September 10, 2025 • 40 mins
About Sara Beattie
Sara Beattie is a UAE-based positive psychology practitioner, menopause coach, and educator with a rich background in teaching across Asia, the UK, and the Middle East. With a master's in Applied Positive Psychology and Coaching Psychology, Sara brings together emotional well-being, education, and creativity in her approach to supporting women in midlife. She is the co-author of two impactful research studies—From Isolation to Agency and The Age of Renewal—which explore the emotional and psychological dimensions of menopause.
Sara is on a mission to shift the narrative from silence and stigma to empowerment, creativity, and renewal for women entering this pivotal life stage.
About this Episode
In this deeply insightful and empowering episode of The Matrix Green Pill Podcast, host Hilmarie Hutchison sits down with Sara Beattie to explore the often-overlooked topic of menopause—and how Sara is helping women navigate it with compassion, creativity, and clarity.
Sara shares her journey from international teaching to becoming a menopause coach, including the personal challenges that led her to pursue groundbreaking research on the emotional impact of menopause. From the lack of education and cultural taboos to the rise of misleading wellness products, Sara discusses the gaps that exist—and the creative, community-based solutions she’s offering through her coaching and projects like The Age of Renewal.
She explains how her work helps women reframe menopause not as an “age of despair” but as a time for reflection, rediscovery, and personal growth. Through group work, self-compassion exercises, and even expressive art and poetry, Sara creates safe, non-judgmental spaces where women can share their experiences and find new purpose.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about midlife transitions, emotional wellness, or supporting women during this powerful life phase. Sara’s honest reflections and practical advice offer a refreshing, hopeful perspective that will resonate with women and allies alike.
Quotes
2:35 - I've had the benefit of seeing and learning from a lot of different people and a lot of different cultures, and that everybody comes with a slightly different perspective on how to make somewhere feel home, particularly if it's not where you were born and raised, and how you look after yourself, and also how you look after each other in a society where you may not have access to family in the same way.
3:55 - This really empowers people to just work through something that they're a little bit stuck on, help them get unstuck.
9:26 - You're never too old to learn anything.
12:16 - Whatever's come up for you this week and the power of a group of wise women in a room cannot be underestimated the value of being heard and seen.
14:25 - It's important that there are spaces and places and people that women can talk to, and you're so right about the not knowing who to listen to.
15:32 - Women just need a bit of clarity, and I think you can support that and suggest that women just tune into themselves a little bit and maybe keep track of what's going on and what is usual or normal for them.
18:22 - Some women are quite happy to sit down and really talk about it, and some women really struggle.
18:58 - Don't get told about any of the other things. But yes, the education piece is so important.
19:34 - I believe very strongly that when we are able to think creatively not artistically, but creatively we can bypass the need for language and think about things in a different way.
21:32
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hilmarie Hutchison (00:04):
Hello and welcome back to the Matrix Green
Pill Podcast.
I'm your host, hilmarieHutchison, and today's guest
brings an insightful andempowering voice to a topic
that's often overlooked butdeeply impactful.
Joining me is Sarah Beattie, aUAE-based positive psychology
practitioner and menopause coach.
(00:25):
Sarah is the co-author of twopowerful research studies, both
focused on understanding andtransforming the lived
experience of menopause.
With a background in teachingand a master's in applied
positive psychology, sarahblends education, emotional
well-being and creativity ineverything she does.
(00:46):
I am so looking forward to thisconversation, sarah.
Welcome and thank you so muchfor joining me today.
Sara Beattie (00:53):
Yeah, hi.
Thanks for the lovelyintroduction.
It's great to be here.
Hilmarie Hutchison (00:56):
So, sarah let's begin with your story.
Can you share a little bitabout your background and what
led you to the UAE?
Sara Beattie (01:08):
your background and what led you to the UAE?
Yes, so I was born and raisedin England and my mum's English,
my dad's from New Zealand, so Ialways had a mixed culture
background and my mum had been abit of a trailblazer and left
the UK on a boat, travelled sixweeks to New Zealand back in the
50s, and so there was alwaysthis element of other cultures,
other places the world's anamazing place to explore in my
(01:29):
family and in my upbringing, andI ended up being one of those
eternal expats, living in Asiafor 23 years, then went back to
London for a little bit recently, and then my husband had an
opportunity to work on COP28here in Dubai.
So we lived separately for alittle bit, and at that point,
I'll admit, I was gettingslightly itchy feet and he had
(01:52):
been offered a few opportunitiesover here, and so it was time
to take them.
The kids are all grown up doingamazing things and being
amazing humans, and it was timefor a change.
Hilmarie Hutchison (02:02):
Amazing, Wow .
So you had quite a very, quitean interesting background.
I love how your mom was such afantastic role model for you.
You said the way you said shewas a trailblazer as well, so
she was the one that empathizedthe driving force behind moving
all over the place, which wouldhave given you a much wider view
of the world than somebody whohasn't traveled or lived in so
(02:25):
many different places.
You've lived and worked incountries across Asia and now in
the UAE.
How has your expat journeyshaped your perspective on
well-being and midlifechallenges?
Sara Beattie (02:35):
I've had the benefit of seeing and learning
from a lot of different peopleand a lot of different cultures,
and that everybody comes with aslightly different perspective
on how to make somewhere feelhome, particularly if it's not
where you were born and raised,and how you look after yourself,
and also how you look aftereach other in a society where
you may not have access tofamily in the same way.
Hilmarie Hutchison (02:55):
Yes, so you've seen it from different
perspectives.
Sara Beattie (02:58):
Absolutely, and I think it's been very helpful to
kind of have that in mind,particularly coming up to that
midlife change, as you say,because women often don't have
the same support systems inplace that they might have if
they were living at home.
Hilmarie Hutchison (03:12):
Yes, absolutely so.
How did you get into thecoaching space?
Sara Beattie (03:17):
So I was invited a few years ago to join.
So at that time I was teaching.
I had a very long and happycareer teaching and I was doing
lots of work to do with positiveeducation and wellbeing for
children and that was spreadinginto wanting to introduce some
ideas for staff wellbeing.
And another colleague had justdiscovered coaching and said to
(03:41):
me oh, you should do a thingabout coaching.
You do this stuff all the time,you just don't know that you're
doing it.
And I was lucky enough to go ona short course and discovered
coaching and what it is and howit works and just went wow, this
is extraordinary.
This really empowers people tojust work through something that
they're a little bit stuck on,help them get unstuck, move from
(04:02):
A to B without it being thisbig heavy thing that sometimes
you know.
It serves that lovely spot.
That therapy is amazing if youreally need to work on something
deep seated, and counselling isbrilliant if you want to work
on something that's sort of animmediate problem that you've
got to sort out the emotionalproblem Whereas coaching looks
at where you are and where youwant to go and helps you figure
(04:25):
out how to get there Around.
The same time, I knew I wantedto do more with it and I'd just
done a little bit of researchand found a master's course in
applied positive psychology andcoaching psychology, which at
the time, I was living in HongKong and they were not doing
anything online.
So I had to wait and wait andwait for about six years till I
got to London and finally hadthe chance to do it, and it
(04:47):
happened to come 2020.
And I started in January, so acouple of months before lockdown
and it was the mostextraordinary experience to work
on understanding more aboutthat science of flourishing and
living a good life from whateveryour starting point.
Flourishing and living a goodlife from whatever your starting
(05:08):
point, and the importance ofunderstanding and experiencing
the range of emotions that we ashumans do.
And alongside that, elements inthis course were elements of
coaching and again, I justthought that was wonderful.
It coincided with probably themost impactful of my own
menopause symptoms and in 2020,people weren't talking about it.
(05:29):
I could only go to my doctorwho said well, you've managed
this far.
Surely you can sail on throughat this point.
I'm known in my family as Doze,because I can curl up and sleep
anywhere, so for me not to besleeping.
I knew it was quite bad.
That, of course, impacts everyother aspect of your life.
You know I wasn't turning up atwork in the way I should be.
(05:52):
I wasn't just not being myselfand did a little bit of my own
research into what could becausing this and discovered at
that time there was one book,just one, from Louise Newsom.
I ended up buying a copy onlineand I took it down to my
doctors and I said do you knowthis doctor?
She's an NHS doctor.
Do you know about her work?
No, he said.
(06:12):
I said well, I'd like you toread this book and come, and
I'll be back next week.
Hilmarie Hutchison (06:17):
The patient giving the doctor homework to do
.
I love it.
Sara Beattie (06:26):
Well, I was fortunate because I'd gone
expecting to speak to the samedoctor who'd said to me sail on
through.
But actually it was a locum andit was a young man in his 30s.
He was very open and said yes,I'll read this, but in the
meantime, do you want someantidepressants?
Like no, I'm not depressed.
That's not what this is.
Anyway, I went back a weeklater and he said yeah, I've
read it and actually I'veordered a copy for the practice
because I think we all need toread it.
It was quite a moment, I have tosay.
(06:47):
And so, through all of thatcombination of things, I got to
the end of my master's, about todo my dissertation, and it was
going to be something to do withcoaching and education, and my
supervisor said to me hey, we'vebeen talking about a few things
.
She said you know, you can goback to the education stuff
tomorrow.
This is a one chance you've got.
You're on this course and youcould do it on anything, and it
(07:08):
doesn't have to be to do withyour normal everyday job.
It just can be something thatyou really would like to do.
And I said well then, let's dosomething about menopause,
because it's having a massiveimpact and I know that people
aren't talking about it and Iknow that if I'm struggling,
there's going to be a lot ofother people who need some
support in this, and that's howI came to do my dissertation, my
first bit of research.
Hilmarie Hutchison (07:29):
So you loved your teaching, you loved what
you were doing and yet that sortof naturally flowed into
something that you found yourpassion in being interested in
well-being, and it's amazing howsometimes in life we can't
steer, we can't decide ahead oftime where life is going to take
us and in your case, I mean,you've got a.
Yours is a perfect example ofthat, where you started in one
(07:53):
way in one career and that sortof then moved you into something
quite different.
In the end it's still a caringand teaching type of situation,
but in a totally sort ofdifferent field, one from being
an educator and one abouthelping people through a very
difficult time and, as youmentioned, it coincided with
your own journey, so your ownneed was there.
(08:15):
That also then inspired you todo the research down that same
path, where you could see thatpeople were not talking about
something that affects half thepopulation sometime in their
lives.
So it was certainly.
It is an important topic to betalking about, and I love how
you used COVID-2020, that periodwhen people were in lockdown to
go through your master's, if Iunderstood that correctly.
Sara Beattie (08:39):
Yeah, that's right .
So I was doing my master's.
I was still working, so I hadto teach online every day.
My lovely class, but it gave mespace and time at home to look
at that study stuff.
Hilmarie Hutchison (08:53):
So it was very fortuitous timing, I think
you took on such a big thing.
As you said, you were headinginto menopause, so you're not in
your 20s clearly, and yet youdecided to take on a master's at
this age.
So also, I think it's anexcellent example for all of us.
We never pass the time where wecan learn or change direction
in our careers.
Sara Beattie (09:11):
Absolutely.
That's something else I have tocredit my parents for.
So my father unfortunatelypassed away.
He was only 67.
But when we were going throughhis things he was studying for a
maths exam because he justwanted to prove he could do it.
Just that understanding fromboth of them.
You know, you're never too oldto learn anything.
Hilmarie Hutchison (09:27):
Your mom was a fantastic role model here,
and your dad was as well I mean,at 67, still studying, trying
to get some more educationAbsolutely fantastic.
And this is great for allparents, for all of those
listening to this podcast.
As parents, we can set thatexample of wanting to learn and
never thinking we're beyondlearning something new.
(09:48):
Excellent, I love that you'veshared that with us.
Now let's talk about some ofyour research.
Firstly, your research projectfrom isolation to agency has
been widely recognized.
What were some of the keyfindings that stood out to you
from that study?
Sara Beattie (10:05):
So a couple of things.
When you start a bit ofresearch, you have to do a
literature review, which meansyou have to read all the papers
and all the studies and try andfind out what everybody already
knows so that you have astarting point.
There wasn't anything.
There was stuff about hotflushes, there was stuff about
body changes and night sweatsand lots of the very physical
(10:26):
symptoms, but there was nothingabout the more emotional or
psychological impacts thatmenopause can have.
And I noticed that when I hadstarted talking to a couple of
friends, there were a couplesort of in denial Lots of people
.
You know I'm scared of this.
It sounds awful and I wanted tolook into that.
(10:47):
So I ended up because there wasno springboard for me.
I had a wide scope and I endedup looking at self-compassion in
perimenopausal women.
Experiencing brain fog Brain fogwas and still bugs me to this
day was probably my trickiestsymptom.
What was extraordinary was Ihad the gift of working with
(11:08):
women in five different timezones, all sharing their
experience, and so I was a ladyin Italy and Germany and Abu
Dhabi and Hong Kong andAustralia.
Although their individual pathswere a little bit different,
their journey was the same andthey'd felt completely isolated.
They didn't know what was goingon.
They knew they weren'tthemselves, but they didn't know
(11:31):
what to do about it.
So there was a surprisingnumber of these women who had
been to ask for help whether itwas their family, their friends
or a doctor and then had beenalmost brushed away and that led
to very strong feelings ofisolation.
In fact, one of my ladies saidI feel like a nomad on an island
(11:52):
in my own home, which has stuckwith me all this time.
A lady who's got a very closesibling and she said, oh, my
sister said no, I don't want totalk about it.
And a lady, as I said, incomplete denial.
(12:13):
You know, I don't want this tohappen to me.
So we worked with a series ofself-compassion exercises and we
also spent time together justtalking.
Whatever's come up for you thisweek and the power of a group of
wise women in a room cannot beunderestimated the value of
being heard and seen and justsharing in a space where people
are saying, oh my God, I thoughtI had Alzheimer's or oh, is
(12:36):
this what it is?
I didn't realize it was morethan my period stopping and
having a few hot flushes,because that's what I was told
at school.
We weren't educated in this.
A woman put it brilliantly.
She said well, where's thevillage?
You know, when you're inpuberty or you're pregnant,
everybody wants to talk about itand everybody wants to give you
advice.
Whether you want it or not,what happens?
(12:56):
Where's the village?
At this point in life, when youneed just as much support, just
as much understanding fromother people, and it's just not
there.
Hilmarie Hutchison (13:05):
As you also said, there's not much
information, and also theinformation that is out there,
there's a lot of controversyaround the types of the way to
deal with it.
There's a lot of controversyand confusion around the way to
deal with the symptoms ofmenopause, so you almost don't
know who to listen to, who tobelieve, which direction, which
(13:26):
medication.
And what I loved about theresearch you did is you've taken
women from so many differenttime zones, as you mentioned,
different backgrounds, but allon the same journey and all
experiencing a lot of the sameissues.
Some of the same feelings ofisolation, of really not knowing
, also mentioned.
People don't want to talk aboutit.
They almost feel like we'llshove it under or sweep it under
(13:46):
the rug and then nothing willhappen.
It doesn't take away what'shappening to women and to their
bodies during this period.
Sara Beattie (13:54):
Absolutely.
I think you've really capturedthat, and I remember talking to
a friend and she said well, thething is, you don't hear, you
don't go and have a drink orcoffee or go to the pub or
whatever it is, and you don'thear people chatting in that way
, and it's not necessarilysomething our mothers talked
about, and so if our mothersweren't talking about it, then
there's probably, you know,maybe we shouldn't, and for some
(14:16):
people, there's this associatedjust fear or, for some people,
a bit of shame.
My family doesn't talk aboutthis, and that's where it's
important that there are spacesand places and people that women
can talk to, and you're soright about the not knowing who
to listen to.
It's funny.
When I was doing my originalbit of research this was 2021,
(14:38):
my husband said to me at thetime as soon as companies
realize that if they put theword menopause on, there's women
in their 40s, 50s who've gotmoney to spend, you will see it
everywhere.
And he couldn't have been moreright.
Hilmarie Hutchison (14:50):
Yeah, so people are actually or companies
are actually taking advantageof women because there's
actually no, as you mentioned,there's no real research,
there's no real information.
So you can just offer, promise,talk about things and sell
things without that actually hasno benefit to people, just
because not enough informationout there about it.
(15:11):
But as women who have been sosuccessful, they've had a career
, they've done so much in theirlives to get to this point in
their lives, and then there'sbig gap of knowledge where
there's not.
There's all this confusionhappening, all these changes
happening and there's not muchresearch, not much information
to help people.
It's a really sad state ofaffairs.
Sara Beattie (15:30):
Yeah, I agree, and women just need a bit of
clarity, and I think you cansupport that and suggest that
women just tune into themselvesa little bit and maybe keep
track of what's going on andwhat is usual or normal for them
, so that when things startchanging then they're aware it's
like oh, actually I've startedhaving a headache every month,
(15:52):
or that's funny, I'm forgettinga few things and I know I'm busy
and yeah, I've got this thingon at work and yes, I've got my
aging parents to worry about, or, you know, maybe my teens or
whatever it is.
I think that's also one of thetricky things about
perimenopause and menopause isthat it comes at a time when you
are naturally busy in your lifeNot that there's ever a time
(16:12):
that you're not busy, but itseems to be.
It's like a sandwich stage.
There you are in the middle,and above you you've got aging
parents or parents who live in adifferent country that you
might be worrying about.
You may have children, or youmay have kids away at university
or something else to worryabout, and it's like you're the
sandwich filling in the middleand so you tend to stretch
yourself to worry about otherpeople first.
Hilmarie Hutchison (16:34):
Yes, I think that's quite natural for them
to do that, to take on a lot ontheir shoulders and, as you say,
you could put down yourtiredness or your brain fog or
all these other symptoms youcould be putting that down to
I'm just busy, I'm just stressed.
There's just so much going onwithout actually recognizing
that there's actually a changehappening for you.
(16:55):
I love that you were guided todo your research into this
because, as you said at thattime, you could have done it
about anything.
Done it about childhoodeducation, focused on the
teaching aspect, which there's amillion studies about.
So I absolutely love that youused this opportunity to look
into the menopause period of awoman's life.
I'm grateful that you went downthat path rather than the other
(17:17):
.
Let's just focus a little bitand talk about the Age of
Renewal project.
How did this project come aboutand what makes it different
from other menopause researchefforts?
Sara Beattie (17:28):
In my first bit of research, as I mentioned, we've
got lots of women who wereexperiencing isolation and
confusion and then, once they'dhad the opportunity to reflect
with a little bit ofself-compassion and come
together in a group, that wasempowering.
So I knew that there was powerin getting women together and
giving them opportunities toshare.
In my work with individuals andgroups, since I noticed that
(17:53):
women often weren't quite sureof the words to find to express
what's going on, and sometimesthat's because they're a little
bit whether they're feeling alittle bit confused.
They don't actually know what'shappening and so it's hard to
describe, or maybe for somewomen they don't.
It's denial again or a littlebit of shame, and so the ability
(18:17):
to find the words to expresswhat's going on wasn't always
easy.
Some women are quite happy tosit down and really talk about
it, and some women reallystruggle.
Hilmarie Hutchison (18:27):
Could it also be just the lack of
education around the topic ofmenopause?
Sara Beattie (18:32):
Yeah, that's such an important thing to bring up.
I mean most women my age, likeI said before, you know you have
the one lesson In fact I canclearly remember it because it's
the same day we have the condomlesson.
So nobody's going to thinkabout the menopause sentence
because you're teenagers andyou're too busy thinking about
the other end of it.
We were just told that you knowyou get to about 50, your
periods will start and you'llget hot flashes.
(18:53):
Well, you don't know what hotflashes are, but you're
teenagers and awkward, sonobody's going to ask.
Don't get told about any of theother things.
But yes, the education piece isso important.
So when I shifted from teachingto coaching, because I'd loved
teaching, I didn't quite want todrop it entirely, and so I
thought I'd bring with it someof the things I loved.
And some of the things I lovedwere getting kids to think about
(19:15):
things in different andcreative ways.
So, rather than write aboutsomething, we might build a
model, or we might go into thewoods and find a stick and three
leaves and show me a particularconcept using things in nature,
or you know what color isTuesday, and things like that,
and I wanted to bring that funelement into my coaching because
I believe very strongly thatwhen we are able to think
(19:36):
creatively not artistically, butcreatively we can bypass the
need for language and thinkabout things in a different way.
And so in my work if people areinterested, they can work with
me just talking, or they canchoose to bring in Lego or
collage, do some lovely workthrough collage, or we might
(19:58):
just use the objects on yourdesk.
And so I've noticed when we dothings like that, it just gives
people a different way to thinkabout something and they start
thinking about on a deeper level.
It just bypasses that need forvocabulary.
Hilmarie Hutchison (20:11):
I love how you've taken some of your
aspects of teaching, the way weteach children, bringing a fun
element and, as you say, makingit creative so that you don't
need to have, there's no needfor words, but you can still
express the menopause experiencethrough these creative mediums
like art, poetry.
You mentioned collage.
(20:31):
I love that that you've takensuch a different approach to a
topic that's really difficultsometimes to understand,
sometimes difficult to expressthe feelings or what one is
going through.
So I absolutely love that youdescribe menopause as a time of
renewal.
Love that you describemenopause as a time of renewal.
(20:53):
Can you talk about how thatreframe is helping women embrace
this?
Sara Beattie (20:55):
stage of life.
Yes, what a lovely question.
The age of renewal I discoveredwhen I got here to Dubai.
Actually, my understanding isthat it's a rebrand from the age
of despair, which is whatmenopause had previously been
known as in the region.
There was a marketing campaign,I think, with Tenor, who were
(21:16):
trying to suggest that maybethat wasn't the best way to
phrase menopause, and they, Ithink they did a public survey
and it ended up coming out asbeing the age of renewal, and I
love that because that's exactlywhat it is.
As women go through this phase,it's a chance to reflect and to
(21:38):
reconnect with parts ofthemselves that they may have
forgotten but maybedeprioritized.
So I'll often be working withwomen who will say well, you
know, when I was 20, I reallywanted to write a book, or I
used to sing in a choir, but Idon't really have time anymore,
or I used to love painting orwhatever it is.
And it's this lovely time toreset, recalibrate, if you like,
(22:04):
where you are, who you are andwho you want to be, and what is
still important to you and whatyou maybe want to readjust and
let go of or reignite thoselovely things that used to bring
you joy.
Hilmarie Hutchison (22:17):
That's a lovely way to describe it Time
and opportunity.
I love how you said it's anopportunity to recalibrate who
you are.
Sara Beattie (22:25):
No, it's all right , and I was just going to say so
.
Part of when I'm working withwomen, whether it's groups or
individuals, there is this, yeah, this reflection.
So, as well as an understandingof what's going on, there's
this reflection time that's justfor you and that's often quite
hard to find when you're busy,so that in itself is a little
gift, and then we do take timeto think about those
(22:47):
opportunities.
What do you want this next bitof your life to look like?
Hilmarie Hutchison (22:54):
And how are we going to make that happen?
I think just to also thatawareness that this is a change
and there is something that youcan do to make a positive
experience.
I love how you say that, therebranding of the term from an
age of despair, which is such anegative, awful term to have, to
the age of renewal, which givessomething so positive,
(23:14):
something almost to look forwardto.
I love that, that whole changeof mindset about the topic of
menopause.
What are some commonmisconceptions about menopause
that you're trying to changethrough your work?
Sara Beattie (23:29):
That it's all doom and gloom.
So there's been a real increasein some circles of people
talking about menopause.
The fact that you and I aretalking about it now this
wouldn't have happened a fewyears ago right, and I think
that's a really positive thing.
But it's like a pendulum swingand it's very much in the world.
These terrible, uncomfortablethings are going to happen and
(23:51):
that's not necessarily the casefor everybody.
The symptoms that womenexperience are individualized.
I mean, there might be someoverlap.
You're definitely on your ownpath with it and there's ways to
manage that.
So that's one of the things.
And the other thing I thinkthat really needs to happen is
it's back to the point that youwere making earlier is about
(24:13):
education for everybody.
This isn't just a women'sproblem.
So, a, it's not a problem, it'sjust part of growing and B
impact everybody.
Women are going to experienceit.
But men have mothers, sisters,wives, daughters, colleagues.
You know it's a danger ofovercooking it and suggesting
(24:51):
then that women, who are already, you know, a little on the back
foot when it comes to workplaceor maybe, depending on their
sector, they become just alittle bit in the difficult box
because they might have children, they might take time off for
childcare, and now you'retelling me that they might need
time off again when they're intheir 40s and 50s.
(25:12):
So I think we need to be verycautious around the global
understanding of this.
Hilmarie Hutchison (25:18):
It's a very interesting consideration,
something I actually hadn'tthought about, but it does make
sense because you can almostpaint it in talking about it, by
bringing it to the forefront,people might actually become
more aware and only see thenegative.
So in the communication, in theawareness it needs to be more
of, there's a solution and bytalking about it, by dealing
(25:40):
with it, by educating ourselves,it actually is a positive thing
.
It's not a negative thingbecause it can so easily go the
wrong direction.
Everyone's talking about it,but it's only highlighting the
negative, if that makes sense.
Sara Beattie (25:53):
Absolutely.
And that brings it back to thatpiece I've just done, that Age
of Renewal.
So women were invited to sharein whatever way was making sense
.
So some women wrote poetry, wehad nail art, we had collage,
some amazing ceramics and someextraordinary painted portraits,
and a lot of poetry, and somewomen spoke, or just, you know,
(26:15):
brain dumped, and what camethrough very strongly was that,
yes, at times this had beentricky, partly because I didn't
know what was going on and Ihadn't been educated about this,
and partly because the supportsystems weren't quite right.
But this change through thisjourney to one of hope and what
(26:37):
was renewal so I'll use thatword again was overwhelmingly
shone through.
So, yes, there's what comesthrough as you learn more and
you understand more about what'sgoing on.
Is that message that this is?
You're coming into your age ofwisdom and sovereignty and
owning yourself and who you arein a way that you haven't done
(26:58):
before.
Hilmarie Hutchison (26:59):
I love that.
Also, as we mentioned earlier,this period of the journey is
not negative.
Don't see it as negative.
See it as a positive, as youmentioned about the reframing
around the terminology.
See it as negative.
See it as a positive, as youmentioned about the reframing
around the terminology.
See it as an opportunity torelook at things and make, maybe
, different choices.
Even now it's not too late.
But I think that positiveconversation around this period
(27:20):
of a woman's life is soimportant and so impactful
because in the past no one spokeabout it and so, as you
mentioned, people feel a woman,felt lonely, felt cut off, felt
isolated, and just making itpossible for women to talk and
be recognized in this space willmake all the difference to
their journey.
Yeah, I totally agree.
(27:41):
You recently presented at theInternational Positive
Psychology Association WorldCongress in Australia.
Can you tell us a little?
Sara Beattie (27:49):
bit about that.
I did so.
I took that piece, the Age ofRenewal, that I was just
mentioning, that arts-basedpiece.
We had 1,000 delegates from 60countries and it's researchers
sharing what they're discoveringabout well-being, whether
that's on an individual group,cultural or societal level, and
there were some extraordinarythings being talked about.
(28:11):
And I presented the Age ofRenewal with a colleague, janie
Janie Stricker, and she and Ihad received these wonderful
images of artwork or poetry orwords from people, and because
most or a majority ofsubmissions had been in poetry,
I decided to actually present itas a poem.
(28:33):
We did our analysis on the workwe'd received and then took
different elements and wove ittogether as a poem.
It was well received, in fact.
A lady, she stood up at the endand she said I've never wanted
to give a standing ovation at aconference before.
Hilmarie Hutchison (28:47):
Wow, what an amazing experience.
Sara Beattie (28:50):
It was lovely, but there was an interesting, it
was a very wonderful opportunityto share work about menopause
and I have to say I was quitedisappointed, I guess is the
word Well, surprised, butdisappointed that you know there
were dozens of speakers andseveral student posters, you
(29:10):
know current research and yet wewere the only people talking
about menopause and that reallyquite surprised me, actually,
just at this point where theconversation has really started
and there's lots of peopletalking about it, I guess it's
lots of people are talking aboutit, if you know they're talking
about it.
Hilmarie Hutchison (29:27):
Yeah, but it also shows you that there's
lots of people talking about it.
I guess it's lots of people aretalking about it, if you know
they're talking about it.
Yeah, but it also shows youthat there's definitely still a
need for people like you andothers to make more noise, to
bring more awareness, because somuch of the focus is oftentimes
I mean, I wasn't at thisCongress but so much of the
focus is often on young childrenor adolescents and their
development and there's not thatmuch talk about women in the
(29:49):
menopause phase of their lives.
It's amazing that you were ableto make a presentation about
your findings and I love how yousaid that you presented it in
the form of a poem, which isabsolutely fantastic.
Let's change direction a littlebit.
What has surprised you the mostabout working with women on
their midlife?
Sara Beattie (30:07):
journey, the positive change that comes.
So I have some clients will comeand they may have been through
coaching before, and so theyunderstand the process and what
might happen and they know thatthere's an expectation on them.
You know, come with awillingness to change and
they're brilliant because theyjump straight in and tell you
all the things and then figureout their plan.
(30:28):
And then there's the ladies whocome and who aren't quite sure.
They just know that they're notthemselves and something's off,
and so they're sort ofexploring the space, if you like
.
For those ladies who then goaway with like a personalized
action plan and feelingdifferently about life in
whatever way it is that we'vechosen to focus on, that's
(30:50):
really lovely and reallyrewarding.
But for them and I think what'ssurprised me is that, although
I say I'm a menopause coach,women will often come in and you
know we've mapped outpreviously what it is they'd
like to look at, and it might beabout sleep, because that's a
big one and then they'll come inand go oh, I'm having real
trouble with this person at work.
(31:10):
Can we just talk about that?
I love the nature of everybodyjust bringing themselves and
their whole selves, whatever itis, and that's what we work on,
and so it surprised me that thescope of it has surprised me in
a really positive way.
Hilmarie Hutchison (31:25):
With so few people actually in this space
talking about it, bringingawareness to it, I can imagine
there must be a huge scope forwomen who want to do something
about it and to talk to somebodywho is going to help them to
get the most positive experienceout of this phase of their
journey.
Sara Beattie (31:42):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think what's been great
about it is there'sopportunities for women who just
want to work on their own andthere's opportunities for women
who are comfortable in a groupsituation and like to draw on
the wisdom of a group.
So I think it's been surprisingthat the women are interested
in doing both and finding theirown way in whatever way that
suits them and working it out ina way that's going to make
(32:06):
lasting change and positivechange for them.
Hilmarie Hutchison (32:09):
What advice would you give to women in their
40s and 50s who feel alone oruncertain as they enter this
phase of life?
Sara Beattie (32:19):
Keep track of what's going on, of what's
normal for you, so that when yougo to a doctor, your healthcare
provider, you can say, hey look, I'm usually X, but now I'm Y,
and can we talk about why thatmight be.
It is important to seek medicaladvice because, just to make
sure so you don't need a bloodtest for menopause, which is one
(32:42):
of those things that somepeople will tell you you need.
But if you think aboutfluctuations can be quite rapid,
relatively rapid, and so if youthink of a hot flush, it comes
and it goes.
And if you are taking a bloodtest and you take it at a time
when your estrogen's high or low, that's what's going to show
and it may not be representativeof your experience.
(33:03):
So blood tests are oftenrecommended but aren't necessary
.
So I would keep track of yoursymptoms and what's going on so
you can talk about those.
The other thing about medicaladvice it's important because
symptoms can overlap with otherthings.
For example, long COVID has alot of symptoms that are like
perimenopause symptoms and therecan be thyroid issues and other
(33:25):
things going on.
So it's always worth doublechecking that that's what's
actually going on.
I'd also strongly say do yourown bit of research.
There's some wonderful booksnow that didn't used to exist
and some great websites thatdidn't used to exist, where you
can find out a lot ofinformation that is accurate and
is updated.
(33:46):
Here in the region, there'ssome great supportive groups
Facebook groups so there's MIMO,which is the Middle Eastern
Menopause Organization, andthere's the GCC Menopause Hub,
and they've got lots of localinformation.
And also, don't wait to reachout and talk.
Your mom will have been throughthis and she's probably a good
place to start.
(34:06):
And if you don't feel you cantalk to mom or a trusted friend,
then reach out to groups orreach out to people like
menopause coaches like me.
We're here to help you.
Don't wait.
Hilmarie Hutchison (34:17):
I think those are excellent tips that
you've shared.
I mean, I know personally, mymom never spoke about menopause.
You know I had to ask her whatage did you go through menopause
?
Because it's not something thatwas ever discussed.
So I think there is such a needfor making women understand
that it's okay to ask questions,it's okay to talk about, and
(34:38):
also your advice to startkeeping a track of what feels
normal so that you can startseeing when things are not
feeling normal.
I was surprised when you saidyou don't necessarily need a
blood test, because that wouldhave been my first thing Get a
blood test so you know what yourbaseline is.
But, as you say, it depends onthe time of the day or the month
or the week.
It might show up differentthings, so it might not
(34:59):
necessarily be the answer, butsome really excellent advice.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
Now we've come to the segmentof our show where I will ask you
some rapid fire questions, ourversion of a game show.
Are you ready?
Okay, can you share a dailyritual that helps you stay
grounded?
Sara Beattie (35:18):
Oh yes, I get out early every morning, try and be
out around sunrise and I walk asclose to trees and nature and
birdsong as possible.
Hilmarie Hutchison (35:30):
You mentioned books earlier, so what
is one book that you can highlyrecommend?
Sara Beattie (35:35):
If it's a fiction book.
I loved a book by Helene Weckercalled the Golem and the Genie.
Okay, sounds good.
It's an expansive tale acrosscultures and time and it was
recommended to me by a friendand it was just a brilliant
piece of writing and I loved it.
Hilmarie Hutchison (35:54):
Super.
One word that describes how youview menopause Renewal.
Not that surprising.
What's next for the age ofrenewal?
Sara Beattie (36:03):
So I've got I'm developing a new one-to-one
program and I've got a groupprogram coming up in September
and I'm really looking forwardto doing round two of the art
project and asking more peoplefor submissions of their
experiences and perceptions ofmenopause.
Hilmarie Hutchison (36:20):
Excellent.
Well, thank you for playingalong.
That was easy enough.
Now I would like to ask you asignature Greenpoll question.
What was your Greenpoll moment?
The action or event that wasthe turning point for you or
your career?
Sara Beattie (36:34):
So mine was.
Actually it was two events onthe same day and I'd gone to
Iceland to present my first lotof research as a poster and I
was so nervous so I'd gone frommy school.
They'd given me time off to go.
Most of the research posterswere very science-y, heavy and
presented in a very typicalscience research poster way.
(36:55):
Mine was like a movie posterpicture of a woman and I did
have some of the details of mystudy, but title Isolation to
Agency.
A man came up, white hair, whitebeard came up and a thick
Austrian accent, and he said tome this is not a research poster
.
And I said well, it is.
Let me tell you about myresearch.
And so I told him about thegroup of women I'd spoken to and
(37:18):
the statistics around menopauseand the impacts on women taking
their lives or divorcing orleaving the workplace.
And he said to me wow, I'm aclinical psychiatrist and most
of my patients are women intheir 50s and I didn't know
anything about this.
That really surprised me andmade me think that, gosh,
(37:39):
there's such a need for thisinformation for everybody.
And later that day I steppedoutside it was the end of the
conference and heading home tothe UK and about to teaching and
sort of put the menopause stuffto bed because I'd really
enjoyed it.
But, you know, still teaching,my son, toby, called me and he
(38:00):
said at this point Toby was 25.
And he said, mum, I've got agreat opportunity for you.
I've said yes for you, I'vesigned you up to do our lunch
and learn on World Menopause Day.
And he was working for asustainability and construction
company, so nothing to do withteaching or anything that I
might vaguely know about.
But how awesome.
(38:20):
A and you know personally thatmy son is championing what I'm
doing.
But also that a man in his 20sunderstood the value of it and
put it forward for his workplacewas just mind-blowing.
And those two things happeningon the same day made me just
think.
You know what I love, what I do.
But there's a need for this andI'd like to do more of this.
Hilmarie Hutchison (38:43):
Wow, that gave me chills.
To have your son, like you say,in his 20s, recognizing what you
are doing is so valuable and soimportant that he would
recommend you and sign you up tohis company to do the lunch and
learn.
Absolutely brilliant and, asyou say, to take somebody who's
in the field, the person thatyou met in Iceland, from that
(39:05):
sort of almost negative commentsto recognizing, wow, there's a
gap that he himself wasn'tfilling.
Excellent.
Thank you so much for sharingthose experiences and I can see
how that would have then helpedyou make that decision to make a
shift in your own life toreally help women who need it
for sure.
Thank you, Sarah.
Thank you so much for sharingyour journey, your wisdom and
(39:29):
your heart with us today.
Your work is certainly helpingto shift the narrative on
menopause from one of silenceand stigma and confusion to one
of creativity, empowerment andrenewal.
I absolutely love thisconversation.
Before we wrap up, where canour listeners learn more about
your coaching, also about theresearch you're doing, and also
(39:52):
to get involved with the Age ofRenewal project?
Sara Beattie (39:55):
Thank you as well.
So much for having me.
It's been a really brilliantconversation.
You can find out more on mywebsite, sarah Beattie Coaching,
also my Instagram or LinkedInprofile.
So my Instagram also SarahBeattieCoaching, and LinkedIn is
SarahBeattie.
Hilmarie Hutchison (40:11):
Excellent.
Thank you very much.
And, to our audience, thank youfor joining us for another
inspiring episode of the MatrixGreenpool podcast.
If today's conversationresonated with you, please
follow, give us a five-starrating and share the podcast,
and join us again next week formore stories of transformation
and purpose.
(40:31):
Until next time, stay curiousand stay inspired.
Sara Beattie (40:39):
If you enjoy our conversations, please like and
subscribe.
See you next Wednesday.
Hello and welcome back to the Matrix Green
Pill Podcast.
I'm your host, hilmarieHutchison, and today's guest
brings an insightful andempowering voice to a topic
that's often overlooked butdeeply impactful.
Joining me is Sarah Beattie, aUAE-based positive psychology
practitioner and menopause coach.
(00:25):
Sarah is the co-author of twopowerful research studies, both
focused on understanding andtransforming the lived
experience of menopause.
With a background in teachingand a master's in applied
positive psychology, sarahblends education, emotional
well-being and creativity ineverything she does.
(00:46):
I am so looking forward to thisconversation, sarah.
Welcome and thank you so muchfor joining me today.
Sara Beattie (00:53):
Yeah, hi.
Thanks for the lovelyintroduction.
It's great to be here.
Hilmarie Hutchison (00:56):
So, sarah let's begin with your story.
Can you share a little bitabout your background and what
led you to the UAE?
Sara Beattie (01:08):
your background and what led you to the UAE?
Yes, so I was born and raisedin England and my mum's English,
my dad's from New Zealand, so Ialways had a mixed culture
background and my mum had been abit of a trailblazer and left
the UK on a boat, travelled sixweeks to New Zealand back in the
50s, and so there was alwaysthis element of other cultures,
other places the world's anamazing place to explore in my
(01:29):
family and in my upbringing, andI ended up being one of those
eternal expats, living in Asiafor 23 years, then went back to
London for a little bit recently, and then my husband had an
opportunity to work on COP28here in Dubai.
So we lived separately for alittle bit, and at that point,
I'll admit, I was gettingslightly itchy feet and he had
(01:52):
been offered a few opportunitiesover here, and so it was time
to take them.
The kids are all grown up doingamazing things and being
amazing humans, and it was timefor a change.
Hilmarie Hutchison (02:02):
Amazing, Wow .
So you had quite a very, quitean interesting background.
I love how your mom was such afantastic role model for you.
You said the way you said shewas a trailblazer as well, so
she was the one that empathizedthe driving force behind moving
all over the place, which wouldhave given you a much wider view
of the world than somebody whohasn't traveled or lived in so
(02:25):
many different places.
You've lived and worked incountries across Asia and now in
the UAE.
How has your expat journeyshaped your perspective on
well-being and midlifechallenges?
Sara Beattie (02:35):
I've had the benefit of seeing and learning
from a lot of different peopleand a lot of different cultures,
and that everybody comes with aslightly different perspective
on how to make somewhere feelhome, particularly if it's not
where you were born and raised,and how you look after yourself,
and also how you look aftereach other in a society where
you may not have access tofamily in the same way.
Hilmarie Hutchison (02:55):
Yes, so you've seen it from different
perspectives.
Sara Beattie (02:58):
Absolutely, and I think it's been very helpful to
kind of have that in mind,particularly coming up to that
midlife change, as you say,because women often don't have
the same support systems inplace that they might have if
they were living at home.
Hilmarie Hutchison (03:12):
Yes, absolutely so.
How did you get into thecoaching space?
Sara Beattie (03:17):
So I was invited a few years ago to join.
So at that time I was teaching.
I had a very long and happycareer teaching and I was doing
lots of work to do with positiveeducation and wellbeing for
children and that was spreadinginto wanting to introduce some
ideas for staff wellbeing.
And another colleague had justdiscovered coaching and said to
(03:41):
me oh, you should do a thingabout coaching.
You do this stuff all the time,you just don't know that you're
doing it.
And I was lucky enough to go ona short course and discovered
coaching and what it is and howit works and just went wow, this
is extraordinary.
This really empowers people tojust work through something that
they're a little bit stuck on,help them get unstuck, move from
(04:02):
A to B without it being thisbig heavy thing that sometimes
you know.
It serves that lovely spot.
That therapy is amazing if youreally need to work on something
deep seated, and counselling isbrilliant if you want to work
on something that's sort of animmediate problem that you've
got to sort out the emotionalproblem Whereas coaching looks
at where you are and where youwant to go and helps you figure
(04:25):
out how to get there Around.
The same time, I knew I wantedto do more with it and I'd just
done a little bit of researchand found a master's course in
applied positive psychology andcoaching psychology, which at
the time, I was living in HongKong and they were not doing
anything online.
So I had to wait and wait andwait for about six years till I
got to London and finally hadthe chance to do it, and it
(04:47):
happened to come 2020.
And I started in January, so acouple of months before lockdown
and it was the mostextraordinary experience to work
on understanding more aboutthat science of flourishing and
living a good life from whateveryour starting point.
Flourishing and living a goodlife from whatever your starting
(05:08):
point, and the importance ofunderstanding and experiencing
the range of emotions that we ashumans do.
And alongside that, elements inthis course were elements of
coaching and again, I justthought that was wonderful.
It coincided with probably themost impactful of my own
menopause symptoms and in 2020,people weren't talking about it.
(05:29):
I could only go to my doctorwho said well, you've managed
this far.
Surely you can sail on throughat this point.
I'm known in my family as Doze,because I can curl up and sleep
anywhere, so for me not to besleeping.
I knew it was quite bad.
That, of course, impacts everyother aspect of your life.
You know I wasn't turning up atwork in the way I should be.
(05:52):
I wasn't just not being myselfand did a little bit of my own
research into what could becausing this and discovered at
that time there was one book,just one, from Louise Newsom.
I ended up buying a copy onlineand I took it down to my
doctors and I said do you knowthis doctor?
She's an NHS doctor.
Do you know about her work?
No, he said.
(06:12):
I said well, I'd like you toread this book and come, and
I'll be back next week.
Hilmarie Hutchison (06:17):
The patient giving the doctor homework to do
.
I love it.
Sara Beattie (06:26):
Well, I was fortunate because I'd gone
expecting to speak to the samedoctor who'd said to me sail on
through.
But actually it was a locum andit was a young man in his 30s.
He was very open and said yes,I'll read this, but in the
meantime, do you want someantidepressants?
Like no, I'm not depressed.
That's not what this is.
Anyway, I went back a weeklater and he said yeah, I've
read it and actually I'veordered a copy for the practice
because I think we all need toread it.
It was quite a moment, I have tosay.
(06:47):
And so, through all of thatcombination of things, I got to
the end of my master's, about todo my dissertation, and it was
going to be something to do withcoaching and education, and my
supervisor said to me hey, we'vebeen talking about a few things
.
She said you know, you can goback to the education stuff
tomorrow.
This is a one chance you've got.
You're on this course and youcould do it on anything, and it
(07:08):
doesn't have to be to do withyour normal everyday job.
It just can be something thatyou really would like to do.
And I said well then, let's dosomething about menopause,
because it's having a massiveimpact and I know that people
aren't talking about it and Iknow that if I'm struggling,
there's going to be a lot ofother people who need some
support in this, and that's howI came to do my dissertation, my
first bit of research.
Hilmarie Hutchison (07:29):
So you loved your teaching, you loved what
you were doing and yet that sortof naturally flowed into
something that you found yourpassion in being interested in
well-being, and it's amazing howsometimes in life we can't
steer, we can't decide ahead oftime where life is going to take
us and in your case, I mean,you've got a.
Yours is a perfect example ofthat, where you started in one
(07:53):
way in one career and that sortof then moved you into something
quite different.
In the end it's still a caringand teaching type of situation,
but in a totally sort ofdifferent field, one from being
an educator and one abouthelping people through a very
difficult time and, as youmentioned, it coincided with
your own journey, so your ownneed was there.
(08:15):
That also then inspired you todo the research down that same
path, where you could see thatpeople were not talking about
something that affects half thepopulation sometime in their
lives.
So it was certainly.
It is an important topic to betalking about, and I love how
you used COVID-2020, that periodwhen people were in lockdown to
go through your master's, if Iunderstood that correctly.
Sara Beattie (08:39):
Yeah, that's right .
So I was doing my master's.
I was still working, so I hadto teach online every day.
My lovely class, but it gave mespace and time at home to look
at that study stuff.
Hilmarie Hutchison (08:53):
So it was very fortuitous timing, I think
you took on such a big thing.
As you said, you were headinginto menopause, so you're not in
your 20s clearly, and yet youdecided to take on a master's at
this age.
So also, I think it's anexcellent example for all of us.
We never pass the time where wecan learn or change direction
in our careers.
Sara Beattie (09:11):
Absolutely.
That's something else I have tocredit my parents for.
So my father unfortunatelypassed away.
He was only 67.
But when we were going throughhis things he was studying for a
maths exam because he justwanted to prove he could do it.
Just that understanding fromboth of them.
You know, you're never too oldto learn anything.
Hilmarie Hutchison (09:27):
Your mom was a fantastic role model here,
and your dad was as well I mean,at 67, still studying, trying
to get some more educationAbsolutely fantastic.
And this is great for allparents, for all of those
listening to this podcast.
As parents, we can set thatexample of wanting to learn and
never thinking we're beyondlearning something new.
(09:48):
Excellent, I love that you'veshared that with us.
Now let's talk about some ofyour research.
Firstly, your research projectfrom isolation to agency has
been widely recognized.
What were some of the keyfindings that stood out to you
from that study?
Sara Beattie (10:05):
So a couple of things.
When you start a bit ofresearch, you have to do a
literature review, which meansyou have to read all the papers
and all the studies and try andfind out what everybody already
knows so that you have astarting point.
There wasn't anything.
There was stuff about hotflushes, there was stuff about
body changes and night sweatsand lots of the very physical
(10:26):
symptoms, but there was nothingabout the more emotional or
psychological impacts thatmenopause can have.
And I noticed that when I hadstarted talking to a couple of
friends, there were a couplesort of in denial Lots of people
.
You know I'm scared of this.
It sounds awful and I wanted tolook into that.
(10:47):
So I ended up because there wasno springboard for me.
I had a wide scope and I endedup looking at self-compassion in
perimenopausal women.
Experiencing brain fog Brain fogwas and still bugs me to this
day was probably my trickiestsymptom.
What was extraordinary was Ihad the gift of working with
(11:08):
women in five different timezones, all sharing their
experience, and so I was a ladyin Italy and Germany and Abu
Dhabi and Hong Kong andAustralia.
Although their individual pathswere a little bit different,
their journey was the same andthey'd felt completely isolated.
They didn't know what was goingon.
They knew they weren'tthemselves, but they didn't know
(11:31):
what to do about it.
So there was a surprisingnumber of these women who had
been to ask for help whether itwas their family, their friends
or a doctor and then had beenalmost brushed away and that led
to very strong feelings ofisolation.
In fact, one of my ladies saidI feel like a nomad on an island
(11:52):
in my own home, which has stuckwith me all this time.
A lady who's got a very closesibling and she said, oh, my
sister said no, I don't want totalk about it.
And a lady, as I said, incomplete denial.
(12:13):
You know, I don't want this tohappen to me.
So we worked with a series ofself-compassion exercises and we
also spent time together justtalking.
Whatever's come up for you thisweek and the power of a group of
wise women in a room cannot beunderestimated the value of
being heard and seen and justsharing in a space where people
are saying, oh my God, I thoughtI had Alzheimer's or oh, is
(12:36):
this what it is?
I didn't realize it was morethan my period stopping and
having a few hot flushes,because that's what I was told
at school.
We weren't educated in this.
A woman put it brilliantly.
She said well, where's thevillage?
You know, when you're inpuberty or you're pregnant,
everybody wants to talk about itand everybody wants to give you
advice.
Whether you want it or not,what happens?
(12:56):
Where's the village?
At this point in life, when youneed just as much support, just
as much understanding fromother people, and it's just not
there.
Hilmarie Hutchison (13:05):
As you also said, there's not much
information, and also theinformation that is out there,
there's a lot of controversyaround the types of the way to
deal with it.
There's a lot of controversyand confusion around the way to
deal with the symptoms ofmenopause, so you almost don't
know who to listen to, who tobelieve, which direction, which
(13:26):
medication.
And what I loved about theresearch you did is you've taken
women from so many differenttime zones, as you mentioned,
different backgrounds, but allon the same journey and all
experiencing a lot of the sameissues.
Some of the same feelings ofisolation, of really not knowing
, also mentioned.
People don't want to talk aboutit.
They almost feel like we'llshove it under or sweep it under
(13:46):
the rug and then nothing willhappen.
It doesn't take away what'shappening to women and to their
bodies during this period.
Sara Beattie (13:54):
Absolutely.
I think you've really capturedthat, and I remember talking to
a friend and she said well, thething is, you don't hear, you
don't go and have a drink orcoffee or go to the pub or
whatever it is, and you don'thear people chatting in that way
, and it's not necessarilysomething our mothers talked
about, and so if our mothersweren't talking about it, then
there's probably, you know,maybe we shouldn't, and for some
(14:16):
people, there's this associatedjust fear or, for some people,
a bit of shame.
My family doesn't talk aboutthis, and that's where it's
important that there are spacesand places and people that women
can talk to, and you're soright about the not knowing who
to listen to.
It's funny.
When I was doing my originalbit of research this was 2021,
(14:38):
my husband said to me at thetime as soon as companies
realize that if they put theword menopause on, there's women
in their 40s, 50s who've gotmoney to spend, you will see it
everywhere.
And he couldn't have been moreright.
Hilmarie Hutchison (14:50):
Yeah, so people are actually or companies
are actually taking advantageof women because there's
actually no, as you mentioned,there's no real research,
there's no real information.
So you can just offer, promise,talk about things and sell
things without that actually hasno benefit to people, just
because not enough informationout there about it.
(15:11):
But as women who have been sosuccessful, they've had a career
, they've done so much in theirlives to get to this point in
their lives, and then there'sbig gap of knowledge where
there's not.
There's all this confusionhappening, all these changes
happening and there's not muchresearch, not much information
to help people.
It's a really sad state ofaffairs.
Sara Beattie (15:30):
Yeah, I agree, and women just need a bit of
clarity, and I think you cansupport that and suggest that
women just tune into themselvesa little bit and maybe keep
track of what's going on andwhat is usual or normal for them
, so that when things startchanging then they're aware it's
like oh, actually I've startedhaving a headache every month,
(15:52):
or that's funny, I'm forgettinga few things and I know I'm busy
and yeah, I've got this thingon at work and yes, I've got my
aging parents to worry about, or, you know, maybe my teens or
whatever it is.
I think that's also one of thetricky things about
perimenopause and menopause isthat it comes at a time when you
are naturally busy in your lifeNot that there's ever a time
(16:12):
that you're not busy, but itseems to be.
It's like a sandwich stage.
There you are in the middle,and above you you've got aging
parents or parents who live in adifferent country that you
might be worrying about.
You may have children, or youmay have kids away at university
or something else to worryabout, and it's like you're the
sandwich filling in the middleand so you tend to stretch
yourself to worry about otherpeople first.
Hilmarie Hutchison (16:34):
Yes, I think that's quite natural for them
to do that, to take on a lot ontheir shoulders and, as you say,
you could put down yourtiredness or your brain fog or
all these other symptoms youcould be putting that down to
I'm just busy, I'm just stressed.
There's just so much going onwithout actually recognizing
that there's actually a changehappening for you.
(16:55):
I love that you were guided todo your research into this
because, as you said at thattime, you could have done it
about anything.
Done it about childhoodeducation, focused on the
teaching aspect, which there's amillion studies about.
So I absolutely love that youused this opportunity to look
into the menopause period of awoman's life.
I'm grateful that you went downthat path rather than the other
(17:17):
.
Let's just focus a little bitand talk about the Age of
Renewal project.
How did this project come aboutand what makes it different
from other menopause researchefforts?
Sara Beattie (17:28):
In my first bit of research, as I mentioned, we've
got lots of women who wereexperiencing isolation and
confusion and then, once they'dhad the opportunity to reflect
with a little bit ofself-compassion and come
together in a group, that wasempowering.
So I knew that there was powerin getting women together and
giving them opportunities toshare.
In my work with individuals andgroups, since I noticed that
(17:53):
women often weren't quite sureof the words to find to express
what's going on, and sometimesthat's because they're a little
bit whether they're feeling alittle bit confused.
They don't actually know what'shappening and so it's hard to
describe, or maybe for somewomen they don't.
It's denial again or a littlebit of shame, and so the ability
(18:17):
to find the words to expresswhat's going on wasn't always
easy.
Some women are quite happy tosit down and really talk about
it, and some women reallystruggle.
Hilmarie Hutchison (18:27):
Could it also be just the lack of
education around the topic ofmenopause?
Sara Beattie (18:32):
Yeah, that's such an important thing to bring up.
I mean most women my age, likeI said before, you know you have
the one lesson In fact I canclearly remember it because it's
the same day we have the condomlesson.
So nobody's going to thinkabout the menopause sentence
because you're teenagers andyou're too busy thinking about
the other end of it.
We were just told that you knowyou get to about 50, your
periods will start and you'llget hot flashes.
(18:53):
Well, you don't know what hotflashes are, but you're
teenagers and awkward, sonobody's going to ask.
Don't get told about any of theother things.
But yes, the education piece isso important.
So when I shifted from teachingto coaching, because I'd loved
teaching, I didn't quite want todrop it entirely, and so I
thought I'd bring with it someof the things I loved.
And some of the things I lovedwere getting kids to think about
(19:15):
things in different andcreative ways.
So, rather than write aboutsomething, we might build a
model, or we might go into thewoods and find a stick and three
leaves and show me a particularconcept using things in nature,
or you know what color isTuesday, and things like that,
and I wanted to bring that funelement into my coaching because
I believe very strongly thatwhen we are able to think
(19:36):
creatively not artistically, butcreatively we can bypass the
need for language and thinkabout things in a different way.
And so in my work if people areinterested, they can work with
me just talking, or they canchoose to bring in Lego or
collage, do some lovely workthrough collage, or we might
(19:58):
just use the objects on yourdesk.
And so I've noticed when we dothings like that, it just gives
people a different way to thinkabout something and they start
thinking about on a deeper level.
It just bypasses that need forvocabulary.
Hilmarie Hutchison (20:11):
I love how you've taken some of your
aspects of teaching, the way weteach children, bringing a fun
element and, as you say, makingit creative so that you don't
need to have, there's no needfor words, but you can still
express the menopause experiencethrough these creative mediums
like art, poetry.
You mentioned collage.
(20:31):
I love that that you've takensuch a different approach to a
topic that's really difficultsometimes to understand,
sometimes difficult to expressthe feelings or what one is
going through.
So I absolutely love that youdescribe menopause as a time of
renewal.
Love that you describemenopause as a time of renewal.
(20:53):
Can you talk about how thatreframe is helping women embrace
this?
Sara Beattie (20:55):
stage of life.
Yes, what a lovely question.
The age of renewal I discoveredwhen I got here to Dubai.
Actually, my understanding isthat it's a rebrand from the age
of despair, which is whatmenopause had previously been
known as in the region.
There was a marketing campaign,I think, with Tenor, who were
(21:16):
trying to suggest that maybethat wasn't the best way to
phrase menopause, and they, Ithink they did a public survey
and it ended up coming out asbeing the age of renewal, and I
love that because that's exactlywhat it is.
As women go through this phase,it's a chance to reflect and to
(21:38):
reconnect with parts ofthemselves that they may have
forgotten but maybedeprioritized.
So I'll often be working withwomen who will say well, you
know, when I was 20, I reallywanted to write a book, or I
used to sing in a choir, but Idon't really have time anymore,
or I used to love painting orwhatever it is.
And it's this lovely time toreset, recalibrate, if you like,
(22:04):
where you are, who you are andwho you want to be, and what is
still important to you and whatyou maybe want to readjust and
let go of or reignite thoselovely things that used to bring
you joy.
Hilmarie Hutchison (22:17):
That's a lovely way to describe it Time
and opportunity.
I love how you said it's anopportunity to recalibrate who
you are.
Sara Beattie (22:25):
No, it's all right , and I was just going to say so
.
Part of when I'm working withwomen, whether it's groups or
individuals, there is this, yeah, this reflection.
So, as well as an understandingof what's going on, there's
this reflection time that's justfor you and that's often quite
hard to find when you're busy,so that in itself is a little
gift, and then we do take timeto think about those
(22:47):
opportunities.
What do you want this next bitof your life to look like?
Hilmarie Hutchison (22:54):
And how are we going to make that happen?
I think just to also thatawareness that this is a change
and there is something that youcan do to make a positive
experience.
I love how you say that, therebranding of the term from an
age of despair, which is such anegative, awful term to have, to
the age of renewal, which givessomething so positive,
(23:14):
something almost to look forwardto.
I love that, that whole changeof mindset about the topic of
menopause.
What are some commonmisconceptions about menopause
that you're trying to changethrough your work?
Sara Beattie (23:29):
That it's all doom and gloom.
So there's been a real increasein some circles of people
talking about menopause.
The fact that you and I aretalking about it now this
wouldn't have happened a fewyears ago right, and I think
that's a really positive thing.
But it's like a pendulum swingand it's very much in the world.
These terrible, uncomfortablethings are going to happen and
(23:51):
that's not necessarily the casefor everybody.
The symptoms that womenexperience are individualized.
I mean, there might be someoverlap.
You're definitely on your ownpath with it and there's ways to
manage that.
So that's one of the things.
And the other thing I thinkthat really needs to happen is
it's back to the point that youwere making earlier is about
(24:13):
education for everybody.
This isn't just a women'sproblem.
So, a, it's not a problem, it'sjust part of growing and B
impact everybody.
Women are going to experienceit.
But men have mothers, sisters,wives, daughters, colleagues.
You know it's a danger ofovercooking it and suggesting
(24:51):
then that women, who are already, you know, a little on the back
foot when it comes to workplaceor maybe, depending on their
sector, they become just alittle bit in the difficult box
because they might have children, they might take time off for
childcare, and now you'retelling me that they might need
time off again when they're intheir 40s and 50s.
(25:12):
So I think we need to be verycautious around the global
understanding of this.
Hilmarie Hutchison (25:18):
It's a very interesting consideration,
something I actually hadn'tthought about, but it does make
sense because you can almostpaint it in talking about it, by
bringing it to the forefront,people might actually become
more aware and only see thenegative.
So in the communication, in theawareness it needs to be more
of, there's a solution and bytalking about it, by dealing
(25:40):
with it, by educating ourselves,it actually is a positive thing
.
It's not a negative thingbecause it can so easily go the
wrong direction.
Everyone's talking about it,but it's only highlighting the
negative, if that makes sense.
Sara Beattie (25:53):
Absolutely.
And that brings it back to thatpiece I've just done, that Age
of Renewal.
So women were invited to sharein whatever way was making sense
.
So some women wrote poetry, wehad nail art, we had collage,
some amazing ceramics and someextraordinary painted portraits,
and a lot of poetry, and somewomen spoke, or just, you know,
(26:15):
brain dumped, and what camethrough very strongly was that,
yes, at times this had beentricky, partly because I didn't
know what was going on and Ihadn't been educated about this,
and partly because the supportsystems weren't quite right.
But this change through thisjourney to one of hope and what
(26:37):
was renewal so I'll use thatword again was overwhelmingly
shone through.
So, yes, there's what comesthrough as you learn more and
you understand more about what'sgoing on.
Is that message that this is?
You're coming into your age ofwisdom and sovereignty and
owning yourself and who you arein a way that you haven't done
(26:58):
before.
Hilmarie Hutchison (26:59):
I love that.
Also, as we mentioned earlier,this period of the journey is
not negative.
Don't see it as negative.
See it as a positive, as youmentioned about the reframing
around the terminology.
See it as negative.
See it as a positive, as youmentioned about the reframing
around the terminology.
See it as an opportunity torelook at things and make, maybe
, different choices.
Even now it's not too late.
But I think that positiveconversation around this period
(27:20):
of a woman's life is soimportant and so impactful
because in the past no one spokeabout it and so, as you
mentioned, people feel a woman,felt lonely, felt cut off, felt
isolated, and just making itpossible for women to talk and
be recognized in this space willmake all the difference to
their journey.
Yeah, I totally agree.
(27:41):
You recently presented at theInternational Positive
Psychology Association WorldCongress in Australia.
Can you tell us a little?
Sara Beattie (27:49):
bit about that.
I did so.
I took that piece, the Age ofRenewal, that I was just
mentioning, that arts-basedpiece.
We had 1,000 delegates from 60countries and it's researchers
sharing what they're discoveringabout well-being, whether
that's on an individual group,cultural or societal level, and
there were some extraordinarythings being talked about.
(28:11):
And I presented the Age ofRenewal with a colleague, janie
Janie Stricker, and she and Ihad received these wonderful
images of artwork or poetry orwords from people, and because
most or a majority ofsubmissions had been in poetry,
I decided to actually present itas a poem.
(28:33):
We did our analysis on the workwe'd received and then took
different elements and wove ittogether as a poem.
It was well received, in fact.
A lady, she stood up at the endand she said I've never wanted
to give a standing ovation at aconference before.
Hilmarie Hutchison (28:47):
Wow, what an amazing experience.
Sara Beattie (28:50):
It was lovely, but there was an interesting, it
was a very wonderful opportunityto share work about menopause
and I have to say I was quitedisappointed, I guess is the
word Well, surprised, butdisappointed that you know there
were dozens of speakers andseveral student posters, you
(29:10):
know current research and yet wewere the only people talking
about menopause and that reallyquite surprised me, actually,
just at this point where theconversation has really started
and there's lots of peopletalking about it, I guess it's
lots of people are talking aboutit, if you know they're talking
about it.
Hilmarie Hutchison (29:27):
Yeah, but it also shows you that there's
lots of people talking about it.
I guess it's lots of people aretalking about it, if you know
they're talking about it.
Yeah, but it also shows youthat there's definitely still a
need for people like you andothers to make more noise, to
bring more awareness, because somuch of the focus is oftentimes
I mean, I wasn't at thisCongress but so much of the
focus is often on young childrenor adolescents and their
development and there's not thatmuch talk about women in the
(29:49):
menopause phase of their lives.
It's amazing that you were ableto make a presentation about
your findings and I love how yousaid that you presented it in
the form of a poem, which isabsolutely fantastic.
Let's change direction a littlebit.
What has surprised you the mostabout working with women on
their midlife?
Sara Beattie (30:07):
journey, the positive change that comes.
So I have some clients will comeand they may have been through
coaching before, and so theyunderstand the process and what
might happen and they know thatthere's an expectation on them.
You know, come with awillingness to change and
they're brilliant because theyjump straight in and tell you
all the things and then figureout their plan.
(30:28):
And then there's the ladies whocome and who aren't quite sure.
They just know that they're notthemselves and something's off,
and so they're sort ofexploring the space, if you like
.
For those ladies who then goaway with like a personalized
action plan and feelingdifferently about life in
whatever way it is that we'vechosen to focus on, that's
(30:50):
really lovely and reallyrewarding.
But for them and I think what'ssurprised me is that, although
I say I'm a menopause coach,women will often come in and you
know we've mapped outpreviously what it is they'd
like to look at, and it might beabout sleep, because that's a
big one and then they'll come inand go oh, I'm having real
trouble with this person at work.
(31:10):
Can we just talk about that?
I love the nature of everybodyjust bringing themselves and
their whole selves, whatever itis, and that's what we work on,
and so it surprised me that thescope of it has surprised me in
a really positive way.
Hilmarie Hutchison (31:25):
With so few people actually in this space
talking about it, bringingawareness to it, I can imagine
there must be a huge scope forwomen who want to do something
about it and to talk to somebodywho is going to help them to
get the most positive experienceout of this phase of their
journey.
Sara Beattie (31:42):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think what's been great
about it is there'sopportunities for women who just
want to work on their own andthere's opportunities for women
who are comfortable in a groupsituation and like to draw on
the wisdom of a group.
So I think it's been surprisingthat the women are interested
in doing both and finding theirown way in whatever way that
suits them and working it out ina way that's going to make
(32:06):
lasting change and positivechange for them.
Hilmarie Hutchison (32:09):
What advice would you give to women in their
40s and 50s who feel alone oruncertain as they enter this
phase of life?
Sara Beattie (32:19):
Keep track of what's going on, of what's
normal for you, so that when yougo to a doctor, your healthcare
provider, you can say, hey look, I'm usually X, but now I'm Y,
and can we talk about why thatmight be.
It is important to seek medicaladvice because, just to make
sure so you don't need a bloodtest for menopause, which is one
(32:42):
of those things that somepeople will tell you you need.
But if you think aboutfluctuations can be quite rapid,
relatively rapid, and so if youthink of a hot flush, it comes
and it goes.
And if you are taking a bloodtest and you take it at a time
when your estrogen's high or low, that's what's going to show
and it may not be representativeof your experience.
(33:03):
So blood tests are oftenrecommended but aren't necessary
.
So I would keep track of yoursymptoms and what's going on so
you can talk about those.
The other thing about medicaladvice it's important because
symptoms can overlap with otherthings.
For example, long COVID has alot of symptoms that are like
perimenopause symptoms and therecan be thyroid issues and other
(33:25):
things going on.
So it's always worth doublechecking that that's what's
actually going on.
I'd also strongly say do yourown bit of research.
There's some wonderful booksnow that didn't used to exist
and some great websites thatdidn't used to exist, where you
can find out a lot ofinformation that is accurate and
is updated.
(33:46):
Here in the region, there'ssome great supportive groups
Facebook groups so there's MIMO,which is the Middle Eastern
Menopause Organization, andthere's the GCC Menopause Hub,
and they've got lots of localinformation.
And also, don't wait to reachout and talk.
Your mom will have been throughthis and she's probably a good
place to start.
(34:06):
And if you don't feel you cantalk to mom or a trusted friend,
then reach out to groups orreach out to people like
menopause coaches like me.
We're here to help you.
Don't wait.
Hilmarie Hutchison (34:17):
I think those are excellent tips that
you've shared.
I mean, I know personally, mymom never spoke about menopause.
You know I had to ask her whatage did you go through menopause
?
Because it's not something thatwas ever discussed.
So I think there is such a needfor making women understand
that it's okay to ask questions,it's okay to talk about, and
(34:38):
also your advice to startkeeping a track of what feels
normal so that you can startseeing when things are not
feeling normal.
I was surprised when you saidyou don't necessarily need a
blood test, because that wouldhave been my first thing Get a
blood test so you know what yourbaseline is.
But, as you say, it depends onthe time of the day or the month
or the week.
It might show up differentthings, so it might not
(34:59):
necessarily be the answer, butsome really excellent advice.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
Now we've come to the segmentof our show where I will ask you
some rapid fire questions, ourversion of a game show.
Are you ready?
Okay, can you share a dailyritual that helps you stay
grounded?
Sara Beattie (35:18):
Oh yes, I get out early every morning, try and be
out around sunrise and I walk asclose to trees and nature and
birdsong as possible.
Hilmarie Hutchison (35:30):
You mentioned books earlier, so what
is one book that you can highlyrecommend?
Sara Beattie (35:35):
If it's a fiction book.
I loved a book by Helene Weckercalled the Golem and the Genie.
Okay, sounds good.
It's an expansive tale acrosscultures and time and it was
recommended to me by a friendand it was just a brilliant
piece of writing and I loved it.
Hilmarie Hutchison (35:54):
Super.
One word that describes how youview menopause Renewal.
Not that surprising.
What's next for the age ofrenewal?
Sara Beattie (36:03):
So I've got I'm developing a new one-to-one
program and I've got a groupprogram coming up in September
and I'm really looking forwardto doing round two of the art
project and asking more peoplefor submissions of their
experiences and perceptions ofmenopause.
Hilmarie Hutchison (36:20):
Excellent.
Well, thank you for playingalong.
That was easy enough.
Now I would like to ask you asignature Greenpoll question.
What was your Greenpoll moment?
The action or event that wasthe turning point for you or
your career?
Sara Beattie (36:34):
So mine was.
Actually it was two events onthe same day and I'd gone to
Iceland to present my first lotof research as a poster and I
was so nervous so I'd gone frommy school.
They'd given me time off to go.
Most of the research posterswere very science-y, heavy and
presented in a very typicalscience research poster way.
(36:55):
Mine was like a movie posterpicture of a woman and I did
have some of the details of mystudy, but title Isolation to
Agency.
A man came up, white hair, whitebeard came up and a thick
Austrian accent, and he said tome this is not a research poster
.
And I said well, it is.
Let me tell you about myresearch.
And so I told him about thegroup of women I'd spoken to and
(37:18):
the statistics around menopauseand the impacts on women taking
their lives or divorcing orleaving the workplace.
And he said to me wow, I'm aclinical psychiatrist and most
of my patients are women intheir 50s and I didn't know
anything about this.
That really surprised me andmade me think that, gosh,
(37:39):
there's such a need for thisinformation for everybody.
And later that day I steppedoutside it was the end of the
conference and heading home tothe UK and about to teaching and
sort of put the menopause stuffto bed because I'd really
enjoyed it.
But, you know, still teaching,my son, toby, called me and he
(38:00):
said at this point Toby was 25.
And he said, mum, I've got agreat opportunity for you.
I've said yes for you, I'vesigned you up to do our lunch
and learn on World Menopause Day.
And he was working for asustainability and construction
company, so nothing to do withteaching or anything that I
might vaguely know about.
But how awesome.
(38:20):
A and you know personally thatmy son is championing what I'm
doing.
But also that a man in his 20sunderstood the value of it and
put it forward for his workplacewas just mind-blowing.
And those two things happeningon the same day made me just
think.
You know what I love, what I do.
But there's a need for this andI'd like to do more of this.
Hilmarie Hutchison (38:43):
Wow, that gave me chills.
To have your son, like you say,in his 20s, recognizing what you
are doing is so valuable and soimportant that he would
recommend you and sign you up tohis company to do the lunch and
learn.
Absolutely brilliant and, asyou say, to take somebody who's
in the field, the person thatyou met in Iceland, from that
(39:05):
sort of almost negative commentsto recognizing, wow, there's a
gap that he himself wasn'tfilling.
Excellent.
Thank you so much for sharingthose experiences and I can see
how that would have then helpedyou make that decision to make a
shift in your own life toreally help women who need it
for sure.
Thank you, Sarah.
Thank you so much for sharingyour journey, your wisdom and
(39:29):
your heart with us today.
Your work is certainly helpingto shift the narrative on
menopause from one of silenceand stigma and confusion to one
of creativity, empowerment andrenewal.
I absolutely love thisconversation.
Before we wrap up, where canour listeners learn more about
your coaching, also about theresearch you're doing, and also
(39:52):
to get involved with the Age ofRenewal project?
Sara Beattie (39:55):
Thank you as well.
So much for having me.
It's been a really brilliantconversation.
You can find out more on mywebsite, sarah Beattie Coaching,
also my Instagram or LinkedInprofile.
So my Instagram also SarahBeattieCoaching, and LinkedIn is
SarahBeattie.
Hilmarie Hutchison (40:11):
Excellent.
Thank you very much.
And, to our audience, thank youfor joining us for another
inspiring episode of the MatrixGreenpool podcast.
If today's conversationresonated with you, please
follow, give us a five-starrating and share the podcast,
and join us again next week formore stories of transformation
and purpose.
(40:31):
Until next time, stay curiousand stay inspired.
Sara Beattie (40:39):
If you enjoy our conversations, please like and
subscribe.
See you next Wednesday.
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