December 27, 2023 • 24 mins
In this episode, we talk about the transformative power of 'death' within the realm of creativity. Join Mama Judy and I as we explore the concept of 'death' not as a literal end but as a metaphorical passage - the conclusion of one artistic endeavor and the beginning (or birth) of another.
Throughout an artists journey, there will be small deaths that present themselves in the creative process. The death of an idea or a vision... the death or ending of a project...
Instead of thinking of this in a depressing way, we encourage you to see death as a transformation in creativity.
Join us!
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Sewing Peace Project
Book: Wild Ideas: Creativity From the Inside Out by Cathy Wild
If you'd prefer to watch this podcast, you can find us over on our YouTube page (The Mama Judy & Jill Podcast).
We'd LOVE to hear from you! Click here to send us your thoughts and ideas for a future episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh good, you made it.
We are so glad you're here.
Welcome to the Mama Judy andJill podcast, an
intergenerational chat aboutlife, art and the creative
process.
I'm your host, jill, andjoining me is my wonderful
co-host and bonus mom, mama Judy.
Let's get started.
Hi everyone, we are so glad tohave you back.
(00:22):
We're here with us today.
Hello, mama Judy.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hi Jill, hi everyone.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It is great to be back here today I wanted to ask
you something, mama Judy.
I know in several of ourpodcasts in the beginning, when
we first started, we wouldalways check in with each other
and say what have you beenworking on lately?
That's been fun, so what haveyou been working on?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Oh, gosh, you know, keeping with that, I got to have
a thousand things going at thesame time.
I've got two journals going on,I've got some experimentation
with acrylics and I have anotherproject that involves stitching
that I found on Facebook, thatI'm going to do for next year.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Oh, I love the idea of what you're going to be
stitching.
Would you care to share that,because I just think that's such
a beautiful thing for anyone toconsider doing it.
I'm actually going to do itmyself after you told me about
it, so can you just tell peoplebriefly what it is?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, I'd be happy to .
And what we can do, jill is, wecan also include in your
written notes where they can seewhere it started.
And I found it on Facebook andit is a woman that does
stitching and we all sometimesget to feeling that the world is
out of control and there'snothing we can do about it, and
(01:41):
so I think what she decided isto do her love of stitching with
random acts of kindness, andshe makes a heart hand stitches
up, she calls it a patch andit's got one or two hearts on it
and it's got this beautiful.
Saying something to the effectof this is for you, and I've
(02:04):
made this.
You can either keep it or passit on, and in a world where you
know, let's sew peace I thinkthat's the name of the project.
So S-O-W-S-E-W-P-E-S.
Yes, and they can then keepthat or pass it on, and it's
(02:25):
just a beautiful sentiment.
And I thought about years ago weused to buy stickers that you
could put anywhere and it was,and it basically said you are
beautiful.
And we would stick them ontrash cans, we would stick them
on benches, wherever.
It's just the idea that maybewhat you put out there will
(02:48):
brighten somebody's day, and younever know when someone gets
something they need to hear atthe right time in their life,
and these patches were kind ofthe same thing.
You leave them in random places, right, and I also love.
I follow an artist that I'vebought some of his paintings in
(03:11):
Utah and what he does is hemakes a small painting and he'll
put it out there with a similarkind of thing.
You have now found an originalpiece of art.
Take it home and enjoy it orpass it on.
I just love creativity and goodintentions behind all these
being shared with the world, soI'm going to do it next year.
(03:34):
I am going to put at some pointit out on my Instagram page,
but I would love it if we couldput it in the notes for the
podcast.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I will link it up for sure.
And I've also seen anotherthing.
Similar is where people dopainted rocks and sometimes if
you flip it over it'll have anice word or a little phrase on
the back.
I saw one the other day thatsaid it was called a rock garden
.
It said take one, leave one,enjoy, or something like that.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, I love that.
We all need those kinds ofthings.
So, anyway, that's what I'mgoing to be doing.
That's my new project.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Good Well, and I was just showing Mama Judy, before
we started the podcast, that Ijust treated myself to some.
If you're watching on YouTube,I'm showing you these paint
brushes I got for watercoloring,so I'm going to be doing some
watercoloring for fun and toincorporate into journals, as
well as some of my stitchingprojects.
I like stitching paper ontofabric sometimes.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I have to interrupt us for a minute.
If you can hear some rumblingin the background of our podcast
, that is thunder rolling acrossthe desert.
We got a great rainstorm.
It's not rainy now.
I am outside, but I can hearthe thunder coming, which I'm
not moving inside.
But if I get struck bylightning.
(04:54):
You will know it.
You guys will be the first toknow.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well, speaking of being struck by lightning, let's
talk about the topic for today.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay, before we go down that rabbit hole too far,
okay, all right.
Now this is going to seemstrange to some people, but not
really.
We are at the end of one yearand a new year, calendar year
will begin, and that thoughtthat one year is dying and a new
(05:25):
year will be born along with aphrase that I read in one of the
books that I periodically pickup got me to thinking about
death in the creative process.
Now, death is usually notsomething that people think
about, especially inrelationship to creativity, but
(05:51):
every time that we go about ourcreative endeavors, there are
small deaths in it.
It could be, for example, thedeath of an idea, it could be
the death of a project.
Now, death the way that I'mpresenting that just to me,
(06:14):
means the end of something.
It doesn't physically mean thatyou're going to die or that
your project is suddenly goingto burst into splings, but that
the idea.
All along in the creativeprocess, we have all kinds of
small, little deaths of things.
(06:35):
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Well, you're right, the way that it sounds the death
it seems like it's got to bedone and gone.
But I like that you're using itin the way of it's an ending in
something, just like you weresaying the calendar year and
ending a death of something.
But tell me more about the ideaof how this for artists, how
can they use this in our livesor in your creative practice for
(07:00):
good?
Because it sounds depressing ina way if you think about it
that way.
But let's talk about how it's agood thing.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Okay, this is a perfect time.
If you guys don't mind melooking down, I'm going to read
the quote that caught my eye,and this is by Kathy Wilde, who
has a book called Wild IdeasCreativity from the Inside Out,
and I think we've referenced herbefore.
(07:29):
Yes, I'll link up that one,because she is one of the books
that I seem to continually pickup.
In every act of creation,something dies so that something
new can be born.
So it's really that idea thatI'm talking about death and
(07:50):
creativity.
If I sit down to do a painting,let's say, and I have an idea
of what I want it to be like,but for some reason that does
not come about, it dies.
In that process of dying I mayfind some new idea that
(08:13):
automatically comes forward andis the rebirth.
It's almost like death can be atransformation in creativity.
One idea can transform intoanother idea, one technique can
transform into a differenttechnique.
(08:34):
So it isn't death and they'redepressing.
Oh my gosh, I'm going to diesomeday, but it is an ending of
something.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yes, and I like that what you said.
It opens up space for newthings to happen, Because if
we're just going to stay with,stay with the whole time, if you
would never move on, really.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
That's right.
And think about it, and I thinksometimes we've all done this.
We get so attached to something, we become in love with an idea
or the vision that we have whatthis painting or this collage
will look like and we hang on toit, and hang on to it even when
it is not working.
(09:18):
To me, part of that is we needto let go, we need to let it die
, let go of it and then see whatcomes out of it.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And it made me think, and I actually, since we're on
a computer, I just looked thisup quickly.
But have you heard the phrasekill your darlings?
No, okay.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I felt that way at times.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I thought it was from Stephen King, but we'll find
out.
It says the phrase kill yourdarlings means eliminating any
part of your writing characters,scenes, sentences, side plots
that, while you might love them,don't serve your story.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Ah well, basically we're talking death is killing
your darlings, that idea thatyou thought would be so great
when you try to execute it, notso good kill it off.
Let it die.
Let it die so that the new cancome forth.
We're letting every year,throughout the world, we let one
(10:21):
calendar year die On December31st at midnight.
2023 is dead, 12.01,.
2024 begins.
We haven't really lost anything, we're just keeping track on
this calendar, but we let onedie so that one can come on.
(10:43):
I think we need to do that andrecognize that in our creative
process and understand it ispart of the process.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Another way to think about it when you were saying
that is that you know, when youdo some this is probably more
with writing and journaling, butand I think this is taking it
more literal, but I just wantyou to hear this one You're
journaling something, you'reespecially pouring your heart
out, your emotions, you know,whatever.
(11:14):
So it's a kind of a therapeutictype thing.
And then, if you ever seenwhere people go and put it into
a fire and let it burn up Beenthere, done that, yeah, and so
that's the same thing too.
It's like a release, becausethe other thing about with death
is if at some point you have tolet go and release things,
whether it's just into the worldor to have open hands for new
(11:35):
things to come.
But the burning of that made methink of a death, of that, but
you still did something goodwith it.
And then it goes up in the airand she's part of the process.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It is, and as you were talking, I was also
envisioning these journals thatI've just completed.
That project is dead as far asthe process of creating them.
So there are these littledeaths throughout the creative
process that we probably don'teven think about, but I thought
(12:07):
it was really interesting thatKathy Weill brought it forward
to remind us that something diesin the creative process so that
something new can be reborn.
And that's also in the naturalworld how things grow, even the
plant that never truly dies off,let's say, a morning glory.
(12:31):
So every year my morning glorydies off to the ground, but then
from the roots below the groundit comes back up the next
spring and maybe that's a goodway to look at our creativity.
Our creativity has roots way,way down into us and some
(12:51):
creative idea will come forwardand then, for whatever the
reason, it will complete itselfone way or another and die off
and a new one will come forth.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, I like that visual that feels good, see
where you have the roots downthere, and it's just a natural
part of being alive in thisworld is death is such a big
part of it.
And the first thing is with artis artists, though, we get to
continually create.
It's not like, oh gosh, thatproject's done, dead, I'm done,
(13:25):
I'm done, I'm out of here.
There's no more art to becreated.
There's nothing more creativefor me to do.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
That's right.
We get to just keep dying andgetting reborn, dying and
getting reborn Along with that.
Another word that maybe peoplehaven't thought about with the
creative process is grief, andwe can get attached again, like
Stephen King or whoever it wasthat you quoted talked about.
(13:51):
We can get attached tosomething that we just can't let
go of, but when we finally letgo of it, we feel horrible or
we're depressed or whatever.
That's part of the grief thatcomes when something dies off.
It's okay to grieve becausethat idea that you were so sure
(14:14):
was going to be great, it wasgoing to be a wonderful painting
, it didn't happen.
It's okay to grieve it To thenatural process of death, and
grieving is part of the rhythmof creativity, if you want to
look at it that way, and I thinkthat's kind of where we need to
(14:35):
look at it and to understandit's all part of the process.
Creativity seems to me to belike the natural world.
Everything that we experiencein the creative process and
being a creative is we'rerepeating what the natural world
does.
The natural world kills thingsoff.
(14:57):
Here goes the helicopter.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You got all kinds of things.
I heard some birds in thebackground earlier.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I am not out on the patio by myself.
The thunder is gone, but thehelicopters are coming by
Hopefully no more.
Anyway, it is.
It's all part of that naturalrhythm.
We're involved in the rhythm oflife and this is, in our
creativity, just part of therhythm of life, death and grief
(15:30):
and being reborn, and we haveall of this, I believe, has very
deep roots that allows ourcreativity to continue when one
dies and another is reborn.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I love that.
It feels like just a goodnatural process to be part of.
It is.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Sometimes we don't think about it or sometimes we
shy away from it because thosethings the letting go of an idea
or a project, or thedisappointment, those are ugly
and messy and they don't feelgood, but they're fleeting.
They should be fleeting as faras the creative process.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Right.
One thing I knew we were goingto talk about this is I looked
up something because I wasthinking about the ego and
there's an actual term calledego death and I thought about
the role of death in thisprocess is of an ego death where
, when we become tooperfectionistic, we're being too
(16:34):
prideful, whatever it is aroundour art to quiet that or
silence that ego part of us andlet that have a death to that
part, so that we can go on andbe creative and be free and not
have that ego hanging over us.
And so, like the ego death.
I just thought that was aninteresting term and it's not
gone forever, obviously, butit'll be waiting for you right
(16:57):
around the corner, but I thinkit's a neat thing to think about
also.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yes, it will be knocking at the door trying to
get back out.
Yes, no, that is.
That's a great thing.
That just again exemplifies thefact that the idea of death is
out there in everything and thatsome death is needed to grow,
to change, to evolve, and Ithink the reason, one of the
(17:26):
reasons, like I said, we wereending one year and beginning a
new one, but I also wanted touse these words like death and
grief because normally they'renot considered things you
normally would talk about andthey're just there, they're part
of it.
They're not necessarily bad inthe way that we're talking about
(17:52):
them.
We're something dies in orderto be reborn and we have to let
it die.
We have to grieve it if we needto, and then move on to what's
coming forth.
It's again, as you pointed out,jill, it's just part of the
natural process.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And another thing I just thought I was used to do a
lot of jewelry with beading andyou've gone away from that a
little bit.
So I'm wondering you've goneaway from that some because was
it part of it?
Because it's so small in yourhands and stuff it wasn't
comfortable.
Is that why you kind of quitdoing that so much?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
You know that's perfect, because I was going to
bring that up, so thank you.
Oh no, it died a natural death.
I did it for probably close to15 years in some form and then,
all of a sudden, without evenknowing it, I just did not want
(18:52):
to do it anymore.
I just I couldn't even.
I just didn't want to do it.
Period.
That's a natural death.
Yes, what that did.
After a period and I'm lookingback now I didn't realize it was
a natural death I couldn'tfigure out for a while.
(19:14):
I couldn't figure out, well,why don't I want to do this?
I love doing this and it justwasn't there.
After a period of almost likean incubation period, the
journals showed up.
So if I look at that process,if we look at my process, that's
exactly what happened.
(19:34):
One form of creativity died offnaturally and another form
eventually took root, evenwithin my journals, where I
started several years ago.
I've noticed on Instagram theydon't look like what they look
(19:54):
like today, right.
So again, death and evolutionand growth.
Yeah, and thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, and it also doesn't mean that this might not
be the case for you, but youcould go back to doing beating
and jewelry and then there'sjust a new version of that.
That's reborn.
Doubt that you will, but whoknows?
I mean, I'm just saying, ifsomeone's listening, there could
be something that you do for along time and really enjoy, and
it has its natural death, andthen it may come back around and
have a rebirth.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And it's funny that you should mention that.
You must be sitting inside myhead listening to what I'm going
to talk about.
But it has been shooting itslittle tendrils back up here in
the last 10, 12 months and Ihave a lot of supplies and it
will come again.
(20:44):
But it is not going to be thebeaded embroidery work that I
used to do.
It will be in a different form.
It will be in the form that itneeds to be where my creativity
is.
Now.
I don't know what that lookslike, but it's just waiting for
me to.
It's just in the death andrebirth process.
(21:08):
It's just getting strong enoughfor me to take it up again.
So it is, it's going to comeback.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, that's a beautiful thing.
I can't wait to see what you dowith your beads Me either just
a surprise.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
The other thing, jill , before we wrap up, that I
wanted to talk about death andbreathing.
It's a little side thing, Ididn't want to get hung up on
this in today's discussion, butdeath and breathing, as we have
said before, are strong, strongemotions and they will often
(21:44):
show up in what you create,especially if you work with
paints, I think, or evensculptures, and you may process
those emotions of death andgrief by producing something
that represents those emotions.
(22:05):
So before we were talking aboutthe little deaths that come
along so that you can evolve,but if you in your life have
experienced strong grief or adeath that creates that, you may
process those emotions throughyour art.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Ooh, that's nice.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Death and grief show up in our creative process in
many, many ways, from the littleadbd ones to the really strong,
significant ones.
Yes, and it's just all part ofit.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yes, I would.
This is so interesting too,because I'm sure a lot of people
are going to have differentthoughts and feelings about this
.
I would love to hear from ouraudience, especially if you
could go over to our YouTubepage.
You can just click on the linkfor the YouTube video of this in
the comment below.
I'm curious what have youexperienced, because this could
be triggering something like oh,that's what that was, or not to
feel so bad about somethinggoing away, like to me, it's an
(23:07):
encouragement.
If you're feeling like this ishappening in your life, consider
it a fun thing to think forwardto, about what's coming, the
rebirth or the birth ofsomething new.
But I would love to hearstories from other people if
they've experienced this or theyacknowledge it's happening or
has happened in their creativelife.
I would, too.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Jill and in fact when I was reading that chapter on
in Kathy Wilde's book, it wasthat word, death, that hit me
and went.
Oh my God.
I've had all kinds of deaths inmy creativity process, but I
had never associated that wordwith what I'd gone through,
(23:46):
because we just don't naturallythink about death and grief in
the process.
I would be delighted to hearanybody's feedback.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yes, me too, and that would be really interesting to
hear.
And speaking of words, we havenext week we have a special
episode that Mama Judy and I aredoing and it has to do with
words and choosing a word toguide you in your life, in your
creativity, and all that.
So we really want you to tunein.
Next week We'll just have adiscussion and also I'm going to
(24:19):
give you a fun exercise to do.
That has been transformational.
I've been doing this exercisefor probably 10 years now at
least, and we're going to besharing that next week.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yes, and as we leave Jill, I would like to wish
everybody the end of one yearand a happy new year.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yes, happy new year 2024.
Oh my gosh.
All right, Mama Judy, love youand we will talk to you next
week.
All right, everyone Bye-bye.
Thank you, Love you.
Oh good, you made it.
We are so glad you're here.
Welcome to the Mama Judy andJill podcast, an
intergenerational chat aboutlife, art and the creative
process.
I'm your host, jill, andjoining me is my wonderful
co-host and bonus mom, mama Judy.
Let's get started.
Hi everyone, we are so glad tohave you back.
(00:22):
We're here with us today.
Hello, mama Judy.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hi Jill, hi everyone.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It is great to be back here today I wanted to ask
you something, mama Judy.
I know in several of ourpodcasts in the beginning, when
we first started, we wouldalways check in with each other
and say what have you beenworking on lately?
That's been fun, so what haveyou been working on?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Oh, gosh, you know, keeping with that, I got to have
a thousand things going at thesame time.
I've got two journals going on,I've got some experimentation
with acrylics and I have anotherproject that involves stitching
that I found on Facebook, thatI'm going to do for next year.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Oh, I love the idea of what you're going to be
stitching.
Would you care to share that,because I just think that's such
a beautiful thing for anyone toconsider doing it.
I'm actually going to do itmyself after you told me about
it, so can you just tell peoplebriefly what it is?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, I'd be happy to .
And what we can do, jill is, wecan also include in your
written notes where they can seewhere it started.
And I found it on Facebook andit is a woman that does
stitching and we all sometimesget to feeling that the world is
out of control and there'snothing we can do about it, and
(01:41):
so I think what she decided isto do her love of stitching with
random acts of kindness, andshe makes a heart hand stitches
up, she calls it a patch andit's got one or two hearts on it
and it's got this beautiful.
Saying something to the effectof this is for you, and I've
(02:04):
made this.
You can either keep it or passit on, and in a world where you
know, let's sew peace I thinkthat's the name of the project.
So S-O-W-S-E-W-P-E-S.
Yes, and they can then keepthat or pass it on, and it's
(02:25):
just a beautiful sentiment.
And I thought about years ago weused to buy stickers that you
could put anywhere and it was,and it basically said you are
beautiful.
And we would stick them ontrash cans, we would stick them
on benches, wherever.
It's just the idea that maybewhat you put out there will
(02:48):
brighten somebody's day, and younever know when someone gets
something they need to hear atthe right time in their life,
and these patches were kind ofthe same thing.
You leave them in random places, right, and I also love.
I follow an artist that I'vebought some of his paintings in
(03:11):
Utah and what he does is hemakes a small painting and he'll
put it out there with a similarkind of thing.
You have now found an originalpiece of art.
Take it home and enjoy it orpass it on.
I just love creativity and goodintentions behind all these
being shared with the world, soI'm going to do it next year.
(03:34):
I am going to put at some pointit out on my Instagram page,
but I would love it if we couldput it in the notes for the
podcast.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I will link it up for sure.
And I've also seen anotherthing.
Similar is where people dopainted rocks and sometimes if
you flip it over it'll have anice word or a little phrase on
the back.
I saw one the other day thatsaid it was called a rock garden
.
It said take one, leave one,enjoy, or something like that.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, I love that.
We all need those kinds ofthings.
So, anyway, that's what I'mgoing to be doing.
That's my new project.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Good Well, and I was just showing Mama Judy, before
we started the podcast, that Ijust treated myself to some.
If you're watching on YouTube,I'm showing you these paint
brushes I got for watercoloring,so I'm going to be doing some
watercoloring for fun and toincorporate into journals, as
well as some of my stitchingprojects.
I like stitching paper ontofabric sometimes.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I have to interrupt us for a minute.
If you can hear some rumblingin the background of our podcast
, that is thunder rolling acrossthe desert.
We got a great rainstorm.
It's not rainy now.
I am outside, but I can hearthe thunder coming, which I'm
not moving inside.
But if I get struck bylightning.
(04:54):
You will know it.
You guys will be the first toknow.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well, speaking of being struck by lightning, let's
talk about the topic for today.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay, before we go down that rabbit hole too far,
okay, all right.
Now this is going to seemstrange to some people, but not
really.
We are at the end of one yearand a new year, calendar year
will begin, and that thoughtthat one year is dying and a new
(05:25):
year will be born along with aphrase that I read in one of the
books that I periodically pickup got me to thinking about
death in the creative process.
Now, death is usually notsomething that people think
about, especially inrelationship to creativity, but
(05:51):
every time that we go about ourcreative endeavors, there are
small deaths in it.
It could be, for example, thedeath of an idea, it could be
the death of a project.
Now, death the way that I'mpresenting that just to me,
(06:14):
means the end of something.
It doesn't physically mean thatyou're going to die or that
your project is suddenly goingto burst into splings, but that
the idea.
All along in the creativeprocess, we have all kinds of
small, little deaths of things.
(06:35):
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Well, you're right, the way that it sounds the death
it seems like it's got to bedone and gone.
But I like that you're using itin the way of it's an ending in
something, just like you weresaying the calendar year and
ending a death of something.
But tell me more about the ideaof how this for artists, how
can they use this in our livesor in your creative practice for
(07:00):
good?
Because it sounds depressing ina way if you think about it
that way.
But let's talk about how it's agood thing.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Okay, this is a perfect time.
If you guys don't mind melooking down, I'm going to read
the quote that caught my eye,and this is by Kathy Wilde, who
has a book called Wild IdeasCreativity from the Inside Out,
and I think we've referenced herbefore.
(07:29):
Yes, I'll link up that one,because she is one of the books
that I seem to continually pickup.
In every act of creation,something dies so that something
new can be born.
So it's really that idea thatI'm talking about death and
(07:50):
creativity.
If I sit down to do a painting,let's say, and I have an idea
of what I want it to be like,but for some reason that does
not come about, it dies.
In that process of dying I mayfind some new idea that
(08:13):
automatically comes forward andis the rebirth.
It's almost like death can be atransformation in creativity.
One idea can transform intoanother idea, one technique can
transform into a differenttechnique.
(08:34):
So it isn't death and they'redepressing.
Oh my gosh, I'm going to diesomeday, but it is an ending of
something.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yes, and I like that what you said.
It opens up space for newthings to happen, Because if
we're just going to stay with,stay with the whole time, if you
would never move on, really.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
That's right.
And think about it, and I thinksometimes we've all done this.
We get so attached to something, we become in love with an idea
or the vision that we have whatthis painting or this collage
will look like and we hang on toit, and hang on to it even when
it is not working.
(09:18):
To me, part of that is we needto let go, we need to let it die
, let go of it and then see whatcomes out of it.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And it made me think, and I actually, since we're on
a computer, I just looked thisup quickly.
But have you heard the phrasekill your darlings?
No, okay.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I felt that way at times.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I thought it was from Stephen King, but we'll find
out.
It says the phrase kill yourdarlings means eliminating any
part of your writing characters,scenes, sentences, side plots
that, while you might love them,don't serve your story.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Ah well, basically we're talking death is killing
your darlings, that idea thatyou thought would be so great
when you try to execute it, notso good kill it off.
Let it die.
Let it die so that the new cancome forth.
We're letting every year,throughout the world, we let one
(10:21):
calendar year die On December31st at midnight.
2023 is dead, 12.01,.
2024 begins.
We haven't really lost anything, we're just keeping track on
this calendar, but we let onedie so that one can come on.
(10:43):
I think we need to do that andrecognize that in our creative
process and understand it ispart of the process.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Another way to think about it when you were saying
that is that you know, when youdo some this is probably more
with writing and journaling, butand I think this is taking it
more literal, but I just wantyou to hear this one You're
journaling something, you'reespecially pouring your heart
out, your emotions, you know,whatever.
(11:14):
So it's a kind of a therapeutictype thing.
And then, if you ever seenwhere people go and put it into
a fire and let it burn up Beenthere, done that, yeah, and so
that's the same thing too.
It's like a release, becausethe other thing about with death
is if at some point you have tolet go and release things,
whether it's just into the worldor to have open hands for new
(11:35):
things to come.
But the burning of that made methink of a death, of that, but
you still did something goodwith it.
And then it goes up in the airand she's part of the process.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It is, and as you were talking, I was also
envisioning these journals thatI've just completed.
That project is dead as far asthe process of creating them.
So there are these littledeaths throughout the creative
process that we probably don'teven think about, but I thought
(12:07):
it was really interesting thatKathy Weill brought it forward
to remind us that something diesin the creative process so that
something new can be reborn.
And that's also in the naturalworld how things grow, even the
plant that never truly dies off,let's say, a morning glory.
(12:31):
So every year my morning glorydies off to the ground, but then
from the roots below the groundit comes back up the next
spring and maybe that's a goodway to look at our creativity.
Our creativity has roots way,way down into us and some
(12:51):
creative idea will come forwardand then, for whatever the
reason, it will complete itselfone way or another and die off
and a new one will come forth.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, I like that visual that feels good, see
where you have the roots downthere, and it's just a natural
part of being alive in thisworld is death is such a big
part of it.
And the first thing is with artis artists, though, we get to
continually create.
It's not like, oh gosh, thatproject's done, dead, I'm done,
(13:25):
I'm done, I'm out of here.
There's no more art to becreated.
There's nothing more creativefor me to do.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
That's right.
We get to just keep dying andgetting reborn, dying and
getting reborn Along with that.
Another word that maybe peoplehaven't thought about with the
creative process is grief, andwe can get attached again, like
Stephen King or whoever it wasthat you quoted talked about.
(13:51):
We can get attached tosomething that we just can't let
go of, but when we finally letgo of it, we feel horrible or
we're depressed or whatever.
That's part of the grief thatcomes when something dies off.
It's okay to grieve becausethat idea that you were so sure
(14:14):
was going to be great, it wasgoing to be a wonderful painting
, it didn't happen.
It's okay to grieve it To thenatural process of death, and
grieving is part of the rhythmof creativity, if you want to
look at it that way, and I thinkthat's kind of where we need to
(14:35):
look at it and to understandit's all part of the process.
Creativity seems to me to belike the natural world.
Everything that we experiencein the creative process and
being a creative is we'rerepeating what the natural world
does.
The natural world kills thingsoff.
(14:57):
Here goes the helicopter.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You got all kinds of things.
I heard some birds in thebackground earlier.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I am not out on the patio by myself.
The thunder is gone, but thehelicopters are coming by
Hopefully no more.
Anyway, it is.
It's all part of that naturalrhythm.
We're involved in the rhythm oflife and this is, in our
creativity, just part of therhythm of life, death and grief
(15:30):
and being reborn, and we haveall of this, I believe, has very
deep roots that allows ourcreativity to continue when one
dies and another is reborn.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I love that.
It feels like just a goodnatural process to be part of.
It is.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Sometimes we don't think about it or sometimes we
shy away from it because thosethings the letting go of an idea
or a project, or thedisappointment, those are ugly
and messy and they don't feelgood, but they're fleeting.
They should be fleeting as faras the creative process.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Right.
One thing I knew we were goingto talk about this is I looked
up something because I wasthinking about the ego and
there's an actual term calledego death and I thought about
the role of death in thisprocess is of an ego death where
, when we become tooperfectionistic, we're being too
(16:34):
prideful, whatever it is aroundour art to quiet that or
silence that ego part of us andlet that have a death to that
part, so that we can go on andbe creative and be free and not
have that ego hanging over us.
And so, like the ego death.
I just thought that was aninteresting term and it's not
gone forever, obviously, butit'll be waiting for you right
(16:57):
around the corner, but I thinkit's a neat thing to think about
also.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yes, it will be knocking at the door trying to
get back out.
Yes, no, that is.
That's a great thing.
That just again exemplifies thefact that the idea of death is
out there in everything and thatsome death is needed to grow,
to change, to evolve, and Ithink the reason, one of the
(17:26):
reasons, like I said, we wereending one year and beginning a
new one, but I also wanted touse these words like death and
grief because normally they'renot considered things you
normally would talk about andthey're just there, they're part
of it.
They're not necessarily bad inthe way that we're talking about
(17:52):
them.
We're something dies in orderto be reborn and we have to let
it die.
We have to grieve it if we needto, and then move on to what's
coming forth.
It's again, as you pointed out,jill, it's just part of the
natural process.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And another thing I just thought I was used to do a
lot of jewelry with beading andyou've gone away from that a
little bit.
So I'm wondering you've goneaway from that some because was
it part of it?
Because it's so small in yourhands and stuff it wasn't
comfortable.
Is that why you kind of quitdoing that so much?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
You know that's perfect, because I was going to
bring that up, so thank you.
Oh no, it died a natural death.
I did it for probably close to15 years in some form and then,
all of a sudden, without evenknowing it, I just did not want
(18:52):
to do it anymore.
I just I couldn't even.
I just didn't want to do it.
Period.
That's a natural death.
Yes, what that did.
After a period and I'm lookingback now I didn't realize it was
a natural death I couldn'tfigure out for a while.
(19:14):
I couldn't figure out, well,why don't I want to do this?
I love doing this and it justwasn't there.
After a period of almost likean incubation period, the
journals showed up.
So if I look at that process,if we look at my process, that's
exactly what happened.
(19:34):
One form of creativity died offnaturally and another form
eventually took root, evenwithin my journals, where I
started several years ago.
I've noticed on Instagram theydon't look like what they look
(19:54):
like today, right.
So again, death and evolutionand growth.
Yeah, and thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, and it also doesn't mean that this might not
be the case for you, but youcould go back to doing beating
and jewelry and then there'sjust a new version of that.
That's reborn.
Doubt that you will, but whoknows?
I mean, I'm just saying, ifsomeone's listening, there could
be something that you do for along time and really enjoy, and
it has its natural death, andthen it may come back around and
have a rebirth.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And it's funny that you should mention that.
You must be sitting inside myhead listening to what I'm going
to talk about.
But it has been shooting itslittle tendrils back up here in
the last 10, 12 months and Ihave a lot of supplies and it
will come again.
(20:44):
But it is not going to be thebeaded embroidery work that I
used to do.
It will be in a different form.
It will be in the form that itneeds to be where my creativity
is.
Now.
I don't know what that lookslike, but it's just waiting for
me to.
It's just in the death andrebirth process.
(21:08):
It's just getting strong enoughfor me to take it up again.
So it is, it's going to comeback.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, that's a beautiful thing.
I can't wait to see what you dowith your beads Me either just
a surprise.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
The other thing, jill , before we wrap up, that I
wanted to talk about death andbreathing.
It's a little side thing, Ididn't want to get hung up on
this in today's discussion, butdeath and breathing, as we have
said before, are strong, strongemotions and they will often
(21:44):
show up in what you create,especially if you work with
paints, I think, or evensculptures, and you may process
those emotions of death andgrief by producing something
that represents those emotions.
(22:05):
So before we were talking aboutthe little deaths that come
along so that you can evolve,but if you in your life have
experienced strong grief or adeath that creates that, you may
process those emotions throughyour art.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Ooh, that's nice.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Death and grief show up in our creative process in
many, many ways, from the littleadbd ones to the really strong,
significant ones.
Yes, and it's just all part ofit.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yes, I would.
This is so interesting too,because I'm sure a lot of people
are going to have differentthoughts and feelings about this
.
I would love to hear from ouraudience, especially if you
could go over to our YouTubepage.
You can just click on the linkfor the YouTube video of this in
the comment below.
I'm curious what have youexperienced, because this could
be triggering something like oh,that's what that was, or not to
feel so bad about somethinggoing away, like to me, it's an
(23:07):
encouragement.
If you're feeling like this ishappening in your life, consider
it a fun thing to think forwardto, about what's coming, the
rebirth or the birth ofsomething new.
But I would love to hearstories from other people if
they've experienced this or theyacknowledge it's happening or
has happened in their creativelife.
I would, too.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Jill and in fact when I was reading that chapter on
in Kathy Wilde's book, it wasthat word, death, that hit me
and went.
Oh my God.
I've had all kinds of deaths inmy creativity process, but I
had never associated that wordwith what I'd gone through,
(23:46):
because we just don't naturallythink about death and grief in
the process.
I would be delighted to hearanybody's feedback.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yes, me too, and that would be really interesting to
hear.
And speaking of words, we havenext week we have a special
episode that Mama Judy and I aredoing and it has to do with
words and choosing a word toguide you in your life, in your
creativity, and all that.
So we really want you to tunein.
Next week We'll just have adiscussion and also I'm going to
(24:19):
give you a fun exercise to do.
That has been transformational.
I've been doing this exercisefor probably 10 years now at
least, and we're going to besharing that next week.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yes, and as we leave Jill, I would like to wish
everybody the end of one yearand a happy new year.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yes, happy new year 2024.
Oh my gosh.
All right, Mama Judy, love youand we will talk to you next
week.
All right, everyone Bye-bye.
Thank you, Love you.
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