February 17, 2025 • 53 mins
In part two of Transylvanian Tumbleweeds we explore the legacy of Dracula-themed attractions, particularly focusing on the Castle Dracula experience at Universal Studios. We discuss the concept of the "JayBang" introduced by Jay Stein and the challenges faced as audience tastes shifted, leading to innovative adaptations in modern amusement parks.
• Exploration of Universal Studios' background
• Delving into the concept of "JayBang"
• Nostalgia surrounding Castle Dracula
• The impact of cultural changes on horror representation
• Insights into Bill Tracy's influence in theme park design
• Upcoming Universal Horror Land discussions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Use the holy water.
This is one more.
He'll never sleep in again.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Darnation.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hello and welcome to the Lowdown on the Plus Up, a
podcast where we look ateveryone's favorite theme park
attractions, lands, textures andnovelties.
We talk in over about andthrough our week's topic and
then, with literally no concernfor practicality, safety or
economic viability, we come upwith ways to make them better.
My name is Kelly McCubbin,columnist for the theme park
(01:01):
website Boardwalk Times, andwith me, as always, is Peter
Overstreet University, professorof Animation and Film History
in Northern California.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
They were so proud of this they put that in the
newspaper ads.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yes, and one of the things that I read about this
show that they were doing isthat so when we talk about
Universal Studios and at thispoint it's starting to become
more of a fully fledged themepark yes, we have to talk about
Jay Stein.
Yes, please, let's talk aboutJay Stein.
(01:41):
So so Jay Stein is the at thispoint, the creative head of
Universal Studios.
He also seems pretty insane.
Yes, when you compare thestaffs of Universal Studios to
(02:04):
the staffs of Disneyland, youfind a really interesting
comparison.
The staffs of Disneyland,they're geniuses, brilliant
people, thoughtful,inspirational.
The staff of Universal Studiosis a mob.
Yeah, they are cutthroat.
They will fire you.
(02:25):
If you like, breathe funny.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And Jay Stein is right at, at this point, the top
of the ladder here.
Yeah, and one of the thingsthat you are all, if you work
for Jay Stein at this point, thething that you are trying to
achieve is what's known as aJ-bang.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Okay, okay, please explain what is a J-bang.
So a J-bang is— Folks, this isstill an appropriate show for
kids.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
It is absolutely.
It's not what you're thinking.
A J-bang was how Jay Steinwould describe an experience
where he has a quick, suddenemotional kind of rush and so
you, you know, turn the corneron the tram tour and Norman
Bates comes running at you.
(03:15):
If it actually thrills you,that's a Jay bang.
Okay, that's fair.
So Jay Stein is one nightwatching a TV show called the
Curse of Dracula Aha, which is amade-for-TV Dracula movie
starring Michael Norrie.
Oh, wow.
There's a point in the moviewhere Dracula turns to the
(03:39):
screen and growls like an animal, and something about this
scared Jay Stein, Whoa.
And he went to work the nextday and said we need a show that
has that moment in it.
Hmm, Okay.
So his entire theory about theCastle Dracula show is I want a
(04:02):
show that has a moment whereDracula growls at the audience
and it freaks them out.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
He did, he did, they did, yeah, they did do that.
I saw that show twice.
Yeah it was.
I got to sit in the front rowbecause I really wanted to get
pulled out of the audience andget turned into a little
Frankenstein.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Right, because part of this was it was still a
makeup show to an extent.
Yeah, and you had dinner withdo a little Frankenstein, Right,
because part of this was it wasstill a makeup show to an
extent.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yes, it was Yep, and you had dinner with Dracula,
yeah.
So you usually had like aboyfriend girlfriend pulled out
of the audience to become thebride and Frankenstein, right,
it would make up a kid to looklike Eddie Munster, basically,
yeah.
But I'm curious about thisJ-Bang thing because, well, who
isn't?
Because, well, who isn't?
Because we have to talk aboutthe Phantom of the Opera for a
(04:47):
minute.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, in the show.
You mean In the show.
It's not an animatronic Phantomof the Opera, it is a
theatretronic Phantom of theOpera.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Thank you.
Yes, it is a theatretronicPhantom of the Opera, but it was
voiced by someone who was veryspecial and who had just had a
very well-rated, if not insane,hollywood special.
I'm talking about the immortalPaul Lynde.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yes, it was for a brief period, voiced by Paul
Lynde.
Yes, they got rid of it after awhile, because people
recognized it too easily.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Two weeks, yeah, two weeks, you know, because as soon
as the Phantom I mean thePhantom looks like the Phantom
of the Opera, yeah, but likePaul Lynn, silence mortals.
I am the Phantom of the Opera,eric, and you're like, oh God,
because he had just done aHollywood special with Margaret
Hamilton.
(05:48):
Yeah, witchy poo from you knowHR, puffin stuff, yeah and Kiss.
The whole premise, I guess, isPaul Lynde is like I guess it's
because of his association withBewitched, oh yeah, because he
was Tabitha's uncle who was awitch, and so I guess it was
like that's Paul Lynn, I'm theQueenie Witch, and here's the
(06:10):
witchy poo, and then here's theWicked Witch of the West and
here's the kiss.
I mean, all that's missing isthe Osmonds, you know.
But I think it was because ofthat popularity of that
Halloween special, because itwas very highly rated on
television.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, which is funny because I've seen it and it's
terrible, it's awful.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
I think it was highly rated because it was like one
of the first times Kiss was onscreen.
Yeah, that's, probably true soeverybody's like we've got to
watch Kiss.
We have to Detroit Rock Cityyeah.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, they were very mysterious back then.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It was like people just didn't know what was going
on and we hadn't been subjectedyet to Kiss versus the Phantom
of the Parn.
So isn't that right, starman?
So there is audio of Paul Lyndethat is still available on the
internet.
You can actually hear it.
(07:02):
We may have actually put thatin the prologue of this program
here.
Yeah, but it's fascinating, butit is from the show.
Yeah, they had an animatronicwolfman.
It was this huge werewolf thatwould come out of a crypt.
Yeah, they had an extra tallmummy.
It was like this weird bodyextender of a mummy.
Yeah, they did a magic trick inwhich they took an audience
(07:23):
member and they put him on therack and they stretched him out,
and that was kind of cool.
And Dracula's there, yeah, butit's not really Dracula, dracula
, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
This is a recurring theme when I was looking into
different attractions thatrelated to Dracula.
One of the recurring themes isthat Dracula seems to take a
supporting role in things thathave his name on it.
Yeah, one of the recurringthemes is that Dracula seems to
take a supporting role in thingsthat have his name on it.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, which is really weird.
It is weird.
What do you do with Dracula tomake it a one-on-one experience?
I mean, is he going to?
It's like, how do you makeDracula an attraction where
everybody gets to experienceDracula?
You stand in line and you walkup.
He goes blah.
And he goes blah.
Bite your neck, blah.
Bite your neck, blah, I biteyour neck.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
You know, like how do you do that?
I was looking at thisattraction from it was like 1974
, a theme park called the LagoonPark or something.
It's in Salt Lake City, yes,and there was an attraction
called Dracula's Castle.
It's still there.
It was put in 1974.
It's still there.
It was put in 1974.
It's still there and I waswatching ride-throughs of it and
it's charming, it's supercharming.
(08:27):
It's an old-style dark ridewith a couple of neat effects.
It used to have one of thosecool rotating tunnels like they
used to do on the tram ride.
I guess they probably still doon the Universal tram ride.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, they keep decorating it.
It's either, you know, for usit was Steve Austin and Bigfoot
walking through it, but then itgot turned into the mummy at one
point.
Then it was an avalanche, orDante's Peak, or whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
But this was like an internal dark ride that had one
of those, but so I watched videoof it a couple of times.
Never saw Dracula once.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
He was outside, apparently.
I just found a picture of him.
I'm looking at the pictureright now.
He's outside he.
I just found a picture of him.
I'm looking at the pictureright now.
He's outside.
He's this weird wax figure ohweird, and he looks kind of like
a sneering Italian waiter.
Yeah, he's like ugh garlic, butthere he is, he is there.
The interior of this thing iscool.
It's got like a demon mouththat you're going through with
(09:22):
the spinning tunnel and writingin coffins.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
That's kind of cool.
I loved like outside thatattraction there was a sign that
just said it'll scare the yellout of you.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
I love that.
I know, oh, my gosh, I lovethat.
That is so funny.
So we're going to have to go toLagoon Park in Salt Lake City
to go check this out the LagoonAmusement Park.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, and this sent me down and I won't get into it
today, but it sent me down thiswhole rabbit hole of attractions
designed by this guy who I hadnever heard of before but his
name's Bill Tracy.
He started off at RinglingBrothers.
He designed floats and windowdisplays for the Macy's
Thanksgiving Day Parade and thenhe went into theme parks and
(10:10):
it's just dark ride after darkride after dark ride.
I mean he designed like 40, 50different dark rides, most of
them horror based.
Wow, at all sorts of parksaround the world.
The biggest name I saw, thebiggest park name I saw, was
Kennywood, so he designedsomething there.
Okay, otherwise there are justa lot of small regional parks,
but I was like this guy's reallyinteresting.
(10:31):
Anyway, that's for a later show.
Bill Tracy, ladies, Bill Tracy.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well, I'd definitely look into that.
Yeah, dracula's Castle wentthrough at Universal Studios.
Yes, Went through someinteresting stories.
One of the things I read aboutthe attraction there was a whole
article about it in FamousMonsters.
Yeah, that's actually really,really fun.
(10:57):
One of the things is that theyhad to try and tie it in with
modern audiences in the 80s.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, people were getting more.
This is like 79, 80.
79, 80, which is a weird timefor audiences in the 80s.
Yeah, this is like 79, 80.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
79, 80, which is a weird time for Monsterdom.
At this time, what happened wasUniversal was banking heavily
on the success of this newDracula with Frank Langella.
They thought this is going tobe our horror version of
Superman.
You will believe a man can flyas a bat, right.
So instead we're going to havethis disco sex scene in the
(11:29):
middle of it.
That just doesn't make any damnsense.
Yeah, and Sir Lawrence Olivieras this weird like rabbi
character.
That is not a very good Van.
Helsing yeah Because he was sosick.
Yeah, there's a stunt doublewho gets impaled in it.
Because they had to kill offVan Helsing, because he was just
so sick they couldn't finishthe film what a shame.
But for you Doctor who fans yeswho are watching this remake,
(11:54):
keep your eyes open for DoctorSeward's assistant sanitarium
worker.
It's none other than SylvesterMcCoy Really Yep.
He gets the iconic line in thefilm.
Well, who could possibly wantto own Carfax Abbey?
And in comes Sylvester McCoy.
Count Dracula, and in comesDracula.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And there he is Sylvester McCoy.
That's amazing.
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yep, so that's for Kelly.
And yeah it totally is.
We're both Doctor who nerds aswell, yeah and I'm a total
unabashed Seventh Doctor guy.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I love Sylvester McCoy.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, he's fun.
Yeah, he's fun.
But unfortunately, just beforeit was released, another film
was put out that starred thecomedian George Hamilton, called
Love at First Bite, yeah, whichtotally pokes holes in the
entire vampire genre.
(12:48):
It's pretty funny too, and it'sawesome.
Children of the night shut up.
It's really good.
But the problem is it made sogood of it.
It did such a good job ofparieting Dracula because it was
cashing in on the success ofMel Brooks' Young Frankenstein
yeah, like hey, brooks mademoney with this one.
(13:09):
We're going to do a Draculaversion of this, yeah, and they
did such a good job of poking ahole in everything that
everybody knew about Dracula.
It actually ruined Dracula, andI mean Dracula as a character.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
As, like you don't you very see very few Dracula
movies from that point on.
Yeah, for a long time.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, not till really Coppola.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And it really knocked out Dracula by Universal.
Yeah, they were furious thatthat had happened and because of
that nobody wanted.
People thought Dracula waspasse.
They're like, oh, that's kidstuff, what Count Chocula?
And so they tried to spruce upthe show by having a modern
movie monster come in, theIncredible Hulk Oy, in which he
(13:52):
would at some point I don't knowwhat spurs it, but at some
point, you know, out of nowhere,they just sprayed some local
bodybuilder guy from MuscleBeach or something like that to
come out in the trousers and andhe would go out and he would
grab a plant in the audience andrun off.
You know, like what are wedoing here?
Yeah, so they shut that down.
Eventually, the Dracula'sCastle shut down.
(14:14):
It did not last very long.
It only lasted for about threeor four years.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, it didn't last long and Jay Stein was never
happy with it.
He never got the effect that hewanted and, interestingly, he
was not a guy that wassentimental or held on to stuff.
If he didn't think it wasworking, he was just going to
kill it Perhaps literally, butfor some reason he was really
(14:41):
hooked on this idea and kepttrying to fix it over and over
and over again Real quick.
Before we get to the end ofthis attraction, I read this
really great story whereinitially they were trying to,
during the climax, have a flockof bats fly over the audience's
heads.
Yes, but someone came in andsaid you can't do that, it's
(15:05):
dangerous, they're bats.
Yes, but someone came in andsaid you can't do that, it's
dangerous, they're bats.
Yeah, so they hired a guy namedRay Berwick to train a flock of
little green parrots who theypainted black with a special dye
.
Oh God, after three months oftraining, it was time for the
(15:27):
final run-through.
At the proper moment, the cagedoor lifted, all the parrots
flew towards the stage, took aleft and flew out of the arena
and never came back, jeez.
So they started over and theytried to train pigeons instead.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
So one of the shows that I saw when I was younger, I
remember the pigeons, yeah, andthey, you know, they call, you
know there's the children of thenight and they turn the lights
off so you'd hear the flapping.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And so they like dim the lights down.
So you see these flappingthings and then, but you know,
you had to ignore the fact thatthere was bird poop everywhere.
You know things, but you had toignore the fact that there was
bird poop everywhere.
Like oh, it's on my shoulder.
I remember my grandfather usedto love wearing these very
elegant leather jackets and atone point we walked out of there
.
He goes we need a bird poop onme.
So that ruined my suede, and Ithink the animatronics were done
(16:22):
by.
I forget the name of thecompany it's AKG.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
AVG, excuse me.
Yes, and they're interesting.
So they were formed by animmigrant from Colombia.
Yes, his name is Alvaro Villa.
He'd been in the US as astudent since the 60s.
He worked for the space program.
He worked for Walt Disney for alittle while doing something in
(16:50):
animation.
I don't think he was ananimator, but he did something
technically.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Layouters.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And then he invented.
We say invented.
He came up with a new way to do, animatronics, which was his
thing called theatrotronics, andhis first two jobs to implement
these things.
It was basically roboticmovement, but using computers of
the time, sure, as opposed tousing audio signals like what
(17:18):
Disney was doing.
His first two jobs number onewas the Battle of Galactica.
His first two jobs number onewas the Battle of Galactica.
So all of those figures thatwhen you were captured by the
Cylons in the Galacticaexperience on the tram ride, all
of those were histheatrotronics.
And number two was CastleDracula.
They were great.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, they were great .
I really have fond memories ofthis thing and I wish that I
would have seen it when I wasolder.
Yeah, I was so young when I sawit.
I was just more like wow,monsters, I mean, it's Dracula,
you don't care.
Yeah, you know.
And I would probably look at itwith a much more critical eye
now and kind of go oh God.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, rough.
Yeah, rough Oof, but thepictures I've seen of it like
from Famous Monsters and there'snot a lot available, so I found
a reel that was put out by thatcompany, avg, that just showed
sort of a display of what theywere doing in the early 80s, so
it has a little bit of footageof this show.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Of the werewolf and some of the others.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, and then the phantom and it looks okay.
For that period it doesn't lookbad.
It also has reels of a bunch ofother stuff they were doing
like theatrotronic shows forMcDonald's.
There was a couple of regionalshows where they had clearly
ripped off the Tiki Room becausethey were just tropical birds,
(18:42):
yep, yep.
But yeah, you can see.
That's the most footage I'veseen from.
It was from that reel.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Okay, so I want to take another attraction that
does and I'm not going to saythat this is a massive theme
park attraction, yeah, but thisis an attraction that is loved
by many people on the East Coastand it does bear mentioning
because it does involve Dracula.
Okay, and it comes from thisworld of monster movies and
(19:08):
monster kiddom.
Yeah, it was started inConnecticut by a young boy who
loved to build the Aurora modelkits.
Yeah, Of.
Dracula, frankenstein and Wolf.
Me too, I used to still, I meanup until about 2011, I still
had my glow-in-the-dark werewolfstill, I mean for up until
about 2011,.
I still had my Glow in the DarkWerewolf.
Yes, I had that one too.
I love those.
They were so great and thoseare very collectible, by the way
(19:31):
.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Even the remakes that were put up by Polar Lights,
even those go for a lot of money, yeah.
But even unboxed and paintedones go well into $100 or more
for one of those.
Oh, that's awesome, they'regreat.
Yeah, but he wasn't satisfiedwith that and he came from a.
This kid came from a showbizfamily.
(19:52):
Yeah, his name is Cortland HullBoy.
That name sounds familiar.
It should seem familiar becausehe was the great nephew of film
actor Henry Hull.
Okay, aka the werewolf ofLondon.
Yeah, a film actor, henry Hull,aka the Werewolf of London.
Yeah, and also Josephine Hull,who played one of the two sweet
little old ladies in Arsenic andOld Lace.
(20:14):
Oh, and so he came from theshowbiz family and his father,
so he started building his ownmonsters.
Okay, so he built his ownFrankenstein.
Yeah, he made them out of clay.
And at first he was just usingthe calendar masks from famous
monsters.
Yeah, he had saved up andbought a couple and just put a
dummy, made the costume.
(20:34):
His mom would make the costumeand put it up, right, but then
people would come over and itwas like a Halloween thing.
Look at this little display Iput up of Frankenstein.
Yeah, this little display I putup of Frankenstein Dracula.
But then it grew and then itgrew and then he got older and
he started sculpting themonsters.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And then he started building sets around the
monsters and his dad built alittle what he called his hobby
house where he could house thesethings and build them in yeah,
and then people were coming fromall over Connecticut to come
and see this thing.
Yeah, and because of hisconnections in Hollywood, he
would go out to Hollywood andhobnob with all these people.
So he knew Vincent Price and hegot Vincent Price to record an
(21:13):
introduction to his attraction,which is called the Witch's
Dungeon.
Oh, and then he met June Foray,who became the voice of this
witch.
That became his main logo.
Yeah, but he also had a sectionon Dracula and it was like a
one-man show where you wouldwalk through this museum that
was built.
It would have the fly, Karras,the mummy, the mole people, the
(21:35):
whole thing, and he would havethese little tape recorders set
up and he would be above you ona sliding panel turning on
lights and turning off lights.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
He's rolling above you, operating everything.
So he was like a livinganimatronic above you.
That's awesome.
And he kept doing this into the90s.
Wow, and people.
Mark Hamill came.
I mean it was a thing.
Well, eventually it moved andnow it's at 103 East Main Street
in Plainsville, connecticut.
Okay, he got moved into aspecial location because he's
(22:11):
getting up there in age, yeah,and he still maintains it, but
he just can't be the guy, hecan't be the man behind the
curtain anymore.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, he can't be crawling around.
Yeah, he can't.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
But they're really great and a lot of the heads are
actually based off of theactual life casts from these
actors and the Dracula obviouslyfeatures a lot of the dialogue
from the original Dracula.
I am Dracula.
Yeah, lot of that footage thathe got initially came from a
(22:44):
record put out by electric lemonrecords, from an album called
Boris Karloff and his friends.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
And it was an LP you could buy through Famous
Monsters.
Yeah, and it was Boris Karloffbasically narrating little audio
clips from all the famousmovies.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
That you could listen to while you're reading your
Famous Monsters books.
Right, that was put out by VernLangdon, huh, and so, like Vern
has a lot of influence on theseattractions, yeah, including
another one, yeah, whichactually predates Castle Dracula
at Universal Studios by about ayear.
Okay, in Wildwood, new Jersey.
(23:24):
Uh-huh, castle Dracula, it's atNichols Midway Pier.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
It was established in 1977 by the Nichols family.
This family bought a pier onthe Jersey shore, yeah, and they
put a bunch of roller coastersand thrill rides on it and
eventually the roller coasterkind of ran down, but they built
the attraction and when youwould walk up to it it was this
(23:53):
massive castle.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And it was a walkthrough haunted attraction
with all these differentmonsters and Dracula would
appear out of nowhere on top ofthe mantelpiece and yell at you
get out of my castle, blah.
And the other part of theattraction was a ride in coffins
in a river of blood.
Oh my God, so dang cool.
(24:18):
Yeah, it is very, very much ayou know, boardwalk style
attraction.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
But the River of Blood was a later addition.
Yeah, the castle was builtunder the foundations of what
was the roller coaster that theyhad torn down.
But the dungeon boat ride iswhen you would float through and
you go in through this mouth ofa giant skull and this river of
blood and go past torturedskeletons and all and I went.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You had me at river of blood, yeah, I don't need to
see anything else, I just wantto ride a boat in a giant river
of blood.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Did they just dye the water or was it so dark?
You just they said it was blood.
They dyed the water red.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
There's pictures of people riding this thing and the
water is red.
It's like, oh dude, I'm in.
And most of the attraction werelike kind of like homemade
versions of various Disney andwax museum attractions.
Lots of torture scenes.
You know the rack, Sure, andyou know the, but they have like
(25:24):
a skeleton with a steeringwheel and all the usual stuff.
Yeah, but you know what.
It's so homegrown.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Family.
You know, family made andfamily owned.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
That it holds a special place in my heart.
I've never been to it.
I've only seen footage andphotographs from it.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
But man, I'd love to see it.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
So I assume it's not there anymore.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
No, sadly it burned.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
It burned down and they are talking about
potentially bringing it back.
They had a revival about fivemonths ago, yeah, where they
brought back some members of theNichols family and all these
fans who had remembered theplace.
They brought back some of theartifacts that survived the fire
and they did this cute littlereplica on an outdoor stage and
they did a tribute to it.
But the guy was like, wow, I'mreally touched.
(26:12):
We're really thinking aboutmaybe doing this again.
I'd love to do it.
There's just no money in it,because he's like I know the
perfect thing let's sell stockand everybody will own a piece
of Castle Drive.
Oh, I see, ah, okay, never mind, good for you, but yeah, the
fire occurred in January 16th2002.
Yeah, so it lasted from 1977 to2002.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
That's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yeah, it's a good run .
And 1977 to 2002.
That's pretty impressive.
Yeah, it's a good run, and tothis day it is legendary in New
Jersey.
I actually have a bumpersticker on my Prius of follow me
to Count Castle Dracula inWildwood, new Jersey, just
because it's this great pictureof Count Dracula pointing like
let's go this way, follow me,we're going this way.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
You know it's interesting because, in a lot of
ways, Follow me, we're goingthis way.
You know it's interestingbecause in a lot of ways so we
are about to see in Florida, anentire land in Universal's Epic
Universe theme park based aroundthe classic Universal horror
monsters, which is great.
I am so psyched about this,Dude.
(27:16):
They have the burning windmill.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yes, they had me there, right.
That's like saying we have ariver of blood, we have the
burning windmill, I'm in.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I'm in.
Have you heard about theDracula restaurant?
Yes, yeah, it's a Draculasteakhouse.
Yes, and they're actually goingto serve the steaks on steaks.
Yes, and the waitstaff, they'rethe revenants.
So it's basically a bunch ofRenfields giving you your food.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I am so up for this.
Yeah, you have.
I mean, I'm shaking right nowbecause I really want to go to
this thing.
I do too.
Like more than any no offenseto Disney like more than
anything else right now, likethis is hitting my monster nerd.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Like nobody's business?
Oh, totally, and everythingI've seen from it looks like it
is a very nice balance of veryclassic monsters with a slightly
modern sheen to them, andrecently they put out footage of
the animatronics.
Man, they're amazing.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
The Dracula one looks terrifying.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
It's like they actually made Dracula scary
again, right.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
It's like, ooh, made Dracula scary again, right.
It's like, ooh, which isdifficult?
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah, so that's what would you call that?
A J-bang.
That's a J-bang right there youfinally get the J-bang snarling
like an animal Dracula.
But for those who are listening, if you go back some of our
episodes, there was an episodethat we did not long after a
road trip that Kelly and I tooktogether, in which we talked
(28:42):
about Bob Gurr.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, that is, by the way, by far our most listened
to episode, by far.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
That's cool.
Yeah, that's cool as opposed toGolden Horseshoe.
So if you haven't listened toour Golden Horseshoe review,
that's actually a good episode,folks.
We put a lot of work into thatone.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Why do you guys hate the Golden Horseshoe?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I did a balloon animal for that episode.
You know how hard it is to dothose things, especially on
audio.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, on audio.
That's really hard to do.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
So anyway, when we went on that road trip we got to
meet Bob at Garner HoltProductions.
We got to hobnob with all thesepeople.
Yeah, it was really really cool, nice folks.
And on the way in, I don't knowif this is where they produced
them, but I suspect.
And if someone's from Garner Iknow you're under NDA you
(29:34):
probably can't tell us.
Yeah, if someone's from Garner,I know you're under NDA you
probably can't tell us.
But I swear I saw one of thesemonster animatronics off in the
distance, off in the warehouse,under a big piece of plastic.
Yeah, they had obviouslyproduced a creature from the
Black Lagoon and a Frankensteinanimatronic for other projects,
or at least for Garner'samusement.
(29:55):
Yeah, because Garner likes tocollect stuff.
Yeah, because Garner likes tocollect stuff, you know.
But I have a sneaking suspicion.
We actually got a tiny littlepeek at these things because I
looked at one and I went.
I think that's a werewolf andif it is, it's cool.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, I mean, it would certainly make sense if
you're producing high-qualityanimatronics kind of anywhere in
the world.
But animatronics kind ofanywhere in the world, but
especially in the US.
Garner's the first person youthink of, Absolutely, so I think
that's probably where they camefrom.
We may have been in the roomwith them already.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Yeah, and it's like, if so, yay, yeah, but I'm really
looking forward to thisUniversal Monsters, epic
Universe.
Maybe at some point in ourfuture we'll finagle.
You know, for those who arelistening, for those of you at
Universal who understand that atthe executive level, who really
(30:44):
want to have a good marketingpoint, we have two sad
middle-aged white guys fromCalifornia who have reintroduced
you to the term J-bang, whohave reintroduced you to the
term J-Bang.
By the way, if you visit ourZazzle site along with our,
(31:05):
there's Snow on the Manor hornbut there's Coke on Main Street
t-shirts and magnificationshirts.
We are going to have theuniversal J-Bang t-shirts
available for you in blood redor Dracula black, but anyhow,
Just a picture of Michael Norriegrowling on it.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
J-bang the Lowdown on the Plus Up is a BoardWalkTimes
podcast.
At BoardWalkTimesnet you'llfind some of the most
well-considered and insightfulwriting about the Walt Disney
Company Disney history and theuniverse of theme parks
available anywhere.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Come join us at BoardWalkTimesnet.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
You guys think I'm kidding.
I am going to make theset-shirts.
I have a lot of free time on myhands these days.
It's going to happen.
You guys think I'm joking.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And we will take the revenue from these shirts and go
directly to Epic Universe.
We will not pass go.
We will not collect $200.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Well, we'll be lucky if we collect $100.
But you know, I mean I'll takeit.
Yeah, but for those ofexecutives, we'd love to see it.
But we are really excited.
I know I'm really excited.
I know Kelly is, but I thinkfor our listeners if you have a
chance, check out some of thefootage of this thing, what
they've got planned out theyreally seem to have it down.
I'm really excited.
Yeah, um, we have a friend ofthe show.
(32:58):
Uh, his name is don carson.
He's a former disney imagineer.
Yeah, uh, I got to meet withhim in december and we talked a
little bit about it and even hewas just like this thing is is
insanely cool yeah it looked forwhat I see of it.
It looks amazing.
It looks like they may betopping everything that Disney
is doing right now.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
And they found a way to reach back into their catalog
, reach back into theirproperties and revitalize
something.
Revitalize something thatpeople have a lot of love and a
lot of nostalgia for.
It's so smart.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
So for a nod also out to my students, I teach a class
about art, experiential design,which is, you know, it's
designing theme parks.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, it's a first grade class, so there's six year
olds.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
No, no, no, no, no.
It's a college course and it'sbasically it's.
You know, it's a concept designclass and the project that we
do throughout the entiresemester is designing a theme
park and the different elementsto it, and it's a way to teach
illustration in a fun, inclusiveway.
Right Gets people to learn howto work as a team.
I had one student, and I'll sayher name, laura.
(34:16):
Laura Rogers didn't know quitewhat she wanted to do with her
career and I kind of like pushedher and said hey, you know what
?
You should probably try thisproject that we're going to do.
We're going to do a design atheme park, so it's going to be
six weeks.
We're going to do, we're goingto do a design a theme park.
So it's going to be six weeks.
We're going to do this themepark and you might give it a try
because it incorporates all thethings that you're into.
You like horror.
You do all these great littlebits of horror illustration.
You like designing environments.
You like theater.
(34:37):
Let's try it.
Well, the assignment wasrandomly selected.
We literally put themes into ahat.
Yeah, lo and behold, out comesUniversal Monsters, uh-huh.
And then what I would do ishave the students randomly
select the attraction they weregoing to design.
Yeah, now, sometimes it was aroller coaster, sometimes it was
(34:57):
a drinking fountain.
Laura got a food court and shealso was matched up with a
specific Universal Monster.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
So somebody got the Bride of Frankenstein, somebody
got the Mole People, somebodygot Creature from the Black
Lagoon.
Laura got the Mummy, okay, andshe did these designs for these
mastaba-like food pavilions,yeah.
So one was the Pharaoh'schurros and instead of the crook
(35:28):
and the flail it was a pair ofchurros in this mummy casket's
hands and she built it like itwas a big dome, so it was the
skies of the stars over Egypt,yeah, and it was like half in
and half out, kind of like howwhen you walk in and out of Star
Traders at Disneyland, so it'slike you're air conditioned but
there's lots of big doors so youget a lot of sunlight, yeah,
(35:48):
right, and there's a bigfountain and there's a sphinxes
everywhere and there's places tosit on these stone tables.
She designed this whole thingand I worked really hard through
all my connections to get JasonSorrell, who at the time was
the creative director ofentertainment at Universal
Studios, and I asked him couldyou take some moment to meet
with us and, you know, give acritique?
(36:12):
And he said sure, but when hefound out what we were working
on, he said I can't do that.
I said why he goes?
Well, I'm kind of under NDA onsomething and I went.
Really you know like suddenlymy interest was piqued.
He goes and I can't sayanything more.
You know, universal is verynasty about their NDAs and they
(36:36):
really are Again, remember mob.
Yes.
So he didn't see it until theyfinally announced Epic Universe.
And then he said, yeah, I cantake a quick look.
Yeah, and he looked at it andhe actually sent a marvelous
comment, which is this looksbetter than some of the stuff
(36:57):
we've been seeing.
And Laura took some of thosedesigns and she actually got
some interviews at theme parkfirms and I think she actually
got some contract work out ofthat.
So I'm very proud of her fortackling this.
So we have now reached a pointwhere the sun is about to rise
over the children of the damned.
(37:17):
We must reach our final part ofour show, which is the plus-up.
So we didn't do a plus-upduring our last show with our
special guest.
He was the plus up, he was theplus up, so I don't know who
goes next.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I don't know.
Do you have something in mind?
Speaker 3 (37:36):
It's going to be a river of blood.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
It's tough because we've picked a subject matter
instead of an attraction or aland or something.
So it's like well, what does aplus-up mean?
Well, it can kind of meananything you want it to mean.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Absolutely.
I think I know what I'd like totry and do with Dracula, with
an attraction of some sort, isto go back to our interactive
episode a little bit, yes, andto set up a weekend cruise
aboard a schooner yeah, but werepaint it and redecorate it so
(38:13):
that way, yes, you're on theschooner, but for you know, it's
an overnight trip where you'reaboard the Demeter, yeah, and
it's a murder mystery slashescape room on a ship and
Dracula is aboard with it.
So it's a murder mystery slashescape room on a ship and
Dracula is aboard with it.
So it's like a haunted housemixed with an escape room on
board an actual ship out in thewater.
(38:35):
Yeah, yeah, that sounds safe.
That should work out.
But, as we say in the beginningof our program, we have no
problems with safety or budgetor anything like that.
But that's something I wouldlove to see, because Kelly and I
saw the Last Voyage of theDemeter and it's not a great
film, it's not bad, it was fun.
Yeah, it's fun, it was fun, andthat's one of my favorite parts
(38:58):
of the book actually is thisnotion of being stuck on a ship
with the Prince of Darkness.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Like ooh, this is cool darkness.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, oh, this is cool.
So if you were on that, if youwere doing like a murder mystery
or something like that, thatwas that was based on that
assumedly all of the the patrons, yeah would have to be
eliminated one by one.
Oh, yeah because there'sthere's an inevitableness.
It's like it's like doing a uhuh cthulhu story, like
eventually you're all gonna die.
There's no way around thattitanic yeah, yeah, exactly so
(39:27):
what would they do?
So say you get eliminated early,like Dracula gets to you early.
What do you do?
Do you become a rat?
Like what happens.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
No, you become a revenant.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Oh, you become a revenant.
Okay, you become a revenant.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
And then you have other things, that you have cops
and robbers, and you know ifyou're a cop and you suddenly go
bad.
Oh, this would be great.
Like you know, you have to havea buy-in, but at the same time,
it still could be really,really fun.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So that's my plus-up.
How about you?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
I've been thinking about so you hear this from
Disney a lot that everythingstarts at story and more and
more I'm thinking this is a badidea.
So all of my favorites I'mgoing to talk about a dark ride
here All of my favorite darkrides don't tell a story
(40:26):
particularly well that greatoriginal scary Snow White ride
or Peter Pan, or you know whatare the?
The cave train in Santa Cruz,oh yeah, the Spelunker's Cave at
Six Flags Over Texas.
They don't tell storiesparticularly well, not the fairy
(40:49):
tales, right.
What they do is they reflect amood really well, mm-hmm, and
they will sort of energize thepart of your brain that saw a
story previously.
Sure, and say, hey, you rememberthis bit, remember this bit,
but they don't actually tell astory previously.
Sure, and say, hey, youremember this bit, remember this
bit, but they don't actuallytell a story particularly well.
(41:10):
And I think this may be a wholeother conversation, but I think
this may be a mistake thattheme parks are making right now
as they're trying to tellreally coherent stories in a
single attraction.
But I agree, what I'm gettingat is that what I Joe Rohde,
would have our heads for sayingthat.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
I know, is that what I, joe Rohde, would have our
heads for saying that?
Speaker 2 (41:26):
He would, and I love the guy.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
I do too, but we can hear him coming yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Rattle, rattle, rattle, rattle.
But what I would like to do isto do a moody, greatest hits
dark ride through the HammerDracula film.
Hell, yeah, I'm in it.
So we just, you know, lots ofChristopher Lee, lots of Peter
Cushing, animatronics, you know,and you go all the way through.
(41:52):
So you know, you start athorror of Dracula.
Maybe you get that final scenewith the candelabra and the
curtains coming down.
Yeah, and you know, you doBrides of Dracula, you do
Dracula, prince of Darkness.
You're just slipping through.
You get, you know scars andtaste the blood of Dracula.
(42:13):
You.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
You drink the filth, you drink the filth.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I want to be in a dark ride where someone yells
you drink the filth at me.
This is what I want in my life.
And, of course, you end upspiraling out to Dracula, ad 72.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
And Satanic Rites of Dracula and.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Satanic Rites of Dracula, where the band
Stoneground plays a number foryou at the end and everyone's
wearing white satin suits andstuff.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
And.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Christopher Lee's refusing to speak.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I don't want to be a part of this film One.
You know, I want to plus upyour plus up.
All right, you go for it.
Yeah, okay, so we had anotherepisode where we talked about
shooting galleries.
Yes, but we mostly focused onthe firearms aspect we didn't
(43:14):
really talk about like BuzzLightyear and the Toy Story, you
know light-sensitive laserthing.
Wouldn't it be cool as a plusupif it was a reverse shooting
gallery, meaning the creaturesthat—so you go through your ride
.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
In a lot of those films Dracula actually
mind-controls bats.
I think it's in Dracula, princeof Darkness, where he's
actually controlling a bat toremove a crucifix from a young
busty maiden's neck and we seeher wonderful décolletage
beneath this crucifix as thisridiculous rubber bat comes in
(43:58):
and yanks it off.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
It's so ridiculous it might as well be a Jean Rollin
film.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
So yeah, but wouldn't it be cool if you had other
creatures of the night and otherthings that actually, whenever
you have the red eyes staring atyou, they're actually shooting
beams at you?
Okay, and you have like areader, like you're riding on
the cart and the only way toavoid getting your blood sucked
(44:28):
by the gaze of Dracula.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
He's doing all sorts of air quotes right now.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
I totally An eyeball pointy things.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, pointy, eyeball fingers.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
But the gaze of Dracula.
You get electronic blockingcrucifix, so you're trying to
block the laser beams with thecrucifix.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So you got people waving their hands around
furiously with this crucifix, soyou're trying to block the
laser beams with the crucifix,so you got people waving their
hands around furiously with thiscrucifix.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
But you get to points where it's like here I am.
I'm Dracula.
Hold up the crucifix.
You have to have faith to makeit work.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
What's the repercussions if you don't do it
fast enough?
Speaker 3 (45:04):
You lose points.
Like I said, it's like BuzzLightyear, but instead of
gaining points by finding thatone little hole in the wall
where you can shoot and get10,000 points, you're trying not
to get zapped.
Yeah, so you're using it toblock the laser beams going.
No, no, but if you don't do it,you lose points from your car.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Which is you losing blood?
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Yeah, so it's you losing blood.
So you actually have theselittle digital meters that have
bubbling blood and it goes alittle bit further and it goes
down and you have Van Helsing.
Look out, marty, it's gettingtoo low.
So Van Helsing is played byChristopher Lloyd.
Yeah, I'd take it.
(45:47):
Biff Tannen is Renfield.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
I don't make the things, I just think them up.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
If your points get low enough, you become a
revenant.
So when you go out to see thepicture that inevitably is at
the end of every ride, thepicture of you in the ride
there's just flies.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
The blood is the life .
So before we sign off, onceagain, our tribute is to David
Skoll and, if you are interestedin learning more, we talked a
little bit about the lore andthe history of Dracula.
I would highly recommend goingto Amazon or your favorite
(46:30):
bookseller and purchase copiesof some of his books, and here's
some that I would like torecommend.
One is Something in the Blood,the untold story of Bram Stoker,
the man who wrote Dracula.
Yeah, and that's a greatbiography of Brahm, written by
David Scull.
He also wrote a book called theMonster Show, which is an
overview of horror and itseffect on Americana.
(46:52):
Uh-huh Hollywood Gothic, whichis a great tale of how the 1931
movie Dracula was made and allof the perils and pitfalls
thereof.
And then V is for Vampire,which is a guide to everything
undead.
It's more encyclopedic and itcovers everything from London
(47:14):
After Midnight to Dracula vsFrankenstein.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
The bad 1971 film.
Yeah, he has a book onHalloween.
I mean, he is very prolific.
And lastly, dark Carnival,which is a biography of
filmmaker Todd Browning.
It was his last project he wastrying to finish.
Yeah, this coffee table bookabout the great director and his
insane life.
It is quite a read.
(47:38):
So I know he has some familymembers who still benefit from
the sale of his books.
So if you have a chance and ifyou have an interest in monster
movies, I cannot recommend thesebooks enough.
And so that's my little lovenote to David.
So thank you for all theinspiration.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
All right.
So before we sign off, what'syour favorite Dracula film
Number one, the number oneDracula.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
Good heavens, you're putting me in a corner here.
Yeah, I actually think myfavorite dracula film is the bbc
version that was done.
It was a mini series, yeah, andit was done roughly about the
same time that doctor who's TomBaker's Doctor who was being
(48:26):
produced, because a lot of thesame sound cues and sound
effects are being used in it.
But it stars Frank Finlay as DrAbraham Van Helsing, yeah, and
Louis Jourdan as Dracula, yeah,and it's actually for a
made-for-TV movie.
It's actually quite terrifying.
It scared the heck out of mewhen I was a kid.
(48:49):
Yeah, it's great, and, don'tget me wrong, I love the
Christopher Lee films, but ifyou want a Dracula movie that
really got under my skin, that'sthe one.
Not because it's close to thebook, not because of the special
effects.
That's the one that actuallyreally scared me.
Yeah, and I love Dracula films.
(49:09):
I mean, I'll even watch DraculaMeets Billy the Kid.
Sure, you know.
So, yeah, how about you?
Speaker 2 (49:17):
If we count the Nosferatu films I would say
maybe the Herzog Nosferatu.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
If we don't count the Nosferatu films, oof, it's kind
of hard to top Kinski's mouthbreathing.
Yeah, I've got to tell you.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
If we don't count those, I might go with Guy
Maddin's Dracula Pages from aVirgin's Diary oh, that's cool
which is one of the few filmsthat actually does have Quincy
Morris doing the deed, and it'sjust so wackadoodle, weird and
(49:58):
fascinating.
I just love it.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
I think my number two is actually Andy Warhol's
Dracula.
Just to hear Udo Kears shoutout the blood of these whores is
killing me.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
By the way, oh, one thing, that Dracula pages from A
Virgin's Diary has that noother film I've ever seen?
No other Dracula film I've everseen has and this is directly
from the book.
Dracula actually does bleedmoney from it, because in the
book Dracula gets cut and moneycomes out.
I forgot about that.
(50:31):
You're right, and it's a racist, anti-immigrant thing that
Stoker did.
Oh yeah, big time.
And he makes a point to saythat, oh, there's British pounds
in there now, but it's the onlyfilm that actually has that in
it.
Wow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
That's insane.
Yeah, yeah, not a lot of moviesactually have like the hairy
palms or other stuff like that.
No, these are all things thatwhen we open up our Christopher
Lee tribute Dark Ride yeah, withflailing crosses and laser beam
zapping, that's going to be themerchandise.
Yeah, with flailing crosses andlaser beam zapping, that's
going to be the merchandise.
Yeah, we'll have our Draculastomach money dispenser.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
We'll have our hairy palm, our.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Dracula stomach press penny machine.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Yeah, press penny machine and then, hairy palmed,
like you know, mittens that youcan buy.
You know the obvious Draculateeth, the cheapy plastic,
nicolas Cage, dracula teeth, youknow, all right.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
This is a good place to stop.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
We are totally digging ourselves into a shallow
grave here folks.
So on that note, I'm PeterOverstreet.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
And I'm Kelly McCuffin and you've been
listening to the Lowdown on thePlus.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of the Lowdown on the
(52:06):
Plus Up.
If you have, please tell yourfriends where you found us, and
if you haven't, we can pretendthis never happened and need not
speak of it again.
For a lot more thoughts ontheme parks and related stuff,
check out my writing forBoardWalkTimes at
BoardWalkTimesnet.
Feel free to reach out to Peteand I on our Lowdown on the Plus
Up Facebook group or send us amessage directly at comments at
(52:28):
lowdown-plus-upcom.
We really want to hear abouthow you'd plus these attractions
up and read some of your ideason the show.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
Our theme music is Goblin Tinker Soldier Spy by
Kevin MacLeod at incompetechcom.
We'll have a new episode outreal soon.
Why?
Because we like you.
You fools you.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
Pathetic spineless fools you drink, then you drink
it.
You drink the filth, no.
Use the holy water.
This is one more.
He'll never sleep in again.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Darnation.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hello and welcome to the Lowdown on the Plus Up, a
podcast where we look ateveryone's favorite theme park
attractions, lands, textures andnovelties.
We talk in over about andthrough our week's topic and
then, with literally no concernfor practicality, safety or
economic viability, we come upwith ways to make them better.
My name is Kelly McCubbin,columnist for the theme park
(01:01):
website Boardwalk Times, andwith me, as always, is Peter
Overstreet University, professorof Animation and Film History
in Northern California.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
They were so proud of this they put that in the
newspaper ads.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yes, and one of the things that I read about this
show that they were doing isthat so when we talk about
Universal Studios and at thispoint it's starting to become
more of a fully fledged themepark yes, we have to talk about
Jay Stein.
Yes, please, let's talk aboutJay Stein.
(01:41):
So so Jay Stein is the at thispoint, the creative head of
Universal Studios.
He also seems pretty insane.
Yes, when you compare thestaffs of Universal Studios to
(02:04):
the staffs of Disneyland, youfind a really interesting
comparison.
The staffs of Disneyland,they're geniuses, brilliant
people, thoughtful,inspirational.
The staff of Universal Studiosis a mob.
Yeah, they are cutthroat.
They will fire you.
(02:25):
If you like, breathe funny.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And Jay Stein is right at, at this point, the top
of the ladder here.
Yeah, and one of the thingsthat you are all, if you work
for Jay Stein at this point, thething that you are trying to
achieve is what's known as aJ-bang.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Okay, okay, please explain what is a J-bang.
So a J-bang is— Folks, this isstill an appropriate show for
kids.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
It is absolutely.
It's not what you're thinking.
A J-bang was how Jay Steinwould describe an experience
where he has a quick, suddenemotional kind of rush and so
you, you know, turn the corneron the tram tour and Norman
Bates comes running at you.
(03:15):
If it actually thrills you,that's a Jay bang.
Okay, that's fair.
So Jay Stein is one nightwatching a TV show called the
Curse of Dracula Aha, which is amade-for-TV Dracula movie
starring Michael Norrie.
Oh, wow.
There's a point in the moviewhere Dracula turns to the
(03:39):
screen and growls like an animal, and something about this
scared Jay Stein, Whoa.
And he went to work the nextday and said we need a show that
has that moment in it.
Hmm, Okay.
So his entire theory about theCastle Dracula show is I want a
(04:02):
show that has a moment whereDracula growls at the audience
and it freaks them out.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
He did, he did, they did, yeah, they did do that.
I saw that show twice.
Yeah it was.
I got to sit in the front rowbecause I really wanted to get
pulled out of the audience andget turned into a little
Frankenstein.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Right, because part of this was it was still a
makeup show to an extent.
Yeah, and you had dinner withdo a little Frankenstein, Right,
because part of this was it wasstill a makeup show to an
extent.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yes, it was Yep, and you had dinner with Dracula,
yeah.
So you usually had like aboyfriend girlfriend pulled out
of the audience to become thebride and Frankenstein, right,
it would make up a kid to looklike Eddie Munster, basically,
yeah.
But I'm curious about thisJ-Bang thing because, well, who
isn't?
Because, well, who isn't?
Because we have to talk aboutthe Phantom of the Opera for a
(04:47):
minute.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, in the show.
You mean In the show.
It's not an animatronic Phantomof the Opera, it is a
theatretronic Phantom of theOpera.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Thank you.
Yes, it is a theatretronicPhantom of the Opera, but it was
voiced by someone who was veryspecial and who had just had a
very well-rated, if not insane,hollywood special.
I'm talking about the immortalPaul Lynde.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yes, it was for a brief period, voiced by Paul
Lynde.
Yes, they got rid of it after awhile, because people
recognized it too easily.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Two weeks, yeah, two weeks, you know, because as soon
as the Phantom I mean thePhantom looks like the Phantom
of the Opera, yeah, but likePaul Lynn, silence mortals.
I am the Phantom of the Opera,eric, and you're like, oh God,
because he had just done aHollywood special with Margaret
Hamilton.
(05:48):
Yeah, witchy poo from you knowHR, puffin stuff, yeah and Kiss.
The whole premise, I guess, isPaul Lynde is like I guess it's
because of his association withBewitched, oh yeah, because he
was Tabitha's uncle who was awitch, and so I guess it was
like that's Paul Lynn, I'm theQueenie Witch, and here's the
(06:10):
witchy poo, and then here's theWicked Witch of the West and
here's the kiss.
I mean, all that's missing isthe Osmonds, you know.
But I think it was because ofthat popularity of that
Halloween special, because itwas very highly rated on
television.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, which is funny because I've seen it and it's
terrible, it's awful.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
I think it was highly rated because it was like one
of the first times Kiss was onscreen.
Yeah, that's, probably true soeverybody's like we've got to
watch Kiss.
We have to Detroit Rock Cityyeah.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, they were very mysterious back then.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It was like people just didn't know what was going
on and we hadn't been subjectedyet to Kiss versus the Phantom
of the Parn.
So isn't that right, starman?
So there is audio of Paul Lyndethat is still available on the
internet.
You can actually hear it.
(07:02):
We may have actually put thatin the prologue of this program
here.
Yeah, but it's fascinating, butit is from the show.
Yeah, they had an animatronicwolfman.
It was this huge werewolf thatwould come out of a crypt.
Yeah, they had an extra tallmummy.
It was like this weird bodyextender of a mummy.
Yeah, they did a magic trick inwhich they took an audience
(07:23):
member and they put him on therack and they stretched him out,
and that was kind of cool.
And Dracula's there, yeah, butit's not really Dracula, dracula
, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
This is a recurring theme when I was looking into
different attractions thatrelated to Dracula.
One of the recurring themes isthat Dracula seems to take a
supporting role in things thathave his name on it.
Yeah, one of the recurringthemes is that Dracula seems to
take a supporting role in thingsthat have his name on it.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, which is really weird.
It is weird.
What do you do with Dracula tomake it a one-on-one experience?
I mean, is he going to?
It's like, how do you makeDracula an attraction where
everybody gets to experienceDracula?
You stand in line and you walkup.
He goes blah.
And he goes blah.
Bite your neck, blah.
Bite your neck, blah, I biteyour neck.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
You know, like how do you do that?
I was looking at thisattraction from it was like 1974
, a theme park called the LagoonPark or something.
It's in Salt Lake City, yes,and there was an attraction
called Dracula's Castle.
It's still there.
It was put in 1974.
It's still there.
It was put in 1974.
It's still there and I waswatching ride-throughs of it and
it's charming, it's supercharming.
(08:27):
It's an old-style dark ridewith a couple of neat effects.
It used to have one of thosecool rotating tunnels like they
used to do on the tram ride.
I guess they probably still doon the Universal tram ride.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, they keep decorating it.
It's either, you know, for usit was Steve Austin and Bigfoot
walking through it, but then itgot turned into the mummy at one
point.
Then it was an avalanche, orDante's Peak, or whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
But this was like an internal dark ride that had one
of those, but so I watched videoof it a couple of times.
Never saw Dracula once.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
He was outside, apparently.
I just found a picture of him.
I'm looking at the pictureright now.
He's outside he.
I just found a picture of him.
I'm looking at the pictureright now.
He's outside.
He's this weird wax figure ohweird, and he looks kind of like
a sneering Italian waiter.
Yeah, he's like ugh garlic, butthere he is, he is there.
The interior of this thing iscool.
It's got like a demon mouththat you're going through with
(09:22):
the spinning tunnel and writingin coffins.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
That's kind of cool.
I loved like outside thatattraction there was a sign that
just said it'll scare the yellout of you.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
I love that.
I know, oh, my gosh, I lovethat.
That is so funny.
So we're going to have to go toLagoon Park in Salt Lake City
to go check this out the LagoonAmusement Park.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, and this sent me down and I won't get into it
today, but it sent me down thiswhole rabbit hole of attractions
designed by this guy who I hadnever heard of before but his
name's Bill Tracy.
He started off at RinglingBrothers.
He designed floats and windowdisplays for the Macy's
Thanksgiving Day Parade and thenhe went into theme parks and
(10:10):
it's just dark ride after darkride after dark ride.
I mean he designed like 40, 50different dark rides, most of
them horror based.
Wow, at all sorts of parksaround the world.
The biggest name I saw, thebiggest park name I saw, was
Kennywood, so he designedsomething there.
Okay, otherwise there are justa lot of small regional parks,
but I was like this guy's reallyinteresting.
(10:31):
Anyway, that's for a later show.
Bill Tracy, ladies, Bill Tracy.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well, I'd definitely look into that.
Yeah, dracula's Castle wentthrough at Universal Studios.
Yes, Went through someinteresting stories.
One of the things I read aboutthe attraction there was a whole
article about it in FamousMonsters.
Yeah, that's actually really,really fun.
(10:57):
One of the things is that theyhad to try and tie it in with
modern audiences in the 80s.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, people were getting more.
This is like 79, 80.
79, 80, which is a weird timefor audiences in the 80s.
Yeah, this is like 79, 80.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
79, 80, which is a weird time for Monsterdom.
At this time, what happened wasUniversal was banking heavily
on the success of this newDracula with Frank Langella.
They thought this is going tobe our horror version of
Superman.
You will believe a man can flyas a bat, right.
So instead we're going to havethis disco sex scene in the
(11:29):
middle of it.
That just doesn't make any damnsense.
Yeah, and Sir Lawrence Olivieras this weird like rabbi
character.
That is not a very good Van.
Helsing yeah Because he was sosick.
Yeah, there's a stunt doublewho gets impaled in it.
Because they had to kill offVan Helsing, because he was just
so sick they couldn't finishthe film what a shame.
But for you Doctor who fans yeswho are watching this remake,
(11:54):
keep your eyes open for DoctorSeward's assistant sanitarium
worker.
It's none other than SylvesterMcCoy Really Yep.
He gets the iconic line in thefilm.
Well, who could possibly wantto own Carfax Abbey?
And in comes Sylvester McCoy.
Count Dracula, and in comesDracula.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And there he is Sylvester McCoy.
That's amazing.
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yep, so that's for Kelly.
And yeah it totally is.
We're both Doctor who nerds aswell, yeah and I'm a total
unabashed Seventh Doctor guy.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I love Sylvester McCoy.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, he's fun.
Yeah, he's fun.
But unfortunately, just beforeit was released, another film
was put out that starred thecomedian George Hamilton, called
Love at First Bite, yeah, whichtotally pokes holes in the
entire vampire genre.
(12:48):
It's pretty funny too, and it'sawesome.
Children of the night shut up.
It's really good.
But the problem is it made sogood of it.
It did such a good job ofparieting Dracula because it was
cashing in on the success ofMel Brooks' Young Frankenstein
yeah, like hey, brooks mademoney with this one.
(13:09):
We're going to do a Draculaversion of this, yeah, and they
did such a good job of poking ahole in everything that
everybody knew about Dracula.
It actually ruined Dracula, andI mean Dracula as a character.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
As, like you don't you very see very few Dracula
movies from that point on.
Yeah, for a long time.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, not till really Coppola.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And it really knocked out Dracula by Universal.
Yeah, they were furious thatthat had happened and because of
that nobody wanted.
People thought Dracula waspasse.
They're like, oh, that's kidstuff, what Count Chocula?
And so they tried to spruce upthe show by having a modern
movie monster come in, theIncredible Hulk Oy, in which he
(13:52):
would at some point I don't knowwhat spurs it, but at some
point, you know, out of nowhere,they just sprayed some local
bodybuilder guy from MuscleBeach or something like that to
come out in the trousers and andhe would go out and he would
grab a plant in the audience andrun off.
You know, like what are wedoing here?
Yeah, so they shut that down.
Eventually, the Dracula'sCastle shut down.
(14:14):
It did not last very long.
It only lasted for about threeor four years.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, it didn't last long and Jay Stein was never
happy with it.
He never got the effect that hewanted and, interestingly, he
was not a guy that wassentimental or held on to stuff.
If he didn't think it wasworking, he was just going to
kill it Perhaps literally, butfor some reason he was really
(14:41):
hooked on this idea and kepttrying to fix it over and over
and over again Real quick.
Before we get to the end ofthis attraction, I read this
really great story whereinitially they were trying to,
during the climax, have a flockof bats fly over the audience's
heads.
Yes, but someone came in andsaid you can't do that, it's
(15:05):
dangerous, they're bats.
Yes, but someone came in andsaid you can't do that, it's
dangerous, they're bats.
Yeah, so they hired a guy namedRay Berwick to train a flock of
little green parrots who theypainted black with a special dye
.
Oh God, after three months oftraining, it was time for the
(15:27):
final run-through.
At the proper moment, the cagedoor lifted, all the parrots
flew towards the stage, took aleft and flew out of the arena
and never came back, jeez.
So they started over and theytried to train pigeons instead.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
So one of the shows that I saw when I was younger, I
remember the pigeons, yeah, andthey, you know, they call, you
know there's the children of thenight and they turn the lights
off so you'd hear the flapping.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
And so they like dim the lights down.
So you see these flappingthings and then, but you know,
you had to ignore the fact thatthere was bird poop everywhere.
You know things, but you had toignore the fact that there was
bird poop everywhere.
Like oh, it's on my shoulder.
I remember my grandfather usedto love wearing these very
elegant leather jackets and atone point we walked out of there
.
He goes we need a bird poop onme.
So that ruined my suede, and Ithink the animatronics were done
(16:22):
by.
I forget the name of thecompany it's AKG.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
AVG, excuse me.
Yes, and they're interesting.
So they were formed by animmigrant from Colombia.
Yes, his name is Alvaro Villa.
He'd been in the US as astudent since the 60s.
He worked for the space program.
He worked for Walt Disney for alittle while doing something in
(16:50):
animation.
I don't think he was ananimator, but he did something
technically.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Layouters.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And then he invented.
We say invented.
He came up with a new way to do, animatronics, which was his
thing called theatrotronics, andhis first two jobs to implement
these things.
It was basically roboticmovement, but using computers of
the time, sure, as opposed tousing audio signals like what
(17:18):
Disney was doing.
His first two jobs number onewas the Battle of Galactica.
His first two jobs number onewas the Battle of Galactica.
So all of those figures thatwhen you were captured by the
Cylons in the Galacticaexperience on the tram ride, all
of those were histheatrotronics.
And number two was CastleDracula.
They were great.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, they were great .
I really have fond memories ofthis thing and I wish that I
would have seen it when I wasolder.
Yeah, I was so young when I sawit.
I was just more like wow,monsters, I mean, it's Dracula,
you don't care.
Yeah, you know.
And I would probably look at itwith a much more critical eye
now and kind of go oh God.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, rough.
Yeah, rough Oof, but thepictures I've seen of it like
from Famous Monsters and there'snot a lot available, so I found
a reel that was put out by thatcompany, avg, that just showed
sort of a display of what theywere doing in the early 80s, so
it has a little bit of footageof this show.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Of the werewolf and some of the others.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, and then the phantom and it looks okay.
For that period it doesn't lookbad.
It also has reels of a bunch ofother stuff they were doing
like theatrotronic shows forMcDonald's.
There was a couple of regionalshows where they had clearly
ripped off the Tiki Room becausethey were just tropical birds,
(18:42):
yep, yep.
But yeah, you can see.
That's the most footage I'veseen from.
It was from that reel.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Okay, so I want to take another attraction that
does and I'm not going to saythat this is a massive theme
park attraction, yeah, but thisis an attraction that is loved
by many people on the East Coastand it does bear mentioning
because it does involve Dracula.
Okay, and it comes from thisworld of monster movies and
(19:08):
monster kiddom.
Yeah, it was started inConnecticut by a young boy who
loved to build the Aurora modelkits.
Yeah, Of.
Dracula, frankenstein and Wolf.
Me too, I used to still, I meanup until about 2011, I still
had my glow-in-the-dark werewolfstill, I mean for up until
about 2011,.
I still had my Glow in the DarkWerewolf.
Yes, I had that one too.
I love those.
They were so great and thoseare very collectible, by the way
(19:31):
.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Even the remakes that were put up by Polar Lights,
even those go for a lot of money, yeah.
But even unboxed and paintedones go well into $100 or more
for one of those.
Oh, that's awesome, they'regreat.
Yeah, but he wasn't satisfiedwith that and he came from a.
This kid came from a showbizfamily.
(19:52):
Yeah, his name is Cortland HullBoy.
That name sounds familiar.
It should seem familiar becausehe was the great nephew of film
actor Henry Hull.
Okay, aka the werewolf ofLondon.
Yeah, a film actor, henry Hull,aka the Werewolf of London.
Yeah, and also Josephine Hull,who played one of the two sweet
little old ladies in Arsenic andOld Lace.
(20:14):
Oh, and so he came from theshowbiz family and his father,
so he started building his ownmonsters.
Okay, so he built his ownFrankenstein.
Yeah, he made them out of clay.
And at first he was just usingthe calendar masks from famous
monsters.
Yeah, he had saved up andbought a couple and just put a
dummy, made the costume.
(20:34):
His mom would make the costumeand put it up, right, but then
people would come over and itwas like a Halloween thing.
Look at this little display Iput up of Frankenstein.
Yeah, this little display I putup of Frankenstein Dracula.
But then it grew and then itgrew and then he got older and
he started sculpting themonsters.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And then he started building sets around the
monsters and his dad built alittle what he called his hobby
house where he could house thesethings and build them in yeah,
and then people were coming fromall over Connecticut to come
and see this thing.
Yeah, and because of hisconnections in Hollywood, he
would go out to Hollywood andhobnob with all these people.
So he knew Vincent Price and hegot Vincent Price to record an
(21:13):
introduction to his attraction,which is called the Witch's
Dungeon.
Oh, and then he met June Foray,who became the voice of this
witch.
That became his main logo.
Yeah, but he also had a sectionon Dracula and it was like a
one-man show where you wouldwalk through this museum that
was built.
It would have the fly, Karras,the mummy, the mole people, the
(21:35):
whole thing, and he would havethese little tape recorders set
up and he would be above you ona sliding panel turning on
lights and turning off lights.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
He's rolling above you, operating everything.
So he was like a livinganimatronic above you.
That's awesome.
And he kept doing this into the90s.
Wow, and people.
Mark Hamill came.
I mean it was a thing.
Well, eventually it moved andnow it's at 103 East Main Street
in Plainsville, connecticut.
Okay, he got moved into aspecial location because he's
(22:11):
getting up there in age, yeah,and he still maintains it, but
he just can't be the guy, hecan't be the man behind the
curtain anymore.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, he can't be crawling around.
Yeah, he can't.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
But they're really great and a lot of the heads are
actually based off of theactual life casts from these
actors and the Dracula obviouslyfeatures a lot of the dialogue
from the original Dracula.
I am Dracula.
Yeah, lot of that footage thathe got initially came from a
(22:44):
record put out by electric lemonrecords, from an album called
Boris Karloff and his friends.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
And it was an LP you could buy through Famous
Monsters.
Yeah, and it was Boris Karloffbasically narrating little audio
clips from all the famousmovies.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
That you could listen to while you're reading your
Famous Monsters books.
Right, that was put out by VernLangdon, huh, and so, like Vern
has a lot of influence on theseattractions, yeah, including
another one, yeah, whichactually predates Castle Dracula
at Universal Studios by about ayear.
Okay, in Wildwood, new Jersey.
(23:24):
Uh-huh, castle Dracula, it's atNichols Midway Pier.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
It was established in 1977 by the Nichols family.
This family bought a pier onthe Jersey shore, yeah, and they
put a bunch of roller coastersand thrill rides on it and
eventually the roller coasterkind of ran down, but they built
the attraction and when youwould walk up to it it was this
(23:53):
massive castle.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And it was a walkthrough haunted attraction
with all these differentmonsters and Dracula would
appear out of nowhere on top ofthe mantelpiece and yell at you
get out of my castle, blah.
And the other part of theattraction was a ride in coffins
in a river of blood.
Oh my God, so dang cool.
(24:18):
Yeah, it is very, very much ayou know, boardwalk style
attraction.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
But the River of Blood was a later addition.
Yeah, the castle was builtunder the foundations of what
was the roller coaster that theyhad torn down.
But the dungeon boat ride iswhen you would float through and
you go in through this mouth ofa giant skull and this river of
blood and go past torturedskeletons and all and I went.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You had me at river of blood, yeah, I don't need to
see anything else, I just wantto ride a boat in a giant river
of blood.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Did they just dye the water or was it so dark?
You just they said it was blood.
They dyed the water red.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
There's pictures of people riding this thing and the
water is red.
It's like, oh dude, I'm in.
And most of the attraction werelike kind of like homemade
versions of various Disney andwax museum attractions.
Lots of torture scenes.
You know the rack, Sure, andyou know the, but they have like
(25:24):
a skeleton with a steeringwheel and all the usual stuff.
Yeah, but you know what.
It's so homegrown.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Family.
You know, family made andfamily owned.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
That it holds a special place in my heart.
I've never been to it.
I've only seen footage andphotographs from it.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
But man, I'd love to see it.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
So I assume it's not there anymore.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
No, sadly it burned.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
It burned down and they are talking about
potentially bringing it back.
They had a revival about fivemonths ago, yeah, where they
brought back some members of theNichols family and all these
fans who had remembered theplace.
They brought back some of theartifacts that survived the fire
and they did this cute littlereplica on an outdoor stage and
they did a tribute to it.
But the guy was like, wow, I'mreally touched.
(26:12):
We're really thinking aboutmaybe doing this again.
I'd love to do it.
There's just no money in it,because he's like I know the
perfect thing let's sell stockand everybody will own a piece
of Castle Drive.
Oh, I see, ah, okay, never mind, good for you, but yeah, the
fire occurred in January 16th2002.
Yeah, so it lasted from 1977 to2002.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
That's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yeah, it's a good run .
And 1977 to 2002.
That's pretty impressive.
Yeah, it's a good run, and tothis day it is legendary in New
Jersey.
I actually have a bumpersticker on my Prius of follow me
to Count Castle Dracula inWildwood, new Jersey, just
because it's this great pictureof Count Dracula pointing like
let's go this way, follow me,we're going this way.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
You know it's interesting because, in a lot of
ways, Follow me, we're goingthis way.
You know it's interestingbecause in a lot of ways so we
are about to see in Florida, anentire land in Universal's Epic
Universe theme park based aroundthe classic Universal horror
monsters, which is great.
I am so psyched about this,Dude.
(27:16):
They have the burning windmill.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yes, they had me there, right.
That's like saying we have ariver of blood, we have the
burning windmill, I'm in.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I'm in.
Have you heard about theDracula restaurant?
Yes, yeah, it's a Draculasteakhouse.
Yes, and they're actually goingto serve the steaks on steaks.
Yes, and the waitstaff, they'rethe revenants.
So it's basically a bunch ofRenfields giving you your food.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I am so up for this.
Yeah, you have.
I mean, I'm shaking right nowbecause I really want to go to
this thing.
I do too.
Like more than any no offenseto Disney like more than
anything else right now, likethis is hitting my monster nerd.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Like nobody's business?
Oh, totally, and everythingI've seen from it looks like it
is a very nice balance of veryclassic monsters with a slightly
modern sheen to them, andrecently they put out footage of
the animatronics.
Man, they're amazing.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
The Dracula one looks terrifying.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
It's like they actually made Dracula scary
again, right.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
It's like, ooh, made Dracula scary again, right.
It's like, ooh, which isdifficult?
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah, so that's what would you call that?
A J-bang.
That's a J-bang right there youfinally get the J-bang snarling
like an animal Dracula.
But for those who are listening, if you go back some of our
episodes, there was an episodethat we did not long after a
road trip that Kelly and I tooktogether, in which we talked
(28:42):
about Bob Gurr.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, that is, by the way, by far our most listened
to episode, by far.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
That's cool.
Yeah, that's cool as opposed toGolden Horseshoe.
So if you haven't listened toour Golden Horseshoe review,
that's actually a good episode,folks.
We put a lot of work into thatone.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Why do you guys hate the Golden Horseshoe?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I did a balloon animal for that episode.
You know how hard it is to dothose things, especially on
audio.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, on audio.
That's really hard to do.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
So anyway, when we went on that road trip we got to
meet Bob at Garner HoltProductions.
We got to hobnob with all thesepeople.
Yeah, it was really really cool, nice folks.
And on the way in, I don't knowif this is where they produced
them, but I suspect.
And if someone's from Garner Iknow you're under NDA you
(29:34):
probably can't tell us.
Yeah, if someone's from Garner,I know you're under NDA you
probably can't tell us.
But I swear I saw one of thesemonster animatronics off in the
distance, off in the warehouse,under a big piece of plastic.
Yeah, they had obviouslyproduced a creature from the
Black Lagoon and a Frankensteinanimatronic for other projects,
or at least for Garner'samusement.
(29:55):
Yeah, because Garner likes tocollect stuff.
Yeah, because Garner likes tocollect stuff, you know.
But I have a sneaking suspicion.
We actually got a tiny littlepeek at these things because I
looked at one and I went.
I think that's a werewolf andif it is, it's cool.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, I mean, it would certainly make sense if
you're producing high-qualityanimatronics kind of anywhere in
the world.
But animatronics kind ofanywhere in the world, but
especially in the US.
Garner's the first person youthink of, Absolutely, so I think
that's probably where they camefrom.
We may have been in the roomwith them already.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Yeah, and it's like, if so, yay, yeah, but I'm really
looking forward to thisUniversal Monsters, epic
Universe.
Maybe at some point in ourfuture we'll finagle.
You know, for those who arelistening, for those of you at
Universal who understand that atthe executive level, who really
(30:44):
want to have a good marketingpoint, we have two sad
middle-aged white guys fromCalifornia who have reintroduced
you to the term J-bang, whohave reintroduced you to the
term J-Bang.
By the way, if you visit ourZazzle site along with our,
(31:05):
there's Snow on the Manor hornbut there's Coke on Main Street
t-shirts and magnificationshirts.
We are going to have theuniversal J-Bang t-shirts
available for you in blood redor Dracula black, but anyhow,
Just a picture of Michael Norriegrowling on it.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
J-bang the Lowdown on the Plus Up is a BoardWalkTimes
podcast.
At BoardWalkTimesnet you'llfind some of the most
well-considered and insightfulwriting about the Walt Disney
Company Disney history and theuniverse of theme parks
available anywhere.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Come join us at BoardWalkTimesnet.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
You guys think I'm kidding.
I am going to make theset-shirts.
I have a lot of free time on myhands these days.
It's going to happen.
You guys think I'm joking.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And we will take the revenue from these shirts and go
directly to Epic Universe.
We will not pass go.
We will not collect $200.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Well, we'll be lucky if we collect $100.
But you know, I mean I'll takeit.
Yeah, but for those ofexecutives, we'd love to see it.
But we are really excited.
I know I'm really excited.
I know Kelly is, but I thinkfor our listeners if you have a
chance, check out some of thefootage of this thing, what
they've got planned out theyreally seem to have it down.
I'm really excited.
Yeah, um, we have a friend ofthe show.
(32:58):
Uh, his name is don carson.
He's a former disney imagineer.
Yeah, uh, I got to meet withhim in december and we talked a
little bit about it and even hewas just like this thing is is
insanely cool yeah it looked forwhat I see of it.
It looks amazing.
It looks like they may betopping everything that Disney
is doing right now.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
And they found a way to reach back into their catalog
, reach back into theirproperties and revitalize
something.
Revitalize something thatpeople have a lot of love and a
lot of nostalgia for.
It's so smart.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
So for a nod also out to my students, I teach a class
about art, experiential design,which is, you know, it's
designing theme parks.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, it's a first grade class, so there's six year
olds.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
No, no, no, no, no.
It's a college course and it'sbasically it's.
You know, it's a concept designclass and the project that we
do throughout the entiresemester is designing a theme
park and the different elementsto it, and it's a way to teach
illustration in a fun, inclusiveway.
Right Gets people to learn howto work as a team.
I had one student, and I'll sayher name, laura.
(34:16):
Laura Rogers didn't know quitewhat she wanted to do with her
career and I kind of like pushedher and said hey, you know what
?
You should probably try thisproject that we're going to do.
We're going to do a design atheme park, so it's going to be
six weeks.
We're going to do, we're goingto do a design a theme park.
So it's going to be six weeks.
We're going to do this themepark and you might give it a try
because it incorporates all thethings that you're into.
You like horror.
You do all these great littlebits of horror illustration.
You like designing environments.
You like theater.
(34:37):
Let's try it.
Well, the assignment wasrandomly selected.
We literally put themes into ahat.
Yeah, lo and behold, out comesUniversal Monsters, uh-huh.
And then what I would do ishave the students randomly
select the attraction they weregoing to design.
Yeah, now, sometimes it was aroller coaster, sometimes it was
(34:57):
a drinking fountain.
Laura got a food court and shealso was matched up with a
specific Universal Monster.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
So somebody got the Bride of Frankenstein, somebody
got the Mole People, somebodygot Creature from the Black
Lagoon.
Laura got the Mummy, okay, andshe did these designs for these
mastaba-like food pavilions,yeah.
So one was the Pharaoh'schurros and instead of the crook
(35:28):
and the flail it was a pair ofchurros in this mummy casket's
hands and she built it like itwas a big dome, so it was the
skies of the stars over Egypt,yeah, and it was like half in
and half out, kind of like howwhen you walk in and out of Star
Traders at Disneyland, so it'slike you're air conditioned but
there's lots of big doors so youget a lot of sunlight, yeah,
(35:48):
right, and there's a bigfountain and there's a sphinxes
everywhere and there's places tosit on these stone tables.
She designed this whole thingand I worked really hard through
all my connections to get JasonSorrell, who at the time was
the creative director ofentertainment at Universal
Studios, and I asked him couldyou take some moment to meet
with us and, you know, give acritique?
(36:12):
And he said sure, but when hefound out what we were working
on, he said I can't do that.
I said why he goes?
Well, I'm kind of under NDA onsomething and I went.
Really you know like suddenlymy interest was piqued.
He goes and I can't sayanything more.
You know, universal is verynasty about their NDAs and they
(36:36):
really are Again, remember mob.
Yes.
So he didn't see it until theyfinally announced Epic Universe.
And then he said, yeah, I cantake a quick look.
Yeah, and he looked at it andhe actually sent a marvelous
comment, which is this looksbetter than some of the stuff
(36:57):
we've been seeing.
And Laura took some of thosedesigns and she actually got
some interviews at theme parkfirms and I think she actually
got some contract work out ofthat.
So I'm very proud of her fortackling this.
So we have now reached a pointwhere the sun is about to rise
over the children of the damned.
(37:17):
We must reach our final part ofour show, which is the plus-up.
So we didn't do a plus-upduring our last show with our
special guest.
He was the plus up, he was theplus up, so I don't know who
goes next.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I don't know.
Do you have something in mind?
Speaker 3 (37:36):
It's going to be a river of blood.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
It's tough because we've picked a subject matter
instead of an attraction or aland or something.
So it's like well, what does aplus-up mean?
Well, it can kind of meananything you want it to mean.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Absolutely.
I think I know what I'd like totry and do with Dracula, with
an attraction of some sort, isto go back to our interactive
episode a little bit, yes, andto set up a weekend cruise
aboard a schooner yeah, but werepaint it and redecorate it so
(38:13):
that way, yes, you're on theschooner, but for you know, it's
an overnight trip where you'reaboard the Demeter, yeah, and
it's a murder mystery slashescape room on a ship and
Dracula is aboard with it.
So it's a murder mystery slashescape room on a ship and
Dracula is aboard with it.
So it's like a haunted housemixed with an escape room on
board an actual ship out in thewater.
(38:35):
Yeah, yeah, that sounds safe.
That should work out.
But, as we say in the beginningof our program, we have no
problems with safety or budgetor anything like that.
But that's something I wouldlove to see, because Kelly and I
saw the Last Voyage of theDemeter and it's not a great
film, it's not bad, it was fun.
Yeah, it's fun, it was fun, andthat's one of my favorite parts
(38:58):
of the book actually is thisnotion of being stuck on a ship
with the Prince of Darkness.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Like ooh, this is cool darkness.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, oh, this is cool.
So if you were on that, if youwere doing like a murder mystery
or something like that, thatwas that was based on that
assumedly all of the the patrons, yeah would have to be
eliminated one by one.
Oh, yeah because there'sthere's an inevitableness.
It's like it's like doing a uhuh cthulhu story, like
eventually you're all gonna die.
There's no way around thattitanic yeah, yeah, exactly so
(39:27):
what would they do?
So say you get eliminated early,like Dracula gets to you early.
What do you do?
Do you become a rat?
Like what happens.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
No, you become a revenant.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Oh, you become a revenant.
Okay, you become a revenant.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
And then you have other things, that you have cops
and robbers, and you know ifyou're a cop and you suddenly go
bad.
Oh, this would be great.
Like you know, you have to havea buy-in, but at the same time,
it still could be really,really fun.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So that's my plus-up.
How about you?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
I've been thinking about so you hear this from
Disney a lot that everythingstarts at story and more and
more I'm thinking this is a badidea.
So all of my favorites I'mgoing to talk about a dark ride
here All of my favorite darkrides don't tell a story
(40:26):
particularly well that greatoriginal scary Snow White ride
or Peter Pan, or you know whatare the?
The cave train in Santa Cruz,oh yeah, the Spelunker's Cave at
Six Flags Over Texas.
They don't tell storiesparticularly well, not the fairy
(40:49):
tales, right.
What they do is they reflect amood really well, mm-hmm, and
they will sort of energize thepart of your brain that saw a
story previously.
Sure, and say, hey, you rememberthis bit, remember this bit,
but they don't actually tell astory previously.
Sure, and say, hey, youremember this bit, remember this
bit, but they don't actuallytell a story particularly well.
(41:10):
And I think this may be a wholeother conversation, but I think
this may be a mistake thattheme parks are making right now
as they're trying to tellreally coherent stories in a
single attraction.
But I agree, what I'm gettingat is that what I Joe Rohde,
would have our heads for sayingthat.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
I know, is that what I, joe Rohde, would have our
heads for saying that?
Speaker 2 (41:26):
He would, and I love the guy.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
I do too, but we can hear him coming yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Rattle, rattle, rattle, rattle.
But what I would like to do isto do a moody, greatest hits
dark ride through the HammerDracula film.
Hell, yeah, I'm in it.
So we just, you know, lots ofChristopher Lee, lots of Peter
Cushing, animatronics, you know,and you go all the way through.
(41:52):
So you know, you start athorror of Dracula.
Maybe you get that final scenewith the candelabra and the
curtains coming down.
Yeah, and you know, you doBrides of Dracula, you do
Dracula, prince of Darkness.
You're just slipping through.
You get, you know scars andtaste the blood of Dracula.
(42:13):
You.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
You drink the filth, you drink the filth.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I want to be in a dark ride where someone yells
you drink the filth at me.
This is what I want in my life.
And, of course, you end upspiraling out to Dracula, ad 72.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
And Satanic Rites of Dracula and.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Satanic Rites of Dracula, where the band
Stoneground plays a number foryou at the end and everyone's
wearing white satin suits andstuff.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
And.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Christopher Lee's refusing to speak.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I don't want to be a part of this film One.
You know, I want to plus upyour plus up.
All right, you go for it.
Yeah, okay, so we had anotherepisode where we talked about
shooting galleries.
Yes, but we mostly focused onthe firearms aspect we didn't
(43:14):
really talk about like BuzzLightyear and the Toy Story, you
know light-sensitive laserthing.
Wouldn't it be cool as a plusupif it was a reverse shooting
gallery, meaning the creaturesthat—so you go through your ride
.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
In a lot of those films Dracula actually
mind-controls bats.
I think it's in Dracula, princeof Darkness, where he's
actually controlling a bat toremove a crucifix from a young
busty maiden's neck and we seeher wonderful décolletage
beneath this crucifix as thisridiculous rubber bat comes in
(43:58):
and yanks it off.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
It's so ridiculous it might as well be a Jean Rollin
film.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
So yeah, but wouldn't it be cool if you had other
creatures of the night and otherthings that actually, whenever
you have the red eyes staring atyou, they're actually shooting
beams at you?
Okay, and you have like areader, like you're riding on
the cart and the only way toavoid getting your blood sucked
(44:28):
by the gaze of Dracula.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
He's doing all sorts of air quotes right now.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
I totally An eyeball pointy things.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, pointy, eyeball fingers.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
But the gaze of Dracula.
You get electronic blockingcrucifix, so you're trying to
block the laser beams with thecrucifix.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So you got people waving their hands around
furiously with this crucifix, soyou're trying to block the
laser beams with the crucifix,so you got people waving their
hands around furiously with thiscrucifix.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
But you get to points where it's like here I am.
I'm Dracula.
Hold up the crucifix.
You have to have faith to makeit work.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
What's the repercussions if you don't do it
fast enough?
Speaker 3 (45:04):
You lose points.
Like I said, it's like BuzzLightyear, but instead of
gaining points by finding thatone little hole in the wall
where you can shoot and get10,000 points, you're trying not
to get zapped.
Yeah, so you're using it toblock the laser beams going.
No, no, but if you don't do it,you lose points from your car.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Which is you losing blood?
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Yeah, so it's you losing blood.
So you actually have theselittle digital meters that have
bubbling blood and it goes alittle bit further and it goes
down and you have Van Helsing.
Look out, marty, it's gettingtoo low.
So Van Helsing is played byChristopher Lloyd.
Yeah, I'd take it.
(45:47):
Biff Tannen is Renfield.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
I don't make the things, I just think them up.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
If your points get low enough, you become a
revenant.
So when you go out to see thepicture that inevitably is at
the end of every ride, thepicture of you in the ride
there's just flies.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
The blood is the life .
So before we sign off, onceagain, our tribute is to David
Skoll and, if you are interestedin learning more, we talked a
little bit about the lore andthe history of Dracula.
I would highly recommend goingto Amazon or your favorite
(46:30):
bookseller and purchase copiesof some of his books, and here's
some that I would like torecommend.
One is Something in the Blood,the untold story of Bram Stoker,
the man who wrote Dracula.
Yeah, and that's a greatbiography of Brahm, written by
David Scull.
He also wrote a book called theMonster Show, which is an
overview of horror and itseffect on Americana.
(46:52):
Uh-huh Hollywood Gothic, whichis a great tale of how the 1931
movie Dracula was made and allof the perils and pitfalls
thereof.
And then V is for Vampire,which is a guide to everything
undead.
It's more encyclopedic and itcovers everything from London
(47:14):
After Midnight to Dracula vsFrankenstein.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
The bad 1971 film.
Yeah, he has a book onHalloween.
I mean, he is very prolific.
And lastly, dark Carnival,which is a biography of
filmmaker Todd Browning.
It was his last project he wastrying to finish.
Yeah, this coffee table bookabout the great director and his
insane life.
It is quite a read.
(47:38):
So I know he has some familymembers who still benefit from
the sale of his books.
So if you have a chance and ifyou have an interest in monster
movies, I cannot recommend thesebooks enough.
And so that's my little lovenote to David.
So thank you for all theinspiration.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
All right.
So before we sign off, what'syour favorite Dracula film
Number one, the number oneDracula.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
Good heavens, you're putting me in a corner here.
Yeah, I actually think myfavorite dracula film is the bbc
version that was done.
It was a mini series, yeah, andit was done roughly about the
same time that doctor who's TomBaker's Doctor who was being
(48:26):
produced, because a lot of thesame sound cues and sound
effects are being used in it.
But it stars Frank Finlay as DrAbraham Van Helsing, yeah, and
Louis Jourdan as Dracula, yeah,and it's actually for a
made-for-TV movie.
It's actually quite terrifying.
It scared the heck out of mewhen I was a kid.
(48:49):
Yeah, it's great, and, don'tget me wrong, I love the
Christopher Lee films, but ifyou want a Dracula movie that
really got under my skin, that'sthe one.
Not because it's close to thebook, not because of the special
effects.
That's the one that actuallyreally scared me.
Yeah, and I love Dracula films.
(49:09):
I mean, I'll even watch DraculaMeets Billy the Kid.
Sure, you know.
So, yeah, how about you?
Speaker 2 (49:17):
If we count the Nosferatu films I would say
maybe the Herzog Nosferatu.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
If we don't count the Nosferatu films, oof, it's kind
of hard to top Kinski's mouthbreathing.
Yeah, I've got to tell you.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
If we don't count those, I might go with Guy
Maddin's Dracula Pages from aVirgin's Diary oh, that's cool
which is one of the few filmsthat actually does have Quincy
Morris doing the deed, and it'sjust so wackadoodle, weird and
(49:58):
fascinating.
I just love it.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
I think my number two is actually Andy Warhol's
Dracula.
Just to hear Udo Kears shoutout the blood of these whores is
killing me.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
By the way, oh, one thing, that Dracula pages from A
Virgin's Diary has that noother film I've ever seen?
No other Dracula film I've everseen has and this is directly
from the book.
Dracula actually does bleedmoney from it, because in the
book Dracula gets cut and moneycomes out.
I forgot about that.
(50:31):
You're right, and it's a racist, anti-immigrant thing that
Stoker did.
Oh yeah, big time.
And he makes a point to saythat, oh, there's British pounds
in there now, but it's the onlyfilm that actually has that in
it.
Wow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
That's insane.
Yeah, yeah, not a lot of moviesactually have like the hairy
palms or other stuff like that.
No, these are all things thatwhen we open up our Christopher
Lee tribute Dark Ride yeah, withflailing crosses and laser beam
zapping, that's going to be themerchandise.
Yeah, with flailing crosses andlaser beam zapping, that's
going to be the merchandise.
Yeah, we'll have our Draculastomach money dispenser.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
We'll have our hairy palm, our.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Dracula stomach press penny machine.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Yeah, press penny machine and then, hairy palmed,
like you know, mittens that youcan buy.
You know the obvious Draculateeth, the cheapy plastic,
nicolas Cage, dracula teeth, youknow, all right.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
This is a good place to stop.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
We are totally digging ourselves into a shallow
grave here folks.
So on that note, I'm PeterOverstreet.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
And I'm Kelly McCuffin and you've been
listening to the Lowdown on thePlus.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of the Lowdown on the
(52:06):
Plus Up.
If you have, please tell yourfriends where you found us, and
if you haven't, we can pretendthis never happened and need not
speak of it again.
For a lot more thoughts ontheme parks and related stuff,
check out my writing forBoardWalkTimes at
BoardWalkTimesnet.
Feel free to reach out to Peteand I on our Lowdown on the Plus
Up Facebook group or send us amessage directly at comments at
(52:28):
lowdown-plus-upcom.
We really want to hear abouthow you'd plus these attractions
up and read some of your ideason the show.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
Our theme music is Goblin Tinker Soldier Spy by
Kevin MacLeod at incompetechcom.
We'll have a new episode outreal soon.
Why?
Because we like you.
You fools you.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
Pathetic spineless fools you drink, then you drink
it.
You drink the filth, no.
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