October 15, 2024 • 26 mins
Discover the transformative world of executive coaching through the eyes of Steve Graves, a seasoned mentor with over three decades of experience. Join us as Steve reveals the secrets behind his dynamic coaching approach that favors impactful, short-term partnerships over long-term commitments. From guiding CEOs of global corporations to advising small family businesses, Steve has honed a method that adapts to the unique environment of each leader. He also shares personal anecdotes, including his love for fly fishing and how he strategically aligned his career with his personal strengths by age 35. Prepare yourself for an insightful journey into the nuanced art of coaching with a man who has dedicated his life to helping leaders navigate pivotal stages in their careers.
Get ready to learn how the right industry fit can make all the difference in CEO coaching. Steve sheds light on the importance of refining coaching strategies through feedback and tailoring them to meet individual needs. Hear a compelling story of adapting his style for a client who thrived outside the traditional office setting, showcasing the necessity of aligning methods with the distinct characteristics of those he works with. With a passion for writing and a knack for using personal experiences as a testing ground for innovative ideas, Steve offers a fresh perspective on shaping polished coaching concepts. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the evolving world of executive coaching and the critical role of adaptability in guiding leaders to success.
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Episode Transcript
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Dr. Matt Waller (00:10):
Welcome to the Matt Waller podcast, where we
look at success at theintersection of technology,
logistics, supply chain, retailand CPG, also known as the
retail value chain.
I want to clarify that thispodcast is distinct from my
responsibilities as a professorin the Sam M Walton College of
Business.
Nonetheless, it aligns with myaspiration to provide practical
(00:31):
insights to professionals andbusiness by showcasing companies
and people that can enhanceyour ability to manage, lead and
strategize and marketeffectively in the retail value
chain.
And now, without further ado,let's get into the exciting
episode.
I have with me today SteveGraves, who is an extremely
successful executive coach, andI've known him for almost 30
(00:54):
years and I can tell you heknows so much about leadership,
management, personal management,personal improvement.
He's also a man of integrity.
As I said, I've worked with himfor over 30 years and he's just
a wonderful person, Steve,thanks for joining us today,
(01:15):
Matt thanks for having me.
Steve Graves (01:17):
It's really, really fun to be with you after
all these years.
Yes, we have known each other along time.
Dr. Matt Waller (01:22):
We have, indeed , and we have lots of friends in
common.
Yes, we do Absolutely, and I'vereally enjoyed watching your
career as you've succeeded, andI've heard it said that you know
you can measure a leader not bythe number of followers, but
rather by the number of leadersthey create, and I know you've
done that professionally andpersonally.
(01:45):
Your children have becomeleaders.
Steve Graves (01:53):
Well, thanks.
Dr. Matt Waller (01:53):
Thanks.
It's been a lot of fun.
I've had a really fun journey.
So, Steve, would you mindgiving us a few minutes just
about yourself and yourbackground?
Steve Graves (02:08):
Yeah, I'd love to Love to man.
Yeah, so I'm 68.
My, my wife karen and I havelived in northwest arkansas
since pretty much our entiremarriage, um, and you recently
celebrated your 40th wecelebrated our 40th anniversary,
uh, this, this.
Actually, this summer it had ahad a fun trip to europe.
Um, I've got three kids, adultchildren and um, we have five
grandchildren, with one on theway.
Congratulations, absolutely.
But only one is out of diapers.
(02:29):
So we've got babies everywhere.
We've got babies everywhere,and so you know I have a
wonderful family, lived here along time.
As a hobby, I primarily love tofish.
I do a lot of fly fishing and Itry to fly fish my way kind of
around the world Anywhere I cango.
That's a ton of fun.
I go In the work world.
(02:50):
My work world is kind of brokeninto three components right now
, which actually stretches backall the way back to where you
and I first met each other.
The core piece of my work iscoaching CEOs, business owners
and entrepreneurs, and I've beendoing that for three or four
decades.
Usually in my portfolio I've gotone or two huge global, perhaps
(03:14):
public company CEOs, maybe aFortune 1000, 500, 100, down
whatever, and then usually Ihave two or three, maybe four
family-held for sure, private,perhaps family-held business CEO
, business owner.
(03:48):
They could range as small as $4or $5 million in top-line
revenue up to I've got a clientright now that's a founder of a
$14 billion company and owns it,and so the size is not the deal
, it's more about the age, stageand what the company is doing.
And then I usually have two orthree gunslinging entrepreneurs
trying to scale, exit, merge orrealize their dream or something
like that.
And so I have this coachingpractice that I've done for
three or four decades.
And then in the last five to 10years I've moved into more of
an ownership role where I own abunch of companies or partially
(04:11):
own a bunch of companies, andI'm the chairman of the board of
a holding company that has abunch of these CPG companies
embedded in it, and so that'sbeen a lot of fun the last few
years.
And then I do a little writingon the side.
I've kind of got a littleweekly article You've been
writing for as long as I'veknown.
I've written a whole bunch ofbooks that my wife and my mom
(04:34):
and me read.
I know that's not true becauseI've read some of them.
Well, there's four people.
So that's kind of my world,matt, I love.
You know, if you cut me down themiddle, I'm a guy who, early on
, I wanted to be in my careerzone by the time I was 35.
I wanted to be kind of in theslot that I felt like was the
(04:55):
best version of myself, with mywiring, who I was, my ambitions,
who God made me to be and allof that stuff.
And I beat it by a couple ofmonths but I was kind of a late
bloomer because I'm a generalistand I wanted to.
I had a bunch of interest, youknow, but at my core, you know,
(05:16):
I love journeying alongside aCEO, a business owner or an
entrepreneur and just journeyingwith them for a season.
You know, I'm not the guy thatembeds myself in someone's P&L
and I'm still there 20 yearslater.
There's just nothing wrong withthat.
That's just not my model.
And so it's been a lot of fun,a lot of.
(05:36):
I've been incredibly blessed.
I could have never envisionedthat I would have been able to
have the life that I've beenable to enjoy when I was a kid,
looking forward, so reallyreally fortunate.
Dr. Matt Waller (05:47):
Well, you've never told me who you coach, but
a couple of people you'vecoached have told me.
You coached them, and I won'treveal their names, of course,
but one in particular is veryamazing.
The audience would be shocked,but you clearly have a gift and
(06:09):
ability you've developed in thisway.
There's no question about it.
Well, thanks, matt.
How has executive coachingevolved over the past decade?
Steve Graves (06:19):
Well, you know, interesting, great question when
I first started coaching youknow the distinction I had an
original business partner who'sbeen still to this day the best
business partner I've ever had,a guy named Tom Addington.
And when Tom and I firststarted our businesses together,
we kind of had a dualconsulting coaching kind of a
model and I've always used thekind of the you know just kind
(06:41):
of the graphic image that whenyou're consulting you're working
with a company and adding valueto a few people along the way.
When you're coaching, you'reworking with a person and adding
value to the company along theway.
And so it's the distinction ofthe customer is the customer of
the company or is the customerof the person.
You know the individual.
And when we first, when I firststarted coaching, tom bent
(07:04):
toward consulting.
I bent toward coaching, whichearly on gave us a really fun,
fun way to relate to each otherin our work.
But when I first startedcoaching people and leaders, I
mean there were some people outthere doing it, but it wasn't at
all the industry that it istoday.
I mean it's a massive, bigindustry today and I remember
(07:27):
probably 10 years ago we were inthe middle of scaling some
coaching stuff.
And so we had a couple of bootcamps and we brought in 30 or 40
different people who wanted tobe coaches, and they were
psychiatrists, psychologists,academics, pastors, sociologists
, and I mean they were from kindof every industry.
(07:47):
And then of course there werepeople who had been there and
done it and they wanted to giveback.
And so in today's world, youknow, you kind of you can almost
migrate into coaching.
If in fact you have anyaptitude or wiring and or if
you've had any success story atall under your belt, you can
kind of show up and providecoaching.
Now the big question becomes isyou know what it is that you're
(08:10):
really offering?
You know, are you, are youoffering primarily only soft
side skill coaching?
Are you offering primarily aspecialty, hard side skill, like
I'm a P&L person or I'm amerger person or I'm a supply
chain expert or something?
So you are you a slice of adeal?
And then it becomes kind of,what's your model of coaching?
(08:30):
Is it a group model?
Is it a peer-based?
You know, I mean, like, what isyour model?
But in today's one thing that'schanged.
So to be long-winded in myanswer, which I usually, will be
sorry, but the industry's blownup.
There's so many entry pointsfor people to get into coaching.
There's so many entry pointsfor people to get into coaching
(08:52):
and because people can succeedin business so quickly in
today's world, you have peoplewho are able to like they've
been and done somethingincredible by the time they're
30 or 35.
And so they come out on thebackside of that saying, well, I
want to do more than just do itagain.
I want to give back and I wantto coach.
And so the coaching industry isactually really really big and
(09:13):
thick and large and, you know,noisy, but, um, as a rule, I
think it's probably pretty goodfor the environment.
Dr. Matt Waller (09:22):
Well, you've, you've coached some, um, uh,
you've coached a lot of peopleover the past three, four
decades, um, but I'm curious,especially recently, say in the
past, I don't know five yearswhat are some of the common
challenges you're seeing thatexecutives are facing?
Steve Graves (09:42):
Yeah, you know, matt, that's a really, again, a
really great question.
You know, for me it probably is.
It's less about the universalapplication of all executives
and leaders.
I would probably cluster it orgroup it under what stage their
business or their enterprises inand in the world that I live in
(10:05):
and these are my terms, so Iwould not push those on anybody
else but I group every businessinto a zero to one phase, a one
to five phase or a five to 500phase.
Those are my threeclassifications of business.
Stage it has nothing to do withthe age and has nothing to do
with the size.
It has to do with the stage andthe complexity, the market,
(10:28):
just the stage and more of thestage and cycle time that that
business is in.
So for me it's more like whatleaders in the zero to one phase
are all facing together.
And then what are businessleaders in the one to five phase
and then the five to 500?
Because you know, if you'releading a five to 500 stage
(10:52):
business, you know you're moreof a mature business.
You are probably trying tofigure out how to balance
organic growth and acquisitionalgrowth.
You're managing a sophisticatedmarket.
You know you're not just tryingto push yourself in and be
known.
I mean you're managing asophisticated business
enterprise, perhaps public,perhaps private, but you might
(11:15):
have an investor pool that'swanting to buy you out or
whatever.
That's just a different wholething.
If you're in the early stagesof the businesses, you're just
trying to survive and getthrough that early stage where
you actually have proven up thatyou can make it in today's
world.
If I had to say you know, thereis a trend that I've noticed,
(11:40):
because in today's world there'sso much accessibility to
information, information andopportunity, the window for both
of those is so much larger andbigger than it was, you know,
when I was younger, like 20years ago.
People can just learn stuff somuch faster and so much quicker
(12:02):
and then you can actually trythings and the opportunities are
massive.
Because of that people cansucceed a lot faster.
So the need for people tocompress their learning curve is
a lot.
The pressure is a lot higher.
I can't just kind of slowlywork my way through a learning
(12:23):
curve in today's world.
I can, but I will probablysuffer because of it.
So there's a real need forleaders to kind of compress
their learning, be a little bitmore intentional and aggressive
in figuring out what it is.
They don't know what it is.
They need to know where theyneed to kind of shore up some of
their weaknesses or theiropportunities.
(12:44):
So that would be one thing thatI would say that has changed a
little bit.
Dr. Matt Waller (12:48):
So I want to get back to your writing.
I like to write a lot.
Someone I know, charles Morgan,who is the founder of Axiom.
He loves to write and writinghas been a key part of his
(13:10):
strategy in his life, you know,and he writes lengthy.
He's written a book, actually,but he also writes to the
company a lot, and you know Ienjoy writing as well and have
written a lot Different type ofwriting.
But I sometimes write thingsthat I never do anything with,
(13:34):
because I remember when I wasyoung, someone told me well,
there was a famous quote and I'mforgetting who said it that
said, I don't know what I thinktill I write it.
But writing, sometimes whenyou're just thinking, or, let's
say, you're resting, you're justthinking through things, your
ideas are not very wellsolidified and when you write it
(13:57):
, it forces you to put thelogical structure to it which I
mean in reading your writing.
I know you use strong logicalstructure, but do you ever use
that as a coaching tool?
I'm just curious.
Steve Graves (14:13):
Yeah, you know I do, Matt.
It's really funny.
For me writing is more of astreet-back exercise.
I love to sit down in front ofmy computer and populate a new
idea, you know, socialize itwithin myself and then maybe
talk to a couple people and thenjust try to bring words and
precision of thought, logicalconstruct, as you mentioned,
(14:36):
stuff like that.
But a lot of times what I'll dois I'll take a half-baked idea
and because literally every dayI'm in a laboratory, like every
day I'm with a leader, generallyspeaking every day, unless I'm
fishing or something else, youknow, if I'm working a leader,
generally speaking every day,unless I'm fishing or something
else, if I'm working that day,I've got like the perfect
laboratory to socialize ahalf-baked idea or to say, hey,
(14:59):
I've been thinking a little bitabout this, what do you think
about that, or how might that bebetter applied, or how might
you say that differently orwhatever.
And so I get the chance of youknow, at least two or three
times a week, of being able tokind of take an idea, push it in
and through a real worldsetting and then come back
(15:21):
around, and so what it does isit gives me we're talking about
feedback loops before we everstarted.
It gives me a lot tighterfeedback loop to be able to
crystallize a thought orsomething like that.
So I love to write.
You know I've kind of like you.
I've been a writer for a longtime.
I'm actually not a really greatwriter, I'm a guy that likes to
(15:45):
write and because I work formyself, I get a chance.
I can kind of do it if I wantto, and so I work for myself.
I get a chance, I can kind ofdo it if I want to, and so I do
it.
But I'm not as disciplined as aperson who that's what they do
every day.
You know that they do that.
I'm still writing the cracks.
I still kind of write when Ican find a couple hours.
You know I'm not the guy thatgets up every morning.
Most disciplined writers whohave that as their career, most
(16:08):
of them, will get up generallyearly.
They'll write four hours, maybefour and a half hours, maybe
five, and then that's it.
Then they'll do it the nextmorning and they're just
cranking out stuff like that.
I wish I had that environment.
I don't, but I do like to write.
To your point.
(16:30):
It forces me to bring languageand nomenclature around an idea
and I'm a framework guy.
I'm a framework models toolsguy, so it makes me do that.
Dr. Matt Waller (16:40):
Well, you know, I'm curious about a couple of
other things.
When you're coaching someone,does it differ how you coach
them based on the industrythey're in, or does that?
Steve Graves (16:57):
not matter.
Oh yeah, actually, a lot ofthings are differing, matt.
The industry.
They're in the stage that theirbusiness is in what it is
actually.
You know, I was on a panelyears ago out in Silicon Valley
and I remember I was on a panelwith a really great group of
people and the question was iswhat makes the perfect CEO?
And everybody went throughtheir list of 10, list of 5,
(17:19):
list of 6, list of whatever, andthey got to me I was the very
last person.
I said well, I might be a tadcontrarian on this one, because
I still have my list.
I mean, I wrote a book calledthe Five Tasks, which is what I
think is a really good framework.
But my answer that day was forme, the best CEO is the CEO that
(17:40):
has the right fit and the rightexperience attached to the
company at the right time.
In other words, you take aperson, it's contingent upon all
of that.
It is Matt, you got it.
And so for me, you know, whenI'm coaching somebody, I've kind
of got to contextualize whothey are, what industry they're
(18:01):
in, what stage their business isin, which is requiring them to
be a different kind of person.
You know, I've got a clientright now that has taken one
company public along with a PEfirm and a lot of money, took it
back private and now he's goingto go public again.
Well, that's a different kindof wiring, that's a whole
(18:22):
different kind of person, and soI'll contextualize into that.
But then the biggest thing thatI usually have to do, which
takes me a minute or two, is Ihave to contextualize my toolbox
for that person.
You know, if that person is aheavy duty notes and you know if
(18:43):
they, if they, lean into lotsof volume of stuff, then I've
got to make sure that I createthe model that gives them a lot
of stuff.
If they're not, I remember onetime I had a client out west in
Park City, salt Lake City area.
This particular person, I flewout for my very first meeting
and they picked me up.
He picked me up and I said soyou know, were we going to your
(19:08):
office?
And he said, well, I guess Ireally hate my office.
And I said, well, okay, so wegoing to your office.
And he said, well, I guess Ireally hate my office.
And I said, well, okay, so wewent to his office.
Anyway, we went to hisconference room.
Dude didn't have a piece ofpaper, no pen, no computer,
didn't know where his phone was,and he never went into the
conference room.
He was an outdoors guy.
Now, he was, don't mistake.
He was uber successful, hadbuilt and sold a number of
(19:31):
companies to Boston Scientific.
I mean, he was a model of whata lot of people would say could
I just be that person.
But here's the thing he hatedto be inside, hated it.
So I had to kind of reboot mywhole system.
Did you go?
Dr. Matt Waller (19:46):
fly fishing.
Steve Graves (19:48):
We did, man, we did, we did.
He would pick me up and wewould take walks.
We would go for long walks inthe, in the parks near him, we
would go fly fishing.
We, we did all kind of thingsand I had to squeeze in my
coaching agenda into the thingswe were doing, but that was the
only way we were going to everreally have an audience.
So I know that's an extremeanswer, but yes, there's a
(20:11):
contextualization.
If you know, the higher you getin an organization, the more
contextualized the help has tobe.
You know, if you're the CEO oryou're an executive, you know an
off the shelf.
Hey, here's my book, read itand just do exactly what the
book says.
That might help them.
But the chances are they'vealready been through that stage.
(20:33):
You know.
That's the reason why a lot ofthe books the more successful
books that have been writtenabout leadership and management.
They're great for the middle ofa company, but when you begin
to migrate up, you know theremight only be one or two things
that a very successful CEOreally needs help with.
(20:54):
I mean the rest of the stuffthey got, man, they've done it.
Dr. Matt Waller (20:59):
I believe what you're saying.
I mean this contingencyapproach.
I mean sometimes you see peopleenter an organization and you
can tell they were selectedbased on their resume and you're
like they were the right personin the right place at the right
time in the last company.
Yes, yes, right, but this isnot the right time for them.
Steve Graves (21:20):
Yes, yes, that's what I call historical
competence.
See, we know.
So I get your resume.
I'm trying to hire a new EVP,or VP of sales or whatever it is
you know, or CFO, whatever, andjust name it Potentially the
CEO.
Okay, and we know you did itthere.
But what we don't know is howmuch of your success there was
(21:42):
because of the timing the timingof the market, the stage that
was around you Like you mighthave had the culture, the
culture you got it.
The culture, all those things Iremember when back in, I don't
know, around 2000,.
Dr. Matt Waller (21:54):
It seems like Kmart was desperate and they
hired a bunch of people fromWalmart, particularly in
replenishment probably otherareas too.
They implemented the same kindof replenishment software that
Walmart was using.
They did all these things.
They hired, I mean, people leftNorthwest Arkansas to go there.
(22:15):
It didn't work it didn't work.
Steve Graves (22:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's yeah.
So that's one of the biggestrisk that happens, and it
doesn't fail every time, but thenumber of people that did it
there but they can't do it hereor they're not able to do it
here, it's a really pretty highnumber.
Dr. Matt Waller (22:38):
And I think there's been so many times I've
seen organizations.
They've got some people insidethat could do the job.
Yeah, yeah, they know theculture, they know the strengths
.
Yeah, they know the culture,they know the strengths.
Yep, and they're passed overfor someone from a shiny new
object.
You got it, yep, yep.
(22:58):
And I think it fails more oftenthan it succeeds.
Steve Graves (23:04):
I haven't seen the statistics yeah, I don't have
the data either, but I do havesome anecdotal experience, like
you, and I mean it's shockinghow many times we think we have
hired some super stud.
You know it's.
You know, one of my, one of myquotes that I've really have
believed and have bought into abunch of the last four or five
(23:24):
years is a statement that saysyou know, you know an extremely
powerful gift, a single gift cantake you places that the
absence of other gifts cannothold you.
And so you know, what you cando is sometimes a superpower can
move me into a position, atitle, but the absence of me
(23:48):
really having built out myfull-orbed constitutional
formation of who I am, it can'thold me there.
And so a lot of times we havepeople who show up and they'll
take a step up to the next rungand they'll say, oh, I can
easily do that.
Well, they don't really havethe full-orbed comprehensive
(24:08):
formation to be perhaps a CEO.
But I think you're exactlyright.
I'd forgotten about the target,I mean the Kmart story, but
that's exactly what happened.
Dr. Matt Waller (24:20):
That's precisely what happened, I mean
you know and so many times yousee companies trying to compete
in ways they're not going to win.
Yeah, but because theircompetitors doing it, they try
to do it.
And I think you know and one ofthe ways they do that is they
hire the shiny new object fromoutside of the organization.
(24:41):
Who knows how to compete thatway and the business processes
and culture are not set up forit.
Steve Graves (24:48):
Totally agree, totally agree.
It's a common mistake.
And here's the deal Even afterwe say it, we still keep doing
it.
Totally agree, totally agree.
It's a common mistake.
And here's the deal Even afterwe say it, we still keep doing
it.
I mean, it's one of thosethings because we just we feel
like we have to do it, and if wedon't hire that person,
somebody else is going to hirethem and we don't.
You know, we just we don'talways make wise decisions as
(25:09):
owners and as stewards of, youknow, stewards of business
enterprise.
Dr. Matt Waller (25:13):
Well, Steve, thank you for doing part one of
this.
I believe our listeners andaudience are going to love the
topics we've talked about.
There's probably either goingto be one or two more sessions
of this.
Thank you for your willingnessto do it.
I mean, I don't care whatindustry you're in.
The kind of things we'retalking about are so relevant to
(25:34):
people, right.
So thank you for taking time tovisit with me.
I really appreciate itAbsolutely, Matt.
Steve Graves (25:40):
Thanks for having me on.
I look forward to talking again.
Dr. Matt Waller (25:42):
If you're finding value in this podcast.
We greatly appreciate yoursupport by subscribing to our
(26:02):
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Spotify and leaving up to aThank you.
Rest assured that I will readeach and every one of them.
Please also take a moment tocheck out our podcast sponsors,
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For more information onspecific topics, timestamps or
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(26:24):
mattwallerpodcastcom.
Welcome to the Matt Waller podcast, where we
look at success at theintersection of technology,
logistics, supply chain, retailand CPG, also known as the
retail value chain.
I want to clarify that thispodcast is distinct from my
responsibilities as a professorin the Sam M Walton College of
Business.
Nonetheless, it aligns with myaspiration to provide practical
(00:31):
insights to professionals andbusiness by showcasing companies
and people that can enhanceyour ability to manage, lead and
strategize and marketeffectively in the retail value
chain.
And now, without further ado,let's get into the exciting
episode.
I have with me today SteveGraves, who is an extremely
successful executive coach, andI've known him for almost 30
(00:54):
years and I can tell you heknows so much about leadership,
management, personal management,personal improvement.
He's also a man of integrity.
As I said, I've worked with himfor over 30 years and he's just
a wonderful person, Steve,thanks for joining us today,
(01:15):
Matt thanks for having me.
Steve Graves (01:17):
It's really, really fun to be with you after
all these years.
Yes, we have known each other along time.
Dr. Matt Waller (01:22):
We have, indeed , and we have lots of friends in
common.
Yes, we do Absolutely, and I'vereally enjoyed watching your
career as you've succeeded, andI've heard it said that you know
you can measure a leader not bythe number of followers, but
rather by the number of leadersthey create, and I know you've
done that professionally andpersonally.
(01:45):
Your children have becomeleaders.
Steve Graves (01:53):
Well, thanks.
Dr. Matt Waller (01:53):
Thanks.
It's been a lot of fun.
I've had a really fun journey.
So, Steve, would you mindgiving us a few minutes just
about yourself and yourbackground?
Steve Graves (02:08):
Yeah, I'd love to Love to man.
Yeah, so I'm 68.
My, my wife karen and I havelived in northwest arkansas
since pretty much our entiremarriage, um, and you recently
celebrated your 40th wecelebrated our 40th anniversary,
uh, this, this.
Actually, this summer it had ahad a fun trip to europe.
Um, I've got three kids, adultchildren and um, we have five
grandchildren, with one on theway.
Congratulations, absolutely.
But only one is out of diapers.
(02:29):
So we've got babies everywhere.
We've got babies everywhere,and so you know I have a
wonderful family, lived here along time.
As a hobby, I primarily love tofish.
I do a lot of fly fishing and Itry to fly fish my way kind of
around the world Anywhere I cango.
That's a ton of fun.
I go In the work world.
(02:50):
My work world is kind of brokeninto three components right now
, which actually stretches backall the way back to where you
and I first met each other.
The core piece of my work iscoaching CEOs, business owners
and entrepreneurs, and I've beendoing that for three or four
decades.
Usually in my portfolio I've gotone or two huge global, perhaps
(03:14):
public company CEOs, maybe aFortune 1000, 500, 100, down
whatever, and then usually Ihave two or three, maybe four
family-held for sure, private,perhaps family-held business CEO
, business owner.
(03:48):
They could range as small as $4or $5 million in top-line
revenue up to I've got a clientright now that's a founder of a
$14 billion company and owns it,and so the size is not the deal
, it's more about the age, stageand what the company is doing.
And then I usually have two orthree gunslinging entrepreneurs
trying to scale, exit, merge orrealize their dream or something
like that.
And so I have this coachingpractice that I've done for
three or four decades.
And then in the last five to 10years I've moved into more of
an ownership role where I own abunch of companies or partially
(04:11):
own a bunch of companies, andI'm the chairman of the board of
a holding company that has abunch of these CPG companies
embedded in it, and so that'sbeen a lot of fun the last few
years.
And then I do a little writingon the side.
I've kind of got a littleweekly article You've been
writing for as long as I'veknown.
I've written a whole bunch ofbooks that my wife and my mom
(04:34):
and me read.
I know that's not true becauseI've read some of them.
Well, there's four people.
So that's kind of my world,matt, I love.
You know, if you cut me down themiddle, I'm a guy who, early on
, I wanted to be in my careerzone by the time I was 35.
I wanted to be kind of in theslot that I felt like was the
(04:55):
best version of myself, with mywiring, who I was, my ambitions,
who God made me to be and allof that stuff.
And I beat it by a couple ofmonths but I was kind of a late
bloomer because I'm a generalistand I wanted to.
I had a bunch of interest, youknow, but at my core, you know,
(05:16):
I love journeying alongside aCEO, a business owner or an
entrepreneur and just journeyingwith them for a season.
You know, I'm not the guy thatembeds myself in someone's P&L
and I'm still there 20 yearslater.
There's just nothing wrong withthat.
That's just not my model.
And so it's been a lot of fun,a lot of.
(05:36):
I've been incredibly blessed.
I could have never envisionedthat I would have been able to
have the life that I've beenable to enjoy when I was a kid,
looking forward, so reallyreally fortunate.
Dr. Matt Waller (05:47):
Well, you've never told me who you coach, but
a couple of people you'vecoached have told me.
You coached them, and I won'treveal their names, of course,
but one in particular is veryamazing.
The audience would be shocked,but you clearly have a gift and
(06:09):
ability you've developed in thisway.
There's no question about it.
Well, thanks, matt.
How has executive coachingevolved over the past decade?
Steve Graves (06:19):
Well, you know, interesting, great question when
I first started coaching youknow the distinction I had an
original business partner who'sbeen still to this day the best
business partner I've ever had,a guy named Tom Addington.
And when Tom and I firststarted our businesses together,
we kind of had a dualconsulting coaching kind of a
model and I've always used thekind of the you know just kind
(06:41):
of the graphic image that whenyou're consulting you're working
with a company and adding valueto a few people along the way.
When you're coaching, you'reworking with a person and adding
value to the company along theway.
And so it's the distinction ofthe customer is the customer of
the company or is the customerof the person.
You know the individual.
And when we first, when I firststarted coaching, tom bent
(07:04):
toward consulting.
I bent toward coaching, whichearly on gave us a really fun,
fun way to relate to each otherin our work.
But when I first startedcoaching people and leaders, I
mean there were some people outthere doing it, but it wasn't at
all the industry that it istoday.
I mean it's a massive, bigindustry today and I remember
(07:27):
probably 10 years ago we were inthe middle of scaling some
coaching stuff.
And so we had a couple of bootcamps and we brought in 30 or 40
different people who wanted tobe coaches, and they were
psychiatrists, psychologists,academics, pastors, sociologists
, and I mean they were from kindof every industry.
(07:47):
And then of course there werepeople who had been there and
done it and they wanted to giveback.
And so in today's world, youknow, you kind of you can almost
migrate into coaching.
If in fact you have anyaptitude or wiring and or if
you've had any success story atall under your belt, you can
kind of show up and providecoaching.
Now the big question becomes isyou know what it is that you're
(08:10):
really offering?
You know, are you, are youoffering primarily only soft
side skill coaching?
Are you offering primarily aspecialty, hard side skill, like
I'm a P&L person or I'm amerger person or I'm a supply
chain expert or something?
So you are you a slice of adeal?
And then it becomes kind of,what's your model of coaching?
(08:30):
Is it a group model?
Is it a peer-based?
You know, I mean, like, what isyour model?
But in today's one thing that'schanged.
So to be long-winded in myanswer, which I usually, will be
sorry, but the industry's blownup.
There's so many entry pointsfor people to get into coaching.
There's so many entry pointsfor people to get into coaching
(08:52):
and because people can succeedin business so quickly in
today's world, you have peoplewho are able to like they've
been and done somethingincredible by the time they're
30 or 35.
And so they come out on thebackside of that saying, well, I
want to do more than just do itagain.
I want to give back and I wantto coach.
And so the coaching industry isactually really really big and
(09:13):
thick and large and, you know,noisy, but, um, as a rule, I
think it's probably pretty goodfor the environment.
Dr. Matt Waller (09:22):
Well, you've, you've coached some, um, uh,
you've coached a lot of peopleover the past three, four
decades, um, but I'm curious,especially recently, say in the
past, I don't know five yearswhat are some of the common
challenges you're seeing thatexecutives are facing?
Steve Graves (09:42):
Yeah, you know, matt, that's a really, again, a
really great question.
You know, for me it probably is.
It's less about the universalapplication of all executives
and leaders.
I would probably cluster it orgroup it under what stage their
business or their enterprises inand in the world that I live in
(10:05):
and these are my terms, so Iwould not push those on anybody
else but I group every businessinto a zero to one phase, a one
to five phase or a five to 500phase.
Those are my threeclassifications of business.
Stage it has nothing to do withthe age and has nothing to do
with the size.
It has to do with the stage andthe complexity, the market,
(10:28):
just the stage and more of thestage and cycle time that that
business is in.
So for me it's more like whatleaders in the zero to one phase
are all facing together.
And then what are businessleaders in the one to five phase
and then the five to 500?
Because you know, if you'releading a five to 500 stage
(10:52):
business, you know you're moreof a mature business.
You are probably trying tofigure out how to balance
organic growth and acquisitionalgrowth.
You're managing a sophisticatedmarket.
You know you're not just tryingto push yourself in and be
known.
I mean you're managing asophisticated business
enterprise, perhaps public,perhaps private, but you might
(11:15):
have an investor pool that'swanting to buy you out or
whatever.
That's just a different wholething.
If you're in the early stagesof the businesses, you're just
trying to survive and getthrough that early stage where
you actually have proven up thatyou can make it in today's
world.
If I had to say you know, thereis a trend that I've noticed,
(11:40):
because in today's world there'sso much accessibility to
information, information andopportunity, the window for both
of those is so much larger andbigger than it was, you know,
when I was younger, like 20years ago.
People can just learn stuff somuch faster and so much quicker
(12:02):
and then you can actually trythings and the opportunities are
massive.
Because of that people cansucceed a lot faster.
So the need for people tocompress their learning curve is
a lot.
The pressure is a lot higher.
I can't just kind of slowlywork my way through a learning
(12:23):
curve in today's world.
I can, but I will probablysuffer because of it.
So there's a real need forleaders to kind of compress
their learning, be a little bitmore intentional and aggressive
in figuring out what it is.
They don't know what it is.
They need to know where theyneed to kind of shore up some of
their weaknesses or theiropportunities.
(12:44):
So that would be one thing thatI would say that has changed a
little bit.
Dr. Matt Waller (12:48):
So I want to get back to your writing.
I like to write a lot.
Someone I know, charles Morgan,who is the founder of Axiom.
He loves to write and writinghas been a key part of his
(13:10):
strategy in his life, you know,and he writes lengthy.
He's written a book, actually,but he also writes to the
company a lot, and you know Ienjoy writing as well and have
written a lot Different type ofwriting.
But I sometimes write thingsthat I never do anything with,
(13:34):
because I remember when I wasyoung, someone told me well,
there was a famous quote and I'mforgetting who said it that
said, I don't know what I thinktill I write it.
But writing, sometimes whenyou're just thinking, or, let's
say, you're resting, you're justthinking through things, your
ideas are not very wellsolidified and when you write it
(13:57):
, it forces you to put thelogical structure to it which I
mean in reading your writing.
I know you use strong logicalstructure, but do you ever use
that as a coaching tool?
I'm just curious.
Steve Graves (14:13):
Yeah, you know I do, Matt.
It's really funny.
For me writing is more of astreet-back exercise.
I love to sit down in front ofmy computer and populate a new
idea, you know, socialize itwithin myself and then maybe
talk to a couple people and thenjust try to bring words and
precision of thought, logicalconstruct, as you mentioned,
(14:36):
stuff like that.
But a lot of times what I'll dois I'll take a half-baked idea
and because literally every dayI'm in a laboratory, like every
day I'm with a leader, generallyspeaking every day, unless I'm
fishing or something else, youknow, if I'm working a leader,
generally speaking every day,unless I'm fishing or something
else, if I'm working that day,I've got like the perfect
laboratory to socialize ahalf-baked idea or to say, hey,
(14:59):
I've been thinking a little bitabout this, what do you think
about that, or how might that bebetter applied, or how might
you say that differently orwhatever.
And so I get the chance of youknow, at least two or three
times a week, of being able tokind of take an idea, push it in
and through a real worldsetting and then come back
(15:21):
around, and so what it does isit gives me we're talking about
feedback loops before we everstarted.
It gives me a lot tighterfeedback loop to be able to
crystallize a thought orsomething like that.
So I love to write.
You know I've kind of like you.
I've been a writer for a longtime.
I'm actually not a really greatwriter, I'm a guy that likes to
(15:45):
write and because I work formyself, I get a chance.
I can kind of do it if I wantto, and so I work for myself.
I get a chance, I can kind ofdo it if I want to, and so I do
it.
But I'm not as disciplined as aperson who that's what they do
every day.
You know that they do that.
I'm still writing the cracks.
I still kind of write when Ican find a couple hours.
You know I'm not the guy thatgets up every morning.
Most disciplined writers whohave that as their career, most
(16:08):
of them, will get up generallyearly.
They'll write four hours, maybefour and a half hours, maybe
five, and then that's it.
Then they'll do it the nextmorning and they're just
cranking out stuff like that.
I wish I had that environment.
I don't, but I do like to write.
To your point.
(16:30):
It forces me to bring languageand nomenclature around an idea
and I'm a framework guy.
I'm a framework models toolsguy, so it makes me do that.
Dr. Matt Waller (16:40):
Well, you know, I'm curious about a couple of
other things.
When you're coaching someone,does it differ how you coach
them based on the industrythey're in, or does that?
Steve Graves (16:57):
not matter.
Oh yeah, actually, a lot ofthings are differing, matt.
The industry.
They're in the stage that theirbusiness is in what it is
actually.
You know, I was on a panelyears ago out in Silicon Valley
and I remember I was on a panelwith a really great group of
people and the question was iswhat makes the perfect CEO?
And everybody went throughtheir list of 10, list of 5,
(17:19):
list of 6, list of whatever, andthey got to me I was the very
last person.
I said well, I might be a tadcontrarian on this one, because
I still have my list.
I mean, I wrote a book calledthe Five Tasks, which is what I
think is a really good framework.
But my answer that day was forme, the best CEO is the CEO that
(17:40):
has the right fit and the rightexperience attached to the
company at the right time.
In other words, you take aperson, it's contingent upon all
of that.
It is Matt, you got it.
And so for me, you know, whenI'm coaching somebody, I've kind
of got to contextualize whothey are, what industry they're
(18:01):
in, what stage their business isin, which is requiring them to
be a different kind of person.
You know, I've got a clientright now that has taken one
company public along with a PEfirm and a lot of money, took it
back private and now he's goingto go public again.
Well, that's a different kindof wiring, that's a whole
(18:22):
different kind of person, and soI'll contextualize into that.
But then the biggest thing thatI usually have to do, which
takes me a minute or two, is Ihave to contextualize my toolbox
for that person.
You know, if that person is aheavy duty notes and you know if
(18:43):
they, if they, lean into lotsof volume of stuff, then I've
got to make sure that I createthe model that gives them a lot
of stuff.
If they're not, I remember onetime I had a client out west in
Park City, salt Lake City area.
This particular person, I flewout for my very first meeting
and they picked me up.
He picked me up and I said soyou know, were we going to your
(19:08):
office?
And he said, well, I guess Ireally hate my office.
And I said, well, okay, so wegoing to your office.
And he said, well, I guess Ireally hate my office.
And I said, well, okay, so wewent to his office.
Anyway, we went to hisconference room.
Dude didn't have a piece ofpaper, no pen, no computer,
didn't know where his phone was,and he never went into the
conference room.
He was an outdoors guy.
Now, he was, don't mistake.
He was uber successful, hadbuilt and sold a number of
(19:31):
companies to Boston Scientific.
I mean, he was a model of whata lot of people would say could
I just be that person.
But here's the thing he hatedto be inside, hated it.
So I had to kind of reboot mywhole system.
Did you go?
Dr. Matt Waller (19:46):
fly fishing.
Steve Graves (19:48):
We did, man, we did, we did.
He would pick me up and wewould take walks.
We would go for long walks inthe, in the parks near him, we
would go fly fishing.
We, we did all kind of thingsand I had to squeeze in my
coaching agenda into the thingswe were doing, but that was the
only way we were going to everreally have an audience.
So I know that's an extremeanswer, but yes, there's a
(20:11):
contextualization.
If you know, the higher you getin an organization, the more
contextualized the help has tobe.
You know, if you're the CEO oryou're an executive, you know an
off the shelf.
Hey, here's my book, read itand just do exactly what the
book says.
That might help them.
But the chances are they'vealready been through that stage.
(20:33):
You know.
That's the reason why a lot ofthe books the more successful
books that have been writtenabout leadership and management.
They're great for the middle ofa company, but when you begin
to migrate up, you know theremight only be one or two things
that a very successful CEOreally needs help with.
(20:54):
I mean the rest of the stuffthey got, man, they've done it.
Dr. Matt Waller (20:59):
I believe what you're saying.
I mean this contingencyapproach.
I mean sometimes you see peopleenter an organization and you
can tell they were selectedbased on their resume and you're
like they were the right personin the right place at the right
time in the last company.
Yes, yes, right, but this isnot the right time for them.
Steve Graves (21:20):
Yes, yes, that's what I call historical
competence.
See, we know.
So I get your resume.
I'm trying to hire a new EVP,or VP of sales or whatever it is
you know, or CFO, whatever, andjust name it Potentially the
CEO.
Okay, and we know you did itthere.
But what we don't know is howmuch of your success there was
(21:42):
because of the timing the timingof the market, the stage that
was around you Like you mighthave had the culture, the
culture you got it.
The culture, all those things Iremember when back in, I don't
know, around 2000,.
Dr. Matt Waller (21:54):
It seems like Kmart was desperate and they
hired a bunch of people fromWalmart, particularly in
replenishment probably otherareas too.
They implemented the same kindof replenishment software that
Walmart was using.
They did all these things.
They hired, I mean, people leftNorthwest Arkansas to go there.
(22:15):
It didn't work it didn't work.
Steve Graves (22:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's yeah.
So that's one of the biggestrisk that happens, and it
doesn't fail every time, but thenumber of people that did it
there but they can't do it hereor they're not able to do it
here, it's a really pretty highnumber.
Dr. Matt Waller (22:38):
And I think there's been so many times I've
seen organizations.
They've got some people insidethat could do the job.
Yeah, yeah, they know theculture, they know the strengths
.
Yeah, they know the culture,they know the strengths.
Yep, and they're passed overfor someone from a shiny new
object.
You got it, yep, yep.
(22:58):
And I think it fails more oftenthan it succeeds.
Steve Graves (23:04):
I haven't seen the statistics yeah, I don't have
the data either, but I do havesome anecdotal experience, like
you, and I mean it's shockinghow many times we think we have
hired some super stud.
You know it's.
You know, one of my, one of myquotes that I've really have
believed and have bought into abunch of the last four or five
(23:24):
years is a statement that saysyou know, you know an extremely
powerful gift, a single gift cantake you places that the
absence of other gifts cannothold you.
And so you know, what you cando is sometimes a superpower can
move me into a position, atitle, but the absence of me
(23:48):
really having built out myfull-orbed constitutional
formation of who I am, it can'thold me there.
And so a lot of times we havepeople who show up and they'll
take a step up to the next rungand they'll say, oh, I can
easily do that.
Well, they don't really havethe full-orbed comprehensive
(24:08):
formation to be perhaps a CEO.
But I think you're exactlyright.
I'd forgotten about the target,I mean the Kmart story, but
that's exactly what happened.
Dr. Matt Waller (24:20):
That's precisely what happened, I mean
you know and so many times yousee companies trying to compete
in ways they're not going to win.
Yeah, but because theircompetitors doing it, they try
to do it.
And I think you know and one ofthe ways they do that is they
hire the shiny new object fromoutside of the organization.
(24:41):
Who knows how to compete thatway and the business processes
and culture are not set up forit.
Steve Graves (24:48):
Totally agree, totally agree.
It's a common mistake.
And here's the deal Even afterwe say it, we still keep doing
it.
Totally agree, totally agree.
It's a common mistake.
And here's the deal Even afterwe say it, we still keep doing
it.
I mean, it's one of thosethings because we just we feel
like we have to do it, and if wedon't hire that person,
somebody else is going to hirethem and we don't.
You know, we just we don'talways make wise decisions as
(25:09):
owners and as stewards of, youknow, stewards of business
enterprise.
Dr. Matt Waller (25:13):
Well, Steve, thank you for doing part one of
this.
I believe our listeners andaudience are going to love the
topics we've talked about.
There's probably either goingto be one or two more sessions
of this.
Thank you for your willingnessto do it.
I mean, I don't care whatindustry you're in.
The kind of things we'retalking about are so relevant to
(25:34):
people, right.
So thank you for taking time tovisit with me.
I really appreciate itAbsolutely, Matt.
Steve Graves (25:40):
Thanks for having me on.
I look forward to talking again.
Dr. Matt Waller (25:42):
If you're finding value in this podcast.
We greatly appreciate yoursupport by subscribing to our
(26:02):
YouTube channel, additionallyfollowing us on Apple and
Spotify and leaving up to aThank you.
Rest assured that I will readeach and every one of them.
Please also take a moment tocheck out our podcast sponsors,
as they play a critical role inkeeping this podcast running.
For more information onspecific topics, timestamps or
links to articles mentionedduring the podcast, head over to
(26:24):
mattwallerpodcastcom.
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