Unlocking Golf Excellence: Insights from Dr. Joe LaCaze on Body Mechanics and Rotex Technology

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Measured
Golf Podcast, where we have anew season, which means we have
new guests, and we're very, veryfortunate because we have maybe
one of the most influentialpeople that I've met in the golf
industry industry, and thisperson has done a lot to really

(00:28):
help me not only betterunderstand things that I thought
that I was aware of, but alsohas helped me become more aware
of things that have an impactwithin the golf swing that maybe
I wasn't aware of before.
So this person has just beenawesome, has been a wealth of
knowledge for myself and, inaddition to bringing knowledge
to the table, I think whatreally separates this person is
that they are an applicator andthey are probably the best human

(00:50):
body applicator that I've evermet and they have an awesome
device that actually allows meto do my job better.
And the thing that makes thisdevice so great is that I can
send it home with people, shouldthey choose to buy it, and they
can use it, and they don't needto know what I know about
ground reaction forces or howthe body's put together.
They can just get on this thing.
It's very simple to use andthey can get better at not only

(01:11):
moving, but they can get betterat playing golf.
And the thing that I'm reallygoing to enjoy about this
conversation today is we'redefinitely going to talk about
golf, but more so we're going totalk about how the body kind of
equates to this.
So, without further ado, my manthe absolute baddest dude I've
ever met in my life at 74 yearsof age, spent 22 years as a Navy

(01:32):
SEAL and trainer and do notcall him a civilian, because he
is anything but that and we arevery, very fortunate to be
joined by Dr Joe LaCaze today.
So, doc, how are you doing?
Good morning, thanks forjoining us, bud.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, my pleasure, michael.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for the kindintroduction.
I just attended a Navy SEALreunion out in California and I
would put myself in the lowerpart of the baddest dude on the
planet.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
I got a picture taken with jocko I'll I'll send you
later after the podcast yeah,yeah, that guy's pretty intense
man like I like you because,like I know that you can be
jocko, but you're not jocko allthe time, which is kind of
refreshing you know what?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
my wife, my wife, wants me to be jocko none of the
time.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, yeah yeah, I believe my wife wants me to be
the force play guy none of thetime.
So I totally understand whereyou're coming from.
But I meant what I said.
Joe, and you know me and youhave talked quite a bit and do
talk quite a bit prettyregularly and you know I was
fortunate Mutual acquaintance ofours.
Larry Hamilton invited me to aworkshop that both you and Fast

(02:44):
Eddie Fernandez were doing up atWayne State and you know I've
known about Rotex for years.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
I have.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Like I had a unit not two units that uses a pair.
But I had a unit that somebodyhad given me years ago and I
used it for various things butlike I didn't understand really
the method behind what it doesand because I didn't understand
that method I kind of dismissedit a little bit, to be honest
with you.
So getting the opportunity tocome up to Wayne State because

(03:18):
of Larry and hosting thisamazing workshop that you and
Eddie do together, you know I'msitting there listening and I
obviously was intrigued by theRote.
You know I'm sitting therelistening and I obviously was
intrigued by the Rotex and Iknew that there was something
there that I didn't know.
But I'll always show up andlisten to an old SEAL talk about
things, like it's just adifferent perspective.
So, and Larry invited me andLarry I know Larry really well,

(03:39):
so if he tells me to come it'sgenerally worth my time.
So you know we met and one thingled to another and I agreed
with 99.999% of what you had tosay and we kind of got to the
sticking point.
And this is where I reallythink that your brilliance kind
of shines through, joe is thatwe got to the sticking point on

(03:59):
a particular topic with Eddieand I said you know, I have four
splites.
And you were like really, and Iwas like I can have four
splites here in an hour.
And we had four splites therepretty much within the hour, and
it was just, it was it wasn'tlike I have to prove anything to
you or you have to proveanything to me, it was just like
okay, well, like let's get themon the plates and let's see,

(04:22):
let's see.
Right, you know, and it was likethis really open kind of debate
not even debate, that's thewrong word but it was just this
open learning from everybodyinvolved that was in the room
and it carried on to dinner.
And I've just reallyappreciated that conversation
because not only did I feel likeI impacted maybe Eddie's and

(04:44):
your understanding of what I wastrying to bring to the table,
but I learned a ton in theprocess as well.
So that's the thing I've reallyenjoyed about my time with you.
Man is like we're always tryingto figure out how we can answer
the question a little moresimply without losing the
integrity of what we're tryingto share, and I really do

(05:05):
appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The way I remember it was that,oh, he's actually doing what
you guys say he's doing, and youwere able to prove that to us
on the force plates for sure.
So you're the force plate guy,obviously.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well, you know, I play one on YouTube every now
and then.
So that's you know.
It's just.
I had a great conversation withanother podcast guest yesterday
and we were kind of talkingabout this very thing.
And I am not a Navy SEAL and Ido not know what it is like to

(05:46):
be a Navy SEAL.
I can't pretend to understandwhat that's like, and I'm also
not a professional golfer, eventhough technically I am, because
I do play as a professionalgolfer but I'm not on the PGA
Tour right.
So it's difficult for me toteach people who are way better
than me at doing something.

(06:07):
And if all I have to go on iswhat I know and what I can do
and what I can produce, then I'mgoing to be very limited in my
ability to help golfers who arebetter than me.
And the really cool thing that Ilove about the technology side
of golf is not so much that Ilike the fact that a lot of

(06:28):
people think they can distilleverything down to one data
point.
But for somebody who wants tolearn the ins and outs of how it
actually works, you can do thatand then you can actually teach
yourself a better methodologyand then, when you know it you
can actually hit some of thosesame shots that those tour guys
can hit, and now you've kind oftaught yourself how to do it,

(06:49):
but you've learned it throughtechnique instead of learning it
through digging it out of thedirt Right.
So I just think it adds alittle more clarity to the topic
when we can actually look atthings together.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
For sure, for sure, absolutely, and you kind of hit
upon.
A pet peeve of mine is somebodywill find one data point,
somebody will find one spot inthe body and that will be the
holy grail for them and thenthey will start to teach it.
Just for maybe even a badexample, but every once in a

(07:24):
while I will see something runlike a wildfire through the
internet.
Somebody will see what thepsoas muscle does.
And for everybody that doesn'tknow what the psoas muscle does,
it attaches to your lumbarspine, attaches somewhere on
your femur and basically flexesthe hip.
And then they start calling itthe primal muscles, the most

(07:46):
important muscle in the body,and that's all that person knows
about the body.
And it is so much morecomplicated than that.
And to your point is you're anexpert in what you do, I'm an
expert in what I do.
We have a lot to learn fromeach other, except for how old

(08:10):
are you?

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Michael, I turn 40 in November.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Awesome, well, happy birthday in a couple of months,
right?
Thank you, brother.
As a good age, that's when youfirst start learning.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
But I will tell you.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
I will tell you you do what you do and I know how,
how hard you work atunderstanding what you do and
working, working with yourplayers, um, but I'll tell you
flat right, unless you want tospend 16 20 hours a day for the
rest of your life learning whatI know about the body, you don't
have enough time.

(08:44):
No Right, the same exact thing,me want to learn what you know.
I just don't have enough timeto know exactly what you know.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
So what we have to do is we have to rely upon each
other for the truth, and I thinkthat's what you see a lot with
high performing teams, and youknow we could talk about
different types of teams, butwe'll keep it.
You know, specific to golf andone thing that I don't think
gets talked about very much atall, which is very surprising,
because they they reference itbut they never directly talk

(09:16):
about it.
But when we see a pga tourplayer, there's a team of people
behind them and I really thinkthat that goes overlooked a lot,
because I think what makesScotty Shuffler great is Randy
Smith, and the reason I say thatis because Randy Smith is

(09:36):
really giving a masterclassright now in coaching, and what
I mean by that is that, you know, scotty and Randy have been
together forever, I think sincehe was seven years of age.
So I mean, that is a verystrong bond and that is not a
coconut tree that you want to goabout shaking Right, like there
is a lot of stuff there thatexists between them, a lot of

(09:59):
inferred knowledge, and there'sjust a lot there that you don't
necessarily want to play aroundwith too much because it's such
a strong bond.
However, randy and Scotty gotout on the PGA tour and things
were going fine, but you know,scotty was like really not happy
with his putting and Scottywanted to make more putts.
And you know, I'm sure thatRandy dug in and I bet Randy

(10:22):
went and asked everybody that hecould find what's going on.
You know what I mean.
Like Randy is a no stoneunturned kind of guy, man, like
he's a good Texan, you know.
So like he's out there and he's, like you know, kicking every
rattlesnake and shaking everycactus, trying to find out
what's going on.
And lo and behold, all of asudden Scotty Scheffler has a
putting coach.

(10:43):
He goes over to phil kenyon andit's like, well, wait a minute.
How's randy feel about that?
That must, oh, wait a minutenow.
Uh-oh, we're adding.
You know what I mean, and we'veseen this happen to where we
add pieces to teams and it goesterribly wrong in the past.
But they were so thoughtfulabout it and they had done so
much vetting and so much workbeforehand that when you go out

(11:04):
there any tour event that ScottyScheffler's at, not only are
you going to see him workingwith Phil Kenyon on the putting
green, but you're going to watchRandy standing right over top
of them.
And it's not because he doesn'tthink Phil Kenyon's going to
say something that's smart ortrue.
It's because he wants to makesure that he's learning what
Scotty's learning so thatthey're all getting better

(11:24):
together, so that they can allhelp keep Scotty on the rails
and like dude.
That's magic, that is reallymagic.
And the ego thing is tough, man,because you know, it's very
easy for me to believe that I'velearned all that I've learned
about whatever I know.
It's easy for me to believethat I've learned all that I've
learned about whatever I know.
It's easy for me to believethat I can go and learn a new

(11:46):
topic very quickly and bedangerous.
And the truth is I probablycould and I could kind of triage
things a bit, but when it comesto the real nuts and bolts and
digging in and really having anhonest understanding and
totality of what I'm looking at,I don't have the background.
I just simply don't.
So that's where I need guyslike yourself who actually have
a doctorate.

(12:07):
And the thing that I want toknow about Because for me it's
always been about trying to getas close to the root source of
the knowledge, versus trying tohear it through like playing tin
can and then by the time youhear it it's a diluted message.
So I just love having anopportunity for me personally to
learn from a guy like yourself,because I don't think what you

(12:28):
learned is like you learned alot from a book.
But I think what makes youspecial is most of what you say
and talk about and do doesn'tcome from a book and like that's
that's the application side ofit that I think is kind of
missed a lot.
We think that by knowingsomething smarter than somebody
else, we have an advantage.
But you can have the smartest,most you know awesome brain in

(12:50):
the world, but if you can'texecute the physical part of it
it doesn't really matter.
And like that's where I thinkyou kind of bridge that gap.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I agree.
Getting back to finding thebest people to integrate into
your system as Navy SEALs, wehad a lot of money right, so if
we want to learn climbing, wewould go find the best person in
the world for climbing andfighting the best person in the
world for fighting and freefalling Same thing and shooting

(13:23):
same thing.
We spent three weeks out in thedesert shooting tens of
thousands of rounds and gettingtaught by a master of that art
Everything you can think of.
We went and found the bestperson in the world to teach us
not teaching each other, unlesswe have that in-house, and

(13:53):
sometimes we did but it wasamazing how fast you can become
really, really good when you'relearning from the master, rather
than somebody that learned fromthe master 20 generations
removed.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Oh, it's unreal, and I talked to my young athletes
about this all the time.
Uh, because it really sticksout to me, cause I, like I said,
I turned 40 in November and ittook me eight years to get an
undergrad degree, believe it ornot.
So I was in college for a longtime, uh, and I was not a great
student because, quite frankly,I didn't understand how any of

(14:23):
it mattered, of it mattered, soI just really was not ready for
school when I did it.
However, in eight years of myhigher education that I
completed which is how I like tosay it what I really noticed
was I took a lot of classes andI really, to be perfectly blunt
and honest, there were twoclasses that stuck out to me,

(14:47):
and one was an accounting 101,102 class taught by a guy by the
name of Edmund Fenton, and theother one was like a business
law, business ethics, but it wasmultiple business classes, but
it was taught by the samegentleman by the name of Burke
Christensen, and I remember boththeir names to this day because

(15:07):
, honestly, they made class funfor me.
They were the only two classesI remember anything about from
college and I understand thatthey're way more applicable to
what I do now.
Currently, however, when I wouldgo to those classes, those guys
demanded my respect and theynever said a word, they never

(15:27):
asked for it, they never beggedfor it, they just came in.
They looked professionalbecause they were.
They both were retired from thething they were teaching, right
Like one was a super successfulbusiness lawyer, one was a
super successful accountant, solike they had this world of
experience to go with the bookthat they were teaching from.

(15:48):
And now, all of a sudden, whenwe put knowledge with some
experience, we wind up withwisdom.
And these guys had wisdombecause they had real world
experience.
They were applicators and Imean those classes were fun,
they were engaging, I learned,but the minute that I left the
classroom and I, I and I didn'tdo this very often, but in these
classes I did more so thanothers.

(16:08):
But like when I would open thebook to read the same
information that those gentlemenhad just taught me, it might as
well have been written inChinese, joe.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Most professional books are written by authors for
their peers and to convincetheir peers that they're smarter
than they are Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
That's the truth and I don't disagree with that.
But it was that in my opinionit was that these guys were
masters of the information, likethey could make you see the
forest through the trees and toyour point, kind of right, like
the book is very much the treesbecause it's just conceptual and

(16:55):
it's not tied to anything and Xcan equal Y sometimes, but not
like, and kind of like youstarted your seminar with right,
Like is the book complex or isit complicated?
Yeah exactly, yeah, and mostpeople we won't even go into
that right now.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
That's a complex problem.
So getting back to going toschool, to going to school in in
my second semester of getting adoctorate in chiropractic is I
learned the probably one of thethree most important lessons
I've ever learned in life.
There's a little guy his name'sdr boylston still remember his

(17:36):
name, right?
Uh, let me tell you a funnystory about him.
So back back then he would use,they would use chalk, right,
right, and then and then hewould, he would erase the
chalkboard and everything and hewould always have chalk on his
hands and he was constantlytrying to pull up his his pants,
right, so he'd always be doinglike, like this, not to get

(17:59):
chalk on himself.
But that's one of the things Iremember.
But the most important, one ofthe three most important lessons
I've ever learned, and it willstick with me until the day I
die, is he said unless you canexplain it to an eight-year-old
to where they understand, thenyou don't understand it.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, but you know what it takes to explain
something really complicated toan eight-year-old patience yeah
yeah, that's the hardest thingas a coach, in my opinion.
Like I got somebody said thisto me the other day they and I
don't disagree with you at all,but there's also subject matter
that's not appropriate for aneight-year-old yeah, does that

(18:41):
make sense?

Speaker 2 (18:43):
no, yeah, that that.
That absolutely does make sense.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
But breaking it down to for sure, somebody, the other
day they were like hey, um, youknow, like they came in for a
golf lesson and and they were anice person, but they were a
local person, right, they hadjust like needed a golf lesson
locally, had looked on google,had found me and like come in so
they didn't really know what Ido so they thought they were
going to get a quote, unquotegolf lesson, right, and then

(19:07):
they wind up getting a meatlesson, which is, you know, hey,
like, let's get your bodymoving a little better, and like
that way the club is easier tokind of put into a position.
And I'm like, right, so likethey were kind of like a little
bit upset with that Right.
And they were like, hey, man,upset with that right.
And they were like, hey, man,like I just like want to play
better by league this week.
And I'm like, cool, well, ifyou do this, you will play

(19:28):
better by league this week.
He's like, yeah, but I don'tknow what to do with the club.
And I was like, well, how aboutwe tuck our pelvis?
Because that's going to do waymore good than focusing on where
the club is, because it doesn'tmatter if your pelvis isn't
tucked.
So anyway, long story short, helike says kind of more or less
the same thing you just said tome, and he's like I don't know,
man, like I just need it waysimpler, like I need it like
three-year-old level.

(19:49):
And I looked at him and I saidcan you explain to a
three-year-old why the sky isblue?
And he looked at me and he'slike I don't get it, and I said
look, I can explain to athree-year-old why the sky is
blue and I can describe vaporsand gases and UV rays and
atmosphere, and I can do that.

(20:09):
It takes a lot of patience.
I'm going to get down on myknees and I'm going to hold
their hand and I'm going to walkthem through it and I'm going
to let them ask me a millionfreaking questions because they
don't know what any of thatmeans, and it's going to take us
about an hour, but I can do it.
What, what any of that means?
And it's going to take us aboutan hour, but I can do it.
What I'm doing for you is,instead of treating you like a
three-year-old, I'm giving youthe one thing you got to do and

(20:31):
that way you can just focus onthe one thing.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
I agree with that, you know, and it's it's like
people they they're not used to.
In my opinion, I think peopleare used to being sold a bill of
goods that just simply isn'tgoing to work.
You know, I think so manypeople because of and I'm not
trying to throw YouTube orsocial media under the bus,
because I think it's a greattool if we use it correctly but
so many people are using thosetools to like sell the quick fix

(20:58):
and the consumer, the golfer,is just convinced that they're
like one swing tip away frombeing Scotty Scheffler and it's
just not the case.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, I lost a lot of respect for a fellow that I had
a lot of respect for when Iheard him say do this one swing
tip that I have, pay for thisone swing tip that I have, and
you'll never hit a bad shotagain.
Well, I just saw ScottyScheffler hit a bad shot the
other day, every day, everysingle round.

(21:31):
So how can you say somethinglike that?

Speaker 1 (21:34):
I don't know.
I mean I just the thing thatI've really been trying to
figure this out, because everyguy or girl that I talk to
that's in the business.
You know there's always likeyou get to the point in the
conversation where there's likea little bit of frustration that
shows through.
And I don't honestly think thatthe coaches and the PTs and the
practitioners are upset withtheir clients.

(21:57):
I just think that they're upsetat the industry that they work
in.
Because, honestly, you know,what I try to offer people is
red pill, blue pill, and youknow, if you don't understand
the matrix reference,essentially Neil Neo could pick
to know the truth and to wake upfrom the matrix.
Or he could take the blue pilland go back to sleep and wake up

(22:19):
in the matrix and just stay inthe matrix forever.
And I understand that theindustry is constantly selling a
golf or something.
It is an industry which meansthere are businesses in it and
they exist to sell and makemoney and like that's okay as
long as people understand thatat face value.

(22:40):
But I don't think a lot of thestewards of the game right now,
because they're all businesses,I don't think anybody's taking a
long-term approach to the gameand looking at it from a how do
we actually grow this and makeit better for the next
generation?
We're just trying to keep itafloat for the next generation
most of the time, and that'sdefinitely what we were doing

(23:01):
before the COVID boom happened.
We were like golf was on lifesupport prior to COVID.
So it's just I don't understandwhy there's people like you in
the world and it's like I'vewatched what you do.
I've watched people have likeevery time somebody gets around
you, they have a light bulbmoment and like that's the
opportunity for somebody to getbetter, because most people,

(23:25):
like physically, don't swing thegolf club that poorly.
They just have really, reallybad concepts that force them to
try to do things that they wouldotherwise never try to do.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yep.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, so Rotex I want to get into it.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
You know, have you ever figured out what Rotex
means?
I'll give you a clue it meansrotational exercise.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
I was going to say rotary exercise, but I was like
that's way too simple.
It felt like a trap question.
Yeah, so yeah go ahead, yeah, so, yeah, go ahead.
So I mean, I'm just I know thestory.
You probably should share likethe quick version of the story,
like what led to the Rotex,because not everybody knows what
I know.
But I think that that obviouslyis a good point to kind of

(24:18):
start with.
But from there I would kind oflike you maybe to just kind of
roll on into you know what are.
Like as objectively as you canand you're a fairly objective
guy, but like as objectively asyou can kind of maybe talk a
little bit about what's it liketo like wake up in the morning
as the owner of a product andthen just like see social media

(24:41):
flooded with it and then see thesuccess stories that you guys
are obviously having, obviouslywith Eddie just having all this
success at the world long drivechampionship, um, I mean, it's
just talk a little bit not onlyabout what led to it, but that's
the beginning, obviously.
But then take us current dayand kind of what you're seeing
in the results look like and theimpact that you're having.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, so what led to it was my own body and 22 years
as the Navy SEAL, and really Iwould have stayed for 30 or 35
years.
I was having a lot of fun, butto this day, and I immediately
got out of SEAL team at 22 yearsbecause of an issue that I had

(25:25):
low back pain and sciatica.
It's the worst case that I'veseen to this day and I've seen
thousands, thousands of people.
So it was at one point, nearlysuicidal.
It was 24 hour a day.
There was no relief for it.
There was no drug that I couldtake.

(25:46):
I couldn't sleep at all forweeks at a time.
So what?
By the way, I'll just mentionmy injuries really quickly.
We don't have enough time onthis podcast to mention them all

(26:12):
, but I could show you you brokeeverybody.
Yeah, I could show x-rays ofpeople like have three major
concussions a broken neck,broken back severely, contused
femur, I thought the Seals justplayed beach volleyball all the
time Like how do you get allthose injuries?

(26:32):
And, by the way and by the way,I was champion beach volleyball
player in Virginia Beach whenyou're at the Open.
So anyhow, that goes back aways.
So anyhow, I've got all theseinjuries in my body right
Cumulative effect.
And then they all came crashingdown to me when I was working
at a desk job in the Pentagon in1991.

(26:58):
So I got out, went tochiropractic school to learn my
own body and I learned what thebooks teach us right.
But when I got into practice,what was my learning moment was
watching people that would comein with excruciating back pain.

(27:21):
I'm in with excruciating backpain.
I'm talking about like theywould ride in the back of an SUV
laying down with their wife'sdriving a man or other way
around.
They would walk in with help.
And so I have one of thesetables where you could stand up
backwards and it would lower thepatient down to a parallel
position to the ground, to aparallel position to the ground.

(27:48):
And I noticed that these peopleeither had one leg rotated
outward or both of them.
Every single case, 100% of thecases, with people with severe
low back pain where they werelocked up, they couldn't move,
their hips were rotated out,couldn't move, their hips were

(28:10):
rotated out.
So same guy, Dr Boylston,taught me another important
lesson, right is that thegluteus medius, which is an
internal and external, butmostly internal.
He taught us that it was theonly pure internal rotator of
the hip and that came back to mewhen I had my own issue of
severe low back pain and Istarted thinking about that.

(28:33):
And then at four o'clock in themorning, Lafayette, Louisiana,
four o'clock in the morning, Iwoke up like this and it had
come to me and I rushed to myclinic and I started messing
around with a Frisbee and I tieda big Frisbee and I tied a band
to the wall and I startedworking in it and luckily nobody

(28:56):
was in the office because theystarted screaming like a maniac.
I've got it.
I have the answer to what do?
My own issue.
And so everything evolved fromthere I start, luckily.
Have you, michael, you everwritten a?
Have you ever read a bookcalled the talent code?

Speaker 1 (29:16):
I think I've read parts of it.
I don't think I've read thewhole book, though yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
So just to explain to the to the listeners talent
code is talking about.
There are pockets in the world,for example, no reason in the
world besides that they learn torun barefoot.
I think that's huge, but noreason in the world why Jamaica
should have dominated the worldfor 16 years in sprinting.

(29:43):
No reason in the world exceptfor coaching, except for
coaching.
Same thing with, like NovakDjokovic, right and where he is
from.
There's pockets of people incoaching that just dominate
their sport for a long, longtime.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Australia is a great example of that.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, absolutely, and swimming too, right.
So, anyhow, I was living in anarea and still to this day
they're my best friends.
I found a stainless steelmanufacturer who was one of my
patients, and I found theplastic manufacturer, who was
his best friend, that he playedcollege baseball with, and those

(30:30):
are the people that I consultedwith to build the machines that
we built.
The first one was like what wecall the white elephant.
It is unbelievable forhospitals and PT clinics.
It's got big handlebars.
Have you ever seen the firstone that we have?
I don't think I've seen a Gen 1,no, it's like 85 pounds has one

(30:52):
disc in the middle slanted.
You can hold on to thehandrails.
Really really good forhandicapped people and people
that have severe low back pain,but not good for the market.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
I don't know if it's a polite question.
It might not be.
Just tell me, how many units doyou think you've put out into
the world?

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Oh gosh, Over 10,000.
That's amazing.
That really is amazing With themom and pop organization that
we have and we don't do we'venever done any traditional
advertising, just basically wordof mouth and social media.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Joe, I can't.
I mean, I travel a good amountto a lot of facilities and know
that and I honestly can'tremember walking into a facility
and not seeing Rotex there,like I.
Just because most of the placesI go obviously I have like a
DPT or some kind of physiocomponent to the business as
well and it's like I just can't,you know, think of a place that

(31:56):
I've been at that doesn't havethe Rotex.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, I know, and like somebody sent me a video
not too long ago at MichiganNational Champions, right,
talking through the gym and thenjust going up the stairs, and
he never mentioned it.
But going up to the stairs totheir top room, there are like
eight sets of Rotex along thewall wall.

(32:30):
So, anyhow, I I've been sofortunate to meet and I don't
want to call them social mediainfluencers, I want to talk,
tell you like real influencers,like I worked.
I worked with the New OrleansSaints and they had those big
monstrosity machines and so whenother teams would go play the
Saints, they would use theirweight room and they'd go what

(32:52):
are these things right?
They'd see somebody named DrewBrees or Colston or Sproles or
somebody like that using them.
What is this thing right?
And so then that team wouldorder them and so then it goes,
runs rampant.
Same thing with major leaguebaseball, same thing with with

(33:14):
uh, nba, um.
So people see them that way.
But getting on to golf, rightreal quick before we get on to
golf.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah yeah, because I haven't told you this.
I was hanging on to it and I'mnot allowed to take photos when
I'm there, because I would havealready sent you the photo.
I now have a really good otheruse that maybe you are unaware
of for the Rotex.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
Okay, i'll….

Speaker 1 (33:42):
NFL lineman Okay, oh yeah yeah, nfl linemen launching
off those yeah, oh, really howabout that?

Speaker 2 (33:53):
yeah, we might have to go back and uh and start
making the stainless steelmodels again.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
We might have to but like I'll tell you what, joe,
like what you turn me on to, andlet's, we'll finish up with
rotex here in just a second withgolf, but but like what you
turned me onto with the spirallines, I'm, I'm convinced man,
like that.
I mean, I know we already saidlike talking about one thing and
thinking that's the whole thingis like, but the spiral line

(34:21):
really isn't one thing, it's awhole lot of things.
It's just a way to kind of lookat it as one unit or one
structure, right.
So I think, like what youshowed me with that and then
getting people to understand,like how the legs like everybody
thinks their legs bend and push, and like we actually want to
twist our legs and push, so it'sjust like pretty crazy.

(34:44):
So anyway, let's pick it backup with the Rotex and the golf.
But I did want to tell you NFLlinemen are standing on those
things and launching into otherhuman beings off of those things
.
So the durability on thosethings is crazy good, because we
thought we'd break them forsure, but luckily they've held
together.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, as long as we remember to place the arch of
the foot right in the middlerather than on the side or
whatever.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
And by the way, just for the record, if anybody is
listening to this and gettingideas, they are not wearing
their spikes when we're doingthis.
They are wearing trainers?
They're not wearing theiractual like cleats.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, and really and truly, if we were to take it to
the basic model and it's notpractical to do do this, but I
would be having a bare foot yeah, for sure, for sure, yeah, so,
um, anyway, getting getting backto how it evolved in golf,
right it?

(35:41):
It never was invented for golf.
Never was invented for golf.
It was meant it was inventedfor the human body, uh, but it's
taken on a life of its own ingolf.
And it's so easy for me to dosocial media because I all I got
to do.
Like, last night we posted a uh, a video of in korea they had

(36:04):
this huge stage and they hadthat was.
I saw that this morning when Iwoke up.
I'm glad you brought that dude.
That was so cool.
I saw that.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
This morning when I woke up.
I'm glad you brought that Dude.
That was so cool yeah.
If you don't follow Dr Joe.
It's at Rotex Motion and I hope, if you're listening to this,
just take a quick moment andlook him up on Instagram, Give
him a follow real quick at RotexMotion.
But, more importantly, I wantyou to see this post because

(36:29):
what he's talking about I mean,there's what like maybe 50
people on that stage show- yeah,yeah, yeah, for sure yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah, I mean it's amazing.
Yeah, it is amazing.
Yeah, we if, if we get a chance, we could talk a little bit
about how that all came about.
Yeah, but go with it, but gowith it.
Go with it, yeah, so.
So I get a call from this guyand it's at J W L, seven to six,

(37:00):
and his name is John Woo Lee,and I will tell you something
about John Woo Woo Lee.
He was, he's, 100% Korean, buthis dad died when he was young
and his mom was 100% Korean too,but he grew up in Guam and he
speaks as good, or better,english than we do.

(37:22):
So, anyhow, he said I'd like tolearn about Rotex.
I said, okay, I got a mastercourse.
You take the course.
Take the master course and thenyou'll know everything.
You know, I did not know what Iwas getting myself into.
First of all, it's 14 hoursdifference.
He was asking me questions likeyou would not believe, for 10

(37:49):
questions a day for like sixmonths, and so we developed this
relationship.
I ended up going over to SouthKorea and spending 11 days over
there giving six seminars andeverything, and we found a
distributor over there that theypurchased large amounts of
machines at a time, and then nowJW that's his nickname, by the

(38:15):
way.
Interesting fact If you dobusiness with the United States,
you have to have an Englishnickname.
It's by law.
You have to have an English.
Yeah, it can't be Jong, really,you have to have an English.
Yeah, it can't be Chong, right,you have to, so anyhow.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
I always wondered why that is that way, and now I
know.
Ok, thank you.
Now I look at this.
I learned something new today.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Ok, cool, by law, right, when we were developing
our contract with him.
So, so, anyhow, he has given inthe 90s seminars, weekend
seminars, full weekend seminarsin the three years we've been
associated to five people.

(39:00):
That's the maximum he will take, right?
But he has 40 facilities thatare certified in Rotex now,
facilities that are certified inRotex now.
And the thing about South Koreais that you can drive from any
part of that country to anyother part in five hours, right?
So if somebody's given aseminar, they are crazy for

(39:21):
knowledge over there about golf,crazy for it, and people do not
.
I'm going.
You know he doesn't onlyrepresent Rotex, he's an
information broker.
He does everything, right.
So, anyhow, I said, how can youhave a seminar like every
weekend and have it filled tocapacity on putting on, you know

(39:47):
, full swing or whatever,because it just happens that way
.
So, anyhow, enough, enoughabout Korea.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
That's crazy, I mean, and it's, it's, it's just so
interesting to me.
Like you know, I've beenfortunate and been outside the
United States and played golfoutside the United States and
it's just, golf is so much isviewed so much differently
within the United States.
And I'm not saying it's notwrong, like if you pay your

(40:16):
greens fees and you can keep upwith the group in front of you,
by all means, man, you're morethan welcome and you should be
there, like I don't have anyproblem with that.
I don't care what your skilllevel is, I don't care what your
socioeconomic level is, I don'tcare about any of that stuff.
If you can keep up with thegroup in front of you, play golf

(40:36):
, I have no problem with that.
However, there is kind of been abig influx, in my opinion, of
people who seem to be confusedbetween what golf is and
tailgating and they seem to bewanting to show up to the golf
course and tailgate and it's.
It's really.
It's becoming less about theskill and more about the

(40:59):
experience and my whole thing isis like when I look at golf
outside of the United States,like when I sit down and and
after a round of golf with guysover in the UK, for example,
like dude they're talking aboutlike, oh man, you know this shot
here.
I got to work on that a littlebit more because I don't quite
have it just yet and and I gotto, I got to get with my physio

(41:21):
because I got a little bit ofpain here in my and it's like
they're all in right, like theyunderstand that golf is this
thing, that it's not just showup and it works, like you got to
work at it a little bit andthey take a little better and I
get it.
And Europe, like working out, isway more kind of a lifestyle
that you never choose.
It's just kind of baked intothe culture.
However, it's just.

(41:41):
I don't understand why everygolfer looks at every new driver
they buy over 10 years and isconvinced that the company sold
them a bad bill of goods, whenin reality they look in the
mirror every day and over thesame 10 years you know they
haven't done anything to helptheir body, they haven't done
anything to increase their speedor their mobility and it's like

(42:02):
they they can't seem tounderstand why they're not
hitting the ball as far as theyused to.
It's just mind mind boggling.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
Before I continue, I'll bringup one of my favorite points.
I think it was Proteus thatcame out and said that it's been
proven that the older that youget, the more you're going to
drop off in distance this muchevery year.

(42:32):
I'm waiting.
You're pretty athletic.
I'm waiting.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
And you're pretty athletic, joe, I just listen.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Two days ago, I was watching a podcast of Justin
James, who's a really goodfriend of mine, and Justin is a
great guy, great guy, and MikeMalaska right, and I was going
yeah, I've worked with Justinfor a long time.
I was actually out working withMike Malaska and I'm not going

(43:06):
to learn anything, I'm justgoing to listen to this thing.
I learned something that Iimmediately gained 20 yards from
.
That's why I'm interested incoming to see you soon, right,
because I immediately gained 20yards from it and, by the way, I
was I was a day older when Iwhen I tried it immediately.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
It was crazy.
I get so frustrated because,you know, and this is what I see
a lot right, I see way morenormal people than I see tour
players, like.
Let's be honest about thatfirst off, right, I'm not
talking specifically aboutworld-class athletes and I'm now
not talking about people whoare playing college golf or

(43:49):
young people.
I'm talking about the corelisteners to this podcast who
look a lot more like me and youthan they do like they're 18.
So if we're talking about thatperson, what I tend to see is
that that person has a very busylife.
They have a career, they have afamily, they have

(44:10):
responsibilities.
Like golf is something thatthey do.
It isn't who they are, it'sjust something that they
probably did prior to all thoseother things and they're kind of
hanging on for dear life whilethe kids grow up and trying to
still play a little bit of golfand they like want to play a
little better because it's alittle sideways, because they
don't have much time to practiceand play.

(44:30):
So I see that guy routinely andthe reason I'm saying guys
because it mostly is a guy.
I mean I do teach women as well, but it's mostly guys that I'm
talking about here.
That are, you know, fromanywhere from 30 to, you know,
80 years old.
So when we're talking aboutthat person and I have them hit

(44:52):
some golf shots and then I putit on the force plates and I put
it on 3D and I take some video,and I do all that stuff when I
ask them some questions to startwith, because I have no idea
what we're trying to fix untilthey tell me what the problem is
.
Now, granted, I can figure outwhat some problems are, but I
need to know what they need tochange to actually feel better

(45:14):
about their golf game.
So, like, when I'm asking themquestions and talking to them
generally, like, I'll just handthem my hand and whatever I
recorded with, like normally,the mouse or whatever, and I'll
go okay, here, take, take thismouse and go through your golf
swing for me, tell me what youlike and tell me what you don't
like.
Right Like.
And they all hate it.
Everybody hates their golfswing Like.
Nobody likes their golf swing,right Like.

(45:35):
I've learned that.
And the other thing I'velearned is that they hate it
because they have some idea ofwhat the golf club should look
like at the top of the swing orat some certain position in the
golf swing and because theydon't achieve that, they think
that they, like, don't moveright.
They think that they're messedup.
They think that they've got allthese problems and maybe

(45:56):
they've done some assessmentsand the assessments say they're
weak in these certain areas andthey're convinced that those two
things are related, whateverthe case may be, but my problem
with it is this If we look atthe PGA Tour and that's how most
people kind of look at golf,right, like we watch golf on TV
but if you look at golf on thePGA Tour, joe, you're going to

(46:17):
see probably as many differentgolf swings as you see players
in the field that week.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Like a fingerprint.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah, right, and they talk about that all the time
So-and-so swing looks like thisand so-and-so swings looks like
that and like I get that right.
But if we looked at it frommore of a kinesiology standpoint
or viewpoint, what we wouldfind is that, you know, most
good players that are on thatlevel are probably doing more
similar than they are different.

(46:46):
If we actually look at how thejoints and the joint segments
are moving and we look at howmuch they're rotating within
their range of motion, they'rebasically doing all the same
things, just to lesser or moredegrees, based off their ranges
of motion and based off thelength of those joint segments
different rhythm and differentuh uh release sequence.

(47:11):
Yeah, yeah for sure, but more orless like they're kind of doing
what they do, right, yeah, andit's like I just want to help
the golfers understand like thenormal we're going back to
normal golfers.
I just want to help like thenormal golfers understand that.
Hey, hey, how about this?
How about, instead of trying toget the club around you and

(47:33):
shallow and up, which reallyscrews up your right shoulder
and gets it externally rotated,how about we focus on getting
your right shoulders to stayinternally rotated a little bit
more in the backswing and thenlet's see what position that
creates, because that positionactually works for you, instead
of trying to get to thisposition that you're never going
to be able to get to because ofyour ranges of motion and other

(47:56):
things that I mentioned.
And, more importantly, if youget to that position, what are
you going to do from there?

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Yeah, exactly yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
If you have an externally rotated shoulder on
the way back, it's going to bereally hard to re kind of or I'm
sorry, it's gonna be reallyhard to transition that back
into a forward motion withoutsending it across the plane, If
you believe in planes.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah and that.
Well, I won't even, I won'teven talk about planes.
Yeah, I hate that word, but it'sjust the word people call them
no, but yeah, whatever you callit, it's the same thing Right.

(48:43):
What we agree upon right isthere are seven or eight if you
count.
One particular thing learningstyles right, and I've heard in
your industry forever feel isnot real, but when you get on

(49:06):
the golf course, that's all yougot, all you got Right.
So, anyhow, with with Rotex andI think why it took a life of
its own within golf is becausethe instructor or the player can
actually duplicate orcommunicate through.

(49:35):
If you do this right here, youwill have the exact same feel
that I want you to have.
It's so simple, so simple.
You know, and you and I knowwhat the cuboid bone is.
We won't talk much about that,but there's a, there's a key
bone in the foot.
It has six sides T-bone in thefoot.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
It has six sides.
It's not the heel.
By the way, if anybody'slistening, the cuboid is not a
fancy word for the heel.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
I promise you it's not the heel, it's not the
calcaneus.
Yeah, so it has six sides, 12edges and eight vortices, and
for people unfamiliar with whatvortices means points of
rotation, it is a magic bone inthe foot right.
We're not going to be able toexplain that to an

(50:18):
eight-year-old, simply right, ora 12-year-old or a 75-year-old
right.
So what we need to do is weneed to tell them here it is,
touch it Right.
Right, take your shoe off.
I'm going to touch it Becauselisten, we mentioned Larry
Hamilton before, right, we hadgiven two days of seminars.

(50:42):
Eddie and I went over to hisplace and went over to Wayne
State and had a seminar, andthen I talked to him later and
he was showing me where it wasNowhere close, right.
So we have to touch it, showthem where it is Right, get them
on Rotex and have them findthat feel on Rotex.
You can't miss it.

(51:02):
You cannot miss it on Rotex.
Right, because you cannot missit.
Right because you cannot missit.
That's one of my favoritethings about rotix is that you
can put people in positions likewhen you're standing on two
rotix facing the wall with ahand tail and you turn, you turn
.
You can't get in the wrongposition, you cannot get into

(51:24):
the wrong position.
That that's one of the the neatthings about.
But you can teach people thefeels that you want them to feel
right.
And then there's an, there's anaha moment across, you know,
across communication lines.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
I'm going to forget that we're on a podcast for a
minute.
I'm just going to do what wenormally do when we're on the
phone together, kind of likethis, which is this basically
just feels like what we normallydo anyway.
But you know, I really stronglybelieve that what you hear in
your head, that voice, and whatwe think is communicating with

(52:01):
our body on our behalf, and thatkind of active signal that
we're using, that's our, I trulybelieve, from what I understand
, that's our interface for ournervous system, and it's not a
perfect interface and, as amatter of fact, it's about like
windows 95.
It's a little slow and a littleerratic and sometimes doesn't
work nearly as good as we wantit to.
So, with that being said, I'mgoing to throw something at you.

(52:25):
I don't really like.
Every golfer that I've ever metthat's taken a golf lesson for
me really wants to get better,right, that's the reason they
come to see you.
That's the only reason they come.
It's not because of my goodlooks, it's not because of my
charming personality, it'sbecause they want to get better
at golf.
Okay, so the thing is is likethey typically know what it is.

(52:52):
That is the problem.
They are maybe can't explain itvery well, maybe can't
demonstrate it very well, butthey can kind of more or less
beat around the bush with you agood amount about what they
think their problem is right.
So the thing is is like they'rekind of aware of it and they've
obviously put some time intothis and some resources into
this.

(53:12):
So why isn't that thingchanging?
Why isn't that thing going away?
And the reason, in my opinion,is because the thing that people
typically hate the most abouttheir golf swing, that look or
that position or whatever youwant to call it it tends to be
their athleticism showing off,Because if they didn't do that
thing, they would probably missthe golf ball because their

(53:33):
body's in such a bad position,which is why they're doing weird
things.
But more importantly and this isthe thing I kind of want to
throw at you I kind of amteaching two people at the same
time.
When I coach and I trulybelieve this and I'm very
actively aware of this theperson that I'm dealing with,
the personality that I'm dealingwith, wants to be in agreement

(53:57):
and wants to get better.
However, there's this reallykind of pain in the ass, voice
in the back of their head that'slike I'm not doing that.
I know how to do this alreadyand when the jukebox says play
golf swing, I pull album golfswing and I play golf swing.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, I know that person, michael.
I know that person that theywant your help, but then they
tell you this is what I do, thisis what works for me.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
It ain't working.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
It ain't working.
Shut up and listen.
So here's what I think.
This is what worked for me.
It doesn't work.
Shut up and listen.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
I don't think it's themactively trying to refute me,
because that would not make anysense.
Like why would you pay money andlike go somewhere and then not
listen to the guy?
Like that doesn't make anysense.
I think that what I've got todo is I've got to keep the
active voice in your head, yourpersonality.

(54:50):
I have to keep that guyentertained a little bit.
And then what I have to do is Ihave to find a way to, while
I'm entertaining and look overhere, I have to have a heart to
heart with the nervous systemand I don't know what the
nervous system knows, becausethe nervous system only knows
what it felt.

(55:11):
It has no like conceptualunderstanding of anything.
It only knows what it's beentaught and trained to do, and it
has been taught and trained todo this thing.
We want to change a whole heckof a lot more than we're going
to talk about this new thing.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
By the way, I just want to bring out something that
you just said that people needto know.
You don't change anything.
What you do is you create a newprogram.
There is no getting rid of theold program.
It's in there to stay.
Try to teach somebody how tonot ride a bicycle.

(55:49):
It's impossible, right?
There is nothing you can do tochange or delete a program.
You have to build an entirelynew program, correct, and you
have to practice it enough towhere it becomes the preferred
program.
But those old programs, they'rethere forever.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
So here's the magic right.
And here we go back to Rotex.
So I need to like, pull amagician trick over here and get
you to look at this hand whileI use my right hand over here if
you're not watching to use theRotex device, because you're
exactly correct, I can create afeeling and, more importantly, I

(56:32):
cannot describe somebody'sfeelings to them because I don't
feel them the same way.
However, to your point, I canput somebody on the Rotex, I can
get them set up on it properlyand I can put them into a
position, not from a looksperspective, but from a

(56:53):
kinesiology kind of point ofview perspective.
I can get them into thisposition.
And now they're like whoa, I'venever done that in my life.
And I go, I know, and theirnervous system and the
background is like what's this?
Well, wait a minute, I'm nothurt, wait a minute, I'm loaded.
Wait a minute, that stretchfeels kind of good.

(57:13):
Wait a minute Like, oh, thecobwebs are kind of shaken out a
little bit.
And now it's like we have atleast played that new program at
least once for the nervoussystem and now it at least
understands that there is morerange of motion without causing
injury to the system and likenow, all of a sudden, you can

(57:34):
have these breakthroughs,because people are always going
to kind of creep up on it.
Creep up on it because theydon't know if it's safe.
But we can put them into thesefull ranges of motion.
And now, all of a sudden, likethe nervous system's like going
nuts, like whoa, this is wild,but that's kind of what you need
if you're going to elicit atleast the opportunity for a
change right.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Yeah, you explain that, Michael.
I just want to say you explainthat as well as anybody that
I've ever heard.
That's awesome yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Yeah, but it's what you have to do.
And I always tell people like Ihave a no alcohol policy on the
day of a lesson.
I don't care who you are, Idon't care like what you do, I
don't care if you're 55 yearsold.
Look, if you're coming for agolf lesson with me and you want
to get value for your money,I'm going to give you the best
information I can possibly giveyou.

(58:24):
I'm going to give you what Itruly believe to be the thing
that's going to help you.
But at the end of the day, mylesson, my information, doesn't
set in until you're at home,asleep in bed and REM cycle,
because that's when that nervoussystem gets to come out and

(58:44):
kind of rebuild the roads.
And I always tell people my jobis to create new land.
Like my job is to create newland, I'm trying to go into the
swamp and fill it full of sandand dry it up and now I can
build a new community.
Like this is what I'm trying todo as a golf coach.
But the thing is is like I'mgoing to give you the plans in
the meeting for the community,but you've got to let the

(59:04):
utility company know that you'regetting ready to do this so
they can put the utilities in,so that your nice new house has
plumbing.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Absolutely, and so everybody understands completely
what you just said a no alcoholpolicy the complete day of the
lesson.
Because if you drink alcohol,then it takes five hours before
you actually get sleep.
Once you think you're asleep,your body does not sleep that's

(59:35):
been proven over and over againuntil your body completely gets
rid of the alcohol and then youwill start to sleep.
So that would that would make alot of sense.
No alcohol the entire day ofthe lesson, uh, even when they
get home or whatever.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
It just destroys sleep, you know.
And like it's a hard thing,right?
Like you know, alcohol is verycommon in our society.
I'm not saying there's anythingwrong with moderate drinking
and things like that, like Idon't have a beef against
alcohol, but like people don'trealize how much that affects
their sleep.
And then the other thing too isis like people don't understand

(01:00:14):
that their sleep affects everyother function of their life.
So for us, you know, we feelvery strongly and I know you
agree, but me and Aram aretrainer at smash factor
performance that we have inhouse here at measured golf.
Uh, but Aram and I talk all thetime about this and it's like
you know, if you're serious,like if you're going to be

(01:00:35):
serious, you're not going tofight us on the whoop, and like
we always kind of know who we'redealing with based off that
alone.
Because like if you're going tofight us on the whoop, then
you're not going to do thebreathing work we're going to
ask you to do with the NeuroPeakPro, and like those two things
alone are what make ussuccessful at what we do.
Because, honestly, man, justgetting like young people to

(01:00:57):
show up like well-rested,they're going to perform great.
Like young people are verycapable of performing at high
levels.
It's just young peopletypically are going a million
miles an hour and superscattered and they can't focus
long enough to do that greatthing.
So, getting people to get somesleep, let their REM cycle kick
in, let some restorative workkind of happen on the nervous

(01:01:19):
system I think that's alwaysgoing to be in their best case
scenario.
And then the other thing that Ithink is probably our biggest
weapon and I'm not hiding it soif you're listening is the
NeuroPeak Pro and getting peopleto learn how important
breathing is Because I know thatthe SEALs really talk a lot
about that breathing stuffbecause it really does control

(01:01:40):
the speed at which the operatingsystem can operate.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Okay, so I'm going to give you a little story about
breathing, since you mentionedbreathing.
So, uh, I'm not going to takeany credit for eddie's success
at all, although in 2022, um andI was standing right there at
the world championships when hewon his second uh, senior world
long drive championship, right,I think it was his second set.

(01:02:08):
He hit a ball right in themiddle of the grid and he turned
around, looked at me and I said, yeah, that that was it right,
um, and so, anyhow, as he'swalking off the grid back to go
practice some more, gettingready for his next set, they say
and eddie, eddie fernandez, nopoints out of bounds.

(01:02:30):
And he went nuts, he wentabsolutely, absolutely ballistic
, right, and he was continuingto do that.
You know, he, doc, I can't, Ican't understand it.
You know that they didn't findthat ball right.
So, anyhow, I, I, he was likethat for like another 15 minutes

(01:02:50):
and I said Eddie, do you wantto win this championship or you
just want to bitch about themnot finding your ball Right?
I said it's gone.
I said I'm going to teach yousomething right now that I want
you to do, and I'm going toteach you how to, how to breathe
.
And, by the way, there's a lotof of information, even by a
couple of experts that I have alot of respect for, and they're

(01:03:13):
teaching it the wrong way.
And I'll tell you thedifference, okay, anyhow, he won
that championship.
He won seven more times thenext year until he hurt his, had
to have a surgery on a hipflexor, and then he just won, uh
, the uh, war long drivechampionship.
And then he just won theWarlong Drive Championship this
year.
And he's done that breathingtechnique every single event,

(01:03:35):
right?
So here's what's being taught,okay, in SEAL Team we call it
double tap, and what double tapmeans is when you're firing a
bullet, you won't go bap, you gobap, like that, right.
Firing a bullet, you won't go,you go, like that, right.
So double tap means you'llbreathe in all your breath at
once and then you'll breathe ina little like you can't breathe

(01:03:57):
in anymore, and then you go alittle bit more and then you'll
slowly breathe it out.
Right?
What's being taught?
That's not right.
Okay, is you do it through yournose, right?
You do it through your nose,right?
You do it through your nose,except for you do it with your
diaphragm.
It comes through your nose.
If you do it with your nose,watch what happens to my
shoulders.

(01:04:17):
They come up.
There's muscles in your neckcalled the scalene muscle that
makes that tight, right.
What you do is you let it comein through your nose, but you
breathe with your diaphragm likethis, and then, a little bit
more, breathe it all out to thecount of eight.

(01:04:38):
What that does is two things.
The first one breathing withyour nose it actually activates
your sympathetic nervous system,making you more nervous and
more tight.
The second one breathing fromyour diaphragm it activates your
phrenic nerve, making you morerelaxed.
And then also you can get inmore air, breathe out more

(01:05:02):
carbon dioxide, because carbondioxide is what makes you panic,
right.
So if you're in a competition,you don't want to panic.
So people learn how to do thatright will be able to calm
themselves in two ways theirparasympathetic, their
relaxation system of the nervoussystem, and also rid themselves
as much carbon dioxide aspossible.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
I mean, it's spot on and honestly, you're talking
about why I like the NeuroPeakPro so much, because it has a
little device that sits righthere on your diaphragm, right,
yeah, so it's teaching peoplehow to use the diet.
They're terrible at it becausethey all.
Here's what I see.
Like we have our young peoplecome in and when we, when we
introduce them to the belt, wedo the first session with them

(01:05:46):
and kind of teach them someposture and things like that
while they're breathing.
But the first thing thateverybody does, when I tell them
to breathe in, they go, yeah,exactly, and they all think that
they have to pull the air inand they contract and then we
don't have any room to let theair expand.
But what people need to realizeis that your body is a

(01:06:10):
pressurized system, right, soit's warm air inside of us, then
more warm air inside of us andoutside of us because of our
body temperature, so thatcreates a pressure system.
So I finally got over the fearof I'm gonna suffocate.
You know how you wake upsometimes and like I've got dogs
in my house, so like I might bea little snotty when I wake up
because of some allergies orwhatever, but like you're
panicking because you think youcan't breathe because there's

(01:06:32):
blockage in the nasal passages.
But if you just relax, the airstill finds a way, unless you
have a% blockage right.
So I think that people justreally that fear of not having
enough air right, they're justconstantly like kind of
panicking and it's like justamazing.
But to your point, like youknow, getting people from 18 to

(01:06:55):
22 breaths a minute to you knowthat six to eight range, we,
there's hard science, there'shard research.
All of that says that that putsyou on the doorstep to flow or
Zen or in the zone or whateveryou want to call it.
We know that that's kind ofwhere the brain likes to be for
optimal performance.
But like teaching people thatskill and teaching people like

(01:07:17):
how to actually regulate theirbody is like so important and
just I don't, I don't hear anyof this.
Like I know that people do thisstuff because when I go out and
I work on tour and whatnot, Ihear of all these things.
But then when I finally getdown to the competitive ranks,
whether it be college or junior,it's like everything's X's and

(01:07:38):
O's with the golf swing.
That's how we're going to getbetter, that's how we're going
to get better.
We got to get X's and O's, X'sand O's and it's like, well,
dude, like what kind of state isthis person even in when
they're like trying to compete?
Like have we even asked thatquestion?

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
yet yeah exactly.
Yeah, so, uh, you know myexercise, the rib cage openers.
Yeah, one one thing that's notnot paid enough attention to is
is rib cage itself.
So you got three layers of,like, uh, ribs another word for
rib is costal, right?
Um, so you have three layersone inside, one in between the

(01:08:13):
ribs and one over, calledintercostal right, inter ribs,
and, unless those are workingcorrectly, to open and close
like a new accordion, right.
Then there's something above ineverything, above your neck,
your upper, back, your arms andeverything, or something below

(01:08:36):
which includes everything your,your low back, your, uh, your
hips, your, uh, everything inyour, in your body.
Something's going to have tocompensate for that lack of
movement, right?
So what I've been doing latelyI haven't posted, I'm going to
post this real soon is that ribcage opener coupled with the

(01:08:56):
breathing technique we were justtalking about.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Yeah, so does that all the time he uses?
He uses, like breath work withthe Rotex all the time.
I was going to mention that.
You know, that's that's really.
That's kind of the amazingthing, so kind of going back to
where this started with thefields.
Right, you know, how do we getthe nervous system to learn the
best?
Well, we got to get the nervoussystem in a place of being calm

(01:09:19):
, to where it's willing toaccept new information and not
be thinking that there's athreat in the environment, right
?
So, by getting people into theRotex, like I.
You know I love the handheldunit paired with the floor unit.
I think that's a greatcombination.
But getting people right intothese positions, like we talked
about, very, very awesome, greatstuff.

(01:09:40):
The nervous system can learn.
But from there if you're goingto go with the advanced
technique we'll call it you cannot only get into that position,
but then you could get intothat position and take some deep
breaths and now, all of asudden, we're releasing that
carbon monoxide like you weretalking about, dioxide, carbon
dioxide like you were talkingabout, and the carbon dioxide,

(01:10:01):
thank you and we can releasethat from our system, which is
going to get us to calm down andfeel less sense of a threat.
And, like now, if you hold thatposition and do some deep
breathing in that position,you're really reaffirming to the
nervous system that thatposition is okay for you, like
you're allowed to move there,and you really do kind of
haveming to the nervous systemthat that position is okay for
you, like you're allowed to movethere and you really do kind of

(01:10:22):
have to teach the nervoussystem these new ranges of
motion.
If somebody hasn't used thatmuscle or hasn't went to that
range in several years ordecades.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Yeah, and really it should be daily, right.
Yeah, so we've been talkingbasically feels and performance
so far.
I just want to talk reallybriefly on what you do every
single day for activation andactivation is a fancy people

(01:10:53):
like to call it warmup, notreally warmup.
You're not actually reallyelevating the temperature in
your body that much.
You will a little bit, but notthat much, right?
So what we need to do on adaily basis, I call it enough is
enough.
I learned this from my guru outin California, jacob Blanowski
smartest person I've ever met inmy life right, my dad was it

(01:11:17):
until I met him.
So, anyhow, enough is enough.
What are you going to do everysingle day of your life so you
can feel better, move better,sleep better?
All that stuff, right, I have Ihave my little.
Enough is enough.
Exercise, uh, thing right.
But every single day, thingright.

(01:11:38):
But every single day.
We need to stress every joint inall six directions.
Every joint in the body doesthis to some degree Flexion,
extension, abduction, adduction,internal rotation, external

(01:12:02):
rotation, like, for example,just for example and I'm going
to go back and say every jointin the body does that, but just,
for example, taking theshoulder, shoulder doesn't know
those words.
That's all.
Rotation for the shoulder.
It's called circumduction,right?
Okay, so every single day, wehave to stress every single
joint in our body in all sixdirections.
We have to stress every singlejoint in our body in all six
directions.
We have to stress every singlemuscle in the body that moves

(01:12:26):
those joints.
We have to stress every singlefascial line, and there's
basically six major fasciallines in the body that move the
muscles.
And, by the way, don't let meforget about, there's no such
thing as stretching, right okay,I was waiting for you to say it

(01:12:46):
.
I thought you were already goingto say it you're the first one
that ever said it, but that Ithat I heard.
Okay, and then, and then thelast thing in in within that
process, stressing the entirenervous system and learning
those movements as you'restressing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
So let me call off.
Do we want to stretch a muscleJoe or do we want to contract a
muscle Joe?

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Well, you're going to contract it in different ways.
You're either going to shortenit or you're going to lengthen
it or you're going to stress itwhile it's in an immobile
position, like an isometriccontraction, right, but getting.
But getting down to thenitty-gritty, right, if we take
a muscle fiber, and if I wouldhave thought about it, I would

(01:13:31):
have a rubber band right.
But you can imagine anybody canimagine taking a rubber band
and like that, and you can spendall day long.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
By the way, he's stretching the rubber band out
yeah, I used to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
I used to do that all the time in my seminars.
I'm going to get back to it.
I used to throw and I used toteach a five hour course to
doctoral students onbiomechanics, spinal
biomechanics, and I would throwone of them a rubber pan and one
of them a plastic pen, like youknow, like a cheap big plastic

(01:14:09):
pen, right, and I said I wantyou to stretch that for this
three hours, right, and we'regoing to measure it first, and
then, at the end of the of theof the class, we're going to
measure it again, right?
Everybody already knew theanswer, but I said I want you to
do it right, doesn't change,goes right back to its original

(01:14:32):
form.
Exactly the same thing happenswith the muscle, right, plastic
pen is the same quality as asPlastic pen is the same quality
as fascia, okay, and fasciacovers every muscle fiber, every
fascicle, like every group ofmuscles, and it covers the

(01:14:53):
entire body.
I know that you have somepeople that have never we have
some people listening never beenhunting, never skinned an
animal, like a squirrel or adeer or whatever.
But you have this huge whitemembrane like a chicken, right,
huge white membrane all the wayaround it.
That's the fascial covering ofthe muscle right, the person

(01:15:22):
that has the pen.
That stays permanent.
That pen is never going back toits original position.
Once they've been doing thisover and over and over again for
three hours, I will never getthat back to its original
position.
So we're not actuallystretching muscles.
We're not actually we might bestretching them.
We're not changing the lengthof them, right?

(01:15:44):
Never happened, okay.
What's happening is the nervoussystem is making a new program
for the length, the relativelength of muscle from one side
to the other.
So let's just take our quadsand our hamstrings, right.

(01:16:06):
I was just talking to a guy thathas he reportedly six foot six,
took third at the worldchampionships open division this
year, first time he evercompeted, did really well.
We already have a really goodrelationship.
But he was talking about thathis hamstrings are too short.
I said, hmm, that sounds.

(01:16:28):
You know, I'm sitting all daylong.
You know like sit 10, 12 hoursevery day.
And I said are they too shortor are they too long, right?
And he said, well, are they tooshort or are they too long,
right?
And he said, well, they're tooshort.
And I said, well, what if wetake your hip flexors, which we
know are too short becauseyou're sitting all day long,

(01:16:48):
what's the opposite of hipflexors, hip extensors, which
includes the hamstrings and theglutes right?
And when he got that point thatyou should strengthen the
hamstrings rather than stretchthem, here's my one of my

(01:17:10):
favorite sayings a strong,healthy muscle.
A strong, healthy muscle, ismuch more flexible than a
constantly stretched muscle.
I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
I mean in every case in every case, every case.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Strong, healthy muscle is much more flexible
than a, than a constantlystretched muscle.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Like if I, if I I kind of think of it like this
right, if we were to think abouta golf swing and we were to say
like, hey, what's the overallfeel For me?
And what I like to try to helppeople understand is that we
should have tension throughoutthe entire system, throughout

(01:17:47):
the duration of the golf swing.
We want to have tension in ourarms, we want to have tensions
in our legs, we want theappendages extended, and then we
want to try to rotateeverything in the middle.
We don't want to try to move ina shearing effect, everything
in the middle.

(01:18:07):
We just want to let everythingkind of more or less stay in
place and twist about the spine,in a very simplistic kind of
viewpoint, what I'm saying rightnow.
So, with that being said, if I'melongating right a muscle, then
it's going to be really hard tokeep those joints where they
started, and then I'm going toend up creating a lot of free

(01:18:29):
movement and it's going to be alot of slack in the system.
And that's where I thinkgolfers really tend to have a
hard time with golf sometimes isthat they kind of I call it
blackout downswing, but mostgolfers, especially as the
handicaps go up, they can't tellyou what happens from the top
of their swing down, and if youare just kind of in a blackout,

(01:18:53):
then you're always going torefer to the jukebox and you're
never going to make a change.
So what people really have tolearn how to do is how to
activate these said muscles, andyou're never going to make a
change.
So what people really have tolearn how to do is how to
activate these said muscles andthese said muscle groups right,
and then learn how to keep itactivated the entire swing.
That's how we have.
That's the only way we're evergoing to gain any control quote,
unquote over the golf club.

(01:19:15):
And it's just.
You see, everybody you know.
I was just at a prettyprestigious junior tournament,
maybe a week or two ago, andlike, I see all these kids on
the driving range with all theirstretch bands and everybody's
stretching and stretching, andstretching and it actually doing
exercise right, they'reactually activating.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
whether it be the optimal activation probably not,
but they're actually activating.
Not any stretching going onwhen you're using resistance,

(01:19:53):
but getting back to the partlike talking about the health of
the body and preventinginjuries.
Right, you're either going tohave longevity in the sport or
you're constantly going to bedealing with aches and pains,
going to sleep with aches andpains, not getting proper rest

(01:20:15):
because your nervous system istrying to heal a spot you know,
turning over all night long inyour sleep because you can't get
into a comfortable position,things like that, right?
So I just want to coversomething, or I want to talk
about something that most people, when I hear about what happens

(01:20:38):
to most people in the golfswing, it's low back pain, most,
mostly yeah, I agree Hip andlow back.
And, by the way, let me just saythis and put it out there right
, it's not the hips, it is.
I wish if I never heard theword hips again when referring

(01:20:59):
to the golf swing, I would bevery pleased.
It's not the hips, it's thepelvis.
Yeah, it's not the shoulders,it's the pelvis, it's a shoulder
girdle yeah, right, but itworks in a.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
It doesn't work the way people think it does, in a
truly opposite and equal manner.
But it does work as a unit yeah, the shoulders and the and the
hips, which make the pelvis.
Yeah, the pelvis is the unit,right yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
so let's you know, the hips work independently,
right, they work independently,right, yeah.
What the hips can workindependently onto the pelvis,
yeah, right.
But when the pelvis makes themovement, the hips move exactly
in an opposite relationship ofinternal and external rotation.

(01:21:51):
What makes more sense, also,what makes more sense Moving the
pelvis with these huge musclescalled the obliques, right, and
the quads and the hamstrings andall of that stuff, or with
these little tiny muscles withina capsule, right?
So, anyhow, let's get back tothe thing, right.

(01:22:13):
Low back pain Not the hips,yeah, not the hips, yeah.
What?
My biggest pet peeve is thatteachers and coaches within the
golf industry will take aconcept that they've heard

(01:22:34):
forever and refer to it forever,and refer to it forever, and so
there's a, there's a video, andI could pull it up, like
immediately, and you could too,right, is ben hogan talking
about how he makes a golf swing?
Whether it's what?
What you agree upon, what Iagree, right?

(01:22:54):
And he said I don't, uh, thisis is what I do.
I don't start my swing with myupper body, I start with my
knees and my hips.
He dismissed the hips by fiveinches.
Ben Hogan's probably thegreatest ball striker ever

(01:23:15):
that's lived on the planet.
But he's not an anatomicalexpert and so everybody that's
ever seen that thinks that thisis the hips.
It's not the hips.
The hips way down here inside.
You can't touch them Right.
So, so, so, anyhow, that's oneof the things.
All right, so for low back painyou have, I'll just mention two

(01:23:37):
muscles that people can takethis.
We've got all the exercisesthat help them with this.
Let's take the lat and thepsoas muscle.
I stood in front of 650 PGAcoaches and teachers 150 PGA

(01:24:01):
coaches and teachers.
I was given as last year at thePGA show, and I said I want
everybody to close your eyesbecause I don't want to
embarrass any of you, but I wantyou to point to where the lat
attaches.
And I say anybody, point towhere it attaches.
Right, it attaches right there,right there on the upper arm,

(01:24:26):
right, they're like back here,here, here, right, that's pretty
, pretty important for what youend up throwing something right,
swinging is a subclassificationof throwing.
Then I'll ask somebody thatshould know professional, where

(01:24:47):
does the psoas muscle attach?
And most people in the know say, yeah, it attaches to the
lumbar spine, all the segmentsof the lumbar spine, and then it
attaches right here.
Well, doesn't it attaches here?
That's pretty important to know.
And so if you've got thesethings other than neutral you

(01:25:10):
know how commentators say he'shitting other than driver I'll
say, not externally, internal,other than neutral.
If the lat is perfectly neutral,in the proper position, and the
psoas muscle at the femur is ina perfect position, in neutral

(01:25:31):
position, that relieves so muchstress on the low back, oh for
sure.
Yeah, but what happens is thisthis this will be turned in and
this will be neutral.
So one opposite you're puttingpressure on something called and
I don't want to get into anylike deep stuff about anatomy

(01:25:53):
but called the the racco lumbarfascia piece of plastic that's
about that thick on most people,from front to back.
It's shaped like a baseballdiamond, the lat attaches to it
and the psoas is within it, theglutes attach to it, and so when
you start to try to stretchthat plastic, it bites back and

(01:26:14):
it makes everything tight withinthe low back region.
So that's one of the thingsthat we need to work on as
golfers, as human beings.
Right Is making sure that theseare aligned in a neutral
position, all the time that's.

Speaker 1 (01:26:33):
It's so funny you bring that up because I alluded
to Aram from Smash FactorPerformance earlier in our
conversation and I know you andAram talk a lot too.
But you know, the other day Iwas teaching and I kind of had a
full day and you know Aram was,you know, doing his thing and
he was busy all day and, believeit or not, we don't like talk a
ton during the day because he'sbusy doing his thing yeah, so

(01:26:55):
it's not like there's a lot ofchat going on between us.
But so it's not like there's alot of chat going on between us.
But you know, he had walked byme to use the bathroom and I was
kind of showing somebody how totuck their pelvis and then, you
know, a couple of hours laterhe was walking by again and I
was showing somebody how to tucktheir pelvis and I was kind of
aware of the fact that he moreor less heard me say the same

(01:27:15):
thing to two different people.
And then, sure enough, a coupleof hours later he walks by and
I'm telling somebody to tucktheir pelvis.
So anyway, I'm kind of likeaware of the fact that Aaron's
walked by me three times withthree different people and I'm
saying the same thing.
So that evening he was kind ofwrapping up and I was wrapping
up at the same time we weretalking and he's like welcome to
my life, bro.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
What are?

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
you talking about and he's like dude.
I'm a professional pelvisTucker like this and it's like
it's so comical, joe.
But you know, I think one ofthe biggest problems that 90%,
probably 95%, of golfers have isthe fact that they set up with
their, their pelvis, completelyin the wrong orientation.
There's just no way totransition without kind of

(01:28:03):
spilling out, so to speak, withthat pelvis in that orientation
and, talking about the psoas,that's definitely affected by
the orientation of the pelvisfor sure, absolutely yeah.
You know, I think that'sdefinitely.
I think that's why so manypeople think they have back pain
.
They, to your point, probablydon't have quote unquote back
pain, but they definitely havepain and it's definitely, you
know, somewhere down there.
And, like I said, it's allhappening so fast and they're

(01:28:25):
blackout for half of it.
So you know them, being able toidentify what that is is
difficult.
But I think, honestly, you know,if you're listening to this
podcast and you think what Joehas said is pretty smart, like I
do, and you think I haven'tsounded too dumb which hopefully
I haven't and you're likewanting to take this information
and do something with it, thenI would strongly look at getting

(01:28:47):
into a more tucked positionwith your pelvis, which is kind
of easy to do.
If you think about standing upnormal, you want to go ahead and
grab where your belt bucklewould be and you want to pull it
to your forehead, like yourSteve Urkel, and that is really
going to create a lot ofcontraction within your glutes

(01:29:07):
and a lot of contraction withinyour abdomen and core, and we're
literally trying to tuck thefront and back into the middle
to solidify and connect thepelvis to the abdomen and
thoracic.
So by just doing that alone andgetting knees a little more over
toes kind of a little moreathletic pressure, feeling more

(01:29:29):
underneath the ball of the leador of the feet, you know that's
going to do a world of good formost golfers.
The problem is is that mostgolfers are like Joe and myself
and every other human being andwe sit way too much, and the
problem is is that most men aregetting a smaller butt as they
go, like they're not getting abigger butt, they're getting a

(01:29:51):
bigger front but they'reactually getting smaller on the
backside because we're notactivating and using those
glutes enough.
And that is what tends to bereally difficult, I think, for a
lot of golfers is that theydon't have enough strength
within the musculature thatmakes up the pelvis to really
hold that in contraction duringthe golf swing, and it tends to

(01:30:12):
lead to a lot of issues with theway the spine has to now move
and bend, and then I thinkthat's where people start
starting equating that they haveback pain.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
Yeah, just so I understand.
I just want to clarify yeah,they do have back pain, they do
feel.
Yeah, of course they do.
Yeah, but the reason why isthat that isn't the cause.
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
But, doc, you're a great doc, and here's why
because, like, this is how it'ssupposed to work, and this is
this is the problem with being anormal human being and not a
doctor.
I go to the doctor and I sayhey, doc, my knee hurts.
And he's like oh, it's probablyyour ankle or your hip.
And I'm like no, no, no, Idon't think you're listening to
me, it's my knee, doc, my kneehurts.

Speaker 2 (01:30:56):
And he's like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly
yeah, because the knee, the kneeand the elbow are slaves to
above or below.
So, um, yeah, so one of the oneof the things and, by the way,
that that was the whole emphasis, as, like I can, of the 27

(01:31:19):
exercises that we have on ourRotex Motion app, there's
probably at least 10 of themthat address strengthening the
pelvis to where it stays in thebest position.
Right, because I have been toand there's nothing, nothing

(01:31:41):
wrong with these at all.
They've been around for a longtime.
Joseph pilates was a was agenius.
Uh, yoga, yoga's been aroundfor many, many, like eons, right
, yeah, centuries.
But I, I would go to mypatients' yoga classes or

(01:32:01):
Pilates classes so I could meettheir instructor and I would
hear them say tuck your pelvis,tuck your pelvis, tuck your
pelvis.
Well, after three years goingto the same class, you shouldn't
have to be told to tuck yourpelvis.
It should be tucked.
So here's one thing that we canunderstand.
Here there's a bone right inthe middle, right in front of

(01:32:23):
our pelvis.
You can look it up.
It's called the asis, theanterior superior iliac spine,
and then one in the back calledposterior posterior superior
iliac spine, right, two bumps.
Those should be parallel to theground, right?
What I learned when I was goingto a doctoral, when I was

(01:32:45):
getting my doctoral inchiropractic, is that normal is
seven degrees tilt, anteriortilt, tilted frontwards, right.
Well, I later what I understand.
Now that might be normal, butit's not perfect right.
Perfect is when those two bonesare perfectly aligned.

(01:33:07):
That means you have equaltension from your glutes to your
psoas muscle, from your quadsto your hamstring muscles, from
your internal rotators to yourexternal rotator to your hips,
and that is basically theuniverse that's surrounding your
pelvis, and you want yourpelvis to to stay like that.

(01:33:27):
Now it goes really, really deep, by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
Um but you know what?
I'm going to take yourchallenge and I'm going to
explain what you just said toour listeners, but I'm going to
assume that I only have threeyear olds for listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
Yeah, good, here we go yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
Yeah, so your, your two hips.
I know we don't like that, butyour two hips make a pelvis and
your two hips are two glasses ofgrape juice, Okay, and the
problem is is that you're threeyears old and you're pouring it
for the first time and youpoured them both completely full

(01:34:05):
.
So the thing is is that we knowthat if you just stand normal,
you're going to spill some outthe front.
So you've got to take those twocups of grape juice, those two
hips, and you got to pull themback up and keep them level.
Yeah, yeah, right, like that's.
That's really kind of thethought here is, and I love that

(01:34:28):
you're giving actual pointsthat I can touch, that we can
talk about, like we want to seethose, but really the big idea
is that we have got to get thebutt more underneath of us and
not behind us.
That can't be the position wetry to play golf from, because
it just makes it all butimpossible to rotate around that

(01:34:51):
spine in a way that's not goingto create a lot of unnecessary
bends and tilts on the spinalcolumn, especially the lower
lumbar.

Speaker 2 (01:34:59):
Yeah.
So what does a dog do whenthey're submissive or they've
done something wrong?
Throw it around their back.
They'll tuck their tail.
That's what we should do.
We should tuck our tail.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
I like it, that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
Yeah, listen, I've got you know we can say this on
a podcast.
But I've got you know we cansay this on the podcast.

(01:35:33):
But when I work with footballplayers, right, they are the
hardest ones to teach to tucktheir pelvis because they are in
that sprint mode.
Their pelvis almost every oneof them has severely anteriorly
or frontward tilt.

Speaker 1 (01:35:39):
Yeah, of course, because we kind of fall forward
to walk and run right, so thatwould only make sense.

Speaker 2 (01:35:43):
Yeah, now regular people what I will explain to
them.
I said I want you to keep this.
This is your sacrum.
Your tailbone is shaped like myhand and it is shaped exactly.
If I put that right over mysacrum, it fits.
I want you to keep this partagainst the wall.

(01:36:07):
Then I want you to pull thispart away from the wall.
That's the proper movement.
Professional football playersdon't understand that, but I'll
tell them pee on the the ceilingand they'll immediately get it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:25):
Absolutely.
I mean it's crazy.
But in all honesty, kind ofgoing back to what we were
talking about with footballlinemen, uh, you know, using the
Rotex, you know it's, it'sabsolutely wild, in my opinion,
to see those guys get on thereand just literally fall on their
face because they areprofessional athletes, like they

(01:36:46):
know how.
They know how to do this.
But what I've kind of foundwith the linemen is that, you
know, most coaching uh tends tobe kind of, uh, historical, kind
of based coaching, like.
I've've heard this.
This is what I was taught.

Speaker 2 (01:37:02):
This is what I did.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
I was a professional, so I'm going to pass this
information off to you and whatelse has to swing with your hips
.
Right, right, exactly so it's.
I understand, like they're notall wrong, and I'm not saying
that that kind of coaching isalways wrong because, honestly,
there's a lot of good that comesfrom it because it's normally
application-based, so like Idon't have anything wrong with

(01:37:25):
that.
But I'm not going to mentionthe team that I'm, I'm, I'm not
allowed to mention the team I'mworking for, but I'm not going
to mention the name.
But they had a very uh, oldschool, uh, lineman coach and he
firmly believed thateverybody's butt should be at
the same height when they're inalignment, so much so that he

(01:37:46):
used to walk around with a stickthat was long enough to where
he could put it on butts andcheck heights.
Okay, that was his kind ofmethodology behind how we make a
good line.
But what I asked him and askedthe strength and conditioning
team is I said well, whathappens if player A has a longer
fibula and tibia than player B?

(01:38:07):
Yeah, will their butts be atthe same height anatomically?

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:11):
And the answer is no, of course, right.
So what we really have beenable to find out is, through
kind of some jump testing and afew different things and
reactive and explosive moves,what we've been able to find out
is that, you know, noteverybody's butt should be at
the same level for them tocreate the most push away from
the ground.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I've really enjoyed the Rotexbecause typically these linemen

(01:38:37):
if you want so, if you watch acollege football game right, and
I know everybody's doing thatright now If you watch linemen,
every one of them has kneebraces, everyone.
But when you go to theprofessional level, you don't
see any knee braces online andyou also see a reduction in
padding, you see a reduction inequipment because these guys are
trying to beat the best playersin the world at what they do.

(01:39:00):
So they're shedding weight,they're doing everything they
can to where they can be asefficient and fast and as mobile
as possible.
So, long story short.
Where I think things havereally changed now is that when
these professional linemen aregrowing up and learning how to
do this movement, they're in arestrictive brace that only

(01:39:22):
allows them to use so much oftheir ability, because the brace
prevents them from going to endranges of motion, right.
It's there to kind of keep usin the middle.
So, long story short, I reallythink that it's been incredible
with the Rotex, because whatI've seen in the NFL level with
the professional athletes I'mworking with there is that their

(01:39:43):
ankles and their knees aregenerally always banged up,
always, they're always rollingon them, they're always twisting
them, somebody's falling onthem, like they're always banged
up.
And when they are weighing inexcess of 300 pounds, right, and
we're compressing those alreadykind of strained joints and
joint segments even more, nowthe mobility really goes to crap

(01:40:04):
.
So by having them on the Rotexdevice, it's amazing because it
allows the nervous system tokind of let things rotate again
underneath the player and nowthey can kind of find those
ranges of motion throughouttheir body because the nervous
system isn't kicking in andgoing whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a
minute, we might hurt ourselvesagain.
And it's been wild man, I mean,it's it's.

(01:40:27):
I think that we're.
Where people get confused withwhat we're trying to do, joe, is
.
We want to make it simple, wewant to make it as simple as we
can.
We want to tell you the onething that you need to hear to
do it better.
We really do more than anythingon the world, but to do that,

(01:40:48):
we have to be working from ageneral consensus or
understanding of where wecurrently are, and if the person
that we're trying to teachsomething to doesn't know those
things, you have to explain it.
You have to teach these things,you have to have them aware of
how the whole system works ifyou're going to elicit any kind
of change or potential for achange.

Speaker 2 (01:41:10):
Absolutely.
And since you mentioned, likeankle mobility, all that stuff,
right up right To sell a program, right Sell a book.

Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
Let's just say book Books are kind of defunct
nowadays.

Speaker 2 (01:41:29):
Right, let's just say sell a book.
You're not going to sell a bookthat's that thick.
You want to sell it that thick,so you have to pad it with all
different kinds of stuff, right?
So, uh, let's just talk about,um, how we would treat
traditionally mobility andstability.
Okay, you have to mobilizationexercises for this particular

(01:41:52):
part of the body, thisparticular part, and then, and
then separate from that,stability exercises for this
particular part of the body andthere's, like, this is supposed
to provide stability, this issupposed to provide stability.
You know, mobility all the wayup the chain, right, right, true
, true.
However, everything has acomponent of mobility and

(01:42:18):
stability, so why not train themat the same time?
So when you get those linemenon the Rotex working against
rotational resistance, you'retraining automatically.
You don't have to separatestuff Automatically depending
upon the position of their body.
Every mobile and stable jointin the body to equal degrees

(01:42:41):
against resistance.
Simple as that.
You don't have to.
There's no argument of whetheryou want to go mobility or
stability first, because itdoesn't matter.
It really doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
I 100% agree, and I think this is actually kind of
it right.
I think it's actually a greatpoint because I want to mention
this and then I've got to get toteaching and Joe's got a busy
day as well, so, but I did wantto bring this up.
I've been saving it for the end.
You know, joe, I can't thankyou enough because you've done

(01:43:16):
something that I don't thinkvery many people are aware of,
and if you're listening to thispodcast and you feel like we've
been trying to sell you a Rotex,I apologize.
We are not trying to sell you aRotex.
I think it's a great piece ofequipment.
I think you definitely shouldhave one.
I think if you're serious aboutnot only improving your daily
overall life, but also your golfgame or any other sports that

(01:43:37):
you play, I think a Rotex is byfar and away your best friend.
It's 10, 15 minutes a day.
It's very, very simple.
It doesn't require any kind ofadvanced membership or anything
like that.
It's something that you canliterally take out of the box
and use today and start feelingbetter.
So I think the Rotex is great,and I apologize if I've come off

(01:43:58):
as any kind of salesman,because I'm not trying to be one
.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
I don't think it sounded like that at all.
Yeah, yeah, so I just want tobe clear about that.

Speaker 1 (01:44:07):
And then I want to add this next point If you don't
feel comfortable purchasing theRotex, for whatever reason,
there's something even betterthat Joe's done and he doesn't
get any credit for it, and Ithink it's probably the greatest
resource for a modern golfcoach that you could possibly

(01:44:28):
have and it is the Rotex motionapp.
And the app is quite I meanhonestly and it's free and it's
free I, I, that's.
I was going to get there.
The reason that I haven't donemy app yet is because Joe did
his app first and I stillhaven't figured out a way to do

(01:44:53):
a better app than what Joe hasdone, because it's not just us
talking at you and saying abunch of big words that maybe
you're not familiar with.
Talking at you and saying abunch of big words that maybe
you're not familiar with, butinstead is actually a really
thoughtful way of walking peoplethrough exercises, explaining
how it works, and then, moreimportantly, there's also a lot
of animations that actually showexactly how these muscles are

(01:45:16):
moving, which is incredible.
So if you have heard us saysomething on this podcast and
you're unfamiliar with it, youcan literally go to the app
store.
You can download the RotexMotion app for free it doesn't
cost you a penny and youliterally can look up these
exact things, exactly how we setthem, and you will literally
see an animation of how thatworks from a anatomical

(01:45:41):
perspective.
And that is gold, because forso many people, the golf swing
is happening in less than twoseconds and there's just not a
lot of time to quantify what isactually happening in our golf
swing.
So by understanding the conceptand how the muscle actually
works and fires and activates,and then by being able to put

(01:46:02):
that into your fields and then,if you're fortunate enough to
have the Rotex device, I meanit's kind of a home run and I
truly think that if you look atthe price of the Rotex and you
look at the benefits from theRotex, it's almost comical Like
you should have one alreadybecause it really does help.

(01:46:22):
And I think it's one of thegreatest things that any coach
could have in their space wherethey coach, because, as I said
earlier, I know what I wanttheir golf swing to eventually
kind of quote unquote look like,but they don't know how that
feels because they've not donethat before potentially.
So by being able to create thefeeling for them, it opens up a

(01:46:44):
whole opportunity for a lot ofconversation and a lot of
learning, and I think thatthat's what Joe's device with
the Rotex Motion really does isit translates feelings, and that
, as a coach, is by far thehardest thing that I have to try
to do on a daily basis.
So I really want to take my hatoff.
I want to thank Joe for hisyears of service first and

(01:47:04):
foremost, and then, secondly, Iwant to thank him for his time
today, because his time is very,very valuable.
He has been a tremendous wealthof knowledge to me and has
probably taught me more aboutthe human body than I ever could
have possibly dreamt oflearning.
So I'm very fortunate to havehim in my life.
Please give him a follow atRotex Motion.
He does not do a personal one,it's all Rotex all the time, but

(01:47:28):
it's awesome.
So make sure to give him afollow.
Reach out to him.
I know he has a golf schoolcoming up here very shortly with
Fast Eddie Fernandez and mygood friend Jared Bickle over at
Touche Golf Performance in FortWayne, indiana.
So if you're interested ingetting to hang out with Eddie
and Joe for the day, heck Imight even show up.

(01:47:48):
You never know.

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
Yeah, come on yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:47:51):
So if you're going to be in the area, you can check
that out.
You can find information onJoe's Instagram account.
But thanks again to Joe andthanks to everybody for
listening.
If you haven't already, pleasedownload and subscribe to this
podcast.
That certainly makes things alot more helpful for us.
And if you want, find us onsocial media and leave us some
comments.
Let us know what you'd like tohear and I promise, if you give

(01:48:12):
us some comments on social media, we'll definitely reach out and
try to get you some answers toyour questions.
So thanks again, thanks to Joe,and thanks for everybody
listening, and until next time,keep grinding.

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