April 19, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode, we explore a thought-provoking question: What would a movie look like if motherhood—or the lack of it—wasn't part of the script? Could it be a thriller, a rom-com, or even a western? These questions lead us into an engaging conversation with Mademoiselle Ginger, a French-American dancer, choreographer, and teacher based in London.
With her trademark orange hair and undeniable charisma, Ginger shares her transformative journey from professional dancer to creative powerhouse. At age 29, a mysterious inner ear problem led her into an eight-year battle with anxiety. She offers a visceral description of the physical manifestations of anxiety: "You're hot, you're bothered, you need to fiddle with your hair, you need to leave the room." Her words shatter many misconceptions about mental health.
Join us for this powerful conversation about creating a life on your own terms.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast.
Today is a special kind ofepisode.
Actually, I'm doing thisepisode as an actress for
character research, but also asa screenwriter, because I'm an
actress of 35 plus and, to behonest, most of the roles that
are out there now are alwayslinked to motherhood or the lack
(00:24):
of, and so in the world of filmand TV, there are not that many
roles where lead charactersfemale lead characters have a
narrative that is intricate,that is layered and that has
nothing to do with the fact thatthey are a mother or not.
Actually, there are studiesthat show that there aren't that
many roles lead roles for womenover 35.
(00:47):
Actually, there are less than10% of lead roles that go to
women over 45.
Or they are secondarycharacters, and so I want to
just celebrate the amazingnessof women's stories.
What if we were to make a filmabout these child-free women?
What would their stories belike if we were to tell them in
(01:10):
a movie?
Would it be a thriller, asci-fi, a rom-com, when it has
absolutely nothing to do withmotherhood?
So we're going to talk abouttheir ambitions, the ups and
downs of life, the challenges,the triumphs, the breakdowns,
everything.
But just to see if we were tomake a movie about this
particular woman, what would itlook like?
So please welcome for the firstepisode an amazing dancer,
(01:33):
choreographer and dance teacher,mademoiselle Ginger, born in
France, based in London.
Hello, hello, how are you doing?
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm super well.
So I'm so excited to talk toyou today.
So, first of all, before wedive into your life that could
be a thriller, a rom-com, a bigdrama, a comedy Can you just
(01:55):
tell us in a nutshell, what doyou do as an artist, as a
creative, and who are you as ahuman being?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
My name is Mademoiselle Ginger for full
stage name.
I'm a dance teacher, I'm aperformer, I'm a creative person
.
My favorite color is orange.
I'm 37.
I do lots of things, but that'slike the compact part of it.
I'm hosting now as well, whichI really enjoy.
So, yeah, and I love to battle.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I'm a strong freestyler, so that's the angles
that I come in at During thisepisode we're going to learn
more about what you do as anartist and that sort of things,
but let's just dive into yourlife story.
Okay, Every guest that comes onthe podcast, I always ask them
to fill in a littlequestionnaire and for me it's to
just dive deeper into theiruniverse.
So I suggest that we first gomaybe into a bit more of a
(02:48):
personal side of what you'vebeen going through in your life.
I know that anxiety has playeda role at some point in your
life.
Could you tell us what thisanxiety was and where it led us?
And then also you can you cantell this story as a very sad
thing or a comedic thing orwhatever you want tell us more
about anxiety and why that was aturning point in your life.
(03:10):
I think it's all the things.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's a comedy, it's a tragedy, it's all the things at
the same time.
I have lived a really fantasticlife, like I have nothing to
complain about.
So when I was I think I was 29I had an issue with my ear which
it took a long time for it tobe diagnosed.
I didn't know what was going on.
I was experiencing extremevertigo and dizziness, which led
(03:33):
me to having time off work.
It was the first time really inmy life that I couldn't dance,
so it was extremely frustratingfor me, because I've danced my
whole life.
This is what I do.
I go out, I teach, I go toparties.
It's as much my work as it iswho I am.
You know what I mean.
I'm so intertwined with what Ido.
So I had an issue with my innerear, took a long time for
(03:57):
doctors to figure out what'swrong with it.
Cut to figuring that out andthen trying to get out of, I
guess, the funk and the anxiousmentality that came with that,
which at the time I didn't knowit was anxiety, like I didn't
understand that.
I thought there was an issuewith my ear.
We figured that out, I'm goingto take some medicine and I'll
(04:19):
be fine.
That's what I thought.
So when the dizziness and thevertigo continued, when I felt
like I couldn't go to workanymore, even though they were
telling me I could go back, whenI would be in a room,
particularly with young children, and they would be running
around me and I would get reallyhot and bothered and
uncomfortable all things I hadnever experienced before.
(04:41):
I'm a confident woman, dare Isay.
Crowd control of like kids, soto speak, is like one of my
strong suits.
So at this point I was back inmy work, cleared from this ear
problem, and I was stillextremely uncomfortable.
And I want to talk about thephysical aspect, because when
(05:02):
you talk about anxiety, peoplethink it's quote, unquote, all
in in your head.
Listen, it really isn't.
You're hot, you're bothered,you're uncomfortable, you need
to sit down, you need to standup, you need to fiddle with your
hair, you need to take a beat,you need to leave the room, you
feel sick, you need the loo,like all of the things.
And I just didn't know thatthis was anxiety.
(05:23):
I hadn't experienced it beforeand I didn't know.
So I got really low in my mind.
I got very worried.
What is my life without dance?
Is my life as I know it over.
I mean the drama, cindy, thedrama, but this was real in my
head it was.
I remember sitting because I hadbought my first home, my flat
(05:44):
that I live in now shortlybefore this happened.
I remember sitting here on myown thinking like this is it
Like my whole life is nowchanging?
Anyway, we figured out it wasanxiety, and I went to see a
psychiatrist because I knew thatthis was something that I
needed bigger help for.
It wasn't just take a week offand go for a walk, like that was
(06:07):
just not going to cut it, andso I started seeing someone and,
long story short, I'm 37 now.
This started when I was 29.
I'm in a completely differentplace now.
Do I still have anxious days?
Absolutely.
Is my life, though, happy again?
Yes, that's the biggest thing.
Really.
(06:28):
It takes a long time.
I really think a lot of people,and me included, don't really
understand that anxiety is areally long process and you can
still have it, but be okay.
Still.
You can have good days and baddays, but when you're in the
thick of it and it's all baddays, it's really horrible.
So, yeah, so anxiety was areally big chunk of my early 30s
(06:52):
.
And then you have the peoplesaying to you is it because
you're turning 30?
And you're like who are youputting this energy on me, like
I keep?
I kept because I'm very openabout my story, so I kept saying
no, no, I had an issue with myear and it led to me posing all
these questions and doubtingmyself and that led to suffering
from anxiety.
(07:13):
Um, but people want to put adifferent narrative on you.
Is it because you're turning 30?
Is it because you feel likeyour life is?
And I was like no, my life isgreat, get out.
So that's, I don't know.
A long answer, answer, a shortanswer all of the things.
And actually it's funny like thelatest Pixar I don't know if
you've seen it Inside Out 2 withthe anxiety character.
(07:35):
Like when I first saw the firstDisney Inside Out, I felt
extremely overwhelmed by thatmovie because it was like
showing me what was going on inmy brain.
I wasn't ready for it.
And then, when the second onecame out and the character of
anxiety existed, I was likefeeling really happy to meet
anxiety as a character, becauseone of the things that I've
worked on in therapy isimagining don't laugh at me
(07:58):
imagining anxiety like a littledog, and sometimes the little
dog is just sitting by your feet.
And sometimes the little dog isjust sitting by your feet and
sometimes the little dog isjumping up and sometimes the
little dog is like on top ofyour face and so, like when I
was starting to get out of thethick of it, I really started to
go okay, today the dog was justjumping at my feet, today the
dog was on my head, today thedog is like laying on my body.
(08:20):
So this is how my relationshipwith anxiety started, continued,
continues, but is better.
Did I answer your question?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
That's a great start.
The first thing I want tobounce back from is the
different narratives that peoplestart to put on you, because
obviously we're going to talkabout being child free and how,
as women, you know, we are verymuch at the receiving end of
narratives that they want to puton us.
But I feel this oh, the 30slife crisis, all these life
(08:53):
crises, whether it's with ourbodies changing or our age or
whatever.
As women, I feel we're veryoften at the receiving end of
these narratives, like you said,and we don't relate to that.
And at the receiving end ofthese narratives, like you said,
and we don't relate to that.
I just want the listeners toreally understand how you
actually shine a very differentenergy from anxiety, generally
(09:14):
speaking, in your work as anartist.
I obviously know you as adancer and I've seen a lot of it
.
Can you just give us a littlebit of people that haven't seen
your work but are just listeningto this podcast?
What do they have to imagine?
Because you are a bit of acharacter.
You're into the world ofwhacking.
You can also say a word aboutwhacking, but who are you?
You know, when people meet youfor the first time.
You're absolutely not thestereotypical image we would
(09:36):
think about somebody thatsuffers from anxiety.
Tell us more about that side ofyou, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I'm also not the stereotypical dancer look.
So I think that's aninteresting thing, right.
So I'm like five foot one and ahalf, but I think a lot of
people think I'm much taller fortwo reasons.
One, because I'm loud.
You know that thing of likeshort people are compensating
and so they're loud.
Yes, that is probably part ofit.
(10:01):
I wear high heels a lot, so Ialso think that gives me like
height and more presence.
I have big orange hair.
I'm half American, half French,so sometimes I think, like when
I joke around, I think like theFrench side is the abrupt will
have an opinion on everything.
Don't impose this narrative onme's the French side, then the
(10:24):
American side is I love musicaltheater, I need to entertain
everybody all the time.
I love Disney, I'm obsessedwith Halloween.
So you put those two thingstogether and you get like this
orange ball of energy.
And I do think sometimes it isclear that I have anxiety.
Sometimes, like on days where Ifiddle with my hair a lot, it's
(10:46):
very obvious.
But I will just say I'm sorry,I'm anxious today and crack on
with my day.
And I think through my dance Idon't think my dance itself has
changed.
I think the way I approachevents and performance has
changed because I have to figurestuff out.
How I'm going to, you know,like how I'm going to go to this
event with 300 people now thatI have anxiety is different to
(11:10):
how I was going to go to thisevent with 300 people when I was
21 and I had no anxiety andalso, dare I say, no quote
unquote name in the scene.
So no one's expecting anything.
But now it's like, ooh and withall gingers here, pros and cons,
right, a part of me admits I ama show-off.
I've been a show-off my wholelife.
At school people were like, yes, I'm a show-off.
(11:31):
Now I'm like listen, kids, it'sbecause I'm a performer, you
know what I'm saying.
You flip the narrative.
So now you walk into a room andwhether people like you or not,
they'll be like and so I justhave to turn it on.
It's something I teach in myworkshops to turn on and turn
off like a light switch.
Yes, I'm anxious, but you turnon that performance, you do what
(11:52):
you need to do.
And then, when you get home andBette Midler, you know who is
one of my ultimate icons.
She talked about this in aninterview years ago you get home
and you're like a deflatedballoon.
But it's fine, it's how Ifunction.
I go out, I perform, I do mything, I give everyone a happy
time.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I come home, I sit alone in my flat with my fairy
lights and my blanket, and thenI start again and just to make
it clear so obviously thisexperience of anxiety started
about almost 10 years agobecause of your health problems
with your ear.
Yes, has that health problembeen resolved now?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
it is resolved.
I lived in fear of it comingback for a long time because it
had a.
It changed my life essentially.
It changed how I approach, likeeverything, because that's what
led me to having anxiety, butit was a problem with the inner
ear and my balance.
And they did this horribletherapy where they like throw
(12:49):
water in your ear, like it wasabsolutely terrifying and like
if anyone else had this earissue I would actually say try
and figure out another way totreat it than the way that they
treated it for me.
I just didn't have anyknowledge of it, and some people
I can't remember the name.
There's another issue with earvertigo that is similar to what
(13:09):
I had, but it's not what I had.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So everyone kept saying oh yeah, you'll be over
in three weeks and I was like noguys.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
This has already been two and a half months, but it's
resolved and it's fine.
And it was apparently caused bya virus that attacked the inner
ear, but that I have to be veryclear.
That is what catapulted theanxiety.
The anxiety was what changed mylife.
The ear issue was whatcatapulted me into anxious mode.
(13:39):
Does that make sense?
Yes, that's why I talk lessabout the ear thing than I talk
about the anxiety thing.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I'm just going to approach this as a screenwriter,
right, because as ascreenwriter, the more
specificities we have, the morethe story makes sense.
So we could tell the story if Iwas a screenwriter and I'm like
, hey, I'm going to write astory about a part of, you know,
mademoiselle Ginger's life.
Yeah, I would incorporate theear thing, even though the
(14:10):
feeling of the viewers theywould relate more to anxiety,
but it's the specificity of thischaracter going through a very
specific problem that makes thefilm relatable.
You know what I mean.
I'm going to go back to the earthing, but obviously you know,
like, add all the humanity that.
You know what I mean.
I'm gonna go back to the earthing, but obviously you know,
like, add all the humanity thatyou want it.
I hear that the treatment waskind of a very uncomfortable
(14:32):
sort of situation.
Yeah, if you were to and youcan really describe the doctor
as the most horrendous Disneycharacter or Voldemort or
whatever you want, yeah, yeah,if we had to write a script
around the treatment youreceived and, like you said, it
might not have been the rightchoices of the doctors or there
were more gentle ways to do it,would it be a thriller, would it
(14:53):
be a horror movie.
Maybe it could have gone wrongIf you had to make a movie, a
thriller, a horror or somethingelse about the treatment part of
it what would it be and why,and who would play what role?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
this is a very interesting question.
I'm so into this, but it's hardto answer.
Like I think it was a horrorgoing to six or seven different
appointments to figure out whatwas wrong with me.
Like I even went to do thething where they check if you've
got brain cancer, so you know.
And then you sit in PizzaExpress and you wait for the
evil doctor to tell you no,you're fine.
What a day that was.
(15:32):
And what's comedic this is atrue story is I was sitting in
Pizza Express waiting for theseresults, telling my parents how
I wanted my funeral to go.
I was like so if I die, I wantyou to play Proud Mary from Tina
Turner, the live version.
And we were just eating there,eating our pizza.
So it's hard for me to answeryour question because I think
(15:53):
the evil okay, if I were to makethis a animated type movie, the
evil villain would be the virusin my ear right.
That's the evil personattacking the inside, trying to
bring Manwaz al-Jindr down.
And then I think the doctorsthe series of doctors that I saw
(16:13):
would be like.
Some of them might be like theevil ear viruses, sidekicks and
some of them were not sidekicks,but you don't know which one's
which who's evil and who isn't.
So every appointment you go toat me like I don't know, is this
person trying to bring me downor is this person trying to help
me?
Because going in and you know adoctor throwing water in my ear
(16:38):
.
First of all I said I reallyneed to pee now.
And she started laughing and Iwas like no, I'm gonna wet
myself.
This is making me want to go tothe bathroom.
And she was like no one's eversaid that before.
I'm like no one's had the gutsto tell you because you need to
let me go pee, because this isnot going to be cute.
So every appointment was likethis new thing One doctor made
me walk up and down like on acube with my eyes closed cube
(17:05):
with my eyes closed and thenwhen I opened my eyes, I was in
a completely different angle ofthe office.
So I think, like the villain wasdefinitely the virus, but you
would go through this kind ofhorror.
No, okay, it's not a horror, Ithink it's like a thriller.
You know those 90 thrillerswith Denzel Washington, those
movies where, like you don'tknow, are you a villain?
Are you a villain?
Are you going to save villain?
Are you a villain?
Are you going to save me?
(17:25):
Are you a villain?
And you only find out at theend of the movie who was good
guy and who was bad guy?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
do you know about what you said to the doctors and
stuff?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I think it's like flipping hilarious she said to
me no one's ever said thatbefore.
I was like I because okay, sowhat's an interesting story too
is not the first psychiatrist Isaw, but like the third one I
saw down the line.
My first introduction was Ineed you to know that I am a
performer and that sometimes I'mgoing to look like I'm fine
(17:59):
because I'm switched on Right,but if I'm telling you I'm not
fine, please believe me, don'tgo with what you're seeing
physically.
And that's something I startedhaving to tell people because
people were like, notnecessarily taking me seriously,
like this woman who I said Ineed the bathroom.
Can I just go and come back andanswer your questions?
(18:20):
There was a lot of that.
You know where you're.
They're making you walk up anddown a corridor with your eyes
closed and you're like and Iwould say things like I feel
like I'm in the Titanic, likewhite walls, like where am I
going?
Can you explain what you'redoing?
I need to understand, just dothis.
And you're just like why Canyou explain what you're doing?
I need to understand, just dothis.
And you're just like why canyou explain it to me?
And that's why, to this day, ifyou ask me, what was the issue
(18:44):
called with your ear?
I actually can't rememberbecause I feel like there was no
like real explanation.
It was just like a series oftests which makes it a thriller.
Because you don't know what'sgoing on right and you're just
sitting on the edge of your seatand, like when I watch a
thriller, because you don't knowwhat's going on right, and
you're just sitting on the edgeof your seat and, like when I
watch a thriller, I mute itbecause the music just makes it
worse.
I feel like this was theopposite, like I needed way more
(19:06):
information to make me feelsecure in what I was going
through, but there was noinformation so what kind of
music would you know you doingall those tests?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
what would be like the?
The background music in thatmovie Just strings, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Listen, I don't score movies Please don't come for me
but like a lot of strings, alot of like bad violin playing
where you go like slightly off,that's what it felt like to me.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I would love to go back to this moment of comedy,
which is you sitting in PizzaExpress talking to your parents
about death.
I just want to share somethingas well, personally, because I
recently, last year, I lost mymom.
She was very ill and she chosefor euthanasia, which is legal
(20:00):
in Belgium since 2002.
Going through the experience ofaccompanying my mom, choosing
for her date an hour of her lastgoodbyes I cannot put the words
sad on it, because there was apower to it, a spiritual power,
power, an energetic power.
But if people only knew, on topof all the obviously very, you
(20:25):
know, intense conversations wehad, because obviously we knew
when we were going to say ourgoodbyes, there was also a
tremendous amount of humor, likethe amount of times we had
conversations about, yeah, thefact that she was going to die
and you know, for example, shesaid, oh, she will look after me
for certain things, and I'mlike, no, mom, you do not.
(20:46):
You go and find me the angelthat is the most expert in that
field, because I know that youradvice will not be the good one.
There was a huge amount of humorand, just like I don't want to
say, fun, but there was comedy.
You know that helped us also gothrough it.
Going back to this moment ofyou taking those tests about hey
, do I have maybe brain cancer,maybe I am dying, maybe I'm not
(21:07):
staying for long?
Tell me more about what wassaid in that pizza express with
your parents.
Did they take it seriously?
Were you both being sarcastic?
Was it the way the both of youmaking a movie out of it?
Were they breaking down and youwere laughing?
What really happened in thatmoment?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I mean, first of all, thank you for sharing your
experience and I'm sorry to hearthat your mother has passed,
but I'm interested in thisconversation too and I'm so glad
that you can share what youjust shared.
Look, I think the reality isthat I didn't think I was dying,
but a part of me was that Icould go back in that office in
25 minutes and they could tellme I have a brain Like it was
(21:46):
real, it wasn't like a fakeexperience, and both my parents
came with me to Pizza Express.
My dad took a day off workbecause he was still working at
the time, and the three us wentto pizza express and I think in
that moment I tell you what itis.
I I'm not very good at ignoringan issue, like even a small
thing, like I'm not very good ifyou have a something, if you
(22:09):
have a disagreement, I'm notvery good at just sweeping it
under the rug.
I actually think I shouldprobably try a bit more for
certain things, but I'm someonewho needs to talk about
everything.
I need to talk about all thethings.
So in that moment I felt likewe couldn't not talk about the
fact that in 20 minutes, theymight say you have a brain tumor
(22:29):
, like what, we're gonna cut ourpizza and talk about what shoes
like.
To me that's not possible and Iknow to a lot of people it is,
but to me it isn't.
And my family is a verysarcastic.
We're very sarcastic, okay, alot, not everyone, but a lot of
us.
We're very sarcastic and wealso do talk about death, not in
(22:51):
terms of like if you know howdeath is, but we do, as a family
, talk about.
This is I don't know if fashion.
It's a bit sad, but it'scomedic.
Like I'll say, if I die, I wantthis coat of mine to go to this
person, because this personwill actually wear it and you
(23:12):
will just leave it in a cupboardand you put on vintage and I'm
not having my ginger fashion sitin a closet right.
I took me time to find thisvintage, so this goes to you,
and so we do joke about certainthings in that sense, and I just
think it's how we operate.
I don't know if we're serious,I don't know if we're joking.
(23:33):
I think we're somewhere in themiddle somewhere, and I also
believe that humor and comedy isjust like really important, and
I don't mean laugh out loud.
Ah, we weren't doing that inPizza Express.
It wasn't that, but it was justlike me saying let me be very
clear If I die, it's a party.
(23:56):
Don't you dare have peoplewearing black people, better be
in sequins and full orange, getup.
You know what I'm saying, andbut this is where I'm a tragic
person.
I still want everyone to becrying.
Okay, for, like ever, you haveto cry, everyone has to cry, but
everyone has to look fabulous.
I don't know.
I just think like it was atough time and it took a while
(24:18):
to get answers, but all in all,I'm absolutely fine, and so the
story ends well, and I thinkthis conversation would be very
different if the story didn'tend well.
Of course, but making light ofthat in pizza express was the
only way I knew there was no wayI could talk about.
So tell me about your nextbusiness trip, why we're all
(24:39):
thinking about the same thing,you know let's move on to
another topic now.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Okay, if we had to look at your life, is there any
moment in your life that couldbe an absolute fabulous rom-com?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
yeah, but, no okay, no, I can spin that.
I can spin that.
It's a rom-com where I realizethat I really like being alone.
I love living alone.
I cannot stress that enough.
People think I say that tojustify or whatever.
No, no, no, no, listen, Iabsolutely love living alone.
(25:13):
It's the best thing ever.
And so maybe the rom-com isrealizing that right now I'm in
love with this life.
I'm in love with all of thesedecisions that I solely make
selfishly for my own happiness,like I don't really see the
problem, and I believe that Imight meet someone when I'm 45,
(25:37):
55, 65.
I genuinely think maybe that'sanother phase in the future, but
like I'm actively staying aloneon purpose.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So I think maybe the rom-com is that angle and I love
that you're talking about thatas well, because I feel like
that's another narrative that isbeing imposed right by society,
that we should be in a newrelationship, that's the only
way we can be, live a fulfilledlife, and blah, blah, blah.
And I'm not sure how menexperience that in this world if
they feel the same sort ofpressure from the outside world.
(26:09):
But there is a little bit ofthis narrative of can you be
really happy alone, kind ofthing.
So it's really important thatyou also mention that.
Also for me as a perspective asa writer writing new stories
about, about women in general,would there be a part of your
story that could be turned intoa western?
Oh geez, a western?
(26:31):
So more like you know, villainagainst villain or war sort of
you know conflict, or Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
So maybe it's like the dance industry and certain
people in the dance industrylike all of the time telling me
I'm not going to make it becauseof X, y, z, like my whole life,
and it's exhausting, so that Ithink has been an ongoing
conflict, if you will in myWestern that I think I'm out of
(27:08):
now, because I think now I thinkthere's two things.
I think, one, the industry haschanged one, and two, I think
now I'm so confident in who I amas a performer and an artist
that I don't even go near thespaces that don't get it.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Give us the top five reasons that were given to you
as as being the person that wasnot going to make it okay.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
The one of the ones that came up the most,
especially when I was between 14, I would say, in 22 ish, was
I'm not flexible enough and Ihave the wrong body type.
That was over a decade Well, adecade ish of hearing that
(27:54):
absolutely all the time and, tobe clear, I still don't really
know what the wrong body typemeans.
And, to be even clearer, Idon't know if what they mean is
I wasn't flexible, I wasn'tstrong, I didn't have the feet
you know those weird balletpeople with their feet Love you
ballet people, but it's a weirdsentence, is what I'm trying to
say or if they meant that I wastoo curvy because I was.
(28:18):
Now I'm a plus size performer.
Uk size 18 is like my size.
I wasn't a plus size performerwhen I was in my teens and 20s,
but I was definitely curvy.
So I had hips and I had thighsand my body wasn't what one
would call the stereotypicaldancer's body.
(28:38):
And so to this day, when peoplesaid to me I don't, you don't
have the right body type, Istill don't know really what
they meant.
But it was so annoying, cindy,I can't even deal.
So that was one, then arecurring one, when I was trying
to be in musical theater wasthat I couldn't sing, which,
okay, that's a good reason, butit's annoying Because, like at
(29:00):
the time I wanted to be when Iwas younger, I really wanted to
be in musical theater.
That really was like for thosepeople who know the industry I
wanted to be like Velma Kelly inChicago and now I want to be
Mama Morton in Chicago.
Somebody cast me Plug.
That was annoying.
And then another one is like alittle later is like people
(29:24):
comparing you to other artists.
Now that never.
That sat really wrong.
Someone saying, if this persondidn't make it, then you're
definitely not going to make it,and that was a comment that has
stuck with me.
That was horrible.
It was a horrible comment and Iwon't give names and I won't
(29:45):
give context, but it don't.
Please don't do that.
People listening, please don'tsay, if this person doesn't make
it, then you're not like.
We're all different.
We all want different things.
The person I was being comparedto wasn't even going for the
same work as me.
We don't even have the sametalents, so why I was being, we
were being, compared to eachother is out of.
(30:05):
I don't get it.
I'm confused.
What else?
There's so many, um, obviously,like there was a section where
I was overweight and people werelike you're fat, but now people
want people on tv that looklike people that are not on tv.
So now there's more workopportunity for people that just
(30:27):
look like me and otherphysiques in the dance industry,
like people are casting, whatpeople are casting, what they
want to call normal people,which bothers me, because we're
all normal people.
Doesn't matter if you're a size4 or a size 22, we're all
normal people.
You know what I'm saying.
(30:47):
But they're just broadeningbecause tv I think the fact that
people watch tv more means thatthe people creating television
want to put more people on TVthat look like the people that
watch the TV.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
I can totally relate to that because obviously I
started in the world of danceand when I moved to London so I
moved from Belgium to London Iwill always remember literally I
only had two people thatencouraged me.
It was a dance school where Iwas teaching and the directors
really encouraged me.
Everybody else of my mentorsdidn't have a positive word for
(31:26):
me.
Yeah, and I remember one ofthose mentors telling me are you
moving to London?
Good luck, because you've got adifficult body.
And that was because I wasconsidered too curvy.
You know, when I look atpictures now I'm like what the
madness was that?
But just the fact that he wassaying that as a mentor, I find
(31:47):
it very inappropriate.
Now I can look back at it andsee well, that mentor, or all
these mentors, most of themnever had the courage, the guts
to actually move country andfind more for their soul or
their creative expression.
Yeah, so obviously these kindof remarks came my way many
times as a dancer as well.
(32:08):
Yeah, so obviously these kindof remarks came my way many
times as a dancer as well.
So if you were to make, let'ssay that we you know we have
we're writing a movie about thisgirl that has like big dreams
in the world of dance and shehas all these characters that
are trying to stop her.
Would you turn it more intolike a sci-fi or would it be
more like a fantasy, like thesebad angels that were talking to
her, or real people where it'smore, you know, like these,
(32:31):
these very like cruelest kind ofcharacters?
Mary poppins?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
the original, like some of it is animated and some
of it is not animated.
I suppose the new mary poppinsis also like that, but I see it
like that.
I see there's some animated orI don't know what it's called
like special effects villains,and some are real, and it's back
to what we were saying earlier.
I think what's interesting issometimes the people that are
(32:59):
the meanest to you or say thingsthat you take and that really
hurt your feelings are peoplethat are close to you.
So so what do they look like?
It's not the typical Cruella.
Cruella comes into the movieand she's the villain.
She looks like a villain, shetalks like a villain.
She's the villain.
It's more of this likeundercover, trying to figure
people out.
(33:19):
Are you trying to help me?
Are you saying this to help mechange things, work on things,
or are you saying this to pullme down?
And I think throughout my movieI found it hard to figure
certain things, certaincharacters out.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Absolutely love what you're saying there, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
And also let's be, let's put numbers on this.
I knew I wanted to be a dancerby the time I was.
I always knew I wanted to be adancer.
There was never another job Iwanted to do.
But the minute I took it reallyseriously and was no going back
was around the age of 14.
14, it was like this is whatI'm doing.
(34:04):
And then 15, 16 was my phase ofsorry, this is a bad example,
but missing school to go todance.
Please don't do do what I'msaying, but I'm just telling you
my true story.
Catering my own schedule, Iwould take a ballet class here
on at this time and I would goto this other studio, take a
hip-hop class there and I wouldaudition for this and literally
16 years old, you know, in aqueue in Elephant and Castle
outside Huskies, auditioning fora hip-hop show, when I had been
(34:27):
taking hip hop classes for twominutes because I was extremely
determined.
I still am extremely passionateand when you are between the
age 14, you are a child and soit is harder to figure out which
characters are helping you,which characters think they're
(34:49):
helping you but they're not,because it doesn't work with
your personality and your way ofworking and which characters
are just evil villains who don'twant you to make it.
You know it's harder At 37, youmeet people and you almost
immediately go.
Okay, you're trying to help,but this isn't going to work for
me because you've learned, oryou'll go.
(35:10):
I don't like your energy.
You're a villain in my movie oryou'll go.
Okay, you're trying to behelpful, Thank you.
I think you just learn and mostof my life has been about
learning on the job.
Everything, whether it'spractical things like how does a
stage show actually work.
I never went to a school thatexplained this to me.
I got a job and I learned onthe job how to do the job.
(35:30):
Same with teaching.
I got a degree later, but atthe beginning it was like, hey,
can you cover?
Okay, and you're in a room andyou're just covering a class and
you don't really know how.
I did a lot of learning on thejob and I think I learned on the
job about people and thereforecharacters as well about your
(35:51):
future?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
yeah, and what are your, your, your biggest
aspirations, both on a personallevel and a professional level,
because you already achieved alot, like you know.
You worked with Disney, you'vebeen on tour, you've been
teaching like for 21 years.
You're blossoming in whatyou're doing.
What are your aspirations foryour future?
Professionally speaking, butalso personally, like what is
(36:13):
next?
What would be your next season,your next step, your next
leveling up the game in bothfields?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I think, like personally, I just want to be
happy.
So I'm constantly checkingmyself, like checking in with
myself Am I happy?
Am I enjoying what I'm doing?
So from a personal life, likehappiness, spending more time
with my family and being a bitsmarter with work choices, that
I'm not always working and thatI can have time with my family,
(36:42):
which means saying no to somestuff.
So, yeah, family, just morefamily time parents, my siblings
, my cousins, my grandparents.
I have family in the states,which is far.
So thank goodness for theinternet because you can send a
voice note, you can do afacetime, that's.
I mean, that wasn't like thatwhen we were kids.
We saw them once a year andthat was it.
(37:03):
So spending time with my family, spending time alone, just with
myself and my movies and myfairy lights, that's my happy
place for me.
And then, personally, look, afew years ago I went from being
mainly teaching ballet and now Imainly teach whacking and the
street styles and I work a lotmore with students towards
(37:27):
performance.
I used to work a lot towardsballet exams.
That's been a really big shift.
I found a lot of happiness inthis new shift.
So I want to continue that,continue the teaching continue,
the giving opportunity forperformance to young people, but
also people older than me, likewhoever wants the opportunity,
so that.
But also I want to battle again.
(37:48):
Look, I just shouldn't sayagain I never really stopped,
but I don't do it as much.
I want to continue battling.
I don't think I'm too old, Idon't think my time is over, I'm
absolutely not retired.
So just give me a minute andI'll be back.
I want to battle.
I would love to do okay, I'mgoing to say it on here because
I want it to happen I reallywant to do some voiceover work.
(38:09):
I did a little bit of voiceoverwork for the Jean-Paul Gaultier
fashion freak show, where I gotto be like the grandmother of
Jean-Paul Gaultier as thevoiceover with my French accent,
and I really enjoyed it okay.
So I would really love and thatwasn't planned, I just did it.
I would love to get into that.
I.
I would love to host moreevents.
(38:30):
I've been doing that a littlebit and I really enjoy that.
And then, like on a huge scale,like I would just love to book
one of those ridiculouscommercials that are like really
cheesy, where it's just me, andthey're like run worldwide and
I'm like, hey, I'd love to doone of those, because I've never
done like a commercial, so Iwould love to do that and have
(38:50):
that experience.
I'd love to perform live again.
But all of these things arethings that I believe that I
will either go get or come to meor it'll meet in the middle.
That's just where I amHappiness seeing what comes in
the inbox, going to get thingsthat don't come in the inbox,
checking in to see if I enjoysomething.
(39:12):
Sometimes you book a job thatyou really wanted and then
you're like, oh my God, why am Inot enjoying this?
And you're like pulling yourhair out, and sometimes it's as
simple as I'm not enjoying itbecause the lunch break is at
four and I'm starving.
Sometimes it's like simple andsometimes it's I'm not enjoying
it because my body's notcomfortable in this movement,
(39:33):
whatever it is.
So I'm really good at askingmyself the right questions, like
a casting will come in and I'llread the specs and my brain
will go yeah, I want to do this.
And then I'll literally pausefor five minutes and go wait,
wait, there's a 24 hour flight.
I really don't want to do thisbecause my anxiety will be like
yeah, so I don't have any realspecific things.
(39:57):
I have a lot of ideas of thingsand Disney taught me that.
Disney taught me that becausewhen I booked work for Disney
like I never thought that Iwould do that and also live I
worked on the live action LittleMermaid.
Live action movies didn't existwhen we were younger, so it's
not really something that liveaction versions of classics.
(40:18):
They didn't exist.
So that's not something thatwas like on my board as a goal
because I didn't even know itexisted.
So that job taught me that youneed to be open to stuff coming
in that you actually neverimagined doing.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
I love that.
That's so true, so true.
So you also told me a bitbefore we started recording that
you were comfortable talkingabout why you don't have
children and why you are childfree.
So the first question is why doyou not have children?
I don't really want any.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I mean, it's a simple answer.
Like I think I'm 37, I feellike if I really wanted kids,
I'd really feel that.
I really feel I have alwaysfollowed my dreams and followed
my passions.
So I feel like if I reallywanted kids, I would feel that
in in me and be like actively ona mission to make that happen,
like I've been.
(41:12):
Like I was on a mission to buythis flat.
I was like I want to buy a flat.
I was on a mission.
I want to be in Jean-PaulGaultier Fashion Friction.
I'm on a mission.
I want to have a strongposition in a school or a studio
, which I have now.
I was on a mission.
So I felt like if I reallywanted kids, I would be on a
mission to have them and so,therefore, the fact that I don't
(41:33):
have children is athought-through thing for me.
I just don't really want them.
Now I know what you're going tosay.
Might you change your mind?
Sure, maybe, maybe, but like Ireally want the respect to be
there of like right now, in thistime, it's absolutely not on my
cork board to have kids, soplease just allow that to be a
(41:58):
basic answer.
You know what I mean.
The comment I don't like is whenpeople say to me she can do it,
she doesn't have a family.
I have a family.
I have a mom.
I have a mom, I have a dad, Ihave a sister, I have a brother.
I have a grandma, I haveanother grandma, I have a
grandpa.
I've got an uncle, I've got twoaunts, I've got other uncles,
(42:19):
I've got cousins, I've gotsecond cousins, I've got friends
.
I consider family.
How dare you say I don't have afamily?
That comment I do not like.
Now they mean, yes, I know whatthey mean.
I live in the same world.
I know what they mean.
They mean I don't have apartner and I don't have a child
.
That's what they mean.
But because I don't have apartner and I don't have a child
(42:40):
doesn't mean that on Monday orSunday or Tuesday I don't want
the day off to spend with myfamily, even though my family is
not a partner and a child.
That comment has always reallygotten under my skin.
She can do it.
She doesn't have a family.
You can do that.
You don't have a family?
Can you do that?
(43:01):
Because you don't have a family?
You're available.
You don't have a family.
That that really you canprobably tell because I'm
getting all wound up thatcomment.
I really don't like it.
And now, finally, I'm at aplace where, when people say
that, I say no, but I'm, I havea family.
Please, I do, I really do havea family.
(43:22):
So I really don't like thatcomment.
I really don't like it.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
it really bothers me is there one more comment, uh,
that you've been told as a childfree woman that gets under your
skin, or that you weresurprised by, or that makes you
just laugh out loud there's beena few, but I'll be honest, I
don't want to give power to themin this moment.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I think also there's a lot of people who have
actually been really kind andreally nice about the fact that
I don't have kids.
There's a lot of people wholike a good I'll give you a good
comment that I really enjoyed.
Like I teach children every day.
Okay, and I have done so for 21years of my life.
I teach children every.
It's a weekly gig of mine, andso sometimes I joke and I say
(44:07):
I'll look after 16 kids for anhour and then another 16 kids
and then I'll give them back toyou and I'll go home.
That's my forte.
I said much earlier on thepodcast quote unquote that crowd
control, kid jester,entertainer, teacher that is
what I do.
And then I go home on my ownand people just are very kind
and say things like you're sogood with them, you're an
(44:29):
amazing teacher, you're a greatrole model to them.
Those comments are beautifulcomments that really are
important to me.
I really value when one of mystudents writes like I have a
note on my fridge.
It's a heart-shaped post-itwritten by a small child and it
says ginger, you are the bestteacher in the world and over
(44:51):
the 21 years of my career, Icannot tell you how many
drawings orange stick men withan orange hair thing on top,
drawings, bracelets kids havemade for me and in me, and that
is my relationship to childrenthat I find very fulfilling.
And there are a lot of peoplewho really praise me for that
relationship, who you know, whotell me that I do a really good
(45:13):
job, and those comments areextremely important to me and I
value those, and so I want togive an ending note on those
comments.
I remember when I was much, muchyounger and I was an assistant
I wasn't a teacher yet there wasa little girl who would cry a
lot.
She was three, she was reallytiny.
She would cry a lot, she wouldcry a lot and on the day of the
(45:33):
show her mum dropped her off andsomebody said I think she needs
her teacher and she went no, no, no, she needs the assistant,
she needs.
My name wasn't Ginger at thetime, but she needs Ginger and
me.
As a young I think I must havebeen 17, I was really young this
three-year-old wanted me.
She wanted to be comforted byme before going on stage.
(45:55):
This is happens all the time.
In my 21 year career, I have agood relationship with children
and the youth in general and Ido my best as a teacher to
remain their teacher and nottheir friend.
And I don't know, I try reallyhard and there's a lot of kids,
a lot of parents, a lot ofuncles, grandparents sometimes,
(46:17):
who come to the show and be likeyou're Ginger, I've heard about
you so many times on the phoneand that is just lovely and I
just really value that.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
So thank you so much for our chat today, Ginger.
I had a lot of visuals as awriter, so thank you for sharing
your story.
If people want to know moreabout you and your artistic path
and your classes and stuff,where can they find out more
Instagram?
Speaker 2 (46:41):
mademoiselle underscore ginger website
mademoisellegingercom.
Basically, just type inmademoiselle, ginger,
Mademoiselle M-A-D-E, becauseeveryone types in Mademoiselle
but it's Mademoiselle.
I'm being dramatic over here.
So, yeah, you just type my namein and you can find me.
I'm the orange one.
If there's any confusion,that's the one you want to hit.
Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast.
Today is a special kind ofepisode.
Actually, I'm doing thisepisode as an actress for
character research, but also asa screenwriter, because I'm an
actress of 35 plus and, to behonest, most of the roles that
are out there now are alwayslinked to motherhood or the lack
(00:24):
of, and so in the world of filmand TV, there are not that many
roles where lead charactersfemale lead characters have a
narrative that is intricate,that is layered and that has
nothing to do with the fact thatthey are a mother or not.
Actually, there are studiesthat show that there aren't that
many roles lead roles for womenover 35.
(00:47):
Actually, there are less than10% of lead roles that go to
women over 45.
Or they are secondarycharacters, and so I want to
just celebrate the amazingnessof women's stories.
What if we were to make a filmabout these child-free women?
What would their stories belike if we were to tell them in
(01:10):
a movie?
Would it be a thriller, asci-fi, a rom-com, when it has
absolutely nothing to do withmotherhood?
So we're going to talk abouttheir ambitions, the ups and
downs of life, the challenges,the triumphs, the breakdowns,
everything.
But just to see if we were tomake a movie about this
particular woman, what would itlook like?
So please welcome for the firstepisode an amazing dancer,
(01:33):
choreographer and dance teacher,mademoiselle Ginger, born in
France, based in London.
Hello, hello, how are you doing?
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm super well.
So I'm so excited to talk toyou today.
So, first of all, before wedive into your life that could
be a thriller, a rom-com, a bigdrama, a comedy Can you just
(01:55):
tell us in a nutshell, what doyou do as an artist, as a
creative, and who are you as ahuman being?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
My name is Mademoiselle Ginger for full
stage name.
I'm a dance teacher, I'm aperformer, I'm a creative person
.
My favorite color is orange.
I'm 37.
I do lots of things, but that'slike the compact part of it.
I'm hosting now as well, whichI really enjoy.
So, yeah, and I love to battle.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I'm a strong freestyler, so that's the angles
that I come in at During thisepisode we're going to learn
more about what you do as anartist and that sort of things,
but let's just dive into yourlife story.
Okay, Every guest that comes onthe podcast, I always ask them
to fill in a littlequestionnaire and for me it's to
just dive deeper into theiruniverse.
So I suggest that we first gomaybe into a bit more of a
(02:48):
personal side of what you'vebeen going through in your life.
I know that anxiety has playeda role at some point in your
life.
Could you tell us what thisanxiety was and where it led us?
And then also you can you cantell this story as a very sad
thing or a comedic thing orwhatever you want tell us more
about anxiety and why that was aturning point in your life.
(03:10):
I think it's all the things.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's a comedy, it's a tragedy, it's all the things at
the same time.
I have lived a really fantasticlife, like I have nothing to
complain about.
So when I was I think I was 29I had an issue with my ear which
it took a long time for it tobe diagnosed.
I didn't know what was going on.
I was experiencing extremevertigo and dizziness, which led
(03:33):
me to having time off work.
It was the first time really inmy life that I couldn't dance,
so it was extremely frustratingfor me, because I've danced my
whole life.
This is what I do.
I go out, I teach, I go toparties.
It's as much my work as it iswho I am.
You know what I mean.
I'm so intertwined with what Ido.
So I had an issue with my innerear, took a long time for
(03:57):
doctors to figure out what'swrong with it.
Cut to figuring that out andthen trying to get out of, I
guess, the funk and the anxiousmentality that came with that,
which at the time I didn't knowit was anxiety, like I didn't
understand that.
I thought there was an issuewith my ear.
We figured that out, I'm goingto take some medicine and I'll
(04:19):
be fine.
That's what I thought.
So when the dizziness and thevertigo continued, when I felt
like I couldn't go to workanymore, even though they were
telling me I could go back, whenI would be in a room,
particularly with young children, and they would be running
around me and I would get reallyhot and bothered and
uncomfortable all things I hadnever experienced before.
(04:41):
I'm a confident woman, dare Isay.
Crowd control of like kids, soto speak, is like one of my
strong suits.
So at this point I was back inmy work, cleared from this ear
problem, and I was stillextremely uncomfortable.
And I want to talk about thephysical aspect, because when
(05:02):
you talk about anxiety, peoplethink it's quote, unquote, all
in in your head.
Listen, it really isn't.
You're hot, you're bothered,you're uncomfortable, you need
to sit down, you need to standup, you need to fiddle with your
hair, you need to take a beat,you need to leave the room, you
feel sick, you need the loo,like all of the things.
And I just didn't know thatthis was anxiety.
(05:23):
I hadn't experienced it beforeand I didn't know.
So I got really low in my mind.
I got very worried.
What is my life without dance?
Is my life as I know it over.
I mean the drama, cindy, thedrama, but this was real in my
head it was.
I remember sitting because I hadbought my first home, my flat
(05:44):
that I live in now shortlybefore this happened.
I remember sitting here on myown thinking like this is it
Like my whole life is nowchanging?
Anyway, we figured out it wasanxiety, and I went to see a
psychiatrist because I knew thatthis was something that I
needed bigger help for.
It wasn't just take a week offand go for a walk, like that was
(06:07):
just not going to cut it, andso I started seeing someone and,
long story short, I'm 37 now.
This started when I was 29.
I'm in a completely differentplace now.
Do I still have anxious days?
Absolutely.
Is my life, though, happy again?
Yes, that's the biggest thing.
Really.
(06:28):
It takes a long time.
I really think a lot of people,and me included, don't really
understand that anxiety is areally long process and you can
still have it, but be okay.
Still.
You can have good days and baddays, but when you're in the
thick of it and it's all baddays, it's really horrible.
So, yeah, so anxiety was areally big chunk of my early 30s
(06:52):
.
And then you have the peoplesaying to you is it because
you're turning 30?
And you're like who are youputting this energy on me, like
I keep?
I kept because I'm very openabout my story, so I kept saying
no, no, I had an issue with myear and it led to me posing all
these questions and doubtingmyself and that led to suffering
from anxiety.
(07:13):
Um, but people want to put adifferent narrative on you.
Is it because you're turning 30?
Is it because you feel likeyour life is?
And I was like no, my life isgreat, get out.
So that's, I don't know.
A long answer, answer, a shortanswer all of the things.
And actually it's funny like thelatest Pixar I don't know if
you've seen it Inside Out 2 withthe anxiety character.
(07:35):
Like when I first saw the firstDisney Inside Out, I felt
extremely overwhelmed by thatmovie because it was like
showing me what was going on inmy brain.
I wasn't ready for it.
And then, when the second onecame out and the character of
anxiety existed, I was likefeeling really happy to meet
anxiety as a character, becauseone of the things that I've
worked on in therapy isimagining don't laugh at me
(07:58):
imagining anxiety like a littledog, and sometimes the little
dog is just sitting by your feet.
And sometimes the little dog isjust sitting by your feet and
sometimes the little dog isjumping up and sometimes the
little dog is like on top ofyour face and so, like when I
was starting to get out of thethick of it, I really started to
go okay, today the dog was justjumping at my feet, today the
dog was on my head, today thedog is like laying on my body.
(08:20):
So this is how my relationshipwith anxiety started, continued,
continues, but is better.
Did I answer your question?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
That's a great start.
The first thing I want tobounce back from is the
different narratives that peoplestart to put on you, because
obviously we're going to talkabout being child free and how,
as women, you know, we are verymuch at the receiving end of
narratives that they want to puton us.
But I feel this oh, the 30slife crisis, all these life
(08:53):
crises, whether it's with ourbodies changing or our age or
whatever.
As women, I feel we're veryoften at the receiving end of
these narratives, like you said,and we don't relate to that.
And at the receiving end ofthese narratives, like you said,
and we don't relate to that.
I just want the listeners toreally understand how you
actually shine a very differentenergy from anxiety, generally
(09:14):
speaking, in your work as anartist.
I obviously know you as adancer and I've seen a lot of it
.
Can you just give us a littlebit of people that haven't seen
your work but are just listeningto this podcast?
What do they have to imagine?
Because you are a bit of acharacter.
You're into the world ofwhacking.
You can also say a word aboutwhacking, but who are you?
You know, when people meet youfor the first time.
You're absolutely not thestereotypical image we would
(09:36):
think about somebody thatsuffers from anxiety.
Tell us more about that side ofyou, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I'm also not the stereotypical dancer look.
So I think that's aninteresting thing, right.
So I'm like five foot one and ahalf, but I think a lot of
people think I'm much taller fortwo reasons.
One, because I'm loud.
You know that thing of likeshort people are compensating
and so they're loud.
Yes, that is probably part ofit.
(10:01):
I wear high heels a lot, so Ialso think that gives me like
height and more presence.
I have big orange hair.
I'm half American, half French,so sometimes I think, like when
I joke around, I think like theFrench side is the abrupt will
have an opinion on everything.
Don't impose this narrative onme's the French side, then the
(10:24):
American side is I love musicaltheater, I need to entertain
everybody all the time.
I love Disney, I'm obsessedwith Halloween.
So you put those two thingstogether and you get like this
orange ball of energy.
And I do think sometimes it isclear that I have anxiety.
Sometimes, like on days where Ifiddle with my hair a lot, it's
(10:46):
very obvious.
But I will just say I'm sorry,I'm anxious today and crack on
with my day.
And I think through my dance Idon't think my dance itself has
changed.
I think the way I approachevents and performance has
changed because I have to figurestuff out.
How I'm going to, you know,like how I'm going to go to this
event with 300 people now thatI have anxiety is different to
(11:10):
how I was going to go to thisevent with 300 people when I was
21 and I had no anxiety andalso, dare I say, no quote
unquote name in the scene.
So no one's expecting anything.
But now it's like, ooh and withall gingers here, pros and cons,
right, a part of me admits I ama show-off.
I've been a show-off my wholelife.
At school people were like, yes, I'm a show-off.
(11:31):
Now I'm like listen, kids, it'sbecause I'm a performer, you
know what I'm saying.
You flip the narrative.
So now you walk into a room andwhether people like you or not,
they'll be like and so I justhave to turn it on.
It's something I teach in myworkshops to turn on and turn
off like a light switch.
Yes, I'm anxious, but you turnon that performance, you do what
(11:52):
you need to do.
And then, when you get home andBette Midler, you know who is
one of my ultimate icons.
She talked about this in aninterview years ago you get home
and you're like a deflatedballoon.
But it's fine, it's how Ifunction.
I go out, I perform, I do mything, I give everyone a happy
time.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I come home, I sit alone in my flat with my fairy
lights and my blanket, and thenI start again and just to make
it clear so obviously thisexperience of anxiety started
about almost 10 years agobecause of your health problems
with your ear.
Yes, has that health problembeen resolved now?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
it is resolved.
I lived in fear of it comingback for a long time because it
had a.
It changed my life essentially.
It changed how I approach, likeeverything, because that's what
led me to having anxiety, butit was a problem with the inner
ear and my balance.
And they did this horribletherapy where they like throw
(12:49):
water in your ear, like it wasabsolutely terrifying and like
if anyone else had this earissue I would actually say try
and figure out another way totreat it than the way that they
treated it for me.
I just didn't have anyknowledge of it, and some people
I can't remember the name.
There's another issue with earvertigo that is similar to what
(13:09):
I had, but it's not what I had.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So everyone kept saying oh yeah, you'll be over
in three weeks and I was like noguys.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
This has already been two and a half months, but it's
resolved and it's fine.
And it was apparently caused bya virus that attacked the inner
ear, but that I have to be veryclear.
That is what catapulted theanxiety.
The anxiety was what changed mylife.
The ear issue was whatcatapulted me into anxious mode.
(13:39):
Does that make sense?
Yes, that's why I talk lessabout the ear thing than I talk
about the anxiety thing.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I'm just going to approach this as a screenwriter,
right, because as ascreenwriter, the more
specificities we have, the morethe story makes sense.
So we could tell the story if Iwas a screenwriter and I'm like
, hey, I'm going to write astory about a part of, you know,
mademoiselle Ginger's life.
Yeah, I would incorporate theear thing, even though the
(14:10):
feeling of the viewers theywould relate more to anxiety,
but it's the specificity of thischaracter going through a very
specific problem that makes thefilm relatable.
You know what I mean.
I'm going to go back to the earthing, but obviously you know,
like, add all the humanity that.
You know what I mean.
I'm gonna go back to the earthing, but obviously you know,
like, add all the humanity thatyou want it.
I hear that the treatment waskind of a very uncomfortable
(14:32):
sort of situation.
Yeah, if you were to and youcan really describe the doctor
as the most horrendous Disneycharacter or Voldemort or
whatever you want, yeah, yeah,if we had to write a script
around the treatment youreceived and, like you said, it
might not have been the rightchoices of the doctors or there
were more gentle ways to do it,would it be a thriller, would it
(14:53):
be a horror movie.
Maybe it could have gone wrongIf you had to make a movie, a
thriller, a horror or somethingelse about the treatment part of
it what would it be and why,and who would play what role?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
this is a very interesting question.
I'm so into this, but it's hardto answer.
Like I think it was a horrorgoing to six or seven different
appointments to figure out whatwas wrong with me.
Like I even went to do thething where they check if you've
got brain cancer, so you know.
And then you sit in PizzaExpress and you wait for the
evil doctor to tell you no,you're fine.
What a day that was.
(15:32):
And what's comedic this is atrue story is I was sitting in
Pizza Express waiting for theseresults, telling my parents how
I wanted my funeral to go.
I was like so if I die, I wantyou to play Proud Mary from Tina
Turner, the live version.
And we were just eating there,eating our pizza.
So it's hard for me to answeryour question because I think
(15:53):
the evil okay, if I were to makethis a animated type movie, the
evil villain would be the virusin my ear right.
That's the evil personattacking the inside, trying to
bring Manwaz al-Jindr down.
And then I think the doctorsthe series of doctors that I saw
(16:13):
would be like.
Some of them might be like theevil ear viruses, sidekicks and
some of them were not sidekicks,but you don't know which one's
which who's evil and who isn't.
So every appointment you go toat me like I don't know, is this
person trying to bring me downor is this person trying to help
me?
Because going in and you know adoctor throwing water in my ear
(16:38):
.
First of all I said I reallyneed to pee now.
And she started laughing and Iwas like no, I'm gonna wet
myself.
This is making me want to go tothe bathroom.
And she was like no one's eversaid that before.
I'm like no one's had the gutsto tell you because you need to
let me go pee, because this isnot going to be cute.
So every appointment was likethis new thing One doctor made
me walk up and down like on acube with my eyes closed cube
(17:05):
with my eyes closed and thenwhen I opened my eyes, I was in
a completely different angle ofthe office.
So I think, like the villain wasdefinitely the virus, but you
would go through this kind ofhorror.
No, okay, it's not a horror, Ithink it's like a thriller.
You know those 90 thrillerswith Denzel Washington, those
movies where, like you don'tknow, are you a villain?
Are you a villain?
Are you going to save villain?
Are you a villain?
Are you going to save me?
(17:25):
Are you a villain?
And you only find out at theend of the movie who was good
guy and who was bad guy?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
do you know about what you said to the doctors and
stuff?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I think it's like flipping hilarious she said to
me no one's ever said thatbefore.
I was like I because okay, sowhat's an interesting story too
is not the first psychiatrist Isaw, but like the third one I
saw down the line.
My first introduction was Ineed you to know that I am a
performer and that sometimes I'mgoing to look like I'm fine
(17:59):
because I'm switched on Right,but if I'm telling you I'm not
fine, please believe me, don'tgo with what you're seeing
physically.
And that's something I startedhaving to tell people because
people were like, notnecessarily taking me seriously,
like this woman who I said Ineed the bathroom.
Can I just go and come back andanswer your questions?
(18:20):
There was a lot of that.
You know where you're.
They're making you walk up anddown a corridor with your eyes
closed and you're like and Iwould say things like I feel
like I'm in the Titanic, likewhite walls, like where am I
going?
Can you explain what you'redoing?
I need to understand, just dothis.
And you're just like why Canyou explain what you're doing?
I need to understand, just dothis.
And you're just like why canyou explain it to me?
And that's why, to this day, ifyou ask me, what was the issue
(18:44):
called with your ear?
I actually can't rememberbecause I feel like there was no
like real explanation.
It was just like a series oftests which makes it a thriller.
Because you don't know what'sgoing on right and you're just
sitting on the edge of your seatand, like when I watch a
thriller, because you don't knowwhat's going on right, and
you're just sitting on the edgeof your seat and, like when I
watch a thriller, I mute itbecause the music just makes it
worse.
I feel like this was theopposite, like I needed way more
(19:06):
information to make me feelsecure in what I was going
through, but there was noinformation so what kind of
music would you know you doingall those tests?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
what would be like the?
The background music in thatmovie Just strings, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Listen, I don't score movies Please don't come for me
but like a lot of strings, alot of like bad violin playing
where you go like slightly off,that's what it felt like to me.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I would love to go back to this moment of comedy,
which is you sitting in PizzaExpress talking to your parents
about death.
I just want to share somethingas well, personally, because I
recently, last year, I lost mymom.
She was very ill and she chosefor euthanasia, which is legal
(20:00):
in Belgium since 2002.
Going through the experience ofaccompanying my mom, choosing
for her date an hour of her lastgoodbyes I cannot put the words
sad on it, because there was apower to it, a spiritual power,
power, an energetic power.
But if people only knew, on topof all the obviously very, you
(20:25):
know, intense conversations wehad, because obviously we knew
when we were going to say ourgoodbyes, there was also a
tremendous amount of humor, likethe amount of times we had
conversations about, yeah, thefact that she was going to die
and you know, for example, shesaid, oh, she will look after me
for certain things, and I'mlike, no, mom, you do not.
(20:46):
You go and find me the angelthat is the most expert in that
field, because I know that youradvice will not be the good one.
There was a huge amount of humorand, just like I don't want to
say, fun, but there was comedy.
You know that helped us also gothrough it.
Going back to this moment ofyou taking those tests about hey
, do I have maybe brain cancer,maybe I am dying, maybe I'm not
(21:07):
staying for long?
Tell me more about what wassaid in that pizza express with
your parents.
Did they take it seriously?
Were you both being sarcastic?
Was it the way the both of youmaking a movie out of it?
Were they breaking down and youwere laughing?
What really happened in thatmoment?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I mean, first of all, thank you for sharing your
experience and I'm sorry to hearthat your mother has passed,
but I'm interested in thisconversation too and I'm so glad
that you can share what youjust shared.
Look, I think the reality isthat I didn't think I was dying,
but a part of me was that Icould go back in that office in
25 minutes and they could tellme I have a brain Like it was
(21:46):
real, it wasn't like a fakeexperience, and both my parents
came with me to Pizza Express.
My dad took a day off workbecause he was still working at
the time, and the three us wentto pizza express and I think in
that moment I tell you what itis.
I I'm not very good at ignoringan issue, like even a small
thing, like I'm not very good ifyou have a something, if you
(22:09):
have a disagreement, I'm notvery good at just sweeping it
under the rug.
I actually think I shouldprobably try a bit more for
certain things, but I'm someonewho needs to talk about
everything.
I need to talk about all thethings.
So in that moment I felt likewe couldn't not talk about the
fact that in 20 minutes, theymight say you have a brain tumor
(22:29):
, like what, we're gonna cut ourpizza and talk about what shoes
like.
To me that's not possible and Iknow to a lot of people it is,
but to me it isn't.
And my family is a verysarcastic.
We're very sarcastic, okay, alot, not everyone, but a lot of
us.
We're very sarcastic and wealso do talk about death, not in
(22:51):
terms of like if you know howdeath is, but we do, as a family
, talk about.
This is I don't know if fashion.
It's a bit sad, but it'scomedic.
Like I'll say, if I die, I wantthis coat of mine to go to this
person, because this personwill actually wear it and you
(23:12):
will just leave it in a cupboardand you put on vintage and I'm
not having my ginger fashion sitin a closet right.
I took me time to find thisvintage, so this goes to you,
and so we do joke about certainthings in that sense, and I just
think it's how we operate.
I don't know if we're serious,I don't know if we're joking.
(23:33):
I think we're somewhere in themiddle somewhere, and I also
believe that humor and comedy isjust like really important, and
I don't mean laugh out loud.
Ah, we weren't doing that inPizza Express.
It wasn't that, but it was justlike me saying let me be very
clear If I die, it's a party.
(23:56):
Don't you dare have peoplewearing black people, better be
in sequins and full orange, getup.
You know what I'm saying, andbut this is where I'm a tragic
person.
I still want everyone to becrying.
Okay, for, like ever, you haveto cry, everyone has to cry, but
everyone has to look fabulous.
I don't know.
I just think like it was atough time and it took a while
(24:18):
to get answers, but all in all,I'm absolutely fine, and so the
story ends well, and I thinkthis conversation would be very
different if the story didn'tend well.
Of course, but making light ofthat in pizza express was the
only way I knew there was no wayI could talk about.
So tell me about your nextbusiness trip, why we're all
(24:39):
thinking about the same thing,you know let's move on to
another topic now.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Okay, if we had to look at your life, is there any
moment in your life that couldbe an absolute fabulous rom-com?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
yeah, but, no okay, no, I can spin that.
I can spin that.
It's a rom-com where I realizethat I really like being alone.
I love living alone.
I cannot stress that enough.
People think I say that tojustify or whatever.
No, no, no, no, listen, Iabsolutely love living alone.
(25:13):
It's the best thing ever.
And so maybe the rom-com isrealizing that right now I'm in
love with this life.
I'm in love with all of thesedecisions that I solely make
selfishly for my own happiness,like I don't really see the
problem, and I believe that Imight meet someone when I'm 45,
(25:37):
55, 65.
I genuinely think maybe that'sanother phase in the future, but
like I'm actively staying aloneon purpose.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So I think maybe the rom-com is that angle and I love
that you're talking about thatas well, because I feel like
that's another narrative that isbeing imposed right by society,
that we should be in a newrelationship, that's the only
way we can be, live a fulfilledlife, and blah, blah, blah.
And I'm not sure how menexperience that in this world if
they feel the same sort ofpressure from the outside world.
(26:09):
But there is a little bit ofthis narrative of can you be
really happy alone, kind ofthing.
So it's really important thatyou also mention that.
Also for me as a perspective asa writer writing new stories
about, about women in general,would there be a part of your
story that could be turned intoa western?
Oh geez, a western?
(26:31):
So more like you know, villainagainst villain or war sort of
you know conflict, or Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
So maybe it's like the dance industry and certain
people in the dance industrylike all of the time telling me
I'm not going to make it becauseof X, y, z, like my whole life,
and it's exhausting, so that Ithink has been an ongoing
conflict, if you will in myWestern that I think I'm out of
(27:08):
now, because I think now I thinkthere's two things.
I think, one, the industry haschanged one, and two, I think
now I'm so confident in who I amas a performer and an artist
that I don't even go near thespaces that don't get it.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Give us the top five reasons that were given to you
as as being the person that wasnot going to make it okay.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
The one of the ones that came up the most,
especially when I was between 14, I would say, in 22 ish, was
I'm not flexible enough and Ihave the wrong body type.
That was over a decade Well, adecade ish of hearing that
(27:54):
absolutely all the time and, tobe clear, I still don't really
know what the wrong body typemeans.
And, to be even clearer, Idon't know if what they mean is
I wasn't flexible, I wasn'tstrong, I didn't have the feet
you know those weird balletpeople with their feet Love you
ballet people, but it's a weirdsentence, is what I'm trying to
say or if they meant that I wastoo curvy because I was.
(28:18):
Now I'm a plus size performer.
Uk size 18 is like my size.
I wasn't a plus size performerwhen I was in my teens and 20s,
but I was definitely curvy.
So I had hips and I had thighsand my body wasn't what one
would call the stereotypicaldancer's body.
(28:38):
And so to this day, when peoplesaid to me I don't, you don't
have the right body type, Istill don't know really what
they meant.
But it was so annoying, cindy,I can't even deal.
So that was one, then arecurring one, when I was trying
to be in musical theater wasthat I couldn't sing, which,
okay, that's a good reason, butit's annoying Because, like at
(29:00):
the time I wanted to be when Iwas younger, I really wanted to
be in musical theater.
That really was like for thosepeople who know the industry I
wanted to be like Velma Kelly inChicago and now I want to be
Mama Morton in Chicago.
Somebody cast me Plug.
That was annoying.
And then another one is like alittle later is like people
(29:24):
comparing you to other artists.
Now that never.
That sat really wrong.
Someone saying, if this persondidn't make it, then you're
definitely not going to make it,and that was a comment that has
stuck with me.
That was horrible.
It was a horrible comment and Iwon't give names and I won't
(29:45):
give context, but it don't.
Please don't do that.
People listening, please don'tsay, if this person doesn't make
it, then you're not like.
We're all different.
We all want different things.
The person I was being comparedto wasn't even going for the
same work as me.
We don't even have the sametalents, so why I was being, we
were being, compared to eachother is out of.
(30:05):
I don't get it.
I'm confused.
What else?
There's so many, um, obviously,like there was a section where
I was overweight and people werelike you're fat, but now people
want people on tv that looklike people that are not on tv.
So now there's more workopportunity for people that just
(30:27):
look like me and otherphysiques in the dance industry,
like people are casting, whatpeople are casting, what they
want to call normal people,which bothers me, because we're
all normal people.
Doesn't matter if you're a size4 or a size 22, we're all
normal people.
You know what I'm saying.
(30:47):
But they're just broadeningbecause tv I think the fact that
people watch tv more means thatthe people creating television
want to put more people on TVthat look like the people that
watch the TV.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
I can totally relate to that because obviously I
started in the world of danceand when I moved to London so I
moved from Belgium to London Iwill always remember literally I
only had two people thatencouraged me.
It was a dance school where Iwas teaching and the directors
really encouraged me.
Everybody else of my mentorsdidn't have a positive word for
(31:26):
me.
Yeah, and I remember one ofthose mentors telling me are you
moving to London?
Good luck, because you've got adifficult body.
And that was because I wasconsidered too curvy.
You know, when I look atpictures now I'm like what the
madness was that?
But just the fact that he wassaying that as a mentor, I find
(31:47):
it very inappropriate.
Now I can look back at it andsee well, that mentor, or all
these mentors, most of themnever had the courage, the guts
to actually move country andfind more for their soul or
their creative expression.
Yeah, so obviously these kindof remarks came my way many
times as a dancer as well.
(32:08):
Yeah, so obviously these kindof remarks came my way many
times as a dancer as well.
So if you were to make, let'ssay that we you know we have
we're writing a movie about thisgirl that has like big dreams
in the world of dance and shehas all these characters that
are trying to stop her.
Would you turn it more intolike a sci-fi or would it be
more like a fantasy, like thesebad angels that were talking to
her, or real people where it'smore, you know, like these,
(32:31):
these very like cruelest kind ofcharacters?
Mary poppins?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
the original, like some of it is animated and some
of it is not animated.
I suppose the new mary poppinsis also like that, but I see it
like that.
I see there's some animated orI don't know what it's called
like special effects villains,and some are real, and it's back
to what we were saying earlier.
I think what's interesting issometimes the people that are
(32:59):
the meanest to you or say thingsthat you take and that really
hurt your feelings are peoplethat are close to you.
So so what do they look like?
It's not the typical Cruella.
Cruella comes into the movieand she's the villain.
She looks like a villain, shetalks like a villain.
She's the villain.
It's more of this likeundercover, trying to figure
people out.
(33:19):
Are you trying to help me?
Are you saying this to help mechange things, work on things,
or are you saying this to pullme down?
And I think throughout my movieI found it hard to figure
certain things, certaincharacters out.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Absolutely love what you're saying there, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
And also let's be, let's put numbers on this.
I knew I wanted to be a dancerby the time I was.
I always knew I wanted to be adancer.
There was never another job Iwanted to do.
But the minute I took it reallyseriously and was no going back
was around the age of 14.
14, it was like this is whatI'm doing.
(34:04):
And then 15, 16 was my phase ofsorry, this is a bad example,
but missing school to go todance.
Please don't do do what I'msaying, but I'm just telling you
my true story.
Catering my own schedule, Iwould take a ballet class here
on at this time and I would goto this other studio, take a
hip-hop class there and I wouldaudition for this and literally
16 years old, you know, in aqueue in Elephant and Castle
outside Huskies, auditioning fora hip-hop show, when I had been
(34:27):
taking hip hop classes for twominutes because I was extremely
determined.
I still am extremely passionateand when you are between the
age 14, you are a child and soit is harder to figure out which
characters are helping you,which characters think they're
(34:49):
helping you but they're not,because it doesn't work with
your personality and your way ofworking and which characters
are just evil villains who don'twant you to make it.
You know it's harder At 37, youmeet people and you almost
immediately go.
Okay, you're trying to help,but this isn't going to work for
me because you've learned, oryou'll go.
(35:10):
I don't like your energy.
You're a villain in my movie oryou'll go.
Okay, you're trying to behelpful, Thank you.
I think you just learn and mostof my life has been about
learning on the job.
Everything, whether it'spractical things like how does a
stage show actually work.
I never went to a school thatexplained this to me.
I got a job and I learned onthe job how to do the job.
(35:30):
Same with teaching.
I got a degree later, but atthe beginning it was like, hey,
can you cover?
Okay, and you're in a room andyou're just covering a class and
you don't really know how.
I did a lot of learning on thejob and I think I learned on the
job about people and thereforecharacters as well about your
(35:51):
future?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
yeah, and what are your, your, your biggest
aspirations, both on a personallevel and a professional level,
because you already achieved alot, like you know.
You worked with Disney, you'vebeen on tour, you've been
teaching like for 21 years.
You're blossoming in whatyou're doing.
What are your aspirations foryour future?
Professionally speaking, butalso personally, like what is
(36:13):
next?
What would be your next season,your next step, your next
leveling up the game in bothfields?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I think, like personally, I just want to be
happy.
So I'm constantly checkingmyself, like checking in with
myself Am I happy?
Am I enjoying what I'm doing?
So from a personal life, likehappiness, spending more time
with my family and being a bitsmarter with work choices, that
I'm not always working and thatI can have time with my family,
(36:42):
which means saying no to somestuff.
So, yeah, family, just morefamily time parents, my siblings
, my cousins, my grandparents.
I have family in the states,which is far.
So thank goodness for theinternet because you can send a
voice note, you can do afacetime, that's.
I mean, that wasn't like thatwhen we were kids.
We saw them once a year andthat was it.
(37:03):
So spending time with my family, spending time alone, just with
myself and my movies and myfairy lights, that's my happy
place for me.
And then, personally, look, afew years ago I went from being
mainly teaching ballet and now Imainly teach whacking and the
street styles and I work a lotmore with students towards
(37:27):
performance.
I used to work a lot towardsballet exams.
That's been a really big shift.
I found a lot of happiness inthis new shift.
So I want to continue that,continue the teaching continue,
the giving opportunity forperformance to young people, but
also people older than me, likewhoever wants the opportunity,
so that.
But also I want to battle again.
(37:48):
Look, I just shouldn't sayagain I never really stopped,
but I don't do it as much.
I want to continue battling.
I don't think I'm too old, Idon't think my time is over, I'm
absolutely not retired.
So just give me a minute andI'll be back.
I want to battle.
I would love to do okay, I'mgoing to say it on here because
I want it to happen I reallywant to do some voiceover work.
(38:09):
I did a little bit of voiceoverwork for the Jean-Paul Gaultier
fashion freak show, where I gotto be like the grandmother of
Jean-Paul Gaultier as thevoiceover with my French accent,
and I really enjoyed it okay.
So I would really love and thatwasn't planned, I just did it.
I would love to get into that.
I.
I would love to host moreevents.
(38:30):
I've been doing that a littlebit and I really enjoy that.
And then, like on a huge scale,like I would just love to book
one of those ridiculouscommercials that are like really
cheesy, where it's just me, andthey're like run worldwide and
I'm like, hey, I'd love to doone of those, because I've never
done like a commercial, so Iwould love to do that and have
(38:50):
that experience.
I'd love to perform live again.
But all of these things arethings that I believe that I
will either go get or come to meor it'll meet in the middle.
That's just where I amHappiness seeing what comes in
the inbox, going to get thingsthat don't come in the inbox,
checking in to see if I enjoysomething.
(39:12):
Sometimes you book a job thatyou really wanted and then
you're like, oh my God, why am Inot enjoying this?
And you're like pulling yourhair out, and sometimes it's as
simple as I'm not enjoying itbecause the lunch break is at
four and I'm starving.
Sometimes it's like simple andsometimes it's I'm not enjoying
it because my body's notcomfortable in this movement,
(39:33):
whatever it is.
So I'm really good at askingmyself the right questions, like
a casting will come in and I'llread the specs and my brain
will go yeah, I want to do this.
And then I'll literally pausefor five minutes and go wait,
wait, there's a 24 hour flight.
I really don't want to do thisbecause my anxiety will be like
yeah, so I don't have any realspecific things.
(39:57):
I have a lot of ideas of thingsand Disney taught me that.
Disney taught me that becausewhen I booked work for Disney
like I never thought that Iwould do that and also live I
worked on the live action LittleMermaid.
Live action movies didn't existwhen we were younger, so it's
not really something that liveaction versions of classics.
(40:18):
They didn't exist.
So that's not something thatwas like on my board as a goal
because I didn't even know itexisted.
So that job taught me that youneed to be open to stuff coming
in that you actually neverimagined doing.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
I love that.
That's so true, so true.
So you also told me a bitbefore we started recording that
you were comfortable talkingabout why you don't have
children and why you are childfree.
So the first question is why doyou not have children?
I don't really want any.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I mean, it's a simple answer.
Like I think I'm 37, I feellike if I really wanted kids,
I'd really feel that.
I really feel I have alwaysfollowed my dreams and followed
my passions.
So I feel like if I reallywanted kids, I would feel that
in in me and be like actively ona mission to make that happen,
like I've been.
(41:12):
Like I was on a mission to buythis flat.
I was like I want to buy a flat.
I was on a mission.
I want to be in Jean-PaulGaultier Fashion Friction.
I'm on a mission.
I want to have a strongposition in a school or a studio
, which I have now.
I was on a mission.
So I felt like if I reallywanted kids, I would be on a
mission to have them and so,therefore, the fact that I don't
(41:33):
have children is athought-through thing for me.
I just don't really want them.
Now I know what you're going tosay.
Might you change your mind?
Sure, maybe, maybe, but like Ireally want the respect to be
there of like right now, in thistime, it's absolutely not on my
cork board to have kids, soplease just allow that to be a
(41:58):
basic answer.
You know what I mean.
The comment I don't like is whenpeople say to me she can do it,
she doesn't have a family.
I have a family.
I have a mom.
I have a mom, I have a dad, Ihave a sister, I have a brother.
I have a grandma, I haveanother grandma, I have a
grandpa.
I've got an uncle, I've got twoaunts, I've got other uncles,
(42:19):
I've got cousins, I've gotsecond cousins, I've got friends
.
I consider family.
How dare you say I don't have afamily?
That comment I do not like.
Now they mean, yes, I know whatthey mean.
I live in the same world.
I know what they mean.
They mean I don't have apartner and I don't have a child
.
That's what they mean.
But because I don't have apartner and I don't have a child
(42:40):
doesn't mean that on Monday orSunday or Tuesday I don't want
the day off to spend with myfamily, even though my family is
not a partner and a child.
That comment has always reallygotten under my skin.
She can do it.
She doesn't have a family.
You can do that.
You don't have a family?
Can you do that?
(43:01):
Because you don't have a family?
You're available.
You don't have a family.
That that really you canprobably tell because I'm
getting all wound up thatcomment.
I really don't like it.
And now, finally, I'm at aplace where, when people say
that, I say no, but I'm, I havea family.
Please, I do, I really do havea family.
(43:22):
So I really don't like thatcomment.
I really don't like it.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
it really bothers me is there one more comment, uh,
that you've been told as a childfree woman that gets under your
skin, or that you weresurprised by, or that makes you
just laugh out loud there's beena few, but I'll be honest, I
don't want to give power to themin this moment.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I think also there's a lot of people who have
actually been really kind andreally nice about the fact that
I don't have kids.
There's a lot of people wholike a good I'll give you a good
comment that I really enjoyed.
Like I teach children every day.
Okay, and I have done so for 21years of my life.
I teach children every.
It's a weekly gig of mine, andso sometimes I joke and I say
(44:07):
I'll look after 16 kids for anhour and then another 16 kids
and then I'll give them back toyou and I'll go home.
That's my forte.
I said much earlier on thepodcast quote unquote that crowd
control, kid jester,entertainer, teacher that is
what I do.
And then I go home on my ownand people just are very kind
and say things like you're sogood with them, you're an
(44:29):
amazing teacher, you're a greatrole model to them.
Those comments are beautifulcomments that really are
important to me.
I really value when one of mystudents writes like I have a
note on my fridge.
It's a heart-shaped post-itwritten by a small child and it
says ginger, you are the bestteacher in the world and over
(44:51):
the 21 years of my career, Icannot tell you how many
drawings orange stick men withan orange hair thing on top,
drawings, bracelets kids havemade for me and in me, and that
is my relationship to childrenthat I find very fulfilling.
And there are a lot of peoplewho really praise me for that
relationship, who you know, whotell me that I do a really good
(45:13):
job, and those comments areextremely important to me and I
value those, and so I want togive an ending note on those
comments.
I remember when I was much, muchyounger and I was an assistant
I wasn't a teacher yet there wasa little girl who would cry a
lot.
She was three, she was reallytiny.
She would cry a lot, she wouldcry a lot and on the day of the
(45:33):
show her mum dropped her off andsomebody said I think she needs
her teacher and she went no, no, no, she needs the assistant,
she needs.
My name wasn't Ginger at thetime, but she needs Ginger and
me.
As a young I think I must havebeen 17, I was really young this
three-year-old wanted me.
She wanted to be comforted byme before going on stage.
(45:55):
This is happens all the time.
In my 21 year career, I have agood relationship with children
and the youth in general and Ido my best as a teacher to
remain their teacher and nottheir friend.
And I don't know, I try reallyhard and there's a lot of kids,
a lot of parents, a lot ofuncles, grandparents sometimes,
(46:17):
who come to the show and be likeyou're Ginger, I've heard about
you so many times on the phoneand that is just lovely and I
just really value that.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
So thank you so much for our chat today, Ginger.
I had a lot of visuals as awriter, so thank you for sharing
your story.
If people want to know moreabout you and your artistic path
and your classes and stuff,where can they find out more
Instagram?
Speaker 2 (46:41):
mademoiselle underscore ginger website
mademoisellegingercom.
Basically, just type inmademoiselle, ginger,
Mademoiselle M-A-D-E, becauseeveryone types in Mademoiselle
but it's Mademoiselle.
I'm being dramatic over here.
So, yeah, you just type my namein and you can find me.
I'm the orange one.
If there's any confusion,that's the one you want to hit.
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