November 5, 2024 • 51 mins
I recently had the pleasure of interviewing Michele Meyer about her impressive 30+ year career in the consumer packaged goods industry. Michele held numerous leadership positions at General Mills, culminating in roles leading major operating units. She was able to drive significant growth and transformation throughout her career.
When I asked Michele what has contributed most to her success as an executive, she shared some valuable lessons from her time at General Mills. One key lesson was to "trust the process." She realized that career paths don't always follow a perfect plan, and there are opportunities to learn along the way. Another lesson was finding her strengths and gifts, excelling in those areas, and focusing less on trying to be excellent at everything. This allowed Michele and her teams to operate at their highest level.
Michele also stressed the importance of humility and teamwork. It took her time to understand that the team is as important as any individual. When everyone contributes, the overall result is greater than what any one person could achieve alone. She found success by valuing diverse perspectives on her teams.
As the leader of General Mills' Small Planet Foods division, Michele helped grow the business from $100 million to over $300 million in sales in a short period. A big part of her strategy was trusting and learning from acquired brand founders like Gene Kahn of Cascadian Farm. She brought their valuable perspectives into General Mills' approach. Michele realized General Mills could learn as much, if not more, from smaller companies they acquired. This helped shift General Mills' marketing approach to be more complex, intimate and relationship-driven.
In our discussion, Michele provided insightful perspectives on operating in the natural/organic space from both a marketing and farming supply standpoint. She acknowledged the challenges of meeting growing demand for healthier products while maintaining organic certification requirements. Michele also offered thoughtful perspective on how price sensitivity impacts consumer decisions in this space.
Post-retirement from General Mills, Michele now serves as an Operating Partner at NewRoad Capital Partners. Her experience successfully acquiring and integrating brands serves her well in private equity. Michele emphasized the ongoing value founders bring through their unique visions. She aims to support founders in achieving sustainable growth.
Through our conversation, it was clear that Michele’s success stems from her willingness to learn, her focus on developing diverse teams, and valuing all perspectives - including those from smaller companies. Her career exemplifies how continual learning allows one to take on new challenges across different industries. Michele’s insights provide a great lesson for any professional seeking to maximize their own career impact and contributions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Dr. Matt Waller (00:11):
Welcome to the Mant Waller podcast, sponsored
by New Road Capital Partners,where we look at success at the
intersection of technology,logistics, supply chain, retail
and CPG, which we also call theretail value chain.
I want to clarify that thispodcast is distinct from my
responsibilities as a professorin the Sam Walton College of
(00:32):
Business.
Nonetheless, it aligns with myaspiration to provide practical
insights to professionals inbusiness by showcasing companies
and people that can enhanceyour ability to manage, lead,
strategize and marketeffectively in the retail value
chain.
Before we dive into today'sexciting episode, I'd like to
take a moment to express mydeepest gratitude to our
(00:55):
founding sponsor, new RoadCapital Partners.
New Road Capital Partnersinvests in proven and innovative
technologies, products andservices that serve existing and
unmet needs in the marketplace.
New Road partners withgrowth-oriented companies in
supply chain, logistics andinnovative consumer companies as
experienced entrepreneurs andoperators.
(01:17):
The New Road team prides itselfon the high level of
collaboration it brings to eachof its investments.
New Road's team of investmentprofessionals and operating
partners have deep, relevantinvesting and operating
experience, includingsignificant experience leading
large divisions of enterprisecompanies and building
businesses from scale to conceptto realization.
(01:41):
To learn more, visitnewroadcpcom.
I also want to disclose that Iam an advisor to New Road.
I would like to take thismoment to recognize
podcastvideoscom for being ourprovider of podcasts.
Their mission is simple Tostreamline the process of
(02:01):
creating podcast videos.
They're equipped withindustry-leading equipment and
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time, money and hassle.
I'm very pleased with theservices they provide me.
Now, without further ado, let'sget started with today's episode
.
I'm really excited abouttoday's podcast recording.
(02:23):
I'm interviewing Michelle Meyer, who has over 30 years of
experience at General Mills intrue leadership positions with
global brands.
She was a very successfulleader.
The numbers show that.
As you listen to the recording,you'll hear her talk about what
(02:44):
made her successful.
You'll see that she iscertainly a humble person.
She's focused on learning andshe values teamwork, which I
think are all extremelyimportant in business.
The other thing that'sinteresting is Michelle has
experience when she was atGeneral Mills acquiring
(03:05):
companies.
She really valued the foundersand their perspectives.
She brought that into GeneralMills as a whole, not just
allowing the founders tocontinue that.
You'll hear about how thatimpacts marketing and leadership
(03:28):
as well.
The other thing we talked alittle bit about organic,
natural food, et cetera, etcetera these niche areas that
are growing like crazy.
We talked about it from theperspective of farming, from the
perspective of marketing, likepricing, also psychographics and
(03:51):
demographics.
I think you'll enjoy learningabout that.
Of course, now Michelle'sworking in private equity.
All these things she learnedreally are paying off in a
different way, where she's onthe side of the investor, but
she's an operating partner.
She's actually helping thesecompanies grow and scale and
(04:16):
succeed in the marketplace.
So it is a really interestingconversation.
I'll tell you a little bit moreabout her.
She was SVP and president ofthe Snacks Operating Unit of
General Mills and she managed aportfolio of brands that were
worth over $2 billion, includingNature Valley, fiber One,
(04:39):
larabar, chex Mix, et cetera.
She led the division to achievemid-single-digit top and bottom
line growth by growing marketshare in the bars, nutrition
bars and fruit snacks category.
Michelle's key responsibilitiesincluded P&L ownership,
(04:59):
advertising, product development, strategic planning and
holistic margin management.
Prior to her role in the SnacksOperating Unit, she served as
SVP and president of the MealsOperating Unit, where she was
responsible for $3 billion insales from brands such as
Progresso, green Giant, old ElPaso and Betty Crocker Potatoes.
(05:22):
So she has had a huge impact onreally food and grocery in
general.
You're familiar with all thebrands she led and Michelle's
experience in the natural andorganic space is evident by her
role as VP and president ofSmall Food Planets, general
Mills' Natural and OrganicOperating Unit.
(05:45):
Under her leadership, thedivision grew from $100 million
to over $300 million in salesand she was instrumental in the
acquisition of both LaRabar andfood should taste good brands.
In addition to her experienceat General Mills, she's held
various board positions,including non-executive director
(06:06):
at GNC Quinn, kevin's NaturalFoods and Embark Trucks.
Currently, she serves asoperating partner of New Road
Capital Partners and I have metwith her and worked with her in
a setting where I've actuallyobserved her contributing to a
(06:27):
team, valuing the team.
I really think you will learn alot from this podcast, so thank
you for joining us.
Well, thank you so much,michelle, for being with me.
I really appreciate it.
Michele Meyer (06:38):
Absolutely Happy to be here, Matt.
Dr. Matt Waller (06:41):
Michelle, you had an incredibly successful
30-year-plus career at GeneralMills.
It really culminated inleadership in major operating
units like snacks and smallplanet foods.
What did you learn during yourtime at General Mills?
This contributed most to yoursuccess as an executive.
Michele Meyer (07:04):
Gosh, matt.
There's a number of things, somaybe I'll give you a couple of
thoughts on that one.
The first one that jumps out tome is really just to trust the
process.
I think sometimes we have aplan that we think we need to
follow and we need to go fromjob A or division A to division
B and make sure that weaccomplish all of these things,
and there's a timeline andthere's a master plan and in
(07:27):
hindsight, what I would say isthere's windows of learning,
there's windows of opportunity,there's mentors along the road,
and to trust the process and totrust how you move through the
process I guess I would saythat's probably one of the
biggest ones for me.
A second one I would say that Ireally it probably took me into
(07:49):
halfway through my career atGeneral Mills really to bring to
life is to find out what youare really good at and to excel
in those areas.
So we all have strengths and weall have areas that are maybe
not our strengths.
I don't know if I'd call themweaknesses right.
Everybody sort of got theirhighs and their lows in terms of
what makes you tick, and sowhat worked really well for me
(08:09):
is to find what you're great at,what are your gifts we're all
gifted in some way.
Excel at those, do whatever youcan to make those better and
bring the gifts that you bringto work or to whatever situation
you're in.
And then to get your areas thatare not as strong into what I
would call an acceptable range,right, work on them where you
need to, but you don't need tobe excellent at everything.
(08:31):
You need to be excellent in theareas that you're gifted and
when you find that right balanceand then you trust your team
for all the other areas thatmaybe you're not as strong at,
the team overall becomesincredible and becomes better
than what you could be on yourown, and become certainly better
than what you could be if youtry and be good at everything.
(08:52):
And so I think that for me,learning what are my gifts, what
are the areas to excel in, andfocusing on those and bringing
them to the table every day atJenner Mills was really
important for me in terms oflearning and then really allowed
me to operate at my highestlevel.
So maybe those buckets Well.
Dr. Matt Waller (09:07):
I really think that's so true.
You know, having been aroundthousands and thousands of
students over the past 30 yearsand seeing their careers evolve.
It's really true, because we do.
You're right, we have differentgifts and we're designed a
little differently from others,and yet we can really utilize
(09:29):
those to excel.
But it seems that the world'screated so that we're supposed
to work as teams in a group,absolutely.
And so, on the one hand, toidentify your gifts, you need to
be self-aware to a large degree, you also need to be grateful
(09:49):
Okay, these are my gifts, I'mgonna excel in them.
And to operate in a team,you've gotta be humble a little
bit to recognize.
Yeah, I'm not good ateverything.
Yep, absolutely.
And I heard a study recently.
It was, I think it was onAndrew Huberman's podcast, but
I'm not certain about that.
But this fellow had studiedhappiness and the people who are
(10:14):
the most satisfied with lifeand happiest tend to be those
that are humble and have agencyMeaning.
They think they can do certainthings, and I think that when
you're comfortable with yourgifts, you can be more confident
to some degree.
Michele Meyer (10:35):
Absolutely, because you can also trust that
where I'm not gonna catch thator I'm not as and for me
personally, right, I love thebig picture, I love innovation,
I love driving results.
I am not as great at catchingall the little details right,
and if I am worried about thatin the back of my mind, that's
gonna set me off and maybe notlet me do the best that I can.
(10:56):
But if I know I have a divisionchief financial officer or I
know I've got the right teamaround me who is doing the areas
and excelling at the areas thatI know I'm just would take me a
lot more time, then we're waybetter off.
It allows me to play the gamethat I've been given to the best
of my ability for sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (11:15):
I remember the first meeting you and I were in
together Of course we had dinnerbefore the meeting, but but the
first meeting we were in wherewe were actually talking about
business and we werespecifically talking about
consumer businesses and Ilistened to your conversation
and what you were saying veryinsightful.
(11:36):
But I also noticed you werereally good at being a part of
the team and I try to observethat about new people how do
they behave in a group?
I would think that also gaveyou a big advantage.
Michele Meyer (11:50):
Absolutely.
There's a lot to look back onright when you've been somewhere
for 31 years and you've beenwith the same obviously in
different assignments ordifferent divisions or what it
might be, but a lot of the samepeople and certainly the same
leadership.
And when you think about itthat way, it gives you time to
reflect, because you start offthe first, at least half or
third of your career and sayI've got to prove to everybody
(12:13):
that I'm the best, and so I'mgonna, whenever it might be, I'm
gonna talk the loudest, or I'mgonna make sure I say the most
things, or I wanna make surethat I appear to come off the
smartest, whatever that might beright.
Those are sort of those earlyfalse starts, yes.
And then, as you get morecomfortable with the job that
you're in and who you are, whatwas the biggest gift to me at
(12:35):
General Mills was to besurrounded by incredible, I
would say, cross-functionalteams and leaders and people.
So if I knew that everybody inthe room was really, really
capable and excelled at theirjobs, I could trust them.
And so you want to read theroom.
You want to.
Is that something with eyecontact or whatever it might be?
(12:56):
Is that something you can do.
Or what also took me a long timewas to recognize, to be able to
say that I am wrong right in ameeting and to be able to pivot
right, because everybody comesin with what you maybe believe
is the right decision and yet,as you hear more people talk, if
you can be open and adjust onthe fly and comment as someone
(13:19):
else is making a different pointand say, you know, I hadn't
thought about it that way, or ifthose are the new criteria,
then definitely that is a betteroutcome and a better
alternative and certainly to doit, I think, overall makes us
better leaders.
But to do it in front of yourteam and to have folks recognize
that I might come in with apoint of view but I am
absolutely open to others and toinput, that makes us all better
(13:43):
, that opens the trust andimproves the team dynamics and
gets you to a better leadershipplace.
So those probably were the bigsort of life lessons halfway
through and sort of towards theend of my career that I feel
like just made me a betterleader and a better business
person overall.
Dr. Matt Waller (13:57):
You mentioned that doing that opens up trust,
and I think you're right,because people, if you're
willing to say, okay, I'm wrongabout that, right, right.
Or someone else says somethingthat's brilliant, and you say
that's brilliant, that'sbrilliant, I hadn't even thought
about that Exactly.
It does increase your trust, Ithink.
(14:20):
For people reporting to you.
It makes them feel a lot more.
Michele Meyer (14:24):
Right, they're gonna be heard.
Dr. Matt Waller (14:25):
yes, and they're more likely to challenge
you and to say really what theythink.
Whether it's right or wrong,it's totally irrelevant, but
it's so fun and then satisfyingto be in a group of people like
that, isn't it?
Michele Meyer (14:41):
It really really is, and to me that becomes
really critical that as youchoose whatever job, whether
it's your first job or midwaythrough your career or, for me,
chapter two, whatever you wantto call it that you're picking
people that you want to bearound, Right?
So everybody has a choice inwhat you do.
And so what I've always said isif someone, if I can see that
that company or those peoplehave a North Star, right, and
(15:04):
they have a value system, andfor sure, if they have a company
culture and they've identifiedsort of these are the key five
buckets that we want to focus onin our culture, that's all
helpful.
But the individuals, trulyindividually, do they seem to be
guided by a value system?
Do they have a North Star?
And if they do, and it alignswith my North Star, then the
(15:25):
rest works together for the best.
Right, and that's how I thinkabout it right, you can bring
your talents anywhere and youcan thrive in certain
environments.
And so to me I guess I don'tknow, that's maybe another life
lesson over 30 years of workingBe where you want to be and be
where you fit in most, andyou'll do the best there.
Dr. Matt Waller (15:43):
Well, I remember when, the first time
you and I met, I was fortunateenough to sit by you at dinner.
Michele Meyer (15:50):
Sure, that happened by happenstance Right,
definitely.
Dr. Matt Waller (15:52):
But I remember before the dinner I looked at
everyone's backgrounds and Ithought, hmm, I wonder how she
got connected to New Road and Iwondered if you really had
similar values Not the badperson, but the bad person,
Right, right.
But as I sat next to you within10 minutes, I knew it was easy,
(16:16):
I could actually, even when wetalked for the first few seconds
, I sensed that you were alignedfrom a values perspective.
Would you talk?
I mean and you said that was akey variable, Completely
critical.
You could have worked with anyVC or any private equity firm
you would have wanted to, butyou chose New Road, Right
(16:37):
exactly.
Michele Meyer (16:38):
It was really well.
Honestly, when I retired fromGeneral Mills, I had no intent
and I think I told you this.
Besides, you know, hey, Iwasn't a stay-at-home mom and I
really wanted that as a part ofmy arsenal and that was really
important to me from just avalue system.
And then we went through COVIDand I happened to be home and
I'm like my boys were still inhigh school and that was
fantastic for me personally andfor our family and I loved it.
(17:01):
I really hadn't thought that Iwanted to do much of a chapter
two and I had happened into aboard or two just from my
General Mills days and so thatwas great and it was interesting
.
And then, as the boys got olderand one went off to college and
you had a little bit more time,this concept of maybe pursuing
a chapter two and maybe you knowa part of it is you want to
continue to learn and you wantto continue to be challenged.
(17:24):
But you also know that you'vebeen blessed with a great career
and that you can give backright and there's people you can
mentor and there's situationswhether they're founders and
companies or business situationsthat you've seen right A
hundred times, and so can I helphere, regardless of what the
compensation is?
And so I hadn't really thoughtabout doing a chapter two.
But as I got a few years intoretirement, that seemed to make
(17:46):
sense and opportunities were outthere, and there were
definitely some, whether they're, you know, in any industry
private equity, vc, otherindustries and you know, you
know, within five or 10 minutesof talking to even a headhunter
on the phone if this issomething that's going to jive
for you and could you do it fora month as a consultant, versus
could you actually join a teamand be a part of that team and
(18:08):
say, you know what?
If I'm on your website, then Iwant to make sure we are similar
in our thinking and how wepursue opportunities and what we
say no to frankly right.
Sometimes what we say no to isjust as important, if not more
so, than what we say yes to.
And will I be on a team or witha group that you know gets us
into a company that I don'tbelieve in or I don't think has
(18:29):
the right prospects or has adifferent sort of grounding than
what I might think is the rightone?
And so for New Road and joiningNew Road as an operating
partner, it was criticallyimportant for me to not just
sort of go through the interviewprocess or have a few meetings
because, right, they're smartpeople and there's a lot of
smart people but just to reallysay you know, I could be around
(18:51):
you guys and gals, I could be apart of this team.
I think I could learn.
These other operating partnersare similar to me right in terms
of background, and I feel likesometimes you know you mentioned
like gosh, I look at yourresume or your background and
I'm not sure exactly what yourvalue system is.
And that's because 30 years inbig corporate America can really
make you a certain type ofindividual, and that was
(19:14):
painfully clear to me rightafter 31 years.
Like I loved what I did, I wassuper blessed, I was so
fortunate I can't even believewhat I was allowed to do.
And yet, year after year, after30 years, you're like, wow, I
think there's differentdecisions that I want to make
and this is a good window totake that break and be a
(19:35):
stay-at-home mom and do thosekinds of things that I didn't
ever have the opportunity to do,and so it was awesome.
But you're exactly right, sortof where you want to spend your
time is a choice, whether it'searly in your career, in the
middle of your career, yourchapter two, whatever that might
be right, where you want tospend your retirement years,
where you want to live.
All of those things cometogether and those were really
(19:57):
important in understanding whoNew Road was and how they made
decisions and who they put ontheir team was really important
to me to align with, for sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (20:06):
Well, you know and everyone listening heard
your bio before we startedtalking and you've had huge
amounts of responsibility, butone thing that may not have come
through is clearly as you'veactually brought about huge
transformation and growth.
(20:26):
You led a significant growthand transformation of small
planet foods, taking them from100 million to 300 million in
sales in a short period of time.
And— what would you?
I want to ask a little bit moreabout this category, but what
was your strategy and what doyou see as the keys to success
(20:51):
in that space in general?
Michele Meyer (20:53):
Oh for sure.
So when I was at General Millsand I had just been promoted to
run the Small Planet FoodsOperating Unit, that was very
early in the natural and organicdays where Kellogg, I think,
had just bought Bare Naked andGeneral Mills was probably the
second large CPG manufacturerthat was going to move into the
space, and so we purchaseddirectly from the founder, from
(21:16):
Gene Kahn.
We purchased.
It was called Small PlanetFoods and it was literally made
up of two brands, cascadian Farmand Mirror Glen, and they had a
number of different products,sort of with any to those lines.
None of them overlapped withcategories that General Mills
was in.
We didn't really know anythingabout this customer base, the
consumers that were here, but wejust knew that Bionatural and
(21:37):
Organic as an industry isgrowing mid 20% year on year.
Clearly consumers are movinghere.
There's an unmet need with ourportfolio of brands, and so it
was clearly something we allagreed we wanted to be a part of
.
I was asked to lead it working.
I would say maybe there's acouple of things Working with
the founder and trusting thefounder, believing in the
(22:00):
founder and keeping the founderstill a part of whatever you're
trying to do I would say wasprobably the most important
thing.
So Gene Kahn ended up sort ofdoing transition with me, but he
became the vice president ofsustainability for overall
General Mills so well beyondSmall Planet Foods, because we
knew that there was something wewere missing, that we just
weren't seeing as an overallcompany.
(22:20):
So we had Gene Kahn stay onunderstanding that you aren't
the expert.
So we might have, and Icertainly probably thought we
were the experts in food and weknew what to do in mainstream
food.
But that was really reallydifferent.
When you had consumers that hada dramatically different belief
system than maybe our consumersthat had on Progresso, supana,
(22:44):
kan or Old El Paso or thosesorts of brands, it was very,
very different.
And the role of certainingredients, or we would call it
counting commas, so how, if youlooked at that ingredient list,
how many commas are there?
I mean, are we talking about 45ingredients on Totino's Pizza,
which is great, that's a greatproduct and serves a great need,
(23:04):
but it is not for everyone.
And so what are the valuesystems of those consumers?
And recognizing that you haveno sixth sense here, right, so
you had definitely sort of youknew what to do with new
consumers in mainstreammarketing and products.
But we didn't know what to dowith new consumers in natural
and organic and the customerbase operated very, very
(23:28):
differently.
So going into a meeting atSprouts or at Whole Foods was
dramatically different thangoing into a meeting at Kroger
or H-E-B or Sam's Club orwhatever it might have been.
And recognizing that we neededto start all over and we needed
to learn.
So, role of the founder beingsuper humble and understanding
that you don't know what youneed to do and you really need
(23:48):
to listen and to learn.
And then, probably the third, Iwould say, really important
piece was you know, oftentimesyou make an acquisition, any
company makes an acquisition andyou think you're coming in as
like the great white stallionand we're here to rescue the
company and make it better.
And there were certainly thingsthat General Mills could do.
We had supply chain expertiseand we had purchasing power and
(24:11):
there were a lot of things thatwe could bring to small planet
foods or to any acquisition in adifferent space that was much
smaller and we could help themwith their margins and with
their team and the quality offolks.
But what we learned quickly wasthe opposite right, what can
this brand, what can smallplanet foods, or our first
(24:31):
acquisition of Lara Bar, whichwas $20 million at the time, or
our second acquisition of food,should taste good.
What can what we learn fromthis team bring to the rest of
General Mills which I know ismaybe sort of an odd thought,
but what can a hundred milliondollar business bring to a?
You know, at the time GeneralMills was probably eight billion
overall in sales.
What can that team or thatbrand teach the rest of General
(24:52):
Mills?
And it just so happened that aswe bought Lara Bar a couple
years into small planet foods,it was quite clear that there
was a different type ofmarketing revolution going on.
So it was the entree very, veryearly into social and the role
of digital ads and the role ofrelationship marketing and the
role of not like sampling aproduct in a cereal box that you
(25:16):
might have been used to 20years ago, but literally samples
at a cross country event or ata triathlon.
And my brand aligns with thesevalues and we want to be with
those people and the creation ofthis term brand ambassadors.
So I'm trained on Lara Bar andthat is my full time job is to
speak the gospel of Lara Bar andto tell folks what's in it and
(25:39):
what's not in it and why it canhelp you with healthy like that
was full.
We had a team of people and theconcept that General Mills that
spent hundreds of millions ofdollars in big marketing on TV
and print and FSI's and we didbig mass marketing could learn
something from the more tactical, regional, relational approach
(26:01):
of a company that was 20 milliondollars in sales was
significant.
And I would say for GeneralMills that was the beginning of
our transformation to morecomplex marketing, more intimate
marketing, different, and theindustry was moving that way as
well.
But it was our like veryobvious example that we can
learn just as much from acompany like small planet foods
cascaded farm ear glen or LaraBar or food should taste good as
(26:25):
they could learn from us.
And just having that revelationand recognizing that there's
value in both sides and you'reboth bringing something to the
table was critically importantfor both of our journeys for
sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (26:36):
You know, I think that's not a common view
from many and large companiesthat are very successful,
because it's easy to go in andsay, well, this company is small
, they don't know what they'redoing For sure.
Michele Meyer (26:51):
That's kind of what we thought.
I mean not exactly, we knewthey had something, but we
didn't think that there wasgoing to be a golden nugget for
General Mills on the other sideof learning from them, and we
found otherwise for sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (27:01):
Well, you know, and you were mentioning the
value systems, those companiesrepresent a value system, their
customers have a value system,that's, but it's all driven by
the shopper or consumers valuesystems.
That has affected all of this,which affects the psychographics
and how the marketing isconducted, as you mentioned
(27:23):
earlier, and I can see how thatwould be so helpful to a big
company acquiring a smallercompany, just learning the
psychographics of that market.
You can even take existingproducts and probably
differentiate new products toappeal to those psychographics.
Michele Meyer (27:45):
Absolutely.
I mean honestly, there werefollow on learnings as well.
When you sort of look at theworkforce and I don't want to
pick on millennials because I'msort of the other end of a
boomer millennial in between butGen Z and all of the new
employees that are coming in,they have different expectations
of a company culture or howthey want to spend their time
(28:07):
and how they want to spend theirday and who they want to work
for.
And bringing in some of thesevery values based but employee
based and values based companiesand seeing how they work
together, and that this is whynew generations are literally
saying I'm going to make achoice to do something that
feels a little moreentrepreneurial or fits my value
(28:28):
system.
Why are they making that choice?
And if we still wanted to becompetitive in the future at
General Mills, how do we want tocreate or need to create that
sense of team even within a?
You know, today General Millsis a $12 billion company.
How do you make it feel likeyou're a $20 million company on
your team, on your brand team,or within your operating unit or
(28:50):
within the US versusinternational?
But you've got to create asense of belonging for people
and it was really interestingjust to see how sort of
culturally values have changedand what employees wanted to
come to work for and how wecould learn that learn those
types of things from a smallcompany that had mastered it,
and how do you want to replicatethat at a big company?
So lots of, lots of learningsthere, for us for sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (29:13):
We know.
I looked up some data on theinternet and I don't know.
I've tried to validate it.
Some of it seems contradictory,but you know.
It's estimating the size of thehealth food market in the
United States to be over $200billion, which is bigger than I
expected it also, I sawestimates that organic was about
(29:37):
$50 billion.
I wasn't sure I thought that'sso.
Health foods $200 billion over$200 billion.
I know they're different.
Michele Meyer (29:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (29:48):
And then plant based food sales was about $5
billion or $5 to $10 billion.
I saw different estimates, andthat includes things like meat
substitutes, dairy free meals.
That's clearly growndramatically.
And then I started wonderingwell, are there farmers that can
(30:11):
supply this sort of?
Thing, yeah, it seems to me.
You know we've seen farmingconsolidate and yet the demand
for this other type of food isgrowing so dramatically.
You sometimes wonder how dothese meet Right?
(30:31):
Did you ever have trouble?
Michele Meyer (30:32):
Oh, there's trouble.
We absolutely have had thoseconversations at General Mills
over the years, right and just,and maybe just to back up and to
give maybe a little bit oftexture, to sort of understand
the numbers and where those arecoming from.
Health food as a whole couldcertainly include supplements.
It could include organic, right, that could be a part of it.
There's also sort of what wewould call it's not really sort
(30:53):
of a claim term but the naturalfood which is outside of organic
.
So there's natural and organic.
Organic certainly has sort ofthe organic trade association
and, very clearly defined, ithas to meet all these
requirements.
There's another bucket of foodwhich is in there as well, which
is sort of the natural foods,right, and so they may be
non-GMO but they, you know, butthey might or they might just
(31:16):
have certain things like we'regluten free or we are kosher, or
they might have claims, butthey might not meet all the
requirements of non-GMO or theymight not meet all the
requirements of organic.
So all of those types of foodscan bucket and some of them,
even though they call them food,supplements, perhaps could be
(31:36):
thought of within that categoryand that's why that number is so
large and maybe why organic,which is really expensive to
grow and super, super importantto the infrastructure of
consumers.
But that is why I mean organicis tricky from farming and is,
if we were just asking thequestion, is there enough
farmland to operate organic as asegment, if it were to become
(31:59):
as big as the entire healthsegment?
No, we have a lot of issues andthere's so many things, so many
hurdles in organic requiressoil to turn over certain ways
and there's just a lot of rulesaround that.
And there's a clear need forthat, there's no question.
But there's other ways to makeclaims in perhaps a less
strenuous way that still canmeet most or many of the needs
(32:21):
of those consumers who maybedon't want processed food or
don't want mainstream food.
So there's ways to get therethat are less stringent is maybe
not the right way to thinkabout it but have fewer rules
than organic per se, and soyou'll see all of those buckets
in the broader natural andorganic industry.
But to the farming specificquestion, yes, there's no
question.
(32:41):
If you look at, I mean you takeit back even a layer and you
say can the world produce enoughcrops and grains on farmland to
feed the world?
And that is a bad answer aswell.
And then you say for thegrowing need for health foods
and whether it's organic foodsand grains that we want or
(33:01):
whether it's enough to meet eventhe natural requirements.
Right, there's, not, there's.
We've done a lot to mainstreamand combine and work for
efficiency in farming and givethem rebates, and that's
important too, right, becausefarming is really hard and
you're at the mercy of weatherand it's hard to not have a
guaranteed income source, and soI would say I'm not gonna be
(33:25):
the expert here, but I would saythat there are many
agricultural questions andconcerns that we in the US have
to think through, and we alwayshad the Organic Trade
Association day and the Hill.
So we would go up every year toCapitol Hill and we would talk
with lawmakers and we wouldexplain to them how we saw
different buckets growing andwhat we needed in terms of
(33:46):
agriculture and policies andthose sorts of things.
But it's a tricky, it'sdefinitely a tricky topic.
Is there a way to get there?
There needs to be, there has tobe a master plan.
Is there a way to get thereentirely organically?
I would say no, but there areother buckets and there's other
ways to work that.
But in terms of needing morefrom farmland and more ability
(34:07):
to produce food, that'll be asignificant concern in the
coming I would say years, butfor sure decades.
Dr. Matt Waller (34:12):
I'm going forward Well you know, I eat
blueberries, blackberries andraspberries almost every day.
I love them, and I've probablybeen doing that for a few years
now.
But I noticed a couple ofthings recently.
Blueberries have gone way up inprice.
(34:33):
Fresh ones, frozen ones arefine.
There's two types.
There's the wild and thenthere's the other.
The wild are a lot moreexpensive and I thought I don't
know which is better.
How would I know?
And then I looked atraspberries.
(34:54):
I'm talking this week.
All these things have gotten alot more expensive.
Yeah for sure.
And so I'm bringing this in tokind of talk about price a
little bit.
But at any rate.
So the raspberries in the store, the ones that are labeled
organic, were almost not exactly, but almost twice the price of
(35:18):
the other raspberries.
And I picked them up and Ilooked at them and of course I
couldn't tell any difference.
I'm sure there is but twice thedifference.
And when you think about theconsumers today, there's some
consumers that they don't care,they're gonna pick organic no
matter what.
(35:38):
There's some that might wantorganic, but when they look at
their whole basket there's noway right Paying twice that.
And then it's a small littlecontainer of raspberries, oh,
there's no question.
So how do you think about thosemarketing variables?
Particular price in theequities.
Michele Meyer (36:00):
Well, there's definitely so.
You're absolutely right.
There is a price premium or acost premium which drives the
price premium on organic versusnatural or non-GMO and then
certainly versus mainstreamtraditional.
There's no question, and that'sas we talked about.
There's more requirements forthe soil and how you farm and
(36:20):
it's just it's harder to do andthere's more costs involved in
the labor and sort of the timethat it takes to grow and get a
feel ready and all of thosethings.
So those are real costs.
So if you absolutely wantorganic which frankly it's not
the only way to think about it,but it's really pesticide free,
right, and so if you want thatchoice, there is a cost to that
(36:41):
choice and we all know labor hasbeen harder to get Like in
general costs and logistics andtransportation and all of those
things have gone up in additionto the soil requirements that
are happening on organicspecifically.
So things are definitelycosting more.
There's no question, there arebuckets of food items.
I would guess, as you talkedabout the in your basket, are
(37:02):
you gonna make that choice foreverything in your basket?
And oftentimes what we wouldfind when I was with small
planet foods or running smallplanet foods is there are
certain things that I'm notgonna make a trade off on.
So I can wash a strawberry orwash a blackberry, but I can't
necessarily guarantee that Ihave gotten pesticides off right
.
So if I want to, anything thatis literally going straight from
(37:24):
the food in the ground into mysystem, in my body, I don't
wanna make any trade offs right,and you'll oftentimes find, if
I can peel a banana or peel anorange, at least there's a layer
of protection.
But for the types of foodsgrapes and raspberries and
blueberries and strawberries andthose types of things organic
was a choice that they were notgonna sway from right If there
(37:45):
was something that was moreprocessed right.
So center of the store is theorganic important.
Yes, it's important to me.
Is it required when maybe Ican't make ends meet or I can't
afford everything in my basket,so that there would be a
priority pecking order for myfamily and what's in my cart,
(38:07):
starting with the skin on that'sgoing directly into my body,
versus something that I mightpeel, versus something that's in
a box that has been processedin a different way, that maybe I
could just do non-GMO, or maybeI could just do the gluten-free
option here?
And we also found a differentset of requirements if it was
(38:29):
for my kids versus it's justsomething for me or for my
spouse or my partner or whateverthat might be, so consumers
would definitely not make thetrade off, or we're less likely
to make the trade off if it'sfor my kids.
So, hey, these, my kids, areyoung, I'm gonna feed them
Annie's mac and cheese.
I'm gonna get the organic oneIf I'm just going to be, if
(38:49):
we're gonna have mac and cheese,I might do Kraft for myself or
for my partner, but for theyoung developing mind and bodies
, those were harder trade-offs.
So there's definitely apriority of where you would make
those trade-offs.
And then there's certainconsumers, as you mentioned,
that aren't gonna make atrade-off for anything in their
cart, and so I think that's alittle bit of the beauty of
(39:10):
understanding consumersunderstanding what is driving
their purchases, beingincredibly respectful of their
choices and the spending and theright spending power that
they've got versus what theyneed to sustain their individual
life or their family's life andhow many kids they might have
in making sure that you haveenough offerings.
So you would see, annie's, as webought Annie's and brought that
(39:32):
into the General Millsportfolio, who was very, very
they were very clear as a brandto say we always strive for
organic.
But there are gonna be windowswhere we either can't get the
supply that we need and we mightbe made with organic as opposed
to completely organic here, orwe might be 90% organic in this
version of mac and cheese.
(39:52):
And we're gonna be clear wedon't ever wanna mislead you,
but we're gonna be clear in ourjourney to be entirely an
organic portfolio at the time ofwhere we can't get there and
where we have to make atrade-off and it might help you
with your value system or yourpurchasing power as you're
thinking about what you'reputting in your cart, and so all
of those I mean they havecontinued to become more complex
(40:12):
as you think about howexpensive life is and inflation
and the trade-offs that peoplehave to make.
But definitely there's apriority pecking order.
That perhaps has changed alittle bit since I worked on
small planet foods, but that wasvery much where it was at the
time.
Dr. Matt Waller (40:27):
You know, going back to your learning from
founders of companies that youacquired at the big company
General Mills, I would thinkwould translate well for you
into private equity, because youknow, I think there again, just
(40:48):
like a big, successful companymight downplay the value of the
founder of a small companythey're acquiring but you didn't
the same thing happens inprivate equity and I would think
that if you were a founder youwould want a private equity firm
that would value your knowledge, not to say that you know
everything and you know.
(41:10):
Of course, one of the things NewRoad tries to do is to bring a
network and expertise and thesekind of things through operating
partners like yourself, butreally knowing that even though
they may be struggling, there'sstill things they know that are
quite valuable or they wouldn'tbe where they are, you know.
(41:31):
Have you seen that play out inprivate equity as well?
Michele Meyer (41:34):
Absolutely.
I'm a firm believer in thevalue of a founder.
They created, they had aburning passion and desire and,
frankly, they were more.
They were less risk averse thanme, right, because I was not an
entrepreneur, I worked withinthe confines of a big corporate
structure, and so entrepreneursand founders have a great risk
(41:55):
for a vision and what theybelieve and that unmet need.
And I want to create thisproduct because I feel like it
is missing and there areconsumers who really want this,
right, whether it's Lara Barfrom Lara American or whether
it's Quinn Snacks from ChristieLewis or there's so many, so
(42:16):
many options out there.
And I think about what theybring to the table for the first
five to 10 years of a businesscannot be matched in terms of
that founder vision.
There are windows in everycompany as it grows, whether
that bench, it will be differentfor every company, whether it's
20 million in sales or 30million in sales or sometimes
even earlier than that where theskill set of a founder needs
(42:40):
other people around them andoccasionally needs a different
type of management expertise.
So, whether that's brought inthrough operating partners or a
CEO transition, where we stillhave a very clear role for the
founder and we want theminvolved because we know their
expertise and their opinion iscritical and I have seen a
number of different options anddifferent ways to make it work.
(43:03):
So there's usually a windowwhere you wanna bring in an
outside CEO usually right,that's gonna vary.
That's certainly my expertisecomes from a consumer.
There's other industries outthere, but it is always, in my
mind, important to have thefounder and their vision and
their insight a part of what ishappening.
And so, even at, I would say atLara Bar, lara wanted to make
(43:25):
the sale.
It was the right window forthem.
They were $20 million in topline.
Jen Ramilz, of course, came in.
We rolled that into smallplanet foods but we had Lara the
creative director, even thoughshe really wasn't a part of the
advertising agency at all, butwe titled her the creative
director and she, for as long asI was at Jen Ramilz and I still
catch up with her every year atExpo West she is still a part
(43:46):
of the brand because she had theinsight.
She had the belief.
Kristie Lewis is very similar.
Right, she had the insightaround Quinn Snacks.
Quinn is her son and that iswho she created these initial
products for was.
I have kids now and it is reallymeaningful and critical and
important to me and my valuesystem for my family to have I
(44:08):
call them better mousetraps,right, better than the main most
popular offering available.
Right?
What is it that we can createthat is better for you and
whatever the buttons are,whether it's gluten free or it's
non-GMO or it's organic or it'sall of these things what is
that belief system behind thatbrand?
They were the ones with thevision and it gives them a level
(44:28):
.
It gives the brand a level ofauthenticity and just a realness
that you can't necessarily findin big CPG brands.
Right, and there's a place forall of them.
Right, there's a place forTotino's and there's a place for
LaRabar, and there are a placefor Quinn Snacks and Kevin's
natural foods, and in therefrigerated section there's a
place for all of them, becausewe have all of those consumers,
(44:52):
certainly, and understanding andletting those brands grow to
the best of their your abilityand to the best of their
capability is what's criticaland important to me.
Dr. Matt Waller (45:03):
Michelle, you've had a very successful
career, but if you could goright now, if you could all of a
sudden appear before yourselfat the beginning of your career,
oh, that's a tricky one.
Yes.
Michele Meyer (45:17):
What would you tell yourself?
I think there's probably acouple of things, right.
The first one is don't takeyourself so seriously, and I'll
maybe elaborate on these, butdon't take yourself so seriously
, don't worry so much.
Maybe it goes back to, I think,the first question you asked me
, which is trust the process,right.
(45:39):
And then maybe the third bucketwould just be your chapter two,
right, sort of beyond, thecareer that you envisioned is
always evolving, right Up until,in my mind, almost the day that
you die.
Right, your chapter two isevolving and there's all sorts
of things to come at you, and sodon't overthink.
So, if we go to the first one,don't take yourself so seriously
(46:01):
.
I remember coming out ofbusiness school and, oh my
goodness, you just you're likethis is what I have to
contribute and I'm gonna be thebest and I'm gonna work the
hardest in just everything.
And I'm like Michelle, you're aI don't even know what I was
when I started a marketingassistant.
Like, you're very lowly in thisorganization and don't take
yourself so seriously, right?
(46:21):
You come in with all these sortof grand ideas and all the
things that you think that youcan accomplish and you can.
Right, there is a time and aplace for all of them, but just
maybe pausing a bit andlistening.
I remember how I sort of saidit.
It took me almost halfwaythrough my till, halfway through
my career, to recognize thatthe team is just as important as
(46:43):
me and I am, and our team isway better.
We are way better when everyoneis contributing, as opposed to
I have to do it all.
And so I just think, comingsort of straight out of
undergrad to grad school and I'mgonna hit the ground running,
just don't take yourself soseriously and trust the folks
around you.
And that leads into number two,which is just sort of let the
(47:05):
process play out right and justgive it time and recognize that
there are windows for everything.
Someone.
I even remember where I mighthave actually been, an article
that I read early on and it wasa little bit more geared towards
women and the choices thatmaybe you have to make If I'm
gonna have kids, am I stillgonna work, and all of those
(47:27):
different things.
And the concept from thearticle which I might have been
from the Harvard Business Reviewis just this concept of you can
have it all.
You just maybe can't have it atthe same time, and I thought
that was really really goodadvice.
Oh, I know it was actually likethe first five women who
graduated from Harvard BusinessSchool who were interviewed at
(47:48):
the end of their careers andthat was their advice, sort of
back to the new generation thatwas coming and for me, that was
that really landed for me, notuntil probably middle of my
career, but this concept of,like boy, I am married, I have
two kids, I have hats, I haveaging parents, all of the things
that we all have.
(48:09):
Everyone has different,competing priorities and just
sort of let the process play out.
I do want it all, right, we allwant it all.
What all is maybe varies andchanges as you get older, but we
all have windows of.
I do want it all, but thisconcept of it just may not be at
the same time, but you'll getthere right, you'll get it all
(48:30):
and again, all will change interms of a definition.
So maybe that for sort ofbucket number two, I think is
was probably good advice for myyounger self that I really, you
know, heard midway through mycareer but didn't hear at the
beginning.
And then maybe the third bucketis there is a chapter two and
that's gonna evolve and I thinkfor me what I've learned about
(48:53):
myself in sort of this secondwindow is I love to learn and so
I don't know they sort of callthat a bucket of.
I'm a learner and I love newsituations and I don't know that
I would have ever assumed thatI would have bet anything
besides CPG and big.
You know big companies and Ilearned smaller companies and I
learned founders, but that'swhat I was always within the
general males bucket and you canlearn different things, you can
(49:17):
evolve, you can learn differentindustries, you can pick up new
skill sets, you can be a youknow, a mentee, but you can be a
mentor and it's all of thosethings that evolve in chapter
two, right, and your valuesystem might all stay the same,
but that's sort of you can haveit all the all changes, right.
And so maybe those in terms ofpieces of advice are the things
(49:42):
that whether they would havelanded on me at age 24, when I
started at general males, Idon't know right.
So there's sort of a little bitof the give and take there as
well, but I guess that would bethe advice that I would give to
my younger self.
Dr. Matt Waller (49:54):
Thank you so much.
This has been terrific.
I really appreciate you takingtime to join me today and to
share with the audience aboutthis.
Michele Meyer (50:04):
Absolutely Thanks , man.
I enjoyed it and appreciate allthe questions.
Dr. Matt Waller (50:08):
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We welcome any feedback orquestions related to the podcast
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(50:28):
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matwallarpodcastcom.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Mant Waller podcast, sponsored
by New Road Capital Partners,where we look at success at the
intersection of technology,logistics, supply chain, retail
and CPG, which we also call theretail value chain.
I want to clarify that thispodcast is distinct from my
responsibilities as a professorin the Sam Walton College of
(00:32):
Business.
Nonetheless, it aligns with myaspiration to provide practical
insights to professionals inbusiness by showcasing companies
and people that can enhanceyour ability to manage, lead,
strategize and marketeffectively in the retail value
chain.
Before we dive into today'sexciting episode, I'd like to
take a moment to express mydeepest gratitude to our
(00:55):
founding sponsor, new RoadCapital Partners.
New Road Capital Partnersinvests in proven and innovative
technologies, products andservices that serve existing and
unmet needs in the marketplace.
New Road partners withgrowth-oriented companies in
supply chain, logistics andinnovative consumer companies as
experienced entrepreneurs andoperators.
(01:17):
The New Road team prides itselfon the high level of
collaboration it brings to eachof its investments.
New Road's team of investmentprofessionals and operating
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To learn more, visitnewroadcpcom.
I also want to disclose that Iam an advisor to New Road.
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Their mission is simple Tostreamline the process of
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They're equipped withindustry-leading equipment and
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I'm very pleased with theservices they provide me.
Now, without further ado, let'sget started with today's episode
.
I'm really excited abouttoday's podcast recording.
(02:23):
I'm interviewing Michelle Meyer, who has over 30 years of
experience at General Mills intrue leadership positions with
global brands.
She was a very successfulleader.
The numbers show that.
As you listen to the recording,you'll hear her talk about what
(02:44):
made her successful.
You'll see that she iscertainly a humble person.
She's focused on learning andshe values teamwork, which I
think are all extremelyimportant in business.
The other thing that'sinteresting is Michelle has
experience when she was atGeneral Mills acquiring
(03:05):
companies.
She really valued the foundersand their perspectives.
She brought that into GeneralMills as a whole, not just
allowing the founders tocontinue that.
You'll hear about how thatimpacts marketing and leadership
(03:28):
as well.
The other thing we talked alittle bit about organic,
natural food, et cetera, etcetera these niche areas that
are growing like crazy.
We talked about it from theperspective of farming, from the
perspective of marketing, likepricing, also psychographics and
(03:51):
demographics.
I think you'll enjoy learningabout that.
Of course, now Michelle'sworking in private equity.
All these things she learnedreally are paying off in a
different way, where she's onthe side of the investor, but
she's an operating partner.
She's actually helping thesecompanies grow and scale and
(04:16):
succeed in the marketplace.
So it is a really interestingconversation.
I'll tell you a little bit moreabout her.
She was SVP and president ofthe Snacks Operating Unit of
General Mills and she managed aportfolio of brands that were
worth over $2 billion, includingNature Valley, fiber One,
(04:39):
larabar, chex Mix, et cetera.
She led the division to achievemid-single-digit top and bottom
line growth by growing marketshare in the bars, nutrition
bars and fruit snacks category.
Michelle's key responsibilitiesincluded P&L ownership,
(04:59):
advertising, product development, strategic planning and
holistic margin management.
Prior to her role in the SnacksOperating Unit, she served as
SVP and president of the MealsOperating Unit, where she was
responsible for $3 billion insales from brands such as
Progresso, green Giant, old ElPaso and Betty Crocker Potatoes.
(05:22):
So she has had a huge impact onreally food and grocery in
general.
You're familiar with all thebrands she led and Michelle's
experience in the natural andorganic space is evident by her
role as VP and president ofSmall Food Planets, general
Mills' Natural and OrganicOperating Unit.
(05:45):
Under her leadership, thedivision grew from $100 million
to over $300 million in salesand she was instrumental in the
acquisition of both LaRabar andfood should taste good brands.
In addition to her experienceat General Mills, she's held
various board positions,including non-executive director
(06:06):
at GNC Quinn, kevin's NaturalFoods and Embark Trucks.
Currently, she serves asoperating partner of New Road
Capital Partners and I have metwith her and worked with her in
a setting where I've actuallyobserved her contributing to a
(06:27):
team, valuing the team.
I really think you will learn alot from this podcast, so thank
you for joining us.
Well, thank you so much,michelle, for being with me.
I really appreciate it.
Michele Meyer (06:38):
Absolutely Happy to be here, Matt.
Dr. Matt Waller (06:41):
Michelle, you had an incredibly successful
30-year-plus career at GeneralMills.
It really culminated inleadership in major operating
units like snacks and smallplanet foods.
What did you learn during yourtime at General Mills?
This contributed most to yoursuccess as an executive.
Michele Meyer (07:04):
Gosh, matt.
There's a number of things, somaybe I'll give you a couple of
thoughts on that one.
The first one that jumps out tome is really just to trust the
process.
I think sometimes we have aplan that we think we need to
follow and we need to go fromjob A or division A to division
B and make sure that weaccomplish all of these things,
and there's a timeline andthere's a master plan and in
(07:27):
hindsight, what I would say isthere's windows of learning,
there's windows of opportunity,there's mentors along the road,
and to trust the process and totrust how you move through the
process I guess I would saythat's probably one of the
biggest ones for me.
A second one I would say that Ireally it probably took me into
(07:49):
halfway through my career atGeneral Mills really to bring to
life is to find out what youare really good at and to excel
in those areas.
So we all have strengths and weall have areas that are maybe
not our strengths.
I don't know if I'd call themweaknesses right.
Everybody sort of got theirhighs and their lows in terms of
what makes you tick, and sowhat worked really well for me
(08:09):
is to find what you're great at,what are your gifts we're all
gifted in some way.
Excel at those, do whatever youcan to make those better and
bring the gifts that you bringto work or to whatever situation
you're in.
And then to get your areas thatare not as strong into what I
would call an acceptable range,right, work on them where you
need to, but you don't need tobe excellent at everything.
(08:31):
You need to be excellent in theareas that you're gifted and
when you find that right balanceand then you trust your team
for all the other areas thatmaybe you're not as strong at,
the team overall becomesincredible and becomes better
than what you could be on yourown, and become certainly better
than what you could be if youtry and be good at everything.
(08:52):
And so I think that for me,learning what are my gifts, what
are the areas to excel in, andfocusing on those and bringing
them to the table every day atJenner Mills was really
important for me in terms oflearning and then really allowed
me to operate at my highestlevel.
So maybe those buckets Well.
Dr. Matt Waller (09:07):
I really think that's so true.
You know, having been aroundthousands and thousands of
students over the past 30 yearsand seeing their careers evolve.
It's really true, because we do.
You're right, we have differentgifts and we're designed a
little differently from others,and yet we can really utilize
(09:29):
those to excel.
But it seems that the world'screated so that we're supposed
to work as teams in a group,absolutely.
And so, on the one hand, toidentify your gifts, you need to
be self-aware to a large degree, you also need to be grateful
(09:49):
Okay, these are my gifts, I'mgonna excel in them.
And to operate in a team,you've gotta be humble a little
bit to recognize.
Yeah, I'm not good ateverything.
Yep, absolutely.
And I heard a study recently.
It was, I think it was onAndrew Huberman's podcast, but
I'm not certain about that.
But this fellow had studiedhappiness and the people who are
(10:14):
the most satisfied with lifeand happiest tend to be those
that are humble and have agencyMeaning.
They think they can do certainthings, and I think that when
you're comfortable with yourgifts, you can be more confident
to some degree.
Michele Meyer (10:35):
Absolutely, because you can also trust that
where I'm not gonna catch thator I'm not as and for me
personally, right, I love thebig picture, I love innovation,
I love driving results.
I am not as great at catchingall the little details right,
and if I am worried about thatin the back of my mind, that's
gonna set me off and maybe notlet me do the best that I can.
(10:56):
But if I know I have a divisionchief financial officer or I
know I've got the right teamaround me who is doing the areas
and excelling at the areas thatI know I'm just would take me a
lot more time, then we're waybetter off.
It allows me to play the gamethat I've been given to the best
of my ability for sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (11:15):
I remember the first meeting you and I were in
together Of course we had dinnerbefore the meeting, but but the
first meeting we were in wherewe were actually talking about
business and we werespecifically talking about
consumer businesses and Ilistened to your conversation
and what you were saying veryinsightful.
(11:36):
But I also noticed you werereally good at being a part of
the team and I try to observethat about new people how do
they behave in a group?
I would think that also gaveyou a big advantage.
Michele Meyer (11:50):
Absolutely.
There's a lot to look back onright when you've been somewhere
for 31 years and you've beenwith the same obviously in
different assignments ordifferent divisions or what it
might be, but a lot of the samepeople and certainly the same
leadership.
And when you think about itthat way, it gives you time to
reflect, because you start offthe first, at least half or
third of your career and sayI've got to prove to everybody
(12:13):
that I'm the best, and so I'mgonna, whenever it might be, I'm
gonna talk the loudest, or I'mgonna make sure I say the most
things, or I wanna make surethat I appear to come off the
smartest, whatever that might beright.
Those are sort of those earlyfalse starts, yes.
And then, as you get morecomfortable with the job that
you're in and who you are, whatwas the biggest gift to me at
(12:35):
General Mills was to besurrounded by incredible, I
would say, cross-functionalteams and leaders and people.
So if I knew that everybody inthe room was really, really
capable and excelled at theirjobs, I could trust them.
And so you want to read theroom.
You want to.
Is that something with eyecontact or whatever it might be?
(12:56):
Is that something you can do.
Or what also took me a long timewas to recognize, to be able to
say that I am wrong right in ameeting and to be able to pivot
right, because everybody comesin with what you maybe believe
is the right decision and yet,as you hear more people talk, if
you can be open and adjust onthe fly and comment as someone
(13:19):
else is making a different pointand say, you know, I hadn't
thought about it that way, or ifthose are the new criteria,
then definitely that is a betteroutcome and a better
alternative and certainly to doit, I think, overall makes us
better leaders.
But to do it in front of yourteam and to have folks recognize
that I might come in with apoint of view but I am
absolutely open to others and toinput, that makes us all better
(13:43):
, that opens the trust andimproves the team dynamics and
gets you to a better leadershipplace.
So those probably were the bigsort of life lessons halfway
through and sort of towards theend of my career that I feel
like just made me a betterleader and a better business
person overall.
Dr. Matt Waller (13:57):
You mentioned that doing that opens up trust,
and I think you're right,because people, if you're
willing to say, okay, I'm wrongabout that, right, right.
Or someone else says somethingthat's brilliant, and you say
that's brilliant, that'sbrilliant, I hadn't even thought
about that Exactly.
It does increase your trust, Ithink.
(14:20):
For people reporting to you.
It makes them feel a lot more.
Michele Meyer (14:24):
Right, they're gonna be heard.
Dr. Matt Waller (14:25):
yes, and they're more likely to challenge
you and to say really what theythink.
Whether it's right or wrong,it's totally irrelevant, but
it's so fun and then satisfyingto be in a group of people like
that, isn't it?
Michele Meyer (14:41):
It really really is, and to me that becomes
really critical that as youchoose whatever job, whether
it's your first job or midwaythrough your career or, for me,
chapter two, whatever you wantto call it that you're picking
people that you want to bearound, Right?
So everybody has a choice inwhat you do.
And so what I've always said isif someone, if I can see that
that company or those peoplehave a North Star, right, and
(15:04):
they have a value system, andfor sure, if they have a company
culture and they've identifiedsort of these are the key five
buckets that we want to focus onin our culture, that's all
helpful.
But the individuals, trulyindividually, do they seem to be
guided by a value system?
Do they have a North Star?
And if they do, and it alignswith my North Star, then the
(15:25):
rest works together for the best.
Right, and that's how I thinkabout it right, you can bring
your talents anywhere and youcan thrive in certain
environments.
And so to me I guess I don'tknow, that's maybe another life
lesson over 30 years of workingBe where you want to be and be
where you fit in most, andyou'll do the best there.
Dr. Matt Waller (15:43):
Well, I remember when, the first time
you and I met, I was fortunateenough to sit by you at dinner.
Michele Meyer (15:50):
Sure, that happened by happenstance Right,
definitely.
Dr. Matt Waller (15:52):
But I remember before the dinner I looked at
everyone's backgrounds and Ithought, hmm, I wonder how she
got connected to New Road and Iwondered if you really had
similar values Not the badperson, but the bad person,
Right, right.
But as I sat next to you within10 minutes, I knew it was easy,
(16:16):
I could actually, even when wetalked for the first few seconds
, I sensed that you were alignedfrom a values perspective.
Would you talk?
I mean and you said that was akey variable, Completely
critical.
You could have worked with anyVC or any private equity firm
you would have wanted to, butyou chose New Road, Right
(16:37):
exactly.
Michele Meyer (16:38):
It was really well.
Honestly, when I retired fromGeneral Mills, I had no intent
and I think I told you this.
Besides, you know, hey, Iwasn't a stay-at-home mom and I
really wanted that as a part ofmy arsenal and that was really
important to me from just avalue system.
And then we went through COVIDand I happened to be home and
I'm like my boys were still inhigh school and that was
fantastic for me personally andfor our family and I loved it.
(17:01):
I really hadn't thought that Iwanted to do much of a chapter
two and I had happened into aboard or two just from my
General Mills days and so thatwas great and it was interesting
.
And then, as the boys got olderand one went off to college and
you had a little bit more time,this concept of maybe pursuing
a chapter two and maybe you knowa part of it is you want to
continue to learn and you wantto continue to be challenged.
(17:24):
But you also know that you'vebeen blessed with a great career
and that you can give backright and there's people you can
mentor and there's situationswhether they're founders and
companies or business situationsthat you've seen right A
hundred times, and so can I helphere, regardless of what the
compensation is?
And so I hadn't really thoughtabout doing a chapter two.
But as I got a few years intoretirement, that seemed to make
(17:46):
sense and opportunities were outthere, and there were
definitely some, whether they're, you know, in any industry
private equity, vc, otherindustries and you know, you
know, within five or 10 minutesof talking to even a headhunter
on the phone if this issomething that's going to jive
for you and could you do it fora month as a consultant, versus
could you actually join a teamand be a part of that team and
(18:08):
say, you know what?
If I'm on your website, then Iwant to make sure we are similar
in our thinking and how wepursue opportunities and what we
say no to frankly right.
Sometimes what we say no to isjust as important, if not more
so, than what we say yes to.
And will I be on a team or witha group that you know gets us
into a company that I don'tbelieve in or I don't think has
(18:29):
the right prospects or has adifferent sort of grounding than
what I might think is the rightone?
And so for New Road and joiningNew Road as an operating
partner, it was criticallyimportant for me to not just
sort of go through the interviewprocess or have a few meetings
because, right, they're smartpeople and there's a lot of
smart people but just to reallysay you know, I could be around
(18:51):
you guys and gals, I could be apart of this team.
I think I could learn.
These other operating partnersare similar to me right in terms
of background, and I feel likesometimes you know you mentioned
like gosh, I look at yourresume or your background and
I'm not sure exactly what yourvalue system is.
And that's because 30 years inbig corporate America can really
make you a certain type ofindividual, and that was
(19:14):
painfully clear to me rightafter 31 years.
Like I loved what I did, I wassuper blessed, I was so
fortunate I can't even believewhat I was allowed to do.
And yet, year after year, after30 years, you're like, wow, I
think there's differentdecisions that I want to make
and this is a good window totake that break and be a
(19:35):
stay-at-home mom and do thosekinds of things that I didn't
ever have the opportunity to do,and so it was awesome.
But you're exactly right, sortof where you want to spend your
time is a choice, whether it'searly in your career, in the
middle of your career, yourchapter two, whatever that might
be right, where you want tospend your retirement years,
where you want to live.
All of those things cometogether and those were really
(19:57):
important in understanding whoNew Road was and how they made
decisions and who they put ontheir team was really important
to me to align with, for sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (20:06):
Well, you know and everyone listening heard
your bio before we startedtalking and you've had huge
amounts of responsibility, butone thing that may not have come
through is clearly as you'veactually brought about huge
transformation and growth.
(20:26):
You led a significant growthand transformation of small
planet foods, taking them from100 million to 300 million in
sales in a short period of time.
And— what would you?
I want to ask a little bit moreabout this category, but what
was your strategy and what doyou see as the keys to success
(20:51):
in that space in general?
Michele Meyer (20:53):
Oh for sure.
So when I was at General Millsand I had just been promoted to
run the Small Planet FoodsOperating Unit, that was very
early in the natural and organicdays where Kellogg, I think,
had just bought Bare Naked andGeneral Mills was probably the
second large CPG manufacturerthat was going to move into the
space, and so we purchaseddirectly from the founder, from
(21:16):
Gene Kahn.
We purchased.
It was called Small PlanetFoods and it was literally made
up of two brands, cascadian Farmand Mirror Glen, and they had a
number of different products,sort of with any to those lines.
None of them overlapped withcategories that General Mills
was in.
We didn't really know anythingabout this customer base, the
consumers that were here, but wejust knew that Bionatural and
(21:37):
Organic as an industry isgrowing mid 20% year on year.
Clearly consumers are movinghere.
There's an unmet need with ourportfolio of brands, and so it
was clearly something we allagreed we wanted to be a part of
.
I was asked to lead it working.
I would say maybe there's acouple of things Working with
the founder and trusting thefounder, believing in the
(22:00):
founder and keeping the founderstill a part of whatever you're
trying to do I would say wasprobably the most important
thing.
So Gene Kahn ended up sort ofdoing transition with me, but he
became the vice president ofsustainability for overall
General Mills so well beyondSmall Planet Foods, because we
knew that there was something wewere missing, that we just
weren't seeing as an overallcompany.
(22:20):
So we had Gene Kahn stay onunderstanding that you aren't
the expert.
So we might have, and Icertainly probably thought we
were the experts in food and weknew what to do in mainstream
food.
But that was really reallydifferent.
When you had consumers that hada dramatically different belief
system than maybe our consumersthat had on Progresso, supana,
(22:44):
kan or Old El Paso or thosesorts of brands, it was very,
very different.
And the role of certainingredients, or we would call it
counting commas, so how, if youlooked at that ingredient list,
how many commas are there?
I mean, are we talking about 45ingredients on Totino's Pizza,
which is great, that's a greatproduct and serves a great need,
(23:04):
but it is not for everyone.
And so what are the valuesystems of those consumers?
And recognizing that you haveno sixth sense here, right, so
you had definitely sort of youknew what to do with new
consumers in mainstreammarketing and products.
But we didn't know what to dowith new consumers in natural
and organic and the customerbase operated very, very
(23:28):
differently.
So going into a meeting atSprouts or at Whole Foods was
dramatically different thangoing into a meeting at Kroger
or H-E-B or Sam's Club orwhatever it might have been.
And recognizing that we neededto start all over and we needed
to learn.
So, role of the founder beingsuper humble and understanding
that you don't know what youneed to do and you really need
(23:48):
to listen and to learn.
And then, probably the third, Iwould say, really important
piece was you know, oftentimesyou make an acquisition, any
company makes an acquisition andyou think you're coming in as
like the great white stallionand we're here to rescue the
company and make it better.
And there were certainly thingsthat General Mills could do.
We had supply chain expertiseand we had purchasing power and
(24:11):
there were a lot of things thatwe could bring to small planet
foods or to any acquisition in adifferent space that was much
smaller and we could help themwith their margins and with
their team and the quality offolks.
But what we learned quickly wasthe opposite right, what can
this brand, what can smallplanet foods, or our first
(24:31):
acquisition of Lara Bar, whichwas $20 million at the time, or
our second acquisition of food,should taste good.
What can what we learn fromthis team bring to the rest of
General Mills which I know ismaybe sort of an odd thought,
but what can a hundred milliondollar business bring to a?
You know, at the time GeneralMills was probably eight billion
overall in sales.
What can that team or thatbrand teach the rest of General
(24:52):
Mills?
And it just so happened that aswe bought Lara Bar a couple
years into small planet foods,it was quite clear that there
was a different type ofmarketing revolution going on.
So it was the entree very, veryearly into social and the role
of digital ads and the role ofrelationship marketing and the
role of not like sampling aproduct in a cereal box that you
(25:16):
might have been used to 20years ago, but literally samples
at a cross country event or ata triathlon.
And my brand aligns with thesevalues and we want to be with
those people and the creation ofthis term brand ambassadors.
So I'm trained on Lara Bar andthat is my full time job is to
speak the gospel of Lara Bar andto tell folks what's in it and
(25:39):
what's not in it and why it canhelp you with healthy like that
was full.
We had a team of people and theconcept that General Mills that
spent hundreds of millions ofdollars in big marketing on TV
and print and FSI's and we didbig mass marketing could learn
something from the more tactical, regional, relational approach
(26:01):
of a company that was 20 milliondollars in sales was
significant.
And I would say for GeneralMills that was the beginning of
our transformation to morecomplex marketing, more intimate
marketing, different, and theindustry was moving that way as
well.
But it was our like veryobvious example that we can
learn just as much from acompany like small planet foods
cascaded farm ear glen or LaraBar or food should taste good as
(26:25):
they could learn from us.
And just having that revelationand recognizing that there's
value in both sides and you'reboth bringing something to the
table was critically importantfor both of our journeys for
sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (26:36):
You know, I think that's not a common view
from many and large companiesthat are very successful,
because it's easy to go in andsay, well, this company is small
, they don't know what they'redoing For sure.
Michele Meyer (26:51):
That's kind of what we thought.
I mean not exactly, we knewthey had something, but we
didn't think that there wasgoing to be a golden nugget for
General Mills on the other sideof learning from them, and we
found otherwise for sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (27:01):
Well, you know, and you were mentioning the
value systems, those companiesrepresent a value system, their
customers have a value system,that's, but it's all driven by
the shopper or consumers valuesystems.
That has affected all of this,which affects the psychographics
and how the marketing isconducted, as you mentioned
(27:23):
earlier, and I can see how thatwould be so helpful to a big
company acquiring a smallercompany, just learning the
psychographics of that market.
You can even take existingproducts and probably
differentiate new products toappeal to those psychographics.
Michele Meyer (27:45):
Absolutely.
I mean honestly, there werefollow on learnings as well.
When you sort of look at theworkforce and I don't want to
pick on millennials because I'msort of the other end of a
boomer millennial in between butGen Z and all of the new
employees that are coming in,they have different expectations
of a company culture or howthey want to spend their time
(28:07):
and how they want to spend theirday and who they want to work
for.
And bringing in some of thesevery values based but employee
based and values based companiesand seeing how they work
together, and that this is whynew generations are literally
saying I'm going to make achoice to do something that
feels a little moreentrepreneurial or fits my value
(28:28):
system.
Why are they making that choice?
And if we still wanted to becompetitive in the future at
General Mills, how do we want tocreate or need to create that
sense of team even within a?
You know, today General Millsis a $12 billion company.
How do you make it feel likeyou're a $20 million company on
your team, on your brand team,or within your operating unit or
(28:50):
within the US versusinternational?
But you've got to create asense of belonging for people
and it was really interestingjust to see how sort of
culturally values have changedand what employees wanted to
come to work for and how wecould learn that learn those
types of things from a smallcompany that had mastered it,
and how do you want to replicatethat at a big company?
So lots of, lots of learningsthere, for us for sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (29:13):
We know.
I looked up some data on theinternet and I don't know.
I've tried to validate it.
Some of it seems contradictory,but you know.
It's estimating the size of thehealth food market in the
United States to be over $200billion, which is bigger than I
expected it also, I sawestimates that organic was about
(29:37):
$50 billion.
I wasn't sure I thought that'sso.
Health foods $200 billion over$200 billion.
I know they're different.
Michele Meyer (29:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Dr. Matt Waller (29:48):
And then plant based food sales was about $5
billion or $5 to $10 billion.
I saw different estimates, andthat includes things like meat
substitutes, dairy free meals.
That's clearly growndramatically.
And then I started wonderingwell, are there farmers that can
(30:11):
supply this sort of?
Thing, yeah, it seems to me.
You know we've seen farmingconsolidate and yet the demand
for this other type of food isgrowing so dramatically.
You sometimes wonder how dothese meet Right?
(30:31):
Did you ever have trouble?
Michele Meyer (30:32):
Oh, there's trouble.
We absolutely have had thoseconversations at General Mills
over the years, right and just,and maybe just to back up and to
give maybe a little bit oftexture, to sort of understand
the numbers and where those arecoming from.
Health food as a whole couldcertainly include supplements.
It could include organic, right, that could be a part of it.
There's also sort of what wewould call it's not really sort
(30:53):
of a claim term but the naturalfood which is outside of organic
.
So there's natural and organic.
Organic certainly has sort ofthe organic trade association
and, very clearly defined, ithas to meet all these
requirements.
There's another bucket of foodwhich is in there as well, which
is sort of the natural foods,right, and so they may be
non-GMO but they, you know, butthey might or they might just
(31:16):
have certain things like we'regluten free or we are kosher, or
they might have claims, butthey might not meet all the
requirements of non-GMO or theymight not meet all the
requirements of organic.
So all of those types of foodscan bucket and some of them,
even though they call them food,supplements, perhaps could be
(31:36):
thought of within that categoryand that's why that number is so
large and maybe why organic,which is really expensive to
grow and super, super importantto the infrastructure of
consumers.
But that is why I mean organicis tricky from farming and is,
if we were just asking thequestion, is there enough
farmland to operate organic as asegment, if it were to become
(31:59):
as big as the entire healthsegment?
No, we have a lot of issues andthere's so many things, so many
hurdles in organic requiressoil to turn over certain ways
and there's just a lot of rulesaround that.
And there's a clear need forthat, there's no question.
But there's other ways to makeclaims in perhaps a less
strenuous way that still canmeet most or many of the needs
(32:21):
of those consumers who maybedon't want processed food or
don't want mainstream food.
So there's ways to get therethat are less stringent is maybe
not the right way to thinkabout it but have fewer rules
than organic per se, and soyou'll see all of those buckets
in the broader natural andorganic industry.
But to the farming specificquestion, yes, there's no
question.
(32:41):
If you look at, I mean you takeit back even a layer and you
say can the world produce enoughcrops and grains on farmland to
feed the world?
And that is a bad answer aswell.
And then you say for thegrowing need for health foods
and whether it's organic foodsand grains that we want or
(33:01):
whether it's enough to meet eventhe natural requirements.
Right, there's, not, there's.
We've done a lot to mainstreamand combine and work for
efficiency in farming and givethem rebates, and that's
important too, right, becausefarming is really hard and
you're at the mercy of weatherand it's hard to not have a
guaranteed income source, and soI would say I'm not gonna be
(33:25):
the expert here, but I would saythat there are many
agricultural questions andconcerns that we in the US have
to think through, and we alwayshad the Organic Trade
Association day and the Hill.
So we would go up every year toCapitol Hill and we would talk
with lawmakers and we wouldexplain to them how we saw
different buckets growing andwhat we needed in terms of
(33:46):
agriculture and policies andthose sorts of things.
But it's a tricky, it'sdefinitely a tricky topic.
Is there a way to get there?
There needs to be, there has tobe a master plan.
Is there a way to get thereentirely organically?
I would say no, but there areother buckets and there's other
ways to work that.
But in terms of needing morefrom farmland and more ability
(34:07):
to produce food, that'll be asignificant concern in the
coming I would say years, butfor sure decades.
Dr. Matt Waller (34:12):
I'm going forward Well you know, I eat
blueberries, blackberries andraspberries almost every day.
I love them, and I've probablybeen doing that for a few years
now.
But I noticed a couple ofthings recently.
Blueberries have gone way up inprice.
(34:33):
Fresh ones, frozen ones arefine.
There's two types.
There's the wild and thenthere's the other.
The wild are a lot moreexpensive and I thought I don't
know which is better.
How would I know?
And then I looked atraspberries.
(34:54):
I'm talking this week.
All these things have gotten alot more expensive.
Yeah for sure.
And so I'm bringing this in tokind of talk about price a
little bit.
But at any rate.
So the raspberries in the store, the ones that are labeled
organic, were almost not exactly, but almost twice the price of
(35:18):
the other raspberries.
And I picked them up and Ilooked at them and of course I
couldn't tell any difference.
I'm sure there is but twice thedifference.
And when you think about theconsumers today, there's some
consumers that they don't care,they're gonna pick organic no
matter what.
(35:38):
There's some that might wantorganic, but when they look at
their whole basket there's noway right Paying twice that.
And then it's a small littlecontainer of raspberries, oh,
there's no question.
So how do you think about thosemarketing variables?
Particular price in theequities.
Michele Meyer (36:00):
Well, there's definitely so.
You're absolutely right.
There is a price premium or acost premium which drives the
price premium on organic versusnatural or non-GMO and then
certainly versus mainstreamtraditional.
There's no question, and that'sas we talked about.
There's more requirements forthe soil and how you farm and
(36:20):
it's just it's harder to do andthere's more costs involved in
the labor and sort of the timethat it takes to grow and get a
feel ready and all of thosethings.
So those are real costs.
So if you absolutely wantorganic which frankly it's not
the only way to think about it,but it's really pesticide free,
right, and so if you want thatchoice, there is a cost to that
(36:41):
choice and we all know labor hasbeen harder to get Like in
general costs and logistics andtransportation and all of those
things have gone up in additionto the soil requirements that
are happening on organicspecifically.
So things are definitelycosting more.
There's no question, there arebuckets of food items.
I would guess, as you talkedabout the in your basket, are
(37:02):
you gonna make that choice foreverything in your basket?
And oftentimes what we wouldfind when I was with small
planet foods or running smallplanet foods is there are
certain things that I'm notgonna make a trade off on.
So I can wash a strawberry orwash a blackberry, but I can't
necessarily guarantee that Ihave gotten pesticides off right
.
So if I want to, anything thatis literally going straight from
(37:24):
the food in the ground into mysystem, in my body, I don't
wanna make any trade offs right,and you'll oftentimes find, if
I can peel a banana or peel anorange, at least there's a layer
of protection.
But for the types of foodsgrapes and raspberries and
blueberries and strawberries andthose types of things organic
was a choice that they were notgonna sway from right If there
(37:45):
was something that was moreprocessed right.
So center of the store is theorganic important.
Yes, it's important to me.
Is it required when maybe Ican't make ends meet or I can't
afford everything in my basket,so that there would be a
priority pecking order for myfamily and what's in my cart,
(38:07):
starting with the skin on that'sgoing directly into my body,
versus something that I mightpeel, versus something that's in
a box that has been processedin a different way, that maybe I
could just do non-GMO, or maybeI could just do the gluten-free
option here?
And we also found a differentset of requirements if it was
(38:29):
for my kids versus it's justsomething for me or for my
spouse or my partner or whateverthat might be, so consumers
would definitely not make thetrade off, or we're less likely
to make the trade off if it'sfor my kids.
So, hey, these, my kids, areyoung, I'm gonna feed them
Annie's mac and cheese.
I'm gonna get the organic oneIf I'm just going to be, if
(38:49):
we're gonna have mac and cheese,I might do Kraft for myself or
for my partner, but for theyoung developing mind and bodies
, those were harder trade-offs.
So there's definitely apriority of where you would make
those trade-offs.
And then there's certainconsumers, as you mentioned,
that aren't gonna make atrade-off for anything in their
cart, and so I think that's alittle bit of the beauty of
(39:10):
understanding consumersunderstanding what is driving
their purchases, beingincredibly respectful of their
choices and the spending and theright spending power that
they've got versus what theyneed to sustain their individual
life or their family's life andhow many kids they might have
in making sure that you haveenough offerings.
So you would see, annie's, as webought Annie's and brought that
(39:32):
into the General Millsportfolio, who was very, very
they were very clear as a brandto say we always strive for
organic.
But there are gonna be windowswhere we either can't get the
supply that we need and we mightbe made with organic as opposed
to completely organic here, orwe might be 90% organic in this
version of mac and cheese.
(39:52):
And we're gonna be clear wedon't ever wanna mislead you,
but we're gonna be clear in ourjourney to be entirely an
organic portfolio at the time ofwhere we can't get there and
where we have to make atrade-off and it might help you
with your value system or yourpurchasing power as you're
thinking about what you'reputting in your cart, and so all
of those I mean they havecontinued to become more complex
(40:12):
as you think about howexpensive life is and inflation
and the trade-offs that peoplehave to make.
But definitely there's apriority pecking order.
That perhaps has changed alittle bit since I worked on
small planet foods, but that wasvery much where it was at the
time.
Dr. Matt Waller (40:27):
You know, going back to your learning from
founders of companies that youacquired at the big company
General Mills, I would thinkwould translate well for you
into private equity, because youknow, I think there again, just
(40:48):
like a big, successful companymight downplay the value of the
founder of a small companythey're acquiring but you didn't
the same thing happens inprivate equity and I would think
that if you were a founder youwould want a private equity firm
that would value your knowledge, not to say that you know
everything and you know.
(41:10):
Of course, one of the things NewRoad tries to do is to bring a
network and expertise and thesekind of things through operating
partners like yourself, butreally knowing that even though
they may be struggling, there'sstill things they know that are
quite valuable or they wouldn'tbe where they are, you know.
(41:31):
Have you seen that play out inprivate equity as well?
Michele Meyer (41:34):
Absolutely.
I'm a firm believer in thevalue of a founder.
They created, they had aburning passion and desire and,
frankly, they were more.
They were less risk averse thanme, right, because I was not an
entrepreneur, I worked withinthe confines of a big corporate
structure, and so entrepreneursand founders have a great risk
(41:55):
for a vision and what theybelieve and that unmet need.
And I want to create thisproduct because I feel like it
is missing and there areconsumers who really want this,
right, whether it's Lara Barfrom Lara American or whether
it's Quinn Snacks from ChristieLewis or there's so many, so
(42:16):
many options out there.
And I think about what theybring to the table for the first
five to 10 years of a businesscannot be matched in terms of
that founder vision.
There are windows in everycompany as it grows, whether
that bench, it will be differentfor every company, whether it's
20 million in sales or 30million in sales or sometimes
even earlier than that where theskill set of a founder needs
(42:40):
other people around them andoccasionally needs a different
type of management expertise.
So, whether that's brought inthrough operating partners or a
CEO transition, where we stillhave a very clear role for the
founder and we want theminvolved because we know their
expertise and their opinion iscritical and I have seen a
number of different options anddifferent ways to make it work.
(43:03):
So there's usually a windowwhere you wanna bring in an
outside CEO usually right,that's gonna vary.
That's certainly my expertisecomes from a consumer.
There's other industries outthere, but it is always, in my
mind, important to have thefounder and their vision and
their insight a part of what ishappening.
And so, even at, I would say atLara Bar, lara wanted to make
(43:25):
the sale.
It was the right window forthem.
They were $20 million in topline.
Jen Ramilz, of course, came in.
We rolled that into smallplanet foods but we had Lara the
creative director, even thoughshe really wasn't a part of the
advertising agency at all, butwe titled her the creative
director and she, for as long asI was at Jen Ramilz and I still
catch up with her every year atExpo West she is still a part
(43:46):
of the brand because she had theinsight.
She had the belief.
Kristie Lewis is very similar.
Right, she had the insightaround Quinn Snacks.
Quinn is her son and that iswho she created these initial
products for was.
I have kids now and it is reallymeaningful and critical and
important to me and my valuesystem for my family to have I
(44:08):
call them better mousetraps,right, better than the main most
popular offering available.
Right?
What is it that we can createthat is better for you and
whatever the buttons are,whether it's gluten free or it's
non-GMO or it's organic or it'sall of these things what is
that belief system behind thatbrand?
They were the ones with thevision and it gives them a level
(44:28):
.
It gives the brand a level ofauthenticity and just a realness
that you can't necessarily findin big CPG brands.
Right, and there's a place forall of them.
Right, there's a place forTotino's and there's a place for
LaRabar, and there are a placefor Quinn Snacks and Kevin's
natural foods, and in therefrigerated section there's a
place for all of them, becausewe have all of those consumers,
(44:52):
certainly, and understanding andletting those brands grow to
the best of their your abilityand to the best of their
capability is what's criticaland important to me.
Dr. Matt Waller (45:03):
Michelle, you've had a very successful
career, but if you could goright now, if you could all of a
sudden appear before yourselfat the beginning of your career,
oh, that's a tricky one.
Yes.
Michele Meyer (45:17):
What would you tell yourself?
I think there's probably acouple of things, right.
The first one is don't takeyourself so seriously, and I'll
maybe elaborate on these, butdon't take yourself so seriously
, don't worry so much.
Maybe it goes back to, I think,the first question you asked me
, which is trust the process,right.
(45:39):
And then maybe the third bucketwould just be your chapter two,
right, sort of beyond, thecareer that you envisioned is
always evolving, right Up until,in my mind, almost the day that
you die.
Right, your chapter two isevolving and there's all sorts
of things to come at you, and sodon't overthink.
So, if we go to the first one,don't take yourself so seriously
(46:01):
.
I remember coming out ofbusiness school and, oh my
goodness, you just you're likethis is what I have to
contribute and I'm gonna be thebest and I'm gonna work the
hardest in just everything.
And I'm like Michelle, you're aI don't even know what I was
when I started a marketingassistant.
Like, you're very lowly in thisorganization and don't take
yourself so seriously, right?
(46:21):
You come in with all these sortof grand ideas and all the
things that you think that youcan accomplish and you can.
Right, there is a time and aplace for all of them, but just
maybe pausing a bit andlistening.
I remember how I sort of saidit.
It took me almost halfwaythrough my till, halfway through
my career, to recognize thatthe team is just as important as
(46:43):
me and I am, and our team isway better.
We are way better when everyoneis contributing, as opposed to
I have to do it all.
And so I just think, comingsort of straight out of
undergrad to grad school and I'mgonna hit the ground running,
just don't take yourself soseriously and trust the folks
around you.
And that leads into number two,which is just sort of let the
(47:05):
process play out right and justgive it time and recognize that
there are windows for everything.
Someone.
I even remember where I mighthave actually been, an article
that I read early on and it wasa little bit more geared towards
women and the choices thatmaybe you have to make If I'm
gonna have kids, am I stillgonna work, and all of those
(47:27):
different things.
And the concept from thearticle which I might have been
from the Harvard Business Reviewis just this concept of you can
have it all.
You just maybe can't have it atthe same time, and I thought
that was really really goodadvice.
Oh, I know it was actually likethe first five women who
graduated from Harvard BusinessSchool who were interviewed at
(47:48):
the end of their careers andthat was their advice, sort of
back to the new generation thatwas coming and for me, that was
that really landed for me, notuntil probably middle of my
career, but this concept of,like boy, I am married, I have
two kids, I have hats, I haveaging parents, all of the things
that we all have.
(48:09):
Everyone has different,competing priorities and just
sort of let the process play out.
I do want it all, right, we allwant it all.
What all is maybe varies andchanges as you get older, but we
all have windows of.
I do want it all, but thisconcept of it just may not be at
the same time, but you'll getthere right, you'll get it all
(48:30):
and again, all will change interms of a definition.
So maybe that for sort ofbucket number two, I think is
was probably good advice for myyounger self that I really, you
know, heard midway through mycareer but didn't hear at the
beginning.
And then maybe the third bucketis there is a chapter two and
that's gonna evolve and I thinkfor me what I've learned about
(48:53):
myself in sort of this secondwindow is I love to learn and so
I don't know they sort of callthat a bucket of.
I'm a learner and I love newsituations and I don't know that
I would have ever assumed thatI would have bet anything
besides CPG and big.
You know big companies and Ilearned smaller companies and I
learned founders, but that'swhat I was always within the
general males bucket and you canlearn different things, you can
(49:17):
evolve, you can learn differentindustries, you can pick up new
skill sets, you can be a youknow, a mentee, but you can be a
mentor and it's all of thosethings that evolve in chapter
two, right, and your valuesystem might all stay the same,
but that's sort of you can haveit all the all changes, right.
And so maybe those in terms ofpieces of advice are the things
(49:42):
that whether they would havelanded on me at age 24, when I
started at general males, Idon't know right.
So there's sort of a little bitof the give and take there as
well, but I guess that would bethe advice that I would give to
my younger self.
Dr. Matt Waller (49:54):
Thank you so much.
This has been terrific.
I really appreciate you takingtime to join me today and to
share with the audience aboutthis.
Michele Meyer (50:04):
Absolutely Thanks , man.
I enjoyed it and appreciate allthe questions.
Dr. Matt Waller (50:08):
If you're finding value in this podcast.
We greatly appreciate yoursupport by subscribing to our
YouTube channel.
Additionally, following us onApple and Spotify and leaving up
to a five-storey review wouldbe immensely helpful.
We welcome any feedback orquestions related to the podcast
, as well as suggestions forfurther topics and guests.
(50:28):
You can leave your comments onour YouTube channel and rest
assured that I will read eachand every one of them.
Please also take a moment tocheck out our podcast sponsors,
as they play a critical role inkeeping this podcast running.
For more information onspecific topics, timestamps or
links to articles mentionedduring the podcast, head over to
(50:50):
matwallarpodcastcom.
Thank you.
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