February 24, 2025 • 20 mins
Pastor James Lee shares his inspiring journey of faith, growth, and finding his calling to ministry. Through transformative experiences, he reveals how he became a passionate advocate for community and service within the church.
Hear James talk about:
• James’s early influences in the church
• Wrestling with internal expectations and personal calling
• Discovering the church as a place for community service
• Emphasizing the value of engaging others' gifts in ministry
If you're enjoying the Meet Hope Podcast, subscribe and share it with your friends!
NOTES:
- Pastor James Lee's Bio: https://www.meethope.org/james-lee-bio-announcement
- Get to know James from previous podcast episodes!
- Episode 37: Bridging Faith and Technology: Finding Community Online - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2065910/episodes/13383952
- Episode 44: Exploring AI and ChatGPT's Impact on the Church with James Lee - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2065910/episodes/13403636
- Episode 77: Seeking Unity and Transformation: Updates from the United Methodist Church's 2024 General Conference - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2065910/episodes/15079867
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.online.church! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:03):
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Jeff Bills (00:22):
Welcome to Hope our world for the sake of others.
Welcome to Hope.
Hey, welcome everybody to theMeet Hope Podcast.
I'm Jeff Bills and I'm hostingthis episode, and I am here with
Pastor James Lee.
So, as you probably know, jamesis going to be lead pastor here
(00:44):
at Hope beginning July 1st.
Woo-hoo, woo.
We are very excited about thathere at Hope, and so we're using
the podcast format as a way tohelp you all get to know James a
little bit better, as he'spreparing to come.
And so, james, welcome to Hope.
James Lee (01:07):
Good to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Jeff Bills (01:10):
Wow, and you actually did a podcast with us
about a year ago or so.
James Lee (01:16):
Yeah, I think we did two episodes.
I believe one was on onlinechurch, yes, and we then talked
about AI.
Oh yeah, that was.
That's not a thing anymore.
Jeff Bills (01:28):
Oh my gosh, I knew zero about AI.
You and I were having aconversation preparing for the
podcast and so we said, hey,let's just talk about AI, and my
ignorance was on display.
I don't know much more, but alittle bit more.
So, as we're getting to knowyou, as folks are getting to
(01:50):
know you, obviously you've got awhole story that people are
going to get to know over theyears.
But we'd love to talk aboutkind of your spiritual story.
It starts with your background.
You were raised in the faithand I believe your dad was a
pastor, right?
James Lee (02:07):
That's right.
He retired two years ago.
He came from South Korea in the80s to study theology and I was
born here, so I'm KoreanAmerican, born and raised here.
My dad went through the UnitedMethodist process, was ordained
in the New York Conference andthat meant growing up in all
(02:31):
different churches.
So he was appointed topredominantly white rural
congregations.
He was the only non.
We were the only non-whitefamily in maybe a 200 mile
radius, and I remember living ina small parsonage where the
church was across the street andto our left was cornfields and
to our right was cornfields andthere were no one lived anywhere
(02:54):
near us.
Wow, and that's where we lived.
So I grew up in the church.
I grew up as a pastor's kid.
I remember when I was aboutseven I was attending church and
my dad was up in the pulpit.
He was preaching and I felt inmy heart what I now know was God
speaking to me and saying youwill do that one day you will be
(03:16):
a pastor one day.
Wow, and I shared it with my momand I imagine she may have been
having a rough week because shesaid oh no, no, no, you don't
need to be a pastor.
There are so many other waysthat you can honor God, so you
don't have to be a pastor.
That's hysterical and I tossedthat, what that?
(03:40):
Whatever that was, I justdecided to forget about it and
uh shove it away.
I grew up in the church.
I served as a youth groupleader.
I was a worship leader in ayouth group, but it wasn't up
until the sophomore year in highschool.
(04:01):
Up until that point I lived avery rules-based faith.
You know doing all the goodthings because I'm supposed to
trying to be a good example as apastor's kid, et cetera et
cetera.
Jeff Bills (04:13):
Yeah, so just to stop there for a moment.
So, being a pastor's kid, didyou feel that as a part of?
Did you feel that as a part ofyour whole identity, that I've
got this role because of mydad's position?
James Lee (04:32):
Yeah, absolutely there was a sense of there was a
lot of expectations in ourparticular ministry context,
especially that a pastor's kidshould behave a certain way, act
a certain way.
And uh, I think in differentstages of my life I responded
differently to that.
I think some years I was like,yeah, I will rise to the
(04:54):
challenge and I will be a goody.
Two shoes, and some years Irebelled very hard, uh.
So I kind of went back andforth on that Interesting Uh,
yeah.
So I kind of went back andforth on that.
Yeah, it was sophomore year inhigh school, in the summer.
I went to soccer tryouts in thesummer, okay, and came home and
(05:17):
had a severe pain in mytailbone, to the point where I
couldn't walk.
I was limping everywhere, I wascrawling everywhere.
I was like, oh no, I probablyhave to go to hospital.
But of course, being 15, 16,what was on my mind was I'm
supposed to go to Six Flags withmy friends tomorrow and I can't
(05:37):
go.
But I literally couldn't walk,I couldn't stand, I was crawling
everywhere and I rememberpraying the dumbest prayer.
I said Lord, if you're real.
I said then please heal me so Icould go to Six Flags tomorrow.
I know, looking back, this is sodumb, but very 15, very 15.
(05:57):
I prayed that prayer with asearnestly as I could and when I
was 15, I went to bed.
The next morning I wake up, Iget up, I go to the bathroom and
I start brushing my teeth and Irealized I'm standing and I
have no pain and I and somethingabout that experience as silly
as it was, something about thatexperience just changed
everything for me.
I remember at that point,suddenly all the Bible study,
(06:22):
bible stories that I learned asa child, all the things I
learned about grace became moreand more real.
Wow, I began to read the Bibleon my own and it just was an
exhilarating experience.
I remember it being such asweet experience reading
scripture from that point on.
Yeah, so that's when Iofficially gave my life to Jesus
(06:44):
.
Amazing At Six.
Jeff Bills (06:50):
Flags, riding roller coasters with my friends yeah,
well it's, you know, when it'scoupled with something so
exciting as that, what a coolstory that is so fast forward a
bit.
You had this seven-year-oldsense of calling that got put on
(07:11):
hold.
When did that reemerge that?
Yeah, I do feel God calling meinto full-time ministry.
James Lee (07:17):
Yeah, that reemerged at the end of college.
So I started college studyingat the Ernest Marriott School of
Pharmacy at Rutgers in NewBrunswick, transitioned to
ultimately graduate with a cellbio neuroscience degree.
So I was going the pre-medroute, I was exploring, probably
(07:40):
, a career in medicine in somekind career in medicine in some
kind, okay.
And uh, when I, as I wasapproaching graduation, uh, I
had actually a completelydifferent idea for myself.
So I went in medicine, cause Ithought that's a goody two-shoes
thing to do, that's the parentpleasing thing to do, yeah, uh.
But I always, uh, I for a longtime loved filmmaking and I
(08:04):
loved all things videoproduction and I was saying, you
know what, maybe I'll go tofilm school.
And I had this whole plan madeout to go to film school.
And it was about two monthsbefore graduating college that
God came knocking at my dooragain, when I was in the midst
(08:24):
of prayer to go and apply forseminary, and I wrestled with it
.
I wrestled with it for Iremember wrestling with it for
hours because I didn't want todo it and I began to look inward
.
Why do I not want to do this?
Why am I fighting this so hard?
Why?
do I not want to do this.
(08:45):
Why am I fighting this so hard?
And realizing that I hadinternalized what my mom said
all those years ago, and so Imade a phone call to Korea.
At that point, my parents hadmoved back to Korea.
Jeff Bills (08:57):
Okay.
James Lee (08:58):
And and I talked with my parents about it and my dad
had a very hard time hiding hisexcitement that his one of his
sons at least, is pursuing acareer in ministry and following
his footsteps.
But he was like you know, hewas like okay, so tell me more
about this, Right, and I couldtell he was excited.
(09:19):
But I was like, but give thephone to mom.
I need to talk to mom and sheasked me uh, what does Julie
think?
Because I was dating Julie atthe time.
Um, I was surprised.
Jeff Bills (09:32):
my mom asked me that , and so I did ask for those who
don't know Julie is your, julieis my now wife?
James Lee (09:37):
Yeah, praise the Lord .
Um, she was, yeah, so whenwe're dating, I was a pre-med
student.
Intro (09:45):
I'll marry you, doctor.
James Lee (09:46):
Yeah.
So I asked her and I thinknaively, but she said no, I knew
what I was doing.
She said I'll go with you iswhat Julie said.
And so I told God I will go toseminary but I won't be a pastor
(10:07):
.
And so that's how I got my footin the door to go to seminary.
And since then there's so manysteps along the way, but God has
just been warming my heart, onestep at a time, to surrender to
the call to be a pastor.
And now I'm very, yeah, justhonored that God was so patient
(10:28):
with me.
Jeff Bills (10:29):
I love that.
You know it's so interesting tome the number of pastors I know
myself included, pastor Rickincluded who did not want to go
into pastoral ministry andresisted that for varieties of
reasons, and you know God is sofaithful in using reluctant
(10:55):
people.
Yeah yeah, so at some pointalong the way, pastoral ministry
became your calling, right?
Yes, yes, yeah, what that looklike.
James Lee (11:14):
I think that was a slow process.
So when I started attendingseminary the church that I was
attending at the time, calvaryKorean United Methodist Church
in East Brunswick they werelooking for a children's
ministry pastor and I said, well, I could use the income, the
part-time income being a gradstudent is very expensive.
(11:37):
And so I started there Actually,after four years of that and
graduating seminary actually fora while, I said I'm done with
ministry and I went all out inmy other dream, which was to be
a filmmaker, and I started awedding film company.
(11:58):
Okay, and I did wedding filmsfor a few years and I made good
money.
I was very, very proud of whatI had done there.
And then I needed healthinsurance because we were having
kids and health insurance as abusiness owner is very expensive
, yeah.
And so the conference washiring for a video producer and
(12:19):
I said, well, they're offeringhealth insurance, so let me
apply.
Sure enough, I got the job.
Jeff Bills (12:25):
Now again, just for listeners who may not know,
conference is when we talk aboutthe conference, it's the
Greater New Jersey AnnualConference of the United
Methodist Church, so it's all ofthe United Methodist churches
within New Jersey, and so thisis the kind of administrative
structure, ministry structure ofour area Exactly.
James Lee (12:51):
So sort of the umbrella network of about 500 to
600 churches throughout NewJersey, and my job at the time
was to capture videos and videostories of churches that have
been helping with HurricaneSandy and video stories of
churches that have been helpingwith Hurricane Sandy.
And as I traveled up and downthe shore, I saw churches of all
(13:12):
shapes and sizes, churches thatwere very different from mine.
What I experienced, and I sawGod doing amazing things in and
through those churches, and itwas during that time that I
began to truly believe that thelocal church is the hope of the
world, that when there isbrokenness, when there is pain,
when there's suffering, what theworld needs is not better
(13:34):
legislation or better rules,which I mean all those things
are important, right, but whatthe world really needs is the
church to be the church.
Yes, things are important,right, but what the world really
needs is the church to be thechurch.
Yes, and uh, that is.
And when god came knockingagain, said okay, you had your,
you had your fun, it's time tocome back.
I was ready, I, I was.
I was like yes, lord, I'm ready.
(13:55):
Um, I'll go where you send me.
Jeff Bills (13:58):
so how cool he.
He lets you uh live into thatdream of video yeah, yeah, yeah,
that thing Right.
But the call came back.
Yeah, so you and I share thispassion for the local church.
The way I refer to the localchurch is it's God's dream
community that when the churchis functioning the way that God
(14:22):
intends the church to function,that there is no better system,
there's no better community inthe world than the local church,
as people care for each otherand support each other and
encourage each other andchallenge each other to live
into this faith.
When that's happening, it islife-giving and it is such a joy
(14:47):
to be a part of.
So when you think about thelocal church so you saw it
happening.
How do you describe the localchurch?
James Lee (15:00):
Yeah, I love that.
I'm going to steal that.
Jeff, God's dream community.
I just wrote that down.
That's something I willdefinitely take with me.
The church is 1 Corinthians 12.
It's the body of Christ.
When I think about the church,I see it as a gathering of
people who are living for others, are living for others, and so
(15:26):
typically, when I do likemembership class for churches, I
say are you sure you want totake a minute to become a member
of this church?
Because the moment that youjoin the church as a member, the
church stops being for you,because now you are the church
and and you are for others.
Right, and the church is forthe world, and so I think the
(15:50):
church is a gathering of notspiritual, consumers.
When the church really livesinto its calling, it's a network
and coming together ofspiritual contributors that are
no longer thinking what is it?
This is not a membership, it'snot a club where you say, hey,
what's in it for me?
It's right, the church is notfor you anymore.
(16:12):
You are the church and thechurch is for the world.
I love the way that Hope Churchtalks about discipleship.
A disciple is someone who is ona journey of being conformed
into the image of Christ for thesake of others.
Yes, of Christ for the sake ofothers.
Yes, I think that is the keypart of the key characteristic
of how a church is differentfrom any other organization.
(16:33):
I say the church is an organism, right, the body of Christ,
that is for the world.
Jeff Bills (16:39):
Yeah, so it's not about structures and so forth.
They exist in order for us todo the work that we're called to
do, exactly so, as pastor andyou've been a pastor of two,
three other churches- Threeother churches, so I was the
(17:02):
associate at Calvary Korean.
Okay.
James Lee (17:05):
And I led a small church in South River called
Conklin, and then I was atWesley, south Plainfield for
four and a half years.
Jeff Bills (17:17):
So in that role, what do you understand the
pastor's role to be in thecontext of the faith community?
James Lee (17:25):
I love that role to be in the context of faith
community.
Jeff Bills (17:27):
I love that.
James Lee (17:28):
So in Ephesians it talks about the leader of the
church being someone who equipsthe saints, and I see the pastor
as someone who is not supposedto do all the things but really
is to equip the church and torecognize the gifts of all the
(17:51):
different, all of God's people,and to elevate it, to bring it
out so that, uh, the world canbenefit from it and everyone can
experience more goodness in theworld.
So, uh, I often say a pastor isalways working themselves out
of a job.
Yeah, yeah, right.
Uh say a pastor is alwaysworking themselves out of a job.
Jeff Bills (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, right, uh, uh, because our role is to
step away and to lift up thepeople around us, and what a joy
I mean that that has been.
The great joy of of ministryhere is, uh, seeing people what
I describe as get in the game,right, that that they discover
that they've got some gifts,they've got passions and talents
and so forth, and as they startto use those and exercise those
(18:36):
and see God work around them,their faith just ignites, you
know, and they do things and getinvolved in things that they
never imagined, and the churchbenefits right, and so, yeah,
(18:57):
that's the great joy of the job.
It's kind of coaching, right,and cheerleading at the same
time.
That's it.
Yeah, cheerleading at the sametime, that's it, yeah.
Well, james, I'm excited aboutyour coming on board.
You've been here since lastJune, and so people have already
(19:20):
started to get to know you, andso it's going to be a very
natural thing, I think, as youstep into this role, and I'm
(19:49):
praying for you, praying forJulie, and I can't wait for
folks who haven't gotten to knowyou yet to be able to get to
know you and to hear from youand see where God leads this
church through you into thefuture.
So, friends, thanks for tuningin to this episode of Meet Hope
and we'll look forward to beingwith you again next week.
Intro (20:01):
Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we
continue our conversations aboutfaith and hope.
If you don't already, pleasejoin us for worship on Sundays
or on demand.
You can learn more atmeethopeorg or find us on
socials at meethopechurch.
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Jeff Bills (00:22):
Welcome to Hope our world for the sake of others.
Welcome to Hope.
Hey, welcome everybody to theMeet Hope Podcast.
I'm Jeff Bills and I'm hostingthis episode, and I am here with
Pastor James Lee.
So, as you probably know, jamesis going to be lead pastor here
(00:44):
at Hope beginning July 1st.
Woo-hoo, woo.
We are very excited about thathere at Hope, and so we're using
the podcast format as a way tohelp you all get to know James a
little bit better, as he'spreparing to come.
And so, james, welcome to Hope.
James Lee (01:07):
Good to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Jeff Bills (01:10):
Wow, and you actually did a podcast with us
about a year ago or so.
James Lee (01:16):
Yeah, I think we did two episodes.
I believe one was on onlinechurch, yes, and we then talked
about AI.
Oh yeah, that was.
That's not a thing anymore.
Jeff Bills (01:28):
Oh my gosh, I knew zero about AI.
You and I were having aconversation preparing for the
podcast and so we said, hey,let's just talk about AI, and my
ignorance was on display.
I don't know much more, but alittle bit more.
So, as we're getting to knowyou, as folks are getting to
(01:50):
know you, obviously you've got awhole story that people are
going to get to know over theyears.
But we'd love to talk aboutkind of your spiritual story.
It starts with your background.
You were raised in the faithand I believe your dad was a
pastor, right?
James Lee (02:07):
That's right.
He retired two years ago.
He came from South Korea in the80s to study theology and I was
born here, so I'm KoreanAmerican, born and raised here.
My dad went through the UnitedMethodist process, was ordained
in the New York Conference andthat meant growing up in all
(02:31):
different churches.
So he was appointed topredominantly white rural
congregations.
He was the only non.
We were the only non-whitefamily in maybe a 200 mile
radius, and I remember living ina small parsonage where the
church was across the street andto our left was cornfields and
to our right was cornfields andthere were no one lived anywhere
(02:54):
near us.
Wow, and that's where we lived.
So I grew up in the church.
I grew up as a pastor's kid.
I remember when I was aboutseven I was attending church and
my dad was up in the pulpit.
He was preaching and I felt inmy heart what I now know was God
speaking to me and saying youwill do that one day you will be
(03:16):
a pastor one day.
Wow, and I shared it with my momand I imagine she may have been
having a rough week because shesaid oh no, no, no, you don't
need to be a pastor.
There are so many other waysthat you can honor God, so you
don't have to be a pastor.
That's hysterical and I tossedthat, what that?
(03:40):
Whatever that was, I justdecided to forget about it and
uh shove it away.
I grew up in the church.
I served as a youth groupleader.
I was a worship leader in ayouth group, but it wasn't up
until the sophomore year in highschool.
(04:01):
Up until that point I lived avery rules-based faith.
You know doing all the goodthings because I'm supposed to
trying to be a good example as apastor's kid, et cetera et
cetera.
Jeff Bills (04:13):
Yeah, so just to stop there for a moment.
So, being a pastor's kid, didyou feel that as a part of?
Did you feel that as a part ofyour whole identity, that I've
got this role because of mydad's position?
James Lee (04:32):
Yeah, absolutely there was a sense of there was a
lot of expectations in ourparticular ministry context,
especially that a pastor's kidshould behave a certain way, act
a certain way.
And uh, I think in differentstages of my life I responded
differently to that.
I think some years I was like,yeah, I will rise to the
(04:54):
challenge and I will be a goody.
Two shoes, and some years Irebelled very hard, uh.
So I kind of went back andforth on that Interesting Uh,
yeah.
So I kind of went back andforth on that.
Yeah, it was sophomore year inhigh school, in the summer.
I went to soccer tryouts in thesummer, okay, and came home and
(05:17):
had a severe pain in mytailbone, to the point where I
couldn't walk.
I was limping everywhere, I wascrawling everywhere.
I was like, oh no, I probablyhave to go to hospital.
But of course, being 15, 16,what was on my mind was I'm
supposed to go to Six Flags withmy friends tomorrow and I can't
(05:37):
go.
But I literally couldn't walk,I couldn't stand, I was crawling
everywhere and I rememberpraying the dumbest prayer.
I said Lord, if you're real.
I said then please heal me so Icould go to Six Flags tomorrow.
I know, looking back, this is sodumb, but very 15, very 15.
(05:57):
I prayed that prayer with asearnestly as I could and when I
was 15, I went to bed.
The next morning I wake up, Iget up, I go to the bathroom and
I start brushing my teeth and Irealized I'm standing and I
have no pain and I and somethingabout that experience as silly
as it was, something about thatexperience just changed
everything for me.
I remember at that point,suddenly all the Bible study,
(06:22):
bible stories that I learned asa child, all the things I
learned about grace became moreand more real.
Wow, I began to read the Bibleon my own and it just was an
exhilarating experience.
I remember it being such asweet experience reading
scripture from that point on.
Yeah, so that's when Iofficially gave my life to Jesus
(06:44):
.
Amazing At Six.
Jeff Bills (06:50):
Flags, riding roller coasters with my friends yeah,
well it's, you know, when it'scoupled with something so
exciting as that, what a coolstory that is so fast forward a
bit.
You had this seven-year-oldsense of calling that got put on
(07:11):
hold.
When did that reemerge that?
Yeah, I do feel God calling meinto full-time ministry.
James Lee (07:17):
Yeah, that reemerged at the end of college.
So I started college studyingat the Ernest Marriott School of
Pharmacy at Rutgers in NewBrunswick, transitioned to
ultimately graduate with a cellbio neuroscience degree.
So I was going the pre-medroute, I was exploring, probably
(07:40):
, a career in medicine in somekind career in medicine in some
kind, okay.
And uh, when I, as I wasapproaching graduation, uh, I
had actually a completelydifferent idea for myself.
So I went in medicine, cause Ithought that's a goody two-shoes
thing to do, that's the parentpleasing thing to do, yeah, uh.
But I always, uh, I for a longtime loved filmmaking and I
(08:04):
loved all things videoproduction and I was saying, you
know what, maybe I'll go tofilm school.
And I had this whole plan madeout to go to film school.
And it was about two monthsbefore graduating college that
God came knocking at my dooragain, when I was in the midst
(08:24):
of prayer to go and apply forseminary, and I wrestled with it
.
I wrestled with it for Iremember wrestling with it for
hours because I didn't want todo it and I began to look inward
.
Why do I not want to do this?
Why am I fighting this so hard?
Why?
do I not want to do this.
(08:45):
Why am I fighting this so hard?
And realizing that I hadinternalized what my mom said
all those years ago, and so Imade a phone call to Korea.
At that point, my parents hadmoved back to Korea.
Jeff Bills (08:57):
Okay.
James Lee (08:58):
And and I talked with my parents about it and my dad
had a very hard time hiding hisexcitement that his one of his
sons at least, is pursuing acareer in ministry and following
his footsteps.
But he was like you know, hewas like okay, so tell me more
about this, Right, and I couldtell he was excited.
(09:19):
But I was like, but give thephone to mom.
I need to talk to mom and sheasked me uh, what does Julie
think?
Because I was dating Julie atthe time.
Um, I was surprised.
Jeff Bills (09:32):
my mom asked me that , and so I did ask for those who
don't know Julie is your, julieis my now wife?
James Lee (09:37):
Yeah, praise the Lord .
Um, she was, yeah, so whenwe're dating, I was a pre-med
student.
Intro (09:45):
I'll marry you, doctor.
James Lee (09:46):
Yeah.
So I asked her and I thinknaively, but she said no, I knew
what I was doing.
She said I'll go with you iswhat Julie said.
And so I told God I will go toseminary but I won't be a pastor
(10:07):
.
And so that's how I got my footin the door to go to seminary.
And since then there's so manysteps along the way, but God has
just been warming my heart, onestep at a time, to surrender to
the call to be a pastor.
And now I'm very, yeah, justhonored that God was so patient
(10:28):
with me.
Jeff Bills (10:29):
I love that.
You know it's so interesting tome the number of pastors I know
myself included, pastor Rickincluded who did not want to go
into pastoral ministry andresisted that for varieties of
reasons, and you know God is sofaithful in using reluctant
(10:55):
people.
Yeah yeah, so at some pointalong the way, pastoral ministry
became your calling, right?
Yes, yes, yeah, what that looklike.
James Lee (11:14):
I think that was a slow process.
So when I started attendingseminary the church that I was
attending at the time, calvaryKorean United Methodist Church
in East Brunswick they werelooking for a children's
ministry pastor and I said, well, I could use the income, the
part-time income being a gradstudent is very expensive.
(11:37):
And so I started there Actually,after four years of that and
graduating seminary actually fora while, I said I'm done with
ministry and I went all out inmy other dream, which was to be
a filmmaker, and I started awedding film company.
(11:58):
Okay, and I did wedding filmsfor a few years and I made good
money.
I was very, very proud of whatI had done there.
And then I needed healthinsurance because we were having
kids and health insurance as abusiness owner is very expensive
, yeah.
And so the conference washiring for a video producer and
(12:19):
I said, well, they're offeringhealth insurance, so let me
apply.
Sure enough, I got the job.
Jeff Bills (12:25):
Now again, just for listeners who may not know,
conference is when we talk aboutthe conference, it's the
Greater New Jersey AnnualConference of the United
Methodist Church, so it's all ofthe United Methodist churches
within New Jersey, and so thisis the kind of administrative
structure, ministry structure ofour area Exactly.
James Lee (12:51):
So sort of the umbrella network of about 500 to
600 churches throughout NewJersey, and my job at the time
was to capture videos and videostories of churches that have
been helping with HurricaneSandy and video stories of
churches that have been helpingwith Hurricane Sandy.
And as I traveled up and downthe shore, I saw churches of all
(13:12):
shapes and sizes, churches thatwere very different from mine.
What I experienced, and I sawGod doing amazing things in and
through those churches, and itwas during that time that I
began to truly believe that thelocal church is the hope of the
world, that when there isbrokenness, when there is pain,
when there's suffering, what theworld needs is not better
(13:34):
legislation or better rules,which I mean all those things
are important, right, but whatthe world really needs is the
church to be the church.
Yes, things are important,right, but what the world really
needs is the church to be thechurch.
Yes, and uh, that is.
And when god came knockingagain, said okay, you had your,
you had your fun, it's time tocome back.
I was ready, I, I was.
I was like yes, lord, I'm ready.
(13:55):
Um, I'll go where you send me.
Jeff Bills (13:58):
so how cool he.
He lets you uh live into thatdream of video yeah, yeah, yeah,
that thing Right.
But the call came back.
Yeah, so you and I share thispassion for the local church.
The way I refer to the localchurch is it's God's dream
community that when the churchis functioning the way that God
(14:22):
intends the church to function,that there is no better system,
there's no better community inthe world than the local church,
as people care for each otherand support each other and
encourage each other andchallenge each other to live
into this faith.
When that's happening, it islife-giving and it is such a joy
(14:47):
to be a part of.
So when you think about thelocal church so you saw it
happening.
How do you describe the localchurch?
James Lee (15:00):
Yeah, I love that.
I'm going to steal that.
Jeff, God's dream community.
I just wrote that down.
That's something I willdefinitely take with me.
The church is 1 Corinthians 12.
It's the body of Christ.
When I think about the church,I see it as a gathering of
people who are living for others, are living for others, and so
(15:26):
typically, when I do likemembership class for churches, I
say are you sure you want totake a minute to become a member
of this church?
Because the moment that youjoin the church as a member, the
church stops being for you,because now you are the church
and and you are for others.
Right, and the church is forthe world, and so I think the
(15:50):
church is a gathering of notspiritual, consumers.
When the church really livesinto its calling, it's a network
and coming together ofspiritual contributors that are
no longer thinking what is it?
This is not a membership, it'snot a club where you say, hey,
what's in it for me?
It's right, the church is notfor you anymore.
(16:12):
You are the church and thechurch is for the world.
I love the way that Hope Churchtalks about discipleship.
A disciple is someone who is ona journey of being conformed
into the image of Christ for thesake of others.
Yes, of Christ for the sake ofothers.
Yes, I think that is the keypart of the key characteristic
of how a church is differentfrom any other organization.
(16:33):
I say the church is an organism, right, the body of Christ,
that is for the world.
Jeff Bills (16:39):
Yeah, so it's not about structures and so forth.
They exist in order for us todo the work that we're called to
do, exactly so, as pastor andyou've been a pastor of two,
three other churches- Threeother churches, so I was the
(17:02):
associate at Calvary Korean.
Okay.
James Lee (17:05):
And I led a small church in South River called
Conklin, and then I was atWesley, south Plainfield for
four and a half years.
Jeff Bills (17:17):
So in that role, what do you understand the
pastor's role to be in thecontext of the faith community?
James Lee (17:25):
I love that role to be in the context of faith
community.
Jeff Bills (17:27):
I love that.
James Lee (17:28):
So in Ephesians it talks about the leader of the
church being someone who equipsthe saints, and I see the pastor
as someone who is not supposedto do all the things but really
is to equip the church and torecognize the gifts of all the
(17:51):
different, all of God's people,and to elevate it, to bring it
out so that, uh, the world canbenefit from it and everyone can
experience more goodness in theworld.
So, uh, I often say a pastor isalways working themselves out
of a job.
Yeah, yeah, right.
Uh say a pastor is alwaysworking themselves out of a job.
Jeff Bills (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, right, uh, uh, because our role is to
step away and to lift up thepeople around us, and what a joy
I mean that that has been.
The great joy of of ministryhere is, uh, seeing people what
I describe as get in the game,right, that that they discover
that they've got some gifts,they've got passions and talents
and so forth, and as they startto use those and exercise those
(18:36):
and see God work around them,their faith just ignites, you
know, and they do things and getinvolved in things that they
never imagined, and the churchbenefits right, and so, yeah,
(18:57):
that's the great joy of the job.
It's kind of coaching, right,and cheerleading at the same
time.
That's it.
Yeah, cheerleading at the sametime, that's it, yeah.
Well, james, I'm excited aboutyour coming on board.
You've been here since lastJune, and so people have already
(19:20):
started to get to know you, andso it's going to be a very
natural thing, I think, as youstep into this role, and I'm
(19:49):
praying for you, praying forJulie, and I can't wait for
folks who haven't gotten to knowyou yet to be able to get to
know you and to hear from youand see where God leads this
church through you into thefuture.
So, friends, thanks for tuningin to this episode of Meet Hope
and we'll look forward to beingwith you again next week.
Intro (20:01):
Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we
continue our conversations aboutfaith and hope.
If you don't already, pleasejoin us for worship on Sundays
or on demand.
You can learn more atmeethopeorg or find us on
socials at meethopechurch.
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