February 17, 2025 • 24 mins
Join in on the podcast this week where Pastor Rick talks with Pastor Jeff and Pastor James about the process that led to being appointed as HOPE's next lead pastor. Hear from both about what excites them about the future of HOPE as we get to know Pastor James and look towards the next chapter for HOPE's community.
NOTES:
- UMC Appointments Page: https://www.gnjumc.org/appointments/2025-appointments/
- Pastor James Lee's Bio: https://www.meethope.org/james-lee-bio-announcement
- Get to know James from previous podcast episodes!
- Episode 37: Bridging Faith and Technology: Finding Community Online - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2065910/episodes/13383952
- Episode 44: Exploring AI and ChatGPT's Impact on the Church with James Lee - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2065910/episodes/13403636
- Episode 77: Seeking Unity and Transformation: Updates from the United Methodist Church's 2024 General Conference - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2065910/episodes/15079867
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.online.church! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Enjoy what you heard? Be sure to rate us on Apple Podcasts and click the subscribe button so you don't miss new episodes every Monday!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:03):
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Welcome to Hope.
Rick Court (00:28):
Hey, hello everyone.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Meet Hope podcast.
I'm Rick and I'm really happyto be your host today, and I'm
especially excited to have withme Pastor Jeff Bills.
Pastor Jeff how are you doing?
Jeff Bills (00:41):
I'm doing great, rick, thanks.
Rick Court (00:43):
And also in the room with me is Pastor James Lee
Woo-hoo.
Yes, I am here with royaltyhere, Pastor Jeff and Pastor
James and excited because we aregoing to talk about process.
A lot of different processes.
Sounds fascinating.
Jeff Bills (00:59):
All the processes.
Rick Court (01:00):
All the processes you could have.
So, yeah, so we want to do anepisode to kind of let our Hope
listeners know where we've beenand where we're going in this
lead pastor change that's takingplace and so we're going to
talk about the appointmentprocess and that's a United
Methodist term.
United Methodist Church has aformal process and we're going
(01:23):
to do a quick telling of thatprocess and so I'm going to kind
of lead you guys with a fewquestions, okay.
So, Pastor Jeff, a bishopappoints pastors, correct?
Jeff Bills (01:31):
That's correct.
We're appointed to a localchurch for one year and that
appointment is renewed or apastor is moved at the end of
that one-year time.
Rick Court (01:46):
Yeah, so it's a one-year appointment that begins
in July and it goes throughJune every year, right?
And that pastors can bereappointed multiple years, like
you have been, for it'll be 35or is 35 years.
Yeah, and the United MethodistChurch has recognized that
longer tenures often lead tohealthy cultures, and so that's
exciting to see.
And how does that processhappen, james?
(02:11):
How does that happen?
None of the districtsuperintendents involved, right?
James Lee (02:14):
And the church is involved.
Yeah, so the districtsuperintendents all get together
like this time of year, sobetween like January and May.
They're meeting on a regularbasis with each other and with
churches to discern.
Okay, so, among these churches,how are things going?
How is the mission being movedforward?
What is the relationshipbetween pastors and the church
(02:36):
and to discern?
Are things going well or does achange in leadership need to
happen?
And this is what we callappointment season every year,
and announcements are made everySunday and then the
appointments all start on July 1.
Rick Court (02:50):
Right, right.
James Lee (02:50):
And so now in pastor circles the appointment process
is people love it or hate, it orhave different opinions about
it, right or both at the sametime.
Rick Court (03:04):
Yeah, so I have a story.
When I was going to seminary, Iwas uncomfortable with the
appointment process.
I was going through UnitedMethodist Candidacy it was
called Candidacy back then and Iwas uncomfortable with knowing
that I could potentially moveevery year.
Be moved, with knowing that Icould potentially move every
(03:25):
year.
Be moved, be moved.
Yes, and at the time it seemedthat churches were moving
pastors frequently and thebishop was moving pastors
frequently.
So I elected to not be part ofthat process.
But, james, you have adifferent experience.
James Lee (03:39):
Yeah, and I'll say I started that way too.
I remember first hearing aboutthe appointment process Long
before I knew the bishop or DSsor anyone in the conference.
It just felt like folks up inthe high tower telling us what
to do and I wasn't reallyinterested in that process at
all.
That is until I was working forthe conference as a video
(04:03):
producer.
So I had actually long storyshort.
I was in ministry.
I said I don't want to doministry anymore and I stepped
away from it and I was pursuinga career in video production and
I got picked up as a conferencestaff doing video.
During that time, as I wasworking in the office, I saw the
cabinet, so the districtsuperintendents and the bishop
(04:25):
having an appointment meetingand they have a big glass wall
in their main conference room soyou could see everything.
You can't hear anything andwhat I saw were about 10 people
all godly men and women laughing, arguing, praying and having
(04:49):
deep Holy Spirit conversations.
It's not a perfect process, butI saw faithful people trying to
be faithful to the process anddiscern what will move the
church forward.
Their hearts were all in theright place and I remember
witnessing that week after weekand saying you know, no process
(05:10):
is perfect, but maybe I couldput my trust in this process.
I was feeling a call to go backto local church ministry.
Someone had pursued me to be achurch planter for their church
and I said, all right, I'minterested, I'm in, let's go
back to the local church.
And I said, all right, I'minterested, I'm in, let's go
back to the local church.
And I talked to my bishop andthe bishop said yeah, this
(05:30):
sounds great.
I talked to my DS at the time,was all in and it was a Sunday
night.
The DS said, all right, I'mgoing to go into the meeting
tomorrow, we're going to prayabout it and I'll give you the
good news tomorrow.
The next he calls me and saysso there's this church in South
Plainfield called Wesley and Iwas like where is South
Plainfield?
This was not what we talkedabout.
And I spent time in prayer withmy wife, julie, and we said you
(05:55):
know what?
Let's trust the process, let'strust the movement of the Holy
Spirit.
And we followed and we said weobeyed and we went to the church
and it was such a formativeexperience in my leadership.
It was a church going through adifficult time.
We saw great change, greattransition and great fruits of
ministry there and I grew somuch as a leader.
(06:17):
I would not be who I am todayif I did not go to that church.
That's great.
Jeff Bills (06:21):
That's a great story Really.
Just to kind of piggyback onthis conversation.
Having been in ministry now fordecades, I've seen other
processes play out.
So I've seen churches who don'thave a bishop appointing
somebody.
They have a call system wherethe local church makes the
(06:42):
decision, and that's not aperfect system either, and I've
watched churches go for a coupleof years without a pastor being
called or infighting overdebates about who should come,
and none of that happens in oursystem.
And none of that happens in oursystem.
(07:04):
So a Methodist church will notgo without a pastor for a long
period of time.
That's right.
Everybody gets appointed.
As James said, they start atthe beginning of July, and so
there are positives andnegatives to all systems, but
(07:25):
this one's pretty good,especially, james, as you
pointed out, when the people whohave that huge responsibility
of making these appointmentstake it that seriously Exactly.
Rick Court (07:37):
And so that's the process that we've been going
through here at Hope, with Jamesgetting appointed.
So our district superintendentmet with our leadership team,
there was a consultation andalso working with the bishop and
the cabinet, and the decisionwas made that James would be
appointed here in July.
So now that the formal processhas been processed and that's
(08:01):
the part that wasn't under ourcontrol we were trusting in the
process I know Sixers fans youdon't want to use that motto
right now because the Sixers arenot examples of a process you
can trust.
But what, as Pastor Jeff shareda few weeks ago or maybe a
month ago now, is that now wecan be transparent, moving
forward, now that we're beyondthe part that wasn't under our
(08:23):
control and we want to sharethat hope has had a process
that's been beyond the part thatwasn't under our control and we
want to share that hope has hada process that's been beyond
the process right.
And so, jeff, I know you and Italked that 20 years ago when we
first started getting to knoweach other, we were having
conversations about me coming tohope and we've told that story
multiple times.
But you and James have had asimilar process.
Jeff Bills (08:45):
Yeah.
So, as God would have it, jamesand I ended up in a cohort
together.
It was a group of four pastors.
One of the pastors, the seniorpastor at Haddonfield Methodist,
chris Heckert, reached out topastors that he said are doing
(09:06):
creative ministry, and you know,let's get together and talk
about what we're doing and shareideas and so forth, and so I
was excited about that and so Iknew Chris the other pastor was
in Mulliga Hill at the time andthis, james Lee, who I'd never I
(09:31):
don't know if I'd never met you, but I certainly didn't know
you, we didn't have extensiveconversations.
No, yeah, so he showed up, andso that's where I started to get
to know James and listen to theways that he was talking about
ministry and thinking aboutministry, and I was already on
(09:55):
kind of a search mission forwho's going to be the next lead
pastor.
And so, as much as I trust thesystem, nobody knows this church
better than I do, and so Iwanted to be able to have some
input when the time came, and sothat had me looking around and
(10:22):
so got to know him through thiscohort.
And then you and I got togetherfor some lunches that's right,
just the two of us and so it wasan informal interview going on
I don't know if it felt likethat to you, but that's what was
going on with me like that toyou.
James Lee (10:43):
But uh, but that's what was going on with me.
For me, I think at the time Iinterpreted as, um, I was
bringing value to you and kindof talking about online church
and online ministry and uh, Iwas very self selfishly, uh,
seeking leadership development,training, advices and uh, just
to grow my own leadership and Iwould just pick your brain, ask
these questions on leadership.
So I was like this is a greatopportunity to just pick Jeff
(11:06):
Bill's brain.
Jeff Bills (11:07):
Well, it was, and and obviously the conversations
went on and and it becameclearer and clearer to me that
that James would be a great, agreat lead pastor here at Hope
Church and I think there weresome defining moments.
(11:28):
I don't know if we want to getinto that right now, but around
the time that I was reallygetting interested I saw you
know so you talked about onSundays they announce these
appointments, right.
So one Sunday afternoon I checkout to see who had been
appointed and I see James Leehas been appointed as the
(11:51):
director of communications forthe conference and I was
distraught.
I thought, oh, I thought thisguy was like really into the
local church and now he's takingthis conference role, and so it
(12:12):
was a thinking right, it was acrisis of confidence.
James Lee (12:19):
There were a lot of colleagues who were like are you
sure you want to do this?
Yeah, there are a lot ofcolleagues who are like are you
sure?
Rick Court (12:25):
you want to do this?
Yeah, jade.
What were your initial thoughtswhen the conversation first
started?
James Lee (12:31):
So, the first time this was brought to my attention
was early last year.
The district superintendent,glenn Conaway, approached me.
So now that I was the directorof communications I was seeing
him pretty much every week andhe just asked me, point blank.
He said let me talk to you inyour office.
(12:51):
And he came in and said what doyou think about Hope Church?
And I said I think it's a greatchurch, it's an amazing church.
And he said, well, no, I meanif you were to be the pastor
there, church.
And he said well, no, I mean ifyou were to be the pastor there
.
And, uh, I had extreme.
(13:12):
Uh, my first reaction was no,there are so many more better
pastors out there who could leadhope and in fact they have
great pastors there already.
So and I said what about Rick?
Great pastors there already.
So and I said what about Rick?
Jeff Bills (13:26):
Wouldn't.
James Lee (13:26):
Rick be a great lead pastor for Hope.
And just to jump forward, Iknow, rick, when you and I first
had a very no strings attachedlunch, it was our first lunch.
Rick Court (13:37):
Yeah, our first lunch, yeah, yeah.
James Lee (13:39):
First lunch.
Rick Court (13:43):
I did ask you that question Pretty point blank.
You asked it out, it out of thegate.
I think we still had menus inour hands and you said to me,
why is Rick Court not going tobe the lead pastor at Hope?
And I'm like wow, this guydidn't pull any punches.
Jeff Bills (13:56):
When you were a part of a chorus of people asking
that question.
Okay, okay, yeah.
Rick Court (14:03):
And to all of them.
What I said to you was, first,I'm not in the appointment
process.
Traditionally I'm a localpastor, so it's different in
that sense.
But also, I'm not the right age, I'm not the right demographic
to follow Pastor Jeff, because Iwould do it for eight years and
then the church would be in thesame process all over again.
(14:27):
Personally, I don't think Ihave the right temperament.
I like my role, I like what Ido, I'm in a good spot.
It's a sweet spot for me and mygifts, my talents, I get to use
them and my deficiencies and myweaknesses get covered really
well in the role that I'm in andI am happy to be a partner in
(14:50):
ministry with the lead pastorand that's the role I have and
that's basically, I think, whatI said to you.
And then I ordered.
You know you ordered a pastramisandwich and I ordered.
James Lee (15:01):
I don't know what we ordered.
Jeff Bills (15:03):
I don't know what I ordered but I do remember that
answer, which is such a selflessanswer really.
Like you know, if it were allabout ego and so forth for Rick,
it would have been a verydifferent kind of discussion,
but such a selfless kind ofresponse, and the same would be
(15:26):
true of Heather and Dave, and sothat's what opened up this
opportunity for somebody who isnot currently on staff.
Yeah.
Rick Court (15:37):
And so now we've talked about the process behind
the process.
But, folks, there's still anongoing process, and we're
excited about that part too.
So now, james, you and yourfamily have been attending Hope
since last July, right June.
Last June, yep, yep, but eventhough you're not appointed
until this July coming up, youwere already involved in getting
(15:58):
to know the staff, the leadteam and the church, and how has
that been going so far?
James Lee (16:03):
Yeah.
So just to pull the veil alittle bit further, we moved to
the area, to Marlton, notknowing if the appointment would
happen.
But we knew that when we cameinto the area that Hope Church
is a church that we wanted to bea part of, and so we started
attending in the summer and gotto know folks and we fell in
(16:25):
love with the church.
Julie and I took a membershipclass because, again, we didn't
know if the appointment wouldhappen or not right.
It was something that wascompletely out of our hands and
we enjoyed the membership class.
Julie began volunteering at thefood pantry.
I began volunteering at themedia team in the back.
That's great.
Intro (16:45):
The cameras.
James Lee (16:47):
And we've fallen in love with the church, our kids
joined the kids choir.
Like it's where we've beenwelcomed and we feel like we're
part of the family.
Rick Court (16:56):
So yeah, that's great and that's kind of I love
that about watching you comethat you immediately decided
that being part of the localchurch meant that you
volunteered and that your familygot involved and got connected.
Jeff Bills (17:09):
I love that because that's kind of who we are A
little mantra that I've had overthe years that just fits in
with this so beautifully.
I always said you know, ifyou're not willing to serve,
you're not ready to lead.
I always said you know if you'renot willing to serve, you're
not ready to lead, and so thathad to do with people on our
lead team and stepping intopositions of leadership.
I wanted to see somebody thathas a servant heart, that you
(17:31):
know they're not looking forpositions of authority and so
forth, they just want to serve.
In those ways just speaksvolumes of your heart and just
another indication that this isthe right person for leading
(17:55):
this church forward and the nextgeneration.
Rick Court (18:00):
So, James, so what are?
Are there any?
It's named a few thing, or namesomething that you're excited
about or that you're lookingforward to as you get ready to
be the lead pastor in July.
James Lee (18:11):
I'm really excited to get to know and work with the
team.
So you know, in previousappointments at churches I
worked in communities where Iwas the only full-time staff.
We had full, part-time stafffolks.
But I love that there's a teamhere at hope and that that means
(18:33):
that we have people withdifferent gifts that can really
focus in on what they're good atwork together.
You say you love that you couldhide your deficiencies right, I
love that language because Ihave deficiencies too, and I
love that with the team we couldreally work together.
So that's what I'm reallylooking forward to getting to
know the team, working witheverybody on staff and on lead
(18:55):
team and beyond.
Rick Court (18:56):
So, yeah, I think it's fun, I think it's, I think
it's for me personally, it'sbringing a fresh perspective to
ministry.
James and I just had a meetingbeforehand and it was fun to
we're going through and I saidJeff and I had a dance and we
kind of dance a certain way andI said I have to learn your
moves.
Yeah, I'm trying to figure outwhat they are.
Which has been.
It's fresh and exciting.
(19:16):
It's kinda cool.
But, jeff, there's another Partof the process.
Is a change for you too?
Yeah, so you're going to titlechange.
I do, I do, yeah.
Jeff Bills (19:31):
So I officially retire.
Again, this is the process ofthe United Methodist Church.
I retire June 30th, jamesbecomes lead pastor July 1st.
But recognizing that this is aunique church within our area,
(19:51):
within this conference, andunique also because I'm the
founding pastor, so there arethings about this that make it a
unique kind of thing.
So lead team, recognizing that,wanted to extend the transition
period of time to give Jamesthe opportunity to kind of get
(20:18):
into the groove and find his waywith some support.
So you're going to besupporting him, of course, and
other members of the staff, butI'll be.
The title change is from leadpastor to founding pastor,
(20:47):
founding pastor.
So I'll have this new title andthis position of working
alongside James and the leadteam in a transition process,
and so that's still beingdeveloped, the job description
of that is still being developed, but I'm excited and honored
that I get to play some role inbringing James on board and
(21:09):
helping him and the staff do thedance.
Rick Court (21:15):
Yeah, I think it's a great decision, a great role.
Yeah, I'm super excited.
Intro (21:20):
I am very excited.
James Lee (21:24):
a great role.
Yeah, I'm super excited.
I am very excited.
This is something that I thinkis typically a weak point in our
process.
In the United Methodist process, which is typically June 30th,
the pastor says bye-bye and thenJuly 1st a new pastor comes in,
and if there is an intentionalmeeting between the two pastors,
oftentimes a lot of things fallthrough the cracks, through the
transition.
Things are lost in that.
(21:49):
But what a gift that I get towork with Jeff for a couple more
months and learn from him.
And I also plan even after youretire, jeff, I'm still going to
plan to reach out to you andstill keep you around and make
sure.
yeah, you tell me if I ambugging you, but I think, yeah,
that time where you'll be thefounding pastor and working with
us, I see that as a tremendousgift.
Jeff Bills (22:11):
Well, and you know, we're buying the house.
We talked about this onprevious podcasts.
Marilyn and I are buying theparsonage.
The new parsonage is now inMarlton, where James and Julie
live, and so we're going to beliving in the Voorhees area.
This is our community.
This is our church as well.
Yeah, and one of the things I'mexcited about and I'll probably
(22:33):
be saying this a bunch in thenext coming months for the first
time in 35 years, I'm going tohave a pastor.
First time in 35 years, I'mgoing to have a pastor.
So it's been a long time sinceI've had a pastor, and so for me
and for Marilyn to step intothis place of we get to serve
(22:56):
now and just be a part of thiscommunity in whatever ways makes
sense for us and for the church, and to serve however we can.
I'm excited about that.
Rick Court (23:14):
And so is that the answer to the question what are
you most hopeful about?
Jeff Bills (23:20):
Yeah, I mean it's part of it right.
You most hopeful about?
Yeah, I mean it's part of it,right.
So I am most hopeful that thischurch that started 35 years ago
is thriving and that it ispoised to do exceedingly,
abundantly more than we couldhope or even imagine.
Rick Court (23:41):
The best is yet to come, yeah.
Jeff Bills (23:42):
Best yet to come, for sure.
And so and I can't wait towatch it happen I'll be on the
sidelines cheering, cheering iton.
And so this appointment is sucha God thing.
And so, yeah, I'm profoundlyhopeful.
Rick Court (24:00):
Exciting.
Yeah Well, jeff, thank you.
Yeah Well, jeff.
Thank you, james.
Thanks and thank you listeners.
We're glad that you could joinus for this and if this is
something that you know somebodywould like to hear, we'd love
for you to share this podcastwith others.
And thanks a lot.
We'll see you all next time.
Intro (24:19):
Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we
continue our conversations aboutfaith and hope.
If you don't already, pleasejoin us for worship on Sundays
or on demand.
You can learn more atmeethopeorg or find us on
socials at Meet Hope Church.
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Welcome to Hope.
Rick Court (00:28):
Hey, hello everyone.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Meet Hope podcast.
I'm Rick and I'm really happyto be your host today, and I'm
especially excited to have withme Pastor Jeff Bills.
Pastor Jeff how are you doing?
Jeff Bills (00:41):
I'm doing great, rick, thanks.
Rick Court (00:43):
And also in the room with me is Pastor James Lee
Woo-hoo.
Yes, I am here with royaltyhere, Pastor Jeff and Pastor
James and excited because we aregoing to talk about process.
A lot of different processes.
Sounds fascinating.
Jeff Bills (00:59):
All the processes.
Rick Court (01:00):
All the processes you could have.
So, yeah, so we want to do anepisode to kind of let our Hope
listeners know where we've beenand where we're going in this
lead pastor change that's takingplace and so we're going to
talk about the appointmentprocess and that's a United
Methodist term.
United Methodist Church has aformal process and we're going
(01:23):
to do a quick telling of thatprocess and so I'm going to kind
of lead you guys with a fewquestions, okay.
So, Pastor Jeff, a bishopappoints pastors, correct?
Jeff Bills (01:31):
That's correct.
We're appointed to a localchurch for one year and that
appointment is renewed or apastor is moved at the end of
that one-year time.
Rick Court (01:46):
Yeah, so it's a one-year appointment that begins
in July and it goes throughJune every year, right?
And that pastors can bereappointed multiple years, like
you have been, for it'll be 35or is 35 years.
Yeah, and the United MethodistChurch has recognized that
longer tenures often lead tohealthy cultures, and so that's
exciting to see.
And how does that processhappen, james?
(02:11):
How does that happen?
None of the districtsuperintendents involved, right?
James Lee (02:14):
And the church is involved.
Yeah, so the districtsuperintendents all get together
like this time of year, sobetween like January and May.
They're meeting on a regularbasis with each other and with
churches to discern.
Okay, so, among these churches,how are things going?
How is the mission being movedforward?
What is the relationshipbetween pastors and the church
(02:36):
and to discern?
Are things going well or does achange in leadership need to
happen?
And this is what we callappointment season every year,
and announcements are made everySunday and then the
appointments all start on July 1.
Rick Court (02:50):
Right, right.
James Lee (02:50):
And so now in pastor circles the appointment process
is people love it or hate, it orhave different opinions about
it, right or both at the sametime.
Rick Court (03:04):
Yeah, so I have a story.
When I was going to seminary, Iwas uncomfortable with the
appointment process.
I was going through UnitedMethodist Candidacy it was
called Candidacy back then and Iwas uncomfortable with knowing
that I could potentially moveevery year.
Be moved, with knowing that Icould potentially move every
(03:25):
year.
Be moved, be moved.
Yes, and at the time it seemedthat churches were moving
pastors frequently and thebishop was moving pastors
frequently.
So I elected to not be part ofthat process.
But, james, you have adifferent experience.
James Lee (03:39):
Yeah, and I'll say I started that way too.
I remember first hearing aboutthe appointment process Long
before I knew the bishop or DSsor anyone in the conference.
It just felt like folks up inthe high tower telling us what
to do and I wasn't reallyinterested in that process at
all.
That is until I was working forthe conference as a video
(04:03):
producer.
So I had actually long storyshort.
I was in ministry.
I said I don't want to doministry anymore and I stepped
away from it and I was pursuinga career in video production and
I got picked up as a conferencestaff doing video.
During that time, as I wasworking in the office, I saw the
cabinet, so the districtsuperintendents and the bishop
(04:25):
having an appointment meetingand they have a big glass wall
in their main conference room soyou could see everything.
You can't hear anything andwhat I saw were about 10 people
all godly men and women laughing, arguing, praying and having
(04:49):
deep Holy Spirit conversations.
It's not a perfect process, butI saw faithful people trying to
be faithful to the process anddiscern what will move the
church forward.
Their hearts were all in theright place and I remember
witnessing that week after weekand saying you know, no process
(05:10):
is perfect, but maybe I couldput my trust in this process.
I was feeling a call to go backto local church ministry.
Someone had pursued me to be achurch planter for their church
and I said, all right, I'minterested, I'm in, let's go
back to the local church.
And I said, all right, I'minterested, I'm in, let's go
back to the local church.
And I talked to my bishop andthe bishop said yeah, this
(05:30):
sounds great.
I talked to my DS at the time,was all in and it was a Sunday
night.
The DS said, all right, I'mgoing to go into the meeting
tomorrow, we're going to prayabout it and I'll give you the
good news tomorrow.
The next he calls me and saysso there's this church in South
Plainfield called Wesley and Iwas like where is South
Plainfield?
This was not what we talkedabout.
And I spent time in prayer withmy wife, julie, and we said you
(05:55):
know what?
Let's trust the process, let'strust the movement of the Holy
Spirit.
And we followed and we said weobeyed and we went to the church
and it was such a formativeexperience in my leadership.
It was a church going through adifficult time.
We saw great change, greattransition and great fruits of
ministry there and I grew somuch as a leader.
(06:17):
I would not be who I am todayif I did not go to that church.
That's great.
Jeff Bills (06:21):
That's a great story Really.
Just to kind of piggyback onthis conversation.
Having been in ministry now fordecades, I've seen other
processes play out.
So I've seen churches who don'thave a bishop appointing
somebody.
They have a call system wherethe local church makes the
(06:42):
decision, and that's not aperfect system either, and I've
watched churches go for a coupleof years without a pastor being
called or infighting overdebates about who should come,
and none of that happens in oursystem.
And none of that happens in oursystem.
(07:04):
So a Methodist church will notgo without a pastor for a long
period of time.
That's right.
Everybody gets appointed.
As James said, they start atthe beginning of July, and so
there are positives andnegatives to all systems, but
(07:25):
this one's pretty good,especially, james, as you
pointed out, when the people whohave that huge responsibility
of making these appointmentstake it that seriously Exactly.
Rick Court (07:37):
And so that's the process that we've been going
through here at Hope, with Jamesgetting appointed.
So our district superintendentmet with our leadership team,
there was a consultation andalso working with the bishop and
the cabinet, and the decisionwas made that James would be
appointed here in July.
So now that the formal processhas been processed and that's
(08:01):
the part that wasn't under ourcontrol we were trusting in the
process I know Sixers fans youdon't want to use that motto
right now because the Sixers arenot examples of a process you
can trust.
But what, as Pastor Jeff shareda few weeks ago or maybe a
month ago now, is that now wecan be transparent, moving
forward, now that we're beyondthe part that wasn't under our
(08:23):
control and we want to sharethat hope has had a process
that's been beyond the part thatwasn't under our control and we
want to share that hope has hada process that's been beyond
the process right.
And so, jeff, I know you and Italked that 20 years ago when we
first started getting to knoweach other, we were having
conversations about me coming tohope and we've told that story
multiple times.
But you and James have had asimilar process.
Jeff Bills (08:45):
Yeah.
So, as God would have it, jamesand I ended up in a cohort
together.
It was a group of four pastors.
One of the pastors, the seniorpastor at Haddonfield Methodist,
chris Heckert, reached out topastors that he said are doing
(09:06):
creative ministry, and you know,let's get together and talk
about what we're doing and shareideas and so forth, and so I
was excited about that and so Iknew Chris the other pastor was
in Mulliga Hill at the time andthis, james Lee, who I'd never I
(09:31):
don't know if I'd never met you, but I certainly didn't know
you, we didn't have extensiveconversations.
No, yeah, so he showed up, andso that's where I started to get
to know James and listen to theways that he was talking about
ministry and thinking aboutministry, and I was already on
(09:55):
kind of a search mission forwho's going to be the next lead
pastor.
And so, as much as I trust thesystem, nobody knows this church
better than I do, and so Iwanted to be able to have some
input when the time came, and sothat had me looking around and
(10:22):
so got to know him through thiscohort.
And then you and I got togetherfor some lunches that's right,
just the two of us and so it wasan informal interview going on
I don't know if it felt likethat to you, but that's what was
going on with me like that toyou.
James Lee (10:43):
But uh, but that's what was going on with me.
For me, I think at the time Iinterpreted as, um, I was
bringing value to you and kindof talking about online church
and online ministry and uh, Iwas very self selfishly, uh,
seeking leadership development,training, advices and uh, just
to grow my own leadership and Iwould just pick your brain, ask
these questions on leadership.
So I was like this is a greatopportunity to just pick Jeff
(11:06):
Bill's brain.
Jeff Bills (11:07):
Well, it was, and and obviously the conversations
went on and and it becameclearer and clearer to me that
that James would be a great, agreat lead pastor here at Hope
Church and I think there weresome defining moments.
(11:28):
I don't know if we want to getinto that right now, but around
the time that I was reallygetting interested I saw you
know so you talked about onSundays they announce these
appointments, right.
So one Sunday afternoon I checkout to see who had been
appointed and I see James Leehas been appointed as the
(11:51):
director of communications forthe conference and I was
distraught.
I thought, oh, I thought thisguy was like really into the
local church and now he's takingthis conference role, and so it
(12:12):
was a thinking right, it was acrisis of confidence.
James Lee (12:19):
There were a lot of colleagues who were like are you
sure you want to do this?
Yeah, there are a lot ofcolleagues who are like are you
sure?
Rick Court (12:25):
you want to do this?
Yeah, jade.
What were your initial thoughtswhen the conversation first
started?
James Lee (12:31):
So, the first time this was brought to my attention
was early last year.
The district superintendent,glenn Conaway, approached me.
So now that I was the directorof communications I was seeing
him pretty much every week andhe just asked me, point blank.
He said let me talk to you inyour office.
(12:51):
And he came in and said what doyou think about Hope Church?
And I said I think it's a greatchurch, it's an amazing church.
And he said, well, no, I meanif you were to be the pastor
there, church.
And he said well, no, I mean ifyou were to be the pastor there
.
And, uh, I had extreme.
(13:12):
Uh, my first reaction was no,there are so many more better
pastors out there who could leadhope and in fact they have
great pastors there already.
So and I said what about Rick?
Great pastors there already.
So and I said what about Rick?
Jeff Bills (13:26):
Wouldn't.
James Lee (13:26):
Rick be a great lead pastor for Hope.
And just to jump forward, Iknow, rick, when you and I first
had a very no strings attachedlunch, it was our first lunch.
Rick Court (13:37):
Yeah, our first lunch, yeah, yeah.
James Lee (13:39):
First lunch.
Rick Court (13:43):
I did ask you that question Pretty point blank.
You asked it out, it out of thegate.
I think we still had menus inour hands and you said to me,
why is Rick Court not going tobe the lead pastor at Hope?
And I'm like wow, this guydidn't pull any punches.
Jeff Bills (13:56):
When you were a part of a chorus of people asking
that question.
Okay, okay, yeah.
Rick Court (14:03):
And to all of them.
What I said to you was, first,I'm not in the appointment
process.
Traditionally I'm a localpastor, so it's different in
that sense.
But also, I'm not the right age, I'm not the right demographic
to follow Pastor Jeff, because Iwould do it for eight years and
then the church would be in thesame process all over again.
(14:27):
Personally, I don't think Ihave the right temperament.
I like my role, I like what Ido, I'm in a good spot.
It's a sweet spot for me and mygifts, my talents, I get to use
them and my deficiencies and myweaknesses get covered really
well in the role that I'm in andI am happy to be a partner in
(14:50):
ministry with the lead pastorand that's the role I have and
that's basically, I think, whatI said to you.
And then I ordered.
You know you ordered a pastramisandwich and I ordered.
James Lee (15:01):
I don't know what we ordered.
Jeff Bills (15:03):
I don't know what I ordered but I do remember that
answer, which is such a selflessanswer really.
Like you know, if it were allabout ego and so forth for Rick,
it would have been a verydifferent kind of discussion,
but such a selfless kind ofresponse, and the same would be
(15:26):
true of Heather and Dave, and sothat's what opened up this
opportunity for somebody who isnot currently on staff.
Yeah.
Rick Court (15:37):
And so now we've talked about the process behind
the process.
But, folks, there's still anongoing process, and we're
excited about that part too.
So now, james, you and yourfamily have been attending Hope
since last July, right June.
Last June, yep, yep, but eventhough you're not appointed
until this July coming up, youwere already involved in getting
(15:58):
to know the staff, the leadteam and the church, and how has
that been going so far?
James Lee (16:03):
Yeah.
So just to pull the veil alittle bit further, we moved to
the area, to Marlton, notknowing if the appointment would
happen.
But we knew that when we cameinto the area that Hope Church
is a church that we wanted to bea part of, and so we started
attending in the summer and gotto know folks and we fell in
(16:25):
love with the church.
Julie and I took a membershipclass because, again, we didn't
know if the appointment wouldhappen or not right.
It was something that wascompletely out of our hands and
we enjoyed the membership class.
Julie began volunteering at thefood pantry.
I began volunteering at themedia team in the back.
That's great.
Intro (16:45):
The cameras.
James Lee (16:47):
And we've fallen in love with the church, our kids
joined the kids choir.
Like it's where we've beenwelcomed and we feel like we're
part of the family.
Rick Court (16:56):
So yeah, that's great and that's kind of I love
that about watching you comethat you immediately decided
that being part of the localchurch meant that you
volunteered and that your familygot involved and got connected.
Jeff Bills (17:09):
I love that because that's kind of who we are A
little mantra that I've had overthe years that just fits in
with this so beautifully.
I always said you know, ifyou're not willing to serve,
you're not ready to lead.
I always said you know if you'renot willing to serve, you're
not ready to lead, and so thathad to do with people on our
lead team and stepping intopositions of leadership.
I wanted to see somebody thathas a servant heart, that you
(17:31):
know they're not looking forpositions of authority and so
forth, they just want to serve.
In those ways just speaksvolumes of your heart and just
another indication that this isthe right person for leading
(17:55):
this church forward and the nextgeneration.
Rick Court (18:00):
So, James, so what are?
Are there any?
It's named a few thing, or namesomething that you're excited
about or that you're lookingforward to as you get ready to
be the lead pastor in July.
James Lee (18:11):
I'm really excited to get to know and work with the
team.
So you know, in previousappointments at churches I
worked in communities where Iwas the only full-time staff.
We had full, part-time stafffolks.
But I love that there's a teamhere at hope and that that means
(18:33):
that we have people withdifferent gifts that can really
focus in on what they're good atwork together.
You say you love that you couldhide your deficiencies right, I
love that language because Ihave deficiencies too, and I
love that with the team we couldreally work together.
So that's what I'm reallylooking forward to getting to
know the team, working witheverybody on staff and on lead
(18:55):
team and beyond.
Rick Court (18:56):
So, yeah, I think it's fun, I think it's, I think
it's for me personally, it'sbringing a fresh perspective to
ministry.
James and I just had a meetingbeforehand and it was fun to
we're going through and I saidJeff and I had a dance and we
kind of dance a certain way andI said I have to learn your
moves.
Yeah, I'm trying to figure outwhat they are.
Which has been.
It's fresh and exciting.
(19:16):
It's kinda cool.
But, jeff, there's another Partof the process.
Is a change for you too?
Yeah, so you're going to titlechange.
I do, I do, yeah.
Jeff Bills (19:31):
So I officially retire.
Again, this is the process ofthe United Methodist Church.
I retire June 30th, jamesbecomes lead pastor July 1st.
But recognizing that this is aunique church within our area,
(19:51):
within this conference, andunique also because I'm the
founding pastor, so there arethings about this that make it a
unique kind of thing.
So lead team, recognizing that,wanted to extend the transition
period of time to give Jamesthe opportunity to kind of get
(20:18):
into the groove and find his waywith some support.
So you're going to besupporting him, of course, and
other members of the staff, butI'll be.
The title change is from leadpastor to founding pastor,
(20:47):
founding pastor.
So I'll have this new title andthis position of working
alongside James and the leadteam in a transition process,
and so that's still beingdeveloped, the job description
of that is still being developed, but I'm excited and honored
that I get to play some role inbringing James on board and
(21:09):
helping him and the staff do thedance.
Rick Court (21:15):
Yeah, I think it's a great decision, a great role.
Yeah, I'm super excited.
Intro (21:20):
I am very excited.
James Lee (21:24):
a great role.
Yeah, I'm super excited.
I am very excited.
This is something that I thinkis typically a weak point in our
process.
In the United Methodist process, which is typically June 30th,
the pastor says bye-bye and thenJuly 1st a new pastor comes in,
and if there is an intentionalmeeting between the two pastors,
oftentimes a lot of things fallthrough the cracks, through the
transition.
Things are lost in that.
(21:49):
But what a gift that I get towork with Jeff for a couple more
months and learn from him.
And I also plan even after youretire, jeff, I'm still going to
plan to reach out to you andstill keep you around and make
sure.
yeah, you tell me if I ambugging you, but I think, yeah,
that time where you'll be thefounding pastor and working with
us, I see that as a tremendousgift.
Jeff Bills (22:11):
Well, and you know, we're buying the house.
We talked about this onprevious podcasts.
Marilyn and I are buying theparsonage.
The new parsonage is now inMarlton, where James and Julie
live, and so we're going to beliving in the Voorhees area.
This is our community.
This is our church as well.
Yeah, and one of the things I'mexcited about and I'll probably
(22:33):
be saying this a bunch in thenext coming months for the first
time in 35 years, I'm going tohave a pastor.
First time in 35 years, I'mgoing to have a pastor.
So it's been a long time sinceI've had a pastor, and so for me
and for Marilyn to step intothis place of we get to serve
(22:56):
now and just be a part of thiscommunity in whatever ways makes
sense for us and for the church, and to serve however we can.
I'm excited about that.
Rick Court (23:14):
And so is that the answer to the question what are
you most hopeful about?
Jeff Bills (23:20):
Yeah, I mean it's part of it right.
You most hopeful about?
Yeah, I mean it's part of it,right.
So I am most hopeful that thischurch that started 35 years ago
is thriving and that it ispoised to do exceedingly,
abundantly more than we couldhope or even imagine.
Rick Court (23:41):
The best is yet to come, yeah.
Jeff Bills (23:42):
Best yet to come, for sure.
And so and I can't wait towatch it happen I'll be on the
sidelines cheering, cheering iton.
And so this appointment is sucha God thing.
And so, yeah, I'm profoundlyhopeful.
Rick Court (24:00):
Exciting.
Yeah Well, jeff, thank you.
Yeah Well, jeff.
Thank you, james.
Thanks and thank you listeners.
We're glad that you could joinus for this and if this is
something that you know somebodywould like to hear, we'd love
for you to share this podcastwith others.
And thanks a lot.
We'll see you all next time.
Intro (24:19):
Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we
continue our conversations aboutfaith and hope.
If you don't already, pleasejoin us for worship on Sundays
or on demand.
You can learn more atmeethopeorg or find us on
socials at Meet Hope Church.
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