September 27, 2023 • 43 mins
In this episode, Mama Judy and I had the pleasure of chatting with Bee Sieburg and Molly Courcelle, mother-daughter duo who both happen to be successful professional artists in Asheville, NC.
Bee and Molly each share their own stories of how they came to be the artists they are today. From where they draw from for inspiration in their art, to what it’s like working in adjoining studios in the River Arts District, to an “origin” story that will give you full body goosebumps!
We hope you enjoy today’s chat!
Click here to find Bee on Instagram.
Bee’s website.
Click here to find Molly on Instagram.
Molly’s website.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jill (00:21):
Well, hi everyone.
Thank you for joining us againthis week.
And we have an excitingsurprise.
We have two artists that havejoined us today.
And like Mama Judy and I, motherdaughter duo, we have another
mother daughter duo.
We have got Molly Courcelle, whois my age.
and Bea is her mother.
Bea Seberg They're both artistsand we're going to hear their
(00:41):
stories today.
So welcome you all.
Molly (00:44):
Welcome.
Thanks for having us.
Jill (00:47):
Yes, and I wanted to give a little bit of background, but
really we wanted to ask you onbecause we just want to hear
your story.
You're both artists, ourlisteners, artistic people who
are hobbyists, some areprofessional, others are just,
you know, people that are justgetting started.
But we know that you areactually both professional
artists at this point, but wewant to hear your story.
(01:09):
And.
B and Molly both have artiststudios next to each other in
Asheville, North Carolina at theRiver Arts District, which is
this really cool area where allthese artists are down there.
and so we'll hear a little bitmore about that, but welcome to
the show.
And we really just wanted tostart with asking you a few
questions about your story.
So Mama Judy, why don't you getus started?
Mama Judy (01:30):
You know, we might as well chronologically go with B.
And Bea, you were the firstartist, you were the first one
to come along.
So, have you always known youwere an artist?
Did you discover it along theway?
Bee (01:48):
Well, it's interesting, it was very hard for me to say, I'm
an artist, for some reason.
But I, growing up, just likeMolly, I would draw and paint,
and I was encouraged.
Mama Judy (02:01):
I,
Molly (02:03):
I loved it.
And
Bee (02:04):
then when I went to college, I wanted to be a
veterinarian, but I didn't.
I went to a girl's school, whichdoesn't encourage veterinary,
and then I went to, toUniversity of North Carolina,
and I majored in art educationbecause I wanted to get a job
when I finished college.
And so, I taught art, I taughtart to children from
(02:30):
kindergartners through.
The 8th, 7th, 8th grade.
It was wonderful, and I lovedseeing the way they just,
there's no fear.
They just jump in, throwthemselves in their art.
It's so free and fresh, so Iloved it.
and then I kind of painted anddid things all along the way,
(02:51):
and then Molly and I had abusiness about, uh, in
Asheville, and we sold it.
Because she had just had a babyand I had had cancer, and we
wanted to paint.
Molly was an art, she'll tellyou this, an art major at Wake
(03:12):
Forest.
She always was great in art,loved it, always did well.
Anyhow, so we sold our businessand went right over here to
paint.
And so we just painted.
Because that was our desire, ourlove, what we wanted to do.
And, uh, I didn't know if I'dever sell a thing.
(03:34):
Who cares?
You know, I wanted to pay.
And so, lo and behold, we soldstuff.
Well, I did.
Well, I was shocked.
And it's a wonderful lifestyle.
It's a wonderful, creative,thing we can do.
It's just, it's fabulous.
We love it.
Mama Judy (03:53):
Cheryl, all along.
When you first started yourjourney, one of the very first
things that I picked up on yourstory is that when you were a
young girl and you said you drewall the time and you painted
that you were encouraged.
And by that I'm assuming I meantby your parents and all the
(04:13):
people around you.
And the reason I'm going backand touching on this is we have
an audience out there that oftentalk about how.
They're not encouraged.
And in fact,
Jill (04:26):
they're often, made
Mama Judy (04:28):
fun of.
So can you talk a little bitabout, as a young person, what
that encouragement meant foryou?
Yeah,
Bee (04:39):
yes.
it was wonderful.
It was like patting a dog'shead, you know.
I loved it.
And, for somebody to say, that'sgreat, B, you know, what you're
doing, we like what you'redoing.
In fact, I saved a painting,it's right over there, when I
was probably 10, I did apainting of my dog.
(05:01):
I still have it.
And, I feel the exact same waynow, painting, that I did when I
painted that dog.
It's a wonderful, free painting.
exciting feeling.
I loved it.
Now,
Mama Judy (05:18):
I'm going to assume also then that when you taught,
you were encouraging to all yourpupils, and that in turn passed
that freedom of creativity.
Onto them.
Wow.
I
Bee (05:34):
never thought about that, but maybe so.
You bet to me.
Molly (05:38):
And definitely to me,
Mama Judy (05:40):
I was just gonna say, and I'll bet it carried over
too, and it sounds like almostlike a perfect scenario in that.
You were a young, buddingartist, you were encouraged, you
had no doubt, it just sort ofcame automatically, and you were
(06:03):
able to, as a younger woman,make your living teaching
others, encouraging them, andnow you've come full practice.
Back to that child that youwere, because now that's what
you get to do all the time.
I want to do that.
(06:24):
Nailed it.
She nailed it.
You really did.
She has such a childlikeexuberance about life and she is
so encouraging to other people.
she does have some students Shehas to limit it a little bit
because she everybody would wantto take from her.
(06:44):
But, the students that she has,she's so encouraging.
It's infectious.
I mean, you want to be aroundher and hear her get excited
about things.
She has a very useful way of,Expressing her encouragement,
you know, I always
Bee (07:00):
tell him you cannot make a mistake in art.
Don't worry.
Do it.
Mama Judy (07:06):
Yes.
Mama Judy.
Everybody needs to hear that.
Jill (07:10):
Well, and B's just touching on things when on other
podcast episodes that we'veaired, we've talked about
letting your inner child outinstead of getting stifled down
into being a grownup and havingto, you know, do your regular
job or whatever.
And then we talked about doingmistakes, like B's just saying
these things that we all aspireto as creative people.
(07:31):
And I love to hear that at thisstage in your life, this season
in your life that you are ableto just.
Really be like you said backwhen you were 10 years old
painting that that's beautiful Iwanna come and
Mama Judy (07:43):
be a student.
Yes.
What Now?
I wanna come and be one of yourstudents.
Come on.
Bee (07:51):
When you come to Asheville, you come to my studio.
We paint together.
Oh,
Mama Judy (07:55):
I'll be there in a heartbeat.
I wish you would.
So, Molly, what an environmentyou were born into having your
own private.
Teacher.
Molly (08:09):
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
So one story that we love totell people.
So it's fun to have adjoiningstudios up here because we will
meet folks in our own studiosand then take them over and
introduce them to, you know, ourmom or daughter to each other.
(08:29):
but one story that comes up alot because people will often
say to me, Oh, that's yourmother.
Well, the apple doesn't fall farfrom the tree, or I guess, you
inherited her talent or I guess,you know, it's in your blood.
And so we get to say, well,actually I adopted and my birth
(08:51):
mother wanted me to be in aChristian home that had artists.
And so my mother and father werepicked because my mother is an
artist.
My father's mother was anartist.
And so with that combination andtheir faith, they were the ones
that were chosen out of all theapplicants for a baby that year.
(09:13):
so that's why I was placedthere.
So I feel like I have a doubleblessing.
Isn't that wonderful?
You, it is! And
Mama Judy (09:22):
congratulations also to your birth mother and knowing
the type of, having to have madea very difficult decision to
have the
Molly (09:33):
forethought to put you
Mama Judy (09:36):
in the perfect environment.
Molly (09:39):
I have chill vibes up and down.
Yes.
I know,
Jill (09:42):
so do I.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Mama Judy (09:45):
Okay.
Molly (09:49):
So here you are.
Jill (09:51):
I
Mama Judy (09:51):
mean, you're coming together as a family.
Obviously was not ahappenstance.
It was a chosen family.
And tell us what it felt like,Molly, when you were growing up
with this very loving and verysupportive artist.
(10:19):
So well, influence your work.
Molly (10:22):
Yes, well, it is true.
One of the first Well, when Ifirst started writing my artist
statement, I felt like I reallyneeded to include that my mother
is an artist because that trulyis a part of my artist
statement.
That is my story of being anartist is that my mother is an
artist.
(10:43):
And as I was growing up, mybirthday parties would be my
mother teaching all the littlegirls at the birthday party how
to make a clay animal or doingpaper mache.
Um, we would go and paint pleinair, you know?
And I mean, I'm so thankful, butI had a different growing up
(11:06):
because of the things I wasexposed to.
and she was so cute.
So she loved to say, um, causeshe would look, she knew to
teach this to kids.
The children would paint, youknow, a little tiny blue
scribble of blue sky at the top.
And so she would say, I want youto really look with your eyes
because does the sky end at thetop?
(11:29):
No, the sky goes all the waydown to the treetops.
I want you to make sure that ifyou're drawing blue sky, that
blue sky goes all the way down.
So she really taught me toreally look.
She would say things like, let'slook at the bark of that tree.
Is it Brown?
Is that all you see?
Is it more than that?
(11:51):
It might have other colors init.
What other colors do you see?
So she, you know, it was a greatplace for me to grow up.
And then she loved going to artmuseums too.
So we together.
Would go and just get veryexcited about seeing Matisse or
Picasso or whoever we went to golook at so
Mama Judy (12:08):
that is fantastic.
Jill (12:10):
I have a question.
So when you said when you werewriting your artist statement,
Molly, yes, for college.
I wasn't sure what that meant.
I just want to make sure.
Okay,
Molly (12:19):
so.
Often, well, for my website, oreven when I'm entering a
gallery, or if I have an artpiece in a show, they'll ask you
for an artist statement.
And it's not exactly just yourbio.
So your bio will just say thingsyou've done in the past, but
your artist statement is whatyou are, a statement about what
(12:43):
you are expressing in your art,who you are as an artist, the
themes that you It's just morethan that.
They can be all very different.
Bee (12:53):
One other thing.
Molly can write.
Not only is she an artist, Shecan write.
I'm telling you.
I cannot write.
I say the dog ran home.
Molly can say it beautifully.
And if I had an artist statementto make, I would say, Molly,
(13:13):
help me.
Help me with my artiststatement.
Help me write it.
So she, she helps me all thetime.
All the time.
Jill (13:20):
I love that.
Well, I wanted to ask you aquestion too, and part of this
goes back to Bea mentionedearlier that you had thought
about being a veterinarian.
Yes.
So what makes me think aboutthis, and I know because you
live in Asheville, where I live,and so I've seen your work, and
our listeners, I will Put bothof their websites so you can go
work.
you have very different stylesand ways of creating.
(13:43):
So I'm curious, B tell people alittle bit about what you like
to paint the best, and thenMolly, you too, and you're going
to hear a listeners, how verydifferent they are and kind of
how they come to their art.
Yes,
Bee (13:54):
we are different in our styles.
I, I think our.
And your insides come out whenyou paint, like when I teach,
I'll tell them, give them ademonstration.
And then I say, when you paint,you will not paint like me, you
will paint like you.
So when I paint, it's part ofme, you know, I just am free and
(14:18):
loose and love what I'm doing.
And I just, as I say, quote,this is not nice, upchuck on the
canvas.
That's not nice to say, but itjust comes out.
So that's.
It's my style of painting andMolly's is, is totally different
than mine.
And
Jill (14:38):
tell the listeners a little bit about what you paint,
because I know like, Oh, I think
Bee (14:42):
being, being a veterinarian won't be a lot of animals,
absolutely love animals, love,love donkeys like mama duty.
And I love cows.
When I was growing up, there wasa.
Dairy farm behind my house wherethere was a, pasture and if the
cows would lie down, I would golie down with them.
(15:03):
So I just had, I loved them.
I love, you know, always lovedanimals.
So I paint animals.
If I'm going riding down theroad and I see something like a
old broken down house with asofa on the front porch, that
calls my name.
I want to paint it.
And I, if I ever go, when I goout of town, if I go to Europe,
(15:25):
I take pictures everywhere I go.
So not only the broken downhouses, but the given that, you
know, that you see in Francejust things that I see that my
heart wants to paint.
And when I tell my students thatyou, don't, I have all these
photos of things that, where Igo and whatever, if you don't
(15:46):
think about that's too hard orthat's too easy, let your heart
tell you what you want to paint.
And, and then you do it and it'seasy.
It's fun.
So that's what I, I love topaint interiors.
People's houses.
Love that.
Love to paint, landscapes.
That kind of thing.
(16:07):
So, that's great.
Jill (16:08):
Well, and, and, and just to the listeners also, both Bea
and Molly are very, I don't knowif prolific is the right word,
but you'll, like, I could go tosomeone's house and you, you may
see one of their paintings,people collect their paintings,
they are very famous in ourarea, maybe all over the world.
I don't know.
We go to people's houses or upat the Grove Park Inn and, oh,
there's Molly's painting and I'mat a friend's house, is that one
(16:30):
of Bea Seberg's paintings?
And so, it's fun to see them outthere and the differences.
So I wanted to know about theveterinary and how that kind of
came in.
So that's fun.
Molly (16:41):
I have to tell you, I think her animals are my
favorites of all that she does.
She knows cows.
She knows donkeys.
She knows goats.
When she paints them, shecaptures something about those
animals.
I mean, you almost feel like youcan feel the fuzzy lips on those
cows.
I mean, I love it.
(17:02):
I
Bee (17:03):
like to make pigs.
Oh, pigs.
Oh, okay.
Yes.
Okay.
Mama Judy (17:09):
She captures the personalities it sounds like.
Molly (17:13):
Yes.
For sure.
Jill (17:16):
Molly, tell us a little bit about your style and how
you've come to that.
Molly (17:20):
Okay, well, I'm an abstract painter, so it's
different than what she does,and we even approach it in
completely different ways.
When I went to school for art,they really wanted us to kind of
search in our heart and discoverour voice and what was it that
we loved and, what style do welove and look at different
(17:41):
artists?
Um, all of that.
And so when I was in college,which was, you know, a while
ago, I loved organic form.
So I would do things that werebased on twigs or leaves or
landscapes, trees, that kind ofthing.
but when I, I left it and came,went into floral design and
(18:02):
other things.
And then I came back to paintingand.
I knew I wanted to still paintabstract paintings.
That's where my heart is.
I love abstract.
I feel like probably because ofwhat my mother taught me all
along the way is that you cannotmake a mistake in art.
I feel the most free withabstract because even though
(18:26):
there are design rules and thatsort of thing, I feel a freedom
because I'm not having to makeit look like something that
somebody else is looking at.
It's more about the feeling ofit.
I'm not as...
confined.
So I love abstract paintings.
So I knew I wanted to discovermy voice in a way that would be
unique, but still be abstract.
(18:47):
my favorite thing that I did incollege was the, figure drawing
classes where they would havethe nude models.
My favorite part of all of thatwas the one minute gesture
poses.
That was the warm up.
And so we did get a giant,newsprint with charcoal and they
would time the figure.
(19:10):
And they would pose and we wouldhave to capture something about
the figure in space, the weightof it, very quickly and we
weren't making it perfect indetail, but we were capturing
something about that.
And so what you ended up withwere these great marks that.
Really had a lot of life tothem.
They were energetic and, thatmark making I found really
(19:33):
exciting.
So when I came back to abstractand I had a background then in
floral design, I thought, whatif I took that gestural mark
making that I loved so much incollege and I applied it to
flowers and plants and leavesand that sort of thing.
And I made gesture drawings.
(19:53):
of flowers.
And so that was where I gotstarted and my style has evolved
over the years, but that'sreally the most purely Mali type
of artwork that I do would bethe floral inspired gestural
abstracts.
Yes.
Oh, wow.
Jill (20:12):
That's
Mama Judy (20:13):
a wonderful story.
Molly (20:15):
Okay.
Yes.
Jill (20:17):
I'd love to see the progression like you, a lot of
us, any of us, you know, we talkabout, you can start somewhere
and then move and change andthat kind of stuff.
And that's so interesting.
I'd love to see some of yourgestural type drawings from the
past.
I have lots of them.
Oh,
Molly (20:33):
I bet you do.
I have a house full of herpaintings.
I was going to say, you
Mama Judy (20:37):
have cows and pigs, she has gestural paintings.
Bee (20:43):
I'd rather have the beautiful abstract instead of
cows and pigs.
Mama Judy (20:50):
You know, Molly, that was a perfect description of
abstract.
I'm with you.
I love the freedom of abstract.
Most people don't understandabstract in the respect that our
brains want to identifysomething and put it in a
category.
(21:11):
And so abstract is often, Ithink the hardest thing.
To not only capture, but also toexplain to someone and you did
an excellent job.
In fact, I can see myselftomorrow morning.
I'm going to get up and startwith some gestural mark making.
Molly (21:34):
I love it.
Mama Judy (21:36):
And so if you each of you were to give.
Someone who isn't a professionalartist, but they just really
want to develop their owncreativity.
What advice, what suggestions,what anything would you pass on
(21:58):
to them?
This'll, this'll come easier forBea, probably, because she's
been doing it as a teacher.
Molly (22:07):
And she's such a natural encourager.
Mama Judy (22:10):
And
Bee (22:10):
just do it.
You know, if you want to paintor want to do art, do it.
Period.
Just do it.
And have fun with it.
There.
Go.
Mama Judy (22:22):
Go.
There
Molly (22:22):
you go.
And so, Molly, feel like we geta lot of people who walk
through.
So our studios are open to thepublic and we have people walk
through.
we're closed during thebeginning of the week and then
Fridays and Saturdays we're opento the public and we have lots
of people walk through and weoften get people who love to
paint, but that's not theirprofession.
(22:45):
It's a hobby.
Or they sure wish.
painting more, or whatever theirmedium.
and so they ask us, you know,questions.
And one thing that I like to sayis, if you really are serious
about wanting to pick it back upand having it be a part of your
routine, make sure yourmaterials are out and ready to
be grabbed and used, quickly,because I feel like, especially
(23:08):
with painting and maybe withOther mediums too.
I just happen to be a painter,but there's a lot of set up and
if it's not already ready foryou to grab and do, then once
you get inspired, you're goingto maybe lose it by setting it
all up because that's a longprocess.
So, yes,
Mama Judy (23:26):
yes.
And what a luxury to be able towalk into your studios.
Like you said, pick up thosematerials, turn around, walk
out, shut the door.
Not
Jill (23:43):
worrying about cleaning up,
Mama Judy (23:46):
putting it away.
Oh, I love that.
That's.
So great.
Jill (23:52):
I have a question.
Bea had mentioned that you takephotographs.
So a lot of the stuff that youmight be inspired.
You're inspired when you're outin the world and you take these
photographs.
And then you would use that topotentially like sit down and do
a painting.
Molly, what do you do whenyou're out?
Like what, if you're justdriving down the road or
whatever, or when you go out forplaces to get inspiration.
What, what might you share withour listeners that could inspire
(24:16):
them?
Molly (24:17):
Yeah, I'm sad that I haven't brought this up before
because it's a huge part of mywork and what resonates with
people.
But, when I, well, so my, thethings that I'm thinking about a
lot and the things that exciteme the most in life is learning
more about my faith.
So I've come from a Christianpoint of view.
(24:37):
I love God's word and I feellike it's so rich and beautiful
and.
Encouraging.
it feeds my soul in a way that alot of things don't.
But, when I read God's word, I,there's just to me, it's one of
the most beautiful things.
So when I'm, I guess, severalyears ago.
(24:59):
I said, all right, Lord, myfaith is important to me.
My art is important to me.
how can I have my art besomething that would bring you
glory?
at that point I actually waspainting little birds and nests
and, little lady slipper orchidsand things like that, because my
mother and I were showing alittle bit at the gardener's
(25:20):
cottage.
She shows there a lot now, but.
back then I was thinking aboutthat and then I thought I've got
to turn into things that aremore my, you know, the abstract
and more my own, my own voice.
But, I said, Lord, how would Iuse, you know, painting a little
bird to your glory?
And he just very sweetlywhispered to my heart, trust me,
(25:43):
I, I will show you the way.
And just little bit by littlebit, I started realizing, and
this was something I learned incollege too.
They really, my professors.
would want us to discoversomething about ourselves that
we were exploring within theartwork.
So whatever is the mostimportant thing with you is
going to come out in thatartwork, and perhaps you can
(26:05):
even solve some sort of aproblem or explore that subject
more by creating about it.
And so I thought, well, what ifmy artwork is more about These
spiritual themes and so what I'mtackling with or discovering
more about could be thesespiritual themes.
So I'll start out and have thembe gestural, floral, but The end
(26:33):
part is that I really am hopingto express something about the
beauty of God and the beauty ofGod's Word, some sort of
quality.
I don't feel that I am able todo that, but I know God's Word
has power, and so each of mypieces is associated with a
different Bible verse.
so I will paint something, andit will be a very intuitive type
(26:58):
of painting, not Meant to besomething or about something,
but at the end.
I will look at it and I'll say,I know what this is about.
This is about his, the strengththat, that God gives us.
And I'm going to name it afterIsaiah 41, or, you know, it's
just, wow, Lord, look how thishas turned out to be like,
(27:21):
you're holding us in your hands,you know, and then I can find.
All these different passages inthe Bible that talks about he's
holding us with his righteousright hand.
He has us held by his hand thatwe are in our signature is,
engraved in his hand.
So it allows me to learn moreabout God's word that I find so
beautiful and exciting.
(27:42):
and then I'm putting it outthere in the world.
Not only is it important to me,but I'm putting it out there and
people will come in and see it.
And they'll say, that speaks tome.
In this particular way, in a waythat was not even what I might
have intended, so it becomesabout more than just my control.
(28:04):
I love that too, where it's nota forced type of thing.
Like, I want you to learn this,or this is my message for you.
It's, it's a much more broadthing.
anyway, that's exciting to me.
That's really exciting.
We can
Jill (28:22):
tell, and that's wonderful.
That's,
Molly (28:25):
that excitement, that passion.
I tend to get so excited I don'teven breathe.
Jill (28:31):
Breathe, breathe,
Mama Judy (28:32):
Molly, breathe.
You know, I noticed both of you,although your styles are
different, Your stories are alittle bit different.
You both use the word, we listento our heart.
And I think that's so importantfor anybody in their creativity
(28:54):
because it's so easy to let ourhead get in the way.
Oh, yeah.
When our head gets in the way iswhen the criticism creeps in.
So, I love the fact that youboth, coming from your two
different perspectives, Listento your heart, to your
(29:16):
intuition, because that's whereit comes, that's where your
authentic self comes from.
And that's why your styles aredifferent.
Molly (29:29):
Right, we're different people.
We're going to have different,different styles.
And gosh, the River ArtsDistrict has 230 artists and you
walk to each one and they canall be beautiful and all be
completely different.
Yeah.
It's fascinating.
Amazing.
Isn't it?
It is wonderful.
You know,
Mama Judy (29:48):
I did, one more comment.
I did think as you weredescribing your abstract, I
thought, I'll bet when mom tookher for those walks and said,
Let's look at this pre bark allplayed into that because when
you then are looking atsomething like that, you're
(30:08):
looking at the abstract patternin nature.
So you had a grounding in thatabstract even way back then when
mom would take you on those,let's go look
Molly (30:22):
walks.
Absolutely.
Oh yeah.
She, she really encouragedSeeing and yes, I mean, having
your eyes really look and seeit's not a, intellectual
understanding of what you'relooking at.
It's what do my eyes actuallysee?
(30:42):
Does that make sense?
It is, it's,
Mama Judy (30:46):
yeah, emotional understanding is what she wasn't
sounds like, and B you, would beable to speak more to what your
intent was, but it sounds likegetting people to have an
emotional understanding ofsomething, not just again, like
Molly said.
(31:07):
Looking through our eyes and our
Jill (31:08):
brains.
Yes.
But also, part of it too, youhave to see, like, when you said
the example about the blue skiesnot just at the top, I'm so glad
you said that, because I thinkif I went and drew a picture
right now, I'd probably do thelittle, little blue strip, and
then there'd be white on thepage, and then the tree, you
know, and so, I think that's sointeresting that that's not how
(31:29):
it looks.
Right.
It is emotional, but in a way,it's also like it's the reality,
Molly (31:36):
right?
It's like, well, even moreliteral is even what she means.
So if I were to hold my hand uphere and I was going to draw,
you know, what's in my screenright now, my, my finger looks
really big now.
Intellectually.
I know that my finger is.
Is not bigger than my face, butlook at.
(31:57):
But if I were, look, I would seethat my finger.
Wow, that's a very big finger.
So if I were to draw itcorrectly, you know mm-hmm.
that's what you would do.
Yeah.
So that's how she explainedlike, we're not, it's not our
understanding, it's.
We're what we're really seeing,you know, that's really good.
Jill (32:20):
And if anyone's just listening to the podcast, go to
our YouTube page and I'mactually going to put the
timestamp on when you talk aboutthat, because when you just put
your finger up, that was such agreat illustration of what that
would be.
Yeah.
Mama Judy (32:32):
Loved
Jill (32:33):
it.
Perfect.
Well, I just love you both.
I love your art.
And it was, I just wanted to,Mama Judy, and I wanted to hear
your story.
I love the story about how youended up in each other's lives.
Yes.
Mama Judy (32:49):
It's a beautiful story.
Oh, it's just
Bee (32:51):
fabulous.
It's wonderful.
It's a God story, we say.
Molly (32:57):
And just for out of curiosity's sake, I have been
listening to your podcast, but Ihaven't gone all the way back to
the beginning.
And how long have you all beenMama Judy and Jill?
30 some years.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Really?
Yep.
I had a feeling it's been a longtime, so I feel like I can
(33:22):
sense.
how you all have influenced eachother.
Jill (33:26):
And I want to say something interesting too about
this because you, Molly and Beahave been in each other's lives
for Molly, all of Molly's life.
I've had Mama Judy, I've beenblessed to have her in my life
for 33, five years, somethinglike that.
She and my dad started datingwhen I was in college, but
that's when she came into mylife.
Mama Judy has been an artist,artistic her whole life It's
(33:49):
been very important part of herlife.
Whereas me, not as much, butseeing how you two have
influenced each other as motherand daughter, I feel like even
just more over the last year,finally sort of just really
tuned in.
I've always appreciated mamaJudy and her art and just who
she is, but I've really tunedinto deciding not to be afraid
(34:12):
to be creative myself.
And.
Allowing our relationship to,encourage me like you all have,
and it's amazing.
I just can't believe how luckywe all four are.
It's just
Molly (34:25):
amazing.
We really are.
And it's the same situation.
It's wonderful.
Have a close relationship whereyou can...
well, I'm so thankful that she'sright next to me.
but you all, it's just beautifulthat you can have this shared
podcast, these shared scripts.
it's beautiful.
I love it.
I love it.
I do too.
I do too.
(34:46):
Are so important.
Our families are just, I know,I'd like to have a group hug.
There you
Jill (34:52):
go.
Group hug.
Well, and I think it's alsoimportant to mention because
there are also a lot oflisteners to that don't have
that in their lives.
They don't have an encouragingmom figure and my birth mom who
died, you know, several yearsago, wasn't discouraging about
my art, but she just wasn't anartistic person herself like
mom.
(35:12):
So it's just, you know, I didn'thave that growing up so much,
but a lot of people are actuallydiscouraged by their parents in
some ways.
And so.
Yeah.
I also hope this podcast can bean inspiration for people like
that.
And a lot of people want to saythey want to adopt Mama Judy.
So we just say, Mama Judy'savailable, let her be your
encouragement.
(35:32):
And now
Molly (35:33):
I hear the same thing.
Oh yes.
I hear the same thing, how, howthey would love to have my
mother adopt, adopt them.
So yes.
Bee (35:43):
Oh,
Molly (35:43):
my God.
One more thing.
Oh, shoot.
It might have just left mybrain.
Um, okay.
I can't remember.
Jill (35:52):
Well, Mama Judy and I have our senior moments all the time,
so it might come to wrap up.
I'm gonna need everything thatto end us up.
And Molly, if it comes to you,tell us.
No,
Mama Judy (36:02):
this was wonderful.
listening to your stories werewonderful, but you also helped
us in our podcast, not justtelling your story, but whether
you realize it or not, you'vetouched on many of the things
that our previous podcastepisodes have touched on.
And I've been sitting herelistening, going, Oh, that's.
(36:23):
So cool.
She just mentioned that.
Oh, that's so great.
Molly (36:27):
There are some great themes in the life of an artist.
Mama Judy (36:30):
Yes, very true.
And they are their universallife things.
And I think when Jill and Istarted this, what we wanted to
do was talk about the universallife things that intersect with
the creative act and art,because art is really.
(36:54):
about life and interpreting lifein your own way.
So I hope that our listeners whohaven't got the benefit of the
YouTube yet.
We'll understand that all ofthese themes, the,
encouragement, the hesitation,the whatever you touched on,
(37:17):
they're all universal themes.
They don't just belong to thefour of us.
They belong to everybody.
And you know what, if there'ssomebody out there that needs
encouraging, we now can turn BeLoose
Molly (37:31):
on them.
Bee (37:32):
That's right.
Oh my gosh.
Molly (37:36):
Well, and that's so, I'm not meaning to, I know you all
were wrapping it up, so I'msorry to interject this, but
since you're talking about yourlisteners and how to encourage
them if they're looking for waysto get more feedback or whatever
it might be.
or even just positiveencouragement.
one thing that I think is reallyhelpful is to go to workshops
(38:00):
where there are other artistswho are learning.
we still go to workshops attimes.
because you never stop learning.
I feel like you really get tomeet.
An interesting group of peoplewho are also trying to learn
these skills or even just the Tostart being more in into the
(38:21):
practice of it.
you get to experience thatteacher and what they have to
teach you.
that's one thing.
there are just groups of artiststhat are dying to, not dying to
be, but there are groups ofartists that are really
interested in meeting otherartists who would love the
feedback and the encouragement.
One of the first.
(38:42):
closer groups that I wasinvolved with here in Asheville
was a critique group that one ofthe artists started because she
knew that she wanted feedback.
and those folks, a lot of themare still some of my best artist
friends.
And if I had questions that I'dstill go to them, and that was
probably 15 years ago at thispoint, and they're not a part of
my day to day life, but.
(39:03):
I sure do have a lot of respectfor them.
Mom, you came to some of thosecritiques, didn't you?
Yeah, can I say one more
Bee (39:08):
thing?
Yeah, sure.
About critique, if I'm, I'mpainting a, you know, she's
right next door.
I get to a certain point in apainting, I say, Molly, come
over here, critique thispainting.
And she'll say, Hmm, I love it.
She just did that for that one.
Thank goodness.
Most of the time she'll say,Well, if you do X, Y, and Z
(39:32):
maybe over to the right handcorner and do something over
here at the bottom.
So whatever she says, I trusther totally.
I go do.
In
Molly (39:42):
that right?
Well, well, I think you, youlearn people that will give good
like.
feedback that's helpful andpeople that will give feedback
that's not as helpful.
And so she has found that Ifeedback might be helpful for
her.
It's interesting because we canhear feed different feedback
from different artists.
I think you have to pick andchoose who you want to listen
(40:03):
to.
You do.
Mama Judy (40:06):
And, you know, trust is a big part of receiving
feedback, because if you don'ttrust that person, you can get
yourself wounded very easily.
And it's nice that you bothtrust each other in receiving
(40:26):
that feedback.
But your words are so true,Molly.
I mean, there are so many groupsout there of like minded people
that Even if you're starting andyou're a little hesitant, you
can Maybe make that your goal tojoin a group or whatever to
(40:47):
strengthen your ability toreceive that feedback.
Bee (40:52):
Well, we learn from everybody.
You learn from each other, notjust the teacher.
You learn from everybody.
Jill (40:59):
Molly, you just mentioned in person workshops, but even an
online workshop, So if you havean opportunity to do that as
well, it's not in person, but wegot on zoom a few times together
and would see each other'sfaces.
And that was good too.
But what were you going to say,Molly?
Molly (41:13):
Yes.
Oh, I was just going to mentionit sure helps with
accountability.
If I know that I've got a groupthat's going to be looking at my
artwork, by golly, I'll get itfinished faster, you know, and
it's a good kick in the pants.
I know for me, I really need,deadlines.
If somebody says, take all thetime in the world to finish this
painting, I might take a wholelot longer.
(41:34):
If they said, I'm coming back toAsheville to pick it up in
September, I'm going to befaster in getting it finished,
you know, so I need deadlines.
I love having accountabilitygroups.
So all of that is reallyhelpful.
Mama Judy (41:50):
There they go again, talking about something we've
talked about before, which washaving an accountability
Jill (41:56):
partner.
Yeah, I think it's helpful andit's encouraging to hear people
to professional artists.
Mama Judy.
Yes, I do.
So she said that you all are allat a different level than I am,
but you two are professionalartists.
So to hear that you people alsosaying that is very encouraging
to other people like, oh, yes,it's not just a walk in the park
when you get to the level whereyou are.
(42:17):
Well, anything else you want toadd, ladies?
Any words of wisdom or anythingyou would like to say before we
sign off?
Molly (42:25):
Thank you, this is so much fun! It was! It's a great
change for us! Thank you! Reallydifferent, so thank you so much!
Well, and I think
Jill (42:34):
what we might have to do is when Momma Judy comes for a
visit in Asheville, we'll comedown to your studio.
You promise?
Yes!
Molly (42:42):
Oh, I can't
Jill (42:43):
wait!
Mama Judy (42:44):
Sounds great.
Come
Bee (42:46):
soon.
Okay.
Molly (42:48):
We
Jill (42:48):
appreciate you and listeners.
Thank you for joining us today.
And I will for sure put links toboth of their websites.
I'm going to include somepictures as well, on the show
notes page and so that you canfind some of their art and we
just appreciate you ladiesspending some time with us
Molly (43:03):
today.
Oh, I love it very much.
So much.
Jill (43:08):
Okay.
Bye.
Molly (43:10):
Bye.
Bye.
Everyone.
Well, hi everyone.
Thank you for joining us againthis week.
And we have an excitingsurprise.
We have two artists that havejoined us today.
And like Mama Judy and I, motherdaughter duo, we have another
mother daughter duo.
We have got Molly Courcelle, whois my age.
and Bea is her mother.
Bea Seberg They're both artistsand we're going to hear their
(00:41):
stories today.
So welcome you all.
Molly (00:44):
Welcome.
Thanks for having us.
Jill (00:47):
Yes, and I wanted to give a little bit of background, but
really we wanted to ask you onbecause we just want to hear
your story.
You're both artists, ourlisteners, artistic people who
are hobbyists, some areprofessional, others are just,
you know, people that are justgetting started.
But we know that you areactually both professional
artists at this point, but wewant to hear your story.
(01:09):
And.
B and Molly both have artiststudios next to each other in
Asheville, North Carolina at theRiver Arts District, which is
this really cool area where allthese artists are down there.
and so we'll hear a little bitmore about that, but welcome to
the show.
And we really just wanted tostart with asking you a few
questions about your story.
So Mama Judy, why don't you getus started?
Mama Judy (01:30):
You know, we might as well chronologically go with B.
And Bea, you were the firstartist, you were the first one
to come along.
So, have you always known youwere an artist?
Did you discover it along theway?
Bee (01:48):
Well, it's interesting, it was very hard for me to say, I'm
an artist, for some reason.
But I, growing up, just likeMolly, I would draw and paint,
and I was encouraged.
Mama Judy (02:01):
I,
Molly (02:03):
I loved it.
And
Bee (02:04):
then when I went to college, I wanted to be a
veterinarian, but I didn't.
I went to a girl's school, whichdoesn't encourage veterinary,
and then I went to, toUniversity of North Carolina,
and I majored in art educationbecause I wanted to get a job
when I finished college.
And so, I taught art, I taughtart to children from
(02:30):
kindergartners through.
The 8th, 7th, 8th grade.
It was wonderful, and I lovedseeing the way they just,
there's no fear.
They just jump in, throwthemselves in their art.
It's so free and fresh, so Iloved it.
and then I kind of painted anddid things all along the way,
(02:51):
and then Molly and I had abusiness about, uh, in
Asheville, and we sold it.
Because she had just had a babyand I had had cancer, and we
wanted to paint.
Molly was an art, she'll tellyou this, an art major at Wake
(03:12):
Forest.
She always was great in art,loved it, always did well.
Anyhow, so we sold our businessand went right over here to
paint.
And so we just painted.
Because that was our desire, ourlove, what we wanted to do.
And, uh, I didn't know if I'dever sell a thing.
(03:34):
Who cares?
You know, I wanted to pay.
And so, lo and behold, we soldstuff.
Well, I did.
Well, I was shocked.
And it's a wonderful lifestyle.
It's a wonderful, creative,thing we can do.
It's just, it's fabulous.
We love it.
Mama Judy (03:53):
Cheryl, all along.
When you first started yourjourney, one of the very first
things that I picked up on yourstory is that when you were a
young girl and you said you drewall the time and you painted
that you were encouraged.
And by that I'm assuming I meantby your parents and all the
(04:13):
people around you.
And the reason I'm going backand touching on this is we have
an audience out there that oftentalk about how.
They're not encouraged.
And in fact,
Jill (04:26):
they're often, made
Mama Judy (04:28):
fun of.
So can you talk a little bitabout, as a young person, what
that encouragement meant foryou?
Yeah,
Bee (04:39):
yes.
it was wonderful.
It was like patting a dog'shead, you know.
I loved it.
And, for somebody to say, that'sgreat, B, you know, what you're
doing, we like what you'redoing.
In fact, I saved a painting,it's right over there, when I
was probably 10, I did apainting of my dog.
(05:01):
I still have it.
And, I feel the exact same waynow, painting, that I did when I
painted that dog.
It's a wonderful, free painting.
exciting feeling.
I loved it.
Now,
Mama Judy (05:18):
I'm going to assume also then that when you taught,
you were encouraging to all yourpupils, and that in turn passed
that freedom of creativity.
Onto them.
Wow.
I
Bee (05:34):
never thought about that, but maybe so.
You bet to me.
Molly (05:38):
And definitely to me,
Mama Judy (05:40):
I was just gonna say, and I'll bet it carried over
too, and it sounds like almostlike a perfect scenario in that.
You were a young, buddingartist, you were encouraged, you
had no doubt, it just sort ofcame automatically, and you were
(06:03):
able to, as a younger woman,make your living teaching
others, encouraging them, andnow you've come full practice.
Back to that child that youwere, because now that's what
you get to do all the time.
I want to do that.
(06:24):
Nailed it.
She nailed it.
You really did.
She has such a childlikeexuberance about life and she is
so encouraging to other people.
she does have some students Shehas to limit it a little bit
because she everybody would wantto take from her.
(06:44):
But, the students that she has,she's so encouraging.
It's infectious.
I mean, you want to be aroundher and hear her get excited
about things.
She has a very useful way of,Expressing her encouragement,
you know, I always
Bee (07:00):
tell him you cannot make a mistake in art.
Don't worry.
Do it.
Mama Judy (07:06):
Yes.
Mama Judy.
Everybody needs to hear that.
Jill (07:10):
Well, and B's just touching on things when on other
podcast episodes that we'veaired, we've talked about
letting your inner child outinstead of getting stifled down
into being a grownup and havingto, you know, do your regular
job or whatever.
And then we talked about doingmistakes, like B's just saying
these things that we all aspireto as creative people.
(07:31):
And I love to hear that at thisstage in your life, this season
in your life that you are ableto just.
Really be like you said backwhen you were 10 years old
painting that that's beautiful Iwanna come and
Mama Judy (07:43):
be a student.
Yes.
What Now?
I wanna come and be one of yourstudents.
Come on.
Bee (07:51):
When you come to Asheville, you come to my studio.
We paint together.
Oh,
Mama Judy (07:55):
I'll be there in a heartbeat.
I wish you would.
So, Molly, what an environmentyou were born into having your
own private.
Teacher.
Molly (08:09):
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
So one story that we love totell people.
So it's fun to have adjoiningstudios up here because we will
meet folks in our own studiosand then take them over and
introduce them to, you know, ourmom or daughter to each other.
(08:29):
but one story that comes up alot because people will often
say to me, Oh, that's yourmother.
Well, the apple doesn't fall farfrom the tree, or I guess, you
inherited her talent or I guess,you know, it's in your blood.
And so we get to say, well,actually I adopted and my birth
(08:51):
mother wanted me to be in aChristian home that had artists.
And so my mother and father werepicked because my mother is an
artist.
My father's mother was anartist.
And so with that combination andtheir faith, they were the ones
that were chosen out of all theapplicants for a baby that year.
(09:13):
so that's why I was placedthere.
So I feel like I have a doubleblessing.
Isn't that wonderful?
You, it is! And
Mama Judy (09:22):
congratulations also to your birth mother and knowing
the type of, having to have madea very difficult decision to
have the
Molly (09:33):
forethought to put you
Mama Judy (09:36):
in the perfect environment.
Molly (09:39):
I have chill vibes up and down.
Yes.
I know,
Jill (09:42):
so do I.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Mama Judy (09:45):
Okay.
Molly (09:49):
So here you are.
Jill (09:51):
I
Mama Judy (09:51):
mean, you're coming together as a family.
Obviously was not ahappenstance.
It was a chosen family.
And tell us what it felt like,Molly, when you were growing up
with this very loving and verysupportive artist.
(10:19):
So well, influence your work.
Molly (10:22):
Yes, well, it is true.
One of the first Well, when Ifirst started writing my artist
statement, I felt like I reallyneeded to include that my mother
is an artist because that trulyis a part of my artist
statement.
That is my story of being anartist is that my mother is an
artist.
(10:43):
And as I was growing up, mybirthday parties would be my
mother teaching all the littlegirls at the birthday party how
to make a clay animal or doingpaper mache.
Um, we would go and paint pleinair, you know?
And I mean, I'm so thankful, butI had a different growing up
(11:06):
because of the things I wasexposed to.
and she was so cute.
So she loved to say, um, causeshe would look, she knew to
teach this to kids.
The children would paint, youknow, a little tiny blue
scribble of blue sky at the top.
And so she would say, I want youto really look with your eyes
because does the sky end at thetop?
(11:29):
No, the sky goes all the waydown to the treetops.
I want you to make sure that ifyou're drawing blue sky, that
blue sky goes all the way down.
So she really taught me toreally look.
She would say things like, let'slook at the bark of that tree.
Is it Brown?
Is that all you see?
Is it more than that?
(11:51):
It might have other colors init.
What other colors do you see?
So she, you know, it was a greatplace for me to grow up.
And then she loved going to artmuseums too.
So we together.
Would go and just get veryexcited about seeing Matisse or
Picasso or whoever we went to golook at so
Mama Judy (12:08):
that is fantastic.
Jill (12:10):
I have a question.
So when you said when you werewriting your artist statement,
Molly, yes, for college.
I wasn't sure what that meant.
I just want to make sure.
Okay,
Molly (12:19):
so.
Often, well, for my website, oreven when I'm entering a
gallery, or if I have an artpiece in a show, they'll ask you
for an artist statement.
And it's not exactly just yourbio.
So your bio will just say thingsyou've done in the past, but
your artist statement is whatyou are, a statement about what
(12:43):
you are expressing in your art,who you are as an artist, the
themes that you It's just morethan that.
They can be all very different.
Bee (12:53):
One other thing.
Molly can write.
Not only is she an artist, Shecan write.
I'm telling you.
I cannot write.
I say the dog ran home.
Molly can say it beautifully.
And if I had an artist statementto make, I would say, Molly,
(13:13):
help me.
Help me with my artiststatement.
Help me write it.
So she, she helps me all thetime.
All the time.
Jill (13:20):
I love that.
Well, I wanted to ask you aquestion too, and part of this
goes back to Bea mentionedearlier that you had thought
about being a veterinarian.
Yes.
So what makes me think aboutthis, and I know because you
live in Asheville, where I live,and so I've seen your work, and
our listeners, I will Put bothof their websites so you can go
work.
you have very different stylesand ways of creating.
(13:43):
So I'm curious, B tell people alittle bit about what you like
to paint the best, and thenMolly, you too, and you're going
to hear a listeners, how verydifferent they are and kind of
how they come to their art.
Yes,
Bee (13:54):
we are different in our styles.
I, I think our.
And your insides come out whenyou paint, like when I teach,
I'll tell them, give them ademonstration.
And then I say, when you paint,you will not paint like me, you
will paint like you.
So when I paint, it's part ofme, you know, I just am free and
(14:18):
loose and love what I'm doing.
And I just, as I say, quote,this is not nice, upchuck on the
canvas.
That's not nice to say, but itjust comes out.
So that's.
It's my style of painting andMolly's is, is totally different
than mine.
And
Jill (14:38):
tell the listeners a little bit about what you paint,
because I know like, Oh, I think
Bee (14:42):
being, being a veterinarian won't be a lot of animals,
absolutely love animals, love,love donkeys like mama duty.
And I love cows.
When I was growing up, there wasa.
Dairy farm behind my house wherethere was a, pasture and if the
cows would lie down, I would golie down with them.
(15:03):
So I just had, I loved them.
I love, you know, always lovedanimals.
So I paint animals.
If I'm going riding down theroad and I see something like a
old broken down house with asofa on the front porch, that
calls my name.
I want to paint it.
And I, if I ever go, when I goout of town, if I go to Europe,
(15:25):
I take pictures everywhere I go.
So not only the broken downhouses, but the given that, you
know, that you see in Francejust things that I see that my
heart wants to paint.
And when I tell my students thatyou, don't, I have all these
photos of things that, where Igo and whatever, if you don't
(15:46):
think about that's too hard orthat's too easy, let your heart
tell you what you want to paint.
And, and then you do it and it'seasy.
It's fun.
So that's what I, I love topaint interiors.
People's houses.
Love that.
Love to paint, landscapes.
That kind of thing.
(16:07):
So, that's great.
Jill (16:08):
Well, and, and, and just to the listeners also, both Bea
and Molly are very, I don't knowif prolific is the right word,
but you'll, like, I could go tosomeone's house and you, you may
see one of their paintings,people collect their paintings,
they are very famous in ourarea, maybe all over the world.
I don't know.
We go to people's houses or upat the Grove Park Inn and, oh,
there's Molly's painting and I'mat a friend's house, is that one
(16:30):
of Bea Seberg's paintings?
And so, it's fun to see them outthere and the differences.
So I wanted to know about theveterinary and how that kind of
came in.
So that's fun.
Molly (16:41):
I have to tell you, I think her animals are my
favorites of all that she does.
She knows cows.
She knows donkeys.
She knows goats.
When she paints them, shecaptures something about those
animals.
I mean, you almost feel like youcan feel the fuzzy lips on those
cows.
I mean, I love it.
(17:02):
I
Bee (17:03):
like to make pigs.
Oh, pigs.
Oh, okay.
Yes.
Okay.
Mama Judy (17:09):
She captures the personalities it sounds like.
Molly (17:13):
Yes.
For sure.
Jill (17:16):
Molly, tell us a little bit about your style and how
you've come to that.
Molly (17:20):
Okay, well, I'm an abstract painter, so it's
different than what she does,and we even approach it in
completely different ways.
When I went to school for art,they really wanted us to kind of
search in our heart and discoverour voice and what was it that
we loved and, what style do welove and look at different
(17:41):
artists?
Um, all of that.
And so when I was in college,which was, you know, a while
ago, I loved organic form.
So I would do things that werebased on twigs or leaves or
landscapes, trees, that kind ofthing.
but when I, I left it and came,went into floral design and
(18:02):
other things.
And then I came back to paintingand.
I knew I wanted to still paintabstract paintings.
That's where my heart is.
I love abstract.
I feel like probably because ofwhat my mother taught me all
along the way is that you cannotmake a mistake in art.
I feel the most free withabstract because even though
(18:26):
there are design rules and thatsort of thing, I feel a freedom
because I'm not having to makeit look like something that
somebody else is looking at.
It's more about the feeling ofit.
I'm not as...
confined.
So I love abstract paintings.
So I knew I wanted to discovermy voice in a way that would be
unique, but still be abstract.
(18:47):
my favorite thing that I did incollege was the, figure drawing
classes where they would havethe nude models.
My favorite part of all of thatwas the one minute gesture
poses.
That was the warm up.
And so we did get a giant,newsprint with charcoal and they
would time the figure.
(19:10):
And they would pose and we wouldhave to capture something about
the figure in space, the weightof it, very quickly and we
weren't making it perfect indetail, but we were capturing
something about that.
And so what you ended up withwere these great marks that.
Really had a lot of life tothem.
They were energetic and, thatmark making I found really
(19:33):
exciting.
So when I came back to abstractand I had a background then in
floral design, I thought, whatif I took that gestural mark
making that I loved so much incollege and I applied it to
flowers and plants and leavesand that sort of thing.
And I made gesture drawings.
(19:53):
of flowers.
And so that was where I gotstarted and my style has evolved
over the years, but that'sreally the most purely Mali type
of artwork that I do would bethe floral inspired gestural
abstracts.
Yes.
Oh, wow.
Jill (20:12):
That's
Mama Judy (20:13):
a wonderful story.
Molly (20:15):
Okay.
Yes.
Jill (20:17):
I'd love to see the progression like you, a lot of
us, any of us, you know, we talkabout, you can start somewhere
and then move and change andthat kind of stuff.
And that's so interesting.
I'd love to see some of yourgestural type drawings from the
past.
I have lots of them.
Oh,
Molly (20:33):
I bet you do.
I have a house full of herpaintings.
I was going to say, you
Mama Judy (20:37):
have cows and pigs, she has gestural paintings.
Bee (20:43):
I'd rather have the beautiful abstract instead of
cows and pigs.
Mama Judy (20:50):
You know, Molly, that was a perfect description of
abstract.
I'm with you.
I love the freedom of abstract.
Most people don't understandabstract in the respect that our
brains want to identifysomething and put it in a
category.
(21:11):
And so abstract is often, Ithink the hardest thing.
To not only capture, but also toexplain to someone and you did
an excellent job.
In fact, I can see myselftomorrow morning.
I'm going to get up and startwith some gestural mark making.
Molly (21:34):
I love it.
Mama Judy (21:36):
And so if you each of you were to give.
Someone who isn't a professionalartist, but they just really
want to develop their owncreativity.
What advice, what suggestions,what anything would you pass on
(21:58):
to them?
This'll, this'll come easier forBea, probably, because she's
been doing it as a teacher.
Molly (22:07):
And she's such a natural encourager.
Mama Judy (22:10):
And
Bee (22:10):
just do it.
You know, if you want to paintor want to do art, do it.
Period.
Just do it.
And have fun with it.
There.
Go.
Mama Judy (22:22):
Go.
There
Molly (22:22):
you go.
And so, Molly, feel like we geta lot of people who walk
through.
So our studios are open to thepublic and we have people walk
through.
we're closed during thebeginning of the week and then
Fridays and Saturdays we're opento the public and we have lots
of people walk through and weoften get people who love to
paint, but that's not theirprofession.
(22:45):
It's a hobby.
Or they sure wish.
painting more, or whatever theirmedium.
and so they ask us, you know,questions.
And one thing that I like to sayis, if you really are serious
about wanting to pick it back upand having it be a part of your
routine, make sure yourmaterials are out and ready to
be grabbed and used, quickly,because I feel like, especially
(23:08):
with painting and maybe withOther mediums too.
I just happen to be a painter,but there's a lot of set up and
if it's not already ready foryou to grab and do, then once
you get inspired, you're goingto maybe lose it by setting it
all up because that's a longprocess.
So, yes,
Mama Judy (23:26):
yes.
And what a luxury to be able towalk into your studios.
Like you said, pick up thosematerials, turn around, walk
out, shut the door.
Not
Jill (23:43):
worrying about cleaning up,
Mama Judy (23:46):
putting it away.
Oh, I love that.
That's.
So great.
Jill (23:52):
I have a question.
Bea had mentioned that you takephotographs.
So a lot of the stuff that youmight be inspired.
You're inspired when you're outin the world and you take these
photographs.
And then you would use that topotentially like sit down and do
a painting.
Molly, what do you do whenyou're out?
Like what, if you're justdriving down the road or
whatever, or when you go out forplaces to get inspiration.
What, what might you share withour listeners that could inspire
(24:16):
them?
Molly (24:17):
Yeah, I'm sad that I haven't brought this up before
because it's a huge part of mywork and what resonates with
people.
But, when I, well, so my, thethings that I'm thinking about a
lot and the things that exciteme the most in life is learning
more about my faith.
So I've come from a Christianpoint of view.
(24:37):
I love God's word and I feellike it's so rich and beautiful
and.
Encouraging.
it feeds my soul in a way that alot of things don't.
But, when I read God's word, I,there's just to me, it's one of
the most beautiful things.
So when I'm, I guess, severalyears ago.
(24:59):
I said, all right, Lord, myfaith is important to me.
My art is important to me.
how can I have my art besomething that would bring you
glory?
at that point I actually waspainting little birds and nests
and, little lady slipper orchidsand things like that, because my
mother and I were showing alittle bit at the gardener's
(25:20):
cottage.
She shows there a lot now, but.
back then I was thinking aboutthat and then I thought I've got
to turn into things that aremore my, you know, the abstract
and more my own, my own voice.
But, I said, Lord, how would Iuse, you know, painting a little
bird to your glory?
And he just very sweetlywhispered to my heart, trust me,
(25:43):
I, I will show you the way.
And just little bit by littlebit, I started realizing, and
this was something I learned incollege too.
They really, my professors.
would want us to discoversomething about ourselves that
we were exploring within theartwork.
So whatever is the mostimportant thing with you is
going to come out in thatartwork, and perhaps you can
(26:05):
even solve some sort of aproblem or explore that subject
more by creating about it.
And so I thought, well, what ifmy artwork is more about These
spiritual themes and so what I'mtackling with or discovering
more about could be thesespiritual themes.
So I'll start out and have thembe gestural, floral, but The end
(26:33):
part is that I really am hopingto express something about the
beauty of God and the beauty ofGod's Word, some sort of
quality.
I don't feel that I am able todo that, but I know God's Word
has power, and so each of mypieces is associated with a
different Bible verse.
so I will paint something, andit will be a very intuitive type
(26:58):
of painting, not Meant to besomething or about something,
but at the end.
I will look at it and I'll say,I know what this is about.
This is about his, the strengththat, that God gives us.
And I'm going to name it afterIsaiah 41, or, you know, it's
just, wow, Lord, look how thishas turned out to be like,
(27:21):
you're holding us in your hands,you know, and then I can find.
All these different passages inthe Bible that talks about he's
holding us with his righteousright hand.
He has us held by his hand thatwe are in our signature is,
engraved in his hand.
So it allows me to learn moreabout God's word that I find so
beautiful and exciting.
(27:42):
and then I'm putting it outthere in the world.
Not only is it important to me,but I'm putting it out there and
people will come in and see it.
And they'll say, that speaks tome.
In this particular way, in a waythat was not even what I might
have intended, so it becomesabout more than just my control.
(28:04):
I love that too, where it's nota forced type of thing.
Like, I want you to learn this,or this is my message for you.
It's, it's a much more broadthing.
anyway, that's exciting to me.
That's really exciting.
We can
Jill (28:22):
tell, and that's wonderful.
That's,
Molly (28:25):
that excitement, that passion.
I tend to get so excited I don'teven breathe.
Jill (28:31):
Breathe, breathe,
Mama Judy (28:32):
Molly, breathe.
You know, I noticed both of you,although your styles are
different, Your stories are alittle bit different.
You both use the word, we listento our heart.
And I think that's so importantfor anybody in their creativity
(28:54):
because it's so easy to let ourhead get in the way.
Oh, yeah.
When our head gets in the way iswhen the criticism creeps in.
So, I love the fact that youboth, coming from your two
different perspectives, Listento your heart, to your
(29:16):
intuition, because that's whereit comes, that's where your
authentic self comes from.
And that's why your styles aredifferent.
Molly (29:29):
Right, we're different people.
We're going to have different,different styles.
And gosh, the River ArtsDistrict has 230 artists and you
walk to each one and they canall be beautiful and all be
completely different.
Yeah.
It's fascinating.
Amazing.
Isn't it?
It is wonderful.
You know,
Mama Judy (29:48):
I did, one more comment.
I did think as you weredescribing your abstract, I
thought, I'll bet when mom tookher for those walks and said,
Let's look at this pre bark allplayed into that because when
you then are looking atsomething like that, you're
(30:08):
looking at the abstract patternin nature.
So you had a grounding in thatabstract even way back then when
mom would take you on those,let's go look
Molly (30:22):
walks.
Absolutely.
Oh yeah.
She, she really encouragedSeeing and yes, I mean, having
your eyes really look and seeit's not a, intellectual
understanding of what you'relooking at.
It's what do my eyes actuallysee?
(30:42):
Does that make sense?
It is, it's,
Mama Judy (30:46):
yeah, emotional understanding is what she wasn't
sounds like, and B you, would beable to speak more to what your
intent was, but it sounds likegetting people to have an
emotional understanding ofsomething, not just again, like
Molly said.
(31:07):
Looking through our eyes and our
Jill (31:08):
brains.
Yes.
But also, part of it too, youhave to see, like, when you said
the example about the blue skiesnot just at the top, I'm so glad
you said that, because I thinkif I went and drew a picture
right now, I'd probably do thelittle, little blue strip, and
then there'd be white on thepage, and then the tree, you
know, and so, I think that's sointeresting that that's not how
(31:29):
it looks.
Right.
It is emotional, but in a way,it's also like it's the reality,
Molly (31:36):
right?
It's like, well, even moreliteral is even what she means.
So if I were to hold my hand uphere and I was going to draw,
you know, what's in my screenright now, my, my finger looks
really big now.
Intellectually.
I know that my finger is.
Is not bigger than my face, butlook at.
(31:57):
But if I were, look, I would seethat my finger.
Wow, that's a very big finger.
So if I were to draw itcorrectly, you know mm-hmm.
that's what you would do.
Yeah.
So that's how she explainedlike, we're not, it's not our
understanding, it's.
We're what we're really seeing,you know, that's really good.
Jill (32:20):
And if anyone's just listening to the podcast, go to
our YouTube page and I'mactually going to put the
timestamp on when you talk aboutthat, because when you just put
your finger up, that was such agreat illustration of what that
would be.
Yeah.
Mama Judy (32:32):
Loved
Jill (32:33):
it.
Perfect.
Well, I just love you both.
I love your art.
And it was, I just wanted to,Mama Judy, and I wanted to hear
your story.
I love the story about how youended up in each other's lives.
Yes.
Mama Judy (32:49):
It's a beautiful story.
Oh, it's just
Bee (32:51):
fabulous.
It's wonderful.
It's a God story, we say.
Molly (32:57):
And just for out of curiosity's sake, I have been
listening to your podcast, but Ihaven't gone all the way back to
the beginning.
And how long have you all beenMama Judy and Jill?
30 some years.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Really?
Yep.
I had a feeling it's been a longtime, so I feel like I can
(33:22):
sense.
how you all have influenced eachother.
Jill (33:26):
And I want to say something interesting too about
this because you, Molly and Beahave been in each other's lives
for Molly, all of Molly's life.
I've had Mama Judy, I've beenblessed to have her in my life
for 33, five years, somethinglike that.
She and my dad started datingwhen I was in college, but
that's when she came into mylife.
Mama Judy has been an artist,artistic her whole life It's
(33:49):
been very important part of herlife.
Whereas me, not as much, butseeing how you two have
influenced each other as motherand daughter, I feel like even
just more over the last year,finally sort of just really
tuned in.
I've always appreciated mamaJudy and her art and just who
she is, but I've really tunedinto deciding not to be afraid
(34:12):
to be creative myself.
And.
Allowing our relationship to,encourage me like you all have,
and it's amazing.
I just can't believe how luckywe all four are.
It's just
Molly (34:25):
amazing.
We really are.
And it's the same situation.
It's wonderful.
Have a close relationship whereyou can...
well, I'm so thankful that she'sright next to me.
but you all, it's just beautifulthat you can have this shared
podcast, these shared scripts.
it's beautiful.
I love it.
I love it.
I do too.
I do too.
(34:46):
Are so important.
Our families are just, I know,I'd like to have a group hug.
There you
Jill (34:52):
go.
Group hug.
Well, and I think it's alsoimportant to mention because
there are also a lot oflisteners to that don't have
that in their lives.
They don't have an encouragingmom figure and my birth mom who
died, you know, several yearsago, wasn't discouraging about
my art, but she just wasn't anartistic person herself like
mom.
(35:12):
So it's just, you know, I didn'thave that growing up so much,
but a lot of people are actuallydiscouraged by their parents in
some ways.
And so.
Yeah.
I also hope this podcast can bean inspiration for people like
that.
And a lot of people want to saythey want to adopt Mama Judy.
So we just say, Mama Judy'savailable, let her be your
encouragement.
(35:32):
And now
Molly (35:33):
I hear the same thing.
Oh yes.
I hear the same thing, how, howthey would love to have my
mother adopt, adopt them.
So yes.
Bee (35:43):
Oh,
Molly (35:43):
my God.
One more thing.
Oh, shoot.
It might have just left mybrain.
Um, okay.
I can't remember.
Jill (35:52):
Well, Mama Judy and I have our senior moments all the time,
so it might come to wrap up.
I'm gonna need everything thatto end us up.
And Molly, if it comes to you,tell us.
No,
Mama Judy (36:02):
this was wonderful.
listening to your stories werewonderful, but you also helped
us in our podcast, not justtelling your story, but whether
you realize it or not, you'vetouched on many of the things
that our previous podcastepisodes have touched on.
And I've been sitting herelistening, going, Oh, that's.
(36:23):
So cool.
She just mentioned that.
Oh, that's so great.
Molly (36:27):
There are some great themes in the life of an artist.
Mama Judy (36:30):
Yes, very true.
And they are their universallife things.
And I think when Jill and Istarted this, what we wanted to
do was talk about the universallife things that intersect with
the creative act and art,because art is really.
(36:54):
about life and interpreting lifein your own way.
So I hope that our listeners whohaven't got the benefit of the
YouTube yet.
We'll understand that all ofthese themes, the,
encouragement, the hesitation,the whatever you touched on,
(37:17):
they're all universal themes.
They don't just belong to thefour of us.
They belong to everybody.
And you know what, if there'ssomebody out there that needs
encouraging, we now can turn BeLoose
Molly (37:31):
on them.
Bee (37:32):
That's right.
Oh my gosh.
Molly (37:36):
Well, and that's so, I'm not meaning to, I know you all
were wrapping it up, so I'msorry to interject this, but
since you're talking about yourlisteners and how to encourage
them if they're looking for waysto get more feedback or whatever
it might be.
or even just positiveencouragement.
one thing that I think is reallyhelpful is to go to workshops
(38:00):
where there are other artistswho are learning.
we still go to workshops attimes.
because you never stop learning.
I feel like you really get tomeet.
An interesting group of peoplewho are also trying to learn
these skills or even just the Tostart being more in into the
(38:21):
practice of it.
you get to experience thatteacher and what they have to
teach you.
that's one thing.
there are just groups of artiststhat are dying to, not dying to
be, but there are groups ofartists that are really
interested in meeting otherartists who would love the
feedback and the encouragement.
One of the first.
(38:42):
closer groups that I wasinvolved with here in Asheville
was a critique group that one ofthe artists started because she
knew that she wanted feedback.
and those folks, a lot of themare still some of my best artist
friends.
And if I had questions that I'dstill go to them, and that was
probably 15 years ago at thispoint, and they're not a part of
my day to day life, but.
(39:03):
I sure do have a lot of respectfor them.
Mom, you came to some of thosecritiques, didn't you?
Yeah, can I say one more
Bee (39:08):
thing?
Yeah, sure.
About critique, if I'm, I'mpainting a, you know, she's
right next door.
I get to a certain point in apainting, I say, Molly, come
over here, critique thispainting.
And she'll say, Hmm, I love it.
She just did that for that one.
Thank goodness.
Most of the time she'll say,Well, if you do X, Y, and Z
(39:32):
maybe over to the right handcorner and do something over
here at the bottom.
So whatever she says, I trusther totally.
I go do.
In
Molly (39:42):
that right?
Well, well, I think you, youlearn people that will give good
like.
feedback that's helpful andpeople that will give feedback
that's not as helpful.
And so she has found that Ifeedback might be helpful for
her.
It's interesting because we canhear feed different feedback
from different artists.
I think you have to pick andchoose who you want to listen
(40:03):
to.
You do.
Mama Judy (40:06):
And, you know, trust is a big part of receiving
feedback, because if you don'ttrust that person, you can get
yourself wounded very easily.
And it's nice that you bothtrust each other in receiving
(40:26):
that feedback.
But your words are so true,Molly.
I mean, there are so many groupsout there of like minded people
that Even if you're starting andyou're a little hesitant, you
can Maybe make that your goal tojoin a group or whatever to
(40:47):
strengthen your ability toreceive that feedback.
Bee (40:52):
Well, we learn from everybody.
You learn from each other, notjust the teacher.
You learn from everybody.
Jill (40:59):
Molly, you just mentioned in person workshops, but even an
online workshop, So if you havean opportunity to do that as
well, it's not in person, but wegot on zoom a few times together
and would see each other'sfaces.
And that was good too.
But what were you going to say,Molly?
Molly (41:13):
Yes.
Oh, I was just going to mentionit sure helps with
accountability.
If I know that I've got a groupthat's going to be looking at my
artwork, by golly, I'll get itfinished faster, you know, and
it's a good kick in the pants.
I know for me, I really need,deadlines.
If somebody says, take all thetime in the world to finish this
painting, I might take a wholelot longer.
(41:34):
If they said, I'm coming back toAsheville to pick it up in
September, I'm going to befaster in getting it finished,
you know, so I need deadlines.
I love having accountabilitygroups.
So all of that is reallyhelpful.
Mama Judy (41:50):
There they go again, talking about something we've
talked about before, which washaving an accountability
Jill (41:56):
partner.
Yeah, I think it's helpful andit's encouraging to hear people
to professional artists.
Mama Judy.
Yes, I do.
So she said that you all are allat a different level than I am,
but you two are professionalartists.
So to hear that you people alsosaying that is very encouraging
to other people like, oh, yes,it's not just a walk in the park
when you get to the level whereyou are.
(42:17):
Well, anything else you want toadd, ladies?
Any words of wisdom or anythingyou would like to say before we
sign off?
Molly (42:25):
Thank you, this is so much fun! It was! It's a great
change for us! Thank you! Reallydifferent, so thank you so much!
Well, and I think
Jill (42:34):
what we might have to do is when Momma Judy comes for a
visit in Asheville, we'll comedown to your studio.
You promise?
Yes!
Molly (42:42):
Oh, I can't
Jill (42:43):
wait!
Mama Judy (42:44):
Sounds great.
Come
Bee (42:46):
soon.
Okay.
Molly (42:48):
We
Jill (42:48):
appreciate you and listeners.
Thank you for joining us today.
And I will for sure put links toboth of their websites.
I'm going to include somepictures as well, on the show
notes page and so that you canfind some of their art and we
just appreciate you ladiesspending some time with us
Molly (43:03):
today.
Oh, I love it very much.
So much.
Jill (43:08):
Okay.
Bye.
Molly (43:10):
Bye.
Bye.
Everyone.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.