January 20, 2025 • 46 mins
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Cody Butler, the brilliant mind behind Better Marriage and the Marriage Recovery Process, joins us to unveil the secrets of building successful marriages through leadership grounded in love. Discover how embodying happiness and positivity can transform relationships, challenging traditional perceptions of authority within faith-based communities. As Cody shares insights inspired by Ephesians 5, we delve into the art of being a high-value male—one who naturally inspires a partner to follow by becoming someone worth following.
Our discussion takes an intimate turn as we explore the necessity of fostering emotional safety in marriage. We unravel the complexities of understanding a partner’s needs before seeking to be understood, emphasizing that true emotional intimacy cannot be achieved through superficial means. By inviting open dialogue and criticism, couples can strengthen their partnership, maintaining a focus on collaborative growth. This episode sheds light on the foundational yet often overlooked elements that underpin a thriving relationship, highlighting the profound impact of emotional safety and genuine connection.
Facing the challenges of marital crises, Cody provides a roadmap for personal growth and rekindling love. He explains how recognizing early signs of disconnect can prevent partnerships from reaching breaking points. By focusing on self-improvement and the characteristics necessary to attract meaningful connections, listeners are encouraged to uphold their commitments with integrity and ambition. Whether navigating a crisis or working towards a deeper bond, this episode offers indispensable insights for cultivating fulfillment and mutual respect in marriage.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hi everybody.
It's Michelle Hill, your legacybuilder at Winning Proof, and I
have a special guest today andthe audience today.
I usually have podcasts thatspeak to everybody, and this
will speak to everybody, butit's geared toward men.
Man, listen, there's somereally valuable information
(00:27):
coming, and so I'm going to readCody, this is Cody Butler.
He is in Australia and so youmight recognize, let me put my
phone on mute.
That's a terrible podcast thingto do, podcast thing to do.
And so, cody, it's early in themorning, I believe for you,
(00:49):
cody, correct, it's not tooearly.
10 am, oh, it's not too early,okay, and it's eight o'clock and
I am like this is late for me.
And so we're just going to havea great conversation and I'm
going to open by just reading alittle bit of Cody's bio.
(01:09):
Cody Butler, the founder ofBetter Marriage and creator of
the Marriage Recovery Process,teaches couples how to repair
intimacy, restore communicationand rebuild their marriages
communication and rebuild theirmarriages.
(01:29):
Cody's unique, faith-basedapproach seamlessly integrates
cutting-edge neuroscience withdeep spiritual insights,
revolutionizing the way couplesheal and reconnect.
Our proprietary Neuro EmotionalDialogue NED method provides
solutions that are bothscientifically sound and
spiritually enriching.
As the number one best-sellingauthor of Cut the BS, a
(01:55):
No-Nonsense Guide to Happinessand a sought-after guest on Fox,
abc and NBC, cody brings awealth of knowledge and a proven
track record of success.
He has already helped thousandsof couples develop the skills
needed to succeed in marriage intoday's new normal.
(02:15):
So, cody, welcome, welcome,welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Thank you for having me, Michelle.
Good to be here.
Thank you for having me,Michelle.
It's good to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Thank you.
Yeah, let's dive in.
Like I said, this podcast isreally geared toward men and I
want to discuss, like one ofyour topics is how to be the
husband of Ephesians 5 that willsave any marriage.
What does that mean?
Ephesians 5, that will save anymarriage?
(02:43):
What?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
does that mean?
Yeah, it's being a high-valuemale.
Basically it's being a man thatyour wife.
We talk about leadership and alot of.
There's a fine line betweenleadership and tyranny, and
(03:11):
leadership is somebody that thatyou voluntarily fire, one you
know, follow.
One of the one of the uhanalogies that I always make is
like how does, how do you getmen to advance into fire, into a
battle?
How do you get them to advanceinto certain death?
And it's like the answer is youhave to be willing to take the
first arrow, you have to bewilling to take the first bullet
.
You can't be the general up onthe hill saying men, advance
into battle.
I'll be up here because if Iget killed, you're all in
trouble and it's like.
You know, it's not feminism ormasculinism or masculinity or
(03:31):
anything like that, it's just acase of like.
When you provide genuineleadership, everybody is going
to want to follow you, male orfemale.
And that's where we want to getto is a place where you're
going somewhere good, you'releading.
You're going somewhere good,you're leading.
You're going somewhere goodyourself, and everybody can look
at you and go he's goingsomewhere good or she's going
somewhere good.
I would like to follow thatperson to that place and that's
(03:52):
leading them to a better place,not leading them through demand
or command or because you thinkyou have some authority or
God-given right to lead.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Okay, yeah, and that makes sense.
And I think people, especiallyfaith-based people, people in
the church, they think ofEphesians 5 as an impossible
task, like it's an ideal thatthey can't ever live up to.
But you talk about leading withlove, and what does that look
(04:25):
like in the trenches of everydaymarriage?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
well, especially from a faith-based perspective.
We're talking men, men withinthe church you know men in
general as well but like,particularly within the church,
and they feel like they havesome right to tell their wife
what to do, or they have someGod-given authority to, you know
, put their thumb down on theirwife or their partner and tell
them what to do.
And the reality is, it's likeleadership is about what we just
(04:57):
said, right?
It's like, if you're unhappy,it's like marriage, in a lot of
cases, two starving peoplecoming together saying let's
share each other's food.
When, when, the reality is it'slike if, if you follow me,
you're going to get what I'vegot, if I follow you, you're
going, I'm going to get whatyou've got.
And if you're depressed, you'renegative, the sky's falling
(05:17):
down.
You're unhappy, you'refinancially destitute uh, you
have nothing desirable.
Why would I follow that?
Well, you know to go to, cometo me and say god's given me
authority that and you mustfollow me.
It's like, well, that's insane.
It's like if I'm, if I'm happy,I'm positive, I've got friends,
(05:37):
I've got social life, I've gotfinances, I've got a happy
marriage, I've got children thatlove me, I've got good health,
I've got.
I've got a lot of the thingsthat that is desirable.
I don't have to say follow me.
People are going to come to meand say you have a lot of stuff
that I would like.
How did you get that code?
And that that's where it's likeit, that that's where the real
(05:59):
leadership comes from and thatthat's where we want to.
That's what's missing in themarriage.
That that type of leadershipmichelle is like.
Men are coming to their wivessaying you need to respect me,
you need to follow me, you needto fill in the blank.
But the reality is well, whathave you given her to follow?
What have you given her torespect?
And if you want to be respected, give that person something to
(06:21):
respect.
If you want to be followed,give them, show them that you're
going somewhere worth following.
And it's leading throughexample, not not leading through
command and demand.
And I think that's really wherewe go wrong.
A lot of times, michelle islike we just think we have some
divine right to be respected andit's like no, that's not.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
That's not how it works yeah that, thank you for
sharing that.
That is really important tounderstand.
Now, what can a husband do ifhe does have those traits and he
is a natural leader by exampleand how he's conducting his life
(07:01):
, but his wife is not on board,she is reluctant, she is
resistant?
Is there a way he can keepbeing that leader when it
doesn't seem like anybody isfollowing?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Well, if nobody's following, it's because you're
going nowhere desirable If youwant to know.
Ultimately, it's like you'vegot to look at yourself and go
am I delusional?
Am I crazy?
It's like I talk to people inbusiness all the time they go
I've got a great business, I'vegot a product that people want,
I've got great marketing, I'vegot great sales, but you broke.
(07:39):
It's like there's a disconnecthere.
It's like the fruit will tellyou what the root of the tree is
.
And if, if nobody is respectingyou, maybe you're behaving in a
way that doesn't garner respect.
In in the same way, like youknow, we've all met these people
that they're 50 poundsoverweight and they go I eat
(08:02):
nothing.
I exercise all the time and Ieat nothing.
No, you're delusional.
It's like you don't.
You don't eat a healthy dietand you don't exercise on a
regular basis and be 50 or 60 or100 pounds overweight.
It's like you're delusional.
You created something in yourmind that simply isn't true and
the the the secret here toeverything.
(08:25):
And it's like jesus says knowthe truth, because it is the
truth that will set you free.
It's not your delusionalconcept of what you want the
truth to be or what you thinkthe truth is and again, the
reality is, the smartest thingto do is, if you're overweight
is not to say well, I'm eatingthe right diet and I'm doing the
right amount of exercise.
It's going.
I'm missing something.
Yeah, doing the right amount ofexercise is going.
(08:46):
I'm missing something, yeah.
If, if you're in a marriagethat your wife doesn't respect
you or your wife isn't followingyou, then the smart thing to do
is say I'm maybe I'm missingsomething here, but our tendency
is to blame the other personand to look at the other person
and go I'm doing right, so theymust be wrong is what happens.
And we've got to start withourselves.
(09:08):
And we've got to start reallyintrospectively, looking at
ourselves and looking in themirror.
And the problem lies with usand the solution lies with us.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and I
think we are, as humans, quickto blame other people.
It's not us, it's not me, itmust be someone else's fault.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Exactly so that'll be someone else.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
How are, what are some communication keys that a
man can, a husband can use toget maybe a non-communicative
wife to open up and communicatewith him without forcing the
issue?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Look, that's a great question, Michelle.
I talk to men all the time theygo.
My wife just doesn't liketalking.
I'm like no, no, no.
So she doesn't like talking toyou.
I guarantee she likes talkingand I guarantee she's talking to
people about it's like no, no,no.
She like that's an absurd,insane statement.
My wife doesn't like talking.
That's like saying a dogdoesn't like barking.
(10:16):
Women talk, they love talking.
And ultimately like look,here's the number one, here's
the number like this this is thenugget.
If you're a man and you're in amarriage, take this away,
because this, this is wortheverything.
The number one thing that youneed in a marriage, for a happy
marriage, is emotional safety.
If your woman is notcommunicating with you is
because she doesn't feelemotionally safe to do so.
(10:38):
That's the truth, you know.
And and guys ask me all thetime they go I've got two
questions Is my marriage savableand how long is it going to
take to save?
And I'm like can you createemotional safety and how long is
it going to take for you to doit?
That's everything, job done.
So in every situation, thesmart man, the husband that
(11:03):
really cares about his wife andwants to be there for her should
be asking the question am Ibuilding or destroying emotional
safety in this conversation?
Am I working towards emotionalsafety or am I tearing it down?
Because if you're building it,your marriage is growing.
If you're tearing it down, yourmarriage is dying.
There's no in-between.
And let me define Michellequickly, if I may, what
(11:24):
emotional safety is from myperspective, because it's kind
of an abstract term.
Yes, because men will go.
Well, of course, my wife's gotemotional safety.
Well, hang on.
A second right hang on.
Emotional safety is the abilitythat your wife, the percentage
of your wife that she can beherself, what percentage of the
time?
So the gold standard is yourwife can be 100 of herself, 100
(11:48):
of her time of the time.
That's the gold standard.
That is emotional safety at thehighest level.
She feels like she cancompletely express herself,
however she feels, at any point,without fear any kind of
repercussions, and a lot oftimes what happens is a woman
expresses herself and she'spunished for it, and then she
(12:09):
expresses herself again andshe's punished for it.
Yes, and after a while sheshe's learned, because every
time she talks, she punishes,she learns that speaking to you
is painful, pointless or both,probably both painful and
pointless, and you've trainedher that talking is pointless.
So she stops talking based onyour training.
(12:31):
And now you start accusing herof stonewalling, so you create
the problem and then accuse herof becoming the problem.
So not only have you createdthe problem, you're now accusing
her of being the problem andit's like now it's a double
whammy.
It's like she knows she's notthe problem.
So she's like I've doneeverything I can do to talk to
you.
I've done everything I can doto communicate with you, how to
(12:53):
save this marriage, how toimprove it, and every time I do,
you punish me.
So I stop communicating becauseyou're punishing me.
And now you're accusing me ofstonewalling because I'm doing
what you trained me to do.
And here's the man going mywife's the problem.
My wife knows.
So she's not the problem, she'sa product of your leadership
and you've led her to believethat she can't talk.
(13:15):
She's a product of yourleadership, that's all she is.
Lead her, lead her.
Show her, through yourleadership, that she has the
emotional safety to communicate.
And guess what she will do?
100 times out of 100, she willcommunicate.
So that's a great place tostart, michelle.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Oh, that's so great and so true, so, so true.
I love that.
And so connected to thatcommunication and that emotional
safety is.
You know, men and I know we'rediving into maybe an area that
people feel a little bituncomfortable talking about on a
(13:54):
podcast, I don't, but when itcomes to the sexual intimacy,
like women have to feel thatconnection.
They just don't want to be anobject, and so how can a man
really nurture his wife so,especially if she's a little bit
(14:15):
reluctant and she's really notinto it that much, how can he
nurture an environment thatinvites meaningful getting
together, meaningful sexualintimacy?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Well, that's a great question.
I mean, it's probably thenumber one complaint and the
number one motivator of men,right?
But the answer is the same.
It's like if your wife is notwanting to be intimate with you,
it's because she has noemotional safety with you.
If your wife is not wanting tobe intimate with you, it's
because she's has no emotionalsafety.
It's as simple as that.
It's like, you know, most men Iwork with they think their
wives are just these demoniccreatures that just want to make
(14:54):
them miserable all the time.
It's like if you make your wifehappy, she will, she will.
It doesn't matter if she's soinclined, if she feels that way
or not.
She's very likely toaccommodate you because she
loves you and she wants to seeyou happy.
But that's again, this is it'sleadership.
It's leading your wife to aplace where, in that place, it
(15:15):
says, hey, your needs are moreimportant than my needs.
This is the you know.
Go back to your earlierquestion that what is the
husband of Ephesians 5?
It's a man that puts his wife'sneeds before his own.
To simplify it, it's a man whoputs his wife's needs before his
own.
Most men say, well, I'd lay mylife down for my family.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Well, yeah, you'd lay your life down, but would you
lay your needs down?
That's really profound.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, you're not gonna be asked yeah, that's rare
you're not gonna be asked tolay.
It's easy to say I'd lay mylife down for my family.
Well, yeah, what's the chancesof that happening?
It's, it's.
It's a throwaway statement,right?
It's like you're never going tobe tested.
But it's like if I say I'mwilling to lay my needs down for
my wife's needs, oh, I'm goingto be tested in the next hour.
(16:13):
Good, yes yeah, you know, andultimately it's like one of the
things we say we have a program.
One thing we say is like themirror never lies.
It's like if you're not gettingyour needs because you're not
meeting me okay, if you'regetting hostility.
It's because you're givinghostility.
Your marriage is nothing morewhat your wife has been brought
to you to highlight your owninefficiency yeah, she's a
(16:36):
mirror.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Basically, what you're saying is she's a mirror
of your leadership.
She's a mirror of how youconduct yourself and how you
treat her yes, right, don't getme wrong.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Like it's the same the other way as well.
It's not just the one, what youknow.
Obviously we're talking aboutmen in this conversation but
it's like your husband if you'rea woman, your husband is a man
as well, so yeah pretty muchthat that's reflective.
I mean, obviously, like a man'sneed is not emotional safety,
has different needs.
So we're talking really fromthe perspective of, of, you know
, the man helping the woman moveto a better place within the
(17:09):
marriage at this point.
But yeah, it's seek tounderstand before seeking to be
understood.
And I'll give you a quickexample, michelle, a lot of guys
that I work with go, if my wifecould only understand how I
feel, if my wife, if I couldonly communicate how much I love
her.
I'm like me, me, me, me, me.
I'm like you're asking me.
I'm like you're trying.
(17:29):
You're asking me how can I beunderstood?
I'm like the question is notthe problem, is that's all you
care about.
Is her understanding?
You like if you could turn thataround and go, I seek to
understand my wife beforeseeking to be understood my
myself.
Watch what will happen in yourmarriage.
It'll be insane what willhappen.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
And go on, go on, michelle, sorry no, that what
you're saying is so real and sotrue and I have talked to you
know, men along the way thathave said, yes, to get my wife
amorous, I need to give her acouple glasses of wine.
I need to do these externalthings so she is, you know, in
(18:15):
the mood.
But what you're saying makes somuch sense because it's not the
couple glasses of wine, it'sthe how you're treating her,
it's how you're presentingyourself as a man to her,
correct?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
well again, michelle, like like okay, well, that man
like I'm I'm gonna throw it outthere and risk criticism here
it's like, basically, you'resaying I'm a man that needs,
that's happy and willing to drugmy wife to get sex out of it,
that's the type of man you are.
I'm a man that's happy to drugmy wife wife to have sex, so
she'll have sex with me.
It's like okay, well, you'resome kind of leader we all want
(18:51):
to follow.
Why would she want to have sexwith a man that's quite happy to
drug her to get what he wants?
Obviously, I'm going to theedge of the envelope here, but
that's what's going on.
It's like you don't need togive your wife drugs to get her
to have.
Like, give her the emotionaldrugs, give her the emotional
(19:12):
endorsement, like that's what.
Give her what she needs.
It's like it's this stuff'svery easy.
And here's the thing I've got aYouTube channel and I've got
some videos on there on what todo in a sexless marriage.
If you're a man, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Everybody will tune in to that one.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
If you're a man, okay , everybody will tune into that
one.
I've got a series of commentsfrom women saying this guy's
spot on, listen to him.
And then I've got a series ofcomments from men going this
guy's a bozo, he should bebanned from youtube.
It's like all of the men aresaying this guy's clueless and
the women are saying listen tohim, this is what you need to do
if you want to have sex with me.
And it's like this is again.
This is the, the leadershipthat you know.
(19:54):
A good leader is not.
A good leader invites criticism.
A good leader invitesconstructive dialogue.
A good leader invitesalternative and opposing
opinions yeah, that's what agood leader does and then brings
all of those elements into thedecision-making process and it's
like marriage is a partnershipand if you don't involve your
(20:17):
woman in the decision-makingprocess, how's she going to feel
a partner, how's she going tofeel like you're on this journey
together?
You know, and and I think youknow one of the big things I
tell men I'm like women don'twant much man, they want to jump
, they want a general word, theywant a kind touch and they want
to feel like it's you and heragainst the world.
(20:38):
That's it, yeah.
And it's like how can it be youand her against the world when
she doesn't have much input oryou've destroyed emotional
safety so she can't have input?
It's you against the world withher in tow as the maid.
Like, yeah, yeah, that's whatit is like.
(21:02):
Most men are nothing more than alodger in their own house.
That's all they are.
And it's like well, how doesshe feel like she's a part of
this relationship?
It's like you know, if you wantto save your marriage, start
acting like you're married, bro.
Start acting like you'remarried.
Don't act like it's singleindividual in a married home
with all the benefits of beingmarried but none of the
(21:22):
drawbacks, and then go.
I want to save my marriage.
If you want to save yourmarriage, start acting.
Acting like you're marriedbrother.
Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Start behaving like you're married.
I used to.
I remember telling myex-husband at one point like I'm
not even on the back burner,I'm not even on the stove you
know, I'd like to be anafterthought.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I'd like to be an afterthought right now.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Exactly, exactly so.
You coach a lot of men throughmarriages, relationship.
You know the issues in theirmarriage.
What are the top say?
Three things that you seerepeated that men come to you
for that they really need helpin.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Well, look, what they come to me for and what they
need help in are two differentthings.
What they think they need helpin is getting their wives to
comply, getting their wives tobend to their will, getting
their wives to see their opinion, getting their wives to
understand their point.
That's what they think theyneed.
But at the end of the day, whatthey really need is they need
(22:32):
to understand what emotionalsafety is and how to create.
You know, I I like we've gottwo.
We've got two elements here.
For a man it's sex, for a womanit's communication.
And I tell you know, it's likewhen I talk to women, I say,
well, if she's not giving, ifshe's not engaging in sexual
activity, for whatever reason,I'm like, okay, you've got your
(22:54):
reasons, whatever, I get it.
But look at it like this it'slike if your husband didn't talk
to you for five years, wouldyou want to be married to him?
If your husband said I'm justnot talking to you because I
don't feel like it, where wouldthat leave you?
I'm just not talking to youbecause I don't feel like it,
where would that leave you?
I'm like marriages are grown upbusiness and it's like there's
an element of sacrifice on bothsides.
There's an element of give andtake on both sides and it's the
(23:16):
same with.
It's the same with with a man.
You know it's like they go well.
My wife hasn't given me sex forfive years.
What have you talked to her inthe last five years Other than
for sex?
It's like, if she's not, ifshe's not giving you intimacy,
it's because if she's not givingyou physical intimacy, it's
because you're not giving heremotional intimacy.
End of end of conversation.
(23:38):
Like if you don't agree with me, don't work with me, because
that's I'm not gonna, I'm nothaving that conversation.
If she's not giving youphysical intimacy, it's because
you're not giving her emotionalintimacy.
And it's like which came first,the chicken or the egg?
Well, I can tell you, in thiscase, emotional intimacy comes
before sexual intimacy.
That, and it's like if youdon't like that, don't call me
(23:59):
exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
So, based on what you just said and what men need
versus what they're saying theyneed, how do you break that
barrier of getting men to reallyunderstand that and take that
first step?
Because I can imagine theresistance is there.
(24:23):
I can imagine that you're fullof you know, baloney is there.
So how do you get them to tojust say, oh okay, like, like in
, uh, I don't know alcoholicsanonymous, say I know the first
step, they say, is admittingthat you have a problem.
(24:43):
Is that what you deal with?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I Look, I wish I had a better answer for you.
Yeah, the true answer,unfortunately, is it's usually
when the wife leaves or gives awatershed moment.
This is over, I'm leaving, Iwant you out, or they discover
an affair, or for a man,unfortunately, there's usually a
watershed moment that wakes himup and goes oh, I'm in trouble.
(25:07):
I wish, I wish I could get theman six months earlier, because
it's like yeah, again, this,this is.
This is one of the very sadthings about marriage is like
the woman very often, almost inevery situation, has given
warning after warning afterwarning, has given instruction
(25:28):
after instruction, has beentelling the man for months and
years what they need to do tosave the marriage.
And unfortunately, like I tellmen, your wife is at least six
months ahead of youthinking-wise.
She's like.
You know, men are road-raged.
Women are considered Like a man.
(25:49):
A thought comes into a man'shead and 30, you know, 30
milliseconds later it comes outof his mouth.
Like a woman is like no, no, no.
I'm like, if she's leaving youtoday, she's been thinking about
this for 18 months and she madethat decision six months ago.
She made it six months ago,brother, she, she hasn't just
decided that now.
And it's like now we're upagainst it right now.
Now we're emergency surgery,now we're really up against it.
(26:12):
It's like if you'd have seenthe writing on the wall six
months ago, 12 months ago andtaking these steps, then 100
chance of success couples, man,if both people in the
relationship are serious aboutsaving their 100 success 100%,
100 times out of 100, can savethe marriage.
But a lot of times it's likeunfortunately the woman has to
(26:37):
snap and now we're really upagainst it.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
You know that that's when the man decides okay, I
need to actually do somethingyeah, do you give them, just
like somebody with a healthcrisis would go to er.
Are there er things that youcan tell a man like oh my gosh,
he's in trauma, his wife justleft, she's been giving him
(27:01):
clues, he didn't hear, he didn'tlisten, and now he's in this
crisis situation.
Is there triage for that?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
yeah, look.
So it's not about the.
The danger here's like yes, butexcuse me, there are things you
can tell your wife that canturn the situation around, that.
There are scripts, there arethings you can do, but it's like
the reality is like all you'redoing is you're buying yourself
another 30 days and at the endof it she's going to be even
(27:36):
more skeptical.
The solution is like here's thetruth.
Your marriage can get betterbecause you can get better, and
your marriage will only getbetter when you get better and
you you've got it.
You've got it like it.
There are only two to understandthe recovery process.
You've got to understand whatyou said yes to in the first
place, or what your wife saidyes to.
And there's only two thingsthat your wife said yes to, and
(27:58):
and that was she loved the waythat you made her feel and she
saw that a future with you wassignificantly better than a
future without you.
When she put those two together, said I love how this man makes
me feel and I can see a betterfuture with him than without him
.
Yes, I will marry this man.
Now.
Everything falls into one ofthose two buckets.
Anything you want to put intothe relationship equation falls
(28:20):
into how it makes you feel orthe future that you perceive
with that person.
Now she's leaving.
The opposite is true.
She hates how you make her feeland she looks at you as a bad
option for the future.
She looks at a future withoutyou as being better than a
future with you.
Now there's no script that'sgoing to change that.
You can't go to your wife andhave a 30-minute conversation
(28:42):
and change that yeah thatthere's only one solution.
It's like you've got to addressthe issue of how am I making my
wife feel and what future am Ipresenting with her?
And you know and a lot of guysgo straight to the future I go
well, I'll buy a boat and I'llsail her around the world like
she doesn't want to get on aboat with satan, you fool, like.
Unless you make her feel goodabout herself, she's not going
(29:04):
to want to get on a boat, she'snot going to want to get in a
car, on a plane, in a hotel room, in a house, in a room.
She's going to see nothing.
She's going to see any futurewith you as a bad future unless
you address how you make herfeel yeah and how you make her
feel is not a script, it's a,it's a philosophy.
It's like well, how do Icommunicate, how do I address,
(29:25):
how do I view my wife?
How do I perceive my wife?
In my mind, you know, it's likedo you view her as the enemy or
do you view her as a teammate?
Is she a willing participant ora hostage?
Most women are just heldhostage in the match.
You know it's like well, you'veheld your wife hostage.
You think she feels good aboutthat.
(29:47):
You hope you're holding your youknow well, you're gonna damage
the kids, you're gonna damagethe finances, you're gonna ruin
yeah, okay.
So hold a gun to your head andhold a hostage.
That's a strategy.
The winning.
It's not a winning strategy,but it's a strategy.
You might get a dismay if youhold a gun to her head, but it's
like you're not going to havepassion, you're not going to
have love.
You know there is only onewinning strategy.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And then it's like you have to look at yourself and
say you got to look in themirror, say I've been weighed,
I've been measured and I've beenfound wanting oh, man, that
that is so true, and I listenedto a lot of podcasts by Leslie
Vernick and Lisa Turkhurst andtheir you know relationship
(30:30):
repair individuals, and so I'veheard a lot of stories about
what you're talking about Womenfeeling like they were held
hostage for 30 and 40 years oftheir lives, and it's so sad
because it can be turned around,like you said, with when the
(30:51):
man works on himself and itbecomes that reflection.
So that leads me to one of myfinal questions is tell me about
your book.
What is that all about and whydid you write it?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
well, cut the bs and no nonsense guide to happiness
is like what else is there?
You know, it's like we peel thelayer of the onion back.
It's like anything that you do.
It's like if we just ask thequestion well, why, why are you
doing that?
Why is that important?
You want your wife to come back?
Why, why do you want her tocome back?
Because for my family, okay.
Well, why, why is thatimportant?
Like, if we keep peeling thatonion.
(31:29):
I'm hungry and she needs to makemy toast yeah, ultimately, it's
like it's because I want to behappy and I think that that'll
make me happy.
Why do you want to make moremoney?
Because I that that'll make mehappy.
Why do you want to make moremoney?
Because I think that'll make mehappy.
Why do you want a new car?
Because I think that'll make.
It's like, ultimately,happiness is all there is in
life.
There's nothing else.
If you arrive at a place ofhappiness, you've won.
(31:50):
You're at the top of themountain and I found myself in a
place of great dissatisfactionand great unhappiness, and
happiness became my lifeobsession and it's like what is
happiness and why is it soelusive?
And I found happiness.
I found that place of happinessand I found that place of
(32:10):
satisfaction and I recovered andI just want to put it out there
.
It's like, hey, this worked forme.
I think it'll work for you too.
It's worked for a lot of peopleand ultimately, this is
leadership, right again, goingback to the beginning of the
conversation, your wife just allyour wife wants is to be happy.
That's all she wants, man.
She wants to be happy.
(32:31):
And if you're miserable andunhappy, why is she going to
fall?
Where are you leading her tolike if you're unhappy, where
can you lead her?
But to a place of unhappiness.
There's nothing, you know, youcan't lead her anywhere good,
whereas if you have happinesswhich, honestly, michelle, is a
very elusive thing not very manypeople find it.
When you actually find thathappiness and you truly have it,
you're very, you become verymagnetic and it's like everybody
(32:53):
is gonna want to know where itis, want to know where that's
what happiness is a formula.
It's not something a few luckypeople are given.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It's a formula that, if we follow it, happiness is
available to each and every oneof us no, that's so true and I'm
glad that it's a number onebest sellerller and I'm, you
know, I'm I hope it gets intothe hands of as many people as
possible, because I think thatis true.
(33:30):
And my final question to youbefore I ask, like, where can
people connect with you?
How can they follow you?
And and I imagine that, sinceyou said about the youtube that
women are going to flock to theyoutube station to like, oh,
this guy knows what he's talkingabout, but I want to ask you,
(33:52):
like I guess it's like can?
The bible says when a man findsa wife, he finds a good thing.
So is there a secret happinessequation that a man can use if
he's single and he's seeking awife?
(34:15):
Is there some magnet there thathe can attract the kind of
woman he's looking for, if thatmakes sense?
That was kind of a convolutedquestion.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, look, regardless if he's going to
attract the kind of woman he'slooking for, the problem is he
doesn't have clarity about whathe's looking for.
You know, he might just go.
I want a woman that does thisand this and this.
And it's like, yeah, okay, well, that's half of one percent of
the relationship and you getthat.
But it's like, what about therest?
It's like clarity is a forcemodel.
Clarity is a force multiplier.
(34:49):
Focus is a force multiplier.
It's like it's getting really,really focused about what you
want and and, to be honest withyou, it's about the real
question is like firstly, getclear about what you want.
And the second question, whichis even more important, is like
what kind of man would I have tobe to attract that kind of
woman?
Like for me, for me personally,to attract the kind of woman
(35:14):
that I want.
Like you know, when I was, whenI was single and I was looking
for a wife, for me to attractthe kind of woman that I want,
for her to say yes, I've got tobe pretty damn spectacular, I've
got to be pretty down to it,because the woman I want is not
taking sloppy seconds, she's nottaking second best, like the
woman that I want has got highstandards.
The wife that I want rejectseverything other than the best
(35:39):
and she doesn't accept anythingother than the highest standard.
So if I want, I can't have thatwoman if I'm not that man.
So the real question is whowould I have to become to
attract that woman?
Who would I have to become forthat woman to be attracted to me
?
I've got to be a man ofintegrity.
I've got to be a man of honesty.
I've got to be a man who doeswhat he says he's going to do.
I've got to to be ambitious.
I've got to be motivated.
I've got to seek to understandbefore seeking to be understood.
(36:02):
I've got to give before I get.
I've got to be willing tosacrifice my need for her need.
These are the characteristicsand qualities of what that woman
would be looking for.
So if I, if I she's, thatwoman's out there looking, you
know I'm in a park right now,that you know, if you're a
single man, that woman isprobably in this park walking
around looking for you.
And if you guys are notconnecting this because you're
(36:24):
not the man you need to be toattract that woman right now.
So get clear about what youwant, then get clear about the
man that you would have to be toattract her and then focus on
becoming that man, not focusedon getting her yes, and I
wholeheartedly agree with that.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And the same, the flip the script.
The same applies to women too.
You have to be the best versionof yourself, because I think
there's a lot of women out therethat they want the upper
echelon man.
But what do you?
You don't, you don't cook, youdon't, you can't carry on an
(37:01):
intelligent conversation.
You I mean, there's so manythings, and yet they want.
This man up here, or the manyou know wants a woman, a high
caliber woman, but you're notgoing to attract that unless you
are that like, like, attractslike man.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
If you're not attracting a high value woman
right now, bottom line brothers,you're not a high value man and
again, the truth will set youfree.
That's a beautiful thing,because once you can say I'm not
a high value man, okay, well,is that fixable?
Of course it is.
Of course it is like it's hard.
It's not a mystery what a highvalue man is like a man who's
(37:41):
ambitious, got integrity, gothonesty, puts other people.
It's like we, it's known like.
These are characteristics thatcan be developed and whatever
you are is what you'reattracting.
It's like saying like I don'treally speak to the woman side
of things.
I don't want to say like you'rea low value woman, that's not,
that's not where I come from,but like, if you're, if you're
(38:01):
not attracting a high value man,you're a low value woman.
It's like, it's as simple asthat and if you do happen to
attract a high value man, youwon't keep it.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, and that's a hard people to embrace.
That's really hard because youhave to put in the work to
become that.
It's not like okay, well, I'mnot, that you can become that.
It doesn't mean you just settlefor who you are right now and
you're just like, you know, likethat.
You have to work at that.
(38:35):
Just like in a marriage, youhave to work to keep the flames
going, to keep the emotionalintimacy.
It doesn't happen magicallywell, look, let me.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Let me finish with this.
I know you need to go.
I think that the major issuewith marriage is people don't
understand what it is.
A marriage is somewhere you goto give.
It's not somewhere you go toget.
And if you go into a marriageto get, you're going to be
disillusioned and you're goingto be unhappy unless you
understand a marriage is a placethat you give and to contribute
(39:10):
and you may never get anythingback.
Like the marriage contract, themarriage covenant is a one-way
promise that you make to yourwife or your wife makes to you
that she makes.
That offers nothing in return.
I promise to have and to hold,to, love and to cherish, for
better or for worse, till death.
Do us part, regardless of howshe behaves back towards me,
(39:32):
regardless, and this is thenumber one thing, right?
We say we'll become a man ofintegrity.
Well, a man of integrityupholds.
Man of integrity upholds hispromise, upholds his word.
You promised to love your wifeforever, regardless of what you
get back, and now you're going.
Well, I'm not getting much back, so how long do I put up with
this?
Forever, brother, forever.
Yeah, honor your word.
(39:55):
You said that you would loveher like christ, loved the
church forever, regardless ofwhat she does or how she met the
.
The promise that you made toyour wife is the same promise
that christ made towards you.
He promised to love you,regardless of how you behave,
back indefinitely, irrevocably,with security.
And it's like yeah this.
(40:17):
this is the man of ephesians,right, the husbands of ephesians
.
It's like you promised to loveyour wife unconditionally,
irrevocably, irrespective of herbehavior.
Honor that you know, men going.
Well, how long do I put up withnot getting my needs met?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Forever, yes, Forever , brother, if you're a high
value man, Forever.
Not everybody deals with that.
Well, I mean it's just like,okay, she's not meeting my needs
anymore, so okay, well, let'sgo our separate ways.
(40:51):
I mean, it happens every dayand it's so sad to me because
the commitment just isn't there.
The level of commitment, whatyou just described, is what it's
supposed to be like.
It's what christ designed for amarriage to be forever giving,
not getting forever giving andand hopefully you know people go
(41:16):
well.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
You know my wife made the same front.
Yeah, well, that she's going tobe held accountable for that.
You are not the one to hold heraccountable.
Her promise was you know,there's no accountability.
Man Like you can't hold yourwife accountable for her promise
.
She's responsible for that.
She's responsible for herbehavior.
You're responsible for yourbehavior and her behavior
(41:38):
doesn't excuse your behavior.
Brother, it's like independent,mutually exclusive events.
If you go, well, she's behavingbadly, so I can behave badly.
You are a low value male, myfriend.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
And you wonder why your marriage is falling apart.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
You are a low value male.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, those are come to come to Jesusesus meeting
words, as they say.
You know, it's your hard, ahard truth that you have to come
to grips with and then dosomething about it jesus told
the truth and they took him outback and nailed him to a tree.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
If you want to piss people off, man, speak the truth
, like the truth offends people,but it's the truth that'll set
you free.
It's like you know if you're alow value male and you think
you're a high value male like we, we can't go to work on the
problem.
It's like we've got to have anaccurate diagnosis to have an
accurate treatment plan yeah,yeah and and this, this is, this
(42:36):
is the truth.
You know, it's like it's why somany men fail, man, is because
they're just not willing to lookat themselves.
They're not willing to look atthemselves and go.
I'm the problem, not to saythat your wife's, you know, not
without her problems.
Of course she is, but herproblems are not your problems,
man.
She's going to give account forthose, not you.
You're going to give accountfor your words, your problems,
your deeds your actions,problems, your deeds, your
(43:02):
action.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
That's your responsibility.
Oh, that's so deep.
I bet the men that you coachare greatly helped and lives are
changed, and I'm really gladthat we got to talk today and I
want to, you know, ask youfinally how can people connect
with you?
How can they find you on socialmedia, follow you on youtube?
Give us everything.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
So you, youtube's really my favorite place because
, like it gets you to experiencelike you know, like you get to
experience me firsthand, like Ipublish coaching calls that I do
with with clients and stufflike that, with their permission
, so you can see like we gothrough real coaching situations
and you get more of this.
So youtube if you just googlecody butler, better marriage on
youtube or you just go to searchI think it's code, I don't know
(43:49):
the name of the channel, Iprobably should, but if you just
go to the search bar and putcody butler better marriage,
you'll, you'll find me there.
That's that's the main way.
You'll find links in thedescriptions and then better
marriagecom is uh, is anotherplace.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Kind of you can get some free training and some
stuff there as well oh, perfect,if you want to learn more about
what we do here yes, and I'llput all those in the the show
notes, because this will be onyoutube as well, and LinkedIn
and Twitter or X and.
Facebook.
(44:23):
So it will be, you know, allover the place, and I'll include
all those links in there whichI'm sure you will send me
afterward.
That would be really helpful, Isure will.
So anyway, thank you, Cody.
Any parting words of wisdom forthe men out there.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Yeah, there's hope.
There's hope, you know, as longas there's life in the body.
Look, I'm going to go just onetiny little preach, if that's
all right.
Yes, as a parting gift.
There's no circumstance wheregod, it's god's will that your
marriage ends, not not onepossible circumstance.
And I know people are going tosay well, what about in the
event of sex?
Yet no, there's permissible.
(45:08):
There's permissible divorce,like god will permit divorce in
certain circumstances.
But he clearly said it was mypreference that you reconcile.
Only through the hardening ofyour heart will I commit divorce
.
In this situation, I can tellyou categorically it's god's
will that your marriage isrestored.
100.
There's no circumstance wherethat is not the case.
If your marriage is not beingrestored, it's because you're
getting in the way.
The only thing that god's wordcannot return void.
(45:32):
And if it is returning void,it's because you brother and
it's like.
There's not a circumstancewhere your marriage can't be
healed if you return to God'sword.
I can tell you that assuredly.
I've seen it with my own eyes.
You know we're at the end here,so we'll use some flowery
language.
I see miracles all the time,man, all the time.
I see miracles in marriage allthe time and there is hope it is
(45:52):
possible, and that's where itstarts.
It doesn't matter how bad it is, I don't care what's happened.
There's hope it's possible.
Um check out some of our videos, man.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
It's like that's a good place to start if you're in
that situation, okay, that thatis awesome.
Thank you so much, cody, forbeing a guest and for sharing
your wisdom and for sharing sometidbits of, of just nuggets of
gold for the men and for peoplein general to to just grab a
hold of and redeem and restore.
(46:24):
That's what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
That's exactly what it's about, absolutely so.
Thanks for having me and givingme this opportunity to share.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
I appreciate that and everybody until next time.
Thank you for watching anotherepisode of winning proof
unscripted.
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hi everybody.
It's Michelle Hill, your legacybuilder at Winning Proof, and I
have a special guest today andthe audience today.
I usually have podcasts thatspeak to everybody, and this
will speak to everybody, butit's geared toward men.
Man, listen, there's somereally valuable information
(00:27):
coming, and so I'm going to readCody, this is Cody Butler.
He is in Australia and so youmight recognize, let me put my
phone on mute.
That's a terrible podcast thingto do, podcast thing to do.
And so, cody, it's early in themorning, I believe for you,
(00:49):
cody, correct, it's not tooearly.
10 am, oh, it's not too early,okay, and it's eight o'clock and
I am like this is late for me.
And so we're just going to havea great conversation and I'm
going to open by just reading alittle bit of Cody's bio.
(01:09):
Cody Butler, the founder ofBetter Marriage and creator of
the Marriage Recovery Process,teaches couples how to repair
intimacy, restore communicationand rebuild their marriages
communication and rebuild theirmarriages.
(01:29):
Cody's unique, faith-basedapproach seamlessly integrates
cutting-edge neuroscience withdeep spiritual insights,
revolutionizing the way couplesheal and reconnect.
Our proprietary Neuro EmotionalDialogue NED method provides
solutions that are bothscientifically sound and
spiritually enriching.
As the number one best-sellingauthor of Cut the BS, a
(01:55):
No-Nonsense Guide to Happinessand a sought-after guest on Fox,
abc and NBC, cody brings awealth of knowledge and a proven
track record of success.
He has already helped thousandsof couples develop the skills
needed to succeed in marriage intoday's new normal.
(02:15):
So, cody, welcome, welcome,welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Thank you for having me, Michelle.
Good to be here.
Thank you for having me,Michelle.
It's good to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Thank you.
Yeah, let's dive in.
Like I said, this podcast isreally geared toward men and I
want to discuss, like one ofyour topics is how to be the
husband of Ephesians 5 that willsave any marriage.
What does that mean?
Ephesians 5, that will save anymarriage?
(02:43):
What?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
does that mean?
Yeah, it's being a high-valuemale.
Basically it's being a man thatyour wife.
We talk about leadership and alot of.
There's a fine line betweenleadership and tyranny, and
(03:11):
leadership is somebody that thatyou voluntarily fire, one you
know, follow.
One of the one of the uhanalogies that I always make is
like how does, how do you getmen to advance into fire, into a
battle?
How do you get them to advanceinto certain death?
And it's like the answer is youhave to be willing to take the
first arrow, you have to bewilling to take the first bullet
.
You can't be the general up onthe hill saying men, advance
into battle.
I'll be up here because if Iget killed, you're all in
trouble and it's like.
You know, it's not feminism ormasculinism or masculinity or
(03:31):
anything like that, it's just acase of like.
When you provide genuineleadership, everybody is going
to want to follow you, male orfemale.
And that's where we want to getto is a place where you're
going somewhere good, you'releading.
You're going somewhere good,you're leading.
You're going somewhere goodyourself, and everybody can look
at you and go he's goingsomewhere good or she's going
somewhere good.
I would like to follow thatperson to that place and that's
(03:52):
leading them to a better place,not leading them through demand
or command or because you thinkyou have some authority or
God-given right to lead.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Okay, yeah, and that makes sense.
And I think people, especiallyfaith-based people, people in
the church, they think ofEphesians 5 as an impossible
task, like it's an ideal thatthey can't ever live up to.
But you talk about leading withlove, and what does that look
(04:25):
like in the trenches of everydaymarriage?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
well, especially from a faith-based perspective.
We're talking men, men withinthe church you know men in
general as well but like,particularly within the church,
and they feel like they havesome right to tell their wife
what to do, or they have someGod-given authority to, you know
, put their thumb down on theirwife or their partner and tell
them what to do.
And the reality is, it's likeleadership is about what we just
(04:57):
said, right?
It's like, if you're unhappy,it's like marriage, in a lot of
cases, two starving peoplecoming together saying let's
share each other's food.
When, when, the reality is it'slike if, if you follow me,
you're going to get what I'vegot, if I follow you, you're
going, I'm going to get whatyou've got.
And if you're depressed, you'renegative, the sky's falling
(05:17):
down.
You're unhappy, you'refinancially destitute uh, you
have nothing desirable.
Why would I follow that?
Well, you know to go to, cometo me and say god's given me
authority that and you mustfollow me.
It's like, well, that's insane.
It's like if I'm, if I'm happy,I'm positive, I've got friends,
(05:37):
I've got social life, I've gotfinances, I've got a happy
marriage, I've got children thatlove me, I've got good health,
I've got.
I've got a lot of the thingsthat that is desirable.
I don't have to say follow me.
People are going to come to meand say you have a lot of stuff
that I would like.
How did you get that code?
And that that's where it's likeit, that that's where the real
(05:59):
leadership comes from and thatthat's where we want to.
That's what's missing in themarriage.
That that type of leadershipmichelle is like.
Men are coming to their wivessaying you need to respect me,
you need to follow me, you needto fill in the blank.
But the reality is well, whathave you given her to follow?
What have you given her torespect?
And if you want to be respected, give that person something to
(06:21):
respect.
If you want to be followed,give them, show them that you're
going somewhere worth following.
And it's leading throughexample, not not leading through
command and demand.
And I think that's really wherewe go wrong.
A lot of times, michelle islike we just think we have some
divine right to be respected andit's like no, that's not.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
That's not how it works yeah that, thank you for
sharing that.
That is really important tounderstand.
Now, what can a husband do ifhe does have those traits and he
is a natural leader by exampleand how he's conducting his life
(07:01):
, but his wife is not on board,she is reluctant, she is
resistant?
Is there a way he can keepbeing that leader when it
doesn't seem like anybody isfollowing?
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Well, if nobody's following, it's because you're
going nowhere desirable If youwant to know.
Ultimately, it's like you'vegot to look at yourself and go
am I delusional?
Am I crazy?
It's like I talk to people inbusiness all the time they go
I've got a great business, I'vegot a product that people want,
I've got great marketing, I'vegot great sales, but you broke.
(07:39):
It's like there's a disconnecthere.
It's like the fruit will tellyou what the root of the tree is
.
And if, if nobody is respectingyou, maybe you're behaving in a
way that doesn't garner respect.
In in the same way, like youknow, we've all met these people
that they're 50 poundsoverweight and they go I eat
(08:02):
nothing.
I exercise all the time and Ieat nothing.
No, you're delusional.
It's like you don't.
You don't eat a healthy dietand you don't exercise on a
regular basis and be 50 or 60 or100 pounds overweight.
It's like you're delusional.
You created something in yourmind that simply isn't true and
the the the secret here toeverything.
(08:25):
And it's like jesus says knowthe truth, because it is the
truth that will set you free.
It's not your delusionalconcept of what you want the
truth to be or what you thinkthe truth is and again, the
reality is, the smartest thingto do is, if you're overweight
is not to say well, I'm eatingthe right diet and I'm doing the
right amount of exercise.
It's going.
I'm missing something.
Yeah, doing the right amount ofexercise is going.
(08:46):
I'm missing something, yeah.
If, if you're in a marriagethat your wife doesn't respect
you or your wife isn't followingyou, then the smart thing to do
is say I'm maybe I'm missingsomething here, but our tendency
is to blame the other personand to look at the other person
and go I'm doing right, so theymust be wrong is what happens.
And we've got to start withourselves.
(09:08):
And we've got to start reallyintrospectively, looking at
ourselves and looking in themirror.
And the problem lies with usand the solution lies with us.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and I
think we are, as humans, quickto blame other people.
It's not us, it's not me, itmust be someone else's fault.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Exactly so that'll be someone else.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
How are, what are some communication keys that a
man can, a husband can use toget maybe a non-communicative
wife to open up and communicatewith him without forcing the
issue?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Look, that's a great question, Michelle.
I talk to men all the time theygo.
My wife just doesn't liketalking.
I'm like no, no, no.
So she doesn't like talking toyou.
I guarantee she likes talkingand I guarantee she's talking to
people about it's like no, no,no.
She like that's an absurd,insane statement.
My wife doesn't like talking.
That's like saying a dogdoesn't like barking.
(10:16):
Women talk, they love talking.
And ultimately like look,here's the number one, here's
the number like this this is thenugget.
If you're a man and you're in amarriage, take this away,
because this, this is wortheverything.
The number one thing that youneed in a marriage, for a happy
marriage, is emotional safety.
If your woman is notcommunicating with you is
because she doesn't feelemotionally safe to do so.
(10:38):
That's the truth, you know.
And and guys ask me all thetime they go I've got two
questions Is my marriage savableand how long is it going to
take to save?
And I'm like can you createemotional safety and how long is
it going to take for you to doit?
That's everything, job done.
So in every situation, thesmart man, the husband that
(11:03):
really cares about his wife andwants to be there for her should
be asking the question am Ibuilding or destroying emotional
safety in this conversation?
Am I working towards emotionalsafety or am I tearing it down?
Because if you're building it,your marriage is growing.
If you're tearing it down, yourmarriage is dying.
There's no in-between.
And let me define Michellequickly, if I may, what
(11:24):
emotional safety is from myperspective, because it's kind
of an abstract term.
Yes, because men will go.
Well, of course, my wife's gotemotional safety.
Well, hang on.
A second right hang on.
Emotional safety is the abilitythat your wife, the percentage
of your wife that she can beherself, what percentage of the
time?
So the gold standard is yourwife can be 100 of herself, 100
(11:48):
of her time of the time.
That's the gold standard.
That is emotional safety at thehighest level.
She feels like she cancompletely express herself,
however she feels, at any point,without fear any kind of
repercussions, and a lot oftimes what happens is a woman
expresses herself and she'spunished for it, and then she
(12:09):
expresses herself again andshe's punished for it.
Yes, and after a while sheshe's learned, because every
time she talks, she punishes,she learns that speaking to you
is painful, pointless or both,probably both painful and
pointless, and you've trainedher that talking is pointless.
So she stops talking based onyour training.
(12:31):
And now you start accusing herof stonewalling, so you create
the problem and then accuse herof becoming the problem.
So not only have you createdthe problem, you're now accusing
her of being the problem andit's like now it's a double
whammy.
It's like she knows she's notthe problem.
So she's like I've doneeverything I can do to talk to
you.
I've done everything I can doto communicate with you, how to
(12:53):
save this marriage, how toimprove it, and every time I do,
you punish me.
So I stop communicating becauseyou're punishing me.
And now you're accusing me ofstonewalling because I'm doing
what you trained me to do.
And here's the man going mywife's the problem.
My wife knows.
So she's not the problem, she'sa product of your leadership
and you've led her to believethat she can't talk.
(13:15):
She's a product of yourleadership, that's all she is.
Lead her, lead her.
Show her, through yourleadership, that she has the
emotional safety to communicate.
And guess what she will do?
100 times out of 100, she willcommunicate.
So that's a great place tostart, michelle.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Oh, that's so great and so true, so, so true.
I love that.
And so connected to thatcommunication and that emotional
safety is.
You know, men and I know we'rediving into maybe an area that
people feel a little bituncomfortable talking about on a
(13:54):
podcast, I don't, but when itcomes to the sexual intimacy,
like women have to feel thatconnection.
They just don't want to be anobject, and so how can a man
really nurture his wife so,especially if she's a little bit
(14:15):
reluctant and she's really notinto it that much, how can he
nurture an environment thatinvites meaningful getting
together, meaningful sexualintimacy?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Well, that's a great question.
I mean, it's probably thenumber one complaint and the
number one motivator of men,right?
But the answer is the same.
It's like if your wife is notwanting to be intimate with you,
it's because she has noemotional safety with you.
If your wife is not wanting tobe intimate with you, it's
because she's has no emotionalsafety.
It's as simple as that.
It's like, you know, most men Iwork with they think their
wives are just these demoniccreatures that just want to make
(14:54):
them miserable all the time.
It's like if you make your wifehappy, she will, she will.
It doesn't matter if she's soinclined, if she feels that way
or not.
She's very likely toaccommodate you because she
loves you and she wants to seeyou happy.
But that's again, this is it'sleadership.
It's leading your wife to aplace where, in that place, it
(15:15):
says, hey, your needs are moreimportant than my needs.
This is the you know.
Go back to your earlierquestion that what is the
husband of Ephesians 5?
It's a man that puts his wife'sneeds before his own.
To simplify it, it's a man whoputs his wife's needs before his
own.
Most men say, well, I'd lay mylife down for my family.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Well, yeah, you'd lay your life down, but would you
lay your needs down?
That's really profound.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, you're not gonna be asked yeah, that's rare
you're not gonna be asked tolay.
It's easy to say I'd lay mylife down for my family.
Well, yeah, what's the chancesof that happening?
It's, it's.
It's a throwaway statement,right?
It's like you're never going tobe tested.
But it's like if I say I'mwilling to lay my needs down for
my wife's needs, oh, I'm goingto be tested in the next hour.
(16:13):
Good, yes yeah, you know, andultimately it's like one of the
things we say we have a program.
One thing we say is like themirror never lies.
It's like if you're not gettingyour needs because you're not
meeting me okay, if you'regetting hostility.
It's because you're givinghostility.
Your marriage is nothing morewhat your wife has been brought
to you to highlight your owninefficiency yeah, she's a
(16:36):
mirror.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Basically, what you're saying is she's a mirror
of your leadership.
She's a mirror of how youconduct yourself and how you
treat her yes, right, don't getme wrong.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Like it's the same the other way as well.
It's not just the one, what youknow.
Obviously we're talking aboutmen in this conversation but
it's like your husband if you'rea woman, your husband is a man
as well, so yeah pretty muchthat that's reflective.
I mean, obviously, like a man'sneed is not emotional safety,
has different needs.
So we're talking really fromthe perspective of, of, you know
, the man helping the woman moveto a better place within the
(17:09):
marriage at this point.
But yeah, it's seek tounderstand before seeking to be
understood.
And I'll give you a quickexample, michelle, a lot of guys
that I work with go, if my wifecould only understand how I
feel, if my wife, if I couldonly communicate how much I love
her.
I'm like me, me, me, me, me.
I'm like you're asking me.
I'm like you're trying.
(17:29):
You're asking me how can I beunderstood?
I'm like the question is notthe problem, is that's all you
care about.
Is her understanding?
You like if you could turn thataround and go, I seek to
understand my wife beforeseeking to be understood my
myself.
Watch what will happen in yourmarriage.
It'll be insane what willhappen.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
And go on, go on, michelle, sorry no, that what
you're saying is so real and sotrue and I have talked to you
know, men along the way thathave said, yes, to get my wife
amorous, I need to give her acouple glasses of wine.
I need to do these externalthings so she is, you know, in
(18:15):
the mood.
But what you're saying makes somuch sense because it's not the
couple glasses of wine, it'sthe how you're treating her,
it's how you're presentingyourself as a man to her,
correct?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
well again, michelle, like like okay, well, that man
like I'm I'm gonna throw it outthere and risk criticism here
it's like, basically, you'resaying I'm a man that needs,
that's happy and willing to drugmy wife to get sex out of it,
that's the type of man you are.
I'm a man that's happy to drugmy wife wife to have sex, so
she'll have sex with me.
It's like okay, well, you'resome kind of leader we all want
(18:51):
to follow.
Why would she want to have sexwith a man that's quite happy to
drug her to get what he wants?
Obviously, I'm going to theedge of the envelope here, but
that's what's going on.
It's like you don't need togive your wife drugs to get her
to have.
Like, give her the emotionaldrugs, give her the emotional
(19:12):
endorsement, like that's what.
Give her what she needs.
It's like it's this stuff'svery easy.
And here's the thing I've got aYouTube channel and I've got
some videos on there on what todo in a sexless marriage.
If you're a man, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Everybody will tune in to that one.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
If you're a man, okay , everybody will tune into that
one.
I've got a series of commentsfrom women saying this guy's
spot on, listen to him.
And then I've got a series ofcomments from men going this
guy's a bozo, he should bebanned from youtube.
It's like all of the men aresaying this guy's clueless and
the women are saying listen tohim, this is what you need to do
if you want to have sex with me.
And it's like this is again.
This is the, the leadershipthat you know.
(19:54):
A good leader is not.
A good leader invites criticism.
A good leader invitesconstructive dialogue.
A good leader invitesalternative and opposing
opinions yeah, that's what agood leader does and then brings
all of those elements into thedecision-making process and it's
like marriage is a partnershipand if you don't involve your
(20:17):
woman in the decision-makingprocess, how's she going to feel
a partner, how's she going tofeel like you're on this journey
together?
You know, and and I think youknow one of the big things I
tell men I'm like women don'twant much man, they want to jump
, they want a general word, theywant a kind touch and they want
to feel like it's you and heragainst the world.
(20:38):
That's it, yeah.
And it's like how can it be youand her against the world when
she doesn't have much input oryou've destroyed emotional
safety so she can't have input?
It's you against the world withher in tow as the maid.
Like, yeah, yeah, that's whatit is like.
(21:02):
Most men are nothing more than alodger in their own house.
That's all they are.
And it's like well, how doesshe feel like she's a part of
this relationship?
It's like you know, if you wantto save your marriage, start
acting like you're married, bro.
Start acting like you'remarried.
Don't act like it's singleindividual in a married home
with all the benefits of beingmarried but none of the
(21:22):
drawbacks, and then go.
I want to save my marriage.
If you want to save yourmarriage, start acting.
Acting like you're marriedbrother.
Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Start behaving like you're married.
I used to.
I remember telling myex-husband at one point like I'm
not even on the back burner,I'm not even on the stove you
know, I'd like to be anafterthought.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I'd like to be an afterthought right now.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Exactly, exactly so.
You coach a lot of men throughmarriages, relationship.
You know the issues in theirmarriage.
What are the top say?
Three things that you seerepeated that men come to you
for that they really need helpin.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Well, look, what they come to me for and what they
need help in are two differentthings.
What they think they need helpin is getting their wives to
comply, getting their wives tobend to their will, getting
their wives to see their opinion, getting their wives to
understand their point.
That's what they think theyneed.
But at the end of the day, whatthey really need is they need
(22:32):
to understand what emotionalsafety is and how to create.
You know, I I like we've gottwo.
We've got two elements here.
For a man it's sex, for a womanit's communication.
And I tell you know, it's likewhen I talk to women, I say,
well, if she's not giving, ifshe's not engaging in sexual
activity, for whatever reason,I'm like, okay, you've got your
(22:54):
reasons, whatever, I get it.
But look at it like this it'slike if your husband didn't talk
to you for five years, wouldyou want to be married to him?
If your husband said I'm justnot talking to you because I
don't feel like it, where wouldthat leave you?
I'm just not talking to youbecause I don't feel like it,
where would that leave you?
I'm like marriages are grown upbusiness and it's like there's
an element of sacrifice on bothsides.
There's an element of give andtake on both sides and it's the
(23:16):
same with.
It's the same with with a man.
You know it's like they go well.
My wife hasn't given me sex forfive years.
What have you talked to her inthe last five years Other than
for sex?
It's like, if she's not, ifshe's not giving you intimacy,
it's because if she's not givingyou physical intimacy, it's
because you're not giving heremotional intimacy.
End of end of conversation.
(23:38):
Like if you don't agree with me, don't work with me, because
that's I'm not gonna, I'm nothaving that conversation.
If she's not giving youphysical intimacy, it's because
you're not giving her emotionalintimacy.
And it's like which came first,the chicken or the egg?
Well, I can tell you, in thiscase, emotional intimacy comes
before sexual intimacy.
That, and it's like if youdon't like that, don't call me
(23:59):
exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
So, based on what you just said and what men need
versus what they're saying theyneed, how do you break that
barrier of getting men to reallyunderstand that and take that
first step?
Because I can imagine theresistance is there.
(24:23):
I can imagine that you're fullof you know, baloney is there.
So how do you get them to tojust say, oh okay, like, like in
, uh, I don't know alcoholicsanonymous, say I know the first
step, they say, is admittingthat you have a problem.
(24:43):
Is that what you deal with?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I Look, I wish I had a better answer for you.
Yeah, the true answer,unfortunately, is it's usually
when the wife leaves or gives awatershed moment.
This is over, I'm leaving, Iwant you out, or they discover
an affair, or for a man,unfortunately, there's usually a
watershed moment that wakes himup and goes oh, I'm in trouble.
(25:07):
I wish, I wish I could get theman six months earlier, because
it's like yeah, again, this,this is.
This is one of the very sadthings about marriage is like
the woman very often, almost inevery situation, has given
warning after warning afterwarning, has given instruction
(25:28):
after instruction, has beentelling the man for months and
years what they need to do tosave the marriage.
And unfortunately, like I tellmen, your wife is at least six
months ahead of youthinking-wise.
She's like.
You know, men are road-raged.
Women are considered Like a man.
(25:49):
A thought comes into a man'shead and 30, you know, 30
milliseconds later it comes outof his mouth.
Like a woman is like no, no, no.
I'm like, if she's leaving youtoday, she's been thinking about
this for 18 months and she madethat decision six months ago.
She made it six months ago,brother, she, she hasn't just
decided that now.
And it's like now we're upagainst it right now.
Now we're emergency surgery,now we're really up against it.
(26:12):
It's like if you'd have seenthe writing on the wall six
months ago, 12 months ago andtaking these steps, then 100
chance of success couples, man,if both people in the
relationship are serious aboutsaving their 100 success 100%,
100 times out of 100, can savethe marriage.
But a lot of times it's likeunfortunately the woman has to
(26:37):
snap and now we're really upagainst it.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
You know that that's when the man decides okay, I
need to actually do somethingyeah, do you give them, just
like somebody with a healthcrisis would go to er.
Are there er things that youcan tell a man like oh my gosh,
he's in trauma, his wife justleft, she's been giving him
(27:01):
clues, he didn't hear, he didn'tlisten, and now he's in this
crisis situation.
Is there triage for that?
Speaker 1 (27:14):
yeah, look.
So it's not about the.
The danger here's like yes, butexcuse me, there are things you
can tell your wife that canturn the situation around, that.
There are scripts, there arethings you can do, but it's like
the reality is like all you'redoing is you're buying yourself
another 30 days and at the endof it she's going to be even
(27:36):
more skeptical.
The solution is like here's thetruth.
Your marriage can get betterbecause you can get better, and
your marriage will only getbetter when you get better and
you you've got it.
You've got it like it.
There are only two to understandthe recovery process.
You've got to understand whatyou said yes to in the first
place, or what your wife saidyes to.
And there's only two thingsthat your wife said yes to, and
(27:58):
and that was she loved the waythat you made her feel and she
saw that a future with you wassignificantly better than a
future without you.
When she put those two together, said I love how this man makes
me feel and I can see a betterfuture with him than without him
.
Yes, I will marry this man.
Now.
Everything falls into one ofthose two buckets.
Anything you want to put intothe relationship equation falls
(28:20):
into how it makes you feel orthe future that you perceive
with that person.
Now she's leaving.
The opposite is true.
She hates how you make her feeland she looks at you as a bad
option for the future.
She looks at a future withoutyou as being better than a
future with you.
Now there's no script that'sgoing to change that.
You can't go to your wife andhave a 30-minute conversation
(28:42):
and change that yeah thatthere's only one solution.
It's like you've got to addressthe issue of how am I making my
wife feel and what future am Ipresenting with her?
And you know and a lot of guysgo straight to the future I go
well, I'll buy a boat and I'llsail her around the world like
she doesn't want to get on aboat with satan, you fool, like.
Unless you make her feel goodabout herself, she's not going
(29:04):
to want to get on a boat, she'snot going to want to get in a
car, on a plane, in a hotel room, in a house, in a room.
She's going to see nothing.
She's going to see any futurewith you as a bad future unless
you address how you make herfeel yeah and how you make her
feel is not a script, it's a,it's a philosophy.
It's like well, how do Icommunicate, how do I address,
(29:25):
how do I view my wife?
How do I perceive my wife?
In my mind, you know, it's likedo you view her as the enemy or
do you view her as a teammate?
Is she a willing participant ora hostage?
Most women are just heldhostage in the match.
You know it's like well, you'veheld your wife hostage.
You think she feels good aboutthat.
(29:47):
You hope you're holding your youknow well, you're gonna damage
the kids, you're gonna damagethe finances, you're gonna ruin
yeah, okay.
So hold a gun to your head andhold a hostage.
That's a strategy.
The winning.
It's not a winning strategy,but it's a strategy.
You might get a dismay if youhold a gun to her head, but it's
like you're not going to havepassion, you're not going to
have love.
You know there is only onewinning strategy.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And then it's like you have to look at yourself and
say you got to look in themirror, say I've been weighed,
I've been measured and I've beenfound wanting oh, man, that
that is so true, and I listenedto a lot of podcasts by Leslie
Vernick and Lisa Turkhurst andtheir you know relationship
(30:30):
repair individuals, and so I'veheard a lot of stories about
what you're talking about Womenfeeling like they were held
hostage for 30 and 40 years oftheir lives, and it's so sad
because it can be turned around,like you said, with when the
(30:51):
man works on himself and itbecomes that reflection.
So that leads me to one of myfinal questions is tell me about
your book.
What is that all about and whydid you write it?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
well, cut the bs and no nonsense guide to happiness
is like what else is there?
You know, it's like we peel thelayer of the onion back.
It's like anything that you do.
It's like if we just ask thequestion well, why, why are you
doing that?
Why is that important?
You want your wife to come back?
Why, why do you want her tocome back?
Because for my family, okay.
Well, why, why is thatimportant?
Like, if we keep peeling thatonion.
(31:29):
I'm hungry and she needs to makemy toast yeah, ultimately, it's
like it's because I want to behappy and I think that that'll
make me happy.
Why do you want to make moremoney?
Because I that that'll make mehappy.
Why do you want to make moremoney?
Because I think that'll make mehappy.
Why do you want a new car?
Because I think that'll make.
It's like, ultimately,happiness is all there is in
life.
There's nothing else.
If you arrive at a place ofhappiness, you've won.
(31:50):
You're at the top of themountain and I found myself in a
place of great dissatisfactionand great unhappiness, and
happiness became my lifeobsession and it's like what is
happiness and why is it soelusive?
And I found happiness.
I found that place of happinessand I found that place of
(32:10):
satisfaction and I recovered andI just want to put it out there
.
It's like, hey, this worked forme.
I think it'll work for you too.
It's worked for a lot of peopleand ultimately, this is
leadership, right again, goingback to the beginning of the
conversation, your wife just allyour wife wants is to be happy.
That's all she wants, man.
She wants to be happy.
(32:31):
And if you're miserable andunhappy, why is she going to
fall?
Where are you leading her tolike if you're unhappy, where
can you lead her?
But to a place of unhappiness.
There's nothing, you know, youcan't lead her anywhere good,
whereas if you have happinesswhich, honestly, michelle, is a
very elusive thing not very manypeople find it.
When you actually find thathappiness and you truly have it,
you're very, you become verymagnetic and it's like everybody
(32:53):
is gonna want to know where itis, want to know where that's
what happiness is a formula.
It's not something a few luckypeople are given.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It's a formula that, if we follow it, happiness is
available to each and every oneof us no, that's so true and I'm
glad that it's a number onebest sellerller and I'm, you
know, I'm I hope it gets intothe hands of as many people as
possible, because I think thatis true.
(33:30):
And my final question to youbefore I ask, like, where can
people connect with you?
How can they follow you?
And and I imagine that, sinceyou said about the youtube that
women are going to flock to theyoutube station to like, oh,
this guy knows what he's talkingabout, but I want to ask you,
(33:52):
like I guess it's like can?
The bible says when a man findsa wife, he finds a good thing.
So is there a secret happinessequation that a man can use if
he's single and he's seeking awife?
(34:15):
Is there some magnet there thathe can attract the kind of
woman he's looking for, if thatmakes sense?
That was kind of a convolutedquestion.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, look, regardless if he's going to
attract the kind of woman he'slooking for, the problem is he
doesn't have clarity about whathe's looking for.
You know, he might just go.
I want a woman that does thisand this and this.
And it's like, yeah, okay, well, that's half of one percent of
the relationship and you getthat.
But it's like, what about therest?
It's like clarity is a forcemodel.
Clarity is a force multiplier.
(34:49):
Focus is a force multiplier.
It's like it's getting really,really focused about what you
want and and, to be honest withyou, it's about the real
question is like firstly, getclear about what you want.
And the second question, whichis even more important, is like
what kind of man would I have tobe to attract that kind of
woman?
Like for me, for me personally,to attract the kind of woman
(35:14):
that I want.
Like you know, when I was, whenI was single and I was looking
for a wife, for me to attractthe kind of woman that I want,
for her to say yes, I've got tobe pretty damn spectacular, I've
got to be pretty down to it,because the woman I want is not
taking sloppy seconds, she's nottaking second best, like the
woman that I want has got highstandards.
The wife that I want rejectseverything other than the best
(35:39):
and she doesn't accept anythingother than the highest standard.
So if I want, I can't have thatwoman if I'm not that man.
So the real question is whowould I have to become to
attract that woman?
Who would I have to become forthat woman to be attracted to me
?
I've got to be a man ofintegrity.
I've got to be a man of honesty.
I've got to be a man who doeswhat he says he's going to do.
I've got to to be ambitious.
I've got to be motivated.
I've got to seek to understandbefore seeking to be understood.
(36:02):
I've got to give before I get.
I've got to be willing tosacrifice my need for her need.
These are the characteristicsand qualities of what that woman
would be looking for.
So if I, if I she's, thatwoman's out there looking, you
know I'm in a park right now,that you know, if you're a
single man, that woman isprobably in this park walking
around looking for you.
And if you guys are notconnecting this because you're
(36:24):
not the man you need to be toattract that woman right now.
So get clear about what youwant, then get clear about the
man that you would have to be toattract her and then focus on
becoming that man, not focusedon getting her yes, and I
wholeheartedly agree with that.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And the same, the flip the script.
The same applies to women too.
You have to be the best versionof yourself, because I think
there's a lot of women out therethat they want the upper
echelon man.
But what do you?
You don't, you don't cook, youdon't, you can't carry on an
(37:01):
intelligent conversation.
You I mean, there's so manythings, and yet they want.
This man up here, or the manyou know wants a woman, a high
caliber woman, but you're notgoing to attract that unless you
are that like, like, attractslike man.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
If you're not attracting a high value woman
right now, bottom line brothers,you're not a high value man and
again, the truth will set youfree.
That's a beautiful thing,because once you can say I'm not
a high value man, okay, well,is that fixable?
Of course it is.
Of course it is like it's hard.
It's not a mystery what a highvalue man is like a man who's
(37:41):
ambitious, got integrity, gothonesty, puts other people.
It's like we, it's known like.
These are characteristics thatcan be developed and whatever
you are is what you'reattracting.
It's like saying like I don'treally speak to the woman side
of things.
I don't want to say like you'rea low value woman, that's not,
that's not where I come from,but like, if you're, if you're
(38:01):
not attracting a high value man,you're a low value woman.
It's like, it's as simple asthat and if you do happen to
attract a high value man, youwon't keep it.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, and that's a hard people to embrace.
That's really hard because youhave to put in the work to
become that.
It's not like okay, well, I'mnot, that you can become that.
It doesn't mean you just settlefor who you are right now and
you're just like, you know, likethat.
You have to work at that.
(38:35):
Just like in a marriage, youhave to work to keep the flames
going, to keep the emotionalintimacy.
It doesn't happen magicallywell, look, let me.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Let me finish with this.
I know you need to go.
I think that the major issuewith marriage is people don't
understand what it is.
A marriage is somewhere you goto give.
It's not somewhere you go toget.
And if you go into a marriageto get, you're going to be
disillusioned and you're goingto be unhappy unless you
understand a marriage is a placethat you give and to contribute
(39:10):
and you may never get anythingback.
Like the marriage contract, themarriage covenant is a one-way
promise that you make to yourwife or your wife makes to you
that she makes.
That offers nothing in return.
I promise to have and to hold,to, love and to cherish, for
better or for worse, till death.
Do us part, regardless of howshe behaves back towards me,
(39:32):
regardless, and this is thenumber one thing, right?
We say we'll become a man ofintegrity.
Well, a man of integrityupholds.
Man of integrity upholds hispromise, upholds his word.
You promised to love your wifeforever, regardless of what you
get back, and now you're going.
Well, I'm not getting much back, so how long do I put up with
this?
Forever, brother, forever.
Yeah, honor your word.
(39:55):
You said that you would loveher like christ, loved the
church forever, regardless ofwhat she does or how she met the
.
The promise that you made toyour wife is the same promise
that christ made towards you.
He promised to love you,regardless of how you behave,
back indefinitely, irrevocably,with security.
And it's like yeah this.
(40:17):
this is the man of ephesians,right, the husbands of ephesians
.
It's like you promised to loveyour wife unconditionally,
irrevocably, irrespective of herbehavior.
Honor that you know, men going.
Well, how long do I put up withnot getting my needs met?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Forever, yes, Forever , brother, if you're a high
value man, Forever.
Not everybody deals with that.
Well, I mean it's just like,okay, she's not meeting my needs
anymore, so okay, well, let'sgo our separate ways.
(40:51):
I mean, it happens every dayand it's so sad to me because
the commitment just isn't there.
The level of commitment, whatyou just described, is what it's
supposed to be like.
It's what christ designed for amarriage to be forever giving,
not getting forever giving andand hopefully you know people go
(41:16):
well.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
You know my wife made the same front.
Yeah, well, that she's going tobe held accountable for that.
You are not the one to hold heraccountable.
Her promise was you know,there's no accountability.
Man Like you can't hold yourwife accountable for her promise
.
She's responsible for that.
She's responsible for herbehavior.
You're responsible for yourbehavior and her behavior
(41:38):
doesn't excuse your behavior.
Brother, it's like independent,mutually exclusive events.
If you go, well, she's behavingbadly, so I can behave badly.
You are a low value male, myfriend.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
And you wonder why your marriage is falling apart.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
You are a low value male.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, those are come to come to Jesusesus meeting
words, as they say.
You know, it's your hard, ahard truth that you have to come
to grips with and then dosomething about it jesus told
the truth and they took him outback and nailed him to a tree.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
If you want to piss people off, man, speak the truth
, like the truth offends people,but it's the truth that'll set
you free.
It's like you know if you're alow value male and you think
you're a high value male like we, we can't go to work on the
problem.
It's like we've got to have anaccurate diagnosis to have an
accurate treatment plan yeah,yeah and and this, this is, this
(42:36):
is the truth.
You know, it's like it's why somany men fail, man, is because
they're just not willing to lookat themselves.
They're not willing to look atthemselves and go.
I'm the problem, not to saythat your wife's, you know, not
without her problems.
Of course she is, but herproblems are not your problems,
man.
She's going to give account forthose, not you.
You're going to give accountfor your words, your problems,
your deeds your actions,problems, your deeds, your
(43:02):
action.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
That's your responsibility.
Oh, that's so deep.
I bet the men that you coachare greatly helped and lives are
changed, and I'm really gladthat we got to talk today and I
want to, you know, ask youfinally how can people connect
with you?
How can they find you on socialmedia, follow you on youtube?
Give us everything.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
So you, youtube's really my favorite place because
, like it gets you to experiencelike you know, like you get to
experience me firsthand, like Ipublish coaching calls that I do
with with clients and stufflike that, with their permission
, so you can see like we gothrough real coaching situations
and you get more of this.
So youtube if you just googlecody butler, better marriage on
youtube or you just go to searchI think it's code, I don't know
(43:49):
the name of the channel, Iprobably should, but if you just
go to the search bar and putcody butler better marriage,
you'll, you'll find me there.
That's that's the main way.
You'll find links in thedescriptions and then better
marriagecom is uh, is anotherplace.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Kind of you can get some free training and some
stuff there as well oh, perfect,if you want to learn more about
what we do here yes, and I'llput all those in the the show
notes, because this will be onyoutube as well, and LinkedIn
and Twitter or X and.
Facebook.
(44:23):
So it will be, you know, allover the place, and I'll include
all those links in there whichI'm sure you will send me
afterward.
That would be really helpful, Isure will.
So anyway, thank you, Cody.
Any parting words of wisdom forthe men out there.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Yeah, there's hope.
There's hope, you know, as longas there's life in the body.
Look, I'm going to go just onetiny little preach, if that's
all right.
Yes, as a parting gift.
There's no circumstance wheregod, it's god's will that your
marriage ends, not not onepossible circumstance.
And I know people are going tosay well, what about in the
event of sex?
Yet no, there's permissible.
(45:08):
There's permissible divorce,like god will permit divorce in
certain circumstances.
But he clearly said it was mypreference that you reconcile.
Only through the hardening ofyour heart will I commit divorce
.
In this situation, I can tellyou categorically it's god's
will that your marriage isrestored.
100.
There's no circumstance wherethat is not the case.
If your marriage is not beingrestored, it's because you're
getting in the way.
The only thing that god's wordcannot return void.
(45:32):
And if it is returning void,it's because you brother and
it's like.
There's not a circumstancewhere your marriage can't be
healed if you return to God'sword.
I can tell you that assuredly.
I've seen it with my own eyes.
You know we're at the end here,so we'll use some flowery
language.
I see miracles all the time,man, all the time.
I see miracles in marriage allthe time and there is hope it is
(45:52):
possible, and that's where itstarts.
It doesn't matter how bad it is, I don't care what's happened.
There's hope it's possible.
Um check out some of our videos, man.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
It's like that's a good place to start if you're in
that situation, okay, that thatis awesome.
Thank you so much, cody, forbeing a guest and for sharing
your wisdom and for sharing sometidbits of, of just nuggets of
gold for the men and for peoplein general to to just grab a
hold of and redeem and restore.
(46:24):
That's what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
That's exactly what it's about, absolutely so.
Thanks for having me and givingme this opportunity to share.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
I appreciate that and everybody until next time.
Thank you for watching anotherepisode of winning proof
unscripted.
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