June 30, 2025 • 22 mins
What does it mean to actively wait in a season of transition or when we find ourselves in the wilderness with God?
On this special episode, Pastor Jeff and Pastor James join Communications Director Ashley Black to discuss the significant leadership transition at Hope Church, reflecting on the nature of transition as "when what is is becoming what was and what's next is becoming what is."
They offer encouragement to anyone going through a major transition in their own lives with the gentle reminder that "God isn't in a hurry, so you don't need to be either."
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.online.church! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Enjoy what you heard? Be sure to rate us on Apple Podcasts and click the subscribe button so you don't miss new episodes every Monday!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Welcome to Hope our world forthe sake of others.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Hope.
Hi everyone, welcome to theMeet Hope podcast.
My name is Ashley Black and I'mhappy to be here with you, and
also today I'm here with PastorJeff and Pastor James.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Hi guys.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hey, how are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Doing great Ashley.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Yeah, had a great Father's Day, a lot of food in
me.
So I feel good, oh good, that'sawesome, that's Day A lot of
food in me, so I feel good,that's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So we are here today to talk about transition.
It is the theme of the entiremonth.
It's been the theme for a longtime, but it's become a bigger
theme this month.
Jeff, it's what your preachingseries is on.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
It's like it's my whole life.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Rightly so, I'm sure it does, or at least so I'm sure
it does.
I know there's lots of movingpieces like physical office
moving pieces and emotional,spiritual moving pieces, and so
I thought we would talk aboutsome of that.
Let's start by talking abouttransition.
We thought we'd talk about justlike the general topic of
transition.
For anybody that maybe justeven the word transition is like
(01:19):
uh, not sure about that word.
So when you guys both think oftransition just as a general
theme, what would you say comesto mind?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
The definition I've come up just for myself is a
transition is when what is isbecoming what was and what's
next is becoming what is.
So it's that time in betweenthe now and that which is to
(01:48):
come, and so one is waning andthe other is just beginning.
So it is that strange inbetween time.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Yeah, I love that.
I love the teaching series weare in the midst of it right now
, jeff and love that definitionthat you came up with with
transition, because change andtransition are very similar, but
there is this difference to itas well.
Right, when I think oftransition, I think of the
Exodus story of the Israelitesgoing from Egypt to the Promised
(02:18):
Land, and there is this time inthe wilderness that is chaotic.
You used the word chaos in whatyou're teaching.
I love that, but it's a veryintentional time too, the 40
years.
It must have felt like forever,but a lot happens during those
40 years to prepare the peoplefor the promised land.
I think of transition as notjust the change of our external
(02:44):
circumstances, but also there'san internal formation that
happens during transition.
So I think of that wildernessimage especially.
That Exodus story really helpscapture transition well.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, I mean, I think the process of transition is
what's so significant, and sothere is this time period, and
it could be as long as 40 years.
Thankfully, it's not going tobe our situation here, but the
transition we're in right nowfor me is a couple of years old,
(03:19):
and likewise, I guess, for you.
James.
Yeah, it's this movement fromthe thing I'm doing right now,
the person I am right now, theplace I'm in right now, to where
God's calling me next, and he'sdoing this work in us and
around us to prepare us asindividuals and, in our case, as
(03:40):
a community of faith for thatthing that's coming.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
What are some of the common fears or
misunderstandings you thinkpeople might have about a time
of transition?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
It's the unknown.
I guess, ultimately, that evenwhen I know or I think I know
what's next, you know.
So for me it's retirement, foryou, james, it's.
You're taking on this new roleI know what it is, but I don't
know what it is.
And so the questions that thatraises in me is so, where is
(04:13):
this going to take me and who amI going to be now in this new
reality and do I have what ittakes to live into that?
It takes to live into that and,and so those questions, um, can
be anxiety producing Um and uh,and that unknown uh can be, can
(04:39):
be scary, um, but it's also,you know, for the other side of
that is it's also an adventure,right?
So I don't know the answer tothose things and I'm looking
forward to finding that out andliving into that.
So I guess that's how I thinkabout that, yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
When I think of common misunderstandings,
especially in the midst oftransition, is oftentimes we
have a negative connotation forwhen things are uncertain or
seemingly not stable, andsometimes we equate stability
with health.
But I think about theIsraelites when they complained
to Moses about how, back inEgypt, we got to eat all kinds
(05:19):
of food, all kinds of meat andfruits.
It was great there.
Why did you have to take us outof Egypt?
I mean sure, the whole slaverything.
But Right, right, right, likeno stability.
Quote unquote stability inEgypt was slavery right, and so
that's so interesting.
So that might be onemisunderstanding.
Yeah, in transition, things aregoing to be a bit disorienting.
(05:41):
Things are going to bedifferent.
A bit disorienting, things aregoing to be different.
Avoid the word chaos.
But even chaos God created theuniverse in, with the spirit
hovering over the chaos inGenesis, one like there's
there's beauty in theuncertainty, and new things do
arise from that.
And so you know, when things area bit, when there's a bit of
(06:01):
turbulence, like I think, wehave to remember hey, we're in
this together, god is with usand God is taking us into
something new.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I love that reminder that as you were talking, James,
I was reminded of the entirestory of God is one of mostly
transition.
It is always moving towardssomething else, even if you just
read scripture, right, so Ithink that's a really lovely
reminder.
You just read scripture, right,like, so I think that's really
a really lovely reminder.
So, when we talk about thisparticular transition, what and
(06:30):
this is something you both havebeen working around together for
a while now, and we've talkedabout it on the podcast before
but what would you say?
This current transition hastaught each of you so far,
because it's still ongoing, andI'm sure your answer was
different six months ago andit's probably going to be
different six months from now.
(06:50):
But where you are today, whatwould you say?
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Jeff, we've been talking about this from a long
time ago.
We've both been learning aboutactive waiting.
That has been a homework thatboth of us were not too fond of.
We were hoping that this wouldhave happened sooner.
We're like God.
Why is this taking so long?
But in the waiting, god hasbeen teaching us active waiting,
(07:16):
indeed, and also just thewisdom After the fact we go oh
yeah, god knew what he was doing.
After the fact we go oh yeah,god knew what he was doing.
And there were so many thingsthat I realized a year ago I was
not ready.
There was so much that happenedin the past year to prepare me
(07:36):
further for this transition andso I thought I was ready.
But looking back at a year ago,I go oh yeah, I was not ready
then.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, interesting.
Well, it's funny.
Marilyn has said to me overthat year that the church wasn't
ready.
In some ways, I wasn't readyeither, and she's very wise and
so I believe her.
Yeah, you know, god alwayswrites a better story, and so
(08:07):
what I thought was the best way,I'm now convinced no, this is
the better story, and that'sexciting too right that this
whole journey for me this35-year and for me it's really
more like 37-year journey isseeing that play out, that God
(08:31):
writes a better story and thatwhen I trust him and do the act
of waiting and take the nextstep and do the courageous thing
in faith that God is there, godshows up in ways that I could
not have envisioned until I tookthat step.
And so that's just a lessonthat I learn over and over and
(08:57):
experience over and over again.
And here it is again the thingthat we see throughout scripture
.
And here it is again.
Yeah, the thing that we seethroughout scripture, right, is
always looking back andremembering what God has done.
Yeah, right, it's alwayslooking back and saying,
remember when or remember howGod was at work in that time and
(09:18):
in that place, and I guess that, in a lot of ways, that is what
the role is going to be, andthen staying out of the way a
lot.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I think that's a really such a gift that you just
shared, jeff, that when I wasthinking about when we're in the
thick of a transition and Jamesyou mentioned it can feel like
chaos, but that's not always abad thing, but it can feel like
really intense, like we can onlysee what's right in front of us
, and to have that like someonewho is almost like a historian
saying, yeah, but look, god didthis over here before and
(09:59):
remember that time we've thisfelt really intense.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
God took us here and so yeah, we were talking before
we started recording this abouthow this role looks and how to
talk about it, and I've beenstruggling for words and images
and so forth and trying to bereally careful about saying what
(10:22):
it's not.
So I'm not going to be thepastor.
The image, james, that you werejust sharing about it's sort of
like the grandfather.
Yeah, yeah, right, right.
So I'm not a grandfather.
I don't have that firsthandexperience at this point, but I
know a lot of granddads.
(10:42):
A lot of my friends aregrandfathers, and watching them
and how they relate to theiradult son and then how they
relate to their grandchildren isprobably a pretty good image.
That in the best case scenario,the grandfather is a support
(11:03):
and then just hanging out withthe grandkids and just enjoying
being in their midst, and sothere's there's probably in that
, in that description, some ideaof what, what I guess, this
role of founding pastor willlook like.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
And I also want to just name how grateful I am that
you agreed to take on this role.
This is something that I askedyou if you'd be interested in
and ask the lead team, becauseit's not very common.
I know a lot of churches thatdon't do this Actually, most
churches do not do this but Ithink the story that God has
(11:42):
written for Hope was veryspecial.
You're the founding pastor.
You planted this church 35years ago.
You know this church betterthan anyone, and to have you as
a sounding board and again to bethat grandfather figure of the
church would be a blessing forus, right?
(12:02):
I know my parents love to spoilmy kids.
Sometimes I tell them to stop.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
They had enough sugar .
Right, but right.
But at the same time there's somuch wisdom.
I love being able to talk to mymom and my dad when I do hit a
roadblock, like, hey, what aresome ideas here?
Help me out.
But ultimately they also allowme to lead my family and serve
(12:31):
my family.
So I think that image you knowmetaphor is perfect.
But I thought that image bestencapsulates what founding
pastor might look like.
What do you think, jeff?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, and I think that's it's new and so I'm
kicking around and that guess,that means Marilyn's grandma.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
And it's not mine, by the way.
I don't remember exactly whereit was, but, jeff, you and I
have been—a lot of largechurches have been going through
transitions this year, so we'vejust been sharing news,
articles, videos and whenever wesee another transition
happening, and it was from oneof these videos that this pastor
described himself as I'm notgoing anywhere but I'm going to
(13:10):
be like a granddad, you have anew lead pastor.
He's going to be great, butI'll be around with some candy
in my pocket.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Causing a little trouble.
And really you know, causinggood trouble, causing a little
bit of good trouble.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
God's timing in all of this.
You know, just back to that ideathat you know you being ready
now, more than you were a yearago.
And likewise for me I am readyto transition out of the role of
lead pastor.
I am not leaving feeling like Ididn't accomplish what I wanted
to or that there was more Iwanted to do.
I really feel like this is theright time and so it's not
(13:54):
difficult for me to move out ofthis role and I'm excited for
you and where this is going totake this church, where you're
going to take this church, whereGod is going to be leading, and
to have the joy and theprivilege of kind of being in
(14:17):
the community as it's unfoldingis a tremendous blessing and a
gift and I just want to be likea part of the congregation.
I just, you know, I just amlooking forward to being in that
position of you know, cheeringit on, and if there's anything
(14:40):
I'm asked to do to support it to, you know to certainly do that
and but I don't really need tobe in any kind of leadership
role, I'm certainly do that anduh, but I don't really need to
to uh, be in any kind ofleadership role.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I'm I'm good with that, uh which I I can say as a
staff member.
Jeff, you know you shared thatwith us recently at a meeting
and you said, like guys, I'mgood, I'm ready.
And hearing someone inleadership who was leading, you
say that like is very um.
Hearing someone in leadershipwho was leading you say that
like is very um, like settled,like grounding, like to be like
okay, cool, he's good, so we canbe good, so we can be good for
(15:12):
the next thing, like um.
So I just appreciate your kindof openness in in sharing those
things.
Um.
Are there any more practicalthings that we should be sharing
with people who are listening,such as will you have an office?
You know all that kind oflittle stuff that maybe
someone's listening on a Sunday.
They've heard, but if they'reonly listening to the podcast,
they haven't heard.
(15:32):
I just don't know if there'sanything like that that we
should clear up for anybody.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Well, I won't have an office.
Carol has agreed to allow me toshare a cubicle, graciously
agreed.
Agreed, I'll have a home office, of course, and those times
that I'm in the building, youknow, there's generally a room I
can grab if I'm meeting withsomebody.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, one thing that comes to mind is a lot of people
are asking about staff changesspecifically.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Like is.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Carol still going to be around.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I asked her.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
She said she wants to stay.
I said thank God.
We all were like is Carol stillgoing to be around?
That's a good question.
I asked her.
She said she wants to stay.
I said thank God.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
We all were like yay.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Just leaving, no problem.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Carol.
That would be a problem I wasjoking with.
We were teasing Rick that Carolran out to get Aaron's full
disclosure.
She's still very much here.
But we were looking for her andDave went oh yeah, james is
starting and.
But we were looking for her andDave went oh yeah, james is
starting, and so she's going tobe done and we were like just
kidding, Just kidding, oh gosh,Please no.
I think I said please stay.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
I think that's what I said to her, but I'm very
excited and she's excited, she's, yeah, I'm very excited to be,
working with her too.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
One important one that comes to mind as the
communications person here iscontacting you, james right.
So, as lead pastor, your emailwill be, or it exists.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
It's working now, james, at meet hopeorg.
Great yeah, send me an email,let me know.
Say hi.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Flood the inbox.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
There you go yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And mine is founder at your eminence.
Nobody can spell it still, jeffgreat.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
well, as we start to wrap up, I was wondering in
moments like this I like torefer them as kind of like hinge
moments, so it's like the inbetween space between one thing
and another thing what would yousay helps you stay grounded or
stay rooted?
Is there any like scripture youreturn to or any practices that
have kept you?
James, you said earlier, likestability is not always what we
(17:43):
need, but kind of steady in ashifting moment, what we need,
but?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
kind of steady in a shifting moment.
I still remember how talkingwith you, Jeff, even with Rick
and Heather like why is thistaking so long?
Was a phrase we would say often.
But one thing that I've learnedis that God is not in a hurry,
even if we feel like we shouldbe, and so we can trust that God
(18:10):
is writing something, the rightstory, and so not to try to
skip the wilderness, because Ithink that is where we meet God,
that is the meeting place wherewe see God often.
So take your time.
God knows what he's doing.
God's not in a hurry, so youdon't have to be either.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
And the scripture that just recently came to me
and I shared it in a messagerecently Isaiah 40, 31, those
who wait upon the Lord shallrenew their strength.
They'll mount up on wings likeeagles, They'll run and not grow
weary.
They'll walk and not faint.
And so that act of waitingagain it's renewing that God is
(18:53):
not just letting us languishsomewhere, that, as we're
trusting him, he's renewing us,he's strengthening us and
preparing us for that which isto come.
So, yeah, that's what thisseason represents, I think, for
us.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
It's a season of renewal.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
And you kind of both already answered this question
in your answers.
But is there any otherencouragement you would offer to
someone in their own season ofchange in their life?
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I would say, listen to the this sermon series at
meet hopeorg.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Meet hopeorg slash on demand or YouTube at meet hope
church, because I think pastorJeff is has a tremendous
teaching this month.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
So even this past Sunday was Julie and I are still
talking about it, so I thinkthe teaching is something that I
think would really help equipanyone going through a
transition.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
That's very kind.
Yeah, I mean, don't miss this.
The other thing that there was atime, even in this most recent
transition so I'm a work inprogress still so it's not that
I've arrived on this activewaiting and trusting God in the
in-between time.
So there was a point where itwas clear that the timing that I
(20:15):
wanted for you to come, james,was not to be, and I was feeling
discouraged.
And we were in a lead teammeeting and members of the team
began to speak into that and sayyou know that same thing We've
seen God in the past and thatour timing hasn't always been
(20:37):
the right timing.
And so let's trust God now withthis timing.
And so I would say that as well, that God has not abandoned you
, that God is with you and foryou, that this time is valuable,
and so don't miss it.
That this time is valuable andso don't miss it, don't miss out
(20:59):
on the lessons that God wantsto teach you and the things that
God is doing in you in thisseason of transition.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Yeah, Like the chaos is not punishment but the chaos
is sacred yeah.
God is there, and God is goingto lead you through it.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
And you'll look back on that and thank God for it.
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I love that.
So thank you everyone everyonefor listening today and thank
you to pastor Jeff and pastorJames for being here and doing
this conversation with us.
We're excited for pastor James,for you to officially start as
lead pastor on July 1st andthere's going to be lots of
opportunities to meet you.
So we have meet and greets thatare listed on our events
calendar all through in July andAugust.
(21:49):
They're all on Wednesdayevenings and they're all
informal.
They're all in person exceptthere.
Ask that you RSVP so we canmake sure we have enough
refreshments for everyone that'sthere and it's meant to be
informal and fun and a way toget to know Pastor James and
hang out together.
And please share this podcastwith someone you know who is in
the Hope community, who youthink might benefit from hearing
(22:11):
about it, or also someone youknow who's just going through a
transition and maybe they can beencouraged by the words of
Pastor Jeff and Pastor Jamestoday.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So thank you for listening and we will see you
next time.
If you don't already, pleasejoin us for worship on Sundays
or on demand.
You can learn more atmeethopeorg or find us on
(22:39):
socials at meethopechurch.
Welcome to the Meet Hope podcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Welcome to Hope our world forthe sake of others.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Hope.
Hi everyone, welcome to theMeet Hope podcast.
My name is Ashley Black and I'mhappy to be here with you, and
also today I'm here with PastorJeff and Pastor James.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Hi guys.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hey, how are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Doing great Ashley.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Yeah, had a great Father's Day, a lot of food in
me.
So I feel good, oh good, that'sawesome, that's Day A lot of
food in me, so I feel good,that's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So we are here today to talk about transition.
It is the theme of the entiremonth.
It's been the theme for a longtime, but it's become a bigger
theme this month.
Jeff, it's what your preachingseries is on.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
It's like it's my whole life.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Rightly so, I'm sure it does, or at least so I'm sure
it does.
I know there's lots of movingpieces like physical office
moving pieces and emotional,spiritual moving pieces, and so
I thought we would talk aboutsome of that.
Let's start by talking abouttransition.
We thought we'd talk about justlike the general topic of
transition.
For anybody that maybe justeven the word transition is like
(01:19):
uh, not sure about that word.
So when you guys both think oftransition just as a general
theme, what would you say comesto mind?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
The definition I've come up just for myself is a
transition is when what is isbecoming what was and what's
next is becoming what is.
So it's that time in betweenthe now and that which is to
(01:48):
come, and so one is waning andthe other is just beginning.
So it is that strange inbetween time.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Yeah, I love that.
I love the teaching series weare in the midst of it right now
, jeff and love that definitionthat you came up with with
transition, because change andtransition are very similar, but
there is this difference to itas well.
Right, when I think oftransition, I think of the
Exodus story of the Israelitesgoing from Egypt to the Promised
(02:18):
Land, and there is this time inthe wilderness that is chaotic.
You used the word chaos in whatyou're teaching.
I love that, but it's a veryintentional time too, the 40
years.
It must have felt like forever,but a lot happens during those
40 years to prepare the peoplefor the promised land.
I think of transition as notjust the change of our external
(02:44):
circumstances, but also there'san internal formation that
happens during transition.
So I think of that wildernessimage especially.
That Exodus story really helpscapture transition well.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, I mean, I think the process of transition is
what's so significant, and sothere is this time period, and
it could be as long as 40 years.
Thankfully, it's not going tobe our situation here, but the
transition we're in right nowfor me is a couple of years old,
(03:19):
and likewise, I guess, for you.
James.
Yeah, it's this movement fromthe thing I'm doing right now,
the person I am right now, theplace I'm in right now, to where
God's calling me next, and he'sdoing this work in us and
around us to prepare us asindividuals and, in our case, as
(03:40):
a community of faith for thatthing that's coming.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
What are some of the common fears or
misunderstandings you thinkpeople might have about a time
of transition?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
It's the unknown.
I guess, ultimately, that evenwhen I know or I think I know
what's next, you know.
So for me it's retirement, foryou, james, it's.
You're taking on this new roleI know what it is, but I don't
know what it is.
And so the questions that thatraises in me is so, where is
(04:13):
this going to take me and who amI going to be now in this new
reality and do I have what ittakes to live into that?
It takes to live into that and,and so those questions, um, can
be anxiety producing Um and uh,and that unknown uh can be, can
(04:39):
be scary, um, but it's also,you know, for the other side of
that is it's also an adventure,right?
So I don't know the answer tothose things and I'm looking
forward to finding that out andliving into that.
So I guess that's how I thinkabout that, yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
When I think of common misunderstandings,
especially in the midst oftransition, is oftentimes we
have a negative connotation forwhen things are uncertain or
seemingly not stable, andsometimes we equate stability
with health.
But I think about theIsraelites when they complained
to Moses about how, back inEgypt, we got to eat all kinds
(05:19):
of food, all kinds of meat andfruits.
It was great there.
Why did you have to take us outof Egypt?
I mean sure, the whole slaverything.
But Right, right, right, likeno stability.
Quote unquote stability inEgypt was slavery right, and so
that's so interesting.
So that might be onemisunderstanding.
Yeah, in transition, things aregoing to be a bit disorienting.
(05:41):
Things are going to bedifferent.
A bit disorienting, things aregoing to be different.
Avoid the word chaos.
But even chaos God created theuniverse in, with the spirit
hovering over the chaos inGenesis, one like there's
there's beauty in theuncertainty, and new things do
arise from that.
And so you know, when things area bit, when there's a bit of
(06:01):
turbulence, like I think, wehave to remember hey, we're in
this together, god is with usand God is taking us into
something new.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I love that reminder that as you were talking, James,
I was reminded of the entirestory of God is one of mostly
transition.
It is always moving towardssomething else, even if you just
read scripture, right, so Ithink that's a really lovely
reminder.
You just read scripture, right,like, so I think that's really
a really lovely reminder.
So, when we talk about thisparticular transition, what and
(06:30):
this is something you both havebeen working around together for
a while now, and we've talkedabout it on the podcast before
but what would you say?
This current transition hastaught each of you so far,
because it's still ongoing, andI'm sure your answer was
different six months ago andit's probably going to be
different six months from now.
(06:50):
But where you are today, whatwould you say?
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Jeff, we've been talking about this from a long
time ago.
We've both been learning aboutactive waiting.
That has been a homework thatboth of us were not too fond of.
We were hoping that this wouldhave happened sooner.
We're like God.
Why is this taking so long?
But in the waiting, god hasbeen teaching us active waiting,
(07:16):
indeed, and also just thewisdom After the fact we go oh
yeah, god knew what he was doing.
After the fact we go oh yeah,god knew what he was doing.
And there were so many thingsthat I realized a year ago I was
not ready.
There was so much that happenedin the past year to prepare me
(07:36):
further for this transition andso I thought I was ready.
But looking back at a year ago,I go oh yeah, I was not ready
then.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, interesting.
Well, it's funny.
Marilyn has said to me overthat year that the church wasn't
ready.
In some ways, I wasn't readyeither, and she's very wise and
so I believe her.
Yeah, you know, god alwayswrites a better story, and so
(08:07):
what I thought was the best way,I'm now convinced no, this is
the better story, and that'sexciting too right that this
whole journey for me this35-year and for me it's really
more like 37-year journey isseeing that play out, that God
(08:31):
writes a better story and thatwhen I trust him and do the act
of waiting and take the nextstep and do the courageous thing
in faith that God is there, godshows up in ways that I could
not have envisioned until I tookthat step.
And so that's just a lessonthat I learn over and over and
(08:57):
experience over and over again.
And here it is again the thingthat we see throughout scripture
.
And here it is again.
Yeah, the thing that we seethroughout scripture, right, is
always looking back andremembering what God has done.
Yeah, right, it's alwayslooking back and saying,
remember when or remember howGod was at work in that time and
(09:18):
in that place, and I guess that, in a lot of ways, that is what
the role is going to be, andthen staying out of the way a
lot.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I think that's a really such a gift that you just
shared, jeff, that when I wasthinking about when we're in the
thick of a transition and Jamesyou mentioned it can feel like
chaos, but that's not always abad thing, but it can feel like
really intense, like we can onlysee what's right in front of us
, and to have that like someonewho is almost like a historian
saying, yeah, but look, god didthis over here before and
(09:59):
remember that time we've thisfelt really intense.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
God took us here and so yeah, we were talking before
we started recording this abouthow this role looks and how to
talk about it, and I've beenstruggling for words and images
and so forth and trying to bereally careful about saying what
(10:22):
it's not.
So I'm not going to be thepastor.
The image, james, that you werejust sharing about it's sort of
like the grandfather.
Yeah, yeah, right, right.
So I'm not a grandfather.
I don't have that firsthandexperience at this point, but I
know a lot of granddads.
(10:42):
A lot of my friends aregrandfathers, and watching them
and how they relate to theiradult son and then how they
relate to their grandchildren isprobably a pretty good image.
That in the best case scenario,the grandfather is a support
(11:03):
and then just hanging out withthe grandkids and just enjoying
being in their midst, and sothere's there's probably in that
, in that description, some ideaof what, what I guess, this
role of founding pastor willlook like.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
And I also want to just name how grateful I am that
you agreed to take on this role.
This is something that I askedyou if you'd be interested in
and ask the lead team, becauseit's not very common.
I know a lot of churches thatdon't do this Actually, most
churches do not do this but Ithink the story that God has
(11:42):
written for Hope was veryspecial.
You're the founding pastor.
You planted this church 35years ago.
You know this church betterthan anyone, and to have you as
a sounding board and again to bethat grandfather figure of the
church would be a blessing forus, right?
(12:02):
I know my parents love to spoilmy kids.
Sometimes I tell them to stop.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
They had enough sugar .
Right, but right.
But at the same time there's somuch wisdom.
I love being able to talk to mymom and my dad when I do hit a
roadblock, like, hey, what aresome ideas here?
Help me out.
But ultimately they also allowme to lead my family and serve
(12:31):
my family.
So I think that image you knowmetaphor is perfect.
But I thought that image bestencapsulates what founding
pastor might look like.
What do you think, jeff?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, and I think that's it's new and so I'm
kicking around and that guess,that means Marilyn's grandma.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
And it's not mine, by the way.
I don't remember exactly whereit was, but, jeff, you and I
have been—a lot of largechurches have been going through
transitions this year, so we'vejust been sharing news,
articles, videos and whenever wesee another transition
happening, and it was from oneof these videos that this pastor
described himself as I'm notgoing anywhere but I'm going to
(13:10):
be like a granddad, you have anew lead pastor.
He's going to be great, butI'll be around with some candy
in my pocket.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Causing a little trouble.
And really you know, causinggood trouble, causing a little
bit of good trouble.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
God's timing in all of this.
You know, just back to that ideathat you know you being ready
now, more than you were a yearago.
And likewise for me I am readyto transition out of the role of
lead pastor.
I am not leaving feeling like Ididn't accomplish what I wanted
to or that there was more Iwanted to do.
I really feel like this is theright time and so it's not
(13:54):
difficult for me to move out ofthis role and I'm excited for
you and where this is going totake this church, where you're
going to take this church, whereGod is going to be leading, and
to have the joy and theprivilege of kind of being in
(14:17):
the community as it's unfoldingis a tremendous blessing and a
gift and I just want to be likea part of the congregation.
I just, you know, I just amlooking forward to being in that
position of you know, cheeringit on, and if there's anything
(14:40):
I'm asked to do to support it to, you know to certainly do that
and but I don't really need tobe in any kind of leadership
role, I'm certainly do that anduh, but I don't really need to
to uh, be in any kind ofleadership role.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I'm I'm good with that, uh which I I can say as a
staff member.
Jeff, you know you shared thatwith us recently at a meeting
and you said, like guys, I'mgood, I'm ready.
And hearing someone inleadership who was leading, you
say that like is very um.
Hearing someone in leadershipwho was leading you say that
like is very um, like settled,like grounding, like to be like
okay, cool, he's good, so we canbe good, so we can be good for
(15:12):
the next thing, like um.
So I just appreciate your kindof openness in in sharing those
things.
Um.
Are there any more practicalthings that we should be sharing
with people who are listening,such as will you have an office?
You know all that kind oflittle stuff that maybe
someone's listening on a Sunday.
They've heard, but if they'reonly listening to the podcast,
they haven't heard.
(15:32):
I just don't know if there'sanything like that that we
should clear up for anybody.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Well, I won't have an office.
Carol has agreed to allow me toshare a cubicle, graciously
agreed.
Agreed, I'll have a home office, of course, and those times
that I'm in the building, youknow, there's generally a room I
can grab if I'm meeting withsomebody.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, one thing that comes to mind is a lot of people
are asking about staff changesspecifically.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Like is.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Carol still going to be around.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I asked her.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
She said she wants to stay.
I said thank God.
We all were like is Carol stillgoing to be around?
That's a good question.
I asked her.
She said she wants to stay.
I said thank God.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
We all were like yay.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Just leaving, no problem.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Carol.
That would be a problem I wasjoking with.
We were teasing Rick that Carolran out to get Aaron's full
disclosure.
She's still very much here.
But we were looking for her andDave went oh yeah, james is
starting and.
But we were looking for her andDave went oh yeah, james is
starting, and so she's going tobe done and we were like just
kidding, Just kidding, oh gosh,Please no.
I think I said please stay.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
I think that's what I said to her, but I'm very
excited and she's excited, she's, yeah, I'm very excited to be,
working with her too.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
One important one that comes to mind as the
communications person here iscontacting you, james right.
So, as lead pastor, your emailwill be, or it exists.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
It's working now, james, at meet hopeorg.
Great yeah, send me an email,let me know.
Say hi.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Flood the inbox.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
There you go yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And mine is founder at your eminence.
Nobody can spell it still, jeffgreat.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
well, as we start to wrap up, I was wondering in
moments like this I like torefer them as kind of like hinge
moments, so it's like the inbetween space between one thing
and another thing what would yousay helps you stay grounded or
stay rooted?
Is there any like scripture youreturn to or any practices that
have kept you?
James, you said earlier, likestability is not always what we
(17:43):
need, but kind of steady in ashifting moment, what we need,
but?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
kind of steady in a shifting moment.
I still remember how talkingwith you, Jeff, even with Rick
and Heather like why is thistaking so long?
Was a phrase we would say often.
But one thing that I've learnedis that God is not in a hurry,
even if we feel like we shouldbe, and so we can trust that God
(18:10):
is writing something, the rightstory, and so not to try to
skip the wilderness, because Ithink that is where we meet God,
that is the meeting place wherewe see God often.
So take your time.
God knows what he's doing.
God's not in a hurry, so youdon't have to be either.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
And the scripture that just recently came to me
and I shared it in a messagerecently Isaiah 40, 31, those
who wait upon the Lord shallrenew their strength.
They'll mount up on wings likeeagles, They'll run and not grow
weary.
They'll walk and not faint.
And so that act of waitingagain it's renewing that God is
(18:53):
not just letting us languishsomewhere, that, as we're
trusting him, he's renewing us,he's strengthening us and
preparing us for that which isto come.
So, yeah, that's what thisseason represents, I think, for
us.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
It's a season of renewal.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
And you kind of both already answered this question
in your answers.
But is there any otherencouragement you would offer to
someone in their own season ofchange in their life?
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I would say, listen to the this sermon series at
meet hopeorg.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Meet hopeorg slash on demand or YouTube at meet hope
church, because I think pastorJeff is has a tremendous
teaching this month.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
So even this past Sunday was Julie and I are still
talking about it, so I thinkthe teaching is something that I
think would really help equipanyone going through a
transition.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
That's very kind.
Yeah, I mean, don't miss this.
The other thing that there was atime, even in this most recent
transition so I'm a work inprogress still so it's not that
I've arrived on this activewaiting and trusting God in the
in-between time.
So there was a point where itwas clear that the timing that I
(20:15):
wanted for you to come, james,was not to be, and I was feeling
discouraged.
And we were in a lead teammeeting and members of the team
began to speak into that and sayyou know that same thing We've
seen God in the past and thatour timing hasn't always been
(20:37):
the right timing.
And so let's trust God now withthis timing.
And so I would say that as well, that God has not abandoned you
, that God is with you and foryou, that this time is valuable,
and so don't miss it.
That this time is valuable andso don't miss it, don't miss out
(20:59):
on the lessons that God wantsto teach you and the things that
God is doing in you in thisseason of transition.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Yeah, Like the chaos is not punishment but the chaos
is sacred yeah.
God is there, and God is goingto lead you through it.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
And you'll look back on that and thank God for it.
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I love that.
So thank you everyone everyonefor listening today and thank
you to pastor Jeff and pastorJames for being here and doing
this conversation with us.
We're excited for pastor James,for you to officially start as
lead pastor on July 1st andthere's going to be lots of
opportunities to meet you.
So we have meet and greets thatare listed on our events
calendar all through in July andAugust.
(21:49):
They're all on Wednesdayevenings and they're all
informal.
They're all in person exceptthere.
Ask that you RSVP so we canmake sure we have enough
refreshments for everyone that'sthere and it's meant to be
informal and fun and a way toget to know Pastor James and
hang out together.
And please share this podcastwith someone you know who is in
the Hope community, who youthink might benefit from hearing
(22:11):
about it, or also someone youknow who's just going through a
transition and maybe they can beencouraged by the words of
Pastor Jeff and Pastor Jamestoday.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So thank you for listening and we will see you
next time.
If you don't already, pleasejoin us for worship on Sundays
or on demand.
You can learn more atmeethopeorg or find us on
(22:39):
socials at meethopechurch.
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