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May 14, 2025 47 mins

Actors, stunts, dancers... we are all "peak performers". Briana Bowley, a specialist in nervous system regulation for high performers, reveals how our fight-flight-freeze responses can either sabotage our efforts or become powerful allies in our creative journey.

When you'll understand why you freeze during that Brazilian jiu-jitsu sparring sessions or why you're drawn to action movies despite hating real-world violence, you might gain access to profound new insights about your own patterns and potential. 

We explore the seemingly contradictory attraction many of us have to martial arts and action movies while being fundamentally non-violent people. Is it because survival is portrayed in such vivid ways? Is it about reclaiming power? Seeking the spark of uncertainty in monotonous lives? Or perhaps it's about creating those powerful "blended states" where challenge and safety coexist, allowing us to test our edges in controlled environments.

In this episode we learn that the body cannot distinguish between surviving through an experience or thriving through it and how the "minimal effective dose" concept helps performers achieve results without burning out.

One of Cindy’s key takeaways is how opportunities to "brag" about successes can reprogram nervous system patterns.

Ready to transform your relationship with performance, success, and the inevitable challenges of a creative career? Discover how understanding your nervous system patterns can help you approach your craft with greater self-awareness, efficiency, and compassion. 

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IG Guest - Briana Bowley

@brianabowley

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Loud Whisperer Takeover podcast.
Today we are going to talkabout combat sports, martial
arts, why we love action moviesyet we hate violence, and then
one very, very important topicit's all about high performers,
peak performers and their riskof burnout.
When we are artists, we arereally there, putting all of

(00:23):
ourselves into our crafts 365days a year.
When, on top of that, we workwith our bodies, when we are a
dancer, when we are a stuntperformer, we're also in this
high peak performance mindset atall times.
How can we go through life witha bit of a more smoothness and

(00:45):
peace, both for our bodies andfor our mental health?
Today I have a very specialguest, brianna Bowley, straight
out of Australia.
Hi, brianna, how are you doing?
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm super excited to be talkingto you today.
So maybe just because you'redoing a lot of different things
related to high performers, canyou tell us in a nutshell what

(01:09):
you do and what your methodologyis about?

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I work in nervous systemregulation work for high
performers, and this isessentially looking at the fight
, flight and freeze response andhow that affects and impacts
our ability to show up at ourbest.
If we're living in thisperpetual state of stress which
is often the case for mostpeople because we live in a very
kind of a high stimulusenvironment then it diminishes

(01:37):
our ability to recover, itdiminishes our ability to think
clearly, it diminishes ourability to be at our best across
multiple different facets.
So my work is really aboutencouraging people to set
themselves up to operate from aplace of safety, operate from a
place of relaxation and, withthat, perform better across the

(01:57):
board.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
I'm just thinking because obviously I can see
myself when I'm a leader of aproject and I'm facing conflict
and I can analyze it on apsychological level.
I can see myself when I'm aleader of a project and I'm
facing conflict and I cananalyze it on a psychological
level.
I can see, okay, here I've beenfighting, freezing, fighting,
but I'd like to go to me assomebody that is interested in
combat sports.
So I did a lot of Krav Maga.

(02:21):
At some point I was training 17hours a week in Krav Maga.
My nervous system was triggeredright, left and center, yet I
kept going.
It was not always a nice kindof feeling, but for some reason
I just kept going because I wasso dedicated to learn more about
this methodology, about thismethodology.

(02:46):
When people get involved incombat sports, when they get
involved in things like KravMaga, self-defense, martial arts
, will that also come up, orwill they always try and go to
the fight response?
For example, I'm trainingboxing.
If I freeze, I will lose myboxing match right or I will not
be able to spar, or whatever.
What happens in those moments.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah.
So, in a nutshell, our body orour nervous system learns what
responses we instinctually leantowards, based on past
experiences.
So I'll use myself as anexample.
I have a habit.
I train Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
I have a habit when I'm stuck inbottom side control underneath
the heavy opponent, I cansometimes find myself freezing.

(03:30):
And I've been able to track itback too, because I grew up with
an older brother and I grew upwith a lot of, you know, male
cousins and I got very used tobasically being lovingly beat up
as a kid.
And I learned really early onthat if I tried to fight back
these are boys who were olderthan me, heavier than me,
physically stronger than me If Ifought back, it was actually

(03:54):
more fun for them and they wouldspend longer beating me up,
whereas if I froze then theywould leave me alone and they'd
get bored of it.
And so I now know that sometimesin these moments in jiu-jitsu,
when I'm stuck in bottom sidecontrol and there's this sense
of hopelessness, there's thissense of I can't get out of this
, that freeze response is alertresponse, because that was how I

(04:16):
survived as a kid.
Now I can train myself out ofthis and I am consistently
working at shifting the response.
But it's in a nutshell ournervous system can't tell the
difference between whether wesimply survive through an
experience or whether we thrivethrough an experience.
Of course, in my situation injujitsu, for me to be at my best

(04:39):
on the mats, regardless of whatsituation is happening, it
would be ideal, it would be mypreference if I didn't freeze.
But the reality is that mysystem can't tell the difference
between oh, I lived another day, or I lived another day and won
the match and did iteffortlessly, and so on and so
forth, and so the freezeresponse is there, because

(05:00):
that's how I survived as a kid.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
That's so interesting that the nervous system doesn't
make a difference between Isurvived another day or I
survived another day and I won,and I was productive and I was
yeah, all of these things thatwe value in society.
What also is being reflectedback to me is, when I'm sparring
, especially in Krav Maga, isthat I go into freeze mode.

(05:25):
And what you now said now is Ihave actually a background like
I grew up in a very violentfamily environment and actually
what happened was, well, youdon't fight back, but if you
just roll up in a little balland wait for it to be over, it
will be over at some point.
So it's and I realize, yeah, inKrav Maga it's often that sort

(05:48):
of that comes back, but you saidwe can train ourselves out of
it.
So how do we train ourselvesout of it?
Is it just that realization inthe moment of no, now keep going
.
You're in freeze mode, now goin fight mode, or how?
Or is it meditation outside ofthe training session?
Or how would you, yeah, coachyour clients and getting out of

(06:08):
these patterns?

Speaker 2 (06:09):
yeah for sure, part of it can be resources.
So as an example, and againI'll use my situation as an
example as a white belt who'sbrand new to the mats has no
idea how to get out of sidecontrol, then of course, when
I'm stuck under side control I'mgonna freeze and I'm not going
to know what to do, whereas now,being further along in my
journey and being closer toPurple Bell, now I do have these

(06:32):
resources.
So I noticed that it happens alot less because I'm now well
resourced with other options andother ways of dealing when that
pressure or that stimulus thatreminds me of childhood
experiences kicks in.
But the other piece is that, ina nutshell, to retrain and
repattern these responses, weactually need to have the

(06:55):
experience in safe spaces.
So, like a common analogy thatI use is that if someone has
like a phobia of spiders, thenif they're put in situations
where they're around spiders andthey're not bitten or they're
not, they're not stressfulexperiences with spiders.
Maybe their experiences withspiders where you know that they

(07:15):
see them in a different lightor they see they're more of I
guess, for lack of a better wayof putting it the cuddliness of
spiders, or are able to see themin ways that they resonate with
.
It takes away some of thatemotional charge.
It takes away some of thatstress.
So one of the ways that Ipersonally use when it comes to
my situation in jujitsu is Iactually share what's going on

(07:35):
with my training partners.
Then I say to them hey, I havethis response that comes up for
me.
It's a freeze response.
Here is why it occurs.
I'm trying to train myself intorecognizing that sensation of
being trapped under someoneheavy as being a situation where
, although it's uncomfortable,it's not unsafe.
And I encourage my trainingpartners, in the right

(07:57):
circumstances, to actually putme in that position and they
know what's going on for me,they know what to look out for
if I start to freeze up.
I know that I can tap out ofthose situations when I need to.
But when I am stuck in thosecircumstances and I can feel
myself starting to go into myfreeze response and I'm really
clear on what these symptoms arefor me when I can feel myself

(08:21):
starting to move into a freezeresponse, I consciously talk
myself through it.
So I will, even if it meansthat I'm not actively trying to
escape, just doing my best toremain in my body so it could
look like you're having aninternal kind of dialogue with
myself.
Sometimes it's a it's actuallyan external dialogue with my
training partner, but doingwhatever I need in that moment

(08:44):
to basically stay present, tostay in my body, to not go into
panic, to not go into shutdownand start to retrain my system.
That experience isn't somethingto shut down when I'm in.
It's not an experience that Ineed to escape.
It's an experience that, overtime, I can start to see as
being a safe experience.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
There's something very important that you said
like you would retrain yourselfwhen you're in the safe space.
For example, you're training,you're sparring with a training
partner, and then you wouldshare with your training partner
what's going on, so that theycan also be of good support.
And then we have these fight,flight and freeze responses in
spaces that are not safe.

(09:25):
For example, we have to solve aconflict in real life with
somebody we work with, we haveto renegotiate our salaries or
we have to renegotiate terms andconditions of our contract.
As a performer, we are under ahuge amount of stress because,
as performers, we don't alwayshave work, and so we're in the
situation where we are like, oh,can I even fight back or not,

(09:46):
but we might not feel in a safespace, we might not feel like we
can share, like hey, I'mfreezing here.
So how would you then prepareperformers to go against their
patterns or have a betterrelationship of conflict, but
when they're not in a safe space?

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, great question.
So I would say the answer tothat is it's all of the work
leading up to those moments.
I always encourage my clientsto get really clear on what has
them at their best and what hasthem at their worst, and a lot
of this is like backgroundhomework.
So it could be something assimple.
As me, for example, I know thatif I get less than eight hours

(10:27):
of sleep, that I'm not at mybest.
If I get less than eight hoursof sleep several days in a row,
like my ability to be resilientthrough stress is severely just
diminished.
And so it's tracking these kindof simple things over time so
that we can set ourselves up andprovide ourselves with what we
need, so that in these momentsof stress, we can essentially

(10:52):
hold out before we're throwninto chaos, before we're thrown
into dysregulation.
So there's something called awindow of tolerance, and a
window of tolerance is basicallyhow much external stimulus or
how much stress we can take onbefore we're thrown into
dysregulation.
And so I kind of use the analogyof you know, if you think of
like a bucket of water, andevery time your needs aren't met

(11:15):
, you're adding more water tothat bucket, and then finally
you have this experience, whichis stressful.
You don't know how to handle it.
You know you're having to faceconflict or whatever the thing
may be.
You've only got maybe this muchspace left in the bucket before
you overflow, and then you knowwe have emotional chaos, but
every time you're having yourneeds met, it's like emptying

(11:39):
water out.
So you now have more space inthe bucket to take on whatever
may come your way during the daywhere you still have more space
in the bucket to take onwhatever may come your way,
during the day where you stillhave more capacity before things
start to overflow.
So, to simplify that, it wouldbe a matter of, in every
situation outside of thatstressor, learning how to
regulate, learning what you needin order to be at your best and

(12:02):
, as best you can, avoiding orbeing discerning about the
situations that don't have youat your best, so that you've got
a greater capacity.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
A question around our love for martial arts and
combat sports.
I'm just going to go from thegeneral idea that most people do
not enjoy violence or notviolent.
Of course there are exceptionsand people that absolutely love
hitting others and would go tosome sort of boxing environment
for these reasons.

(12:33):
But I would say that, generallyspeaking, myself or people that
I work with in action movies orpeople that are involved in
martial arts or other sort ofcombat sports or even Krav Maga,
do not like violence, do notwant to be involved in any sort
of real fights, yet we areattracted to these sort of

(12:54):
practice environments, thesesports.
Yet we are attracted to thesesort of practice environments,
these sports.
Why do you think that is, andwhat do you think is it that we
are expressing of ourselvesduring training?
I'm really interested in thatquestion because obviously I'm
an action actress.

(13:18):
I hate violence to such anextent in real life, yet I love
action movies.
I want to be casted for actionmovies.
I want to train my fightingskills.
I love watching these kind ofmovies, but I hate it in real
life.
I have bits and pieces ofanswers, I think.
Sometimes I watch a movie andthen I realize I'm watching this
violent, in between bracketsmovie.
But there is a story ofsurvival, and the story of

(13:40):
survival is so close to ourinstinct as human beings of what
it takes to survive that we gettotally drawn into the story.
Is there anything else thatattracts us to either doing the
sport or these kind of movies,watching it, it or doing it?

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, I do think that there is a myriad of different
reasons why we're drawn to thesethings.
I think in many cases it isthat story of you know, at some
point in our lives we've had anexperience which has stripped us
of our power or stripped us ofsomething, and so, you know,
martial arts is a way for us toget our power back, to get that

(14:16):
experience back, to feelempowered again.
But I do think that there is anelement of a lot of the time we
live, for the most part massivegeneralization here.
But I think we live very kindof monotonous lives as human
beings.
Most people work their nine tofives.
They get up and they go to work, they come home, they look
after the kids, they go to bed,they repeat, and so there's this

(14:38):
monotony.
And so I think that often, ashuman beings, we're looking for
that spark of something thatgives us a sense of aliveness or
a sense of uncertainty, andthis kind of additional stimulus
, I suppose.
And so I think for a lot ofpeople, in a strange way,
martial arts is providing thatis providing this hit of
uncertainty, this hit ofaliveness.

(15:01):
And when we look at the nervoussystem, we also have what's
called blended states so we canbe in our safety state whilst
being in fight state, and sofight state alone is a stress
response, but when it's blendedwith our safety state, it can
look like things like play,fighting with their siblings, it
can look like wrestling withtheir kids or wrestling with the

(15:23):
dog, and so I think martialarts provides us with that.
It provides us with thatopportunity to test ourselves
and to have this experience ofviolence in controlled ways,
where we can find the edges ofwhere we feel comfortable going,
whilst also having theseexperiences of play and bonding.

(15:45):
And almost for lack of a betterterm, for lack of a better way
of putting it, it's like thatexperience of kind of like a
shared suffering.
There there's this interestingbond that happens when you're in
competition with someone injujitsu, where after the fight,
it's like you have this kind ofthis unique bond because it's

(16:06):
the shared struggle, it's theshared suffering of being head
to head with one another andthen coming out of it more
connected than ever.
So I think it's yeah, it's aninteresting blend of wanting to
experience our own edges whilstwanting to connect and also
wanting to maybe gain backsomething that we've had taken
from us at some point in ourlives.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
A couple of things I want to bounce back on.
I have three questions actually.
I'll start with the first one.
You said there was an elementof uncertainty we might be
attracted to and stimulus, andso martial arts, combat sports,
might be an environment thatcreates that level of
uncertainty.
So we're living a little bit onthe edge sort of thing.

(16:49):
Do you think it can also leadto an addiction to dopamine and
adrenaline, or not?

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
I think a lot of the time I'malways hesitant to touch on some
of these topics, but I thinkthis is a safe space to do it.
I think a lot of the time whatI see often in clients who get
into combat sports is thatusually they've had somewhat of
a coyote upbringing and sothere's actually, in a strange
way, there's a sense ofuncertainty in martial arts, but

(17:18):
there's also a familiarity,there's a yeah, there's this
sense of oh, I know thisenvironment, this is familiar to
me, and so it's a way of havingthis need for uncertainty met
in a familiar environment.
And I think a lot of the timewhen someone's had a traumatic
upbringing, when things are toosafe or too certain, there's a

(17:43):
sense of boredom and the boredomactually feels unsafe.
The boredom feels unfamiliar.
The boredom is the thing thatactually has them go into a
stress response.
So I do think a lot of the time, yeah, we're having a need met
for familiarity through theuncertainty of martial arts.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
You said it was an opportunity to test ourselves.
It's an opportunity to grow.
So is it then a true embodimentof I can grow?
That then translates mentallyin self-confidence in other
areas?

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
I think the growth is a basichuman need.
We're driven towards this, andI think this is what separates
us from the animals, because,unlike animals, we do have the
ability to think about whatwe're thinking about.
This is what makes humans, thatwe're driven towards growth,
we're driven towards progression, we're driven towards this
experience of momentum, and so Ido think martial arts is a

(18:42):
really beautiful way for us tofeel like we're progressing at
something, and I think that andforgive me, I don't know if it's
a saying in Krav Maga, but injujitsu or judo or a lot of
those kind of grappling sports,we have the belt system, and I
think that, in and of itself, ispart of what keeps people
committed to the sport, becausewe get to see through the color

(19:05):
of this little one-inch piece ofmaterial, we get to actually
see and experience theirprogress.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Third question you talked about actually the
sparring sessions orcompetitions, are a way to play,
to bond, to create a bond.
After the sparring session,winner, loser, it doesn't matter
, it's the fact that we shared astruggle.
I've done a little bit ofBrazilian jiu-jitsu and I can
relate to that.
However, I've also looked atother combat sports such as

(19:35):
boxing or MMA, and they make awhole thing of making enemies
from each other and until theend they play that game of
enemies.
Do you think it always endsinto a stronger bond or do you
think there are other sportsthat actually the we are enemies
and playing that game of we areenemies until the end also

(19:58):
exists, or do you think italways ends up in a stronger
human connection?

Speaker 2 (20:03):
it doesn't always end in a stronger human connection.
I think it depends on whatdrives someone like.
For myself, I'm very connectiondriven and so for me to be
really transparent, martial artswouldn't be, it wouldn't mean
anywhere near as much to me if Ididn't have that opportunity to
bond with my training partners,to bond with my opponents.

(20:23):
I do think in some sports we dosee that classic and even
jiu-jitsu for that matterjiu-jitsu is not immune to this.
But I think in some sports wedo see that meeting to operate
as though they're enemies and Ithink that that generally points
to someone who needs somethingto fight against.
You know, and maybe it is thatI've had a traumatic upbringing

(20:45):
and so that feels safe and itfeels familiar to have someone
to fight against.
Sometimes I do think that thereis a psychological element to it
of if someone's not your enemy,it's really hard to want to
punch them in the face.
But I also do think when welook at sports like, say, the
UFC or some boxing matches, Ialso do think that there is an

(21:05):
element of marketing in that.
When we look at the likes of,say, conor McGregor, for example
, I think that he reallycapitalized on that WWE
performative kind of hatred ofhis opponent and getting in his
head and all of that as amarketing ploy more than
anything.
And I would actually wonder howmuch truth is behind a lot of

(21:26):
that kind of hatred of oneanother versus how much was just
a way to to draw people'sattention into the sport two
things that sort of you knowcome to mind when you're saying
that.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
I love how you always come back to the this feels
safe and this feels familiar, orthis feels unsafe and this
feels unfamiliar, and how weunconsciously might, yeah, carry
things from our past that feelsafe, which chaos can be such a
known world and a familiar worldand then can end up being a
safe space.

(21:58):
And then I also love that.
You said, well, it might bevery hard to hit somebody in the
face if you don't see them asyour enemy, but, because that
was one of my struggles in KravMaga, obviously we don't hit
people in the face.
There is always an element ofsafety, but we have to take the
scenario as far as possible sothat we can put our nervous

(22:21):
system in a situation that is asclose as possible to reality,
so that we can defend ourselvesif we were to be in a real fight
and for me, you know, hittingsomebody else or I was so scared
to just hurt someone else itjust felt awful, awful, but,
like you said, yeah, how can youactually hit another human

(22:42):
being?
Because empathy is also a partof our natural state of being.
So I find this just superinteresting, and also in terms
of my character analysis as anactress doing action movies and
how I relate to the othercharacters you know as a
character, not as Cindy justgiven on the layer as well and
on how to look at these things.
Yeah, I'd love to talk aboutyour work with high performers

(23:05):
now because, obviously, and inthe world of combat sports and
in the world of dance and in theworld of stunts, we are in the
world of acting.
We are very much a community ofartists that work with this
reality, that is, you don't knowwhen the next job is going to
come, yet you always have to beready for the next job.
So there is a bit of anunderlining mentality of you got

(23:30):
to be ready 365 days a week.
So we are always ready for thenext casting.
Our bodies are always trainingin case the next job is coming
tomorrow and then, when we areon the job, we want to do the
best that we can because we'reso passionate about all of that.
Please feel free, you know, toadd anything that comes up for
you, but maybe the first thingI'll start with is you emphasize

(23:53):
the sentence a lot, which isless, is more.
Could you tell us more aboutwhat that means and also how we
as artists, actors, stunts anddancers, can apply this less is
more to our industries and oureveryday life.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I think, as high performers,we're often encouraged to work
hard to the point of struggle orto the point of suffering.
I think that there's such akind of undercurrent mentality
of like really grinding yourselfinto the ground.
And so, when we look at thatfrom a nervous system

(24:28):
perspective, if we're always inthis kind of high stress, high
functioning state, like our bodyisn't having time to switch
into parasympathetic mode, we'renot having time to rest and
recover, and so when I speakabout less is more, it's really
about being really intentionaland efficient in where you do

(24:49):
put your energy.
So there's threads of you knowwhat I spoke about earlier,
which is knowing what has you atyour best, and really doubling
down on that, being discerning,about moving away from or
limiting um putting yourself indynamics that have you at your
worst.
I think and forgive me here,because this is a little bit

(25:09):
difficult to answer withoutwithout specifically having
someone sitting in front of mewhere we can pick through their
unique set of circumstances butI really think of that as like
finding the here's a good way ofputting it finding the minimal
effective dose that's going toget you the result that you're
looking for without kind ofhaving to go above and beyond.

(25:32):
So I use the analogy.
Actually, I'll tell you a storyquickly.
I have a lot of kind ofconnections within the farming
industry and and forgive me forany animal lovers here, because
it's not a I'm an animal lovertoo.
It's not the nicest example,but I think it paints a really
clear picture.
So eagles I often use eagles asan analogy in my work.

(25:53):
So I talk about how the eaglesare incredibly efficient.
They're actually very lazyanimals.
A lot of the time when theyhave the opportunity they'll
pick roadkill up off the road.
When they fly, they're notactively flying.
A lot of the time they'reactually catching the updrafts
and when it comes to hunting,they don't really move into
action until they've alreadyspotted their prey.

(26:15):
The rest of the time they'rejust gliding, gliding on the
updrafts.
And so I had an experience acouple of months ago where I
went out to a friend's farmingproperty and I noticed that a
particular time of the day allof the eagles were sitting out
on the trees and just likelooking out over the paddocks.
And so I asked the owner of thefarm like why are the eagles
here at the same time every day?

(26:36):
And he explained to me, it'sbecause the eagles have learned
over time.
That's usually when thekangaroos come out, and the
kangaroos are pests, and so thefarmer will come out and shoot
the kangaroos, and so the eaglesare now hunting the kangaroos,
but rather than having to huntfor prey themselves, they're
doing it much more efficientlybecause they've already been

(26:57):
killed.
And so, in a nutshell, it'sthat it's figuring out how you
can still get the job donewithout burning yourself to the
ground, without doing it in away where you're stressed out
and high strung and exhaustedand fatigued, without having to
be in this perpetual state ofstruggle, but still getting the
job done.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Before I bounce back on the efficiency, I must say
I'm a bit shocked.
Are you guys like killingkangaroos in australia?

Speaker 2 (27:26):
they're pests here, but they're, yeah, the country's
overrun with them.
A lot of foreigners are soshocked but, yeah, they're the
country's really over outrun,overrun with them, okay.
But that's.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
That's another topic, so the animal lover in me will
just okay I know that's a pieceof news.
I was not expecting to hearkangaroos.
Just I know that they can bevery dangerous and stuff, but I
never thought that they would beseen or perceived as pests.
Yeah, all right, let's go backto to efficiency, minimum

(27:55):
effective dose for maximumimpact, sort of thing, would you
say.
It's a bit similar to the 20,80, but 80 of the of your effort
in that 20 of actions.
Yes, that give you 80 of theresults, kind of.
Thing yeah, that's a perfect wayof putting it, because
obviously I'm also passionateabout fitness and bodybuilding
has also been a part of myjourney.

(28:16):
And there is also this way oflooking at long-term training,
which is okay how can I build amaximum amount of muscles in
doing certain exercises or doinga certain programming?
But then also there is thisvery important thing that we
also have to look at, which isthat we have to go into deload

(28:36):
after a certain amount of weeks.
So for a certain amount ofweeks we use a certain amount of
weights, we lift heavier andheavier, and then for a week or
two we take time off because ourmuscles need to repair.
And I think that is often thecycle that artists we find
difficult to find is those twoweeks of repair.
For example, when I was aprofessional dancer, you never

(28:59):
know when the next casting is,so you cannot let yourself go
into these two weeks of repair,because what if you call
tomorrow for a casting andyou've got to look your best and
be your best?
And yeah, I think those are thelittle moments that we find it
more difficult.
You talk about common survivalmechanisms that you see in high
performers.
What are about common survivalmechanisms that you see in high

(29:20):
performers.
What are the common survivalmechanisms and how can we
overcome them?

Speaker 2 (29:26):
So I think a lot of the common survival mechanisms
are that mentality of having topush ourselves to extremes in
order to prove ourselves or inorder to feel like we're good
enough.
It can be that phrase response.
I think probably the main onethat I see really in if we're
talking sports specific andentrepreneurship for that matter

(29:47):
is really that like fightresponse of oh, I've got to
really be willing to struggle inorder to prove myself.
That prove myself piece isusually a pretty clear
indication that there's a bit oflike a us versus them mentality
or a bit of a fight responsementality kind of occurring
there.
And yeah, again, at risk ofrepeating myself here, it's

(30:09):
really about starting tounderstand what does trigger off
these different states for anindividual.
So I always encourage all of myclients to get really
well-versed in what their fightresponse, their flight response
and their freeze response lookslike for them, so tracking it
down to such a nuanced extentthat they're able to identify it

(30:33):
in the heat of the moment, likeas it's occurring.
So for me, I know that a fightresponse for me does look like
like my palms start to getsweaty, I know that like I start
to get this heated feeling upthrough my chest coming up into
my face.
I know that my thoughts start tobecome a little bit more like
either blame or defensive.
I know that a freeze responsefor me feels like my limbs start

(30:56):
to get heavy and it's likeeverything gets really like
eerily quiet, like my senses area little bit more diminished.
And so, yeah, I reallyencourage my clients to to start
to track what these responseslook like for themselves so that
they can first of all identifywhen they're in those states and
then, from there, start tocreate a toolbox of okay, when

(31:18):
I'm in a freeze response, a hotbath is the quickest thing to
get me out.
If I have that available to me,or speaking to myself in a
particular way is a great wayfor me to get out of freeze
response.
Or like squeezing all of themuscles in my body brings energy
to my system, so that helps tobring me out of freeze response.
So, yeah, I first of allidentifying it and having an
awareness of what it looks like,but then also starting to build

(31:41):
out like a toolkit for lack ofa better way of putting it that
helps us to move out of it.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Earlier on, you told me, cindy, sometimes it's
difficult for me to say orexpress how my methodology works
if I don't have a person infront of me with a specific set
of struggles or conflicts.
So I wanted to ask you howabout you coach me for five
minutes, yeah, with my personalthings, because these things
that you just shared, not beinggood enough and I have to

(32:10):
struggle to prove myself, reallyreflect a part of my reality.
Are you up for?

Speaker 2 (32:16):
that challenge challenge.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, okay.
So let's start with the firstone.
And I'm not good enough.
And pushing ourselves to someextremes.
I'm somebody that will gothrough extremes.
Like I said, for example, if Iget into Krav Maga, I'm going to
start training 17 hours a week.
Did it lead me to burnout atsome point?
Absolutely, my nervous systemwas not able to handle.

(32:38):
It was not the amount oftraining, it was the amount of
triggering of my nervous systemfeeling unsafe because we're
sparring so much in a week thatI couldn't handle.
But yeah, I don't know if it'slike some sort of undiagnosed
ADHD that gets me into extremesfor these things.
I also believe there is thissense, this underlying thought

(33:01):
of I'm not good enough.
I'm not good enough.
There is also this sense of I'mnot perfect enough.
For example, a lot of myfriends that do action movies.
They have a very strongbackground in martial arts.
They grew up doing martial arts.
I didn't.
I have a background in dancethat turned into a passion for

(33:21):
fitness, that turned into apassion for choreographed fights
, and so now, over the last fewyears, I've been trying to do
Brazilian jiu-jitsu and KravMaga and try to be as
specialized as I can.
But there is this underlyingthought of am I good enough?
Do I know enough?
I know a lot in comparison toother artists.

(33:43):
I dive deep into how to be agood actress.
I dive deep into how to be agood movement artist, but how
can I go against this thing thatsometimes makes me pursue all
these paths to an extreme?

Speaker 2 (33:58):
First of all, I want to celebrate you for your
honesty here and for sharingthat, because I think that this
is something that most peopleface in some way, shape or form.
It's just very few actuallyadmit to it, so I really want to
acknowledge you for that.
There's a few, just for thelisteners sake.
There's a myriad of differentways that I could tackle this,

(34:19):
but, for the sake of time, thekey thing that stands out to me
in what you've shared is there'sa piece here around
self-concept and my work withthe Bollie Blueprint, which is
essentially my methodology thatI created.
We work across 10 pillars.
We work across 10 pillars ofnervous system regulation and
one of those pillars isself-concept, so it's

(34:44):
essentially how we see ourselvesin relation to the world.
So the first thing that I wantto ask you because it sounds
like you're clear on what youdon't want, but if you had it
all your way, how would you wantit to be Like?
How would you like to knowyourself, how would you like to
experience yourself in relationto your training, relation to
your career, kind of picture forme I would love if I had it all
my way.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
I would love to basically be casted for a role
where I know exactly whichmovement skills I need, because
at the moment I'm training for avariety of opportunities.
But if I had a specific rolewhere we are like, okay, you're
gonna need to master, you knowbo staff or you're gonna need to

(35:23):
master Brazilian jiu-jitsu,then I would.
I think there would be astronger sense, a stronger peace
of mind, because I'm like, okay, I can just and only focus on
these two practices becausethat's what I need for this
specific role.
I think what kind of makes mego in all different directions
is number one I'm a multifacetedartist.

(35:45):
I'm making film, I'm directingfilm, I'm writing, I'm acting.
So that already makes me go indifferent directions.
But then I think, when it comesto my movement practice is, I
don't know which role might comemy way, so I'm doing and krav
maga, and boxing, and Brazilianjiu-jitsu, and learning bo staff

(36:05):
, and still dancing, and sothat's where I put myself at
risk of burnout, and I know itand it happens.
I think it's the clarity andthe fact that I don't have a
specific role at the moment or abig role where I'm like okay,
that's what we're going to focuson for a year.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, okay, beautiful .
So can I point something out toyou here?
Sure, there is a really subtlehanding over of your power here.
So it's and don't get me wrongit makes absolute sense.
So there is an element here ofbecause I haven't been told what
specific roles I'll get.
I don't know what to focus on,right, so you're focusing on

(36:48):
everything.
So this is where you get tomake a choice right and really
take your power back.
Either you double down on yourpreferred roles and make that
like you're a specialist in, say, krav Maga and whatever jujitsu
, let's just say and you justhunt those roles, or and I'm

(37:09):
gonna guess there's assumptionsin here, so correct me if I'm
wrong or you get to own yourpower as a multifaceted
individual, which one feels morealigned.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Multifaceted.
Let me explore a lot of thingsand let me get excited about a
lot of things and, yeah, divedeep into a variety of yeah,
that's what really gets meexcited about life.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Beautiful.
So you get to own that, and Ireally resonate with this
because in my work, like I'msomeone, I'm so multi, I have so
many, a myriad of differenthobbies, a myriad of different.
I wanted to try everything andanything can study all of it,
and I would see so many peoplein similar lines of work to me
where they would pick one thingand they would double down on it

(37:53):
and I would think, oh, if onlyI just have one interest, and
that was it, that I could justgo all in on that.
But what I realised down thetrack was that I was actually
discounting the fact that I cando something that they can't,
and that is taking this myriadof different interests and
bringing them together in a waythat they didn't have access to
because they were only good atone thing, which neither is

(38:16):
better or worse.
It's just that they've gotaccess to different
opportunities, dependent on whatpath they've chosen to take.
And so if you were to fully ownyour power as someone who is
multifaceted, then who would youknow yourself as?

Speaker 1 (38:34):
I would know myself as the person that does
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and bowstaffing and dance and all of it
, because I always sayperception of others is I'm
changing box, but the perceptionI have of myself is no, my box
is getting bigger and bigger andbigger, and that's what excites
me about life Beautiful.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah.
So I would really look out foryou, and this is a very human
thing to do.
So it's not to say that you'vegot it wrong.
It's not to say that you'vemessed it up, anything like that
.
As humans, we instinctuallylook towards the negatives.
We instinctually look towards.
We put more emphasis on thethings that we don't want,
because we're looking at thethings we don't want so that we

(39:15):
can avoid them and survive them.
I would really encourage for youput all of the emphasis on what
you do want, so you want youcan sit here and say to me oh, I
don't want to experience notfeeling good enough.
I don't want to experiencedoubting myself.
I don't want to experience theburnout that comes with trying
to do everything all at once.
Put all of your focus on makingwhat you do want so real that

(39:40):
you bring it to life.
Put the emphasis on what you dowant being so crystal clear in
your mind that you can tell meexactly what it looks like,
exactly how much money you'd bemaking, exactly how many
opportunities you'd get eachyear, exactly what those
opportunities would look like,how that would make you feel,

(40:02):
how people would respond to youas a result of that, your
internal dialogue as a result ofthat and keep getting clearer
and clearer, so that reality ismuch more.
If I were to ask you what youdesire, that reality is so
crystal clear that you couldtell me it without any
hesitation, to a greater extentthan telling me what you're

(40:23):
trying to move away from.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Absolutely, and that is going to lead me to the
second part of our personalcoaching.
You talked about that.
There was this sense of needingto struggle so that we can
prove ourselves.
That is something that isrecurrent with high performers.
So I'd love to talk aboutabundance and financial success.

(40:49):
So you said about focusing onwhat we want, or internal
dialogue.
I think abundance and feeling abit more settled financially
speaking has been obviously abig focus for me as an artist,
because it is made of a lot ofups and downs, a lot of
instability, a lot of we don'tknow how we're going to earn

(41:10):
next month, and so I've lived alife where there was no
financial stability and I wantedto become a bit more stable.
Now I am, for the very firsttime of my life, in a stronger

(41:31):
position when it comes toabundance and material stability
.
Yet I feel there is and I'vebeen journaling a lot about this
.
I had to go through a processof just accepting it for myself.
Hey, that's where you're atright now and it's freaking
amazing, but I can feel in howI'm sharing it with my friends.
There is not.
My words lack something.

(41:54):
I don't know if it lacks poweror if it lacks pride, or if it.
But there is this I'm holdingback in truly sharing with
people around me.
Hey, that's where I'm at rightnow.
There is not.
I'm not saying that I'm notgoing through struggles right
now, but the sense of strugglingfinancially is way different

(42:18):
from what I experienced before.
Yet I'm not fully sharing withothers.
I do not struggle right now andI am in a stronger place.
Is that related to?
I can't prove myself enough ifI don't share the struggle,
because I'm journaling a lotabout it.
I'm just catching my wordingswhen I'm sharing it with others

(42:39):
and I can see and feel thatthere is something that is not
fully um embracing where I'm atright now.
Yeah, I would love to have yourinsights on it yeah, absolutely
so.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
It sounds like it comes back to that self-concept
piece a little bit.
I think a lot of the time,artists, we have that identity
of the struggling artist.
Unfortunately, it is a industrywhere financial struggle is
common, and if we bring it backto what we were speaking about
earlier around certainty andfamiliarity and anything that

(43:13):
our nervous system hasn'texperienced before, we deem
unsafe, that our nervous systemhasn't experienced before we
deem unsafe, right.
And so it's about settingourselves up to have more of the
experiences that we desire,more of the experiences that are
unfamiliar and uncertain, buthaving them in safe spaces where
we can start to train ourselves.

(43:34):
That, oh no, this is a safeexperience to have, and our
self-concept is that of I'vealways been the struggling
artist, this is how my friendsrelate to me, this is how I
receive, this is how I'msupported, and whatever else may
come with having some elementof financial success, then
you're going to avoid anythingthat's not that familiar.
So you've got to start trainingyour system more towards that.

(43:58):
It is safe to be financiallywell off, it is safe to be an
abundant individual, it is safeto be wealthy, it is safe to
have an abundance of opportunityflowing your way, and so this
could look like something assimple as to begin with, just
actually have it.
It sounds a little bit bizarre,but actually just having a
conversation with yourself tobegin with like having these
conversations of oh my God,you'll never guess how much

(44:20):
money I've just made, you'llnever guess how much money I've
got sitting in my bank accountand having the conversation back
with yourself that you hope tohave from your peers, or
something as simple as if you'reworried about what kind of
response you're going to getfrom your friends.
Maybe you've got that one friendwho is a really safe space and
you can just say to them hey,I've noticed this pattern, but I

(44:41):
tend to like overshadow mysuccesses a little bit.
I'm not sure why, but can Ishare with you some of my, some
of what is happening in my life,and would you mind just really
celebrating me in this?
And then so you're, you'resetting yourself up with that
learned experience that not onlyis it safe to be, to do well,

(45:02):
but you also get connection indoing well and over time kind of
building that.
So I actually encourage all ofmy clients to brag when a client
comes and works with me, thefirst thing that I do because
and I'm not sure what it's likein your culture but in Australia
we've got this tall poppysyndrome where it's oh no, we
want the underdog to win, but wedon't want anyone to be above

(45:24):
average.
And so as a way to counteractthat, I encourage my clients
come in here and just brag andbrag and have that become such a
familiar sensation.
Have that sensation of reallyshining.
Be so familiar that you feelsafe in being seen, you feel
safe in doing well, you feelsafe in your success and your

(45:45):
abundance and you get connectionfrom it.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Flippin' love this.
Nobody has ever told me goahead, cindy and brag yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Yeah, like me and my friends and I'm very blessed
with friends who get this workWe'll be like hey, we'll ring
each other.
Hey, can I have a brag?
Do you mind if I just brag?
Yeah, go for it.
And we'll sit there and we'lljust hype each other up.
And it's so beautiful because,again, I come from a culture
where it's not safe to be aboveaverage, it's not safe to shine
too bright and so to have peersaround me who encourage it and

(46:20):
bounce back with the same energy, it's oh, it's now welcome to
to do well.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah, I'm going to definitely go and try it out.
I will keep you updated,Brianna.
If people want to work with youbecause obviously I'm guessing
that you also work with clientsonline and stuff If they want to
work with you, get to know moreabout your coaching programs.
Where can they find more aboutit?

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, If they search my name, Brianna Bowley, on
pretty much any social mediaplatform, they'll find me.
I also want to mention I'vejust created a new dominant
state quiz that they can checkout.
So basically this will.
It's just a series of questions, it takes about two minutes and
it will help you identify whatyour predominant state is and
then you'll get emailed out abunch of tips and resources and

(47:05):
stuff to support you in startingto shift that.
So you can access it atwwwnsquizcom it's free and yeah.
So searching my name on anysocial media, If you've taken
something from this episode,please message me and let me
know, because I love hearingfeedback.
I love hearing what people havetaken away.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Thank you so much, brianna, and we will put the
quiz in the show notes so peoplecan access it straight away.
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