout a month.
It was like 24 days.
I think the dream scenariowould have been 28, to be chill.
Of course, you get 30.
But with 28, I think therewould have been a sense of
comfort.
(11:10):
And we know and you probablyknow when you're on set like
every second, every day counts.
So if you get that one more day, sometimes it means everything.
So with those 24 days, weactually managed to come to
something that we all feel veryproud of, despite the fact that,
obviously, when you finish withthe montage and you look at it,
(11:32):
ah, here you could have an Rand this and, but obviously
those are the things that youonly learn by doing your first,
and then it only gets better asyou go through the next project
first, and then it only getsbetter as you go through the
next project.
Um, pre-production, from themoment they started writing,
which was because of the story Itold a little earlier.
It took actually five years toget there because there was
(11:56):
other people and then you neededto change the narrative and
come to okay, now it's the new,the two brothers and from that
point on, to come up to that newscenario, which was different
to the first one, which alreadygot, like, the support for the
writing.
Now you got to have a newsupport for the writing, so the
process starts from scratchagain.
(12:16):
And then when you apply forsubsidiary the first time and
then they tell you no, but thenyou got to go for the next time,
all that stretches everything Icame into play.
So if you take that period offive years where I was actually
not involved on the project,come now to last year, let's say
at the end of the firsttrimester, the producer was
(12:36):
actually okay, we got the fundsand now we're going to go for
the other funds.
Because in Belgium that's howit goes you get the main funds
and then, from the moment youget those, you can apply for the
other ones.
It's like you get validated andnow you can apply for all the
funds and and people know, okay,the movie is going to happen.
Just a matter of time.
From that moment on, theproducer Potemkinu, a
(12:58):
Brussels-based production house,flemish production house, was
in discussions with the, the,about okay, I would usually work
with this producer, lineproducer, on the project before
and during the shoot, but thatperson is not going to be
available.
So I'm looking for someone else.
I don't have a name in mind yetand one of the directors, who
(13:21):
happens to be one of my greatfriends, was smart enough to ask
what was the job description,because at that time, being in
the project for five years, hekind of have developed that
reflex to go like what is thebest for me and to have that one
(13:50):
question that might put you ina better situation.
So he did ask the question andthe producer answered and he was
like oh shit, that's Yves.
And he was like oh, is thatsomeone from the movie industry?
He's like no, he never didmovies.
And the producer was a bitshocked and he was like OK, is
that someone from the movieindustry?
He's like no, he never didmovies.
The producer was a bit shockedand he was like okay, do you
mind to meet him?
And he was like okay, noproblem.
(14:10):
So we met.
He called me first.
He was like before you say no,because he knew I was in a
period where I was trying totake a little less work.
And it was like before you sayno, this is what happens.
Like before you say no, this iswhat happens.
Do you mind to meet.
I was like no, of course let'smeet and then we'll see.
And so I met with the producerand, what's funny, this happened
(14:32):
, I think two or three times inmy life.
It's a job interview but Iactually don't apply for the job
.
So they called me for somethingI didn't apply for and the
three times that happened in mylife it got reversed.
At the end it felt like I wasinterviewing them, because I
(14:52):
know I'm not there to lie.
I know what I'm able to do.
I can break down anyconversation and anticipate okay
, what's to come, what can I do,what can't I do.
Eventually, they were impressedwith the feedback, also because
I was able to talk aboutprojects that I've done, because
they need to know how do Ihandle situations that involve
(15:14):
money?
Did I ever handle budgets?
Did I handle big teams?
And they were actuallysurprised that on some projects
that I had, it is teams thatsometimes are bigger than on
some of the movies they workedon.
So they were impressed andtheir last feedback was okay,
it's actually a great interview.
We just still have to thinkbecause you don't have
(15:36):
experience in the movie industry, so we'll get back to you
within two weeks or whatever,say no problem, and I'll let you
know if I want to do it.
So I think that also hit them alittle bit.
And eventually two, two orthree days later they contacted
me and they told me okay, you'rethe guy, so you just have to
tell us if you want to do it andthen we can talk about the
budget.
So that's how the beginning oflast year started, and then I
(15:59):
jumped on the project because itfelt right, it's the movie of
my one, of my brother, with hisbrother and eventually, from
being that sort of co-producer,slash line producer, slash
assistant to directors, becauseI was really there to protect
them from themselves, becauseyou know what it is to be an
(16:19):
artist and to have to deal withpeople that are non-artistic and
that you depend on, it's justthis miscommunication that
sometimes is actually not aproblem.
There is nothing wrong in whatthey say.
It's just we are on a differentfrequency and we're not able to
hear something that has nothingto do with your artistry or if
people value you.
(16:40):
So, yeah, in that position Iwas able to anticipate a few
points that I saw.
Okay, here there is somethingthat is not fixed yet.
So we in pre-production had theopportunity to decide to do the
casting ourselves, because wewere supposed to hire a casting
agency and I did interview onewhich we were very interested in
(17:03):
.
There was this plan in thecollaborations that we wanted.
That was about trying to linkbrussels with brussels and work
with brussels-based entitiesthat are young, that are true to
themselves and that can benefitthe end product and try to make
it more relevant than somethinggeneric, and eventually we
(17:26):
decided that that was us.
We didn't know what, how to doit and eventually we did the
casting ourselves.
I hired my brother, whoactually did also cinema school
of, to be casting director and Imean we couldn't be more happy
with the casting that we haveand the gems that we found and
(17:46):
that led us to the month beforeshooting, which was about
meeting the whole team and thechiefs of departments in order
to understand what's the dynamicof the pre-production of that
specific shooting period.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Thank you so much for sharing all these details about
the process, because thispodcast is about the loud
whisper and it's also aboutclaiming our power back as
artists and really makingdecisions that are aligned with
ourselves, and I think youshared a lot of things of.
There were so many momentswhere both you and Ish and
everybody involved you werechecking in with yourself Is
(18:25):
this aligned?
Is this the best solution wecan take?
Is this really what you know,what our loud whisper is saying?
So thank you for sharing thesestories.
Let's talk about the behind thescenes.
So you had a massive project,let's say, to also archive and
document what's happening behindthe scenes.
So my first question is going tobe a boring question.
(18:48):
It's about budget.
Where did the budget come from?
Was that a part of themarketing budget?
Was that a specific grant thatyou applied for?
How did you finance?
Or was that part of yourdistribution budget?
Like if an artist was to say,okay, I need to ask money to
document my behind the scenes.
What's the best way to find thefunds to make it happen?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
There are different stages to the answer.
First of all, the question isfar from boring.
My answer might be more boringthan the question, but let's say
I didn't have a blueprint or Ididn't know all the answers at
first.
Um, I knew I was on the project.
I knew I was on my bestfriend's movie, which is the
(19:35):
best start point, because I wasdetached enough to know okay,
I'm, I'm here anyways and I'mcomfortable, so my manpower is
already there.
Okay now, what are my strengths?
In that base scenario where Iactually don't know anything?
It's asking questions.
The producer also wants moneyto come in, so he already has
(19:59):
maybe a few answers that I cango pick in.
And then there is what Ibelieve works for myself.
So, going into those meetingswith the producer, peter from
Potemkino, I kind of learnedokay, there is a budget from
their side which is marketingand communication, and there are
those base scenarios thatProduction House do for every
(20:20):
movie they do.
That prediction house do forevery movie they do.
From the moment you get funds,there is a part of that money
that is allowed for that part.
Now it's just a matter of who'sin the team to discuss how much
and what to do in order to talkabout your movie.
Because, at the end of the day,what do companies do, old
(20:43):
companies.
They do a press event, theyprint flyers or posters or
billboards, they buy space forcommercials, they shoot
commercials.
We can break it down quiteeasily.
They do campaigns and then fromall the examples we can witness
(21:08):
and break down by ourselves,and then it's just a matter of
okay, now that you are in thebuilding, how much does it cost?
And then, huh, oh, to do aphoto shoot, you guys pay 60k.
I saw the photo shoot you didlast time.
It's nice, nice, we can do thesame quality.
We might not have to use 60Kand maybe, if it's 60K for the
(21:29):
whole communication but youwould have put it only in that
Can we break it down into.
And then it's going from ameeting to another to see where
I can put my hands on some money.
But mostly because, at the endof the day, I don't think my
best ability was when it comesto the behind the scenes.
I don't think my best abilitywas to find money for the behind
(21:51):
the scenes or for thecommunications that we wanted as
a team to make for the movie.
I think my best ability was tomake sure all the quality people
from our entourage that believethat they want to be on this
project.
But if I wasn't there, therewas no way to get in the project
(22:12):
.
Because how many times, cindy,have you been in a situation
where you could have been withpeople you believe are amazing,
but it was not in your hands asas an artist to bring in, or you
didn't have the knowledge atthe time to push so that it
would have been them instead ofother people, and then
eventually you witnessed shit.
It could have been better andit could have been better also
(22:38):
for my heart, so for having thepath that I have.
I was also in a great positionwhich was not artistic to be
that person and be like okay, Iknow some of my friends.
They have work, but they makespace and they find the time,
but they're competent and I needI need to bring them in.
(22:59):
So let me find out how much Ican put my hands on, because I
know we don't need much to dosomething not to do the biggest
of thing, but to do something.
So I've got to put my hands onsome of the money and it was
very clear I can.
I just break down a plan.
I'm like okay, we want tocommunicate about the movie, we
want to do this, we want to dothis, we want to do stints, we
(23:20):
want to.
So they, of course.
You know how we are, becausenow the artist comes in play and
you come with 3 000 ids, whichis great.
But at some point you also needto use your other brain and
break it down so that you canhave something that is
consistent, because at the endof the day, there is so much
things we want to do, but if youdon't have that one brain that
(23:40):
always you know, steps back andgo.
Okay, we all enthusiastic today, but the movie comes out in a
year and we need we need tochill the fuck out, because if
we don't do that, all theenthusiasm is going to be gone
in two months.
So this one's going to be onholiday, this one is going to be
(24:02):
on another project, this one isgoing to be depressed and what
makes today amazing will feelfrustrating.
So I think the most importantwas okay, let's make a plan and
give people some responsibility.
Let's also break down positions.
We're not all doing the same.
(24:22):
So I had a great person.
I mean, I had someone to takearchives, videos, so that we
don't think every day, ah, maybewe should shoot this.
No, just film everything, andthen you archive and I'm going
to budget that for you.
And then I had like a filmmakerto take things that are more
neat and clean and always havingthat communication group to for
(24:45):
everybody to remind ourselves,okay, when is, when is the next
time it's important for, andalways having that communication
group for everybody to remindourselves, okay, when is the
next time it's important forthat person to be there.
Then I had this photographerwho was also great at making
reels for socials, and that'salso something.
Sometimes it's about ping pong.
As we were busy, some peoplefrom our entourage were like,
(25:05):
guys, what are you doing?
It's amazing.
I would even come on set forfree, and then for me to be the
person that I am is like okay,this person is great, we forgot
about him.
He wants to come for free.
I'm gonna make him even moreenthusiastic to be here.
I'm gonna find money so thathe's here for money and now I
can plan him for a longer period.
(25:27):
So I had him also as aphotographer making reels.
Then one of the most importantperson is this graphic designer,
who was actually also one ofour best friend, yannick, and
who was actually like the visualdirector for most of our
project when it comes to putthings online and communication,
(25:50):
which was easy to have on board.
If you have this trio, yannick,ish, for us it's easy.
It's like you do somethingtomorrow, I will support.
You do something tomorrow, Iwill support.
And I think that base isactually also the core of why it
was easy.
It's not so much about havingan amazing plan or being able to
(26:12):
bring the right money at theright place is also because that
friendship in this setup waseasy to plan.
And then for me, with mystrength, to go in because, for
example, yannick I'm going togive you a simple example and
everybody has those people intheir lives that are great at
what they do and that will dowhatever you want and they will
never ask for money.
(26:32):
Even if you plan money for them, they won't make the invoice.
They understand that they'regoing to get paid and they
didn't say no, but they justdon't make the invoice.
So you have that one person.
My thing is, I don't care howyou are, because at some point I
will have to put pressure onyou, so I will remind you every
(26:54):
day that you are paid.
That's very important because,at the end of the day, it's a
friendship project, it's afamily project, but you need
that person that is able toremind everybody hey, don't
worry, we, we in this together.
But sometimes frustration willarise and sometimes we're going
to go direction.
Maybe you don't want to go andthe reminder is we're still
going somewhere.
We all want to go.
(27:15):
It's just not always theperfect direction for everybody.
But you committed, and I alsocommitted, by saying I'm going
to get some budget for you, I'mgoing to do this and we're going
to get somewhere together.
That's the story of it.
I'm trying to be as transparentand complete because, as I said
(27:35):
, my number one strength was notto know which envelope I was
able to put my hands on.
But now to come back to some ofyour questions, which is where
can you go, find the money?
Where, actually, there isactually a lot of grants for
that.
You can get 10K, 5k, 2k, 1k forparts of pre-production,
post-production production alsothat are related to
(27:57):
communication or marketing, andthose are quite easy to find.
It's just obviously when itcomes to the movie industry or
theater industry or whatever.
You get to ask your questionswhen you don't know nothing
about, which in a lot of cases,I'm never afraid to say I don't
know nothing about.
But then you just get that onemeeting.
You go to places where peopleare going to give you the
(28:19):
answers quite easily.
Some houses are very open forstuff like that.
People that plan, do programAAC or do communication for
places.
If you go to KVS, there is thisamazing guy called Sébastien
Parizel.
You get in contact with him.
You go on the KVS website.
You're going to find his name.
You're going to say, oh, Iwould love, this is who I am.
I'm Cindy Klaas.
(28:39):
I did this, this, this I wouldwhere to get grants.
I was going to get a coffeenext week with you.
It's just this matter of we gotto open the doors that we have
for one another in order forpeople like you and me, because
we are late when I see howaccessible everything is today.
(29:02):
If we had half of this when Iwas 15, call me Spielberg.
If we had half of this when Iwas 15, call me Spielberg.
It's just this thing where wedidn't have access to anything
and we were not in a countrythat has an industry of dream,
just to compare to not to saythat America is great, but in
that note, you can have nothingand feel like you can have
(29:23):
everything tomorrow.
That doesn't mean you're goingto have it in one day, but the
dream feels real.
Here you have to believe in you,not in the dream.
I don't know if you see whatI'm trying to say there.
I feel like the perspective,something that you can reach
towards, is more physical andsomething that you can put a
(29:46):
vision to, and here I believeit's more about you.
I've seen other things andmostly it's not from here, but I
believe in me and I'm going topush for myself.
And then you get in front of alot of walls here and then
eventually you have to do whatyou do.
You got to go to Spain, you gotto go to London.
You got to go because there isnot enough for who you are here.
(30:07):
That's what I believe.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're kind of
saying is in countries wherethere are a lot of opportunities
, the dream is more tangiblebecause some people have already
physicalized it in this world,whereas in Belgium we are very
often in the position of we'regoing to pioneer it here in
Belgium because the resourcesare absolutely not the same.
(30:30):
It's a small country, you know,there's less support for
entrepreneurship and so forth,so you have to be the one that
truly believes in your skills,because you're going to be the
first Belgian that is going tomake it happen.
But we can't say, hey, we livein a country where everything
has been tangible, has been madea reality.
We've seen it made real inother countries, but not in ours
(30:52):
yet.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
That's very true.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
So I want to bounce back on a couple of stuff that
you've said about setting upyour team for the behind the
scenes.
Something that reallytranspires here in the things
that you're sharing, is you area people's person.
You really try to find thoseanswers and put a team together
that is aligned.
You talk a lot about, I think,trust.
You know it's a family project.
(31:15):
It's based on previousconnections, like we have
similar values.
Trust is important in thecollaborative process.
So you had sort of a departmentthat was in charge of archives
film whatever there is to film.
You have sort of a departmentthat was in charge of archives
film whatever there is to film.
You have sort of a departmentthat is focused on film,
specific moments which are beingdiscussed in advance.
(31:35):
You have a guy that is incharge of social media short
sort of mixes, so that'severything is following on
social media.
You have another departmentthat is about photography and
taking photos of behind thescenes, and then you have
somebody that is a graphicdesigner you also talk about.
(31:56):
Okay, we need to communicateabout the movie afterwards and
one of the things we need tocommunicate is this enthusiasm.
We need to capture theenthusiasm which you can only
capture when there is momentum,like in one year time.
You don't live the things thesame way, right?
Um, what is it when you werethinking, okay, there are
specific moments we need to filmin the behind the scenes?
(32:19):
How did you decide what thosemoments were so that you would
communicate about the film andabout the enthusiasm?
What was your creative processaround that?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
let's just be honest.
It's this project is veryspecific.
I hired one of my best friendsas responsible for extras, so
he's on set every day.
I hired one of my best friends,nordin, as assistant.
(32:51):
He was second assistant to thestylist, so he was responsible
to bring the costume trucks onset every day, so he was present
every day.
My director is my best friend.
It's already three people.
I'm producer, I'm almost everyday on set.
It's already four people Nowthat photographer and that video
(33:14):
maker.
One said I want to be thereevery day for free, so that was
also easy and he's a friend, soit happened.
That happens to make it fivepeople, with each of them a
possibility for time to dosomething.
At the end of the day you haveall your friends.
You end up being seven, eightfriends every day on set
(33:35):
together, and before because myteam for the casting was my
friends, my team on set was myfriend and in post-prediction
and communication team is myfriends.
So eventually it's not justfriends.
And we can't handle a camera.
One of them is a camera guy,one of them is a photographer,
one of them is a graphicdesigner.
(33:55):
So every day we get the chanceto ping pong one another Every
day, we get the chance.
If he came with his camera, youdon't even have to tell him to
shoot.
When we're talking he'sshooting.
And obviously that's a briefing, but that's a briefing.
He already told himself when hesaid I want to be there every
day, I want to make reels.
And then, being blessed by allthat, I put up a plan.
(34:19):
I was like, okay, we shoot.
Now it's October 2023.
Within a year, this movie isgoing to come out.
Let's make a plan.
I'm going to find partners.
I have, with the other things Ido, contacts with clients and
potential sponsors.
Let me try and grab some moneythere.
(34:40):
Then we have some productplacement.
You're going to see if youwatch our reels, they often show
this car at some point.
Is this thing?
Because, um, I was trying to.
Basically, I had that collabfor the artist.
I managed and then I entered themovie and I'm like, okay, but
that's a movie they might beinterested in this.
(35:01):
Then I discussed with myproducer and I'm like, can I
have the breakdown of all thecosts on set?
And then one of the costs wasrentals of cars to bring in the
actors, to go for the runnersand everything.
I was like, okay, how much isit?
And then I see the price.
I'm like, let me see if I canfix.
And then I could fix via thesponsor, free cars.
(35:24):
So I was sparing money and thenthat was those were arguments
that helped me and having thatsponsor to lower the cost.
But then to also say, ah, wouldyou be interested to have the
car in the movie?
Oh yeah, and how much this isthis?
Okay, let me see.
And then I could get a budgetfor communication, but then
showing also the car incommunication.
(35:46):
So basically, as the days wouldmove, I was always like my brain
was always running fromproducer to manager to
communication head, and thatexercise, I think, was what
enabled me to unlock, day by day, the plan and to review the
(36:11):
plan and then to be comfortableabout the plan.
Because obviously when it'slong, you're going to question
your plan.
You're going to have thatmeeting where people want to
change everything.
You're going to say, oh, thatwas great, I wanted to work with
you.
But eventually that person isactually not was overselling
themselves, so you have toadjust.
(36:32):
But then to a certain after acertain point, you're like, okay
, I've learned so much and thisfeels right, so we're going to
stick to this and from now on,okay, let's try to to just stick
to this, also because of budget, because of course, we can keep
on making and making, but atsome point the arrangements you
made and the money you were ableto grab, it stops.
(36:53):
And then you got to work withthat reality.
So that's what I did and then,from that moment on, I was like,
okay, I have to answer to theprediction house and the money
that I grabbed there, to thesponsor and the money that I
grabbed there, and eventually,if we want to put some money in,
I look at my own predictionhouse do we want to do extra, do
we want to put money in or do Igo and seek for other money?
(37:13):
So that was my template, andthen I would break it down to
socials.
What is the line that theproducer and the distributor are
going to talk about in terms ofpress, in terms of when the
first trailer or teaser aregoing to come out?
And are they going to talkabout in terms of press, in
terms of when the first traileror teaser are going to come out,
and are they going to invest inGorya shoots in the streets,
(37:38):
things that you can't domarketing.
There's a lot of things thatwe've learned and that were
possible that you come across.
And then from all thoseelements, you'd be like okay,
I'm going to do this, set up aplan.
Our main force at the end waslike okay, we're going to have
our line, which is going to bewe're going to put up an
Instagram and a Facebook.
(37:59):
We're going to use the strengththat we have, one of them being
we have one of our directorsthat is pretty famous in the
Flemish part of Belgium.
His voice needs to matter.
It's his movie.
He has to carry it to a certainpoint, but he doesn't have to
feel like it's only his voice.
The movie has to have its ownidentity and he can support it
(38:20):
so that it doesn't become likehe has to do everything.
And that's how we came up tookay, let's do this big set of
movie.
Let's make reels first, let'stease people, let's involve
because you talk often aboutduring the process, what was the
artistic plan?
Basically, I think from themoment I was on set, I was like
okay, you see how much extras wehave, you see how much fun they
(38:42):
have.
A lot of them had a lot ofexperience on sets.
But most of them had a lot ofexperience on sets, but most of
them would say people never talkto us, we don't get to hear a
proper hi or goodbye at the endhere.
Every time on set we wouldthank the extras, we would say
how special they are, we wouldtake pictures of them and then
(39:03):
post it on Facebook, tagging allof them.
But that's because myresponsible for extras knew each
and every single one of themand we listed them, because we
have more than 300 extras in themovie and we would list each
and every one of them and wewould add name and everything.
Because you got to make thequick claims and then I was like
(39:24):
, okay, then add the Instagram,because then we know already
when we have pictures we can tagthem, because then they're
going to repost and then in thecomments we know what to say.
And I have to make myresponsible for extras also
someone from communication,because this guy is actually
very essential to those peoplethat are also going to attract
their own community.
(39:45):
If you have 300 extras, thatmakes maybe 600 people that are
going to come see your movie.
I like to think on little scalesbecause I don't believe I will
be responsible for a movie tobecome a blockbuster.
I believe we have anopportunity for everybody that
can be close to us not to missthe movie.
(40:10):
You know, sometimes we comeacross our project in life and
and we we go too fast and weforget to invite the people that
should actually be there.
And we perform for those peoplethat are actually the least
connected to what we've gonethrough and the artists that we
have become.
And a project like this onereally gave us and me the
(40:32):
opportunity in that position notbeing the artist, because
that's also super important,because as artists it's always
too complicated to think ofeverything to be able to remind
everybody about that everysingle time.
I think my main quote lately tomy team is yes, we applied to
the festivals, but now theconversation is only about the
(40:56):
festivals, that it seems like wefailed.
If we don't get in thefestivals, can you guys remind
yourselves that we are making amovie?
That's my main quote.
It's like I don't give a fuckabout the that we are making a
movie.
That's my main quote.
It's like I don't give a fuckabout the festivals.
We made a movie.
Cherry on the cake, let's get inthe festivals, but let's not
make it our main conversation,and that's the same take I have
(41:19):
and had about the communication.
So every day I would come, Iknew I had people that had the
energy to do something Icouldn't do on myself, when we
artists we want to do everythingbecause we don't have the
resources, and here I knew I wasbringing the resources, which
was our people with theirquality.
So now I don't believe we havelike the perfect plan or
(41:40):
anything, but at least we have aplan and I feel that we are
consistent and I feel like, evenif it's long, that as long as
we stick to that plan, whateveris extra to what we plant is the
cherry on the cake, but that wedon't have to change the plan
and that is those are.
We had some frictions, um, aboutoh, it's been a while we didn't
(42:02):
post and this and that, becausepeople got excited about what
happened in the very earlystages of having a reel out and
oh, a lot of people have seen itand everybody's excited, but of
course the movie's not comingout before a year.
Can we calm out the, the horsesand and, and you know, be
pragmatic and we also don't wantto get people annoyed with our
(42:25):
project is like, after one yearof yeah, they accept, they
accept, they accept, is it thesmart thing to do?
I decided not to think likethat.
I was like maybe it's not, butit's our first movie, so let's
just celebrate for one year I'mgonna regroup it.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I think it's important what you said about
when to post, because we want topost about what we've just done
, because social media issomething about what is
happening in the moment.
However, when we have a film,it takes so much time to go into
post-production and you need tocreate a buzz just before it's
coming out, not just after youcame out of production, which is
(43:04):
obviously when that enthusiasmthat you're talking about is the
highest.
But you need to create thatbuzz a bit later on for your
audiences.
So when to post needs to bestrategic.
You were also talking aboutshould we talk about it for a
year or not?
I just want to mention oneexample.
Do you remember the LXD fromJohn Chu Legion of Extraordinary
(43:26):
Dancers?
So, for those that don't knowit, it's a series that John Chu,
a director, created withdancers, so the lead characters
were dancers.
Part of the majority of thenarrative was told through dance
.
But actually that guy wastalking about the fact that the
LXD was coming out for I thinkabout a year before there was
(43:47):
anything to show.
So he made the buzz just himtalking about how excited he was
about it, and I will alwaysremember that marketing campaign
because, you know, the LXDbecame something massive.
It's probably now a decade agoor something, but his strategy
to communicate was veryinnovative back in the days.
I'm going to regroup what yousaid before.
(44:09):
So there was no particular planfor the behind the scenes.
You do, however, make budgetavailable, so you're saving
money right, left and center.
You bring in sponsors.
You make budget availablebecause you know that the behind
the scenes is important.
You know that that will helpcommunication for the movie.
From my understanding, it's the.
(44:31):
What you were filming was kind,was collaborative and it also
kept kind of shifting andtweaking on set while you were
going through the process.
There was a part of it that wasa bit like okay, we're, we're
going to do it a tiny bit ofguerrilla style.
Some things will be verycurated for Instagram, facebook
shorts.
Yes, we're going to give avoice to the director because
(44:54):
there is some fame attached tothe director, but we don't just
want to give fame to you know,we don't just want to draw our
marketing based on the fame ofthe director.
The movie is actually aboutcommunity the story of the
director.
The movie is actually aboutcommunity the story of the movie
, but then also the way you setup the team, the way you did the
casting, the way you broughtpeople in was all about
(45:15):
community building.
So you wanted to also thebehind the scenes, to be for the
community by the community, andgive a voice to the people that
we might never hear about,because it's going to have a
ripple effect, such as reallyhighlighting the work of the
extras and so forth, and give anidentity to the movie.
(45:37):
Am I summarizing it well?
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Completely.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Okay.
So then my next question isonce you're going to start
posting these behind the scenes,what is the main message or the
main kind of buzz that you hopewill be created from all the
behind the scenes that you'vebeen filming?
(46:02):
Once that comes out, what doyou hope to make future
audiences feel or want to knowmore about?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
it's a great question because and you saw, from the
moment I heard it made me smile.
It made me smile because Idon't allow myself to plan or to
think about this from theperspective of buzz, because
every time we try to do that andI'm talking about my close
(46:34):
circle those times have been thetimes we we actually doubt the
most, question ourselves themost, don't understand what
we're doing and basically losethe essence of our qualities.
And from the moment I step faraway from that idea.
It doesn't mean that it alwayssucceeds, but at least I feel
(46:58):
very close to what works for meBecause obviously, time advance,
everything changed, peoplepeople change.
Youth is not the same.
Connect people are connected adifferent way and you don't, you
can't understand everybody thesame way.
But I like to apply Tomorrowyou're going to have a brand and
(47:40):
a client is going to call anagency so that they can bring in
influencers, make sure there isbuzz around the event.
I completely understand, makescomplete sense.
It's not something I don't wantto do.
I just don't want to do it in ageneric way.
I don't want to do it like that.
I will bring in so-calledinfluencers, but people that are
(48:02):
still close to the product,people that are close to the
people close to the product.
Because at some point Iremember going to events where
everybody was amazed.
And now I'm going to eventswhere everybody is there to pick
the food, the drink, the goodieand go, the drink the goodie
(48:31):
and go, and that translates inin that final product that looks
glamorous and amazing because,of course, you get amazing
content, makers who are going tomake you believe that was the
event of the year.
And the first time and secondtime and 10 times we've seen
that we all looked at it withthis.
It's amazing, and now itdoesn't touch us anymore.
It's like let's go to the nextone.
This has become the normal, sowe only want to see the next one
(48:55):
and we still need to see it.
So I'm not saying it doesn'twork, but now it has been
anesthetized and it's okay.
Who's going to come with thenext thing?
And I still believeauthenticity will always be the
next thing.
So, from the moment I set mybrain because, like you said and
summarized, there was no planat first until there was a plan
(49:19):
Now, for example, when it comesto the documentary and the
direction it's taking, for meit's like you have like the
common way to do what behind thescene or after movie.
And then there is what do you,what are you excited about when
you look at a documentary?
Netflix are making amazingdocumentaries.
What are you going to graspfrom that?
(49:40):
And then make it your ownidentity.
So so in a sense I was like,okay, what is the movie about
and what?
Obviously the movie is not out,so what can we talk about?
That is not in the movie?
What can't we talk about andwhat is the movie about?
And at the end of the day wewere like, oh, but there are so
many subjects in the movie.
(50:00):
The movie tackles sports andfighting sports.
The movie tackles music.
In a sense, we had the chance torecord the music with a
component, uh, jean-luc favechan and to record at the
brussels philharmonic.
So it feels grand.
(50:22):
Yeah, we were very, very luckythat something else from
production side and what we wereable to bring on the movie.
But yeah, there is an arc ofthe music which actually doesn't
really match with the movie wemade.
It's really like a how do youcall it?
It's a genre of movie, it's afilm d'auteur, it doesn't need
(50:46):
grand music, but we couldn'tskip the opportunity.
So it was at the end like theenthusiasm again, like yeah, we
have the Philharmonic blah blahbecame sort of a problem when we
came to post and watch fits andobviously you have a composer
that had made crazy, amazingmusic, but then you have to
fight with him to say, but weneed to touch this and this
(51:08):
needs to.
But that's not how it goes.
But that was actually a greatexperience, even though those
moments were not that great.
But basically there is this arcof music that we still want to
put forward.
I was able to sit down with thecomposer.
I was able to sit down with thecomposer, I was able to sit
down with the conductor, I wasable to sit down with one of the
vocalists who does opera, andthen we were able to be at the
(51:32):
Philharmonics and to shoot these60 musicians playing for the
score, like authentic score forthe movie.
So there is the arc of the music.
There is an arc for Brussels.
There is something that is waymore neat where I just want to
show in that episode Brussels,very silent, no discussion.
(51:57):
It's just we're going to shootBrussels from a perspective that
we believe is beautiful,because even though Belgium and
Brussels can be gray.
It's still a place we love andthat's now an opportunity to
create an episode that touchesit that way.
And then there is the fifth one.
How was this possible?
(52:18):
So it's our internal team, andit's like this episode about
these people that are friendsand I made a movie together.
That's actually for each of theepisodes, like, for example,
the activism, we have a scene inthe movie that is a
manifestation in English.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
A protest.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
A protest for women to be able to wear the hijab,
and that scene and that personin the movie is inspired by
someone we know that we had beenin contact before the movie and
that has an association thatfights for that.
(53:02):
Actually she's even in themovie.
Now she's not playing her,she's playing the assistant of
who she is in real life and thenwe wanted to interview her and
interview her about her work andwhat they did, how it helped,
and then to make this mirrorwith what we try to do in the
movie and the same with the MMRthat has a small place in the
(53:25):
movie.
We also met with the coach ofthe national team of Belgium of
MMA and then he was actually thecoach of our main actor in
order to get ready for the movie.
Eventually we with the wholeteam went to give two fights of
two of the people he trained.
We developed a friendship.
(53:45):
So it's like real life facingour movie.
One of the important sparringpartners in the movie in the
important fight is actually areal MMA fighter who is actually
now growing like crazy fromBelgium.
I met him two years ago in Cuba.
I was like this guy is likeDrago in Rocky IV and our actor
(54:10):
is like small and this guy ishuge.
And I remember my director waslike, no, he's too big.
And I was like, but that'sentertainment, that's what we
need.
So I fought to bring that guyin.
Eventually we all saw it onscreen.
Everybody's like that's you.
You know, sometimes you try tobe too real when you do film,
dot earth, but you still have toremember we had the movies.
(54:31):
We need to have that spark ofdream.
So, yeah, that's what?
That?
That's the angle of the behindthe scenes, which is less about
shooting the movie, because atsome point I think our reels on
set were showing that enough.
And if we would come again withthat in a little documentary,
(54:52):
it would be like, oh, it's nice,it's another format, but it's
the same.
And we understood.
And now we know you guys, andwe've seen you guys, and I
thought, okay, this angle isactually what we'll be missing.
It's okay, this angle isactually what we'll be missing.
It's oh, we have the finalproduct, but how did you come to
that?
And then we chose those arcs tobe like okay, let's talk about
(55:14):
those things that we believe areinteresting and important.
Even though not the main themesof the movie.
They are important themes andthat's something that now we are
entering montage, the editingof this, so that this summer we
can share that.
But in terms of buzz, it's thisthing where, okay, we we
(55:35):
contact some instances but atthe end of the day, after all
these years being in Belgium,I'm like I believe we are
stronger with our reach than ifwe would have those entities
that we run behind them and it'srelevant.
(55:57):
It's not relevant, oh, maybe,and you lose a lot of energy to
eventually have it in a way thatis not giving you the most
strength.
And if you just put it outyourself, I mean, we were
surprised putting our firstreels out to have 20 Ks of of
visibility just from a page thatwas just starting off, just by
(56:18):
sharing and having the supportof everybody, and to have this
consistency now where most ofour reels have minimum 20, 20 K
views.
We like, we like, okay, there'sa consistency here.
There are people that areinterested and curious and it is
stable and we are smart enoughto change the content and to
bring new information at times,knowing that we don't have to
(56:40):
put too much and knowing thatthere are moments some might get
annoyed and move on and then wemight attract new ones.
I think it's.
It's the journey we believe inand, at the end of the day, now
one of the next steps now we'rebusy with the cast reveal.
Uh, starting from next week, Ithink, we have the poster that's
going to come out, and then thetrailer is going to come out,
(57:01):
and then we have this littledocumentary.
Then we we have like a stuntthat I believe in from since the
very beginning, where everybodythinks I'm crazy, but in my
head I'm like, yeah, but I thinkit's dope that we're going to
do the month prior to the event.
And it's just this thing of,okay, you have a few ideas and
then you just stay steady andyou believe in consistency and
(57:29):
whatever results you have, likeI'm happy.
Like I check every comment andI answer to every comment.
Just just be happy with the one.
Remember that one person isimportant, because if you just
think, oh, we need to have 10000, then you forget about those
little things.
So that's, that's where mybrain is.
So I don't believe I have theperfect plan and I also don't
believe in having this thing toapply like in a company, because
(57:53):
that's not.
Then you don't need me.
I'm good to bring in the team,I'm good to lead the team and to
stick to the plan.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
Thank you so much, yves, because I learned a lot
about the thought process behindit.
I totally understand that everyproject has probably their
organic way of creating a planfor these behind the scenes, but
I think you shared a lot ofgems about what went through
your mind and how you sort ofapproached it in various
creative ways, so I feel veryenriched after this interview.
(58:28):
So thank you so much.
If people want to know moreabout you as an artist, want to
know more about you as aproducer, where can they find
you?
On social media?
Or do you have a website?
And as well, is there perhaps alink we can follow to know more
about BXL, the movie?
Speaker 2 (58:44):
Of course, on social media for BXL the movie know
more about BXL the Movie.
Of course, on social media forBXL the Movie, it's BXL the
Movie.
You can find it on Instagram,bxl the Movie and on Facebook.
So that's for the movie.
For myself, it's just Yves Rutt.
On social media, you can findme on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (59:00):
Thank you so much, Yves.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
Thank you and all the best for BXL the movie.
Speaker 2 (59:06):
For you too, and I hope to also see more of your
work.
I've sent you a messagerecently, and I really mean what
I said, so I only wish the bestfor you.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Thank you.
Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast.
Today we are going to talkabout the documentation of the
behind the scenes of ourprojects.
Now, why am I doing an episodeabout the behind the scenes?
Well, it's very simple.
Actually, I messed up For myfirst short film.
We were so in ecstasy to makingthis short film happening that
(00:25):
we actually failed to plan todocument the behind the scenes.
Also, throughout my career as adance choreographer, theater
maker, often we didn't have thebudget to really document what
was happening behind the scenes.
So I invited a guest who reallymade something very special.
(00:46):
He was a producer for a film andthey put a lot of energy, a lot
of creative thinking into howthey were going to document the
behind the scenes of thisamazing feature film.
Now he is a co-founder of LEADLive to Express a Dream.
He's also the co-founder ofUntold Stories, a production
house.
He's based in Belgium.
(01:07):
He has a background in danceand choreography, but also in
writing, in theater.
Now in film he's also aproducer.
He's a multi-talented,multi-skilled human being.
Please welcome Yves Ruth.
Hi, yves, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Hi, cindy, I'm doing great.
Thank you, that's an amazingintroduction.
Thank you, I feel honored to beon your podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I'm super excited to talk to you today, to learn and
to not repeat my previousmistakes.
So first of all, before westart to go into how you created
the behind the scenes of thismovie, which is called BXL the
movie, or BXL the movie that iscoming out end of the year, can
you first tell us a little bitabout you, about who you are as
(01:52):
an artist, the different thingsthat you get involved in on a
daily basis, what you'repassionate about, and so forth.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Let me do this in a sort of a nutshell and I'd like
to entertain myself, because weget in those places where people
ask us this question and thenwe become redundant.
I would say that I'm a personthat is in love with people,
even though it comes with risks,obviously, because you can lose
(02:21):
yourself to people.
You can lose yourself to people, but that's my driving force in
the sense that I'm a very I do.
I have this sense of analysis.
I like to break down asituation, a character, but not
just for the purpose of breakingit down, but so that we can
(02:43):
come up to a better outcome orto find solutions.
Let's just say it like that.
So that's the base of who I amand basically I've been a dancer
, not currently a professionaldancer anymore.
Once a dancer, always a dancer,but not as a profession.
I enjoy being a choreographer.
That's something that stayswith me, even though I do it
(03:03):
less, because it uses that partof my brain that is about
conception and vision andbasically throughout my career,
what made me jump from aposition to another was the
respect, but also the questionsabout the person that was above.
As a dancer, I was questioningchoreographers because I didn't
(03:28):
think, or I didn't know, and Iwas wondering if it was the
right way.
So I had to become one in orderto understand better, to
respect better, but also to knowif I was right or if I could do
it.
And then, when I was achoreographer, I had that with
artistic directors, and when Iwas artistic director I had that
with producers and eventuallyit led me to go from a position
(03:50):
to another, to understand betterthe difficulties of the job,
but also it made me understandthat I love to do it.
Today my main occupations is Ido management for a few artists.
That's something that unlocked,because some people that I
groomed as artists developedinto multi-talented artists and
(04:14):
they needed guidance.
And then they came to me andthen we started a journey and
then another one came andanother one.
So that is something I'vestarted.
I'm doing production.
At the moment I'm stillproducing in post
post-prediction of this movie,but already on different
projects, and that's somethingthat is taking a little bit more
place in my life.
Right now.
I still do choreograph someproject, mostly commercial ones.
(04:38):
At the time I am part of theBelgium delegation for the
Eurovision.
Belgium has two sides, so I goonce every two years with the
Flemish part of Belgium asartistic director.
That's a position that I earnedlast year with Gustave, who
ended up seventh, and I used todo just choreographer or moving
(04:59):
director for the Eurovision forBelgium, and last year they
actually asked me to be theleader of that team as an
artistic director.
I've also done it for Belgium,and last year they actually
asked me to be the leader ofthat team.
As an artistic director, I'vealso done it for Holland.
So at this time there is thismulti-brain going.
One day, okay, I got to be amanager and then do as much as I
can to push my artistic side onthe side.
(05:21):
I still keep it because thathelps me understand my client,
but at the same time I have touse my other brain to protect,
to anticipate and to yeah,basically because I am also an
artist at heart, I kind ofabsorb everything the artist
should not be absorbing and thenI translate so that the artist
(05:45):
can strive and only get theright information.
In a nutshell, that's what I'mbusy with at the moment.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Let's say Thank you for sharing that, because I
think your background and yourstory shows how much
introspection is very importantif we want to develop our
leadership skills and also howyou kind of wearing different
hats, which is also you know.
It's a beautiful testimony ofhow you builded yourself as a
leader in this sector, in thisindustry as well.
(06:14):
Can you tell us a little bitmore about bxl, the movie?
Who was involved?
What is the the narrativebehind it?
What is the story?
Because you were a producer onthis project.
It's coming out end of the year.
It's a massive project becauseBelgium Belgium is not known to,
you know create massive movies,but this is a feature film
(06:36):
where there was a lot of effort,a lot of talent involved.
So please tell us a little bitmore about about movie itself.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So the project started with two, at first two
different screenwriters, and itwas going a certain direction.
And at some point the producerasked the screenwriters if they
were interested to get somescript doctoring and help, which
(07:03):
they were completely open about.
That's when the producer cameto bring in Ish Aitamu, who the
producer already had anexperience with on a short movie
.
Ish was interested, but he alsomentioned that at the moment he
was writing mostly with hisbrother, so that he would want
to bring him in.
So the story started there.
(07:25):
They wrote they kind of scriptdoctored in the very beginning,
and then it took a gooddirection and they started to
write together and at some pointteam a wanted to go left, team
b wanted to go right, and ishanand his brother they his brother
munir they felt okay, that wasyour project, so we don't want
(07:46):
to continue that road, so wewould just step out and just
finish the collaboration here.
But the producer actuallywanted to go right with them and
they, I do believe, did thebuyout of the first
screenwriters.
The movie took a different turn.
The movie is actually now youcan only say that it's been
(08:09):
inspired by what was forinitially the scenario, because
it's not the movie at all.
At first the movie was about itwas actually inspired by the
events of the how do you sayattentat in English?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Terrorist attacks.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, the terrorist attack in Molenbeek in Brussels,
and it was really in thatenvironment that we were telling
the story.
And the movie now is far fromthat.
It has hints of elements, butit's not about that anymore.
It's called Bake Cell becauseit's in the heart of Brussels.
It's called BXL because it's inthe heart of Brussels.
(08:44):
Bxl is a short version forBrussels in French, because it
has the X in the word in Frenchand that's how, in short, people
call it.
We call it BX or BXL and that'swhy the name.
So we see Brussels, we feelBrussels, the community that we
(09:06):
come across in it and that's whythe name.
So we see Brussels, we feelBrussels, the community that we
come across in it.
There is the Markham community,the Flemish community, the
Brussels community.
We really hear and feel Frenchand Flemish in the movie.
We follow the story of twobrothers, two brothers that
deeply love each other and thatare living different dreams At
(09:28):
the same time.
The little brother issupporting the dream of the
bigger brother and the storytalks about dreams, but also
about how dreams can, how yoursurroundings, how your
environment, your community,your culture can come in the way
(09:50):
sometimes of the dreams thatyou have.
And the question of is itpossible to dream when we come
from a certain background?
And those questions are veryvibrant in the movie because I
think a lot of youngsters thatcome from certain backgrounds
and don't know that there are somany outcomes before they get
to to get to those places, don'tknow if the reality of their
(10:15):
life would could allow them todream a certain way or to even
believe that there is certainoutcomes for them.
In nutshell, that's what themovie is about and I truly
believe that you can have a deepsensation of what it is to live
in Brussels as someone fromBrussels.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
And so now you guys are in post-production and
you're thinking about yourdistribution and all of that
kind of jazz.
How long was pre-production andhow long was the actual
production?
How many days were you actuallyon set shooting?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Start with the last questions, the easiest part.
So the shooting period wasabout a month.
It was like 24 days.
I think the dream scenariowould have been 28, to be chill.
Of course, you get 30.
But with 28, I think therewould have been a sense of
comfort.
(11:10):
And we know and you probablyknow when you're on set like
every second, every day counts.
So if you get that one more day, sometimes it means everything.
So with those 24 days, weactually managed to come to
something that we all feel veryproud of, despite the fact that,
obviously, when you finish withthe montage and you look at it,
(11:32):
ah, here you could have an Rand this and, but obviously
those are the things that youonly learn by doing your first,
and then it only gets better asyou go through the next project
first, and then it only getsbetter as you go through the
next project.
Um, pre-production, from themoment they started writing,
which was because of the story Itold a little earlier.
It took actually five years toget there because there was
(11:56):
other people and then you neededto change the narrative and
come to okay, now it's the new,the two brothers and from that
point on, to come up to that newscenario, which was different
to the first one, which alreadygot, like, the support for the
writing.
Now you got to have a newsupport for the writing, so the
process starts from scratchagain.
(12:16):
And then when you apply forsubsidiary the first time and
then they tell you no, but thenyou got to go for the next time,
all that stretches everything Icame into play.
So if you take that period offive years where I was actually
not involved on the project,come now to last year, let's say
at the end of the firsttrimester, the producer was
(12:36):
actually okay, we got the fundsand now we're going to go for
the other funds.
Because in Belgium that's howit goes you get the main funds
and then, from the moment youget those, you can apply for the
other ones.
It's like you get validated andnow you can apply for all the
funds and and people know, okay,the movie is going to happen.
Just a matter of time.
From that moment on, theproducer Potemkinu, a
(12:58):
Brussels-based production house,flemish production house, was
in discussions with the, the,about okay, I would usually work
with this producer, lineproducer, on the project before
and during the shoot, but thatperson is not going to be
available.
So I'm looking for someone else.
I don't have a name in mind yetand one of the directors, who
(13:21):
happens to be one of my greatfriends, was smart enough to ask
what was the job description,because at that time, being in
the project for five years, hekind of have developed that
reflex to go like what is thebest for me and to have that one
(13:50):
question that might put you ina better situation.
So he did ask the question andthe producer answered and he was
like oh shit, that's Yves.
And he was like oh, is thatsomeone from the movie industry?
He's like no, he never didmovies.
And the producer was a bitshocked and he was like OK, is
that someone from the movieindustry?
He's like no, he never didmovies.
The producer was a bit shockedand he was like okay, do you
mind to meet him?
And he was like okay, noproblem.
(14:10):
So we met.
He called me first.
He was like before you say no,because he knew I was in a
period where I was trying totake a little less work.
And it was like before you sayno, this is what happens.
Like before you say no, this iswhat happens.
Do you mind to meet.
I was like no, of course let'smeet and then we'll see.
And so I met with the producerand, what's funny, this happened
(14:32):
, I think two or three times inmy life.
It's a job interview but Iactually don't apply for the job
.
So they called me for somethingI didn't apply for and the
three times that happened in mylife it got reversed.
At the end it felt like I wasinterviewing them, because I
(14:52):
know I'm not there to lie.
I know what I'm able to do.
I can break down anyconversation and anticipate okay
, what's to come, what can I do,what can't I do.
Eventually, they were impressedwith the feedback, also because
I was able to talk aboutprojects that I've done, because
they need to know how do Ihandle situations that involve
(15:14):
money?
Did I ever handle budgets?
Did I handle big teams?
And they were actuallysurprised that on some projects
that I had, it is teams thatsometimes are bigger than on
some of the movies they workedon.
So they were impressed andtheir last feedback was okay,
it's actually a great interview.
We just still have to thinkbecause you don't have
(15:36):
experience in the movie industry, so we'll get back to you
within two weeks or whatever,say no problem, and I'll let you
know if I want to do it.
So I think that also hit them alittle bit.
And eventually two, two orthree days later they contacted
me and they told me okay, you'rethe guy, so you just have to
tell us if you want to do it andthen we can talk about the
budget.
So that's how the beginning oflast year started, and then I
(15:59):
jumped on the project because itfelt right, it's the movie of
my one, of my brother, with hisbrother and eventually, from
being that sort of co-producer,slash line producer, slash
assistant to directors, becauseI was really there to protect
them from themselves, becauseyou know what it is to be an
(16:19):
artist and to have to deal withpeople that are non-artistic and
that you depend on, it's justthis miscommunication that
sometimes is actually not aproblem.
There is nothing wrong in whatthey say.
It's just we are on a differentfrequency and we're not able to
hear something that has nothingto do with your artistry or if
people value you.
(16:40):
So, yeah, in that position Iwas able to anticipate a few
points that I saw.
Okay, here there is somethingthat is not fixed yet.
So we in pre-production had theopportunity to decide to do the
casting ourselves, because wewere supposed to hire a casting
agency and I did interview onewhich we were very interested in
(17:03):
.
There was this plan in thecollaborations that we wanted.
That was about trying to linkbrussels with brussels and work
with brussels-based entitiesthat are young, that are true to
themselves and that can benefitthe end product and try to make
it more relevant than somethinggeneric, and eventually we
(17:26):
decided that that was us.
We didn't know what, how to doit and eventually we did the
casting ourselves.
I hired my brother, whoactually did also cinema school
of, to be casting director and Imean we couldn't be more happy
with the casting that we haveand the gems that we found and
(17:46):
that led us to the month beforeshooting, which was about
meeting the whole team and thechiefs of departments in order
to understand what's the dynamicof the pre-production of that
specific shooting period.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Thank you so much for sharing all these details about
the process, because thispodcast is about the loud
whisper and it's also aboutclaiming our power back as
artists and really makingdecisions that are aligned with
ourselves, and I think youshared a lot of things of.
There were so many momentswhere both you and Ish and
everybody involved you werechecking in with yourself Is
(18:25):
this aligned?
Is this the best solution wecan take?
Is this really what you know,what our loud whisper is saying?
So thank you for sharing thesestories.
Let's talk about the behind thescenes.
So you had a massive project,let's say, to also archive and
document what's happening behindthe scenes.
So my first question is going tobe a boring question.
(18:48):
It's about budget.
Where did the budget come from?
Was that a part of themarketing budget?
Was that a specific grant thatyou applied for?
How did you finance?
Or was that part of yourdistribution budget?
Like if an artist was to say,okay, I need to ask money to
document my behind the scenes.
What's the best way to find thefunds to make it happen?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
There are different stages to the answer.
First of all, the question isfar from boring.
My answer might be more boringthan the question, but let's say
I didn't have a blueprint or Ididn't know all the answers at
first.
Um, I knew I was on the project.
I knew I was on my bestfriend's movie, which is the
(19:35):
best start point, because I wasdetached enough to know okay,
I'm, I'm here anyways and I'mcomfortable, so my manpower is
already there.
Okay now, what are my strengths?
In that base scenario where Iactually don't know anything?
It's asking questions.
The producer also wants moneyto come in, so he already has
(19:59):
maybe a few answers that I cango pick in.
And then there is what Ibelieve works for myself.
So, going into those meetingswith the producer, peter from
Potemkino, I kind of learnedokay, there is a budget from
their side which is marketingand communication, and there are
those base scenarios thatProduction House do for every
(20:20):
movie they do.
That prediction house do forevery movie they do.
From the moment you get funds,there is a part of that money
that is allowed for that part.
Now it's just a matter of who'sin the team to discuss how much
and what to do in order to talkabout your movie.
Because, at the end of the day,what do companies do, old
(20:43):
companies.
They do a press event, theyprint flyers or posters or
billboards, they buy space forcommercials, they shoot
commercials.
We can break it down quiteeasily.
They do campaigns and then fromall the examples we can witness
(21:08):
and break down by ourselves,and then it's just a matter of
okay, now that you are in thebuilding, how much does it cost?
And then, huh, oh, to do aphoto shoot, you guys pay 60k.
I saw the photo shoot you didlast time.
It's nice, nice, we can do thesame quality.
We might not have to use 60Kand maybe, if it's 60K for the
(21:29):
whole communication but youwould have put it only in that
Can we break it down into.
And then it's going from ameeting to another to see where
I can put my hands on some money.
But mostly because, at the endof the day, I don't think my
best ability was when it comesto the behind the scenes.
I don't think my best abilitywas to find money for the behind
(21:51):
the scenes or for thecommunications that we wanted as
a team to make for the movie.
I think my best ability was tomake sure all the quality people
from our entourage that believethat they want to be on this
project.
But if I wasn't there, therewas no way to get in the project
(22:12):
.
Because how many times, cindy,have you been in a situation
where you could have been withpeople you believe are amazing,
but it was not in your hands asas an artist to bring in, or you
didn't have the knowledge atthe time to push so that it
would have been them instead ofother people, and then
eventually you witnessed shit.
It could have been better andit could have been better also
(22:38):
for my heart, so for having thepath that I have.
I was also in a great positionwhich was not artistic to be
that person and be like okay, Iknow some of my friends.
They have work, but they makespace and they find the time,
but they're competent and I needI need to bring them in.
(22:59):
So let me find out how much Ican put my hands on, because I
know we don't need much to dosomething not to do the biggest
of thing, but to do something.
So I've got to put my hands onsome of the money and it was
very clear I can.
I just break down a plan.
I'm like okay, we want tocommunicate about the movie, we
want to do this, we want to dothis, we want to do stints, we
(23:20):
want to.
So they, of course.
You know how we are, becausenow the artist comes in play and
you come with 3 000 ids, whichis great.
But at some point you also needto use your other brain and
break it down so that you canhave something that is
consistent, because at the endof the day, there is so much
things we want to do, but if youdon't have that one brain that
(23:40):
always you know, steps back andgo.
Okay, we all enthusiastic today, but the movie comes out in a
year and we need we need tochill the fuck out, because if
we don't do that, all theenthusiasm is going to be gone
in two months.
So this one's going to be onholiday, this one is going to be
(24:02):
on another project, this one isgoing to be depressed and what
makes today amazing will feelfrustrating.
So I think the most importantwas okay, let's make a plan and
give people some responsibility.
Let's also break down positions.
We're not all doing the same.
(24:22):
So I had a great person.
I mean, I had someone to takearchives, videos, so that we
don't think every day, ah, maybewe should shoot this.
No, just film everything, andthen you archive and I'm going
to budget that for you.
And then I had like a filmmakerto take things that are more
neat and clean and always havingthat communication group to for
(24:45):
everybody to remind ourselves,okay, when is, when is the next
time it's important for, andalways having that communication
group for everybody to remindourselves, okay, when is the
next time it's important forthat person to be there.
Then I had this photographerwho was also great at making
reels for socials, and that'salso something.
Sometimes it's about ping pong.
As we were busy, some peoplefrom our entourage were like,
(25:05):
guys, what are you doing?
It's amazing.
I would even come on set forfree, and then for me to be the
person that I am is like okay,this person is great, we forgot
about him.
He wants to come for free.
I'm gonna make him even moreenthusiastic to be here.
I'm gonna find money so thathe's here for money and now I
can plan him for a longer period.
(25:27):
So I had him also as aphotographer making reels.
Then one of the most importantperson is this graphic designer,
who was actually also one ofour best friend, yannick, and
who was actually like the visualdirector for most of our
project when it comes to putthings online and communication,
(25:50):
which was easy to have on board.
If you have this trio, yannick,ish, for us it's easy.
It's like you do somethingtomorrow, I will support.
You do something tomorrow, Iwill support.
And I think that base isactually also the core of why it
was easy.
It's not so much about havingan amazing plan or being able to
(26:12):
bring the right money at theright place is also because that
friendship in this setup waseasy to plan.
And then for me, with mystrength, to go in because, for
example, yannick I'm going togive you a simple example and
everybody has those people intheir lives that are great at
what they do and that will dowhatever you want and they will
never ask for money.
(26:32):
Even if you plan money for them, they won't make the invoice.
They understand that they'regoing to get paid and they
didn't say no, but they justdon't make the invoice.
So you have that one person.
My thing is, I don't care howyou are, because at some point I
will have to put pressure onyou, so I will remind you every
(26:54):
day that you are paid.
That's very important because,at the end of the day, it's a
friendship project, it's afamily project, but you need
that person that is able toremind everybody hey, don't
worry, we, we in this together.
But sometimes frustration willarise and sometimes we're going
to go direction.
Maybe you don't want to go andthe reminder is we're still
going somewhere.
We all want to go.
(27:15):
It's just not always theperfect direction for everybody.
But you committed, and I alsocommitted, by saying I'm going
to get some budget for you, I'mgoing to do this and we're going
to get somewhere together.
That's the story of it.
I'm trying to be as transparentand complete because, as I said
(27:35):
, my number one strength was notto know which envelope I was
able to put my hands on.
But now to come back to some ofyour questions, which is where
can you go, find the money?
Where, actually, there isactually a lot of grants for
that.
You can get 10K, 5k, 2k, 1k forparts of pre-production,
post-production production alsothat are related to
(27:57):
communication or marketing, andthose are quite easy to find.
It's just obviously when itcomes to the movie industry or
theater industry or whatever.
You get to ask your questionswhen you don't know nothing
about, which in a lot of cases,I'm never afraid to say I don't
know nothing about.
But then you just get that onemeeting.
You go to places where peopleare going to give you the
(28:19):
answers quite easily.
Some houses are very open forstuff like that.
People that plan, do programAAC or do communication for
places.
If you go to KVS, there is thisamazing guy called Sébastien
Parizel.
You get in contact with him.
You go on the KVS website.
You're going to find his name.
You're going to say, oh, Iwould love, this is who I am.
I'm Cindy Klaas.
(28:39):
I did this, this, this I wouldwhere to get grants.
I was going to get a coffeenext week with you.
It's just this matter of we gotto open the doors that we have
for one another in order forpeople like you and me, because
we are late when I see howaccessible everything is today.
(29:02):
If we had half of this when Iwas 15, call me Spielberg.
If we had half of this when Iwas 15, call me Spielberg.
It's just this thing where wedidn't have access to anything
and we were not in a countrythat has an industry of dream,
just to compare to not to saythat America is great, but in
that note, you can have nothingand feel like you can have
(29:23):
everything tomorrow.
That doesn't mean you're goingto have it in one day, but the
dream feels real.
Here you have to believe in you,not in the dream.
I don't know if you see whatI'm trying to say there.
I feel like the perspective,something that you can reach
towards, is more physical andsomething that you can put a
(29:46):
vision to, and here I believeit's more about you.
I've seen other things andmostly it's not from here, but I
believe in me and I'm going topush for myself.
And then you get in front of alot of walls here and then
eventually you have to do whatyou do.
You got to go to Spain, you gotto go to London.
You got to go because there isnot enough for who you are here.
(30:07):
That's what I believe.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're kind of
saying is in countries wherethere are a lot of opportunities
, the dream is more tangiblebecause some people have already
physicalized it in this world,whereas in Belgium we are very
often in the position of we'regoing to pioneer it here in
Belgium because the resourcesare absolutely not the same.
(30:30):
It's a small country, you know,there's less support for
entrepreneurship and so forth,so you have to be the one that
truly believes in your skills,because you're going to be the
first Belgian that is going tomake it happen.
But we can't say, hey, we livein a country where everything
has been tangible, has been madea reality.
We've seen it made real inother countries, but not in ours
(30:52):
yet.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
That's very true.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
So I want to bounce back on a couple of stuff that
you've said about setting upyour team for the behind the
scenes.
Something that reallytranspires here in the things
that you're sharing, is you area people's person.
You really try to find thoseanswers and put a team together
that is aligned.
You talk a lot about, I think,trust.
You know it's a family project.
(31:15):
It's based on previousconnections, like we have
similar values.
Trust is important in thecollaborative process.
So you had sort of a departmentthat was in charge of archives
film whatever there is to film.
You have sort of a departmentthat was in charge of archives
film whatever there is to film.
You have sort of a departmentthat is focused on film,
specific moments which are beingdiscussed in advance.
(31:35):
You have a guy that is incharge of social media short
sort of mixes, so that'severything is following on
social media.
You have another departmentthat is about photography and
taking photos of behind thescenes, and then you have
somebody that is a graphicdesigner you also talk about.
(31:56):
Okay, we need to communicateabout the movie afterwards and
one of the things we need tocommunicate is this enthusiasm.
We need to capture theenthusiasm which you can only
capture when there is momentum,like in one year time.
You don't live the things thesame way, right?
Um, what is it when you werethinking, okay, there are
specific moments we need to filmin the behind the scenes?
(32:19):
How did you decide what thosemoments were so that you would
communicate about the film andabout the enthusiasm?
What was your creative processaround that?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
let's just be honest.
It's this project is veryspecific.
I hired one of my best friendsas responsible for extras, so
he's on set every day.
I hired one of my best friends,nordin, as assistant.
(32:51):
He was second assistant to thestylist, so he was responsible
to bring the costume trucks onset every day, so he was present
every day.
My director is my best friend.
It's already three people.
I'm producer, I'm almost everyday on set.
It's already four people Nowthat photographer and that video
(33:14):
maker.
One said I want to be thereevery day for free, so that was
also easy and he's a friend, soit happened.
That happens to make it fivepeople, with each of them a
possibility for time to dosomething.
At the end of the day you haveall your friends.
You end up being seven, eightfriends every day on set
(33:35):
together, and before because myteam for the casting was my
friends, my team on set was myfriend and in post-prediction
and communication team is myfriends.
So eventually it's not justfriends.
And we can't handle a camera.
One of them is a camera guy,one of them is a photographer,
one of them is a graphicdesigner.
(33:55):
So every day we get the chanceto ping pong one another Every
day, we get the chance.
If he came with his camera, youdon't even have to tell him to
shoot.
When we're talking he'sshooting.
And obviously that's a briefing, but that's a briefing.
He already told himself when hesaid I want to be there every
day, I want to make reels.
And then, being blessed by allthat, I put up a plan.
(34:19):
I was like, okay, we shoot.
Now it's October 2023.
Within a year, this movie isgoing to come out.
Let's make a plan.
I'm going to find partners.
I have, with the other things Ido, contacts with clients and
potential sponsors.
Let me try and grab some moneythere.
(34:40):
Then we have some productplacement.
You're going to see if youwatch our reels, they often show
this car at some point.
Is this thing?
Because, um, I was trying to.
Basically, I had that collabfor the artist.
I managed and then I entered themovie and I'm like, okay, but
that's a movie they might beinterested in this.
(35:01):
Then I discussed with myproducer and I'm like, can I
have the breakdown of all thecosts on set?
And then one of the costs wasrentals of cars to bring in the
actors, to go for the runnersand everything.
I was like, okay, how much isit?
And then I see the price.
I'm like, let me see if I canfix.
And then I could fix via thesponsor, free cars.
(35:24):
So I was sparing money and thenthat was those were arguments
that helped me and having thatsponsor to lower the cost.
But then to also say, ah, wouldyou be interested to have the
car in the movie?
Oh yeah, and how much this isthis?
Okay, let me see.
And then I could get a budgetfor communication, but then
showing also the car incommunication.
(35:46):
So basically, as the days wouldmove, I was always like my brain
was always running fromproducer to manager to
communication head, and thatexercise, I think, was what
enabled me to unlock, day by day, the plan and to review the
(36:11):
plan and then to be comfortableabout the plan.
Because obviously when it'slong, you're going to question
your plan.
You're going to have thatmeeting where people want to
change everything.
You're going to say, oh, thatwas great, I wanted to work with
you.
But eventually that person isactually not was overselling
themselves, so you have toadjust.
(36:32):
But then to a certain after acertain point, you're like, okay
, I've learned so much and thisfeels right, so we're going to
stick to this and from now on,okay, let's try to to just stick
to this, also because of budget, because of course, we can keep
on making and making, but atsome point the arrangements you
made and the money you were ableto grab, it stops.
(36:53):
And then you got to work withthat reality.
So that's what I did and then,from that moment on, I was like,
okay, I have to answer to theprediction house and the money
that I grabbed there, to thesponsor and the money that I
grabbed there, and eventually,if we want to put some money in,
I look at my own predictionhouse do we want to do extra, do
we want to put money in or do Igo and seek for other money?
(37:13):
So that was my template, andthen I would break it down to
socials.
What is the line that theproducer and the distributor are
going to talk about in terms ofpress, in terms of when the
first trailer or teaser aregoing to come out?
And are they going to talkabout in terms of press, in
terms of when the first traileror teaser are going to come out,
and are they going to invest inGorya shoots in the streets,
(37:38):
things that you can't domarketing.
There's a lot of things thatwe've learned and that were
possible that you come across.
And then from all thoseelements, you'd be like okay,
I'm going to do this, set up aplan.
Our main force at the end waslike okay, we're going to have
our line, which is going to bewe're going to put up an
Instagram and a Facebook.
(37:59):
We're going to use the strengththat we have, one of them being
we have one of our directorsthat is pretty famous in the
Flemish part of Belgium.
His voice needs to matter.
It's his movie.
He has to carry it to a certainpoint, but he doesn't have to
feel like it's only his voice.
The movie has to have its ownidentity and he can support it
(38:20):
so that it doesn't become likehe has to do everything.
And that's how we came up tookay, let's do this big set of
movie.
Let's make reels first, let'stease people, let's involve
because you talk often aboutduring the process, what was the
artistic plan?
Basically, I think from themoment I was on set, I was like
okay, you see how much extras wehave, you see how much fun they
(38:42):
have.
A lot of them had a lot ofexperience on sets.
But most of them had a lot ofexperience on sets, but most of
them would say people never talkto us, we don't get to hear a
proper hi or goodbye at the endhere.
Every time on set we wouldthank the extras, we would say
how special they are, we wouldtake pictures of them and then
(39:03):
post it on Facebook, tagging allof them.
But that's because myresponsible for extras knew each
and every single one of themand we listed them, because we
have more than 300 extras in themovie and we would list each
and every one of them and wewould add name and everything.
Because you got to make thequick claims and then I was like
(39:24):
, okay, then add the Instagram,because then we know already
when we have pictures we can tagthem, because then they're
going to repost and then in thecomments we know what to say.
And I have to make myresponsible for extras also
someone from communication,because this guy is actually
very essential to those peoplethat are also going to attract
their own community.
(39:45):
If you have 300 extras, thatmakes maybe 600 people that are
going to come see your movie.
I like to think on little scalesbecause I don't believe I will
be responsible for a movie tobecome a blockbuster.
I believe we have anopportunity for everybody that
can be close to us not to missthe movie.
(40:10):
You know, sometimes we comeacross our project in life and
and we we go too fast and weforget to invite the people that
should actually be there.
And we perform for those peoplethat are actually the least
connected to what we've gonethrough and the artists that we
have become.
And a project like this onereally gave us and me the
(40:32):
opportunity in that position notbeing the artist, because
that's also super important,because as artists it's always
too complicated to think ofeverything to be able to remind
everybody about that everysingle time.
I think my main quote lately tomy team is yes, we applied to
the festivals, but now theconversation is only about the
(40:56):
festivals, that it seems like wefailed.
If we don't get in thefestivals, can you guys remind
yourselves that we are making amovie?
That's my main quote.
It's like I don't give a fuckabout the that we are making a
movie.
That's my main quote.
It's like I don't give a fuckabout the festivals.
We made a movie.
Cherry on the cake, let's get inthe festivals, but let's not
make it our main conversation,and that's the same take I have
(41:19):
and had about the communication.
So every day I would come, Iknew I had people that had the
energy to do something Icouldn't do on myself, when we
artists we want to do everythingbecause we don't have the
resources, and here I knew I wasbringing the resources, which
was our people with theirquality.
So now I don't believe we havelike the perfect plan or
(41:40):
anything, but at least we have aplan and I feel that we are
consistent and I feel like, evenif it's long, that as long as
we stick to that plan, whateveris extra to what we plant is the
cherry on the cake, but that wedon't have to change the plan
and that is those are.
We had some frictions, um, aboutoh, it's been a while we didn't
(42:02):
post and this and that, becausepeople got excited about what
happened in the very earlystages of having a reel out and
oh, a lot of people have seen itand everybody's excited, but of
course the movie's not comingout before a year.
Can we calm out the, the horsesand and, and you know, be
pragmatic and we also don't wantto get people annoyed with our
(42:25):
project is like, after one yearof yeah, they accept, they
accept, they accept, is it thesmart thing to do?
I decided not to think likethat.
I was like maybe it's not, butit's our first movie, so let's
just celebrate for one year I'mgonna regroup it.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I think it's important what you said about
when to post, because we want topost about what we've just done
, because social media issomething about what is
happening in the moment.
However, when we have a film,it takes so much time to go into
post-production and you need tocreate a buzz just before it's
coming out, not just after youcame out of production, which is
(43:04):
obviously when that enthusiasmthat you're talking about is the
highest.
But you need to create thatbuzz a bit later on for your
audiences.
So when to post needs to bestrategic.
You were also talking aboutshould we talk about it for a
year or not?
I just want to mention oneexample.
Do you remember the LXD fromJohn Chu Legion of Extraordinary
(43:26):
Dancers?
So, for those that don't knowit, it's a series that John Chu,
a director, created withdancers, so the lead characters
were dancers.
Part of the majority of thenarrative was told through dance
.
But actually that guy wastalking about the fact that the
LXD was coming out for I thinkabout a year before there was
(43:47):
anything to show.
So he made the buzz just himtalking about how excited he was
about it, and I will alwaysremember that marketing campaign
because, you know, the LXDbecame something massive.
It's probably now a decade agoor something, but his strategy
to communicate was veryinnovative back in the days.
I'm going to regroup what yousaid before.
(44:09):
So there was no particular planfor the behind the scenes.
You do, however, make budgetavailable, so you're saving
money right, left and center.
You bring in sponsors.
You make budget availablebecause you know that the behind
the scenes is important.
You know that that will helpcommunication for the movie.
From my understanding, it's the.
(44:31):
What you were filming was kind,was collaborative and it also
kept kind of shifting andtweaking on set while you were
going through the process.
There was a part of it that wasa bit like okay, we're, we're
going to do it a tiny bit ofguerrilla style.
Some things will be verycurated for Instagram, facebook
shorts.
Yes, we're going to give avoice to the director because
(44:54):
there is some fame attached tothe director, but we don't just
want to give fame to you know,we don't just want to draw our
marketing based on the fame ofthe director.
The movie is actually aboutcommunity the story of the
director.
The movie is actually aboutcommunity the story of the movie
, but then also the way you setup the team, the way you did the
casting, the way you broughtpeople in was all about
(45:15):
community building.
So you wanted to also thebehind the scenes, to be for the
community by the community, andgive a voice to the people that
we might never hear about,because it's going to have a
ripple effect, such as reallyhighlighting the work of the
extras and so forth, and give anidentity to the movie.
(45:37):
Am I summarizing it well?
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Completely.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Okay.
So then my next question isonce you're going to start
posting these behind the scenes,what is the main message or the
main kind of buzz that you hopewill be created from all the
behind the scenes that you'vebeen filming?
(46:02):
Once that comes out, what doyou hope to make future
audiences feel or want to knowmore about?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
it's a great question because and you saw, from the
moment I heard it made me smile.
It made me smile because Idon't allow myself to plan or to
think about this from theperspective of buzz, because
every time we try to do that andI'm talking about my close
(46:34):
circle those times have been thetimes we we actually doubt the
most, question ourselves themost, don't understand what
we're doing and basically losethe essence of our qualities.
And from the moment I step faraway from that idea.
It doesn't mean that it alwayssucceeds, but at least I feel
(46:58):
very close to what works for meBecause obviously, time advance,
everything changed, peoplepeople change.
Youth is not the same.
Connect people are connected adifferent way and you don't, you
can't understand everybody thesame way.
But I like to apply Tomorrowyou're going to have a brand and
(47:40):
a client is going to call anagency so that they can bring in
influencers, make sure there isbuzz around the event.
I completely understand, makescomplete sense.
It's not something I don't wantto do.
I just don't want to do it in ageneric way.
I don't want to do it like that.
I will bring in so-calledinfluencers, but people that are
(48:02):
still close to the product,people that are close to the
people close to the product.
Because at some point Iremember going to events where
everybody was amazed.
And now I'm going to eventswhere everybody is there to pick
the food, the drink, the goodieand go, the drink the goodie
(48:31):
and go, and that translates inin that final product that looks
glamorous and amazing because,of course, you get amazing
content, makers who are going tomake you believe that was the
event of the year.
And the first time and secondtime and 10 times we've seen
that we all looked at it withthis.
It's amazing, and now itdoesn't touch us anymore.
It's like let's go to the nextone.
This has become the normal, sowe only want to see the next one
(48:55):
and we still need to see it.
So I'm not saying it doesn'twork, but now it has been
anesthetized and it's okay.
Who's going to come with thenext thing?
And I still believeauthenticity will always be the
next thing.
So, from the moment I set mybrain because, like you said and
summarized, there was no planat first until there was a plan
(49:19):
Now, for example, when it comesto the documentary and the
direction it's taking, for meit's like you have like the
common way to do what behind thescene or after movie.
And then there is what do you,what are you excited about when
you look at a documentary?
Netflix are making amazingdocumentaries.
What are you going to graspfrom that?
(49:40):
And then make it your ownidentity.
So so in a sense I was like,okay, what is the movie about
and what?
Obviously the movie is not out,so what can we talk about?
That is not in the movie?
What can't we talk about andwhat is the movie about?
And at the end of the day wewere like, oh, but there are so
many subjects in the movie.
(50:00):
The movie tackles sports andfighting sports.
The movie tackles music.
In a sense, we had the chance torecord the music with a
component, uh, jean-luc favechan and to record at the
brussels philharmonic.
So it feels grand.
(50:22):
Yeah, we were very, very luckythat something else from
production side and what we wereable to bring on the movie.
But yeah, there is an arc ofthe music which actually doesn't
really match with the movie wemade.
It's really like a how do youcall it?
It's a genre of movie, it's afilm d'auteur, it doesn't need
(50:46):
grand music, but we couldn'tskip the opportunity.
So it was at the end like theenthusiasm again, like yeah, we
have the Philharmonic blah blahbecame sort of a problem when we
came to post and watch fits andobviously you have a composer
that had made crazy, amazingmusic, but then you have to
fight with him to say, but weneed to touch this and this
(51:08):
needs to.
But that's not how it goes.
But that was actually a greatexperience, even though those
moments were not that great.
But basically there is this arcof music that we still want to
put forward.
I was able to sit down with thecomposer.
I was able to sit down with thecomposer, I was able to sit
down with the conductor, I wasable to sit down with one of the
vocalists who does opera, andthen we were able to be at the
(51:32):
Philharmonics and to shoot these60 musicians playing for the
score, like authentic score forthe movie.
So there is the arc of the music.
There is an arc for Brussels.
There is something that is waymore neat where I just want to
show in that episode Brussels,very silent, no discussion.
(51:57):
It's just we're going to shootBrussels from a perspective that
we believe is beautiful,because even though Belgium and
Brussels can be gray.
It's still a place we love andthat's now an opportunity to
create an episode that touchesit that way.
And then there is the fifth one.
How was this possible?
(52:18):
So it's our internal team, andit's like this episode about
these people that are friendsand I made a movie together.
That's actually for each of theepisodes, like, for example,
the activism, we have a scene inthe movie that is a
manifestation in English.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
A protest.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
A protest for women to be able to wear the hijab,
and that scene and that personin the movie is inspired by
someone we know that we had beenin contact before the movie and
that has an association thatfights for that.
(53:02):
Actually she's even in themovie.
Now she's not playing her,she's playing the assistant of
who she is in real life and thenwe wanted to interview her and
interview her about her work andwhat they did, how it helped,
and then to make this mirrorwith what we try to do in the
movie and the same with the MMRthat has a small place in the
(53:25):
movie.
We also met with the coach ofthe national team of Belgium of
MMA and then he was actually thecoach of our main actor in
order to get ready for the movie.
Eventually we with the wholeteam went to give two fights of
two of the people he trained.
We developed a friendship.
(53:45):
So it's like real life facingour movie.
One of the important sparringpartners in the movie in the
important fight is actually areal MMA fighter who is actually
now growing like crazy fromBelgium.
I met him two years ago in Cuba.
I was like this guy is likeDrago in Rocky IV and our actor
(54:10):
is like small and this guy ishuge.
And I remember my director waslike, no, he's too big.
And I was like, but that'sentertainment, that's what we
need.
So I fought to bring that guyin.
Eventually we all saw it onscreen.
Everybody's like that's you.
You know, sometimes you try tobe too real when you do film,
dot earth, but you still have toremember we had the movies.
(54:31):
We need to have that spark ofdream.
So, yeah, that's what?
That?
That's the angle of the behindthe scenes, which is less about
shooting the movie, because atsome point I think our reels on
set were showing that enough.
And if we would come again withthat in a little documentary,
(54:52):
it would be like, oh, it's nice,it's another format, but it's
the same.
And we understood.
And now we know you guys, andwe've seen you guys, and I
thought, okay, this angle isactually what we'll be missing.
It's okay, this angle isactually what we'll be missing.
It's oh, we have the finalproduct, but how did you come to
that?
And then we chose those arcs tobe like okay, let's talk about
(55:14):
those things that we believe areinteresting and important.
Even though not the main themesof the movie.
They are important themes andthat's something that now we are
entering montage, the editingof this, so that this summer we
can share that.
But in terms of buzz, it's thisthing where, okay, we we
(55:35):
contact some instances but atthe end of the day, after all
these years being in Belgium,I'm like I believe we are
stronger with our reach than ifwe would have those entities
that we run behind them and it'srelevant.
(55:57):
It's not relevant, oh, maybe,and you lose a lot of energy to
eventually have it in a way thatis not giving you the most
strength.
And if you just put it outyourself, I mean, we were
surprised putting our firstreels out to have 20 Ks of of
visibility just from a page thatwas just starting off, just by
(56:18):
sharing and having the supportof everybody, and to have this
consistency now where most ofour reels have minimum 20, 20 K
views.
We like, we like, okay, there'sa consistency here.
There are people that areinterested and curious and it is
stable and we are smart enoughto change the content and to
bring new information at times,knowing that we don't have to
(56:40):
put too much and knowing thatthere are moments some might get
annoyed and move on and then wemight attract new ones.
I think it's.
It's the journey we believe inand, at the end of the day, now
one of the next steps now we'rebusy with the cast reveal.
Uh, starting from next week, Ithink, we have the poster that's
going to come out, and then thetrailer is going to come out,
(57:01):
and then we have this littledocumentary.
Then we we have like a stuntthat I believe in from since the
very beginning, where everybodythinks I'm crazy, but in my
head I'm like, yeah, but I thinkit's dope that we're going to
do the month prior to the event.
And it's just this thing of,okay, you have a few ideas and
then you just stay steady andyou believe in consistency and
(57:29):
whatever results you have, likeI'm happy.
Like I check every comment andI answer to every comment.
Just just be happy with the one.
Remember that one person isimportant, because if you just
think, oh, we need to have 10000, then you forget about those
little things.
So that's, that's where mybrain is.
So I don't believe I have theperfect plan and I also don't
believe in having this thing toapply like in a company, because
(57:53):
that's not.
Then you don't need me.
I'm good to bring in the team,I'm good to lead the team and to
stick to the plan.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
Thank you so much, yves, because I learned a lot
about the thought process behindit.
I totally understand that everyproject has probably their
organic way of creating a planfor these behind the scenes, but
I think you shared a lot ofgems about what went through
your mind and how you sort ofapproached it in various
creative ways, so I feel veryenriched after this interview.
(58:28):
So thank you so much.
If people want to know moreabout you as an artist, want to
know more about you as aproducer, where can they find
you?
On social media?
Or do you have a website?
And as well, is there perhaps alink we can follow to know more
about BXL, the movie?
Speaker 2 (58:44):
Of course, on social media for BXL the movie know
more about BXL the Movie.
Of course, on social media forBXL the Movie, it's BXL the
Movie.
You can find it on Instagram,bxl the Movie and on Facebook.
So that's for the movie.
For myself, it's just Yves Rutt.
On social media, you can findme on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (59:00):
Thank you so much, Yves.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
Thank you and all the best for BXL the movie.
Speaker 2 (59:06):
For you too, and I hope to also see more of your
work.
I've sent you a messagerecently, and I really mean what
I said, so I only wish the bestfor you.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.