July 14, 2025 • 28 mins
What does it look like to pursue a life of faith while also living with the very real, every day experience of chronic mental health difficulties? In this episode, Pastor Heather shares about a recent small group she led around Faith and Anxiety. We hope this episode encourages you in the ways faith can be an anchor when walking through mental struggle, instead of a barrier.
NOTES:
Resources listed:
"Try Softer" by Aundi Kolber
"Winning the War on Your Mind" by Craig Groeschel
"The Worry-Free Parent" by Sissy Goff
"Emotionally Healthy Spirituality" by Peter Scazzero
Sanctuary Mental Health (organization)
"On Getting Out of Bed" podcast by InterVarsity Press
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.online.church! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Enjoy what you heard? Be sure to rate us on Apple Podcasts and click the subscribe button so you don't miss new episodes every Monday!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Meet Hope Podcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Welcome to Hope.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hi everyone, welcome to the Meet Hope Podcast.
My name is Ashley Black and Iam excited to be here with you
today.
Today, we are talking about thetopic of faith and anxiety, and
with me I have Pastor Heather.
Hey Heather, hi everybody, howare you Good?
How are you doing Good?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
This will come out in about two weeks, but as you and
I are talking, you're gettingready to go on vacation.
We were just talking about itbefore I am.
Yes, so are you ready forvacation?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Am I ready for vacation?
I am as ready as I can bewithout that.
You know, last load of laundrythat has to be done and all the
last minute things to be packed,but emotionally and mentally
I'm very ready for vacation tobe packed but emotionally and
mentally I'm very ready forvacation.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
That's good, yeah, well, anybody who is listening
who is also getting ready forvacation.
We wish you well on your summeradventures.
Or if you're away from ussomewhere and you're listening,
we hope that you're having agreat summer.
One of the reasons I love thepodcast is because it's a great
way to stay connected with hope,no matter where you are if
you're on a cruise if you'reacross the world, you know, yeah
, anywhere you go.
Um, so I'm looking forward tothis conversation today.
(01:30):
Obviously, you and I both have,uh, uh, a passion a passion, a
heart, a heart for um theconversations around mental
health.
We both have a background inmental health.
I worked as a counselor beforeworking here at Hope.
You are getting your degree inmental health counseling, so
we've from time to time tried totouch on this as a topic on our
(01:54):
Meet Hope podcast, and so Iasked you today to come in,
because you recently justwrapped up a small group at Hope
.
And what was that small groupcalled?
It was called Faith and Anxiety.
And so what led you to run it asa group?
So what led you to run thisgroup, particularly right now?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So I think that it's just something that I see every
day, is people struggling withfaith and how that relates to
their anxiety right, not feelingless than or whatever.
So how does faith and anxietyfit together, and I felt like it
was the right time.
There's a lot of chaos goingaround the world and people are
feeling on edge to begin with,and so those who already have
chronic anxiety it's heightened.
So, being able to look at itfrom a Christian perspective and
(02:44):
a clinical mental healthperspective.
I felt like it was time.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, and just important that those two things
can work together and can existtogether Exactly.
And so let's do a little mentalhealth education before we get
started.
So for anybody who's listeningand for whom the topic of any
type of mental health is moreforeign, I like to do a little
like basics, right, so what?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
is anxiety.
So anxiety and it is thedefinition if you are looking at
the DSM, which is theDiagnostic Statistical Manual
for Mental Health, it gives usthe criteria by which we
diagnose, right.
So the definition is anxiety isdefined as a mental health
condition characterized byexcessive and persistent worry,
fear or apprehension thatinterferes with daily life and
(03:31):
functioning.
So it is more than everydaystress or worry.
It is a persistent state thatcan significantly impact a
person's ability to work, study,socialize and perform other
essential tasks.
So it is really.
It is excessive worry that willand fear that will carry across
(03:52):
multiple areas of one's life.
Right, so it's.
It is.
It might not just be fear aboutmy kids being okay, it might be
fear about my kids being okay,fear about a car crash happening
, fear about an airplanecrashing, fear about, like it's
this constant, persistent, right.
So that's what we callgeneralized anxiety disorder and
(04:12):
that is where it doesn't focuson one thing.
It is across your whole life,in all aspects.
And then there are morespecific as well.
So you know, you have panicdisorders, you have obsessive
compulsive disorders, you havesocial anxieties.
You have a whole bunch ofdifferent kinds of specific
anxiety disorders as well.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, and I think that that's the key thing to
remember is because I thinkanxiety is a word that is used a
lot, just in common language.
And there is just like anxiety.
I'm feeling anxious aboutsomething, but then there is
like anxiety as something thatis diagnosed that someone lives
with.
That is a prevalent, persistent, never goes away kind of
(04:52):
experience that interferes withany kind of functioning.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Exactly, and I think that you know, we all are going
to carry anxiety with us fromtime to time.
It's a normal part of life and,honestly, it serves a purpose,
right.
It heightens our awareness, itcauses us to be more on guard.
So, yeah, if you're going intoa strange location, anxiety can
really serve you well to keepyour eyes open, you see what's
around you, you're observant.
The problem is, for people withchronic anxiety, there is never
(05:17):
a come down from that.
Yeah, there's no relief.
Yeah, there's no relief, and soit is.
It doesn't matter, it isn'tserving its purpose, right?
It's our brain over functioningand and often it can stem from
a whole host of things, fromgenetics to childhood trauma to
you know you, there are lots ofreasons.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
This occurs in individuals, of our emotions,
kind of exist on like a, like aspectrum or like a on like a
roller coaster.
Yeah, um, and and so for us, ifyou're, if you're just
typically experiencing emotions,it's like right, you're gonna
feel mad, you're gonna feelanxious, you're gonna feel
(05:56):
frustrated or worried or or evenlike positive emotions, you're
gonna feel overjoyed, but likethey peak and then you kind of
come back to like a neutral andfor someone experiencing
something like this or anothermental health difficulty, it's
that you kind of your, your bodyand mind gets stuck there and
don't come down.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah, we talk about it and the reality is there can
be an unhealthy level of anxietyamongst people who don't have
chronic anxiety also, right.
So that key really is when itstops us from being able to live
our lives the way we wouldchoose to live our lives.
And one of the analogies we usea lot and I love it is anxiety
is going to come with you, right, whether it's chronic or
(06:34):
whether it's just normallifestyle anxiety.
It's fine.
It can sit in the passengerseat when it starts to drive,
it's a problem right, that's areally great metaphor.
Yeah, that, to me, is one of theways it's helpful to look at if
you're thinking about yourselflike is this anxiety?
Do I need to address this?
Do I need to talk to somebodyabout this?
What's going on?
Yeah, these are some of thethings we look at.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah.
So before we go any further, Ijust say that if any of that
feels familiar and you've nevertalked to anybody about it, I
would encourage you to do so assoon as possible.
You can always reach out toHeather or I to help you get
connected with someone, um, butthat it's really important that
if you recognize yourself inthis conversation and you're
feeling like you're in a placewhere you're stuck and are not
supported in figuring out how tolive your your best life, then
(07:17):
to to reach out.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, and there are a host of like physical symptoms
as well.
Right, it's that present.
So you may have somebody whogets up and throws up every
morning because their cortisollevels are so high and they are
so anxious and it presents intheir gut.
There are people who will getmigraines because of it.
There are people who will haveall kinds of aches and pains.
There are people who will shutdown, so there are a variety of
(07:41):
ways that it impacts our life.
It's not just sitting, beingafraid to leave your house.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
You know, there's a lot of ways that it can keep you
from living your best life.
I think that's what makesanxiety, in particular, a really
difficult thing for people tokind of like untangle in their
lives.
If it is a part of them isbecause we live in a high stress
culture.
We live in a culture thatrewards anxious that rewards um
anxious behavior Like it rewardsconstant production.
It rewards that like you're sotired because you worked so hard
(08:12):
all the time and you're alwaystrying to say 10 steps ahead and
like it.
it rewards the kind of similarlike response in our bodies that
also is can be so damaging tous.
So yeah, so, anyway.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
that being said, that's a lot of information, but
we wanted to make sure we kindof covered our bases.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
But you did a group on faith and anxiety, and so I
wanted to ask you when you thinkabout the world of our lives,
when we are practicing faith andthe mental health experience of
anxiety, there are ways thatthey bump into each other and
there is tension and there areways that they can work really
(08:58):
well together and be a strengthor a support.
So I thought we could talkabout both of those.
So let's start with how does ittend to maybe bump into each
other?
Where can it, almost like,become a difficult barrier to
break through?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
So I think a lot of it comes in misunderstanding,
right.
So I think that individuals whohaven't experienced chronic
anxiety or haven't lived withsomeone who experiences chronic
anxiety have difficultyunderstanding the depths of
chronic anxiety and theinability to control it with
just positive thinking orpraying it away, right.
(09:34):
And so we, as humans, often tryto avoid sitting in
uncomfortable emotions.
We want to push them down, wewant to ignore them, we want to
move through them.
So it is really easy forsomeone in a church to say you
just need to pray about it andit will get better, right, which
(09:54):
is not terrible advice, exceptwhen it is a clinical mental
health problem.
There are more pieces than thatand it requires addressing it as
a full picture.
So it's not that someone isn'tpraying the right way or isn't
praying hard enough or doesn'ttrust Jesus enough.
So it's not that someone isn'tpraying the right way or isn't
praying hard enough or doesn'ttrust Jesus enough, like that's
not it.
But because it's easier towrite someone off as well,
(10:16):
they're just not serious abouttheir faith, or they're just not
praying hard enough, or whatthat does is give them an out of
having to sit in the discomfortwith someone, which is exactly
what Jesus calls us to.
We are called to sit in thediscomfort with someone which is
exactly what Jesus calls us to.
We are called to sit in thediscomfort with each other and
encourage each other.
You know, weep with those whoweep and rejoice with those who
are rejoicing, and I thinksometimes we have a really hard
(10:39):
time with that.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, I mean you and I have talked on this podcast
before about phrases we use orbehaviors that we have, that
sometimes we they've become likecliche and we say them and we
don't mean them and that likeone of uh oh, you just need to
pray about it, like that it thatcan be tossed off as such a
casual thing, yeah, when itreally can be a very deep
(11:02):
spiritual dish discipline thatbrings peace to someone's lives
as they're walking throughsomething really difficult, um,
but but it's gotten caught inthat place of being kind of
tossed aside.
A magic eight ball right.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Like I'm just going to pray and it's going to be
better.
And the reality is prayer isthis incredibly intimate
exchange with God where we arechanged and we are better able
to hear his voice and learn hisvoice.
But when you have chronicmental health, that needs to be
paired with some concretestrategies as well, and God uses
(11:35):
those strategies.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah well, the other thing I was thinking about in
terms of that too, is that thereis this like false narrative,
often in our church culture, inchurch culture not here, yes, in
general church culture, inchurch culture not here, but in
church culture there's kind ofthis false narrative that if you
are following God the right way, everything is peaceful and
comfortable, all the time andlife is together.
(11:58):
And it's really funny to mebecause it is more, I would say,
like popular, like Americanfaith culture than what living
as a follower of Jesus wouldlook like, especially if you
read scripture and even if youjust read what the first
followers of Jesus experiencedafter his resurrection, starting
(12:20):
a new church experience.
It is not that we are promiseda super comfortable life.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
No, there's nothing actually that says that, but as
humans.
I think it's like oh, we feelgood, so that must be how it's
supposed to be, and that's, Ithink, where that gets stuck I
think we often misunderstandthings like the peace that
passes understanding yeah forcomfort in the sense of like I
have my, my air-conditionedhouse and I have my
(12:46):
air-conditioned car and I havemy air-conditioned car and I
have my you know, like thecreature comforts that peace and
comfort are not the same.
They are not the same.
And likewise you also getpeople who think that like the
joy of the Lord means thateverything in my life is good,
so I'm happy all the time.
That is not what the joy of theLord is.
The joy of the Lord is this deepunderstanding of God's goodness
even in the midst of the badright, and so I think that gets
(13:11):
distorted again, because it's alot easier for us as humans to
sit in the happy emotions thanit is to sit in the harder
emotions.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, I think it doesn't become a place you live
in all the time.
It's like a thread that's woventhrough you.
And that is always.
You always carry with you.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
That doesn't come from us right, right, it is Holy
Spirit bound, right, and that'sone of the things too, it is.
I have also heard a lot frompeople well, you're just going
to be a Christian counselor,right?
And my response is well, I am aChristian and I will counsel.
(13:49):
Yes, and there are people whowill come to me and faith is an
integral part of their lives.
And there are some beautifulways we integrate that in.
Because here's the thing.
You talk about cognitivebehavioral therapy.
You talk about rational emotivetherapy, behavioral therapy.
You talk about rational emotivetherapy, behavioral therapy.
You talk about narrativetherapy all of these different
(14:10):
types of therapy that are usedin modern counseling today.
They're in scripture.
They're laid out in scripturefor us.
The world just took a while tocatch on to it, right?
So you know, cbt is this ideaof taking every thought captive
for Christ, so recognizing ourthought patterns and refocusing
(14:30):
them onto Jesus.
The rational mode of behavioraltherapy, again, it's
recognizing that the emotion isnot necessarily the truth, that
we can be feeling one thing, butGod's truth is more than that
right.
That can be the joy that passesthe situation and the peace
that passes this situation, thatour emotions aren't truth.
(14:51):
They are indicators andimportant to listen to.
And narrative therapy this isthis idea that we tell ourselves
stories all the time in oursubconscious, from our past,
from what people have said to us, from what we believe about
ourselves and our worldperspective, and so narrative
therapy is really trulyrealigning ourself with what
Jesus tells us.
(15:13):
It's about rewriting things inlight of God's truth, which is
exactly what the renewing ofone's mind is right.
So we don't conform to the waysof the world, but we are
instead renewed, and thatrenewal comes when we start to
recognize the negative patternsthat we have been embracing and
the thought processes that wemaybe weren't even aware were
happening.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, yeah, as you're talking, it makes me think
about like, yeah, the thingsthat we kind of allow to like
rule our lives instead of maybewhere is, like, the best place
for our hearts and minds to land?
So you kind of already answeredthis and what you were talking
about with different models oftherapy.
But how else would you say thatour faith can, that partnering
(15:53):
with God through living withsomething like chronic anxiety
can be a gift and a blessing toour lives?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I think that people who live with chronic anxiety
are some of the strongest peopleI know.
The fight that it takes to gothrough their every day is more
than most of us will everexperience, or only experience
in our very worst of times.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
And so, um, so, that the faith that they have is such
a key component inunderstanding that this isn't
all there is and that when Iknow Jesus, I know there is more
, and that I can look to him tosee the more.
(16:36):
And I know that he can usethese challenges, these
heightened emotions, thesetrials, that he can use them in
my life and and help me use themto help others, Right.
So so I, um, I think faith.
I honestly don't know howpeople go through it without
(16:59):
faith.
Yeah, you can cause you.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I've I've been a witness to it too, in in in
personal people I know and inpeople I have worked with.
It is a hard-worked-for faiththat someone has when this is
their everyday experience.
And it might look different, andI always just want to learn
from that, because there is anunderstanding there that is.
(17:25):
That's so poignant.
Yeah, so coming out of thisgroup that you did because
that's kind of how ourconversation started so you did
a small group that ran fiveweeks, six weeks.
It was a six week study.
Okay, what would you say areyour biggest takeaways from the
group?
So if somebody's listening andthey were like I really wanted
to go to the group, I couldn'tsign up, or they're curious
(17:47):
about it, or maybe they want tocheck it out next time.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Yes, and we will run it again, probably in the fall
and probably again in the winter, so it's something that will
kind of recur.
I think one of the things thatthe feedback I got from the
people who went through thecourse was that was most helpful
was that there had some realconcrete strategies right, some
(18:10):
ways to combat the physicaleffects and the mental effects
of anxiety in our everyday lives.
But we were able to understandthem and why they work through
the light of scripture right.
So we understand why somecognitive behavior techniques
can work when we look at itthrough the lens of scripture,
(18:32):
which was around way beforecognitive behavioral therapy was
right, and so these areopportunities to learn some
techniques and you know thepeople who were in this group
are no strangers to chronicanxiety.
They were there because this issomething they live with right,
this is their day-to-day, so fora lot of these people, they
weren't new strategies, itwasn't new information to them,
(18:56):
but they hadn't looked at itthrough the lens of Jesus before
, and so that, I think, is whatthey found really eye-opening.
And, as we all know, we canunderstand something and know
something and it falls off ourradar.
We forget about it over time,and and so that being able to
sit in it with other people whosit in it as well, and to say,
(19:17):
oh gosh, that really, thatreally does work, and I haven't
been doing it, for whateverreason, I forgot about it, I,
you know, it drifted out of mymind, whatever, yeah.
So I think that was.
That was huge, I love.
One of the members of the groupsaid that was huge, I love.
One of the members of the groupsaid I know I feel more
peaceful and people around meare seeing it.
(19:38):
That's really great they'resaying I'm not as reactive as I
was, I'm not as snappy as I was,I'm not as quick to need it to
be my way.
I'm able to more easily let goof things.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Um, and I think they were really surprised that other
people saw it yeah and that'sthe beauty of of being in a
group, in a community, witharound others who understand you
, who you for whom you don'thave to explain your experience
to, and then there's alreadylike a a kind of trust.
I think there.
That then, when that those thatcommunity can reflect back to
(20:16):
you how they've seen you shiftor grow is is so meaningful.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, we also are able to do a lot of hey, we're
human and it's going to happenagain.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So what are you going to do when this group is not
here to solve anxiety?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
right, Like that's not, you're going to walk out of
here and you're going to feelgreat, and then in two weeks,
something is going to triggeryour anxiety and you're going to
be back, feel like you wereback where you were.
If we know that that's probablygoing to happen again, what can
we do when?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
it happens.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Let's have a plan.
Let's figure out what that is.
Who can you reach out to?
What techniques work reallywell for you that you want to
pull back out?
What scriptures can you read?
What books can you read, what?
What can you do to re-immerseyourself in that culture of um
God's peace and and techniques?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah, that's great, and so you're.
You said, you said you'reyou're hoping to run this group
again.
Yes, we want to run this groupagain?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Um, it most likely we are running the.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
the group did not want to end groups too, and I
understand that you know wedon't want to be done.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
We don't have to be done.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
So, um, what we're doing next is the book called
try softer um by Andy Kobler.
And uh, it is.
She is a Christian and an LPC,a licensed practicing clinician,
a counselor, and she is.
She deals beautifully with theidea of allowing God to do the
(21:44):
hard work.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yes, yeah, I had listened to her audio book on a
long drive back in the fall andI thought I had sent it to you,
or I suggested it to you and Iyeah, I particularly really
loved the approach of not.
I really, truly am passionateabout people knowing that they
don't have to muscle throughlife alone and it doesn't all
(22:07):
have to be so hard, and itdoesn't all have to be so hard
and that really, Jesus invitesus to.
That's what the phrase is trysofter.
We're invited to compassion.
We're invited to knowing that weare beloved by God that we are
created in God's image, that wedon't need to feel, we don't
(22:28):
need to carry around shame andguilt and and the weight of what
we all walk through every day,whether it be anxiety or
depression or, uh or justrelationship or things are hard
at work or economic struggle,like anything all kinds of
things that.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
So, whether it's situational or it is biological,
you know we all experience it.
It's in some way shape or form.
And again, that's part of whenwe talk about what's your
strategy when this comes, whenyou feel anxious again or when
there's a crisis again.
And a big part of that iscommunity.
(23:08):
It is being in community withothers in an authentic way, in a
way that you are able to beyourself and ask for help and
give help Right, and she deals alot with that as well and what
it looks like internally andthen what it looks like when we
engage externally.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, Well, I'm very excited to do that group this
summer.
I know you are too.
So if you're listening andyou're interested, as I
mentioned, you can find it atmeethopeorg slash today by
clicking on groups and you cansign up right there.
And I had asked you before westarted if there was any other
resources you would recommend.
So is it okay if I just I'lljust list these out?
(23:48):
Heather gave me a list of someother books and things that was
helpful in putting together theFaith and Anxiety curriculum.
So we said you know, there'sTry Software by Andy Kolber,
there's also Winning the War onyour Mind by Craig Groeschel,
the Worry-Free Parent by SissyGolf, and you said there's also
a podcast that they do.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
She has a podcast.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Okay, I love podcasts .
Same name, obviouslyEmotionally Healthy Spirituality
by Peter Cicero.
There is an organization calledSanctuary Mental Health.
We actually did a group in thefall or in the winter around
some of their curriculums.
Sanctuary Mental Health is anewer organization that is a
(24:29):
faith organization that's reallyreally walking through some of
figuring out some of this faithand mental health stuff and it's
great and they have podcastsand they have playlists, which I
love, and they have articlesand book suggestions.
So I would definitely suggestchecking them out.
And I just started a podcastyesterday.
It's called On Getting Out ofBed by InterVarsity Press and
(24:51):
it's pretty great.
It talks kind of what youtalked about about that daily
struggle for-.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
For those living in a state of chronic anxiety or
depression.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
So we will link all of them in our show notes, but I
just wanted to list them outhere for anybody listening.
So how would you like to wrapup today, Heather?
Is there anything else that youwould like?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
to say.
I think, for me, what I reallywant to say is grace, yeah,
right.
So grace is a huge piece ofthis, and I want to encourage
you if you have not struggledwith a mental health issue in
the past, if you've notstruggled with chronic anxiety
or depression, have grace,because it is an experience that
(25:35):
you don't understand and that'sokay, right.
But know that their experienceand their feelings are real for
those people who are goingthrough it, and it isn't just a
switch we can turn on or off,right when we're in the midst of
it.
So so have grace for thosearound you who are struggling
(25:57):
and those who may be strugglingand living with chronic anxiety
and depression.
Have grace for yourself, right.
Every day.
His mercies are new everymorning, every day is a new day,
and there is no failure,there's only learning, you know.
So if, if anxiety is drivingone day, that's okay, that's
okay.
We get to start all over againthe next day, and so you know
(26:17):
this whole process.
This is a life of looking likeJesus, right, this is a
lifestyle of becoming more likeJesus, and that doesn't happen
overnight, ever.
It's a process.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, I was thinking as you were talking and I was
trying to find there's a podcastsomewhere and I can't find it
but I will.
If I find it, I'll link it inthe show notes.
But I was thinking that howvaluable it is to listen to
other people talk aboutthemselves kind of firsthand.
Who, if you're trying, if youhave a loved one who is walking
through a mental healthdifficulty and you are like I
(26:53):
don't understand to listen toother people kind of talk about
their lived experiences can besuch a gift and a helpful thing,
and so there is one particularpodcast that I'm thinking about
where he interviews differentpeople and they talk about these
moments in their lives, and Ifound it to be a really great
gift.
So if I find it, I'll link it.
But if not, just search, lookout, you know, look around, look
(27:18):
for people's stories, and it'sa great way to just um, if
you're trying to learn, learnmore, and if you're walking
through something to feel likeyou're not alone.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, and, and don't hesitate to to reach out right,
yeah.
There.
Any one of us here on staffwould be happy to talk with you,
point you in the rightdirection, support you Again.
Life is not meant to be donealone.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, and that's exactly why we even do the
podcast, yep, because we hopethat you hear something here
that reminds you that you're notalone, yep.
So okay, heather.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here today.
Thank you, and I hope you havea nice and until next time.
This is the Meet Hope Podcast.
If you enjoyed what you werelistening to, please make sure
to subscribe so you don't miss anew episode.
(27:56):
We put out new episodes everyMonday and you can find us
anywhere.
You listen to podcasts and youcan follow Hope Church at Meet
Hope Church on social media, andso we hope that this finds you
well and we will see you nexttime.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we
continue our conversationsabout faith and hope.
Well, and we will see you nexttime.
Welcome to the Meet Hope Podcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Welcome to Hope.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hi everyone, welcome to the Meet Hope Podcast.
My name is Ashley Black and Iam excited to be here with you
today.
Today, we are talking about thetopic of faith and anxiety, and
with me I have Pastor Heather.
Hey Heather, hi everybody, howare you Good?
How are you doing Good?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
This will come out in about two weeks, but as you and
I are talking, you're gettingready to go on vacation.
We were just talking about itbefore I am.
Yes, so are you ready forvacation?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Am I ready for vacation?
I am as ready as I can bewithout that.
You know, last load of laundrythat has to be done and all the
last minute things to be packed,but emotionally and mentally
I'm very ready for vacation tobe packed but emotionally and
mentally I'm very ready forvacation.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
That's good, yeah, well, anybody who is listening
who is also getting ready forvacation.
We wish you well on your summeradventures.
Or if you're away from ussomewhere and you're listening,
we hope that you're having agreat summer.
One of the reasons I love thepodcast is because it's a great
way to stay connected with hope,no matter where you are if
you're on a cruise if you'reacross the world, you know, yeah
, anywhere you go.
Um, so I'm looking forward tothis conversation today.
(01:30):
Obviously, you and I both have,uh, uh, a passion a passion, a
heart, a heart for um theconversations around mental
health.
We both have a background inmental health.
I worked as a counselor beforeworking here at Hope.
You are getting your degree inmental health counseling, so
we've from time to time tried totouch on this as a topic on our
(01:54):
Meet Hope podcast, and so Iasked you today to come in,
because you recently justwrapped up a small group at Hope
.
And what was that small groupcalled?
It was called Faith and Anxiety.
And so what led you to run it asa group?
So what led you to run thisgroup, particularly right now?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So I think that it's just something that I see every
day, is people struggling withfaith and how that relates to
their anxiety right, not feelingless than or whatever.
So how does faith and anxietyfit together, and I felt like it
was the right time.
There's a lot of chaos goingaround the world and people are
feeling on edge to begin with,and so those who already have
chronic anxiety it's heightened.
So, being able to look at itfrom a Christian perspective and
(02:44):
a clinical mental healthperspective.
I felt like it was time.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, and just important that those two things
can work together and can existtogether Exactly.
And so let's do a little mentalhealth education before we get
started.
So for anybody who's listeningand for whom the topic of any
type of mental health is moreforeign, I like to do a little
like basics, right, so what?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
is anxiety.
So anxiety and it is thedefinition if you are looking at
the DSM, which is theDiagnostic Statistical Manual
for Mental Health, it gives usthe criteria by which we
diagnose, right.
So the definition is anxiety isdefined as a mental health
condition characterized byexcessive and persistent worry,
fear or apprehension thatinterferes with daily life and
(03:31):
functioning.
So it is more than everydaystress or worry.
It is a persistent state thatcan significantly impact a
person's ability to work, study,socialize and perform other
essential tasks.
So it is really.
It is excessive worry that willand fear that will carry across
(03:52):
multiple areas of one's life.
Right, so it's.
It is.
It might not just be fear aboutmy kids being okay, it might be
fear about my kids being okay,fear about a car crash happening
, fear about an airplanecrashing, fear about, like it's
this constant, persistent, right.
So that's what we callgeneralized anxiety disorder and
(04:12):
that is where it doesn't focuson one thing.
It is across your whole life,in all aspects.
And then there are morespecific as well.
So you know, you have panicdisorders, you have obsessive
compulsive disorders, you havesocial anxieties.
You have a whole bunch ofdifferent kinds of specific
anxiety disorders as well.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, and I think that that's the key thing to
remember is because I thinkanxiety is a word that is used a
lot, just in common language.
And there is just like anxiety.
I'm feeling anxious aboutsomething, but then there is
like anxiety as something thatis diagnosed that someone lives
with.
That is a prevalent, persistent, never goes away kind of
(04:52):
experience that interferes withany kind of functioning.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Exactly, and I think that you know, we all are going
to carry anxiety with us fromtime to time.
It's a normal part of life and,honestly, it serves a purpose,
right.
It heightens our awareness, itcauses us to be more on guard.
So, yeah, if you're going intoa strange location, anxiety can
really serve you well to keepyour eyes open, you see what's
around you, you're observant.
The problem is, for people withchronic anxiety, there is never
(05:17):
a come down from that.
Yeah, there's no relief.
Yeah, there's no relief, and soit is.
It doesn't matter, it isn'tserving its purpose, right?
It's our brain over functioningand and often it can stem from
a whole host of things, fromgenetics to childhood trauma to
you know you, there are lots ofreasons.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
This occurs in individuals, of our emotions,
kind of exist on like a, like aspectrum or like a on like a
roller coaster.
Yeah, um, and and so for us, ifyou're, if you're just
typically experiencing emotions,it's like right, you're gonna
feel mad, you're gonna feelanxious, you're gonna feel
(05:56):
frustrated or worried or or evenlike positive emotions, you're
gonna feel overjoyed, but likethey peak and then you kind of
come back to like a neutral andfor someone experiencing
something like this or anothermental health difficulty, it's
that you kind of your, your bodyand mind gets stuck there and
don't come down.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah, we talk about it and the reality is there can
be an unhealthy level of anxietyamongst people who don't have
chronic anxiety also, right.
So that key really is when itstops us from being able to live
our lives the way we wouldchoose to live our lives.
And one of the analogies we usea lot and I love it is anxiety
is going to come with you, right, whether it's chronic or
(06:34):
whether it's just normallifestyle anxiety.
It's fine.
It can sit in the passengerseat when it starts to drive,
it's a problem right, that's areally great metaphor.
Yeah, that, to me, is one of theways it's helpful to look at if
you're thinking about yourselflike is this anxiety?
Do I need to address this?
Do I need to talk to somebodyabout this?
What's going on?
Yeah, these are some of thethings we look at.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah.
So before we go any further, Ijust say that if any of that
feels familiar and you've nevertalked to anybody about it, I
would encourage you to do so assoon as possible.
You can always reach out toHeather or I to help you get
connected with someone, um, butthat it's really important that
if you recognize yourself inthis conversation and you're
feeling like you're in a placewhere you're stuck and are not
supported in figuring out how tolive your your best life, then
(07:17):
to to reach out.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, and there are a host of like physical symptoms
as well.
Right, it's that present.
So you may have somebody whogets up and throws up every
morning because their cortisollevels are so high and they are
so anxious and it presents intheir gut.
There are people who will getmigraines because of it.
There are people who will haveall kinds of aches and pains.
There are people who will shutdown, so there are a variety of
(07:41):
ways that it impacts our life.
It's not just sitting, beingafraid to leave your house.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
You know, there's a lot of ways that it can keep you
from living your best life.
I think that's what makesanxiety, in particular, a really
difficult thing for people tokind of like untangle in their
lives.
If it is a part of them isbecause we live in a high stress
culture.
We live in a culture thatrewards anxious that rewards um
anxious behavior Like it rewardsconstant production.
It rewards that like you're sotired because you worked so hard
(08:12):
all the time and you're alwaystrying to say 10 steps ahead and
like it.
it rewards the kind of similarlike response in our bodies that
also is can be so damaging tous.
So yeah, so, anyway.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
that being said, that's a lot of information, but
we wanted to make sure we kindof covered our bases.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
But you did a group on faith and anxiety, and so I
wanted to ask you when you thinkabout the world of our lives,
when we are practicing faith andthe mental health experience of
anxiety, there are ways thatthey bump into each other and
there is tension and there areways that they can work really
(08:58):
well together and be a strengthor a support.
So I thought we could talkabout both of those.
So let's start with how does ittend to maybe bump into each
other?
Where can it, almost like,become a difficult barrier to
break through?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
So I think a lot of it comes in misunderstanding,
right.
So I think that individuals whohaven't experienced chronic
anxiety or haven't lived withsomeone who experiences chronic
anxiety have difficultyunderstanding the depths of
chronic anxiety and theinability to control it with
just positive thinking orpraying it away, right.
(09:34):
And so we, as humans, often tryto avoid sitting in
uncomfortable emotions.
We want to push them down, wewant to ignore them, we want to
move through them.
So it is really easy forsomeone in a church to say you
just need to pray about it andit will get better, right, which
(09:54):
is not terrible advice, exceptwhen it is a clinical mental
health problem.
There are more pieces than thatand it requires addressing it as
a full picture.
So it's not that someone isn'tpraying the right way or isn't
praying hard enough or doesn'ttrust Jesus enough.
So it's not that someone isn'tpraying the right way or isn't
praying hard enough or doesn'ttrust Jesus enough, like that's
not it.
But because it's easier towrite someone off as well,
(10:16):
they're just not serious abouttheir faith, or they're just not
praying hard enough, or whatthat does is give them an out of
having to sit in the discomfortwith someone, which is exactly
what Jesus calls us to.
We are called to sit in thediscomfort with someone which is
exactly what Jesus calls us to.
We are called to sit in thediscomfort with each other and
encourage each other.
You know, weep with those whoweep and rejoice with those who
are rejoicing, and I thinksometimes we have a really hard
(10:39):
time with that.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, I mean you and I have talked on this podcast
before about phrases we use orbehaviors that we have, that
sometimes we they've become likecliche and we say them and we
don't mean them and that likeone of uh oh, you just need to
pray about it, like that it thatcan be tossed off as such a
casual thing, yeah, when itreally can be a very deep
(11:02):
spiritual dish discipline thatbrings peace to someone's lives
as they're walking throughsomething really difficult, um,
but but it's gotten caught inthat place of being kind of
tossed aside.
A magic eight ball right.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Like I'm just going to pray and it's going to be
better.
And the reality is prayer isthis incredibly intimate
exchange with God where we arechanged and we are better able
to hear his voice and learn hisvoice.
But when you have chronicmental health, that needs to be
paired with some concretestrategies as well, and God uses
(11:35):
those strategies.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah well, the other thing I was thinking about in
terms of that too, is that thereis this like false narrative,
often in our church culture, inchurch culture not here, yes, in
general church culture, inchurch culture not here, but in
church culture there's kind ofthis false narrative that if you
are following God the right way, everything is peaceful and
comfortable, all the time andlife is together.
(11:58):
And it's really funny to mebecause it is more, I would say,
like popular, like Americanfaith culture than what living
as a follower of Jesus wouldlook like, especially if you
read scripture and even if youjust read what the first
followers of Jesus experiencedafter his resurrection, starting
(12:20):
a new church experience.
It is not that we are promiseda super comfortable life.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
No, there's nothing actually that says that, but as
humans.
I think it's like oh, we feelgood, so that must be how it's
supposed to be, and that's, Ithink, where that gets stuck I
think we often misunderstandthings like the peace that
passes understanding yeah forcomfort in the sense of like I
have my, my air-conditionedhouse and I have my
(12:46):
air-conditioned car and I havemy air-conditioned car and I
have my you know, like thecreature comforts that peace and
comfort are not the same.
They are not the same.
And likewise you also getpeople who think that like the
joy of the Lord means thateverything in my life is good,
so I'm happy all the time.
That is not what the joy of theLord is.
The joy of the Lord is this deepunderstanding of God's goodness
even in the midst of the badright, and so I think that gets
(13:11):
distorted again, because it's alot easier for us as humans to
sit in the happy emotions thanit is to sit in the harder
emotions.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, I think it doesn't become a place you live
in all the time.
It's like a thread that's woventhrough you.
And that is always.
You always carry with you.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
That doesn't come from us right, right, it is Holy
Spirit bound, right, and that'sone of the things too, it is.
I have also heard a lot frompeople well, you're just going
to be a Christian counselor,right?
And my response is well, I am aChristian and I will counsel.
(13:49):
Yes, and there are people whowill come to me and faith is an
integral part of their lives.
And there are some beautifulways we integrate that in.
Because here's the thing.
You talk about cognitivebehavioral therapy.
You talk about rational emotivetherapy, behavioral therapy.
You talk about rational emotivetherapy, behavioral therapy.
You talk about narrativetherapy all of these different
(14:10):
types of therapy that are usedin modern counseling today.
They're in scripture.
They're laid out in scripturefor us.
The world just took a while tocatch on to it, right?
So you know, cbt is this ideaof taking every thought captive
for Christ, so recognizing ourthought patterns and refocusing
(14:30):
them onto Jesus.
The rational mode of behavioraltherapy, again, it's
recognizing that the emotion isnot necessarily the truth, that
we can be feeling one thing, butGod's truth is more than that
right.
That can be the joy that passesthe situation and the peace
that passes this situation, thatour emotions aren't truth.
(14:51):
They are indicators andimportant to listen to.
And narrative therapy this isthis idea that we tell ourselves
stories all the time in oursubconscious, from our past,
from what people have said to us, from what we believe about
ourselves and our worldperspective, and so narrative
therapy is really trulyrealigning ourself with what
Jesus tells us.
(15:13):
It's about rewriting things inlight of God's truth, which is
exactly what the renewing ofone's mind is right.
So we don't conform to the waysof the world, but we are
instead renewed, and thatrenewal comes when we start to
recognize the negative patternsthat we have been embracing and
the thought processes that wemaybe weren't even aware were
happening.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, yeah, as you're talking, it makes me think
about like, yeah, the thingsthat we kind of allow to like
rule our lives instead of maybewhere is, like, the best place
for our hearts and minds to land?
So you kind of already answeredthis and what you were talking
about with different models oftherapy.
But how else would you say thatour faith can, that partnering
(15:53):
with God through living withsomething like chronic anxiety
can be a gift and a blessing toour lives?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I think that people who live with chronic anxiety
are some of the strongest peopleI know.
The fight that it takes to gothrough their every day is more
than most of us will everexperience, or only experience
in our very worst of times.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
And so, um, so, that the faith that they have is such
a key component inunderstanding that this isn't
all there is and that when Iknow Jesus, I know there is more
, and that I can look to him tosee the more.
(16:36):
And I know that he can usethese challenges, these
heightened emotions, thesetrials, that he can use them in
my life and and help me use themto help others, Right.
So so I, um, I think faith.
I honestly don't know howpeople go through it without
(16:59):
faith.
Yeah, you can cause you.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I've I've been a witness to it too, in in in
personal people I know and inpeople I have worked with.
It is a hard-worked-for faiththat someone has when this is
their everyday experience.
And it might look different, andI always just want to learn
from that, because there is anunderstanding there that is.
(17:25):
That's so poignant.
Yeah, so coming out of thisgroup that you did because
that's kind of how ourconversation started so you did
a small group that ran fiveweeks, six weeks.
It was a six week study.
Okay, what would you say areyour biggest takeaways from the
group?
So if somebody's listening andthey were like I really wanted
to go to the group, I couldn'tsign up, or they're curious
(17:47):
about it, or maybe they want tocheck it out next time.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Yes, and we will run it again, probably in the fall
and probably again in the winter, so it's something that will
kind of recur.
I think one of the things thatthe feedback I got from the
people who went through thecourse was that was most helpful
was that there had some realconcrete strategies right, some
(18:10):
ways to combat the physicaleffects and the mental effects
of anxiety in our everyday lives.
But we were able to understandthem and why they work through
the light of scripture right.
So we understand why somecognitive behavior techniques
can work when we look at itthrough the lens of scripture,
(18:32):
which was around way beforecognitive behavioral therapy was
right, and so these areopportunities to learn some
techniques and you know thepeople who were in this group
are no strangers to chronicanxiety.
They were there because this issomething they live with right,
this is their day-to-day, so fora lot of these people, they
weren't new strategies, itwasn't new information to them,
(18:56):
but they hadn't looked at itthrough the lens of Jesus before
, and so that, I think, is whatthey found really eye-opening.
And, as we all know, we canunderstand something and know
something and it falls off ourradar.
We forget about it over time,and and so that being able to
sit in it with other people whosit in it as well, and to say,
(19:17):
oh gosh, that really, thatreally does work, and I haven't
been doing it, for whateverreason, I forgot about it, I,
you know, it drifted out of mymind, whatever, yeah.
So I think that was.
That was huge, I love.
One of the members of the groupsaid that was huge, I love.
One of the members of the groupsaid I know I feel more
peaceful and people around meare seeing it.
(19:38):
That's really great they'resaying I'm not as reactive as I
was, I'm not as snappy as I was,I'm not as quick to need it to
be my way.
I'm able to more easily let goof things.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Um, and I think they were really surprised that other
people saw it yeah and that'sthe beauty of of being in a
group, in a community, witharound others who understand you
, who you for whom you don'thave to explain your experience
to, and then there's alreadylike a a kind of trust.
I think there.
That then, when that those thatcommunity can reflect back to
(20:16):
you how they've seen you shiftor grow is is so meaningful.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, we also are able to do a lot of hey, we're
human and it's going to happenagain.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So what are you going to do when this group is not
here to solve anxiety?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
right, Like that's not, you're going to walk out of
here and you're going to feelgreat, and then in two weeks,
something is going to triggeryour anxiety and you're going to
be back, feel like you wereback where you were.
If we know that that's probablygoing to happen again, what can
we do when?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
it happens.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Let's have a plan.
Let's figure out what that is.
Who can you reach out to?
What techniques work reallywell for you that you want to
pull back out?
What scriptures can you read?
What books can you read, what?
What can you do to re-immerseyourself in that culture of um
God's peace and and techniques?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah, that's great, and so you're.
You said, you said you'reyou're hoping to run this group
again.
Yes, we want to run this groupagain?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Um, it most likely we are running the.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
the group did not want to end groups too, and I
understand that you know wedon't want to be done.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
We don't have to be done.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
So, um, what we're doing next is the book called
try softer um by Andy Kobler.
And uh, it is.
She is a Christian and an LPC,a licensed practicing clinician,
a counselor, and she is.
She deals beautifully with theidea of allowing God to do the
(21:44):
hard work.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yes, yeah, I had listened to her audio book on a
long drive back in the fall andI thought I had sent it to you,
or I suggested it to you and Iyeah, I particularly really
loved the approach of not.
I really, truly am passionateabout people knowing that they
don't have to muscle throughlife alone and it doesn't all
(22:07):
have to be so hard, and itdoesn't all have to be so hard
and that really, Jesus invitesus to.
That's what the phrase is trysofter.
We're invited to compassion.
We're invited to knowing that weare beloved by God that we are
created in God's image, that wedon't need to feel, we don't
(22:28):
need to carry around shame andguilt and and the weight of what
we all walk through every day,whether it be anxiety or
depression or, uh or justrelationship or things are hard
at work or economic struggle,like anything all kinds of
things that.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
So, whether it's situational or it is biological,
you know we all experience it.
It's in some way shape or form.
And again, that's part of whenwe talk about what's your
strategy when this comes, whenyou feel anxious again or when
there's a crisis again.
And a big part of that iscommunity.
(23:08):
It is being in community withothers in an authentic way, in a
way that you are able to beyourself and ask for help and
give help Right, and she deals alot with that as well and what
it looks like internally andthen what it looks like when we
engage externally.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, Well, I'm very excited to do that group this
summer.
I know you are too.
So if you're listening andyou're interested, as I
mentioned, you can find it atmeethopeorg slash today by
clicking on groups and you cansign up right there.
And I had asked you before westarted if there was any other
resources you would recommend.
So is it okay if I just I'lljust list these out?
(23:48):
Heather gave me a list of someother books and things that was
helpful in putting together theFaith and Anxiety curriculum.
So we said you know, there'sTry Software by Andy Kolber,
there's also Winning the War onyour Mind by Craig Groeschel,
the Worry-Free Parent by SissyGolf, and you said there's also
a podcast that they do.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
She has a podcast.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Okay, I love podcasts .
Same name, obviouslyEmotionally Healthy Spirituality
by Peter Cicero.
There is an organization calledSanctuary Mental Health.
We actually did a group in thefall or in the winter around
some of their curriculums.
Sanctuary Mental Health is anewer organization that is a
(24:29):
faith organization that's reallyreally walking through some of
figuring out some of this faithand mental health stuff and it's
great and they have podcastsand they have playlists, which I
love, and they have articlesand book suggestions.
So I would definitely suggestchecking them out.
And I just started a podcastyesterday.
It's called On Getting Out ofBed by InterVarsity Press and
(24:51):
it's pretty great.
It talks kind of what youtalked about about that daily
struggle for-.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
For those living in a state of chronic anxiety or
depression.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
So we will link all of them in our show notes, but I
just wanted to list them outhere for anybody listening.
So how would you like to wrapup today, Heather?
Is there anything else that youwould like?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
to say.
I think, for me, what I reallywant to say is grace, yeah,
right.
So grace is a huge piece ofthis, and I want to encourage
you if you have not struggledwith a mental health issue in
the past, if you've notstruggled with chronic anxiety
or depression, have grace,because it is an experience that
(25:35):
you don't understand and that'sokay, right.
But know that their experienceand their feelings are real for
those people who are goingthrough it, and it isn't just a
switch we can turn on or off,right when we're in the midst of
it.
So so have grace for thosearound you who are struggling
(25:57):
and those who may be strugglingand living with chronic anxiety
and depression.
Have grace for yourself, right.
Every day.
His mercies are new everymorning, every day is a new day,
and there is no failure,there's only learning, you know.
So if, if anxiety is drivingone day, that's okay, that's
okay.
We get to start all over againthe next day, and so you know
(26:17):
this whole process.
This is a life of looking likeJesus, right, this is a
lifestyle of becoming more likeJesus, and that doesn't happen
overnight, ever.
It's a process.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, I was thinking as you were talking and I was
trying to find there's a podcastsomewhere and I can't find it
but I will.
If I find it, I'll link it inthe show notes.
But I was thinking that howvaluable it is to listen to
other people talk aboutthemselves kind of firsthand.
Who, if you're trying, if youhave a loved one who is walking
through a mental healthdifficulty and you are like I
(26:53):
don't understand to listen toother people kind of talk about
their lived experiences can besuch a gift and a helpful thing,
and so there is one particularpodcast that I'm thinking about
where he interviews differentpeople and they talk about these
moments in their lives, and Ifound it to be a really great
gift.
So if I find it, I'll link it.
But if not, just search, lookout, you know, look around, look
(27:18):
for people's stories, and it'sa great way to just um, if
you're trying to learn, learnmore, and if you're walking
through something to feel likeyou're not alone.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, and, and don't hesitate to to reach out right,
yeah.
There.
Any one of us here on staffwould be happy to talk with you,
point you in the rightdirection, support you Again.
Life is not meant to be donealone.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, and that's exactly why we even do the
podcast, yep, because we hopethat you hear something here
that reminds you that you're notalone, yep.
So okay, heather.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here today.
Thank you, and I hope you havea nice and until next time.
This is the Meet Hope Podcast.
If you enjoyed what you werelistening to, please make sure
to subscribe so you don't miss anew episode.
(27:56):
We put out new episodes everyMonday and you can find us
anywhere.
You listen to podcasts and youcan follow Hope Church at Meet
Hope Church on social media, andso we hope that this finds you
well and we will see you nexttime.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we
continue our conversationsabout faith and hope.
Well, and we will see you nexttime.
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.