When the Motion Stopped: Tomorrowland Live at the Hojo!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Our next adventure awaits us in Tomorrowland.
This fantastic world of thefuture is just a few steps
across the plaza from the worldsof yesterday and today, and as
we enter Tomorrowland's famousworld clock shows the exact time
for any place on Earth.

Speaker 4 (00:19):
Thank you, hello, and welcome to the Lowdown on the
Plus Up a podcast where we lookat everyone's favorite theme

(00:56):
park attractions, lands,textures and novelties.
We talk in over, about andthrough our week's topic and
then, with literally no concernfor practicality, safety or
economic viability, we come upwith ways to make them better.
My name is Kelly McCubbin,columnist for the theme park
website Boardwalk Times, andwith me, as always, is Peter

(01:17):
Overstreet University, professorof Animation and Film History
in Northern California.
So, pete, what are we?

Speaker 5 (01:36):
talking about today.
Well, we're going to talk abouta subject that a lot of us fans
of Disneyland have close to ourhearts but I think we're afraid
to talk about it a lot which isabout the part of the park that
we all love and yet not a lotof us actually go to anymore,
for a variety of reasons.
It's usually at the bottom ofour list.

(01:56):
We go oh yeah, we should gothere, but it wasn't always like
that.
Yes that's right, it wasn't.
We all do have a love andrespect.
You and I were in the park.
We were wandering around, we'regoing to New Orleans Square,
having a great time, and then wewent.
Maybe we should go to thisplace.
We really should.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Before we do a show about it in like three hours.

Speaker 5 (02:15):
Right, yeah, maybe we should actually go.
And then we realized how sadthat realization was, and the
part of the park that we'regoing to talk about today is
Tomorrowland.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (02:28):
Yes, Tomorrowland, which these days a lot of people
, including people atImagineering and at Disney
Corporate and this has beengoing on for decades have been
perplexed of what to do about it.
Yeah, there are many iterationsat the many different parks all
over the world.
We're going to be focused onthe original, the park here at

(02:49):
Disneyland.
We are actually recording thisepisode, yes, in the Suite of
the Future at Howard Johnson'sHotel in Anaheim, california,
the Suite of the Retro Futurewith an actual, an actual yes.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
Paul Barry of Winds of the Magic fame.

Speaker 6 (03:07):
The house of the Retro Future suite inspired by
the former Disneyland attractionMonsanto's Plastics Home of the
Future.
Unquote.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
Okay so the suite of the Retro Adventureland tree
inspired by the Swiss familyspaceman.
I'm going to hit you.
You wouldn't like him when he'sangry.
No, but anyway.

(03:39):
So, and we're here with a bunchof friends.
Hello Say, hello everybody.
It's our first live audience.
This is so cool.
People from all over thecountry came in to basically
visit our friend Paul of Winter,to the Magic fame, and he
allowed us to do this while theywere here, which is amazing.

(04:00):
So we're so glad to be here andso glad you're all here with us
.

Speaker 5 (04:03):
Absolutely.
We will be doing plugs of allof their various podcasts and
podcasters at the end of theshow.
Yes, because they're all soawesome for being here and
allowing us to record the showhere tonight.
So, and they're here as ourguests.
We've just finished dinnereating off of plastic TV dinner
trays, eating fabulous TVdinners and drinking very bad

(04:23):
for us sodas, and listening toretrofuturistic music and having
a ball, and we haven't evenbegun recording the episode.
So this is pretty great.
Wait, we haven't.
Oh geez, we better turn on themachine.
No, no, we've had a great timeso far, so hopefully now it's
Kelly's my turn to actuallyentertain the room.

Speaker 7 (04:43):
Let me real quick.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
Take a tenor of the audience yes, be flat.
So I mean, we're all theme parkfans, we all love Disneyland,
we all love like Rise of theResistance.
Yes, yes, we all love it.
Now, how many people in thisroom would be willing to burn
that thing to the ground to getthe people mover back?

(05:05):
Yes, these are our people.
There's a lot of hands going up.

Speaker 5 (05:10):
A lot of hands went up on that one.
That's great.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
Yeah that's Now I know what we're playing to Right
on.

Speaker 5 (05:19):
So here's.
This is the reason that thissubject came up.
Kelly and I have been puttingthis off for some time, because
this was actually one of thefirst episodes we really talked
about doing, and then we did ourfirst episode, which was about
Mr Lincoln.
Yes, right.
Great moments with Mr Lincoln.
Great moments with Mr Lincoln,which was a very fun episode,

(05:39):
and again, I have to patourselves on the back a little
bit.
We actually kind of predictedwhat they're doing to it, which
I'm very happy about.
So check out the dates, folks.
It's actually on there.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
But that was my mighty crucial moment you make
it sound like the Kennedyassassination.

Speaker 5 (05:56):
There's a conspiracy, I tell you.
Well, I mean, there's thatwhole Kennedy-Lincoln conspiracy
, crossover thing oh yeah withthe three-letter thing.
Yeah, exactly so.
Lincoln Conspiracy crossover ohyeah, with the three-letter
thing.
Yeah, exactly so.
Now we're going to have to getto Walt, right, but he's gone so
we don't have to worry about it.
So, anyway, but this was thefirst episode that we discussed
doing and then we realized it'stoo big.
It's too big of a subject toreally take on yet, and it took

(06:19):
us a while to figure it out.
And I think it came when Kellyand I first came down and we met
Paul and had a greatwalkthrough with him, and then
we were walking around inTomorrowland and we suddenly
realized nothing was moving.
The people were walking around,but there was no people mover.
The Orbitron was down.
There was no rocket racers.

(06:39):
Yeah rocket rods, yeah, rocketrods.
There was nothing, nothing wasmoving, nothing was kinetic, and
it was like wait a minute,that's not the way this is
supposed to be.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
So this leads into something that I kind of wanted
to suggest early on.
Yeah, I think the single mostmagical thing that happened at
Disneyland ever happened in 1961.
And I'll tell you what thatthing is.
It's the only time that I knowof that.

(07:09):
An attraction escaped the park.
The monorail was builtoriginally to travel solely
inside the park as ademonstration of commuter
transport.
In 1961, the monorail escapedthe park and formed actual
transport that was useful forpeople to the Disneyland Hotel,

(07:31):
and that may not seem like much,but I think it really speaks to
a lot of how we feel aboutTomorrowland.
Tomorrowland, I would argue, isnot a science fiction land, or
at least it wasn't intended tobe originally what it was was.
It was intended to look towardsprogress, it was intended to

(07:56):
demonstrate new things, and inthis one case, in 1961, a ride
actually became the thing it wasdemonstrating, and I think that
sort of serves as where I plantmy flag for Tomorrowland.
Like this is whatTomorrowland's about.

Speaker 5 (08:16):
And Bob Gurr driving off with Richard Nixon.
That's right.

Speaker 7 (08:20):
Hang on, tricky Dick, let's go.
Thanks Bob.
Hang on, tricky Dick, let's go.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
Thanks, Bob, that's right.
Yeah, they had run the monorailexactly one full time before it
actually was premiered and itwent one full time around the
track and then Richard Nixon gotin.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
Without his security.
Yeah, they weren't happy Bob'slike I've kidnapped the
president of the United States.
And the Tomorrowland that we'regoing to really go into.
I mean we're going to give likea little brief, because there's
like different eras ofTomorrowland.
There's like different sectionsthat we refer to as like the
birth of it, and then there'sthe revitalization of it, which

(08:59):
is roughly around 1958.
Then there's the big Tencentialunveiling of a lot of what we
know of Tomorrowland and what wethink of.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
Well, there's like New Tomorrowland, which is like
1967.
Correct?

Speaker 5 (09:10):
Yeah, and then there's New, new Tomorrowland,
oh boy.

Speaker 7 (09:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:15):
Just another section of embarrassment, but then
that's unfortunately.
That is kind of the beginningof the end of what we think of
as Tomorrowland.
When you go into the park, ifyou go into the Star Tours gift
shop, there's a little shelfthat has this kind of retro
Tomorrowland tchotchkes, bags,socks, t-shirts and so forth and

(09:35):
they're gorgeous, all thefabulous orange and blue color
arrangements and they've got thepeople mover and they've got
the monorail.
Wow, I want that.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:46):
But then you turn around, you look around outside
tomorrow, oh that's not thereanymore.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
I just hate the planet.
Great, you know it's like, yeah,and I would argue so, as we're
moving up towards the creationof Disneyland and we're moving
up towards the beginnings ofTomorrowland and in the first
couple of years, you know, theDisneyland TV show is doing some
futuristic stuff.
Mostly, ward Kimball isdirecting a show like man in

(10:12):
Space and Our Friend the Atom,but I would argue that the most
significant one of those was onethat he also directed called
Magic Highways USA, which is alot of fun.
It does that sort of world ofmotion thing where it's like
here's the history oftransportation in cartoon form.

(10:33):
That's a lot of fun.
Then it does this weird15-minute segment about how
highways are built and you don'tthink that's interesting until
you're watching it and you'relike, wow, they're taking the
cement and they're actuallymixing it with the ground up
dirt and then planing that offand then pouring oil on, like
this is kind of fascinating, butso they do that.

(10:53):
It's also interesting in termsof, you know, when they're
opening Disneyland itself.
They're trying to get the fiveopen, like that week.
So you know, walt and his teamare out literally bribing the
workers with beer to get theexit so that people can get off
it to get to Disneyland.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
Right next to where we are sitting.
Yeah, yeah, right next to wherewe were sitting, literally.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
But then Magic Highways USA goes into the
transportation of the future andI think this is really the
thing that really inspiresTomorrowland, particularly when
you get past that bumpy firstfew years, when you get past the
Kaiser Hall of Aluminum and thebathroom of the future and the.

Speaker 5 (11:39):
Don't worry, I don't even think they were thinking of
that.

Speaker 4 (11:42):
The art corner the 20,000 Leagues Exhibition.
Wait, I wrote it down, yeah youdid.
This way we have notes.
The Clock of the World, theFlight Circle, hobbyland, the
Hall of Chemistry, the WorldBeneath Us by Richfield Tyers,
yep, those first couple of years, they're just trying to kind of
move it along.
Those first couple of years,you know, they're just trying to

(12:03):
kind of move it along.
But once they start changingthings and once they start
adding things, it really becomesabout those last like 15
minutes or so of Magic Highways,usa.
That's the transportation ofthe future that they start to
build in Tomorrowland and that'skind of why I make this

(12:23):
argument that turningTomorrowland into science
fiction is— or science fantasy.

Speaker 5 (12:30):
Yeah, let's actually—I would like to
actually make the argument thatit's science fantasy.
Yeah, because science fictionis about progress, especially
when you have writers like Wellsand Jules Verne, who actually
have a conflict, where JulesVerne wrote this book from the
voyage de la lune of going up tothe moon.

Speaker 7 (12:49):
He says I figured out how to get people up to the
moon.
We put them inside this giantbullet and we shoot them up into
space.
That Englishman, he writes thisbook.
It's this magical paint calledCavarite.
He's very stupid.
This is science fantasy.
I do science fiction.

Speaker 5 (13:08):
And so that's the kind of argument that would go
on.
So I would actually make theargument that it's science,
fantasy where we have progressednow especially.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yeah, to kind of double down on this idea.
I see no indication in therecords that Walt Disney was
particularly interested inscience fiction.
Now, many of you are.
I know the thing that justpopped into your heads and I can
see it in your eyes.
Ray Bradbury claims that he metWalt Disney and Walt Disney

(13:38):
said I've read some of yourbooks.
Actually, no, he said I've readyour books.
I love Ray Bradbury.
Ray Bradbury and Ursula Le Guinare like the best science
fiction fantasy writers of the20th century.
Ray Bradbury lies.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
I didn't write prunes in any of my stories.
What are these guys?

Speaker 4 (14:04):
trying to pull.
Ray Bradbury is notorious aboutexaggerating stories to kind of
make himself look moreinteresting in retrospect.

Speaker 5 (14:18):
I actually stepped on that butterfly and I was fine.
And I was fine.
Look, I've turned out fine.
I didn't have hair before thenand I do now.
Let's go to Clifton's, yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:34):
I talked to.
Recently I had an emailconversation with a guy, Dr Phil
Nichols.
He's a British literary scholar.
He's possibly the world'sforemost scholar on Ray Bradbury
and he's a guy that if you havea Bradbury question he's
allowed to go.
Look through his letters.
That's where this guy is and wetalked a little bit about Ray's

(14:58):
stories of reworking somethingwicked.
This way comes Theoretically,it had a bad screening.
They started reworking it Inlater years.
Bradbury started saying well, Icame in and filmed all of the
reshoots and I re-edited thefilm and I saved it.
He said this a lot.

(15:19):
You can find video of himsaying it when they dedicated
the Halloween tree.
He talks about it.
Ray Bradbury lies.
He did not do that.
Yeah, we have plenty ofdocumentation that they were
going to let him in.
He wasn't in the director'sunion.
He wouldn't have been allowedto film anything.
They had pretty much shut himout of the production by the end

(15:41):
.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
They weren't responding to him or the
original.
He let Ray Harryhausen runaround on set all the time.
Well, that'd be kind of cool,it was.
There's photographs of that,really.
Yeah, they're on the set.
They're in this little citysquare there in front of the
barber pole, and there's theHarryhausens and there's Ray
Bradbury going hello everybody.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
I let him on set.
This is interesting, so I justread.
There's some later books thatBradbury wrote.
He started writing noirs.
He started writing noirs andcrime fiction and he wrote a
trilogy of noirs that aresemi-autobiographical.
It's clearly him, and in one ofthem it's him and Ray

(16:18):
Harryhausen solving a mysterytogether.
That's cool and it's super fun.
It's ridiculous but it's superfun, especially if you live in
Los Angeles, as he did for mostof his life.
You get to really get seepedinto that culture that he came
up through.

Speaker 5 (16:37):
It's that great fight scene in which the criminal has
got them cornered in theBiltmore Hotel and then
Harryhausen reaches in hispocket and throws a skeleton at
them.
It's pretty great.
So let's get into the creationhere of, let's get into the meat
and potatoes here, and it'sfunny that Kelly's got all of

(16:58):
his notes here in front of him.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
I do this a lot and I use like a tenth of them.

Speaker 5 (17:03):
And me.
I just wing it, but Kelly hasall of his notes held together
with paperclips, and I wouldmake the argument that
Tomorrowland begins with a veryWith paperclips.
It begins with paperclips, veryspecifically Operation
Paperclip.
That's right, because which was, for those who don't know, this
was the push of the Americangovernment at the end of World

(17:25):
War II to try and turn Naziscientists into American
scientists, so that way theywouldn't be taken by the Soviet
Union, because we were suddenlylike, oh well, we don't have the
Nazis to be afraid of anymore.
Now we got Stalin, so now webetter get all these German
scientists on our side if we'regoing to start doing rocketry.
And so, with OperationPaperclip, they got all these

(17:47):
different scientists doingvarious things, and one of which
was, of course, Werner VonBraun.

Speaker 7 (17:53):
Nazi schmatzi, nazi schmatzi, says Werner Von Braun.

Speaker 5 (17:57):
So, werner Von Braun, I have to do the voice.
Yeah, I know it's going tostart sounding like Ludwig von
Drake, but Werner Von Braun.

Speaker 7 (18:06):
Braun came all the way over here to work on the
rockets.

Speaker 5 (18:11):
So, and he like that was his Lean into the von Drake,
it's better, it's better, yeah.

Speaker 7 (18:16):
Yeah, he came over here to work on the rockets.

Speaker 5 (18:18):
It was very, very fascinating.
But apparently he was veryoutspoken Like at first.
He was like the only reason whyI joined the Nazi party was so
that way I could make therockets.

Speaker 7 (18:33):
And then he started to realize like, oh, wait a
minute, you're doing all of thisethnic cleansing stuff.

Speaker 5 (18:37):
This is making me a little uncomfortable.
Who's going to build my rocketsnow?
You know.
So he would be very outspokenabout it.
Well, I guess he spoke to onetoo many people, and so he was
actually in prison for two yearsby adolf hitler, and the only
reason why he wasn't executed,like adolf hitler himself said
like nine, we need, we need him.
Why I just made hitler soundlike arnold schwarzenegger, I

(18:59):
don't know, but there it is andyou know.
So Adolf Hitler got him out andbasically, from that point on,
wernher von Braun was liketrying to get out of Nazi
Germany, saying I'm in realtrouble, yeah.
And so he got in on OperationPaperclip and became an American
scientist with very strong oldworld Nazi ties yeah,

(19:23):
uncomfortable.
Then it becomes the launch ofSputnik.
Very strong old world Nazi ties, yeah, uncomfortable.
Then it becomes the launch ofSputnik.
Yeah.
In which the space race reallykicks in.
Yeah, and the United Statesgovernment suddenly realizes
that we have a small ball, abouttwo and a half feet wide sphere

(19:44):
, with these long rods, thesefour rods sticking out the back,
and all it did was go beep,beep, beep, but it was flying
overhead.
My father actually told storiesof looking up and he could see
Sputnik going overhead and itreally terrified people because
if they could get that up intospace, they could get anything
into space.
How the hell did we get?
How did we get beaten up there?

(20:04):
We got to get somethinganything into space.
How the hell did we get beatenup there?
We got to get something up inthis space fast.
So it became the space race oftrying to build rockets to get
us up to the moon.
The problem was the Americanpublic was not ready for this.
We were still in the throes ofthe Red Scare, mccarthyism was
at its peak and everybody wasmore worried about their

(20:27):
neighbor than the actual Soviets, who really were saying, oh,
we've got to take down theAmericans.
So it became this push, and sothey needed a way to convince
the American public that thiswas something that you should
spend your tax dollars on.
We hadn't gotten to Kennedy's,we chose to go to the moon.
Yeah, we hadn't gotten to thatpoint yet, right, it was just

(20:48):
let's get to space, right?
So they called upon oneparticular person who had served
them well during World War IIwith propaganda pictures, like
Donald Duck's Diffuser's Face,which I love, um, and all of
their educational films and, uh,all of their um logos and so

(21:12):
forth, that they would do forthe different outfits, like the
CBs and all the other uh outfitsin the war, which was Walt
Disney.
And they basically approachedthem and said hey, you have this
program on ABC, you're buildingthis theme park.
Is there any way that you canhelp us out a little bit?
Like we sent you on thisGoodwill tour of South America,

(21:33):
mostly to get rid of Walt, sothat way they could settle the
strike of 1941.
While he wasn't in the country.

Speaker 9 (21:39):
Yeah, it's like let's get him out of the country so
we can get this labor disputetaken care of.

Speaker 5 (21:43):
So he shipped them off, but he served them well
enough and he was.
For those of you who may nothave heard our show, we divide
Walt's life into three sections.
The first section is from birthto just before he starts
working on Snow White, andthat's Walt the Huckster.
Yeah, I would not work withWalt the Huckster.

(22:03):
Yeah, I would not work withWalt the Huckster at all.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
But you would not be able to resist Walt the Huckster
, because this is a guy that hada company in Kansas City,
didn't pay all his animators forlike six months, moved out to
Hollywood, called them andconvinced them to come work for
him again.

Speaker 5 (22:20):
Including Ubar Works.
Yeah, you know yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
He absolutely was a genius at inspiring people to
come work for him again,including Uwe Eirwerks.
Yeah, you know?
Yeah, he absolutely was agenius at inspiring people to
come work for him.
He was the Henry Hill ofanimation.
It worked out in the long run.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 5 (22:31):
And then there's part two.
His next chapter is life, whichis very brief.
It's Walt the Artur.
He releases Snow White.
Oh, walt Disney's a genius,he's the great, you know, he's
there with Dali and LeopoldStokowski.
This guy's the great artist,right.
And then the strike happens inEl Grupo, where he goes off to

(22:52):
South America.
That's the end of the auteur,which is a very short space of
time, yeah, 1937 to 1945,roughly.
And then the war ends, and thenhe starts to kind of blossom
and become the Uncle Walt thatwe know.
That's the one that everybodygoes.
Yeah, uncle Walt.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
That's the one we're familiar with.
That's the one that we'remostly familiar with, because we
saw him on TV all the time.

Speaker 5 (23:15):
Right thanks to ABC.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
I didn't know when I was growing up that he was not
alive, because I would watchWonderful World of Disney on
Sunday.

Speaker 5 (23:27):
It took me a minute Like he was fake.
No, automaton Walt.
Well, we were talking about RayHarryhausen.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
That's too soon, isn't it?
That's too soon.

Speaker 5 (23:38):
Don't worry folks, he's coming out in July, yeah,
so anyway.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
But yeah, I just assumed that he was still around
, because I saw him on TV everyweek.
That's the one that I grew upwith and loved.
Yes.

Speaker 5 (23:50):
Exactly so.
This is the Walt that isapproached with all of his
baggage and all of the stuffthat had come about before.
Now we're in the 50s, we'vegotten through the Red Scare,
now it's.
Can you find a way how to tellthe American people you've got
their eyes, they're tuning in tosee you're building Disneyland.
Is there a way we can do this?
And so he talks to the fewartists who isn't working on

(24:13):
Disneyland, ward Kimball and hegets Ward away from his trains
for a couple minutes.
And Ward is a genius likethere's very few people.
He's actually noted as one ofthe very few people that Walt
really looked at and said you'rea genius in the original
Imagineering crew To get thattype of compliment from Walt

(24:34):
Disney.
He wouldn't even compliment youin your Jell-O Like this is
really tasty.
He wouldn't even do that.
But Ward Kimball, he broughthim on board and Ward said, hmm,
let me make a couple of phonecalls.
And he literally just got onthe phone.
He was like can I talk toWernher von Braun?
And brought him on there.
And so we had.

(24:56):
Was it the man journey man inspace, man in space.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
There's an interesting thing about Ward
Kimball, wernher von Braun andman in space.
So first off off, theysurprisingly predicted how the
space flight to the moon wasgoing to happen.
Yeah, like they pretty muchnailed it.
Yep, they were like this yeah,that what they showed was kind
of what they did when, uh, theyused some footage of that for
the original flight to the moonattraction.

(25:21):
And there's some footage.
When you circle the moon,there's a brief flash and
there's a little bit of whatlooks to be an ancient
civilization on the moon as youcircle it.
Von Braun was furious.
He was so angry that Kimballhad put that in there.
They had these major argumentsabout it because Von Braun was a

(25:43):
scientist and he knew it wasn'ttrue.
But eventually Kimball justsaid you got to show him
something.
You have to give him somethingto have gotten to and seen.
Wow.

Speaker 5 (25:52):
Look at all that dirt .
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So they did this, and a littleside note about Werner von Braun
and this specific special onthe wonderful world of Disney.
I do events and sometimes I domuseum exhibits, and back in

(26:13):
2011, I worked on an exhibitcalled NASA Human Adventure and
what it was?
It was the story of the spacerace for Europeans, so they
could understand NASA from thisperspective.
I was responsible for doing thisgallery called Go Fever, which
was literally the birth of theRussian space program and the
American space program andshowing their concurrent growth

(26:35):
side by side.
So half the gallery was in redand all in Russian, and the
other side was all blue and allin English.
That was the most ham-handedmetaphor I could think of, but
it worked.
And we had a replica of Sputnikoverhead beeping.
We had the tachometer from theX-1 that actually broke when

(26:56):
Chuck Yeager broke the soundbarrier.
That was really cool.
And during the premiere of theexhibit there's a lot of stories
from this exhibit, but the bestthat I had was during the
premiere of this exhibit I gotto shake hands with the Princess
of Sweden.
That was really cool.
And then right afterwards,there was all these different
astronauts and one was CharlieDuke from Apollo 17.

(27:19):
And also Al Bean, who wasanother Apollo astronaut, these
two guys who had actually beenthere on the moon.
And I'm having dinner with them, just like this close.
I'm like I'm with someone who'straveled more miles than I'll
ever imagine in my life.
And I remember asking CharlieDuke saying okay, let's get this
out of the way here For all thepeople that think that the moon

(27:41):
landing was faked.
When somebody asks you thatquestion, what moon landing was
faked?
What, what, what is when?
When somebody asks you thatquestion, what do you tell them?
He says, well, two things.
One, we were spying on theRussians.
They were, you know, and theywere spying on us.
If we were going to fake it,they would know that.
Someone would know, someonewould talk.
There's no way we could getaway with faking it at all.

(28:09):
Believe me, our security wasnot that good.
The second part he said is haveyou actually seen this Disney
special called Journey to man inSpace?
Have you seen this?
I said, yeah, he goes.
Did you see the clip whereWernher von Braun is showing the
moon landing and the rocketlooks like a 57 Chevy with the

(28:30):
fins, it's cherry red withglitter and it's got these
fabulous yellow stripes andstuff on it.
He takes it apart.

Speaker 7 (28:38):
They're going to put him on the moon and this part
will break off and they willland on the moon, and then it
will come up and it's describedin the space shuttle.

Speaker 5 (28:45):
He says did you actually see what we landed on
the moon with?
Don't you think if we werefaking it we would have made it
look that cool, like let's givethe audience what they wanted,
like let's make it look likeForbidden Planet, you know?
Like come on.
So like that's why you don'tfake it.
So I said so.
Wernher von Braun, you know,was he cool or what?

(29:07):
And he says no.
I met him along with GuntherWendt, one of the flight
supervisors, and one of the bestartifacts at that exhibit was a
cowboy hat, this giant10-gallon cowboy hat.
That was a gift to Wernher vonBraun from LBJ and it's huge,
but it's a tiny, tiny little hatand I put it on.

(29:31):
I'm like Werner did not have alot of skull, so I've actually
worn the cowboy hat of WernerVon Braun, but that's special.
It was very instrumental.
According to Charlie Duke thisis who I get it from, it's from
an actual Apollo astronaut hesaid that that was very
instrumental in getting theAmerican taxpayer to go.

(29:52):
I'm in Space, is it man?
Space is the place.
Let's do this.
And it wasn't like let's beatthe Russians, it was like no
space is possible, let's do this.
And so Walt kind of got intothat push and I don't know if it
was a quick decision when hewas planning out the park.

(30:13):
But even when you look at theearly Herb Ryman drawings of the
park that he was sketching outand drinking tons of coffee over
a weekend, tomorrowland hasjust like a rocket and a couple
little things like a littlething here.
And then Fantasyland.
It's amazing.
It's full of magic andadventure.
A little rocket here, andTomorrowland became like this

(30:36):
afterthought.
But he said we're going to have.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
Tomorrowland.
I swear to God, one of thethings that's so interesting
about that early Tomorrowland isprobably all the intelligent
and urbane people in this roomknow this.
They weren't intending to openTomorrowland with the rest of
the park originally.
Part of that was they hadstarted building on it and they
got really behind.

(30:59):
Part of the reason they gotbehind was this guy, gabriel
Scognamillo.
Yep, do you know who GabrielScognamillo is?
No, no, okay.

Speaker 5 (31:11):
But you do.

Speaker 4 (31:12):
Educate me.
I like that.
You pretended that was good.
Does anyone know who GabrielScognamillo is?
Gabriel Scognamillo was a filmdesigner, and he had at that
point, designed the robot forTobor the Great and also the TV
series spinoff of that moviecalled here Comes Tobor.

(31:34):
I swear to God, I'm not makingthat up.
Wow, here Comes Tobor.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
We're going to have a clip on that in the show.
It'll be great.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
He also art directed a movie.
I really love the Seven Facesof Dr Lau.
Oh yeah, that's a good one.
Yeah.
And so he was the guy that Waltpulled in to start designing
Tomorrowland.
He didn't know much about thedesign of physical spaces.
He had a great eye and heclearly was inspired by the

(32:02):
Googie architecture that wasstarting to go up around him in
the Los Angeles area, everywhereyou know, sweeping fins and
starbursts and stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (32:10):
Okay so pause for just a second.
Sweeping fins and starburstsand stuff like that.
Okay so pause for just a second.
Googie, or Goo-gee as somepeople refer to it is named
after a restaurant calledGoo-gee's that started off with
that style of architecture andwhen you think for those who are
listening at home, when youthink Jetsons, with the sweeping
lines, the very specific colorsof teal, very specific yellows

(32:33):
and blues, that is Gucci and itlasts for a very short space of
time, but it's very, verypowerful and very, very dynamic
and very Los Angeles.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and it is very much
the room that we're in right now.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
Oh yeah, we are surrounded by Gucci.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
Right now, the Howard Johnson suite of the retro
future, inspired by the MonsantoHouse of the Future.
Nailed it yes.
So that was why it got so farbehind was that Skogndemill just

(33:13):
didn't know how to design areal space, and so they used a
lot of his drawings.
But Herb Ryman came in towardsthe end and started cleaning
stuff up, especially when Waltsaid at the last minute change
my mind, we're going to open itanyway.

Speaker 5 (33:28):
In six months.

Speaker 4 (33:29):
Yeah, six months.
Well, the whole park was a yearI know.

Speaker 5 (33:36):
I mean that's insane to me.
But the rest of the park, Imean they had.
You know, here's theFantasyland crew, here's the
people who are going to bemoving all the orange groves,
here's, you know, theAdventureland crew.
And then they would stop allthe people working on
Tomorrowland.
Just stop, Just leave it there.
Yeah, no, never mind, we got todo it in six months.
What Do what?
In six months, I don't know.
Put something in there, it'ssomething for tomorrow.
Yeah, what?

(33:56):
And that's how it felt.
It was like they were literallylike panicking, like we could
put this in here, we could putthat in there.
I don't actually know if that'shistorically accurate, but
that's certainly how it feelsretrospectively, yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
But they ended up opening up Tomorrowland and it
was a moderate success comparedto the rest of the park.
Right when Tomorrowland startsto become really interesting is
as we move into the 60s, as tothe 60s, as we bring online the
monorail, as we you knoweveryone, of course the beloved

(34:38):
Viewliner, yeah.

Speaker 5 (34:40):
Well, in 1955, let's— Nobody remembers the Viewliner.
Listen to that.
Yeah, let's actually like talk.
So 55, when the park opens, itopens with Autopia.
Thank you, bob Gurr.
The Space Station X-1.
Yeah, when the park opens, itopens with Autopia.
Thank you, Bob.
Gurr, the Space Station X-1.
Yeah, and the Space Station X-1is a bizarre attraction because

(35:02):
all it is is like check out theview and what it is.
It's called a.
It's a type of attraction.
So here's Peter's very old deepdive.
It is a type of attraction.
So here's, here's Peter's veryold deep dive.
Um, it is a type of attractioncalled a cyclorama, and a
cyclorama goes back to the 1800sSome even say it goes back to
the 1700s and what it is?

(35:23):
It's a giant room.
There's there's still a coupleof them, um, in the South, like
a confederama and so forth, andwhat it is?
It Like Confederama and soforth, and what it is?
It's a giant reverse dome.
So, rather than the dome goingoverhead, it goes under you and
you enter and there's a platformthat you walk around and you
look down at this reverse domeand there's some sort of

(35:43):
landscape with a paintedbackdrop that goes all the way
around you 365 degrees, and somesort of model, whether it's the
Grand Canyon or whether it'sthe Battle of Gettysburg or
whatever the cyclorama.
So Space Station X-1 is basedoff that.
Where you're in the spacestation, you're like, wow, look
at Earth from space and it'sthis blacklit model of Earth and

(36:05):
the space station is this greathot dog cylinder painted red
that you're supposed to bestanding in.
And my favorite thing about itare the posters, the train
posters with the family.
Wow, son, look at the planet.
Earth below it we're on SpaceStation X-1.
Where's that?
I don't know, but it's cool.
So that's Space Station X-1.

(36:27):
You had Autopia.
We had the Monsanto Hall ofChemistry, yeah, and we also had
Dutch boyanto Hall of Chemistry, yeah, yeah.
And we also had Dutch Boy LeadPaint yes, to show off like the
world of color.
Yeah, sponsored by Dutch Boy,specifically Dutch Boy Lead
Paint.
So we had all these sponsorsand I make the argument too,

(36:51):
like Early Tomorrowland is kindof like this bizarre cyclical
argument of hey, let's talkabout how great progress is with
the use of very toxic elementsAluminum, lead paint, all the
chemicals of Monsanto and sothat way, we're going to invest

(37:12):
in pharmaceuticals.
Like this is when conspiracytheory really comes.
So, that way, when people havesome sort of carcinoma from this
stuff, because of how cool itis, we'll make a mint.
Yeah, awkward, yeah, awkward.
Thank you very much, disney.
So yeah, and then in 56, theywent right away, they added the

(37:34):
Skyway, the aerial gondola whichconnected Tomorrowland with
Fantasyland, going from oneplace to another.
And now we get to the goodstuff.
Yeah, the 1960s.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
Yeah, and you know, our last episode actually we did
not the last of the previousones, we did the story of the
guy that invented and flew therocket belt over Tomorrowland.
It's one of the most harrowingstories you will ever hear.
There's kidnapping, there'smurder.
Yes, I'm not kidding.
It's amazing.

(38:07):
It makes Pulp.

Speaker 5 (38:08):
Fiction.
Look like nothing.
I went into this completelyblind and he told me this story.
I went you have got to bekidding me.
It was crazy.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
But what's interesting is the rocket pack
or the rocket belt flyer guyflew a couple of times in 1966
before they closed downTomorrowland and then
inaugurated new Tomorrowland in1967 with, I believe, his last
flight at Disneyland, though hemade a couple at Disney World

(38:38):
after that.
Yes, he did.
Yes, if I remember correctly,and it's that new Tomorrowland
in 67 that we're reallyinterested in.
Yeah, that's the one that tiesinto the Magic Highways,
transportation stuff.
That's where you're suddenlywalking in and everything's
moving.
Everything you look at is inmotion.

(38:59):
There's monorails, there'speople movers, there's autopias,
there's submarines.
Some of this stuff came in the50s, but a lot of it came out of
the um 64, world's fair.

Speaker 5 (39:12):
Which was not a World's Fair.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
It was not a World's Fair actually.
Do you folks know this?
It was actually an unsanctionedWorld's Fair because Robert
Moses didn't want to adhere to alot of the rules of having a
World's Fair.
You were required to give acertain amount of free space to
nations.
He was refusing to do that.
It had to be kept within a year.

(39:35):
He refused to do that, and sothe Bureau of International, the
BIA, refused to sanction it,and so that's why you saw almost
no Western European nations inthe 64 New York World's Fair.
Yep, but Yep, but yes, I wantto kind of stop here and I want

(40:00):
to talk about a differentWorld's Fair in 1964.
Yeah, look at the look onPete's face.
So often the New York World'sFair in 64 is called the Bandit
Fair because it wasn'tsanctioned.
He wasn't supposed to do it.
There's another one that'scalled the Ghost Fair because it

(40:21):
never got made.
The alternate fair was inWashington DC and it was to be
designed by an architect calledVictor Gruen.
Victor Gruen is primarily knownas the inventor of the modern
American mall, a thing that hehated being known as.

(40:42):
He just loathed it.
But we wouldn't have Dawn ofthe Dead without it.
That's right.
So a life well spent.
But the interesting thing aboutVictor Gruen, the interesting
thing about that World Fair, isthat Gruen knew about Walt
Disney and Walt Disney knewabout Victor Gruen and they were
both very interested in eachother.

(41:03):
There's no evidence that theyever met but after Disney died,
when they did a catalog of allof the books on his shelf, he
had one book on urban planningand it was by Victor Gruen.
There was no others and youknow Disney had done some urban

(41:23):
planning.
It's across the street, you cansee it from here but he was
very interested in Victor Gruen.
Gruen had also written aboutDisneyland and said that he was
deeply impressed by it as a featof urban planning and deeply
distressed by what had happenedaround it, including where we're

(41:44):
sitting right now, which is howAnaheim kind of grew
chaotically around thisbeautifully planned city.

Speaker 5 (41:51):
Howard Johnson.
I hate Howard.

Speaker 4 (41:52):
Johnson Now now, oh okay, they're nice people.
Mildly irritated, gruen wroteabout several things that Disney
was going to soon implement.
Yeah, gruen believed in thisidea of cellular communities,
which basically meant you had abunch of pieces that had to all

(42:13):
be healthy to add up to a wholeworking community.
So he thought that Disneylandwas a pretty good example of
that and they were going to gofarther with it.
He thought this idea of havingsort of singular utilities and
resources kept kind of backstageof the area, but functioning at

(42:36):
peak efficiency was going to bea sort of cellular base and
then all of the components weregoing to feed into each other to
form a sort of unified whole,kind of whole body urban area.
You know how they would achievethat.

Speaker 6 (42:52):
Hmm, magnification, magnification achieve that
Magnification, magnification.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
Magnification.
He also another thing he hadwritten about before 1967 was
this idea of he believedpedestrian traffic and public
transportation.
He hated cars, as did Walt.
He believed there should bemultiple varying types of public
transportation and they shouldnot go on the same paths and
they should be disconnected fromeach other, which is exactly

(43:20):
what New Tomorrowland did.
You had the monorail coming inone way, the people mover going
another way, the submarinesgoing another way, the Autopia
going another way.
They all took on differentspace but they were still
unified.
Some of them went through otherthings, some of them unified it
as a whole.

(43:40):
The other thing that Gruen wroteabout and I found this really
interesting it doesn't apply somuch to Tomorrowland, but it
absolutely applies to WaltDisney World.
Yeah, when he was going tobuild the Washington DC 1964
World's Fair, he was going tobuild a layer of utility floor
and then put the actual visiblepublic floor on top of it.

(44:04):
He basically predicted theutilidors from Disney World and
it's fairly clear that theDisney planners took it directly
from there.
Interesting.
So Gruen's super interestingand he leads directly into this
1967 Tomorrowland, which is, tomy mind, the platonic
Tomorrowland.
That's like 67, 69.

(44:27):
That's the perfect Tomorrowland, and if we could have Space
Mountain in there I'd be alittle bit happier.
But otherwise I think thatthat's when it was the progress
that Walt was trying to showRight.

Speaker 5 (44:44):
Yeah, I mean, you have the Carousel of Progress,
you have the submarine ride infull fledge.
Can I make a quick note aboutthe submarine ride, would you?
I would love to.
That's why I asked.
Be my guest, Okay so quicklittle thing about the submarine
ride.
We all know the submarine rideat Disneyland.
Sitting in this giant tube,looking at the little window and

(45:10):
leaning over and the kid's nextto you breathing over your
shoulder and get out of here,kid, and the mermaids with their
hair falling off the wholething, that ride design has a
lot to do with the actualsurvival of Disneyland, more so
than we think.
More so than we think.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
Pete and I want to thank everybody that came out to
the Howard Johnson Suite of theRetro Future and participated
in this podcast with us.
It just means so much.
As I told Paul Barry, our host,we just like talking to people
who love this stuff and thispodcast is our contribution to
the conversation.
We met so many nice people,many with podcasts of their own,

(45:56):
and we wanted to make sure youknew where to find them so you
could listen to their wonderfulshows.
Of course there's our host,paul Barry, a window to the
magic.
His website iswindowtothemagiccom.
You can find him and all theseother podcasts any place that
you pick up podcasts Spotify,apple, whatever you use.
In many ways, I think all of usthere are just children of Paul

(46:20):
.
We met Tracy and Scott fromDisney Indiana.
They're super nice folks.
I was listening to theirpodcast today and just enjoying
it.
They are at all one word,disneyindianacom.
We met Clinton from ComedyForecast.
That's Comedy4Castcom, and alsothe Topic is Trek, which is

(46:42):
wwwTheTopicIsTrekcom.
That's all one word.
We met Tony from the Above theFirehouse podcast.
He's atwwwAboveethefirehousecom.
These are all great shows.
You should really go out andgive them a listen.
Also, quick shout out to ourintrepid and brilliant travel
agent, jill Romney of Touringand Cruises.

(47:05):
She never fails us, no matterhow crazy of a plan we bring to
her and we brought her somedoozies.
Jill can help you book anyDisney or cruise vacation you
might be dreaming of.
So get in touch atjillattouringandcruisescom.
That's touring and cruises.
All one word Let her know wesent you.
And finally, a big thank you tomy wife, heather, who found the

(47:27):
stickers, suggested the automatand helped put this trip
together.
We couldn't have done itwithout her.

Speaker 5 (47:32):
The automat and helped put this trip together.
We couldn't have done itwithout her.
In 1953, they began productionat Walt Disney Studios on 20,000
Leagues Under the Sea, with thedesigns of the Nautilus by
Harper Goff.

Speaker 4 (47:45):
You can see his cool wooden models of that at the
Disney Family Museum in SanFrancisco.
It's really neat.

Speaker 5 (47:51):
I mean, I love Harper Goff's kind of Victorian
futurism designs, back to JulesVerne.
But if that film had flopped,walt and Roy had put everything
into it.
In 2011, I curated the sameyear that I did the NASA exhibit
I did a second exhibit calledSteampunk History Beyond

(48:12):
Imagination at the Museo justdown the street here in downtown
Anaheim and it was all aboutlook at this neat steampunk art.
And then I said no, we have totalk about the history and
upstairs.
We had actually collaboratedwith the Walt Disney Company and
I'm going to do a little namedroppy here.
Thanks to Kevin Kidney and JodyDaly, who helped me out with a

(48:37):
lot of archival stuff.
We put that they.
They helped me out tremendouslywith that exhibit.
Thank you, kevin and Jody.
We put together this wholesection about 20,000 leagues
under the sea and we were reallyworried that the Disney
corporation was going to bust usfor having so much memorabilia
from the movie.
The head of the Disneylandcorporation came to it in the
middle of the night in tow withKevin and Jody.
They had gone to the AnaheimBrewery, got them schnockered on

(49:00):
a couple of growlers and youknow Taco Tuesday and then
brought them over going.
Hey, let's show Pete's work.
Pete's a really nice guy fromNorthern California.
He's doing this thing and helooked at it and he goes me and
he walks out and I went oh no,the next day we get this
official lawyer shows up with aletter and he goes.
That's for you, mr Overstreet,thank you very much.

(49:20):
And it basically said you canuse anything 20,000 leagues in
perpetuity.
Wow, because they were soimpressed on the story that we
told, which was I would make theargument that that movie
actually made Anaheim what it istoday, love it or hate it.
Because if that movie hadfailed at the box office and

(49:42):
with all of the sunset squidincident of making this you know
, poor Brogy, making this squid,that doesn't quite work.
Well, harper Goff coming in andsaving the day by making the
actual squid sequence that weknow and love from the film If
that movie had actually failed,the park wouldn't exist, because
they had mortgaged everythingagainst that movie in order to
make it work, because it doubledthe budget.

(50:03):
The Sunset Squid doubled thebudget.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
And ironically, it's a movie directed by the son of
his greatest competitor.
The son of Max Fleischerdirected that movie, richard.

Speaker 5 (50:13):
Fleischer, richard Fleischer, richard Fleischer,
yeah, who also directed theVikings with Ernest Borgnine and
Kirk Douglas and Conan theDestroyer.

Speaker 7 (50:22):
That was his last film.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
Wait, I have to throw in my quick Richard and Max
Fleischer story.
Richard Fleischer was directing20,000 Leagues and Max had.
You know the Fleischer brothershad been driven out of business
at that point.
They kind of got screwed over.

Speaker 5 (50:38):
Well, I mean Max referred to Walt Disney as quote
, that son of a bitch.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
Well, Walt wasn't the problem ultimately?
No, he wasn't.
Like they moved to.
Florida and they got taken over.
But Max had retired and RichardFleischer asked Walt at some
point.
He said could my dad come seethe studio?
Could Max come see the studio?
And Walt said absolutely, havehim come by this Saturday.

(51:05):
And Richard said great.
So they flew Max in from NewYork, I believe, is where he'd
moved back to.
They flew Max Inn.
But what Walt did in theinterim time he went and found
every single living animatorthat had worked for the
Fleischer Studios and flew themin to the Disney Studios so that

(51:28):
when Max Fleischer showed up itwas everyone he had worked with
that they could get a hold of.
It was like this massivehomecoming of the Fleischer
studios which is actually reallysweet.
Yeah, really sweet, reallyreally sweet.
I think it's so moving and itjust shows the heart of the guy
Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (51:47):
So the ride, the submarine ride, comes out of the
fact that while they were in 55trying to put anything in there
, walt said well, let's just doa 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
exhibit.
Let's take all the movie setsand the props and put them in
and we'll have them give a tour.
And it's like this circulartour you walk around a tank of

(52:09):
the giant squid.
The problem is at the end ofthe production of the film they
had destroyed most of the sets.
They were all broken up, sosome of the fiberglass pieces
had to get reestablished.
They had to find the organbecause they hadn't started
working on the Haunted Mansionyet.
So the organ was sitting insomebody's basement and they had
to find all these bits andpieces and reconstruct.
So it was a lot more work thanWalt first thought.

(52:31):
So it was a lot more work thanWalt first thought.
But it was only until laterthat we got the submarine ride
and I'm sure we'll do a fullepisode on it.
But I want to do a quick deepdive on it because the origin of
that ride goes back to ConeyIsland in the turn of the
century Westinghouse Corporationyou want to talk about like
into the future, they weregetting into electric

(52:53):
refrigeration.
And so in Coney Island they puttogether a ride that was 20,000
leagues under the sea, basedoff of the book by Jules Verne,
and you got into these tubes.
There were two tubes on eitherside of an arm with a kind of
like a screw right in the middleof it with gears on it and a
giant cyclorama of all thesedifferent levels of the ocean.

(53:15):
And there were these aircompressors that would blow
bubbles in front of the screen,very much like the ride that we
have now, except you're notactually submerged, but you sit
on these little cramped littlethings, looking at these portals
, saying, wow, we're going Now,we're going super deep, but
you're going upward.
And then you would reach acertain point and then the

(53:37):
windows would pop open and thesides would open up.
Here we are in the arctic, andbecause it was westinghouse,
they had refrigerated this hugetrough above everything and they
had live penguins, a polar andInuits in canoes.
Hi, welcome to the Arctic.
And you're like what?

(53:58):
And then it would go around ina circle and you'd see this
whole thing and then it wouldstart going back down again.
You'd go in the oppositedirection.
So it was built like twospirals going up, so it was a
different journey, and someonewould narrate it as you're going
in these spirals, and thatlasted in Luna Park until 1932,
when they finally shut it down.
Wow, it was crazy, wow.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
So yeah, that ride as much as we love to say, yep,
it's really innovative.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
it's not that new, but it's wonderful.

Speaker 5 (54:25):
But it's wonderful and it is a staple of
Tomorrowland and, like you said,it's about all the
transportation, of moving in andout of each other, with Autopia
going over and around in themonorail, going over the
submarines.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
You know what?
One of the reasons that themonorail was fairly cheap to
build.
I mean it wasn't cheap, but itwas cheaper Right, the Imagineer
Lee Adams was Sorry, I'mobsessed with Imagineer Lee
Adams.
He went there.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
He found a way to work Lee Adams into this episode
.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
We can talk about it after the episode.
He was an ex-Westinghouse man,which is why I remembered this.
And two things Pete gets fed upwith me talking about is
Imagineer Lee Adams and the flowof water dark water system
flowing through Disneyland.

Speaker 5 (55:15):
Now, to be fair, I'm not sick of the dark water thing
.
Your family hates it.

Speaker 4 (55:18):
That's right.
My kid actually hit me in thearm today.

Speaker 7 (55:21):
Stop doing, it Stop doing it.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
But Lee Adams was a Westinghouse man and could get
cheap Westinghouse components,which helped them make the
monorails for cheaper.

Speaker 5 (55:29):
Yeah, and of course we also have that fabulous mural
by Mary.

Speaker 4 (55:35):
Blair.
Yeah Well, so this isinteresting.
I want to take a pause here.
We should probably wrap up thissection in about 10 minutes, so
everyone be thinking about whatyou would do to plus up today's
Tomorrowland.
Yeah, because we're going tostart asking people.
Yeah.
We're not going to point at youand do it.
That's mean.

Speaker 7 (55:52):
You do it.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
But I suspect you'll have ideas, yeah.

Speaker 5 (55:56):
And it could be anything, because, as our slogan
goes at the beginning of theshow, we plus things up without
any consideration of safetybudget.

Speaker 4 (56:05):
Yeah, any, sort of viability.
We don't care.

Speaker 5 (56:07):
We don't care.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
Like, if you could do anything, what would you do to
tomorrowland?
Yeah, my, my, my last plus upwas to turn the old conan stage
show into a giant jerry andersonsuper marionation show.
So if that gives you anyperspective, how much range you
have.
The six foot puppets yeah,amazing.
But the mary blair portraits,um which.
It is a crime that those gotcovered up and damaged.

Speaker 5 (56:31):
Thank you, clap.
We really want to clap.
I love Mary Blair.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
New Mary Blair exhibit at the Disney Family
Museum starting in like twoweeks.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
I grew up next to her old homestead, by the way, in
Morgan Hill, that's right.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
But the reason that those murals are interested
aside from the fact that it's amajor mural by a major American
artist is that one of the thingsthat they kind of got wrong in
Magic Highways USA was that theybased a lot of the technologies
on the fact that we would havecompletely free, sustainable,

(57:08):
redundant energy, which we don't.
And so it's very interestingthat when they open New
Tomorrowland, you have thesemassive Mary Blair murals that
are about sustainable energy.
They're about water flow,they're solar.
You can see steam involved onthem and I don't know how

(57:31):
connected that was in anybody'shead, but I think it's really
interesting.
It's almost like them saying wealmost got there, but here's an
aspirational view of how wecould take it the next step.

Speaker 5 (57:42):
And I find it weird, like in 1998, that's when the
new, new Tomorrowland, when wefinally get the Orbitron and
this is Tony Baxter's big pushfor Tomorrowland of the kind of
semi-steampunk 90s aesthetic ofall the copper and the I see you
smiling delightfully.
We had the rocket racer, we hadthe rocket rods, the whole

(58:04):
thing.
Or as Bob Gurr likes to callthe rocket rods, the world's
greatest plant trough.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
I think he called the track the world's most
expensive leaf catcher when wesaw it.

Speaker 5 (58:17):
Yeah it was crazy.
So, but in 1998, that wasactually a very fascinating time
to see that, because especiallyfor those of us who, like,
we're all pretty close to thesame generation here and we're
growing up, it's like IndianaJones opens up yay,
adventureland's all revitalized.
That looks great.
Now we're going to do the samething to tomorrowland and

(58:39):
everybody went yeah, and we gotthere was like, oh, okay, okay,
let's see if this works.
Wait, you got rid of the peoplemover.
You want us to get into thesebird cages that are like
tricycles and they make you dothis and you're zipping around
on the same track.
It's like wait, you took outTron.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
The speed tunnel.

Speaker 5 (58:58):
Yeah, the speed tunnel you have entered into the
master control program.
Yeah, yeah, they got rid of allthat, and bit by bit.
Everything was soover-engineered Even Bob says it
, it was so over-engineered,even Bob says it, it was so
over-engineered.
This would start to break down.
That would start to break downand the kinetic nature of

(59:21):
Tomorrowland in the 90s into the2000s starts to just come dead.
And that, to me, is a crime.

Speaker 4 (59:29):
We walked through there today and the thing that
pete said and it was absolutelytrue is you'd look up and
nothing's moving, nothing.
And you know it used to be whenthe the rocket jets were on top
of the people mover track, likeit was this big spinning moving
thing.
People movers were coming byand it's just all static now.
And I I love star wars just asmuch as the next guy.

(59:53):
I love Galaxy's Edge, though Iwould burn it down to have the
people move her back, but Idon't want Star Tours there and
this may be.
Oh, I see some people thatagree with me.

Speaker 5 (01:00:07):
I don't want it gone, I just want it moved.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Move it over to Batuu, yeah,and that's fine.

Speaker 5 (01:00:13):
Yeah, totally fine, believe me, because they've got
a lot of real estate there.

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 10 (01:00:19):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (01:00:19):
Yes, there's a comment here.

Speaker 10 (01:00:20):
They can even not just move Star Tours to Batuu.
They can have it be like theentrance to Batuu, yeah Like a
short film, because one of yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
I think that's brilliant.

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
That's an amazing yes round of applause.

Speaker 10 (01:00:49):
That's a great one.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
That was a great one, dude.
I think that well, and we'llget to this in our plus ups, but
right now it is this oddmishmash of space fantasy and
science fiction.
And, my God, why can't they doanything with the Carousel of
Progress building?
It's just nothing.
Now.
I think there's a lounge upthere now, is that right?

(01:01:12):
There's also a store.
There's just nothing.
Now.
I think there's a lounge upthere now, is that right?
There's a store.
Yeah, okay, You're so weird.
The rocket is hawking pizza.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
And, of course, autopia.
As much as I love it, it'sstill Although, bob, when we
went and saw Bob, we saw him atthe symposium over at Garner
Holt and he was like and they'regonna make it electric, it's
gonna be great, I can't waithe's super into it.
He's totally into it.
He's just bouncing in his seatin his giant bright colored

(01:01:45):
shoes.
Yes, and everybody just went.
Yay, bob yeah.
I'm humoring him because wewere all feeling the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
It was like yes, please I get to sit in a dune
buggy with Bob Gurr Ooh.

Speaker 5 (01:01:57):
Yeah, it was cool.
I got a picture of it.
All I got to do was go to thebathroom next to Maynard.
I had to wear the napkin on myhead and everything.
I had to wear the napkin on myhead and everything.
So now we've reached a pointwhere we've kind of given you

(01:02:22):
the background, the backstory ofthe glory days of Tomorrowland,
and kind of given you a brieflittle timeline.
But now we've reached the partof the show where Kelly and I
usually do a plus-up, but thistime we're not doing it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
I ain't doing it.
I'm also doing one, but mine'snot the important one.

Speaker 5 (01:02:35):
No, it is not.
So I'm going to be themoderator tonight and I'm going
to start passing the mic around,because we're going to go to
our lovely studio audience herein our suite who've been very
gracious in staying awake withus, yeah and we're going to ask
them to give us their plus-upsof Tomorrowland.
So the question would be whatwould you do with Tomorrowland

(01:02:56):
now?
To restore it to its formerglory or anything?
What would you do?
Yeah, you got one.
Okay, hold on a second.
I'm going to get up here and getthe mic here.
Start off by telling us yourname and then give us your plus
up.

Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
Yeah, and if you've got a podcast or anything,
please tell us that too.

Speaker 12 (01:03:20):
Yeah, plug name and then give us your plus.
Yeah, and if you've got apodcast or anything, please tell
us that too.
Yeah, plug away.
Yeah, my name is tiffany and Iactually feel like they missed
the mark when they came out withthe um the movie tomorrowland
and they should have broughtback the people mover.
Of course.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
That's number one you have to have the people mover.

Speaker 12 (01:03:30):
We need to get rid of Buzz Lightyear.
It could go over to DCA as well, because I do like Buzz
Lightyear, but it needs to goover to DCA.
Get rid of Star Tours and theycould have done so much with the
movie Tomorrowland.
I agree.
Yeah.
Awesome movie and so much couldbe done.

Speaker 4 (01:03:52):
Hey Pete, can you give her a sticker?

Speaker 5 (01:03:54):
Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
Cool stickers for anyone who has a plus up.

Speaker 5 (01:03:58):
There you go.
Who's next?
Another plus up Okay.

Speaker 8 (01:04:04):
Hi Clinton, two podcasts, comedy Forecast, and
the topic is Trek Awesome Twothings.
Well, one thing I've talkedabout for ages that you always
hear about the fact that this ismore practical, but still the
concept that the people whotrack cracked damage from rocket
rods.
Yeah.
I've always thought but thetrack is there and you can put

(01:04:27):
things on that don't take weight, that still give you motion.
Because I thought when Troncame out, if you had light
cycles going around that trackyou would have gotten motion.
You would have gotten light.
Uh, yeah, when star, star warsand star tours is there, have
different bots or somethinggoing, anything to get motion on
that track would be one thing,yeah, and the second thing is

(01:04:50):
move star tours out of there andthe amount of amazing things
that actually now happen inscience and space.
You take that technology andyou say, okay, we're going to
actually make something veryinteresting, a fun ride.
That's changeable as time goeson because it's just video of

(01:05:12):
what is actually happening inspace in science.
Think about a combination ofBill Nye and Neil deGrasse Tyson
talking excitedly about thefuture.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:05:24):
What's happening.

Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
That's a great one Absolutely Thank you.
Yeah, I love getting some realscience back in there, right,
absolutely Thank you who's next?

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
Yeah, I love getting some real science back in there,
right.

Speaker 5 (01:05:38):
Except for Neil deGrasse Tyson.
He will actually disprove theexistence of Disneyland.
Anybody else who's got a plusYay Name and plug your podcast
please.

Speaker 11 (01:05:51):
This is Tracy from the Disney Indiana podcast and I
would bring back the Skyway.
Oh, yeah, yeah good call thatwould give us the kinetic
movement.
That would give us another wayto get across the park.

Speaker 5 (01:06:05):
Yeah, and it would sell more hats.
Thank you, yeah, that's great.
Thank you, yeah, that's great,thank you.

Speaker 10 (01:06:17):
Okay Now the intervention is completely
pretty much unused now and it,in my opinion, has had two
really good things in itCarousel of Progress and the
Intervention's Dream Home.
The Dream Home was a greatplace to just chill and relax,

(01:06:41):
so it'd be cool if they couldbring both those back.
Have Carousel of Progress, beon the first floor and then
bring back the old finale scenewhere you went up, and then it
will be into the dream home thefamily could be like.

(01:07:02):
We would now like to invite youinto our home of the future.

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
Yeah, oh, that's great, thank you.
Anybody else?

Speaker 8 (01:07:14):
Oh, come on, All right, here we go.
He's like me Go for it.

Speaker 6 (01:07:20):
My name is Scott Morris.
I'm the co-host of the Disneyand Indiana podcast with my wife
and one thing I thought of thatmight actually kill two birds
with one stone.
Most of the people in thiscountry don't quite understand
how solutions to like wind power, solar power or that kind of

(01:07:41):
stuff.
So if we electrified some ofthe Topia or a future people
mover, and then the town?
I'm at that.
We have windmills in the townthat the local bus uses to
create power for their buses.
Oh, cool.
So what if we put some windmillsin there?

(01:08:04):
Have them running.
There's your movement.
Yes, more movement, nice,windmills in there, have them
running.
There's your movement.
Yes, more movement nice.
And does the.
And you all show, showeverybody that the power from
this windmill is powering atopia or is powering the, these
different rides and how it worksyeah, I love that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
That's a great one that's an elegant thank you,
yeah, right, yeah, oh, we gotanother one.
That's a great one, that's anelegant solution.

Speaker 11 (01:08:29):
Thank you, yeah, great, yeah, oh, we got another
one.
This is Tracy.
Again.
To build on what Scott was justsaying about alternate power
sources, why not do solar panelsover the parking lots?
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:08:46):
Or the parking garages.
Yeah Again, it's almost ano-brainer, isn't it?
I mean, they are doing that atLegoland already.
I'm into it.
I'm into it, all right.

Speaker 5 (01:09:06):
You want a second one , anybody else, this is a
plus-up.
All right, kelly.

Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
All right, it's time for yours.
Is it me?
I see some people back therekind of going eh eh eh, maybe,
maybe, eh, maybe.

Speaker 5 (01:09:19):
Be bold, you first, and then you.

Speaker 7 (01:09:22):
No.
Oh are you back here?
Maybe you might have a littlebit of an idea All right, beer
on beer.

Speaker 5 (01:09:28):
Let's hear it.

Speaker 9 (01:09:30):
One thing growing up as a kid and I remember it, by
the way, this is Tony from theAbove the Firehouse podcast yeah
, yes and going in and there wasalways something that Walt
liked to do was teach peoplesomething.
Yeah.
Besides the story, maybe what Iwould like to do is put the

(01:09:50):
rocket rods back on top, or thepeople mover station was, so you
can go back up that elevatorlike the astronauts would do to
kind of experience that back inthe days you know, and just, uh,
maybe add another attractionthat would teach people stuff
like exploration of space, wherethey can kind of simulate that
themselves.
I love that.
That's awesome.
Thank you so much, we'll trade.

Speaker 5 (01:10:12):
Actually.
Well, you got it.
Go ahead, because you hadanother one that you wanted to
see.
No, you're like.
No, I got something.
All right, let's do our lastone here.
Yep, go ahead one more time.

Speaker 10 (01:10:22):
Now this is kind of like a super blue sky idea.
Likey will never work or belogistically possible.
That's exactly what we're allabout.

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
Yeah go for it.

Speaker 10 (01:10:35):
This is a big blue sky, one Connecting energy back
to the people mover tracks andbe kind of like a
choose-your-own adventureversion of the people mover
where, instead of just likepassing by the attractions and
hearing like a quick snip orjust seeing a little brief, you
could be like hmm, I really wantto get a little bit more of a

(01:11:00):
taste and you can like yeah dolike a selection and, like it
will like, take you onto thetrack and you you'll either go
through the ride or get a littlebit more of a snippet.

Speaker 4 (01:11:13):
That's awesome.
So you'd be on a sort of peoplemover vehicle and then all of a
sudden you'd be on SpaceMountain.
I like that.
People are just like holy crap.

Speaker 5 (01:11:24):
That reminds me a little bit about when I used to
actually travel throughMonsonsanto's Journey to Inner
Space or like Star Tours orsomething like that.
Yeah, that type of energy, yeah.
It's pretty great.
All right, now I guess we gotto wrap up.
Nice job.
Give him a round of applause.
Give him a round of applausehere, all right.
So, kelly, let's do yours.
All right, what is your?

Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
plus-out tomorrow.
All right, so here's myplus-out.
I even wrote it down.
I wrote a little speech I don'tcome to this.
Just a few words.
I'd like to thank the Academyand Elvis.
So my idea is to do what I'mkind of calling the Tex Avery

(01:12:05):
slash, jetson, slash CliffordSimac version of Tomorrowland.
We get to have Dawes Butler inthere.
Oh, of course you got DawesButler in there.
Okay, go ahead First off, firstthing that has to happen.
Everything except SpaceMountain has to go.
Just it's gone.
Star Tours can go to Galaxy'sEdge.
So don't like, I love StarTours too.

(01:12:26):
I enjoy it.
Yep.
Then a lot of the space will befuturistic living spaces, like
places you can walk through,just like tons of weird gadgets.
You know, like in Batuu nowthey occasionally have the
little Huey, dewey and Louierobots, droids rocking around.
Bring some of those in but havethem like sweeping droids

(01:12:47):
following you around and doingcleaning stuff.
But have it be weird and kindof going wrong sometimes.
You can have like model homes,like the House of the Future,
the suite of which this is theretro of.

Speaker 5 (01:13:08):
Please don't make him say the whole thing again.

Speaker 4 (01:13:12):
Have we talked about the Howard Johnson's suite of
the retro future, inspired byMonsanto's House of the Future?
Did I get it?

Speaker 7 (01:13:24):
Nailed it yes.

Speaker 4 (01:13:30):
And so you can have homes like the House of the
Future.
But not only can you kind ofwalk through them, but you can
ride through them because we'rebringing the damn people mover
back.
Yeah, goodyear tires are goingto move us around some more.
Good year tires are going tomove us around some more.
You go through houses withridiculous labor-saving devices

(01:13:54):
just things that are funny.
You've probably seen thoseWarner Brothers or MGM cartoons
with houses of the future wherethings are going wrong and doors
shut when they're not supposedto and the oven bursts into
flames and then a little robotcomes and puts it out.
Stuff like that, but funny.

Speaker 5 (01:14:16):
It's not like HAL 2000.
No, I'm sorry.
Chip oh wait, but I'm gettingthere.
I'm sorry, billy, you only need40 tickets to live.

Speaker 4 (01:14:25):
What is this?

Speaker 5 (01:14:24):
a sea ticket to live.

Speaker 4 (01:14:27):
What is this?
A sea ticket, and for food youturn that whole pizza palace
area there.
You turn it into the world'scoolest automat.
So a beautiful, art deco,classic sort of streamlined
modern automat.

(01:14:48):
But here's the trick With theauto-mat you can, through a sort
of illusory trick, go to thebackstage area and see how the
food's being made.
But the food's all being madeby robotic arms and stuff like
that you can.

Speaker 5 (01:15:06):
I only see that from the people mover, though.

Speaker 4 (01:15:09):
Yes, oh, that would be cool, good idea.

Speaker 5 (01:15:11):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
So that's your behind thescenes like.
If you look to your right, youcan see the robotic chefs
working on your food for theautomata of the future yeah, you
see, like arms, like flippingpancakes and flipping flipping
burgers and like there's, youknow, an insane.

Speaker 4 (01:15:30):
there's an insane like rube goldberg device where
an egg comes down like 14 rampsand knocks over dominoes and
slants down and falls into anautomatic egg breaker and falls
onto a griddle which then tiltsand make it dumps perfectly
fried eggs onto plates that areon a conveyor belt that head
towards the automat.
Does somebody pour, mr T?

Speaker 5 (01:15:51):
cereal all over it.
Oh, for all you peewee fans outthere, crazy, crazy like
sandwich stacking machines.

Speaker 4 (01:16:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, stuff like that.
You end up with a giant Dagwoodthat no one would ever eat.
And then you have the featureattraction.
I'm bringing this back to RayBradbury.
We're going to he's laughing atme we're going to have the
there Will Come Soft Rains house.
Do you guys know this story?

(01:16:20):
Do you know?
The one person that did hadexactly the right reaction,
which was oh, I don't know if Iwant to do that.
And there Will Come Soft Rainsis a great Ray Bradbury story
about an automated house that iskind of running its routines
and running like audio tapes anddoing all these things, and

(01:16:42):
slowly you begin to realize thatnot only is no one in the house
, but there are no humans left.
It's really tragic.
Eventually the house burstsinto flames.
So this will be a fun ride.

Speaker 5 (01:16:56):
I thought you were going to go for the VELT.
Need a place to drop your kidsoff.
Bring them to the VELTattraction in.

Speaker 4 (01:17:03):
Tomorrowland.
You know, what's weird is theVELT almost feels too modern.
It does, yeah, but yeah.
So you get to go through a ride.
It'll be like the Tomorrowlandversion of the Haunted Mansion.
You're riding through a housethat's going wrong, it's
dissolving, it's breaking down,it's scary, like things are

(01:17:26):
being set on fire and you'reworried there's some threat
there, and it talks to youthrough these audio tapes in the
walls as you're going throughand sort of narrates the story,
much like the Haunted Mansion,but for Tomorrowland.
So it's kind of a massivethemed ride with a little bit of

(01:17:50):
thrill to it and somecomplexity, and so that's my
plus up for Tomorrowland.
Nice job, thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:18:00):
Thank you.
All right, am I going to do onenow?
Okay, are you Real quick?
Yeah, this one's actuallybuilding off of that last part
of yours actually.
Okay, are you Real quick?
Yeah, this one's actuallybuilding off of that last part
of yours actually.
Because my notion of it was toactually do a lot of this stuff
that we've all been talkingabout, like moving Star Tours
Just move it, you can do it.
Disney, you can move it.
Buzz Lightyear, same thing.

(01:18:22):
Take it to DCA, that's okay.
Yeah, good call, but making itactually a historical recreation
of the future, the way that itwas seen in 1967.
Yeah, so that way, when you arethere, it's like this was the
promise that we gave you.
This is the promise and youwanted this.

(01:18:42):
Yeah, what happened?
So let's bring it back.
Yeah, show some optimism andshow some optimism.
But it's like you found it.
We've lovingly recreated this,but, like you said, now we're
using technology that involvesyou into the other attractions
we have.
The PeopleMover would be back.

(01:19:03):
We would go to Mars again.
We would bring that attractionand make the journey to Mars be
a thing again.
Yeah, without Captain Eogesteering us there, but that's a
different episode, but thenotion would be that everything
just looks a little rusty, likeyou really have.

(01:19:26):
Like it's almost like mythought was like they buried the
old Tomorrowland and then,while fixing up the new, new
Tomorrowland, they went hey, weactually found all the people
moving cars.
Let's put them back and itbecomes like the promise of
tomorrow today.
Like that becomes the, thatbecomes the whole point.
The promise of tomorrow today.
Let's bring that promise back.

(01:19:46):
The promise of tomorrow today.
Let's bring that promise back.
And you're actually asking,through all the different
attractions and all of thedifferent storylines, you're
actually asking the audience toparticipate in revitalizing the
future, revitalizing the hope ofthe future, by looking at this
thing that we lost and say don'tyou remember how this was
important, this was to us askids?
Don't you remember howimportant that memory of
Tomorrowland is?

(01:20:07):
Only a memory, it's not theTomorrowland that you actually
see today, but yet you see it inyour head when you say
Tomorrowland For a lot of usthat are a little bit older than
1998, me we think of the 1967to 1998 or earlier versions of
Tomorrowland, not the currentversion of it, but add solar,

(01:20:31):
add the wind power.
It's like we're building uponthat promise and moving forward
literally from that point.
Yeah, we're not trying to dosomething different, we're
actually going to build uponthis and see where that takes us
, because you know what?

Speaker 4 (01:20:50):
They weren't 100% wrong, except for the lead paint
and the Monsanto chemistry andall that stuff.
Barring that, the Kaiser pig.

Speaker 5 (01:20:58):
Yeah, but that being said.

Speaker 4 (01:21:02):
I think for that you deserve a sticker.

Speaker 5 (01:21:04):
Oh, yay, I get a flying cheeseburger marijuana
boat.
This is awesome.
It's literally like a cruiserwith, like you know, treads.
It's like a yacht that's on theground for some reason.
It's awesome.
I love this.
It's crazy.
It's literally a boat on thefreeway.
That is the best ever so wehave reached the end of our show

(01:21:26):
today hey before we is oh, yes,yeah, oh, please, yeah, yeah,
one more while I appreciate thisis scott from the disney
indiana podcast.

Speaker 6 (01:21:35):
Again, while I appreciate all of the ideas and
everything that was talked about, and I don't want to be a
downer, yeah, but I don't thinkwe've really addressed the real
reason that I think personallythat Tomorrowland is a problem
is tomorrow actually comes andthings get outdated so quickly.

(01:21:59):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (01:22:00):
It's a great point.

Speaker 6 (01:22:01):
One of the things I like about your idea is showing
stuff how, in the 60s and 50s,that we thought the future was
going to be.
Maybe, not what it actuallybecame.
So maybe have Tomorrowland bethe land that never came.

Speaker 5 (01:22:23):
Yeah, yeah, the tomorrow that never was the
tomorrow.

Speaker 6 (01:22:25):
That never was, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:22:25):
The tomorrow that never was the tomorrow that
never was.

Speaker 4 (01:22:27):
And then maybe encourage people to say, hey, it
is actually okay to think aboutthe future optimistically.
And strive to some of theseideas, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:22:37):
That's marvelous.

Speaker 5 (01:22:38):
Thank you for that.
Yeah, thank you, great note.
Thank you so much.
That's fantastic.

Speaker 4 (01:22:43):
All right.
So before we close down, I justwant to thank and give another
round of applause to our friendPaul Berry from Window to the
Magic who invited us here.
Thank you so much for yourgenerosity and thank you all
friends.
It's been so nice to meet youand such a pleasure and honor to
be able to kind of do this infront of you.
We really appreciate you, Thankyou.

Speaker 5 (01:23:06):
Thank you for tolerating us.

Speaker 4 (01:23:08):
So until next time.
I'm Kelly McCubbin and I'mPeter Overstreet, and this is
the Lowdown on the Plus Up.
Ayo, thanks everybody, thankyou.

(01:23:33):
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of the Lowdown on the
Plus Up.
If you have, please tell yourfriends where you found us, and
if you haven't, we can pretendthis never happened and need not
speak of it again.
For a lot more thoughts ontheme parks and related stuff,
check out my writing forBoardWalk at boardwalktimesnet.
Feel free to reach out to Peteand I on our Lowdown on the Plus

(01:23:53):
Up Facebook group or send us amessage directly at comments at
lowdown-plus-upcom.
We really want to hear abouthow you'd plus these attractions
up and read some of your ideason the show.
Plus these attractions up andread some of your ideas on the
show.
Our theme music is GoblinTinker Soldier Spy by Kevin
MacLeod at incompetechcom.

(01:24:14):
We'll have a new episode outreal soon.
Why?

Speaker 8 (01:24:46):
Because we like you, when your home seems duller,
spruce it up with color, withDutch Boy.
Paints when your home seemsnuller spruce it up with color,
with Dutch Boy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Paints when your home seems nuller.
See your Dutch Boy dealer foryears of beauty, use Dutch Boy
paints.

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