May 5, 2025 • 51 mins
This is a spicy re-release from Season 4! Through our candid conversation, we explore what constitutes appropriate interaction versus potential disrespect to your partner. Is it about the content of your conversations? The frequency? The settings in which they occur? We discover that the intimacy shared, rather than merely the existence of the relationship, often serves as the true boundary marker. While casual workplace interactions might be perfectly fine, regular private messaging about personal matters might signal crossing a line, regardless of innocent intentions.
Agree? Disagree? Have a thought? Share it with us by texting the show or on social media!
Also, Season 5 is coming soon! We have already recorded some killer episodes with a variety of guests!
Please be sure to checkout our website for previous episodes, our psych-approved resource page, and connect with us on social media! All this and more at www.thelylaspodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guess who it is?
Sarah Stevens with the LylasPodcast, with another re-release
from season four.
Just to be honest, jen and Ireally love season four, and we
hope that you enjoyed listeningto it as much as we liked
recording it and talking aboutthese topics.
If you happen to miss this one,though, we would love to
revisit it and hear yourthoughts, your comments, maybe,
(00:22):
if you agree or disagree with us.
This topic is are platonicrelationships possible?
This was a spicy episode, um,and it was fun to talk about
because there's a lot of lot ofthings to think about.
So be sure to tune in, give usyour thoughts, feelings and
feedback, and again, season fiveis coming your way with a fresh
(00:44):
, new look, new sound, newwebsite, new social media, all
the jam, just to get ready forSeason 5.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Welcome to LILAS.
I feel like changing it uptoday.
So I'm going to say LILASstands for Love.
You Like a Sis, but if you're abro, we love you too.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Welcome everybody.
Thanks for tuning in again toseason four, which we are
cooking through with hot and funtopics.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
That's right, and episode 69, coming in hot.
So before we get to that, Ijust want to note that today is
the day after Halloween and ifyou're a parent, you probably
feel a little hungover not fromdrinking last night, but I don't
know.
Halloween just like knocks meout.
I don't know if it's the latenight or if it's the sugar
(01:44):
filled kids, it's the dressingup.
You know, halloween used to belike one night when we were kids
.
Now it's like you have yourneighborhood party, you have
trunk or treat, then you haveactual Halloween.
I'm so over Halloween by thetime it gets here.
It was like if I have to putthis costume on one more time,
I'm gonna lose it.
I'll just paint my face and,you know, put a wig on my kid
(02:05):
one more time.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Just done, done I was so done.
Already taken down thedecorations by the way Ripped
them down at 530 this morning.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Couldn't take it.
I was like moving onThanksgiving, here we go.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
We're done.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Done.
Do you feel that way?
You halloween am?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I just like what is no, it is a lot of work like
going to like the school andhaving halloween parties and
stuff.
I mean I just maybe I just gettoo overstimulated in that kind
of environment.
I don't really like beingaround.
I don't like being around awhole bunch of kids anyways, I'm
just going to say it Especiallyyoung ones.
(02:48):
I just don't.
I can take like a few of them,but I'm not going to be ashamed
of that anymore.
You know what?
I have kids.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I love them to death, but it's not my thing, that's
okay.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And so that's a lot, and then I do like seeing like
the costumes and I absolutelylove decorating our house and I
love what Halloween symbolizes,because to me it means that it's
the one holiday that we havewhere you can and everybody gets
celebrated for their uniqueness, their creativity to be daring
and there's just not any realjudgment that gets passed on it.
(03:37):
You know so.
It's the only holiday that'struly like that.
So I love what it symbolizes,but I do not like cause we just
don't.
Sugar in our house is used forrescue.
It's not used as a treat.
You know what I mean.
We just have a differentrelationship with it, and so it
just does not.
It's just not.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, I find I don't love candy anymore, like I was
looking at my kids candy and I'mlike I had one little pack of
like peanut M&Ms and I wasunderwhelmed and um.
I was like you know, I justdon't love candy anymore.
I don't know if it's changing.
You know they say your tastebuds change, but it's just not
the same.
I used to dig like a Milky Way.
I just not even remotelyintrigued by it anymore.
(04:13):
I don't know, I don't mean tohate on Halloween and I do love
your take on it, but honestly,because it's true it is, and
it's so fun for the kids andthat's why so much effort, or
you know, put so much effortinto bringing the magic.
But I'm just tired.
I think that boils down to I'mtired, so anyway, it has nothing
(04:35):
to do with today's topic.
I just really needed to getthat off my chest.
I'm done with Halloween.
I'm glad I don't have to see itfor another 365.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
There you go, cheers, cheers, you go, cheers.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Cheers to that.
So today's topic I am veryexcited to talk about this
because I had girls night lastweek and posed this question to
my girlfriends and got someinteresting responses.
My husband and I had a datenight.
I posed this question to him.
(05:06):
He kind of like changed my mindwith his response because I,
you know I was like okay.
So I'm excited to talk aboutthis and I'm just going to pose
the question to you and get yourresponse.
Can 40-year-olds and you don'thave to be 40, let's say 30,
right?
Can married, happily marriedadults have platonic
(05:30):
relationships with the oppositesex or same sex?
If you're homosexual, I'm justlike it.
Can we have platonicrelationships?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I mean, I guess, to get in the full weeds of it.
To me, I think it depends onhow that's defined, Like, if you
have work friends and they havework friends, you guys probably
hang out, you probably see eachother as each other's friends
and spend time together.
But and maybe I'm going to takea very conservative stance on
(06:04):
this, and again I'm going totake a very conservative stance
on this and again I'm going tobe unapologetic about it I just
don't think that there will everbe a time in my life where it
is going to be okay for myhusband to be texting another
woman as they identify as awoman how?
(06:24):
If that is how you identify,then you are that woman.
It is not okay for you to betexting my husband, I don't know
, at night while I'm laying inhis bed.
That's not okay.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Or him texting her.
So let's not, we're not doingthat.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Right.
That to me is a bigger cross oflines and I'm just even though
we have a trusting, loving,great relationship, that kind of
thing happening does not workfor me and I don't think it
would really work for him either.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So that's my, that's my hot take on it, yeah it's a
it's a no-go in this house.
It's funny you said that likedefine platonic relationship,
because when I posed thisquestion to my husband on date
night, he said the same thing.
He said, well, define what youmean by that.
Is that like you know a workfriend, like you're saying, like
(07:15):
somebody you see every day,even if it's virtually?
You know, you might, you knowif you get on a call early you
might be sharing like personalinformation of like my kids are
dressed up as this.
You know those types of things.
Those are sort of like friendlyconversations, and so I was
like, okay, that's a good point.
Like, define what that is.
Is that like messaging somebody?
Is that spending time with themaway from your significant
other?
You know, like, I think you dohave to put some definition into
(07:39):
that.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
But ultimately, when I was thinking about this topic
and kind of like, hey, I just Ithink it's a good topic because
growing up I thought I wasalways really good at having
platonic relationships, likealmost prided myself on that.
You know, I've had supervisorsthat were men and as a woman,
like you know, we get hit on alot.
(08:02):
I'm just going it like thereare into window, in you, windows
I don't even know how to saythat word, but you know there
are things that are said likeyou are, you know, if somebody's
sort of like putting the feelerout there, for lack of a better
term.
But I always sort of pridedmyself on being able to be like
ain't got a chance, like, yeah,we can be friends, and it stops
(08:25):
here.
But when I posed this questionto my husband, he was like, no,
I don't think that you can havea platonic relationship.
Um, he was like.
You know, he was like becausehe was like, honestly, jenny, he
was like it was something yousaid to me, you know, almost 20
years ago, when you were in gradschool, I had this professor
that sort of talked aboutrelationships as a home right
(08:47):
and that if you start having youknow they could be very general
conversations, like it couldstart that way.
Or maybe one day you hop on andyou're on with somebody and you
start oh, my wife and I got in ahuge fight this morning and
blah, blah, blah.
He explained it as like you'reopening a window you're opening
an opportunity for something totranspire.
(09:09):
And it could be that you didn'teven mean to, but once you start
to share those types of deepconversations and things, that
you are opening the doors andwindows to your home, to your
relationship, for something tohappen.
And it's like that stuck withme and he was like that's why he
was on a work trip recently andhe got there and this woman I
(09:33):
think she's like in her 60s, butit was just the two of them
there and everybody else wascoming the next day and she was
like well, do you want to gograb dinner?
and he was like no, I'm gonnagrab dinner by myself, like
we'll do dinner as a grouptomorrow.
And he was like no, I'm goingto grab dinner by myself, Like
we'll do dinner as a grouptomorrow.
And he was like I do that outof respect for you.
Like I'm obviously notinterested in this woman.
She's 20 years older than me.
But he was like it's still megoing out to dinner with another
(09:55):
woman.
Talk about this kind of stuffLike I don't ask him who he goes
into.
I have 100% trust in my husband.
Almost probably like to a faultLike I would be so blindsided.
Um and I hope he feels the sameway.
I mean, I just you know like Iwould be so blindsided if
something ever happened, but Iwas like, huh, I had never
(10:17):
really thought about that.
Um, and I've got some otherexamples but, and we've had lots
of you know a lot of goodconversation, but it was
interesting when I went andposed this at girls night.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
It was almost like divided.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
It was like, yeah, and so I just that's why I think
this is such an interestingtopic, because even within my
girl group, um, one of mygirlfriends is really good
friends with one of the othergirlfriends husbands, like, they
have been really good friendsfor a long time and so she
looked at her and was like isthat weird, that so-and-so and I
went to a football gametogether and she's like no, no,
no, like because it's not arepeated thing you know, you all
(10:56):
did that one time two years ago, and so I think too, my, when
Jeff and I were talking aboutthis, he was like he he had said
something similar.
He was like is it repeatedinteraction or is it like you
talk once?
Hey, how you doing?
Haven't seen you in 10 years.
Hope you're doing well.
Have a nice day.
You know he was like or is thisyou're communicating with
(11:16):
regularly?
I was like okay, I think that'sfair right.
Yeah, like if it's regularcommunication, you know it might
be a platonic relationship, butit's not okay if you're in a
committed relationship, To mostpeople that's going to make them
feel uncomfortable, even if itis completely platonic.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, no, I agree, and I don't think that's about a
person's insecurity or, again,lack of trust within the other
partner.
I just think it comes down tohaving a healthy boundary and
definitions of what that lookslike and again, I'm not going to
(11:58):
sugarcoat that or be apologeticto it, because that would that
would take away my feelingsabout something that are very,
very important to me and I doappreciate, you know, what your
Jeff said in terms of you knowhow is that defined?
Is this repetitive?
You know, um, the fact that itdoes open a door.
You know I I just don't thinkthat in any of the work
(12:22):
relationships I've had withsomebody am I going in there and
bitching about my family life.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
You know, I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Right, you know, and even if it's with our work,
friends, we're talking aboutthings within a group of people,
not an isolated, you know, kindof one on one where I'm going
out and having coffee with thisone person.
Right, right or anything elselike that, and I just I don't.
I don't think that there'sanything wrong with saying no.
(12:52):
I'm not comfortable with thistype of relationship and I would
almost, I would almost beworried if there is argument on
the other side, you know,because that just doesn't, that
doesn't fit right either.
You know, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Like me.
You know like I was sayinginitially when Jeff and I were
having this conversation.
I'm like but I know me and likeyou know me, you know that like
I would never, like that's justnot.
That's not who I am.
You know I was a product ofdivorce.
I grew up because of an affairthat occurred and like, that's
not what I want for my kids,that's not what I want for
myself.
Like we're in a very you know,obviously loving, committed
relationship, so I'm like youwould never have anything to
(13:33):
worry about.
Like I said, I've always sortof prided myself on that.
I can engage in completelyplatonic relationships, but the
bottom line is, if it makes yoursignificant other feel
uncomfortable, then it's notokay, right?
I mean, like if you're, ifyou're truly committed and you
want to have a healthyrelationship, then you don't
(13:55):
want to do anything that makesthem feel to even like have
thoughts of comfort or wonderingor anything like that.
Yeah, um, you know, like I said, he kind of changed my mind
over the course of it.
Now, my one girlfriend that wassort of singing the same tune
that I was, because she isfriends with another friend's
husband and like was friendswith him before they got
(14:18):
together, right, and of coursenow like we're all really close
friends, but, um, you know, shewas like I feel like I can have
platonic relationships and Ithink, ultimately, whether you
think you can or you can't,that's not the that's not the
point.
The point is like, does it makeyour, your person, feel
uncomfortable, right, or is itsome sort of like disrespect
(14:40):
towards them?
And I had, honestly, I don'tknow if I'm the only person that
feels this way.
I had never thought of itbefore, like the disrespect to
the other person.
Yeah, and it's not like I'm outhere, like having you know, but
like you know it's it's um, it'sinteresting, cause I think back
, you know, when I was pregnantwith Jack and I worked with this
(15:04):
guy at the middle school and orright before before I got
pregnant with Jack, I had lostmy dad and he lost his dad in
the same way, and you know Iwould talk to him about it and
just you know, because I couldand he could really relate to
that and I'm like that to me wasa very platonic relationship.
But in hindsight, like you knowI mean again, this was like 10
(15:25):
years ago but in hindsight, likehaving this conversation now
like probably wasn't the bestidea, like you know, I don't
know, it's just hard, becausewhen you're grieving.
You're kind of looking forsomebody that can really relate
to you and understand whatyou're going through.
And you know he was kind ofthat person at that time.
(15:46):
You know his room, his, hisclassroom was right across from
my office.
I would see him early in themornings.
He'd be like how you doing, youknow it just.
But in hindsight, like if thatwere to happen today, in present
time, I don't know that I wouldengage in the same way.
Yeah, like just even likesharing like my grief with
somebody.
But I don't know, I'm like, youknow my friend Claire, who I,
(16:08):
you know I love Claire becauseshe just says it like it is.
Yeah, shout out to Clairebecause Claire will just tell
you like it is.
But you know, I said to thegroup, I said you know Jeff says
that like a man, you know, andI'm going to assume,
heterosexual man, if a man isengaging with a woman, he was
like there's some level ofinterest.
He was like we're typically notlooking for like girl friends,
(16:35):
and my friend Claire is likewell, that like why the fuck not
?
You know what is it you likecan't be friends with a woman
even if she's attractive, evenif she's.
You know what is it you likecan't be friends with a woman,
even if she's attractive, evenif she's, you know, like why
does it only have to be likesome sort of underlying, like
desire there for you to engagein any kind of friendship?
(16:56):
And I was like again, like goodpoint, claire.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Again like you're.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
You're telling me that men can't have just like a
girlfriend.
You know what I mean?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, and I think that the intimacy or the sharing
that takes place between bothparties is also, you know, a
component of is this okay or notOkay?
So, like I, that's just.
Maybe that's just my opinion.
Again, this is all just myopinion on it.
But no, I don't think that itwould be okay for me to go out
(17:34):
and have lunch with a guy friendand sit there and bitch about
jeff all the time you know, ortalk about how bad things are
cut out like the bitch about him.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
What if you were talking about?
What if it was somebody elsethat was a type 1 diabetic and
you all and is also a longdistance runner and you are
going out and like having coffee, to like talk about the big
race that's coming up andsharing like some tips on what
you're.
What am I doing?
What are you doing?
How are you keeping your bloodlike?
I'm just throwing out an example, like something completely
(18:04):
aside from your relationshipwith your husband, something
like very targeted, very likebecause I know you know men in
the running community like youknow, like that to me is a
platonic relationship, likeyou're my friend, you're helping
me plan for this, you'rehelping me with my training,
like almost in a coaching kindof like situation, I mean with
(18:31):
my training, like almost in acoaching kind of like situation,
I could see that, you know,being okay personally, yeah, I
mean I've never met that person.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I'd play the lottery in that same day.
You know, it would be reallycool to meet somebody else who
has that condition and does thisstuff.
I know a few, but they startedafter I did.
I coached them through it, soit's never been the other way
around Same thing.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Like you're, let's say you're coaching them.
Let's say, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I it was never done alone, though.
I would never meet with anybodyalone to do something like that
.
It'd be like well, I'm going toRoberts, are you going to go to
?
It's a running store around ourneighborhood, so you know I'm
going there, you go in there orbe on a group run with other
people.
I would not meet those peoplealone.
I just wouldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
What if they were messaging and saying, like
asking you questions via message, would you just like not
respond?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, I would probably do a post about it, or
I would tell Jeff that somebodyis messaging me about a run, and
I'd include him in theconversation of it, or to let
him know that it was happening.
And that's again what it wouldstick to, and so the content of
the conversation is very limitedto a very specific area, and so
, therefore, my interactionswith this person are not going
(19:43):
to be, you know, in thatrepetitive nature or in that in
those other kinds of qualifiersthat we're putting out there.
So it's not going to, theconversation is not going to go
past.
Carry some shit on you, youknow, test your sugar if you
feel bad and then have arecovery plan.
I mean, that's pretty much it,but it's just not going to go
(20:07):
outside the terms and conditionsof the relationship, and I'm
not also going to engage in itwithout talking to him first.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Okay, so you would just be extremely transparent
essentially is what you'resaying Like can read my messages
.
This is what we're talkingabout.
Yes, I'm going back and forthwith this person, but I'm just
trying to give them, you know,some tips and things that
they're asking specifically for.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, and even if I did that, it would be incredibly
limited, but that's just.
I don't think that again, wecould put out any situation
that's out there and I guaranteethere's going to be somebody
else better than me to answer it, and that you know you should.
Probably I'll lead you in thedirection of finding somebody
else that you can talk to aboutthis, but I'm not going to be
your person.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
So you know, I'll mention other people.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, I just am not going to do it because I have so
much I'm not going to.
I have so much respect for himand what I'm asking of him.
I'm not going to be the potcalling the kettle black within
this.
You know what I mean, kind of athing.
So if I'm not, if I don't thinkit's okay, then I'm not going
to engage in it myself, becausethen what am I telling him?
That's a big mismessage.
(21:15):
Well, I can do it because Itrust and I know myself, but you
know, it's just, and that'sfair.
Yeah, it's just not.
It's just not something thatI'm down with.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
So yeah, I mean, like I said when I, when I you and I
first, you know, we always kindof come up with some topic
ideas and when I posed thisquestion I felt very strongly
that we could have platonicrelationships.
But the more I listened topeople with a differing view
which hello we could all dobetter at that.
(21:45):
Differing a few, which hello wecould all do better at that.
Right, like, consider the otherside of things, the other side
of the coin.
You know it has changed my mindin that it really comes down to
like respect for your partnerand, you know, just wanting to
protect what you have because itis so sacred and you just don't
ever want to open the door foranything to happen.
(22:07):
Like, and I and you know I dolike part of me is sad about
that just because, not that Ihave like all these male friends
.
That's not what I'm saying, butyou know it's more of um, I
don't know it's like like wecan't be friends Like.
You know what I mean.
Like there is like it annoys methat everything has some sort
of underlying sexual tension andI'm like, why does it have to
(22:31):
be that way?
Like, why?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
That or intimacy and I.
It doesn't even have to be in asituation where there could be
a you know sexual attractivenessor anything else, so let's take
that out of it.
It's just the intimacy ofsharing deep and personal things
with someone else that is notsomeone of the same sex or
identity as your partner.
(22:54):
That's where the thing is withme.
Take sexual interest out.
Some situations that might noteven be the issue, but it's the
sharing of intimate personalrelationship or items with that
other person.
That just that's the icky forme.
Like that's where it's justlike you know you got these guys
(23:16):
.
Can you not just talk to themabout whatever's going on?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Or you have your girlfriend, but men don't talk
about stuff like that.
They don't Like.
I have men reach out to me thatI went to college with.
They listen to the podcast andyou know they're like I've been
struggling with my mental healthand you know they get kind of
specific on what they'restruggling with and I'm always,
like you know, gracious,obviously, and grateful that
they hey, that they support thispodcast and, you know, even
(23:43):
feel comfortable reaching outand telling me this.
I will say it usually stopsafter like one message, like
it's not a back and forth typeof thing, but you know, I mean,
I feel like men don't talk toeach other about stuff like that
.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
I don't know, I mean that's kind of on them if they
don't.
But doesn't mean it's okay foryou to go talk to.
You know, sally down the roadabout it.
You know, if you're and I'lleven go as far as this Okay, go
see a professional.
You know, I would say that mypatient population when I was
working was, most of the time Idon't know 53% guys and the
(24:24):
other 47 female.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I like how specific you got about that.
Like why not just say 50, 50?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Cause, it just wasn't .
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And it wasn't so much .
Yeah, it's just like 60, 40,something like that.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, it was again, it was a real teeter totter, but
it was always that there weremore of them.
But I think it also came downto the nature of what I was
working with you know, I mean.
I was doing a lot of work and soyou know there aren't tear a
huge amount of females in themilitary or that are first
responders or that are, you know, physicians and doing other
things, whatever, but yeah so,but even even in that point, go
(25:01):
talk to one of them.
Things are that bad or you'reon the struggle bus.
I'm happy to point you in adirection of somebody you can
talk to about it, but again,that person is not going to be
me, Because that also, just itjust blurs way too many lines
and I'm just especially, I guess, whenever it comes to that area
, it is not appropriate for meto be your shoulder to talk to,
(25:25):
because you're pulling too muchout of me and out of a reservoir
that's saved for, honestly, aprofessional realm that I should
not be talking about this withyou.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So what about your husband's friends?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I mean, I think that that's the point.
They're his friends.
You know, am I friends withthem?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I was gonna say do you consider them your friends?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, I consider them our friends.
But if you were to kind ofsketch it back, the origin of
the relationship did not involveme.
The origin of the relationshipinvolved him being friends with
other people, and so at thatpoint too, it's not like I'm
going out and hanging out withhis friends or sitting there and
texting and kind of get a holdof you know, or chit chatting or
(26:11):
anything else.
Whenever we see our friends,it's our friends together.
You know, it's never any othertype of dynamic.
If I'm trying to plan asurprise party at the office,
I'm texting all 10 of them,right, we're having a surprise
party.
I need you to help to geteverybody there, keep him out of
the office, do whatever youknow.
(26:31):
But again, I think that that'sa different thing and I don't
think that he would becomfortable with me
communicating with any of hisfriends through text and having
my own individual relationshipwith them.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So I could be wrong, but I don't think, so I'm going
to have to ask my husbandbecause I will say my husband's
very best friend.
I definitely have like afriendship, you know, like we
are friends.
We're definitely, like you know,same thing, like anytime I see
him, we're all together, like Iwould.
You know, I'm not going to gosee him.
No, if I was, like in the city,yeah, I would go see him, for
sure, I'd go have a cup ofcoffee because I do believe my
(27:09):
husband would be okay with that.
But I'm going to have to askhim because, like, we text each
other like you know stupid stuff, like we have ongoing jokes and
sometimes it's like me andanother wife of the group and
this friend I mean it's justlike very best friend of the
group and this friend I meanit's Jeff's like very best
(27:29):
friend, um, and so you know, hehas never said anything like and
I always say, like I wastexting with so-and-so today and
he generally laughs or sayswhat do you say?
You know, whatever, like wehave conversations about it, but
that's a great point.
Like I didn't bring that one upwhen we were talking about this,
like, was that ever botheredyou, that so-and-so and I text
back and forth, or that we havea group chat with out you in it,
you know, with some of theother like wives of the friend
(27:51):
group?
Um, he probably wouldn't have,you know, I'm thinking he's
gonna say that doesn't botherhim, but I can't wait to find
out his answer.
Right, we did not talk aboutthat.
And that's such a great examplelike that's another great
example like he knows thisperson very well, trust this
person with his whole heart Imean he, you know and so I am
(28:16):
very intrigued to hear hisanswer to this yeah, I know that
it would not fly in thatscenario.
It's so interesting because I'mlike it is like just what we
talked about, like it is, Iwould say, semi-regular
communication.
I you know, maybe like once amonth or it depends, like if
we've just seen them, I get moretext messages, whatever, um,
(28:37):
those types of things.
But you know, usually it'sstuff like about my husband.
Like you know how excited isjeff to see me this week.
You know it's like silly, fun,funny stuff.
Like that you know I'll be like, oh, he hasn't slept in days.
Like you know how excited isJeff to see me this week.
You know it's like silly, fun,funny stuff.
Like that you know I'll be like, oh, he hasn't slept in days.
Like you know he's beencounting down on his calendar.
Like you know, like we kind oflike go back and forth but I
guess that's what I mean andthat like I feel like you can
(29:00):
have a platonic relationshipLike I.
I go back and forth, Icompletely see the other side
and I think there you got to putcontext in it Like does your
person know the other person?
And I'm not saying that'salways right, right, because we
know that.
Like you know that that's howI've known of other affairs,
like in neighborhoods where youknow they were couples who were
(29:22):
best friends and then all of asudden, like two people were
peeling off and hanging outtogether and it evolved into
something else.
I think certainly, if you arehanging out with someone else on
a regular basis, out yoursignificant other like that is
definitely a hard no, yeah, butI will say like I do feel like I
have a very good platonicrelationship with my husband's
(29:44):
best friend Almost, like I feellike he would be sad if we
didn't have a good friendshipbecause they're so close and
like that's his other than me.
That's his person.
You know yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I hear you, I know, but I just, I don't, I just
can't think of a situation inwhich that would be okay or it
would be okay.
I don't think that he thinksthat it would be okay for me to
sit there and text his very bestfriends, which, either way, all
work for him.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
What if Jeff texted me?
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I think, again, it comes down to the context and
everything else that was goingon, because, as you all listened
to the race recap, you guyswere texting for like six months
and I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
That was the next thing I was going to say.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
But I think that what you were talking about was not
of any intimacy, and I thinkthat that comes down to as a
qualifier for me.
Yeah, I don't think that youshould be having intimate
conversations about yourpersonal life with someone that
identifies as, or is, theopposite sex, and that is just
(30:57):
how I feel about it.
And so, again, the intimacy ofthe conversation is the
qualifier for me, and that doesinclude how often, what type?
Do I know this person on my own?
Is this person someone I'veever met before?
You know, I'm just not.
It's just not a realm that I'mokay with.
(31:18):
So, and I'm pretty sure youguys aren't still texting now.
You know the race has been overRight.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
So again there's the point.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You know the race has been over.
Yeah, I mean right, right.
So again, there's the point.
It was for a very sweet andsurprise-based thing, um the.
There was not a whole lot ofintimacy that is being shared or
talked about or discussed, orthis, that and the other
logistics, yeah and so again,okay, but it's.
I think where it crosses theline is intimacy being the
qualifier.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I think that's fair, like putting some parameters on,
like exactly how you'reengaging in conversation with
with that other person.
Yeah, like every now and thenyour Jeff will text me, like
when you lose your phone orhe'll be like sending me
pictures of you, of you know,know, like, if you're right,
like that, like that kind ofstuff, but I always feel like
(32:08):
it's you telling him to text me,like those kinds of situations
where it's like hey, sarah losther phone, or sarah's phone's
dead or right working, you knowsomething to that degree she
finished, or here's a picture,right, right.
Those types of conversationsit's never like well, how you
doing, jenny, like those typesof things we're not having, you
(32:29):
know right, and that's the,that's the boundary, that's the
parameter you know what I meanand that's fine, and there's
nothing again wrong with thatkind of a thing.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
But if it extends beyond that point, then that's
where it starts to become verymurky.
It's like being out at sea atthat point.
You're just, you're out in thedeep now.
So, and I just what?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
do you do, like let's say, you engage in that, and
then like I mean, like what ifsomebody is listening to this
and they're like shit, like I Idefinitely have had like a
conversation with somebody atwork, or like we go on work
trips and yeah, we go for coffee, or like you know, I was being
there for somebody when theywere going through a hard time
(33:10):
Like do you feel it's necessaryto then like go back and and
then like explain that to yoursignificant other and like you
know what I mean, likeretroactively, just be like hey,
I just need you to know.
Is it worth it to like even putthose thoughts in their head?
Or is it like I've changed myview on things and, just moving
(33:34):
forward, I'm going to operate ina different manner?
Like what are your thoughts onthat?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I like the latter part better, but again, I think
that if you're having thosethoughts about but again, I
think that if you're havingthose thoughts about could this
be, could my partner get upsetthat I've been doing this, then
you probably know you shouldn'thave been doing it.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
No, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Throw that out there first, if you're thinking that
your partner is going to beupset about the conversations
you're having with somebody,then you should feel the need to
hide it.
Right, you should be doing itthat should be a red flag to you
.
Right, and whether that's a redflag on your bad or on their bad
or whatever else, it doesn'tmatter.
You shouldn't be doing it Right.
So I guess that is my answer,and then if you do find yourself
(34:17):
in that situation, then I meanI'm a person of full
transparency.
I would just be like, look, Iheard this podcast.
I don't.
I realize now that this isprobably not okay.
Because of me listening to this,I'm feeling like kind of yucky
and squeamish because, I may notbe honoring you in the way that
I should, and I just want youto know that I, even if you're
(34:40):
okay with this, I'm sorry andI'm not going to continue to do
it because it doesn't feel rightto me.
I think that that's fine, youknow, um, but if you're feeling
icky about it, you shouldn't bedoing it.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment.
Um, yeah, and I think too, justlike having the conversation,
like if you're on a date night,like having this, just to see
where your significantunderstands on this, I think, is
interesting, because it did.
We had some pretty deepconversations and it never got
like you know, heated oranything.
(35:12):
I mean we're sitting at the barhaving dinner and you know we
talked about another scenario,one that you know I'm not going
to go into too much detailbecause I do want to protect my
friends and you know, like Idon't want to like share
anything that would ever makeanyone that I love feel
uncomfortable.
Um, but you know, I I posed aspecific example to him and he
(35:38):
was like, actually that didn'tmake me feel uncomfortable and I
was like what I mean?
I was floored, honestly floored, and if I gave you the context
of this, I think some otherpeople might be floored.
That that, you know, botheredhim, but, honestly, I would have
never in a million yearsthought that that would, because
, again, like our relationshipis so strong and this was really
(36:00):
coming from a very genuinehelper, like trying to be
helpful in the situation, trulyjust trying to like be there for
somebody that was going throughit.
Yeah, um, and you know, when hewas like actually that did make
me feel uncomfortable, I waslike, oh damn, you know, like I
(36:20):
I didn't even know and I waslike I'm so sorry, like I would
have never, ever done anythingto make you feel uncomfortable.
So it did help us to at leastlike acknowledge that I would
have never, ever, done anythingto make you feel uncomfortable.
So it did help us to at leastlike acknowledge that he would
have never told me that on hisown had I not posed this
question to him or like broughtthis up, um, and so I think just
having this conversation canreally, you know whether you
(36:42):
feel one way or the other, kindof enlighten you to how your
partner feels about platonicrelationships.
And I think you do have todefine them, as we've said a
couple of times, like you dohave to define what you mean by
that.
You know, like hanging outwithout your significant other
having regular communication,having intimate communication,
(37:03):
and that doesn't mean likesexual, just like, you know,
like deep thoughts, deepthoughts by Jenny, or detail, as
we all think in this house,like just sharing those sort of
like intimate feelings that noone else knows, right?
Intimate I don't know thedefinition of it, but I'm pretty
sure it's like not notwell-known, right?
(37:25):
Maybe like only a few peopleknow or only you know, like
those types of things.
We don't mean intimate and likegetting hot and heavy.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
No, no, I mean, that's definitely off the table.
You know what I mean, but Ijust think that there's a
there's a different level of umcrossing a line that you just I
don't know you need to be awareof and you shouldn't do, and I
don't think that that's metrying to control a person's
relationship or say that youcan't be friends with somebody.
(37:56):
This is about me and myrelationship with you and what
I'm okay with happening or not.
If you want to twist this aroundand make it about you, then
there's a bigger problem hereyou know.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
so boundaries and stick into it, Right.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Right, right.
And again, if you're, let's go.
I mean, if I want to train forsomething, if I want to do
something I know somebody elseis doing it I'm going to talk to
my husband first before I goand talk to that other person
and be like hey, I found out,there's somebody else that knows
X, y and Z about this.
Is it okay with you if I reachout and send them a message and
talk to them about it and justsee what their feedback is?
(38:30):
And if he says yes, then okay.
But then that's where it ends.
You know, it's not like we'regoing to go out and then meet up
on a trail and I'm going to goon a run with them.
I'm just going to be like, okay.
I said to Jeff I'm like you,work out at a gym with really
hot women.
They're hot, they're all.
Hot they are.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
And the trainers are hot and you know, and I was like
I'm certain that you don't sitthere quietly in class.
I'm certain that you haveconversations with these women,
you know, but like that doesn'tbother me because I don't know,
it just has never bothered me.
(39:12):
I'm like I could go to that gymtoo.
I used to go, I just don't goanymore.
I'm like, but I'm like you know, what point does that also like
cross that boundary?
Like I see this person everymorning, I have a conversation
with them every morning.
You know, I said I think for meit would be like if, like you
(39:33):
were, they do a lot of likegroup activities outside of the
gym, like run club, they have asocial and stuff.
Like I was like if you weretrying to go to those things
without me, but like my spideysense up, yeah well, why can't I
go too?
Or why am I not invite you know?
right and so I guess for methat's where that like boundary
(39:54):
is.
It's like I'm not saying youcan't like have womenit chats,
chit chat, but you're not liketelling them you know, well, my
(40:20):
wife is, you know, my wife'sreally put on some weight here
lately.
Sure wish she'd come back tothe gym, you know you're not
having those types ofconversations.
Yeah, or you're not textingthat person outside of the gym,
like even for me, like if, oreven getting their number for
that matter right, why are wedoing this?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
You know, then, that's it's.
I totally see that happening.
I mean, we're friendly people,Our husbands are friendly people
, very social creatures, butagain, I'm not going to text
somebody that I just saw at thegym and I don't think that he's
going to either, you know,because again, that's a reach
outside of that.
You know, going into a workoutplace and seeing the same people
(41:01):
every day, you know, it'swhenever that, then that's fine.
Nice little chit chats,encouragement, whatever else.
But then how did you get thenumber?
You know?
How'd you get my number?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
And why Right?
How'd you get my number?
And why yeah?
What was the context of thenumber Mm-hmm Right.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, I saw this person, you know message me on
Facebook.
You know that's a look Like youhave to find people and that
takes intention in order to doit Like that's a premeditated
act.
So let's just go ahead andthrow that out there For
whatever purpose it still is,and so that feels pretty yuck
too.
(41:36):
I just call me old school.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I'll be, I'll wear that crown all day long on this
topic, but I'm just yeah, like Isaid, it definitely has changed
my perception of things to someextent.
You know, not not saying one isright or wrong.
Wrong, I think it's whatever isright for your relationship,
but I definitely see the otherside of the coin much clearer
now, you know, and I think I'llbe a little bit more moving,
(42:12):
like with intention, withconversations that I have.
You know, even if somebodyreaches out about the podcast or
um, you know, hey, haven't seenyou, your kids are cute, like I
think, just being intentionalin your responses, intentional
in boundary setting, intentionalin and in protecting your, your
(42:35):
significant other and theirfeelings, I think, yeah, that's
how I'll move forward withthings.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, that's fair, and I mean I just I, I hear you,
I mean, and I know that there'ssome people will die on
whatever hill that they stand onon these types of topics, and I
get it.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
But it's just Listen.
I would have two weeks ago, Iwould have died on that hill
saying you absolutely can haveplatonic relationships.
But I think that's why you havehard conversations like this.
Yeah, I do, because, eventhough I can say wholeheartedly,
I have never, not one time,thought about cheating on my
husband or done anything thatwould be considered cheating on
my husband, I will say I wouldhave.
(43:17):
I would have argued forever thatyou can have a platonic
relationship now, the minutethat he started.
You know, should that have everpresented itself as like him
having a platonic relationship?
I don't know that I would havehad the same feelings about it,
but to that point he has.
There's a woman that he used towork with that I know that like
(43:39):
they text sometimes about workand stuff like that and again
like that bothered me, because Iknow her, I know what they're
talking about Whenever he seesher.
We're all together.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Like those types of things.
But yeah, I think just it sortof makes you kind of take a step
back and really think about youknow, really protecting your,
your relationship.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, and I think that's just kind of what it
comes down to.
So and and just like again, Ithink if you're in that kind of
loving relationship, then youhave to take you out of it and
just you know, respect the factthat your partner is not okay
with this.
Yeah, I mean again.
I don't think that it's well.
(44:25):
You just don't trust me, youjust aren't.
You're trying to control me.
You're trying to say who I canand cannot be friends with.
I don't think that that's whatthis is about.
This is about again protectingintimacy between a couple and
honoring that, and steppingoutside of that boundary just
(44:46):
isn't okay.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I mean, that's just it Fair.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
That's how I'm going to die on the hill yeah, I was
very excited to talk about thisbecause I just the level of uh,
I don't know like passion fromthe conversations that I've had
with other people when we talkabout this I thought, oh, like,
hey, this is something we'venever talked about.
We'll have very differingopinions on this yeah, I'm so
(45:22):
glad you talked to it too withyour girl group to kind
of get that feedback too, sothat was good yeah, I thought it
was interesting how divided itwas um and how, like we can, we
were like having theconversation and then it
continued like an hour laterlike we brought it back up again
because it was like well, howdid you feel about this?
Or what about this?
Or like I, sometimes I textyour husband, like you know,
(45:44):
because we do.
I think that's all when you'rein like kind of bigger friend
groups and everybody gets alongreally well and we're all like
really close you know what Imean.
Like go on vacations together,like those types of like
closeness, sure you know you dostart to be like well, does that
apply to this relation?
Does that apply to like?
Me texting your husband aboutlike his team one and you know
(46:07):
like is that inappropriate.
Like it led to a much biggerconversation amongst this group
of girlfriends because, like theRedskins won last Sunday, they
had a huge win, like at the lastsecond the ball got tipped
right into the receiver's hands.
I mean, it was huge, and we havea couple buddies who are huge
Redskins fans, so of course Itext them.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Holy shit, what an ending like great you know,
congrats, yeah, great winsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
But I'm like it does make you think like, is that
inappropriate?
Should I have not done thatShould I have included my
husband on that text messageMaybe so.
You know, it's just it, Ifnothing else.
It has got me thinking abouthow I communicate with other men
.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And so, if nothing else like yeah, it definitely
has me thinking about justrespecting him and his feelings.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Sure sure, no, I get it, I get it and it is.
I mean, this conversationitself is an intimate
conversation, you know in someways, but it's just yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Oh, like the conversation we're having, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Because it does.
It involves so much passion andvariables and insight to your
own self and to your partner andto your relationship and
towards other people and I don'tknow, I'm also.
Maybe this is a topic for adifferent day, but you know, I
think that we get caught up inthis idea, especially because
(47:34):
it's posted so much on, likesocial media.
It's in all these mainstreambooks that you're reading that
if you're not continuallyworking on aspects of yourself,
then you're just stayingstagnant and not willing to grow
.
But I think sometimes thatthat's not the appropriate
response.
I think that sometimes, throughour openness, our insights, our
(47:57):
self reflection, that what we'vereally done is come to this
kind of point within ourselfthat we're not willing to
concede this area of my life,and I feel strong enough right
now to say that.
And so that's not a sign ofweakness and me not being
willing to reach further or tochange my mind further.
This is actually me, respectingme and who I am, by also
(48:21):
setting this boundary, like no,you know what I've done a lot of
self-reflection about this, alot of thought, I've talked to
other people about it and justkind of deep down in my heart,
this is just who I am, this iswhat I believe, this is kind of
this is it, and I'm not.
That's where I'm done at.
Okay, I'll work on theself-development in this area,
this area, in this area, but onthis one I'm checking my own box
(48:43):
because I feel at this point,finally, at 42 or whatever,
confident enough to sit here andsay that and not to feel
ashamed for having my opinionabout it.
So again maybe a topic for adifferent day, because I just
feel like we get caught up inthat Like well, you need to just
continue to work onself-development and be open,
(49:05):
and I mean you hear it all thetime.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Your responsibility, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yeah, I mean, you see it all the time on like again,
like on social media.
You hear other people talkingabout it and this is a whole
industry of books right now.
But on the other side of that,sometimes people are just have
gotten the strength that theysay that it's not okay.
Then that's actually great.
That's actually the growth thatthey've come to in that point in
their life to say, no, why arewe shutting that down?
(49:31):
That's not okay either.
So, yeah, it just blows up somuch and then you just you get
hit with something whenever youwant to stand firm on it and I
just think sometimes it's justour job to be a tree yeah, if
it's something you know that youfeel so strongly about, for
sure.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
So well, I want to end on that, because I think
that I love how you just putthat and I think that that's a
great way to to end this, so um,might be your topic for the
next show yeah, it could betopic uh, number 70 coming in
hot uh so that also means thatwe are in the top one percent of
(50:12):
podcasts.
Did you know that just becausewe have so many episodes out?
I think I read somewhere, likemost shows don't make it past
seven episodes, or maybe it wasslightly more than that, but
we're rolling up on number 70.
So if you would like tocontinue to hear from us and
support the libelous podcast, wewould be so grateful for you to
(50:33):
leave a review.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, whether that be spotify or
apple, please leave us a review.
Let us know how we're doing.
Check us out on our website.
You can always find us at thelieless podcastcom, and then
also on instagram and facebook,even though sarah can't get into
our facebook anymore, um, we, Ithink we're going to try to
(50:54):
start a new one, if we canfigure that out.
Definitely our Instagram.
I am going to get better atposting.
That is definitely.
One of my main goals is to getout and really start to promote
this podcast, because it doesmean so much to us and we hope
that that it does to you as well.
So happy Friday, happy November1st.
Go take your Halloween shitdown, if you haven't already,
(51:19):
and see you next week, or chatnext week.
Until then, lila.
Guess who it is?
Sarah Stevens with the LylasPodcast, with another re-release
from season four.
Just to be honest, jen and Ireally love season four, and we
hope that you enjoyed listeningto it as much as we liked
recording it and talking aboutthese topics.
If you happen to miss this one,though, we would love to
revisit it and hear yourthoughts, your comments, maybe,
(00:22):
if you agree or disagree with us.
This topic is are platonicrelationships possible?
This was a spicy episode, um,and it was fun to talk about
because there's a lot of lot ofthings to think about.
So be sure to tune in, give usyour thoughts, feelings and
feedback, and again, season fiveis coming your way with a fresh
(00:44):
, new look, new sound, newwebsite, new social media, all
the jam, just to get ready forSeason 5.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Welcome to LILAS.
I feel like changing it uptoday.
So I'm going to say LILASstands for Love.
You Like a Sis, but if you're abro, we love you too.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Welcome everybody.
Thanks for tuning in again toseason four, which we are
cooking through with hot and funtopics.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
That's right, and episode 69, coming in hot.
So before we get to that, Ijust want to note that today is
the day after Halloween and ifyou're a parent, you probably
feel a little hungover not fromdrinking last night, but I don't
know.
Halloween just like knocks meout.
I don't know if it's the latenight or if it's the sugar
(01:44):
filled kids, it's the dressingup.
You know, halloween used to belike one night when we were kids
.
Now it's like you have yourneighborhood party, you have
trunk or treat, then you haveactual Halloween.
I'm so over Halloween by thetime it gets here.
It was like if I have to putthis costume on one more time,
I'm gonna lose it.
I'll just paint my face and,you know, put a wig on my kid
(02:05):
one more time.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Just done, done I was so done.
Already taken down thedecorations by the way Ripped
them down at 530 this morning.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Couldn't take it.
I was like moving onThanksgiving, here we go.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
We're done.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Done.
Do you feel that way?
You halloween am?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I just like what is no, it is a lot of work like
going to like the school andhaving halloween parties and
stuff.
I mean I just maybe I just gettoo overstimulated in that kind
of environment.
I don't really like beingaround.
I don't like being around awhole bunch of kids anyways, I'm
just going to say it Especiallyyoung ones.
(02:48):
I just don't.
I can take like a few of them,but I'm not going to be ashamed
of that anymore.
You know what?
I have kids.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I love them to death, but it's not my thing, that's
okay.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And so that's a lot, and then I do like seeing like
the costumes and I absolutelylove decorating our house and I
love what Halloween symbolizes,because to me it means that it's
the one holiday that we havewhere you can and everybody gets
celebrated for their uniqueness, their creativity to be daring
and there's just not any realjudgment that gets passed on it.
(03:37):
You know so.
It's the only holiday that'struly like that.
So I love what it symbolizes,but I do not like cause we just
don't.
Sugar in our house is used forrescue.
It's not used as a treat.
You know what I mean.
We just have a differentrelationship with it, and so it
just does not.
It's just not.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, I find I don't love candy anymore, like I was
looking at my kids candy and I'mlike I had one little pack of
like peanut M&Ms and I wasunderwhelmed and um.
I was like you know, I justdon't love candy anymore.
I don't know if it's changing.
You know they say your tastebuds change, but it's just not
the same.
I used to dig like a Milky Way.
I just not even remotelyintrigued by it anymore.
(04:13):
I don't know, I don't mean tohate on Halloween and I do love
your take on it, but honestly,because it's true it is, and
it's so fun for the kids andthat's why so much effort, or
you know, put so much effortinto bringing the magic.
But I'm just tired.
I think that boils down to I'mtired, so anyway, it has nothing
(04:35):
to do with today's topic.
I just really needed to getthat off my chest.
I'm done with Halloween.
I'm glad I don't have to see itfor another 365.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
There you go, cheers, cheers, you go, cheers.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Cheers to that.
So today's topic I am veryexcited to talk about this
because I had girls night lastweek and posed this question to
my girlfriends and got someinteresting responses.
My husband and I had a datenight.
I posed this question to him.
(05:06):
He kind of like changed my mindwith his response because I,
you know I was like okay.
So I'm excited to talk aboutthis and I'm just going to pose
the question to you and get yourresponse.
Can 40-year-olds and you don'thave to be 40, let's say 30,
right?
Can married, happily marriedadults have platonic
(05:30):
relationships with the oppositesex or same sex?
If you're homosexual, I'm justlike it.
Can we have platonicrelationships?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I mean, I guess, to get in the full weeds of it.
To me, I think it depends onhow that's defined, Like, if you
have work friends and they havework friends, you guys probably
hang out, you probably see eachother as each other's friends
and spend time together.
But and maybe I'm going to takea very conservative stance on
(06:04):
this, and again I'm going totake a very conservative stance
on this and again I'm going tobe unapologetic about it I just
don't think that there will everbe a time in my life where it
is going to be okay for myhusband to be texting another
woman as they identify as awoman how?
(06:24):
If that is how you identify,then you are that woman.
It is not okay for you to betexting my husband, I don't know
, at night while I'm laying inhis bed.
That's not okay.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Or him texting her.
So let's not, we're not doingthat.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Right.
That to me is a bigger cross oflines and I'm just even though
we have a trusting, loving,great relationship, that kind of
thing happening does not workfor me and I don't think it
would really work for him either.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So that's my, that's my hot take on it, yeah it's a
it's a no-go in this house.
It's funny you said that likedefine platonic relationship,
because when I posed thisquestion to my husband on date
night, he said the same thing.
He said, well, define what youmean by that.
Is that like you know a workfriend, like you're saying, like
(07:15):
somebody you see every day,even if it's virtually?
You know, you might, you knowif you get on a call early you
might be sharing like personalinformation of like my kids are
dressed up as this.
You know those types of things.
Those are sort of like friendlyconversations, and so I was
like, okay, that's a good point.
Like, define what that is.
Is that like messaging somebody?
Is that spending time with themaway from your significant
other?
You know, like, I think you dohave to put some definition into
(07:39):
that.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
But ultimately, when I was thinking about this topic
and kind of like, hey, I just Ithink it's a good topic because
growing up I thought I wasalways really good at having
platonic relationships, likealmost prided myself on that.
You know, I've had supervisorsthat were men and as a woman,
like you know, we get hit on alot.
(08:02):
I'm just going it like thereare into window, in you, windows
I don't even know how to saythat word, but you know there
are things that are said likeyou are, you know, if somebody's
sort of like putting the feelerout there, for lack of a better
term.
But I always sort of pridedmyself on being able to be like
ain't got a chance, like, yeah,we can be friends, and it stops
(08:25):
here.
But when I posed this questionto my husband, he was like, no,
I don't think that you can havea platonic relationship.
Um, he was like.
You know, he was like becausehe was like, honestly, jenny, he
was like it was something yousaid to me, you know, almost 20
years ago, when you were in gradschool, I had this professor
that sort of talked aboutrelationships as a home right
(08:47):
and that if you start having youknow they could be very general
conversations, like it couldstart that way.
Or maybe one day you hop on andyou're on with somebody and you
start oh, my wife and I got in ahuge fight this morning and
blah, blah, blah.
He explained it as like you'reopening a window you're opening
an opportunity for something totranspire.
(09:09):
And it could be that you didn'teven mean to, but once you start
to share those types of deepconversations and things, that
you are opening the doors andwindows to your home, to your
relationship, for something tohappen.
And it's like that stuck withme and he was like that's why he
was on a work trip recently andhe got there and this woman I
(09:33):
think she's like in her 60s, butit was just the two of them
there and everybody else wascoming the next day and she was
like well, do you want to gograb dinner?
and he was like no, I'm gonnagrab dinner by myself, like
we'll do dinner as a grouptomorrow.
And he was like no, I'm goingto grab dinner by myself, Like
we'll do dinner as a grouptomorrow.
And he was like I do that outof respect for you.
Like I'm obviously notinterested in this woman.
She's 20 years older than me.
But he was like it's still megoing out to dinner with another
(09:55):
woman.
Talk about this kind of stuffLike I don't ask him who he goes
into.
I have 100% trust in my husband.
Almost probably like to a faultLike I would be so blindsided.
Um and I hope he feels the sameway.
I mean, I just you know like Iwould be so blindsided if
something ever happened, but Iwas like, huh, I had never
(10:17):
really thought about that.
Um, and I've got some otherexamples but, and we've had lots
of you know a lot of goodconversation, but it was
interesting when I went andposed this at girls night.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
It was almost like divided.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
It was like, yeah, and so I just that's why I think
this is such an interestingtopic, because even within my
girl group, um, one of mygirlfriends is really good
friends with one of the othergirlfriends husbands, like, they
have been really good friendsfor a long time and so she
looked at her and was like isthat weird, that so-and-so and I
went to a football gametogether and she's like no, no,
no, like because it's not arepeated thing you know, you all
(10:56):
did that one time two years ago, and so I think too, my, when
Jeff and I were talking aboutthis, he was like he he had said
something similar.
He was like is it repeatedinteraction or is it like you
talk once?
Hey, how you doing?
Haven't seen you in 10 years.
Hope you're doing well.
Have a nice day.
You know he was like or is thisyou're communicating with
(11:16):
regularly?
I was like okay, I think that'sfair right.
Yeah, like if it's regularcommunication, you know it might
be a platonic relationship, butit's not okay if you're in a
committed relationship, To mostpeople that's going to make them
feel uncomfortable, even if itis completely platonic.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, no, I agree, and I don't think that's about a
person's insecurity or, again,lack of trust within the other
partner.
I just think it comes down tohaving a healthy boundary and
definitions of what that lookslike and again, I'm not going to
(11:58):
sugarcoat that or be apologeticto it, because that would that
would take away my feelingsabout something that are very,
very important to me and I doappreciate, you know, what your
Jeff said in terms of you knowhow is that defined?
Is this repetitive?
You know, um, the fact that itdoes open a door.
You know I I just don't thinkthat in any of the work
(12:22):
relationships I've had withsomebody am I going in there and
bitching about my family life.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
You know, I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Right, you know, and even if it's with our work,
friends, we're talking aboutthings within a group of people,
not an isolated, you know, kindof one on one where I'm going
out and having coffee with thisone person.
Right, right or anything elselike that, and I just I don't.
I don't think that there'sanything wrong with saying no.
(12:52):
I'm not comfortable with thistype of relationship and I would
almost, I would almost beworried if there is argument on
the other side, you know,because that just doesn't, that
doesn't fit right either.
You know, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Like me.
You know like I was sayinginitially when Jeff and I were
having this conversation.
I'm like but I know me and likeyou know me, you know that like
I would never, like that's justnot.
That's not who I am.
You know I was a product ofdivorce.
I grew up because of an affairthat occurred and like, that's
not what I want for my kids,that's not what I want for
myself.
Like we're in a very you know,obviously loving, committed
relationship, so I'm like youwould never have anything to
(13:33):
worry about.
Like I said, I've always sortof prided myself on that.
I can engage in completelyplatonic relationships, but the
bottom line is, if it makes yoursignificant other feel
uncomfortable, then it's notokay, right?
I mean, like if you're, ifyou're truly committed and you
want to have a healthyrelationship, then you don't
(13:55):
want to do anything that makesthem feel to even like have
thoughts of comfort or wonderingor anything like that.
Yeah, um, you know, like I said, he kind of changed my mind
over the course of it.
Now, my one girlfriend that wassort of singing the same tune
that I was, because she isfriends with another friend's
husband and like was friendswith him before they got
(14:18):
together, right, and of coursenow like we're all really close
friends, but, um, you know, shewas like I feel like I can have
platonic relationships and Ithink, ultimately, whether you
think you can or you can't,that's not the that's not the
point.
The point is like, does it makeyour, your person, feel
uncomfortable, right, or is itsome sort of like disrespect
(14:40):
towards them?
And I had, honestly, I don'tknow if I'm the only person that
feels this way.
I had never thought of itbefore, like the disrespect to
the other person.
Yeah, and it's not like I'm outhere, like having you know, but
like you know it's it's um, it'sinteresting, cause I think back
, you know, when I was pregnantwith Jack and I worked with this
(15:04):
guy at the middle school and orright before before I got
pregnant with Jack, I had lostmy dad and he lost his dad in
the same way, and you know Iwould talk to him about it and
just you know, because I couldand he could really relate to
that and I'm like that to me wasa very platonic relationship.
But in hindsight, like you knowI mean again, this was like 10
(15:25):
years ago but in hindsight, likehaving this conversation now
like probably wasn't the bestidea, like you know, I don't
know, it's just hard, becausewhen you're grieving.
You're kind of looking forsomebody that can really relate
to you and understand whatyou're going through.
And you know he was kind ofthat person at that time.
(15:46):
You know his room, his, hisclassroom was right across from
my office.
I would see him early in themornings.
He'd be like how you doing, youknow it just.
But in hindsight, like if thatwere to happen today, in present
time, I don't know that I wouldengage in the same way.
Yeah, like just even likesharing like my grief with
somebody.
But I don't know, I'm like, youknow my friend Claire, who I,
(16:08):
you know I love Claire becauseshe just says it like it is.
Yeah, shout out to Clairebecause Claire will just tell
you like it is.
But you know, I said to thegroup, I said you know Jeff says
that like a man, you know, andI'm going to assume,
heterosexual man, if a man isengaging with a woman, he was
like there's some level ofinterest.
He was like we're typically notlooking for like girl friends,
(16:35):
and my friend Claire is likewell, that like why the fuck not
?
You know what is it you likecan't be friends with a woman
even if she's attractive, evenif she's.
You know what is it you likecan't be friends with a woman,
even if she's attractive, evenif she's, you know, like why
does it only have to be likesome sort of underlying, like
desire there for you to engagein any kind of friendship?
(16:56):
And I was like again, like goodpoint, claire.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Again like you're.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
You're telling me that men can't have just like a
girlfriend.
You know what I mean?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, and I think that the intimacy or the sharing
that takes place between bothparties is also, you know, a
component of is this okay or notOkay?
So, like I, that's just.
Maybe that's just my opinion.
Again, this is all just myopinion on it.
But no, I don't think that itwould be okay for me to go out
(17:34):
and have lunch with a guy friendand sit there and bitch about
jeff all the time you know, ortalk about how bad things are
cut out like the bitch about him.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
What if you were talking about?
What if it was somebody elsethat was a type 1 diabetic and
you all and is also a longdistance runner and you are
going out and like having coffee, to like talk about the big
race that's coming up andsharing like some tips on what
you're.
What am I doing?
What are you doing?
How are you keeping your bloodlike?
I'm just throwing out an example, like something completely
(18:04):
aside from your relationshipwith your husband, something
like very targeted, very likebecause I know you know men in
the running community like youknow, like that to me is a
platonic relationship, likeyou're my friend, you're helping
me plan for this, you'rehelping me with my training,
like almost in a coaching kindof like situation, I mean with
(18:31):
my training, like almost in acoaching kind of like situation,
I could see that, you know,being okay personally, yeah, I
mean I've never met that person.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I'd play the lottery in that same day.
You know, it would be reallycool to meet somebody else who
has that condition and does thisstuff.
I know a few, but they startedafter I did.
I coached them through it, soit's never been the other way
around Same thing.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Like you're, let's say you're coaching them.
Let's say, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I it was never done alone, though.
I would never meet with anybodyalone to do something like that
.
It'd be like well, I'm going toRoberts, are you going to go to
?
It's a running store around ourneighborhood, so you know I'm
going there, you go in there orbe on a group run with other
people.
I would not meet those peoplealone.
I just wouldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
What if they were messaging and saying, like
asking you questions via message, would you just like not
respond?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, I would probably do a post about it, or
I would tell Jeff that somebodyis messaging me about a run, and
I'd include him in theconversation of it, or to let
him know that it was happening.
And that's again what it wouldstick to, and so the content of
the conversation is very limitedto a very specific area, and so
, therefore, my interactionswith this person are not going
(19:43):
to be, you know, in thatrepetitive nature or in that in
those other kinds of qualifiersthat we're putting out there.
So it's not going to, theconversation is not going to go
past.
Carry some shit on you, youknow, test your sugar if you
feel bad and then have arecovery plan.
I mean, that's pretty much it,but it's just not going to go
(20:07):
outside the terms and conditionsof the relationship, and I'm
not also going to engage in itwithout talking to him first.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Okay, so you would just be extremely transparent
essentially is what you'resaying Like can read my messages
.
This is what we're talkingabout.
Yes, I'm going back and forthwith this person, but I'm just
trying to give them, you know,some tips and things that
they're asking specifically for.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, and even if I did that, it would be incredibly
limited, but that's just.
I don't think that again, wecould put out any situation
that's out there and I guaranteethere's going to be somebody
else better than me to answer it, and that you know you should.
Probably I'll lead you in thedirection of finding somebody
else that you can talk to aboutthis, but I'm not going to be
your person.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
So you know, I'll mention other people.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, I just am not going to do it because I have so
much I'm not going to.
I have so much respect for himand what I'm asking of him.
I'm not going to be the potcalling the kettle black within
this.
You know what I mean, kind of athing.
So if I'm not, if I don't thinkit's okay, then I'm not going
to engage in it myself, becausethen what am I telling him?
That's a big mismessage.
(21:15):
Well, I can do it because Itrust and I know myself, but you
know, it's just, and that'sfair.
Yeah, it's just not.
It's just not something thatI'm down with.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
So yeah, I mean, like I said when I, when I you and I
first, you know, we always kindof come up with some topic
ideas and when I posed thisquestion I felt very strongly
that we could have platonicrelationships.
But the more I listened topeople with a differing view
which hello we could all dobetter at that.
(21:45):
Differing a few, which hello wecould all do better at that.
Right, like, consider the otherside of things, the other side
of the coin.
You know it has changed my mindin that it really comes down to
like respect for your partnerand, you know, just wanting to
protect what you have because itis so sacred and you just don't
ever want to open the door foranything to happen.
(22:07):
Like, and I and you know I dolike part of me is sad about
that just because, not that Ihave like all these male friends
.
That's not what I'm saying, butyou know it's more of um, I
don't know it's like like wecan't be friends Like.
You know what I mean.
Like there is like it annoys methat everything has some sort
of underlying sexual tension andI'm like, why does it have to
(22:31):
be that way?
Like, why?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
That or intimacy and I.
It doesn't even have to be in asituation where there could be
a you know sexual attractivenessor anything else, so let's take
that out of it.
It's just the intimacy ofsharing deep and personal things
with someone else that is notsomeone of the same sex or
identity as your partner.
(22:54):
That's where the thing is withme.
Take sexual interest out.
Some situations that might noteven be the issue, but it's the
sharing of intimate personalrelationship or items with that
other person.
That just that's the icky forme.
Like that's where it's justlike you know you got these guys
(23:16):
.
Can you not just talk to themabout whatever's going on?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Or you have your girlfriend, but men don't talk
about stuff like that.
They don't Like.
I have men reach out to me thatI went to college with.
They listen to the podcast andyou know they're like I've been
struggling with my mental healthand you know they get kind of
specific on what they'restruggling with and I'm always,
like you know, gracious,obviously, and grateful that
they hey, that they support thispodcast and, you know, even
(23:43):
feel comfortable reaching outand telling me this.
I will say it usually stopsafter like one message, like
it's not a back and forth typeof thing, but you know, I mean,
I feel like men don't talk toeach other about stuff like that
.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
I don't know, I mean that's kind of on them if they
don't.
But doesn't mean it's okay foryou to go talk to.
You know, sally down the roadabout it.
You know, if you're and I'lleven go as far as this Okay, go
see a professional.
You know, I would say that mypatient population when I was
working was, most of the time Idon't know 53% guys and the
(24:24):
other 47 female.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I like how specific you got about that.
Like why not just say 50, 50?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Cause, it just wasn't .
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And it wasn't so much .
Yeah, it's just like 60, 40,something like that.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, it was again, it was a real teeter totter, but
it was always that there weremore of them.
But I think it also came downto the nature of what I was
working with you know, I mean.
I was doing a lot of work and soyou know there aren't tear a
huge amount of females in themilitary or that are first
responders or that are, you know, physicians and doing other
things, whatever, but yeah so,but even even in that point, go
(25:01):
talk to one of them.
Things are that bad or you'reon the struggle bus.
I'm happy to point you in adirection of somebody you can
talk to about it, but again,that person is not going to be
me, Because that also, just itjust blurs way too many lines
and I'm just especially, I guess, whenever it comes to that area
, it is not appropriate for meto be your shoulder to talk to,
(25:25):
because you're pulling too muchout of me and out of a reservoir
that's saved for, honestly, aprofessional realm that I should
not be talking about this withyou.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So what about your husband's friends?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I mean, I think that that's the point.
They're his friends.
You know, am I friends withthem?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I was gonna say do you consider them your friends?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, I consider them our friends.
But if you were to kind ofsketch it back, the origin of
the relationship did not involveme.
The origin of the relationshipinvolved him being friends with
other people, and so at thatpoint too, it's not like I'm
going out and hanging out withhis friends or sitting there and
texting and kind of get a holdof you know, or chit chatting or
(26:11):
anything else.
Whenever we see our friends,it's our friends together.
You know, it's never any othertype of dynamic.
If I'm trying to plan asurprise party at the office,
I'm texting all 10 of them,right, we're having a surprise
party.
I need you to help to geteverybody there, keep him out of
the office, do whatever youknow.
(26:31):
But again, I think that that'sa different thing and I don't
think that he would becomfortable with me
communicating with any of hisfriends through text and having
my own individual relationshipwith them.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So I could be wrong, but I don't think, so I'm going
to have to ask my husbandbecause I will say my husband's
very best friend.
I definitely have like afriendship, you know, like we
are friends.
We're definitely, like you know,same thing, like anytime I see
him, we're all together, like Iwould.
You know, I'm not going to gosee him.
No, if I was, like in the city,yeah, I would go see him, for
sure, I'd go have a cup ofcoffee because I do believe my
(27:09):
husband would be okay with that.
But I'm going to have to askhim because, like, we text each
other like you know stupid stuff, like we have ongoing jokes and
sometimes it's like me andanother wife of the group and
this friend I mean it's justlike very best friend of the
group and this friend I meanit's Jeff's like very best
(27:29):
friend, um, and so you know, hehas never said anything like and
I always say, like I wastexting with so-and-so today and
he generally laughs or sayswhat do you say?
You know, whatever, like wehave conversations about it, but
that's a great point.
Like I didn't bring that one upwhen we were talking about this,
like, was that ever botheredyou, that so-and-so and I text
back and forth, or that we havea group chat with out you in it,
you know, with some of theother like wives of the friend
(27:51):
group?
Um, he probably wouldn't have,you know, I'm thinking he's
gonna say that doesn't botherhim, but I can't wait to find
out his answer.
Right, we did not talk aboutthat.
And that's such a great examplelike that's another great
example like he knows thisperson very well, trust this
person with his whole heart Imean he, you know and so I am
(28:16):
very intrigued to hear hisanswer to this yeah, I know that
it would not fly in thatscenario.
It's so interesting because I'mlike it is like just what we
talked about, like it is, Iwould say, semi-regular
communication.
I you know, maybe like once amonth or it depends, like if
we've just seen them, I get moretext messages, whatever, um,
(28:37):
those types of things.
But you know, usually it'sstuff like about my husband.
Like you know how excited isjeff to see me this week.
You know it's like silly, fun,funny stuff.
Like that you know I'll be like, oh, he hasn't slept in days.
Like you know how excited isJeff to see me this week.
You know it's like silly, fun,funny stuff.
Like that you know I'll be like, oh, he hasn't slept in days.
Like you know he's beencounting down on his calendar.
Like you know, like we kind oflike go back and forth but I
guess that's what I mean andthat like I feel like you can
(29:00):
have a platonic relationshipLike I.
I go back and forth, Icompletely see the other side
and I think there you got to putcontext in it Like does your
person know the other person?
And I'm not saying that'salways right, right, because we
know that.
Like you know that that's howI've known of other affairs,
like in neighborhoods where youknow they were couples who were
(29:22):
best friends and then all of asudden, like two people were
peeling off and hanging outtogether and it evolved into
something else.
I think certainly, if you arehanging out with someone else on
a regular basis, out yoursignificant other like that is
definitely a hard no, yeah, butI will say like I do feel like I
have a very good platonicrelationship with my husband's
(29:44):
best friend Almost, like I feellike he would be sad if we
didn't have a good friendshipbecause they're so close and
like that's his other than me.
That's his person.
You know yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I hear you, I know, but I just, I don't, I just
can't think of a situation inwhich that would be okay or it
would be okay.
I don't think that he thinksthat it would be okay for me to
sit there and text his very bestfriends, which, either way, all
work for him.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
What if Jeff texted me?
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I think, again, it comes down to the context and
everything else that was goingon, because, as you all listened
to the race recap, you guyswere texting for like six months
and I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
That was the next thing I was going to say.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
But I think that what you were talking about was not
of any intimacy, and I thinkthat that comes down to as a
qualifier for me.
Yeah, I don't think that youshould be having intimate
conversations about yourpersonal life with someone that
identifies as, or is, theopposite sex, and that is just
(30:57):
how I feel about it.
And so, again, the intimacy ofthe conversation is the
qualifier for me, and that doesinclude how often, what type?
Do I know this person on my own?
Is this person someone I'veever met before?
You know, I'm just not.
It's just not a realm that I'mokay with.
(31:18):
So, and I'm pretty sure youguys aren't still texting now.
You know the race has been overRight.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
So again there's the point.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You know the race has been over.
Yeah, I mean right, right.
So again, there's the point.
It was for a very sweet andsurprise-based thing, um the.
There was not a whole lot ofintimacy that is being shared or
talked about or discussed, orthis, that and the other
logistics, yeah and so again,okay, but it's.
I think where it crosses theline is intimacy being the
qualifier.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I think that's fair, like putting some parameters on,
like exactly how you'reengaging in conversation with
with that other person.
Yeah, like every now and thenyour Jeff will text me, like
when you lose your phone orhe'll be like sending me
pictures of you, of you know,know, like, if you're right,
like that, like that kind ofstuff, but I always feel like
(32:08):
it's you telling him to text me,like those kinds of situations
where it's like hey, sarah losther phone, or sarah's phone's
dead or right working, you knowsomething to that degree she
finished, or here's a picture,right, right.
Those types of conversationsit's never like well, how you
doing, jenny, like those typesof things we're not having, you
(32:29):
know right, and that's the,that's the boundary, that's the
parameter you know what I meanand that's fine, and there's
nothing again wrong with thatkind of a thing.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
But if it extends beyond that point, then that's
where it starts to become verymurky.
It's like being out at sea atthat point.
You're just, you're out in thedeep now.
So, and I just what?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
do you do, like let's say, you engage in that, and
then like I mean, like what ifsomebody is listening to this
and they're like shit, like I Idefinitely have had like a
conversation with somebody atwork, or like we go on work
trips and yeah, we go for coffee, or like you know, I was being
there for somebody when theywere going through a hard time
(33:10):
Like do you feel it's necessaryto then like go back and and
then like explain that to yoursignificant other and like you
know what I mean, likeretroactively, just be like hey,
I just need you to know.
Is it worth it to like even putthose thoughts in their head?
Or is it like I've changed myview on things and, just moving
(33:34):
forward, I'm going to operate ina different manner?
Like what are your thoughts onthat?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I like the latter part better, but again, I think
that if you're having thosethoughts about but again, I
think that if you're havingthose thoughts about could this
be, could my partner get upsetthat I've been doing this, then
you probably know you shouldn'thave been doing it.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
No, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Throw that out there first, if you're thinking that
your partner is going to beupset about the conversations
you're having with somebody,then you should feel the need to
hide it.
Right, you should be doing itthat should be a red flag to you
.
Right, and whether that's a redflag on your bad or on their bad
or whatever else, it doesn'tmatter.
You shouldn't be doing it Right.
So I guess that is my answer,and then if you do find yourself
(34:17):
in that situation, then I meanI'm a person of full
transparency.
I would just be like, look, Iheard this podcast.
I don't.
I realize now that this isprobably not okay.
Because of me listening to this,I'm feeling like kind of yucky
and squeamish because, I may notbe honoring you in the way that
I should, and I just want youto know that I, even if you're
(34:40):
okay with this, I'm sorry andI'm not going to continue to do
it because it doesn't feel rightto me.
I think that that's fine, youknow, um, but if you're feeling
icky about it, you shouldn't bedoing it.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment.
Um, yeah, and I think too, justlike having the conversation,
like if you're on a date night,like having this, just to see
where your significantunderstands on this, I think, is
interesting, because it did.
We had some pretty deepconversations and it never got
like you know, heated oranything.
(35:12):
I mean we're sitting at the barhaving dinner and you know we
talked about another scenario,one that you know I'm not going
to go into too much detailbecause I do want to protect my
friends and you know, like Idon't want to like share
anything that would ever makeanyone that I love feel
uncomfortable.
Um, but you know, I I posed aspecific example to him and he
(35:38):
was like, actually that didn'tmake me feel uncomfortable and I
was like what I mean?
I was floored, honestly floored, and if I gave you the context
of this, I think some otherpeople might be floored.
That that, you know, botheredhim, but, honestly, I would have
never in a million yearsthought that that would, because
, again, like our relationshipis so strong and this was really
(36:00):
coming from a very genuinehelper, like trying to be
helpful in the situation, trulyjust trying to like be there for
somebody that was going throughit.
Yeah, um, and you know, when hewas like actually that did make
me feel uncomfortable, I waslike, oh damn, you know, like I
(36:20):
I didn't even know and I waslike I'm so sorry, like I would
have never, ever done anythingto make you feel uncomfortable.
So it did help us to at leastlike acknowledge that I would
have never, ever, done anythingto make you feel uncomfortable.
So it did help us to at leastlike acknowledge that he would
have never told me that on hisown had I not posed this
question to him or like broughtthis up, um, and so I think just
having this conversation canreally, you know whether you
(36:42):
feel one way or the other, kindof enlighten you to how your
partner feels about platonicrelationships.
And I think you do have todefine them, as we've said a
couple of times, like you dohave to define what you mean by
that.
You know, like hanging outwithout your significant other
having regular communication,having intimate communication,
(37:03):
and that doesn't mean likesexual, just like, you know,
like deep thoughts, deepthoughts by Jenny, or detail, as
we all think in this house,like just sharing those sort of
like intimate feelings that noone else knows, right?
Intimate I don't know thedefinition of it, but I'm pretty
sure it's like not notwell-known, right?
(37:25):
Maybe like only a few peopleknow or only you know, like
those types of things.
We don't mean intimate and likegetting hot and heavy.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
No, no, I mean, that's definitely off the table.
You know what I mean, but Ijust think that there's a
there's a different level of umcrossing a line that you just I
don't know you need to be awareof and you shouldn't do, and I
don't think that that's metrying to control a person's
relationship or say that youcan't be friends with somebody.
(37:56):
This is about me and myrelationship with you and what
I'm okay with happening or not.
If you want to twist this aroundand make it about you, then
there's a bigger problem hereyou know.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
so boundaries and stick into it, Right.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Right, right.
And again, if you're, let's go.
I mean, if I want to train forsomething, if I want to do
something I know somebody elseis doing it I'm going to talk to
my husband first before I goand talk to that other person
and be like hey, I found out,there's somebody else that knows
X, y and Z about this.
Is it okay with you if I reachout and send them a message and
talk to them about it and justsee what their feedback is?
(38:30):
And if he says yes, then okay.
But then that's where it ends.
You know, it's not like we'regoing to go out and then meet up
on a trail and I'm going to goon a run with them.
I'm just going to be like, okay.
I said to Jeff I'm like you,work out at a gym with really
hot women.
They're hot, they're all.
Hot they are.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
And the trainers are hot and you know, and I was like
I'm certain that you don't sitthere quietly in class.
I'm certain that you haveconversations with these women,
you know, but like that doesn'tbother me because I don't know,
it just has never bothered me.
(39:12):
I'm like I could go to that gymtoo.
I used to go, I just don't goanymore.
I'm like, but I'm like you know, what point does that also like
cross that boundary?
Like I see this person everymorning, I have a conversation
with them every morning.
You know, I said I think for meit would be like if, like you
(39:33):
were, they do a lot of likegroup activities outside of the
gym, like run club, they have asocial and stuff.
Like I was like if you weretrying to go to those things
without me, but like my spideysense up, yeah well, why can't I
go too?
Or why am I not invite you know?
right and so I guess for methat's where that like boundary
(39:54):
is.
It's like I'm not saying youcan't like have womenit chats,
chit chat, but you're not liketelling them you know, well, my
(40:20):
wife is, you know, my wife'sreally put on some weight here
lately.
Sure wish she'd come back tothe gym, you know you're not
having those types ofconversations.
Yeah, or you're not textingthat person outside of the gym,
like even for me, like if, oreven getting their number for
that matter right, why are wedoing this?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
You know, then, that's it's.
I totally see that happening.
I mean, we're friendly people,Our husbands are friendly people
, very social creatures, butagain, I'm not going to text
somebody that I just saw at thegym and I don't think that he's
going to either, you know,because again, that's a reach
outside of that.
You know, going into a workoutplace and seeing the same people
(41:01):
every day, you know, it'swhenever that, then that's fine.
Nice little chit chats,encouragement, whatever else.
But then how did you get thenumber?
You know?
How'd you get my number?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
And why Right?
How'd you get my number?
And why yeah?
What was the context of thenumber Mm-hmm Right.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, I saw this person, you know message me on
Facebook.
You know that's a look Like youhave to find people and that
takes intention in order to doit Like that's a premeditated
act.
So let's just go ahead andthrow that out there For
whatever purpose it still is,and so that feels pretty yuck
too.
(41:36):
I just call me old school.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I'll be, I'll wear that crown all day long on this
topic, but I'm just yeah, like Isaid, it definitely has changed
my perception of things to someextent.
You know, not not saying one isright or wrong.
Wrong, I think it's whatever isright for your relationship,
but I definitely see the otherside of the coin much clearer
now, you know, and I think I'llbe a little bit more moving,
(42:12):
like with intention, withconversations that I have.
You know, even if somebodyreaches out about the podcast or
um, you know, hey, haven't seenyou, your kids are cute, like I
think, just being intentionalin your responses, intentional
in boundary setting, intentionalin and in protecting your, your
(42:35):
significant other and theirfeelings, I think, yeah, that's
how I'll move forward withthings.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, that's fair, and I mean I just I, I hear you,
I mean, and I know that there'ssome people will die on
whatever hill that they stand onon these types of topics, and I
get it.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
But it's just Listen.
I would have two weeks ago, Iwould have died on that hill
saying you absolutely can haveplatonic relationships.
But I think that's why you havehard conversations like this.
Yeah, I do, because, eventhough I can say wholeheartedly,
I have never, not one time,thought about cheating on my
husband or done anything thatwould be considered cheating on
my husband, I will say I wouldhave.
(43:17):
I would have argued forever thatyou can have a platonic
relationship now, the minutethat he started.
You know, should that have everpresented itself as like him
having a platonic relationship?
I don't know that I would havehad the same feelings about it,
but to that point he has.
There's a woman that he used towork with that I know that like
(43:39):
they text sometimes about workand stuff like that and again
like that bothered me, because Iknow her, I know what they're
talking about Whenever he seesher.
We're all together.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Like those types of things.
But yeah, I think just it sortof makes you kind of take a step
back and really think about youknow, really protecting your,
your relationship.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, and I think that's just kind of what it
comes down to.
So and and just like again, Ithink if you're in that kind of
loving relationship, then youhave to take you out of it and
just you know, respect the factthat your partner is not okay
with this.
Yeah, I mean again.
I don't think that it's well.
(44:25):
You just don't trust me, youjust aren't.
You're trying to control me.
You're trying to say who I canand cannot be friends with.
I don't think that that's whatthis is about.
This is about again protectingintimacy between a couple and
honoring that, and steppingoutside of that boundary just
(44:46):
isn't okay.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I mean, that's just it Fair.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
That's how I'm going to die on the hill yeah, I was
very excited to talk about thisbecause I just the level of uh,
I don't know like passion fromthe conversations that I've had
with other people when we talkabout this I thought, oh, like,
hey, this is something we'venever talked about.
We'll have very differingopinions on this yeah, I'm so
(45:22):
glad you talked to it too withyour girl group to kind
of get that feedback too, sothat was good yeah, I thought it
was interesting how divided itwas um and how, like we can, we
were like having theconversation and then it
continued like an hour laterlike we brought it back up again
because it was like well, howdid you feel about this?
Or what about this?
Or like I, sometimes I textyour husband, like you know,
(45:44):
because we do.
I think that's all when you'rein like kind of bigger friend
groups and everybody gets alongreally well and we're all like
really close you know what Imean.
Like go on vacations together,like those types of like
closeness, sure you know you dostart to be like well, does that
apply to this relation?
Does that apply to like?
Me texting your husband aboutlike his team one and you know
(46:07):
like is that inappropriate.
Like it led to a much biggerconversation amongst this group
of girlfriends because, like theRedskins won last Sunday, they
had a huge win, like at the lastsecond the ball got tipped
right into the receiver's hands.
I mean, it was huge, and we havea couple buddies who are huge
Redskins fans, so of course Itext them.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Holy shit, what an ending like great you know,
congrats, yeah, great winsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
But I'm like it does make you think like, is that
inappropriate?
Should I have not done thatShould I have included my
husband on that text messageMaybe so.
You know, it's just it, Ifnothing else.
It has got me thinking abouthow I communicate with other men
.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And so, if nothing else like yeah, it definitely
has me thinking about justrespecting him and his feelings.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Sure sure, no, I get it, I get it and it is.
I mean, this conversationitself is an intimate
conversation, you know in someways, but it's just yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Oh, like the conversation we're having, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Because it does.
It involves so much passion andvariables and insight to your
own self and to your partner andto your relationship and
towards other people and I don'tknow, I'm also.
Maybe this is a topic for adifferent day, but you know, I
think that we get caught up inthis idea, especially because
(47:34):
it's posted so much on, likesocial media.
It's in all these mainstreambooks that you're reading that
if you're not continuallyworking on aspects of yourself,
then you're just stayingstagnant and not willing to grow
.
But I think sometimes thatthat's not the appropriate
response.
I think that sometimes, throughour openness, our insights, our
(47:57):
self reflection, that what we'vereally done is come to this
kind of point within ourselfthat we're not willing to
concede this area of my life,and I feel strong enough right
now to say that.
And so that's not a sign ofweakness and me not being
willing to reach further or tochange my mind further.
This is actually me, respectingme and who I am, by also
(48:21):
setting this boundary, like no,you know what I've done a lot of
self-reflection about this, alot of thought, I've talked to
other people about it and justkind of deep down in my heart,
this is just who I am, this iswhat I believe, this is kind of
this is it, and I'm not.
That's where I'm done at.
Okay, I'll work on theself-development in this area,
this area, in this area, but onthis one I'm checking my own box
(48:43):
because I feel at this point,finally, at 42 or whatever,
confident enough to sit here andsay that and not to feel
ashamed for having my opinionabout it.
So again maybe a topic for adifferent day, because I just
feel like we get caught up inthat Like well, you need to just
continue to work onself-development and be open,
(49:05):
and I mean you hear it all thetime.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Your responsibility, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yeah, I mean, you see it all the time on like again,
like on social media.
You hear other people talkingabout it and this is a whole
industry of books right now.
But on the other side of that,sometimes people are just have
gotten the strength that theysay that it's not okay.
Then that's actually great.
That's actually the growth thatthey've come to in that point in
their life to say, no, why arewe shutting that down?
(49:31):
That's not okay either.
So, yeah, it just blows up somuch and then you just you get
hit with something whenever youwant to stand firm on it and I
just think sometimes it's justour job to be a tree yeah, if
it's something you know that youfeel so strongly about, for
sure.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
So well, I want to end on that, because I think
that I love how you just putthat and I think that that's a
great way to to end this, so um,might be your topic for the
next show yeah, it could betopic uh, number 70 coming in
hot uh so that also means thatwe are in the top one percent of
(50:12):
podcasts.
Did you know that just becausewe have so many episodes out?
I think I read somewhere, likemost shows don't make it past
seven episodes, or maybe it wasslightly more than that, but
we're rolling up on number 70.
So if you would like tocontinue to hear from us and
support the libelous podcast, wewould be so grateful for you to
(50:33):
leave a review.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, whether that be spotify or
apple, please leave us a review.
Let us know how we're doing.
Check us out on our website.
You can always find us at thelieless podcastcom, and then
also on instagram and facebook,even though sarah can't get into
our facebook anymore, um, we, Ithink we're going to try to
(50:54):
start a new one, if we canfigure that out.
Definitely our Instagram.
I am going to get better atposting.
That is definitely.
One of my main goals is to getout and really start to promote
this podcast, because it doesmean so much to us and we hope
that that it does to you as well.
So happy Friday, happy November1st.
Go take your Halloween shitdown, if you haven't already,
(51:19):
and see you next week, or chatnext week.
Until then, lila.
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