Ever wondered how to motivate a seemingly unmotivated child? Dr. Susan Thomas, accomplished school psychologist and parent, tackles this universal parenting challenge with refreshing honesty and practical wisdom. Drawing from decades of professional experience and personal parenting trials, she reveals that motivation isn't about finding the perfect reward—it's about discovering what genuinely resonates with your unique child.
The conversation takes a powerful turn as Dr. Thomas introduces her "AAA" method for handling peer mistreatment (gotta listen to hear it, hehe), and technology emerges as a central theme throughout the discussion, with Dr. Thomas identifying excessive screen time as one of the most significant challenges facing today's children.
The episode concludes with perhaps the most valuable parenting strategy of all—establishing trusted adults outside the immediate family who share your values and can serve as safe resources for your children when they find themselves in challenging situations. Subscribe now for more parenting insights that blend professional expertise with real-world application! And be sure to check out our website for handouts on the “AAA” method!
Please be sure to checkout our website for previous episodes, our psych-approved resource page, and connect with us on social media! All this and more at www.thelylaspodcast.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey folks, welcome back to the Lylas podcast and
our part two with Dr SusanThomas.
Now you'll get to hear theanswer to the question that was
posed in last week's episodeabout how to motivate a child
who just doesn't seem to haveany form of motivation.
But what do you do if you havea child who you know is clearly
(00:36):
not motivated?
Like you talked about how yourson was very social, your
daughter could, you know, kindof care less.
What if you have a child whothere's ended it, you know,
maybe their stepmom happens tobe a psychologist.
But what if there's nothing thatyou can literally and
behaviorally trained and youknow WVU and Marshall, but that
there's just not a reward or inusing those kind of terms of
(00:58):
punishment or a consequence thatis really motivating at the
needle one way or the other,that is really motivating at the
needle one way or the other,even whenever they're
behaviorally defined in bothsettings, like meetings with the
teachers, the parents, andthere's just very laissez-faire
in a way.
It's very you know anythingcould happen and it's all still
(01:18):
going to be okay.
What do you do?
I put you on the spot.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Can't wait to hear this answer.
I'm not a magician here now,but I will tell you a couple of
things we know about motivation,Okay, and and I have a I have a
dear friend that he's.
I mean, really y'all shouldhave had him on to talk to him,
because he's taught me most ofwhat I know about behavior.
But one of the things he'lltalk about we talk about
reinforcement, because that'swhat you're trying to do is
you're trying to reinforce toget the behavior that you want
(01:51):
to see.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
And first of all, I think as parents, we have to
stop a little bit and think isthis our definition that we have
of motivation, Right?
Or is this, you know, is thisright?
I think you have to ask thatquestion first, right, Right.
(02:17):
But then I would say, if wecan't find something that's
reinforcing and he said this tome a million times we hadn't
found the right thing.
We just hadn't found it yet.
And so we have to keep workingwith that child to find out what
will be reinforcing to thatchild.
But I think also, as parents,sometimes we have to let go of
things.
So and I'll use my own children.
(02:38):
So my daughter, who's anintrovert, was the overachiever,
never did anything wrong.
I bet maybe one time in herwhole career did I ever have to
say anything.
She took the AP classes.
She did all the things right,Right.
My son not so much, and it wasreally hard for me because I saw
(03:00):
him as not achieving his fullpotential.
I mean, I'm an educator, I knewwhat their, I knew what their
cognitive scores meant, Right.
And I looked at his and hersand I'm like he's
underperforming, Right.
And so you know, I had to letgo of that.
And as he tells people all thetime and look at me now, mom,
(03:22):
they let me lead a whole school.
And I have to really thinkabout this that sometimes our
expectations that we have asparents are what we are putting
on.
And we want to certainlymotivate our kids I'm not saying
that but sometimes it's what wethink the world wants to do,
(03:44):
our peer group around us, andnot what's really right for that
child.
And so I see that a lot and Isee that you know listening to
my daughter talk about herfriends and I watch it and I'm
going.
You know, sometimes you got totake a step back, yeah, but what
is motivating?
What's the end goal?
I mean, where do they want tobe?
(04:04):
And I do think that teachingthem that, setting their goal
for where they want to be, so,what is it they finally want to
do, and then helping them to seewhere I think parents come in
is.
This is why you have to do this, to get to this Right.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Right, it's the behavioral stuff that you need
to take in order to get there.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Right, and you don't have to like it.
You know you may not ever likedoing this, but you got to do
this to get to this, yeah, andso I think sometimes we got to
spend more time on that insteadof the end result behavior
that's.
I mean, you know, there's no,nobody.
Nobody gave us a parenting book, did they?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
No, they don't hand you one no, no, hopefully, you
know it's a hypothesis you're.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
You're a psychologist , we're setting hypothesis,
we're trying some things andthen we're coming back.
I mean it's a all the timedefinitely.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
All I can hope is most parents have a lifeline
like dr thomas that they cancall when Definitely hard to see
things clearly.
And I know at the beginning ofthis year there was an incidence
where some kids were being meanto my son and I did not have
the appropriate reaction.
You know I was like, well, letme give you some comebacks and
(05:36):
this is what you're going to sayto that little turd tomorrow.
You know, knowing good and well, that's going to escalate that
kid's behavior and they're goingto, you know, up the ante and
thank God for my lifeline, tosay, and well, that's going to
escalate that kid's behavior andthey're going to, you know, up
the ante, and thank God for mylifeline, to say, well, let's
think about this, Jenny, what'sgoing to happen when he goes to
school and gives this comebackto this kid?
You know you need that soundingboard.
(05:57):
Hopefully parents are reachingout.
You know that they havesomebody that they can have a
sounding board to say, well,let's think about what's going
to happen if you do that,Because what was your advice to
me, Dr Thomas?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Well, you know it's my favorite one because I think
this happens a lot that studentscome home, your child comes
home and somebody's picked onthem or you know they'll say
there's bullying going on.
And you know we've got toreally define bullying.
It doesn't matter, it's peermistreatment, right.
And so you know, when you weretelling me about it and your
response, I was going this isnot the school psychologist I
(06:33):
know giving this advice.
So for those of you listening,just know that sometimes we
don't use our own training, evenwith our own kids.
But you know, one of myfavorite things to talk about
actually came out of thePositive Behavior Support
Technical Assistance Center andit is about strategies for peer
(06:54):
mistreatment, and so I kind ofcall it the AAA.
Okay, that first of all, thefirst thing you have to do is
assure your child that whenpeople are mistreating them, it
is not generally about yourchild, it's more about them.
They're trying to get attention.
They're trying to get attentionfrom peers.
They're trying to get attention, you know, or friend, they're
(07:15):
trying to get some kind ofsocial acceptance.
And if you've ever been avictim of any of that, you know
that they're doing it for thelaugh from other kids or
whatever.
So you have to assure themfirst of all it really isn't
about them and you have to letthem know and help them to see
that.
And then the best thing we cando for anybody for any kind of
(07:37):
peer mistreatment and I'm goingto say this even for adults too
is to teach them that stop, walkand talk.
And it's so simple.
Give them a stop.
You know, stop, quit.
If you're, you know, middle orhigh school, you may have some
other slang words that I don'tknow what they are now, but you
know, whatever those words are,I don't have, I don't have any
high school grandchildren yet,so I don't know the vocabulary.
(08:00):
But saying stop, I don't likethat, or just quit, whatever.
And then teach them to walkaway from the situation and not
engage in it, because engagingin it is actually reinforcing
for the person doing it, Becauseif they're trying to get
attention, that's exactly whatthey just got.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And so if you walk away and then telling them to
for kids to go talk to a trustedadult, and so, so first of all
let's assure them and then armthem with that stop, okay, walk,
talk.
To know to do that wheneveranybody's mistreating them or if
(08:41):
they see mistreatment of otherkids.
And then the last thing isreally to alert the adults in
the building.
Because one of the things Isaid to Jenny when she was
telling me about this is I saiddo you think the teacher really
knows what's going on?
And I think the teacher reallydidn't understand the impact.
I think she knew something wasgoing on, but she didn't realize
it was impacting.
And so I think the teacherreally didn't understand the
impact.
I think she knew something wasgoing on, but she didn't realize
it was impacting.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
And so I think you know those are my.
I think just little simplethings like that.
Having that for your kids is soimportant it is.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, it's almost like you know we joke about this
is like having like where's themanual?
To be parents, but I do feellike it's so important that we
ourselves are equipped I againwrote that one down too with
these kind of skills, so thatway that we can then teach them
to our kids, because theexpectation that all parents
have this knowledge or have thatkind of ability to speak these
(09:33):
words and then coach their kidson it isn't always the case, and
so just having think these bitsand pieces can be really
empowering and helpful, nomatter what.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I think talking to others.
But I'm just going to say, becareful, because sometimes your
peer group is this is what I seewith my daughter and I'm you
know who is y'all's age, youknow is that some of her peers.
(10:04):
What they're doing is not youknow, exactly.
Quite right, sometimes it's fineto talk to other parents, but
sometimes getting a perspectiveof somebody that might be a
little more seasoned, or oldlike I am, you know, is good,
and sometimes even talking tosomebody at your school like a
counselor, if you're havingtrouble with something.
(10:25):
Talking to the school counselor, because a lot of times they're
going to give you a little bitdifferent viewpoint too, and
that's what they should be doinghelping you with some of those
things as well.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
What do you see are some of the biggest challenges
facing kids right now?
Just in general, or from likethe educational kind of system?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I think social, I think the social media is the
biggest and the ease of of beingunkind.
It's easy to do now, I thinkthe temptation and the openness
of what kids are exposed to andwithout supervision sometimes
(11:05):
and I'm not saying that, I'm nottalking about banning stuff and
stuff like that, I'm justsaying kids have access to so
much more stuff and so thatmeans as parents, you have to be
so much more, you have toreally watch what's going on,
you know, with them.
I think it's always been true.
I just think we have more tolook at now, like whereas with
(11:27):
my kids we were just, you know,we were checking their book bag
right, looking for notes, notes,we were secretly checking, you
know, and now you know.
And I read something reallyinteresting the other day
because they said technology hashelped parents to know where
their kids are.
So it's been great, so you canput you know if your child goes
(11:49):
somewhere, you know exactlywhere they are, if they have a
phone or something, particularlykids that are a little bit
older, but we're not really ableto control what all they're
being exposed to and I thinkit's made it really hard for
schools, I think it's made itreally hard for parents and I
think we have to be, you know,really have those clear
guidelines in our homes andcontinue to reinforce them.
(12:10):
People are mean, kids are just.
They're exposed to a lot ofstuff.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
It's a different world to a lot of stuff, yeah
that's a different world.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, like back in the.
You know our parents.
I guarantee they had no ideawhere the hell I was most of the
time, but they thank God.
But also, that wasn't part oftheir, that wasn't the key it's.
I don't need to know where mykid is.
I need to know, wheneverthey're going to be at a place,
that they're going to be able totake care of themselves, that
they're going to be able tohandle whatever situation that
(12:41):
they come across.
You know, knowing where they'reat isn't that important to me.
So to hear you say that thatwas real important to people and
that's what they use technologyfor, I would not even.
I don't even think about that asan option, like knowing where
they're at I just want them tobe equipped with skills so that
way, if they find themselves inany situation, they know what to
do it in that area.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
So, and I think what's hurt, what, what I hear
from teachers and educators, itis that is unbelievably hard and
I think even driving peopleaway is this total belief in
your child.
And what they said they did.
And I mean I know it for a factthat your little angel would
(13:25):
never do anything wrong.
Ok, we all know we did thingswrong.
So what makes us think ourchildren would not do anything
wrong?
And we are doing this pit?
We are not creating anenvironment where the adults we
send our kids to school, we'reentrusting them to the adults in
that building.
And if that adult said that youknow they were out of area, you
(13:48):
know, let's just take that theywere in the lunchroom and they
were out of their area, weshould not be marching up to the
school saying Johnny told me hedidn't do that, right, because
then you've pitted this adult.
School saying Johnny told me hedidn't do that, right, right,
because then you've pitted thisadult.
If you've got a problem and youthink your child is being
targeted by somebody in abuilding and that could happen
y'all, I mean it could you needto take it up with the adults.
(14:08):
Your child makes mistakes.
They make behavioral mistakesevery day.
They're not perfect and when weare making teachers feel, you
know, unempowered because we're,you know, coming back because
our kids don't do anything wrong, and that's what I hear, that's
what I think is the bigstruggle now for schools is.
(14:30):
You know a lot of parents thatdon't want to admit that.
You know, yeah, my child did.
Yeah, he talked.
Man I had on every report card.
I talked too much and I did.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I still do.
One of my favorite things thatyou often say to me is or I've
heard you say over the years isteachable moments, right, and
really seizing teachable moments.
And I had a teachable momentrecently with my son, who is a
very good kid.
He works really hard, he doeseverything I ask him to do.
(15:05):
You know, honestly, he he's agreat kid, but he messed up
Right, he had, and I messed up,we messed up as parents in, I
think, letting technology get alittle bit out of control in our
house, and we needed toacknowledge that and we knew
that and we'd had severalconversations, but we let it
(15:27):
keep going.
And then we got really upsetwith him recently.
He had a friend over and he wason his iPad playing an
independent game and his frienddecided to leave, as one would.
It's not fun to sit there andwatch someone else play a game.
And we got really upset withhim and I was saying to him you
know something along the linesof you need to be able to pick
(15:49):
up on those kind of social cues.
You know if someone's nothaving fun, maybe you put that
away or why.
You know it was a lot ofconversations.
Why did you get the iPad out inthe first place.
We've made a lot of changessince this conversation.
However, you know it had kindof snowballed and we were having
this conversation about youneed to be able to.
You know it's good to havemultiple friend groups and to
(16:11):
just to be able to sociallyinteract with adults, with
children like that is somethingthat's very important to his dad
and I.
And he went to school and toldhis friend that his mother said
that he needed to make newfriends, and so he told him that
if I've been ignoring you today, that's why.
Because my mother said I needto make new friends.
Now I'm certain this little boywent home and told his mom that
(16:34):
Jack's mom said that he needsto make different friends
besides me, right, and so we'retalking about this over dinner.
And I said, jack, that's notwhat I said.
And he said Well, mom, that'swhat I heard.
And so that to me, you know,I've got this great kid that is
really smart, that does reallywell in school and 95% of the
time gets it right, but notalways.
(16:54):
He's still a kid and he's stillgoing to misinterpret what I say
and and I think that, to yourpoint, susan, it's our kids,
they're they might think they'retelling you the truth.
You know, I don't think he wentand told this kid thinking
anything other than well, thisis what my mom said, but it was
a misinterpretation of what Ihad said, and so, just
(17:15):
remembering that kids kids canget it wrong too, even when they
think they're telling the truth, it's been a real teachable
moment for us this week In A.
We have, you know, done awaywith electronics during the week
and we had some real.
It was hard, we had some harddays.
Those first days are reallytough when you take something
(17:36):
away, because A I didn't wanthim to feel like I was punishing
him and I kept saying this ismy fault, this is your dad and
I's fault.
It's not a punishment for you.
This is something we all needto get better at is putting the
electronics down and engaging asa family, because when people
are in person, that's when youengage with people, that's when
we have meaningful conversations, that's you know, that's when
(17:58):
you really build memories withpeople and build relationships.
And so sometimes it's reallytaking a good hard look at your
own behavior and yourexpectations and things that you
have kind of allowed to get outof control without even meaning
to.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
And I think that is so powerful, jenny, because you
know my favorite line is we'vegot to build relationships.
But I think that is so powerful, jenny, because you know, my
favorite line is we've got tobuild relationships.
But I think when I talk aboutall the social media, it is
taking away from the way webuild relationships with each
other.
Yes, if we're, you know, and Ithink, as parents, we have to be
really careful, and I think we,you know, I'm watching my kids,
(18:35):
you know, try to balance that.
Actually, my kids, you know,try to balance that.
You know, my daughter, there'sno TV during the week because
they're trying to their timebetween the time they get home
from work and they're young, six, four and two, and so when the
time they go to bed is just alittle bit.
So if they're, you know,immediately engaged, and so
they're not building thosehealthy relationships.
(18:56):
And that's the teachablemoments.
It's through the things we'redoing with each other, that's
how we teach.
So I think that's another thingthat's hard now.
And then kids go to school andthey're not sure how to act
because, you know, too muchscreen time no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
whatever, everything has gotten a little bit easier.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Well and educationally is better.
I mean, we keep thinking kidsare learning from, you know, and
what we know is that's not howvocabulary and all those skills
develop from interaction andwhen what we're taking in that's
not an interaction.
And so I think you know it's agreat thing.
Now, I'm not against listen.
You know, we got to do what wegot to do as parents sometime,
(20:28):
right, right, survival, andthat's OK.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
But you also have to recognize.
Sometimes, you know I mean I'mdefinitely guilty of this.
After working all day, I wantto zone out, I want to stare at
my phone and doom scroll andlike that's not healthy either,
and so I'm ignoring my husband,I'm ignoring my kids, and is it
really making me feel better inthe end?
Probably not.
I might get some chuckles outof some of the reels I'm
(20:53):
watching, but like other thanthat, I feel a lot better if
I've just played a game with mykids or just had a dance party,
or we go for a walk or you know,like that is truly those
dopamine hits that really I'mseeking, not so much scrolling.
And so again, it comes back tolike examining your own behavior
(21:14):
, which we, you know, we know wetalk about a lot with behavior.
You got to look at yourbehavior if you want to impact
someone else's behavior.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, I mean they just that's all they do at
school too.
I mean our daughter, you know,she gets an iPad.
The only electronic she has isthe electronic she gets from
school.
She doesn't have any others, soit's the one that the school
gives her, is the electronic shegets from school.
She doesn't have any others, soit's the one that the school
gives her.
And that's what I mean.
They're on and they do likethese social things on there too
, and I'll look at theplayground and there's all kinds
(21:46):
of fun equipment and they'reall sitting there on their iPads
and it's just, it's reinforcedin all areas, I think, which
makes it hard.
I did see recently I think, drThomas, you might know this
better, especially from aninternational perspective it's
one of the Scandinaviancountries that has actually
taken away all electronics andin their educational system, are
going back to pencil and paper,like the whole thing, because
(22:09):
they've just they're like we'renot doing this, we're not going
to contribute to this problem.
It wasn't broke to begin withand so we're going back to this.
Have you seen that?
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I haven't seen that, but you know it's funny because
I was just talking with anothercolleague that Jenny and I work
with and we were talking abouton math, how when kids are doing
things you know electronicallyyou can't see, you can't do
error analysis, so like youcan't see where the breakdown is
I mean, it's true in everythingnow and so we're so hyper
(22:39):
dependent on it.
So instead of it being the toolthat we use for certain things,
we made it about everything.
And so and I know for I mean, Iknow the American Academy of
Pediatrics has come out withsome pretty clear guidelines for
, you know, families about theuse of social media and things
like that, and I think it'sreally important for you know
families about the use of socialmedia and things like that, and
I think it's really importantfor you know us to kind of look
(23:01):
at that because you know it'snot all bad but, boy, we can get
addicted to it, can't?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
we, yeah, yeah, really can.
And that just presents anotherchallenge too, from even a
bullying or mean kidsperspective, because I know that
I have a good friend who, whosedaughter was actually
legitimately, in using thecorrect term being bullied
Thanks, jenny, from a previouspodcast, but it was actually a
hundred percent legit.
(23:26):
But it's so much of it wassocial media kind of based, and
then she would go to school andthese kids all have phones and
so they were able to, you know,continue those types of acts or
bullying there.
But the school just I don't.
I don't know that it was everresolved to the point where she
had to switch schools because itwas so bad and there just
(23:47):
wasn't a solution that was ableto be reached within that,
except we're just going to haveto remove it and and I know
schools, parents who have goneto schools, and they want the
school to address things thathave happened outside of school
on social media and they'rewanting the school to fix it.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And you know it's really.
You know parents have got tounite and engage.
And you know and it would beone more thing for me to police
which I had enough troublepolicing my children when they
were you know, my children'sfather was a law enforcement
officer and he was very good.
My daughter was fine, but atpolicing my son, that's cool.
(24:29):
Thank goodness he was better atit than I was.
You got to have one good cop inyour.
You know, somebody's got to bethe cop.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Right, Right.
Well gosh, this has been great.
I really feel like we've gottenso much from this.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I know I feel like we could talk for another hour
just because A Dr Thomas is awealth of information.
She's got a ton of experience.
But it's like you said, you'reseasoned and it's always good to
get a different perspectiveSomebody that's already lived
this and raised kids once andturned out some successful
adults.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And you know I'm going to.
I'll leave you with one littlelast piece of advice that I
believed in and I've given mychildren.
You know we talk about this.
Your kids need a village andall that kind of stuff, right?
But I always tell you know, Itell my children this you need
to have somebody that can bethat other trusted parent that's
not you that your kids know aresafe people to go to, that have
(25:20):
the same value system that youhave, that they could go to if
something happened or if theywere struggling.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
And I was very blessed that bothmy children each had, you know,
somebody like that.
My daughter used it one timeand she ended up.
My daughter ended up telling meabout in high school she was in
(25:41):
the wrong place and she neededto get out of there.
She knew she wasn't supposed tobe there and she called my
friend to go get her, and so wehad this agreement.
You know that these were yoursafe people, and so I'll just
give parents that piece ofadvice, particularly as you get
kids that are getting moreindependent, that they've gotten
out to, you know, becausesometimes they go down that
(26:03):
slippery slope because theydon't want to tell you they've
done something they weren'tsupposed to do.
Just a little, a little freepiece of advice.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Thank you so much.
We appreciate your time.
We appreciate you coming on thepodcast and kicking off season
five.
So thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
That's exciting.
Thank you for having me.
You know what Y'all werekeeping me young.
You're keeping me young.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
You don't need any help.
I've seen your dance moves.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
That's fine.
Yeah, well, seriously, though,thank you so much, and on our
website, we'd like to includesome of the acronyms and tips
that you gave to, so that waythey can serve as resources for
other parents.
We have a lot of friends whoare also educators that listen
to the podcast, that I thinkthat this would just be great
for just tools in their toolboxas well, if they'd already have
(26:51):
them in there.
So all of that information willbe on our new and improved
website, which is launching withseason five as well.
So, thank you, and we're goingto share all of that stuff with
our listeners too, because mynotes on a post-it aren't going
to cut it.
I need to look it up.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yes, you can find that resource Dr Thomas created
for us.
It is posted to our websiteunder resources.
And check us out on socialmedia the Lylas podcast, and at
the Lylas podcastcom until nextweek, y'all Lylas.
Hey folks, welcome back to the Lylas podcast and
our part two with Dr SusanThomas.
Now you'll get to hear theanswer to the question that was
posed in last week's episodeabout how to motivate a child
who just doesn't seem to haveany form of motivation.
But what do you do if you havea child who you know is clearly
(00:36):
not motivated?
Like you talked about how yourson was very social, your
daughter could, you know, kindof care less.
What if you have a child whothere's ended it, you know,
maybe their stepmom happens tobe a psychologist.
But what if there's nothing thatyou can literally and
behaviorally trained and youknow WVU and Marshall, but that
there's just not a reward or inusing those kind of terms of
(00:58):
punishment or a consequence thatis really motivating at the
needle one way or the other,that is really motivating at the
needle one way or the other,even whenever they're
behaviorally defined in bothsettings, like meetings with the
teachers, the parents, andthere's just very laissez-faire
in a way.
It's very you know anythingcould happen and it's all still
(01:18):
going to be okay.
What do you do?
I put you on the spot.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Can't wait to hear this answer.
I'm not a magician here now,but I will tell you a couple of
things we know about motivation,Okay, and and I have a I have a
dear friend that he's.
I mean, really y'all shouldhave had him on to talk to him,
because he's taught me most ofwhat I know about behavior.
But one of the things he'lltalk about we talk about
reinforcement, because that'swhat you're trying to do is
you're trying to reinforce toget the behavior that you want
(01:51):
to see.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
And first of all, I think as parents, we have to
stop a little bit and think isthis our definition that we have
of motivation, Right?
Or is this, you know, is thisright?
I think you have to ask thatquestion first, right, Right.
(02:17):
But then I would say, if wecan't find something that's
reinforcing and he said this tome a million times we hadn't
found the right thing.
We just hadn't found it yet.
And so we have to keep workingwith that child to find out what
will be reinforcing to thatchild.
But I think also, as parents,sometimes we have to let go of
things.
So and I'll use my own children.
(02:38):
So my daughter, who's anintrovert, was the overachiever,
never did anything wrong.
I bet maybe one time in herwhole career did I ever have to
say anything.
She took the AP classes.
She did all the things right,Right.
My son not so much, and it wasreally hard for me because I saw
(03:00):
him as not achieving his fullpotential.
I mean, I'm an educator, I knewwhat their, I knew what their
cognitive scores meant, Right.
And I looked at his and hersand I'm like he's
underperforming, Right.
And so you know, I had to letgo of that.
And as he tells people all thetime and look at me now, mom,
(03:22):
they let me lead a whole school.
And I have to really thinkabout this that sometimes our
expectations that we have asparents are what we are putting
on.
And we want to certainlymotivate our kids I'm not saying
that but sometimes it's what wethink the world wants to do,
(03:44):
our peer group around us, andnot what's really right for that
child.
And so I see that a lot and Isee that you know listening to
my daughter talk about herfriends and I watch it and I'm
going.
You know, sometimes you got totake a step back, yeah, but what
is motivating?
What's the end goal?
I mean, where do they want tobe?
(04:04):
And I do think that teachingthem that, setting their goal
for where they want to be, so,what is it they finally want to
do, and then helping them to seewhere I think parents come in
is.
This is why you have to do this, to get to this Right.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Right, it's the behavioral stuff that you need
to take in order to get there.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Right, and you don't have to like it.
You know you may not ever likedoing this, but you got to do
this to get to this, yeah, andso I think sometimes we got to
spend more time on that insteadof the end result behavior
that's.
I mean, you know, there's no,nobody.
Nobody gave us a parenting book, did they?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
No, they don't hand you one no, no, hopefully, you
know it's a hypothesis you're.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
You're a psychologist , we're setting hypothesis,
we're trying some things andthen we're coming back.
I mean it's a all the timedefinitely.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
All I can hope is most parents have a lifeline
like dr thomas that they cancall when Definitely hard to see
things clearly.
And I know at the beginning ofthis year there was an incidence
where some kids were being meanto my son and I did not have
the appropriate reaction.
You know I was like, well, letme give you some comebacks and
(05:36):
this is what you're going to sayto that little turd tomorrow.
You know, knowing good and well, that's going to escalate that
kid's behavior and they're goingto, you know, up the ante and
thank God for my lifeline, tosay, and well, that's going to
escalate that kid's behavior andthey're going to, you know, up
the ante, and thank God for mylifeline, to say, well, let's
think about this, Jenny, what'sgoing to happen when he goes to
school and gives this comebackto this kid?
You know you need that soundingboard.
(05:57):
Hopefully parents are reachingout.
You know that they havesomebody that they can have a
sounding board to say, well,let's think about what's going
to happen if you do that,Because what was your advice to
me, Dr Thomas?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Well, you know it's my favorite one because I think
this happens a lot that studentscome home, your child comes
home and somebody's picked onthem or you know they'll say
there's bullying going on.
And you know we've got toreally define bullying.
It doesn't matter, it's peermistreatment, right.
And so you know, when you weretelling me about it and your
response, I was going this isnot the school psychologist I
(06:33):
know giving this advice.
So for those of you listening,just know that sometimes we
don't use our own training, evenwith our own kids.
But you know, one of myfavorite things to talk about
actually came out of thePositive Behavior Support
Technical Assistance Center andit is about strategies for peer
(06:54):
mistreatment, and so I kind ofcall it the AAA.
Okay, that first of all, thefirst thing you have to do is
assure your child that whenpeople are mistreating them, it
is not generally about yourchild, it's more about them.
They're trying to get attention.
They're trying to get attentionfrom peers.
They're trying to get attention, you know, or friend, they're
(07:15):
trying to get some kind ofsocial acceptance.
And if you've ever been avictim of any of that, you know
that they're doing it for thelaugh from other kids or
whatever.
So you have to assure themfirst of all it really isn't
about them and you have to letthem know and help them to see
that.
And then the best thing we cando for anybody for any kind of
(07:37):
peer mistreatment and I'm goingto say this even for adults too
is to teach them that stop, walkand talk.
And it's so simple.
Give them a stop.
You know, stop, quit.
If you're, you know, middle orhigh school, you may have some
other slang words that I don'tknow what they are now, but you
know, whatever those words are,I don't have, I don't have any
high school grandchildren yet,so I don't know the vocabulary.
(08:00):
But saying stop, I don't likethat, or just quit, whatever.
And then teach them to walkaway from the situation and not
engage in it, because engagingin it is actually reinforcing
for the person doing it, Becauseif they're trying to get
attention, that's exactly whatthey just got.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And so if you walk away and then telling them to
for kids to go talk to a trustedadult, and so, so first of all
let's assure them and then armthem with that stop, okay, walk,
talk.
To know to do that wheneveranybody's mistreating them or if
(08:41):
they see mistreatment of otherkids.
And then the last thing isreally to alert the adults in
the building.
Because one of the things Isaid to Jenny when she was
telling me about this is I saiddo you think the teacher really
knows what's going on?
And I think the teacher reallydidn't understand the impact.
I think she knew something wasgoing on, but she didn't realize
it was impacting.
And so I think the teacherreally didn't understand the
impact.
I think she knew something wasgoing on, but she didn't realize
it was impacting.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
And so I think you know those are my.
I think just little simplethings like that.
Having that for your kids is soimportant it is.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, it's almost like you know we joke about this
is like having like where's themanual?
To be parents, but I do feellike it's so important that we
ourselves are equipped I againwrote that one down too with
these kind of skills, so thatway that we can then teach them
to our kids, because theexpectation that all parents
have this knowledge or have thatkind of ability to speak these
(09:33):
words and then coach their kidson it isn't always the case, and
so just having think these bitsand pieces can be really
empowering and helpful, nomatter what.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I think talking to others.
But I'm just going to say, becareful, because sometimes your
peer group is this is what I seewith my daughter and I'm you
know who is y'all's age, youknow is that some of her peers.
(10:04):
What they're doing is not youknow, exactly.
Quite right, sometimes it's fineto talk to other parents, but
sometimes getting a perspectiveof somebody that might be a
little more seasoned, or oldlike I am, you know, is good,
and sometimes even talking tosomebody at your school like a
counselor, if you're havingtrouble with something.
(10:25):
Talking to the school counselor, because a lot of times they're
going to give you a little bitdifferent viewpoint too, and
that's what they should be doinghelping you with some of those
things as well.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
What do you see are some of the biggest challenges
facing kids right now?
Just in general, or from likethe educational kind of system?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I think social, I think the social media is the
biggest and the ease of of beingunkind.
It's easy to do now, I thinkthe temptation and the openness
of what kids are exposed to andwithout supervision sometimes
(11:05):
and I'm not saying that, I'm nottalking about banning stuff and
stuff like that, I'm justsaying kids have access to so
much more stuff and so thatmeans as parents, you have to be
so much more, you have toreally watch what's going on,
you know, with them.
I think it's always been true.
I just think we have more tolook at now, like whereas with
(11:27):
my kids we were just, you know,we were checking their book bag
right, looking for notes, notes,we were secretly checking, you
know, and now you know.
And I read something reallyinteresting the other day
because they said technology hashelped parents to know where
their kids are.
So it's been great, so you canput you know if your child goes
(11:49):
somewhere, you know exactlywhere they are, if they have a
phone or something, particularlykids that are a little bit
older, but we're not really ableto control what all they're
being exposed to and I thinkit's made it really hard for
schools, I think it's made itreally hard for parents and I
think we have to be, you know,really have those clear
guidelines in our homes andcontinue to reinforce them.
(12:10):
People are mean, kids are just.
They're exposed to a lot ofstuff.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
It's a different world to a lot of stuff, yeah
that's a different world.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, like back in the.
You know our parents.
I guarantee they had no ideawhere the hell I was most of the
time, but they thank God.
But also, that wasn't part oftheir, that wasn't the key it's.
I don't need to know where mykid is.
I need to know, wheneverthey're going to be at a place,
that they're going to be able totake care of themselves, that
they're going to be able tohandle whatever situation that
(12:41):
they come across.
You know, knowing where they'reat isn't that important to me.
So to hear you say that thatwas real important to people and
that's what they use technologyfor, I would not even.
I don't even think about that asan option, like knowing where
they're at I just want them tobe equipped with skills so that
way, if they find themselves inany situation, they know what to
do it in that area.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
So, and I think what's hurt, what, what I hear
from teachers and educators, itis that is unbelievably hard and
I think even driving peopleaway is this total belief in
your child.
And what they said they did.
And I mean I know it for a factthat your little angel would
(13:25):
never do anything wrong.
Ok, we all know we did thingswrong.
So what makes us think ourchildren would not do anything
wrong?
And we are doing this pit?
We are not creating anenvironment where the adults we
send our kids to school, we'reentrusting them to the adults in
that building.
And if that adult said that youknow they were out of area, you
(13:48):
know, let's just take that theywere in the lunchroom and they
were out of their area, weshould not be marching up to the
school saying Johnny told me hedidn't do that, right, because
then you've pitted this adult.
School saying Johnny told me hedidn't do that, right, right,
because then you've pitted thisadult.
If you've got a problem and youthink your child is being
targeted by somebody in abuilding and that could happen
y'all, I mean it could you needto take it up with the adults.
(14:08):
Your child makes mistakes.
They make behavioral mistakesevery day.
They're not perfect and when weare making teachers feel, you
know, unempowered because we're,you know, coming back because
our kids don't do anything wrong, and that's what I hear, that's
what I think is the bigstruggle now for schools is.
(14:30):
You know a lot of parents thatdon't want to admit that.
You know, yeah, my child did.
Yeah, he talked.
Man I had on every report card.
I talked too much and I did.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I still do.
One of my favorite things thatyou often say to me is or I've
heard you say over the years isteachable moments, right, and
really seizing teachable moments.
And I had a teachable momentrecently with my son, who is a
very good kid.
He works really hard, he doeseverything I ask him to do.
(15:05):
You know, honestly, he he's agreat kid, but he messed up
Right, he had, and I messed up,we messed up as parents in, I
think, letting technology get alittle bit out of control in our
house, and we needed toacknowledge that and we knew
that and we'd had severalconversations, but we let it
(15:27):
keep going.
And then we got really upsetwith him recently.
He had a friend over and he wason his iPad playing an
independent game and his frienddecided to leave, as one would.
It's not fun to sit there andwatch someone else play a game.
And we got really upset withhim and I was saying to him you
know something along the linesof you need to be able to pick
(15:49):
up on those kind of social cues.
You know if someone's nothaving fun, maybe you put that
away or why.
You know it was a lot ofconversations.
Why did you get the iPad out inthe first place.
We've made a lot of changessince this conversation.
However, you know it had kindof snowballed and we were having
this conversation about youneed to be able to.
You know it's good to havemultiple friend groups and to
(16:11):
just to be able to sociallyinteract with adults, with
children like that is somethingthat's very important to his dad
and I.
And he went to school and toldhis friend that his mother said
that he needed to make newfriends, and so he told him that
if I've been ignoring you today, that's why.
Because my mother said I needto make new friends.
Now I'm certain this little boywent home and told his mom that
(16:34):
Jack's mom said that he needsto make different friends
besides me, right, and so we'retalking about this over dinner.
And I said, jack, that's notwhat I said.
And he said Well, mom, that'swhat I heard.
And so that to me, you know,I've got this great kid that is
really smart, that does reallywell in school and 95% of the
time gets it right, but notalways.
(16:54):
He's still a kid and he's stillgoing to misinterpret what I say
and and I think that, to yourpoint, susan, it's our kids,
they're they might think they'retelling you the truth.
You know, I don't think he wentand told this kid thinking
anything other than well, thisis what my mom said, but it was
a misinterpretation of what Ihad said, and so, just
(17:15):
remembering that kids kids canget it wrong too, even when they
think they're telling the truth, it's been a real teachable
moment for us this week In A.
We have, you know, done awaywith electronics during the week
and we had some real.
It was hard, we had some harddays.
Those first days are reallytough when you take something
(17:36):
away, because A I didn't wanthim to feel like I was punishing
him and I kept saying this ismy fault, this is your dad and
I's fault.
It's not a punishment for you.
This is something we all needto get better at is putting the
electronics down and engaging asa family, because when people
are in person, that's when youengage with people, that's when
we have meaningful conversations, that's you know, that's when
(17:58):
you really build memories withpeople and build relationships.
And so sometimes it's reallytaking a good hard look at your
own behavior and yourexpectations and things that you
have kind of allowed to get outof control without even meaning
to.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
And I think that is so powerful, jenny, because you
know my favorite line is we'vegot to build relationships.
But I think that is so powerful, jenny, because you know, my
favorite line is we've got tobuild relationships.
But I think when I talk aboutall the social media, it is
taking away from the way webuild relationships with each
other.
Yes, if we're, you know, and Ithink, as parents, we have to be
really careful, and I think we,you know, I'm watching my kids,
(18:35):
you know, try to balance that.
Actually, my kids, you know,try to balance that.
You know, my daughter, there'sno TV during the week because
they're trying to their timebetween the time they get home
from work and they're young, six, four and two, and so when the
time they go to bed is just alittle bit.
So if they're, you know,immediately engaged, and so
they're not building thosehealthy relationships.
(18:56):
And that's the teachablemoments.
It's through the things we'redoing with each other, that's
how we teach.
So I think that's another thingthat's hard now.
And then kids go to school andthey're not sure how to act
because, you know, too muchscreen time no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
whatever, everything has gotten a little bit easier.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Well and educationally is better.
I mean, we keep thinking kidsare learning from, you know, and
what we know is that's not howvocabulary and all those skills
develop from interaction andwhen what we're taking in that's
not an interaction.
And so I think you know it's agreat thing.
Now, I'm not against listen.
You know, we got to do what wegot to do as parents sometime,
(20:28):
right, right, survival, andthat's OK.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
But you also have to recognize.
Sometimes, you know I mean I'mdefinitely guilty of this.
After working all day, I wantto zone out, I want to stare at
my phone and doom scroll andlike that's not healthy either,
and so I'm ignoring my husband,I'm ignoring my kids, and is it
really making me feel better inthe end?
Probably not.
I might get some chuckles outof some of the reels I'm
(20:53):
watching, but like other thanthat, I feel a lot better if
I've just played a game with mykids or just had a dance party,
or we go for a walk or you know,like that is truly those
dopamine hits that really I'mseeking, not so much scrolling.
And so again, it comes back tolike examining your own behavior
(21:14):
, which we, you know, we know wetalk about a lot with behavior.
You got to look at yourbehavior if you want to impact
someone else's behavior.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, I mean they just that's all they do at
school too.
I mean our daughter, you know,she gets an iPad.
The only electronic she has isthe electronic she gets from
school.
She doesn't have any others, soit's the one that the school
gives her, is the electronic shegets from school.
She doesn't have any others, soit's the one that the school
gives her.
And that's what I mean.
They're on and they do likethese social things on there too
, and I'll look at theplayground and there's all kinds
(21:46):
of fun equipment and they'reall sitting there on their iPads
and it's just, it's reinforcedin all areas, I think, which
makes it hard.
I did see recently I think, drThomas, you might know this
better, especially from aninternational perspective it's
one of the Scandinaviancountries that has actually
taken away all electronics andin their educational system, are
going back to pencil and paper,like the whole thing, because
(22:09):
they've just they're like we'renot doing this, we're not going
to contribute to this problem.
It wasn't broke to begin withand so we're going back to this.
Have you seen that?
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I haven't seen that, but you know it's funny because
I was just talking with anothercolleague that Jenny and I work
with and we were talking abouton math, how when kids are doing
things you know electronicallyyou can't see, you can't do
error analysis, so like youcan't see where the breakdown is
I mean, it's true in everythingnow and so we're so hyper
(22:39):
dependent on it.
So instead of it being the toolthat we use for certain things,
we made it about everything.
And so and I know for I mean, Iknow the American Academy of
Pediatrics has come out withsome pretty clear guidelines for
, you know, families about theuse of social media and things
like that, and I think it'sreally important for you know
families about the use of socialmedia and things like that, and
I think it's really importantfor you know us to kind of look
(23:01):
at that because you know it'snot all bad but, boy, we can get
addicted to it, can't?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
we, yeah, yeah, really can.
And that just presents anotherchallenge too, from even a
bullying or mean kidsperspective, because I know that
I have a good friend who, whosedaughter was actually
legitimately, in using thecorrect term being bullied
Thanks, jenny, from a previouspodcast, but it was actually a
hundred percent legit.
(23:26):
But it's so much of it wassocial media kind of based, and
then she would go to school andthese kids all have phones and
so they were able to, you know,continue those types of acts or
bullying there.
But the school just I don't.
I don't know that it was everresolved to the point where she
had to switch schools because itwas so bad and there just
(23:47):
wasn't a solution that was ableto be reached within that,
except we're just going to haveto remove it and and I know
schools, parents who have goneto schools, and they want the
school to address things thathave happened outside of school
on social media and they'rewanting the school to fix it.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And you know it's really.
You know parents have got tounite and engage.
And you know and it would beone more thing for me to police
which I had enough troublepolicing my children when they
were you know, my children'sfather was a law enforcement
officer and he was very good.
My daughter was fine, but atpolicing my son, that's cool.
(24:29):
Thank goodness he was better atit than I was.
You got to have one good cop inyour.
You know, somebody's got to bethe cop.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Right, Right.
Well gosh, this has been great.
I really feel like we've gottenso much from this.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I know I feel like we could talk for another hour
just because A Dr Thomas is awealth of information.
She's got a ton of experience.
But it's like you said, you'reseasoned and it's always good to
get a different perspectiveSomebody that's already lived
this and raised kids once andturned out some successful
adults.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And you know I'm going to.
I'll leave you with one littlelast piece of advice that I
believed in and I've given mychildren.
You know we talk about this.
Your kids need a village andall that kind of stuff, right?
But I always tell you know, Itell my children this you need
to have somebody that can bethat other trusted parent that's
not you that your kids know aresafe people to go to, that have
(25:20):
the same value system that youhave, that they could go to if
something happened or if theywere struggling.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
And I was very blessed that bothmy children each had, you know,
somebody like that.
My daughter used it one timeand she ended up.
My daughter ended up telling meabout in high school she was in
(25:41):
the wrong place and she neededto get out of there.
She knew she wasn't supposed tobe there and she called my
friend to go get her, and so wehad this agreement.
You know that these were yoursafe people, and so I'll just
give parents that piece ofadvice, particularly as you get
kids that are getting moreindependent, that they've gotten
out to, you know, becausesometimes they go down that
(26:03):
slippery slope because theydon't want to tell you they've
done something they weren'tsupposed to do.
Just a little, a little freepiece of advice.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Thank you so much.
We appreciate your time.
We appreciate you coming on thepodcast and kicking off season
five.
So thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
That's exciting.
Thank you for having me.
You know what Y'all werekeeping me young.
You're keeping me young.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
You don't need any help.
I've seen your dance moves.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
That's fine.
Yeah, well, seriously, though,thank you so much, and on our
website, we'd like to includesome of the acronyms and tips
that you gave to, so that waythey can serve as resources for
other parents.
We have a lot of friends whoare also educators that listen
to the podcast, that I thinkthat this would just be great
for just tools in their toolboxas well, if they'd already have
(26:51):
them in there.
So all of that information willbe on our new and improved
website, which is launching withseason five as well.
So, thank you, and we're goingto share all of that stuff with
our listeners too, because mynotes on a post-it aren't going
to cut it.
I need to look it up.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yes, you can find that resource Dr Thomas created
for us.
It is posted to our websiteunder resources.
And check us out on socialmedia the Lylas podcast, and at
the Lylas podcastcom until nextweek, y'all Lylas.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.