October 4, 2023 • 34 mins
In this episode, we dive into an essential part of the artistic process – self-understanding. Mama Judy and I share our personal stories and lend insights on how traits like procrastination, laziness, a get-it-done mindset can greatly influence the creative process.
We also chat about how the artistic medium you choose might be influenced by your personal preferences. You'll learn how comfort with certain mediums can guide your choice and influence the work you create.
We also explore how asking the right questions can help you understand your artistic practices better. For a list of the questions Mama Judy suggested you ponder, click here.
We hope you enjoy!
We mentioned a few episodes during our chat today. Here are the links:
Watch episode 17 with artists Bee Sieburg and Molly Courcelle.
Listen here to episode 15 on the power of commitment to your art.
Listen to episode 12 here and episode 13 here where we talk about the power of accountability to be able to create art consistently.
If you'd prefer to watch this podcast, you can find us over on our YouTube page (The Mama Judy & Jill Podcast).
We'd LOVE to hear from you! Click here to send us your thoughts and ideas for a future episode.
Send us a direct message on Instagram:
>> Mama Judy on Instagram
>>Jill on Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jill (00:01):
Oh good, you made it.
We are so glad you're here.
Welcome to the Mama Judy andJill podcast, an
intergenerational chat aboutlife, art and the creative
process.
I'm your host, jill, andjoining me is my wonderful
co-host and bonus mom, mama Judy.
Let's get started.
Hi friends, thanks for joiningus again today.
(00:22):
We are so happy to have youhere, either listening or
watching on YouTube.
Hey, mama Judy.
Judy (00:29):
Hey Jill, how's it at your end of the world today?
It?
Jill (00:33):
is good.
It is good in Asheville, northCarolina.
We're kind of in the 60s here,which has been nice, crisp fall
weather, which I am loving.
How about you?
Oh?
Judy (00:43):
I'm still in Sedona for another week and it is still
high 80s here, because of course, this is a desert, but I can
hardly wait for fall.
I envy everybody that isstarting into fall, my favorite
time of the year.
Yes, it's wonderful.
Hey, jill, I don't want to getus too far off track, but I have
(01:04):
a question for you what kind ofan artist are you?
Jill (01:11):
I would say I'm a slow stitcher, maybe slash.
Mixed media artist.
Judy (01:19):
Okay, that's a good answer , but it didn't answer my
question.
Okay, what you told me when Iasked your question which, trust
me, I've done the same thing,because I think most people
answer with what kind of an artthey do, what medium Someone
asked me that I'll probably sayI'm a mixed media journal artist
(01:44):
.
Okay, but what I really meantby that question is do you
understand yourself enough toknow how you, as a person,
influence your art and how youcan use self-knowledge to
(02:04):
harness your artistic energies?
Jill (02:09):
Wow.
Well, first of all, even thoughwe're on this podcast and I
knew we were going to talksomething about this no, I don't
know how to do that.
Please teach me how to do that,because it sounds very
compelling.
My first thought when you saidthat was like oh, I'm a joyful
person, so joyful art, that kindof thing.
Judy (02:30):
But the way that you just put it feels very powerful, and
I think it is too Jill, and I'lltell you where the idea hit me.
And then, because I am a personthat does a lot of
self-introspection, it just keptgrowing.
But in our last episode withBea and Molly, there was
(02:52):
something we asked.
I think it was.
We asked them both, but it wasMolly's response that sparked in
me the idea that we, if we knowwho we are as artists, what
makes us happy, what draws us in, we can then translate that to
(03:14):
our art.
And, on the other hand, if wedon't know who we are, if we
have no self-understanding,we're just going to kind of
bumble along.
Now, a lot of people won't evenhave given this some thought,
but I challenge everybody outthere listening to stop and
(03:36):
think for a minute what kind ofan artist are you?
And of course, you and I aregoing to give examples, because
that's how, that's who we've got, you and me.
And so I'm going to talk abouta self-revelation in my own art.
I realized, for example, that Ilove procrastination.
(04:00):
When I have an art project orsomething.
I don't like sitting down andaccomplishing goals per day.
Now, I might do art every day,but I don't like having to meet
a benchmark, whether I've saidit or somebody else.
(04:20):
I've known this about myselffor a long time, even when I was
doing papers in school.
I'd be that person staying upto the last minute to get it
done, but I would get it doneand I would get it done very
well.
Procrastination, for me, is notsomething I feel guilty about,
(04:41):
but I need to understand that itis part of who I am and, yes,
it does influence some of myartistic energies and what I'm.
Jill (04:55):
Okay, let me just ask a quick question on that.
Sure Okay.
So when you're saying you liketo procrastinate, let's just say
because you do sell some ofyour journals and sold on Etsy
over the years.
So of course, if you knowsomeone is waiting on a journal,
they've said, oh, I want to buyone.
That is like you have acommission and so you have a
(05:16):
date or a deadline, right, soyou could still procrastinate as
long as it gets done.
But how does this work whenit's just your own journals, or
are you ultimately creating mostof your stuff to eventually put
on Etsy?
You?
Judy (05:30):
know, as it turns out.
Up to this point, most of thethings have gone on Etsy because
part of my process is sharingthem.
But the thing that I'verealized on procrastination for
me is that let's say that I runacross an artist that I just
(05:51):
love their style and I wouldlike to develop techniques like
that person's style, and Idownload and buy all the classes
they have available Because Iprocrastinate.
It might be two years before Iget around to taking those
(06:13):
classes.
Honest to God, I have some outthere that I bought over two
years ago, and as I was sittingthere looking at them and
thinking about procrastination,I realized allowing myself to
procrastinate sometimes holds meback.
I have not learned those newtechniques.
(06:35):
I have not practiced what Iwant to.
It's still sitting out there inprocrastination.
I'll get to it someday.
So procrastination can besomething that will hold us back
.
But if I didn't think about thatand know that about myself, I
(06:58):
would not then turn to myselfand say, as I did this last week
okay, kiddo, you've got a lotof really good material out
there.
Did you buy it just to leave itor are you actually going to
use it?
And I sat down and I didn't putgoals on it, but I made a
(07:20):
commitment to myself, which wetalked about in another one.
So this is a commitment to me.
I have these classes and I'mgoing to spend X number of time
every week on these classes.
But if I hadn't thought aboutit, they'd probably still be
(07:42):
sitting out there and I wouldthink about them and I'd just go
.
Oh well, one of these days I'llget around to them.
That's just one tiny example ofhow self understanding can
either hinder or support ourartistic energies.
I was not supporting myartistic energies.
Jill (08:06):
Okay, well, let me ask you another question.
I think anyone can listening,could plug in whatever they need
to, for this example, you knowif they're not a creator.
But my question for you on thatfollow up is you said then you
decided to make a commitment toyourself.
Do you know yourself as anartist that once you make a
commitment to yourself that youwill hold yourself to it?
Judy (08:28):
Yes, because I've thought about this enough and I
understand that for me as anartist, there are times when my
procrastination is no big deal.
There's nothing that is keepingme from.
But what I realized with thiswas I really am keeping myself
(08:53):
from growing If I don't getthose classes out and if I don't
use them.
I'm not going to grow throughthe techniques that I will learn
in those classes, and I thinkenough of myself that I want to
now invest time in doing that.
Jill (09:15):
Okay so, let's say, someone was listening, though,
and they said, okay, great, I'malso a procrastinator.
However, even if I told myselfI'm gonna make a commitment, I'm
gonna put in two hours a weekto watch the videos and stuff or
do the exercises, but I justknow myself, I can't hold a
commitment to myself.
I'll commit to anybody else,like we talked on that other
(09:36):
episode, but would that meanthat that type of person should?
Then what do they do?
Commission?
Find somebody?
To buy something from them.
Judy (09:45):
They get an accountability partner.
Okay, yeah, right, you knowwe've talked about
accountability partners, andmaybe accountability partner
isn't quite the right word, butit's someone that you trust,
that you can.
They will make sure that youare going to stay on what you
(10:05):
say you're going to do.
So I would do that and, believeme, there was one time in my
life in my personal selfunderstanding that I would have
needed that person.
But now I've done enoughintrospection to know I am my
own roadblock.
(10:26):
And it's not even about moneyand investing in the class.
Let me ask you a questionthat's probably the opposite
answer.
You just got done taking theclass.
Did you start that class rightafter you bought it?
Jill (10:46):
Yes, and at once, Because I was so excited to learn Okay,
I love learning new things.
I saw something that was beingcreated by the instructor that I
just felt like it would bringme so much joy to create and
some healing, and so I doveright in and, as videos were
(11:10):
released, I was watching thoseimmediately.
Judy (11:14):
So why do you suppose you are more of a dive in person
than I am?
Jill (11:22):
Well, I think one reason could be that you are a much
more seasoned artist.
You have a lot of experience inyour life.
I don't, so there is a lot morefor me to learn.
I mean that maybe that's trueor not, but I feel like I'm just
doing my little stitching stuff, and so I feel like the whole
world is open to me, and so I'mat this place where I want to
(11:44):
learn more, and I feel like evenfor the next five years, I
could feel that way.
Judy (11:49):
Okay, so am I going to be correct in assessing that when
you were in college, you wouldnot have been up late the night
before the paper was due with me?
Jill (12:00):
No, except for calculus, because I couldn't get it in my
head.
Judy (12:05):
But, and you know, each personality is different.
You and I are just two examples, and human beings are very
complex, so I'm not trying toput us into categories, but
understanding yourcharacteristics goes such a long
way in not just in life, but inhandling all kinds of things.
(12:27):
And before we go on to anotherquestion, I want to read a quote
that I just loved by the artistHenri Matisse.
We need to view ourselves withthe same curiosity and openness
with which we study a tree, andwhat I get from that is to
(12:50):
Matisse.
It was just as important to knowyourself as it was any subject
that you're going to paint ordraw or stitch, and there are
ways to, if you've never reallythought about yourself, given an
(13:11):
honest assessment because,remember, this is between you
and you.
You don't have to share this ifyou find something you're
uncomfortable with.
I mean, I was for a long timeuncomfortable with
procrastinating, but I realizedhow it fit into my personality,
how it held me back, how I canuse it in the future.
(13:33):
So you can ask yourselves aseries of questions as you go
around throughout the day andyou actually use the word.
That could be one of thequestions what brings you joy?
Jill (13:52):
Feeling the fabric in my hands, creating something pretty
, just spending time in ameditative process for me.
Judy (14:04):
Well, two thoughts With you.
The first thing you said wasfeeling the fabric.
So right there, that tells methat you chose the stitching in
part because you love fabrics.
I probably chose mixed mediabecause I like the Jack Rabbit
(14:26):
approach.
I don't have to try to makethings look representational.
They can be abstract.
You can use your hands, you canget there.
It's very important for me andI've learned this about myself
through examining differentthings.
I've tried I have to use theseguides, for example.
Jill (14:50):
I've learned that over the listener podcast.
Oh, I'm rubbing your fingers.
In case you're not on YouTube,use your fingers.
Judy (14:59):
I have to use my fingers and my hands.
If I have learned over time byjust observing how I feel when I
pick up a particular medium,what resonates with me, not just
the visual.
But if I hold a paintbrush, forexample, you would think that
(15:22):
that is using your hands, butholding a paintbrush to me is
very foreign.
I've had to learn to becomfortable with holding and I'm
putting out my fingers abouteight, nine inches long a long
paintbrush that is between meand the canvas or the paper.
(15:46):
So it's very important.
My understanding of myself,knowing that I need to be able
to get right to my materialswith my fingers, has helped me
well.
I don't know if it's helping,it's guided me to the mediums
(16:07):
that I like to use the best.
When I'm sitting at a tablewith spray bottles or paints and
glues, my hands are in themiddle of them.
When I am practicing newpainting techniques, I'm a foot,
foot and a half, two feet awayfrom them.
(16:27):
That's not the same feel to me.
So just understanding that typeof thing has helped delineate
down where I will place myartistic energies, wow.
Jill (16:43):
And that made me think of one of the things I think I like
about the stitching is that Ican sit in a cozy chair and
stitch.
I really like to feelcomfortable and cozy and be able
to do it in multiple places, someaning you could be upstairs
or in your living room orsitting in another chair.
But that's important to me, Irealize just feeling cozy while
(17:06):
I'm doing it.
Judy (17:08):
That then will draw you to an artistic medium that allows
you to do that.
I'm guessing, just like meholding the paintbrush, if you
were standing in front of aneasel with a paintbrush, even if
you thought you wanted to paint, it would not feel the way you
(17:30):
wanted to feel.
So in our two examples, whatpeople can take away from is
that the artistic medium that wechoose to focus our energies on
is far more than just thematerials themselves.
(17:50):
It's part of who we are, whatwe want out of the experience,
and any question that you canask yourself as you go through
the day will help you with thatunderstanding.
And if you come acrosssomething that's like an
(18:10):
epiphany and you can go oh God,that's right, you know, I hadn't
thought about that then you cansee how maybe that particular
thing relates to your artpractice.
And I'll ask another prettyglaring question on it.
When you come up againstsomething else and these
(18:32):
questions I send out to theentire audience also, but when
you come up against somethingnew or something you don't know
how to do the way you want to Ialmost used the bad word,
correctly, right that, the wayyou want to what do you do at
(18:55):
that point?
Jill (18:57):
I usually go to YouTube or look in a book.
Judy (19:00):
Okay.
So you go find the answer yes,okay.
And then there's another selfrevelation that I've realized
over time I quit.
Jill (19:12):
Oh, are you sure, mama Judy?
I would think that you wouldfirst try different things and
just be creative, like I don'tsee you going to YouTube
necessarily, but it seems likeyou would try things first, is
that not true?
Judy (19:28):
Not necessarily.
Okay, remember when I said youlearn these things about
yourself.
You don't think about you go.
Oh my well, that's interesting.
I am probably and these again,these are my labels.
These are not anything you goto a book and find, but I would
call myself a lazy artist up tothis point, and what I mean by
(19:52):
that is I have always gravitatedto what is easy for me and I've
been successful enough in thosethat I have never really put
out the effort to get beyond theuncomfortable feeling, the
roadblock, whatever you want tocall it.
(20:13):
But yet I never thought aboutthat.
I just did what I thought Iliked to do, which obviously is
part of it.
But trust me when I say a bigpart of it is I don't want to
put in the hard work.
Now, if you just found that outabout yourself let's say that
(20:38):
that was your self revelationwhat would you do with that in
relationship to your art?
Jill (20:47):
Well, when you said that while I'll go out and look if
it's a stitch, that I go lookand there are too many pieces,
I'm getting confused, I'm like,forget it, I don't care.
I don't really care to do thatone anymore and I'll move on to
an easier one.
So I think I am lazy in someways as well, but I'm okay with
that.
Like I'll go because I wantthis to be easy for me.
I want to grow, but I want thisto be easy for me.
(21:10):
I don't want to be stressed outgritting my teeth as I'm doing
my art.
Judy (21:16):
People as they walk by.
That's a very good point.
And any of this that we learnabout ourselves.
You then are the master of yourlife, in that you then can
choose how to use it.
What I have chosen, realizingover time all of these things
(21:38):
about myself, I sat down, I hadthis you know me myself and I
talk where I looked at itseriously and said what is it
you really want to do with yourart and do you really truly want
to grow in this direction?
And so what I've done just likewith the procrastination and
(22:04):
getting out the classes is Ihave made a commitment to myself
.
I won't turn and run at thefirst hint of difficulty and I'm
going to give myself a goldstar you know, like you did
gotten the first grade when youdid something good, because all
this week I have been followinga person that does little short
(22:28):
videos on their technique andboy, I have kept after it, even
when I just really didn't wantto be there.
Because let me go to a humanaspect there's only two reasons
that human beings make anydecision we either move towards
(22:50):
pleasure or we move away frompain.
Now, in my art practice, thatpain is the uncomfortable
feeling that I feel when I can'tachieve what that person that's
been doing it 40 years.
So I want to move away fromthat pain.
(23:15):
It's a psychological, emotionalturmoil within when you get to
that situation and I want tomove beyond it.
Two choices work in the roadquit or continue on.
Normally I would quit.
Now I am continuing on and thisdoes not mean that a year from
(23:37):
now anybody will look at my workand my journals if I'm still
doing them and say, oh look, Isee where she picked up some new
techniques.
It is more about me and thedevelopment of my entire
creative energies, or entirecreative energies, I think.
(24:06):
I got that out right Right now Ikind of put myself in a box and
I'm very happy and verycomfortable.
But if we look at something, ifwe look at a person and say man
and I'm going to againreference Bea and Molly in the
background of our last YouTubesession, you could see their
(24:28):
beautiful different paintingstyles and I know you were going
to attach their information sopeople can see their work.
And I looked at that andthought I would like to be able
to do something more in linewith that.
Jill (24:46):
The Molly one abstract yes , because I love abstract Right.
And, by the way, listeners,that is episode 17 that you can
check out.
So we interviewed two artistsnamed Bea and Molly, mother and
daughter duo.
So check that out if youhaven't heard it yet.
Judy (25:02):
Yes, and check out their work too, yes.
So again, self-assessment,self-understanding.
The more you understand anysubject, the better off you are,
you're better informed.
Well, like Matisse said, weneed to study ourselves as much
as we do that tree we're goingto go out and paint because it
(25:25):
can guide us, strengthen us,help us overcome areas, even
overcoming fears.
If I know what's blocking meand it is a fear and I am aware
of it and honest self-awareness,then I can move beyond it.
Jill (25:46):
Right, okay, so is there another question or two that
might be helpful for otherpeople, including us, to think
about, as they're having theseself-reflective times to
understand this more?
Can you think of another goodquestion that might pull
something out from us?
If people don't?
Judy (26:03):
mind that I'm going to look down because I'm reading
off my iPhone.
Here are some that I cameacross and, as I've been
thinking about myself, I'vewritten down.
What do I like about creating?
What stresses me about mycreative practice?
Why do I really want to create?
(26:27):
That's a question that camefrom Molly.
When we asked them why theycreated, Molly gave just a
phenomenal reason on why she wascompelled to create.
I think we all will use thephrase, similar phrase like oh,
I just have a need to.
I hear that quite often and Iunderstand that.
(26:50):
But beyond that, what is it youreally like about creating?
Why do you do it?
What did I love about thecreating process as a child?
Yeah, Now do I still have thatin my practice?
Jill (27:11):
Ooh, that's a good one too , because just on our last
podcast with Bea and Molly,another one, bea, who's the
mother of the mother daughterduo artist, bea, said that she
remembers she has a painting inher studio and she remembers
painting that at age 10.
And she said I remember what.
I think.
She said something like.
I remember what it felt likeand how happy I felt creating
(27:32):
that.
She said I feel the exact samething today and she is in her
late 70s.
Judy (27:37):
Yes, Bea still has the childlike enthusiasm for her
painting that she did when shewas 10 years old.
Yes, and if you ask yourselfthat and the answer is no, I
don't, then if you really wantto, you can bring that element
(28:01):
that you remember backdeliberately back into your
practice.
So, what brings me deep joy?
Do I like structure or am Imore unstructured?
And structure can be anythingbetween how we approach our
(28:21):
workspace.
What kinds of art do we do?
Is it more structured?
Is it abstract, which is alittle more unstructured?
And here's mine that we talkedabout already.
Do I procrastinate or do I needto reach a daily goal?
Do I give up easily or do Istick with something that is
(28:45):
uncomfortable?
Are there any fears that keepme from creating something I
want?
And my last one, that I reallylike, that I I'd like to you
know, tell you that I'm perfectand I do this all the time, but
I have to keep going back to it.
(29:05):
Do I have a mindful practice?
Do I sit down and am I presentat that time, in the moment,
with a mindful approach to whatI'm doing?
Do I truly feel the emotions ofwhat I'm going through when I
(29:26):
create?
Do I bring in extra sensorythings to the experience I think
a mindful practice is abeautiful practice.
Now, I don't want to confusepeople when someone says I just
kind of sit down, like you usethe word meditate, that's also
(29:49):
mindful because you're focusingon what's in front of you.
So all of that list ofquestions, and if our listeners
want more, there are more that Ican provide, but I think you
can come up with your own.
And the most important thing isto just take the time to figure
(30:14):
out who you are as an artist,as a human being, I should say
who you are as a human being,and how then that knowledge
relates to your art practice andwork with both your strengths.
What are your creativestrengths?
What are your creativeweaknesses?
Jill (30:37):
Well, I think this exercise is going to be very
important to a lot of people.
I am actually going to go backand re-listen to this so that I
can think about this, because Ihave not been very introspective
about this.
I'm really interested in doingthat as well and to our
listeners.
I will also some of the thingsthat Mama Judy read out and
listed out.
I'm going to go ahead and justput those in the show notes and
(30:59):
on the different places whereyou'll see this on YouTube and
stuff, so that you can obviouslylisten.
But if you want to just sitdown and really think about
those for yourselves, you canhave that and I'll just have
them written out there like that.
Judy (31:10):
Perfect.
And just one last thing, justkind of summarizing for
everybody out there.
Like you said, it's the fullspectrum.
Some people have done a lot ofintrospection, some not.
It's important to understandyour art and you are your art.
(31:33):
That's where it comes from.
It comes from within you, andthe more you understand about
both, the better.
Whatever that word means.
Better, better can be.
You know, maybe you that stitchthat you said you didn't want
to do because it was toocomplicated, maybe you'll go
(31:54):
back at some point and try itout, master, that's a step in
the improvement.
So it all leads into helping ushave a better artistic practice
.
Jill (32:09):
Well, this has just been.
I feel like a masterclass today, mama Judy.
Judy (32:15):
Sometimes I can't shut my brain off.
Jill (32:19):
Thank you.
This really has been helpful.
So we hope, obviously, thatthis will be helpful to you as
the listeners, and we'd love tohear from you.
As we always say, I would alsoask that, if you like this
podcast or the YouTube page, ifyou would share it with a friend
or two to help us to continueto spread the awareness of our
podcast, and we love having newlisteners.
(32:40):
So we would really appreciatethat, and yeah, yes, we would.
Judy (32:45):
And, Jill, I just want to reaffirm what you said.
I go out to YouTube and some ofthe comments I've received on
Instagram and every one of themis just so important to us.
You know, we're kind of like wehave mentioned before.
We're in this little vacuum ofyou and I out there just having
(33:06):
a conversation on things thatare important to us and we hope
they're important to others aswell.
So when we get that feedback,it all, be honest, it's kind of
like a whole good.
It's a validation, friends, andwe all need that occasionally.
Jill (33:25):
Yes, and Mama Judy, by the way, being caught in a vacuum
with anyone.
I would have no one else butshe to be stuck in a vacuum with
.
Judy (33:34):
We can be stuck on that desert island together.
Just bring your art supplies.
Jill (33:39):
Yes, we could use coconuts and like dye dying, that's
right.
Judy (33:45):
Tom Hanks and his ball that he made would have nothing
on us.
Jill (33:49):
Yes, All right, everyone, until next week.
We look forward to being withyou again next week and thanks
again for tuning in.
Yes, all right, mama Judy, I'llsee you soon, love you.
Love you too, bye.
Oh good, you made it.
We are so glad you're here.
Welcome to the Mama Judy andJill podcast, an
intergenerational chat aboutlife, art and the creative
process.
I'm your host, jill, andjoining me is my wonderful
co-host and bonus mom, mama Judy.
Let's get started.
Hi friends, thanks for joiningus again today.
(00:22):
We are so happy to have youhere, either listening or
watching on YouTube.
Hey, mama Judy.
Judy (00:29):
Hey Jill, how's it at your end of the world today?
It?
Jill (00:33):
is good.
It is good in Asheville, northCarolina.
We're kind of in the 60s here,which has been nice, crisp fall
weather, which I am loving.
How about you?
Oh?
Judy (00:43):
I'm still in Sedona for another week and it is still
high 80s here, because of course, this is a desert, but I can
hardly wait for fall.
I envy everybody that isstarting into fall, my favorite
time of the year.
Yes, it's wonderful.
Hey, jill, I don't want to getus too far off track, but I have
(01:04):
a question for you what kind ofan artist are you?
Jill (01:11):
I would say I'm a slow stitcher, maybe slash.
Mixed media artist.
Judy (01:19):
Okay, that's a good answer , but it didn't answer my
question.
Okay, what you told me when Iasked your question which, trust
me, I've done the same thing,because I think most people
answer with what kind of an artthey do, what medium Someone
asked me that I'll probably sayI'm a mixed media journal artist
(01:44):
.
Okay, but what I really meantby that question is do you
understand yourself enough toknow how you, as a person,
influence your art and how youcan use self-knowledge to
(02:04):
harness your artistic energies?
Jill (02:09):
Wow.
Well, first of all, even thoughwe're on this podcast and I
knew we were going to talksomething about this no, I don't
know how to do that.
Please teach me how to do that,because it sounds very
compelling.
My first thought when you saidthat was like oh, I'm a joyful
person, so joyful art, that kindof thing.
Judy (02:30):
But the way that you just put it feels very powerful, and
I think it is too Jill, and I'lltell you where the idea hit me.
And then, because I am a personthat does a lot of
self-introspection, it just keptgrowing.
But in our last episode withBea and Molly, there was
(02:52):
something we asked.
I think it was.
We asked them both, but it wasMolly's response that sparked in
me the idea that we, if we knowwho we are as artists, what
makes us happy, what draws us in, we can then translate that to
(03:14):
our art.
And, on the other hand, if wedon't know who we are, if we
have no self-understanding,we're just going to kind of
bumble along.
Now, a lot of people won't evenhave given this some thought,
but I challenge everybody outthere listening to stop and
(03:36):
think for a minute what kind ofan artist are you?
And of course, you and I aregoing to give examples, because
that's how, that's who we've got, you and me.
And so I'm going to talk abouta self-revelation in my own art.
I realized, for example, that Ilove procrastination.
(04:00):
When I have an art project orsomething.
I don't like sitting down andaccomplishing goals per day.
Now, I might do art every day,but I don't like having to meet
a benchmark, whether I've saidit or somebody else.
(04:20):
I've known this about myselffor a long time, even when I was
doing papers in school.
I'd be that person staying upto the last minute to get it
done, but I would get it doneand I would get it done very
well.
Procrastination, for me, is notsomething I feel guilty about,
(04:41):
but I need to understand that itis part of who I am and, yes,
it does influence some of myartistic energies and what I'm.
Jill (04:55):
Okay, let me just ask a quick question on that.
Sure Okay.
So when you're saying you liketo procrastinate, let's just say
because you do sell some ofyour journals and sold on Etsy
over the years.
So of course, if you knowsomeone is waiting on a journal,
they've said, oh, I want to buyone.
That is like you have acommission and so you have a
(05:16):
date or a deadline, right, soyou could still procrastinate as
long as it gets done.
But how does this work whenit's just your own journals, or
are you ultimately creating mostof your stuff to eventually put
on Etsy?
You?
Judy (05:30):
know, as it turns out.
Up to this point, most of thethings have gone on Etsy because
part of my process is sharingthem.
But the thing that I'verealized on procrastination for
me is that let's say that I runacross an artist that I just
(05:51):
love their style and I wouldlike to develop techniques like
that person's style, and Idownload and buy all the classes
they have available Because Iprocrastinate.
It might be two years before Iget around to taking those
(06:13):
classes.
Honest to God, I have some outthere that I bought over two
years ago, and as I was sittingthere looking at them and
thinking about procrastination,I realized allowing myself to
procrastinate sometimes holds meback.
I have not learned those newtechniques.
(06:35):
I have not practiced what Iwant to.
It's still sitting out there inprocrastination.
I'll get to it someday.
So procrastination can besomething that will hold us back
.
But if I didn't think about thatand know that about myself, I
(06:58):
would not then turn to myselfand say, as I did this last week
okay, kiddo, you've got a lotof really good material out
there.
Did you buy it just to leave itor are you actually going to
use it?
And I sat down and I didn't putgoals on it, but I made a
(07:20):
commitment to myself, which wetalked about in another one.
So this is a commitment to me.
I have these classes and I'mgoing to spend X number of time
every week on these classes.
But if I hadn't thought aboutit, they'd probably still be
(07:42):
sitting out there and I wouldthink about them and I'd just go
.
Oh well, one of these days I'llget around to them.
That's just one tiny example ofhow self understanding can
either hinder or support ourartistic energies.
I was not supporting myartistic energies.
Jill (08:06):
Okay, well, let me ask you another question.
I think anyone can listening,could plug in whatever they need
to, for this example, you knowif they're not a creator.
But my question for you on thatfollow up is you said then you
decided to make a commitment toyourself.
Do you know yourself as anartist that once you make a
commitment to yourself that youwill hold yourself to it?
Judy (08:28):
Yes, because I've thought about this enough and I
understand that for me as anartist, there are times when my
procrastination is no big deal.
There's nothing that is keepingme from.
But what I realized with thiswas I really am keeping myself
(08:53):
from growing If I don't getthose classes out and if I don't
use them.
I'm not going to grow throughthe techniques that I will learn
in those classes, and I thinkenough of myself that I want to
now invest time in doing that.
Jill (09:15):
Okay so, let's say, someone was listening, though,
and they said, okay, great, I'malso a procrastinator.
However, even if I told myselfI'm gonna make a commitment, I'm
gonna put in two hours a weekto watch the videos and stuff or
do the exercises, but I justknow myself, I can't hold a
commitment to myself.
I'll commit to anybody else,like we talked on that other
(09:36):
episode, but would that meanthat that type of person should?
Then what do they do?
Commission?
Find somebody?
To buy something from them.
Judy (09:45):
They get an accountability partner.
Okay, yeah, right, you knowwe've talked about
accountability partners, andmaybe accountability partner
isn't quite the right word, butit's someone that you trust,
that you can.
They will make sure that youare going to stay on what you
(10:05):
say you're going to do.
So I would do that and, believeme, there was one time in my
life in my personal selfunderstanding that I would have
needed that person.
But now I've done enoughintrospection to know I am my
own roadblock.
(10:26):
And it's not even about moneyand investing in the class.
Let me ask you a questionthat's probably the opposite
answer.
You just got done taking theclass.
Did you start that class rightafter you bought it?
Jill (10:46):
Yes, and at once, Because I was so excited to learn Okay,
I love learning new things.
I saw something that was beingcreated by the instructor that I
just felt like it would bringme so much joy to create and
some healing, and so I doveright in and, as videos were
(11:10):
released, I was watching thoseimmediately.
Judy (11:14):
So why do you suppose you are more of a dive in person
than I am?
Jill (11:22):
Well, I think one reason could be that you are a much
more seasoned artist.
You have a lot of experience inyour life.
I don't, so there is a lot morefor me to learn.
I mean that maybe that's trueor not, but I feel like I'm just
doing my little stitching stuff, and so I feel like the whole
world is open to me, and so I'mat this place where I want to
(11:44):
learn more, and I feel like evenfor the next five years, I
could feel that way.
Judy (11:49):
Okay, so am I going to be correct in assessing that when
you were in college, you wouldnot have been up late the night
before the paper was due with me?
Jill (12:00):
No, except for calculus, because I couldn't get it in my
head.
Judy (12:05):
But, and you know, each personality is different.
You and I are just two examples, and human beings are very
complex, so I'm not trying toput us into categories, but
understanding yourcharacteristics goes such a long
way in not just in life, but inhandling all kinds of things.
(12:27):
And before we go on to anotherquestion, I want to read a quote
that I just loved by the artistHenri Matisse.
We need to view ourselves withthe same curiosity and openness
with which we study a tree, andwhat I get from that is to
(12:50):
Matisse.
It was just as important to knowyourself as it was any subject
that you're going to paint ordraw or stitch, and there are
ways to, if you've never reallythought about yourself, given an
(13:11):
honest assessment because,remember, this is between you
and you.
You don't have to share this ifyou find something you're
uncomfortable with.
I mean, I was for a long timeuncomfortable with
procrastinating, but I realizedhow it fit into my personality,
how it held me back, how I canuse it in the future.
(13:33):
So you can ask yourselves aseries of questions as you go
around throughout the day andyou actually use the word.
That could be one of thequestions what brings you joy?
Jill (13:52):
Feeling the fabric in my hands, creating something pretty
, just spending time in ameditative process for me.
Judy (14:04):
Well, two thoughts With you.
The first thing you said wasfeeling the fabric.
So right there, that tells methat you chose the stitching in
part because you love fabrics.
I probably chose mixed mediabecause I like the Jack Rabbit
(14:26):
approach.
I don't have to try to makethings look representational.
They can be abstract.
You can use your hands, you canget there.
It's very important for me andI've learned this about myself
through examining differentthings.
I've tried I have to use theseguides, for example.
Jill (14:50):
I've learned that over the listener podcast.
Oh, I'm rubbing your fingers.
In case you're not on YouTube,use your fingers.
Judy (14:59):
I have to use my fingers and my hands.
If I have learned over time byjust observing how I feel when I
pick up a particular medium,what resonates with me, not just
the visual.
But if I hold a paintbrush, forexample, you would think that
(15:22):
that is using your hands, butholding a paintbrush to me is
very foreign.
I've had to learn to becomfortable with holding and I'm
putting out my fingers abouteight, nine inches long a long
paintbrush that is between meand the canvas or the paper.
(15:46):
So it's very important.
My understanding of myself,knowing that I need to be able
to get right to my materialswith my fingers, has helped me
well.
I don't know if it's helping,it's guided me to the mediums
(16:07):
that I like to use the best.
When I'm sitting at a tablewith spray bottles or paints and
glues, my hands are in themiddle of them.
When I am practicing newpainting techniques, I'm a foot,
foot and a half, two feet awayfrom them.
(16:27):
That's not the same feel to me.
So just understanding that typeof thing has helped delineate
down where I will place myartistic energies, wow.
Jill (16:43):
And that made me think of one of the things I think I like
about the stitching is that Ican sit in a cozy chair and
stitch.
I really like to feelcomfortable and cozy and be able
to do it in multiple places, someaning you could be upstairs
or in your living room orsitting in another chair.
But that's important to me, Irealize just feeling cozy while
(17:06):
I'm doing it.
Judy (17:08):
That then will draw you to an artistic medium that allows
you to do that.
I'm guessing, just like meholding the paintbrush, if you
were standing in front of aneasel with a paintbrush, even if
you thought you wanted to paint, it would not feel the way you
(17:30):
wanted to feel.
So in our two examples, whatpeople can take away from is
that the artistic medium that wechoose to focus our energies on
is far more than just thematerials themselves.
(17:50):
It's part of who we are, whatwe want out of the experience,
and any question that you canask yourself as you go through
the day will help you with thatunderstanding.
And if you come acrosssomething that's like an
(18:10):
epiphany and you can go oh God,that's right, you know, I hadn't
thought about that then you cansee how maybe that particular
thing relates to your artpractice.
And I'll ask another prettyglaring question on it.
When you come up againstsomething else and these
(18:32):
questions I send out to theentire audience also, but when
you come up against somethingnew or something you don't know
how to do the way you want to Ialmost used the bad word,
correctly, right that, the wayyou want to what do you do at
(18:55):
that point?
Jill (18:57):
I usually go to YouTube or look in a book.
Judy (19:00):
Okay.
So you go find the answer yes,okay.
And then there's another selfrevelation that I've realized
over time I quit.
Jill (19:12):
Oh, are you sure, mama Judy?
I would think that you wouldfirst try different things and
just be creative, like I don'tsee you going to YouTube
necessarily, but it seems likeyou would try things first, is
that not true?
Judy (19:28):
Not necessarily.
Okay, remember when I said youlearn these things about
yourself.
You don't think about you go.
Oh my well, that's interesting.
I am probably and these again,these are my labels.
These are not anything you goto a book and find, but I would
call myself a lazy artist up tothis point, and what I mean by
(19:52):
that is I have always gravitatedto what is easy for me and I've
been successful enough in thosethat I have never really put
out the effort to get beyond theuncomfortable feeling, the
roadblock, whatever you want tocall it.
(20:13):
But yet I never thought aboutthat.
I just did what I thought Iliked to do, which obviously is
part of it.
But trust me when I say a bigpart of it is I don't want to
put in the hard work.
Now, if you just found that outabout yourself let's say that
(20:38):
that was your self revelationwhat would you do with that in
relationship to your art?
Jill (20:47):
Well, when you said that while I'll go out and look if
it's a stitch, that I go lookand there are too many pieces,
I'm getting confused, I'm like,forget it, I don't care.
I don't really care to do thatone anymore and I'll move on to
an easier one.
So I think I am lazy in someways as well, but I'm okay with
that.
Like I'll go because I wantthis to be easy for me.
I want to grow, but I want thisto be easy for me.
(21:10):
I don't want to be stressed outgritting my teeth as I'm doing
my art.
Judy (21:16):
People as they walk by.
That's a very good point.
And any of this that we learnabout ourselves.
You then are the master of yourlife, in that you then can
choose how to use it.
What I have chosen, realizingover time all of these things
(21:38):
about myself, I sat down, I hadthis you know me myself and I
talk where I looked at itseriously and said what is it
you really want to do with yourart and do you really truly want
to grow in this direction?
And so what I've done just likewith the procrastination and
(22:04):
getting out the classes is Ihave made a commitment to myself
.
I won't turn and run at thefirst hint of difficulty and I'm
going to give myself a goldstar you know, like you did
gotten the first grade when youdid something good, because all
this week I have been followinga person that does little short
(22:28):
videos on their technique andboy, I have kept after it, even
when I just really didn't wantto be there.
Because let me go to a humanaspect there's only two reasons
that human beings make anydecision we either move towards
(22:50):
pleasure or we move away frompain.
Now, in my art practice, thatpain is the uncomfortable
feeling that I feel when I can'tachieve what that person that's
been doing it 40 years.
So I want to move away fromthat pain.
(23:15):
It's a psychological, emotionalturmoil within when you get to
that situation and I want tomove beyond it.
Two choices work in the roadquit or continue on.
Normally I would quit.
Now I am continuing on and thisdoes not mean that a year from
(23:37):
now anybody will look at my workand my journals if I'm still
doing them and say, oh look, Isee where she picked up some new
techniques.
It is more about me and thedevelopment of my entire
creative energies, or entirecreative energies, I think.
(24:06):
I got that out right Right now Ikind of put myself in a box and
I'm very happy and verycomfortable.
But if we look at something, ifwe look at a person and say man
and I'm going to againreference Bea and Molly in the
background of our last YouTubesession, you could see their
(24:28):
beautiful different paintingstyles and I know you were going
to attach their information sopeople can see their work.
And I looked at that andthought I would like to be able
to do something more in linewith that.
Jill (24:46):
The Molly one abstract yes , because I love abstract Right.
And, by the way, listeners,that is episode 17 that you can
check out.
So we interviewed two artistsnamed Bea and Molly, mother and
daughter duo.
So check that out if youhaven't heard it yet.
Judy (25:02):
Yes, and check out their work too, yes.
So again, self-assessment,self-understanding.
The more you understand anysubject, the better off you are,
you're better informed.
Well, like Matisse said, weneed to study ourselves as much
as we do that tree we're goingto go out and paint because it
(25:25):
can guide us, strengthen us,help us overcome areas, even
overcoming fears.
If I know what's blocking meand it is a fear and I am aware
of it and honest self-awareness,then I can move beyond it.
Jill (25:46):
Right, okay, so is there another question or two that
might be helpful for otherpeople, including us, to think
about, as they're having theseself-reflective times to
understand this more?
Can you think of another goodquestion that might pull
something out from us?
If people don't?
Judy (26:03):
mind that I'm going to look down because I'm reading
off my iPhone.
Here are some that I cameacross and, as I've been
thinking about myself, I'vewritten down.
What do I like about creating?
What stresses me about mycreative practice?
Why do I really want to create?
(26:27):
That's a question that camefrom Molly.
When we asked them why theycreated, Molly gave just a
phenomenal reason on why she wascompelled to create.
I think we all will use thephrase, similar phrase like oh,
I just have a need to.
I hear that quite often and Iunderstand that.
(26:50):
But beyond that, what is it youreally like about creating?
Why do you do it?
What did I love about thecreating process as a child?
Yeah, Now do I still have thatin my practice?
Jill (27:11):
Ooh, that's a good one too , because just on our last
podcast with Bea and Molly,another one, bea, who's the
mother of the mother daughterduo artist, bea, said that she
remembers she has a painting inher studio and she remembers
painting that at age 10.
And she said I remember what.
I think.
She said something like.
I remember what it felt likeand how happy I felt creating
(27:32):
that.
She said I feel the exact samething today and she is in her
late 70s.
Judy (27:37):
Yes, Bea still has the childlike enthusiasm for her
painting that she did when shewas 10 years old.
Yes, and if you ask yourselfthat and the answer is no, I
don't, then if you really wantto, you can bring that element
(28:01):
that you remember backdeliberately back into your
practice.
So, what brings me deep joy?
Do I like structure or am Imore unstructured?
And structure can be anythingbetween how we approach our
(28:21):
workspace.
What kinds of art do we do?
Is it more structured?
Is it abstract, which is alittle more unstructured?
And here's mine that we talkedabout already.
Do I procrastinate or do I needto reach a daily goal?
Do I give up easily or do Istick with something that is
(28:45):
uncomfortable?
Are there any fears that keepme from creating something I
want?
And my last one, that I reallylike, that I I'd like to you
know, tell you that I'm perfectand I do this all the time, but
I have to keep going back to it.
(29:05):
Do I have a mindful practice?
Do I sit down and am I presentat that time, in the moment,
with a mindful approach to whatI'm doing?
Do I truly feel the emotions ofwhat I'm going through when I
(29:26):
create?
Do I bring in extra sensorythings to the experience I think
a mindful practice is abeautiful practice.
Now, I don't want to confusepeople when someone says I just
kind of sit down, like you usethe word meditate, that's also
(29:49):
mindful because you're focusingon what's in front of you.
So all of that list ofquestions, and if our listeners
want more, there are more that Ican provide, but I think you
can come up with your own.
And the most important thing isto just take the time to figure
(30:14):
out who you are as an artist,as a human being, I should say
who you are as a human being,and how then that knowledge
relates to your art practice andwork with both your strengths.
What are your creativestrengths?
What are your creativeweaknesses?
Jill (30:37):
Well, I think this exercise is going to be very
important to a lot of people.
I am actually going to go backand re-listen to this so that I
can think about this, because Ihave not been very introspective
about this.
I'm really interested in doingthat as well and to our
listeners.
I will also some of the thingsthat Mama Judy read out and
listed out.
I'm going to go ahead and justput those in the show notes and
(30:59):
on the different places whereyou'll see this on YouTube and
stuff, so that you can obviouslylisten.
But if you want to just sitdown and really think about
those for yourselves, you canhave that and I'll just have
them written out there like that.
Judy (31:10):
Perfect.
And just one last thing, justkind of summarizing for
everybody out there.
Like you said, it's the fullspectrum.
Some people have done a lot ofintrospection, some not.
It's important to understandyour art and you are your art.
(31:33):
That's where it comes from.
It comes from within you, andthe more you understand about
both, the better.
Whatever that word means.
Better, better can be.
You know, maybe you that stitchthat you said you didn't want
to do because it was toocomplicated, maybe you'll go
(31:54):
back at some point and try itout, master, that's a step in
the improvement.
So it all leads into helping ushave a better artistic practice
.
Jill (32:09):
Well, this has just been.
I feel like a masterclass today, mama Judy.
Judy (32:15):
Sometimes I can't shut my brain off.
Jill (32:19):
Thank you.
This really has been helpful.
So we hope, obviously, thatthis will be helpful to you as
the listeners, and we'd love tohear from you.
As we always say, I would alsoask that, if you like this
podcast or the YouTube page, ifyou would share it with a friend
or two to help us to continueto spread the awareness of our
podcast, and we love having newlisteners.
(32:40):
So we would really appreciatethat, and yeah, yes, we would.
Judy (32:45):
And, Jill, I just want to reaffirm what you said.
I go out to YouTube and some ofthe comments I've received on
Instagram and every one of themis just so important to us.
You know, we're kind of like wehave mentioned before.
We're in this little vacuum ofyou and I out there just having
(33:06):
a conversation on things thatare important to us and we hope
they're important to others aswell.
So when we get that feedback,it all, be honest, it's kind of
like a whole good.
It's a validation, friends, andwe all need that occasionally.
Jill (33:25):
Yes, and Mama Judy, by the way, being caught in a vacuum
with anyone.
I would have no one else butshe to be stuck in a vacuum with
.
Judy (33:34):
We can be stuck on that desert island together.
Just bring your art supplies.
Jill (33:39):
Yes, we could use coconuts and like dye dying, that's
right.
Judy (33:45):
Tom Hanks and his ball that he made would have nothing
on us.
Jill (33:49):
Yes, All right, everyone, until next week.
We look forward to being withyou again next week and thanks
again for tuning in.
Yes, all right, mama Judy, I'llsee you soon, love you.
Love you too, bye.
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