January 24, 2024 • 23 mins
Ever wondered about the invisible threads that weave together the fabric of an organization? Today, we unravel those threads, traversing the labyrinth of Organizational Behavior (OB). Our journey maps out the bustling marketplace model, which aptly portrays an organization's vibrant dynamics, showcasing a myriad of roles and personalities that foster its spirited energy. We also delve into the three entwined strata of OB, namely individual, interpersonal, and organizational, decoding their impact on the structure, culture, and performance of an organization.
What's more? We're also joined by neuroscience maestro, Ryan McCreedy. Ryan brings his expertise on the table, illuminating the intricate interplay between the psychological and neuroscientific aspects of OB. The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we discuss topics ranging from the role of network density to the growing mental complexity of AI. Wrapping up our session, we dissect the success of Cirque du Soleil, attributing it to their innovative, risk-taking, communicative, and collaborative organizational culture. Tune in for an enlightening exploration of the world of OB and its transformative imprint on modern organizations.
Ryan T. W. McCreedy [Guest], is a Leadership and Organizational Psychology scholar-practitioner based in Cambridge, Massachusetts, dedicated to creating inclusive, equitable workforces and economic systems. He works as a Principal Organizational Effectiveness Consultant at Slalom Consulting in Boston, focusing on talent and organizational development for Fortune 100 clients, and leads Slalom's global Leadership and Team Development capabilities. With a background in engineering and behavioral sciences, Ryan has contributed to transformative changes in various industries. He also engages in organizational behavior research and helps teach graduate courses at Harvard. Ryan holds several degrees, including a B.S. from George Mason University, an A.L.M from Harvard Extension School, and is pursuing a doctoral degree at William James College focusing in applications of neuroscience in workplaces. Beyond his professional life, he enjoys brewing beer, cooking, music, philosophical discussions, and traveling with his wife Hannah.
Travis C. Mallett [Host], received the Masters of Liberal Arts (ALM) in Management from Harvard University Extension School, where he has also earned Professional Graduate Certificates in both Organizational Behavior and Strategic Management. Travis previously received undergraduate degrees in Electrical Engineering, General Mathematics, and Music from Washington State University. He also served as an Engineering Manager at Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories, where he led a team responsible for developing and maintaining SEL's highest-selling product line. An innovative force in engineering, Travis holds numerous patents and has authored papers and books across diverse subjects. His passion for continuous learning and organizational excellence propels him to explore and illuminate the intricacies of management theories. Through his podcast, "The Management Theory Toolbox", he offers valuable insights on effective leadership, business innovation, and strategic methodologies.
Want to dive in even deeper? Visit the full show notes for this episode.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ryan McCreedy (00:01):
And so if we had enhanced connection, we actually
get more cross-functionalcollaboration, which then allows
us to come up with well, I havethis piece of the bubble, I
have this random piece of puzzlewhat if we MacGyver and put the
two together, that might justbe the big thing coming off, the
big challenge that we're facingright now, and happen without
connection.
Travis Mallett (00:20):
Welcome back to the Management Theory Toolbox,
where we systematically work ourway through modern management
theory concepts and continuallyadd to our management toolbox.
I'm your host, travis Mallett,and today we're diving head
first into one of thefoundational fields of
management theory the realm oforganizational behavior, or OB
(00:44):
for short.
So what exactly isorganizational behavior?
The definition is pretty simpleAn organizational behavior is
the study of how individuals andgroups behave and interact
within an organization.
That's it Done.
I'll say that again.
It's the study of howindividuals and groups behave
(01:09):
and interact within anorganization.
But you might think that thisis an extremely broad definition
.
It's kind of like asking aphysicist what is physics, only
to get the typical grandioseresponse Physics is the study of
everything, or at leasteverything in physical existence
(01:31):
.
Well, okay, thanks, but whatdoes that actually mean?
Are there any limitations toyour field of study?
Where does physics end andchemistry begin, and how do you
break down such a broad field ofstudy into manageable chunks?
We'll find that organizationalbehavior is similarly difficult
(01:51):
to nail down, define anddelineate clear boundaries.
So with that, let's startdeveloping an understanding of
what organizational behavior is.
Picture, if you will, anorganization as a vibrant
marketplace Not just anymarketplace but a sprawling
bazaar brimming with life and acolorful patchwork of stalls.
(02:15):
Each stall represents adifferent team within the
organization.
These could be sales, marketing, hr, customer service you name
it and each stall has a uniquerole, serving different purposes
and catering to variedclientele.
Now visualize the sellers ofthese stalls.
(02:36):
They're the employees of theorganization.
Each seller comes with a uniqueskill set, personality and
approach.
Some may be outgoing andcharismatic, enticing customers
with their energy.
Others might be more reservedbut highly meticulous, ensuring
every product or service ispresented flawlessly.
(02:58):
The diversity of these sellersbrings a dynamic energy to the
marketplace, mirroring the vastarray of talent within an
organization.
Moving on, let's think aboutthe customers in our bustling
bazaar.
They could be internalcustomers, such as other
departments needing assistance,or they could be external
(03:20):
customers who purchase theorganization's products or
services.
Their experience with thesellers, the atmosphere of the
marketplace and the quality ofthe goods they purchase all
impact their perception and, inturn, their loyalty.
Now, in our grand marketplace,the products or services sold at
(03:41):
the stalls symbolize the outputof the organization.
They could be anything fromcrafted goods to innovative
software solutions.
Their quality, innovation andrelevance to the customer's
needs can make or break thereputation of the marketplace.
The crucial element here is thebehavior, interactions and
(04:04):
attitudes of the sellers.
This is where organizationalbehavior, or OB, comes into play
.
Ob is like the unseen forcethat influences how sellers
interact with customers and eachother, their morale and their
performance.
For instance, if a seller isunmotivated, it could impact the
(04:25):
customer experience and thesales at the stall.
On the other hand, a motivatedand well-supported seller might
create a lively atmosphere andboost sales.
Ob seeks to understand theseinteractions, the effects of the
organization's structure andculture on its employees, and
optimize them.
(04:45):
The more we understand theseunseen forces, the more tools we
add to our management toolboxand the better we'll be able to
recognize the forces in ourworkplace, both in real time and
as we imagine and visualize thefuture and the consequences of
our strategic plans, managementtactics and structural decisions
(05:08):
.
Although many textbooks on OBbreak down the concepts into a
multitude of different topics,one way to understand the study
of OB involves looking at threeintertwined levels individual,
interpersonal and organizational.
At the individual level, welook at factors like one's
(05:30):
ability to learn, personalitytraits, motivation and personal
attitudes.
These characteristics shape howan individual performs within
the organization.
Moving on to the second level,the interpersonal level, we
focus on elements such asquality of leadership,
(05:51):
communication within and betweengroups and conflict management.
These elements are vitalbecause they determine how
individuals collaborate andinteract within the organization
, directly influencing theoverall team dynamics.
For instance, pixar AnimationStudios has created a culture
(06:14):
known for fosteringcollaboration and open
communication.
They have a ritual calleddailies, where animators come
together every day to review andprovide constructive feedback
on ongoing work.
This open and honestcommunication, coupled with
strong leadership, helps harnessthe individual talents towards
(06:37):
a collective goal, enhancing thecompany's creative output, and
it's an example of a managementtechnique that would be studied
at the interpersonal level inorganizational behavior.
Finally, at the organizationallevel, the structure and culture
of the organization play acrucial role.
These factors create theenvironment that allows
(07:00):
individuals and teams toflourish or, conversely, can
hinder their progress.
Think about the world-renownedCirque du Soleil.
You might think wait, isn'tthat a circus?
How does that relate toorganizational behavior?
And you're right.
It is a circus, but not justany circus.
It's a modern-day globalphenomenon that has completely
(07:24):
transformed the traditionalconcept of a circus, and it
offers us a fascinating casestudy for organizational
behavior.
Let's consider how it functions.
It's not just a group ofperformers, it's an organization
that involves a multitude ofteams performers, directors,
designers, technicians,marketers and more.
(07:45):
Each team plays a vital role increating the mesmerizing
performances that Cirque duSoleil is famous for.
Cirque du Soleil thrivesbecause it has built an
organizational culture thatencourages innovation and
risk-taking.
This is embodied in everyawe-inspiring acrobatic act that
(08:08):
pushes the boundaries of humanability and in every
unconventional performance thatmixes traditional circus arts
with theater, dance and music.
But it's not just about thespectacular shows Behind the
scenes, cirque du Soleilemphasizes the importance of
communication and collaboration.
(08:31):
Given the high-risk nature ofthe performances, trust and open
communication channels areparamount.
The organization has a flathierarchy which fosters a
culture of respect and openness,where everyone's input is
valued.
Moreover, cirque du Soleilprioritizes employee well-being
and satisfaction.
During the physically demandingnature of the performances, the
(08:54):
organization ensures performersare well cared for with the
provision of world-classtraining facilities,
physiotherapy and nutritionguidance.
This attention to employeewelfare not only ensures their
health, but also fosters astrong sense of loyalty and
belonging.
Cirque du Soleil, with itsunique approach, demonstrates
(09:17):
that focusing on organizationalculture, open communication and
employee well-being can createan environment that fosters
creativity, productivity andsatisfaction.
It's an unusual but brilliantexample of how the third level
of organizational behavior playsout in a non-traditional
business setting.
(09:37):
We'll probably revisit Cirquedu Soleil in a future episode
when we talk about strategicmanagement and the Blue Ocean
strategy, because it offers astellar example of
differentiation and valuecreation.
But for now, the key point isthat the third level of OB, the
organizational level, plays akey role in understanding and
(09:58):
optimizing the performance andin turn, the outcomes and
success of an organization.
If you've been with us on thisenlightening journey, you'll
know we always dig deeper thanthe surface narrative.
We don't just skim through thetextbook definitions.
Sure, it's true thatorganizational behavior refers
(10:21):
to the conduct of individualsand teams within organizations,
and yes, it's generallycategorized into three levels
individual, interpersonal andorganizational.
But isn't it curious howseamlessly it all fits?
After all, organizations aren'tjust static entities, they're
pulsating human systems, ofteneluding such neat
(10:45):
categorizations.
Remember our discussion inepisode two.
We likened organizations toneural networks, suggesting they
are expansive reflections ofour own minds.
And this raises a tantalizingquestion Do the three levels of
organizational behavior echosome intrinsic aspects of our
(11:07):
brains?
To unravel this intricate web,we have our neuroscience expert,
ryan McCready, joining us onceagain.
Ryan is a principalorganizational effectiveness
consultant, a teaching fellow atHarvard University and a
doctoral candidate at WilliamJames College, currently
studying how neuroscience isinforming leadership and
(11:28):
organizational behavior, toexamine what is known about
brain functions and the nervoussystem and applying this to
leadership and organizationalcontexts.
Welcome to the show, ryan Travis.
Thanks for having me back again.
It's my pleasure.
So we talked with you in aprevious episode about how
organizations are not justgeneric living systems, but they
(11:51):
instead exhibit mechanisms andbehaviors quite similar to
neural network, and thissuggests that perhaps the
traditional way of dividing upOB into three distinct levels
doesn't capture the truecomplexity going on.
What are some of the messyinteractions in psychology and
(12:12):
neuroscience that might relateto the complex interactions
between the three levels of OB?
Ryan McCreedy (12:18):
Oh my goodness, I'm so glad you asked that
question.
This is what wakes me up in themorning.
A lot of folks think that ifyou get people to act
differently, like try a newbehavior out, or if you force a
behavior on them, that then itwill stick.
That's not quite the case.
So if anybody has gone throughany sort of training where
they're supposed to act out orwalk the steps out but they
(12:39):
didn't really understand the why, understand the implication,
they're far more likely to fallback to their old ways of
behaving.
The traditional thing is likePavlov's dogs Every single time
you feed them, you ring a belland then, if you ring the bell,
they are not validating.
Sure, there's some truth tothat, but they don't know the
why.
When you get to organizationalpsychology, it gets to a deeper
level where you're trying toaffect the deep affective level,
(13:02):
the belief system of anindividual.
In organizational developmentthere's first loop and second
loop and third loop, learning.
The first loop is the behavior.
You're a Roomba.
You hit a wall, you come back.
You hit the wall a little bitto the left.
You come back.
You hit the wall, We'll lookfurther down to the left.
That's behaviorism.
You hit the psychology and youget to the belief system, it's
(13:23):
the Roomba that gets to questionlike okay, why am I hitting
walls at all?
I understand that I should stophitting walls.
That's what we're getting tothere.
The neurophysiological part isinteresting because we're
finding a lot of data that showthat physiological states are
precursors to mental states.
We used to think when I'manxious, my stomach gets upset.
It's a bit of a feedback system.
(13:44):
It's a two-way street.
If your stomach gets a littleupset or something that's
totally unrelated to what'shappening at the moment, your
mind actually creates anarrative.
So we're back at thepsychological state to meet that
it says well, I was going toworry about that meeting coming
up.
No, in reality you hit like aslightly bad piece of tuna.
Now you have a really badaspect on the situation that you
(14:04):
created because it has beenpaired with that so much wired
together.
Wired together is what we say inneuroscience.
All that to say, if you cascadeand you look at all of those
and you're working at all ofthem at the same time, it can be
really impactful.
Chris Argerist is a veryprominent theorist in
organizational development andorganizational behavior, and one
of the things that he used tosay is that we would act our way
(14:26):
into thinking new things and wethink new ways into acting.
Basically, it's a cycle Thinkourselves into new ways of
acting and act our way into newways of thinking.
It's a constant feedback We'vebeen through.
Not hitting both at the sametime, You're probably not
pushing people down to thedevelopment path.
Travis Mallett (14:42):
That's very interesting.
In a way, it seems like thereis such tight coupling between
the various systems in ourbodies and brains that it
sometimes doesn't seem useful toartificially subdivide them
into different units, and Iimagine something similar is the
case with organizations.
Can you say a bit about that?
Ryan McCreedy (15:03):
The organization mirrors the level of complexity
of all the connections of itsindividual people.
It's kind of like a giant wovenblanket.
It's a giant network.
That's how I always think oforganizations.
I don't think of them as charts, I think of them as networks
and the behavior of one part ofthe network could have ripple
effects down the rest of thenetwork.
It could go up, it could godown, it could go sideways.
(15:25):
It's not as hierarchical as Ithink we sometimes like to think
.
Informal leaders exist as thelargest hubs, the largest spokes
in that network, the personthat has the most connections.
What's interesting is sometimesthat's like an executive
assistant and that personactually has the most connection
and the most informalleadership, the most impacts to
(15:46):
changing the organizationalsystem because of the number of
connections that they have.
Travis Mallett (15:50):
Okay, so just to keep everything straight here,
there are lots of complexinteractions between various
systems in our bodies and minds,and organizations seem to
mirror that complexity.
Now you brought up single,double and triple loop learning
in individual psychology.
Do organizations, because theyhave all these connections and
(16:12):
feedback loops, also exhibitsimilar behavior?
Ryan McCreedy (16:16):
Yeah, so organizations are so cool?
Because there's concepts calledcomplex adaptive systems.
Like you were just saying,there's tons of connections,
tons of feedback loops.
Entity in a system is basicallya function of the number of
connections that there are.
When you look at organizationallearning and you look at those
feedback loops, the normalamount of connections within the
organization is very few perindividual.
(16:37):
There's less opportunity forthose changes in learning to
happen across the organization.
They call it network densitywhen you look at it as an
organizational network.
But if there's less connectionsper individual ie a lot of silo
culture then what happens in oneplace will likely not transcend
in the other place.
It's going to be very difficultfor that to happen In today's
business.
(16:58):
That's the problem, becauseadaptive systems are highly
connected systems and adaptivesystems are able to look at
what's happening externally andreact to it in probably ways
that there's not a technicalsolution for yet.
And so if we had an enhancedconnection, we actually get more
cross functional collaboration,which then allows us to come up
with well, I have this piece ofthe puzzle.
(17:18):
Well, I have this random pieceof puzzle.
What if we MacGyver and put thetwo together?
That might just be the bigthing to unlock the big
challenge that we're facingright now and happen without
connection.
And so, at any rate, what wesee in organizations is that
single loop learning whereorganizations say we have the
best idea, we don't care whatanybody else says, they hit a
wall, or they're extremelysuccessful, just want us right,
they will hit wonders.
Okay, good for them, but theydon't ever change their culture
(17:42):
or anything else.
Like that Second loop learning.
They change their culture, theychange their belief system,
their underlying beliefs that'swhat definition of culture
really is In order to meet theneed of the current moment.
That's always happening.
And then there's technicallylike third loop, and that third
loop is saying what are thesocietal things that we need to
change, or the disparate socialsystems that we need to connect
(18:04):
or make a new thing?
And to me that's almost likeblue ocean types of change.
We're beyond culture now.
We're saying we're going tochange into a space that doesn't
even exist socially yet.
It's completely bewildering andthat's more ethereal and
philosophical.
Why are we then changing thefirst place?
To break that down simplyorganizations in the first loop.
(18:25):
Am I building it right?
Whatever they're doing, am Ibuilding, am I doing, am I
delivering the value right, thenext loop, second loop, more
culturally able to be agileorganizations.
Am I comfortable enough to saythis isn't the right thing?
It doesn't matter about thequality if it's not meeting the
need right.
And then next level is why arewe doing any of this?
(18:47):
Is this even the right industry?
Is this even the right play?
It's way beyond that.
Who gets to decide what isright is actually the question
that they ask.
Personally, I'm interested tounderstand how levels and orders
of mental complexity relate toneural networks in the brain,
and is that inability or is itsomething that can be formed?
The jury's out on that.
I want to be extremely clear onsomething that's really
(19:08):
fascinating.
Right now, 56% of adults basedon studies, approximately 56% of
adults are currently in thesocialized level of mental
complexity or below which.
That level of complexity isalmost the same as what
generative AI can do.
It goes back to that singleloop or double loop or triple
loop learning.
They're in that single loop,and so there's a really
(19:29):
interesting problem set in frontof us where, if it's an ability
saying, there's a possibilitythat AI is currently creeping
towards the same level of mentalcomplexity as 56% of working
adults.
That's a huge issue.
What do we do with that?
No clue, no idea.
Travis Mallett (19:47):
Wow, this was fascinating.
Thanks again for joining us.
It always seems like a firehose of information when we talk
about this stuff.
Ryan McCreedy (19:55):
Thank you so much that pleasure.
Travis Mallett (20:00):
So there you have it.
What is organizational behavior?
The basic definition is prettysimple it encompasses the
actions of individuals andgroups in an organizational
context.
But, as we discussed, this is avery large and unwieldy field
of study which overlaps with anumber of other fields.
Not only that, but the topicsof study within OB typically
(20:24):
overlap and interrelate withinthe field of OB in complex ways,
making this a challenging,complex, messy field of study
full of opportunities fordiscovery.
While some instructional textson organizational behavior
dissect the subject into thesethree distinct layers, beginning
(20:46):
with individual analysis,progressing to leadership and
groups and finally encapsulatingthe abstract, large-scale
studies of the organization as awhole will be taking a topical
approach.
This is primarily due to thesheer magnitude of interaction
and interdependence that existsbetween each layer and across
(21:06):
multiple subject areas.
Let's take an example toillustrate this.
Consider an organization thatpromotes a culture of work-life
balance.
This cultural value directlyinfluences the employees'
lifestyles, encouraging them tostrike a balance between their
work and personal lives.
Employees in such organizationsare likely to be less stressed,
(21:29):
healthier and more satisfiedwith their jobs.
Now, this collective well-beingof employees can reflect
positively on the organization'sreputation.
The organization becomes knownas a great place to work, which
makes it attractive to potentialemployees.
A better reputation allows theorganization to attract and
(21:49):
retain high-quality talent, thusenhancing its competitive
advantage.
But the ripple doesn't stopthere.
The influx of high-qualitytalent can spur innovation,
enhance the organization'sperformance and even influence
structure and strategicdirection.
This, in turn, can furtherreinforce the culture of
(22:09):
work-life balance by creating anenvironment where employees
feel valued, leading to a cyclethat continually enhances
organizational behavior.
So organizational behavior islike a complex, intricate
tapestry.
Each thread is interconnected,and pulling on one causes the
(22:29):
entire pattern to shift.
That's why it's important toapproach the subject from
various angles, depending on thespecific issues at hand.
It's virtually impossible totrack all these threads
concurrently, but by focusing ondifferent topics, adding each
to our management theory toolbox, we can gain a better
understanding of the whole, andthat's why we'll treat this
(22:52):
subject topically.
We'll talk about diversity,learning and perception,
motivation, stress andwell-being, leadership,
communication, decision-makinggroups and teams, conflict and
negotiation, organizationalstructure, culture and more.
In one way or another, each ofthese topics will be examined
across all three levels of OB.
(23:13):
Stay tuned for our next episode.
As always, each episode isbased on the latest and most
robust management theory.
Check out the show notes, whichcontain citations, references
and links to the source materialfor every management theory
concept in the episode.
Until then, keep exploring,keep learning and keep building
(23:35):
your management theory toolbox.
And so if we had enhanced connection, we actually
get more cross-functionalcollaboration, which then allows
us to come up with well, I havethis piece of the bubble, I
have this random piece of puzzlewhat if we MacGyver and put the
two together, that might justbe the big thing coming off, the
big challenge that we're facingright now, and happen without
connection.
Travis Mallett (00:20):
Welcome back to the Management Theory Toolbox,
where we systematically work ourway through modern management
theory concepts and continuallyadd to our management toolbox.
I'm your host, travis Mallett,and today we're diving head
first into one of thefoundational fields of
management theory the realm oforganizational behavior, or OB
(00:44):
for short.
So what exactly isorganizational behavior?
The definition is pretty simpleAn organizational behavior is
the study of how individuals andgroups behave and interact
within an organization.
That's it Done.
I'll say that again.
It's the study of howindividuals and groups behave
(01:09):
and interact within anorganization.
But you might think that thisis an extremely broad definition
.
It's kind of like asking aphysicist what is physics, only
to get the typical grandioseresponse Physics is the study of
everything, or at leasteverything in physical existence
(01:31):
.
Well, okay, thanks, but whatdoes that actually mean?
Are there any limitations toyour field of study?
Where does physics end andchemistry begin, and how do you
break down such a broad field ofstudy into manageable chunks?
We'll find that organizationalbehavior is similarly difficult
(01:51):
to nail down, define anddelineate clear boundaries.
So with that, let's startdeveloping an understanding of
what organizational behavior is.
Picture, if you will, anorganization as a vibrant
marketplace Not just anymarketplace but a sprawling
bazaar brimming with life and acolorful patchwork of stalls.
(02:15):
Each stall represents adifferent team within the
organization.
These could be sales, marketing, hr, customer service you name
it and each stall has a uniquerole, serving different purposes
and catering to variedclientele.
Now visualize the sellers ofthese stalls.
(02:36):
They're the employees of theorganization.
Each seller comes with a uniqueskill set, personality and
approach.
Some may be outgoing andcharismatic, enticing customers
with their energy.
Others might be more reservedbut highly meticulous, ensuring
every product or service ispresented flawlessly.
(02:58):
The diversity of these sellersbrings a dynamic energy to the
marketplace, mirroring the vastarray of talent within an
organization.
Moving on, let's think aboutthe customers in our bustling
bazaar.
They could be internalcustomers, such as other
departments needing assistance,or they could be external
(03:20):
customers who purchase theorganization's products or
services.
Their experience with thesellers, the atmosphere of the
marketplace and the quality ofthe goods they purchase all
impact their perception and, inturn, their loyalty.
Now, in our grand marketplace,the products or services sold at
(03:41):
the stalls symbolize the outputof the organization.
They could be anything fromcrafted goods to innovative
software solutions.
Their quality, innovation andrelevance to the customer's
needs can make or break thereputation of the marketplace.
The crucial element here is thebehavior, interactions and
(04:04):
attitudes of the sellers.
This is where organizationalbehavior, or OB, comes into play
.
Ob is like the unseen forcethat influences how sellers
interact with customers and eachother, their morale and their
performance.
For instance, if a seller isunmotivated, it could impact the
(04:25):
customer experience and thesales at the stall.
On the other hand, a motivatedand well-supported seller might
create a lively atmosphere andboost sales.
Ob seeks to understand theseinteractions, the effects of the
organization's structure andculture on its employees, and
optimize them.
(04:45):
The more we understand theseunseen forces, the more tools we
add to our management toolboxand the better we'll be able to
recognize the forces in ourworkplace, both in real time and
as we imagine and visualize thefuture and the consequences of
our strategic plans, managementtactics and structural decisions
(05:08):
.
Although many textbooks on OBbreak down the concepts into a
multitude of different topics,one way to understand the study
of OB involves looking at threeintertwined levels individual,
interpersonal and organizational.
At the individual level, welook at factors like one's
(05:30):
ability to learn, personalitytraits, motivation and personal
attitudes.
These characteristics shape howan individual performs within
the organization.
Moving on to the second level,the interpersonal level, we
focus on elements such asquality of leadership,
(05:51):
communication within and betweengroups and conflict management.
These elements are vitalbecause they determine how
individuals collaborate andinteract within the organization
, directly influencing theoverall team dynamics.
For instance, pixar AnimationStudios has created a culture
(06:14):
known for fosteringcollaboration and open
communication.
They have a ritual calleddailies, where animators come
together every day to review andprovide constructive feedback
on ongoing work.
This open and honestcommunication, coupled with
strong leadership, helps harnessthe individual talents towards
(06:37):
a collective goal, enhancing thecompany's creative output, and
it's an example of a managementtechnique that would be studied
at the interpersonal level inorganizational behavior.
Finally, at the organizationallevel, the structure and culture
of the organization play acrucial role.
These factors create theenvironment that allows
(07:00):
individuals and teams toflourish or, conversely, can
hinder their progress.
Think about the world-renownedCirque du Soleil.
You might think wait, isn'tthat a circus?
How does that relate toorganizational behavior?
And you're right.
It is a circus, but not justany circus.
It's a modern-day globalphenomenon that has completely
(07:24):
transformed the traditionalconcept of a circus, and it
offers us a fascinating casestudy for organizational
behavior.
Let's consider how it functions.
It's not just a group ofperformers, it's an organization
that involves a multitude ofteams performers, directors,
designers, technicians,marketers and more.
(07:45):
Each team plays a vital role increating the mesmerizing
performances that Cirque duSoleil is famous for.
Cirque du Soleil thrivesbecause it has built an
organizational culture thatencourages innovation and
risk-taking.
This is embodied in everyawe-inspiring acrobatic act that
(08:08):
pushes the boundaries of humanability and in every
unconventional performance thatmixes traditional circus arts
with theater, dance and music.
But it's not just about thespectacular shows Behind the
scenes, cirque du Soleilemphasizes the importance of
communication and collaboration.
(08:31):
Given the high-risk nature ofthe performances, trust and open
communication channels areparamount.
The organization has a flathierarchy which fosters a
culture of respect and openness,where everyone's input is
valued.
Moreover, cirque du Soleilprioritizes employee well-being
and satisfaction.
During the physically demandingnature of the performances, the
(08:54):
organization ensures performersare well cared for with the
provision of world-classtraining facilities,
physiotherapy and nutritionguidance.
This attention to employeewelfare not only ensures their
health, but also fosters astrong sense of loyalty and
belonging.
Cirque du Soleil, with itsunique approach, demonstrates
(09:17):
that focusing on organizationalculture, open communication and
employee well-being can createan environment that fosters
creativity, productivity andsatisfaction.
It's an unusual but brilliantexample of how the third level
of organizational behavior playsout in a non-traditional
business setting.
(09:37):
We'll probably revisit Cirquedu Soleil in a future episode
when we talk about strategicmanagement and the Blue Ocean
strategy, because it offers astellar example of
differentiation and valuecreation.
But for now, the key point isthat the third level of OB, the
organizational level, plays akey role in understanding and
(09:58):
optimizing the performance andin turn, the outcomes and
success of an organization.
If you've been with us on thisenlightening journey, you'll
know we always dig deeper thanthe surface narrative.
We don't just skim through thetextbook definitions.
Sure, it's true thatorganizational behavior refers
(10:21):
to the conduct of individualsand teams within organizations,
and yes, it's generallycategorized into three levels
individual, interpersonal andorganizational.
But isn't it curious howseamlessly it all fits?
After all, organizations aren'tjust static entities, they're
pulsating human systems, ofteneluding such neat
(10:45):
categorizations.
Remember our discussion inepisode two.
We likened organizations toneural networks, suggesting they
are expansive reflections ofour own minds.
And this raises a tantalizingquestion Do the three levels of
organizational behavior echosome intrinsic aspects of our
(11:07):
brains?
To unravel this intricate web,we have our neuroscience expert,
ryan McCready, joining us onceagain.
Ryan is a principalorganizational effectiveness
consultant, a teaching fellow atHarvard University and a
doctoral candidate at WilliamJames College, currently
studying how neuroscience isinforming leadership and
(11:28):
organizational behavior, toexamine what is known about
brain functions and the nervoussystem and applying this to
leadership and organizationalcontexts.
Welcome to the show, ryan Travis.
Thanks for having me back again.
It's my pleasure.
So we talked with you in aprevious episode about how
organizations are not justgeneric living systems, but they
(11:51):
instead exhibit mechanisms andbehaviors quite similar to
neural network, and thissuggests that perhaps the
traditional way of dividing upOB into three distinct levels
doesn't capture the truecomplexity going on.
What are some of the messyinteractions in psychology and
(12:12):
neuroscience that might relateto the complex interactions
between the three levels of OB?
Ryan McCreedy (12:18):
Oh my goodness, I'm so glad you asked that
question.
This is what wakes me up in themorning.
A lot of folks think that ifyou get people to act
differently, like try a newbehavior out, or if you force a
behavior on them, that then itwill stick.
That's not quite the case.
So if anybody has gone throughany sort of training where
they're supposed to act out orwalk the steps out but they
(12:39):
didn't really understand the why, understand the implication,
they're far more likely to fallback to their old ways of
behaving.
The traditional thing is likePavlov's dogs Every single time
you feed them, you ring a belland then, if you ring the bell,
they are not validating.
Sure, there's some truth tothat, but they don't know the
why.
When you get to organizationalpsychology, it gets to a deeper
level where you're trying toaffect the deep affective level,
(13:02):
the belief system of anindividual.
In organizational developmentthere's first loop and second
loop and third loop, learning.
The first loop is the behavior.
You're a Roomba.
You hit a wall, you come back.
You hit the wall a little bitto the left.
You come back.
You hit the wall, We'll lookfurther down to the left.
That's behaviorism.
You hit the psychology and youget to the belief system, it's
(13:23):
the Roomba that gets to questionlike okay, why am I hitting
walls at all?
I understand that I should stophitting walls.
That's what we're getting tothere.
The neurophysiological part isinteresting because we're
finding a lot of data that showthat physiological states are
precursors to mental states.
We used to think when I'manxious, my stomach gets upset.
It's a bit of a feedback system.
(13:44):
It's a two-way street.
If your stomach gets a littleupset or something that's
totally unrelated to what'shappening at the moment, your
mind actually creates anarrative.
So we're back at thepsychological state to meet that
it says well, I was going toworry about that meeting coming
up.
No, in reality you hit like aslightly bad piece of tuna.
Now you have a really badaspect on the situation that you
(14:04):
created because it has beenpaired with that so much wired
together.
Wired together is what we say inneuroscience.
All that to say, if you cascadeand you look at all of those
and you're working at all ofthem at the same time, it can be
really impactful.
Chris Argerist is a veryprominent theorist in
organizational development andorganizational behavior, and one
of the things that he used tosay is that we would act our way
(14:26):
into thinking new things and wethink new ways into acting.
Basically, it's a cycle Thinkourselves into new ways of
acting and act our way into newways of thinking.
It's a constant feedback We'vebeen through.
Not hitting both at the sametime, You're probably not
pushing people down to thedevelopment path.
Travis Mallett (14:42):
That's very interesting.
In a way, it seems like thereis such tight coupling between
the various systems in ourbodies and brains that it
sometimes doesn't seem useful toartificially subdivide them
into different units, and Iimagine something similar is the
case with organizations.
Can you say a bit about that?
Ryan McCreedy (15:03):
The organization mirrors the level of complexity
of all the connections of itsindividual people.
It's kind of like a giant wovenblanket.
It's a giant network.
That's how I always think oforganizations.
I don't think of them as charts, I think of them as networks
and the behavior of one part ofthe network could have ripple
effects down the rest of thenetwork.
It could go up, it could godown, it could go sideways.
(15:25):
It's not as hierarchical as Ithink we sometimes like to think
.
Informal leaders exist as thelargest hubs, the largest spokes
in that network, the personthat has the most connections.
What's interesting is sometimesthat's like an executive
assistant and that personactually has the most connection
and the most informalleadership, the most impacts to
(15:46):
changing the organizationalsystem because of the number of
connections that they have.
Travis Mallett (15:50):
Okay, so just to keep everything straight here,
there are lots of complexinteractions between various
systems in our bodies and minds,and organizations seem to
mirror that complexity.
Now you brought up single,double and triple loop learning
in individual psychology.
Do organizations, because theyhave all these connections and
(16:12):
feedback loops, also exhibitsimilar behavior?
Ryan McCreedy (16:16):
Yeah, so organizations are so cool?
Because there's concepts calledcomplex adaptive systems.
Like you were just saying,there's tons of connections,
tons of feedback loops.
Entity in a system is basicallya function of the number of
connections that there are.
When you look at organizationallearning and you look at those
feedback loops, the normalamount of connections within the
organization is very few perindividual.
(16:37):
There's less opportunity forthose changes in learning to
happen across the organization.
They call it network densitywhen you look at it as an
organizational network.
But if there's less connectionsper individual ie a lot of silo
culture then what happens in oneplace will likely not transcend
in the other place.
It's going to be very difficultfor that to happen In today's
business.
(16:58):
That's the problem, becauseadaptive systems are highly
connected systems and adaptivesystems are able to look at
what's happening externally andreact to it in probably ways
that there's not a technicalsolution for yet.
And so if we had an enhancedconnection, we actually get more
cross functional collaboration,which then allows us to come up
with well, I have this piece ofthe puzzle.
(17:18):
Well, I have this random pieceof puzzle.
What if we MacGyver and put thetwo together?
That might just be the bigthing to unlock the big
challenge that we're facingright now and happen without
connection.
And so, at any rate, what wesee in organizations is that
single loop learning whereorganizations say we have the
best idea, we don't care whatanybody else says, they hit a
wall, or they're extremelysuccessful, just want us right,
they will hit wonders.
Okay, good for them, but theydon't ever change their culture
(17:42):
or anything else.
Like that Second loop learning.
They change their culture, theychange their belief system,
their underlying beliefs that'swhat definition of culture
really is In order to meet theneed of the current moment.
That's always happening.
And then there's technicallylike third loop, and that third
loop is saying what are thesocietal things that we need to
change, or the disparate socialsystems that we need to connect
(18:04):
or make a new thing?
And to me that's almost likeblue ocean types of change.
We're beyond culture now.
We're saying we're going tochange into a space that doesn't
even exist socially yet.
It's completely bewildering andthat's more ethereal and
philosophical.
Why are we then changing thefirst place?
To break that down simplyorganizations in the first loop.
(18:25):
Am I building it right?
Whatever they're doing, am Ibuilding, am I doing, am I
delivering the value right, thenext loop, second loop, more
culturally able to be agileorganizations.
Am I comfortable enough to saythis isn't the right thing?
It doesn't matter about thequality if it's not meeting the
need right.
And then next level is why arewe doing any of this?
(18:47):
Is this even the right industry?
Is this even the right play?
It's way beyond that.
Who gets to decide what isright is actually the question
that they ask.
Personally, I'm interested tounderstand how levels and orders
of mental complexity relate toneural networks in the brain,
and is that inability or is itsomething that can be formed?
The jury's out on that.
I want to be extremely clear onsomething that's really
(19:08):
fascinating.
Right now, 56% of adults basedon studies, approximately 56% of
adults are currently in thesocialized level of mental
complexity or below which.
That level of complexity isalmost the same as what
generative AI can do.
It goes back to that singleloop or double loop or triple
loop learning.
They're in that single loop,and so there's a really
(19:29):
interesting problem set in frontof us where, if it's an ability
saying, there's a possibilitythat AI is currently creeping
towards the same level of mentalcomplexity as 56% of working
adults.
That's a huge issue.
What do we do with that?
No clue, no idea.
Travis Mallett (19:47):
Wow, this was fascinating.
Thanks again for joining us.
It always seems like a firehose of information when we talk
about this stuff.
Ryan McCreedy (19:55):
Thank you so much that pleasure.
Travis Mallett (20:00):
So there you have it.
What is organizational behavior?
The basic definition is prettysimple it encompasses the
actions of individuals andgroups in an organizational
context.
But, as we discussed, this is avery large and unwieldy field
of study which overlaps with anumber of other fields.
Not only that, but the topicsof study within OB typically
(20:24):
overlap and interrelate withinthe field of OB in complex ways,
making this a challenging,complex, messy field of study
full of opportunities fordiscovery.
While some instructional textson organizational behavior
dissect the subject into thesethree distinct layers, beginning
(20:46):
with individual analysis,progressing to leadership and
groups and finally encapsulatingthe abstract, large-scale
studies of the organization as awhole will be taking a topical
approach.
This is primarily due to thesheer magnitude of interaction
and interdependence that existsbetween each layer and across
(21:06):
multiple subject areas.
Let's take an example toillustrate this.
Consider an organization thatpromotes a culture of work-life
balance.
This cultural value directlyinfluences the employees'
lifestyles, encouraging them tostrike a balance between their
work and personal lives.
Employees in such organizationsare likely to be less stressed,
(21:29):
healthier and more satisfiedwith their jobs.
Now, this collective well-beingof employees can reflect
positively on the organization'sreputation.
The organization becomes knownas a great place to work, which
makes it attractive to potentialemployees.
A better reputation allows theorganization to attract and
(21:49):
retain high-quality talent, thusenhancing its competitive
advantage.
But the ripple doesn't stopthere.
The influx of high-qualitytalent can spur innovation,
enhance the organization'sperformance and even influence
structure and strategicdirection.
This, in turn, can furtherreinforce the culture of
(22:09):
work-life balance by creating anenvironment where employees
feel valued, leading to a cyclethat continually enhances
organizational behavior.
So organizational behavior islike a complex, intricate
tapestry.
Each thread is interconnected,and pulling on one causes the
(22:29):
entire pattern to shift.
That's why it's important toapproach the subject from
various angles, depending on thespecific issues at hand.
It's virtually impossible totrack all these threads
concurrently, but by focusing ondifferent topics, adding each
to our management theory toolbox, we can gain a better
understanding of the whole, andthat's why we'll treat this
(22:52):
subject topically.
We'll talk about diversity,learning and perception,
motivation, stress andwell-being, leadership,
communication, decision-makinggroups and teams, conflict and
negotiation, organizationalstructure, culture and more.
In one way or another, each ofthese topics will be examined
across all three levels of OB.
(23:13):
Stay tuned for our next episode.
As always, each episode isbased on the latest and most
robust management theory.
Check out the show notes, whichcontain citations, references
and links to the source materialfor every management theory
concept in the episode.
Until then, keep exploring,keep learning and keep building
(23:35):
your management theory toolbox.
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