November 15, 2023 • 46 mins
Wanda Katz creates the most magical miniature books. She's relatively new as an artist, exercising her creative aptitude daily in her wonderful studio in the UK, after an early retirement of translating for the United Nations (she's fluent in Italian!) at the age of 50.
Wanda has always had an aesthetic eye, but to call herself an "artist" may have felt like a stretch until she began creating art in book form.
Tune in to learn about Wanda's journey from a young girl who loved books to the artist that she is today. We also uncover how Wanda grew an adoring audience quite quickly on Instagram, and all that inspires her as an artist.
Click here to check some of Wanda's beautiful work on Instagram.
If you'd prefer to watch this podcast, you can find us over on our YouTube page (The Mama Judy & Jill Podcast).
We'd LOVE to hear from you! Click here to send us your thoughts and ideas for a future episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh good, you made it.
We are so glad you're here.
Welcome to the Mama Judy andJill podcast, an
intergenerational chat aboutlife, art and the creative
process.
I'm your host, jill, andjoining me is my wonderful
co-host and bonus mom, mama Judy.
Let's get started.
Welcome back.
(00:21):
Today.
We have a really exciting guestwith us.
Her name is once, and I'm goingto let her introduce herself in
a moment here.
But first of all, the topicthat we're talking about today
is a little bit around socialmedia and using social media as
a creative.
So that is where we've askedWanda to come on and speak her
experience and all that.
But first of all, welcome,wanda, thank you.
(00:43):
Thank you for coming and justgive us, give our audience, a
little idea about where you live, what you do, both creatively
as well as if you have anoutside job, and just tell us a
little bit about your Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, I live.
Well, I say, at the moment.
I've lived in Bath for nearly10 years.
It's a Georgian city inSomerset, an hour and a half
from London.
But I hail from Londonoriginally, so I live here in a
little Georgian houseoverlooking the city of Bath.
I see the abbey out of mywindow and it's a wonderful
(01:16):
setup in my studio space and Iwork pretty much full time as an
artist.
Can't believe I'm actuallysaying that, but yes, I would
say it's a full time endeavourreally.
I was lucky to take earlyretirement, which allows freed
up time for me to pursue what isactually quite a new avenue for
(01:41):
me.
I'm not an I can't sort of giveyou a story about.
Oh, I've been.
I came out of the room with apaintbrush in my hand, or glue
or a paint box.
I came to this creative side ofmyself actually very, very only
in the last year and a half.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Wow very good.
Excellent story.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well, and tell me also so you're now
professionally like this is whatyou do as an artist, and so
what does that look like?
Do people commission you or doyou sell things on Etsy or like
how does that I?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
could sell a lot.
But I'm one of Do you know what?
I find it actually really hardto part with things, and I think
it's because they're one-offs.
I thought that I'd lost a bookthat I was very fond of and I
was so upset the fact that Ithought I'd lost it, that and
then I was reunited with it.
That kind of made me feel likeI'm actually not very good at
selling anything, but that Imean, if I did, I think that
(02:40):
there would be some demand.
Because I'm again on socialmedia, I get asked quite often
do you sell your work?
Will you sell me this book?
Could you?
Can I commission?
So I do get asked that a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
And you know, wanda, that'll come, maybe and maybe
not.
It'll come when the time isright.
And you know what, keep them.
If you want to have them buriedwith you, who cares?
It's really about what you want.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, well, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it's a very it's an oddthing because I, oh, I did a
giveaway, though on social mediaI did, and that was wonderful.
I actually really enjoyed that.
So I think I'd rather give themaway than sort of sell them.
(03:34):
You know, I like to dogiveaways.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, wanda on social media is Paper Palace Queen
Paper Palace Queen.
You can find her on Instagram.
If you're not already followingher, probably a lot of our
listeners are already followingyou, but tell anyone that's
listening.
What type of art do you do?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Well, how did it come about?
It's really strange.
Well, what I do now is Ipredominantly work in book form.
That's where my passion liesand that stems back to early
childhood of having a love allof my life of books, of reading,
of handling the object.
(04:11):
I was utterly fascinated withthat.
So it's not a surprise to methat my work takes that form At
the moment.
It's still quite traditional ina book format, but I am looking
at ways of trying to expandunder the umbrella of book and
what I can produce creatively.
So it's.
I mean, I'm still a youngartist.
(04:33):
I mean I'm not young, young,but as far as my artistic side
is concerned, it came aboutthrough social media.
Isn't that extraordinary?
I mean, that's how it cameabout.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Wow, yeah, okay.
So, wanda, I got started insocial media way back when I was
doing jewelry, and it was Jillthat got me started, because I'd
never done anything like that.
Put yourself out like that.
So I'm very curious how youcame about, how your art came
(05:08):
about through social media.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, Well, it was in the evenings, you know, trying
to find something to relax thelast half an hour before you go
to sleep, and I would findmyself watching.
It wasn't Instagram then it wasYouTube, and I would kind of
watch these videos of peoplekind of creating not the type of
(05:30):
work that I do, because Iwasn't seeing that on YouTube,
but just playing around withcollage, you know, watching
people do collage or art videosin general, and I was just happy
to watch them for quite sometime.
It didn't go over to the fact,oh, I must give that a go,
because up until that point Inever thought I I've got an
(05:52):
ascetic eye, I've always hadthat.
But I'm always asked all mylife are you an artist?
It's the first thing people ask.
I think it's the way I dress,the way I look, I don't know.
And I would turn around and sayto them oh, I can't draw.
No, I'm not an artist.
And I was limiting, limiting artto not being able to paint or
(06:13):
draw, or really kind of narrowreally.
And so I would say, no, I'm not.
So it's yeah.
I mean, if it wasn't forYouTube or social media, I
wouldn't.
When I got onto Instagram, thatcompletely blew my mind.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So what was your, your first post?
What made you make that veryWell?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I was.
I had been creating every dayfor about eight, six to eight
months before I I never occurredto me to put my work on
Instagram at all.
I had no social media presence.
I don't have Facebook.
I mean, I've asked all the timedo I have a YouTube channel?
I don't have a YouTube channelat the moment and it was family
members who saw my work and saidyou know, why don't you, why
(06:58):
don't you put this on Instagram?
And when they, they kind ofsold it to me on the idea that
actually it can be a digitalarchive, and it's absolutely
true that.
But I must stress that for me, adigital archive is wonderful,
but it will never, ever for me,take the place of the original
object for me.
So it but it's wonderful tolook, scroll through your feed
(07:23):
and, wow, do I like certaincolors?
And it's blatantly obvious whenI, when I look through and I
you know you're not going to seeshocking baby pink anywhere
soon, no, you know.
Or yellow, I mean, it's allvery it's, it's where I'm, I'm,
I'm just drawn to certain colors.
So that's interesting.
But I think it's wonderful as a, as an archive.
(07:45):
I think that's one of thebenefits.
There are many benefits toInstagram, actually, but I think
that that is a good one, so youcan have your things there for
all time.
So God forbid if you losesomething but it.
For me it's not quite the sameas seeing.
I don't think it ever is.
I think it's maybe, and I haveto say that sometimes when I
(08:06):
post something, I post the mostwhat I think is the most
wonderful thing.
It's probably one of myfavorites and it doesn't
translate.
Sometimes a work just doesn'ttranslate to the audience on 2D
yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yes, yeah, I'll tell you what I love Like today, the
posts that you had out there.
The little itty bitty one.
What are they?
Like?
An inch and a half by two, myGod, how do you even see those
to be able to?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
make.
I always work in miniature.
I mean, six by four ishumongous for me, really.
That's.
That's quite.
Anything bigger than seven byfive would be pretty.
I have done books at seven byfive, but my, there's something
about even though they're sosmall, they're almost dual, like
they're almost.
(09:01):
Oh, you know, I find thelayering techniques much easier
for me when they're smaller theyare.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
You do a great job of layering Wanda.
For anybody listening or evenwatching, I highly recommend
that they follow.
I mean, your work is wonderful,your story is wonderful.
In fact, your story is touchedupon two or three things that in
the past we've talked about howyou get to become an artist,
(09:31):
how you accidentally fall intoit.
And I have to say I don't knowanyone I follow who uses
Instagram to the extent that youdo Really.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Well, you use.
Oh, I think the problem is I'veset myself up for a bit of a.
I post daily and the problemwith that is that it's a.
You know, if I don't I mean Ihave so much work that I could
put on, you know, I'm three orfour or five books in advance of
what I'm putting on.
So it's not as if what you seetoday is what I've created right
(10:08):
at this minute.
So I'm not sort of stuck forthings to put on.
But you know, I do post once aday.
I do stories a lot.
But yes, you're right, I dopost once a day.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, Well then you Well, you use live You've gone
live before you use reels youuse stories, you make comments
in the direct messaging area.
So I mean, you really do useInstagram, work it To the
(10:40):
fullest.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I do, but you know what?
There are so many artists thatI love that actually, I mean, I
don't really get involved in anyediting techniques or anything
like that, so there's a lot thatI don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Well, number one.
I think that's great becausesometimes when you get into the
editing, that's just going totake up more time and sometimes
that can be more stressful for aperson.
But, wanda, I was going to saywhen Mama Judy was saying how
intentional you are aboutposting and you post every day
and you do these differentthings.
One thing you mentioned wasthat you're not posting what
(11:21):
you're working on that time,which I think a lot of artists
do.
But I work my paid job is for acompany that does a lot of
digital marketing and onlinemarketing and social media and
that sort of thing, so I knowwhat it looks like for people to
do it right, and I don't do itright on my own art account
because this is more fun for me.
(11:41):
But one thing that you saidthat's very helpful for an
artist if they did want to bemore prolific or just to be able
to post more is to use thingsthat you've created in the past,
so that you're not feeling thatstress of I have to post
something.
Today.
I committed to myself that Iwant to post.
I have to have something.
You're in this place where youcan just post things that you
already have, so it makes iteasier on you, naturally,
(12:03):
because when you start feelinglike it's this big chore to be
posting and have to createsomething for that intention it
makes.
Yeah, that would be too much.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I would say that everything I post I love.
I would never put anything onfor the sake of putting it on.
Everything I put on, there's alot I don't put on because it
hasn't quite reached what I, forme, my.
If I'm happy with it, then itgoes on.
(12:33):
So I tell back things and, forexample, I think about a week
ago I put on a book which hasdone incredibly well and I sat
on it for months because Ithought you know what?
No, no, no, it just doesn'tfeel right for me, but I would
urge everyone to.
I think Instagram is one of itspluses.
Any negatives that there areout there are far outweighed by
(12:57):
the positives, for me for sure.
I think initially, at the veryearly stages of Instagram, I was
very hooked on going on a lotand checking how many likes or
what was going on and all ofthat.
I mean I don't really do thatnow, although occasionally I
note.
I mean, if your audiencedoesn't like it, you know the
likes go down.
(13:18):
I mean there's no doubt aboutthat and it always happens on
the work.
That, I think, is the best.
So that's kind of interestingWell but there's also the
algorithm.
There's also an algorithm.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
We can't help and that could be something that
just did not appear in people'sfeeds and you can't help it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
But the community aspect.
I mean I'm in touch with awonderful artist in Australia.
We speak once a week.
There's somebody in Germany whoI love, so I mean that side has
been absolutely amazing.
I never thought at all thatthere would be this sort of back
.
And the comments I mean thecomments are just so wonderful
(13:58):
that people take.
I mean I'm just so surprisedthat people take the time to
look at your work and thencomment on it as well, and some
of the comments are just notthat I'm trying to beef myself
up, but some of the comments arejust just really wonderful how
they find my work inspirational.
Because I'm looking.
(14:19):
If you, for example, are havinga day when you just have no
ideas and you just go to yourdesk and you say, oh, that's
just nothing, it's working, Imean all I need to do is go to
turn on Instagram and look atmaybe some artists I'm following
and I'm completely, and thenI'm inundating.
My mind is just too much, it'sgone, it goes the other way.
(14:39):
So it's like having your own.
It's like going to an artgallery, actually, and you have
your own art gallery as well ifyou want to post.
So it's two way street.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I think it's wonderful.
It's a great description.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
It is, and do you all both have?
You know how you can save posts.
I have like an inspiration filethat just certain things that
really get to me.
I'll, you know, save it andsometimes I will just go back
and scroll through those just toget some inspiration on
something I'm working on.
Do you also do that one day?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
I don't have a specific place where I put them
all.
I mean I there are certainartists that I follow and and
look at their work.
I mean there's lots of artiststhat I love.
It's not what I do, but Iabsolutely love what they do as
well, but I know there's so much, there's so much inspiration
out there.
I mean that the net.
When I say the negative side ofsocial media, I think it's more.
(15:37):
It's not from other people,it's, it's how it's.
I think you have to let go ofhaving an expectation of.
I think, as long as you'rehappy with what you've put up
and and it's, then you just haveto let it go out in the world
and if it doesn't get many likes, that's absolutely fine as well
.
So it's.
I think in the early days, Iwas always a little bit or maybe
(15:59):
I'm not, as you know, it's notgoing but I've given all of that
up.
Now it's more about.
I mean this is an interestingquestion and I'm not going to
say the artists who actuallysaid this to me, but we were
talking about the creating andputting posts up and and I said
well, if you Didn't post onInstagram, would you still
(16:19):
create?
I mean, would you still and sheactually said no, hmm.
So so I think it's I mean,maybe some people, it's the
Instagram side, maybe moreimportant.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Accountable.
Is that why she said I wouldn't, because I just wouldn't make
time for it?
Or is it that she?
No, it's just more.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I think it's it's become quite a large part of
where, for me, it's I, I mean, Iwas creating before Instagram,
so I would just carry on.
You're creating, you know I Imean, if I don't come into the
studio on a daily basis, I Ifeel a little bit you know, I'm
not always happy with what I'mdoing here, but I have to come
in here.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yes, yes, no, totally understand.
Yeah, and I'm with you.
You know it wouldn't.
I was creating years beforethere was even Etsy.
So I Look at Instagram andsocial media.
I get excited when I dosomething that I really like,
(17:15):
and it's like a little childthat you know makes that drawing
in the first grade and theywant to take it home and share
it with everybody becausethey're so excited about it.
That's the way I've alwayslooked at Instagram is just the
way to share Whatever.
It is good, bad, nuggly.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well, and also for you, Mama Judy, while it's not
your full-time thing, but you dolike to release your things out
into the world, and so you havean Etsy store.
So that's a little bitdifferent, but it does help on
social media because you'll putup something for sale in Etsy
and it's sold in an hour or halfan hour or whatever I mean a
lot of times.
So that is a benefit forartists that do want to release
(17:56):
their things out into the world,to have that as a Platform
where people like people areasking Wanda, when can I get one
of your pieces?
So the minute you're ready todo that, if you wanted to, that
you know your community is rightthere, ready to be your
customers.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I have to get on a different type of hat, because
it's a really odd thing.
I just some reason I can't seemto let them go.
But I, you know, I do likedoing the giveaways.
I've thought that was such fun,so I'll probably do another one
of those.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Well, and and that's a way of letting one go, wanda
and the rest I just happen tohave a different viewpoint.
When I make something, I getexcited For it to find who it
belongs to, and I literally evenwhen I did my jewelry that's
the way I looked at it wasthere's somebody I'm creating
(18:48):
this for, and so by doing that,I think I only have two of my
early journals that I kept, wow,and I look at them periodically
and go, oh, are they ready tofind a new home?
And they always tell me no.
So those two will probably staywith me and they're nothing
(19:11):
special.
I think it was just where I wasat the time that I was
communicating through my art,and so I was communicating for
myself.
Now I just put another one outthat I finished, and so I can
(19:33):
move on, wanda, to one that hasour Brungie colors.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I got rid of the.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Wanda and I like the same face colors.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean.
The thing is, though, I need tofind a cabinet to house all of
these books.
This is the other thing.
I mean they do take up, I mean,even though they're tiny.
I mean, you know, and the thingis that You're right, I mean,
once I finished a book, I I havemoved on.
So, you know and I, they justpile up.
For me it is about the process,it's not the end.
(20:10):
I mean it's all about theprocess and the space within.
You know how that comes about.
So once they're finished, I dolook at them occasionally, but
not really Very often.
But yeah, maybe I'll have tohave a little think about
Letting letting some go I'll seehow, see how it goes.
I mean, it's all about theprocess.
I have such fun Creating them Ireally do and just exploring.
(20:33):
You know and it's like an everyartist.
I mean, I can't believe Iactually say I'm an artist.
Now, you know it's such a kindof thing because it's telling
you all of this.
I've only been on Instagram,let's not forget since January.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, of this year, yeah, wow.
I do have a couple of specificquestions to Instagram, but I
also wanted it.
It would be kind of neat if youever wanted to have a show of
your books, like you know, ifit's locally or even if you did
it online.
When I know me, I am, I am, oh,you are tell us about it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Well, I was invited by the.
Well, actually, you know, Ithink this is more.
I'm actually so chuffed aboutthis because it's better that
for me it's better than agallery.
They're going to give me somedisplay cases in the public
library because for me, that'sactually my love of books
stemmed as a child, you know,going into the little children's
section of my local library andso to have my books on display
(21:30):
in various ways, in displaycabinets, because they're so
tiny, in a public library whereyou know you're going to get
more foot, for you're going toget more people looking at them
for a start, and in a kind of agallery setting where maybe a
lot of people feel that's kindof environments not for them
anyway.
So I mean, I'm just so chuffedabout that.
I'm just so chuffed about thatthat's happening next year.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Oh good, and I hope you'll share that on social
media, because that will be fun.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
That's fun how that goes out.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yes, and you know, I'll bet Wanda that if you took
a picture of where your littlebooks are housed right now, just
that picture of all your littlebooks would be a piece of art.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
You know, they're all just stacked together.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
That does help yeah well, I did put on.
I did put a post up showing, Ithink, nine or 10 in a frame in
close up, but you're absolutelyoh, yeah, if I piled them all up
.
I think I've done that severaltimes.
I think I have done that.
But yeah, I mean, I can alwaysdo it.
Yeah, I love layers, layers andlayers and layers.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Oh okay, speaking of layers, I have a question about
your tools.
So, because you work currentlyin such small pieces, do you
have like tweezer type tools ordo you just I'm actually holding
them, I'm actually holding them.
It's just bog standard tweezers.
Okay, wow, with a small likethat, and are you using those
for a lot of what you're doing,those tweezers?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yes, I mean, I used to use a different type.
I prefer these.
I don't know where the idea ofworking so small came about.
I have no idea.
It just seems to be what I like.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
You know the other thing about Instagram, one that,
when you were talking about itbeing like an archive, it'll
also show you the progression inyour art as you.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
That's embarrassing, yeah, well, you know, no, well,
actually I say that you knowwhat.
There was a really famouswriter, an American writer, and
she writes a novel every 10years.
She's really well known, verypetite little birdlike woman.
Anyway, she writes a book every10 years and she was saying
that when in her latest novelshe wrote about 50,000 words and
(23:43):
realized that they were all amistake.
But in order for her to get thebook out, what she wanted to
get out, she had to write those50,000 words.
So they weren't a mistake, theyjust didn't end up in the
finished piece.
So when I look at my old work,my very old work, I mean, and I
look at it now it's so farremoved from even though it's
not that long ago.
(24:04):
It's so far removed from how Iam now.
But then I think, well,actually, if it wasn't for that
type of work, I wouldn't havebeen able to progress to where I
am now.
That's for sure.
That's part of their process.
Yeah, but I have thought thatsome of the older posts, I'm not
(24:29):
sure how I feel about themanymore really.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Well, I feel I hope, like me, speaking from my
perspective, I'm like I hopethose little pieces are honored
for those images, because theywere like the baby artist of you
is coming out, and so I justfeel like they have a place of
honor, even if you look at them,though, and you're like, ooh, I
don't like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, I think a lot of artists I mean even I'm sure
even Rembrandt didn't like hissketches there was no, I mean I
think a lot of artists that theydid kind of their early work,
they think, ooh, I'm not sureabout that.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
But, yeah, what does your Instagram?
What are you?
So?
You said you post daily.
So what does that look like foryou?
Do you spend like morning timeor is it kind of all over the
place?
Are you more organized about itand do it within an hour?
No, I do it first thing.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Okay, lying in bed when I get up first thing, I
know what I'm gonna put on,because I've decided the night
before.
And so I don't want to sort of,you know, early in the morning,
think about what I'm gonna puton.
I know what I'm putting on andyou know there's a little
thought process about, oh,should I go this?
You know that kind of thing,should I?
Would it be better to have itlike this?
(25:38):
Like the questions I might askare oh well, that one's a little
bit like the one I've justposted the day before.
Shall I change it?
I mean those kinds of thingsmaybe think about.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, and so the night before do you usually only
have just the next days, or doyou sometimes jot down three or
four days in a row?
Or are you waking up?
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I mean, sometimes I've been working on something
and I'm super excited that I'llactually post that the following
day because I love it so much.
I don't want to wait.
You know not in the queuingsystem, but I mean it depends
what I'm.
I mean I've got differentstyles going on at the moment,
so I kind of do a couple of oneand then I might do, you know, a
couple of the botanical typebooks, but the one consistency
(26:22):
is the color for sure.
And the grungy, the grungy, youknow, look.
Yeah, the grungy I mean.
I sometimes say to friends oh,I put my books on the back of
the car and drive it and justlet them dangle on the road.
That's the kind of looking for.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I might try that.
Yeah, that's a good idea Runover it for a two or three times
.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Exactly, I'm sure someone's done it, I'm sure they
have, you know.
But Instagram I mean, even forcourses.
I remember in one of your olderpodcasts you mentioned that
you've signed up for coursesthat you actually haven't got
round to doing them.
But I think that I've done somewonderful courses that have
(27:09):
been truly inspiring.
And I don't act on themimmediately though I don't work
like that it goes in and itfesters and I think oh, oh, and
there's a lot of collating.
You know you've got to putthings together, so it's, I do
love watching them.
So on Instagram, you knowthere's lots of artists who do
courses, and so I thinkInstagram social media is great
(27:32):
for artists.
I'm trying to think of other,any negatives?
Speaker 3 (27:37):
I you know.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
The only negative that I could think of Wanda is,
like you said, if it becomessomething that people are more
concerned with the outcome, thenit can that can be a little bit
of a negative, yeah, in myopinion because you change what
you do, because if you the thingis, if you have an audience in
(27:57):
mind, you're, you know you're,maybe you know you're thinking
about pleasing them or they lovethis, so, oh, I'm going to do
more of that Because that's sopopular, then that just wouldn't
work for me.
I mean, I just I do what I doand I post what I post and I'm
so grateful that people seem tolike it.
(28:19):
You know, I never thought that,I never thought I'd have 2000
followers in 10 months, ninemonths.
That never even entered my head, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Extraordinary, really .
And not only followers, but youhave a very engaged following.
That's more important thananything.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Absolutely, I do.
You're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right, I do.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Because I've seen people that have 100,000
following and they don't have asmany comments as you do, or
even Mama Judy does Sometimes.
You both have Mama Judy also asa very engaged audience.
But I think you beingconsistent, your work being so
beautiful to look at and thewords that you pair up with what
you say like all of thattogether, I know, is helping to
(29:02):
push your thing out in thealgorithm.
I think consistency is a bigthing, even if you say you post
every day.
But even if someone justdecides three days a week, I'm
going to post to keep consistent.
I've heard anyway that thealgorithm is going to be that
consistent.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, consistency is key, maybe consistency is key,
but yeah, I mean I'm just soblown away by some of the
comments.
I mean I remember very briefly,I put this on this was a little
box that I produced with littlein honor of my grandfather and
I put these attribute cards andthe comments I got.
(29:39):
I must have got 50, 60 commentsI don't know how many sort of
saying how wonderful that theythought the idea was and they
even spoke about my grandfatherand I gave some background of my
grandfather.
I was really moved by that,that people actually took the
time not just to look at, youknow, because people do.
I mean they read what you say.
You know when you write theyare actually reading it as well,
(30:01):
because I often get comments,you know.
Oh, and sometimes I hide what Ido.
Sometimes I like to hide thingsin my post and I've got some
followers who actually like totry and find what I've hidden.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Oh great, I'm excited to start looking for these
things.
Okay, do you want to give anyhints as to what you're hiding,
or is that just for whoeverwants to go take a look to
figure it out for themselves?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, it just depends on each.
In each book I kind of made, Imay hide a little rusty safety
pin that's just kind of peekingout, or a little face, or I'm
obsessed with circles.
I always have been obsessedwith circles, so there's always
a lot of circles and they're agreat blaring technique.
So I use a lot of circles.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, well, so curious, and you've kind of said
some of this as we've got along.
But what would you say ifsomeone's listening and they're
looking to you and they'resaying, okay, I'll try to be
consistent.
Content is obviously the workthat you put out there.
If someone doesn't have goodcontent or if they're not
spending any time at leastputting some sort of thought out
(31:10):
there or something, people maynot be drawn to them.
But are there any othersuggestions you would say to
someone who is saying, okay, howcan I get an engaged following
like you have?
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well, I think you I mean, yeah, you don't have to
post every day, for sure, butalso be engaged with your
followers.
I always actually more recentlynow I actually generally thank
everyone who send them a littlethank you, because I think, it's
just wonderful that they takethe time to actually, you know,
(31:42):
send a comment.
So I always sort of say thankyou, or if they've asked a
question I reply to it.
But just I would sort of say,try it, you know, but then don't
sort of.
It can't be the be all and endall.
You know.
You've just got to do what youwant to do and not be.
If you're kind of an artistwho's just starting and you're
not sure about your work, youknow you can't please everybody.
(32:04):
So I think what's reallyimportant is that you, what
you're putting on you're happywith, first and foremost, and if
others like it too, you know,that's absolutely wonderful.
And I think artists, they'reall very supportive of each
other.
Anyway, in general, yes, yes,sorry yeah.
(32:25):
And you know, although it'swonderful, you don't just get
artists who follow.
I mean, you get followers ofother types of followers as well
.
You know just artists.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yep, and you know, wanda.
Going back to what you saidabout you only post what you
like.
If you get away from that, ifyou post for the audience, you
are no longer authentic becauseyou're not doing it for yourself
.
So the way you've done it inyour heart is authentic.
(32:58):
That's you.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, as I said, severalbooks I've put on haven't done
as well, who knows why, but Imean, for me I absolutely adore
them.
They're probably my favoriteones.
So it's.
And also I'm aware thatsometimes you know a piece of
art doesn't translate well.
Maybe you know the angle's notright or maybe things often,
sometimes because you knowyou're only seeing it's not the
(33:21):
same as seeing it in front ofyou or on the wall.
But I think it's great forartists because we can all have
our own little gallery.
It's like having your owngallery really.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
It is your own tribe.
Yeah, exactly, and that's sad,and I know I'll use the word
community in case there'ssomebody who doesn't like the
word tribe.
But it's a like-minded groupand you get support from it and
that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I mean you could spend all day, just you know.
I mean you kind of have to timeit because otherwise you could
spend so much time looking atthat you wouldn't get any work
done, you know.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
But I just pop on.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I'm consistent.
I just sort of pop on, maybefor five, 10 minutes, and I you
know, and most people post atthe same time.
I've noticed that people postat the same time.
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I think well, you see , there's so many.
I mean, there's so manydifferent types of accounts,
isn't there on Instagram?
So, depending on what type, Ijust have the box, standard,
basic one.
So I don't prerecord or settimers.
You know, something goes on asand when, but it's generally the
same time every day.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
More or less.
I didn't even know there weredifferent levels of Instagram.
See, that tells you how basic.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I am, yeah, you could , oh my God.
Well, for example, I have anartist friend who posts
regularly and she has adifferent type of account, so I
think they call it a contentaccount, a content creator
account, and this is reallygeared up for people who want to
know the statistics about who'slooking at your work.
You go all the through thestats, which I'm not really that
(34:59):
interested in because it willtake away from the work.
I mean, that's a whole notherarea that was gonna take up a
lot of brain activity and that'snot really where you know,
trying to get your art out thereto even more people.
If you want to be a contentcreator, there's a certain type
of account where you can gobehind the scenes and seeing
(35:20):
what type of people arefollowing you, who is
unfollowing you, who is you knowall of that.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
When your audience is online, different things.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, so it's interesting, but it would just
take away from doing the work inthe first place for me.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Well, and Mama Judy, I will ask you also, because you
have over a couple of thousandpeople as well, and our newer to
Instagram and posting and thattype of thing, what do you have
any suggestions so you don't doyou post every single day?
You're pretty close to it,wouldn't?
Speaker 3 (35:55):
you say I'm not as consistent as Wanda is, and
actually I have nothing more toadd than what Wanda has already
said, and one of the biggestthings is that she just said
just try it and don't get.
It is not a popularity contest.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
No.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
And if you go down that rabbit hole, you're to me,
you're on there for the wrongreasons.
Yeah, I like so what Wanda andI are both doing and oh, trust
me, trust me 100%.
My little ego loves it whensomebody likes my work.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Absolutely, I think everybody know, judy, I think I
mean everyone likes their workto be validated in some way, to
feel that it's.
But it comes a point where youhave to kind of I think that the
I think we are our own harshestcritics as well.
You know, I think that we are.
This is the problem, really.
I think I think you have to getback to if you are happy.
(36:57):
If you look at the piece ofwork you've created, you go, oh
my god, I mean my heart.
It's almost like I've taken acaffeine pill or something.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
I get a high.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I get a high from a piece of work that I look at and
I think, oh my god, I just lovethis so much.
I love it when you get thatnatural high.
I don't know where that comesfrom, but it's.
You know.
Sometimes I get that when Ireally and I look at it, I think
I actually do that.
How did I do that?
I didn't know how it came about.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Okay, I'm going to tell a story on myself which is
kind of goes back to what Wandawas talking about.
I go to Pinterest forinspiration and I'm looking at
this piece of work it's ajournal and I just love it and
I'm going God, I just love it.
I looked down and it was my own.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
So funny.
Yeah, you're your biggest fan,why not?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Oh.
So what I did?
I made a separate.
You know how, on Pinterest youcan have a what do they call it?
A book or whatever, and you canmake some books.
So I have one called mixedmedia and I put everybody else's
work.
Then I have a sub chapterthat's called my journals and,
(38:23):
honestly, because I'm like youwanted, there will be times I'll
create and it'll be like I wasnot present while I was creating
, because then I'll look at itand go when did that come from?
So I put them all out onPinterest now where, when I need
(38:43):
inspiration, I might find someinspiration in some of my former
pages that came out ofsomewhere that I wasn't even
aware they were coming out.
I'm like you I look atsomething and go, oh my God, I
did that and you get a naturalhigh.
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, it's so fun.
Well, and isn't it neat to that, wanda and myself to, you've
come to being this creative,artistic type person not that
long ago in your life and yourgrown up.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
It's amazing that it came about, jill, at a time when
I was able to do it as well.
Yes, I mean I it's funnybecause you often hear about
artists who you know sort of, orthey've started very early and
you know they've, they've alwaysknow what they wanted to do.
I mean my, my whole kind oflife, work, life, has been a
(39:39):
completely different genres, socertainly not artistic really,
but it's interesting that itcame about at a time that I was
able to give it attention andit's all come together and I'm
just so happy it's in book formbecause that's where my you know
books.
As a young child I had a verydifficult upbringing and books
was where I could go to escapeand to absolutely my very early
(40:02):
I mean I it's really strangethat when I was very young I had
a project on the go I was ayoung, I mean this days before
Internet was none of that andI'd have to send off for things.
That was almost a bit like ascrapbook, but it was more than
a scrapbook, and so that I wasdoing layering, I was doing, and
it's extraordinary.
I thought about it the otherday and I think why did this
(40:24):
idea come for doing books?
And it actually stems back tothat very small child who had
that.
I had that project on the go andsort of yeah, I did a project
on Italy and then I narrowed itdown to Rome and I wanted to
learn everything.
And I was six and seven, I wantto know everything about Rome
and I speak Italian, would youbelieve it went on.
(40:46):
I went to live in Italy for 12years.
So you know, it all comeswonderful, it all comes about,
but those techniques I think Iwas actually doing and then they
lay dormant for decades.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
You still have that.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
You still have that little book from when you were
little one.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Unfortunately I don't .
If I do, you know what?
If I could give up everythingto see that little book again?
Me too, I don't know whathappened to that.
Great shame.
Great shame, there it is.
If there was Instagram, then Icould have put it on, you see,
and I know, I know, you knowwonder.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
When I was in the first grade, I used to write my
own books.
I have a container full ofbooks.
You know how.
You'd write them in a peachytype of container.
They were all about horses,they were.
I was always the heroine.
(41:42):
When you were talking aboutdoing books and turning it back
to your love of books as a child, it, the little aha moment went
on and I went.
Well, maybe that's why I lovethese odd books not just mine,
but that everybody's doingbecause I'm like you.
(42:03):
Reading was my solace when Iwas growing up.
It's where I could build myimagination, and now that
imagination is creating its ownform of books, and that's a
complete circle.
It's a wonderful circle.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yes, and like when one of them went to live in
Italy, you ended up owning ahorse.
You know some of the thingsthat also pages.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Right, yeah, yeah, books are their companions
really.
I mean, they really they reallyare, I mean, and it was also.
It was about the smell of books, it was about the, you know,
the holding of the object.
It was.
I mean, I would prefer to holda book as a child than a teddy
bear, really.
So they were, they were kind ofplaces you could just escape to
(42:53):
, and yeah, I just and.
I still do.
I mean, my house is full ofbooks, but they're all artists,
they're all my monographs.
Generally I don't really readfiction, but yeah, loads of
books everywhere.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yeah, same here.
In fact, I go buy them just tohold them and look at them.
Old books.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Oh yeah, you need an old bookstore and yes.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Well, you know, I have a library real close to me
and I go just sit in the library, even if I want to go read a
newspaper or something I justlike being in a library to.
And mama Jude, they have alibrary book sale and a couple.
I found a couple really oldbooks and send them to mama Judy
one point, because she lovesthem so much and they were just
a couple dollars a piece.
But boy, I'm sure those wentinto a lot of your journals and
(43:38):
that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Well, I actually took a few pages, but I haven't used
them yet because I just want tohold them.
I'm kind of a weird obsession.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Well, wanda is at paper palace queen on Instagram,
so please go check herbeautiful work out.
And, wanda, congratulations onyour pieces being displayed in
that library next year.
That is what a beautiful.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, I tell you I can die happy.
I'm really pleased about that.
I'm so happy about that.
Yeah, and then.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
I will look forward to seeing on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, I might do a little video of the display
cabinet.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yes, you know, I would love to see the behind the
scenes of how you determinewhich ones you're going to take,
like if I could see like a pileof books and then how you
decide, or it'd be interestingto hear how you choose what you
choose, oh yeah, yeah, becausethere are different types of
books and being small and indisplay cabinets it's you know.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
luckily I've got different styles and I can show
the cover or maybe show thespine or maybe show, you know,
the concertina ones.
They can just fan out, so itwill look very pleasing in its
grungy colors.
I'm sure as long as they don'tgive me a pink organ cloth, it's
not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Bring your spray paint.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I have to do something.
Yeah, thank you for joining us,wanda.
We really appreciate you somuch.
It's been wonderful, it's beenreally really wonderful.
And thanks for being friendswith Wanda.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Thank you both.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Thank you, and thank you everyone for listening.
We appreciate it.
We'd love it if you'd sharethis podcast episode with people
and if you are listening to it,we also have this on YouTube.
You'll be able to see part ofWanda's studio, behind her in
the background.
She did mention beforehand thata lot of what she does is kind
of in front of her that we can'tsee, but you'll probably see
that if you follow her onInstagram.
So, thank you, and we will talkto you all next week.
(45:46):
Thanks so much.
Bye.
Love you, mama Judy.
Love you.
Bye, wanda.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
It's so great to see you, thank you, you too.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
You too, I'm looking forward to your new journals, ah
.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
I made me one just for energy, oh great.
Oh good, you made it.
We are so glad you're here.
Welcome to the Mama Judy andJill podcast, an
intergenerational chat aboutlife, art and the creative
process.
I'm your host, jill, andjoining me is my wonderful
co-host and bonus mom, mama Judy.
Let's get started.
Welcome back.
(00:21):
Today.
We have a really exciting guestwith us.
Her name is once, and I'm goingto let her introduce herself in
a moment here.
But first of all, the topicthat we're talking about today
is a little bit around socialmedia and using social media as
a creative.
So that is where we've askedWanda to come on and speak her
experience and all that.
But first of all, welcome,wanda, thank you.
(00:43):
Thank you for coming and justgive us, give our audience, a
little idea about where you live, what you do, both creatively
as well as if you have anoutside job, and just tell us a
little bit about your Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, I live.
Well, I say, at the moment.
I've lived in Bath for nearly10 years.
It's a Georgian city inSomerset, an hour and a half
from London.
But I hail from Londonoriginally, so I live here in a
little Georgian houseoverlooking the city of Bath.
I see the abbey out of mywindow and it's a wonderful
(01:16):
setup in my studio space and Iwork pretty much full time as an
artist.
Can't believe I'm actuallysaying that, but yes, I would
say it's a full time endeavourreally.
I was lucky to take earlyretirement, which allows freed
up time for me to pursue what isactually quite a new avenue for
(01:41):
me.
I'm not an I can't sort of giveyou a story about.
Oh, I've been.
I came out of the room with apaintbrush in my hand, or glue
or a paint box.
I came to this creative side ofmyself actually very, very only
in the last year and a half.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Wow very good.
Excellent story.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well, and tell me also so you're now
professionally like this is whatyou do as an artist, and so
what does that look like?
Do people commission you or doyou sell things on Etsy or like
how does that I?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
could sell a lot.
But I'm one of Do you know what?
I find it actually really hardto part with things, and I think
it's because they're one-offs.
I thought that I'd lost a bookthat I was very fond of and I
was so upset the fact that Ithought I'd lost it, that and
then I was reunited with it.
That kind of made me feel likeI'm actually not very good at
selling anything, but that Imean, if I did, I think that
(02:40):
there would be some demand.
Because I'm again on socialmedia, I get asked quite often
do you sell your work?
Will you sell me this book?
Could you?
Can I commission?
So I do get asked that a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
And you know, wanda, that'll come, maybe and maybe
not.
It'll come when the time isright.
And you know what, keep them.
If you want to have them buriedwith you, who cares?
It's really about what you want.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, well, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it's a very it's an oddthing because I, oh, I did a
giveaway, though on social mediaI did, and that was wonderful.
I actually really enjoyed that.
So I think I'd rather give themaway than sort of sell them.
(03:34):
You know, I like to dogiveaways.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, wanda on social media is Paper Palace Queen
Paper Palace Queen.
You can find her on Instagram.
If you're not already followingher, probably a lot of our
listeners are already followingyou, but tell anyone that's
listening.
What type of art do you do?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Well, how did it come about?
It's really strange.
Well, what I do now is Ipredominantly work in book form.
That's where my passion liesand that stems back to early
childhood of having a love allof my life of books, of reading,
of handling the object.
(04:11):
I was utterly fascinated withthat.
So it's not a surprise to methat my work takes that form At
the moment.
It's still quite traditional ina book format, but I am looking
at ways of trying to expandunder the umbrella of book and
what I can produce creatively.
So it's.
I mean, I'm still a youngartist.
(04:33):
I mean I'm not young, young,but as far as my artistic side
is concerned, it came aboutthrough social media.
Isn't that extraordinary?
I mean, that's how it cameabout.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Wow, yeah, okay.
So, wanda, I got started insocial media way back when I was
doing jewelry, and it was Jillthat got me started, because I'd
never done anything like that.
Put yourself out like that.
So I'm very curious how youcame about, how your art came
(05:08):
about through social media.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, Well, it was in the evenings, you know, trying
to find something to relax thelast half an hour before you go
to sleep, and I would findmyself watching.
It wasn't Instagram then it wasYouTube, and I would kind of
watch these videos of peoplekind of creating not the type of
(05:30):
work that I do, because Iwasn't seeing that on YouTube,
but just playing around withcollage, you know, watching
people do collage or art videosin general, and I was just happy
to watch them for quite sometime.
It didn't go over to the fact,oh, I must give that a go,
because up until that point Inever thought I I've got an
(05:52):
ascetic eye, I've always hadthat.
But I'm always asked all mylife are you an artist?
It's the first thing people ask.
I think it's the way I dress,the way I look, I don't know.
And I would turn around and sayto them oh, I can't draw.
No, I'm not an artist.
And I was limiting, limiting artto not being able to paint or
(06:13):
draw, or really kind of narrowreally.
And so I would say, no, I'm not.
So it's yeah.
I mean, if it wasn't forYouTube or social media, I
wouldn't.
When I got onto Instagram, thatcompletely blew my mind.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So what was your, your first post?
What made you make that veryWell?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I was.
I had been creating every dayfor about eight, six to eight
months before I I never occurredto me to put my work on
Instagram at all.
I had no social media presence.
I don't have Facebook.
I mean, I've asked all the timedo I have a YouTube channel?
I don't have a YouTube channelat the moment and it was family
members who saw my work and saidyou know, why don't you, why
(06:58):
don't you put this on Instagram?
And when they, they kind ofsold it to me on the idea that
actually it can be a digitalarchive, and it's absolutely
true that.
But I must stress that for me, adigital archive is wonderful,
but it will never, ever for me,take the place of the original
object for me.
So it but it's wonderful tolook, scroll through your feed
(07:23):
and, wow, do I like certaincolors?
And it's blatantly obvious whenI, when I look through and I
you know you're not going to seeshocking baby pink anywhere
soon, no, you know.
Or yellow, I mean, it's allvery it's, it's where I'm, I'm,
I'm just drawn to certain colors.
So that's interesting.
But I think it's wonderful as a, as an archive.
(07:45):
I think that's one of thebenefits.
There are many benefits toInstagram, actually, but I think
that that is a good one, so youcan have your things there for
all time.
So God forbid if you losesomething but it.
For me it's not quite the sameas seeing.
I don't think it ever is.
I think it's maybe, and I haveto say that sometimes when I
(08:06):
post something, I post the mostwhat I think is the most
wonderful thing.
It's probably one of myfavorites and it doesn't
translate.
Sometimes a work just doesn'ttranslate to the audience on 2D
yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yes, yeah, I'll tell you what I love Like today, the
posts that you had out there.
The little itty bitty one.
What are they?
Like?
An inch and a half by two, myGod, how do you even see those
to be able to?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
make.
I always work in miniature.
I mean, six by four ishumongous for me, really.
That's.
That's quite.
Anything bigger than seven byfive would be pretty.
I have done books at seven byfive, but my, there's something
about even though they're sosmall, they're almost dual, like
they're almost.
(09:01):
Oh, you know, I find thelayering techniques much easier
for me when they're smaller theyare.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
You do a great job of layering Wanda.
For anybody listening or evenwatching, I highly recommend
that they follow.
I mean, your work is wonderful,your story is wonderful.
In fact, your story is touchedupon two or three things that in
the past we've talked about howyou get to become an artist,
(09:31):
how you accidentally fall intoit.
And I have to say I don't knowanyone I follow who uses
Instagram to the extent that youdo Really.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Well, you use.
Oh, I think the problem is I'veset myself up for a bit of a.
I post daily and the problemwith that is that it's a.
You know, if I don't I mean Ihave so much work that I could
put on, you know, I'm three orfour or five books in advance of
what I'm putting on.
So it's not as if what you seetoday is what I've created right
(10:08):
at this minute.
So I'm not sort of stuck forthings to put on.
But you know, I do post once aday.
I do stories a lot.
But yes, you're right, I dopost once a day.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, Well then you Well, you use live You've gone
live before you use reels youuse stories, you make comments
in the direct messaging area.
So I mean, you really do useInstagram, work it To the
(10:40):
fullest.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I do, but you know what?
There are so many artists thatI love that actually, I mean, I
don't really get involved in anyediting techniques or anything
like that, so there's a lot thatI don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Well, number one.
I think that's great becausesometimes when you get into the
editing, that's just going totake up more time and sometimes
that can be more stressful for aperson.
But, wanda, I was going to saywhen Mama Judy was saying how
intentional you are aboutposting and you post every day
and you do these differentthings.
One thing you mentioned wasthat you're not posting what
(11:21):
you're working on that time,which I think a lot of artists
do.
But I work my paid job is for acompany that does a lot of
digital marketing and onlinemarketing and social media and
that sort of thing, so I knowwhat it looks like for people to
do it right, and I don't do itright on my own art account
because this is more fun for me.
(11:41):
But one thing that you saidthat's very helpful for an
artist if they did want to bemore prolific or just to be able
to post more is to use thingsthat you've created in the past,
so that you're not feeling thatstress of I have to post
something.
Today.
I committed to myself that Iwant to post.
I have to have something.
You're in this place where youcan just post things that you
already have, so it makes iteasier on you, naturally,
(12:03):
because when you start feelinglike it's this big chore to be
posting and have to createsomething for that intention it
makes.
Yeah, that would be too much.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I would say that everything I post I love.
I would never put anything onfor the sake of putting it on.
Everything I put on, there's alot I don't put on because it
hasn't quite reached what I, forme, my.
If I'm happy with it, then itgoes on.
(12:33):
So I tell back things and, forexample, I think about a week
ago I put on a book which hasdone incredibly well and I sat
on it for months because Ithought you know what?
No, no, no, it just doesn'tfeel right for me, but I would
urge everyone to.
I think Instagram is one of itspluses.
Any negatives that there areout there are far outweighed by
(12:57):
the positives, for me for sure.
I think initially, at the veryearly stages of Instagram, I was
very hooked on going on a lotand checking how many likes or
what was going on and all ofthat.
I mean I don't really do thatnow, although occasionally I
note.
I mean, if your audiencedoesn't like it, you know the
likes go down.
(13:18):
I mean there's no doubt aboutthat and it always happens on
the work.
That, I think, is the best.
So that's kind of interestingWell but there's also the
algorithm.
There's also an algorithm.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
We can't help and that could be something that
just did not appear in people'sfeeds and you can't help it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
But the community aspect.
I mean I'm in touch with awonderful artist in Australia.
We speak once a week.
There's somebody in Germany whoI love, so I mean that side has
been absolutely amazing.
I never thought at all thatthere would be this sort of back
.
And the comments I mean thecomments are just so wonderful
(13:58):
that people take.
I mean I'm just so surprisedthat people take the time to
look at your work and thencomment on it as well, and some
of the comments are just notthat I'm trying to beef myself
up, but some of the comments arejust just really wonderful how
they find my work inspirational.
Because I'm looking.
(14:19):
If you, for example, are havinga day when you just have no
ideas and you just go to yourdesk and you say, oh, that's
just nothing, it's working, Imean all I need to do is go to
turn on Instagram and look atmaybe some artists I'm following
and I'm completely, and thenI'm inundating.
My mind is just too much, it'sgone, it goes the other way.
(14:39):
So it's like having your own.
It's like going to an artgallery, actually, and you have
your own art gallery as well ifyou want to post.
So it's two way street.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I think it's wonderful.
It's a great description.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
It is, and do you all both have?
You know how you can save posts.
I have like an inspiration filethat just certain things that
really get to me.
I'll, you know, save it andsometimes I will just go back
and scroll through those just toget some inspiration on
something I'm working on.
Do you also do that one day?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
I don't have a specific place where I put them
all.
I mean I there are certainartists that I follow and and
look at their work.
I mean there's lots of artiststhat I love.
It's not what I do, but Iabsolutely love what they do as
well, but I know there's so much, there's so much inspiration
out there.
I mean that the net.
When I say the negative side ofsocial media, I think it's more.
(15:37):
It's not from other people,it's, it's how it's.
I think you have to let go ofhaving an expectation of.
I think, as long as you'rehappy with what you've put up
and and it's, then you just haveto let it go out in the world
and if it doesn't get many likes, that's absolutely fine as well
.
So it's.
I think in the early days, Iwas always a little bit or maybe
(15:59):
I'm not, as you know, it's notgoing but I've given all of that
up.
Now it's more about.
I mean this is an interestingquestion and I'm not going to
say the artists who actuallysaid this to me, but we were
talking about the creating andputting posts up and and I said
well, if you Didn't post onInstagram, would you still
(16:19):
create?
I mean, would you still and sheactually said no, hmm.
So so I think it's I mean,maybe some people, it's the
Instagram side, maybe moreimportant.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Accountable.
Is that why she said I wouldn't, because I just wouldn't make
time for it?
Or is it that she?
No, it's just more.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I think it's it's become quite a large part of
where, for me, it's I, I mean, Iwas creating before Instagram,
so I would just carry on.
You're creating, you know I Imean, if I don't come into the
studio on a daily basis, I Ifeel a little bit you know, I'm
not always happy with what I'mdoing here, but I have to come
in here.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yes, yes, no, totally understand.
Yeah, and I'm with you.
You know it wouldn't.
I was creating years beforethere was even Etsy.
So I Look at Instagram andsocial media.
I get excited when I dosomething that I really like,
(17:15):
and it's like a little childthat you know makes that drawing
in the first grade and theywant to take it home and share
it with everybody becausethey're so excited about it.
That's the way I've alwayslooked at Instagram is just the
way to share Whatever.
It is good, bad, nuggly.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well, and also for you, Mama Judy, while it's not
your full-time thing, but you dolike to release your things out
into the world, and so you havean Etsy store.
So that's a little bitdifferent, but it does help on
social media because you'll putup something for sale in Etsy
and it's sold in an hour or halfan hour or whatever I mean a
lot of times.
So that is a benefit forartists that do want to release
(17:56):
their things out into the world,to have that as a Platform
where people like people areasking Wanda, when can I get one
of your pieces?
So the minute you're ready todo that, if you wanted to, that
you know your community is rightthere, ready to be your
customers.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I have to get on a different type of hat, because
it's a really odd thing.
I just some reason I can't seemto let them go.
But I, you know, I do likedoing the giveaways.
I've thought that was such fun,so I'll probably do another one
of those.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Well, and and that's a way of letting one go, wanda
and the rest I just happen tohave a different viewpoint.
When I make something, I getexcited For it to find who it
belongs to, and I literally evenwhen I did my jewelry that's
the way I looked at it wasthere's somebody I'm creating
(18:48):
this for, and so by doing that,I think I only have two of my
early journals that I kept, wow,and I look at them periodically
and go, oh, are they ready tofind a new home?
And they always tell me no.
So those two will probably staywith me and they're nothing
(19:11):
special.
I think it was just where I wasat the time that I was
communicating through my art,and so I was communicating for
myself.
Now I just put another one outthat I finished, and so I can
(19:33):
move on, wanda, to one that hasour Brungie colors.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I got rid of the.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Wanda and I like the same face colors.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean.
The thing is, though, I need tofind a cabinet to house all of
these books.
This is the other thing.
I mean they do take up, I mean,even though they're tiny.
I mean, you know, and the thingis that You're right, I mean,
once I finished a book, I I havemoved on.
So, you know and I, they justpile up.
For me it is about the process,it's not the end.
(20:10):
I mean it's all about theprocess and the space within.
You know how that comes about.
So once they're finished, I dolook at them occasionally, but
not really Very often.
But yeah, maybe I'll have tohave a little think about
Letting letting some go I'll seehow, see how it goes.
I mean, it's all about theprocess.
I have such fun Creating them Ireally do and just exploring.
(20:33):
You know and it's like an everyartist.
I mean, I can't believe Iactually say I'm an artist.
Now, you know it's such a kindof thing because it's telling
you all of this.
I've only been on Instagram,let's not forget since January.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, of this year, yeah, wow.
I do have a couple of specificquestions to Instagram, but I
also wanted it.
It would be kind of neat if youever wanted to have a show of
your books, like you know, ifit's locally or even if you did
it online.
When I know me, I am, I am, oh,you are tell us about it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Well, I was invited by the.
Well, actually, you know, Ithink this is more.
I'm actually so chuffed aboutthis because it's better that
for me it's better than agallery.
They're going to give me somedisplay cases in the public
library because for me, that'sactually my love of books
stemmed as a child, you know,going into the little children's
section of my local library andso to have my books on display
(21:30):
in various ways, in displaycabinets, because they're so
tiny, in a public library whereyou know you're going to get
more foot, for you're going toget more people looking at them
for a start, and in a kind of agallery setting where maybe a
lot of people feel that's kindof environments not for them
anyway.
So I mean, I'm just so chuffedabout that.
I'm just so chuffed about thatthat's happening next year.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Oh good, and I hope you'll share that on social
media, because that will be fun.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
That's fun how that goes out.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yes, and you know, I'll bet Wanda that if you took
a picture of where your littlebooks are housed right now, just
that picture of all your littlebooks would be a piece of art.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
You know, they're all just stacked together.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
That does help yeah well, I did put on.
I did put a post up showing, Ithink, nine or 10 in a frame in
close up, but you're absolutelyoh, yeah, if I piled them all up
.
I think I've done that severaltimes.
I think I have done that.
But yeah, I mean, I can alwaysdo it.
Yeah, I love layers, layers andlayers and layers.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Oh okay, speaking of layers, I have a question about
your tools.
So, because you work currentlyin such small pieces, do you
have like tweezer type tools ordo you just I'm actually holding
them, I'm actually holding them.
It's just bog standard tweezers.
Okay, wow, with a small likethat, and are you using those
for a lot of what you're doing,those tweezers?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yes, I mean, I used to use a different type.
I prefer these.
I don't know where the idea ofworking so small came about.
I have no idea.
It just seems to be what I like.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
You know the other thing about Instagram, one that,
when you were talking about itbeing like an archive, it'll
also show you the progression inyour art as you.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
That's embarrassing, yeah, well, you know, no, well,
actually I say that you knowwhat.
There was a really famouswriter, an American writer, and
she writes a novel every 10years.
She's really well known, verypetite little birdlike woman.
Anyway, she writes a book every10 years and she was saying
that when in her latest novelshe wrote about 50,000 words and
(23:43):
realized that they were all amistake.
But in order for her to get thebook out, what she wanted to
get out, she had to write those50,000 words.
So they weren't a mistake, theyjust didn't end up in the
finished piece.
So when I look at my old work,my very old work, I mean, and I
look at it now it's so farremoved from even though it's
not that long ago.
(24:04):
It's so far removed from how Iam now.
But then I think, well,actually, if it wasn't for that
type of work, I wouldn't havebeen able to progress to where I
am now.
That's for sure.
That's part of their process.
Yeah, but I have thought thatsome of the older posts, I'm not
(24:29):
sure how I feel about themanymore really.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Well, I feel I hope, like me, speaking from my
perspective, I'm like I hopethose little pieces are honored
for those images, because theywere like the baby artist of you
is coming out, and so I justfeel like they have a place of
honor, even if you look at them,though, and you're like, ooh, I
don't like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, I think a lot of artists I mean even I'm sure
even Rembrandt didn't like hissketches there was no, I mean I
think a lot of artists that theydid kind of their early work,
they think, ooh, I'm not sureabout that.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
But, yeah, what does your Instagram?
What are you?
So?
You said you post daily.
So what does that look like foryou?
Do you spend like morning timeor is it kind of all over the
place?
Are you more organized about itand do it within an hour?
No, I do it first thing.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Okay, lying in bed when I get up first thing, I
know what I'm gonna put on,because I've decided the night
before.
And so I don't want to sort of,you know, early in the morning,
think about what I'm gonna puton.
I know what I'm putting on andyou know there's a little
thought process about, oh,should I go this?
You know that kind of thing,should I?
Would it be better to have itlike this?
(25:38):
Like the questions I might askare oh well, that one's a little
bit like the one I've justposted the day before.
Shall I change it?
I mean those kinds of thingsmaybe think about.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, and so the night before do you usually only
have just the next days, or doyou sometimes jot down three or
four days in a row?
Or are you waking up?
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I mean, sometimes I've been working on something
and I'm super excited that I'llactually post that the following
day because I love it so much.
I don't want to wait.
You know not in the queuingsystem, but I mean it depends
what I'm.
I mean I've got differentstyles going on at the moment,
so I kind of do a couple of oneand then I might do, you know, a
couple of the botanical typebooks, but the one consistency
(26:22):
is the color for sure.
And the grungy, the grungy, youknow, look.
Yeah, the grungy I mean.
I sometimes say to friends oh,I put my books on the back of
the car and drive it and justlet them dangle on the road.
That's the kind of looking for.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I might try that.
Yeah, that's a good idea Runover it for a two or three times
.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Exactly, I'm sure someone's done it, I'm sure they
have, you know.
But Instagram I mean, even forcourses.
I remember in one of your olderpodcasts you mentioned that
you've signed up for coursesthat you actually haven't got
round to doing them.
But I think that I've done somewonderful courses that have
(27:09):
been truly inspiring.
And I don't act on themimmediately though I don't work
like that it goes in and itfesters and I think oh, oh, and
there's a lot of collating.
You know you've got to putthings together, so it's, I do
love watching them.
So on Instagram, you knowthere's lots of artists who do
courses, and so I thinkInstagram social media is great
(27:32):
for artists.
I'm trying to think of other,any negatives?
Speaker 3 (27:37):
I you know.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
The only negative that I could think of Wanda is,
like you said, if it becomessomething that people are more
concerned with the outcome, thenit can that can be a little bit
of a negative, yeah, in myopinion because you change what
you do, because if you the thingis, if you have an audience in
(27:57):
mind, you're, you know you're,maybe you know you're thinking
about pleasing them or they lovethis, so, oh, I'm going to do
more of that Because that's sopopular, then that just wouldn't
work for me.
I mean, I just I do what I doand I post what I post and I'm
so grateful that people seem tolike it.
(28:19):
You know, I never thought that,I never thought I'd have 2000
followers in 10 months, ninemonths.
That never even entered my head, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Extraordinary, really .
And not only followers, but youhave a very engaged following.
That's more important thananything.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Absolutely, I do.
You're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right, I do.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Because I've seen people that have 100,000
following and they don't have asmany comments as you do, or
even Mama Judy does Sometimes.
You both have Mama Judy also asa very engaged audience.
But I think you beingconsistent, your work being so
beautiful to look at and thewords that you pair up with what
you say like all of thattogether, I know, is helping to
(29:02):
push your thing out in thealgorithm.
I think consistency is a bigthing, even if you say you post
every day.
But even if someone justdecides three days a week, I'm
going to post to keep consistent.
I've heard anyway that thealgorithm is going to be that
consistent.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, consistency is key, maybe consistency is key,
but yeah, I mean I'm just soblown away by some of the
comments.
I mean I remember very briefly,I put this on this was a little
box that I produced with littlein honor of my grandfather and
I put these attribute cards andthe comments I got.
(29:39):
I must have got 50, 60 commentsI don't know how many sort of
saying how wonderful that theythought the idea was and they
even spoke about my grandfatherand I gave some background of my
grandfather.
I was really moved by that,that people actually took the
time not just to look at, youknow, because people do.
I mean they read what you say.
You know when you write theyare actually reading it as well,
(30:01):
because I often get comments,you know.
Oh, and sometimes I hide what Ido.
Sometimes I like to hide thingsin my post and I've got some
followers who actually like totry and find what I've hidden.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Oh great, I'm excited to start looking for these
things.
Okay, do you want to give anyhints as to what you're hiding,
or is that just for whoeverwants to go take a look to
figure it out for themselves?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, it just depends on each.
In each book I kind of made, Imay hide a little rusty safety
pin that's just kind of peekingout, or a little face, or I'm
obsessed with circles.
I always have been obsessedwith circles, so there's always
a lot of circles and they're agreat blaring technique.
So I use a lot of circles.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, well, so curious, and you've kind of said
some of this as we've got along.
But what would you say ifsomeone's listening and they're
looking to you and they'resaying, okay, I'll try to be
consistent.
Content is obviously the workthat you put out there.
If someone doesn't have goodcontent or if they're not
spending any time at leastputting some sort of thought out
(31:10):
there or something, people maynot be drawn to them.
But are there any othersuggestions you would say to
someone who is saying, okay, howcan I get an engaged following
like you have?
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well, I think you I mean, yeah, you don't have to
post every day, for sure, butalso be engaged with your
followers.
I always actually more recentlynow I actually generally thank
everyone who send them a littlethank you, because I think, it's
just wonderful that they takethe time to actually, you know,
(31:42):
send a comment.
So I always sort of say thankyou, or if they've asked a
question I reply to it.
But just I would sort of say,try it, you know, but then don't
sort of.
It can't be the be all and endall.
You know.
You've just got to do what youwant to do and not be.
If you're kind of an artistwho's just starting and you're
not sure about your work, youknow you can't please everybody.
(32:04):
So I think what's reallyimportant is that you, what
you're putting on you're happywith, first and foremost, and if
others like it too, you know,that's absolutely wonderful.
And I think artists, they'reall very supportive of each
other.
Anyway, in general, yes, yes,sorry yeah.
(32:25):
And you know, although it'swonderful, you don't just get
artists who follow.
I mean, you get followers ofother types of followers as well
.
You know just artists.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Yep, and you know, wanda.
Going back to what you saidabout you only post what you
like.
If you get away from that, ifyou post for the audience, you
are no longer authentic becauseyou're not doing it for yourself
.
So the way you've done it inyour heart is authentic.
(32:58):
That's you.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, as I said, severalbooks I've put on haven't done
as well, who knows why, but Imean, for me I absolutely adore
them.
They're probably my favoriteones.
So it's.
And also I'm aware thatsometimes you know a piece of
art doesn't translate well.
Maybe you know the angle's notright or maybe things often,
sometimes because you knowyou're only seeing it's not the
(33:21):
same as seeing it in front ofyou or on the wall.
But I think it's great forartists because we can all have
our own little gallery.
It's like having your owngallery really.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
It is your own tribe.
Yeah, exactly, and that's sad,and I know I'll use the word
community in case there'ssomebody who doesn't like the
word tribe.
But it's a like-minded groupand you get support from it and
that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I mean you could spend all day, just you know.
I mean you kind of have to timeit because otherwise you could
spend so much time looking atthat you wouldn't get any work
done, you know.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
But I just pop on.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I'm consistent.
I just sort of pop on, maybefor five, 10 minutes, and I you
know, and most people post atthe same time.
I've noticed that people postat the same time.
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I think well, you see , there's so many.
I mean, there's so manydifferent types of accounts,
isn't there on Instagram?
So, depending on what type, Ijust have the box, standard,
basic one.
So I don't prerecord or settimers.
You know, something goes on asand when, but it's generally the
same time every day.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
More or less.
I didn't even know there weredifferent levels of Instagram.
See, that tells you how basic.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I am, yeah, you could , oh my God.
Well, for example, I have anartist friend who posts
regularly and she has adifferent type of account, so I
think they call it a contentaccount, a content creator
account, and this is reallygeared up for people who want to
know the statistics about who'slooking at your work.
You go all the through thestats, which I'm not really that
(34:59):
interested in because it willtake away from the work.
I mean, that's a whole notherarea that was gonna take up a
lot of brain activity and that'snot really where you know,
trying to get your art out thereto even more people.
If you want to be a contentcreator, there's a certain type
of account where you can gobehind the scenes and seeing
(35:20):
what type of people arefollowing you, who is
unfollowing you, who is you knowall of that.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
When your audience is online, different things.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, so it's interesting, but it would just
take away from doing the work inthe first place for me.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Well, and Mama Judy, I will ask you also, because you
have over a couple of thousandpeople as well, and our newer to
Instagram and posting and thattype of thing, what do you have
any suggestions so you don't doyou post every single day?
You're pretty close to it,wouldn't?
Speaker 3 (35:55):
you say I'm not as consistent as Wanda is, and
actually I have nothing more toadd than what Wanda has already
said, and one of the biggestthings is that she just said
just try it and don't get.
It is not a popularity contest.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
No.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
And if you go down that rabbit hole, you're to me,
you're on there for the wrongreasons.
Yeah, I like so what Wanda andI are both doing and oh, trust
me, trust me 100%.
My little ego loves it whensomebody likes my work.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Absolutely, I think everybody know, judy, I think I
mean everyone likes their workto be validated in some way, to
feel that it's.
But it comes a point where youhave to kind of I think that the
I think we are our own harshestcritics as well.
You know, I think that we are.
This is the problem, really.
I think I think you have to getback to if you are happy.
(36:57):
If you look at the piece ofwork you've created, you go, oh
my god, I mean my heart.
It's almost like I've taken acaffeine pill or something.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
I get a high.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I get a high from a piece of work that I look at and
I think, oh my god, I just lovethis so much.
I love it when you get thatnatural high.
I don't know where that comesfrom, but it's.
You know.
Sometimes I get that when Ireally and I look at it, I think
I actually do that.
How did I do that?
I didn't know how it came about.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Okay, I'm going to tell a story on myself which is
kind of goes back to what Wandawas talking about.
I go to Pinterest forinspiration and I'm looking at
this piece of work it's ajournal and I just love it and
I'm going God, I just love it.
I looked down and it was my own.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
So funny.
Yeah, you're your biggest fan,why not?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Oh.
So what I did?
I made a separate.
You know how, on Pinterest youcan have a what do they call it?
A book or whatever, and you canmake some books.
So I have one called mixedmedia and I put everybody else's
work.
Then I have a sub chapterthat's called my journals and,
(38:23):
honestly, because I'm like youwanted, there will be times I'll
create and it'll be like I wasnot present while I was creating
, because then I'll look at itand go when did that come from?
So I put them all out onPinterest now where, when I need
(38:43):
inspiration, I might find someinspiration in some of my former
pages that came out ofsomewhere that I wasn't even
aware they were coming out.
I'm like you I look atsomething and go, oh my God, I
did that and you get a naturalhigh.
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, it's so fun.
Well, and isn't it neat to that, wanda and myself to, you've
come to being this creative,artistic type person not that
long ago in your life and yourgrown up.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
It's amazing that it came about, jill, at a time when
I was able to do it as well.
Yes, I mean I it's funnybecause you often hear about
artists who you know sort of, orthey've started very early and
you know they've, they've alwaysknow what they wanted to do.
I mean my, my whole kind oflife, work, life, has been a
(39:39):
completely different genres, socertainly not artistic really,
but it's interesting that itcame about at a time that I was
able to give it attention andit's all come together and I'm
just so happy it's in book formbecause that's where my you know
books.
As a young child I had a verydifficult upbringing and books
was where I could go to escapeand to absolutely my very early
(40:02):
I mean I it's really strangethat when I was very young I had
a project on the go I was ayoung, I mean this days before
Internet was none of that andI'd have to send off for things.
That was almost a bit like ascrapbook, but it was more than
a scrapbook, and so that I wasdoing layering, I was doing, and
it's extraordinary.
I thought about it the otherday and I think why did this
(40:24):
idea come for doing books?
And it actually stems back tothat very small child who had
that.
I had that project on the go andsort of yeah, I did a project
on Italy and then I narrowed itdown to Rome and I wanted to
learn everything.
And I was six and seven, I wantto know everything about Rome
and I speak Italian, would youbelieve it went on.
(40:46):
I went to live in Italy for 12years.
So you know, it all comeswonderful, it all comes about,
but those techniques I think Iwas actually doing and then they
lay dormant for decades.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
You still have that.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
You still have that little book from when you were
little one.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Unfortunately I don't .
If I do, you know what?
If I could give up everythingto see that little book again?
Me too, I don't know whathappened to that.
Great shame.
Great shame, there it is.
If there was Instagram, then Icould have put it on, you see,
and I know, I know, you knowwonder.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
When I was in the first grade, I used to write my
own books.
I have a container full ofbooks.
You know how.
You'd write them in a peachytype of container.
They were all about horses,they were.
I was always the heroine.
(41:42):
When you were talking aboutdoing books and turning it back
to your love of books as a child, it, the little aha moment went
on and I went.
Well, maybe that's why I lovethese odd books not just mine,
but that everybody's doingbecause I'm like you.
(42:03):
Reading was my solace when Iwas growing up.
It's where I could build myimagination, and now that
imagination is creating its ownform of books, and that's a
complete circle.
It's a wonderful circle.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yes, and like when one of them went to live in
Italy, you ended up owning ahorse.
You know some of the thingsthat also pages.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Right, yeah, yeah, books are their companions
really.
I mean, they really they reallyare, I mean, and it was also.
It was about the smell of books, it was about the, you know,
the holding of the object.
It was.
I mean, I would prefer to holda book as a child than a teddy
bear, really.
So they were, they were kind ofplaces you could just escape to
(42:53):
, and yeah, I just and.
I still do.
I mean, my house is full ofbooks, but they're all artists,
they're all my monographs.
Generally I don't really readfiction, but yeah, loads of
books everywhere.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yeah, same here.
In fact, I go buy them just tohold them and look at them.
Old books.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Oh yeah, you need an old bookstore and yes.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Well, you know, I have a library real close to me
and I go just sit in the library, even if I want to go read a
newspaper or something I justlike being in a library to.
And mama Jude, they have alibrary book sale and a couple.
I found a couple really oldbooks and send them to mama Judy
one point, because she lovesthem so much and they were just
a couple dollars a piece.
But boy, I'm sure those wentinto a lot of your journals and
(43:38):
that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Well, I actually took a few pages, but I haven't used
them yet because I just want tohold them.
I'm kind of a weird obsession.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Well, wanda is at paper palace queen on Instagram,
so please go check herbeautiful work out.
And, wanda, congratulations onyour pieces being displayed in
that library next year.
That is what a beautiful.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, I tell you I can die happy.
I'm really pleased about that.
I'm so happy about that.
Yeah, and then.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
I will look forward to seeing on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, I might do a little video of the display
cabinet.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yes, you know, I would love to see the behind the
scenes of how you determinewhich ones you're going to take,
like if I could see like a pileof books and then how you
decide, or it'd be interestingto hear how you choose what you
choose, oh yeah, yeah, becausethere are different types of
books and being small and indisplay cabinets it's you know.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
luckily I've got different styles and I can show
the cover or maybe show thespine or maybe show, you know,
the concertina ones.
They can just fan out, so itwill look very pleasing in its
grungy colors.
I'm sure as long as they don'tgive me a pink organ cloth, it's
not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Bring your spray paint.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I have to do something.
Yeah, thank you for joining us,wanda.
We really appreciate you somuch.
It's been wonderful, it's beenreally really wonderful.
And thanks for being friendswith Wanda.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Thank you both.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Thank you, and thank you everyone for listening.
We appreciate it.
We'd love it if you'd sharethis podcast episode with people
and if you are listening to it,we also have this on YouTube.
You'll be able to see part ofWanda's studio, behind her in
the background.
She did mention beforehand thata lot of what she does is kind
of in front of her that we can'tsee, but you'll probably see
that if you follow her onInstagram.
So, thank you, and we will talkto you all next week.
(45:46):
Thanks so much.
Bye.
Love you, mama Judy.
Love you.
Bye, wanda.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
It's so great to see you, thank you, you too.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
You too, I'm looking forward to your new journals, ah
.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
I made me one just for energy, oh great.
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