BONUS 6: Autoproduire ses films (Français)

(This Bonus episode is in French. For subtitles, please listen on Youtube.)

Et si la voie traditionnelle de faire ses films – attendre des années pour obtenir des subventions – n'était pas la seule voie possible ?

L'animatrice du podcast, Cindy Claes, a invité Brandon Gotto, un cinéaste belge qui a pris les choses en main et qui a créé plusieurs longs métrages avec des micro-budgets allant de 1 000 à 5 000 €. 

« Pour moi, chaque film est une question de vie ou de mort. Je dois le faire », confie Brandon avec une passion sincère. Alors que de nombreux réalisateurs passent des années à naviguer le labyrinthe bureaucratique des commissions cinématographiques, Brandon a progressivement construit un CV impressionnant en opérant en dehors du système.

Cet épisode lève le voile sur les réalités pratiques du cinéma indépendant et offre des conseils pratiques pour commencer à créer ses propres films dès maintenant, sans attendre les conditions idéales.

Instagram Cindy Claes:

@cindy_claes

Instagram Brandon Gotto:

@brandongotto_filmmaker

Inferno - Bande Annonce:

https://youtu.be/4NEp0f58k2Y?si=qZDPWGssgKJL-P4o

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast.
Today's episode will be inFrench.
You can watch it on YouTubewith subtitles.
Bienvenue au podcast de LoudWhisper Takeover.
Aujourd'hui, on va parler enfrançais.
C'est un épisode bonus Et on vaaborder un grand sujet qui est
le fait de faire ses films, sespropres films, de manière

(00:25):
indépendante, mais sanssubvention.
Est-ce que c'est possible?
Où est-ce qu'on trouve le feuet la niaque pour le faire?
Quels sont les côtés positifsde le faire sans subvention?
Quels sont les moments durs?
On va parler de toutes cesréalités avec what are the hard
times?
We will talk about all theserealities with a Belgian guest.

(00:47):
So here in Belgium, we havesomething called the Cinema
Commission and then we also havethe WAF in Flanders.
In general, it's the bigsubsidies for which the
screenwriters, the directors, goto try to realize their
projects.
Les réalisateurs vont pouressayer de réaliser leur projet,
mais si j'ai un invité qui l'afait par lui-même, sans attendre

(01:09):
ces grandes subventions, et onva en parler, bienvenue à
brandon goto.
Salut, brandon.
Comment ça va?

Speaker 2 (01:14):
tout, c'est bien.
Bonjour à toi.
Et ben, ça va, ça va, j'espèreque toi aussi.
Et encore merci pourl'invitation et l'opportunité de
parler de tout ça.
C'est très the invitation andthe opportunity to talk about
all this.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's very cool.
Ah well, listen, I'm super,super excited.
So I'm Belgian originally, butI spent 18 years abroad.
I lived in London, paris,madrid, barcelona, but it's been
seven months.
Let's say that I'm integratingmyself into the Belgian cinema
industry and when I was toldabout your work, it really

(01:47):
inspired me because I thoughtthere's someone in Belgium who
makes these films, who doesn'tnecessarily expect the subsidies
.
So I can't wait to talk aboutwhat's going on in Belgium, how
you started and all that.
So maybe you can start bytelling us are you self-taught
or have you done a school?

(02:08):
Because for now, you're ascreenwriter and director.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yes, yes, so I'm self-taught.
So it's true that I think, if Ihad had the opportunity, I
would have done the school ofcinema.
Unfortunately, it was not toopossible towards the end of my
adolescence.
So well, I continued to makefilms as much as possible, I
learned from my mistakes, andit's still not perfect now, but
let's say that it's starting tobecome concrete since 2022.

(02:34):
And so finally, self-taught ornot, anyway, I tell myself that
this is my path.
I have to assume it andcontinue like that.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
In fact, quite simply , I have to assume it and
continue like that, in fact,quite simply.
And so, how many films have youmade?
I know you've made short films,and you've made several long
films too.
How many have you?

Speaker 2 (03:00):
made, and how many have been made without great
subsidies but in anself-produced way.
Practically all well, not evenpractically all so.
Obviously, if we count thelittle films since I was a kid,
I think we're at the 83rd.
But otherwise, since it'sconcrete, since it's getting
pretty serious, I'm at my fifthfeature film and a dozen horror
short films to say to feed theYouTube channel that we have for
our little production.

(03:21):
But well, that's really a bonus.
So we're going to say fivefeature films.
Officially, that's it.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, but it's already fantastic.
I mean already the fact ofdoing five feature films it's
still a long CV and then thefact also of self-producing them
.
Well, I find that absolutelyincredible.
What is it?
So?
You were a screenwriter anddirector for all these films.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yes, I write the scripts myself, I direct, I edit
too.
Well, because well, self-taughtand independent, so no choice.
But it's not a problem for me.
I like to keep control overcertain things.
But then it's true that, well,five feature films, but it's
true that, well, I tell myselfevery time one is finished, it's

(04:03):
almost a miracle, because whenwe're independent, unfortunately
, since there is no grant, nobig financial security behind it
, everything can break at anytime.
And so every time I put thefinal point or the ending
credits, it's clear that I sayto myself we were lucky, we made
it to the end.
And well, it seems to berepeated every year.
So here we are, let's hope itcontinues.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
What kind of films do you produce?
Répéter chaque année.
Donc voilà, espérons que çacontinue.
Quel genre de film est ce quetu produis?
Parce que je sais que tu asproduit à des films d'horreur,
mais il ya aussi des drames, desdrames sociaux.
Ce qu'en général, c'est cesdeux genres là.
Où est ce qu'il ya d'autresgenres de cinéma que tu as
réalisé?

Speaker 2 (04:38):
bien souvent, tout ce que je réalise est assez noir
et une certaine noirceur quiplaignent sur sur mon travail,
sur mes films.
Après.
Bon voilà, je pense que c'estis quite black and a certain
blackness that fills on my work,on my films.
After good.
Here I think it's somethingquite jambé.
Anyway, there is here.
It can go from the thriller tohorror films or to the drama.
But even if it's a simple drama, there is always a small point
of horror, a small point ofblackness.

(04:58):
So I think that here we are,yes, here it is.
There is genre in there, that'sfor sure.
It's, it's it's, it's mostlythat way there, that's for sure
it's a lot of fun.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
I know that some of your films have been nominated,
have won prizes.
I know that there was the RedMovie Awards.
Can you talk about some prizesthat you've won?
That really warmed your heart.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
The most important for me.
There are a lot of festivals,whether online or physically,
but for now, the two mostimportant for me.
There are a lot of festivals,whether online or in physical,
but for now, the two mostimportant prizes that we have
won are the prize of the bestdrama at the Red Movie Awards, a
festival that takes on a largescale every year and takes place
in Reims.
I had two, we had two for thebest drama for two of my

(05:43):
previous years Iris and Ida.
So well, that's it.
It's always nice, it's arecognition, because it's
complicated to impose oneself asan independent in this
landscape.
So that's it, but withouttaking the big head for that, in
fact, at the limit.
I see that as a reward, but Isay to myself oh shit.
Well, so you absolutely mustnot become a dickhead, nor

(06:06):
become a self-sacrifice, becauseunfortunately, there are some
who, for much less than that,they take the melon, and so you
have to keep the balance in yourhead, in your motivations.
But but the reward is always apleasure, of course.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
I know that you told me that recently.
You can also live in itsomewhere, so do your films live
on platforms in streaming?
What's going on can also livein it somewhere, so do your
films live on platforms instreaming.
What are some successes thatyou have been able to achieve
now with your films?

Speaker 2 (06:30):
And that's interesting for all those who
make independent films.
A few years ago, four or fiveyears ago, it was really
unimaginable to be able torecover a little bit of your
investment on these films,produced and self-produced.
We even said that it was afinancial hole, that there was a
lot of time, money, that wenever recovered anything.
And there, for a few years,there is a platform called

(06:53):
FilmHub, which serves as a relayto publish films on Amazon, on
Apple TV, all these platforms,provided that it is accepted,
and there I was lucky.
Of the five feature films I did, for now there are four that
have is accepted and there, well, here I had the chance.
On the five feature films I made, for the moment there are four
that have been accepted andtherefore, totally incredible
thing, still a few years.
There it starts to make money,returns, more and more important

(07:15):
, to the point that here is, theinvestment is no longer lost
and therefore we recover ourhobbies and it allows us to live
more slowly.
So so this is something thatseemed unimaginable a few years
ago.
In Belgian independentlandscapes.
It's starting to be more andmore anchored.
Frankly, it's great After.
I don't do it for money, butit's clear that when there is a

(07:38):
return on financial investment,it's nice, even if it's only to
produce more.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
And so it's called FilmHub.
Yes, yes, yes, and so is it adistribution agency, or is it a
platform that is available, thatis available to?

Speaker 2 (07:54):
everyone.
It's available to everyone.
It's true that it could work.
It's a kind of agency maybe Idon't know if we can say that,
but in any case, yes, we sign up, we fill in a sheet for the
film we want to publish, sothere you have to put the total

(08:14):
synopsis, summary, hashtags,everything, the genre, the
duration.
Well, there, you have to besure that it meets certain
quality criteria, both video andaudio.
So there's always a chance oftwo, whether it's taken or not.
And so there you go.
After that, we can submit thefilm to the platform, and once
it's accepted, it's them whowill start, since it's a real
distribution company towardsAmazon, apple and many other
platforms.
But it's accessible to everyone, to anyone who has content.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
it's accessible, but is it only for feature films, or
is it also for short films?

Speaker 2 (08:41):
There can be series, web series and short films.
So for short films, there maybe series, web series and short
films.
So for short films, amazonPrime Video will take much less.
I think they are much moreinclined to take long films, but
it happens that sometimes theyaccept short films and that
allows the director to recovertheir money.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
So let's talk about the budget.
Maybe we can focus.
Let's focus, maybe, on your twoor three last long films.
Maybe, when we say that, maybefirst the question is why have
you done them without a grant?
Have you tried to have one?
Have you tried to present it tothe Cinema Commission and have

(09:21):
you failed?
Or have you never tried?
You said to yourself, well,anyway, I'll do it anyway.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
For the previous ones .
I'm a bit of a fool.
So there you go.
It takes time for the piece tofall, but I'm very impatient,
that's true, and as I had done alot of short films as a young
man, etc.
I'm always used to doing thingsmyself and not expecting
anything from anyone.
So it's true that until a veryshort time ago, I never passed
in commission, and because, infact, you have to be represented

(09:47):
by a producer in the middle andit's him who will allow you to
submit the file, to write allthat, to constitute all that.
So my impatience has made menever try.
So the budgets for the previousones were quite small and
variable, but we were between1,000 and 2,000 euros.
But on the other hand, forInferno, which you saw, the ad

(10:07):
board in Exclu there, forexample, before being generously
produced by my friend with aslightly more important budget,
I had tried to contact aproducer.
They were very interested.
It was done.
So we rewrote the scenarioseveral times.
Everything was ready to be putin commission.
Finally it went well with them.
I think that there is really agap between the independent and,
unfortunately, the directors ofthe environment.

(10:27):
And so, yeah, all that made meeven more disgusted to want to
go through the commissions Afterthat.
It would be good, obviously,but I have the impression that
it's already the third producerwith whom I'm trying to get
through the process, and I thinkthat's the only way to get
through the commissions After.
It would be good, obviously,but I have the impression that
it's already the third producerwith whom I'm trying to go

(10:50):
through these steps.
But I think there's somethingthat will be in the way at this
level, so I continueindependently.
But it's clear that one day itwould be good that it happens.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Just for those who listen to us, the cinema
commission is really the keypoint qu'un jour, ce serait bien
que ça arrive.
Juste pour ceux qui nousécoutent, la commission du
cinéma, c'est vraiment le pointclé, en tout cas en Belgique
francophone, où les cinéastes,les scénaristes, les
réalisateurs vont pour pitcherleur projet, pour avoir de
l'argent, en général, ilsdoivent être accompagnés d'un
producteur, parce que sinon, ilsne peuvent même pas être vus en
commission.

(11:23):
Donc, t'as essayé de faire ça àplusieurs reprises.
Un de tes derniers films, enfin, sur lequel tu es en
post-production maintenant, jepense c'est Inferno.
Donc, tu as essayé de passer lacommission.
Je sais que la compétition encommission est très élevée.
On reçoit du feedback.
Les gens peuvent revenir encommission, mais very high.

(11:45):
We receive feedback.
People can come back to thecommission, but by applying the
feedback, the feedback they have.
So sometimes it takes months oreven years to get there.
And so here you really made thechoice to make your film by
telling yourself well, I don'twant to go through all these
steps and I'm impatient, I wantit to happen and I want it to
happen now.
Clearly, it's true.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Well after that.
The country is small and Ithink you have to find the.
It's complicated to find thefunding, but it's true that, yes
, there are sometimes thingsit's terribly long and there,
for the moment, where finally itdidn't even come to fruition
yeah, it took almost sevenmonths, so it's not much
compared to some, but it's truethat for me, every film is a
question, morally, of life ordeath.

(12:27):
I have to do it.
So sometimes I want to bepatient for things to go better.
But there, clearly, in the caseof Inferno, I know that it was
seven long, painful monthsbetween the wait without being
sure that it would come true,and next to that, my friend who
was looking at me and saying, no, but come back to me, come back
to me, I'll give you the money.
Well, not the budgets of theFederation, but I'll give you

(12:48):
the money and we'll do it rightnow.
Right now, and so well afterthat.
I did it because finally itdidn't work out with the
commission and the production,but it's true that it's terribly
long, and there's even a cinemashow in Belgium called Home
Cinema, hosted by a Belgiandirector.
And then there are directors inthe middle who explain the
course and how they came to maketheir first feature film and

(13:12):
when I hear people say, for asmall film, say yes, it took
seven years in commission.
But how is it possible?
But how Really?
I'm going to put myself on theback of certainly many people.
But how can we make people soangry?
A mature project is necessary,I totally agree with that.
But seven years, my God, thepoor people.
There's nothing to cry about.

(13:32):
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
In addition, I can relate, I can so much.
How do you say that in French?

Speaker 2 (13:41):
You understand, you identify yourself or something
like that.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yes, I identify myself so much with this thing
that you say for understand, youidentify yourself with
something like that.
Yes, I identify myself so muchwith this thing that you say for
me, it's a question of life ordeath For me.
I have the impression that whenthere are stories that come to
me or that I want to express,they have to be expressed
because there is a kind of therenow it's, but clearly, clearly
it's.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
And I'm not saying that in seven years this story
doesn't need to be told but it'sclear that there's a distance
that.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
No, but clearly, clearly it's something else.
No, but it's sure it'ssomething else, it's sure.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
There's, I think, a strong intuition that feeds all
that.
And then after that it's maybemy scared side of life.
But time goes by quickly andthe lost days, we won't get them
back, and so after that it maybe a trap, but I can't say.
I say to myself no, no, I can'twait.
As long as I can do it, as longas I have health, I can do it.
After that we're not allthinking like that, but it's

(14:35):
clear that it's a bit my engineto be so productive.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I tell myself we don't know what tomorrow is made
of, so let's enjoy it when youthink about it, if someone is
seven years old to make a film,he makes a film in seven years,
while here you are talking to meabout a CV of five long films,
ten short films.
I don't know how long you didit, but you did it in much less
time than seven years and it'san experience.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
The more we have experience, the more we are on
the field, the more you improveas an artist.
It's clear, yes, there is thisside of maintaining the machine,
of letting it run well, butafter that, it's true that,
anyway, even if I'm notcomplacent about what I do not
at all, I'm always the worstcritic to advance.
But after, yes, obviously,comparatively, it will obviously
have nothing to do with aproject subsidized with 3

(15:29):
million euros, of course, but inany case, that's what I try
with my team every time.
It's to try to do things theway they should be done, so that
it gets old, well and again,without being complacent.
But there, I just just reviewedida, one of the films that I
sent you, which dates from, Ithink I shot it three years ago.
I said to myself go, it's onthe road.

(15:50):
I was pleasantly surprised.
So, as what sometimes?
To concentrate well and makesure that it goes through the
time.
Good, here it is maybe not aproject at 3 million euros, but
I think that there is somethingafter.
Then again, it's maybesubjective.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
You were talking about making a film, a feature
film, on budgets of more or less1,000 to 2,000 euros.
Is that more or less the budgeton which you are working?

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Except the last one where there was a little bit
more, but otherwise, globallyit's about that.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
And what is the last step?
So?

Speaker 2 (16:27):
the last one.
My friend told me listen, Iinvested 2,000 euros, do what
you want with it, get out ofhere.
Then finally he got into thegame.
He started adding, adding,adding and finally I think we
have around 5,000 balls and Ithink that money doesn't do
everything.
You need motivation, you needthe talents that surround us,
the team, etc.
But it's true that withhindsight it's a different story

(16:51):
.
Not everything is done.
You need motivation, you needthe talents around us, the team,
etc.
But it's true that withhindsight it's a different story
.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
We were able to afford more things thanks to the
budget.
So it's true that right away itchanges the situation.
Let's talk about sacrifices,because if we make a film with a
reduced budget and here we'retalking about a feature film
it's still great that you manageto make a feature film on such
budgets.
What are the things that youwere able to afford with those
5,000 euros that you wouldn'thave been able to afford with
2,000?
Because I suppose there are alot of people who also give

(17:19):
their time voluntarily etc.
Yes, yes, yes, but what to allowyou, in addition to those who
were extras?
Is it the allocation ofmaterial?
Are these places that you haverented what?

Speaker 2 (17:32):
made it look different After.
It's true that, how to explaincompared to the others?
It's true that the previousfilms, as there was not much
budget, I said to myself well,we're going to limit the sets.
Often it's one or two sets.
It was even often huis closwith very few characters, and
like that.
Well, we had a little morebudget to scare the actors.
That's it.
Be sure to provide enough food.

(17:52):
No one ever had an appetite forour shooting.
But there, where usually thereare three, four main characters,
there, for example, there were27 talking roles.
So you have to know how tomanage all that.
So that's it.
It allowed us to have littleassistants who help us during
shooting days to do the falserain, to have the means to quote
unquote to take this source offalse rain to places where

(18:15):
usually, without budget, wewould not have been able to have
them.
And so, yes, actually to rentplaces, sets, to be able to
block the streets, becauseunfortunately, the barriers to
barriers, to block the streetsfor the shoots, it costs.
You would think that it's themunicipalities of each city who
take care of that, but in factno.
So it allowed us to framethings a little better and to

(18:35):
lose less time than when we dothat in the wild without
authorization.
But here we are.
We depend a little on excuse methe expression the dick that
passes three times in the car.
So it allowed a little morecomfort in the realization, but
always looking for the energy tobe able to do it.
Of course it's not to rest onour shoulders.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
I suppose that, as you already know that you're
going to make the film withlittle budget.
I suppose that, as ascreenwriter, you already think
when you're writing the story,you already think ah, it has to
happen in one of the places.
Déjà, quand tu es en traind'écrire l'histoire, tu penses
déjà à il faut que ça se passedans un des lieux.
Enfin, deux ou trois lieuxmaximum, c'est les restrictions

(19:14):
que tu te donnes.
Déjà, quand tu écris le script,où tu laisses, tu laisses ton
ton énergie créative aller etpuis tu verras.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Pour les précédents, oui, je me disais bon, je vais
écrire en fonction de ce que jesuis sûr d'avoir, etc.
Bon, forcément, il ya deslimites, ça n'empêche pas
quelques bonnes surprises, maispar contre.
Well, of course there are limits.
That doesn't prevent some goodsurprises.
But, on the other hand, for thenext one, which will be
released in 2026, for Inferno,as there was finally a scenario
version commission which held mevery close, finally, when we
put the product independentlyand without a lot of budget I

(19:41):
admit, in fact, I didn't evenask myself the question of
whether it would be possible ornot I said to myself listen,
let's throw ourselves into thefire.
And finally, finally, by chance, we were able to achieve 90% of
what was written After.
It's a police thriller, it'snot very complicated either, but
for once, we were able toreally realize everything that
was going through our heads,while indeed, in the previous

(20:05):
ones, because of the budget, themeans, etc.
We create according to what wehave, and it's not that it's not
good, but it changes the mood.
It changes the mood to be ableto do something, where we say to
ourselves this time let's tryto imagine what we want and we
make it possible, and luckily itwas.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
When it comes to the number of shooting days.
So you have a budget we willsay between 1000 and 5000 euros.
You wrote several feature films.
The last one you had a littlemore budget.
Let's say between 1000 and 5000euros.
You wrote several feature films.
The last one you had a littlemore budget.
How many days did you put in toshoot?

Speaker 2 (20:36):
For the last one.
Strangely it's one of myshortest shoots.
It only lasted 12 days, butit's because I wanted to inflate
an energy, really energivore.
I wanted in advance to plan ashoot in advance where we get up
very early in the morning, wego to bed very late in the
evening with 4-5 sequences toput in the box per day.
I really wanted that.
If we had wanted, we could havedone it in more than two days.

(20:56):
But there, really, it was adesire of mine to book it in 12
days and go to the bottom of thebox After.
For the previous ones, iris inparticular there, on the other
hand, it was 18 days spread overthree months.
So there you go.
It depends.
But there, on the other hand,as there was very, very, very
little budget, it came in lineof account.
But otherwise, generally, myshoots are between 10 and 19

(21:17):
days, but it's very rare whenit's over the 15th day.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
So it depends, it depends on the budget on the
place we're going to find tostay with everyone.
It depends on those things.
There is a film that was madein 18 days, spaced over three
months, and the last one was 12days in intensive, 12
consecutive days.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
It's that, finally, the one that's going to come out
, inferno, is more ambitious.
There are three times more sets, ten times more actors and,
finally, we beat the work in tentimes more time than the
previous one.
Well, after that it was stilldifferent.
Each scenario is different, butin any case, it's possible.
I think I found my rhythm ofwork and I think it's possible

(21:59):
to go on like pigs and go to theFranco.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
And so how many people do you have in your team
on the shoot?
Obviously, you have the actors,and then I suppose there are
several people who wear severalhats maybe.
So how many people are in thecrew?
And who is it?
Or is it because you also tellme that you are a editor?
Well, you are.
So who is present?

(22:23):
Who is it that must be present,and what are the things where
you say well, that's it, we'lldo it?

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Clearly it was gradual.
I think that for my first longthere was a make-up artist,
there was a sound designer, andthat was it the one who didn't
have much to do from a certainmoment to ensure other positions
, or if an actor wasn't shooting, he helped, but it was gradual.
For Iris, on the other hand,for lack of means there here he
had to get rid of a little.

(22:50):
I had to insure several caps,but here with great pleasure,
and there, on the other hand,for the latter we had two
assistants a set photographerfor the sound good, the camera
it's me who does it a makeupartist for certain bloody
effects planned.
So my friend, the producer ofthe project, who was there every
time and who ensured the goodcourse of things.

(23:10):
We were about five, six behindthe camera.
It's not huge compared to themiddle, but in any case it was
enough to allow us to continuein good condition.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
You tell me that you also do camera, so that means,
you are also chef-op on all yourshoots.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
in general, I may be wrong.
Of course there is a photodirector who does certainly
better than me, but it's a drug.
I have to do it.
In fact I really have to be inthe middle of the action, framed
, filmed, etc.
I have to be with the actors.
So it doesn't bother me.
And as I go along I enjoy it, Ilearn, and the same for the
editing.

(23:49):
For me it's really the personalrelationship to my work, to my
film.
I couldn't delegate thesepositions.
For me it's too important.
After that, there are some whocan't do otherwise.
But in any case, as far as I'mconcerned, no, no, I have to
ensure these positions, that'sfor sure.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
But I find it super interesting that you talk about
it because, well, I did a lot oftheater before and that's the
same thing.
There's often not enough budget, so we end up wearing a
thousand hats at once when weput on stage and all that.
But I realize that by making myfilms, I still have a lot of
trouble delegating what say tomyself OK, no, that's the role

(24:27):
of such and such, or that's therole of such and such.
There is still something at thecreative level that is
expressed by putting severalcaps at the same time, which is
actually pleasant, even if thereis a lot of stress.
But at the same time, there issomething that is expressed
creatively when you wear severalcaps, which is fascinating in a

(24:48):
way, I think there is a sidewhere we learn.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
it allows us to know what we want, what we don't want
later.
But after, as you say, it maybe a vicious circle, in the
sense that sometimes it willprevent us from delegating where
sometimes we would need it orwe would feel suffocated by the
help of certain people.
So it's true that at the sametime it's good, at the same time

(25:11):
it's a vicious circle, but atleast it makes the work of each
person personal, I think.
After that, with all thedefects and qualities, the
advantages and disadvantages Ijoin you on this point.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
A little more personal question on the budget.
We talked about the fact thatyou had between 1,000 and 5,000
euros in general for yourfeature films.
Where does this money come from?
Do you have a job on the sideand you put it?
Aside and in fact, it'seconomies that you put in.
Do you do crowdfunding?
Do you have a grandpa, agrandma, a lucky uncle who

(25:48):
supports you?
Where does this money come from, even if it's a small budget?

Speaker 2 (25:54):
For the first ones by chance.
Since I've been very young, Iknow that I had a pretty
important sum that was on theside that was destined to me
question of inheritance, etc.
So I knew that I was going touse this amount for that after.
Obviously, I may have made themistake of never investing your
personal money in the films andit may be a little bit true,

(26:14):
because here is the peculum hasquickly melted.
So here it is.
It took that here I save moneysuddenly by doing the freelance,
by working in the audiovisualleft to right to to build new
funds.
Then, as we make physicalprojections in the cinemas,
sometimes we recover on theentries, on the sale of posters,

(26:35):
etc.
Until a year and a half agowhere there, in addition to all
that on the platforms, itstarted to return.
So it allows you to invest inthe next ones.
But let's say that the more theyears go by, the less I try to
invest in personal money,because otherwise it's… Well,
after you're going to tell me ifI start to live on it very
slowly.
Finally, it's personal money.
But well, let's say it's goodto separate.

(26:57):
You have to try to separate ithas to stay.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
That in any case, I think.
And is it that sometimes youare a director or a screen
réalisateur ou scénariste surdes projets des autres, ou de
manière commerciale, ou tout ça?
Ou est-ce que tu es seulementréalisateur, scénariste, quand
c'est tes?

Speaker 2 (27:12):
propres projets Écoute.
C'est une bonne question parceque, justement, je viens de
passer la semaine passée atroce,parce que je ne sais pas
comment expliquer.
Je ne suis pas quelqu'un dedifficile, pas du tout, mais
j'ai souvent été convoité avecthe years to realize other
people's projects, and it wasoften crazy.
After that I may not have theguts to tell you the good or the

(27:34):
bad things, but every time Ifound myself in stuff.
But on the eighth time I stilldidn't understand.
I think I'm a little handicapped, because this week again, I got
involved in something, exceptthat after the eighth time I
said to myself no, no, it'sselfish, never mind, but never
again, never again.
And it's not because I thinkthere is a problem with artistic

(27:59):
vision or whatever.
I think it's not that, but Ithink I'm just unlucky.
There are often those whopropose to me or who call me.
It turns out that it is not tooserious every time.
So I know that you shouldn'tjudge only on these eight
experiences, but still it's alot.
So I prefer to devote myself tomy projects.
But I say that every year, andevery time I get involved in
completely crazy things.

(28:20):
So it would be time for me tolearn, because now it's starting
to be a lot, but why do you sayyes to this project?

Speaker 1 (28:28):
What makes you say yes?
Is it a desire for experience?
Is it a desire to supportsomeone else?
What makes you say yes?
I think, as I always want toshoot.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
When it's my feature films, it's at the pace of one
per year.
When the shooting of one isover, there's always this period
where I get In any case I getbored creatively.
There's always things to do,but until the next one, even if
I start writing, there you go,you have to wait, you can't
chain them, you can't go out toofast.
So there's always,unfortunately, this period where

(28:59):
I, where I give in to boredom,a bit like a camel who, after a
period of abstinence, willplunge back in directly,
although he knows it's crazy.
I don't know why I give in toboredom.
And well, after, sometimes,because you have to eat, well,
sometimes the proposedremuneration is interesting.

(29:21):
But the problem is that I founda dictum a few months ago and I
realize that it is quiteveridic I'm going to do for
money what we wouldn't do forfree.
And when we say that it solvesa lot of things.
But yeah, unfortunately I don'tknow, I let myself know.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Every time, let's talk about your team.
Finally, me, I am also part ofa group of international
filmmakers.
We see each other twice a monthon zoom.
Finally, it's pretty coolbecause we can support each
other, and then I also learnfrom people of international
filmmakers.
We see each other twice a monthon Zoom.
It's pretty cool because we cansupport each other and I also
learn from people who are moreexperienced than me and all that
and they all talk every time wemake a film.

(29:57):
Let's try to build a team withwhom we can work in the long
term, and it's really somethingI'm trying to do, even with my
short films of now.
There are people who come backand there are people with whom I
love to work and that I want totake with me in the different
adventures.
I noticed, obviously, lookingat your work, that there was

(30:19):
particularly an actress whocomes back, who always has a
fairly central role.
There are other actors who seemto come back.
Maybe there are other actorswho seem to come back.
Maybe there are other people inyour crew crew.
Well, how did you build thisteam that has been following you
for a long time?
And here they are, who join youin your vision.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
What no, but listen clearly, I share your opinion.
I think it's good after that's.
It takes time and it'snecessary that it works and it
has to match.
But I think it's interesting toAfter.
It takes time, it has to work,it has to match.
But I think it's interestingfor you, too, to build your own
team and try to move forwardwith it, provided that everyone
is leaving, of course.
But I think it's not easy.

(30:59):
I think it's just that you haveto create a healthy environment
to be able to create andespecially not get bored and
waste time After we can workwith the same people, welcome
new heads.
Of course, there's always a timewhen it will happen, but I
think we have to allow ourselvesto filter to be sure that each
person that we work in goodintelligence, because, mind you,

(31:20):
to surround yourself is veryimportant.
And so, yes, my partner, who isan actress, has held the main
role in my last five shows, sowe'll think about what we want.
Some will say, yes, but it'sbecause she's his wife, so she's
in it.
But I don't know about each one.
It's not a promise.
I tell him.
Maybe the character won't suithim, or it turns out that so far
it's worked.
We'll see for the rest and thenfor the other actors, of course

(31:51):
.
Yes, when something goes wellwith people, it's not easy.
But I say to myself, why go seeelsewhere?
Except when it's necessary,obviously.
But it's true that I try tokeep my hands.
And musically, by the way, Ifound a composer with whom it
matches very well.
We never met in real life,still not.
He is French, but it's likemarriage.

(32:11):
You have to be sure that whenyou get engaged with certain
people, that it works, but beingsurrounded is essential.
Anyway, it always happens tofall on one person or the other
who wants to unbalance the ship,but we learn, it happens.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
You told me that it's your wife who appears in many
of your films.
There are other characters, bythe way, who come back.
Sorry, it's not the characterswho come back, it's the actors
who come back to play othercharacters.
When you write a script, do youwrite it with them already in
mind, or do you write the scriptand then you say, ah well, such

(32:51):
a person would do well thisrole there, sometimes yes and no
.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Sometimes I write as I say, I move forward with my
troupe and then we say toourselves, ah, it would be funny
for you to do that.
And more generally, in fact, byluck, I consider myself very
lucky.
I trust them, they trust mevery much and at the end of the
day, they are very impatient toknow what I'm going to propose
to them.
So, luckily, I'm very honoredby that and it's really very

(33:16):
cool.
But it depends.
For example, for Inferno therewas the second main role for
Michel Angeli, who is a comedianfrom Brussels, but I wrote it
for him.
So for some scenarios it's truethat I think of a person with
whom I work in particular, andsometimes for some I let the
choice to test, to check theterrain, to see what could be

(33:37):
convenient, because sometimes wecan get caught, of course, but
sometimes I get them in the way.
Quite often, yes.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
So there are surely people who will listen to us,
who are there, who say, well,yeah, I want to make my film, no
matter if I have the subsidiesor not.
But how do I put my first teamin place?
How do you?
Well, obviously there's yourpartner.
That's another question.
It's more difficult for ourpartners to say no.
But the other people, how didyou meet them?
To our partners to say no butthe other people, how did you

(34:09):
meet them?
How did you convince them?
Was it a fun time betweenfriends?
Did you go and recruit people?
Did you just call and ask andyou say, well, if they say yes,
that's better, if they say no,that's fine.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
How did you put your team together the very first
time?
Well, after all, it's true thateveryone's journey is different
, but by luck, as I, luckily, atthe beginning, when I was
little, I did that with my toys.
Anyway, they didn't knowwhether to say yes or no, so no
choice for the toys.
Then it was my friends, andthen, from thread to thread, it
was the friends, then a personwho had seen my work via

(34:42):
Facebook.
In fact, it's this person whohad introduced me a little bit
into the middle of the actors,the actors, the silhouettes, etc
.
And for my part, in any case,it is from there that I was able
to start exploring the middlewith these people and to tell
myself that, in fact, there is away to find people.
In fact, by posting ads etc.
There is a way.
So there you go.

(35:03):
But after that it is clear thatI had business cards.
It is true that for someone whostarts directly, even if he
doesn't have business cards toshow, in any case, if his script
is good, if he believes in it,if he is in love with his film,
I think he can convince easily.
But I think you shouldn't beafraid to post ads.
We are lucky.

(35:23):
There are very interestingsites Synergy, some Facebook
groups so I think it's notimpossible nowadays really.
After that, it's clear thatit's always complicated to build
a volunteer team for the firsttime, but hey, I think we've all
done it.
We're all inclined to sometimesgive a chance to trust.
It really depends.

(35:44):
But I think if the person isreally in love with creation to
do these things, I think that itwill be felt and there are
people who will trust.
So I think it's not impossible.
Everyone has their journey butunfortunately for the shy, you
have to dare a little bit to getout of the shell and you won't

(36:05):
be dead, rest assured.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
What I hear when I listen to your story and, just
well, when I look at yourpersonality, I have the
impression that it's yourmindset that is much more.
Well, the glass is full ratherthan the glass is empty.
Well, you have a very positivemindset.
There is something very jovial,there is something very well.
Yes, we very jovial.

(36:29):
There is something very well.
Yes, we go.
And also often it is it that itcontaminates.
It contaminates others.
You see the energy of others.
People want to come on aproject where the person is
hyper positive.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
What is possible.
In any case, it is true that Iam not doing all this to get my
head around, even less to yellat people, it would be anything.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Anyway, yes, it is my headaround it.
Even less to yell at people, itwould be nonsense.
So, yeah, I don't know.
In any case, yes, it's clearthat I'm enthusiastic, that's
for sure.
It's maybe that which convinces, and luckily.
But there again I say it well,luckily, and I'm really very
happy about that and verygrateful.
It's true that, like most ofthe films we make have their

(37:01):
little adventures.
I know that when you have to goand look for actors with whom I
have not shot, luckily, theyare convinced and they make me
blindly confident and say yes,without having read anything.
I feel very lucky about that.
But I don't know, is it thecard of visit, the enthusiasm?
I don't know.
But in any case, it is clearthat normally on my shoots we

(37:24):
don't leave crying.
Everything goes well.
We make sure everything goeswell, because what's the point
of doing that?
Anyway, you have to have fundoing things seriously.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Can you tell us about one or two hard moments of
making a film without subsidies,with a reduced budget, one or
two challenges that you had toovercome, or one or two hard
moments?

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yes, no, no, but clearly it was the previous.
Previous it was in 2023,pandemonium.
I had shot a horror film thatworked well on YouTube and there
, on the other hand, theshooting was hell.
I'm not going to break thesugar and name people, not at
all but there was a technicalteam member and there, on the
other hand, it didn't go well.
I'm open to suggestions, ofcourse, etc.

(38:16):
But there, on the other hand,it was really, I think, a little
toxic person and harmful forthe good atmosphere of the set
and, yeah, it didn't go well.
Really, I felt like my film wasbeing stolen.
After all, it's not selfish,it's our film anyway.
But I think you just have tohave good faith, and there there
wasn't any, and thedisadvantage of not being in the

(38:41):
middle with the subsidies isthat sometimes there are people
who are in the team and, becausethey are friends, we forgive
everything, they allowthemselves everything and there
is a certain weakness thatsettles.
It really becomes the end ofthe knee and, if we dare to say
it, for the love of doingsomething good, quite simply it
becomes complicated and theperson can plant you there and

(39:03):
you have no plan B.
So that's a bit of a problem tobe independent.
It's sometimes linked to strongfriendships, but friendship
will a little garner the energyand the fowl of youth to create
all that so clearly.
The shooting of my horror filmPandemonium, that was really
it's the case to read it hell.
It talks about demonicpossession, so that was really.

(39:24):
Well, it's the case of readingit.
Hell, it speaks of demonicpossession.
So, yeah, it was really hell.
It was maybe the demon, by theway, who supervised the
construction.
But yeah, no, no, clearly, thatwas my worst experience.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
But you continued your collaboration.
So you expressed what was notgoing to happen, but you didn't
remove the color of thelaboratory.
You just, you just have atouchy-feely look.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Well, we finished the film, then we confronted each
other because they were alsodealing with sound
post-production, and that'swhere it exploded.
We confronted each other, weexpressed our points of view and
there clearly there was toomuch bad faith and we stayed
there.
But finally I tell myself thatit's not any worse because
really, as I said, there wasAgain I don't want to make this
person wear the hat, but I thinka weakness was in the team

(40:11):
because of this person, becausethe film afterwards it was no
longer there and the energy thatdeployed.
We said to ourselves but damnlike what Well surrounded a
person can, unfortunately,parasitize good people.
It's a shame, I mean, for thisperson.
I don't want to break the sugarand if he continues, that's

(40:31):
good, but it's true that it mademe learn that I preferred to be
well surrounded, to be surethat we want the same things
anyway, what could you haveprevented this incident?

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Do you think there were red flags before starting
the shoot or do you think thatwe here?

Speaker 2 (40:48):
it just happened once again, the friendship.
We forgive everything, we allowourselves everything and in
fact we must respect the peoplewith whom we work and of course,
there besides, in the team, itis friends, but in any case it
is friends, but we all agreed wepass a deal every time.
Listen, here there is with whomwe work.
Of course, by the way, in theteam they're friends, but in any
case they're friends, but weall agreed we're talking about a
deal every time.
Listen, there's no language.

(41:10):
We're not going through fourpaths.
We want to make the bestpossible film, even if we suffer
a little.
No one suffers, but the way wetalk, and there you go and at
and I say that not in apresumptuous way, like hey, I'm
the boss, not at all, becauseyou have to be open to
suggestions, you have to shareideas, etc.
But I think everyone must wantto make the same film and

(41:32):
unfortunately, under the pretextof friendship, sometimes we
forgive everything.
It's perhaps more humanlyreasonable, but if we want to
invest, as I do in some projects, it is true that unfortunately
you have to think about theproject.
And sometimes I say again, notthat you have to be bad, not at

(41:53):
all, and we are not.
But here I think we have to beclear from the beginning what,
as you say, set limits, speakand that's it, and do it before
especially.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
But me too.
I've been in this kind ofsituation before, where there's
something that's going on, we'refriends and all, and then
there's one person whounfortunately doesn't follow.
But as a project leader, it'salso part of our responsibility
to be sure that we lead theproject to the end.

(42:22):
And for the rest of the teamtoo, we must remain respectful,
that it remains of quality andall that, but clearly especially
in the case you say there, ifthere is a little black sheep in
the water, the worst is thatthe others too.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
We must not parasitize them by creating
tension.
We must not let them say, oh mygod, where did we fall?

Speaker 1 (42:41):
You also shared with me that on Inferno, you had a
strong intuition two weeksbefore the shoot.
And same thing you made adecision.
Here we're on the podcast ofLoud Whisper Takeover.
It's when the intuition is sostrong that all we have to do is
act on it.
What was this intuition twoweeks before shooting Inferno?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
The script had been written for many months it was
about eight or nine months so Iwas sure of what I was going to
do.
We prepared things in such away we casted the people we
needed for what they needed.
There was a character, yetcentral, and in fact it's
atrocious, because I had castthe person we had met.
She was super nice.
Well, fortunately she didn'ttake it badly, and two weeks

(43:27):
before the shoot, at the lastmeeting, I put everything in
question.
I said to myself fuck, in factthis character is useless.
If we remove him, nothingchanges and it also allows to
develop more the main character.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
So it's at the level of the scenario.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
In fact, you questioned the scenario, and so
there is an actor who has losthis role, but it was important,
it influenced the shooting, butin fact, yes, I think it was a
mistake.
If it's a character, we take itaway and that finally it doesn't
change much and that it allowsto feed the main character.
It's that finally, it wasuseless.
But it was terrible becausehaving the strong intuition to
be a person of the que is verygood, but then you have to tell

(44:07):
the person who reserved his daysin advance, two weeks in
advance, it still makes a good,big, crazy blow.
So it was atrocious.
To be honest with this person,to say listen, it's very weird,
but two weeks before we shoot, Ithink about it and
unfortunately, I think that yourcharacter will go to hell.
It's very weird, but two weeksbefore we shoot, I think about
it.
In fact, unfortunately, I thinkyour character will go to hell.
It's horrible, horrible.

(44:28):
But finally, when I see theresult, I say to myself but
fortunately.
Fortunately, because it wouldhave been what the fuck?
There would have been somethingthat would not have been and
that would have weakened thething, but that's it.
Humanely.
That's the problem of meetingpeople sympathize, they also
have projects, so they blocktheir day, etc.
And then no, there will benothing.

(44:49):
It's abominable, butunfortunately when the intuition
is too strong and there it wasit's a march on eggs sometimes.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Ah, yes, no, I doubt that that must be a very
delicate position to manage.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
I said to myself what am I doing?
Is it Too bad?
I don't say anything and do wetake the risk of turning and
cutting later, which is out ofthe question?
I said to myself, no, too bad.
It's also the learning to behonest and dare to say the
changes to people.
So it was horrible, but ittaught me to think well and be

(45:26):
sure of what I want to do and tohave the courage to talk about
it to people concerned.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
And then one or two moments that were absolutely
fabulous the fact that youworked without a subsidy, in
fact, and you said to yourselfI'm so happy without any
subsidies.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
And you said to yourself I'm so happy and well,
one or two moments, insanelypositive, to have made your
films.
Well, after, it's true thatwe're talking about results.
But for Iris the previous one,because it's a story I wanted to
do a very, very long time agoand well, anyway, I didn't think

(46:03):
I'd use it.
Well, pass through thecommission for that one.
But it's true that when Ifinished, anyway I didn't think
I would use it.
Well, pass through thecommission for this one.
But it's true that when Ifinished it I said to myself ah
damn, that's cool, because it'sbeen 10 years that I've been
thinking about this thing andnow it's done.
So I don't know, there wassomething very positive to say.

(46:27):
It's crazy, sometimes there arethings that keep you in grip
for 10 years and if we go to theend and we're struggling to
make them, it's still quitepositive and very cool.
I may be in the juice that's whyI say that but recently, a few
days ago, for Inferno, Ireceived the last song.
The mixing is over.
It's really a project that heldme in my heart and I wasn't
sleeping.
It was really a question oflife or death to make this film
and to tell myself that's it,it's done.
There was another year.

(46:49):
I barely dared to dream of itand it was done.
I just finished it, so maybethat's why, but for now it's
maybe the two very, verypositive things about all this.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
So what did you learn ?
What are the great lessons?
Life lessons, professionallessons of having made films
without subsidies that you mightnot have been able to learn if
you had them.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Oh well, the debauchery, I think, after.
Well, we always learn from ourmistakes, but it's a very good
question After.
It's true that the cinematicexperiments in the middle
obviously create links, and it'shuman too.
But it's true that here, as wehave very little means, the
accomplishment is such everytime that it reinforces the

(47:32):
links Humanly.
It's really quite touching andinteresting.
And that's it again.
I'm not complacent about what Ido, but I know that in 30 years
, if I'm lucky enough to bethere again, I will look at all
this with a good eye.
And it's true that, even ifsometimes it's good to have big
budgets, it's true that there isa little pride to say to
yourself damn, for not much.

(47:53):
We still managed to do that.
After that, I'm far from thecurrent standards and my films
are not perfect, but in any casethey're mine.
I take them.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
And I'm happy with what they are.
Do you sometimes get in aposition of doubt?
Have you had big doubts?
Are there films where you sayto yourself at first you're
enthusiastic, you say toyourself, we're going to do it,
we have a budget of 1,000, 2,000euros, and then you start to
doubt.
You say to yourself, but whatdid I get myself into?

(48:30):
Have there been moments?

Speaker 2 (48:32):
of doubt which ones?
And how did you overcome them?
It happened, it happened, and alot of times.
By the way, if I had had torelease them all, there would
have been more feature filmsthan that.
But I'm so extreme sometimes,and to the end, about what I
want my filmography to represent.
Sometimes, yes, we happen toshoot stuff for a year and it's
not cool.
But finally, with a step back,I think everyone agrees and

(48:53):
that's better.
But I tell myself, no, guys,we're not getting it out.
Poubelle, what, what.
Because there was reallysomething that didn't fit, but
for the reason you say, it wasfive years ago, I was maybe
younger.
I had the ass between twochairs.
I didn't know if I wanted to dodramas, thrillers.
I liked it a lot, but at thesame time, I was a little
asshole.
I liked action movies and allthat.

(49:14):
So not at all now.
So, yes, I think there was thisresearch.
And then one day I found it andI knew what I wanted to do.
But clearly, no, no, clearly,there were a lot of projects
that I started, or I had doubts.
I said to myself what are wedoing?
There is a thing that does notvibrate in me.
And well, there we went to theend.

(49:34):
Finally, I did not go out forthese reasons, because I did not
want that.
I did not want this film torepresent my doubts.
After there are some who willsay, yes, but will learn.
At least you show it and youwill learn.
But I'm quite selective aboutit.
But that's it.
It taught me.
It taught me to overcome doubtsetc.
And at least now I don't botherto do things just because it's

(49:56):
cool.
You really have to choose theright project that vibrates the
inside, that makes us shiver atnight when we think about it.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
I would like to bounce back on that, because I
find that there is a hugecourage to not release a film
for one reason or another,because we realize that the
world doesn't need to see it,because it may not be the story
we want to tell, because thequality may not be high enough
or whatever.
But there is also courage tosay to ourselves we filmed it,

(50:27):
but we will not release it, thepublic will not see it.
There is a huge courage.
Then you can speak, alsobecause it is a bit my research
and it is funny, because so Iset up a whatsapp group for
Belgium so that we can network.
And one of my goals, also that Istarted is to set up small
research workshops, because intheater we only do that, we only

(50:49):
do research, research, research, research and we get stuck and
that's it.
And before having a show.
But on the other hand, in themiddle of the film, because it
takes so much time and well, ifyou need equipment and all that,
it requires resources.
Well, in fact, no one takes thetime to research, to do just
research, filming for the fun offilming.

(51:11):
But we always do it with well,we need a result, and there I
put in place a little researchworkshop movement camera, action
film camera, fight scene camera, and it's super cool because I
think we need more space forresearch, clearly, clearly.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
And then I think that it would not disappoint some,
because there are so many whoare waiting for the right time
to make the film.
And there we go, into years offinally doing nothing, although
I think it costs money, time,money, obviously.
But it's true that I think wehave to turn, turn, turn, turn

(51:51):
anyway, and we can get stuck.
We have to get stuck because atleast it takes on what we want
to do later and in the worstcase, well after.
As you say, you have to bebrave, by the way.
Well you for what you say.
But the person is in any casemaster of getting it out or not,
or of making the thing moreconcrete or not.
So I think we have to do it.
And then there are people whowill assume to share their

(52:12):
failures, others not, like me.
I prefer to silence that, but Ithink we must not stop doing it
.
And, as you say, we have tolook, because there are
prodigies.
There are.
Il ne faut pas s'arrêter defaire Et, comme tu dis, il faut
chercher, parce qu'après il y ades prodiges, il y a des génies,
mais ce n'est pas en s'yessayant qu'une fois, ou alors
vraiment un gros coup de bol.
Mais non, il faut affiner, ilfaut affûter la lame, il faut

(52:37):
creuser, il faut creuser Et aubout d'un moment, on tombe sur
la bonne pierre qui nous faitvibrer on the stone.
That makes us vibrate.
But, as you say, you have tolook, you have to exercise, you
have to allow yourself that.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
What is your goal in five or ten years?
Do you manage to projectyourself in the next ten years?
Do you hope, do you aspire tohave big budgets, the commission
of cinema subsidies, or do yousay to yourself no, I'm going to
continue on this path as aself-producer, and it will

(53:08):
follow its path.
What is your future vision?

Speaker 2 (53:12):
A few years ago I tried to see in the long term,
but as nothing ever happens asplanned, I stopped.
So I try to live a little bitday by day, film after film,
because generally for somedirectors there is their private
life and their film, and me, onthe other hand, everything is
for them, everything is reallypermeable, it's really that's it
.
My life accompanies well, thefilms accompany my life.

(53:33):
So that's it.
I live the adventure of eachfilm after film, year after year
.
After that, it's true that,institutionally and vis-à-vis of
legal status, etc.
Yes, it would be good one dayto have funds from a commission
simply to be paid again.

(53:54):
I'm not saying that just forthe money, but to be paid so
that we annoy the freelancers alittle less about the number of
hours they have to do, so as notto be bothered by certain
organizations, for example.
So that's it.
For that it would be good.
But after, clearly, with thediscussion I had with a producer
recently and which comes backoften, I think that my style and

(54:16):
my projects are completely onthe verge of what is being done.
So I think I will continue asan independent and I think that
one day it will develop more andmore, but I'm waiting to see
how it will go.
But as long as I can still doit, that's fine.
But it would be good to securethe status a little.

(54:42):
There is a moment when you need, I think, stability, and it's
true that in this environment,whether it's independent or in
the middle, it's always a bitcomplicated.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
And so, to finish, the people who listen and who
want to get started in thisadventure to produce their own
films, especially their ownfeature films, with or without
subsidies, on a small budget,what are the three tips you give
them to succeed in thisadventure and to encourage them

(55:18):
to do so?

Speaker 2 (55:20):
I don't know if it's really tips listed like that,
but in any case, I think, do it.
Even if it's a little thing, doit.
It's not serious guys, there'sno Damocles sword above your
head.
If it's not good or not, do itreally.
And if it's really your thing,if you have the knack for that,
you're going to enjoy it andyou'll want to continue anyway.

(55:41):
And at worst, if the experiencedisgusts you, it can come back
to you later.
It can direct you to somethingelse, it can teach you things.
So I don't really have threeparticular tips, but anyway, do
things anyway all the time,never stop as long as it's
possible obviously, health,availability, time, etc.
And get around and, above all,especially not hesitate to.

(56:06):
So that's it.
That's three tips.
The third is to listen toyourself, listen to your
instinct, what you really like,what you really want to do, and
not compromise.
At the beginning we all want tocompromise.
We say to ourselves, yes, butat worst no, no, no, no.
Really you have to follow yourinner voice, clearly.
I think that's the mostimportant really.

(56:27):
In any case, thank you very much, brandon for sharing your
experiences.
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
We'll put a little trailer of Inferno, when this
trailer is ready, in the notesof the episode.
It works.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Thank you, it was really very nice.