September 6, 2023 • 27 mins
This week Mama Judy and I are diving into the age-old question of why humans are drawn to create art.
We discuss how art provides you with a way to express the inner part of your being – a way that traditional forms of communication can’t express. Mama Judy shares how doing art can physiologically change your body, alleviating anxiety and pain. And we both share how creating art can bring you a sense of joy.
We’d love to hear from you… why do YOU do art?
Resources mentioned in episode:
Book: The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin
Artists on Instagram mentioned:
Alex Castro Ferreira
Carinne Meyerink Instagram
If you'd prefer to watch this podcast, you can find us over on our YouTube page (The Mama Judy & Jill Podcast).
We'd LOVE to hear from you! Click here to send us your thoughts and ideas for a future episode.
Send us a direct message on Instagram:
>> Mama Judy on Instagram
>>Jill on Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jill (00:19):
Welcome back to the Mama, Judy and Jill podcast.
We're so glad you're here withus today.
Hi Mama.
Judy.
Mama Judy (00:25):
Hi Jill and hi everybody.
Either watching or listening.
We are very glad to have youwith us.
Jill (00:32):
We sure are.
And today, mama, Judy and I aregoing to be talking about why do
any of us even do art?
Why do we do art?
So that's the thing that wewanted to talk about today.
But first of all, I wanted to,mention Mama Judy is sitting
here.
We do these recordings on Zoomso we can see each other.
This is also something that goeson YouTube, so you can watch
(00:53):
these episodes on YouTube, butMama Judy is sitting in all her
glory right now with rosecolored glasses.
I'm not kidding you.
Rose colored glasses.
She's looking beautiful.
And Mama.
Judy, tell us a little bit aboutwhy you're wearing your rose
colored glasses today.
Mama Judy (01:10):
You know, I'd like to say it was something profound,
but.
The light coming through thewindow is very bright, and I
thought, well, I can't put on mydark glasses.
So I had these, uh, Jack hadthese lying around and I
thought, well, they matched myoutfit and I've always been
(01:30):
accused of wearing rose coloredglasses and my optimistic
attitude.
And I thought, well, why not?
So here I am in these gigantic.
Rose colored glasses.
Jill (01:42):
Yes, you look very groovy.
And the light that she's talkingabout, mama Judy is in her
travel.
So, if you've listened to someof our other episodes, She and
my dad travel for months at atime in the summer to get out of
the heat.
And so tell everybody where youare right now, mama Judy.
Mama Judy (01:58):
For this month, right now we are in Park City, Utah,
and it's a beautiful place, veryhappy to be here.
However, I will say that thealtitude of over 7,000 feet
makes me gasp for breath.
So if you hear me panting,you'll know it's only because of
(02:19):
the altitude.
Jill (02:21):
Well, you and dad had also gone up to Big Bear, California,
mountain and, and you werehaving, you had the same
experience.
And then are you guys usingoxygen?
Like I know in High Mountainplaces they have oxygen that
they sell at stores that you canuse.
You
Mama Judy (02:37):
bet.
We got our little oxygencontainers and when you go from
living at sea level to going to7,300.
73 feet.
It is a change for your body, sowe're doing fine.
It's just that every now andthen you have to take an extra
(02:58):
deep breath.
Jill (03:00):
Yes, well breathe freely as we're talking.
Mama Judy (03:03):
And like I said, if you hear the panting, it's only
because of that.
Okay, well, let's, how about wejust jump right into our, topic
today and Mama Judy, I wouldlove to start off with a quote,
you and I both have read thisbook called The Creative Act, a
Way of Being, and it's by RickRubin.
(03:23):
Rick Rubin is a music producer.
he is an author.
He wrote this book.
It's a great book, for not onlyif you're a creative person, I
just feel like it's a wonderfulbook either way.
But I've got a couple quotesthat I might reference, but I
wanted to start us off with oneas to the topic of why do we
even do art?
So Rick says, the reason we arealive is to express ourselves in
(03:47):
the world and creating art maybe the most effective and
beautiful method of doing so.
Art goes beyond language, beyondlives.
It's a universal way to sendmessages between each other and
through time.
Oh, that's beautiful.
Beautiful.
Yeah, and I agree with you Jill.
(04:09):
Let me, back up for just asecond.
Another artist I follow onInstagram had put this out as
the best book she has ever readon creativity.
So of course I immediately ranout and got it on Kendall, and I
agree with her.
I love everything he says.
And his comment about arttranscending language in a way
(04:34):
ties back to our previous eepisodes eight and nine, where
we talk about art, healing pain.
Because in any part of life,art.
Does transcend language.
It is a way for us to expressourselves that words are
(04:56):
inadequate to say, to use.
But that aside, there are a lotof people that wouldn't even ask
this question.
They just.
They just do their art becausethey know they have to, and I am
a bit like that, but there havebeen times where I'm sitting
there and I've got all thesepages in this room full of
(05:18):
supplies and I'm going, youknow, why are you doing this?
It's, it just kind of flittersacross.
It's not something that hangsaround too long.
And so I've often wondered whydo we create arch.
And it is a way to express aninner part of our being.
(05:39):
I believe something that we arenot even necessarily aware of, A
part of us that, for example,Jill, in your stitching, you may
find yourself learning aboutyourself.
Or having thoughts come up thatif you were just sitting around
doing something else, theywouldn't even appear.
(06:02):
So that's a way of yourstitching help you access an
inner deeper, more spiritualpart of yourself.
Jill (06:12):
Yes.
Now, one word you said a minuteago, you said some people feel
like they have to mm-hmm.
Tell me what, what that means.
Mama Judy (06:23):
I can only tell you from experience that if I go,
even when I was not focusing onmixed media when I was younger
and it was sewing or it was somejewelry making, there is a low
grade anxiety that occurs in meand it makes me very restless if
(06:45):
I.
Have not been able to dosomething creative, and I'm
going to say usually after aboutthree or four days, it literally
physiologically changes my body.
It's like something inside thatcan't wait to get out, and if I
(07:06):
don't have access to it, itdrives me nuts.
Wow.
Maybe not literally, but youknow, it kind of does.
Yeah.
I become very antsy, veryunsettled.
Jill (07:18):
Yes.
Well, and I think that in and insome people, and you referenced
this in episode eight, when wedid the art, as a way of healing
when we talked about our ownmethods of using art as a
healing mechanism.
you know that you have lupus.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think that could beanother thing if you keep it all
trapped in, I would guess thatit potentially could make you
(07:39):
physically feel.
sick or, or hurt?
Yes.
With the lupus,
Mama Judy (07:46):
absolutely.
Because number one thing withlupus that causes a flare up is
stress.
Now we always think of stress assomething bad, but stress can be
something good, excitement,something's gonna happen.
So, you know, I really shouldfigure out how I can go through
life.
In total neutral, but I can't.
(08:09):
And so the art making, as Ireferenced in episode eight with
the lupus is a way for me to notonly get out of the physical
pain, but to settle myself.
Mm.
Art settles me.
You know, I was just saying, itmakes me antsy if I can't do
art.
And it's true.
(08:29):
So when I do it, it's like, calmme.
Yes.
And it really doesn't matterwhat form of creativity it is,
as long as it's creative in someway.
So that's that need inside of meto create something that I don't
(08:53):
know what it is.
And it really, it's irrelevantwhat it is.
It's none of my business what itis.
Hmm.
I just have to allow itexpression.
I.
Jill (09:03):
Right.
Another part of this book thatwe were speaking about, the
Creative Act, one of thechapters Rick was talking about
how creativity is like a riverand the ideas are just flowing
through us as long as we'reletting it out.
But if we stop,'cause he, hesaid something about in the
book, and I can imagine this.
Imagine you're working on one ofyour books, your collage books,
(09:25):
or I'm doing a stitching orsome, sometimes you, Might not
want to either, give, give itaway, or you might not wanna
like cover it up with somethingor change it because you feel
like this is so good, I'm nevergonna do something again, or I'm
not gonna go forward with this'cause what if I ruin it this
way?
And he said, you need to justkeep letting it.
Flow out of you because thenmore will come.
(09:47):
And if you, if you don't let it,it's gonna actually stop and
you'll get stagnant or, youknow, get antsy or whatever.
But the fact that you're lettingit flow through you will
ultimately help you become morecreative and have even more
ideas and just feel better aboutcreating.
Mama Judy (10:01):
Absolutely.
And.
I have heard that quote before.
unfortunately I can't rememberthe author of that.
It wasn't Rick Rubal, althoughhe's saying the same thing, and
that's what they said.
This is something that neverceases.
It's always there, and so youjust have to get out of the way.
(10:24):
You know, in our culture, we'reso used to.
Analyzing things and figuringthings out, and why did I do
that and why did I do this?
But with art and creativity,sometimes that's the opposite of
what you need to do.
You need to just let it flow.
Mm-hmm.
I know that everybody out therehas a, they could tell us their
(10:50):
reasons for doing art.
Some of them would mirror whatI, we've said, and some of them
might be because I've alwaysknown I wanted to be an artist
and this is my livelihood.
But beyond that, I think thereis just a need in the human
being to create and express.
(11:12):
And if I might pick up my phone,change my rose colored glasses.
For my little brown boringreading glasses, Rick Rubin has
a quote that I just think sumsit up.
If we like what we are creating,we don't have to know why.
(11:34):
Sometimes the reasons areobvious, sometimes not, and they
can change over time.
It could be good for any of athousand different reasons.
When we're making things welove, our mission is
accomplished.
There is nothing to figure out.
(11:55):
And I think at the bottom of it,that's what I think is that if
we're making something we likeend of discussion.
Yes.
That's why we're making it.
It's something we love to do.
It brings us happiness.
There are so many ways toexpress ourselves creatively
(12:18):
that it doesn't matter what theart form is, as long as we are
happy with it.
Now, I don't mean that, thatmeans that every time you do a
stitch or I do a journal page,we're gonna go, Ooh, boy, I
really like that.
There'll be times when you go,oh, that's, I don't like that,
(12:39):
but we're still doing it.
Like Reuben said, we're stillmoving through that water.
You know, if anybody, if I canuse an analogy on the river that
Rick talked about, imagine thatriver.
And it gets jammed up with logsor a beaver builds a dam across
(13:02):
the river.
Well, on the other side of thatlog jam or that dam, there's no
trickle.
It's all stuck behind thatobstacle.
So, We need to remove theobstacles to our river of
creativity, whatever that means.
(13:22):
Sometimes people don't even knowwhat that means, and you have to
examine yourself and say, why amI stuck?
Why am I not doing, why am Idoing this?
And if you can say, I do thisbecause I enjoy it, you don't
have to answer to anybody else.
You don't even have to.
(13:44):
Show people if you don't wantto.
That's kind of a byproduct.
You're doing it because it'ssomething you love and you have
a need to express yourself.
So let me turn this back over inyour direction.
Jill, when you startedstitching, why did you start
stitching?
Jill (14:07):
Well, I wanted something to do that would be fun.
I, with my hands, I, I just,I've always liked to do arts and
crafts, but it's usually justlike little simple things, you
know, nothing like the stitchingand not that stitching is hard,
but I.
And so I wanted to do, have,just have a neat, fun hobby that
I could do anywhere.
(14:27):
And I had heard about that somepeople do it slow stitching as a
meditation practice.
Mm-hmm.
And so I thought, I've alwaysdone meditation for many years,
but just sit quietly for 10minutes.
quietly with my thoughts orwithout my thoughts hopefully.
and I, I thought that would befun to replace that if I could
quietly be stitching and havethat be my meditation time
instead.
So that it was sort of a twofoldreason and I was so inspired by
(14:52):
seeing you mostly.
'cause at that time I wasn't onInstagram, on my Instagram
account.
Jelly G creates, I was just mynormal account.
And I would, see you posting allyour wonderful things and it was
just inspiring me.
And I think something inside ofme, part that I was born with or
whatever, was like yearning todo something.
(15:13):
Not just exactly like you weredoing, but doing something to
express myself.
I, I didn't think that that's, Icould articulate that that's
what it was, but I probablywanted something to express
myself.
Mama Judy (15:25):
That's it.
That word yearning is a perfectword because that is sometimes a
lot of times buried and younever know when it's gonna come
out.
And how many, I cannot tell youhow many times I've heard people
say, I'm not creative.
I couldn't do things like that,which I don't believe.
(15:49):
I think it's more an examplelike you found.
It just hasn't found its perfectform of expression.
And I'm sorry I even used theword perfect, but it's form of
expression.
Now, let me ask you this.
Now that you've been doing itand you've enjoyed it so much,
(16:10):
can you imagine not doing it?
Jill (16:13):
No.
I cannot imagine.
I was doing some work earlierand today I have the day off.
It's Friday.
where I work, everyonelistening.
I have a four day work week, soI have Fridays off and I was
working this morning in mypajamas until like 1130 in the
morning.
I was,'cause I couldn't get up.
(16:34):
I went in there in the morningto do some stuff and I just
didn't get up again.
So I had my pajamas on and I wasjust smiling as I was working
and I was just so grateful thatI have this outlet that I didn't
even know, knew that I had thisoutlet two years ago.
Mama Judy (16:48):
Right.
And at that time of someone thatsaid something to you, you
would've said, oh, I'm notcreative.
Jill (16:56):
I did, I told you that many times, right?
You would say, oh, Jill triedthis, or I, you all listening, I
would go to Mama Judy's houseand you know, I was so excited
'cause she would sit down andput the journal stuff out and,
you know, teach me differentthings.
But even while she was doingthat and she was guiding me
through it and being a goodteacher and inspirational and.
You know, having me, be my owncreative self, I still, in the
(17:19):
back of my mind was like, well,if Mama Judy's not sitting here
holding my hand, like there's noway I can be creative like this
on my own.
So I figured this is just aone-time thing, you know?
And so I.
While I don't do the kinds ofthings you do specifically, I
found my other thing, but Iguess the point too is if, if
people don't know you have totry things or you just have to
(17:42):
listen to some sort of yearningin your soul and just try and,
and be okay with not creatingsomething perfect.
Mama Judy (17:49):
Oh yeah.
And we touched on perfectionism.
Back in one of our earlierepisodes.
Yes.
but I think you're a perfectexample, Jill, of what?
A lot of people, includingmyself, before I found my
creative voice or even realizedI had one, we just don't know
what that yearning feelingmeans.
(18:12):
My recommendation to anybodythat's out there that feels like
some kind of feeling is insideof them.
Just start trying differentthings.
You're gonna be like Jill, inthat you're gonna find something
that resonates with your heart.
(18:32):
I have over the years, just donedifferent things, and that's
okay too.
I'm just evolving, or I don'teven know if that's the right
word that I would use, but itdoesn't matter where you start.
That's that old adage.
A journey of a thousand milesbegins with one step.
(18:57):
So if you're out there and youhave some kind of yearning and
you look at other people'screativity and you wish you
could do that, you can.
You just have not found yourexpression.
And when we started this, sorry,I have to take a deep breath.
When we started this, we said,why do we do this?
(19:20):
Well, Even though we do it forfun, we do it to express
ourselves.
we do it to sell, we do it for avariety of reasons.
I think at the bottom of it,there's just this human d n a to
creatively express ourselves.
(19:43):
someone once asked me, this is.
Tied in, but a little off.
What's the difference between acraft and art?
And the big difference isimagination.
So I think in our creativity,all of us have that imagination
that is asking to be recognized,and we have to recognize it
(20:08):
before anybody else
Jill (20:10):
does.
So what do you mean that acraft.
Are you saying?
Are you saying that, when you doa craft, you're not using your
imagination?
And what would you define craftas if that's correct?
Mama Judy (20:21):
Yes, I am saying that a craft, you are not using your
imagination, and I'm gonna goback to the master of all things
to me, is Michelangelo.
Mm-hmm.
Michelangelo learned the craftof sculpting by being a
journeyman for years withanother sculptor.
(20:43):
He took it to the art form whenhe took those skills.
And used his imagination tocreate things like the David or
the Madonna.
when I was younger, I was givenpaint by number kids.
(21:04):
Mm-hmm.
That's.
The beginning of using yourimagination something that is
functional.
For example, a craft would besomething that has a functional
edge.
The big difference, and I'mprobably sounding a little vague
(21:24):
here.
But the big difference in myview is that when your own
imagination comes into play, youhave gone from a craft to an
art.
Mm-hmm.
Because I can make a kit and Ican give it to someone, and they
(21:45):
simply follow instructions andthey're not using their
imagination.
But when they take the skillsthey've learned from something
and then they do it their wayand they add their pieces and
their imagination.
Now they've transcended thoseskills and they have gone into
(22:07):
an art form.
Jill (22:09):
Yes.
And I think, does that makesense?
It does.
And I wanna say that speaking ofthe kits for people that, and I
think most of our listenersprobably are artistic already.
Yes.
For people.
And if, if the, our listeners,if you all know of somebody that
doesn't feel like they know howto do something, start them with
a kit.
There's a lot of beautiful,people on Instagram like that
(22:30):
sell their kits on Etsy and youknow, they send you the stuff
with the instructions.
It's, and that is somethingthat, well I would still do it
kid occasionally, but years agothat could have been just the
thing to go, okay, I get this,this is fun.
And be able to.
Feel empowered to createsomething, even though it's not
using my imagination, like yousaid, but it's still, you're
(22:51):
creating something, it's justYes.
Mama Judy (22:53):
yes.
So absolutely.
There are some wonderful kitsout there.
Artistic kits.
Mm-hmm.
Um, Alex, for example, inPortugal, does some beautiful
kits for making journals, andthere are all kinds of things
out there.
So yes, the most important thingout of all of this is if you
haven't taken the first step,take the step, however, you have
(23:17):
to take that first step.
Jill (23:19):
And since you mentioned Alex from Portugal, I will link
up to her Instagram handle sopeople can go there.
And I have another one, I thinkher name, name is, Corinne
Myrick or something like that,but she's another one that does
some stitching type, ones thatare very inspirational and fun.
I'll link up to those two, butthere's lots more than that.
And there's so many wonderfulcreative people in the community
that sell those things on Etsyand that type of thing.
Mama Judy (23:41):
Absolutely.
And you know, Jill, you and Ihave talked about our journeys
and how we got to our creativespots where we are now.
We have referenced an extremelycreative person, Rick Rubin.
I would be interested if anybodylistening or watching wanted to
(24:03):
give us comments on their ownpersonal journey.
Why do they make.
Why do they love creating?
see, some of it may be whatwe've talked about, but there
may be people out there that doit for things I haven't ever
thought about.
Right.
And I'd love to hear'em.
Jill (24:22):
Okay, great.
Well, when this episode airsthen what we'll do, mama Judy,
is you and I both will put apost and we'll pose that
question.
You'll put one on your account.
I'll put one on my Instagramaccount.
People, if they're watching iton YouTube, you can just comment
below.
that answer to that question.
You're right.
I would love to hear what peoplesay.
And I think that the fact, whenother people comment and share
(24:43):
their own experience, it couldbe a learning experience for
somebody else.
That might be, it might inspiresomeone else to action or to
think about, something in a newway.
So that's a great idea.
Mama Judy (24:53):
You know, you and I, again, repeating myself, we do
our own stories, but I likeother people's stories too.
I do too.
So I hope people will share someof their stories on any of our
episodes.
we love the feedback.
Yes.
Well, I guess that's notfeedback.
We love the conversations.
Jill (25:14):
Yes, we do.
We do.
Well, this was a funconversation, so, oh, I had one
more quote.
Let me just see if it's a goodone.
Still.
I'm gonna, we can close out withthis one.
It's a Rick Rubin quote again.
It says, we feel compelled toengage as if by some primal
instinct, the same force thatcalls turtles toward the sea
(25:36):
after hatching in the sand.
We follow this instinct to denyit is dispiriting as if we are
in violation of nature.
Ooh, he ha.
Mama Judy (25:48):
See what I mean?
He just, I know, takes the wordsand the thoughts.
That's perfect.
Jill (25:53):
Yeah.
And, and that's him.
That's his creativity.
I love that.
He, his art is this, he createhelping people create music as
well, but also is this the, theform of writing?
It's a beautiful piece of art.
Mama Judy (26:04):
Yes.
And both of us can highlyrecommend that book.
And I think that that's it.
I think you feel like if youhave this yearning that you talk
to, but you haven't been able toexpress it, it's almost.
It is a feeling of going againstthe natural order or against
(26:26):
nature.
I'm a living, I have to create,I have to go back up the river
like the salmon do.
I have to create, I'm okay withthat.
If I'm part of the naturalenvironment, I do things like
the turtles or the fish.
I'm okay with that.
I think that's kind of cool.
Jill (26:48):
I do too.
I think that's really cool.
Alright, mama Judy.
Well, this was fun.
I love you and your rose coloredglasses.
Thank you.
And we will talk to you again.
And thank you all for listening.
We appreciate you so much and wewill talk to you next week.
Mama Judy (27:04):
Yes, thank you my
Jill (27:07):
dear.
Welcome back to the Mama, Judy and Jill podcast.
We're so glad you're here withus today.
Hi Mama.
Judy.
Mama Judy (00:25):
Hi Jill and hi everybody.
Either watching or listening.
We are very glad to have youwith us.
Jill (00:32):
We sure are.
And today, mama, Judy and I aregoing to be talking about why do
any of us even do art?
Why do we do art?
So that's the thing that wewanted to talk about today.
But first of all, I wanted to,mention Mama Judy is sitting
here.
We do these recordings on Zoomso we can see each other.
This is also something that goeson YouTube, so you can watch
(00:53):
these episodes on YouTube, butMama Judy is sitting in all her
glory right now with rosecolored glasses.
I'm not kidding you.
Rose colored glasses.
She's looking beautiful.
And Mama.
Judy, tell us a little bit aboutwhy you're wearing your rose
colored glasses today.
Mama Judy (01:10):
You know, I'd like to say it was something profound,
but.
The light coming through thewindow is very bright, and I
thought, well, I can't put on mydark glasses.
So I had these, uh, Jack hadthese lying around and I
thought, well, they matched myoutfit and I've always been
(01:30):
accused of wearing rose coloredglasses and my optimistic
attitude.
And I thought, well, why not?
So here I am in these gigantic.
Rose colored glasses.
Jill (01:42):
Yes, you look very groovy.
And the light that she's talkingabout, mama Judy is in her
travel.
So, if you've listened to someof our other episodes, She and
my dad travel for months at atime in the summer to get out of
the heat.
And so tell everybody where youare right now, mama Judy.
Mama Judy (01:58):
For this month, right now we are in Park City, Utah,
and it's a beautiful place, veryhappy to be here.
However, I will say that thealtitude of over 7,000 feet
makes me gasp for breath.
So if you hear me panting,you'll know it's only because of
(02:19):
the altitude.
Jill (02:21):
Well, you and dad had also gone up to Big Bear, California,
mountain and, and you werehaving, you had the same
experience.
And then are you guys usingoxygen?
Like I know in High Mountainplaces they have oxygen that
they sell at stores that you canuse.
You
Mama Judy (02:37):
bet.
We got our little oxygencontainers and when you go from
living at sea level to going to7,300.
73 feet.
It is a change for your body, sowe're doing fine.
It's just that every now andthen you have to take an extra
(02:58):
deep breath.
Jill (03:00):
Yes, well breathe freely as we're talking.
Mama Judy (03:03):
And like I said, if you hear the panting, it's only
because of that.
Okay, well, let's, how about wejust jump right into our, topic
today and Mama Judy, I wouldlove to start off with a quote,
you and I both have read thisbook called The Creative Act, a
Way of Being, and it's by RickRubin.
(03:23):
Rick Rubin is a music producer.
he is an author.
He wrote this book.
It's a great book, for not onlyif you're a creative person, I
just feel like it's a wonderfulbook either way.
But I've got a couple quotesthat I might reference, but I
wanted to start us off with oneas to the topic of why do we
even do art?
So Rick says, the reason we arealive is to express ourselves in
(03:47):
the world and creating art maybe the most effective and
beautiful method of doing so.
Art goes beyond language, beyondlives.
It's a universal way to sendmessages between each other and
through time.
Oh, that's beautiful.
Beautiful.
Yeah, and I agree with you Jill.
(04:09):
Let me, back up for just asecond.
Another artist I follow onInstagram had put this out as
the best book she has ever readon creativity.
So of course I immediately ranout and got it on Kendall, and I
agree with her.
I love everything he says.
And his comment about arttranscending language in a way
(04:34):
ties back to our previous eepisodes eight and nine, where
we talk about art, healing pain.
Because in any part of life,art.
Does transcend language.
It is a way for us to expressourselves that words are
(04:56):
inadequate to say, to use.
But that aside, there are a lotof people that wouldn't even ask
this question.
They just.
They just do their art becausethey know they have to, and I am
a bit like that, but there havebeen times where I'm sitting
there and I've got all thesepages in this room full of
(05:18):
supplies and I'm going, youknow, why are you doing this?
It's, it just kind of flittersacross.
It's not something that hangsaround too long.
And so I've often wondered whydo we create arch.
And it is a way to express aninner part of our being.
(05:39):
I believe something that we arenot even necessarily aware of, A
part of us that, for example,Jill, in your stitching, you may
find yourself learning aboutyourself.
Or having thoughts come up thatif you were just sitting around
doing something else, theywouldn't even appear.
(06:02):
So that's a way of yourstitching help you access an
inner deeper, more spiritualpart of yourself.
Jill (06:12):
Yes.
Now, one word you said a minuteago, you said some people feel
like they have to mm-hmm.
Tell me what, what that means.
Mama Judy (06:23):
I can only tell you from experience that if I go,
even when I was not focusing onmixed media when I was younger
and it was sewing or it was somejewelry making, there is a low
grade anxiety that occurs in meand it makes me very restless if
(06:45):
I.
Have not been able to dosomething creative, and I'm
going to say usually after aboutthree or four days, it literally
physiologically changes my body.
It's like something inside thatcan't wait to get out, and if I
(07:06):
don't have access to it, itdrives me nuts.
Wow.
Maybe not literally, but youknow, it kind of does.
Yeah.
I become very antsy, veryunsettled.
Jill (07:18):
Yes.
Well, and I think that in and insome people, and you referenced
this in episode eight, when wedid the art, as a way of healing
when we talked about our ownmethods of using art as a
healing mechanism.
you know that you have lupus.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think that could beanother thing if you keep it all
trapped in, I would guess thatit potentially could make you
(07:39):
physically feel.
sick or, or hurt?
Yes.
With the lupus,
Mama Judy (07:46):
absolutely.
Because number one thing withlupus that causes a flare up is
stress.
Now we always think of stress assomething bad, but stress can be
something good, excitement,something's gonna happen.
So, you know, I really shouldfigure out how I can go through
life.
In total neutral, but I can't.
(08:09):
And so the art making, as Ireferenced in episode eight with
the lupus is a way for me to notonly get out of the physical
pain, but to settle myself.
Mm.
Art settles me.
You know, I was just saying, itmakes me antsy if I can't do
art.
And it's true.
(08:29):
So when I do it, it's like, calmme.
Yes.
And it really doesn't matterwhat form of creativity it is,
as long as it's creative in someway.
So that's that need inside of meto create something that I don't
(08:53):
know what it is.
And it really, it's irrelevantwhat it is.
It's none of my business what itis.
Hmm.
I just have to allow itexpression.
I.
Jill (09:03):
Right.
Another part of this book thatwe were speaking about, the
Creative Act, one of thechapters Rick was talking about
how creativity is like a riverand the ideas are just flowing
through us as long as we'reletting it out.
But if we stop,'cause he, hesaid something about in the
book, and I can imagine this.
Imagine you're working on one ofyour books, your collage books,
(09:25):
or I'm doing a stitching orsome, sometimes you, Might not
want to either, give, give itaway, or you might not wanna
like cover it up with somethingor change it because you feel
like this is so good, I'm nevergonna do something again, or I'm
not gonna go forward with this'cause what if I ruin it this
way?
And he said, you need to justkeep letting it.
Flow out of you because thenmore will come.
(09:47):
And if you, if you don't let it,it's gonna actually stop and
you'll get stagnant or, youknow, get antsy or whatever.
But the fact that you're lettingit flow through you will
ultimately help you become morecreative and have even more
ideas and just feel better aboutcreating.
Mama Judy (10:01):
Absolutely.
And.
I have heard that quote before.
unfortunately I can't rememberthe author of that.
It wasn't Rick Rubal, althoughhe's saying the same thing, and
that's what they said.
This is something that neverceases.
It's always there, and so youjust have to get out of the way.
(10:24):
You know, in our culture, we'reso used to.
Analyzing things and figuringthings out, and why did I do
that and why did I do this?
But with art and creativity,sometimes that's the opposite of
what you need to do.
You need to just let it flow.
Mm-hmm.
I know that everybody out therehas a, they could tell us their
(10:50):
reasons for doing art.
Some of them would mirror whatI, we've said, and some of them
might be because I've alwaysknown I wanted to be an artist
and this is my livelihood.
But beyond that, I think thereis just a need in the human
being to create and express.
(11:12):
And if I might pick up my phone,change my rose colored glasses.
For my little brown boringreading glasses, Rick Rubin has
a quote that I just think sumsit up.
If we like what we are creating,we don't have to know why.
(11:34):
Sometimes the reasons areobvious, sometimes not, and they
can change over time.
It could be good for any of athousand different reasons.
When we're making things welove, our mission is
accomplished.
There is nothing to figure out.
(11:55):
And I think at the bottom of it,that's what I think is that if
we're making something we likeend of discussion.
Yes.
That's why we're making it.
It's something we love to do.
It brings us happiness.
There are so many ways toexpress ourselves creatively
(12:18):
that it doesn't matter what theart form is, as long as we are
happy with it.
Now, I don't mean that, thatmeans that every time you do a
stitch or I do a journal page,we're gonna go, Ooh, boy, I
really like that.
There'll be times when you go,oh, that's, I don't like that,
(12:39):
but we're still doing it.
Like Reuben said, we're stillmoving through that water.
You know, if anybody, if I canuse an analogy on the river that
Rick talked about, imagine thatriver.
And it gets jammed up with logsor a beaver builds a dam across
(13:02):
the river.
Well, on the other side of thatlog jam or that dam, there's no
trickle.
It's all stuck behind thatobstacle.
So, We need to remove theobstacles to our river of
creativity, whatever that means.
(13:22):
Sometimes people don't even knowwhat that means, and you have to
examine yourself and say, why amI stuck?
Why am I not doing, why am Idoing this?
And if you can say, I do thisbecause I enjoy it, you don't
have to answer to anybody else.
You don't even have to.
(13:44):
Show people if you don't wantto.
That's kind of a byproduct.
You're doing it because it'ssomething you love and you have
a need to express yourself.
So let me turn this back over inyour direction.
Jill, when you startedstitching, why did you start
stitching?
Jill (14:07):
Well, I wanted something to do that would be fun.
I, with my hands, I, I just,I've always liked to do arts and
crafts, but it's usually justlike little simple things, you
know, nothing like the stitchingand not that stitching is hard,
but I.
And so I wanted to do, have,just have a neat, fun hobby that
I could do anywhere.
(14:27):
And I had heard about that somepeople do it slow stitching as a
meditation practice.
Mm-hmm.
And so I thought, I've alwaysdone meditation for many years,
but just sit quietly for 10minutes.
quietly with my thoughts orwithout my thoughts hopefully.
and I, I thought that would befun to replace that if I could
quietly be stitching and havethat be my meditation time
instead.
So that it was sort of a twofoldreason and I was so inspired by
(14:52):
seeing you mostly.
'cause at that time I wasn't onInstagram, on my Instagram
account.
Jelly G creates, I was just mynormal account.
And I would, see you posting allyour wonderful things and it was
just inspiring me.
And I think something inside ofme, part that I was born with or
whatever, was like yearning todo something.
(15:13):
Not just exactly like you weredoing, but doing something to
express myself.
I, I didn't think that that's, Icould articulate that that's
what it was, but I probablywanted something to express
myself.
Mama Judy (15:25):
That's it.
That word yearning is a perfectword because that is sometimes a
lot of times buried and younever know when it's gonna come
out.
And how many, I cannot tell youhow many times I've heard people
say, I'm not creative.
I couldn't do things like that,which I don't believe.
(15:49):
I think it's more an examplelike you found.
It just hasn't found its perfectform of expression.
And I'm sorry I even used theword perfect, but it's form of
expression.
Now, let me ask you this.
Now that you've been doing itand you've enjoyed it so much,
(16:10):
can you imagine not doing it?
Jill (16:13):
No.
I cannot imagine.
I was doing some work earlierand today I have the day off.
It's Friday.
where I work, everyonelistening.
I have a four day work week, soI have Fridays off and I was
working this morning in mypajamas until like 1130 in the
morning.
I was,'cause I couldn't get up.
(16:34):
I went in there in the morningto do some stuff and I just
didn't get up again.
So I had my pajamas on and I wasjust smiling as I was working
and I was just so grateful thatI have this outlet that I didn't
even know, knew that I had thisoutlet two years ago.
Mama Judy (16:48):
Right.
And at that time of someone thatsaid something to you, you
would've said, oh, I'm notcreative.
Jill (16:56):
I did, I told you that many times, right?
You would say, oh, Jill triedthis, or I, you all listening, I
would go to Mama Judy's houseand you know, I was so excited
'cause she would sit down andput the journal stuff out and,
you know, teach me differentthings.
But even while she was doingthat and she was guiding me
through it and being a goodteacher and inspirational and.
You know, having me, be my owncreative self, I still, in the
(17:19):
back of my mind was like, well,if Mama Judy's not sitting here
holding my hand, like there's noway I can be creative like this
on my own.
So I figured this is just aone-time thing, you know?
And so I.
While I don't do the kinds ofthings you do specifically, I
found my other thing, but Iguess the point too is if, if
people don't know you have totry things or you just have to
(17:42):
listen to some sort of yearningin your soul and just try and,
and be okay with not creatingsomething perfect.
Mama Judy (17:49):
Oh yeah.
And we touched on perfectionism.
Back in one of our earlierepisodes.
Yes.
but I think you're a perfectexample, Jill, of what?
A lot of people, includingmyself, before I found my
creative voice or even realizedI had one, we just don't know
what that yearning feelingmeans.
(18:12):
My recommendation to anybodythat's out there that feels like
some kind of feeling is insideof them.
Just start trying differentthings.
You're gonna be like Jill, inthat you're gonna find something
that resonates with your heart.
(18:32):
I have over the years, just donedifferent things, and that's
okay too.
I'm just evolving, or I don'teven know if that's the right
word that I would use, but itdoesn't matter where you start.
That's that old adage.
A journey of a thousand milesbegins with one step.
(18:57):
So if you're out there and youhave some kind of yearning and
you look at other people'screativity and you wish you
could do that, you can.
You just have not found yourexpression.
And when we started this, sorry,I have to take a deep breath.
When we started this, we said,why do we do this?
(19:20):
Well, Even though we do it forfun, we do it to express
ourselves.
we do it to sell, we do it for avariety of reasons.
I think at the bottom of it,there's just this human d n a to
creatively express ourselves.
(19:43):
someone once asked me, this is.
Tied in, but a little off.
What's the difference between acraft and art?
And the big difference isimagination.
So I think in our creativity,all of us have that imagination
that is asking to be recognized,and we have to recognize it
(20:08):
before anybody else
Jill (20:10):
does.
So what do you mean that acraft.
Are you saying?
Are you saying that, when you doa craft, you're not using your
imagination?
And what would you define craftas if that's correct?
Mama Judy (20:21):
Yes, I am saying that a craft, you are not using your
imagination, and I'm gonna goback to the master of all things
to me, is Michelangelo.
Mm-hmm.
Michelangelo learned the craftof sculpting by being a
journeyman for years withanother sculptor.
(20:43):
He took it to the art form whenhe took those skills.
And used his imagination tocreate things like the David or
the Madonna.
when I was younger, I was givenpaint by number kids.
(21:04):
Mm-hmm.
That's.
The beginning of using yourimagination something that is
functional.
For example, a craft would besomething that has a functional
edge.
The big difference, and I'mprobably sounding a little vague
(21:24):
here.
But the big difference in myview is that when your own
imagination comes into play, youhave gone from a craft to an
art.
Mm-hmm.
Because I can make a kit and Ican give it to someone, and they
(21:45):
simply follow instructions andthey're not using their
imagination.
But when they take the skillsthey've learned from something
and then they do it their wayand they add their pieces and
their imagination.
Now they've transcended thoseskills and they have gone into
(22:07):
an art form.
Jill (22:09):
Yes.
And I think, does that makesense?
It does.
And I wanna say that speaking ofthe kits for people that, and I
think most of our listenersprobably are artistic already.
Yes.
For people.
And if, if the, our listeners,if you all know of somebody that
doesn't feel like they know howto do something, start them with
a kit.
There's a lot of beautiful,people on Instagram like that
(22:30):
sell their kits on Etsy and youknow, they send you the stuff
with the instructions.
It's, and that is somethingthat, well I would still do it
kid occasionally, but years agothat could have been just the
thing to go, okay, I get this,this is fun.
And be able to.
Feel empowered to createsomething, even though it's not
using my imagination, like yousaid, but it's still, you're
(22:51):
creating something, it's justYes.
Mama Judy (22:53):
yes.
So absolutely.
There are some wonderful kitsout there.
Artistic kits.
Mm-hmm.
Um, Alex, for example, inPortugal, does some beautiful
kits for making journals, andthere are all kinds of things
out there.
So yes, the most important thingout of all of this is if you
haven't taken the first step,take the step, however, you have
(23:17):
to take that first step.
Jill (23:19):
And since you mentioned Alex from Portugal, I will link
up to her Instagram handle sopeople can go there.
And I have another one, I thinkher name, name is, Corinne
Myrick or something like that,but she's another one that does
some stitching type, ones thatare very inspirational and fun.
I'll link up to those two, butthere's lots more than that.
And there's so many wonderfulcreative people in the community
that sell those things on Etsyand that type of thing.
Mama Judy (23:41):
Absolutely.
And you know, Jill, you and Ihave talked about our journeys
and how we got to our creativespots where we are now.
We have referenced an extremelycreative person, Rick Rubin.
I would be interested if anybodylistening or watching wanted to
(24:03):
give us comments on their ownpersonal journey.
Why do they make.
Why do they love creating?
see, some of it may be whatwe've talked about, but there
may be people out there that doit for things I haven't ever
thought about.
Right.
And I'd love to hear'em.
Jill (24:22):
Okay, great.
Well, when this episode airsthen what we'll do, mama Judy,
is you and I both will put apost and we'll pose that
question.
You'll put one on your account.
I'll put one on my Instagramaccount.
People, if they're watching iton YouTube, you can just comment
below.
that answer to that question.
You're right.
I would love to hear what peoplesay.
And I think that the fact, whenother people comment and share
(24:43):
their own experience, it couldbe a learning experience for
somebody else.
That might be, it might inspiresomeone else to action or to
think about, something in a newway.
So that's a great idea.
Mama Judy (24:53):
You know, you and I, again, repeating myself, we do
our own stories, but I likeother people's stories too.
I do too.
So I hope people will share someof their stories on any of our
episodes.
we love the feedback.
Yes.
Well, I guess that's notfeedback.
We love the conversations.
Jill (25:14):
Yes, we do.
We do.
Well, this was a funconversation, so, oh, I had one
more quote.
Let me just see if it's a goodone.
Still.
I'm gonna, we can close out withthis one.
It's a Rick Rubin quote again.
It says, we feel compelled toengage as if by some primal
instinct, the same force thatcalls turtles toward the sea
(25:36):
after hatching in the sand.
We follow this instinct to denyit is dispiriting as if we are
in violation of nature.
Ooh, he ha.
Mama Judy (25:48):
See what I mean?
He just, I know, takes the wordsand the thoughts.
That's perfect.
Jill (25:53):
Yeah.
And, and that's him.
That's his creativity.
I love that.
He, his art is this, he createhelping people create music as
well, but also is this the, theform of writing?
It's a beautiful piece of art.
Mama Judy (26:04):
Yes.
And both of us can highlyrecommend that book.
And I think that that's it.
I think you feel like if youhave this yearning that you talk
to, but you haven't been able toexpress it, it's almost.
It is a feeling of going againstthe natural order or against
(26:26):
nature.
I'm a living, I have to create,I have to go back up the river
like the salmon do.
I have to create, I'm okay withthat.
If I'm part of the naturalenvironment, I do things like
the turtles or the fish.
I'm okay with that.
I think that's kind of cool.
Jill (26:48):
I do too.
I think that's really cool.
Alright, mama Judy.
Well, this was fun.
I love you and your rose coloredglasses.
Thank you.
And we will talk to you again.
And thank you all for listening.
We appreciate you so much and wewill talk to you next week.
Mama Judy (27:04):
Yes, thank you my
Jill (27:07):
dear.
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