July 23, 2025 • 30 mins
About Nancy Ho
Nancy Ho is an internationally recognized executive coach, speaker, and author of The Professional Paradox.
With decades of experience empowering leaders, entrepreneurs, and high-performing professionals, Nancy helps individuals align their external success with inner fulfillment. Her coaching philosophy draws from personal experience and deep introspection, guiding clients to redefine success on their terms.
About this Episode
In this heartfelt and eye-opening episode of The Matrix Green Pill Podcast, host Hilmarie Hutchison sits down with Nancy Ho to explore The Professional Paradox—the hidden struggles of outwardly successful professionals who feel unfulfilled inside.
Nancy shares how her own early life and entrepreneurial upbringing set her on a path to achievement, only to realize that the societal benchmarks of success—status, money, titles—left her feeling empty. She explains the core idea of the paradox: that true fulfillment comes not from external milestones, but from a sustained internal sense of peace and purpose.
The conversation dives into topics such as burnout, imposter syndrome, the dangers of tying self-worth to job titles, and the power of mindset. Nancy also outlines her five key steps to finding fulfillment: introspection, individual improvement, integrating life and work, interpersonal investment, and self-care.
This episode is a powerful guide for anyone feeling trapped in the cycle of “chasing success,” offering both reflection and practical steps to align outer achievement with inner well-being. A must-listen for executives, entrepreneurs, and anyone seeking a more meaningful way to define success.
Quotes
1:11 – Coaching wasn’t a sudden shift—it was a natural progression rooted in how I was raised.
1:53 - You can always stand for what you want, be who you are, and you are to be very comfortable with your own skin and go for what you want
2:43 - You must know how to balance between play and work
5:09 - Success meant so much from the outside, I call it chasing, keep chasing, milestone after milestone
8:36 - Feelings come from our thoughts
12:10 - It is important that we do set goals and achieve whatever goals that we want
14:17 – Burnout isn’t about being too busy—it’s doing too much of what you don’t enjoy.
20:25 - You don’t have to be the best, but you should seek excellence. Always be better, better, better.
24:24 - Always invest in yourself, a combination of self-care, your finances, relationships, and being the best version of yourself.
Useful Links
Website:https://www.nancyho.net/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/lifecoachnancyho/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LifeCoachNancyHo/
Linkedin:https://www.linkedin.com/in/theworkofnancyho/
The Matrix Green Pill Podcast: https://thematrixgreenpill.com/
Please review us: https://g.page/r/CS8IW35GvlraEAI/review
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hilmarie Hutchison (00:04):
Hello and welcome back to the Matrix
Greenfield podcast.
I'm your host, hilmarieHutchison, and today's episode
is especially relevant foranyone who's ever found what
others might consider successbut still felt an emptiness
underneath it all.
Our guest today, nancy Ho, isan internationally recognized
(00:29):
thought leader, executive coachand author of the Professional
Paradox.
Nancy is on a mission to helphigh-performing professionals
align outward success with innerfulfillment.
Through her coaching, speakingand writing, nancy empowers
executives, entrepreneurs andmid-level leaders to redefine
(00:53):
what success really means.
Nancy, welcome and thank you somuch for joining me today.
Nancy ho (01:00):
My pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me.
Hilmarie Hutchison (01:03):
So, Nancy, let's begin with your story.
Could you share with ouraudience a little bit about
yourself and your background?
Nancy ho (01:11):
Sure, you know it is often a question asked, like you
know, what was the pivotalmoment that got me into this
coaching space, therapy space,you know, or rather I call it
the helping people profession,and my answer has always been
it's a very natural progressionfor me.
It wasn't, like you know,something happened and I went
(01:32):
for some coaching or went forsome therapy and therefore I'm
convicted and I go into that.
So that's where I want to startfrom, why I said it's pretty
natural.
I suppose I came from abackground all right.
Also my mom, that's a naturalleader.
So I was already like beingparent in the sense that you can
(01:52):
always stand for what you want,be who you are and you are to
be very comfortable with yourown skin and go for what you
want.
So in that sense, so from veryyoung, from a pretty much I
would say, my mom is anentrepreneur, from an
entrepreneurial background I wasalready kind of like driven to
pursue my heart's desire.
(02:13):
So that background led me whereI am today in a sense, of
course, not step by step, not,like you know, I could leap that
.
I just was intrigued even whenI was in school, to be able to
help them, impact on people'slife.
That means, like, even when Iwas a teenager.
Right, being a teenager, welike to enjoy ourselves, you
(02:34):
know, not study all the time,but somehow the knack to say
like, hey, yes, what study isvery important?
Right, we don't want to fail inschool, but then, okay, we must
know how to balance betweenplay and work.
Hilmarie Hutchison (02:46):
Excellent.
I love that.
So your mom was a great rolemodel for you, being an
entrepreneur herself, so thatalready gave you what it could
look like to be successful andwhat you could achieve yourself.
I also like what you said.
Even as a teenager, you hadthat knack to inspire others, to
influence others, helping themto sort of have a good balance
in their lives.
(03:06):
Did I understand that correctly?
Nancy ho (03:07):
Yeah, in that sense at that time, yes, I said yeah, we
want to go play, right Ofcourse.
Who wants to study all the time?
I guess most teenagers wouldnot.
But again, you know, we know ifwe fail or we do badly in
school we're going to have bigproblem.
So in that sense we need thatbalance, not necessarily that we
really know what balance isabout, but at least we do not
sort of like overlooked theimportant areas in our life,
(03:30):
just like work and play.
Hilmarie Hutchison (03:31):
I love that, even as a teenager, you had
that sense, that ability to see,that need for, yes, everyone
wants to play when they'reteenagers, but we also have to
have the serious, but also wedon't want all of it to be
serious.
We need to find that balance,so I like that.
Let's talk about the concept ofthe professional paradox.
(03:56):
What exactly is it and why doyou think it resonates so deeply
today?
Nancy ho (04:02):
Right so far.
I set a little goal right.
I said, hey, you know, itsounds like a balance.
We so far.
I set a little goal right.
I said, hey, you know, soundslike a balance.
We want to play, but we need towork, work as, like you know,
get our grades, put themtogether that we, at least we,
can progress.
Now, all being said, when you'reyounger, as we grow older and
we want to pursue a heart'sdesire, we may just then get
(04:23):
caught up with the outside worldsuccess, the external success,
right, what we call we pursueour dreams.
So unfortunately, fortunately,I don't know that we sort of
like look at the benchmark fromthe outside, that what success
looks like, whether it could bein terms of wealth, in terms of
(04:44):
power, in terms of status, interms of title, whatever that
means.
We tend to lean towards thatmuch more than the internal
fulfillment.
So I was caught up with that.
I have to admit that, that Irealized it have to admit that,
(05:08):
that I realized it, thankfullypretty young, in my late 20s,
that I realized that successmeant so much from the outside.
I call it chasing.
You know, keep chasing,milestone after milestone and at
the end, after you have orrather I had and achieved that.
What does it really mean?
Do I really feel that?
Good, probably that moment.
(05:28):
But is that really thatpurposeful, meaningful,
fulfilling?
In fact, I felt empty, I feltthe void, and hence I discovered
what I call the paradox ofsuccess, the flip side of
success.
Not the conventional, what wecan see, but deep down, the flip
side of success.
Call it something unconsciousthat happened, that we have it
(05:52):
all on the outside but insidedoes not necessarily feel all
that fulfilled.
That's where the paradox ofsuccess comes to play.
Hilmarie Hutchison (06:01):
I love that you mentioned that this was your
own lived experience, havingbeen caught up with all the
benchmarks of what others thinksuccess is, looking at all the
external factors and leaningtowards measuring success only
from an external viewpoint,chasing milestones but then, at
(06:22):
the end of it, for yourselffeeling that emptiness.
So why do you think theprofessional paradox resonates
so deeply today?
Nancy ho (06:32):
And far to it, my clients.
I served the C-suites, seniorexecutives, meet managers and
even business owners that it hadshowed that they have it
so-called like on the outside.
They have it all, have it allmeaning, like you know, they
have the title, they have thestatus, they have that wealth,
(06:53):
they have that network, theyhave the family, they have
so-called everything.
But inside, deep down inside,especially when they go to sleep
, it's like I don't know what'swrong.
They can't put their fingerdown to like this is wrong or
that is wrong, but just do notfeel good.
And I often say this all of us,every single individual, from
(07:16):
the youngest to the oldest inthis world, we all want the same
thing, although pretty much itmay express it in a different
way Down, we want the same thingand what's the same thing?
Although pretty much it mayexpress it in a different way
Down, we want the same thing andwhat's the same thing To feel
good.
So when one does not feel good,it's really not a good place to
be, it's really a bad space.
And we have seen a lot incelebrities, whether it could be
(07:41):
the Hollywood celebrities orany power to work celebrities.
We have known of the storiesthat they have it all, but at
the end of the day they overdose, they drink heavily, some even,
you know, take on a path thatone should not think about.
But why do they do that?
Again, the emptiness, the void,you know the part inside them
(08:02):
is screaming so loud, but yetthemselves or others cannot
understand why it should be thecase, because you have it all.
You know what I mean.
Hilmarie Hutchison (08:12):
Absolutely.
So you're saying that whateveryone is looking for is to
feel good.
Can you maybe define what thisfeel good?
Is it a feeling, is it asatisfaction?
Nancy ho (08:24):
Is it an emotional state or I'll call it an energy,
you know, because why would Inot even call it a feeling?
Because where does feelingscome from?
Feelings really come from ourthoughts.
Oh, I feel good when I buy thisbag, for example.
I feel good.
When I get a promotion, I feelgood.
When I've got another kid, Ifeel good.
Those are thoughts related.
(08:46):
I'm not saying those things willnot make a person feel good,
but those feelings are verythought, very cognitive related.
So when I talk about feel good,I'm talking about this energy
that you're just good.
You can't express it, call it asense of peace, call it a sense
of okayness.
In my language I always say youknow, it's just, it's okay.
(09:06):
Chill, whatever happened.
I feel chill, I feel okay, Ifeel at peace, I feel
comfortable within my own skin.
That's what I meant by feelgood.
I mean whether somebody iswanting that promotion, whether
somebody wanting that, you know,another million dollars, or
wanting another car, anotherhouse, I think the energy at the
end of the day is to feel good.
(09:28):
I feel good having the house, Ifeel good having the car, I
feel good having the promotion.
But after they got a car, afterthey got a house, after they
got the promotion or that babyor that whatever right they
thought that makes them feelgood.
Does this feel good reallysustain?
Hilmarie Hutchison (09:44):
That's an important point that when the
feelings come from our thoughtsso I'm going to feel good
because I spent the money doingthis or bought that that's sort
of a fleeting feeling thatpasses quite quickly and by
tomorrow or the next day or thenext week you forgot that
feeling.
Now you have to find somethingelse to get some feeling,
(10:05):
whereas what you are talkingabout is more a positive energy
and emotional state that lasts.
That's really within a person,rather than external things that
give us sort of temporaryfeeling of happiness or
something Exactly you mentionedearlier about so-called
(10:25):
professionals or people who areentrepreneurs or even maybe also
very high achievingprofessionals.
These are the kinds of peoplethat you work with closely.
What are some of the mostcommon struggles that they face
behind the scenes?
Nancy ho (10:41):
I mean the common struggles, like I said earlier
on.
Already, right, they thoughtthat pursuing that goal whatever
the goal means, or goals allright would make them feel good.
But yes, for that moment, butafter they have achieved it.
And then they said now what?
Okay, sure they can go foranother goal, another goal,
another goal.
It's a very unsettling kind ofenergy, or the feeling deep down
(11:03):
, but it's not something thatsomeone could describe.
Oh, because I've got a badrelationship with my wife or my
husband, or because I'm stressedover this or that.
You know, they just can't puttheir finger there.
But they just said somethingfeels wrong and that really
boils back to the fact I alwayscall it what is your purpose?
Hilmarie Hutchison (11:26):
Very interesting.
So realizing that pursuinggoals and milestones does not
provide lasting sense of peaceand this is something that
affects clearly those who arehigh achieving professionals,
but any person really that makesgoals or milestones achieving
(11:47):
like a checklist with thingsthat's where happiness or
feeling good is going to comefrom.
They reach those points andthen suddenly realize, wait, it
was all temporary.
This is not the lasting peaceor the sense of peace that I
hoped I would achieve.
That's what I'm understandingfrom what you've said so far.
Nancy ho (12:07):
Correct.
But then, like I said, ofcourse, of course it is
important that we do set goalsand achieve whatever goals that
we want.
You know, just like when I saidin school, we need to have that
good grades right, we need theeducation.
At the same time, you want tohave fun, you know that kind of
thing.
So it's not like one or theother.
I love that.
Hilmarie Hutchison (12:24):
So there needs to be a balance of the
things that we are pursuing.
We need to have some downtimedoing things that's feeding our
soul, while also, on theprofessional side, having some
goals.
But don't put everything in onebucket because then you're
going to be disappointed at theend.
Nancy ho (12:44):
Yeah, in fact, there are teenagers that come to me.
You know, some of these highperformers, or rather high
achievers, will send their kidsto me, you know, and of course,
like children being children, ofcourse they always shout about
I want freedom.
Right, it doesn't matter whatage.
We all want freedom to do thethings that we want.
And I said to them yes, we canhave freedom.
Then what's your issue?
Oh, that's the reason why Ispend a lot of time, you know,
(13:07):
doing what makes me happy.
So I said now the point is timefor everything Time to sleep,
time to rest, time to eat, timeto play, time to work, time for
me, time, time for couple time,time for family time.
So it's time for everything.
Of course, the balance is notequal number of hours, but not
overlooking any areas that'simportant for us as a being in a
(13:34):
holistic sense.
Hilmarie Hutchison (13:35):
Yeah, that makes absolute sense and I love
that you have the opportunity towork with young people who
still have their whole futureahead of them.
If they can learn at that youngage, in their teens, the
importance of balance, then thatsort of sets them up for the
rest of their lives to besuccessful on both fronts in
their lives.
The importance of balance, thenthat sort of sets them up for
the rest of their lives to besuccessful on both fronts in
(13:56):
their lives.
Nancy ho (13:57):
Absolutely.
Hilmarie Hutchison (13:57):
Yes, let's shift the conversation a little
bit and talk about burnout.
I know this is something thatis a huge issue, with 77% of
professionals reportingexperiencing burnout.
Why do you think burnout is soprevalent among people,
especially those who aresuccessful?
Nancy ho (14:17):
So burnout really is not about overwork To me.
It's not about overwork.
It's not about having that wow,I got so much to do, that loads
and all that.
It's really about not quitehappy doing the things we want
to do.
Not quite happy doing thethings we want to do means Not
quite happy.
Doing the things we want to domeans that I don't really want
to do that, but I have to do itright.
So you just keep doing it andit's like oh, that's too much,
(14:38):
it's just too much To me.
Again, it's an energy of theburnout.
It's not the workload, but it'slike I'm swimming against the
current.
Why am I swimming against thecurrent?
It's I'm not too pleased, I'mfed up, I'm dissatisfied with
what I'm doing, but I have to doso.
If you look at people that areso-called let's use the word
passionate, or simply they enjoywhat they do, there's no
(15:00):
burnout.
Say, let's look at marathon.
Right, somebody runs a marathon.
They may be physically tired atthe end of the marathon, but
they are never burned out.
It's like oh, my God, it's toomuch.
In fact, they'll go from onemarathon to another one and
another one.
Hilmarie Hutchison (15:12):
That makes absolute sense.
Yes, so people get burned out,not from being too busy, not
from having too much on theirplate.
They get burned out becausethey are not getting
satisfaction from the thingsthat they are doing.
So if you love what you'redoing, if you feel a purpose
behind the things you are doing,then it doesn't matter how busy
(15:32):
you are, because that fills youup, whereas if it's just feels
like mindless and there's nopurpose and you actually dread
doing it, that then leads tosomebody feeling burnt out.
I think that's a very importantdistinction and helps us to
understand why some people getburnt out or feel burnt out, and
others, who have maybe as much,if not more, on their plates,
(15:56):
are happy to continue because itgoes along with what brings
them inner peace and fulfillment.
I think that's really, reallyinteresting.
Nancy ho (16:06):
Actually I picked up the word that you said just now
was good they dragged D-R-E-A-D.
They dragged doing it.
Hilmarie Hutchison (16:12):
Yes, exactly Now, many sort of related, but
on sort of a different tangent.
Many professionals struggle toseparate their self-worth from
their job titles.
How do you help them to beginto untangle the two?
Nancy ho (16:30):
Self-worth, self-esteem all right, whichever
way you look at it, has gotnothing to do with what we do.
When you have the highself-worth, the high self-esteem
, it doesn't matter whether youknow we are walking down the
street or we are, you know,pursuing a goal, or we are at
work doing some tasking or weare leading a team, whatever
(16:53):
there is that means you know.
When you have the highself-worth, it's all about,
again, feeling comfortablewithin your own skin, feeling
good about yourself, regardlesswhere we are in the food chain,
so to speak, and all that.
I have that worth.
I remember when I was studyingin Switzerland and one at that
time, okay, I believe it's stillnow.
When I was studying inSwitzerland, and one at that
time okay, I believe it's stillnow that the service staff right
(17:14):
, whether it's in a hotel and arestaurant.
It's very interesting that a lotof them display high self-worth
Meaning what they could beserving at tables, but they
really walked in and talked toyou and serve you with that
pride that they're doing a goodjob.
They do not behave like, oh,I'm serving tables, they take
(17:34):
pride with what they do.
So I can see, even at a timewhere I was only 19 years old,
20 years old.
I look at them and I said, wow,that's self-pride, and that
self-pride comes from self-worth.
Hilmarie Hutchison (17:46):
Really interesting.
So self-esteem, or thatself-worth has nothing to do
with the actual job we're doing,but it actually is something,
again sort of linked to what yousaid earlier having purpose,
having pride.
So the person that could beserving the table or doing what
others might be considering morea low-level job, might be
(18:08):
getting more out of theirfunction or their job because
they see purpose in what theyare doing, whereas somebody who
might be earning a lot of moneymight not link or might not see
purpose or value, and so theycould be unfulfilled, even
though they might have a bigbank account, correct, correct.
Nancy ho (18:29):
A big title, a big account, but they still I mean
honestly, they still don't feelgood.
And I have that many peoplethat are like that.
They have this big title.
They come in front of me and ofcourse, the first question is
like you know, how may I assistyou?
What brought you here?
How can I serve you?
Well, depending on context andI'm very surprised some of the
(18:49):
C-suite, some of the C-suite,some of the senior executives,
actually says to me that I havea confidence issue.
You got a confidence issue.
Now, they don't mean they haveno confidence or low in
confidence in what they do.
What they really mean is likethis thing inside I call this
dingy inside that they even havethis fear of being exposed.
That, in case people think theyare not good enough for their
(19:14):
title.
Of course they are right.
They have the qualification,they have the experience, they
have the exposure and hence theword we heard of right Imposter
syndrome.
Hilmarie Hutchison (19:23):
Yes, that's something that a lot of people
who have reached a certain levelfeel like they don't actually
belong there.
Well, as you said earlier,they're going to get found out.
So it leaves that sort of veryuneasy, uncomfortable, uncertain
feeling in them, which thenalso means that their
self-esteem, their self-worth,also gets impacted by this.
(19:45):
You used a word earlier about amindset of people who have that
inner happiness, that inner joy.
I know that mindset shifts area core, that inner happiness,
that inner joy.
I know that mindset shifts area core part of the work that you
do.
What is one mindset shift youbelieve every executive needs to
make today?
Nancy ho (20:04):
The right mindset really has to be very internal,
not about external, that likethe role or the title, but
rather something that it boilsdown to attitude.
I will put it this way it boilsdown to attitude, how we see
life, how we perceive life, howwe live life.
So, for example, one of themindsets I always said don't be
(20:24):
the best.
It's crazy I say that right.
The listeners now I'm sure likewhat?
Don't be the best?
Of course I'm not saying be bad.
I said don't be the bestbecause best has a ceiling.
Seek excellence, excellence.
Always be better, better,better.
You are seeking that, you know.
Step up.
I always call it step up, levelup, not because of chasing a
(20:47):
title, but because of themindset to always want to excel
within oneself, to become better.
The becoming, the becoming ofme.
So it's very internal and it'san absolutely positive energy.
The becoming how would I wantto show up for myself?
Not about how I want to show upfor the world to see.
(21:10):
Call it whether a standard, anidea, call it what it looks like
for myself, so that at the endof the day I am satisfied with
who I am.
That's the mindset I'm talkingabout.
Hilmarie Hutchison (21:25):
Yes, so it's not about wanting to be the
best, but constantly, as yousaid, seeking excellence or to
be better or to be growing.
So if you have that mindsetthat I am constantly trying to
improve myself, rather than I'mtrying to reach a particular
plateau but then beingdisappointed when we get there,
(21:48):
rather have this mindset ofconstantly improving and finding
ways to grow and to be better,what advice would you give for
entrepreneurs or C-levelexecutives who feel successful
but unfulfilled?
Nancy ho (22:03):
Cole written this book with Jack Canfield, the guy
that had been around for a longtime with the chicken soup for
the soul.
This book is Success Redefined,and there were other authors as
well that we called writtenthis book called Success
Redefined, and my chapter isabout the paradox of success,
the hidden struggles ofhigh-performing professionals.
So, to answer your question, Iactually, especially in that
(22:27):
chapter, wrote about you knowfive steps.
You know five steps that we canfocus on fulfillment.
One is introspection.
We have to look inwards, lookinside, all right, to know the
fundamental, our values, ourNorth Star, particularly, like I
(22:47):
said, the direction, not thedirection of a goal, but the
direction of deep down inside.
What's my values, my corevalues, what is important, what
matters.
So when you come from thatspace, then it's really internal
.
Then next we need to look intoindividual improvement, and the
individual improvement includesnot being ignorant to what's
(23:09):
happening in this world, Forexample, the AI.
Right, I know everybody talksabout AI, so I'm not just
talking about oh, you got toknow what's AI, but really the
application of it in the realworld.
How does that impact on my life, Not just not my job, but you
know my life, or whatever elseout there that is happening,
(23:30):
that I need to know and need toimprove to be in alignment to
what's out there.
And, of course, the third stepis integrating your personal and
professional life.
As I said earlier on about, youknow, being a kid, I already
knew, right, you need to workand you need to play right that
kind of integrating them.
Earlier I said right Time foreverything, right, my me time,
my family time, the couple time,especially, my own personal
(23:53):
time with myself.
And the fourth step isinterpersonal investment,
meaning this is more aboutrelationship, right?
What kind of relationship?
The type of relationship thatyou want.
Friendship is that the fairweather friendship that you want
.
You just have lots of friendsare looking good, you know, or
you really want friends.
That meant something.
(24:13):
Right To each his own.
I'm not going to say what isimportant, but to really
investing in the interpersonalway with people.
And, of course, the fifth one,last but not least, always
investing in yourself.
When I say the investment, I'mtalking about a combination of
self-care that's also investingyourself.
All right, the self-care, yourfinance, relationship I've
(24:35):
mentioned earlier on, you know,being the best version of
yourself, All that areconsidered as investing yourself
.
Yeah, these are the five stepsthat I talk about, so that one
can feel fulfilled.
Hilmarie Hutchison (24:47):
Thank you for sharing that with us.
So if somebody wants to go readmore deeply about this, then
they need to go and read thatbook, success Redefined, and
find your chapter on the paradoxof success.
Yes, the paradox of success,yeah, I happen to be.
On chapter two.
You mentioned here severaltimes about that balance.
How do you personally maintainbalance while supporting others?
Nancy ho (25:10):
to do the same.
I always say I'm first apractitioner, then a coach.
Everything that I coach aboutis everything that I do for
myself first.
So, like the five steps I talkabout early on, I practice them.
Number one my self-care.
I invest.
Number one my self-care.
I invest time, effort, money.
When I say money I don't meangoing for like procedures and
(25:33):
stuff like that.
When I say money I mean, likesometimes, certain kind of
external thing like a goodmassage, a good kind of holistic
treatment going to the gymalthough I got my own home gym
and all that sort of thing.
So it's time, effort and moneyfor self-care.
That's the first thing one mustnot neglect.
Hilmarie Hutchison (25:58):
Excellent.
I love that.
So you practice what you preach, so you have that balance, and
then you're willing to, and youdo.
You prioritize looking afteryourself, your own self-care,
and be that through your time,effort and money.
And I think sometimes, when weare very busy and we've got lots
of responsibilities, it's very,very easy to neglect our
self-care.
We put everything and everyoneelse first, and then there's no
(26:18):
time or resources left for us totake care of ourselves.
And I think if we can have onetakeaway from our discussion
with you today, it is thatself-care is a priority and
should be a priority, becausethat is what helps us to
maintain that balance thatyou've been speaking about
throughout our conversationtoday.
(26:38):
That's right.
Now we have come to the segmentof our show where I will ask
you some rapid fire questions,our version of a game show.
Are you ready?
Sure, one word to describe yourcoaching style Upfront and
personal.
A morning ritual that you neverskip.
Nancy ho (26:56):
My exercise.
That's the first thing I do.
I wake up, I do what isnecessary and then, like I said,
I've got my own home gym andthen I get changed to go to my
home gym.
A book that changed yourmindset oh, there's so many
really, but if we talk about theone that really impacted me a
lot not very commercial in asense, it's from the Three
Principles.
His name is Sidney Banks.
(27:17):
It's no longer with us, but allthe books from him have taken
shape for me.
Hilmarie Hutchison (27:22):
Yeah, lovely .
In one word, what doesfulfillment mean to you?
Nancy ho (27:27):
It means I go to sleep and I'm at peace.
Hilmarie Hutchison (27:31):
What is one thing you do every day, no
matter how busy you get?
Rest, oh excellent, very good.
Well, thank you for playingalong.
Now I would like to ask you asignature Green Pool question.
If you took the Green Pool togo back in time and change one
thing about your journey, whatwould it be?
Nancy ho (27:51):
Relationships.
How do I mean?
You've heard early on that I'vegot a mom that's kind of an
entrepreneur and she's tough andthe only thing I knew from her
not blaming her, I'm thankfulfor that is tough love.
So therefore that's the onlything I know how to apply.
It can become so tough.
I meant well, Just like mymother.
The intention is positive, it'sout of love, Anything that I
(28:13):
say, anything that I do.
But then again, different folks, different stroke.
Not everybody can subscribe totough love.
So if I can change anythingelse, I would like to change
being more fluid, being moreadaptable to the other person,
rather than just being sofixated about my belief, even if
it's all positive.
Hilmarie Hutchison (28:34):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you for sharing.
That's a very personal learningfrom your own life that you've
shared with us, and I reallyappreciate that you did that,
because I think that kind ofself-reflection is so good, and
good for us to also realizesometimes the approach we know,
the approach maybe, as you said,that our parents gave us might
not always serve us in the bestway, and so being willing to say
(28:57):
you know what I can do thisdifferently different people, as
you said, different strokes fordifferent folks so that we need
to possibly approach differentpeople in a different way, and
tough love is not always theanswer, depending on the person
and on the situation.
So thank you so much forsharing that very personal
experience with us and thank youalso for being here today and
(29:19):
for this excellent conversation.
I've really enjoyed it.
Nancy ho (29:22):
Thank you, my pleasure Once again appreciate Before we
go?
Hilmarie Hutchison (29:26):
where can our listeners connect with you
or learn more about yourcoaching and the professional
paradox?
Nancy ho (29:34):
First, of course, my website is easy to remember
Nancyhonet, n-a-n-c-y-h-o, dotnet, n-e-t.
Or you can just search whetherit's in LinkedIn, whether it is
in Facebook, all the socialplatforms.
Like Coach Nancy Ho, singapore,you definitely can find me and
I look forward to connecting.
(29:55):
I would love to haveconversation with your listeners
, all right and time.
If there's any question,anything, I want to connect with
me, most welcome.
Hilmarie Hutchison (30:03):
Excellent.
Thank you so much for that andto our listeners, thank you for
tuning in to another episode ofthe Matrix Green Pearl Podcast.
If you've ever felt like yourouter success didn't quite match
your inner experience, thisepisode is your invitation to
redefine the rules.
Be sure to subscribe, leave usa five-star review and join us
(30:27):
again next week for moreinspiring conversations.
Until next time, stay balanced,stay mindful and keep growing
with purpose.
If you enjoy our conversations,please like and subscribe.
See you next Wednesday.
Hello and welcome back to the Matrix
Greenfield podcast.
I'm your host, hilmarieHutchison, and today's episode
is especially relevant foranyone who's ever found what
others might consider successbut still felt an emptiness
underneath it all.
Our guest today, nancy Ho, isan internationally recognized
(00:29):
thought leader, executive coachand author of the Professional
Paradox.
Nancy is on a mission to helphigh-performing professionals
align outward success with innerfulfillment.
Through her coaching, speakingand writing, nancy empowers
executives, entrepreneurs andmid-level leaders to redefine
(00:53):
what success really means.
Nancy, welcome and thank you somuch for joining me today.
Nancy ho (01:00):
My pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me.
Hilmarie Hutchison (01:03):
So, Nancy, let's begin with your story.
Could you share with ouraudience a little bit about
yourself and your background?
Nancy ho (01:11):
Sure, you know it is often a question asked, like you
know, what was the pivotalmoment that got me into this
coaching space, therapy space,you know, or rather I call it
the helping people profession,and my answer has always been
it's a very natural progressionfor me.
It wasn't, like you know,something happened and I went
(01:32):
for some coaching or went forsome therapy and therefore I'm
convicted and I go into that.
So that's where I want to startfrom, why I said it's pretty
natural.
I suppose I came from abackground all right.
Also my mom, that's a naturalleader.
So I was already like beingparent in the sense that you can
(01:52):
always stand for what you want,be who you are and you are to
be very comfortable with yourown skin and go for what you
want.
So in that sense, so from veryyoung, from a pretty much I
would say, my mom is anentrepreneur, from an
entrepreneurial background I wasalready kind of like driven to
pursue my heart's desire.
(02:13):
So that background led me whereI am today in a sense, of
course, not step by step, not,like you know, I could leap that
.
I just was intrigued even whenI was in school, to be able to
help them, impact on people'slife.
That means, like, even when Iwas a teenager.
Right, being a teenager, welike to enjoy ourselves, you
(02:34):
know, not study all the time,but somehow the knack to say
like, hey, yes, what study isvery important?
Right, we don't want to fail inschool, but then, okay, we must
know how to balance betweenplay and work.
Hilmarie Hutchison (02:46):
Excellent.
I love that.
So your mom was a great rolemodel for you, being an
entrepreneur herself, so thatalready gave you what it could
look like to be successful andwhat you could achieve yourself.
I also like what you said.
Even as a teenager, you hadthat knack to inspire others, to
influence others, helping themto sort of have a good balance
in their lives.
(03:06):
Did I understand that correctly?
Nancy ho (03:07):
Yeah, in that sense at that time, yes, I said yeah, we
want to go play, right Ofcourse.
Who wants to study all the time?
I guess most teenagers wouldnot.
But again, you know, we know ifwe fail or we do badly in
school we're going to have bigproblem.
So in that sense we need thatbalance, not necessarily that we
really know what balance isabout, but at least we do not
sort of like overlooked theimportant areas in our life,
(03:30):
just like work and play.
Hilmarie Hutchison (03:31):
I love that, even as a teenager, you had
that sense, that ability to see,that need for, yes, everyone
wants to play when they'reteenagers, but we also have to
have the serious, but also wedon't want all of it to be
serious.
We need to find that balance,so I like that.
Let's talk about the concept ofthe professional paradox.
(03:56):
What exactly is it and why doyou think it resonates so deeply
today?
Nancy ho (04:02):
Right so far.
I set a little goal right.
I said, hey, you know, itsounds like a balance.
We so far.
I set a little goal right.
I said, hey, you know, soundslike a balance.
We want to play, but we need towork, work as, like you know,
get our grades, put themtogether that we, at least we,
can progress.
Now, all being said, when you'reyounger, as we grow older and
we want to pursue a heart'sdesire, we may just then get
(04:23):
caught up with the outside worldsuccess, the external success,
right, what we call we pursueour dreams.
So unfortunately, fortunately,I don't know that we sort of
like look at the benchmark fromthe outside, that what success
looks like, whether it could bein terms of wealth, in terms of
(04:44):
power, in terms of status, interms of title, whatever that
means.
We tend to lean towards thatmuch more than the internal
fulfillment.
So I was caught up with that.
I have to admit that, that Irealized it have to admit that,
(05:08):
that I realized it, thankfullypretty young, in my late 20s,
that I realized that successmeant so much from the outside.
I call it chasing.
You know, keep chasing,milestone after milestone and at
the end, after you have orrather I had and achieved that.
What does it really mean?
Do I really feel that?
Good, probably that moment.
(05:28):
But is that really thatpurposeful, meaningful,
fulfilling?
In fact, I felt empty, I feltthe void, and hence I discovered
what I call the paradox ofsuccess, the flip side of
success.
Not the conventional, what wecan see, but deep down, the flip
side of success.
Call it something unconsciousthat happened, that we have it
(05:52):
all on the outside but insidedoes not necessarily feel all
that fulfilled.
That's where the paradox ofsuccess comes to play.
Hilmarie Hutchison (06:01):
I love that you mentioned that this was your
own lived experience, havingbeen caught up with all the
benchmarks of what others thinksuccess is, looking at all the
external factors and leaningtowards measuring success only
from an external viewpoint,chasing milestones but then, at
(06:22):
the end of it, for yourselffeeling that emptiness.
So why do you think theprofessional paradox resonates
so deeply today?
Nancy ho (06:32):
And far to it, my clients.
I served the C-suites, seniorexecutives, meet managers and
even business owners that it hadshowed that they have it
so-called like on the outside.
They have it all, have it allmeaning, like you know, they
have the title, they have thestatus, they have that wealth,
(06:53):
they have that network, theyhave the family, they have
so-called everything.
But inside, deep down inside,especially when they go to sleep
, it's like I don't know what'swrong.
They can't put their fingerdown to like this is wrong or
that is wrong, but just do notfeel good.
And I often say this all of us,every single individual, from
(07:16):
the youngest to the oldest inthis world, we all want the same
thing, although pretty much itmay express it in a different
way Down, we want the same thingand what's the same thing?
Although pretty much it mayexpress it in a different way
Down, we want the same thing andwhat's the same thing To feel
good.
So when one does not feel good,it's really not a good place to
be, it's really a bad space.
And we have seen a lot incelebrities, whether it could be
(07:41):
the Hollywood celebrities orany power to work celebrities.
We have known of the storiesthat they have it all, but at
the end of the day they overdose, they drink heavily, some even,
you know, take on a path thatone should not think about.
But why do they do that?
Again, the emptiness, the void,you know the part inside them
(08:02):
is screaming so loud, but yetthemselves or others cannot
understand why it should be thecase, because you have it all.
You know what I mean.
Hilmarie Hutchison (08:12):
Absolutely.
So you're saying that whateveryone is looking for is to
feel good.
Can you maybe define what thisfeel good?
Is it a feeling, is it asatisfaction?
Nancy ho (08:24):
Is it an emotional state or I'll call it an energy,
you know, because why would Inot even call it a feeling?
Because where does feelingscome from?
Feelings really come from ourthoughts.
Oh, I feel good when I buy thisbag, for example.
I feel good.
When I get a promotion, I feelgood.
When I've got another kid, Ifeel good.
Those are thoughts related.
(08:46):
I'm not saying those things willnot make a person feel good,
but those feelings are verythought, very cognitive related.
So when I talk about feel good,I'm talking about this energy
that you're just good.
You can't express it, call it asense of peace, call it a sense
of okayness.
In my language I always say youknow, it's just, it's okay.
(09:06):
Chill, whatever happened.
I feel chill, I feel okay, Ifeel at peace, I feel
comfortable within my own skin.
That's what I meant by feelgood.
I mean whether somebody iswanting that promotion, whether
somebody wanting that, you know,another million dollars, or
wanting another car, anotherhouse, I think the energy at the
end of the day is to feel good.
(09:28):
I feel good having the house, Ifeel good having the car, I
feel good having the promotion.
But after they got a car, afterthey got a house, after they
got the promotion or that babyor that whatever right they
thought that makes them feelgood.
Does this feel good reallysustain?
Hilmarie Hutchison (09:44):
That's an important point that when the
feelings come from our thoughtsso I'm going to feel good
because I spent the money doingthis or bought that that's sort
of a fleeting feeling thatpasses quite quickly and by
tomorrow or the next day or thenext week you forgot that
feeling.
Now you have to find somethingelse to get some feeling,
(10:05):
whereas what you are talkingabout is more a positive energy
and emotional state that lasts.
That's really within a person,rather than external things that
give us sort of temporaryfeeling of happiness or
something Exactly you mentionedearlier about so-called
(10:25):
professionals or people who areentrepreneurs or even maybe also
very high achievingprofessionals.
These are the kinds of peoplethat you work with closely.
What are some of the mostcommon struggles that they face
behind the scenes?
Nancy ho (10:41):
I mean the common struggles, like I said earlier
on.
Already, right, they thoughtthat pursuing that goal whatever
the goal means, or goals allright would make them feel good.
But yes, for that moment, butafter they have achieved it.
And then they said now what?
Okay, sure they can go foranother goal, another goal,
another goal.
It's a very unsettling kind ofenergy, or the feeling deep down
(11:03):
, but it's not something thatsomeone could describe.
Oh, because I've got a badrelationship with my wife or my
husband, or because I'm stressedover this or that.
You know, they just can't puttheir finger there.
But they just said somethingfeels wrong and that really
boils back to the fact I alwayscall it what is your purpose?
Hilmarie Hutchison (11:26):
Very interesting.
So realizing that pursuinggoals and milestones does not
provide lasting sense of peaceand this is something that
affects clearly those who arehigh achieving professionals,
but any person really that makesgoals or milestones achieving
(11:47):
like a checklist with thingsthat's where happiness or
feeling good is going to comefrom.
They reach those points andthen suddenly realize, wait, it
was all temporary.
This is not the lasting peaceor the sense of peace that I
hoped I would achieve.
That's what I'm understandingfrom what you've said so far.
Nancy ho (12:07):
Correct.
But then, like I said, ofcourse, of course it is
important that we do set goalsand achieve whatever goals that
we want.
You know, just like when I saidin school, we need to have that
good grades right, we need theeducation.
At the same time, you want tohave fun, you know that kind of
thing.
So it's not like one or theother.
I love that.
Hilmarie Hutchison (12:24):
So there needs to be a balance of the
things that we are pursuing.
We need to have some downtimedoing things that's feeding our
soul, while also, on theprofessional side, having some
goals.
But don't put everything in onebucket because then you're
going to be disappointed at theend.
Nancy ho (12:44):
Yeah, in fact, there are teenagers that come to me.
You know, some of these highperformers, or rather high
achievers, will send their kidsto me, you know, and of course,
like children being children, ofcourse they always shout about
I want freedom.
Right, it doesn't matter whatage.
We all want freedom to do thethings that we want.
And I said to them yes, we canhave freedom.
Then what's your issue?
Oh, that's the reason why Ispend a lot of time, you know,
(13:07):
doing what makes me happy.
So I said now the point is timefor everything Time to sleep,
time to rest, time to eat, timeto play, time to work, time for
me, time, time for couple time,time for family time.
So it's time for everything.
Of course, the balance is notequal number of hours, but not
overlooking any areas that'simportant for us as a being in a
(13:34):
holistic sense.
Hilmarie Hutchison (13:35):
Yeah, that makes absolute sense and I love
that you have the opportunity towork with young people who
still have their whole futureahead of them.
If they can learn at that youngage, in their teens, the
importance of balance, then thatsort of sets them up for the
rest of their lives to besuccessful on both fronts in
their lives.
The importance of balance, thenthat sort of sets them up for
the rest of their lives to besuccessful on both fronts in
(13:56):
their lives.
Nancy ho (13:57):
Absolutely.
Hilmarie Hutchison (13:57):
Yes, let's shift the conversation a little
bit and talk about burnout.
I know this is something thatis a huge issue, with 77% of
professionals reportingexperiencing burnout.
Why do you think burnout is soprevalent among people,
especially those who aresuccessful?
Nancy ho (14:17):
So burnout really is not about overwork To me.
It's not about overwork.
It's not about having that wow,I got so much to do, that loads
and all that.
It's really about not quitehappy doing the things we want
to do.
Not quite happy doing thethings we want to do means Not
quite happy.
Doing the things we want to domeans that I don't really want
to do that, but I have to do itright.
So you just keep doing it andit's like oh, that's too much,
(14:38):
it's just too much To me.
Again, it's an energy of theburnout.
It's not the workload, but it'slike I'm swimming against the
current.
Why am I swimming against thecurrent?
It's I'm not too pleased, I'mfed up, I'm dissatisfied with
what I'm doing, but I have to doso.
If you look at people that areso-called let's use the word
passionate, or simply they enjoywhat they do, there's no
(15:00):
burnout.
Say, let's look at marathon.
Right, somebody runs a marathon.
They may be physically tired atthe end of the marathon, but
they are never burned out.
It's like oh, my God, it's toomuch.
In fact, they'll go from onemarathon to another one and
another one.
Hilmarie Hutchison (15:12):
That makes absolute sense.
Yes, so people get burned out,not from being too busy, not
from having too much on theirplate.
They get burned out becausethey are not getting
satisfaction from the thingsthat they are doing.
So if you love what you'redoing, if you feel a purpose
behind the things you are doing,then it doesn't matter how busy
(15:32):
you are, because that fills youup, whereas if it's just feels
like mindless and there's nopurpose and you actually dread
doing it, that then leads tosomebody feeling burnt out.
I think that's a very importantdistinction and helps us to
understand why some people getburnt out or feel burnt out, and
others, who have maybe as much,if not more, on their plates,
(15:56):
are happy to continue because itgoes along with what brings
them inner peace and fulfillment.
I think that's really, reallyinteresting.
Nancy ho (16:06):
Actually I picked up the word that you said just now
was good they dragged D-R-E-A-D.
They dragged doing it.
Hilmarie Hutchison (16:12):
Yes, exactly Now, many sort of related, but
on sort of a different tangent.
Many professionals struggle toseparate their self-worth from
their job titles.
How do you help them to beginto untangle the two?
Nancy ho (16:30):
Self-worth, self-esteem all right, whichever
way you look at it, has gotnothing to do with what we do.
When you have the highself-worth, the high self-esteem
, it doesn't matter whether youknow we are walking down the
street or we are, you know,pursuing a goal, or we are at
work doing some tasking or weare leading a team, whatever
(16:53):
there is that means you know.
When you have the highself-worth, it's all about,
again, feeling comfortablewithin your own skin, feeling
good about yourself, regardlesswhere we are in the food chain,
so to speak, and all that.
I have that worth.
I remember when I was studyingin Switzerland and one at that
time, okay, I believe it's stillnow.
When I was studying inSwitzerland, and one at that
time okay, I believe it's stillnow that the service staff right
(17:14):
, whether it's in a hotel and arestaurant.
It's very interesting that a lotof them display high self-worth
Meaning what they could beserving at tables, but they
really walked in and talked toyou and serve you with that
pride that they're doing a goodjob.
They do not behave like, oh,I'm serving tables, they take
(17:34):
pride with what they do.
So I can see, even at a timewhere I was only 19 years old,
20 years old.
I look at them and I said, wow,that's self-pride, and that
self-pride comes from self-worth.
Hilmarie Hutchison (17:46):
Really interesting.
So self-esteem, or thatself-worth has nothing to do
with the actual job we're doing,but it actually is something,
again sort of linked to what yousaid earlier having purpose,
having pride.
So the person that could beserving the table or doing what
others might be considering morea low-level job, might be
(18:08):
getting more out of theirfunction or their job because
they see purpose in what theyare doing, whereas somebody who
might be earning a lot of moneymight not link or might not see
purpose or value, and so theycould be unfulfilled, even
though they might have a bigbank account, correct, correct.
Nancy ho (18:29):
A big title, a big account, but they still I mean
honestly, they still don't feelgood.
And I have that many peoplethat are like that.
They have this big title.
They come in front of me and ofcourse, the first question is
like you know, how may I assistyou?
What brought you here?
How can I serve you?
Well, depending on context andI'm very surprised some of the
(18:49):
C-suite, some of the C-suite,some of the senior executives,
actually says to me that I havea confidence issue.
You got a confidence issue.
Now, they don't mean they haveno confidence or low in
confidence in what they do.
What they really mean is likethis thing inside I call this
dingy inside that they even havethis fear of being exposed.
That, in case people think theyare not good enough for their
(19:14):
title.
Of course they are right.
They have the qualification,they have the experience, they
have the exposure and hence theword we heard of right Imposter
syndrome.
Hilmarie Hutchison (19:23):
Yes, that's something that a lot of people
who have reached a certain levelfeel like they don't actually
belong there.
Well, as you said earlier,they're going to get found out.
So it leaves that sort of veryuneasy, uncomfortable, uncertain
feeling in them, which thenalso means that their
self-esteem, their self-worth,also gets impacted by this.
(19:45):
You used a word earlier about amindset of people who have that
inner happiness, that inner joy.
I know that mindset shifts area core, that inner happiness,
that inner joy.
I know that mindset shifts area core part of the work that you
do.
What is one mindset shift youbelieve every executive needs to
make today?
Nancy ho (20:04):
The right mindset really has to be very internal,
not about external, that likethe role or the title, but
rather something that it boilsdown to attitude.
I will put it this way it boilsdown to attitude, how we see
life, how we perceive life, howwe live life.
So, for example, one of themindsets I always said don't be
(20:24):
the best.
It's crazy I say that right.
The listeners now I'm sure likewhat?
Don't be the best?
Of course I'm not saying be bad.
I said don't be the bestbecause best has a ceiling.
Seek excellence, excellence.
Always be better, better,better.
You are seeking that, you know.
Step up.
I always call it step up, levelup, not because of chasing a
(20:47):
title, but because of themindset to always want to excel
within oneself, to become better.
The becoming, the becoming ofme.
So it's very internal and it'san absolutely positive energy.
The becoming how would I wantto show up for myself?
Not about how I want to show upfor the world to see.
(21:10):
Call it whether a standard, anidea, call it what it looks like
for myself, so that at the endof the day I am satisfied with
who I am.
That's the mindset I'm talkingabout.
Hilmarie Hutchison (21:25):
Yes, so it's not about wanting to be the
best, but constantly, as yousaid, seeking excellence or to
be better or to be growing.
So if you have that mindsetthat I am constantly trying to
improve myself, rather than I'mtrying to reach a particular
plateau but then beingdisappointed when we get there,
(21:48):
rather have this mindset ofconstantly improving and finding
ways to grow and to be better,what advice would you give for
entrepreneurs or C-levelexecutives who feel successful
but unfulfilled?
Nancy ho (22:03):
Cole written this book with Jack Canfield, the guy
that had been around for a longtime with the chicken soup for
the soul.
This book is Success Redefined,and there were other authors as
well that we called writtenthis book called Success
Redefined, and my chapter isabout the paradox of success,
the hidden struggles ofhigh-performing professionals.
So, to answer your question, Iactually, especially in that
(22:27):
chapter, wrote about you knowfive steps.
You know five steps that we canfocus on fulfillment.
One is introspection.
We have to look inwards, lookinside, all right, to know the
fundamental, our values, ourNorth Star, particularly, like I
(22:47):
said, the direction, not thedirection of a goal, but the
direction of deep down inside.
What's my values, my corevalues, what is important, what
matters.
So when you come from thatspace, then it's really internal
.
Then next we need to look intoindividual improvement, and the
individual improvement includesnot being ignorant to what's
(23:09):
happening in this world, Forexample, the AI.
Right, I know everybody talksabout AI, so I'm not just
talking about oh, you got toknow what's AI, but really the
application of it in the realworld.
How does that impact on my life, Not just not my job, but you
know my life, or whatever elseout there that is happening,
(23:30):
that I need to know and need toimprove to be in alignment to
what's out there.
And, of course, the third stepis integrating your personal and
professional life.
As I said earlier on about, youknow, being a kid, I already
knew, right, you need to workand you need to play right that
kind of integrating them.
Earlier I said right Time foreverything, right, my me time,
my family time, the couple time,especially, my own personal
(23:53):
time with myself.
And the fourth step isinterpersonal investment,
meaning this is more aboutrelationship, right?
What kind of relationship?
The type of relationship thatyou want.
Friendship is that the fairweather friendship that you want
.
You just have lots of friendsare looking good, you know, or
you really want friends.
That meant something.
(24:13):
Right To each his own.
I'm not going to say what isimportant, but to really
investing in the interpersonalway with people.
And, of course, the fifth one,last but not least, always
investing in yourself.
When I say the investment, I'mtalking about a combination of
self-care that's also investingyourself.
All right, the self-care, yourfinance, relationship I've
(24:35):
mentioned earlier on, you know,being the best version of
yourself, All that areconsidered as investing yourself
.
Yeah, these are the five stepsthat I talk about, so that one
can feel fulfilled.
Hilmarie Hutchison (24:47):
Thank you for sharing that with us.
So if somebody wants to go readmore deeply about this, then
they need to go and read thatbook, success Redefined, and
find your chapter on the paradoxof success.
Yes, the paradox of success,yeah, I happen to be.
On chapter two.
You mentioned here severaltimes about that balance.
How do you personally maintainbalance while supporting others?
Nancy ho (25:10):
to do the same.
I always say I'm first apractitioner, then a coach.
Everything that I coach aboutis everything that I do for
myself first.
So, like the five steps I talkabout early on, I practice them.
Number one my self-care.
I invest.
Number one my self-care.
I invest time, effort, money.
When I say money I don't meangoing for like procedures and
(25:33):
stuff like that.
When I say money I mean, likesometimes, certain kind of
external thing like a goodmassage, a good kind of holistic
treatment going to the gymalthough I got my own home gym
and all that sort of thing.
So it's time, effort and moneyfor self-care.
That's the first thing one mustnot neglect.
Hilmarie Hutchison (25:58):
Excellent.
I love that.
So you practice what you preach, so you have that balance, and
then you're willing to, and youdo.
You prioritize looking afteryourself, your own self-care,
and be that through your time,effort and money.
And I think sometimes, when weare very busy and we've got lots
of responsibilities, it's very,very easy to neglect our
self-care.
We put everything and everyoneelse first, and then there's no
(26:18):
time or resources left for us totake care of ourselves.
And I think if we can have onetakeaway from our discussion
with you today, it is thatself-care is a priority and
should be a priority, becausethat is what helps us to
maintain that balance thatyou've been speaking about
throughout our conversationtoday.
(26:38):
That's right.
Now we have come to the segmentof our show where I will ask
you some rapid fire questions,our version of a game show.
Are you ready?
Sure, one word to describe yourcoaching style Upfront and
personal.
A morning ritual that you neverskip.
Nancy ho (26:56):
My exercise.
That's the first thing I do.
I wake up, I do what isnecessary and then, like I said,
I've got my own home gym andthen I get changed to go to my
home gym.
A book that changed yourmindset oh, there's so many
really, but if we talk about theone that really impacted me a
lot not very commercial in asense, it's from the Three
Principles.
His name is Sidney Banks.
(27:17):
It's no longer with us, but allthe books from him have taken
shape for me.
Hilmarie Hutchison (27:22):
Yeah, lovely .
In one word, what doesfulfillment mean to you?
Nancy ho (27:27):
It means I go to sleep and I'm at peace.
Hilmarie Hutchison (27:31):
What is one thing you do every day, no
matter how busy you get?
Rest, oh excellent, very good.
Well, thank you for playingalong.
Now I would like to ask you asignature Green Pool question.
If you took the Green Pool togo back in time and change one
thing about your journey, whatwould it be?
Nancy ho (27:51):
Relationships.
How do I mean?
You've heard early on that I'vegot a mom that's kind of an
entrepreneur and she's tough andthe only thing I knew from her
not blaming her, I'm thankfulfor that is tough love.
So therefore that's the onlything I know how to apply.
It can become so tough.
I meant well, Just like mymother.
The intention is positive, it'sout of love, Anything that I
(28:13):
say, anything that I do.
But then again, different folks, different stroke.
Not everybody can subscribe totough love.
So if I can change anythingelse, I would like to change
being more fluid, being moreadaptable to the other person,
rather than just being sofixated about my belief, even if
it's all positive.
Hilmarie Hutchison (28:34):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you for sharing.
That's a very personal learningfrom your own life that you've
shared with us, and I reallyappreciate that you did that,
because I think that kind ofself-reflection is so good, and
good for us to also realizesometimes the approach we know,
the approach maybe, as you said,that our parents gave us might
not always serve us in the bestway, and so being willing to say
(28:57):
you know what I can do thisdifferently different people, as
you said, different strokes fordifferent folks so that we need
to possibly approach differentpeople in a different way, and
tough love is not always theanswer, depending on the person
and on the situation.
So thank you so much forsharing that very personal
experience with us and thank youalso for being here today and
(29:19):
for this excellent conversation.
I've really enjoyed it.
Nancy ho (29:22):
Thank you, my pleasure Once again appreciate Before we
go?
Hilmarie Hutchison (29:26):
where can our listeners connect with you
or learn more about yourcoaching and the professional
paradox?
Nancy ho (29:34):
First, of course, my website is easy to remember
Nancyhonet, n-a-n-c-y-h-o, dotnet, n-e-t.
Or you can just search whetherit's in LinkedIn, whether it is
in Facebook, all the socialplatforms.
Like Coach Nancy Ho, singapore,you definitely can find me and
I look forward to connecting.
(29:55):
I would love to haveconversation with your listeners
, all right and time.
If there's any question,anything, I want to connect with
me, most welcome.
Hilmarie Hutchison (30:03):
Excellent.
Thank you so much for that andto our listeners, thank you for
tuning in to another episode ofthe Matrix Green Pearl Podcast.
If you've ever felt like yourouter success didn't quite match
your inner experience, thisepisode is your invitation to
redefine the rules.
Be sure to subscribe, leave usa five-star review and join us
(30:27):
again next week for moreinspiring conversations.
Until next time, stay balanced,stay mindful and keep growing
with purpose.
If you enjoy our conversations,please like and subscribe.
See you next Wednesday.
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